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Speaker 1: All Rosa jumenaz Ever wanted was to be a mom.

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Speaker 2: I read in an article somewhere about you that your

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Speaker 2: daughter has a rose tattoo for you.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, she does. To say that in the way

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Speaker 3: that you always represent me by Roses.

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Speaker 1: I first spoke to Rosa in twenty twenty for my

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Speaker 1: podcast Unjust and Unsolved. She was in prison at the time.

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Speaker 3: This call is being recorded and this subject to monitoring.

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Speaker 1: I was actually scheduled to meet with Rosa in person,

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Speaker 1: but because of COVID nineteen, all prisons were on lockdown.

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Speaker 1: She called me the day we were supposed to meet.

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Speaker 1: I'm so bombs. I really wanted to meet you in person.

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Speaker 3: They say, extend that day.

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Speaker 1: Are you staying safe?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, I was six the first week bomb Okay.

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Speaker 1: Now, Rosa was lucky in prison. COVID nineteen was devastating.

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Speaker 1: Incarcerated people died at over three times the rate of

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Speaker 1: the free population. So I have cho and Rosa was

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Speaker 1: at the highest risk. She was immunal, compromised from kidney failure.

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Speaker 1: When she first got to prison, Rosa got hurt working

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Speaker 1: in the fields picking vegetables and mowing grass. It was

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Speaker 1: lots of walking and physical labor, and one day she

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Speaker 1: felt a pain in her hip and went to the doctor.

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Speaker 3: It was telling that you looked with the doctors, they

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Speaker 3: tell you that you were lazy and that you didn't

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Speaker 3: want to work.

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Speaker 1: Rosa was prescribed in a proxy in and ivy profen

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Speaker 1: for the pain and sent back to work.

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Speaker 3: So before I got to work, I used to just

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Speaker 3: take one peel, then come up some work, take another

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Speaker 3: appeal because I'm already learning to sleep.

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Speaker 1: Years of doing this damaged her kidneys, and when I

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Speaker 1: first talked to her in twenty twenty, not only was

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Speaker 1: she in pain, but she was dying.

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Speaker 3: If not even vacim given to better my kidney. So

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Speaker 3: I asked him if she can give me a transpident.

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Speaker 3: Then she said no because she said, I don't want

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Speaker 3: to offend you or anything. But yet you as a

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Speaker 3: prisoner and everybody in prison, can I get a kidney

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Speaker 3: transfer or any kind of transman, because you are the

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Speaker 3: lower of a society.

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Speaker 1: In her late thirties, Rosa was facing down death from

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Speaker 1: a prison cell, but soon her life would change.

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Speaker 4: My name is Rosa Humanez and I was wrongly convicted

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Speaker 4: of injury to a child and murder. I was eighteen

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Speaker 4: years in.

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Speaker 1: Prison for love of for good. This is wrongful conviction

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Speaker 1: with Maggie Freeling today. Rosa Jimenez. Rosa Jimenez was born

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Speaker 1: in October nineteen eighty two and raised just outside of

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Speaker 1: Mexico City.

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Speaker 4: Little town is cooed at the pic. We were very

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Speaker 4: poor at that time when I was little.

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Speaker 1: Rosa's mom, Estella was single with five kids to take

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Speaker 1: care of.

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Speaker 4: She used to sell tamales in Mexico came to sign laws.

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Speaker 1: Estella says she worked every day for those sometimes until

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Speaker 1: two am, to make sure all her children stayed in

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Speaker 1: school and got their education.

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Speaker 5: Get out and.

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Speaker 1: Estella says she never had a holiday or weekend off

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Speaker 1: while her kids were young. But she didn't let her

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Speaker 1: kids drop out of school, and that's what matters. Estella

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Speaker 1: was a proud woman, just like Rosa.

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Speaker 4: No one is going to stop me. That's me.

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Speaker 1: Rosa went to college for business and tourism. She wanted

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Speaker 1: to own a restaurant with her mom.

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Speaker 4: And then of course I wouldn't have a bunch of

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Speaker 4: kids and get married and be happy. That was me

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Speaker 4: Rosa seventeen year old Rosa.

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Speaker 1: But Rosa found focusing on college was difficult when her

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Speaker 1: family was struggling with bills. She remembers coming home from

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Speaker 1: school one day looking for a snack.

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Speaker 4: I was hungry. You opened the refrigerator and you was

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Speaker 4: nothing there, and my mom was like, you're hungry, and

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Speaker 4: I was like, no, I was just going to get iced.

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Speaker 4: But then I realized in that moment, then my mom

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Speaker 4: couldn't do it no more by herself, so I decided

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Speaker 4: to come over here.

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Speaker 1: At seventeen, Rosa decided she was going to drop out

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Speaker 1: of school and come to the United States to work

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Speaker 1: and send money back to her family. How did your

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Speaker 1: mom feel about you coming to the United States.

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Speaker 4: Oh, she didn't want me to come. She begged me

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Speaker 4: and begged me to go to school. But you know,

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Speaker 4: when you're young, you like, no, I know what I'm

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Speaker 4: going to do. This is what I decided to do,

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Speaker 4: and I'm going to do it and no one is

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Speaker 4: going to stop you.

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Speaker 1: Do you regret coming here?

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Speaker 4: That's a hard question, yes and no.

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Speaker 1: Life in the United States would turn out to be

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Speaker 1: everything and nothing like Rosa had planned for. Rosa's stepfather

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Speaker 1: lived in the United States, so Rosa's plan was to

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Speaker 1: go to Austin Texas and get settled with him.

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Speaker 4: My stepfather's sister had two kids in Mexico. One was

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Speaker 4: seven and another one was six, and she asked me

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Speaker 4: if I can bring her kids, and if I bring them,

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Speaker 4: she was going to pay the coyote.

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Speaker 1: Rosa didn't have the means to come to the United

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Speaker 1: States legally, so she made the harrowing journey into the

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Speaker 1: country with a coyote a human smugglers reels. Estella says

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Speaker 1: she spent every day worried and restless. Is that binstino

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Speaker 1: praying that her daughter made it out alive. It's Estella

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Speaker 1: did not want her daughter to cross the border, but

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Speaker 1: Rosa took those children and did it anyway.

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Speaker 4: I brough those two kids and I pretend that they

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Speaker 4: were my kids. I was the only female, well, the

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Speaker 4: little girl and I were the only females. They were

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Speaker 4: like twenty five mens, dirty, and.

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Speaker 1: You're seventeen year old and I'm.

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Speaker 4: Seventeen year old with two kids. It was really scary.

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Speaker 1: She remembers. One instance, the whole group was staying in

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Speaker 1: one room for the night.

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Speaker 4: No one can lay down in the middle of the

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Speaker 4: night because we're standing up. It's crowded like the little

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Speaker 4: bathroom with thirty people, and.

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Speaker 1: She says a guy tried to touch her.

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Speaker 4: I tell the guy not too like, don't come too

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Speaker 4: close to me, and the other guys to start getting

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Speaker 4: mad because hey, you're gonna respect this girl, you know.

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Speaker 4: They tell him that if he comes close to me

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Speaker 4: again that they were going to beat him up.

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Speaker 1: Another man protected her and took it upon himself to

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Speaker 1: watch out for her and the kids the rest of

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Speaker 1: the trip.

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Speaker 4: It was an older guy. I don't even remember his

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Speaker 4: name that he was like, oh, like a father figure

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Speaker 4: kind of like he didn't like, was protecting me and

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Speaker 4: the kids. I never seen him up again, but you've.

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Speaker 1: Thought about him all these years.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Yeah, sometimes I feel like they angels, you know,

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Speaker 4: Like I mean that you show up to protect you.

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Speaker 1: And your guardian angel.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: When Rosa made it to the US, things didn't work

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Speaker 1: out living with her stepfather, so she wound up with

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Speaker 1: some friends she'd met at ESL school. She worked several jobs,

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Speaker 1: including at a food truck.

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Speaker 4: That was the worst experience ahead.

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Speaker 1: Like in a food truck, Yes, how come.

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Speaker 4: They're go and pick you up like at two o'clock

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Speaker 4: in the morning and you don't finish working by ten pm,

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Speaker 4: so you only have like a little gap to go

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Speaker 4: to sleep. And it was horrible. The payment was like,

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Speaker 4: I'm not even liing to you, like six dollars and

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Speaker 4: fifty cents back then.

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Speaker 1: But Rosa kept hustling and sending money back to her mom.

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Speaker 4: That was my whole purpose in here to help her.

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Speaker 1: And then Rosa met a boy, and her purpose changed.

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Speaker 4: At that moment. At that he was myself.

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Speaker 1: Eighteen year old feet well, like he.

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Speaker 4: Is the man that I wanted to be with the

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Speaker 4: rest of my life.

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Speaker 1: How long were you here before you got pregnant?

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Speaker 4: Now even a.

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Speaker 1: Year she was still a teenager and she was pregnant,

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Speaker 1: but she was thrilled. Nine months later, baby Brenda was born.

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Speaker 1: In two thousand and two, Rosa's dream was coming true.

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Speaker 1: If she couldn't get her degree, she wanted to be

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Speaker 1: a wife and a mom. A year later, Rosa was

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Speaker 1: pregnant again and had stopped working full time. She picked

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Speaker 1: up babysitting gigs here and there, and eventually she found

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Speaker 1: a steady gig caring for a friend's child a couple

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Speaker 1: times a week. Brian Gutierrez was almost two years old.

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Speaker 1: A few months older than Brenda, so it was perfect

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Speaker 1: for Rosa because she gat care for her daughter and Brian.

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Speaker 1: People who knew Rosa said that she loved that little

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Speaker 1: boy like her own. On the morning of January thirtieth,

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Speaker 1: two thousand and three, Brian's mom dropped him off with

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Speaker 1: Rosa on her way to work at nine am. He

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Speaker 1: and Brenda napped, and when they woke up, Rosa made

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Speaker 1: them snacks, beans, egg cheese, and pico de gayo. Rosa

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Speaker 1: says that both kids had colds that day and she

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Speaker 1: was constantly wiping their noses. She used a roll of

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Speaker 1: paper towels, and at some point she tossed the role

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Speaker 1: in the couch, thinking nothing of it. She then let

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Speaker 1: them watch TV and play while she made lunch. It

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Speaker 1: was afternoon and Rosa was cooking in the kitchen. She

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Speaker 1: says it'd been about ten minutes since she had last

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Speaker 1: checked on the kids. Then suddenly, Brian walks in slowly

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Speaker 1: with a hand on his throat. He appeared to be choking.

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Speaker 1: Rosa says she picked up Brian and rushed to the bathroom,

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Speaker 1: slapped him on the back, then tried to pull out

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Speaker 1: whatever was stuck in his throat, but nothing, so she

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Speaker 1: ran to a neighbor's apartment for help. When emergency responders arrived,

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Speaker 1: they were able to extract a wad of bloody paper

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Speaker 1: towels from Brian's throat. Later it was measured at two

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Speaker 1: and a half inches, almost the size of a tennis ball.

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Speaker 1: When they got Brian to the hospital, he was alive

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Speaker 1: but in critical condition, and police wanted to take Rosa

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Speaker 1: to the station for questioning.

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Speaker 4: I called Fidel and I tell him, hey, this happened,

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Speaker 4: and you need to come home because they want me

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Speaker 4: to go to the police's station to give a statement,

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Speaker 4: but you need to take care of Brenda.

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Speaker 1: At the station, detective Eric Dela Santos interviewed Rosa. He

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Speaker 1: wanted to know how such a large wad of paper

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Speaker 1: towels wound up down Brian's throat. In his mind, there

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Speaker 1: was no way Brian could have swallowed that himself. It

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Speaker 1: had to have been forced down. Della Santo's question Rosa

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Speaker 1: for five hours, insisting she had shoved the paper towels

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Speaker 1: down Brian's mouth. He said Rosa was mad that the

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Speaker 1: kids were playing with the paper towels, shredding them and

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Speaker 1: tossing them around the house. Rosa was terrified. Remember she

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Speaker 1: was a new immigrant. Was everything confusing for you? Did

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Speaker 1: you know you had rights?

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Speaker 4: I didn't know I have rights. I didn't know anything.

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Speaker 1: Rosa says she was unaware she didn't have to answer

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Speaker 1: Delo Santo's questions, or that she had a right to

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Speaker 1: a lawyer.

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Speaker 4: In Mexico is so corrupted. You know, you bribe the

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Speaker 4: police and you free, no matter why you do, you free.

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Speaker 4: So I'll come to this country and I don't have

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Speaker 4: knowledge or anything. The only thing I know is where

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Speaker 4: I came from. So I think maybe if I have money,

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Speaker 4: I can bribe the police, and you know, they let

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Speaker 4: me out. I don't know. So I didn't have no knowledge.

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Speaker 4: I don't have I didn't have anything. I didn't mean

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Speaker 4: speak English, nothing.

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Speaker 1: Dela Santo spoke Spanish, but Rosa says it was very

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Speaker 1: difficult for her to communicate with him. While the government

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Speaker 1: has to provide trained interpreters at trial, an interpreter isn't

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Speaker 1: constitutionally guaranteed during police questioning, so it was just Delo

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Speaker 1: Santos and Rosa and her head was spinning. Rosa was

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Speaker 1: worried about Brian, and then she thought about Brenda. She

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Speaker 1: begged Dela Santos to let her use the phone to

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Speaker 1: call Fidel.

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Speaker 4: When I call, he said, the CPS took Brenda like

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Speaker 4: child Protective services, and I was just freaking out because

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Speaker 4: I didn't know what child protective Services was or anything.

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Speaker 4: So I was freaking out.

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Speaker 1: When I first spoke with Rosa, she explained that desperation

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Speaker 1: to me.

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Speaker 3: I was like, like me, I can have Blenda back

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Speaker 3: if I said whatever they wanted to. You wanted to

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Speaker 3: say whatever you've been saying. Man, I say it, you know,

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Speaker 3: but just let me try Branda back.

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Speaker 1: Rosa eventually asked Dela Santos what would happen if she

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Speaker 1: told him she did it, and he told her that

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Speaker 1: she'd be able to go home and see her daughter,

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Speaker 1: and after hours of questioning, Rosa says she considered just

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Speaker 1: saying that she did it. Maybe when she tried to

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Speaker 1: pull the paper towels out, she accidentally shoved them in further,

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Speaker 1: but she didn't actually admit to hurting Brian and wouldn't

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Speaker 1: speak further until she saw Brenda. So Dela Santos drove

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Speaker 1: Rosa home while other officers prepared a warrant, and a

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Speaker 1: few hours later, in the early morning hours of January

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Speaker 1: thirty first, Rosa was arrested for injury to a child.

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Speaker 1: Rosa sat in jail for months awaiting trial, pregnant with

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Speaker 1: her second child, and on April eighteenth, two thousand and three,

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Speaker 1: she started feeling contra fractions.

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Speaker 4: I remember going to the hospital from the jail, and

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Speaker 4: every time you had to go to the hospital, you

254
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Speaker 4: had to go be in shackles.

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Speaker 1: This is standard practice while in DJ custody, shackling prisoners

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Speaker 1: who are giving birth with an officer assigned to watch

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Speaker 1: over them.

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Speaker 4: Is that police officer, you know, just watching you give?

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Speaker 4: Sure you're not gonna escape what you are giving? Birned, Like,

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Speaker 4: how can that happen? I mean, you and a lot

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Speaker 4: of pain, you have contractions, you're pushing. How can you

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Speaker 4: gonna start pushing and then run? I don't I don't

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Speaker 4: see that possible. But it was very It was very sad.

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Speaker 4: I remember that night. I have a female officer and

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Speaker 4: she had to be there the whole time, and I

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Speaker 4: was having like contractions, but I was not going in labor.

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Speaker 4: And I was like literally praying to go on labor

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Speaker 4: because I didn't know who was the other officer was

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Speaker 4: gonna be and I didn't want it to be a male.

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Speaker 4: And I'm you know, with your legs all open and shackles,

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Speaker 4: and like I was scared. I was scared. I was

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Speaker 4: really scared.

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Speaker 1: After a few hours of labor, her son, Aiden was born.

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Speaker 1: Did they let you hold him?

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Speaker 4: No?

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Speaker 1: You didn't even get to hold your son.

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Speaker 3: No.

278
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Speaker 4: I had to beg later on when I went to

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Speaker 4: the room, I had to beg the nurse to let

280
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Speaker 4: me hold my kid. Because of the nature of the crime.

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Speaker 4: They didn't let me get close to Aiden.

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Speaker 1: Because Rosa was charged with a crime against a child,

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Speaker 1: she wasn't allowed near anyone under eighteen, not even her

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Speaker 1: newborn son. However, in a moment of grace or sympathy,

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Speaker 1: once they were alone, the nurse let Rosa hold Aiden

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00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:07,440
Speaker 1: for a little while. But as one baby came into

287
00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:11,800
Speaker 1: the world, another left. Brian Gutierrez succumbed to his injuries

288
00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:15,119
Speaker 1: and died just over a week after Aiden was born.

289
00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:20,320
Speaker 1: Ros's charges were upgraded to felony murder two years later.

290
00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:23,280
Speaker 1: Rosa went to trial in August two thousand and five.

291
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Speaker 1: She was tried in Travis County Criminal District Court by

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Speaker 1: Gary Cobb and Alison Wetzel.

293
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Speaker 4: This trial is.

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00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:33,680
Speaker 6: About something that happened to a little boy named Brian

295
00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:35,960
Speaker 6: on January thirty of two thousand and three.

296
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Speaker 4: He was twenty.

297
00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:40,920
Speaker 1: One months old. He lived in North Austin with his.

298
00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:46,000
Speaker 6: Mother, Victoria, and with her family, and he was a

299
00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:50,600
Speaker 6: healthy baby. He was a happy baby, and his family.

300
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Speaker 1: Loved him very very much. Doctors and first responders who

301
00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:57,400
Speaker 1: took the stand for the prosecution all said it would

302
00:17:57,400 --> 00:17:59,960
Speaker 1: have been impossible for Brian to have shoved the paper

303
00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:03,080
Speaker 1: towels down his throat on his own. His gag reflex

304
00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:06,360
Speaker 1: would have pushed them out. Someone had to hold him

305
00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:10,520
Speaker 1: down and push the wat of paper towels past the reflex.

306
00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:15,760
Speaker 1: How much do you think racism played into Rose's case?

307
00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:20,679
Speaker 7: Racism played a huge role in Rosa's case. She is

308
00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:25,439
Speaker 7: one of other people that we know about who women

309
00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:29,879
Speaker 7: of color in this jurisdiction at this time period, who

310
00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:34,320
Speaker 7: ended up being prosecuted in cases where children were injured

311
00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:35,320
Speaker 7: in accidents.

312
00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:38,639
Speaker 1: Vanessa Pupkin is the director of Special Litigation at The

313
00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:39,640
Speaker 1: Innocence Project.

314
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Speaker 7: It's something that we see throughout the country when it

315
00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:48,560
Speaker 7: comes to children who die or are injured and if

316
00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:51,919
Speaker 7: the parents are people of color, there's a rush to

317
00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:55,760
Speaker 7: call this a homicide or some type of abuse.

318
00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:58,399
Speaker 1: And it's hard to argue when you hear Wetzel in

319
00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:02,120
Speaker 1: her own words at trial. Here she is questioning Detective

320
00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:05,760
Speaker 1: Delo Santo's on the stand about his interrogation with Rosa.

321
00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:14,040
Speaker 6: And despite being from Mexico, she's very intelligent, wouldn't you agree?

322
00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:15,440
Speaker 4: I think she's a smart lady.

323
00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:20,800
Speaker 6: And did it appear to you that she manipulated you

324
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Speaker 6: at the end of the interview by getting you to

325
00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:26,280
Speaker 6: bring her daughter to you?

326
00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:28,480
Speaker 4: You know, I'm gonna say yes. I don't think she

327
00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:31,320
Speaker 4: ever intended to tell me if she.

328
00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:37,680
Speaker 1: Did this, that she did it. In Rosa's defense, her attorney,

329
00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:41,400
Speaker 1: Leonard Martinez, called multiple witnesses who said Rosa was a

330
00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:44,800
Speaker 1: peaceful person who was not quick to anger. But that

331
00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:46,040
Speaker 1: was pretty much it.

332
00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:50,800
Speaker 7: She just had woefully an adequate counsel. Her trial counsel

333
00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:55,960
Speaker 7: only consulted with one expert. That expert had no experience

334
00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:58,800
Speaker 7: in pediatric pathology.

335
00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:02,359
Speaker 1: In fact, none of the experts that trial did not

336
00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:06,480
Speaker 1: even the prosecutions, but the expert hired by Rosa's lawyer

337
00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:08,920
Speaker 1: was particularly bad.

338
00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:14,200
Speaker 7: He had not done any publishing except for one article,

339
00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:17,960
Speaker 7: which was how to turn a murder into an accident?

340
00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:20,680
Speaker 7: So could you imagine when that came out in front

341
00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:24,040
Speaker 7: of the jury what that did to his credibility.

342
00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:26,359
Speaker 4: It was a disaster.

343
00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:30,080
Speaker 1: Rosa sat through a week long trial believing that, even

344
00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:32,680
Speaker 1: though she was confused by the proceedings and what people

345
00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:35,600
Speaker 1: were saying, everything was going to be okay.

346
00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:40,760
Speaker 4: I believe in the United States system. I believe the yeah,

347
00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:43,600
Speaker 4: we're not corrupted. I believe the yeah, we're going to

348
00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:46,040
Speaker 4: search the truth and the truth we're going to set

349
00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:46,440
Speaker 4: me free.

350
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:51,200
Speaker 1: But on August thirty first, two thousand and five, Rosa

351
00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:54,439
Speaker 1: was convicted of injury to a child and felony murder.

352
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Speaker 1: She was sentenced to ninety nine years in prison.

353
00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:00,840
Speaker 2: I remember during your trial you were getting all this

354
00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:02,200
Speaker 2: information through a translator.

355
00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:03,640
Speaker 4: Yes, correct.

356
00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:06,560
Speaker 2: What was that like when you found out you're convicted?

357
00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:08,880
Speaker 2: Did you understand at that moment what was happening?

358
00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:17,320
Speaker 4: No? Two, I mean she's saying that they convict me

359
00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:21,800
Speaker 4: to ninety nine years in prison, But it was like, no,

360
00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:22,800
Speaker 4: it cannot.

361
00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:31,480
Speaker 5: Be lestas busy a level that act. Where have you seen.

362
00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:37,280
Speaker 1: Estella was there watching her daughter get tried and sentenced,

363
00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:40,720
Speaker 1: and she didn't understand what was happening either. She says,

364
00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:44,120
Speaker 1: she asked Rosa's lawyer to please translate to tell her

365
00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:45,640
Speaker 1: what was going on.

366
00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:47,879
Speaker 5: It is.

367
00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:56,440
Speaker 1: That was the last time she saw her daughter in person,

368
00:21:56,800 --> 00:22:00,000
Speaker 1: and Estella says, there are simply no words to describe

369
00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:11,800
Speaker 1: that kind of pain. At twenty two years old, everything

370
00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:14,240
Speaker 1: Rosa had ever dreamed of was gone.

371
00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:18,760
Speaker 7: You know, here's so many people these days talk about like, oh,

372
00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:20,440
Speaker 7: their career, what they want to be, and she wanted

373
00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:20,960
Speaker 7: to be a mother.

374
00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:25,440
Speaker 4: That was her thing that she wanted very much.

375
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:29,200
Speaker 1: But now her kids were being taken from her. Fidel

376
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:32,119
Speaker 1: was young and had no means of caring for them.

377
00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:36,080
Speaker 1: In fact, he disappeared from Rosa's life shortly after her conviction.

378
00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:39,560
Speaker 1: So Rosa's children were put in foster care while her

379
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:43,879
Speaker 1: mom fought for custody from Mexico. Brenda and Aiden were

380
00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:47,199
Speaker 1: placed with a family who will call the Smiths. At first,

381
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:49,560
Speaker 1: Rosa says, the Smiths would bring her kids to see

382
00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:50,560
Speaker 1: her in prison.

383
00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:54,520
Speaker 4: But then they start asking me for an adoption, to

384
00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:58,040
Speaker 4: sign papers, and I tell them no. So then that

385
00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:02,239
Speaker 4: we sit, says starts getting you know, far away and

386
00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:02,800
Speaker 4: far away.

387
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:06,440
Speaker 1: Rosa felt like she was being manipulated, like.

388
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:11,680
Speaker 4: If you give them to adoption to us, then you're

389
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:14,159
Speaker 4: going to be able to see them more often. But

390
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:16,240
Speaker 4: if you don't, then you're not going to be able

391
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:21,000
Speaker 4: to see them. And then part of me was really sad,

392
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:23,800
Speaker 4: and part of me was like, I'm not going to

393
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:27,760
Speaker 4: give my kids to adoption. They're my kids, So she didn't.

394
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:31,560
Speaker 1: Did you think you were ever going to get out

395
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:33,159
Speaker 1: to be able to be a mom to them? Was

396
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:34,600
Speaker 1: that part of your decision making?

397
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:44,439
Speaker 4: Honestly? I mean when you in prison, Maggie, like you

398
00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:48,439
Speaker 4: believe in God, you have this strong faith and you

399
00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:52,960
Speaker 4: believe because you don't have nothing else. They strip you

400
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:56,679
Speaker 4: from your kids, your family, everything that you dream of.

401
00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:59,439
Speaker 4: You don't have no more. So the only thing that

402
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:03,320
Speaker 4: you have is God. That's it. So you hold into

403
00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:07,359
Speaker 4: with you old God with everything you had in you

404
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:12,359
Speaker 4: because you don't have nothing else. So part of me

405
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:16,639
Speaker 4: believed that I was going to go home, but the

406
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:21,200
Speaker 4: realistic part of me was telling me, you're not one.

407
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:24,440
Speaker 4: You don't have no money, you don't have no support,

408
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:27,080
Speaker 4: you don't have no family here, so how are you

409
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:28,879
Speaker 4: gonna get out you're not.

410
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:33,120
Speaker 1: Brenda and Adam were raised by the Smiths, and as

411
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:36,240
Speaker 1: the years passed, Rosa got to see them less and less.

412
00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:39,000
Speaker 1: She tried to be a mom from prison, but it

413
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:43,760
Speaker 1: was fruitless. They became strangers, both races.

414
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:46,520
Speaker 5: To pay.

415
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:52,840
Speaker 1: Estella says she tried to get a visa twice to

416
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:56,040
Speaker 1: come here and visit Rosa, but both times it was.

417
00:24:56,000 --> 00:25:04,240
Speaker 5: Denied let very soon, but for this week.

418
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:08,760
Speaker 1: Official told her it was because Rosa was in trouble

419
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:09,399
Speaker 1: with the state.

420
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:15,199
Speaker 5: Almost for.

421
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:24,119
Speaker 1: Rosa was only allowed a handful of very short international calls.

422
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:27,960
Speaker 1: So for eighteen years they stayed in touch through letters.

423
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:30,840
Speaker 5: Scat.

424
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:37,200
Speaker 4: Yes, through letters, but it's like so hard, like I

425
00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:39,720
Speaker 4: s in a letter and she will get that letter,

426
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:43,439
Speaker 4: like in fifteen days, twenty days so and then for

427
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 4: her to write me. Sometimes the letter get lost, so

428
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:50,760
Speaker 4: it was not a good communication.

429
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 1: In one of those letters, Rosa had to tell her

430
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:58,800
Speaker 1: mom she had kidney failure and the outlook was not good.

431
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:01,720
Speaker 1: When I first spoke to Rosa, she was waiting to

432
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:02,919
Speaker 1: start dialysis.

433
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:08,440
Speaker 3: The only thing they for me is through and then

434
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:15,360
Speaker 3: one minute left. Eventually, when my kidneys dropped m they

435
00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 3: had to pick another unit. When they do dialysis and

436
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:22,159
Speaker 3: then after that that will be it. He said, a

437
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 3: person can only live with dialysis of seen years.

438
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:30,600
Speaker 1: The clock was ticking for Rosa, but fortunately the story

439
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:33,879
Speaker 1: of a young Mexican immigrant wronged by the American legal

440
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:35,879
Speaker 1: system was making headlines.

441
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:41,560
Speaker 7: Rosa had the support of the Mexican government. She had

442
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 7: been working with the consulate.

443
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 1: Since trial Vanessa Potkin. Again, they had.

444
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:50,639
Speaker 7: Stood by her for close to two decades, trying to

445
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:55,639
Speaker 7: get counsel, hiring lawyers, and were very supportive throughout the

446
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 7: entire process.

447
00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:00,640
Speaker 1: An attorney named Bryce Bingett was hired by the Mexican

448
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:04,040
Speaker 1: Consulate to work on Rosa's case. In twenty eighteen, he

449
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:06,679
Speaker 1: took a job with the Innocence Project and brought her

450
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:07,440
Speaker 1: case with him.

451
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:11,960
Speaker 7: At that point, there had been already some medical evidence

452
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 7: developed to suggest that Rosa had been convicted of something

453
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:19,200
Speaker 7: that was an accidental choking.

454
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:22,160
Speaker 1: Over the years, her case has been looked at by

455
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 1: multiple judges.

456
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:27,720
Speaker 7: Five judges at different points that had reviewed Rosa's case

457
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:31,919
Speaker 7: and said she's likely innocent, this is a miscarriage of justice.

458
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:35,359
Speaker 1: One of those judges, Charlie Baird, wrote that Rosa's trial

459
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:40,919
Speaker 1: was quote fatally affected by constitutional error. I remember that

460
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 1: expert Rosa's defense attorney used. Judge Baird said that in

461
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:48,920
Speaker 1: his decades long career, his court had quote never seen

462
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:53,639
Speaker 1: such unprofessional and biased conduct from any witness, much less

463
00:27:53,760 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 1: from a purported expert. Still, Rosa remained in prison In Texas.

464
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 1: The Court of Criminal Appeals has final say on innocence claims,

465
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 1: and it refused to give Rosa a new trial. It

466
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 1: was relentless. Then finally, in twenty twenty, she was granted relief.

467
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:16,120
Speaker 7: So she had a federal court review her case and

468
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 7: say her trial lawyer was deficient. The trial council never

469
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:26,960
Speaker 7: consulted with any expert that could have meaningfully told the

470
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 7: jury what.

471
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:31,240
Speaker 1: Could have happened in this case. None of the witnesses

472
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:34,120
Speaker 1: called were experts in pediatric airways.

473
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 7: It would be like having a problem with your heart

474
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:42,480
Speaker 7: and going to a foot doctor. Both doctors, but you

475
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 7: can't get your opinion from the foot doctor.

476
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 1: So Rosa was granted a new trial, but again someone

477
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 1: got in the way. The Texas Attorney General's office appealed

478
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 1: the decision, a process that could have taken years. Years

479
00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 1: Rosa likely didn't have as a person with kidney failed.

480
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:05,480
Speaker 1: You're in a pandemic, so how did you get her out?

481
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 7: We saw an opportunity at that point to say, okay,

482
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:17,240
Speaker 7: let's figure out who are the top pediatric NT doctors

483
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 7: in the country, perhaps the world, and let's submit Rosa's

484
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 7: case to them. Let's say, here's this incident, this is

485
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 7: what happened with the child. Is this intentional? Could this

486
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 7: be an accident? What happened here? And all of these

487
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 7: doctors had the same reaction. They were like, wait, this

488
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:41,760
Speaker 7: woman's in prison, she was convicted. They couldn't believe it.

489
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 7: This was an accident, and the idea that this could

490
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:50,240
Speaker 7: have happened intentionally is so far fetched.

491
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 1: They said. The gag reflex would actually have pulled the

492
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 1: wad further into Brian's throat instead of expelling it, like

493
00:29:57,440 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 1: experts testified to at trial.

494
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 7: I completely turned on its head the evidence that had

495
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 7: been used at her trial and exposed that that evidence

496
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 7: had been false.

497
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 1: Following an evidentiary hearing, the trial court recommended that Rosa's

498
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 1: conviction be vacated, and on January twenty seventh, twenty twenty one,

499
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 1: she was released on bond, but her troubles were far

500
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 1: from over. Rosa had been released from prison, but she

501
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:28,560
Speaker 1: wasn't free.

502
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 7: The issue was that because of her immigration status while

503
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 7: she was in prison, a deportation order had been lodged

504
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 7: against her. And so if somebody has any type of

505
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:46,560
Speaker 7: hold by ICE, when their conviction is vacated, ICE is

506
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 7: notified and ICE has two days forty eight hours to

507
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 7: come pick up that person and take them into ICE attention.

508
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 4: And in my mind, I was like, they leave me

509
00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 4: in Mexico, like great coming back, But part of me

510
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:07,080
Speaker 4: was scared because I don't know Mexico anymore. You know,

511
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 4: I left when I was seventeen. Now I'm almost forty.

512
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:14,760
Speaker 4: And if they leave me at the border with no money, nothing,

513
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 4: how I'm gonna call on mom. How I'm gonna get

514
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 4: all the way to Mexico.

515
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:24,240
Speaker 1: Meanwhile, Vanessa was in New York frantic.

516
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 7: We had an immigration lawyer trying to see if they

517
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 7: could you get in touch with ICE. We're calling, We're like,

518
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 7: is there any update on Rosa's situation.

519
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 1: She learns that Immigration was coming to pick up Rosa

520
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:38,080
Speaker 1: in Texas that day.

521
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 7: So I decided, I was in New York, I'm gonna

522
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 7: get on a plane and fly to Texas.

523
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,360
Speaker 1: Vanessa was getting rapid updates.

524
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 7: And then the next email we get is they've decided

525
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 7: to expedite deportation.

526
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 1: Then she got an email that Rosa had been picked up.

527
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 7: So by the time I land in Texas, Rosa was

528
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:05,240
Speaker 7: in a vehicle and we're just told that she's going

529
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 7: to be deported. It really did feel like being run

530
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 7: over by a mac truck.

531
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 4: And we are like, how are we.

532
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 7: Going to push this truck off of us and get

533
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 7: from underneath this? If she gets deported, she's never coming back.

534
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 7: That's just like the end of it. She wants to

535
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 7: see her children. Her children are waiting for her to

536
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 7: come out. We are just like in our minds having

537
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 7: this vision that she is in a car and like

538
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:33,720
Speaker 7: being driven to go across the border.

539
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:37,720
Speaker 1: As we're speaking, Rosa was in a van with two

540
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 1: ICE agents.

541
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 4: I see them talking among themselves, and they keep looking

542
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:46,960
Speaker 4: back at me, talking among themselves and looking at me.

543
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:52,360
Speaker 4: Why can I hear anything? They sing, and they started

544
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:57,360
Speaker 4: getting phone calls and phone calls and phone calls, And

545
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 4: in my soul, my car, you something happened, like not bad,

546
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 4: but something happened.

547
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 1: Vanessa was getting out from under the mac truck.

548
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:12,120
Speaker 7: And I think it was ultimately the intervention of the

549
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 7: Mexican government reaching out, because next thing you know, we

550
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 7: were informed, oh, you can go get Rosa in San Antonio.

551
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 1: Instead of going to the border. Rosa was taken to

552
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 1: a detention center in San Antonio. Her deportation was intercepted.

553
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:32,479
Speaker 1: The agent told her to call someone to pick her up,

554
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:35,840
Speaker 1: so she called Vanessa for advice, thinking Vanessa was still

555
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 1: in New York. Then Rosa sees someone walking towards her.

556
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:42,120
Speaker 4: She had a mask on her and I was like,

557
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 4: I wonder, who's that lady. And then she come in

558
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 4: and hug me, and I'm still like, like, what is

559
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 4: this lady hugging? And then she's like you okay.

560
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:00,200
Speaker 1: Rosa was more than okaya.

561
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:06,440
Speaker 8: She was freem overwhelmed.

562
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:09,800
Speaker 1: Estella remembers seeing a press conference of her daughter online.

563
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:12,879
Speaker 9: I'm just so overwhelmed right now and I don't think

564
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,799
Speaker 9: I can really talk. But I just want to say

565
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:18,279
Speaker 9: thank you to all the people that stood behind me

566
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:22,840
Speaker 9: all these years.

567
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:27,880
Speaker 1: Moral she says. Rosa was standing there in front of

568
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:34,799
Speaker 1: the microphones, carrying a bag over her shoulder, and she

569
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:48,879
Speaker 1: says it broke her. She was happy and sad all

570
00:34:48,920 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 1: at once. She cried seeing her daughter finally free.

571
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:07,719
Speaker 5: Even more, but she.

572
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:11,479
Speaker 1: Was carrying all the hopes and illusions of nearly two

573
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 1: decades in a little bag over her shoulder. Rosa remembers

574
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:21,759
Speaker 1: the first time she was able to speak to her

575
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:25,560
Speaker 1: mom on the phone.

576
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:31,319
Speaker 4: It was nice to hear her voice. I remember I

577
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 4: was crying and she was like, don't cry anymore. That

578
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 4: is sober.

579
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:42,720
Speaker 1: That journey so over, and a new one was starting.

580
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:46,480
Speaker 1: A week later, Rosa was at Brenda's wedding, trying to

581
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:50,680
Speaker 1: catch up on the eighteen years she's lost from her kids' lives.

582
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 4: When you come home, you want everything that they took

583
00:35:56,160 --> 00:36:00,279
Speaker 4: from you back you wanted at the same exact mean

584
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:02,439
Speaker 4: you ow, you want to back, You want the love,

585
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:06,359
Speaker 4: you want your kids. You want everything. When I say

586
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:08,799
Speaker 4: everything is everything that they took from you, you want

587
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 4: to back. But the sad thing is that you cannot

588
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:21,280
Speaker 4: get those things met. And you head your kids are

589
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:27,799
Speaker 4: still small. Everything is like in like everything stopped and

590
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 4: now you ow and you realize that nothing has stopped you.

591
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:34,640
Speaker 4: Life is stopped, but no one's life has stopped.

592
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:40,640
Speaker 1: Brenda Roses little girl was an adult now in her twenties.

593
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 1: Vanessa was at the wedding as well, and she says

594
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 1: the day was complicated.

595
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:50,720
Speaker 7: Because you had, you know, her daughter was getting married.

596
00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 7: It's like this most important moment. And there was some

597
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:57,760
Speaker 7: beautiful parts where Roses going to the hotel room before

598
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:00,839
Speaker 7: and she's putting out her dress and getting her may

599
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:04,400
Speaker 7: get ready. But then at the ceremony itself, you saw

600
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:09,880
Speaker 7: that the mother who had really raised Rosa's daughter was

601
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 7: occupying that space of the mother of the bride, and

602
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:20,120
Speaker 7: Rosa was there as not a spectator, but just like

603
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 7: in such a weird position, And how bittersweet that would

604
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 7: be to be able to be at that moment and

605
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:30,719
Speaker 7: see your daughter and see this monumental moment happening in

606
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:36,440
Speaker 7: her life, but also feel so disconnected from the experience

607
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:39,439
Speaker 7: and all that had transpired since she was two years old,

608
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:41,800
Speaker 7: which was when Rosa went away.

609
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:49,440
Speaker 1: Life had moved on without her.

610
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 10: As prosecutors, we have an obligation to ensure the integrity

611
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:04,200
Speaker 10: of convictions and to seek justice.

612
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:08,720
Speaker 1: On August seventh, twenty twenty three, Travis County District Attorney

613
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:14,280
Speaker 1: Jose Garza dismissed Rose's murder charges and she was officially exonerated.

614
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:19,960
Speaker 10: Dismissing Missyimenez's case is the right thing to do. Our

615
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:24,719
Speaker 10: hearts also continued to break for the Gutierrez family. In

616
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:30,320
Speaker 10: this case, our criminal justice system failed them. It also

617
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:36,760
Speaker 10: failed Rosa Chimenez. Our hope is that by our actions today,

618
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:42,880
Speaker 10: by exposing the truth that Missimnez did not commit the

619
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:47,160
Speaker 10: crime for which she was accused, that we can bring

620
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:51,800
Speaker 10: some sense of closure and peace to both families.

621
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:56,440
Speaker 1: That same day, Rosa also became a grandmother.

622
00:38:57,239 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 2: You didn't get to really raise Brenda, but you got

623
00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:01,520
Speaker 2: to meet her daughter.

624
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:02,320
Speaker 1: And what was that like?

625
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:09,839
Speaker 4: Oh? That was at that moment I thought, oh my god,

626
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:15,120
Speaker 4: everything that I lost or they took or they robbed me,

627
00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 4: I can live again with my grand baby. I can

628
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:24,640
Speaker 4: experience all those things and teach her how to walk

629
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:30,320
Speaker 4: and you know, be there for her, give her everything

630
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 4: that I have. But they didn't happen like that.

631
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:38,400
Speaker 1: Things didn't work out as planned, and Rosa doesn't have

632
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:41,439
Speaker 1: a relationship with either of her kids right now. Both

633
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:44,360
Speaker 1: Aiden and Brenda have lived with her since her release.

634
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:47,680
Speaker 1: They tried to build a bond, but it never worked out.

635
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:51,920
Speaker 4: So my kids, they're already grown. They don't know me.

636
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:57,279
Speaker 8: I don't know them, and Rosa didn't know herself. I

637
00:39:57,360 --> 00:39:59,520
Speaker 8: was trying to figure out myself. I didn't know who

638
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:02,040
Speaker 8: I was when I came out from person. I didn't

639
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 8: know who I was, what I want, what I like?

640
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 8: I didn't know.

641
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:11,480
Speaker 1: Is there a piece you can make with losing your kids?

642
00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:17,560
Speaker 4: No, No, it's like I can. I don't know if

643
00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:20,680
Speaker 4: I can relate to actually a mother that has lost

644
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:25,880
Speaker 4: their kids. But it's really hard to know that you

645
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:30,120
Speaker 4: have kids and you can see them or they cannot

646
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:34,400
Speaker 4: call you whatever. You know, it's really hard. It's sad.

647
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:38,799
Speaker 4: It's really sad, Like I'm in this house and I wish,

648
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 4: you know, like my kids can come and visit and stay,

649
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:46,799
Speaker 4: and they don't.

650
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 1: On September of this year, Rosa flood in New York

651
00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:53,600
Speaker 1: to get a kidney transplant.

652
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:58,919
Speaker 7: You know, some people go many years without being able

653
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:00,400
Speaker 7: to find it donor.

654
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:03,240
Speaker 1: This seems pretty fast that she got a donor.

655
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 4: It was I think that happened. I guess she touched.

656
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:19,560
Speaker 7: Somebody out in the world. Hopefully this new kidney supports

657
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:25,160
Speaker 7: her in a very long, healthy life, and you know,

658
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 7: she's never going to be a whole in the sense

659
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:28,440
Speaker 7: that she's never going to be able to get that

660
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:30,520
Speaker 7: time back or the relationship back.

661
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 1: With her children.

662
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:34,879
Speaker 7: And I think coming to terms with that has been

663
00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:38,840
Speaker 7: hard for her because you spend so much time fighting

664
00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:42,160
Speaker 7: to try to get to something that you're never going

665
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:43,719
Speaker 7: to fully be able to get back to.

666
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 1: But Rosa's busy building a new life.

667
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:48,400
Speaker 9: O God.

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00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:54,439
Speaker 1: She lives outside of San Antonio in a brand new

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00:41:54,480 --> 00:42:00,160
Speaker 1: house overlooking the vast Texas Plains with her chihuahuas, Tequila

670
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:06,520
Speaker 1: and to see plus a few more. There's two more

671
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:07,279
Speaker 1: dogs that live here.

672
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:08,040
Speaker 4: We have five.

673
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:09,919
Speaker 1: You have five dogs.

674
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:14,680
Speaker 2: So you might not have your human children as close anymore,

675
00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:17,520
Speaker 2: but you have your dog children now right.

676
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:20,160
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I love them.

677
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:22,400
Speaker 1: And she has her wife, Mary Jane.

678
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 4: She's the only person that has been there for me

679
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:28,560
Speaker 4: and it has the patient to teach me. And I

680
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:33,600
Speaker 4: know she gets frustrated, but she's there for me. She

681
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:39,200
Speaker 4: knows the damage that presented to me like a lot.

682
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:42,040
Speaker 4: I have a lot of damage, you know, And she

683
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:44,200
Speaker 4: has to put up with all them, you know, and

684
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:48,799
Speaker 4: like teach me a little by little. Hey, the world is.

685
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:52,960
Speaker 1: Okay, and that Mary Jane's urging. Rosa is still trying

686
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:54,600
Speaker 1: to stay in touch with her kids.

687
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:59,040
Speaker 4: She's like, so just text them, let them know you

688
00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:01,880
Speaker 4: love them, let know that you think about them. And

689
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:04,959
Speaker 4: if they don't respond, that's their choice. But you're doing

690
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:07,399
Speaker 4: what a mother needs to do.

691
00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 1: And she keeps looking towards the future. Once she's healed

692
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 1: and her immigration status has worked out, she says she

693
00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:16,840
Speaker 1: wants to travel first to Mexico to visit her mom,

694
00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:19,720
Speaker 1: who she hasn't seen since her trial in two thousand

695
00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:23,839
Speaker 1: and five, then somewhere for her and Mary Jane.

696
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:31,319
Speaker 4: My word was suggesting a what are those things called

697
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:35,280
Speaker 4: where you go in a boat, A cruise, A cruse?

698
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:37,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh, I could see you on a cruise. I

699
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:38,640
Speaker 1: think you'd like that.

700
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:41,120
Speaker 4: And I was like, do they all loud dogs? And

701
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:43,360
Speaker 4: just like no, and I'm like, oh, what are we

702
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:44,800
Speaker 4: going to do with the girls?

703
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:52,120
Speaker 1: Life doesn't have perfect endings, but Rosa is grateful.

704
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:55,800
Speaker 4: Nonetheless, angels were behind me the whole time.

705
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:05,840
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freeling.

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00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:09,239
Speaker 1: Please support your local Innocent organizations and go to the

707
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:11,640
Speaker 1: links in the episode description to see how you can

708
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:14,880
Speaker 1: help and to learn more about the practice of shackling

709
00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:17,279
Speaker 1: women who are giving birth. Check out an article I

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00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:19,520
Speaker 1: wrote for Rolling Stone well linked to it as well.

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00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:23,920
Speaker 1: This episode was written by me Maggie Freeling, with story

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00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:27,640
Speaker 1: editing and sound design by senior producer Rebecca Ibarra. Our

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00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 1: producer is Kathleen Fink. Our mixer is Josh Allen, with

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00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:35,160
Speaker 1: research by Alison Levy and additional production help by Jeff Cliburn.

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00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:39,160
Speaker 1: Executive producers are Jason Flam, Jeff Kempler, and Kevin Wordis.

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00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:43,319
Speaker 1: The music is by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph.

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00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:46,160
Speaker 1: Make sure to follow us on all social media platforms

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00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:49,399
Speaker 1: at Lava for Good and at Wrongful Conviction. You can

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00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:53,120
Speaker 1: also follow me on all platforms at Maggie Freeling. Wrongful

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00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:55,680
Speaker 1: Conviction with Maggie Freeling is a production of Lava for

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Speaker 1: Good podcast in association with Signal Company Number one