WEBVTT - 4. Something We Might Look Into 0:00:05.600 --> 0:00:08.479 As FBI agent Mark Pinchot was investigating the credit card 0:00:08.480 --> 0:00:11.440 fraud ring run by Romanians in Las Vegas. He was 0:00:11.480 --> 0:00:15.880 invited to Romania to give lectures about organized crime to 0:00:15.920 --> 0:00:17.960 a group of the nation's law enforcement officials. 0:00:18.320 --> 0:00:20.240 And so I said, Josh, here I'll go. It's a week. 0:00:20.560 --> 0:00:23.279 I've never been to Romania. I'm working Romanians. This would 0:00:23.280 --> 0:00:24.240 be a good opportunity. 0:00:25.120 --> 0:00:27.600 Mark decided to fly in a week early to explore 0:00:27.640 --> 0:00:33.640 the country. Thankfully, he had a friend there waiting for him. 0:00:33.840 --> 0:00:37.199 When I land, there's Flavio in a suit. I'd never 0:00:37.200 --> 0:00:40.360 seen him in a suit, and he's wearing a badge. 0:00:40.800 --> 0:00:41.680 It's like, follow me. 0:00:42.360 --> 0:00:45.519 Flavio took Mark's passport and slammed it down along with 0:00:45.560 --> 0:00:48.720 the badge, in front of a customs agent, who then 0:00:48.960 --> 0:00:51.760 stamped Mark's passport, no questions. 0:00:51.360 --> 0:00:55.160 Asked, and I'm like, ah, something's going on here. Then 0:00:55.200 --> 0:00:58.280 we walk over to immigration and the same thing happens. 0:00:59.480 --> 0:01:01.960 So I'm not asking anything yet because I don't know 0:01:02.040 --> 0:01:03.840 who's listening, and I don't know what's going on. I 0:01:03.880 --> 0:01:06.679 don't know if I'm gonna be led to some gray 0:01:06.720 --> 0:01:09.440 government building and never be seen again. Because this is 0:01:09.520 --> 0:01:14.479 completely just different than what I expected. 0:01:15.120 --> 0:01:19.000 As they left the airport, mark'saff Flavio hand the badge 0:01:19.000 --> 0:01:19.440 to someone. 0:01:19.959 --> 0:01:22.240 Basically what he did it appears to me he just 0:01:22.280 --> 0:01:25.319 borrowed the badge from somebody new a connection and just 0:01:25.400 --> 0:01:28.679 walked me through these things. I mean, he had the 0:01:28.959 --> 0:01:33.200 aura of someone that had done that before, complete faith 0:01:33.240 --> 0:01:36.000 and confidence in what you're doing, you know, not avoiding 0:01:36.080 --> 0:01:38.319 eye contact, and just this is a matter of fact. 0:01:39.560 --> 0:01:42.680 Mark and Flavio then drove to the hotel. Not only 0:01:42.720 --> 0:01:46.080 did Flavio know which hotel Mark was staying in, but 0:01:46.880 --> 0:01:50.480 he already knew which room Mark had been assigned, and. 0:01:50.520 --> 0:01:53.560 He goes, all those rooms are wired. He goes, We'll 0:01:53.560 --> 0:01:56.040 put you another room in another name. Like why I'm 0:01:56.040 --> 0:01:59.680 not doing anything here? He goes, It's just better. So 0:01:59.720 --> 0:02:02.400 you're ackles, rise up, Like what the heck is going on? 0:02:03.360 --> 0:02:06.960 What was going on was Flavio was going out of 0:02:07.000 --> 0:02:09.639 his way to use his connections and help an American 0:02:09.720 --> 0:02:14.440 government official without even being asked. It wasn't the first 0:02:14.440 --> 0:02:18.000 time Flavio had done this, and it won't be the last. 0:02:22.240 --> 0:02:25.840 I'm Trevor Aronson from Western Sound and iHeart Podcasts. This 0:02:25.880 --> 0:02:50.320 is Alphabet Boys episode four, something we might look into. 0:02:55.680 --> 0:03:01.000 So to be clear, Flavio wasn't a Romanian official. He 0:03:01.080 --> 0:03:02.880 just borrowed a badge that belonged to a friend in 0:03:02.919 --> 0:03:06.400 Bucharest and walked into the airport like he owned the place. 0:03:07.240 --> 0:03:10.800 Play the part, fake it till you make it. Flavio 0:03:11.760 --> 0:03:18.040 was a master. That's the kind of mystery man Flavio was. 0:03:18.639 --> 0:03:22.720 He just knew people. He had access to things others didn't. 0:03:23.040 --> 0:03:25.399 He was just connected somehow. 0:03:28.160 --> 0:03:31.320 We looked at Bucharest and we went to, you know, 0:03:31.360 --> 0:03:34.160 some public and government buildings, and he did talk to 0:03:34.200 --> 0:03:36.480 some people, then removed some ropes, and we walked into 0:03:36.480 --> 0:03:39.040 places that we weren't allowed to walk to, you know. 0:03:39.080 --> 0:03:41.440 The next week when the rest of the contingent arrived 0:03:41.440 --> 0:03:44.320 from the United States. But we just traveled around and 0:03:44.440 --> 0:03:46.520 went to different restaurants and met some people. 0:03:47.240 --> 0:03:49.920 As Flavio saw it, he was a friend of the FBI. 0:03:50.640 --> 0:03:54.320 Mark was visiting Romania, so Flavio would show him around. 0:03:54.960 --> 0:03:55.800 That's what friends do. 0:03:57.080 --> 0:03:57.400 Mark. 0:03:57.480 --> 0:03:58.640 He's a Mark. 0:03:58.720 --> 0:04:03.400 He's a person which I wish all the government employees 0:04:03.400 --> 0:04:06.800 to be like him. And he came with the approval 0:04:06.880 --> 0:04:10.120 from Washington to spend with me two weeks together as 0:04:10.120 --> 0:04:11.880 a vacation as a friends. 0:04:12.400 --> 0:04:15.640 It was like one of those odd couple road trip movies. 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:18.360 And we have a lot of fun. We see the 0:04:18.400 --> 0:04:21.479 carpetin mountains, we see the Black Sea. We have a 0:04:21.520 --> 0:04:22.040 lot of fun. 0:04:22.120 --> 0:04:22.640 Me and him. 0:04:22.960 --> 0:04:28.760 I was really try to impress him with Romania from 0:04:28.800 --> 0:04:32.440 my eyes and from my point of view to see 0:04:32.440 --> 0:04:33.039 that country. 0:04:34.560 --> 0:04:39.240 But the thing is, it was all spontaneous. Mark had 0:04:39.240 --> 0:04:42.039 simply told Flavio that he was going to Romania. He 0:04:42.080 --> 0:04:43.920 didn't even expect Flavio to be there. 0:04:44.560 --> 0:04:46.400 It was so sort of a shock that he was there. 0:04:47.240 --> 0:04:49.920 Flavio just went out of his way to take a 0:04:49.960 --> 0:04:52.200 whole week off to drive Mark around. 0:04:52.640 --> 0:04:54.080 But you know, he asked, Hey, what do you want 0:04:54.080 --> 0:04:56.520 to do? I said, I want to eat what Romanians 0:04:57.000 --> 0:04:59.800 everyone has a tribe soup and it's like a short 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:02.880 the burta is what it was. I like, tribe soup, 0:05:03.800 --> 0:05:06.360 need everything, and I went to a restaurant and that's 0:05:06.360 --> 0:05:07.000 what I ordered. 0:05:07.800 --> 0:05:10.800 Mark also saw firsthand the business Flavia was helping to run, 0:05:11.279 --> 0:05:14.960 handling the internet infrastructure for Romanians running webcam channels. 0:05:15.640 --> 0:05:18.600 I did see his chat room and it was up 0:05:18.600 --> 0:05:22.000 in some attic somewhere where there had three or four beds, 0:05:22.480 --> 0:05:25.039 and he provided that so they could sleep because a 0:05:25.040 --> 0:05:27.600 lot of the people they spoke with, his workers spoke 0:05:27.640 --> 0:05:30.479 with were Americans the Times of Difference, and there were 0:05:30.760 --> 0:05:32.480 just a number of tables with the computers in there, 0:05:32.480 --> 0:05:34.719 and there may have been a coffeemaker or tea or 0:05:34.720 --> 0:05:35.599 something like that. 0:05:35.800 --> 0:05:36.440 But that was it. 0:05:36.440 --> 0:05:37.720 It was pretty humble. 0:05:40.200 --> 0:05:44.040 But there were some places in Romania where Flavio wouldn't 0:05:44.080 --> 0:05:48.560 go with Mark because those places had informants of their own. 0:05:49.520 --> 0:05:54.080 I asked to go to a couple of casinos because 0:05:54.120 --> 0:05:57.120 I wanted to talk to the people that ran the casinos. 0:05:57.520 --> 0:06:00.200 He warned against it. He said, that's probably not a 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:03.200 good idea. He goes, there's prostitutes in front. They're going 0:06:03.240 --> 0:06:06.160 to report on who's coming in, what they're driving, all 0:06:06.200 --> 0:06:09.520 this other stuff. That's why the prostitutes are arrested. He goes, 0:06:09.600 --> 0:06:11.400 if you go there, I'll have to drop you off 0:06:11.440 --> 0:06:12.320 and you'll have to walk. 0:06:14.720 --> 0:06:17.360 Mark wanted to know how things worked in Romania, how 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:20.359 the corruption went down, how the casinos were connected to 0:06:20.440 --> 0:06:24.880 organized crime. So Mark just walked in requested to speak 0:06:24.880 --> 0:06:27.880 to the casino's manager. And asked. 0:06:28.720 --> 0:06:31.160 I said, hey, I'm just curious how things work here, 0:06:31.160 --> 0:06:34.400 And I asked about how you know they paid kickbacks 0:06:34.400 --> 0:06:37.240 and things like that. I mean, pretty pretty poored. I 0:06:37.360 --> 0:06:40.520 just wanted to know how things worked in Romania. It's 0:06:40.600 --> 0:06:41.920 professional curiosity. 0:06:43.000 --> 0:06:46.039 But Mark didn't mention to the casino manager that he 0:06:46.080 --> 0:06:47.000 was an FBI agent. 0:06:47.640 --> 0:06:52.080 No, no, no, that would that'd be sticking your neck 0:06:52.080 --> 0:06:53.200 out way too far. 0:06:54.080 --> 0:06:58.040 The casino manager answered Mark's questions but kept her cards close. 0:06:58.880 --> 0:07:01.840 She's not naming names, doesn't say, hey, this commissioner of 0:07:01.920 --> 0:07:04.240 this does that. She's just giving me the mechanics of 0:07:04.279 --> 0:07:05.560 how it works. 0:07:09.960 --> 0:07:11.800 Mark was gaining a lot of insight that would prove 0:07:11.840 --> 0:07:14.880 helpful back in America, and he was also learning more 0:07:14.920 --> 0:07:19.000 about Flavio. Mark discovered that Flavio, who'd by then become 0:07:19.000 --> 0:07:22.200 a US citizen, wasn't drawn back to Romania only by 0:07:22.200 --> 0:07:25.680 his business interests. He had a romantic interest too. 0:07:26.000 --> 0:07:28.480 It was funny because his big concern wasn't most of 0:07:28.480 --> 0:07:31.000 the time you hear about relationship issues. Ah, she won't 0:07:31.080 --> 0:07:32.360 let me do this, she won't let me do that. 0:07:32.640 --> 0:07:34.160 For him, it was like, she has to get her 0:07:34.160 --> 0:07:36.960 finances and she has to be responsible. You know, he's 0:07:37.120 --> 0:07:40.160 sort of like a parent, that's the way he was. Yeah, 0:07:40.480 --> 0:07:45.200 strange little guy. 0:07:46.560 --> 0:07:49.960 Anyway, after this friendly trip together in Romania, Mark and 0:07:50.000 --> 0:07:53.080 Flavia returned to the United States and picked up their 0:07:53.080 --> 0:07:57.880 investigation of the Romanian credit card ring. That investigation was 0:07:58.280 --> 0:08:03.960 all consuming. Crime doesn't take a day off, right, or 0:08:04.640 --> 0:08:05.000 does it. 0:08:06.160 --> 0:08:08.920 We didn't like to work on Wednesday. Why because we 0:08:08.960 --> 0:08:12.240 worked the weekends and everyone needed days off. So you're like, 0:08:12.840 --> 0:08:15.760 Tuesday Wednesday. We'll try to give everyone days off Tuesday Wednesday. 0:08:16.640 --> 0:08:19.240 Mark, thanks to his travels and his obsession with his 0:08:19.240 --> 0:08:23.600 investigative targets, had learned a lot about Romanians and Romanian culture, 0:08:24.360 --> 0:08:27.640 and he was now using that knowledge to inform his investigation. 0:08:28.880 --> 0:08:31.440 So it's things like you find a dead burden, you 0:08:31.560 --> 0:08:33.439 leave it on their porch on a Wednesday, or on 0:08:33.480 --> 0:08:37.439 their bump on a Wednesday, or an unfortunate event will 0:08:37.480 --> 0:08:40.240 happen for an informant on a Wednesday, and so they 0:08:40.240 --> 0:08:42.800 can say, I'm superstitious, I'm not going to do anything 0:08:42.800 --> 0:08:45.320 on a Wednesday, because that's when I got pulled over 0:08:45.360 --> 0:08:47.520 by the police and my car got towed. And that's 0:08:47.559 --> 0:08:51.160 part of learning, you know, about the culture. 0:08:51.960 --> 0:08:55.280 Mark was able to subtly stage direct the Romanians to 0:08:55.360 --> 0:08:58.680 align their crime schedule with the FBI work schedule. 0:08:59.360 --> 0:09:02.000 What's supers just for them, what's a bad omen, what's 0:09:02.040 --> 0:09:04.400 a because even if they don't believe it, someone in 0:09:04.440 --> 0:09:06.400 their culture may believe it and they have to respect that. 0:09:06.800 --> 0:09:08.080 So we used to work those things in. 0:09:10.040 --> 0:09:12.560 By this time, Mark and the FBI had a full 0:09:12.600 --> 0:09:15.840 portrait of the criminal organization. They knew how it worked, 0:09:16.520 --> 0:09:20.680 and they knew the name of the man in charge. 0:09:19.840 --> 0:09:23.040 Petri Drogoy. He recently died. 0:09:24.080 --> 0:09:28.080 That was the big boss, Petrew Dragoy. 0:09:29.080 --> 0:09:34.920 Petrick Durgoy was probably in his fifties, well mannered, incredibly smart. 0:09:35.720 --> 0:09:38.640 At the time, Petrew was facing competition from an upstart, 0:09:39.120 --> 0:09:41.360 a younger guy who wanted to take control of the 0:09:41.400 --> 0:09:46.120 Las Vegas Crew. His name was Florin, but he went 0:09:46.120 --> 0:09:50.480 by Tony in honor of Tony Montana from Scarface. 0:09:51.360 --> 0:09:54.839 What is the fascination with that movie in that character 0:09:54.880 --> 0:09:57.720 because they want to be some crime kingpin? Did they 0:09:57.800 --> 0:09:59.160 not watch the end of the movie. 0:10:00.240 --> 0:10:03.880 You've probably seen Scarface, it's a classic. But for those 0:10:03.880 --> 0:10:07.280 who haven't, Tony Montana, played by a young al Pacino. 0:10:07.880 --> 0:10:19.280 That's a very brutal death in the end. Anyway, Mark 0:10:19.320 --> 0:10:23.640 had recruited an informant inside the Romanian organization, an older 0:10:23.640 --> 0:10:25.840 guy who had become trusted by both the big boss 0:10:25.960 --> 0:10:29.120 Petru and Florin or Tony. 0:10:30.160 --> 0:10:33.000 But the thing that comes out of this is that 0:10:33.559 --> 0:10:36.840 we know Petru has some real stick, very well connected, 0:10:37.080 --> 0:10:39.760 very well connected back in Romania. You could cause some 0:10:39.840 --> 0:10:43.000 real problems. As I recall you a little bit arrogant, 0:10:43.040 --> 0:10:45.839 but you almost have to be to run these crews. 0:10:45.880 --> 0:10:47.160 Lack of confidence is death. 0:10:49.600 --> 0:10:53.320 As Petru was fending off Florin slash Tony, he somehow 0:10:53.320 --> 0:10:59.559 discovered or became suspicious enough to believe that Flavio was 0:10:59.600 --> 0:11:06.120 a snit. Mark's insider in the Romanian group attended a 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:09.760 meeting with Petrew and other high ranking members of the organization. 0:11:10.760 --> 0:11:16.000 Petrew expressed concerns about Flavio and recommended that he'd be killed. 0:11:17.320 --> 0:11:22.960 Mark's informant taking notes, wrote Petrew and others offering five 0:11:23.000 --> 0:11:25.880 thousand each for a hit on a guy named Flavio. 0:11:28.679 --> 0:11:32.719 But the whole crime organization, they decide to everyone to 0:11:32.760 --> 0:11:36.400 put five thousand dollars each one to kill me to 0:11:36.400 --> 0:11:39.200 pay somebody to kill me and somebody should my cut 0:11:39.280 --> 0:11:42.080 and everything. And I didn't say one word to a FVA. 0:11:42.160 --> 0:11:44.360 I didn't go, I didn't try, I didn't claim, I 0:11:44.400 --> 0:11:48.760 didn't do anything. One day, I went to them in 0:11:48.800 --> 0:11:52.160 the FDA office in Las Vegas, and I said, it's done, 0:11:52.280 --> 0:11:53.280 we are finished. 0:11:55.640 --> 0:11:59.920 Flavio, concerned about a safety, left Las Vegas and Rich 0:12:00.000 --> 0:12:18.000 turned to Europe more after the break. After Flavio heard 0:12:18.040 --> 0:12:21.240 about the supposed hit on him from the Romanian crime boss, 0:12:21.760 --> 0:12:27.800 he fled the US. Mark, Flavio's FBI handler, thought he 0:12:27.920 --> 0:12:32.200 was overreacting, that this was all just talk. 0:12:33.240 --> 0:12:35.520 I mean, there was one against I don't want to 0:12:35.559 --> 0:12:36.360 talk about me, but. 0:12:36.360 --> 0:12:40.640 Okay, Mark has his own experience with this kind of thing. 0:12:42.600 --> 0:12:44.599 Yeah, it's not unusual. One of the guys that we 0:12:44.720 --> 0:12:47.720 arrested that's about the same level as Petru was in 0:12:47.800 --> 0:12:51.400 jail and he put out a hit on me. I'm 0:12:51.440 --> 0:12:53.520 not worried about it. I mean, I mean, that's how 0:12:54.600 --> 0:12:56.560 that's how I'm taking this. I'm not worried about it 0:12:56.559 --> 0:13:00.040 because he could put out a hit on me. But no, 0:13:00.400 --> 0:13:02.920 one's not this group, not the Romanians. 0:13:03.559 --> 0:13:06.800 In Mark's view, that they were talking about the hit 0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:12.679 meant it wasn't serious five thousand bucks. There was no 0:13:12.760 --> 0:13:15.880 way Petro was paying someone five thousand bucks to kill Flavio. 0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:20.280 If Petru really wanted someone dead, he could have made 0:13:20.280 --> 0:13:22.560 that happen for a lot less money. 0:13:23.840 --> 0:13:27.559 From my experience, streak guys, they'll do it for fifty bucks. 0:13:27.559 --> 0:13:30.680 They'll do a hit in Romania for fifty bucks. You 0:13:30.760 --> 0:13:34.800 know they don't care why. I mean, it's possible so here. 0:13:35.040 --> 0:13:36.800 Why would you pay someone wanted someone to do it 0:13:36.880 --> 0:13:38.040 just for status. 0:13:39.400 --> 0:13:44.440 After Flavio skipped town, his FBI friend Mark never saw 0:13:44.520 --> 0:13:55.800 him again. In the end, Flavio's assistance resulted in a 0:13:55.800 --> 0:13:59.520 big federal case. The Justice Department in two thousand and 0:13:59.559 --> 0:14:04.320 four indicted twenty one people on federal racketeering and fraud charges. 0:14:08.000 --> 0:14:11.199 Flavio said he wanted to help America, and he did. 0:14:12.400 --> 0:14:16.680 Mark thinks Flavio deserves real credit recognition that he never 0:14:16.720 --> 0:14:20.880 received because he didn't want it and because by the 0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:24.240 time the arrest had occurred, Flavio was already out of 0:14:24.280 --> 0:14:29.040 the country fearing for his life. The FBI's case struck 0:14:29.080 --> 0:14:31.560 at the heart of Romanian organized crime in Las Vegas, 0:14:31.920 --> 0:14:35.440 bringing down nearly the entire crew that Petro de Roy ran. 0:14:36.360 --> 0:14:42.880 Even Florin the scarface fan was indicted, but the case 0:14:42.880 --> 0:14:46.880 didn't stop the fraud in the long term. Prosecuting organized 0:14:46.920 --> 0:14:49.600 crime is a bit like playing whack a mole, hit 0:14:49.640 --> 0:14:54.680 one another pops up, and the Romanians are still popping up. 0:14:55.080 --> 0:14:58.440 In Las Vegas. This is from a local TV news 0:14:58.480 --> 0:15:00.200 report from twenty twenty two. 0:15:01.080 --> 0:15:03.280 A Romanian citizen has been sentenced to three and a 0:15:03.320 --> 0:15:06.240 half years in prison for an ATM skimming fraud scheme 0:15:06.280 --> 0:15:07.760 here in Las Vegas. 0:15:11.840 --> 0:15:14.720 After the indictments came down, Flavio still felt he wasn't 0:15:14.760 --> 0:15:17.280 safe living in America, so he built a new life 0:15:17.320 --> 0:15:20.239 in Europe. He spent his time in London and Bucharest 0:15:20.520 --> 0:15:23.080 running multiple businesses. He was doing well. 0:15:23.600 --> 0:15:28.120 I was living in London, I was living in a finnhouse, 0:15:28.720 --> 0:15:33.120 extremely nice in Sohopikabilli go to his sushi Tou Nobu, 0:15:33.480 --> 0:15:34.760 all the good life. 0:15:36.160 --> 0:15:39.720 The FBI officially closed Flavio's file as a confidential human 0:15:39.800 --> 0:15:43.280 source after he left America in two thousand and three, 0:15:43.440 --> 0:15:48.240 but internal reports show that Flavio, while in Europe, continued 0:15:48.280 --> 0:15:51.560 to have periodic contact with agents through two thousand and nine. 0:15:52.760 --> 0:15:57.160 FBI agents can use information from registered informants in reports. 0:15:57.800 --> 0:16:03.520 Unregistered informants, often refer to as hip pocket informants, provide information, 0:16:03.840 --> 0:16:08.680 but agents can't attribute information to them. They're like off 0:16:08.680 --> 0:16:14.920 the record sources. Flavio became one of these, a hip 0:16:14.960 --> 0:16:20.680 pocket informant. So we know from FBI documents that Flavio 0:16:20.840 --> 0:16:24.040 continued to provide information to federal agents through two thousand 0:16:24.080 --> 0:16:28.600 and nine, for approximately six years after he left Las Vegas. 0:16:29.760 --> 0:16:33.920 What we don't know from those documents is what information 0:16:34.760 --> 0:16:39.200 that was. But according to Flavio, he was helping agents 0:16:39.360 --> 0:16:43.760 with high level cases, including the investigation of a Romanian 0:16:43.880 --> 0:16:45.920 named Nikolai Popescu. 0:16:47.240 --> 0:16:51.280 He's on the ABA first page, warrants and warnings and everything. 0:16:51.320 --> 0:16:54.160 They put a million dollars in is one which I 0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:56.960 know him very well, is close to me. They put 0:16:57.000 --> 0:16:58.760 a million dollars out of the reward. 0:17:00.040 --> 0:17:03.760 Popescu is one of the FBI's most wanted fugitives. While 0:17:03.800 --> 0:17:05.600 his case has not received a lot of publicity in 0:17:05.600 --> 0:17:09.640 the United States, it's been big news in Romania. 0:17:09.800 --> 0:17:13.920 Chervistis Nicolaesu de Trisi. She changed anion Exandrie der Mont. 0:17:14.080 --> 0:17:18.000 The Justice Department accuses Popescu of running an international internet 0:17:18.040 --> 0:17:22.439 fraud scheme. Popescu and his colleagues tricked unsuspecting Americans and 0:17:22.480 --> 0:17:26.960 is sending online payments for expensive cars while pocketing millions 0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:32.600 of dollars as part of the con. Maybe Flavio was 0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:36.960 helping the FBI with these big cases, or maybe he wasn't. 0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:42.920 We can't be sure, but here's my understanding of Flavio's 0:17:42.960 --> 0:17:47.360 relationship with the FBI. Starting in two thousand and one, 0:17:47.800 --> 0:17:50.800 he acts as an informant for about two years. His 0:17:50.880 --> 0:17:56.000 information leads to headline grabbing indictments, then, following the murder 0:17:56.000 --> 0:18:00.520 for higher scare, Flavio's relationship with the bureau becomes informal. 0:18:01.200 --> 0:18:05.080 Almost six years of so called hip pocket informat work, 0:18:05.760 --> 0:18:08.959 very much off the books, very much based on friendly 0:18:09.040 --> 0:18:17.040 contact with willing and eager federal agents. But now it's 0:18:17.080 --> 0:18:20.440 twenty twelve and Flavio gets a call from his old 0:18:20.440 --> 0:18:24.200 friend Andy in Los Angeles about a guy from Colombia 0:18:24.359 --> 0:18:28.879 who's looking to purchase millions of dollars in weapons. Flavio 0:18:29.359 --> 0:18:33.120 is a seasoned hand for the US government, a longtime cooperator, 0:18:33.760 --> 0:18:38.920 informant and friend, so within minutes of hanging up the 0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:44.000 phone with Andy. Flavio makes that call to the CIA. 0:18:45.280 --> 0:18:50.280 I said, I should not call it. Via Corsier, Good afternoon, 0:18:50.320 --> 0:18:54.119 How can I help you? Like Courtier in the fourth school, 0:18:54.200 --> 0:18:56.840 I spoke for fifteen minutes with the lady on the phone, 0:18:57.280 --> 0:19:02.320 and she was kept sending me to American embassy in Boucharist. 0:19:02.880 --> 0:19:04.600 If you need to talk in person only, then you 0:19:04.640 --> 0:19:07.720 need to go to the empathy. No, I'm not going 0:19:07.840 --> 0:19:10.960 there because you know I was working and I know 0:19:11.640 --> 0:19:13.920 I'm not trusting people over seeing many other. 0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:15.800 Times and I said, no, I want to go there 0:19:15.880 --> 0:19:19.399 because everybody knows me over there. And I said, I 0:19:19.440 --> 0:19:21.119 don't feel comfortable. I don't want to do that. 0:19:22.359 --> 0:19:26.359 The first CIA agent, she hangs up on Flavia. Okay, 0:19:26.520 --> 0:19:27.280 well we can't help you. 0:19:27.520 --> 0:19:28.160 Thank you the vice. 0:19:32.600 --> 0:19:35.720 And after that I receive a call from like minutes later, 0:19:35.760 --> 0:19:38.560 I receive a call from a gentleman. He said, oh, hi, 0:19:38.640 --> 0:19:41.120 my name is whatever. I don't even remember his name. 0:19:41.280 --> 0:19:42.440 As I understand it, I don't. 0:19:42.640 --> 0:19:44.080 I don't think there was anything that the. 0:19:44.040 --> 0:19:46.880 Agency could do to a sister facilitate what you're trying 0:19:46.880 --> 0:19:50.120 to accomplish. 0:19:48.640 --> 0:19:53.040 If you remember, Flavio tells the second CIA agent everything 0:19:53.880 --> 0:19:56.920 the call from Andy and Los Angeles, how Andy knows 0:19:56.920 --> 0:20:00.160 this Colombian guy trying to buy weapons, and how and 0:20:00.160 --> 0:20:03.280 and the Colombian don't appear to have an ENDS user 0:20:03.280 --> 0:20:08.200 certificate valid for Colombia, suggesting that this deal is illegal 0:20:08.960 --> 0:20:12.600 and possibly a US national security concern. 0:20:13.560 --> 0:20:14.120 I would. 0:20:15.440 --> 0:20:20.320 Determination, I would districtive for the US government because all 0:20:20.359 --> 0:20:22.639 the time he said, thank you very much, thank you, 0:20:22.800 --> 0:20:26.600 thank you. Okay, okay, I'm so thankful, so grateful, so thankful, 0:20:26.640 --> 0:20:29.240 so grateful for everything, which I said, I'm gonna do 0:20:29.400 --> 0:20:33.160 for CAA and collect more intel to clarify this one, 0:20:33.200 --> 0:20:35.480 because you keep saying we need more information. 0:20:36.040 --> 0:20:37.800 If you were force right with all the details, then 0:20:37.800 --> 0:20:39.359 we could verify your story. 0:20:39.400 --> 0:20:41.560 That's something we might look into and pass to the 0:20:41.680 --> 0:20:42.399 right authorities. 0:20:43.600 --> 0:20:47.719 That's something we might look into. Not I might look into, 0:20:48.200 --> 0:20:51.760 not you might look into, but we might look into. 0:20:54.560 --> 0:20:58.159 And my understanding the English, we need more information like 0:20:58.240 --> 0:21:00.639 me and you, me and him, we need more information 0:21:00.800 --> 0:21:02.320 to collect them. 0:21:02.720 --> 0:21:06.520 The agent uses what sometimes called the royal we, referring 0:21:06.560 --> 0:21:10.960 to yourself or your institution as we, just as monarchs 0:21:10.960 --> 0:21:14.560 of the past did. Any native English speaker would likely 0:21:14.600 --> 0:21:19.400 hear the cias we as just referring to them the CIA. 0:21:20.240 --> 0:21:25.160 We as in the CIA might look into this. But Flavio, 0:21:25.760 --> 0:21:28.320 for whom English is the second language and who has 0:21:28.359 --> 0:21:31.760 a history of cooperating with the US government, says he 0:21:31.760 --> 0:21:36.000 hears the WEI as he and the CIA. 0:21:36.480 --> 0:21:39.960 And you just keep saying okay, ok okay. I always 0:21:40.040 --> 0:21:42.960 keep past me. You sure you really need those information, 0:21:43.080 --> 0:21:45.359 because if you don't need then I have some things 0:21:45.400 --> 0:21:47.639 to do in my life. Definitely something that if we 0:21:47.760 --> 0:21:51.199 can verify, I would be of interest, saying to be 0:21:51.280 --> 0:21:51.920 aware of. 0:21:52.720 --> 0:21:59.240 If we can verify, meaning the way Flavio is hearing it, 0:21:59.359 --> 0:22:02.439 if Flavia can verify, he. 0:22:02.520 --> 0:22:05.919 Said, okay, okay, okay, I said, okay. I took it 0:22:06.040 --> 0:22:06.520 like a year. 0:22:07.480 --> 0:22:09.440 We have to protect each other. This is the way 0:22:09.480 --> 0:22:11.360 we have to work together, all right. 0:22:11.680 --> 0:22:13.639 I totally understand what I want to do. 0:22:13.720 --> 0:22:16.600 I will want to send this information to an internal 0:22:16.600 --> 0:22:19.720 desk here for inside purposes only so they can look 0:22:19.760 --> 0:22:23.480 at it for interest and begin to investigate. 0:22:25.400 --> 0:22:32.680 And after that we finished the conversation. I was very 0:22:32.720 --> 0:22:35.399 excited about the conversation. If you if you have the 0:22:35.480 --> 0:22:39.359 chance to listen to conversations, you you kind of to 0:22:39.480 --> 0:22:43.680 see my excitement in my voice and the drive which 0:22:43.760 --> 0:22:44.679 I have to do that. 0:22:46.160 --> 0:22:50.560 Flavio takes the call as affirmation an oral contract, to 0:22:50.640 --> 0:22:54.960 use Flavio's preferred term, that the CIA wants them to 0:22:55.000 --> 0:22:57.240 find out more in the. 0:22:57.200 --> 0:23:01.879 Whole conversation, this gentleman from CIA, he's supposed to say 0:23:02.520 --> 0:23:06.920 one simple sentence, thank you very much for all the information. 0:23:07.440 --> 0:23:11.679 Please do not engage in any actions on behalf of 0:23:11.760 --> 0:23:15.440 our agency or behalf of the United States, because you're 0:23:15.440 --> 0:23:18.240 going to be fully prosecuted under the international laws of 0:23:18.280 --> 0:23:22.280 the United States. And do you understand what I'm telling you? 0:23:22.320 --> 0:23:24.600 Do you understand He's supposed to check with me because 0:23:24.800 --> 0:23:27.200 he see my drive, he see my excitement, he see 0:23:27.280 --> 0:23:32.480 I don't speak English for me. In my mind that 0:23:32.600 --> 0:23:36.800 time was I was proved. If you see all the 0:23:36.880 --> 0:23:41.000 documents from a FBI and how professional I was, and 0:23:41.640 --> 0:23:44.560 how much honesty and dignity I have and never be 0:23:44.760 --> 0:23:49.639 charged or arrested, were interrogate word did something wrong to 0:23:50.280 --> 0:23:55.040 become as an informer or a confidential source. I never 0:23:55.080 --> 0:23:55.760 do anything wrong. 0:23:56.920 --> 0:24:00.639 I've listened to Flavio's calls with the CIA over and 0:24:00.800 --> 0:24:05.720 over and over. It's true that the CIA agent does 0:24:05.760 --> 0:24:09.800 not explicitly tell Flavio not to engage with Andy in 0:24:09.840 --> 0:24:13.920 the Colombian on the CIA's behalf. And if you take 0:24:13.920 --> 0:24:18.040 that we to include Flavio, I can see how it 0:24:18.640 --> 0:24:23.520 could be taken as marching orders. But it's also true 0:24:23.640 --> 0:24:26.760 that the CIA agent doesn't enter into any kind of 0:24:26.840 --> 0:24:29.560 clear cut agreement with Flavio that would make him an 0:24:29.600 --> 0:24:35.199 informant or an agent of the CIA. At best, the 0:24:35.280 --> 0:24:42.320 calls are ambiguous. The CIA agents are interested in the information. 0:24:43.160 --> 0:24:46.440 That much is clear. The second agent even says he'll 0:24:46.480 --> 0:24:49.560 pass the information up the chain of command and someone 0:24:49.760 --> 0:24:51.719 may contact Flavio. 0:24:52.119 --> 0:24:53.400 But what is. 0:24:53.320 --> 0:24:57.840