1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to work in progress. Welcome 2 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:20,160 Speaker 1: to this week's work in progress. Friends, it is June, 3 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:24,400 Speaker 1: it is pride ooh, and we have some queer joy 4 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:28,160 Speaker 1: on the show today. Our guest is none other than 5 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:33,280 Speaker 1: Haley Kioko, one of my favorite voices, one of my 6 00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:40,280 Speaker 1: fellow Angel CITYFC lifelong supporters, and one of the coolest 7 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:44,320 Speaker 1: artists that I know. Long before she became a defining 8 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:48,280 Speaker 1: voice for queer storytelling, she was navigating incredibly early career 9 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 1: success as a Disney Channel star, but like so many 10 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 1: of us, fear of scrutiny made her shrink herself even 11 00:00:56,720 --> 00:01:00,280 Speaker 1: with all of those amazing achievements. But that changed she 12 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 1: turned twenty four. Hailey released a song, Girls Like Girls, 13 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:10,319 Speaker 1: that centered on, celebrated and championed queer love, and instead 14 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 1: of judgment, she found an audience that accepted her and 15 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:16,920 Speaker 1: saw themselves in her. And it marked a point where 16 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:20,959 Speaker 1: her identity shifted from something private and complicated to something 17 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:26,560 Speaker 1: public and powerful. And what has followed is an incredibly 18 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:32,680 Speaker 1: beautiful and rare kind of creative evolution. The same story 19 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:35,320 Speaker 1: from the song has grown into a number one New 20 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 1: York Times bestselling novel and now a feature film that 21 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:42,760 Speaker 1: Haley co wrote and directed. What many people don't know 22 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 1: is that it took ten years to get this movie 23 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 1: to the stage of being made. But along the way 24 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 1: she never gave up. She went from feeling pressure to 25 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 1: tone herself down to being absolutely embraced. And I know 26 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 1: my younger self feels healed watching her do that. I 27 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 1: imagine many of yours do too. Let's dive into this 28 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:19,240 Speaker 1: whole creative path with our friend, Hailey Kyoko. I'm so 29 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 1: excited and I'm so happy you're here too. I think 30 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:26,600 Speaker 1: about all of the cool overlap you and I are 31 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:32,559 Speaker 1: lucky enough to have as creatives, as sports fans, as Angelino's, 32 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 1: like all the things. 33 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:35,800 Speaker 2: We do have a lot of comments. 34 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I mean and you even more so than me. 35 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 1: I mean, like, I you know, I've been in the 36 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 1: public sphere since I don't know, a week after my 37 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 1: twenty first birthday. You've been in it since you were 38 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:54,800 Speaker 1: a kid. But I'm actually really curious even before, like 39 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:57,520 Speaker 1: from this vantage point in your life, when you have 40 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 1: so beautifully talked about how all the things you didn't 41 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:03,960 Speaker 1: know were going to line up have and you know, 42 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 1: you look back at your younger self, and you wish 43 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 1: she knew these things. I wonder do you think if 44 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:14,520 Speaker 1: you had this sort of like freaky Friday experience and 45 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:17,399 Speaker 1: you could hang out with your eight year old self today, 46 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 1: would you see yourself in her? Do you think she 47 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 1: would see herself in you? 48 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:23,399 Speaker 2: Totally? 49 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:26,680 Speaker 3: And that's I mean, love for you Friday, But that 50 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:28,680 Speaker 3: would be so. 51 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 4: Odd starting at my younger self. 52 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 3: But I definitely feel like, like most people, my younger 53 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 3: self motivates and drives me of like what I want 54 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 3: in my life and what I've always dreamed of having. 55 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 4: And so I definitely feel like if young. 56 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 3: Haley could know what I was up to, she would 57 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 3: be like, oh my gosh, I'm going to be so cool. 58 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 4: When I grow up. 59 00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 2: And I just had no foresight whatsoever. 60 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 3: I felt very hopeless about being able to truly like 61 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 3: thrive as myself when I was so young. So I 62 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:12,560 Speaker 3: feel like it would be such a cool thing for 63 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 3: her to see. 64 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:20,039 Speaker 1: That's really cool. Where do you feel like your understanding 65 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:22,400 Speaker 1: you know, not just as a kid who wanted to 66 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 1: be creative or make art or who was curious about 67 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 1: the world, but as a queer kid. Do you have 68 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:33,280 Speaker 1: the ability to look back at any moments in your 69 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:34,160 Speaker 1: childhood and go. 70 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:34,880 Speaker 2: Oh, there it was. 71 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 1: That's when I knew, or maybe that's when I should 72 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 1: have known, Like there were signs. 73 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:43,480 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I was very I was. 74 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:47,480 Speaker 3: It's weird because I didn't have the tools or the language, 75 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 3: but I knew who I was from I think my 76 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:54,440 Speaker 3: first grade teacher I was like in love with and 77 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 3: I was six or something whatever, six five or six, 78 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 3: but I but. 79 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 4: I didn't know. 80 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 3: I just knew that how I felt was wrong from 81 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 3: what society told me, and that no one else felt 82 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 3: that way. 83 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 2: So that was like, I think that's why my You. 84 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 3: Know, everyone has their own journey with their sexuality and 85 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:23,040 Speaker 3: their queerness, and mine I carried throughout my adolescence and 86 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 3: was definitely something that I was having to navigate. And 87 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 3: my parents are super supportive now, But it wasn't like 88 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 3: we were having open conversations or reading books with two 89 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 3: moms or like having hey, like life could look like 90 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:42,840 Speaker 3: this or it could look like this, And so I 91 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:48,640 Speaker 3: really was on my own navigating those feelings and knowing 92 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:52,040 Speaker 3: that I was a lesbian and I was only interested 93 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:58,240 Speaker 3: in girls, and it really kind of dominated my experience 94 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:00,360 Speaker 3: through all school. 95 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:05,040 Speaker 4: You know, yeah, school, that's so interesting. 96 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:09,799 Speaker 1: It's like trying to sort of figure it out, even 97 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:14,799 Speaker 1: for myself in adulthood in terms of what I knew 98 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:17,359 Speaker 1: and maybe what I wasn't picking up on as a kid. 99 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 1: It's really hilarious to me, Like the levity comes in, 100 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 1: Like we were just watching clips of all the home 101 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:26,920 Speaker 1: movies with Ash and my family and. 102 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 2: She's like, look at this little lesbian, Like you have always. 103 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:34,479 Speaker 5: Been like a halder now yeah, and it's just like 104 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 5: we were hackling. 105 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 1: And it's so interesting to me because I've also really 106 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:45,919 Speaker 1: had to look back at the lens of queerness in 107 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:48,880 Speaker 1: terms of, of course the portion of it that is 108 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:54,240 Speaker 1: your sexual identity, but queerness is like a total identity also, 109 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:56,920 Speaker 1: you know, the kinds of friendships you build, the way 110 00:06:57,000 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 1: you see the world, the way you're you are inherently 111 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:07,040 Speaker 1: more solutions oriented, creative, inclusive, like and I don't know, 112 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 1: there's all these moments now that I look at and 113 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:13,440 Speaker 1: I go like, oh, were we focusing on my obvious 114 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:19,040 Speaker 1: neurodivergence or was all my addity oddity like difference put 115 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 1: into Oh, her brain's wired differently. I'm like, yeah, and 116 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 1: I'm also queerish you. 117 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 3: All these epiphanies like oh my gosh, yeah, yeah, I mean, 118 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 3: I mean, I feel like so many people can resonate 119 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 3: with your experience, and so many people can probably resonate 120 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 3: with mine. And I was very overt, like my friends 121 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 3: called me Mowgli and I want to wear a shirt 122 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 3: and I refuse to wear a dress, and I was 123 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 3: just very. 124 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 2: Gay. 125 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 1: You were very Bermuda shorts. 126 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:54,040 Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, so. 127 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't have like oh, but I think my 128 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 3: experience was more like I was experiencing it in real time, and. 129 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 2: I was like, how do I hide myself? How do 130 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 2: I make myself smaller? 131 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 3: How do I fit myself in this box? And if 132 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 3: I want to be successful in this industry? You know, 133 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:18,920 Speaker 3: when I was young, there was like Ellen, Ellen DeGeneres, 134 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:23,080 Speaker 3: and maybe maybe a handful of people that were like 135 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 3: in the public eye. I remember when the I Forget, 136 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:28,240 Speaker 3: it was like a magazine cover and. 137 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 2: It was like I'm gay. 138 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 3: It was like Ellen's face or something, and I was 139 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:34,080 Speaker 3: just like, is this what my life is. 140 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 4: Going to be? 141 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:40,480 Speaker 3: And I remember being terrified of just that vulnerable feeling 142 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 3: that was bringing inside of me, like what does it 143 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 3: look like in pop culture? And in the mainstream when 144 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:50,080 Speaker 3: you're wanting to really be yourself and be an artist 145 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:51,320 Speaker 3: and express yourself. 146 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, and can you do that safely? I mean, Ellen 147 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:56,440 Speaker 1: was one of the most famous comedians in the world 148 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:57,440 Speaker 1: and she lost her job. 149 00:08:58,080 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 4: Yeah. 150 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 1: I think people forget that, Like that's what we grew 151 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:04,400 Speaker 1: up with. And it's weird even you know, I don't 152 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:06,480 Speaker 1: know you were saying, your journey with your parents has 153 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 1: become pretty great. Like even for my mom, she was 154 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:15,840 Speaker 1: sort of like, oh, I remember girls you had crushes 155 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:19,439 Speaker 1: on and boys you had crushes on, But like our 156 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:25,319 Speaker 1: community was so gay. Were you just never around enough lesbians? 157 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 1: Like did we raise you around mostly gay men? And 158 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:31,319 Speaker 1: you never saw yourself? And that's like the sweetest question 159 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:33,560 Speaker 1: that your mom, who's in her late seventies can ask 160 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 1: you in your early forties. But it was kind of 161 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:41,080 Speaker 1: interesting because I realized unlike our friend group now, I 162 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:44,440 Speaker 1: was like, oh, yeah, you basically had like my mom's 163 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 1: best friend from childhood, Linda, who had like a high 164 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 1: and tight military buzz cut and rode a Harley or 165 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 1: like Ellen, I didn't see I didn't see queer girls 166 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 1: like us. 167 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 4: You didn't see the whole spectrum. Yeah, the whole, right though. 168 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:02,960 Speaker 1: I didn't really see myself like necessarily anywhere. 169 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:05,199 Speaker 2: And then my job. 170 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:06,839 Speaker 1: Was to be an actor, so I just played other 171 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 1: people all the time anyway. And that's a real mind 172 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 1: fuck for another day, totally. But I wonder for you, 173 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:17,959 Speaker 1: like knowing so early rather than going, oh, something about 174 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:20,560 Speaker 1: me is a little different, you were like, this is 175 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 1: the thing about me that's different, Like I'm in love 176 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:29,240 Speaker 1: with her. How was the experience in terms of figuring 177 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:32,120 Speaker 1: out how to talk about that? Because you were also 178 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 1: raised in la by really artistic parents, I think we 179 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:39,120 Speaker 1: were much luckier than kids who had to figure this 180 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:44,920 Speaker 1: out in small town Iowa. But even with a supportive family, 181 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:48,080 Speaker 1: you're talking about how you felt so much pressure to hide. 182 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 1: Do you think that was just that inherent societal behavior 183 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:55,640 Speaker 1: that you saw that made you feel like you wouldn't 184 00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:56,320 Speaker 1: be so safe? 185 00:10:57,080 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 2: Totally? 186 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 3: I mean, I think it's weird to look back at 187 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:07,120 Speaker 3: how loud society is and the narratives that society feeds you, 188 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:10,000 Speaker 3: and you know, like I said, even going back to 189 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:12,360 Speaker 3: like children's books and even going back to going to 190 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 3: school and not seeing you know, two moms picking up 191 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:20,680 Speaker 3: a kid, or like just presentation as a whole, whether 192 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 3: you grow up in La or Iowa, obviously they're. 193 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:25,359 Speaker 4: Very different experiences. 194 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:28,960 Speaker 2: The fact is is most cultures. 195 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:34,839 Speaker 3: Are not accepting of queer and way and religions and 196 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 3: the list goes on, and so that we all have 197 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:42,040 Speaker 3: something in common where you're having to navigate wanting to 198 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 3: be your authentic self, and you deserve to be your 199 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:48,680 Speaker 3: authentic self, and it's like, how do I do that where, 200 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:50,800 Speaker 3: especially when you're a kid and you have to live 201 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 3: at home or you are not able to find a 202 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 3: safe space as your a and survival because you need 203 00:11:57,480 --> 00:12:02,040 Speaker 3: a roof over your head and you're just trying to 204 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 3: get through. So then you can eventually find your people 205 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 3: and then hopefully in your twenties and thirties. But obviously 206 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:12,840 Speaker 3: my goal in creating art and books and directing. 207 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:15,080 Speaker 2: Is for people to not have. 208 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 4: To wait for their twenties or thirties or forties. 209 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:22,080 Speaker 3: Yes, their authentic selves and know that there's so many 210 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:24,640 Speaker 3: people out there, even if you're not surrounded by them 211 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:28,400 Speaker 3: specifically at your school, you know, for your community, and 212 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:30,840 Speaker 3: so that's really important to me. 213 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:35,319 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's so it is so crucial because 214 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 1: to your point, like, no kid is going to read 215 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:42,199 Speaker 1: the animated book about the two gay penguin dads and 216 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 1: be like, Oh, this book made me gay. But a 217 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:47,160 Speaker 1: little gay kid will read that book and go, oh, 218 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:50,439 Speaker 1: that's the family I'm going to have someday. And that's 219 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:54,640 Speaker 1: the difference, Like when you talk about inclusion or representation, 220 00:12:55,679 --> 00:13:01,360 Speaker 1: and we do deserve more of that. Maybe it wouldn't 221 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:06,200 Speaker 1: take us so long to figure things out, not just 222 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 1: as individuals, but I think as a society, if everyone 223 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:15,600 Speaker 1: could just see themselves somewhere and that wasn't for some 224 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:19,199 Speaker 1: reason threatening to people who've literally always had every piece 225 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 1: of media be about them. 226 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:24,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's so weird. Our existence is. 227 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:27,760 Speaker 3: Not taking anything away from other people's existence, and they 228 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:32,360 Speaker 3: really fascinating that that's become a narrative. 229 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll be back in just a minute after a 230 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:45,840 Speaker 1: few words from our favorite sponsors. I remember when Girls 231 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:50,280 Speaker 1: Like Girls came out. I remember being like girl, I 232 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 1: was like, this is so good, and thinking about you 233 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 1: being twenty four, having come from the Disney Channel. I mean, 234 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:04,600 Speaker 1: it's success, sure, but it's also pressure to be that 235 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 1: sort of perfect kid. What was it like like the 236 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:13,080 Speaker 1: night before the song was going to hit, were you excited, 237 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:16,600 Speaker 1: were you scared? Did you like go to sleep early? 238 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 1: Did you sleep at all? Like, I'm so curious how 239 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 1: you felt before it was out in the world. 240 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 3: Well it was well to back back up, my Disney 241 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 3: experience is very different from other people because my Disney experience, 242 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 3: I had a short pixie cut, I looked like a homosexual, 243 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 3: and I was on Wizards for a short period and 244 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:40,480 Speaker 3: I fatically looked gay. 245 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 2: So I had a. 246 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:45,640 Speaker 3: Very different experience from other people who like grew up 247 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 3: on Disney Fair Fair Fair. But the night before girls 248 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 3: like girls. It was a really interesting experience, uh, because 249 00:14:55,280 --> 00:15:00,280 Speaker 3: I really struggled finding an outlet to support them music 250 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 3: video and premiere and at the time, like it was 251 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:05,200 Speaker 3: always about who's going to premiere the music video? 252 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:07,800 Speaker 4: You know, who's going to premiere on YouTube? Is it Nylon? 253 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 4: Is it? 254 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:08,240 Speaker 3: This? 255 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 4: Is it that? 256 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:14,080 Speaker 2: And nobody raised theirs And I. 257 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 3: Had just gone through weeks of just rejection and people 258 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 3: being like, this is you know, the classic word which 259 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 3: I absolutely hate in referencing lesbian's the word rescue, like, 260 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 3: you know. 261 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:28,440 Speaker 2: This is too this is too risque, this. 262 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:30,560 Speaker 3: Is We're not you know, comfortable with this, And so 263 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 3: the same person who rose their hand up was AOL. 264 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:39,440 Speaker 2: Shut up. 265 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 3: I didn't even know AOL was around still, so it 266 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:48,760 Speaker 3: was like hey, So my team was like hey, so. 267 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:51,920 Speaker 2: We got a premiere and it's AOL was like. 268 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 3: Al still exist about I was like al dot com 269 00:15:58,440 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 3: and they were like. 270 00:15:59,040 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 4: Yes, no. 271 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:04,600 Speaker 2: I was like, well iconic great, so funny enough. 272 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 3: They premiered the music video and the night before I 273 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:11,920 Speaker 3: was really scared. I was really nervous, and I didn't 274 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 3: put myself in the music video just as like, because 275 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 3: I just wasn't ready to like fully put myself out there. 276 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:21,840 Speaker 3: I was just kind of putting myself out there with 277 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 3: the song, and I was really nervous, honestly. And at 278 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 3: that time, I had like nine thousand subscribers on YouTube 279 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 3: and it was just kind of my last hurrah and 280 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:39,360 Speaker 3: I put it out and yeah, it turned into something 281 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 3: I never thought it would. 282 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 4: Honestly. 283 00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 2: I was so terrified. 284 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:46,920 Speaker 3: Was so terrified, especially because I wasn't feeling the support 285 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 3: from you my industry, and I think that that's kind 286 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:51,920 Speaker 3: of like a through line. 287 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:54,680 Speaker 4: Obviously I've had very supportive people. 288 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:59,760 Speaker 3: I've had other yesses, but most of my experience in 289 00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 3: my career, everything that I've created, it's made people feel 290 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:08,480 Speaker 3: uncomfortable or it hasn't been done before, or they're not sure, 291 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:12,280 Speaker 3: and like that has just been like my life, my 292 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:16,920 Speaker 3: journey as a musician, and so I've rarely become comfortable 293 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 3: with that response because that's been my journey from day one. 294 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:27,240 Speaker 1: How do you think you learned to settle into that though? 295 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 1: Like when the response, even in success, is laden with 296 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:38,760 Speaker 1: so much rejection, how do you learn to navigate that? 297 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 1: Like what do you trust in yourself to push through 298 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:44,160 Speaker 1: until the actual yes comes? 299 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:49,040 Speaker 3: Well? I mean that's really layered into the movie experience 300 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:51,840 Speaker 3: that I had, where basically, like I did the music 301 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:57,080 Speaker 3: video in twenty fifteen, the reaction obviously went viral and 302 00:17:57,359 --> 00:18:00,240 Speaker 3: was really wonderful, and then I was like, Okay, maybe 303 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:03,280 Speaker 3: I can you know, direct a movie and tell the story. 304 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:08,760 Speaker 3: And that started a ten year journey of nos and 305 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 3: there were so many heartbreaks and I battled with my 306 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:16,160 Speaker 3: mental health a lot because I felt, I think when 307 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:21,320 Speaker 3: you get so many no's, yeah, you're feeling crazy and 308 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:24,959 Speaker 3: you're feeling very alone on this island and you're like 309 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:26,640 Speaker 3: am I crazy? 310 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 4: Like am I seeing something? 311 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:33,080 Speaker 3: Like you're trying to be smart, like Okay, if everyone's 312 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:35,360 Speaker 3: saying no, like what am I missing here? 313 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:35,639 Speaker 4: You know? 314 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:36,240 Speaker 1: Is it me? 315 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:38,600 Speaker 4: Or is it just I haven't found the right yes, 316 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 4: And so. 317 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 2: You start to go a little nuts. 318 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:45,159 Speaker 3: And so my journey trying to get this movie made 319 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 3: did make me a little nut. So because I think, 320 00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:53,320 Speaker 3: to answer your question, the thing that grounded me and 321 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:57,080 Speaker 3: propelled me were the fans. Where if I can't do this, 322 00:18:57,560 --> 00:18:58,960 Speaker 3: then no one else is going to be able to 323 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:02,440 Speaker 3: do this, So I have to do this, and I 324 00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:05,679 Speaker 3: that was like literally my anger, Like every time I 325 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:08,359 Speaker 3: wanted to give up, every time I had to restart 326 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 3: the process and find different producers and you know, rethink everything. 327 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:16,120 Speaker 3: I had to be like if I give up, then 328 00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:20,719 Speaker 3: we don't get this, yeah, and period. And so that 329 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:25,200 Speaker 3: was kind of you know, my fans were without them knowing, 330 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:28,639 Speaker 3: they were the motivation because I've really I'm not a 331 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:33,199 Speaker 3: religious person, but spiritually I've felt that my purpose in 332 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:37,080 Speaker 3: life has been to get this story made and put 333 00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:41,400 Speaker 3: on the big screens. Like I've really truly believed that 334 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:45,040 Speaker 3: that has been that, Like, I'm going to do more, 335 00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 3: but that is like number one, the most important thing 336 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:49,400 Speaker 3: for me to do. 337 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:55,479 Speaker 5: Yeah, well, what does that feel like knowing this is 338 00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:58,200 Speaker 5: happening because you know, for our friends at home, if 339 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:03,680 Speaker 5: they don't know the full journey, you expanded from the song, 340 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:06,720 Speaker 5: like from this core idea, you expanded girls like girls 341 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:10,960 Speaker 5: into casual brag on your behalf. 342 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:13,280 Speaker 1: Here a New York Times bestselling novel. 343 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:17,640 Speaker 2: And you know, I'm just like she did it. 344 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:22,000 Speaker 1: And that is such a huge feat. And we are 345 00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:24,640 Speaker 1: in a moment where in our world, you know, our 346 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:29,960 Speaker 1: creative world, our industry, people want existing IP, they want 347 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 1: an adaptation. So was writing the novel partially a stepping 348 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 1: stone to get to making the film? Or did you 349 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 1: figure like, if I write the novel, then it's IP, 350 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:46,359 Speaker 1: and then also I essentially just get to adapt my 351 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 1: own novel into my movie. 352 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:52,359 Speaker 4: The novel play was my hail Mary. 353 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:57,359 Speaker 3: It was the movie was not getting made, it was 354 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 3: not going anywhere, and I was like, you know, I've 355 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:04,879 Speaker 3: had to make so many sacrifices just even developing the 356 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:08,240 Speaker 3: screenplay and the idea. Yeah, it's like, you know what, 357 00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:11,639 Speaker 3: I'm just going to write my twenty million dollar version 358 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:16,720 Speaker 3: of the story, and if the movie never gets made, 359 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:21,359 Speaker 3: at least this book will exist in people's libraries or yeah, kids, 360 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:22,560 Speaker 3: will have access to. 361 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 4: The audiobook and like that was like my Hail Mary. 362 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:28,440 Speaker 2: Of like, at least this will exist. 363 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 3: And maybe if it is successful, that will help propel 364 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:36,800 Speaker 3: the conversation forward to making the movie. Because I was saying, 365 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:39,880 Speaker 3: you know, you know, Taylor Jenkins read all these incredible 366 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:41,480 Speaker 3: writers getting. 367 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 2: There, like you said, like Hollywood loves an ip. So 368 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:48,200 Speaker 2: it's like, well, I'm gonna I'm just gonna. 369 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:53,359 Speaker 3: Pivot again and try this and see if this works. 370 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:56,200 Speaker 3: And if it doesn't, at least I've completed my mission, 371 00:21:56,240 --> 00:22:00,560 Speaker 3: which is to tell a hopeful queer story and you know, 372 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:04,679 Speaker 3: sharing my most authentic self through that. And so I 373 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:08,960 Speaker 3: released the book in twenty twenty three and it became 374 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 3: a New York Times bestseller and it led to my 375 00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:16,160 Speaker 3: green light at the end of that year. 376 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:20,160 Speaker 2: It's so good, never give up. 377 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:24,640 Speaker 3: Never if the door is not opening, you pivot and 378 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:26,399 Speaker 3: you build in the window. 379 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, So that's kind of what the book was. 380 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:34,000 Speaker 1: It's also not lost on me that as an artist, 381 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:37,200 Speaker 1: like the amount of rejection we deal with in general, 382 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:40,960 Speaker 1: and by the way, like that's being lucky enough to 383 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:43,359 Speaker 1: be artists to pay our bills making art, Like what 384 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:45,000 Speaker 1: that's already insane. 385 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:45,879 Speaker 2: Which is already so hard. 386 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:51,040 Speaker 1: It's already so hard, and I think about you know, 387 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:54,679 Speaker 1: it's like people get to know you and they go like, oh, 388 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:57,200 Speaker 1: you're a little neurotic, or like, wow, you really are 389 00:22:57,280 --> 00:22:58,080 Speaker 1: mean to yourself. 390 00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:00,119 Speaker 2: You're like, do you see what I'm all? 391 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:03,040 Speaker 1: My existence is in the world, like I always say, 392 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:05,240 Speaker 1: and maybe this is just to get ahead of the 393 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:07,680 Speaker 1: hospital that is the internet. But I'm like, oh, nobody's 394 00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:10,439 Speaker 1: meaner to me than me, right, Like, you don't have 395 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:11,560 Speaker 1: to try so hard. 396 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:13,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, we're so hard on ourselves. 397 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 1: I already got it. I got that on lock. To 398 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 1: do what you've done requires so much steadfastness, such a 399 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:28,200 Speaker 1: willingness to continue through doubt, through the things that are 400 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:33,560 Speaker 1: so hard. So what were some of the things you 401 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:37,000 Speaker 1: were doing to bring yourself joy? I mean casual? You 402 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 1: obviously fell madly in love with the right person, so 403 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:43,440 Speaker 1: like that's a gorgeous bonus of the last ten year journey. 404 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:46,600 Speaker 4: But like, yeah, were you were you? 405 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:48,400 Speaker 1: Like, Okay, if I do it date night a week 406 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:51,679 Speaker 1: with her, that'll keep my head on straight. Where you like, 407 00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:53,880 Speaker 1: I gotta I gotta go outside and get the sun 408 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:56,000 Speaker 1: on my face. Within ten minutes of waking up. Are 409 00:23:56,040 --> 00:24:00,720 Speaker 1: you like a walker? What's your thing to like yourself 410 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 1: in joy while you're working so hard at something. 411 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 3: I love nature, so I think, you know, my mom 412 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:10,080 Speaker 3: always says change is as good as a rest, So 413 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:13,440 Speaker 3: even if you can't just recline, just changing your environment 414 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:19,359 Speaker 3: as possible, and so that very much resonates with me. 415 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:22,879 Speaker 3: So like going for walks, feeling the sun on my face. 416 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:26,359 Speaker 3: There were periods of time trying to get this movie 417 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 3: made where I had so much anxiety. 418 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:30,080 Speaker 4: I was so depressed. 419 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:33,280 Speaker 3: And you know, going to the ocean if you have 420 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:36,399 Speaker 3: access to water, or even if you don't have access 421 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:38,560 Speaker 3: to water, like taking a bath. I never was a 422 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 3: bath person, but I became a bath person during the 423 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:45,480 Speaker 3: process of trying to get this film made. 424 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:48,240 Speaker 4: And so those are like really nice resets. 425 00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:51,639 Speaker 3: And you know, obviously i've met back in twenty eighteen, 426 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,400 Speaker 3: I was three years into that process, you know. Yeah, 427 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:58,399 Speaker 3: so I also it's hard because it's like, Okay, I 428 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:00,520 Speaker 3: want to direct a movie and make a movie, but 429 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:02,199 Speaker 3: how do you even do that? 430 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:06,040 Speaker 4: And so you're trying to just keep your trying to continue. 431 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:06,240 Speaker 2: To move forward. 432 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:08,760 Speaker 3: And so in twenty eighteen, I released my first album, 433 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:11,399 Speaker 3: and I went on tour and I just tried to 434 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:14,280 Speaker 3: like keep myself out there while I was coming with 435 00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:18,960 Speaker 3: you know, legal stuff and figuring out how who was 436 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:21,359 Speaker 3: going to pay for it, how who was going to 437 00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:24,359 Speaker 3: like support this film and so yeah, it's just a 438 00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:27,040 Speaker 3: lot of juggling. But for me, it's just you know, 439 00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:32,240 Speaker 3: the sun on my face about journaling is huge for 440 00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:34,480 Speaker 3: my mental health and therapy. 441 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:37,160 Speaker 4: My therapist got me through it. 442 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:40,919 Speaker 1: You and me both sister, Like what I would do 443 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:42,879 Speaker 1: without my therapist? I do not know. 444 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:46,199 Speaker 4: Yeah, what you know. 445 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:50,040 Speaker 1: Obviously it's a big journey and people only see a 446 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:54,720 Speaker 1: portion of it. Like I love I referenced it when 447 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:57,440 Speaker 1: you first jumped on the zoom, but it's like all 448 00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:00,560 Speaker 1: the fans started calling you lesbian Jesus. I know we 449 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:03,280 Speaker 1: loved that. I know you've said you loved it, Like, 450 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:07,040 Speaker 1: what were some of those joyful moments along the way, 451 00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:10,240 Speaker 1: like you said that kept you going? And can you 452 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:12,720 Speaker 1: give us the backstory on the nickname for the folks 453 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 1: who are just learning it today? 454 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:18,040 Speaker 3: Yes, well, I was on we I was on a 455 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:21,920 Speaker 3: tour in twenty eighteen and we called it twenty eighteen. 456 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:24,800 Speaker 4: And at one of my shows. I forget what city. 457 00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:27,880 Speaker 3: A fan had called me lesbian Jesus, and I had 458 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:31,639 Speaker 3: thought that was like, you know, a phrase that people 459 00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 3: call one another or like like. 460 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:36,800 Speaker 2: No cap or like you know six seven, like you know. 461 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:39,959 Speaker 2: I just was like, you're like, oh, it's in the lexicon. 462 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:42,800 Speaker 3: And I had finished my show and I'd gone online, 463 00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:46,200 Speaker 3: and as the tour was progressing, I realized they were 464 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:49,359 Speaker 3: just calling me lesbian Jesus. So I don't know who 465 00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:53,600 Speaker 3: the fan is that created it, but congrats to them 466 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:57,439 Speaker 3: because it has just picked up and it's something that 467 00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:00,480 Speaker 3: my fans love to call me. And I'm very honored 468 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:04,080 Speaker 3: because I'm very much a lesbian and you know, I've 469 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:07,760 Speaker 3: always been. When I was younger, I was so afraid 470 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:11,240 Speaker 3: of the word lesbian. There was such a negative connotation 471 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 3: to it through just what people told me. 472 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:16,320 Speaker 4: And taught me. 473 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:19,520 Speaker 3: And so it's so awesome to get to like have 474 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 3: a nickname that celebrates joy and like positivity as a lesbian. 475 00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:28,679 Speaker 3: And so that's been a really cool like reclaiming of 476 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:32,520 Speaker 3: the word totally. But yeah, I mean what's got me 477 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:35,040 Speaker 3: through is just like, you know, being able to still 478 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:38,000 Speaker 3: release music. And I think as I get older in 479 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:41,920 Speaker 3: the industry. You realize, like being a creative, just being 480 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:45,639 Speaker 3: able to stay in the game is success because to 481 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:47,879 Speaker 3: be able to keep a roof over your head to 482 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:53,960 Speaker 3: create art and express yourself is the challenge. And so 483 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 3: to be able to be in this for you know, 484 00:27:56,840 --> 00:28:03,280 Speaker 3: over fifteen fifteen years, it's you know, I'm just really 485 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:07,120 Speaker 3: happy that I exist and I'm here to finally see 486 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:09,080 Speaker 3: this movie go. 487 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:11,640 Speaker 2: Into theaters totally like. 488 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:15,639 Speaker 3: I've in like absolute shock that we did it and 489 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:18,520 Speaker 3: that it's here and that I'm doing a podcast with 490 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:23,359 Speaker 3: you and talking about this process. It's so surreal to 491 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,720 Speaker 3: be on the precipice of the other side. 492 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:29,720 Speaker 1: Yes, well, and to have a movie in the can 493 00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:31,840 Speaker 1: after ten years of trying to get it. 494 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:35,320 Speaker 3: Made, which nobody understands how hard a movie is. Like 495 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,080 Speaker 3: now I'll like watch a bad movie and I'll be like, 496 00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:41,760 Speaker 3: congrats to everyone involved, but you're like, wow, guys, you 497 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 3: did something, Like so it's a miracle. It's a miracle. 498 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:49,080 Speaker 3: Every single film that you see that exists out there 499 00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:51,920 Speaker 3: is a miracle, and a lot of people worked really 500 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:53,720 Speaker 3: hard to have it exist. 501 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:58,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, I really feel that. And now a word from 502 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:10,560 Speaker 1: our wonderful sponsors, do you think that creative work in 503 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:14,800 Speaker 1: general feels different to you now, like it, it feels 504 00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:19,120 Speaker 1: more exciting, more liberated, like where are you as you 505 00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:21,600 Speaker 1: were in this precipice moment as a creator? 506 00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:27,000 Speaker 3: I think being able to direct this film and really 507 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:33,080 Speaker 3: find my home as a creative has been really centering 508 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:38,280 Speaker 3: for me and gratifying because I've always written music, you know, 509 00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:41,000 Speaker 3: I did musical theater growing up. I've always on like 510 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:44,480 Speaker 3: a little bit of everything, and to really go, oh 511 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:46,120 Speaker 3: my gosh, I've always been a director. 512 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:48,160 Speaker 4: I've always been a storyteller. 513 00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:51,360 Speaker 3: Like this, this is what I'm good at. I'm good 514 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:56,720 Speaker 3: at building worlds and being a part of that the 515 00:29:56,760 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 3: decision making every step of the way. That for myself 516 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:05,120 Speaker 3: has been so gratifying and like has been. 517 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:08,640 Speaker 2: Worth the absolute treacherous. 518 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 4: Mountains that I went through to get the film to. 519 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:17,240 Speaker 3: Exist, And that feels very freeing for me because music 520 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:22,000 Speaker 3: I love, but there was only so much I could do, 521 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:25,680 Speaker 3: and specifically, like you know, I found my fans through 522 00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:28,720 Speaker 3: music videos and directing my music videos. But then my 523 00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:31,760 Speaker 3: music videos I didn't have financing for anymore, and so 524 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,160 Speaker 3: then I couldn't make music videos, and then I couldn't 525 00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:37,560 Speaker 3: do the things that I love to do anymore. Yeah, 526 00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:40,160 Speaker 3: and so that was really hard for me. And I 527 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:45,200 Speaker 3: think when things get so hard for so long, it 528 00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:46,880 Speaker 3: kind of can suck the fun out. 529 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:48,160 Speaker 4: And so it's been. 530 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:52,000 Speaker 3: Really beautiful to direct this film and be able to 531 00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:55,880 Speaker 3: kind of almost come back to music and writing this 532 00:30:56,040 --> 00:31:00,440 Speaker 3: Inspired By album after the fact I finished the film 533 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:04,480 Speaker 3: when in the studio, wrote this inspired By album through 534 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:09,320 Speaker 3: the lens of Cooley and Sonya are protagonists, and I 535 00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:14,720 Speaker 3: got to have fun and I was like, oh my gosh. 536 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:14,560 Speaker 4: I love this feeling again. 537 00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:17,239 Speaker 3: And so it was so fun that I kind of 538 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:21,080 Speaker 3: kind of lost the flame with music, went into the 539 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:24,720 Speaker 3: directing world, wrote, you know, wrote and directed the movie, 540 00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:28,560 Speaker 3: and then kind of went back to music and I 541 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:33,920 Speaker 3: got to find that joy again. And I think in anything, 542 00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:38,320 Speaker 3: people find joy when they are supported, like you're when 543 00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:41,040 Speaker 3: you don't feel supported, when you don't have a community 544 00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:44,320 Speaker 3: or a safe space to be yourself and to do 545 00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:47,200 Speaker 3: the things that you want to do. It affects your 546 00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:50,200 Speaker 3: mental health, It just does. And that was a big 547 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:55,720 Speaker 3: example of how that can truly affect your like spirit 548 00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:59,200 Speaker 3: and drive. So I've never been more proud of this 549 00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:02,880 Speaker 3: album and album and it's really nice to feel like 550 00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:06,080 Speaker 3: I'm like returning. 551 00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:10,040 Speaker 5: I'm the artemist returning home to you've done it the Phoenix. 552 00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:14,800 Speaker 2: Yes, I love it. 553 00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:16,560 Speaker 1: Oh my god, did you just sob for a week 554 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:19,280 Speaker 1: straight like I did? I couldn't get my together. 555 00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:21,880 Speaker 2: I loved watching It's so cool. I love space. 556 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:25,080 Speaker 4: I do like space movies and stuff, but I just 557 00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:25,640 Speaker 4: love space. 558 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,240 Speaker 1: No, it's truly my favorite thing. 559 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:29,600 Speaker 4: Like it's so fun. 560 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:33,000 Speaker 3: I would personally never go, but I'm happy for people 561 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:35,320 Speaker 3: who get to go and experience it. 562 00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:38,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, I I might. 563 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:43,960 Speaker 2: A lot too. I might next week. 564 00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:46,840 Speaker 1: But here's the thing I don't want to do. I 565 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:50,240 Speaker 1: mean a I couldn't, but be like, I don't want 566 00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:55,560 Speaker 1: to do like oligarchy space tourism. That's not my vibe. 567 00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:58,400 Speaker 4: Okay, Like I don't want to go up. 568 00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:01,120 Speaker 1: In the penis pod and come down and I'm not interested. 569 00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:04,080 Speaker 2: You're trying to like I would do. 570 00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:08,280 Speaker 1: The week. I would be like, if there's something I 571 00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:13,000 Speaker 1: could do and assist Malsa. 572 00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:13,080 Speaker 2: Like send me sure? 573 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:13,440 Speaker 4: Wow? 574 00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:15,240 Speaker 2: What could I do? Literally? 575 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,680 Speaker 1: Nothing? But I would if they asked, you know, like 576 00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:21,400 Speaker 1: I know you need like a poetic journalist to go 577 00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:22,080 Speaker 1: to space with you. 578 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:22,840 Speaker 2: Okay, I'll go. 579 00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:27,240 Speaker 1: I'll write down everything everyone says and then write something 580 00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:29,080 Speaker 1: beautiful for you, like I don't know. I love that, 581 00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:33,520 Speaker 1: but it would have to be meaningful, like to just 582 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:38,560 Speaker 1: the tourism aspect I don't get. But I oh, man, 583 00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:42,560 Speaker 1: I mean, I just wept every day watching that coverage. 584 00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:43,760 Speaker 1: I loved it so much. 585 00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:47,280 Speaker 3: I think it just goes back to like, no matter 586 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:51,000 Speaker 3: what you do or what your passions are, we all 587 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:54,160 Speaker 3: want to find something meaningful, and we all, if we're 588 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:56,840 Speaker 3: going to invest our time and energy into something, we 589 00:33:56,920 --> 00:34:03,800 Speaker 3: want to help the world and propel the conversation and yeah, 590 00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:10,160 Speaker 3: ity forward, you know, and yeah, that's really important to recognize. 591 00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:15,640 Speaker 1: Totally. I love it. I've never had a contributor to 592 00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:20,240 Speaker 1: a prep document for an interviewee before, but I did, 593 00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:25,160 Speaker 1: thankfully for our off camera life. I did get a 594 00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:28,080 Speaker 1: question from your beloved about your movie. 595 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:30,200 Speaker 2: She said she can't. 596 00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:34,080 Speaker 1: She said she can't, she can't wait for the world 597 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:37,920 Speaker 1: to see it. Is so proud of you and also 598 00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:40,840 Speaker 1: wants to know why there was not a character named 599 00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:41,720 Speaker 1: Becca in the film. 600 00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:45,279 Speaker 4: She's in the other room. 601 00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:46,399 Speaker 2: I want to go grab her. 602 00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:49,160 Speaker 1: Like troll. 603 00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:53,120 Speaker 3: We have this constant thing where she'll like like I'll 604 00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:55,360 Speaker 3: like test her to see if she can act, you know, 605 00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:58,840 Speaker 3: and like we'll do like a little audition skits and stuff, 606 00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:02,799 Speaker 3: and yeah, she's not an actor yet, but I love her. 607 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:03,840 Speaker 4: Yeah. 608 00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:07,400 Speaker 1: Well, it's very funny for me in my home because 609 00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:11,680 Speaker 1: clearly Ash is not an actor either, but she's a performer. 610 00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:16,080 Speaker 1: Like she's a performance athlete. We are performance artists. And 611 00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:19,360 Speaker 1: when I have to prep for something, she's so genuine 612 00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:21,000 Speaker 1: and sweet and she'll be like, let me run your 613 00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:22,239 Speaker 1: lines with you, and I'm like. 614 00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:28,560 Speaker 2: You're like thanks, but no, thanks, no, no, And now now. 615 00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:31,920 Speaker 1: We finally will do it. And like halfway through, when 616 00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:34,239 Speaker 1: I'm really figuring out my thing, She'll be like, how 617 00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:36,160 Speaker 1: did you do that? And I'm like, you can't ask 618 00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:38,759 Speaker 1: me that in the middle of a scene, like how 619 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:41,640 Speaker 1: I made a You're not supposed to remind me that 620 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:46,520 Speaker 1: I'm a character. Yeah, it's like constant Shenanigan. So the 621 00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:48,880 Speaker 1: four of us clearly need to play some improv games. 622 00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:53,520 Speaker 3: Absolutely, It's really it's really fun to get to have shared, 623 00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:57,520 Speaker 3: you know, eight out of the eleven years of this 624 00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:01,000 Speaker 3: journey with Becca and like just like going to Coachella 625 00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:05,760 Speaker 3: and performing with Gigi Perez and having our song come out. 626 00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:07,040 Speaker 2: Like like Becca was. 627 00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:09,759 Speaker 3: She was practicing Gigi's parts while I was practicing my 628 00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:10,520 Speaker 3: parts because we. 629 00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:12,640 Speaker 2: Had separated, So I was like singing girls Like Girls 630 00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:19,200 Speaker 2: and she was the part, the part. Little moments like that, 631 00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:23,840 Speaker 2: they are just so joyful. Wait, how was Coachella? 632 00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:26,319 Speaker 1: I can't believe. I almost forgot to ask about it. 633 00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:27,880 Speaker 2: Oh, it was so fun. 634 00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:32,400 Speaker 3: You know, I performed eight years ago, and I think 635 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:35,719 Speaker 3: it was it was so extra meaningful because that was 636 00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:40,560 Speaker 3: the moment that I was trying to launch my you know, career, 637 00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:46,480 Speaker 3: and then you know, Gi existing in the world, was 638 00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:50,759 Speaker 3: inspired by my music and impacted by my music, and 639 00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:54,719 Speaker 3: so eight years later it's her moment a Coachella, and 640 00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:59,000 Speaker 3: it was so special. Uh, And I think healing for 641 00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:02,440 Speaker 3: both of us to get to sing Girls Like Girls together. 642 00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:07,560 Speaker 4: I had never shared I've never shared the stage. 643 00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:09,879 Speaker 3: With anyone performing Girls Like Girls, and so to get 644 00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:13,279 Speaker 3: to do that eight years later, come back also engaged. 645 00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:17,120 Speaker 3: I had met Baka like two weeks before I hail 646 00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:18,239 Speaker 3: in twenty eighteen, and. 647 00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:21,440 Speaker 2: There was just a lot of really cool, full circle. 648 00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:23,600 Speaker 4: Moments, and I am so. 649 00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:27,279 Speaker 3: Grateful for Gigi and all of the artists that are 650 00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:30,640 Speaker 3: on this album. I basically just wanted to make an 651 00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:36,560 Speaker 3: album about girls and brought on artists that I love 652 00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:39,440 Speaker 3: and I think I think also too. When you create 653 00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:42,800 Speaker 3: and anytime someone like donates their time or like shows 654 00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:43,960 Speaker 3: their support and a. 655 00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:48,319 Speaker 4: Real pay, it's so meaningful and it's so special to 656 00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:49,520 Speaker 4: be like, Wow. 657 00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:51,960 Speaker 3: We've impacted one another, and like we're actually going to 658 00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:54,759 Speaker 3: show up for each other. And to know for them 659 00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:57,840 Speaker 3: to see like that, I've I've been here for a 660 00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:00,000 Speaker 3: long time. I've been in the game for a long time, 661 00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:04,279 Speaker 3: and I've been working up for my moment for a 662 00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:07,160 Speaker 3: very long time. And for them to recognize that girls 663 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:10,840 Speaker 3: like girls, this film goes beyond me. It's a cultural 664 00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:15,000 Speaker 3: movement for our community. I felt really seen by that, 665 00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:17,480 Speaker 3: and so I'm so excited for people to hear the 666 00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:21,480 Speaker 3: rest of the album too. Now the movie's coming out 667 00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:22,239 Speaker 3: in a couple of days. 668 00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:25,600 Speaker 1: We're gonna pause here today, friends, and then come back 669 00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:29,600 Speaker 1: for a follow up episode with the amazing Haley. See 670 00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:41,400 Speaker 1: you on the next one.