1 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly 2 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small 3 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions 4 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, Doctor Joy Harden Bradford, a 5 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:32,159 Speaker 1: licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or to 6 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 1: find a therapist in your area, visit our website at 7 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:39,519 Speaker 1: Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you love 8 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:43,479 Speaker 1: listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not 9 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:46,440 Speaker 1: meant to be a substitute for a relationship with a 10 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:57,760 Speaker 1: licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much for 11 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:01,639 Speaker 1: joining me for another TVG library episodes. We'll get right 12 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 1: into our conversation after a word from our sponsors introducing 13 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:14,160 Speaker 1: our new Therapy for Black Girls Holiday gift collection. Our 14 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:17,759 Speaker 1: new ensemble of drinkwaar totes, journals and sweaters were made 15 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:20,520 Speaker 1: to remind you of the importance of centering your mental health. 16 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 1: Purchase your TVG gifts at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com 17 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:28,160 Speaker 1: slash shop. Happy holidays, y'all, remember to take good care 18 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 1: and give good gifts. We know y'all love good books 19 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 1: to add to your bookshelf. And this week we're back 20 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:46,960 Speaker 1: with another selection. Today, I'm joined by Jamila Souffran to 21 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:50,720 Speaker 1: hear all about her new book, Your Journey to Financial Freedom, 22 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:54,200 Speaker 1: a step by step guide to achieving wealth and happiness. 23 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 1: During our conversation, Jamila and I chatted about how our 24 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 1: relationship with money is impacted by our childhoods, the five 25 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:05,440 Speaker 1: stages toward financial independence that she outlines in the book, 26 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:09,920 Speaker 1: how financial planning can contribute to our mental wellness, and 27 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 1: how she made the decision to expand the work she 28 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 1: started with the Journey to Launch podcast to write the book. 29 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:20,080 Speaker 1: If something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, please 30 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 1: share with us using the hashtag TBG in session. Here's 31 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:30,240 Speaker 1: our conversation. Thank you so much for joining me today, Jamla. 32 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 1: I'm so happy to have you here on Therapy for 33 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 1: Black Girls. 34 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:35,799 Speaker 2: Doctor Joyet. Is an honor to be here, so thank 35 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 2: you for having me. 36 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:38,959 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, we had a chance to chat for Journey 37 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 1: to Launch a couple of years ago with our other 38 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 1: sisters in podcasting, so it's glad. 39 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:43,959 Speaker 3: To have you here. 40 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 1: So I want to hear a little bit of the 41 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 1: community who may not know how did you actually get 42 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 1: started in the financial independence space? 43 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 2: Yes, I got started out of necessity. I needed to 44 00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 2: find a way out of my current situation. So I 45 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 2: was in my early thirties commuting from Brooklyn to New Jersey, 46 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 2: and I had a really hard commute. It was an 47 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 2: hour and a half each way, and I was pregnant 48 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 2: with my first son. And while I was dealing with 49 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:15,119 Speaker 2: that for almost ten years, at that point, that commute 50 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:18,240 Speaker 2: and that grind going to work and I almost like 51 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:19,359 Speaker 2: just said, this is my life. 52 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 3: I have to deal with it. 53 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 2: But being pregnant and the commute taking double the amount 54 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:26,839 Speaker 2: of time this one night to get home, I said 55 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 2: to myself, I cannot do this like this cannot be 56 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 2: my life. I had all these dreams and aspirations of 57 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:36,080 Speaker 2: being free and not being tied to a cubicle or 58 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 2: having a boss in my twenties. I thought big like 59 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 2: that and didn't know how to make that come true. 60 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 2: And I realized that I was stuck in this job, 61 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 2: stuck in this commute, and money was the reason for that. 62 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 2: I needed money to survive. I wanted to grow my family, 63 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:52,160 Speaker 2: and I just didn't know how I could do that 64 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:56,840 Speaker 2: without being rich, without having married rich, which wasn't the 65 00:03:56,840 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 2: case my husband is a teacher without coming from myny 66 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 2: It didn't come from money or without building a big 67 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 2: business or winning the lottery. 68 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 3: None of those things were happening. 69 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 2: And so I googled when I got home and at work, 70 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:11,200 Speaker 2: how to quit my job, how to retire early, all 71 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:11,600 Speaker 2: these things. 72 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 3: I didn't know what I would find, but I'm sure 73 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 3: a lot. 74 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 2: Of you know listeners can to agree or remember moments 75 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:20,360 Speaker 2: like that. And I found out about the fire movement, 76 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 2: the financial independence retire early movement, which was sharing all 77 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 2: these stories about regular people investing and saving their way 78 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 2: to freedom. And it would take some time, depending on 79 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 2: their income and what they. 80 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 3: Were able to do. 81 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:37,280 Speaker 2: But I was inspired by hearing those stories, reading those stories, 82 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:39,600 Speaker 2: and said, I'm going to pursue financial independence for myself. 83 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:41,719 Speaker 1: So one of the things that I really loved about 84 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:43,839 Speaker 1: the book, Jamila, is that you talk a lot about 85 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 1: how your mother's experience and your early childhood experiences really 86 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 1: impacted and informed your relationship with money. Can you share 87 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 1: a little bit about that story and talk a little 88 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 1: bit about how our relationship with money is actually formed? 89 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 2: Well, So we are, I like to s say, unmolded clay. 90 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 2: When we are born into this world, and then there 91 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 2: began to be hands that molded and those hands are 92 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 2: our family, our culture, or upbringing, our surroundings. And so 93 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:14,240 Speaker 2: for me, I think being raised by a single mom 94 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:16,920 Speaker 2: who was only twenty when she had me, who we 95 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:19,040 Speaker 2: were born in Jamaica, so she's Jamaican and I was 96 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 2: born in Jamaica. But like many immigrants, she had this 97 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:25,720 Speaker 2: opportunity to come to the United States, but she had 98 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 2: to leave me behind because my papers weren't in at 99 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 2: the time when her papers came in. And she made 100 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:32,720 Speaker 2: this bold move at twenty years old to do that, 101 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:35,600 Speaker 2: to come to a country she's never been, and literally 102 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 2: worked her way from the bottom up in terms of 103 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:41,280 Speaker 2: she didn't have her education, but she got her associates, 104 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 2: the bachelors and masters. And I was able to join 105 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:47,280 Speaker 2: her just under two years old after she left me 106 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 2: for a few months, and I was always with her 107 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:53,839 Speaker 2: because she couldn't really afford childcare. And I just remember 108 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:56,279 Speaker 2: watching her and she didn't teach me money lessons, but 109 00:05:56,360 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 2: it was imprinted on me how hard she worked and 110 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 2: how much she strived for a better life, and how 111 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 2: money was important in order to have a better life 112 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 2: and education. Education was another thing that she instilled in me. 113 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:12,280 Speaker 2: And so I saw her working her way up through 114 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:17,359 Speaker 2: education through her jobs and realized that if I wanted 115 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:20,880 Speaker 2: to have some independence and to have stability, I needed 116 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:23,599 Speaker 2: to have money. And so I focused on education growing up. 117 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:26,159 Speaker 2: And then I also got my first job at fourteen 118 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:29,360 Speaker 2: years old and have been working ever since. And those 119 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:31,800 Speaker 2: were the things she instilled in me by watching her. 120 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 2: And saving money again, I think as immigrant or people 121 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 2: who don't have a lot of money, it's necessary to 122 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 2: be able to save something from the dollar you make. 123 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:45,000 Speaker 2: And that stayed with me up until I graduated college. 124 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:47,839 Speaker 2: And it was actually saving money that put me in 125 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 2: the position to do some of the things that I've 126 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:51,839 Speaker 2: done so far. But it was learning how to invest 127 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:55,839 Speaker 2: money and learning about compounding interest and business that allowed 128 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 2: me to really take my journey to the next level. 129 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 1: And what would you say about how other peop people's 130 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 1: relationship with money is formed? Like what kinds of things 131 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:05,039 Speaker 1: might we even look to in our own past to 132 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 1: talk about how we think about money? 133 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 2: Right, so we can look at it as was money 134 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 2: discussed growing up or avoided in your household? Was it 135 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 2: something that triggered arguments or something that people ignored right, 136 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 2: And I think if you can look to how your 137 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 2: parents or your family viewed money, how they handled money 138 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:27,680 Speaker 2: or the lack of handling money, whether you saw it 139 00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 2: or not, but it informed your surroundings, how comfortable you. 140 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 3: Were or not, then that usually. 141 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 2: Leaves an imprint on how we deal with money, whether 142 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 2: we avoided or if we lean into it. I talk 143 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 2: about being a saver a lot in my early years 144 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 2: and how that helped me so much, But in some 145 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 2: areas of my life I've seen how it's actually not 146 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 2: as helpful to have a saver's mindset where I don't 147 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 2: lean into spending what I have in order to enjoy myself. 148 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 3: I've since learned to let that go. 149 00:07:56,760 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 2: But you know, if you grew up where you didn't 150 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 2: have a lot of money and you had to save 151 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 2: every penny, you can either grow up to simulate that 152 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 2: even if you have stability or feel like you are 153 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 2: almost pushing against that and saying I'm going to enjoy 154 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:13,000 Speaker 2: my money, even if it's at a detriment to your 155 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:17,160 Speaker 2: current financial situation. So I always talk about the journey 156 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 2: to financial independence is an outward one in many respects, 157 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:22,680 Speaker 2: because you have to do all these things, you know, 158 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:27,000 Speaker 2: earn money, optimize your expenses, invest save, But it's really 159 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 2: an internal journey. Honestly, it's like the mindset, it's the habits. 160 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 2: It's uncovering why we handle money or avoid money in 161 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 2: the ways that we do. 162 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:38,440 Speaker 1: So do you have any suggestions for those of us? 163 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:40,480 Speaker 1: I know you're a mom, I'm a mom for people 164 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:44,600 Speaker 1: who are parents or caretaking or caregiving for children, what 165 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 1: kinds of things can we do to instill like good 166 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:50,720 Speaker 1: money habits and like people being comfortable with money even 167 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:51,400 Speaker 1: as children. 168 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:56,679 Speaker 2: I think talking about money is important with your family. 169 00:08:56,840 --> 00:08:59,200 Speaker 2: And if you grew up in a culture or an 170 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 2: environment where you didn't like the young people couldn't ask 171 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 2: questions or you know, you couldn't talk about salary, which 172 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:06,600 Speaker 2: I understand because you know, little kids, they have a 173 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 2: tendency to share too much information with the outside world. 174 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:13,960 Speaker 2: But you know, growing up and allowing your children to 175 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:16,880 Speaker 2: discuss money, so my kids they'll be like, how much 176 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 2: money do you make? 177 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:19,040 Speaker 3: Or how much money do we have? 178 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:22,200 Speaker 2: And that might sometimes feel like, wait a second, that's 179 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 2: initially that's none of your business. I know that a 180 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:26,440 Speaker 2: lot of older people in my family told me that 181 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:29,440 Speaker 2: a lot. But with my family, with my kids, it 182 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:32,720 Speaker 2: is their business. They need to understand that the money 183 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 2: or the things they ask for there is a trade 184 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 2: off in order to be able to give them that, 185 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 2: and so I don't do it from a place of 186 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:39,840 Speaker 2: lack or scarcity. 187 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:40,560 Speaker 3: I try not to. 188 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:43,080 Speaker 2: So it's not that I can't get this because I 189 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 2: don't have the money, it's I am not buying that 190 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 2: for you because that's not something that we are prioritizing 191 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 2: right now, or if we do that, we cannot do 192 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 2: this because we are working towards dis goal as a family. 193 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:59,400 Speaker 2: So I think it's being open and honest that it's 194 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:01,679 Speaker 2: not necessarily that you are broke, like even if you 195 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:04,080 Speaker 2: don't have a lot of money at the moment or 196 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 2: in the time that your child is asking you about something, 197 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:10,439 Speaker 2: but explaining we have money, but it's for this reason. 198 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 2: It's to pay our rent or mortgage, and having those 199 00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 2: open conversations. The other thing I think is really important 200 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 2: for kids is that we live in a society now 201 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 2: everything's instant. Money is invisible a lot to them because 202 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:26,960 Speaker 2: they don't see it where they don't really handle it 203 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:29,320 Speaker 2: as much as we did growing up because just order 204 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 2: it online with the click of a button, or you know, 205 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:34,520 Speaker 2: nowadays you could just hold your phone over at the 206 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 2: register to pay for an item. And so if your 207 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 2: kids are watching, everything just seems, oh, like it's magic. 208 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:43,320 Speaker 2: You know what money like this is it's infinite, and 209 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 2: you do want them to have a sense of that 210 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:48,720 Speaker 2: abundance when it comes to money. But realizing that a 211 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:50,440 Speaker 2: lot of them don't touch it, don't see it, don't 212 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:52,800 Speaker 2: understand the value of a dollar, and start talking to 213 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 2: them about that is really important. And you can do 214 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 2: it as early as you want. It's never too early 215 00:10:57,880 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 2: to start or too late. That's the other thing I 216 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:02,960 Speaker 2: get from parents, where all right, that's fine for maybe 217 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:05,360 Speaker 2: kids under time, but my kids is already sixteen and 218 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:08,319 Speaker 2: we never had these conversations. I'm like, it's never too 219 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 2: late to start and open up those communication lines. 220 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 1: You know. That is so funny to me, Like I 221 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:16,320 Speaker 1: had never thought about that. But you know, my son 222 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:18,920 Speaker 1: will often want to like use the phone to pay, 223 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 1: like when we're in the store, right, and it's like, oh, 224 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:22,840 Speaker 1: this is like a thing for them to do. But 225 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:25,480 Speaker 1: I hadn't even thought about connecting that to the fact 226 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:28,360 Speaker 1: that they don't really see money until it's like time 227 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:30,480 Speaker 1: for the tooth theory, or like if their grandparents give 228 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:34,080 Speaker 1: them money. So would you suggest we start like actually 229 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:37,840 Speaker 1: getting them more familiar with having actual cash and coins. 230 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 2: Yes, so this takes a bit of planning, but not really. 231 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 2: I actually got this suggestion from someone else because I 232 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:45,959 Speaker 2: was struggling with the whole allowance and having enough cash 233 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 2: on hand to give it to them, and they were like, 234 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 2: just go to the bank and take out you know, 235 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 2: whatever amount of money, let's say it's one hundred or 236 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 2: fifty dollars, and put it in singles or small denominations 237 00:11:55,920 --> 00:11:57,439 Speaker 2: so you have it on hand. 238 00:11:57,200 --> 00:11:59,400 Speaker 3: For the month or moving forward. 239 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:01,000 Speaker 2: So you don't have to go to the every week 240 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:03,360 Speaker 2: or every day, but you take out a summer money 241 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 2: it's singles, and then you're able to divvy out to 242 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 2: your kids the singles or money so they have it 243 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:11,360 Speaker 2: and they can touch it and feel it and save 244 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:13,199 Speaker 2: up for it in their own way. 245 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:15,600 Speaker 3: The other advice I would give is that you know, 246 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:16,720 Speaker 3: kids just like us. 247 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 2: When it came time for me to invest in my 248 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:20,880 Speaker 2: early twenties, when they came to me and I got 249 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 2: my job and they said, you. 250 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:24,199 Speaker 3: Know, you're four, oh, one K, you should contribute to it. 251 00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:26,160 Speaker 2: I was like, why, you know who cares about like 252 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 2: the six year old Jamila, I want my money now. 253 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:31,959 Speaker 2: And kids they're just the same. So when we talk 254 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 2: about money and trying to really give them these lessons, 255 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:35,680 Speaker 2: sometimes they don't want to hear it in the way 256 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 2: we relate it because it's not interesting to them. But 257 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:42,040 Speaker 2: you know what's interesting to my kids pokemons and Roebucks 258 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:45,319 Speaker 2: and so all these things that they care about that now. 259 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:47,440 Speaker 2: My son just asked me the other day can I 260 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:51,040 Speaker 2: buy him skins or something on for Fortnite? And he 261 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 2: just got money from his aunt and I said, well, okay, 262 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 2: I can take that money you got from your aunt. 263 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:56,600 Speaker 3: That's how much it will cost. 264 00:12:56,800 --> 00:12:58,240 Speaker 2: I was like, but you know, you said you want 265 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 2: a Pokemon cards and so I can spend twenty dollars 266 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 2: on this, or we can save up to get that 267 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:06,080 Speaker 2: big Pokemon pack that you want, and so talking about 268 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:06,440 Speaker 2: it in. 269 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:09,480 Speaker 3: That way, he was like, oh, and he thought twice. 270 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:10,680 Speaker 2: Instead of just saying I'm just gonna spend it, he 271 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 2: thought twice about which one he valued more, And if 272 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:15,560 Speaker 2: you wanted to save up for something bigger or use 273 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:16,199 Speaker 2: it in the moment. 274 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:19,160 Speaker 1: I love that. I love that. Thank you for those tips. 275 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:21,200 Speaker 1: I'll definitely be trying to practice some of that with 276 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:25,440 Speaker 1: my own little ones. So you already have a wildly 277 00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 1: successful podcast journey to launch, and now you have launched 278 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 1: your first book. What let you know that it was 279 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:35,480 Speaker 1: time to expand the journey to launch universe with a book? 280 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 2: Oh, I love that the universe? 281 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:37,440 Speaker 3: Yes. 282 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 2: Well, honestly, I always knew that I would want to 283 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 2: write a book one day. I had these dreams as 284 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 2: a child, and typically as we get older, we get busy, 285 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:49,600 Speaker 2: we get just we're not as focused. And when I 286 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 2: started the podcast, I didn't understand or know the impact 287 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:56,320 Speaker 2: it would have on listeners or journeyers as I would 288 00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:59,280 Speaker 2: call them, people on this financial independence journey with me. 289 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 2: And I also realize that not everyone listens to podcasts, 290 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 2: you know, doctor Jory, that you will still meet people 291 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:06,199 Speaker 2: and they're like a what, Like how do I listen? 292 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:09,960 Speaker 2: And I just knew that if I could impact people 293 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:13,520 Speaker 2: with just my voice and just the podcasts, that there 294 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 2: was a bigger audience to reach and a deeper connection 295 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:18,520 Speaker 2: to be made with the book because people will come 296 00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:20,440 Speaker 2: to me and say, what is financial independence? Or how 297 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 2: is this different from you know, general personal finance, And 298 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 2: you know, like I could direct them to the episode, 299 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 2: but now I can direct them to a book that 300 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 2: literally maps out and answers all those questions in one place. 301 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 2: And so I just thought it was a great vertical 302 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:39,120 Speaker 2: and a different source of media for people to consume, 303 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:39,840 Speaker 2: whether you listen to. 304 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 3: Podcasts or not. 305 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:43,920 Speaker 2: That I hope that people could fall in love with 306 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 2: or a new audience could discover me and learn about 307 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 2: this journey that so many people don't understand. 308 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:51,080 Speaker 1: M And I think it would be great for that. 309 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 1: It definitely would be great, And I'm curious to see 310 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 1: how it impacts like people listening to the podcast or 311 00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:58,960 Speaker 1: then your podcast listeners then going to grab the book 312 00:14:59,000 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 1: for sure. 313 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 3: Yeah. 314 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:02,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, It's like that relationship with you know, Chicken Our Egg, 315 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 2: And you know, you'll get people who maybe never heard 316 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:07,000 Speaker 2: of the podcast, but now they read the book and 317 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:07,520 Speaker 2: they listen. 318 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:09,720 Speaker 3: So I'm excited. I'm excited for that. 319 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:26,360 Speaker 1: More from our conversation after the break. So, in the book, 320 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:30,040 Speaker 1: you outline five journeyer stages that the reader will travel 321 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:33,280 Speaker 1: on their road to financial independence. Can you share what 322 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:35,840 Speaker 1: those stages are for us? In the hallmarks of each 323 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:36,600 Speaker 1: of those stages. 324 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:39,960 Speaker 2: Yes, So when I first discovered financial independence, and just 325 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:43,040 Speaker 2: to give a quick definition, it is this idea or 326 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:46,080 Speaker 2: the place in which you no longer have to actively 327 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:49,200 Speaker 2: work because you have enough investments or passive income to 328 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:52,720 Speaker 2: pay for your expenses and your lifestyle. Work becomes an option. 329 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:55,080 Speaker 2: You can choose to retire early or. 330 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:56,080 Speaker 3: Continue what you're doing. 331 00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 2: When I first heard that, I was like, sign me up, 332 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:01,600 Speaker 2: how do I accomplish that so I can really be 333 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:04,240 Speaker 2: in control of my life. But then I also realized 334 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:06,960 Speaker 2: that while I was very ambitious and I started on 335 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:09,920 Speaker 2: the journey right away, that so many people, depending on 336 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 2: their starting point, get tripped up. And so I broke 337 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 2: out the financial independence journey because it's a marathon into 338 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 2: these sprints, these smaller sprints, to help encourage people no 339 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 2: matter where they start, that they can move ahead in 340 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:25,479 Speaker 2: the sprints. So the first stage is called the explorer stage. 341 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:29,120 Speaker 2: It's about getting to financial stability. So in this stage, 342 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:31,800 Speaker 2: someone may not be able to pay for their living 343 00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:34,960 Speaker 2: expenses or their minimum debt payments without going into the 344 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 2: red every month or putting things on a credit card. 345 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 3: And so their mission in. 346 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:42,320 Speaker 2: This stage is just to get to stability, be financially stable, 347 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:44,880 Speaker 2: to be able to pay their expenses. When you're able 348 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 2: to do that, you move on to the second stage 349 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:49,360 Speaker 2: of the journey, which is called the cadet journey or stage, 350 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:51,680 Speaker 2: and that is where you're focused on paying off debt. 351 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:54,960 Speaker 2: And this is consumer that I'm considering in this stage, 352 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 2: not a mortgage, not student loans, just because those balances 353 00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 2: can be enormous, and so we're forocusing more on high 354 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 2: interest rate consumer debt that you're working to pay off 355 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:04,360 Speaker 2: in this stage. 356 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:06,840 Speaker 3: Once you pay off that consumer debt, you can move. 357 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 2: To stage three, which is called the aviator stage. That 358 00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 2: is where you are working on building financial security so 359 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:15,200 Speaker 2: you no longer have the debt payments that you have 360 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:17,359 Speaker 2: for your high interest rate debt, so you can focus 361 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:20,960 Speaker 2: on investing and saving more and building up your assets. 362 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:24,080 Speaker 2: Once you have reached a level of security, and for 363 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 2: everyone it's going to be different, you can move to 364 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:29,480 Speaker 2: the fort stage, which is the commander stage. That is 365 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 2: where you have reached work flexibility. That is the stage 366 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:36,080 Speaker 2: I'm currently in right now. So it's not that I 367 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:38,679 Speaker 2: never have to work ever again, but I'm in a 368 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:41,159 Speaker 2: position where I left my job. I could take a 369 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:43,160 Speaker 2: break from journey to launch if I want. We are 370 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:46,520 Speaker 2: comfortable to do something different. You have more control over 371 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:48,679 Speaker 2: your time and what you do for work, So if 372 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:51,439 Speaker 2: you're working in an oppressive environment or even in a 373 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 2: relationship that is not safe, you can leave that. It 374 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:57,200 Speaker 2: won't be because of money that you have to stay, 375 00:17:57,240 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 2: because you have more flexibility. And then the fifth and 376 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:02,880 Speaker 2: final stage is the captain stage. That is the you've 377 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 2: reached financial independence. Work truly is a choice and you 378 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 2: don't have to work again. And with all those stages, 379 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:13,040 Speaker 2: it's going to depend how long it takes for each 380 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 2: person to go through it, depending on their circumstances. You know, 381 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:20,880 Speaker 2: their income, their assets, liabilities, all those things. But within 382 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:23,480 Speaker 2: each stage, even if you're in a stage for a 383 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:25,600 Speaker 2: few years, because it can take few years for someone 384 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:28,680 Speaker 2: or even a decade in some of these stages, there's 385 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:31,919 Speaker 2: freedom at every stage because one less debt that you 386 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:34,840 Speaker 2: pay off in the cadet stage, you have more freedom. 387 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:38,360 Speaker 2: One more asset that you buy or investment that you make. 388 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:41,360 Speaker 2: That's more freedom. So you don't have to reach complete 389 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 2: financial independence or be a captain to enjoy your life. 390 00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 3: You can enjoy it while you're on the journey to 391 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 3: financial independence. 392 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:51,040 Speaker 1: Thank you for that breakdown. I wonder if you can 393 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:54,000 Speaker 1: share some of the maybe common challenges that people might 394 00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:55,840 Speaker 1: face on that journey, like at each of. 395 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:59,720 Speaker 2: Those steps interesting because you can be at a earlier 396 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:04,240 Speaker 2: stage or stuck in an earlier stage like the explorer 397 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 2: or cadet stage. And it's not based on your income, 398 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:09,320 Speaker 2: because there are people who earn a decent amount of 399 00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:12,560 Speaker 2: money and they still feel and are stuck in those stages. 400 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:16,119 Speaker 2: And so income is a driving force to allowing you 401 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:18,600 Speaker 2: to move through these stages, but it's not the only thing. 402 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:22,760 Speaker 2: It's managing and optimizing your expenses, so not necessarily getting 403 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 2: it down to the lowest it can be, because not 404 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 2: everyone wants to be frugal, which I understand and I've 405 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:30,720 Speaker 2: changed my mind about that on my journey. But it's 406 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:34,119 Speaker 2: about what are your goals and what are you willing 407 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:36,480 Speaker 2: to do in order to get there. And so people 408 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 2: when they're in these stages, they find out where they 409 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:41,280 Speaker 2: are and then they think about this idea of financial independence, 410 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:43,359 Speaker 2: and maybe they don't like their job and they do 411 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 2: want to reach it. Then it becomes a exercise at 412 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:50,119 Speaker 2: first of what's my initial plan to get there. So 413 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 2: first you do need a plan, which the book helps 414 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:55,119 Speaker 2: you map out what that initial plan looks like. So 415 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:57,640 Speaker 2: what is your starting point? How many things do you own, 416 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:00,560 Speaker 2: so your assets, what do you owe your life abilities? 417 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:03,679 Speaker 2: How much money are you making? And what are your expenses? 418 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 2: And so those four components are things you can literally 419 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:09,120 Speaker 2: sit down and write out and put a number two 420 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 2: right now. Then there are the intangible, what I call 421 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:15,800 Speaker 2: the intangible components that people tend to gloss over or 422 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:18,800 Speaker 2: want to skip, because it actually is the most work, 423 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:21,879 Speaker 2: and that is working on your mindset and habits, and 424 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:25,119 Speaker 2: it's sometimes not things you can measure, but it makes 425 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:29,800 Speaker 2: everything you do sustainable or even plausible to do. So 426 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:33,080 Speaker 2: I would say for most people, it's understanding what mindset 427 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:35,200 Speaker 2: and habits they have that are either holding them back 428 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:38,320 Speaker 2: to earning more or spending in a way that gives 429 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:41,600 Speaker 2: them joy or learning to invest or pay down debt, 430 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:44,679 Speaker 2: What habits and mindsets are helping that, and what habits 431 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:47,040 Speaker 2: and mindsets are actually not helping that, and what can 432 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:48,879 Speaker 2: you do to work and improve those things. 433 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:51,359 Speaker 1: So you know, Jamila, I would imagine that there are 434 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:55,360 Speaker 1: people who are enjoying our conversation right now, who are saying, SiZ, 435 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 1: the price of everything is much more expensive. 436 00:20:57,880 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 3: Right. 437 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:00,679 Speaker 1: There are articles coming out every day everyday week around 438 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:03,959 Speaker 1: people who you know, want to buy homes but cannot 439 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 1: afford to buy homes. Eggs are more expensive, clothes more expensive, 440 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:10,840 Speaker 1: cause and more expensive. Like everything is much more expensive, 441 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:13,800 Speaker 1: and so they may be thinking like, although this sounds great, 442 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:17,280 Speaker 1: but like, how can I do this realistically? Kind of 443 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:19,000 Speaker 1: given where we are in the world. 444 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:22,440 Speaker 2: And it's valid being you know, inflation is real, and 445 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:24,639 Speaker 2: so many of us were not taught to invest or 446 00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:27,879 Speaker 2: didn't understand it or feel intimidated, and so we're not 447 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:30,080 Speaker 2: able to grow our money in a way that works 448 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 2: for us to help keep up with inflation. 449 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:34,960 Speaker 3: Plus there's just some people who are not earning enough money. 450 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:38,040 Speaker 2: And so I always like to say and meet people 451 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:41,359 Speaker 2: where they are when I'm talking about financial independence, that 452 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:45,560 Speaker 2: some years or some time may need to be spent 453 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:49,479 Speaker 2: just on working on education or your income. So there 454 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:50,639 Speaker 2: are a lot of things you need to work on 455 00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:54,400 Speaker 2: this journey. But in order to increase your income, it's 456 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:56,200 Speaker 2: not something that a lot of people can do overnight. 457 00:21:56,359 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 2: It may take a couple of years. Right in some 458 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:03,120 Speaker 2: investment into whether it's courses or resources. But for people 459 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 2: who are feeling strained and they are doing their best, 460 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:10,359 Speaker 2: it is more about realizing that and giving yourself grace 461 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:13,439 Speaker 2: for that journey. And so you'll hear people when they 462 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:16,239 Speaker 2: talk about their journey, or even me be able to say, oh, 463 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:18,680 Speaker 2: I did this thing or equit my job. But every 464 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:22,199 Speaker 2: one's journey is going to look different depending on their circumstances. 465 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:24,600 Speaker 2: So if you're not earning enough and you know that's 466 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:28,560 Speaker 2: your primary issue right now, then it may just take 467 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:30,919 Speaker 2: some time to work that out. Or if you are 468 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:34,000 Speaker 2: dealing with an expense issue, meaning when you really are 469 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 2: honest with yourself, you look at how much you're spending 470 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:38,119 Speaker 2: and there are ways in which you can cut back 471 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:40,720 Speaker 2: so that you can get to the next stage or 472 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:43,200 Speaker 2: to a goal. Then it may need to be more 473 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:46,520 Speaker 2: disciplined or more systems in place, like a budget that 474 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:49,480 Speaker 2: you follow to help you accomplish some of these things. 475 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:53,000 Speaker 2: But in general, this journey is a privileged one where 476 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:55,040 Speaker 2: it doesn't mean you have to have a lot to 477 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:59,840 Speaker 2: start it, but if you find that you can't because 478 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:04,439 Speaker 2: of legitimate reasons, then those reasons are fine to focus 479 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:07,760 Speaker 2: on in the moment and also to give yourself grace 480 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:09,240 Speaker 2: for how long it may take you to get through 481 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:11,400 Speaker 2: these things, because some things are not in our control. Right, 482 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:15,840 Speaker 2: we can't control the government, inflation, economy, but what can 483 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:18,280 Speaker 2: we control? And those are the things that I like 484 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:20,679 Speaker 2: to focus on to help people through the journey. 485 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:23,120 Speaker 1: So the significant part of the book, like you mentioned, 486 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:25,400 Speaker 1: talks about like this mindset piece, and you even talk 487 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:28,120 Speaker 1: about needing to go to therapy as a part of 488 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:30,880 Speaker 1: the journey to financial independence. Can you talk a little 489 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,439 Speaker 1: bit more about the tying in of talking with the 490 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 1: therapist about some of these things. 491 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:36,960 Speaker 3: You know, it's so interesting. 492 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:41,120 Speaker 2: I think our overall mindset and well being, Like money is. 493 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:42,800 Speaker 3: Just a part of that. It's a big part of it, 494 00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:44,280 Speaker 3: but it's a part of it. 495 00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:48,880 Speaker 2: And sometimes how we interact with people and money, it's 496 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:52,800 Speaker 2: all stemming from like deeper things, whether it is relationships 497 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:55,880 Speaker 2: with people that we want to have or don't have, 498 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:59,240 Speaker 2: and like issues or trauma. It all impacts how we 499 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:01,760 Speaker 2: show up in the world and so being able to 500 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:03,479 Speaker 2: uncover that and you know, you don't have to go 501 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:06,280 Speaker 2: to a money therapist, but just a therapist to talk 502 00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:09,840 Speaker 2: through what are the things inside of you that need 503 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:10,320 Speaker 2: to come out. 504 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:11,600 Speaker 3: I think is really helpful. 505 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 2: I relate it to earning money, right Like, someone may 506 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:18,159 Speaker 2: be not able to speak up for themselves and you know, 507 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:22,160 Speaker 2: ask for that raise or negotiate or feel seen at 508 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 2: their work, even though they're great at what they do 509 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:27,240 Speaker 2: for not necessarily because they're not competent, but because it's 510 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:29,399 Speaker 2: something deeper that if they were able to, you know, 511 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:32,640 Speaker 2: have those conversations work through it, it would impact eventually 512 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:34,719 Speaker 2: their money because of how they show up and how 513 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:38,159 Speaker 2: they advocate for themselves. Even being an entrepreneur, there is 514 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:42,399 Speaker 2: this always needing to put yourself out there to show 515 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:45,480 Speaker 2: the world what you have or to sell something. And 516 00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:48,680 Speaker 2: I realize this in myself sometimes like my maybe inability 517 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:52,159 Speaker 2: or my wanting to protect myself and not show up 518 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:54,320 Speaker 2: in some areas could be tied to a deeper place. 519 00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:56,800 Speaker 3: It's not just money, but it impacts my money. 520 00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:58,520 Speaker 2: And so I think, what, you're able to make those 521 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:02,000 Speaker 2: connections and see that there is a connection, but then 522 00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:05,359 Speaker 2: get professional help to help talk you through those things, 523 00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:08,240 Speaker 2: you will have a domino effect in the other areas 524 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:08,800 Speaker 2: of your life. 525 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:10,679 Speaker 3: And the one big area is money. 526 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:24,040 Speaker 1: More from our conversation after the break. So you also 527 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:25,960 Speaker 1: talk about in the book there are lots of different 528 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,520 Speaker 1: formulas and you do give people lots of different places 529 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:30,719 Speaker 1: to get started. Can you talk about some of the 530 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:33,399 Speaker 1: most important formulas that people will find in the book 531 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:35,680 Speaker 1: and what kinds of things they're going to be helpful. 532 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:36,320 Speaker 3: For right now? 533 00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 2: Don't let that turn you away from the book. There 534 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:41,239 Speaker 2: are formulas, but you don't need to memorize them. It 535 00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:44,320 Speaker 2: is really just a way in which people if you 536 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:46,760 Speaker 2: understand the way money works and how to reach any 537 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:49,879 Speaker 2: goal you have for yourself, then eventually you don't have 538 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:51,560 Speaker 2: to Just like riding a bike, you don't have to 539 00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:52,439 Speaker 2: think about writing it. 540 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:54,280 Speaker 3: You just do it or you have that skill in 541 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:55,000 Speaker 3: your back pocket. 542 00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:58,200 Speaker 2: One of the formulas is the FI formula, and really 543 00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:00,920 Speaker 2: it is a matter of knowing all all the components 544 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:05,239 Speaker 2: that make up your financial independence and money journey. And 545 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:08,120 Speaker 2: we talked about some of it before, but there's six 546 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:10,720 Speaker 2: of them. For of them are the tangible things that 547 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 2: we can list out or write out or numbers for 548 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:18,440 Speaker 2: That is your income, your expenses, your assets, and your liabilities. 549 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,520 Speaker 2: And then two are intangible. They make the tangible happen 550 00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:24,640 Speaker 2: that's your mindset and habits. And really it's a matter 551 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:27,760 Speaker 2: of your income, So how much you bring in minus 552 00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:31,119 Speaker 2: your mandatory expenses, so what you need to spend in 553 00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:37,000 Speaker 2: order to survive, you know, rent, mortgage, groceries, the basics, 554 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:40,280 Speaker 2: equals hopefully a gap. It's what I call a gap 555 00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 2: in the book. It's the money left over. And with 556 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:45,600 Speaker 2: that gap that is how you get ahead in your 557 00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,600 Speaker 2: finances to your goals and to live the life you want. 558 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:50,680 Speaker 2: So this is where we also talk about spending money 559 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:53,159 Speaker 2: on things we enjoy. So with the gap, after you 560 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:56,400 Speaker 2: pay for your mandatory expenses, you are looking to increase 561 00:26:56,440 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 2: your assets so that save and invest, paid on liability 562 00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:03,480 Speaker 2: and also pay for your discussionary expenses and the things 563 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:06,360 Speaker 2: you like doing. And then in order to do that though, 564 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:09,280 Speaker 2: you need enough income. So income drives all that, but 565 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:12,040 Speaker 2: it's really your habits and mindset that make it all work. 566 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:15,399 Speaker 1: Got it? Okay, So you've talked a little bit about, 567 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,520 Speaker 1: like from the mental health angle, how our mindset impacts 568 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:20,880 Speaker 1: our ability to save and how we think about money. 569 00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:24,280 Speaker 1: But I also know that financial planning and having a 570 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:27,359 Speaker 1: budget can also help our mental health. Right, can you 571 00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:29,879 Speaker 1: talk a little bit about some tips and strategies for 572 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,959 Speaker 1: how we might build a budget that actually supports our 573 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:33,639 Speaker 1: mental health. 574 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:34,160 Speaker 3: Right. 575 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:37,199 Speaker 2: I think it's also stepping away from the fact that 576 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:40,679 Speaker 2: a budget gives you constraints and to re engage with 577 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:42,480 Speaker 2: it in a sense that it will give you freedom. 578 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:47,919 Speaker 2: Because if you are someone who has anxiety or just 579 00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:50,800 Speaker 2: second thoughts around where you are with your money, and 580 00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:54,520 Speaker 2: most of us do, is that a budget or a 581 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:56,920 Speaker 2: plan for your money, Because that's what a budget is. 582 00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:59,520 Speaker 2: It's literally telling your money what to do before it 583 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:01,680 Speaker 2: tells you to do because so many of us are 584 00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:05,640 Speaker 2: reacting to you know, situations the money is bossing us around, right, 585 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,400 Speaker 2: But with a budget, you're able to tell your dollars 586 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:11,080 Speaker 2: in advance what your plans are for them. You are 587 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:13,360 Speaker 2: in control, so you say, all right, this is where 588 00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:16,639 Speaker 2: you're spending this money. And when you do that, you 589 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:20,639 Speaker 2: actually have the ability and freedom to spend more without 590 00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,399 Speaker 2: feeling that you should be suathing something else with your money. 591 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:25,200 Speaker 2: So when you go out to brunch with your friends, 592 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 2: which I like doing, or to a restaurant, instead of 593 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:30,040 Speaker 2: feeling like can I really afford this? Like I feel 594 00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:32,439 Speaker 2: bad I should be putting this towards my debt or 595 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:35,520 Speaker 2: having these feelings come up. You know you put outside 596 00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,959 Speaker 2: this money already and you can do this and not 597 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:39,840 Speaker 2: have guilt. 598 00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:40,680 Speaker 3: Or if you. 599 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:42,040 Speaker 2: Decide that you know what, I'm going to go out 600 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:45,200 Speaker 2: for that extra brunch that was not planned for, you 601 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:47,000 Speaker 2: know that there is a plan for your money that 602 00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:49,719 Speaker 2: you can start to readjust to make that brunch doable. 603 00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:52,120 Speaker 2: And so when it comes to budgeting, especially for people 604 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:54,520 Speaker 2: who don't like it or have not tried it, or 605 00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:57,400 Speaker 2: tried it and it has not worked yet, it is 606 00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:01,200 Speaker 2: this idea that it gives you free them. You have 607 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,240 Speaker 2: to stick with it until something sticks. And so if 608 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:08,680 Speaker 2: that means trying differenting budgeting apps, pen and paper, Google 609 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,200 Speaker 2: sheets or Excel, you have to find a method that 610 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:14,360 Speaker 2: works for you. And then also, it's not just enough 611 00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:16,160 Speaker 2: to create the budget. My first thing is if you 612 00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 2: created a budget, that's great, meaning you sat down, you 613 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:20,640 Speaker 2: look at where your money is going, and you have 614 00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:22,880 Speaker 2: numbers and category line items. 615 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:23,920 Speaker 3: It's a great start. 616 00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:26,840 Speaker 2: But you need to let that budget inform you now, 617 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:29,160 Speaker 2: because the point of a budget is it helps you 618 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:32,360 Speaker 2: be proactive and so that you check it as you 619 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:35,800 Speaker 2: go on, whether it's once a week, once every other week, 620 00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:38,600 Speaker 2: depending on where you are on your journey, but that 621 00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:40,960 Speaker 2: you are checking in with it, so the budget is 622 00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:44,280 Speaker 2: able to do its job and you're able to readjust 623 00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:45,280 Speaker 2: if you need to as you go. 624 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:48,640 Speaker 1: And as you were talking, I'm thinking some of it. 625 00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:52,280 Speaker 1: I really feel like the mindset part is really important 626 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:54,960 Speaker 1: because some of that those behaviors don't change just because 627 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 1: you make more money. 628 00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:57,200 Speaker 3: That's the thing. 629 00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:00,280 Speaker 2: And I know people who are financially independent or on 630 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:03,400 Speaker 2: their way and they're still not happy. They still have 631 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:08,400 Speaker 2: a lot of issues with money or not knowing if 632 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:10,920 Speaker 2: they have enough and insecurity around it. And so money 633 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:14,080 Speaker 2: obviously at a certain level, is that takes care of 634 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:18,640 Speaker 2: your security is important, but it's so necessary on this 635 00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:22,360 Speaker 2: journey to really find out and heal whatever needs to 636 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:26,000 Speaker 2: be healed, and to have community and love and enjoy 637 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:28,960 Speaker 2: wherever you are, even if you're at that explorer stage, 638 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:31,000 Speaker 2: even you know, the fact that you even have placed 639 00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:33,800 Speaker 2: yourself on this journey is a big deal. I always 640 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:35,760 Speaker 2: like to say, like that's you need to give yourself 641 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:38,640 Speaker 2: credit for that, because so many people unknowingly are on 642 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:40,960 Speaker 2: this journey. Because the time is going to pass anyway, 643 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:44,720 Speaker 2: You're going to get older, God willing, and you're going 644 00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:46,640 Speaker 2: to need to still take care of yourself, and so 645 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:52,640 Speaker 2: you might as well take back control now before it's. 646 00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:52,400 Speaker 3: Not too far gone. 647 00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:54,560 Speaker 2: But you know before it just takes more work at 648 00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:56,280 Speaker 2: the end of your life, where it's more of a 649 00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:59,760 Speaker 2: burden for other people. So the mindset and thinking about 650 00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:02,840 Speaker 2: how you feel on the journey because it takes so long, 651 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,400 Speaker 2: is important because you don't want to get to the 652 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:08,080 Speaker 2: end of it. Let's just say you say, okay, I 653 00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:10,480 Speaker 2: need a million or two million dollars invested to be 654 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,760 Speaker 2: financially independent, and you do all this work for fifteen 655 00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:15,680 Speaker 2: years or twenty years or whatever it takes for you 656 00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:18,560 Speaker 2: to get there, and then because you kept looking forward 657 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:20,640 Speaker 2: to the next thing or to that thing that that 658 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:23,680 Speaker 2: would make you happy, that you're still not happy. And 659 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:26,720 Speaker 2: I know so many people like that, and I don't 660 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:28,160 Speaker 2: want to be like that. I don't want anyone in this. 661 00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:29,160 Speaker 3: Journey to be like that. 662 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:31,080 Speaker 2: And so it's like, how can you be happy no 663 00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:33,560 Speaker 2: matter where you are, even if you are in debt, 664 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:36,960 Speaker 2: even if you are working to pay just for your 665 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:40,080 Speaker 2: rent and the minimum debt payments. Where can you find 666 00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:44,280 Speaker 2: perspective and encouragement to do that, and that's all mindset 667 00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 2: and the habits that support that to make that possible. 668 00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:50,080 Speaker 2: You know, Jamila, I know you and I have had 669 00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:54,200 Speaker 2: conversations in the past about you doing public speaking in 670 00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:56,840 Speaker 2: this space and like finding that it's just a very 671 00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:59,200 Speaker 2: white space, right there are not a lot of people 672 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:02,280 Speaker 2: who look like you in the financial independence space. Can 673 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:04,280 Speaker 2: you talk a little bit about some of the particular 674 00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:07,760 Speaker 2: challenges that black women may have when it comes to 675 00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:11,720 Speaker 2: following this kind of journey and financial independence. I think 676 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:15,720 Speaker 2: in general, it's this idea because when I started listening 677 00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:18,400 Speaker 2: to a financial independence podcast, they were all white men, 678 00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:21,440 Speaker 2: and sometimes they would have a person of color on 679 00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:23,480 Speaker 2: or a black person on, and I'd be so excited 680 00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:26,320 Speaker 2: because I just knew their perspective was just different. They 681 00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:29,000 Speaker 2: were speaking more to my journey, even if they came 682 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,920 Speaker 2: from a different background. And so what I've seen and 683 00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:34,400 Speaker 2: I am still seeing on my journey, as I'm still 684 00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,920 Speaker 2: on my journey and helping other people, is that there's 685 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:42,520 Speaker 2: just this disconnect of like our starting points, all the 686 00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:46,280 Speaker 2: things that impact us as women, and all the statistics that, well, 687 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:49,040 Speaker 2: how we are the matriarchs of the family and most 688 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:51,640 Speaker 2: things fall on us but then now you doll it 689 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:53,960 Speaker 2: down to people of color and then black women, and 690 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:57,080 Speaker 2: how we still have to show up for mostly everyone, 691 00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:00,760 Speaker 2: not only ourselves, which usually we put last, but everyone 692 00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,080 Speaker 2: else in our life, whether you have kids or not. Right, 693 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:06,200 Speaker 2: it's like family members, and there's so much on our 694 00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:09,040 Speaker 2: shoulders that we are holding and carrying. 695 00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:10,200 Speaker 3: And then this. 696 00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:12,880 Speaker 2: Idea now of well, okay, I know you know about 697 00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:16,680 Speaker 2: like basic personal finance, so budgeting and saving a small 698 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:20,000 Speaker 2: percentage to make sure you're okay when you're maybe sixty five, 699 00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:22,640 Speaker 2: And now I'm asking you to consider something that's a 700 00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:26,160 Speaker 2: lot more audacious and radical, which requires more of you 701 00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:28,840 Speaker 2: and for a lot of people and black women, that 702 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:31,560 Speaker 2: feels like I'm already doing a lot and now you 703 00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:32,360 Speaker 2: want me to do more. 704 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:33,120 Speaker 3: Isn't this enough? 705 00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:35,480 Speaker 2: And I'm like, you know what, you are doing a 706 00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:38,280 Speaker 2: lot and it is amazing. But doing this is not 707 00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:40,840 Speaker 2: to be looked on as a deprivation or something that 708 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:43,440 Speaker 2: takes away from your life. It actually will help your 709 00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:47,200 Speaker 2: life more so. You being able to focus on yourself 710 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:49,959 Speaker 2: and your own finances and making sure you're good first 711 00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:52,760 Speaker 2: allows you when you get to stability, when you get 712 00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:55,120 Speaker 2: to security, to help other people if you want to 713 00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:58,600 Speaker 2: do that, or you being able to wake up and 714 00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:00,360 Speaker 2: choose what you want to do for work, a walk 715 00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:02,720 Speaker 2: away from a situation that is not serving to you. 716 00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:06,880 Speaker 2: Having money and understanding this allows you to do that. 717 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:08,960 Speaker 2: And so I just feel that I understand the load 718 00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:13,399 Speaker 2: is already a lot, and our responsibilities. Sometimes it's just more, 719 00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:16,520 Speaker 2: especially if you have family in another country or state 720 00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:19,600 Speaker 2: that you're helping out. But you can incorporate that in 721 00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:21,840 Speaker 2: your journey as long as you are looking at and 722 00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:25,759 Speaker 2: honestly being selfish in some ways, with yourself first and 723 00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:28,520 Speaker 2: putting yourself first. I say, that's like the biggest thing 724 00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:30,799 Speaker 2: I see is that feedback of already have a lot 725 00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:34,560 Speaker 2: going on, like mentally, it's hard to even consider this, 726 00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:36,440 Speaker 2: And I'm like, you can't afford not to consider this, 727 00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:39,520 Speaker 2: because your life, even if I always say I think 728 00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:41,879 Speaker 2: everyone can make it to this fourth stage that I'm in, 729 00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:46,880 Speaker 2: this fourth stage of flexibility and more options, and you 730 00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:50,080 Speaker 2: can't afford not to try to do that, not just 731 00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:52,640 Speaker 2: for yourself, but yes, for your family, but really just 732 00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:55,479 Speaker 2: for yourself. Because I couldn't have told you, doctor Joy 733 00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:59,480 Speaker 2: that seven years ago I would be here talking to 734 00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:03,200 Speaker 2: you with a book and a podcast just because I 735 00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:06,160 Speaker 2: started the journey. And that's what I want to encourage 736 00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:09,600 Speaker 2: black women to know, is that you deserve this. It's 737 00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:13,960 Speaker 2: your right, and you will be surprised at how amazing 738 00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:16,920 Speaker 2: your life will be in the journey. In the moments, 739 00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:18,960 Speaker 2: not even when you get million dollars you do all 740 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:20,920 Speaker 2: those amazing things you want to do, but in the 741 00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:24,240 Speaker 2: journey who you become as you work on yourself. 742 00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:29,160 Speaker 1: So how do you want people to engage with the book? 743 00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:32,560 Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I want people to actually so buy it. Yes, 744 00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:35,960 Speaker 2: your journey to financial freedom. Buy the book. But I 745 00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:37,920 Speaker 2: really want people to read it. I know we have 746 00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:40,640 Speaker 2: a tendency like we buy books and then we have 747 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:43,400 Speaker 2: well intentions to want to maybe read it, but we don't. 748 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,080 Speaker 2: Then I want this book to be something that people 749 00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:50,040 Speaker 2: can go back to and use as a reference. So like, 750 00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:53,480 Speaker 2: read it through the first time and hopefully it's sparking 751 00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:56,640 Speaker 2: a lot of new cells that allow you to think 752 00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:58,759 Speaker 2: differently about your life and what it can look like. 753 00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:01,680 Speaker 2: And then as you you start to plan your journey, 754 00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:03,880 Speaker 2: which the book allows you to do, is that you 755 00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:07,040 Speaker 2: plan that first journey and what that may look like 756 00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:09,600 Speaker 2: to reach financial independence and then you come back to it, 757 00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:13,399 Speaker 2: because that's the other thing. Your mind will change on 758 00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:18,120 Speaker 2: this journey. Your circumstances will change on this journey, and 759 00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:21,120 Speaker 2: you might want to change your approach. In my earlier years, 760 00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:25,440 Speaker 2: I was really focused on saving and investing, and I 761 00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:26,719 Speaker 2: wasn't too concerned about. 762 00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:28,200 Speaker 3: Enjoying the things. 763 00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:32,759 Speaker 2: Now, as I'm a full time entrepreneur, my kids are 764 00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:36,279 Speaker 2: a little bit older. Now, I want to enjoy my 765 00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:38,800 Speaker 2: money more and lean into that. And so I've changed 766 00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:41,680 Speaker 2: how I go about financial independence. And so I've had 767 00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:43,960 Speaker 2: to come back and readjust my plan, and I will 768 00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:45,920 Speaker 2: still maybe need to go back and readjust it in 769 00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:47,600 Speaker 2: a couple months or a year. And so I want 770 00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:49,640 Speaker 2: people when they read the book to know they can 771 00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:53,120 Speaker 2: come back to it and help them figure out or 772 00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:56,440 Speaker 2: recalibrate what their journey looks like because it is flexible 773 00:36:57,320 --> 00:36:57,719 Speaker 2: live bit. 774 00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:00,719 Speaker 1: So tell us where can we stay connected with you? 775 00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:03,120 Speaker 1: Where can we grab our copy of the book. What 776 00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:05,760 Speaker 1: are your websites as well as any social media handles 777 00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:06,400 Speaker 1: you want to share? 778 00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:10,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, so you can go to your Journey to Financialfreedom 779 00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:12,480 Speaker 2: dot com. That's the book a website, and you can 780 00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:15,919 Speaker 2: find all the places to buy it Amazon, Bookshop dot org, 781 00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:20,200 Speaker 2: walk into your local bookstore, Barnes and Noble, all the places, 782 00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:24,600 Speaker 2: and then I'm at Journey to Launch on Instagram, Twitter, 783 00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:27,479 Speaker 2: and Facebook. I'm also at Jamila Sufront. That's my little 784 00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:29,799 Speaker 2: personal brand handle where I try to share more of 785 00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:32,319 Speaker 2: the personal journey and what it's like to launch a 786 00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:34,520 Speaker 2: book into the world. But you can find me there. 787 00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:37,760 Speaker 2: And then ultimately it's go to your Journey to Financialfreedom 788 00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:40,120 Speaker 2: dot com and pick up the book and become a journeyer. 789 00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:42,239 Speaker 2: So I always like to say, when you're on this 790 00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:44,000 Speaker 2: journey with me, you become a journeyer. 791 00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:45,800 Speaker 3: And I love. 792 00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:48,319 Speaker 2: Being able to connect with you and see how far 793 00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:52,520 Speaker 2: or just how much you can surprise yourself on this journey. 794 00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:55,319 Speaker 1: So absolutely we will be sure to include all of 795 00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:56,880 Speaker 1: that in the show notes. Thank you so much for 796 00:37:56,920 --> 00:37:59,160 Speaker 1: spending some time with us today, Jamila. Thank you for 797 00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:05,440 Speaker 1: having me, Doctor Joe. Absolutely, I'm so glad Jamila was 798 00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:08,359 Speaker 1: able to share her expertise with us today. To learn 799 00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:10,600 Speaker 1: more about her and her work, or to grab a 800 00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:13,879 Speaker 1: copy of your Journey to Financial Freedom, visit the show 801 00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:17,280 Speaker 1: notes at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com, slash financial Freedom 802 00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:19,960 Speaker 1: and don't forget to text two of your girls right 803 00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:23,279 Speaker 1: now and tell them to check out the episode. If 804 00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:26,040 Speaker 1: you're looking for a therapist in your area, visit our 805 00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:29,719 Speaker 1: therapist directory at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash directory. 806 00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:32,680 Speaker 1: And if you want to continue digging into this topic 807 00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:35,879 Speaker 1: or just being community with other sisters, come on over 808 00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:38,560 Speaker 1: and join us in the Sister Circle. It's our cozy 809 00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:41,520 Speaker 1: corner of the Internet designed just for black women. You 810 00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:45,160 Speaker 1: can join us at community dot Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. 811 00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:49,120 Speaker 1: This episode was produced by Frida Lucas, Elise Ellis, and 812 00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:53,879 Speaker 1: Zaria Taylor. Editing was done by Dennis and Bradford. Thank 813 00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:57,279 Speaker 1: y'all so much for joining me for another TVG Library episode. 814 00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:00,239 Speaker 1: We'll be back with our regular weekly episode on whens Day. 815 00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:02,680 Speaker 1: Until then, take good care.