1 00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:08,479 Speaker 1: As FBI agent Mark Pinchot was investigating the credit card 2 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:11,440 Speaker 1: fraud ring run by Romanians in Las Vegas. He was 3 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 1: invited to Romania to give lectures about organized crime to 4 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:17,960 Speaker 1: a group of the nation's law enforcement officials. 5 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:20,240 Speaker 2: And so I said, Josh, here I'll go. It's a week. 6 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:23,279 Speaker 2: I've never been to Romania. I'm working Romanians. This would 7 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:24,240 Speaker 2: be a good opportunity. 8 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 1: Mark decided to fly in a week early to explore 9 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:33,640 Speaker 1: the country. Thankfully, he had a friend there waiting for him. 10 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:37,199 Speaker 2: When I land, there's Flavio in a suit. I'd never 11 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 2: seen him in a suit, and he's wearing a badge. 12 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 2: It's like, follow me. 13 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:45,519 Speaker 1: Flavio took Mark's passport and slammed it down along with 14 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 1: the badge, in front of a customs agent, who then 15 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 1: stamped Mark's passport, no questions. 16 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 2: Asked, and I'm like, ah, something's going on here. Then 17 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 2: we walk over to immigration and the same thing happens. 18 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:01,960 Speaker 2: So I'm not asking anything yet because I don't know 19 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 2: who's listening, and I don't know what's going on. I 20 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:06,679 Speaker 2: don't know if I'm gonna be led to some gray 21 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:09,440 Speaker 2: government building and never be seen again. Because this is 22 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:14,479 Speaker 2: completely just different than what I expected. 23 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 1: As they left the airport, mark'saff Flavio hand the badge 24 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 1: to someone. 25 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 2: Basically what he did it appears to me he just 26 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:25,319 Speaker 2: borrowed the badge from somebody new a connection and just 27 00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:28,679 Speaker 2: walked me through these things. I mean, he had the 28 00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:33,200 Speaker 2: aura of someone that had done that before, complete faith 29 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:36,000 Speaker 2: and confidence in what you're doing, you know, not avoiding 30 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:38,319 Speaker 2: eye contact, and just this is a matter of fact. 31 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:42,680 Speaker 1: Mark and Flavio then drove to the hotel. Not only 32 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 1: did Flavio know which hotel Mark was staying in, but 33 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 1: he already knew which room Mark had been assigned, and. 34 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:53,560 Speaker 2: He goes, all those rooms are wired. He goes, We'll 35 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 2: put you another room in another name. Like why I'm 36 00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 2: not doing anything here? He goes, It's just better. So 37 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:02,400 Speaker 2: you're ackles, rise up, Like what the heck is going on? 38 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 1: What was going on was Flavio was going out of 39 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:09,639 Speaker 1: his way to use his connections and help an American 40 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 1: government official without even being asked. It wasn't the first 41 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 1: time Flavio had done this, and it won't be the last. 42 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 1: I'm Trevor Aronson from Western Sound and iHeart Podcasts. This 43 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:50,320 Speaker 1: is Alphabet Boys episode four, something we might look into. 44 00:02:55,680 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 1: So to be clear, Flavio wasn't a Romanian official. He 45 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 1: just borrowed a badge that belonged to a friend in 46 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:06,400 Speaker 1: Bucharest and walked into the airport like he owned the place. 47 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:10,800 Speaker 1: Play the part, fake it till you make it. Flavio 48 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:18,040 Speaker 1: was a master. That's the kind of mystery man Flavio was. 49 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:22,720 Speaker 1: He just knew people. He had access to things others didn't. 50 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:25,399 Speaker 1: He was just connected somehow. 51 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 2: We looked at Bucharest and we went to, you know, 52 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 2: some public and government buildings, and he did talk to 53 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 2: some people, then removed some ropes, and we walked into 54 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 2: places that we weren't allowed to walk to, you know. 55 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 2: The next week when the rest of the contingent arrived 56 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 2: from the United States. But we just traveled around and 57 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 2: went to different restaurants and met some people. 58 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 1: As Flavio saw it, he was a friend of the FBI. 59 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 1: Mark was visiting Romania, so Flavio would show him around. 60 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 1: That's what friends do. 61 00:03:57,080 --> 00:03:57,400 Speaker 3: Mark. 62 00:03:57,480 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 4: He's a Mark. 63 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 5: He's a person which I wish all the government employees 64 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 5: to be like him. And he came with the approval 65 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 5: from Washington to spend with me two weeks together as 66 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 5: a vacation as a friends. 67 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 1: It was like one of those odd couple road trip movies. 68 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 5: And we have a lot of fun. We see the 69 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:21,479 Speaker 5: carpetin mountains, we see the Black Sea. We have a 70 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:22,040 Speaker 5: lot of fun. 71 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 4: Me and him. 72 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 5: I was really try to impress him with Romania from 73 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 5: my eyes and from my point of view to see 74 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:33,039 Speaker 5: that country. 75 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:39,240 Speaker 1: But the thing is, it was all spontaneous. Mark had 76 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:42,039 Speaker 1: simply told Flavio that he was going to Romania. He 77 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:43,920 Speaker 1: didn't even expect Flavio to be there. 78 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 2: It was so sort of a shock that he was there. 79 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:49,920 Speaker 1: Flavio just went out of his way to take a 80 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 1: whole week off to drive Mark around. 81 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 2: But you know, he asked, Hey, what do you want 82 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:56,520 Speaker 2: to do? I said, I want to eat what Romanians 83 00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 2: everyone has a tribe soup and it's like a short 84 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:02,880 Speaker 2: the burta is what it was. I like, tribe soup, 85 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 2: need everything, and I went to a restaurant and that's 86 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 2: what I ordered. 87 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 1: Mark also saw firsthand the business Flavia was helping to run, 88 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 1: handling the internet infrastructure for Romanians running webcam channels. 89 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:18,600 Speaker 2: I did see his chat room and it was up 90 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 2: in some attic somewhere where there had three or four beds, 91 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:25,039 Speaker 2: and he provided that so they could sleep because a 92 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:27,600 Speaker 2: lot of the people they spoke with, his workers spoke 93 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:30,479 Speaker 2: with were Americans the Times of Difference, and there were 94 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:32,480 Speaker 2: just a number of tables with the computers in there, 95 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:34,719 Speaker 2: and there may have been a coffeemaker or tea or 96 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:35,599 Speaker 2: something like that. 97 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 6: But that was it. 98 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:37,720 Speaker 2: It was pretty humble. 99 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:44,040 Speaker 1: But there were some places in Romania where Flavio wouldn't 100 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 1: go with Mark because those places had informants of their own. 101 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 2: I asked to go to a couple of casinos because 102 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:57,120 Speaker 2: I wanted to talk to the people that ran the casinos. 103 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:00,200 Speaker 2: He warned against it. He said, that's probably not a 104 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 2: good idea. He goes, there's prostitutes in front. They're going 105 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:06,160 Speaker 2: to report on who's coming in, what they're driving, all 106 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:09,520 Speaker 2: this other stuff. That's why the prostitutes are arrested. He goes, 107 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 2: if you go there, I'll have to drop you off 108 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 2: and you'll have to walk. 109 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:17,360 Speaker 1: Mark wanted to know how things worked in Romania, how 110 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:20,359 Speaker 1: the corruption went down, how the casinos were connected to 111 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 1: organized crime. So Mark just walked in requested to speak 112 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 1: to the casino's manager. And asked. 113 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:31,160 Speaker 2: I said, hey, I'm just curious how things work here, 114 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:34,400 Speaker 2: And I asked about how you know they paid kickbacks 115 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:37,240 Speaker 2: and things like that. I mean, pretty pretty poored. I 116 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 2: just wanted to know how things worked in Romania. It's 117 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:41,920 Speaker 2: professional curiosity. 118 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:46,039 Speaker 1: But Mark didn't mention to the casino manager that he 119 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 1: was an FBI agent. 120 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 2: No, no, no, that would that'd be sticking your neck 121 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 2: out way too far. 122 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:58,040 Speaker 1: The casino manager answered Mark's questions but kept her cards close. 123 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:01,840 Speaker 2: She's not naming names, doesn't say, hey, this commissioner of 124 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:04,240 Speaker 2: this does that. She's just giving me the mechanics of 125 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 2: how it works. 126 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 1: Mark was gaining a lot of insight that would prove 127 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:14,880 Speaker 1: helpful back in America, and he was also learning more 128 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 1: about Flavio. Mark discovered that Flavio, who'd by then become 129 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 1: a US citizen, wasn't drawn back to Romania only by 130 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:25,680 Speaker 1: his business interests. He had a romantic interest too. 131 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 2: It was funny because his big concern wasn't most of 132 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 2: the time you hear about relationship issues. Ah, she won't 133 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 2: let me do this, she won't let me do that. 134 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 2: For him, it was like, she has to get her 135 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 2: finances and she has to be responsible. You know, he's 136 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 2: sort of like a parent, that's the way he was. Yeah, 137 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 2: strange little guy. 138 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 1: Anyway, after this friendly trip together in Romania, Mark and 139 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 1: Flavia returned to the United States and picked up their 140 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 1: investigation of the Romanian credit card ring. That investigation was 141 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 1: all consuming. Crime doesn't take a day off, right, or 142 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 1: does it. 143 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 2: We didn't like to work on Wednesday. Why because we 144 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:12,240 Speaker 2: worked the weekends and everyone needed days off. So you're like, 145 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 2: Tuesday Wednesday. We'll try to give everyone days off Tuesday Wednesday. 146 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:19,240 Speaker 1: Mark, thanks to his travels and his obsession with his 147 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 1: investigative targets, had learned a lot about Romanians and Romanian culture, 148 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 1: and he was now using that knowledge to inform his investigation. 149 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:31,440 Speaker 2: So it's things like you find a dead burden, you 150 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:33,439 Speaker 2: leave it on their porch on a Wednesday, or on 151 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:37,439 Speaker 2: their bump on a Wednesday, or an unfortunate event will 152 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 2: happen for an informant on a Wednesday, and so they 153 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 2: can say, I'm superstitious, I'm not going to do anything 154 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:45,320 Speaker 2: on a Wednesday, because that's when I got pulled over 155 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 2: by the police and my car got towed. And that's 156 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 2: part of learning, you know, about the culture. 157 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:55,280 Speaker 1: Mark was able to subtly stage direct the Romanians to 158 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:58,680 Speaker 1: align their crime schedule with the FBI work schedule. 159 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:02,000 Speaker 2: What's supers just for them, what's a bad omen, what's 160 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:04,400 Speaker 2: a because even if they don't believe it, someone in 161 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 2: their culture may believe it and they have to respect that. 162 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:08,080 Speaker 2: So we used to work those things in. 163 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:12,560 Speaker 1: By this time, Mark and the FBI had a full 164 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:15,840 Speaker 1: portrait of the criminal organization. They knew how it worked, 165 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:20,680 Speaker 1: and they knew the name of the man in charge. 166 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 2: Petri Drogoy. He recently died. 167 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:28,080 Speaker 1: That was the big boss, Petrew Dragoy. 168 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:34,920 Speaker 2: Petrick Durgoy was probably in his fifties, well mannered, incredibly smart. 169 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 1: At the time, Petrew was facing competition from an upstart, 170 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 1: a younger guy who wanted to take control of the 171 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:46,120 Speaker 1: Las Vegas Crew. His name was Florin, but he went 172 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:50,480 Speaker 1: by Tony in honor of Tony Montana from Scarface. 173 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:54,839 Speaker 2: What is the fascination with that movie in that character 174 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:57,720 Speaker 2: because they want to be some crime kingpin? Did they 175 00:09:57,800 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 2: not watch the end of the movie. 176 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:03,880 Speaker 1: You've probably seen Scarface, it's a classic. But for those 177 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:07,280 Speaker 1: who haven't, Tony Montana, played by a young al Pacino. 178 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:19,280 Speaker 1: That's a very brutal death in the end. Anyway, Mark 179 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 1: had recruited an informant inside the Romanian organization, an older 180 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:25,840 Speaker 1: guy who had become trusted by both the big boss 181 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 1: Petru and Florin or Tony. 182 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:33,000 Speaker 2: But the thing that comes out of this is that 183 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:36,840 Speaker 2: we know Petru has some real stick, very well connected, 184 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 2: very well connected back in Romania. You could cause some 185 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:43,000 Speaker 2: real problems. As I recall you a little bit arrogant, 186 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:45,839 Speaker 2: but you almost have to be to run these crews. 187 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 2: Lack of confidence is death. 188 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:53,320 Speaker 1: As Petru was fending off Florin slash Tony, he somehow 189 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:59,559 Speaker 1: discovered or became suspicious enough to believe that Flavio was 190 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 1: a snit. Mark's insider in the Romanian group attended a 191 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 1: meeting with Petrew and other high ranking members of the organization. 192 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 1: Petrew expressed concerns about Flavio and recommended that he'd be killed. 193 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:22,960 Speaker 1: Mark's informant taking notes, wrote Petrew and others offering five 194 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:25,880 Speaker 1: thousand each for a hit on a guy named Flavio. 195 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:32,719 Speaker 3: But the whole crime organization, they decide to everyone to 196 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 3: put five thousand dollars each one to kill me to 197 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:39,200 Speaker 3: pay somebody to kill me and somebody should my cut 198 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:42,080 Speaker 3: and everything. And I didn't say one word to a FVA. 199 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 3: I didn't go, I didn't try, I didn't claim, I 200 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 3: didn't do anything. One day, I went to them in 201 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 3: the FDA office in Las Vegas, and I said, it's done, 202 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 3: we are finished. 203 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 1: Flavio, concerned about a safety, left Las Vegas and Rich 204 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 1: turned to Europe more after the break. After Flavio heard 205 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:21,240 Speaker 1: about the supposed hit on him from the Romanian crime boss, 206 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 1: he fled the US. Mark, Flavio's FBI handler, thought he 207 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:32,200 Speaker 1: was overreacting, that this was all just talk. 208 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 2: I mean, there was one against I don't want to 209 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:36,360 Speaker 2: talk about me, but. 210 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:40,640 Speaker 1: Okay, Mark has his own experience with this kind of thing. 211 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:44,599 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not unusual. One of the guys that we 212 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:47,720 Speaker 2: arrested that's about the same level as Petru was in 213 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:51,400 Speaker 2: jail and he put out a hit on me. I'm 214 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 2: not worried about it. I mean, I mean, that's how 215 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:56,560 Speaker 2: that's how I'm taking this. I'm not worried about it 216 00:12:56,559 --> 00:13:00,040 Speaker 2: because he could put out a hit on me. But no, 217 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 2: one's not this group, not the Romanians. 218 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:06,800 Speaker 1: In Mark's view, that they were talking about the hit 219 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:12,679 Speaker 1: meant it wasn't serious five thousand bucks. There was no 220 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 1: way Petro was paying someone five thousand bucks to kill Flavio. 221 00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 1: If Petru really wanted someone dead, he could have made 222 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:22,560 Speaker 1: that happen for a lot less money. 223 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:27,559 Speaker 2: From my experience, streak guys, they'll do it for fifty bucks. 224 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:30,680 Speaker 2: They'll do a hit in Romania for fifty bucks. You 225 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 2: know they don't care why. I mean, it's possible so here. 226 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 2: Why would you pay someone wanted someone to do it 227 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 2: just for status. 228 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:44,440 Speaker 1: After Flavio skipped town, his FBI friend Mark never saw 229 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 1: him again. In the end, Flavio's assistance resulted in a 230 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 1: big federal case. The Justice Department in two thousand and 231 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:04,320 Speaker 1: four indicted twenty one people on federal racketeering and fraud charges. 232 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:11,199 Speaker 1: Flavio said he wanted to help America, and he did. 233 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:16,680 Speaker 1: Mark thinks Flavio deserves real credit recognition that he never 234 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 1: received because he didn't want it and because by the 235 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 1: time the arrest had occurred, Flavio was already out of 236 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 1: the country fearing for his life. The FBI's case struck 237 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 1: at the heart of Romanian organized crime in Las Vegas, 238 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 1: bringing down nearly the entire crew that Petro de Roy ran. 239 00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:42,880 Speaker 1: Even Florin the scarface fan was indicted, but the case 240 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:46,880 Speaker 1: didn't stop the fraud in the long term. Prosecuting organized 241 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 1: crime is a bit like playing whack a mole, hit 242 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 1: one another pops up, and the Romanians are still popping up. 243 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:58,440 Speaker 1: In Las Vegas. This is from a local TV news 244 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:00,200 Speaker 1: report from twenty twenty two. 245 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 4: A Romanian citizen has been sentenced to three and a 246 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:06,240 Speaker 4: half years in prison for an ATM skimming fraud scheme 247 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 4: here in Las Vegas. 248 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 1: After the indictments came down, Flavio still felt he wasn't 249 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 1: safe living in America, so he built a new life 250 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:20,239 Speaker 1: in Europe. He spent his time in London and Bucharest 251 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:23,080 Speaker 1: running multiple businesses. He was doing well. 252 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:28,120 Speaker 4: I was living in London, I was living in a finnhouse, 253 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 4: extremely nice in Sohopikabilli go to his sushi Tou Nobu, 254 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:34,760 Speaker 4: all the good life. 255 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 1: The FBI officially closed Flavio's file as a confidential human 256 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 1: source after he left America in two thousand and three, 257 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:48,240 Speaker 1: but internal reports show that Flavio, while in Europe, continued 258 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:51,560 Speaker 1: to have periodic contact with agents through two thousand and nine. 259 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 1: FBI agents can use information from registered informants in reports. 260 00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 1: Unregistered informants, often refer to as hip pocket informants, provide information, 261 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:08,680 Speaker 1: but agents can't attribute information to them. They're like off 262 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:14,920 Speaker 1: the record sources. Flavio became one of these, a hip 263 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 1: pocket informant. So we know from FBI documents that Flavio 264 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 1: continued to provide information to federal agents through two thousand 265 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:28,600 Speaker 1: and nine, for approximately six years after he left Las Vegas. 266 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:33,920 Speaker 1: What we don't know from those documents is what information 267 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 1: that was. But according to Flavio, he was helping agents 268 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:43,760 Speaker 1: with high level cases, including the investigation of a Romanian 269 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 1: named Nikolai Popescu. 270 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:51,280 Speaker 3: He's on the ABA first page, warrants and warnings and everything. 271 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:54,160 Speaker 3: They put a million dollars in is one which I 272 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:56,960 Speaker 3: know him very well, is close to me. They put 273 00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 3: a million dollars out of the reward. 274 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 1: Popescu is one of the FBI's most wanted fugitives. While 275 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:05,600 Speaker 1: his case has not received a lot of publicity in 276 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:09,640 Speaker 1: the United States, it's been big news in Romania. 277 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:13,920 Speaker 4: Chervistis Nicolaesu de Trisi. She changed anion Exandrie der Mont. 278 00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 1: The Justice Department accuses Popescu of running an international internet 279 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:22,439 Speaker 1: fraud scheme. Popescu and his colleagues tricked unsuspecting Americans and 280 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:26,960 Speaker 1: is sending online payments for expensive cars while pocketing millions 281 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 1: of dollars as part of the con. Maybe Flavio was 282 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:36,960 Speaker 1: helping the FBI with these big cases, or maybe he wasn't. 283 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:42,920 Speaker 1: We can't be sure, but here's my understanding of Flavio's 284 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:47,360 Speaker 1: relationship with the FBI. Starting in two thousand and one, 285 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:50,800 Speaker 1: he acts as an informant for about two years. His 286 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 1: information leads to headline grabbing indictments, then, following the murder 287 00:17:56,000 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 1: for higher scare, Flavio's relationship with the bureau becomes informal. 288 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 1: Almost six years of so called hip pocket informat work, 289 00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:08,959 Speaker 1: very much off the books, very much based on friendly 290 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 1: contact with willing and eager federal agents. But now it's 291 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:20,440 Speaker 1: twenty twelve and Flavio gets a call from his old 292 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:24,200 Speaker 1: friend Andy in Los Angeles about a guy from Colombia 293 00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:28,879 Speaker 1: who's looking to purchase millions of dollars in weapons. Flavio 294 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:33,120 Speaker 1: is a seasoned hand for the US government, a longtime cooperator, 295 00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:38,920 Speaker 1: informant and friend, so within minutes of hanging up the 296 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:44,000 Speaker 1: phone with Andy. Flavio makes that call to the CIA. 297 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:50,280 Speaker 3: I said, I should not call it. Via Corsier, Good afternoon, 298 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:54,119 Speaker 3: How can I help you? Like Courtier in the fourth school, 299 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:56,840 Speaker 3: I spoke for fifteen minutes with the lady on the phone, 300 00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:02,320 Speaker 3: and she was kept sending me to American embassy in Boucharist. 301 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 5: If you need to talk in person only, then you 302 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:07,720 Speaker 5: need to go to the empathy. No, I'm not going 303 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:10,960 Speaker 5: there because you know I was working and I know 304 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:13,920 Speaker 5: I'm not trusting people over seeing many other. 305 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 3: Times and I said, no, I want to go there 306 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:19,399 Speaker 3: because everybody knows me over there. And I said, I 307 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:21,119 Speaker 3: don't feel comfortable. I don't want to do that. 308 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:26,359 Speaker 1: The first CIA agent, she hangs up on Flavia. Okay, 309 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 1: well we can't help you. 310 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:28,160 Speaker 5: Thank you the vice. 311 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:35,720 Speaker 3: And after that I receive a call from like minutes later, 312 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:38,560 Speaker 3: I receive a call from a gentleman. He said, oh, hi, 313 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:41,120 Speaker 3: my name is whatever. I don't even remember his name. 314 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:42,440 Speaker 1: As I understand it, I don't. 315 00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:44,080 Speaker 5: I don't think there was anything that the. 316 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:46,880 Speaker 3: Agency could do to a sister facilitate what you're trying 317 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:50,120 Speaker 3: to accomplish. 318 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:53,040 Speaker 1: If you remember, Flavio tells the second CIA agent everything 319 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:56,920 Speaker 1: the call from Andy and Los Angeles, how Andy knows 320 00:19:56,920 --> 00:20:00,160 Speaker 1: this Colombian guy trying to buy weapons, and how and 321 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:03,280 Speaker 1: and the Colombian don't appear to have an ENDS user 322 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:08,200 Speaker 1: certificate valid for Colombia, suggesting that this deal is illegal 323 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 1: and possibly a US national security concern. 324 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:14,120 Speaker 6: I would. 325 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:20,320 Speaker 3: Determination, I would districtive for the US government because all 326 00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:22,639 Speaker 3: the time he said, thank you very much, thank you, 327 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:26,600 Speaker 3: thank you. Okay, okay, I'm so thankful, so grateful, so thankful, 328 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:29,240 Speaker 3: so grateful for everything, which I said, I'm gonna do 329 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:33,160 Speaker 3: for CAA and collect more intel to clarify this one, 330 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:35,480 Speaker 3: because you keep saying we need more information. 331 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:37,800 Speaker 5: If you were force right with all the details, then 332 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:39,359 Speaker 5: we could verify your story. 333 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:41,560 Speaker 6: That's something we might look into and pass to the 334 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:42,399 Speaker 6: right authorities. 335 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:47,719 Speaker 1: That's something we might look into. Not I might look into, 336 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:51,760 Speaker 1: not you might look into, but we might look into. 337 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:58,159 Speaker 3: And my understanding the English, we need more information like 338 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:00,639 Speaker 3: me and you, me and him, we need more information 339 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:02,320 Speaker 3: to collect them. 340 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 1: The agent uses what sometimes called the royal we, referring 341 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:10,960 Speaker 1: to yourself or your institution as we, just as monarchs 342 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:14,560 Speaker 1: of the past did. Any native English speaker would likely 343 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:19,400 Speaker 1: hear the cias we as just referring to them the CIA. 344 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:25,160 Speaker 1: We as in the CIA might look into this. But Flavio, 345 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 1: for whom English is the second language and who has 346 00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:31,760 Speaker 1: a history of cooperating with the US government, says he 347 00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 1: hears the WEI as he and the CIA. 348 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:39,960 Speaker 3: And you just keep saying okay, ok okay. I always 349 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:42,960 Speaker 3: keep past me. You sure you really need those information, 350 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:45,359 Speaker 3: because if you don't need then I have some things 351 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:47,639 Speaker 3: to do in my life. Definitely something that if we 352 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:51,199 Speaker 3: can verify, I would be of interest, saying to be 353 00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:51,920 Speaker 3: aware of. 354 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:59,240 Speaker 1: If we can verify, meaning the way Flavio is hearing it, 355 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:02,439 Speaker 1: if Flavia can verify, he. 356 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:05,919 Speaker 3: Said, okay, okay, okay, I said, okay. I took it 357 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:06,520 Speaker 3: like a year. 358 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:09,440 Speaker 4: We have to protect each other. This is the way 359 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:11,360 Speaker 4: we have to work together, all right. 360 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:13,639 Speaker 5: I totally understand what I want to do. 361 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 2: I will want to send this information to an internal 362 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:19,720 Speaker 2: desk here for inside purposes only so they can look 363 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:23,480 Speaker 2: at it for interest and begin to investigate. 364 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:32,680 Speaker 3: And after that we finished the conversation. I was very 365 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:35,399 Speaker 3: excited about the conversation. If you if you have the 366 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:39,359 Speaker 3: chance to listen to conversations, you you kind of to 367 00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:43,680 Speaker 3: see my excitement in my voice and the drive which 368 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:44,679 Speaker 3: I have to do that. 369 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:50,560 Speaker 1: Flavio takes the call as affirmation an oral contract, to 370 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:54,960 Speaker 1: use Flavio's preferred term, that the CIA wants them to 371 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:57,240 Speaker 1: find out more in the. 372 00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:01,879 Speaker 3: Whole conversation, this gentleman from CIA, he's supposed to say 373 00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:06,920 Speaker 3: one simple sentence, thank you very much for all the information. 374 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:11,679 Speaker 3: Please do not engage in any actions on behalf of 375 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:15,440 Speaker 3: our agency or behalf of the United States, because you're 376 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:18,240 Speaker 3: going to be fully prosecuted under the international laws of 377 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:22,280 Speaker 3: the United States. And do you understand what I'm telling you? 378 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:24,600 Speaker 3: Do you understand He's supposed to check with me because 379 00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:27,200 Speaker 3: he see my drive, he see my excitement, he see 380 00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:32,480 Speaker 3: I don't speak English for me. In my mind that 381 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:36,800 Speaker 3: time was I was proved. If you see all the 382 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:41,000 Speaker 3: documents from a FBI and how professional I was, and 383 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:44,560 Speaker 3: how much honesty and dignity I have and never be 384 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:49,639 Speaker 3: charged or arrested, were interrogate word did something wrong to 385 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:55,040 Speaker 3: become as an informer or a confidential source. I never 386 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 3: do anything wrong. 387 00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:00,639 Speaker 1: I've listened to Flavio's calls with the CIA over and 388 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:05,720 Speaker 1: over and over. It's true that the CIA agent does 389 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 1: not explicitly tell Flavio not to engage with Andy in 390 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:13,920 Speaker 1: the Colombian on the CIA's behalf. And if you take 391 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:18,040 Speaker 1: that we to include Flavio, I can see how it 392 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:23,520 Speaker 1: could be taken as marching orders. But it's also true 393 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 1: that the CIA agent doesn't enter into any kind of 394 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 1: clear cut agreement with Flavio that would make him an 395 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:35,199 Speaker 1: informant or an agent of the CIA. At best, the 396 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:42,320 Speaker 1: calls are ambiguous. The CIA agents are interested in the information. 397 00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:46,440 Speaker 1: That much is clear. The second agent even says he'll 398 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:49,560 Speaker 1: pass the information up the chain of command and someone 399 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:51,719 Speaker 1: may contact Flavio. 400 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:53,400 Speaker 3: But what is. 401 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 1: Flavio's role supposed to be in what happens next. That's 402 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:02,119 Speaker 1: never discussed On the calls. Flavio claims he didn't see 403 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:07,240 Speaker 1: any ambiguity. What he saw was this, the CIA engaged 404 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:10,239 Speaker 1: him to find more information, just as the FBI had 405 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:16,280 Speaker 1: been engaging him for almost a decade, so Flavio pushes 406 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:40,480 Speaker 1: things forward. That's after the break. After making that call 407 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:44,080 Speaker 1: to the CIA, Flavio says he believes that he's been 408 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:48,760 Speaker 1: signed up as an informant or a friend, to use 409 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:52,880 Speaker 1: his preferred term, just as he had been with the FBI. 410 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:56,600 Speaker 5: I was so excited. I said, that's it. I'm going 411 00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:58,399 Speaker 5: to right now. I'm going to prove myself why I am. 412 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:00,359 Speaker 5: I'm going to take you to a different level. A 413 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:05,640 Speaker 5: FBI was nothing. Just like I said. They was asking 414 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:07,800 Speaker 5: me questions and they put the put and I have 415 00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 5: to put the puzzle together for them. They was having 416 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:12,320 Speaker 5: pieces of information. They need somebody to put them together. 417 00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:15,320 Speaker 5: But I said, this one, it's my thing, and I'm 418 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:18,119 Speaker 5: gonna be so good. I'm gonna prepare so much. I 419 00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:21,120 Speaker 5: didn't sleep with Andre four months in the same bed, 420 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:22,840 Speaker 5: four nights four months. 421 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:26,400 Speaker 1: Andre is Flavio's wife. They were newly married at the time. 422 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,679 Speaker 5: What you're doing in the night, I'm reading something you 423 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:32,399 Speaker 5: read one night, you read, two nights you read, but 424 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:34,240 Speaker 5: you never come to the bed. I was coming to 425 00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:36,199 Speaker 5: the bed every night four to five o'clock in the 426 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:39,199 Speaker 5: morning because I know, I knew that time. If I 427 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:41,480 Speaker 5: engage in this thing and I met these real people, 428 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:44,520 Speaker 5: and I don't know an answer to a question which 429 00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:47,600 Speaker 5: you asked me, I'm gonna die there you go, Houston 430 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:50,240 Speaker 5: will have a problem. I said, you know what, better 431 00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:52,399 Speaker 5: before I do something, I start to learn, and I 432 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,480 Speaker 5: took it myself, and I prove myself. 433 00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,439 Speaker 1: Flavio claims he didn't know much at all about the 434 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:02,200 Speaker 1: arms trade before and called him, so he spent the 435 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:06,119 Speaker 1: next month's researching how arms are sold and shipped throughout 436 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:11,400 Speaker 1: the world. Flavio is convincing and explaining it this way, 437 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:15,000 Speaker 1: and his previous work for the FBI over the course 438 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:19,720 Speaker 1: of years certainly suggests he's credible and would have had 439 00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:22,400 Speaker 1: cause to think he might be recruited as some sort 440 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 1: of CIA asset. I want to believe this story. I 441 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:32,159 Speaker 1: think it explains a lot about Flavio's behavior in a 442 00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:41,959 Speaker 1: way that is significantly more satisfying than other possible explanations. 443 00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:49,040 Speaker 1: But I can't get past two problems with this story. 444 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:52,360 Speaker 1: The first problem is that when he calls the CIA, 445 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:57,359 Speaker 1: Flavio specifically mentions that Andy and Andy's Columbian friend do 446 00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 1: not have what's called an end user's certificate. 447 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:02,919 Speaker 6: A mentionize and they said, I ask for the end 448 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:03,919 Speaker 6: user certificate. 449 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:07,120 Speaker 7: You know what the end user certificated, No. 450 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:10,840 Speaker 6: I'm not familiar with him. Oh, and us a certificate 451 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:15,000 Speaker 6: your user or faith or which has. 452 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:17,960 Speaker 1: To prooved to this fact, Flavio claims he doesn't know 453 00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:21,359 Speaker 1: much about international arms deals and needs to do so 454 00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:24,680 Speaker 1: much research about the weapons trade that he stops sharing 455 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,920 Speaker 1: a bed with his new wife. But in the two 456 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:31,879 Speaker 1: short calls with the CIA, he appears to note exactly 457 00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:35,800 Speaker 1: what an end user certificate is and why it's important. 458 00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:41,720 Speaker 1: How would someone with such self proclaimed limited knowledge of 459 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:46,640 Speaker 1: the arms trade know about an end user certificate, let 460 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:51,000 Speaker 1: alone how crucial it is. And the second problem I 461 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:55,360 Speaker 1: have with Flavia's story is this. While Flavio frames his 462 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,880 Speaker 1: initial interactions with the CIA as similar to those with 463 00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:03,240 Speaker 1: the FBI, Flavio's relationship with the bureau started out in 464 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:09,680 Speaker 1: a very formal way. He signed papers, the FBI registered 465 00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:14,840 Speaker 1: him as a confidential human source. It wasn't make a 466 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:19,360 Speaker 1: call in Abracadabra, you're working for us now. There was 467 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:25,560 Speaker 1: a bureaucratic process, and he went through that process. Flavio 468 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:30,479 Speaker 1: didn't go through anything similar with the CIA. He simply 469 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:34,360 Speaker 1: had two phone calls, both on the same day, and 470 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:44,000 Speaker 1: he says he went to work. What Flavio says is this, 471 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:47,680 Speaker 1: when he got off the phone with the CIA, he 472 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:50,640 Speaker 1: believed he'd been tasked to gather more information about Andy 473 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:54,560 Speaker 1: about the Colombian wand and about whoever was willing to 474 00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:59,040 Speaker 1: sell weapons to want. And here's yet another complication in 475 00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:03,479 Speaker 1: Flavio's story. It takes two years from the time that 476 00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:07,480 Speaker 1: Flavio calls the CIA to his very first conversation with 477 00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:14,120 Speaker 1: one the Colombian. Two years. During that time, Flavio doesn't 478 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:18,760 Speaker 1: speak to anyone at the CIA. He says he used 479 00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:21,120 Speaker 1: that time to understand how an arms deal could be 480 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:23,440 Speaker 1: put together, so that he could put one together for 481 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:27,320 Speaker 1: Wan and secretly for the CIA. 482 00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:31,920 Speaker 5: How this whole thing works, because I didn't know anything. 483 00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:33,880 Speaker 5: And the more I was digging, the more things I 484 00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:37,080 Speaker 5: was starting to find. How they prepared, how they procude 485 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:41,120 Speaker 5: the documents, how they do The whole thing is nothing fake. 486 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:44,760 Speaker 5: Everything is real. It's no such a thing, fake a 487 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:49,880 Speaker 5: C E CU, fake paperwork. No, it's real. Everything is real. 488 00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:51,720 Speaker 4: It's not a lie. 489 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:52,360 Speaker 3: It's not a fake. 490 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:53,760 Speaker 5: It's not anything else. 491 00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:03,800 Speaker 1: During that entire hired two year period, Andy, Flavio's friend 492 00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:08,320 Speaker 1: in Los Angeles, and Wan the Colombian are talking. 493 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:11,560 Speaker 6: This is too much playing around. You tell me you're 494 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:13,560 Speaker 6: gonna make it, yes or no. I'll not be the 495 00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:14,440 Speaker 6: end of it. Period. 496 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 1: Andy keeps telling Wan that he can make an arm 497 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:22,800 Speaker 1: steel happen. He knows people, he's got guys, but he 498 00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:25,520 Speaker 1: keeps the laying and it's frustrating. 499 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:25,760 Speaker 3: Wan. 500 00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:31,200 Speaker 6: Let me ask you this. Let me let's let's be 501 00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:34,240 Speaker 6: sending to each other. Why is going on? Are you 502 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:38,760 Speaker 6: gonna comply with me? Man? Don't let me down, please, I'm. 503 00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:39,320 Speaker 3: Not letting you do. 504 00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:48,080 Speaker 1: Andy suggests that he and Wan fly to Italy to 505 00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:53,520 Speaker 1: meet this guy, to meet Flavio. So in May twenty fourteen, 506 00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:58,480 Speaker 1: Jan flies all the way from Colombia to Rome. Andy 507 00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:03,400 Speaker 1: assures his guy f will be there. He gives one 508 00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:07,000 Speaker 1: Flavia's number. It's all going to work out, and he 509 00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:14,080 Speaker 1: tells him. So One calls Flavio over and over and 510 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:18,440 Speaker 1: Flavio isn't answering to scrub you. 511 00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:21,680 Speaker 3: I'm currently unable to take your call. You leave me 512 00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:25,160 Speaker 3: the name, the phone number and the police message and 513 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:27,400 Speaker 3: I'll count at you as soon as possible. 514 00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:32,959 Speaker 7: Thank you, Flavier. Over morning is one. I'll have your 515 00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:37,240 Speaker 7: message on your UK number. What and it says for 516 00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:40,280 Speaker 7: me to call you on this number as well, Flavio, 517 00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:41,080 Speaker 7: give me a call back. 518 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:42,040 Speaker 6: Is now Wednesday? 519 00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:47,280 Speaker 1: Tank care right, One's inn for a big surprise. 520 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:51,520 Speaker 7: You phone call to Flavio or the fourteenth day of 521 00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:54,360 Speaker 7: May twenty fourteen at eight a m. 522 00:32:55,920 --> 00:33:02,480 Speaker 1: Immediately that's in the next episod. This is up in Arms, 523 00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:10,160 Speaker 1: season two of Alphabet Boys. Alphabet Boys is a production 524 00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,960 Speaker 1: of Western Sound and iHeart Podcasts. The show is reported, 525 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:18,200 Speaker 1: written and hosted by me, Trevor Aronson. For more information 526 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:20,960 Speaker 1: about the series or to drop us a tip, head 527 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:25,080 Speaker 1: to our website Alphabet Boys dot xyz. You can contact 528 00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:29,000 Speaker 1: me on Twitter or Instagram at Trevor Aaronson. The show's 529 00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:33,480 Speaker 1: instagram is alphabet Boys dot pod. If you're enjoying Alphabet Boys, 530 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:37,120 Speaker 1: tell your friends about the show. Personal recommendations are the 531 00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:40,640 Speaker 1: best recommendations. And if you want to see an illegal 532 00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:45,560 Speaker 1: arms deal from the inside again, it's Alphabet Boys dot xyz. 533 00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:50,800 Speaker 1: You'll find undercover recordings and documents related to Flavio's case. Finally, 534 00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 1: you can help us ride the algorithms by leaving a 535 00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:56,920 Speaker 1: rating or review on your favorite podcast app that helps 536 00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:59,280 Speaker 1: other people find us. And thanks for listening.