1 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:11,640 Speaker 1: Teen girls. Underage girls were flown by private jet along 2 00:00:11,680 --> 00:00:18,599 Speaker 1: with dignitaries, wealthy and powerful men to live out their 3 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:24,480 Speaker 1: sex fantasies with underage girls. The final days of Jeffrey 4 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 1: Epstein culminating and finding him dead in his gel cell. 5 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 1: Now all the victims that he molested basically pimping them 6 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 1: out to other men rich and powerful. Are we going 7 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 1: to stand by and let this sort of crime happen 8 00:00:44,560 --> 00:01:01,800 Speaker 1: right under our noses? Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Epstein's 9 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 1: arrest last week has put the spotlight on a private 10 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 1: Caribbean island he owns, one that some have dubbed the 11 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:11,919 Speaker 1: Island of sin Or. Lisa Guerrero traveled to the Virgin 12 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:15,880 Speaker 1: Islands for this look. It's your first look at disgraced 13 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:19,760 Speaker 1: financier Jeffrey Epstein's private island. The only way to get 14 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 1: to the island in the Virgin Islands is by boat 15 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 1: and there it is Jeffrey Epstein's seventy acre retreat, known 16 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:30,440 Speaker 1: as the Little Saint James. And that's not the only 17 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:33,399 Speaker 1: name for a Little Saint James is also known as 18 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:41,640 Speaker 1: Orgy Island Their words not mine, where allegedly teen girls, 19 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:48,920 Speaker 1: underage girls were flown by private jet along with dignitaries, 20 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 1: wealthy and powerful men to live out their sex fantasies 21 00:01:56,080 --> 00:02:02,440 Speaker 1: with underage girls. Then in the wake of that, take 22 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 1: a listen to this. Thanks for joining us. We are 23 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 1: coming on the air with breaking news sources telling ABC 24 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 1: News that Jeffrey Epstein has died and apparent suicide overnight 25 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 1: at the Metropolitan Correctional Center in Manhattan. That is according 26 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 1: to three law enforcement sources who gave that information at 27 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 1: ABC News. This is the federal lockup where the multi 28 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:25,120 Speaker 1: millionaire was being held while awaiting trial on federal sex 29 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:28,960 Speaker 1: trafficking charges. You're hearing our friends at ABC. That'switt Johnston 30 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 1: before Deborah Norville. I Meanancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. 31 00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:38,640 Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. What now? Epstein escaped 32 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:42,639 Speaker 1: over and over because he was rich and powerful, basically 33 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:47,919 Speaker 1: using a Florida jail cell as a day camp, allowed 34 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 1: to walk free during the day, go to his law 35 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 1: office where young underage girls were seeing going in and 36 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:58,360 Speaker 1: out like a revolving door. And mysteriously the logs for 37 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 1: those visitors has been and lost again. I'm Nancy Grace, 38 00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 1: this is crime Stories. Thank you for being with US 39 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 1: with me an all star panel to figure out what's next. 40 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:12,800 Speaker 1: James Sheldonut with Me twenty seven years Metro Major kse 41 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 1: SWAT officer retired, now lawyer. Bobby Jaco, former special agent FBI, 42 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:23,079 Speaker 1: star of Facebook watch series Curse of Akacre. Professor Forensics, 43 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:27,880 Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. 44 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:31,799 Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan renounce psychoanalyst out of Beverly Hills at 45 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 1: doctor Bethany Marshall dot com. Right now to Melissa Cronin, 46 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 1: investigative journalist and co author of Epstein Dead Men Tell 47 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 1: No Tales. You know, it just never ends with this guy, 48 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 1: Melissa Cronin, And why is it when it's voiced publicly 49 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 1: that there's so much evidence he was murdered behind bars? 50 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 1: Why is that pooh pooed? Melissa? I think that there 51 00:03:56,720 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 1: have been so many outregeous revelations in this case that 52 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 1: really just pushed the bounds of believability. Everything that comes out. 53 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 1: People just can't believe that it's actually true that the guards, 54 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 1: two of them happen to be asleep too, that the 55 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:17,280 Speaker 1: video from that night has been missing or damage. It's 56 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 1: really just every single thing that comes out, it's really 57 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:23,560 Speaker 1: harder and harder to believe the official narrative of what 58 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 1: happened in this case. There's still so much more that 59 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:29,719 Speaker 1: we need to find out. Melissa Cronin journalists co author 60 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 1: Epstein Dead Men Tail No Tails. You can get it 61 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 1: on Amazon. I've already read it. It's bizarre. The facts 62 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:41,360 Speaker 1: are bizarre. Everything about Epstein is so hard to believe, 63 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:45,720 Speaker 1: but it's true, so much of it. How he got 64 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 1: away with years of pedophilia, basically rubbing it in the 65 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:55,880 Speaker 1: noses of law enforcement, flying Clinton and Trump around on 66 00:04:55,920 --> 00:05:00,599 Speaker 1: his private jet, meeting with Bill Gates, even print Andrew 67 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 1: pulled into the web. Big question. Melissa Cronin wears his pimp, 68 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:11,040 Speaker 1: Gelan Maxwell, the French aristocrat that lured young women allegedly 69 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 1: to get molested by Epstein. You know, Nancy, that's probably 70 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:17,480 Speaker 1: the most unbelievable thing is why haven't they brought to 71 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 1: women into justice yet? She would be the person that 72 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:24,240 Speaker 1: has the answers that we're looking for, and we haven't 73 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 1: heard a peep from the authorities about what they're actually 74 00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:33,359 Speaker 1: doing to find her. Now, my sources that I talked 75 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:36,919 Speaker 1: to for our book Epstein's dead mental motels tell me 76 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 1: that they believe Gallaine is actually living under the protection 77 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:46,919 Speaker 1: of the British Royal Family. That Gallaine knows too much 78 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:49,440 Speaker 1: and it's in the best interests of the higher ups 79 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:52,839 Speaker 1: in England that she not spill which she knows about 80 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 1: Prince Andrew. Melissa, Melissa, you know what, You're an incredible 81 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 1: investigative journalist, but you want me to be leave that 82 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:07,040 Speaker 1: the Queen of England is protecting a pamp. I find 83 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 1: it really hard to believe. But yes, Prince Andrew is 84 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:18,160 Speaker 1: dragged into this whole mess. So I don't get it. 85 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:22,839 Speaker 1: Why would they contravene a criminal investigation by the US, 86 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:25,680 Speaker 1: You know, Nancy, It's just like you said, it's another 87 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 1: of the unbelievable realities of this case and what we've 88 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:32,320 Speaker 1: seen and what we know to be true about the 89 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:36,479 Speaker 1: Queen is way beyond anything that we've ever seen out 90 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 1: of the Royal family before. She's actually fired Prince Andrew 91 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:45,039 Speaker 1: from his job as a member of the Royal Family. 92 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:48,960 Speaker 1: He was kicked out of his palace residence, He's lost 93 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 1: his six figure salary. She's basically sending a message to 94 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 1: the world that this is something way beyond what we 95 00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:00,679 Speaker 1: normally would see from the royal family. So even though 96 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:04,799 Speaker 1: it seems outrageous that they might do something like hide 97 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 1: a woman who is the worst camp of young children 98 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 1: that we've ever seen in history, this is totally uncharted 99 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 1: territory and every sense of the word. So, like I said, 100 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:18,239 Speaker 1: we still need to know more. But this is what's 101 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 1: bugging me, Melissa, this is something that's bugging me. I 102 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 1: can't wait to hear what she'll not Chicona Morgan have 103 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 1: to say to doctor Bethany Marshall's just a revictimization of 104 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 1: all these little girls because they're trying to smear the 105 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 1: girl's reputation. But that's what predators do. They pick the 106 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 1: weakest link. I was just saying yesterday, who does the 107 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 1: tiger attack which gazelle? Not the young, strong one that 108 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:47,560 Speaker 1: can run like the wind, the weak one, the pitiful 109 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 1: one that said the edge of the water, the one 110 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:53,960 Speaker 1: that they have most likely a chance of catching. And 111 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 1: that is whe Epstein targeted young girls on the fringe 112 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 1: of society. That's who he right, there's no nice way 113 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 1: to say it. He escaped justice, Doctor Bethany, and now 114 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 1: Gilan Maxwell, his high class pimp is on the run. 115 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 1: Nothing has happened to her. Why you don't, Nancy, You're right. 116 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 1: Think about it. He was worth over four hundred million. 117 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 1: He had women underage girls on his island and in 118 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 1: his private estates around the world. Once they were sequestered 119 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 1: on that island, they could not get off, They couldn't 120 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:33,559 Speaker 1: swim to safety. One girl tried to swim to a 121 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 1: nearby island. So think about it. There was this power 122 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 1: differential where Galaine and Epstein had all the power over them, 123 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:46,320 Speaker 1: and just at the moment where the girls finally might 124 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:48,599 Speaker 1: have power over them, where they might be able to 125 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 1: seek justice, Jeffrey Epstein dies, Glayne disappears. If I they're 126 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:57,720 Speaker 1: supposed to have their day in court, and now it 127 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:00,680 Speaker 1: has been ripped away from them. And you know, one 128 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:03,640 Speaker 1: time trauma is one thing. You know. I sometimes see 129 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 1: patients in my office who have been victimized once, but 130 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 1: when they are revictimized again and again, especially by the 131 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:14,560 Speaker 1: court system, we call it cumulative trauma. So now these 132 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:18,120 Speaker 1: girls are victims of cumulative trauma as they watch the 133 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:22,959 Speaker 1: saga unfold and potentially their perpetrator never ever ever brought 134 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 1: to justice. So to you. Melissa Cronin, co author of 135 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 1: Epstein Dead Men, Tell No Tels on Amazon. What was 136 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 1: Guillen Maxwell's part and Jeffrey Epstein raping so many little 137 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 1: girls because girls underage cannot consent to sex, okay, so 138 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 1: there is no such thing as consensual sex with a minor? 139 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:50,960 Speaker 1: What was Guillan Maxwell's part? And I've had to look 140 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:53,679 Speaker 1: that up every time I report to make sure her 141 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 1: name is pronounced Guillen, because it seems to me it 142 00:09:57,160 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 1: should be Jilaine because it's French. It's not scaling, Melissa, 143 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:04,600 Speaker 1: what was her part in all of this? There are 144 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:09,079 Speaker 1: reports she would even troll central part, trying to basically 145 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 1: lure real in draft underaged girls for Epstein to rape Nancy. 146 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 1: You know, Epstein was an evil monster, but Galen might 147 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 1: have been even worse. Her role with Epstein was, like 148 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:30,680 Speaker 1: you said, to prey upon these most vulnerable team girls, 149 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:34,480 Speaker 1: and she was brought into the mix basically so they 150 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 1: would lower their guards. It was a lot easier for 151 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 1: this beautiful, cosmopolitan, friendly, charming woman to approach these teen 152 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 1: girls and kind of trying to make them her friend 153 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 1: and prey upon their aspirations and desires to have a 154 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:52,679 Speaker 1: better life and kind of say you could be like 155 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:55,880 Speaker 1: me if you come into my world. She was a 156 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 1: lot more appealing than say, you know, this middle aged 157 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 1: man approaching them at them all. So she really tricked 158 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:06,720 Speaker 1: these girls and brought them into a web of evil 159 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:10,719 Speaker 1: that they had no idea that they were even approaching. 160 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:15,800 Speaker 1: Beyond that, we also know that she actually trained these 161 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 1: teams to be sex slaves for Epstein, teaching them, you know, 162 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:24,120 Speaker 1: acts that were way beyond anything that they should be 163 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:27,880 Speaker 1: doing as sixteen year olds, and really training them to 164 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:32,720 Speaker 1: be the sex slaves that Epstein wanted, just ruining their 165 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 1: lives from the very moment that she came into contact 166 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:57,560 Speaker 1: with them. Time stories with Nancy Grace in The New 167 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:00,720 Speaker 1: York Times, setting light of Jeffrey Emsky highs to Wall 168 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 1: Street power players, including some of the industry's biggest names. 169 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:06,400 Speaker 1: Joining us now is Kate Kelly, one of the journalists 170 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 1: behind this story. Kate, welcome, this has become as salacious 171 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:16,080 Speaker 1: and fascinating as opening up a madam's black book. I mean, 172 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 1: don't you think, I mean everybody wants to see who 173 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:22,240 Speaker 1: is connected to Jeffrey Epstein. Yes, you're absolutely right, Melissa 174 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 1: and We have spent some time, as have many reporters, 175 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:28,000 Speaker 1: I'm sure looking through the infamous Epstein Black Book, which 176 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:31,720 Speaker 1: does exist, surfaced around twenty fifteen, and a lot of 177 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:36,319 Speaker 1: notable Wall Street players are in there. But our story 178 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 1: today focuses on just a handful that seemed to have 179 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:43,640 Speaker 1: had serious client or business ties to him. Perhaps the 180 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:47,199 Speaker 1: most interesting, Leon Black, the co founder of Apollo Management 181 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:53,120 Speaker 1: and CEO. Now he entrusted Jeffrey Epstein with some tax 182 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:57,480 Speaker 1: and estate planning for himself over a course on and 183 00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:01,640 Speaker 1: off of about fifteen years or so. He also had 184 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:04,720 Speaker 1: for a time Jeffrey Epstein on his family foundation board, 185 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 1: starting in about two thousand and going up through the 186 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:12,079 Speaker 1: late auts. That's just one of many many names found 187 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 1: in Jeffrey Epstein's Little Black Book. It wasn't so little 188 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 1: names of the rich and powerful. Apparently, between the two 189 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:26,160 Speaker 1: of them, Prince Andrew of Great Britain and Epstein shared 190 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 1: about fourteen to fifteen cell phone numbers, numbers where they 191 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:34,719 Speaker 1: could always reach each other. Okay, I don't even have 192 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:38,960 Speaker 1: that many numbers. Joseph Scott Morgan, you're the professor of forensics, 193 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 1: the author of Blood Beneath My Feet I don't need 194 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:45,240 Speaker 1: a forensics expert, sorry Joe Scott, to tell me there's 195 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:47,360 Speaker 1: something a way wrong with that. When these guys have 196 00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 1: about fourteen numbers between them for each other, why I 197 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 1: don't even have that many numbers for my husband. I 198 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:57,439 Speaker 1: think that probably the Russian It's just like any other 199 00:13:57,520 --> 00:14:00,319 Speaker 1: kind of criminal enterprise, and that's what you can identified 200 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:05,680 Speaker 1: as Nancy. You have, you know, these organized crime people 201 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:09,000 Speaker 1: that will have multiple phones because it makes it more 202 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:12,480 Speaker 1: difficult for authorities to track them. Trust me, they knew 203 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:16,079 Speaker 1: what they were engaged in, they knew the steps they 204 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 1: had to take to kind of insulate themselves, and so 205 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 1: they're going to use multiple contact numbers in order to 206 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:24,560 Speaker 1: keep anybody that might that might get a whiff of 207 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 1: this off of the scent so that they can traffic 208 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 1: in these girls. I'm going to circle back to his 209 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 1: death behind bars, Epstein's death behind bars, But in the 210 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 1: last hours we learned that his pimp, his aristocratic French 211 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:43,360 Speaker 1: Madam Zille, and Maxwell's private emails have been hacked. And 212 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 1: that's because about two thousand secret documents have been released, 213 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 1: documents related to the Jeffrey Epstein investigation, and somehow because 214 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:58,680 Speaker 1: of that release, there was information in there that allowed 215 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:05,440 Speaker 1: hackers to get into gieland Maxwell's private emails. Okay, that's 216 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 1: a huge, big deal, Melissa Corona, what does that mean? 217 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 1: This could be the thing that cracks opened the case. 218 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:16,200 Speaker 1: We've already seen some of the Lane's communications with Jeffrey 219 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 1: Epstein's in her circle. In the different phone messages that 220 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:24,240 Speaker 1: were revealed through the Florida case. He showed her and 221 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 1: Epstein having phone calls with the highest levels of the 222 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:31,560 Speaker 1: rich and famous around the world. So now that her 223 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:35,400 Speaker 1: emails have been hacked, they're out there somewhere, probably on 224 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:38,640 Speaker 1: the dark web, and everyone is going to be trying 225 00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 1: to find them to figure out who exactly she was 226 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 1: in contact too before and after his death. So that 227 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 1: includes the authorities, but it could also be a journalist 228 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:55,240 Speaker 1: like hopefully me that finds out where she is and 229 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 1: who else is helping her stay hidden. Guys, we are 230 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:03,200 Speaker 1: also getting reports that Christina Oxenberg, a cousin to British 231 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 1: royal family and sister Catherine Oxenburg, recalled a very unusual 232 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 1: encounter with Guillen Maxwell where she Oxenburg was invited to 233 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 1: a ladies tea party at Gillan Maxwell's home, and when 234 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:26,120 Speaker 1: she gets there, Guillen is dressed in only her underwear 235 00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:30,360 Speaker 1: and brought and fanning herself with a copy of Vogue magazine. 236 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:33,520 Speaker 1: You know, I'm in a studio right now with Jackie Howard, 237 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:36,560 Speaker 1: and it's all we can do to feed all the pets, 238 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 1: the children, the husband, the grandma, the this, the that, 239 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:42,800 Speaker 1: to work all day and figure out what happens by 240 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:45,640 Speaker 1: the time you're done with all that. And here are 241 00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:50,320 Speaker 1: these ladies sitting around in their underwear. Well, it's Gielan 242 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 1: Maxwell fanning herself with a copy of Vogue. First of all, 243 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 1: what do you have to shell out for a copy 244 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 1: of Vogue? Now? Like seven to fifty or ten dollars? Okay, 245 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:03,920 Speaker 1: enjoy that, Gillan Maxwell while you're on the run. Not 246 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:09,440 Speaker 1: only that, Gillan Maxwell's whining on the phone, asking Oxenbourg 247 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:14,199 Speaker 1: to tea and whining, I'm poor, poor, inviting her to 248 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:18,439 Speaker 1: come to her new home. Now Oxenbourg shows up expecting, 249 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:21,480 Speaker 1: you know, something not so great. But it was a 250 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 1: huge condo on seventy ninth Street, Gillan presiding over the 251 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 1: tea with a lacy braun underwear set and lots of 252 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:38,440 Speaker 1: jewelry so much that it jangled when she moved. Okay, 253 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 1: I'll just keep that in my head when I imagine 254 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 1: her chomping through Central Park trying to get fourteen fifteen 255 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 1: year old girls so Epstein could rape them. Two Bobby 256 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 1: Chico and former FBI star on Facebook watch series Course 257 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 1: of Acacord. What does it mean to you that her 258 00:17:56,920 --> 00:18:01,879 Speaker 1: Gilla Maxwell's emails private emails have been hacked? Well, it 259 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:04,720 Speaker 1: shows me that there are people out there with the 260 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:07,719 Speaker 1: means to do such hacking that probably want to have 261 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:10,200 Speaker 1: a look at those emails and probably don't want them 262 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:12,960 Speaker 1: falling in the hands of the authorities. I would I 263 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:15,040 Speaker 1: would think that, you know, I would hope that the 264 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:18,440 Speaker 1: authorities got to them first and that the hacking is 265 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:21,520 Speaker 1: the type of hacking that doesn't isn't able to destroy 266 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:23,920 Speaker 1: those emails. But it shows me that they are rich 267 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:27,480 Speaker 1: and powerful people that are going after Maxwell in any 268 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:29,760 Speaker 1: way they can. So you might it might be the 269 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:32,639 Speaker 1: situation where you have one group hiding her and another 270 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:35,080 Speaker 1: group like trying to find out where she is so 271 00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:38,440 Speaker 1: she can't do any damage to them. And so this 272 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:43,720 Speaker 1: hacking is not random. It's not some person looking for you. 273 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:47,440 Speaker 1: Know ransom or any kind of reward. It to me, 274 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:49,480 Speaker 1: it's it's some of those rich and powerful people that 275 00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:52,160 Speaker 1: could be hurt by whatever is in those emails that 276 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 1: are probably behind the hacking, and with the intention of 277 00:18:56,680 --> 00:19:01,840 Speaker 1: not having those emails leaked out. Right now, I am 278 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 1: very disturbed that everybody's screaming about Epstein's victims not being 279 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:09,640 Speaker 1: able to face Epstein in court because he gets killed 280 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:12,320 Speaker 1: behind bars. What about Gail and Maxwell? What are we 281 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:18,359 Speaker 1: doing about his pimp, his aristocratic French pimp that recruited 282 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:35,160 Speaker 1: these girls to be raped by Epstein? According to them. 283 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:39,320 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Olivia, who was one of 284 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:42,280 Speaker 1: nine accusers and a new lawsuit filed against the estate 285 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:45,240 Speaker 1: of Epstein, says that she had first met the Disgrace 286 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:49,879 Speaker 1: financier after she moved to New York to follow her aspirations. Lily, 287 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:53,280 Speaker 1: who also asked that her true identity be concealed, says 288 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:57,119 Speaker 1: she was also abused by Epstein when she was just nineteen, 289 00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 1: and even though he took his own life and his gone, 290 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:04,199 Speaker 1: she still doesn't feel safe. When we spoke to Olivia 291 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:07,080 Speaker 1: and Lily, they did not hint at other men or 292 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 1: other powerful men but they did hint at the women 293 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:13,280 Speaker 1: and other people who enabled Jeffrey Epstein in his circle 294 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:16,560 Speaker 1: to allow him to do this type, these types of 295 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:20,639 Speaker 1: crimes he's alleged crimes. Specifically, the fact that there was 296 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:24,680 Speaker 1: the secretary and the other employees who were women who 297 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:29,560 Speaker 1: really told made these women trust, these girls trust that 298 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:31,600 Speaker 1: they were going into us safe hands when it came 299 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:34,520 Speaker 1: to Epstein. So I think they weren't willing to give 300 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 1: names because I think that there is criminal litigation that 301 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:40,040 Speaker 1: could perhaps happen in the future. You are listening to 302 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:43,879 Speaker 1: our friends at Fox, what about Gaila Maxwell? What are 303 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:48,840 Speaker 1: we doing about his pimp? He has aristocratic French pimp 304 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:52,240 Speaker 1: that recruited these girls to be raped by Epstein, according 305 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 1: to them, right now to James shell Nutt, twenty seven 306 00:20:55,920 --> 00:21:00,640 Speaker 1: years Metro major case now lawyer we know and Maxwell's 307 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:04,919 Speaker 1: lawyers appear in New York court to fight against quote 308 00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 1: damning records being unsealed. With Maxwell in hiding being protected 309 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 1: reportedly by a number of her highbrow friends, she still 310 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:20,120 Speaker 1: retains a fleet of high paid lawyers doing her bidding. 311 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:25,440 Speaker 1: In court, they fought not to allow all of these 312 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 1: documents to be released, but they were she's apparently lawyering 313 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 1: up for a fight that's still yet to come. What 314 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:35,600 Speaker 1: do you think, what are the possible charges that will 315 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:38,880 Speaker 1: be filed against Epstein's pimp? Well, I think, first of all, 316 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:41,120 Speaker 1: I mean you've got a human trafficking case. I mean 317 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:44,320 Speaker 1: that certainly is one of those things there's no telling what. 318 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:47,639 Speaker 1: You start scratching the surface and FBI continues to investigate, 319 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:50,520 Speaker 1: you can have all types of other charges of conspiracy, 320 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:54,800 Speaker 1: all types of enterprise charges, and many other far reaching 321 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:59,480 Speaker 1: types of things such as extortion, and there's just no 322 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 1: telling what you're gonna find. This has going on for years. 323 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:04,639 Speaker 1: There are a lot of people involved. There is a 324 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:08,080 Speaker 1: lot at stake. This isn't just the normal type of case. 325 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:10,680 Speaker 1: As bad as it may be for someone to prostitute 326 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:12,919 Speaker 1: someone out on the streets of Las Vegas or New 327 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:17,320 Speaker 1: York is. This has a worldwide implication with some of 328 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:20,120 Speaker 1: the most powerful, rich people in the world, and there's 329 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:21,399 Speaker 1: going to be a lot more to it once the 330 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 1: FBI gets to the bottom of it, if they ever do, 331 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:25,879 Speaker 1: and if they don't, I can tell you who will, 332 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 1: private lawyers. It's not just up to the Feds, who 333 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:34,760 Speaker 1: never did a darned thing about Epstein. Sigrid McAuley. That's 334 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:38,880 Speaker 1: a lawyer for one of the alleged Epstein victims who 335 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 1: says that Gillan Maxwell recruited young girls to get raped. 336 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 1: Other Epstein accusers, including Annie Farmer, say that Maxwell, Guillan 337 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:52,959 Speaker 1: Maxwell is in hiding in quote plain sight. That just 338 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:56,560 Speaker 1: screams New York to me. Now, this lawyer has been 339 00:22:56,600 --> 00:23:01,560 Speaker 1: trying to serve Guillan maxwell Inner lawyers with a complaint, 340 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:06,240 Speaker 1: a civil complaint. The lawyers refuse to respond or accept 341 00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:10,080 Speaker 1: service of these legal papers, and they can't find gil 342 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:12,840 Speaker 1: and Maxwell. Now her lawyers know where to find her, 343 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:15,720 Speaker 1: and for five years, her lawyers have been working to 344 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:23,120 Speaker 1: conceal her role as Epstein's pimp. And they complete the complaint. 345 00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:27,240 Speaker 1: Devastation they brought on the lives of all of these 346 00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:31,720 Speaker 1: young girls and women. So, doctor Bethany, we're sending the 347 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:35,880 Speaker 1: girls who are looking for justice a message that, oh, 348 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:38,840 Speaker 1: we can't find gil and Maxwell, but her lawyers know 349 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:41,560 Speaker 1: where she is. So once again, these girls are being 350 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:46,359 Speaker 1: victimized by rich and powerful men. Right. It reminds me 351 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:50,680 Speaker 1: of something called institutional sociopathy. It's when one person who 352 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:53,960 Speaker 1: lacks the conscience joins up with another person who lacks 353 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:56,159 Speaker 1: the conscience, and it joins up with another person who 354 00:23:56,240 --> 00:24:00,440 Speaker 1: lacks the conscience, and pretty much they began to form 355 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:03,800 Speaker 1: some kind of a vast web where they act in concert, 356 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:06,359 Speaker 1: men and women together. We saw this in the Michael 357 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:10,360 Speaker 1: Jackson case. The maid didn't say anything, the guard who 358 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:14,080 Speaker 1: saw him with little kids didn't say anything. Everybody looked 359 00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:17,800 Speaker 1: the other way or participated in some way. And so 360 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:20,160 Speaker 1: what these girls are going to feel is that not 361 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:24,320 Speaker 1: only can they not trust men like Jeffrey Epstein, but 362 00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 1: they cannot trust society because society at large is colluding 363 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:34,919 Speaker 1: with all this bad, perverted behavior. Listen the theories that 364 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:36,359 Speaker 1: are out there. One of them is that it was 365 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:39,760 Speaker 1: another inmate who may have killed Jeffrey Epstein. Come on, 366 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:43,600 Speaker 1: you don't believe that he was found hanging in his cell. 367 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:47,000 Speaker 1: He had tried to commitite suicide before that. He was 368 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 1: a very wealthy man who was looking in a lifetime 369 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:53,639 Speaker 1: in prison. You know, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. 370 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,960 Speaker 1: So Epstein's taken off suicide Watch the day before he 371 00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:02,840 Speaker 1: kills himself. His roommate is removed from the cell. The 372 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:06,920 Speaker 1: cameras on his tier are not working, the guards fell asleep. 373 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:11,679 Speaker 1: It seems almost impossible to think all of those things 374 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:14,520 Speaker 1: could happen in that way. It does, and that's what 375 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:17,240 Speaker 1: makes this so shocking. I mean, this is a failure 376 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:19,879 Speaker 1: on multiple levels. Do you think there's any way that 377 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:24,600 Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein could have been murdered? Absolutely, unequivocally not. Okay, 378 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,920 Speaker 1: he says, tomato, I say, tomato, that's sixty minutes inside 379 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:32,920 Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein's sell you're hearing Sharon ol Faunsey. But to 380 00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:37,280 Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of 381 00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:41,919 Speaker 1: Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, you have sent me 382 00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:49,600 Speaker 1: a series of photos and theories, not just wild theories, 383 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:53,879 Speaker 1: but theories based on what you are seeing in his 384 00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:57,320 Speaker 1: jail cell. And I've been around the block more times 385 00:25:57,320 --> 00:25:59,680 Speaker 1: than I can count. I've been in more jails and 386 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:04,200 Speaker 1: even remember, and I can tell you the condition of 387 00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:07,280 Speaker 1: his jail cell at the time of his death was 388 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:13,800 Speaker 1: highly irregular in many many ways. Now, let's just start 389 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:18,040 Speaker 1: with what you observed before we get into his autopsy. 390 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:22,480 Speaker 1: What you observed that was so wrong with his jail cell. Now, 391 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:26,960 Speaker 1: keeping in mind, hold on j Scott Melissa Cronin that 392 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:30,639 Speaker 1: he had had another a first suicide attempt. Let's just 393 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:35,159 Speaker 1: say about a week before this suicide attempt, where he 394 00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:41,040 Speaker 1: had been allegedly depressed. He blamed that as an attack 395 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:46,840 Speaker 1: by another inmate, and that was pooh pooed. Ebstein himself said, 396 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:51,000 Speaker 1: another inmate did it? Okay, le just don't forget that. 397 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:58,520 Speaker 1: But then amazingly the video from that incident missing. Nobody 398 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:05,160 Speaker 1: has that, and he's taken off suicide watch, his roommate 399 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:09,040 Speaker 1: is taken out of the sale. In the hours leading 400 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:15,200 Speaker 1: up to his second and successful alleged suicide attempt, None 401 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:18,639 Speaker 1: of that makes sense to me, Melissa Cronin, Nancy, like 402 00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:23,640 Speaker 1: you said, every single aspect of his first suicide attempt 403 00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:28,680 Speaker 1: and his eventual death just defies belief. There were lapses 404 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 1: in judgment and lapses in protocol every step of the 405 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,400 Speaker 1: way for almost two weeks up until the moment when 406 00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:39,720 Speaker 1: he died. So his first suicide attempt, we actually broke 407 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:43,840 Speaker 1: the story of that on Radar Online on July twenty third. 408 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:46,200 Speaker 1: Like you said, he claimed that that had been an 409 00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:52,640 Speaker 1: attack by his roommate, a man named Nicholas CARTALLIONI as 410 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:57,679 Speaker 1: you said, shockingly, the video from that night does not exist. Now, 411 00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:01,160 Speaker 1: First the authority said, oh, actually we did find it. 412 00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:04,240 Speaker 1: Nobody saw it, and they came out later and said, 413 00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:07,640 Speaker 1: you know, oh it's actually been corrupted. We can't see 414 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:11,399 Speaker 1: what was shown on that. And we talked to another 415 00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:15,560 Speaker 1: inmate that actually was a witness to that suicide attempt 416 00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:19,880 Speaker 1: on July twenty third, and they said that it did 417 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:23,760 Speaker 1: not sound like an attack from his roommate. That actually 418 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:27,080 Speaker 1: Epstein's roommate was his closest friend in the prison, that 419 00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:29,520 Speaker 1: he was kind of looking out for him and this 420 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:33,560 Speaker 1: man he was charged with killing four people, but he 421 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:36,520 Speaker 1: also insists that he was the one that yelled for 422 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:40,920 Speaker 1: the guards to come and actually save Epstein's life during 423 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:58,800 Speaker 1: that first attempt Time Stories with Nancy Grace. The government 424 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 1: says Epstein was suicidal and made his first failed suicide 425 00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:07,720 Speaker 1: attempt weeks after he arrived. According to court documents, on 426 00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:11,240 Speaker 1: July twenty third, a guard found Epstein on the floor 427 00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:14,280 Speaker 1: of his cell with the strip of bedsheet around his neck. 428 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:19,960 Speaker 1: Epstein claimed his cellmate, Nick tartag Leone attacked him. Epstein 429 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:24,080 Speaker 1: says that Nick tried to kill him. Nick says absolutely 430 00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:27,080 Speaker 1: nothing like that happened. Oh it's not just Nick says, 431 00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:30,680 Speaker 1: absolutely nothing happened. Absolutely nothing happened. No one says that 432 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:34,440 Speaker 1: Nick tried to kill Epstein. Epstein was moved to the 433 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:39,480 Speaker 1: psych unit and policed on suicide watch, but one week later, Epstein, 434 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:43,840 Speaker 1: at the direction of the MCC's psychological staff, was taken 435 00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:47,840 Speaker 1: off suicide watch and required to have an assigned cellmate. 436 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:50,880 Speaker 1: You are listening to CBS sixty minutes about the first 437 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:55,920 Speaker 1: suicide attempt. So what we believe, even though Epstein said 438 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,840 Speaker 1: he was attacked, is that it was in fact a 439 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,760 Speaker 1: suicide attempt. The NBC four at the Metropolitan Correctional Center, 440 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:06,440 Speaker 1: prison officers now keeping a closer eye on Jeffrey Epstein, 441 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:11,719 Speaker 1: the financier and accused child sex trafficker, injured earlier this 442 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:15,640 Speaker 1: week with apparent marks to his neck, lying nearly semi 443 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:20,400 Speaker 1: unconscious in a fetal position in a secure cell block area. 444 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:24,240 Speaker 1: Investigators have three theories. One he tried to commit suicide, 445 00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:27,560 Speaker 1: two he staged the incident to try to get a transfer, 446 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:31,120 Speaker 1: or three that he was attacked by an inmate in 447 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:35,479 Speaker 1: his unit. Accused killer Nicholas Tartaglione is housed in the 448 00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:39,840 Speaker 1: same unit as Epstein. His lawyer says Tartaglione was initially 449 00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:43,920 Speaker 1: questioned only as a possible witness and is not a suspect. 450 00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:47,400 Speaker 1: Nick had nothing to do with harming anybody in any facility, 451 00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:51,680 Speaker 1: including mister Epstein, our friends at NBC four. So was 452 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:55,360 Speaker 1: it all staged to get to a better part of 453 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,880 Speaker 1: the jail and that would be the psych unit? I 454 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,640 Speaker 1: mean doctor Bethany marsh or psychoanist out of Beverly Hills, 455 00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:05,400 Speaker 1: doctor Bethany. Everybody in jail wants to go to the 456 00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 1: mad unit. Everybody. It's better conditions, better food, better treatment, 457 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:15,640 Speaker 1: better beds, better everything. Was it staged? What do you think? Well? 458 00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:18,520 Speaker 1: I don't think so. Because you have a man who's 459 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:25,640 Speaker 1: used to living on a huge island, big staff, gourmet food, marble, foyer, 460 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:29,120 Speaker 1: frotation sheets. Do you think a man like that is 461 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:34,040 Speaker 1: going to try to stage getting to another part of 462 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:37,440 Speaker 1: the prison by putting a ligature around his neck. That 463 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,120 Speaker 1: seems highly unlikely. It seems like he would do it 464 00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:43,320 Speaker 1: if he really wanted. Well wait a minute, wait a minute, 465 00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:48,920 Speaker 1: are you familiar Are you familiar with the shoe? Are 466 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:52,480 Speaker 1: you familiar with this facility? Listen to CBS sixty minutes. 467 00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:55,640 Speaker 1: MCC is the worst jail of prison I've ever been to, 468 00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:58,880 Speaker 1: by far. It's not a club fed, it's not a 469 00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:04,920 Speaker 1: club anything. It is dirty. It's insect infested, rodent infested. 470 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:07,840 Speaker 1: It was built for about three hundred and fifty and 471 00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:11,160 Speaker 1: in houses over seven hundred, so the inmates are packed in. 472 00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:15,520 Speaker 1: Bruce Barquette is the lawyer for Epstein's first cellmate, fifty 473 00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:19,120 Speaker 1: two year old Nick tartag Leone, a brawny former police 474 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:23,200 Speaker 1: officer accused of murdering four men. They shared a cell 475 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:26,720 Speaker 1: in the Shoe, the special housing unit, which is considered 476 00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:31,000 Speaker 1: safer than general population. Jail's a tough place. The rules 477 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:34,440 Speaker 1: don't exist the way they do in society. Somebody like 478 00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:40,920 Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein, an elderly rich why mail, is going to 479 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:44,760 Speaker 1: have a tough time in general population. Epstein was directing 480 00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:48,920 Speaker 1: money to be deposited in other inmates commissary accounts in 481 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:52,600 Speaker 1: exchange for his protection. Sources say because he feared for 482 00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:59,000 Speaker 1: his life. So if it was a suicide attempt, why 483 00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:04,720 Speaker 1: was he taken off suicide watch Listen to this. Lawyers 484 00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:07,560 Speaker 1: say the day before Epstein was found dead, he was 485 00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:11,040 Speaker 1: upbeat and looking forward to an appeal hearing on his bail. 486 00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:15,080 Speaker 1: That same day, his cellmate was released and no new 487 00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:18,720 Speaker 1: cellmate was assigned, even though he was required to have one. 488 00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:22,479 Speaker 1: Michael Thomas and Toba Nuel are the two guards who 489 00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:26,320 Speaker 1: were working the overnight shift on the Shoe. Court documents 490 00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:30,040 Speaker 1: say Epstein was escorted into his cell by Toba Nuel 491 00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:34,200 Speaker 1: at approximately seven to forty nine pm. Then the guards 492 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:37,320 Speaker 1: didn't check in on him again until shortly after six 493 00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:40,600 Speaker 1: thirty am the next morning. So in the Shoe they 494 00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:42,960 Speaker 1: should be checked in on every thirty minute. They should 495 00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:46,400 Speaker 1: be checked on every thirty minutes. It's my understanding based 496 00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:48,880 Speaker 1: on the documents, and I examined. The two officers that 497 00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:52,640 Speaker 1: were working in the special housing unit allegedly falsified the 498 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:56,400 Speaker 1: records and did not do any rounds for approximately eight hours. 499 00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:58,200 Speaker 1: How big of a deal is that. That's a huge, 500 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:01,760 Speaker 1: huge deal. This is one of the most basic operational 501 00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:05,000 Speaker 1: aspects of managing a jail or prison. So to you, 502 00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:07,600 Speaker 1: Melissa Krona, and you're hearing our friends at sixty minutes, 503 00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:11,000 Speaker 1: Krona and co author Epstein dead men tell no tels. 504 00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:18,480 Speaker 1: It's hard to believe that so many coincidences occurred to 505 00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:23,560 Speaker 1: create a perfect storm. The not one guard, but two 506 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:28,040 Speaker 1: guards decided to take a nap and shop online. Both 507 00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:32,680 Speaker 1: of them didn't do a single round, not one for 508 00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:38,239 Speaker 1: their whole shift several hours, eight hours at least. The 509 00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:43,840 Speaker 1: video recorder just happened not to be working and or 510 00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:50,279 Speaker 1: they preserved the wrong video the hours before the suicide. 511 00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:54,800 Speaker 1: The actual death of Epstein his cellmate is removed, even 512 00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:58,560 Speaker 1: though after a suicide, you're supposed to have a seal, 513 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:02,160 Speaker 1: a suicie attempt, you're supposed of a cellmate being one 514 00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:06,120 Speaker 1: thing after the next. And Joska Morgan, did you see 515 00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:10,000 Speaker 1: all the things in his cell that shouldn't be there? Yeah? 516 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:14,000 Speaker 1: I did, Nancy, And just kind of an overall view 517 00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:17,840 Speaker 1: and kind of clarification this image that these images that 518 00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:20,880 Speaker 1: I've seen were provided, you know, from the sixteen minutes 519 00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:24,520 Speaker 1: special that was that was done, and I was shocked, 520 00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:28,239 Speaker 1: I have to admit, you know, uh, in correctional facilities, 521 00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:34,200 Speaker 1: prison facilities, it is paramount that that prisoners commonly keep 522 00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:37,760 Speaker 1: their cell in an ordered fashion because you know, chaos 523 00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:39,600 Speaker 1: and er it's like a child, you know, chaos in 524 00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:42,080 Speaker 1: a room leads to chaos in the mind. It makes 525 00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:44,920 Speaker 1: it very difficult to control people. When you look at 526 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,759 Speaker 1: the interior of his cell, Nancy, and people can see 527 00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:51,399 Speaker 1: this online, it's squalid. You know, You've got you've got 528 00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:55,560 Speaker 1: piles of cloth laying everywhere, it's all orange cloth, mattress 529 00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:58,520 Speaker 1: laying on the floor, and it's it's dirty. You can 530 00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:00,800 Speaker 1: actually see stains on the floor. So yeah, I agree 531 00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:02,960 Speaker 1: with what the gentleman said in the interview about it 532 00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:06,879 Speaker 1: having potentially having bugs and lord only knows what else. 533 00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:09,040 Speaker 1: But one of the things that's really troubling about this 534 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:13,200 Speaker 1: whole thing, two major things. This guy's on has recently 535 00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:17,200 Speaker 1: been on suicide Watch. Okay, but yet when I take 536 00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:21,000 Speaker 1: a look at these these images, it's observable you can 537 00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:24,040 Speaker 1: actually see what appears to be a hose laying on 538 00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:26,080 Speaker 1: the floor that might be an inch and a half 539 00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:28,680 Speaker 1: in diameter, it's kind of lengthy. And you can see 540 00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:32,000 Speaker 1: an electrical court that's laying on the floor. Now, these 541 00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:35,560 Speaker 1: are something that can be used to facilitate as a 542 00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:38,480 Speaker 1: ligature for hanging or for any other purpose that you 543 00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:41,960 Speaker 1: might want to do. This nefarious And another piece to this, 544 00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:44,839 Speaker 1: when you take a look at his top bump. There's two. 545 00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:47,800 Speaker 1: It's a two bump structure. The top bunk, the mattress 546 00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:50,720 Speaker 1: is missing off of it. And this guy has gotten 547 00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:54,279 Speaker 1: medications up there. He's allowed to keep his own medications 548 00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:57,440 Speaker 1: in the cell. It's it's striking, you know when you 549 00:36:57,480 --> 00:36:59,520 Speaker 1: consider about you know, you consider a lot of the 550 00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:02,839 Speaker 1: correction desk that I've worked. If a patient, if a 551 00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:06,960 Speaker 1: prisoner slash patient is on meds, those have to be 552 00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:11,160 Speaker 1: distributed by the infirmary. The nurse will come by along 553 00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:13,280 Speaker 1: with a guard and they'll give you your daily meds. 554 00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:15,799 Speaker 1: This guy had a slew of medications up there. So 555 00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:19,200 Speaker 1: this whole thing is very, very troubling when you take 556 00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:21,600 Speaker 1: a look at it in the context that he had 557 00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:28,360 Speaker 1: allegedly previously attempted to kill himself. Tune in tomorrow for 558 00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:31,080 Speaker 1: part two of our investigation into the last days of 559 00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:36,880 Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein tomorrow on Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Nancy 560 00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:39,280 Speaker 1: Grace Crime Stories signing off Goodbye Friend.