Speaker 1: Welcome to the wired to hunt podcast, home of the
Speaker 1: modern white tail hunter and now your host, Mark Kenyon.
Speaker 1: Hey everyone, welcome to the wire to hunt podcast. I'm
Speaker 1: your guest host, Tony Peterson, and today I'm speaking to
Speaker 1: Nathan Murnach, who is not only one of the best
Speaker 1: white tail hunters I know, but also the CE OF
Speaker 1: BASE Camp Lisa. All Right, folks, welcome to the wire
Speaker 1: to hunt podcast, which is brought to you by first light.
Speaker 1: You've probably figured out that this is not the voice
Speaker 1: of Mark Kenyon. Mark was actually supposed to record an
Speaker 1: episode this week, but he got a lead on a
Speaker 1: vintage Jurassic Park try Sarah tops toy and he is
Speaker 1: on a mission to buy it to complete his collection. Now,
Speaker 1: I know you might think this is a joke, but
Speaker 1: it's actually not. Mark had an unfortunate incident in third
Speaker 1: grade where he didn't get that toy for Christmas and
Speaker 1: it has haunted him ever since. Feel free to ask
Speaker 1: him about it. This is all true. So anyway, hopefully
Speaker 1: he'll get that squared away so he can come back
Speaker 1: and do his job, but for now you have me.
Speaker 1: So all right. We've listened to Andy May, Mike Stroff
Speaker 1: and Zach Ferrenbaugh the last three weeks talk about big
Speaker 1: bucks and how we often give them too much credit.
Speaker 1: Today I'm wrapping up this rabbits with Antler's month with
Speaker 1: a guy named Nathan Murnach who is an absolute white
Speaker 1: tail killer. Murnach started out as a police officer before
Speaker 1: joining Cabella's for a decade, and now he works as
Speaker 1: the CEO of Base Camp Leasing, which is a service
Speaker 1: that facilitates leasing opportunities for white tails across the country,
Speaker 1: but also handles real estate for folks who are looking
Speaker 1: to buy their own dear ground. This is a really
Speaker 1: interesting perspective we don't off and hear from on this podcast,
Speaker 1: and I'm telling you, not only does Nathan offer up
Speaker 1: plenty of good information on how to get yourself onto
Speaker 1: some solid deer ground, but also how to hunt it correctly,
Speaker 1: whether you're really on premo dirt or on public land.
Speaker 1: I had a blast talking to him and I think
Speaker 1: you're gonna love what he has to say. Nate, how
Speaker 1: you doing, buddy? I'm doing real good, Tony, real good.
Speaker 1: It is a pleasure to get to speak with you. Man.
Speaker 1: We haven't we haven't connected in a while. I miss you, Buddy.
Speaker 1: I miss you too, man. We had some good times,
Speaker 1: didn't we? We did we. Uh, we chased some turkeys
Speaker 1: down there in Missouri a few years ago and uh,
Speaker 1: we've talked a lot about deer and I actually I
Speaker 1: met you working on a book for Tom Miranda a
Speaker 1: million years ago and we just hit it off and
Speaker 1: I just remember thinking, you know, this is this is
Speaker 1: a dude that understands white tales. I could talking to
Speaker 1: you and then getting to getting to spend some time
Speaker 1: with you on your property in Missouri. They're just seeing
Speaker 1: how you had it set up and here in your
Speaker 1: stories about hunting there for yourself and with your daughters.
Speaker 1: It was like this guy, he just gets it. Like
Speaker 1: there's there's certain people you meet who you can just
Speaker 1: tell understand white tales on a really deep level, and
Speaker 1: I put you in that category. Man. Oh that's that's
Speaker 1: a humbling, humbling statement to hear, I can tell you,
Speaker 1: especially coming from me, Tony. I really appreciate that. So
Speaker 1: I wanted to talk to you and wrap up this
Speaker 1: rabbits with Antler's month, because you you come at this
Speaker 1: from a different perspective. You know, we had Andy and
Speaker 1: Zach on talking public and then we had Mike Straf
Speaker 1: on talking about his perspective as an outfitter. But you're
Speaker 1: a guy who started out at Cabella's and now you
Speaker 1: work for base camp leasing as a CEO there, and
Speaker 1: you you kind of work in this space of buying
Speaker 1: hunting land and leasing hunting land and man, I gotta
Speaker 1: imagine that's just burning so hot right now. It is,
Speaker 1: absolutely has been. It hasn't slowed down in at least
Speaker 1: but in the last two years, with all the distry
Speaker 1: actions we've had out there, the demand's only gotten higher
Speaker 1: and properties changing a lot of hands out there on
Speaker 1: the real estate side and on the leasing side. Boy,
Speaker 1: if we've got a good property out there, it does
Speaker 1: not last long. Yeah, I bet, I bet. I want
Speaker 1: to talk about that, but let's talk first about how
Speaker 1: did you get to the point, because you had a
Speaker 1: really cool property there in Missouri, uh, that you that
Speaker 1: you bought and you you developed and you've you've sold
Speaker 1: since then. You sold a couple of years ago. But
Speaker 1: how did you settle on that property first? Ah, you know,
Speaker 1: really it was the area. It actually was in Mercer County,
Speaker 1: kind of the North Central Missouri. I knew I wanted
Speaker 1: to be around that area. I've been hunting just south
Speaker 1: of there actually, um about gosh, I don't know his
Speaker 1: Sullivan County, but the half hour from that property for
Speaker 1: several years and I had always go up to Mercer
Speaker 1: Tony and around Princeton and have supper and all that stuff.
Speaker 1: And boy, I'd see these big bucks be pulling in
Speaker 1: all the time on these guys trailers in the back
Speaker 1: of these trucks and it was pretty amazing to see
Speaker 1: all those successful hunters and I thought, well, this area
Speaker 1: is pretty special. And so that specific property, I will
Speaker 1: tell you it was. The eighty acres was the first
Speaker 1: piece at Boughton and I acquired another thirty acres a
Speaker 1: year later right alongside of it. But it was all Tony.
Speaker 1: It came down to all about access on how that
Speaker 1: property laid out, how I thought that I could I
Speaker 1: could get in there and and yeah, go, you know,
Speaker 1: enter and exit from the stand locations without really putting
Speaker 1: pressure on that property. Yeah, so you you kind of
Speaker 1: read the area and you know this is probably being
Speaker 1: a little facetious, but it really seems like there are
Speaker 1: places out there that are are like Iowa, two point
Speaker 1: oh or kind of Iowa Jr, you might say, and
Speaker 1: you know I I'm hunting a property in southwestern Wisconsin
Speaker 1: along the river in the bluff country there, and it's
Speaker 1: you know, I can look and see Iowa across the
Speaker 1: river and when you drive around there in the evenings
Speaker 1: and looking bean fields, you feel like you're in Iowa.
Speaker 1: It's it's different, you know, the season structure and some
Speaker 1: of the pressure and stuff, but you know you can
Speaker 1: get pretty close and that area that you were hunting
Speaker 1: in in Missouri. You know it's Missouri, so it's not Iowa,
Speaker 1: but man, you're you're bumping up on the kind of
Speaker 1: hunting that you can find sometimes in Iowa. Absolutely absolutely,
Speaker 1: and I can tell you one of the biggest selling
Speaker 1: points for me was before I even purchased the property,
Speaker 1: I tried to meet the neighbors and and understand, you know,
Speaker 1: how how they hunted, got to know them a little
Speaker 1: bit more and where they were at and in what
Speaker 1: I call that, you know, your typical hunter's journey. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, are there a bunch of young guys and
Speaker 1: gals out there that are shooting everything, or do they
Speaker 1: have management practices in place? All those things factored into
Speaker 1: that property that is knowing, you know, if I put
Speaker 1: the time and effort in and did the right things
Speaker 1: out there from an habitat perspective, that I could, you know,
Speaker 1: contribute with my neighbor in producing some pretty good white tales. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and that at that point you really can't make that
Speaker 1: enough because even though you know you're talking about it
Speaker 1: from the perspective of, you know, being a potential land buyer,
Speaker 1: you know with with the interest of just, you know,
Speaker 1: having a good place to hunt, but really, when you're
Speaker 1: talking about keeping bucks dumb or keeping Bucks killable and
Speaker 1: not nocturnal and the whole thing, what's going on around
Speaker 1: you is as important as what you're doing. Yes, so
Speaker 1: how did you manage to do that though? How did
Speaker 1: you manage to just did you go on on x
Speaker 1: and look up everybody around here? What did you do
Speaker 1: to to end up meeting the neighbors? I did, and actually, Um,
Speaker 1: there's UH, one of the gentlemen actually lived in Kansas City,
Speaker 1: so he was hard to connect with that first, but
Speaker 1: then I found where he stayed around there when he
Speaker 1: hunted the property and were we were able to connect
Speaker 1: and before too long, Tony, I can tell you we
Speaker 1: were sharing Um, Troi cam photos of historic trail camp
Speaker 1: photos that he had and I could tell he was
Speaker 1: feeling me out a little bit as well, just trying
Speaker 1: to understand what my approach was. Um, at that time,
Speaker 1: you know, I had two young daughters that hunted with
Speaker 1: me and for them I just wanted them to have
Speaker 1: a great experience. It wasn't always about shooting a mature animal,
Speaker 1: but he understood how, you know, I would approach that
Speaker 1: property and and if they did shoot a smaller one
Speaker 1: or something like that. For the first year he was
Speaker 1: totally happy with it, but he knew I wasn't putting on,
Speaker 1: you know, UN needed pressure on that property as well. Sure,
Speaker 1: and I knew the same thing from him. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: that's him. That's really important. So would you say, well,
Speaker 1: I got two things for you here. So you must
Speaker 1: be like a trust fund kid or you must have
Speaker 1: inherited a ton of money to buy that land. No, no, no,
Speaker 1: my goodness. I'll tell you what, if you knew my
Speaker 1: humble beginnings in northern Minnesota, our Fraser was constantly full
Speaker 1: while game, because that's how we survived. Absolutely not. It's
Speaker 1: hard work, you know. Twelve years at CABELA's. I was
Speaker 1: a police officer even before then, but just putting in
Speaker 1: the time, saving up. It always been my lifelong dream
Speaker 1: to own my own eighty acres. I don't know why
Speaker 1: eighty acres always stuck with me, but it did, and
Speaker 1: boy it took me some time. You know, I went
Speaker 1: through that journey knock and talk and getting permission Tony
Speaker 1: to leasing, being able to afford to lease a property
Speaker 1: and then, you know, own a piece of property. That's
Speaker 1: that's I think a lot of people can relate to
Speaker 1: that journey. Yeah, and that, you know, you remind me
Speaker 1: because people here, you know, they'll hear, oh, he bought
Speaker 1: eighty acres and another thirty acres in a sweet county
Speaker 1: in Missouri right along the Iowa border, and people just assume,
Speaker 1: you know, that we're talking to somebody who came from
Speaker 1: money or you know there's something going on there. And
Speaker 1: this the same thing happens to my buddy the land.
Speaker 1: I was just mentioning that I'm hunting in southwestern Wisconsin.
Speaker 1: He told me because I met this this friend of
Speaker 1: mine fishing tournaments when I was like twenty and we
Speaker 1: just we hit it off. We love to hunt, we
Speaker 1: love to fish and so we fished together for a
Speaker 1: long time and they started hunting together and he told
Speaker 1: me after he bought this property, he bought ninety acres there.
Speaker 1: He said when he got his first job, which he
Speaker 1: still works at. He's worked his way up at this
Speaker 1: insurance company, he said he wrote down his goals and
Speaker 1: one of them was to buy eighty acres somewhere that
Speaker 1: would be just like that he would want to hunt
Speaker 1: and that his future kids would have a place to hunt.
Speaker 1: And it took him, you know, twenty years to get there,
Speaker 1: but it was always a goal of his. That's correct. Yeah,
Speaker 1: now I can relate to that for sure. And and
Speaker 1: you know, thank goodness I have such a supporting wife.
Speaker 1: You know, she we didn't have a house on the
Speaker 1: hill in Sydney Nebraska when we bought that property. I mean,
Speaker 1: if you've been to Sydney Nebraska before the corporate office
Speaker 1: or the former corporate office of Cabella's, you can see
Speaker 1: all these very nice houses. And now we bought a
Speaker 1: foreclosure man down by the railroad tracks and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: she supported me in my effort to continue to save
Speaker 1: up to buy that property. So we went out without,
Speaker 1: you know, some things as a family, but at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, those experiences we had out there
Speaker 1: as a family. You know me and my daughters, and
Speaker 1: you can't put a price tag on that. Brother. Yeah,
Speaker 1: how long were you a police officer? Four years. That
Speaker 1: was enough. That was enough time. That was enough. That
Speaker 1: was in Appleton, Wisconsin. I was surrounded by great men
Speaker 1: and women at that department. Yeah, and then, and then,
Speaker 1: how long did you work for CABELA's? Twelve years, twelve years,
Speaker 1: and then we were bought out by my division. CABELLA's
Speaker 1: outdoor adventures was brought out by worldwide Trophy Adventures and Um,
Speaker 1: I knew with that transition with bass pro shops that
Speaker 1: that town may may lose a lot of folks and
Speaker 1: I figured it was time to move on and find
Speaker 1: a different career and think, goodness, Steve Man at base
Speaker 1: camp police and give me a shot. And it's been
Speaker 1: outstanding since two thousand and eighteen. I love it here.
Speaker 1: And when you when you were a police officer in Wisconsin,
Speaker 1: weren't you hunting a bunch of public land? And Northern
Speaker 1: Wisconsin at that point was yes, and ago, all the
Speaker 1: way I mean north, in any any place where I
Speaker 1: could get away from people. That's I really cut my
Speaker 1: teeth up there on public land. And you know, being
Speaker 1: from northern Minnesota, Tony, you know there's a lot of
Speaker 1: public land up there too. I mean we we went
Speaker 1: out and hung sets on and you know how many
Speaker 1: thousands and thousands of forest land they have up there.
Speaker 1: and to find the right trail to sit on that night,
Speaker 1: because you're not hunting over agriculture or anything like that.
Speaker 1: It's your your hardwoods or or your typical northern Minnesota
Speaker 1: deer hunt. You know. Well, yeah, I mean really, we
Speaker 1: we look for all these ways to, you know, bring
Speaker 1: the deer down to our level and, you know, trick them.
Speaker 1: But I always say you know, if you if you
Speaker 1: can go to the big woods, and I'm positive this
Speaker 1: applies to a lot of southern hunters in some of
Speaker 1: the big woods down south too, if you can, you know,
Speaker 1: consistently get on deer and, you know, any level of
Speaker 1: decent buck in those situations, especially on public land, I
Speaker 1: think you can go most places and the deer are
Speaker 1: going to seem, you know, maybe not dumb to you,
Speaker 1: but just easier to figure out correct. I couldn't agree more.
Speaker 1: I mean growing up, growing up in northern Minnesota. Tony,
Speaker 1: I can't remember. I don't know if you remember this,
Speaker 1: but you used to have to put in for a
Speaker 1: dough tag. You know, it was tough, tough hunting grown up,
Speaker 1: but it just be able to passion even more. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's that those I think hunting some starvation spots like
Speaker 1: that really they kind of they kind of like center
Speaker 1: your focus a little bit and you go okay, like
Speaker 1: I would love to have a more fun, more enjoyable hunt.
Speaker 1: And when you do that stuff, it's not like it's
Speaker 1: not fun, but it's a different kind of thing to
Speaker 1: be in such a low dear density spot where you're just,
Speaker 1: you know, you're kind of really working in the moment,
Speaker 1: like you said, you know, find a trail or find something,
Speaker 1: but it's not like it's not like you can say
Speaker 1: I know dear are going to bed there and they're
Speaker 1: gonna go to that field or or at the very
Speaker 1: least I know I know dear going to end up
Speaker 1: in this food source up there in that bigwood situation.
Speaker 1: It's such a different deal. It's totally different. You're looking
Speaker 1: for transitions and just the most minor things that you
Speaker 1: can capitalize on. The topography of the property or transitions
Speaker 1: within the woods between hard woods and Um, you know,
Speaker 1: your poplar trees and all that stuff up there. I
Speaker 1: mean you're you'll find it, you just you've got to
Speaker 1: put on a little bit more time. I think. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I really think, and I know you've done this quite
Speaker 1: a bit, when I am working on big woods deer,
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm elk hunting, where most of my
Speaker 1: goal is to find a concentration of animals and when
Speaker 1: I do that I have this little window of time
Speaker 1: where I can work them and either I'm gonna blow
Speaker 1: them out or they're gonna move or I'm gonna run
Speaker 1: out of time or something. But you're like the you
Speaker 1: know when you when you're hunting, you know I will Illinois,
Speaker 1: something like that. You're like, I know there's a ton
Speaker 1: of deer here if I can see trees, like I
Speaker 1: know there's deer there, but when you get up into
Speaker 1: that north woods or those big wood situations, you're like,
Speaker 1: I gotta just find some deer first, right. Yes, yea.
Speaker 1: The last experience I had of something like that, Tony,
Speaker 1: was I actually made a trip to northeast Washington. I
Speaker 1: believe I was probably maybe ten miles south of the
Speaker 1: British Columbia border, up there in the in the dead
Speaker 1: of winter and December, hunting with the bow like an idiot,
Speaker 1: you know who, using my climber to get up there
Speaker 1: and it was humbling. It's the first time I ever
Speaker 1: hunted in the mountains for a white tail. But I
Speaker 1: missed that challenge. I hate to say it. You know,
Speaker 1: I feel a little bit more spoiled now that I've
Speaker 1: hunted in Nebraska and in Iowa, Wisconsin a little bit
Speaker 1: now Indiana. Um It all for me, Tony, and I
Speaker 1: was has come down to in order to kill a
Speaker 1: big buck, you should be hunting where there's big bucks,
Speaker 1: right and your opportunities in northern Minnesota and, let's say,
Speaker 1: northeast Washington. For me it was a little bit different tactic. Uh,
Speaker 1: I want to talk about that, but I want to
Speaker 1: back up a second. How does anyone end up going
Speaker 1: from where you were to Washington for a late season
Speaker 1: hunt like that? Just the challenge, Tony. I've since I
Speaker 1: was probably fifteen years old, I've wanted to shoot, you know,
Speaker 1: an antlered white tale in every state possible and through research.
Speaker 1: This could be wrong, but I think I found that
Speaker 1: there's forty four states that hold white tales, and so
Speaker 1: my quest before I kicked the bucket here is I
Speaker 1: would love to shoot, you know, White Tail Buck with
Speaker 1: my bow and every state possible. And that one came
Speaker 1: up that year. I had time off and made the
Speaker 1: drive and went up there and made it happen. It
Speaker 1: wasn't the biggest buck in my life, but I can
Speaker 1: tell you through the experience it was probably one of
Speaker 1: the most special besides the deer that my my daughters
Speaker 1: have harvested. How did you find a buck out there
Speaker 1: in Washington? What was the strategy? Oh boy, Um, honestly, Tony,
Speaker 1: is probably more luck than anything, but I can tell you,
Speaker 1: pulling out your map and if you've got a favorite
Speaker 1: hunting map app out there, that they're so valuable because
Speaker 1: you can do scouting from a thousand foot view and
Speaker 1: really narrow down your focus on where you need to
Speaker 1: go at seven days to get it done. I knew
Speaker 1: there was a lot of snow on the ground. Um,
Speaker 1: so I focused on where I thought I needed to
Speaker 1: be first and then I let the sign tell me
Speaker 1: exactly where I needed to hang with all that snow
Speaker 1: on the ground. Interesting what level. I guess I should
Speaker 1: say this. How many states do you have left to
Speaker 1: kill an Antler Buck in? Oh Boy, I'm pretty sure
Speaker 1: I'm at twenty three states right now. So what would
Speaker 1: that be? I mean, not, not too far. I'm forty
Speaker 1: five years old, so I've got, you know, almost twenty
Speaker 1: more to go, I guess you boy, you broke through
Speaker 1: the halfway point. That's right. That's right. Did you do
Speaker 1: you find? Because that sounds like a sort of a
Speaker 1: young man's goal. That sounds like somebody who's, you know,
Speaker 1: like really getting after it and and has the bug.
Speaker 1: But it also sounds like a goal that would sort
Speaker 1: of get put on the back burner when you have
Speaker 1: kids and now your your focus has changed a little bit. Yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: and then if you buy your own property, you tend
Speaker 1: to start thinking about all the efforts and all the
Speaker 1: work you put out there and and it's harder to
Speaker 1: get away. Um, I think that's one of the opportunities here.
Speaker 1: Actually working for at Leasing Company, I get to see
Speaker 1: all these great properties come in and, contrary to belief,
Speaker 1: I don't get first pick. They always go out to
Speaker 1: our our memberships first. But if I do see one
Speaker 1: on there and I'm a member as well and I
Speaker 1: can get it. I can get it, so it's that's
Speaker 1: kind of helped out a little bit. Yeah, and so
Speaker 1: do you? Do you focus more of your efforts, because
Speaker 1: you you're you're a guy who's traveled a lot for
Speaker 1: hunting opportunities. Do you focus more of your efforts now,
Speaker 1: with the girls at the age they are, by staying
Speaker 1: closer to home? Absolutely, you know, you only have your
Speaker 1: kids for a short period of time in this life
Speaker 1: at home and cherish you every moment with them. So
Speaker 1: when they're when they're able and willing to go out
Speaker 1: with me, I I do. And do you learn? Because
Speaker 1: I've been talking about this and writing about this quite
Speaker 1: a bit lately because something that happened to me that
Speaker 1: I just didn't see coming was, you know, I've I've
Speaker 1: got a couple of little properties in northern Wisconsin that
Speaker 1: I bought, you know, within the last decade, and I
Speaker 1: don't really like hunting them myself that much. I kind
Speaker 1: of I really like working on them. I like working
Speaker 1: on little food plots and, you know, planting apple trees
Speaker 1: and all that stuff. I love taking my daughters there
Speaker 1: and one thing that I just like has hit me
Speaker 1: so hard is how much I learned about hunting by
Speaker 1: having to take somebody who doesn't really know a lot
Speaker 1: about hunting. Yeah, that is so, so true. Uh. One
Speaker 1: I think a lot of times you start talking to
Speaker 1: them about the basics, right, and I think we there's
Speaker 1: all these gidgets and gadgets and you name it out
Speaker 1: there for US hunters to the next best thing. But
Speaker 1: you start walking out there with somebody who's got fresh
Speaker 1: eyes and you're teaching them about sign and why you're
Speaker 1: sitting up where you're sitting, and it's just the pure
Speaker 1: basics of hunting and I think you learn from it,
Speaker 1: but you also remember a lot of things you probably
Speaker 1: discount nowadays. Yea, well, that's that's one thing that hit
Speaker 1: me was, you know, when you when you have enough
Speaker 1: experience and you walk into the woods, you I don't
Speaker 1: know what you're doing. You're just like I'm looking for this,
Speaker 1: I'm going to sit this, or you just it's pretty
Speaker 1: easy to figure out how to like always at least
Speaker 1: feel like you're keeping yourself in the game. But when
Speaker 1: you have to take somebody who's new to this and
Speaker 1: not only, like you said, explain it, but but put
Speaker 1: them in a position where it's like I gotta get
Speaker 1: a deer within twenty yards of them broadside, and and
Speaker 1: we have to really do this together. Even though you
Speaker 1: know you're the one kind of driving the ship, you're
Speaker 1: still like, you know, if they move or they're in
Speaker 1: a situation where they're they're gonna maybe get busted. You,
Speaker 1: you're like, you have to think about all that stuff
Speaker 1: and man it. I feel like my setups for my
Speaker 1: daughters and and that process is helping me become a
Speaker 1: better hunter in ways I just did not see coming,
Speaker 1: no doubt, no doubt. And there's no better moments out
Speaker 1: there than with your own kids, you know. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's pretty Badass, man, and it's it's something. You know.
Speaker 1: There's probably a bunch of youngsters listening to this who
Speaker 1: are like maybe can't really relate to it yet, but
Speaker 1: you know how this is. And so you said you're
Speaker 1: forty five, I'm forty two. Man, there there's just things
Speaker 1: in life with when you start having kids and you
Speaker 1: start realizing stuff that you just you just do not
Speaker 1: see coming, you know. Like I was, I was thinking
Speaker 1: about this the other day, like how much I love
Speaker 1: coaching my girls and softball or basketball and some of
Speaker 1: the other teammates and just how fun it is to
Speaker 1: like see them excited and and just like challenged. And
Speaker 1: I feel the same way when I take them hunting,
Speaker 1: like there's this like anticipation, there's a little nervousness, but
Speaker 1: it's like a learning process and you can see just
Speaker 1: the confidence come in and how exciting it is like
Speaker 1: to watch somebody who hasn't seen a million year off
Speaker 1: a tree standard from a ground blind. All of a
Speaker 1: sudden deer walks in and you can hear their breath
Speaker 1: just like you know, the breathing gets more excited and
Speaker 1: it's just like it's so freaking cool on you can
Speaker 1: feed on that for the rest of the year too.
Speaker 1: You know, it's it's those haunts are are probably the
Speaker 1: haunts I look forward to them most. Yeah, you think, uh,
Speaker 1: and I think that's I think that's an interesting thing
Speaker 1: for a guy like you to say, because you've hunted
Speaker 1: a lot of different stuff and spent a good portion
Speaker 1: of your life, you know, kind of chasing those those
Speaker 1: hunting adventures out there, and to hear that is it's
Speaker 1: interesting because I think a lot of people would look
Speaker 1: at you, know, your history and some of the some
Speaker 1: of the different, you know, phases of your hunting career
Speaker 1: and go that's that's got to be the best. Like
Speaker 1: if you're traveling all over and you're chasing that dream
Speaker 1: mckillan and Antler buck in every state, or you're drawing
Speaker 1: a mountain goat tag somewhere, like I think a lot
Speaker 1: of people woul look at that and go you're not
Speaker 1: going to top that moment. Man, like that's the best.
Speaker 1: But it changes. There's there's it's different, yes, and all
Speaker 1: of those things, you know, pale in comparison to sitting
Speaker 1: there with your child and watching things happen the way
Speaker 1: you you prayed and wish they would happen, and just
Speaker 1: to see them go through those experiences. You really of
Speaker 1: it because you know when we were going through our
Speaker 1: first experiences, we we felt the same way and you
Speaker 1: can relate to it and that bond, after they've been
Speaker 1: through that, that bond with your your child out there
Speaker 1: just continues to grow and and strengthen because you can
Speaker 1: see the same appreciation you had when you had those
Speaker 1: experiences in your own child and what they're going through and, Um,
Speaker 1: there's just there's nothing better I'll take a white tailed
Speaker 1: deer hunt with my kid or a Turkey hunt with
Speaker 1: my kid any day over what I believe is the
Speaker 1: pinnacle of what I've ever done, which is the mountain
Speaker 1: goat hunt in Idaho. Do you do you worry with
Speaker 1: your daughters, because I know you know, starting where you
Speaker 1: started in northern Minnesota, I know they're hunting is a
Speaker 1: hell of a lot easier and probably more productive. Do
Speaker 1: you worry about that at all? Because I think about
Speaker 1: that with my daughters a lot, you know, like my
Speaker 1: girls put in a couple of days and their first
Speaker 1: year and it took me four full seasons to kill
Speaker 1: my first year and I'm like, am I making this
Speaker 1: too easy for them? You know, I think a lot
Speaker 1: of things have changed though Tony too, if you look
Speaker 1: at the management practices and just pure you know, deer
Speaker 1: numbers out there. Um, you know, I could probably take
Speaker 1: them back to northern Minnesota and have a much better chance,
Speaker 1: but I do get get what you're saying. Are they?
Speaker 1: I think there are some folks out there that, you know,
Speaker 1: it's the third year hunting and they've already killed, you know,
Speaker 1: three bucks over, one fifties and one sixties. And that's
Speaker 1: a little bit different. But yeah, I think so. I
Speaker 1: can relate to what you're saying there. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: it's it's just it's a little bit of a balancing
Speaker 1: act because you don't want it so easy that they
Speaker 1: don't appreciate it, but you don't want it so hard
Speaker 1: that they hate it. Right. Let me ask you this
Speaker 1: because I get I get hit up for this all
Speaker 1: the time. Uh, do you feel like, did you feel
Speaker 1: any differently when you're so you have daughters that you
Speaker 1: got into hunting? Did you kind of have to recalibrate
Speaker 1: yourself a little bit taking girls out versus what you
Speaker 1: might think you would have to do taking boys out?
Speaker 1: Because I know, man, I've got buddies who have boys
Speaker 1: and some of them are just your typical give me
Speaker 1: a BB gun, I'm gonna kill everything. Give me a
Speaker 1: pellet gun, I'm gonna kill everything like there's a there's
Speaker 1: a blood lust in them, and at least my experience
Speaker 1: with my daughters is like there's not, there's not that
Speaker 1: same kind of blood lust, but there is like a
Speaker 1: real competitive nature to them and there is like a
Speaker 1: desire to just see animals and and be out there right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that I thought that the biggest difference from when I
Speaker 1: was grown up in the experiences I had and how
Speaker 1: I felt, you know, out there hunting. I could definitely
Speaker 1: see with my daughters I had to be more articulate
Speaker 1: about what their experience and how they would feel before
Speaker 1: they even felt it. Um and, and I got it
Speaker 1: from taking my oldest out. Oh, Tony, you sat in
Speaker 1: that food plot with me in Missouri. We had a dandy,
Speaker 1: Dandy Buck come out and I had trained her so
Speaker 1: well that we would not take a quartering two shot
Speaker 1: at all. And knowing the the the rifles she was
Speaker 1: using at that time, when this buck stepped out, it
Speaker 1: was a no brainer. Yes, it was quartering to a
Speaker 1: smidge in, but I could not convince her to pull
Speaker 1: the trigger, to put those crosses where they needed to be,
Speaker 1: because it was broadside or nothing right. Um and she
Speaker 1: held me off, Tony, I she absolutely held me off.
Speaker 1: I have it all on video and it walked out
Speaker 1: of our life forever and you hear a big sigh
Speaker 1: from me like, oh my gosh, what just happened? But
Speaker 1: she was so proud of herself, like Nope, Dad, you
Speaker 1: said not to do it, so I'm not going to
Speaker 1: do it and uh, what's it's a funny story, Tony,
Speaker 1: but I ended up killing that deer h two and
Speaker 1: a half years later and and so it's still part
Speaker 1: of the family. Uh. And she doesn't. She loves it
Speaker 1: as much as I do, you know, because she had
Speaker 1: that experience with me. But I guess with with the
Speaker 1: girls it's it's always been more about the experience and
Speaker 1: emotion that goes into what we're doing and I feel
Speaker 1: like they've been so connected to that experience on a
Speaker 1: different level than than what I had because of growing up.
Speaker 1: What I want to do is get out there and
Speaker 1: put an Arrow in as many things as I could.
Speaker 1: Right with them, they're they're more specific to no, I
Speaker 1: want to shoot the deer. You want me to shoot dead? Ye, well,
Speaker 1: and that's why I just had a conversation uh, with
Speaker 1: Nicole Belki, uh, who's you know, she's in the hunting
Speaker 1: industry and she hunts a lot. We were talking about
Speaker 1: a mutual friend of ours who UH is, you know,
Speaker 1: she's relatively new to hunting, but she's through her job,
Speaker 1: she's got to hunt quite a bit of different stuff
Speaker 1: and she's she's mostly a rifle hunter. And they call
Speaker 1: her the dainty sniper because she's little, she's petite, but
Speaker 1: she's a she's a she's a really good shot and
Speaker 1: you know, Nicole was explaining like watching, watching Aaron shoot,
Speaker 1: and she's like, you know, she takes so much time
Speaker 1: to make sure that that shot is perfect, and that's
Speaker 1: something that I kind of hadn't really faced with my daughters,
Speaker 1: but I like has been happening where it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: you and I, let's say we go out and we
Speaker 1: call in some Turkeys and we've got a shotgun, like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's just pretty much over. Like you,
Speaker 1: you know, the first good shot you get, you're gonna
Speaker 1: dump them and it's over and you sort of take
Speaker 1: that for granted. And then you hunt with somebody who's
Speaker 1: like I'm not going to screw this shot up, like
Speaker 1: I am doing everything in my power to ensure that
Speaker 1: this is like this is going to go exactly how
Speaker 1: it's supposed to go because of how I've been told.
Speaker 1: And that's like a nice reminder that I think we
Speaker 1: forget about because we have so much experience and you know,
Speaker 1: you might hunt with people who you know don't don't
Speaker 1: think about shots that way as much. But when you
Speaker 1: get out there with somebody who does, and I don't
Speaker 1: know if this is, you know, more specific to to
Speaker 1: new women hunters or not, I really don't know, but
Speaker 1: when you see that, it's really interesting because there is
Speaker 1: like such a focus there don't screw this up, like
Speaker 1: make this shot exactly how you're supposed to, and it's
Speaker 1: pretty neat to see. Yes, it is. It is a
Speaker 1: great reminder. Yeah, I can tell you there's been deer
Speaker 1: in my life that I've walked out that I didn't
Speaker 1: take the first good opportunity that I probably should have.
Speaker 1: But what's always been in the back of my mind
Speaker 1: is that is what I've I've planted implanted in in
Speaker 1: in my daughter's uh, you know, hunting ethics and and
Speaker 1: and all that stuff, is just don't take that shot. Um,
Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of deer have have gotten
Speaker 1: away because of that, which is good. You know, you
Speaker 1: don't want to wound an animal, but I totally get that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's uh, I think it's one of the I think
Speaker 1: it's neat that that exists. I think it's also a
Speaker 1: good reminder of how, you know, new hunters don't necessarily
Speaker 1: understand how to think about shots very well. Like when
Speaker 1: you think about you know somebody who's season, they're watching
Speaker 1: a deer move and they're thinking, my point of impact
Speaker 1: just changed by three inches, or I need to aim here,
Speaker 1: I need to bring that pin back a little bit,
Speaker 1: or the crosshairs back or forward, and for us it's
Speaker 1: sort of automatic. into new hunters it's not. And so
Speaker 1: when you when you talk, when you preach that broadside
Speaker 1: or nothing game, it's like, okay, now now that's it.
Speaker 1: But you're not. You're not. They're not learning that that
Speaker 1: quartering away shot is great or or you can take
Speaker 1: that quartering too shot in the right situation if you
Speaker 1: can slip it in there, or it's not too severe,
Speaker 1: and that that just comes with experience. But you have
Speaker 1: to start with a baseline somewhere, and often it's just that,
Speaker 1: that that broadside shot, and here's where you aim every time,
Speaker 1: and that's like a jumping off point for them until
Speaker 1: they have enough experience out there. Right. I think that
Speaker 1: the biggest thing for me, Tony, was knowing. I believe
Speaker 1: in Missouri you could start hunting. Forgive me, I could
Speaker 1: be wrong, but I believe it was eight years old
Speaker 1: with with a parent, and so when you have a
Speaker 1: and I waited until my girls were ten. They just
Speaker 1: weren't ready and weren'ting fishing enough with with a rifle
Speaker 1: yet to get out there during youth season. Um, but
Speaker 1: I did not want them to have that bad experience. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: just just curious. What, what rifle did you start them with? Um,
Speaker 1: they both were shooting youth model to forty three at it.
Speaker 1: That's a good caliber. So let's let's talk about your
Speaker 1: Missouri property a little bit. How did you because you
Speaker 1: you mentioned when you were when you were in the market,
Speaker 1: and you you like that area, had some experience close
Speaker 1: to there and you talked to the neighbors, you saw
Speaker 1: how it laid out and you mentioned that access. Wise,
Speaker 1: you could sort of envision this property turning into something
Speaker 1: where you knew you'd be able to get into stand
Speaker 1: spots and and set things up so you wouldn't educate
Speaker 1: the deer. How did you know that? Like, how did
Speaker 1: you look at this? What did this property have that
Speaker 1: you looked at that said that to you? Um, honestly,
Speaker 1: you know, if if I were to go back a
Speaker 1: little bit and think about this, I believe it was
Speaker 1: more or less the prevailing winds during the time I'd
Speaker 1: be hunting Um and and really the there was a
Speaker 1: little maintenance access road that kind of bordered the east
Speaker 1: side of it and knew I could get some sell
Speaker 1: side access as well. So I thought, you know, prevailing
Speaker 1: winds northwest and I know where these deer are betted.
Speaker 1: I can get behind them on their betting area or
Speaker 1: I could get front of them through an easement that
Speaker 1: was kind of on the on the northeast side of
Speaker 1: that property as well, to get them coming from their
Speaker 1: bed and going to a destination field or one of
Speaker 1: my my food plots. Um. It really dialed into where
Speaker 1: I believe these deer were betted. When I walked that property.
Speaker 1: One of the best things that I found, and I
Speaker 1: was able to walk this property in April, and clearly
Speaker 1: I mean the amount of sheds I found in there Tony,
Speaker 1: for there there had to be, you know, sheds in there,
Speaker 1: maybe three years old. They were not on a little bit,
Speaker 1: but I could tell that these bucks were hanging in
Speaker 1: their late season, no matter what. Um and being mostly
Speaker 1: a timbered track with some destination fields to the west
Speaker 1: where these deer, where I found their sheds were in
Speaker 1: some pretty good thickets. So I had a really good
Speaker 1: idea that deer were betting their late season. AH, they
Speaker 1: would probably be there, you know, in in the early season.
Speaker 1: For me too, it's just natural betting areas Um and
Speaker 1: taking a step back and looking at a thousand foot view.
Speaker 1: I actually then contacted a local logger in there and
Speaker 1: I had them create some access points for me, uh,
Speaker 1: and got some good timber value out of it so
Speaker 1: that I knew I could sneak in uh to those deers.
Speaker 1: So there were certain access points I had to create,
Speaker 1: but I had the luxury of that because, you know,
Speaker 1: I owned the property at that time. So how how
Speaker 1: right were you when you when you say you're looking
Speaker 1: at this and you know, you walk it and you go, okay,
Speaker 1: prevailing winds or north or west, or northwest in the fall.
Speaker 1: I know I can cut in on this east side
Speaker 1: or coming from the south and you know, you you
Speaker 1: lay that plan out, but you know this isn't like
Speaker 1: a perfectly flat piece of ground. You know, like there's
Speaker 1: there's some terrain to it. I mean, how close were you,
Speaker 1: like how how close to getting it really, really right
Speaker 1: were you the first year I felt like I was
Speaker 1: spot on my very first sit on that property Tony,
Speaker 1: October six. I still remember it because I drove from
Speaker 1: Sydney Nebraska, started pretty early in the morning. It's an
Speaker 1: eight and a half hour trip out there, pulling the property.
Speaker 1: About one o'clock in the afternoon. There was a huge
Speaker 1: cold front coming through. Temperatures are really going to drop
Speaker 1: and I was in my stand probably by two and
Speaker 1: I end up killing a hundred and fifty three inch
Speaker 1: deer by three thirty in the afternoon. Um, so, and
Speaker 1: I felt like spot on. Right. He came from exactly
Speaker 1: where I thought these deer would be betted and and
Speaker 1: knew he was going to start. Heck, he was already
Speaker 1: making a scrape. You know. That's the first time I
Speaker 1: saw him was when he was making a scrape just
Speaker 1: that that cold that cold weather, had got him on
Speaker 1: his feet a lot earlier. Um, and this is by
Speaker 1: the way, this is I didn't have. I didn't pull
Speaker 1: a single trail CAM card or nothing. I had him
Speaker 1: out there but I didn't even know I had this
Speaker 1: d a camera until after I had shot him and
Speaker 1: went and pulled cards. Now what changed, though, the very
Speaker 1: next year, is I started to do some habitat improvement
Speaker 1: and I started adding. Added like a three acre food
Speaker 1: plot and I cleared out a logging road and widen
Speaker 1: did a little bit and planted that into some food
Speaker 1: for once. I did that, my initial assessment would not
Speaker 1: have worked. I struggled my second year because I had
Speaker 1: made some habitat changes in there and therefore I changed
Speaker 1: the deer movement interesting. So, in doing something that would
Speaker 1: almost universally be viewed as a positive improvement to your
Speaker 1: hunting land, you you changed the game for yourself. I
Speaker 1: did I did. I took what was pretty much a
Speaker 1: three acre overgrown little pocket inside that woods and and
Speaker 1: mowed it down and spread it and planted and clover
Speaker 1: and chickory and I thought now I'm in it right,
Speaker 1: all set up on the edge of this thing. It's
Speaker 1: a beautiful in the pocket type of food plot. And
Speaker 1: there you sat on that with me. It was gorgeous.
Speaker 1: But once I did that, those deer no longer used
Speaker 1: the same trails because now they were skirting the food
Speaker 1: plot and they were wind checking, uh, you know, the
Speaker 1: food plot, versus walking the regular trails right through the
Speaker 1: center of that thing. That is that is something that
Speaker 1: you you really can't know until you experience it, and
Speaker 1: you know, you get your hands on a property that
Speaker 1: you buy or that you lease or, you know, maybe
Speaker 1: it's your gramma's farm and you can go in there
Speaker 1: and do some improvement to it. That's not something that
Speaker 1: we think about a lot where you know, you you
Speaker 1: make that kill plot or you you do that improvement
Speaker 1: and think, okay, well, the deer always just moved along
Speaker 1: this ridge. Now they have even more of a reason
Speaker 1: to do it. But you also start hunting there a
Speaker 1: lot and you change the cover and you change the
Speaker 1: habitat and you might actually, you know, push them to
Speaker 1: do something a little bit different than you expect instead
Speaker 1: of just having this easy setup where they're just drawn
Speaker 1: to that spot. That's exactly what had happened. I learned
Speaker 1: a lot from my second year of landownership. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: being eight hours away, I didn't get there a lot Tony.
Speaker 1: You know, it was tough to get out there, but
Speaker 1: when I was out there I worked on some weekends
Speaker 1: and and did what I needed to do. So by
Speaker 1: the time hunting season came around it was a humbling
Speaker 1: experience to see how my my improvements to that property
Speaker 1: absolutely changed the dynamic of how those those mature gears specifically,
Speaker 1: we're using that that property. Yeah, I mean I think
Speaker 1: there's a really a really poignant cautionary tale there, which
Speaker 1: is when we do something that we think is going
Speaker 1: to make it easier, it often comes with some baggage
Speaker 1: that we don't see common you know, like we we
Speaker 1: flip on the outdoor channel and we see dear get
Speaker 1: shot in food plots all day long and we're like okay, well,
Speaker 1: that's the answer. And Man, it can be, but it
Speaker 1: can also be something that convinces us, you know, kind
Speaker 1: of like trail camera usage or cell camera usage, where
Speaker 1: it's like this is the answer to my problems. It's
Speaker 1: like man, this, this can be the answer to some
Speaker 1: of your problems, but it can also create new ones. Yes,
Speaker 1: absolutely can. Yeah, the only way I got around that piece, Tony,
Speaker 1: the next year's I decided I kind of during the
Speaker 1: UH shed season. I could clearly see the established trails
Speaker 1: around that food PLAT and how deer we're moving around
Speaker 1: me in places where I would never see them right.
Speaker 1: But what I what I did recognize is there were
Speaker 1: certain spots on that trail where they literally could see
Speaker 1: the food plot and if nothing was out there during
Speaker 1: you know, the Rut, it's not going to pull in
Speaker 1: a book. So I just did plot screen all the
Speaker 1: way around that and and picking it up a little
Speaker 1: bit and dropped a couple of trees to get the
Speaker 1: deer to move, move around those trail was the way
Speaker 1: I wanted them to do it. And Uh, it changed
Speaker 1: the year three was phenomenal for me after I figured
Speaker 1: it out. Well, we're bumping into that on my buddies
Speaker 1: land down there in southwestern Wisconsin. We were. We were
Speaker 1: there in the end of the end of August hanging
Speaker 1: some stands. I was actually setting it up for our
Speaker 1: one week in November shoot. And you know, we realized
Speaker 1: last year when I hunted there, I saw all these
Speaker 1: bucks sent check this little knob up on this ridge
Speaker 1: and it was just like, I don't know, it was
Speaker 1: like the spot right, like what I was in a
Speaker 1: good spot, but that was every deer I saw either
Speaker 1: started there or ended there. And you know like what
Speaker 1: you're talking about with deer being able to look into
Speaker 1: your plot and go, well, there's nobody there, there's no
Speaker 1: reason to go there or scent check it. Really well
Speaker 1: they're going to do that instead of just blindly running
Speaker 1: out into those plots. And I kind of had that
Speaker 1: and epiphany about this. But when I got in there,
Speaker 1: it's just this knob that had all these doughbeds on it.
Speaker 1: It's a little thicker and the way it sets up
Speaker 1: is like if you're a buck and you want to
Speaker 1: send check that little betting area there, you don't have
Speaker 1: very many good options. You gotta Get up tight on
Speaker 1: it because it's a pretty tight little ridge and the
Speaker 1: way they're going to skirt around it, you're just like
Speaker 1: they kind of have to do this here if they
Speaker 1: know those are better there and they can't really cheat
Speaker 1: the system a whole lot. Like they got to get
Speaker 1: up in there pretty tight. And so when you know,
Speaker 1: when I walked in there, I'm like this is the spot,
Speaker 1: but then I look at the tree that I flagged
Speaker 1: in the winter when I was shed hunting out there
Speaker 1: and I go that tree is way too crooked to
Speaker 1: hang a double set in. And you know how it is.
Speaker 1: It falls away. And so in the in the winter,
Speaker 1: you look at it and go this is it, just
Speaker 1: and you don't really think it through. And then when
Speaker 1: you carry a bunch of crap in there to hang
Speaker 1: the stands. You look at it and go it's not
Speaker 1: right and I tried to force it. Put everything up,
Speaker 1: pulled everything down and I'm looking at it going you know,
Speaker 1: I I didn't think through the wind on this situation
Speaker 1: very well, and that's why I want to ask you
Speaker 1: how right you got your property in Missouri, because, as
Speaker 1: this property of my buddies, it's close enough to the
Speaker 1: Mississippi River where you know, when you're hunting there in
Speaker 1: the fall, all you hear is people shooting ducks all
Speaker 1: day long. And I mean you can look across the
Speaker 1: river to the Iowa side. So you're right there. And
Speaker 1: what I didn't realize was if I'm planning on a
Speaker 1: you know, a West wind or whatever, that river system,
Speaker 1: the Mississippi River system, is affecting those winds so much
Speaker 1: and those valleys that run up, you know, kind of
Speaker 1: parallel to the land, are perpendicular to the land. You
Speaker 1: can't you can't just look at the forecast and be
Speaker 1: like okay, this is what's gonna happen because when you
Speaker 1: get in there there's so many terrain features that might
Speaker 1: be affecting it. It's kind of like you gotta learn
Speaker 1: like on the fly and you learn how often you
Speaker 1: get it wrong. And so we were dealing with that
Speaker 1: on this spot because we're like this is a spot
Speaker 1: we want to hunt, but I know if it says
Speaker 1: a West Wind, that wind is gonna shoot up this
Speaker 1: valley here and it's not going to be exactly what
Speaker 1: I thought. And so you're always playing that game. And
Speaker 1: so even though it seems pretty easy to figure out,
Speaker 1: if you've got private land to work with, it's pretty good,
Speaker 1: a lot of times it's still kind of a constant
Speaker 1: work in progress. It is it is a matter of fact.
Speaker 1: You bring up a good point and there's one thing
Speaker 1: I'm going to do on my Indiana farm this year
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, I can look at my my
Speaker 1: my favorite hunting APP and and see which win direction is,
Speaker 1: and I can stand out on my front porch and
Speaker 1: see what the wind direction is. I can look at
Speaker 1: the flag pole right, but I really want to start
Speaker 1: going in and sitting some of these sets and and
Speaker 1: understanding truly how the wind is flowing in in some
Speaker 1: of these ravines or sidehills that I'm hunting, because I'm
Speaker 1: still figuring out my Indiana farm by the way, it
Speaker 1: takes more than a year. I got lucky, so lucky
Speaker 1: that first year in Missouri. Um, but the what the
Speaker 1: train can do to your the wind direction out on
Speaker 1: my property Missouri is ridiculous. There are that's where I sat.
Speaker 1: I actually set them up for a northwest or a
Speaker 1: westerly wind and I get down in there and that
Speaker 1: wind is going the opposite direction that I need that
Speaker 1: wind to go and I'm pulling out. So I'll ruin
Speaker 1: a morning hunt and I've really got to start taking
Speaker 1: better notes on truly what direction of wind I need
Speaker 1: to actually hunt in those spots. Yeah, and then you know,
Speaker 1: there's a good lesson there too, because I find myself
Speaker 1: a lot of times I'll go this, this spot is
Speaker 1: perfect for a South East Wind, or this spot is
Speaker 1: perfect for a north or west wind, and if I
Speaker 1: get into something where I'm like it's got to be
Speaker 1: straight north or I'm screwed, or it's got to be
Speaker 1: straight out of the West, I find myself either sitting
Speaker 1: places where I'm like this is not so great, like
Speaker 1: I'm probably gonna get busted, or doing what you did,
Speaker 1: which is like you get in there and go I
Speaker 1: can't do it, I gotta get out, and then you
Speaker 1: might sand bag of morning or you might go to
Speaker 1: a secondary spot and it's just never usually doesn't work
Speaker 1: out very well that way. And so the more the
Speaker 1: more your setups allow for a couple of different wind directions.
Speaker 1: I know this is obvious, but we we don't think
Speaker 1: about it a lot. Sometimes when we're setting up, it's
Speaker 1: really important to give yourself that little margin for error
Speaker 1: and go okay, well, now you know, if that wind
Speaker 1: isn't perfectly out of the West, if it's cheating pretty
Speaker 1: hard to the north, I'm still okay, right, Yep. And
Speaker 1: some of those setups are just there. They're tough to find, man,
Speaker 1: like you said, you can't you don't really know them
Speaker 1: until you get in there and you get a season,
Speaker 1: you know where you go. Okay, this is actually what
Speaker 1: happens here, right. And it's tough when you're you know,
Speaker 1: somebody may look at eighty acres and say that's not
Speaker 1: very big right, Um and and it it is. And
Speaker 1: when you're talking about how many matureier can that eighty
Speaker 1: acres hold? And so when you're hunting a specific deer
Speaker 1: or a specific betting area and you get in there
Speaker 1: and the wind is wrong, you have a really good
Speaker 1: chance of educating that dear to the point where you
Speaker 1: may not see him until rot or. You may not
Speaker 1: see that dear again. Now I don't want to give
Speaker 1: to your all the credit, but I also respect them
Speaker 1: enough to know I've had dear pattern me in my
Speaker 1: my my access points right. I'll go hunt to set.
Speaker 1: I've consistently gotten a great buck on camera night after
Speaker 1: night after night. The winds the same and I'll access
Speaker 1: that set and I'll go sit there and won't see
Speaker 1: him and I'll hunt it the next night because the
Speaker 1: winds right and I don't see him. I'll pull out
Speaker 1: and the next night he's in there. It's like what
Speaker 1: is going on? And you start to think to yourself
Speaker 1: that dear has me patterned. He knows how I'm getting
Speaker 1: in and so he knows not to not to come
Speaker 1: that way when I'm around. Um, yeah, it's it's been.
Speaker 1: I've been educated more times than not on on mature
Speaker 1: bucks well, and paying attention to stuff like that is
Speaker 1: real important. I was having a conversation when we were
Speaker 1: hanging those stands down in Wisconsin with my buddy because
Speaker 1: the spot that I killed my buck on there last year.
Speaker 1: was was this just really cool stand over a pond
Speaker 1: in this valley. I mean it was just a had
Speaker 1: a lot going for it. It had the right terrain,
Speaker 1: it had some water, uh, pretty close to that betting Knob,
Speaker 1: and it just you know, you're you're checking a lot
Speaker 1: of boxes there and man it was fun. You could
Speaker 1: you could get in there in an awesome way in
Speaker 1: the morning and access it and almost you're almost guaranteed
Speaker 1: not to blow deer out. And the way it set
Speaker 1: up your wind, if you had the right wind, it
Speaker 1: was blown over a quarry where they weren't probably gonna
Speaker 1: come from, and so it was just like fun, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean the morning that I killed my buck, I think.
Speaker 1: I think we saw fourteen deer off of that stand,
Speaker 1: which is fun. Right. You're watching deer. You never have
Speaker 1: a break of more than a half hour or an hour.
Speaker 1: And then my buddy who owns the place, he's like,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go sit that with a rifle and you know,
Speaker 1: you can see a lot, you've got a lot of
Speaker 1: different places to shoot. You could cover some serious ground
Speaker 1: with a high power in there. And he went in
Speaker 1: there and the first day sat all day and saw
Speaker 1: two deer and I go okay, well, that spot is
Speaker 1: really good. So what happened? Did it get open enough
Speaker 1: where they saw him come in? Was it the cumulative
Speaker 1: effect of the Wisconsin Gun season going on? Something changed
Speaker 1: in there, you know, in a in a two week
Speaker 1: span where you know, okay, you're not dealing with the
Speaker 1: heat of the Rut the same way by the time
Speaker 1: the Wisconsin opener is so you can factor that in
Speaker 1: a little bit. But you can see so much in there.
Speaker 1: To not see hardly any deer all day, something changed
Speaker 1: and you got to figure it out. It's not just,
Speaker 1: like you said, with a with the deer patterning you
Speaker 1: on your your entrance route. It's like or your access points.
Speaker 1: It's not random like they've they've got you somehow there.
Speaker 1: If they're not doing what you expect them to do,
Speaker 1: there's a really good chance it's because either somebody else
Speaker 1: or you tipped your hand to him and they know it.
Speaker 1: That's right. You know, I think that stuff is is
Speaker 1: really important. So how much did it hurt having to
Speaker 1: sell that or choosing to sell that Missouri Property? It
Speaker 1: hurt so bad because just the history I had out there,
Speaker 1: the memories that had made with my girls and knowing
Speaker 1: the quality of animals around there and having such great neighbors.
Speaker 1: It was very, very tough, Tony, but it was it
Speaker 1: was crystal clear to me that in order to spend
Speaker 1: more time with the girls that I needed a property
Speaker 1: closer to where I now, you know, work and live
Speaker 1: and and so the decision was made to sell that
Speaker 1: property and and try to find something in in Indiana.
Speaker 1: And this was a much different approach this time around
Speaker 1: and actually finding the property that I wanted. Oh, Tony,
Speaker 1: it totally different. So I went into Missouri, like I
Speaker 1: told you, and I got lucky that first day. And
Speaker 1: how it's a really nice year. This time around. Wanted
Speaker 1: a project. I wanted to challenge myself to the point
Speaker 1: where I had to really think about everything I've learned.
Speaker 1: And I've been around so many great hunters out there,
Speaker 1: habitat managers and I've just been a sponge for years.
Speaker 1: But now I wanted to try to put what I've
Speaker 1: learned to work. So I found eighty five acres in
Speaker 1: in in Indiana here and the first time I walked
Speaker 1: the property, Tony, I couldn't find a deer trail. It
Speaker 1: was like a state park. It was absolutely gorgeous, maples
Speaker 1: and hickory trees but no undergrowth whatsoever. It was wide open.
Speaker 1: Plus it had something I've never had before, which was
Speaker 1: a twenty acre. Uh It was. It was in fescue
Speaker 1: for Hey, but I could envision kind of an agricultural
Speaker 1: spot there where I could plant corn and beans, et Cetera,
Speaker 1: and I've never experienced having that much acres that I could,
Speaker 1: you know, test my arming skills on as well. So
Speaker 1: when I first walked the property, I walked away going
Speaker 1: that it's going to be too much work, and so
Speaker 1: I passed on it. And I passed on it for
Speaker 1: one specific reason. It wasn't because it wasn't a big
Speaker 1: enough project or it was too big of a project.
Speaker 1: It is because I was worried about one specific way
Speaker 1: to access this property to be able to hunt it correctly. Well,
Speaker 1: after a month went by, it still hadn't sold. A
Speaker 1: couple of folks had looked at it. I decided to
Speaker 1: take another drive down there and take a much finer
Speaker 1: look at it and I found a logging road that
Speaker 1: I didn't know existed. It had to be about twenty
Speaker 1: years old. That came out to a county road and
Speaker 1: I thought, my goodness, I wonder how this goes through
Speaker 1: the property. So I took my favorite hunting APP and
Speaker 1: I started walking down this logging road and dropping pins
Speaker 1: and tracing my route and boy, when I was done,
Speaker 1: I could not believe what I saw. It gave me
Speaker 1: all the acts I needed to just that one more
Speaker 1: look to find that hidden gem of how to get
Speaker 1: in and potentially u you know, hunt, hunt, have really
Speaker 1: good hunting opportunities on this property. Knowing how, then, you know,
Speaker 1: my mind started going. There was a blank canvas. Where
Speaker 1: do I want to hinge cut? What does the logging
Speaker 1: opportunity to look like in here? I was not interested
Speaker 1: in the money from a timber harvest. I was only
Speaker 1: interested in how do we harvest this timber to create
Speaker 1: the best Turkey and deer hunting habitat? How do wait?
Speaker 1: How do I put the logging roads in there to
Speaker 1: help me enter or gain access to enter and leave
Speaker 1: my stands undetected? How can I use those same logging
Speaker 1: roads to influence how deer are coming in and out
Speaker 1: of the property to the agricultural field that I envision having?
Speaker 1: All those things went to play and now it's year three, Tony,
Speaker 1: and and I cannot wait for folks to see this.
Speaker 1: I've I've document at every piece of this journey, from
Speaker 1: how it was to where it is today, and I
Speaker 1: think folks would be amazed at what you can do
Speaker 1: in a short period of time. That's that's so cool.
Speaker 1: Do you do you find yourself in your experience with,
Speaker 1: you know, the properties you've owned and you own and
Speaker 1: you know the least thing you've done? Do you find
Speaker 1: yourself like constantly being reminded of how much you have
Speaker 1: to learn on each of these properties, every one of them? Yes,
Speaker 1: I mean it never stops. that. That's one thing that's
Speaker 1: a real eye opener, because I always think you know,
Speaker 1: let's say you you know, let's say you're a die
Speaker 1: hard public land hunter and you you know you're in
Speaker 1: Pennsylvania and you're like this is the national forest, Die Hunter,
Speaker 1: this is these are the couple of sections I hunt,
Speaker 1: and you're a scouting fiend and you can always get
Speaker 1: yourself into a position where you're like, I know my dear,
Speaker 1: I know my dear, I know my dear ground, but
Speaker 1: you don't. And when you when you have your own
Speaker 1: piece of ground to work with like my my biggest properties,
Speaker 1: thirty acres, and you know, this summer I was walking
Speaker 1: that just because I kind of wanted to, and I'm
Speaker 1: seeing apple trees I didn't know we're in there, and
Speaker 1: I see stuff where I go. How do you miss
Speaker 1: this on thirty acres that you've owned for, you know,
Speaker 1: seven or eight years and you expand that out and realize,
Speaker 1: like you just there's so much that you're gonna Miss,
Speaker 1: even if you're out there all the time. That that
Speaker 1: that's part of what's like so cool about the whole thing.
Speaker 1: It is, and I believe me, Tony, you and I
Speaker 1: both can relate to the guy in Pennsylvania that's hunting
Speaker 1: some big woods right Um on public land. Going from,
Speaker 1: you know, that doing the recon you needed you to
Speaker 1: be successful in that situation, to now owning a piece
Speaker 1: of property and really having a blank canvas and creating
Speaker 1: what you want is it was two different it's the
Speaker 1: evolution of where I wanted to be as a hunter
Speaker 1: and as a habitat manager. So that's exactly why I
Speaker 1: went down the path that I did. But Um, yeah,
Speaker 1: like you said, it's amazing I could walk out on
Speaker 1: that five acres tomorrow. I've had it for three years
Speaker 1: and see something brand new or something that's gonna Open
Speaker 1: my eyes to why don't I have a sat here?
Speaker 1: It's that's so cool. So, given, given the fact that
Speaker 1: you have that eighty five acres down there closer to
Speaker 1: where you live, do you do you still lease any grown?
Speaker 1: I do. I actually have a lease in Ohio. Why? Uh,
Speaker 1: that's a great question. I can tell you it's and
Speaker 1: it's only I've only had it for a year. Um,
Speaker 1: I do like the opportunity to getting to hunt in
Speaker 1: other states as well. It kind of extends my season.
Speaker 1: I will tell you my main focus is my Indiana farm,
Speaker 1: but if I have an opportunity to go over to
Speaker 1: ohile and and try to pattern a buck or get
Speaker 1: on a good one, I'm definitely gonna do it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so you're just you're just giving yourself a few more
Speaker 1: options there when you know, with with your insights into
Speaker 1: leasing working for base camp, what are people looking for now?
Speaker 1: Because I know like leasing. You know it's leasing to
Speaker 1: me is kind of like the box blind thing, you know,
Speaker 1: when you think about sort of these things that might
Speaker 1: have grown out of Texas hunting. I remember seeing them.
Speaker 1: You know, when I started hunting, you'd watch a show or,
Speaker 1: you know, read an article and you're like, I can't
Speaker 1: believe somebody sits in a little house and shoots a deer,
Speaker 1: or I can't believe people are paying hunt land they
Speaker 1: don't own. And now, you know, it's across the spectrum.
Speaker 1: Like it's it's so popular, and leasing is just crazy
Speaker 1: popular right now. Yeah, it's. It's, you know, for the
Speaker 1: Midwest specifically, you know it's it's obviously not as a
Speaker 1: mature market or thing. Is is what you'll find down
Speaker 1: south like Texas, Alabama, Arkansas, et CETERA. Georgia. Leasing has
Speaker 1: been around for a very, very long time down self.
Speaker 1: So still in the Midwest you still have those folks
Speaker 1: that asked the question. You know, why would you ever
Speaker 1: lease the property? Just go knock on the door and
Speaker 1: create a relationship with somebody and and and hunt the property?
Speaker 1: Um and and, as a matter of fact, I've I've
Speaker 1: heard folks take it a step farther and they're not
Speaker 1: very happy with with the leasing that that we do
Speaker 1: right and and part of it is because folks are
Speaker 1: are starting to uh, it's it's not, it's not cheap. Right,
Speaker 1: leasing a property is not cheap Um, specifically in certain states.
Speaker 1: But I will tell you they're getting over the fact
Speaker 1: that you would have to pay for access nowadays. My
Speaker 1: my biggest rebuttal to folks who have a problem with
Speaker 1: leasing today is, you know, we pay for our archery equipment.
Speaker 1: Our guns are ammo or camouflage, everything, everything else we
Speaker 1: paid for. That landowner has invested in a property and
Speaker 1: is willing to allow access for hunting. I just want
Speaker 1: folks to be grateful for that, because a lot of
Speaker 1: private landage that they don't have to do it, they
Speaker 1: wish to do it and and part of that is
Speaker 1: they get paid for right. Well, I mean I heard
Speaker 1: Stan Potts say this years ago and it's stuck with me,
Speaker 1: and his argument was you think that you've had free hunting,
Speaker 1: you know, say you knock on the door and they
Speaker 1: let you on there and it's like it was only
Speaker 1: free to you. Somebody's always paying for it. Somebody's always
Speaker 1: been paying the property taxes, somebody paid, you know, somebody
Speaker 1: paid to be the title holder of that Land Somehow,
Speaker 1: somewhere or some way, and so the idea that you
Speaker 1: know hunting is was free at one point, and it
Speaker 1: isn't now. Isn't that doesn't really hold water. It does
Speaker 1: hold water and I can tell you I've I've had
Speaker 1: discussions with a lot of our landowners and and they're
Speaker 1: so appreciative of the the liability coverage that comes with
Speaker 1: our program you know, we give a five million dollar
Speaker 1: liability coverage to per policy for our landowner and our
Speaker 1: covers our hunters as well, and that's really one of
Speaker 1: the only reasons why they're opening access today is because
Speaker 1: they feel like they have some sort of comfort level
Speaker 1: and in knowing they would be covered if an incident
Speaker 1: did happen. And and so these are landowners opening up
Speaker 1: their property to any hunters, whether they're in state, out
Speaker 1: of state, whatever, that they normally wouldn't have access to.
Speaker 1: So I'm very, very proud of our at least in
Speaker 1: program what we can offer our landowners and the comfort
Speaker 1: level that we can bring to them with our services
Speaker 1: and and then the the liability coverage that we provide
Speaker 1: uh to allow other hunters to continue to get out
Speaker 1: of the field, because that's the most important thing to me, Tony,
Speaker 1: is we continue to get, you know, folks in the
Speaker 1: field enjoying this great sport of hunting. Well, and that's
Speaker 1: something I've never thought of because I've been banging the
Speaker 1: drum pretty hard on walk in programs and you know,
Speaker 1: you know, private land open to the public access programs
Speaker 1: throughout different states, because I think, I think access to
Speaker 1: ground and any way we can open it up is
Speaker 1: a huge win for us and I just I just
Speaker 1: feel like that's a hill I'm going to die on
Speaker 1: because I don't see a lot of other solutions to
Speaker 1: some of the access problems we have going on. But
Speaker 1: I've never really thought about, you know, leasing services as
Speaker 1: as being like a vehicle to or, you know, a
Speaker 1: vessel to open up more land to people. But there
Speaker 1: are probably landowners out there who weren't allowing hunting and
Speaker 1: you know, pretty sick of right in that checked Uncle
Speaker 1: Sam every year for their property taxes or you know
Speaker 1: however it plays out going you know, man, if I
Speaker 1: can if I can be covered against liability and I
Speaker 1: can have some responsible hunters on here who are paying
Speaker 1: me a decent amount of money to to hunt the deer,
Speaker 1: that's sort of a win win for everybody and it
Speaker 1: probably is opening up some land that maybe wasn't accessible
Speaker 1: to somebody before and absolutely is, and I can I
Speaker 1: can tell you as well as is some of these
Speaker 1: landowners did allow hunting, but then it just got out
Speaker 1: of control. They allowed one person, who invited their buddy,
Speaker 1: who invited their buddy, and before you know it, you
Speaker 1: know there's there's five or six hunters out there on
Speaker 1: a property that really should only be hunting three. Right
Speaker 1: and and so some of the feedback we've gotten back
Speaker 1: is we really appreciate you setting the limit of how
Speaker 1: many people can hunt our property. We feel like there's
Speaker 1: more control over there. We know the guys a lot
Speaker 1: better Um and there's so many great relationships have come
Speaker 1: out of this leasing program to between the Hunters and
Speaker 1: landowners that I've seen over the years. We've got some very,
Speaker 1: very touching and great stories. That's that's awesome. What are
Speaker 1: some of the mistakes people make? Let's say you've got
Speaker 1: somebody out there, I don't care what state they're in,
Speaker 1: they're like, you know what, I lost my place, it
Speaker 1: got developed, or I'm sick of bumping into people on
Speaker 1: public land. I wanna, I wanna. I can't afford to
Speaker 1: buy a place, but I want to lease something. What
Speaker 1: are some of the mistakes people make when they start
Speaker 1: looking into leasing. Um, they don't do their due diligence.
Speaker 1: That's probably one of the biggest things because it's such
Speaker 1: a competitive thing today. The demand is so high for
Speaker 1: a good lease today. I think a lot of folks
Speaker 1: are are are so eager to get a piece of
Speaker 1: property that they'll pay in full and just then they
Speaker 1: go out there and say see that it's not what
Speaker 1: they thought they were getting. Um. Any leasing program over
Speaker 1: there should give you at least a week. You know,
Speaker 1: you put a deposit on on you go out there,
Speaker 1: look at the property and make sure that's exactly what
Speaker 1: you want before you put your full money down. I
Speaker 1: think a lot of folks will understand that. Once that
Speaker 1: you pay the leasing company. They're a broker. That money
Speaker 1: goes directly to the landowner. It's no longer in the
Speaker 1: leasing company's pockets. Right. So still do your due diligence. Um,
Speaker 1: have you ever looked at, uh, well, you bought your
Speaker 1: thirty acres, when when you read the write up of
Speaker 1: a property and you would go up there and look
Speaker 1: at that property that you're interested in buying and you
Speaker 1: would see things differently than who ever wrote that property
Speaker 1: up correct. Sure, and then it happens all the time.
Speaker 1: We as as as hunters, as outdoors men and women,
Speaker 1: we see things differently. So don't take the write up
Speaker 1: for its word. Go out there and put boots on
Speaker 1: the ground and make sure you are getting exactly what
Speaker 1: you want and then when that is the case, then
Speaker 1: make sure you secure because they're they're not making any
Speaker 1: more of it and the leasing is very good. Properties
Speaker 1: are very hard to come by. So you would say
Speaker 1: that you see a lot of people get into the
Speaker 1: leasing game and sort of get a little bit too
Speaker 1: impulsive with the lease? Yes, yeah, I could see that. Uh,
Speaker 1: I mean you see you see that in some of
Speaker 1: these hot real estate markets where, you know, people are
Speaker 1: buying three quarters of a million dollar houses site unseen
Speaker 1: just to be in, you know, Catchum Idaho or Bozeman,
Speaker 1: Montana or something, and I could see that trickling down
Speaker 1: into the into the competitive space of of leasing, especially
Speaker 1: in states with probably a high hunter density. Yes, YEP,
Speaker 1: and I get it. I get it because of the demand,
Speaker 1: but man, if I'm going to invest my time and
Speaker 1: money and to go out and hunt property, I'm putting
Speaker 1: boots on the ground first to make sure it's exactly
Speaker 1: what I would like to have. Yeah, you you mentioned
Speaker 1: before I was I was going to ask you this.
Speaker 1: You said, you know, you put a deposit down, then
Speaker 1: you go walk it. Is that? Is that typically the
Speaker 1: order of things where if you see, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: listing pop up on your guys site and go man,
Speaker 1: that's that's the one I want. It's an hour away
Speaker 1: from home, it's the right size, the right price, you
Speaker 1: throw a deposit down, then you go look at it. Yep.
Speaker 1: Yet you put a three deposit down and you've got
Speaker 1: seven days to get out there and look get it
Speaker 1: and if you want it, you pay the balance. Um,
Speaker 1: if you don't, just you're in the market for another one. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so that's that's basically like kind of like scrow money
Speaker 1: or like hold money. It's nonrefundable, Tony, it's it's that critical.
Speaker 1: It's the demand is so high. Yes, yeah, so you gotta,
Speaker 1: I mean you gotta at least have a pretty good idea.
Speaker 1: So do you advise people to, you know, check out
Speaker 1: the listing and then do some e scouting and, you know,
Speaker 1: really be honest with themselves before they plunked on that deposit?
Speaker 1: I would love people to do that. You know, if
Speaker 1: I gave that advice Tony, I'd tell you they would
Speaker 1: lose out on the majority of our leases in the
Speaker 1: Midwest there are specific states that we all have a
Speaker 1: property rollout on and we release our properties Monday, Wednesday
Speaker 1: and Fridays to our membership level and if they're not
Speaker 1: if they don't have a deposit on them in five
Speaker 1: or ten minutes, it's shocking. Like how how? How high
Speaker 1: is the interest? And like people, I mean I could have,
Speaker 1: I bet you have a lease or two right now
Speaker 1: in Ohio that, if it came up, there's probably fifty
Speaker 1: people watching for that least to come up. Wow, YEP, wow.
Speaker 1: So it's just and you're you're not seeing any softening
Speaker 1: of this given the current economy? No, no, and it's
Speaker 1: to be honest, with the last two years it's it's
Speaker 1: been the demands to even grown higher. I think people
Speaker 1: just want to get away and have a spot for
Speaker 1: their own. I've seen properties out there that are you know,
Speaker 1: I probably wouldn't, least just because of how it lays out,
Speaker 1: but folks want to get in the field. It's it's
Speaker 1: refreshing in a way that we haven't lost that are
Speaker 1: these leases that you guys are offering? They're all annual renewals, right, yes,
Speaker 1: and first right of renewal. Got It. Got It. Do
Speaker 1: you do you see Woll? I mean do they get
Speaker 1: in it? Do you see people hopping leases a lot,
Speaker 1: or do they tend to? They tend to stick with one.
Speaker 1: They'll stick with with the good ones. Are Our renewals
Speaker 1: are pretty Dang high. You know, the same guy who
Speaker 1: leased it last year's least it this year. And you
Speaker 1: guys have a real estate division now as well. Yeah,
Speaker 1: base camp country real estate was formed in two thousand
Speaker 1: and eighteen just, you know, help out with the demand.
Speaker 1: We were losing a lot of landowners because they were
Speaker 1: selling their property and and you know, it was a
Speaker 1: great way to keep these folks in the family. We
Speaker 1: already knew their property intimately, we had history with their property,
Speaker 1: and so our our owner, Steve Menk, said, hey, we
Speaker 1: should start a real state division and continue to take
Speaker 1: care of our landowners in that fashion, and it's it's
Speaker 1: been wonderful, Tony. It's been an absolute pleasure to watch
Speaker 1: this team grow and the culture we have here second
Speaker 1: to none. I'm so proud of these these guys and
Speaker 1: gals that are working for us. I mean, I would
Speaker 1: have to imagine if you take somebody who's serious about
Speaker 1: deer hunting enough to pay, pay pretty good money for
Speaker 1: a lease and sort of be in that market all
Speaker 1: the time, there's probably a fair amount of cross over
Speaker 1: there from people who are considering buying their own land.
Speaker 1: That is that is correct to me. It's it's the evolution,
Speaker 1: you know, of not going the talking kind of your
Speaker 1: D D Y I type of deal to leasing program
Speaker 1: where now you're leasing your your own property to having
Speaker 1: enough for down payment to own your own piece of land. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's there's sort of a natural progression there and I
Speaker 1: have to imagine, you know, leasing, leasing is interesting me.
Speaker 1: I've never done it before and you know, you see
Speaker 1: it sort of as a bridge between the public land
Speaker 1: knock on doors thing. You know, a lot of people
Speaker 1: don't want to do that anymore or it's just not
Speaker 1: a great option where they live, but they can't afford
Speaker 1: outright by something because you know, you know how it
Speaker 1: is when you when you go shop for recreational land,
Speaker 1: a lot of banks are like sorry, we don't, we
Speaker 1: don't want it. You need to have a lot of
Speaker 1: money to put down. You know, if you don't have
Speaker 1: a plan to build on it or something, it's a
Speaker 1: it's a tough little market to get loans for and
Speaker 1: just weird. Can Be a weird thing to navigate. And
Speaker 1: so that that middle ground is is to lease something.
Speaker 1: But Leasing, you know what I mean? That that's like
Speaker 1: renting an apartment like that money's it's going to somebody
Speaker 1: else year after year and not going into, you know,
Speaker 1: sort of your own theoretical piggy bank. And I imagine
Speaker 1: a lot of people who leased for a few years
Speaker 1: sort of graduate out of that and go, you know what,
Speaker 1: I want to put this money into something that I own. Yes, Yep,
Speaker 1: I can absolutely relate to that. Yeah, it's it's an
Speaker 1: interesting it's an interesting thing to think about in our
Speaker 1: space because, you know, I hear people bitch about it
Speaker 1: a lot and you know, this property get leased up
Speaker 1: or this guy owning this and not letting anybody in,
Speaker 1: and I get it. I mean I've lost a lot
Speaker 1: of places to that too, to that kind of thing,
Speaker 1: but it's not like it's going to go away and
Speaker 1: it's it's reality we have to live in and to
Speaker 1: just be angry with it and instead of maybe look
Speaker 1: into it and see if you could play in in
Speaker 1: that space as well. Somehow to me it's a little
Speaker 1: bit shortsighted, because it's not. I mean we, we are
Speaker 1: going to be dealing with this stuff with with higher
Speaker 1: demand for ground. You know that's not going away and
Speaker 1: you know, when you look at urban sprawl and you
Speaker 1: look at what's just happening out there with a lot
Speaker 1: of deer habitat, we are just getting pushed onto fewer
Speaker 1: places and people are going to figure it out. They're
Speaker 1: going to figure out a way to have, you know,
Speaker 1: good deer they can hunt that aren't, you know, constantly
Speaker 1: being chased by other people. Right. No, I I my
Speaker 1: perception of leasing before I worked here was a lot
Speaker 1: different than what it is today. and Um, part of
Speaker 1: it is just because of the company I work for
Speaker 1: and how they they truly care about the landowner hunters
Speaker 1: out there. We talked about all the time how proudly
Speaker 1: are making sure that we're providing more access to two
Speaker 1: hunters out there. That's not lost on us at all.
Speaker 1: That's that's our main goal right the second thing is
Speaker 1: is to be part of a company that actually gives back.
Speaker 1: If if you know we we we support farm rescue
Speaker 1: and catch a dream and uh, several, several other folks
Speaker 1: out there, Sportsman's Alliance. We're right there with your typical
Speaker 1: guy who wants folks um to succeed out there and
Speaker 1: protect our heritage and our right to hunt and all
Speaker 1: that stuff. So we're not just sitting back here collecting
Speaker 1: paychecks from from folks spending their hard earned money on leases.
Speaker 1: We've actually got a strategy and we're working hard to
Speaker 1: gain and get more access for folks and and we
Speaker 1: do give back to our communities tenfold and I love
Speaker 1: it and that that's awesome. Man. Before we wrap this up,
Speaker 1: I want to ask you a couple of questions that
Speaker 1: you've learned about deer over the years. I want to
Speaker 1: switch gears here a little bit and I want to
Speaker 1: start this. I want to ask you what's The dumbest
Speaker 1: thing you've seen a mature buck do? Yesh, it's a
Speaker 1: great question. The dumbest thing can be. Can Be Iowa
Speaker 1: private land, it can be northern Minnesota, public, doesn't matter.
Speaker 1: What's what's the one time that sticks in your head
Speaker 1: where you killed one where you're like, I cannot freaking
Speaker 1: believe he did that. Well, UH, in Missouri, Sullivan County,
Speaker 1: I did shoot at a very, very mature animal Um
Speaker 1: at about twelve yards and I grazed him. I cannot
Speaker 1: believe I missed that, dear, but he ran another twenty yards, stop,
Speaker 1: stood broadside, looked back at me like a mule deer
Speaker 1: and that's all I needed for a second shot. What
Speaker 1: happened on the first one? The first one, I believe
Speaker 1: I peaked like it just to me. I already had
Speaker 1: that deer mounted, I already figured out which way it
Speaker 1: was going to be turned on the wall, all that stuff.
Speaker 1: I believe that's what happened. Yeah, so you you get,
Speaker 1: you out, drove your headlights a little bit. Oh, yes,
Speaker 1: and it was humbling. But I could not believe that
Speaker 1: deer ran out there and stood it, you know, thirty
Speaker 1: two yards or so and and look literally broadside at
Speaker 1: me in the deer stand because he kind of ran
Speaker 1: uphill and it was too late. Yeah, well, you know,
Speaker 1: when you say that we always think and we talked
Speaker 1: about mature books like they would never do something like that,
Speaker 1: but I can remember deer that have done that to
Speaker 1: me too. I mean I killed a I killed a
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty one inch or on public land in
Speaker 1: North Dakota one time that I missed at twenty yards
Speaker 1: and did the same thing. He just kind of did
Speaker 1: that little hop to thirty and then I thumped him.
Speaker 1: And I can think of other deer I shot. You know,
Speaker 1: the first buck that I killed with my re curve
Speaker 1: back when I traditional bow hunted some same thing. I
Speaker 1: missed him close and they did the same thing. It's
Speaker 1: kind of hot back there to twenty yards and gives
Speaker 1: you that follow up and I think you know the
Speaker 1: lesson there for anybody listening to this who doesn't, you know,
Speaker 1: maybe doesn't have a whole wall full of hundred seventy is. Listen,
Speaker 1: plan for that second shot, like you know, plan to
Speaker 1: make a good first shot, but understand that you know,
Speaker 1: out of let's say you shoot at ten deer, one
Speaker 1: or two of them might, you know, if you miss,
Speaker 1: might give you that follow up shot and if you're
Speaker 1: not ready to get an Arrow, you know, like that
Speaker 1: second Arrow knocked up and ready to go, you might
Speaker 1: miss out on that opportunity. Right. I mean I was
Speaker 1: ready to hang my bolt and my garage for the
Speaker 1: rest of the year. I mean in those split seconds
Speaker 1: that I'm reaching for another Arrow, right, like, how did
Speaker 1: you miss that, dear? And it just it was meant
Speaker 1: to be. Yeah, it just it just happens. And they
Speaker 1: they sometimes they don't get it. Man. If they don't,
Speaker 1: if they don't see you or hear something, you know,
Speaker 1: really definitive, there's a lot of times where they're going
Speaker 1: to spook a little bit and and give you a
Speaker 1: chance to you know, while they're trying to figure out
Speaker 1: what the hell just happened, you can probably you can
Speaker 1: find a way to redeem yourself a little bit. You know,
Speaker 1: it doesn't it's not gonna happen every time, but if
Speaker 1: you think a big buck will never allow you to
Speaker 1: do that, even on public land, it's just not true. Right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I related back to it. I did not have to
Speaker 1: stop the deer. He was sitting there eating acorns and
Speaker 1: I just played with you know, so I didn't put
Speaker 1: them on alert even before I shot. Isn't it amazing
Speaker 1: how you can miss a big buck at twelve yards?
Speaker 1: I would love to say that will be the last one,
Speaker 1: but I've hunted too long to know now that it
Speaker 1: could happen again. I hope it doesn't. But Dude, it
Speaker 1: is so freaking humbling to miss one that you could
Speaker 1: probably get with a spear like seven out of ten times. Right.
Speaker 1: I'm not too proud to say that I've I've missed
Speaker 1: like that. Yeah, it happens. Uh. What? What's something else
Speaker 1: you learned, especially when you were you're really into your
Speaker 1: quest to kill an Antler Buck in, uh, as many
Speaker 1: states as possible, and you're, you know, in the Jive
Speaker 1: to Washington, you're hunting different areas, you're hunting a lot
Speaker 1: of public land. What, what's something you learned that you
Speaker 1: would say that you learned about deer bucks, specifically that
Speaker 1: a lot of people just give them too much credit for.
Speaker 1: I would have to say, yeah, that's a really good question, Tony.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, what's some kind of universal trait or
Speaker 1: something you saw in deer in your travels where you're like, man,
Speaker 1: I think people are just overthinking this part about deer uh,
Speaker 1: that they need cover, they got to eat right and
Speaker 1: and a lot of times if you can figure out
Speaker 1: those two things, Um and get in between those two things,
Speaker 1: you're being good shape, being really good shape. Anywhere I've
Speaker 1: ever gone, I've adapted to kind of the way that
Speaker 1: other folks hunt in those areas, but that those two
Speaker 1: things right there is if you can find the right
Speaker 1: cover in the signed within that cover Um and find
Speaker 1: where they are going to eat, you've got a really
Speaker 1: good opportunity to putting yourself in a good situation. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that that reminding yourself that it's often a game of
Speaker 1: bed to food, food to bed, and you know your
Speaker 1: job is to get in between there is pretty beneficial, right. Yep. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I remember, man, we were in like seventh or eighth
Speaker 1: grade football and I remember we were getting our we
Speaker 1: were getting beat and I remember the coach saying because
Speaker 1: we had we had good running backs. You know, I
Speaker 1: was in a farming community and we had some really
Speaker 1: tough kids that were running backs, and remember him saying
Speaker 1: thirty three blast, blast, thirty three blast, forty four blasts,
Speaker 1: over and over and over and over again, because we're
Speaker 1: gonna get three, four or five yards on every one
Speaker 1: and we're just gonna grind them down. And I remember
Speaker 1: thinking like man, we have all these plays and all
Speaker 1: these options and we're gonna run those two and it worked.
Speaker 1: Like you just it's just simple and when you look
Speaker 1: at the world of a white tail and we start
Speaker 1: to give these bucks so much credit and you know,
Speaker 1: like he beds here on this wind and he does
Speaker 1: this on this wind and he's never he's nocturnal all
Speaker 1: of October and you go, hold on, hold on, he's
Speaker 1: got to eat and he needs a safe place to
Speaker 1: lay out through the day. And if you can start
Speaker 1: finding those two spots and how he goes from one
Speaker 1: to the other, you've got a lot of this stuff licked. Yes, Yep.
Speaker 1: And getting in and out on the tective is just key.
Speaker 1: If you're close right, absolutely key. I I've got spots
Speaker 1: on my property, Tony Acres, that I would love to
Speaker 1: hunt every day, but I will not hunt until the
Speaker 1: right day. Yep, Yep, and that's you know, that that lesson.
Speaker 1: It's that's a hard one to get across to people
Speaker 1: who are like hunting public land and they're like, okay,
Speaker 1: I got a weekend and this is a spot with
Speaker 1: all the rubs and if I don't go there, somebody
Speaker 1: else is going to. But learning that if you do
Speaker 1: go there when it's not right, it doesn't matter, you're
Speaker 1: gonna get it wrong, you're gonna screw it up, and
Speaker 1: that that patience you know people will look at this
Speaker 1: and go yeah, well, sure, you've got eighty five acres
Speaker 1: of your own land and you can be patient because
Speaker 1: nobody's going to go in there. But that rule applies
Speaker 1: everywhere because if you screw it up, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter what you think about the hunting competition
Speaker 1: or what big bucks do. If you're like I have
Speaker 1: to do this because you know if I don't like
Speaker 1: somebody else is going to screw it up or whatever,
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter because you've already lost the game. Right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I always think about my neighbors are hunting out
Speaker 1: there too, and if I've got a dear, that their
Speaker 1: core areas is primarily, you know, around my property. Now
Speaker 1: dear have a large range, but if I'm getting a deer,
Speaker 1: you know, more times than not on my eighty five acres,
Speaker 1: the last thing I want to do is bump them out. Yep, Yep,
Speaker 1: and you have the option to save them and be patient.
Speaker 1: And you do. You learn that, though, just just an experience.
Speaker 1: I mean I I run into that hunting public land
Speaker 1: all the time where I'm like, I want to go
Speaker 1: here so bad because I feel that clock ticking and
Speaker 1: I only have so much time and I know there's
Speaker 1: a chance to somebody go through there or somebody will
Speaker 1: go through there, but if you know it's not right,
Speaker 1: the worst thing you can do is force it right. Yep,
Speaker 1: we and we do that a lot. Listen, buddy, we
Speaker 1: gotta wrap this up. It's always so much fun to
Speaker 1: catch up with you. So much good information here. Where
Speaker 1: can everybody go to find uh, maybe find their next
Speaker 1: lease or maybe find a little property buy somewhere? You
Speaker 1: Bet then go to a base camp leasing DOT COM
Speaker 1: OR BASE CAMP COUNTRY DOT COM for the real estate needs. Awesome.
Speaker 1: I love it, man, thank you so much for coming on.
Speaker 1: I appreciate it. That's it for this week, folks. Be
Speaker 1: sure to tune in next week for some more white
Speaker 1: tailed goodness. This has been weird to hunt and I'm
Speaker 1: your guest host, Tony Peterson, as I always. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for listening and if you're looking for more
Speaker 1: white tail content, be sure to check out the meadiator
Speaker 1: dot com, slash wired to see a pile of new
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