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Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't. Uh, you don't make friends that way.

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Speaker 1: And in New York he'll be like, hey man, let's

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Speaker 1: go to this deli and get a sandwich. I'll be like, yo,

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Speaker 1: I funk with you. You know the best delis. Did

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Speaker 1: you take me to a fucking corner store and be like, hey, dog,

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Speaker 1: let's let's eat here. Beat your eggs chips in yours

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Speaker 1: are racist money stuff. I can't tell me. Yep, yep, yep.

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Speaker 1: There it is. There it is. Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome

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Speaker 1: to another phenomenal episode of My Mama Told Me, the

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Speaker 1: podcast where we dive deep, deep into the pockets of

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Speaker 1: black conspiracy theories and we finally work to prove that

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Speaker 1: the P in Swaggy p actually stands for proletariat. That's right.

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Speaker 1: Nick Young has been a Marxist this entire time. His

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Speaker 1: whole basketball career was just a political statement, and you

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Speaker 1: motherfucker's weren't paying attention. The man is trying to introduce

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Speaker 1: equality in a different way in America, and you guys

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Speaker 1: have been treating him like a fool, but not me.

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Speaker 1: I get it, Swaggy proletariat. I'm aware of the work

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Speaker 1: that you're doing. I'm your host, Lengthsthing Kerman as always

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Speaker 1: very excited to be here. I'm pumped, I'm feeling good.

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Speaker 1: I took a big old dump before I got in,

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Speaker 1: so I'm I'm empty. I'm loose. You know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: You gotta come in loosen, buddy, I'm loosing. You know

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Speaker 1: who else is loose? You know who else is I

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Speaker 1: have to imagine takes big dumps and feels good about him?

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Speaker 1: Is my guest today, my yesterday. He's such a He's

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Speaker 1: such a funny fucking guy. He's so hilarious. You know

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Speaker 1: him from his work on on Sherman's Showcase. You know

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Speaker 1: him from Comedy Central. You know him most importantly from

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Speaker 1: his brand new sketch show called Sneak This on br Kicks.

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Speaker 1: So funny, so talented. Give it up from my guest,

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Speaker 1: Mr Rob Hey, But I did not know that about

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Speaker 1: Swagey Pete. Oh yeah, it's it's all. It's all in

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Speaker 1: there makes sense. He shot the three and then turned

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Speaker 1: around because he didn't want to look at capitalism. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's like, you all are making the mistake of celebrating

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Speaker 1: these big grand achievements when we should be sharing it,

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Speaker 1: mixing it amongst the people you know for sure, for sure,

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Speaker 1: you seem so old. And that's that's why, that's why

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Speaker 1: I like you. Rob. It's now easily your swage by

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Speaker 1: my bullshit. You came to us today. I don't want to.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to funk around here, Rob. Okay, I don't.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to jibber and jabber here because you

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Speaker 1: came to us today with a a conspiracy theory that

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Speaker 1: that I said this to you already, That number one

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Speaker 1: I had never heard of before in my life. This,

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Speaker 1: this wasn't on my radar. I wasn't you know. I

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Speaker 1: keep my ear to the conspiracy theory streets, and this one,

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Speaker 1: this one ain't buzzing number one. But then number two

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Speaker 1: also is one that I didn't realize a person could

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Speaker 1: be as passionate about as you've described your mother to

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Speaker 1: be about this one. So this is exciting, and I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna make sure I I get the phrasing exactly as

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Speaker 1: you gave it to me. You said, my mama told

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Speaker 1: me white gravy is for white people and brown gravy

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Speaker 1: is for black people. That's correct. Tell me more. Okay.

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Speaker 1: So I grew up in Atlanta Georgia, pretty black city surroundings.

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Speaker 1: High school percent black except for white Mike. And his

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Speaker 1: name wasn't Mike. Okay, uh yeah, you know principle was

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Speaker 1: that a play on that Mr. Cooper spin off? It

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Speaker 1: was it was a play on the Wayne's Brothers character, right,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't Mr Wayne's Brothers and they didn't get his

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Speaker 1: own spin off. Yeah yeah, yeah, sleeping on the couch,

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Speaker 1: white Mike. That's what we call them. One white person

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Speaker 1: in our great Yeah. So I get to college. I

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Speaker 1: get to the University of Georgia, school that I think

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Speaker 1: at the time was eight percent black, complete culture. Shock,

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Speaker 1: first time really being around white people, like like all

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Speaker 1: day every day. And those are those are those big

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Speaker 1: corn fed white people. Those ain't just uh that's not

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Speaker 1: like a casual introduction into white people that that sort

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Speaker 1: of look and move like you do. These are big

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Speaker 1: old country whites. Yeah, yeah, no, they're not the whites

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Speaker 1: I was watching on the o C exactly totally different.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah no, the people cross the hall did dip.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, that's time I'm seeing seeing that type of thing.

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Speaker 1: And so we are in the dining halls in University

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Speaker 1: of Georgia Award winning like the best food. You know,

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Speaker 1: we have one dining hall. It's twenty four hours just

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Speaker 1: food at any time, just you know, pushing those metabolisms

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Speaker 1: to the limit. So we get there and and at

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Speaker 1: breakfast sometimes they have biscuits, but then they have white gravy.

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Speaker 1: And that was my first time eating it, and it

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Speaker 1: was good. I liked it. And so then I feel

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Speaker 1: like we went to Cracker Barrero or something with my

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Speaker 1: mom one time she came in town, went the Cracker

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Speaker 1: Barrel and I had sausage gravy with my biscuit. You

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Speaker 1: would have thought I had like a Nazi tattoo. You

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Speaker 1: would have thought I had like like something crazy heaving.

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Speaker 1: She just like was so mad, and she was like,

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Speaker 1: you know, you're not supposed to be eating gray And

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Speaker 1: I'm like what, I didn't know. I didn't know. And

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Speaker 1: so then and my sister was like, yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: you're not supposed to be eating white gravy. You know,

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Speaker 1: like I might as well have brought a white girl

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Speaker 1: home like like that. That's how they were treating me.

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Speaker 1: They were acting like I betrayed my race by bringing

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Speaker 1: white gravy. Well, there's so much here that I love

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Speaker 1: because because in a beautiful way, you went off to

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Speaker 1: college to better yourself. Do you know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: You went off to to go get the education that

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Speaker 1: I imagine your parents worked very hard to encourage you

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Speaker 1: to get and and provide for you and all the things.

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Speaker 1: You go off to college. They're they're they're sitting at

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Speaker 1: home and they're thinking, our our sweet boy are lovely,

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Speaker 1: Our sweet boy, he's done it. He's he's finally made it.

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Speaker 1: And and you're secretly at college eating the Devil's the

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Speaker 1: Devil's topic. You know, you're just you're just dipping biscuits

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Speaker 1: and the Devil's juice, and and unbeknownst to your mother,

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Speaker 1: who then takes you to cracker Barrel, which already is

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Speaker 1: a problematic position for her to take if she's worried

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Speaker 1: about you. Loves cracker barrel to hey, quite gravy. It

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Speaker 1: loves crackle Barrel. Like there's a picture of us. It's

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Speaker 1: on I G somewhere. We're in rocking chairs waiting till

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Speaker 1: like going the cracker barrel, like we my grandmother loves

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Speaker 1: cracker barrel. Like when they like came out like, hey,

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Speaker 1: there's some racist issues. We stopped going for like maybe

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Speaker 1: a year, like maybe we stopped going and then ninety

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Speaker 1: nine we went right back. She took a quick respite,

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Speaker 1: just a little break in in the midst of the

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Speaker 1: developing Willennium. She said, I'll step back, I'll give this

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Speaker 1: a second, but then I'll come back to Cracker Barrel

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Speaker 1: because I can't get enough of it once. Jesse Jackson

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Speaker 1: got everything straight at Cracker Barrel. But but the more

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Speaker 1: beautiful thing is she takes you to to what could

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Speaker 1: one could argue is maybe one of the whitest restaurants

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Speaker 1: that exists, certainly in the South, and then gets angry

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Speaker 1: at you. It feels betrayed by you, even when she

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Speaker 1: realizes that you have now subscribed to some of the

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Speaker 1: white dishes that this white restaurant searchs with cracker in

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Speaker 1: the name Cracker Barrel. Yeah, okay, So so she says

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Speaker 1: this to you. She goes, you know you're not supposed

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Speaker 1: to be eating that. You're your sisters as you know

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Speaker 1: you're not supposed to be eating that. What do you

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Speaker 1: then do? Do you then spit it out of your

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Speaker 1: mouth and you say I'll never do this again, or

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Speaker 1: you do do you stand up for your right to

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Speaker 1: eat this white gravy. I just stand up for for

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Speaker 1: the fact that it just seemed ridiculous. Sure, you know,

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Speaker 1: I just was like, we eat sausage. You're cool with sausage.

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Speaker 1: You're cool with sausage patties links. However, but for some reason,

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Speaker 1: when it'send a gravy, it's it's a problem. What do

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Speaker 1: you think it is? What? What do you think triggers

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Speaker 1: triggers her so much that makes the white gravy so offensive.

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Speaker 1: I think that my mom is is a New Yorker,

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Speaker 1: and so she she was a transplant to the South,

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Speaker 1: and I think she associates white gravy with the old

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Speaker 1: South h old. That's now. That is a very astute observation,

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Speaker 1: because I'll be honest, not having spent much time in

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Speaker 1: the South at all, I growing up had no I

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Speaker 1: wasn't even aware of white gravy. White gravy isn't necessarily

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Speaker 1: a common thing where I'm from, certainly not in like

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Speaker 1: the major cities of like the North and Midwest. Like

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Speaker 1: that's not we ain't fucking around in white gravy, all

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Speaker 1: our gravy dark skin where I'm from. You know what

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Speaker 1: I'm saying, And it certainly ain't as much of a

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Speaker 1: breakfast thing as it is, like, uh, gravies for for

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Speaker 1: big old hearty meals that ain't breakfast for sure. And

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Speaker 1: I and in my travels, I have learned that people

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Speaker 1: outside of the South don't know how to do like gravy.

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Speaker 1: And so it's it's one of those things where you

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Speaker 1: know if if you get the wrong white gravy, it

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Speaker 1: will turn you out forever. You're like, I'm never putting

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Speaker 1: that google ever again. It's not sweet, and it's not

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Speaker 1: it's not good. Yeah, So it's it's one of those

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Speaker 1: things where you gotta have the right white gravy in

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Speaker 1: order to really appreciate it. I have a theory that

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Speaker 1: no matter where you're from, everyone loves their trash. I

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Speaker 1: like this, I like your head. Okay. So you know,

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Speaker 1: like like you'll meet someone they'll be from a place

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Speaker 1: and they'll be like, well, you had to grow up

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Speaker 1: with it. You had you know. You you go to Nebraska,

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Speaker 1: they're like, you ever had a runsa And it's like

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Speaker 1: the sandwich it's got onions. It's kind of like the

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Speaker 1: bread is fried and everything will tear your stomach up

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Speaker 1: if you didn't grow up with it. But it's great,

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Speaker 1: you know, like Philly cheese steaks, like you know, like

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Speaker 1: Mexican food out here, like you know, like everybody has

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Speaker 1: their food that you know you shouldn't be eating, but

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Speaker 1: because you have nostalgia for it, you love it. Where

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Speaker 1: I where I'm from, Uh, we used to be able

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Speaker 1: to go to a corner store by a bag of

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Speaker 1: flaming hots, and then you could get the dude in

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Speaker 1: the back to put some like meat and some nacho

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Speaker 1: cheese on top of the flaming hots in the bag,

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Speaker 1: so it would just be like a pocket of of

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Speaker 1: nacho flaming hots and you eat it with a fork.

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Speaker 1: And that ship you used to fucking bang, you know

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Speaker 1: what I mean? Like as person, Yeah, I fu but

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Speaker 1: I loved it, you know what I'm saying. Like I

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Speaker 1: would die for that ship, and I would defend I

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Speaker 1: would defend my house and home in honor of a

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Speaker 1: bag of flaming hots covered in nacho cheese and and

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Speaker 1: unproofed meat, you know what I mean. But now, if

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Speaker 1: if talking to a person who obviously didn't grow up

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Speaker 1: with that experience, I fully respect that. You go, hey, dog,

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Speaker 1: don't do that no more. Yeah. No, if I saw

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Speaker 1: that at eight, I'm like, I'm game, yeah, you know, No,

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Speaker 1: in my thirties, I'm like that that's a bag of

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Speaker 1: flame and hats might take me out now. But you know,

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Speaker 1: like like in the middle of the country, they have

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Speaker 1: covers a place that will sell you cheese curds and

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Speaker 1: a milk shade, and it's like that should be illegal.

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Speaker 1: That's not that literally is is just selling a cork

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Speaker 1: for your anis, Like, it's not. You might as well

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Speaker 1: just cork your anis directly and just call it that.

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Speaker 1: But I did a school in Wisconsin and I was like,

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Speaker 1: I'm not gonna be able to come to Colvis again.

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Speaker 1: So I like their ice cream. I like the cheese curves.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna try to do them both. Have sense. I respect.

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Speaker 1: I respect that you took that risk. People love Whitecastle,

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Speaker 1: you know, I love white Castle, right like people who

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Speaker 1: grew up around Whitecastle love white Castle. My father's from Louisville, Kentucky,

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Speaker 1: the big white Castle town, White Castle. White white Castle

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Speaker 1: is huge and little, Like that's what a sad statement

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Speaker 1: to stay about anywhere that somebody lives to be like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's a big white castle. Then, like the judgment and

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Speaker 1: and just shipping on them without saying it directly that

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Speaker 1: you're doing by calling them a big white castle town

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Speaker 1: is chef's kiss, you know. But so I know that

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Speaker 1: love for Whitecastle. But then when I got to New York,

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Speaker 1: it was like, Oh, these people never had good white Castle,

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Speaker 1: so they don't expect it, so they're not making it like, oh,

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Speaker 1: white Castle could be good, you know, like there's a

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Speaker 1: difference between Ohio white Castle and New York Brooklyn, you know,

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Speaker 1: Bushwick Whitecastle. Yes, when when we were and you and

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Speaker 1: I were in New York around the same sort of

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Speaker 1: like era. When we were in New York, there were

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Speaker 1: like two white castles that I at least was aware of.

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Speaker 1: There are three. There were two. There was one in

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Speaker 1: bed Sty, there was one in bush Twik across from

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Speaker 1: Legion Bar where that open mic was, and then finally

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Speaker 1: there was one in the Bronx. Now it was Harlem

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Speaker 1: up like when you were trying to go to the airport,

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Speaker 1: you could like get off on like one of the

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Speaker 1: Harlem stops and then be at a white Castle and

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Speaker 1: then catch the bus to get to the airport. All

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Speaker 1: of those places. While I did eat at all three

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Speaker 1: of those locations and listen. I'm a fan. I'm a

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Speaker 1: fan first, I'm a fan always White Castle. If you

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Speaker 1: want to do an endorsement with me, goddamn it, I'll

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Speaker 1: take the minimum. I'm just a fan of your workfellas,

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Speaker 1: Mr Castle. I I love what you do. That said,

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Speaker 1: I agree with you. They're not putting the same effort

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Speaker 1: care love into them little ass burgers and onions that

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Speaker 1: you would find in a state that prides itself on good.

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Speaker 1: White Castle. Nashville, the furthest South White Castle goes. So

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Speaker 1: you know, like so on the way to Little go

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Speaker 1: go through Nashville, that's the first time you can get

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Speaker 1: the White Castle. That's especially they got crystals and White Castle.

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Speaker 1: It's it's yeah, that's like that that meme with the

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Speaker 1: Crip and the blood tied their flags together, That's what

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Speaker 1: that is for sure for sure. So yeah, but I

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Speaker 1: when I got to Brooklyn, I'm like, there's a White

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Speaker 1: Castle walking distance from my house. I'm gonna go there.

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Speaker 1: And then I mean it just I just felt the

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Speaker 1: like disbelief and like, you know, you could see everything

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Speaker 1: that's going on in the back and I could just

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Speaker 1: feel like, oh, these people they don't believe in good

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Speaker 1: fast food. That I can't make good fast food because

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Speaker 1: they don't believe in good fast food. No, they think

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Speaker 1: they're better than this and therefore can't make the product

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Speaker 1: that it deserves to be. M you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: It's it's it's no different frankly than fucking drugs, right

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Speaker 1: that Like, at the end of the day, there is

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Speaker 1: a different between like shit heroin and great heroin, and

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Speaker 1: and it's neither one of them is good for you,

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Speaker 1: but you want the good heroine. And at least the

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Speaker 1: Midwest and the South when it comes to fast food

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Speaker 1: and some of the other less coveted things, they at

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Speaker 1: least take the time to make the good version of

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Speaker 1: the bad thing, if that makes But see they don't

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Speaker 1: have corner stores. In New York. They got corner stores.

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Speaker 1: They'll make a sandwich next to where you buying random groceries,

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Speaker 1: and that's acceptable. But you know, in the South, if

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Speaker 1: you get a hot dog next to you know where

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Speaker 1: you buy a lottery tickets and highly frowned upon. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So where do you stand now in the white gravy conversation?

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Speaker 1: Are you still a white gravy advocate? Have you backed

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Speaker 1: off of your white gravy beliefs. Where where do you

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Speaker 1: live in this whole? Okay, I treat white gravy like

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Speaker 1: how like liberal with conservative parents treat their views like

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Speaker 1: I'm not gonna bring white gravy home for the holiday,

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Speaker 1: you know, but on my own time, i might sneak

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Speaker 1: and have some white gravy while I'm in the South. Yeah, damn, okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna talk about it. I'm not gonna be like,

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Speaker 1: you know, oh yeah, I had some biscuits, you know,

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Speaker 1: and then open the whole conversation of oh did you

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Speaker 1: put on your biscuits. I'm not gonna You're not You're

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Speaker 1: not coming home, and like taking a big stance where

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Speaker 1: you're like, mom, I'm a white gravy man, fucking yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm not doing that. I'm thinking this except me for

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Speaker 1: who I am. I'm not gonna ruin Christmas. I'm not

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Speaker 1: gonna do that. That's fair and honestly that that to

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Speaker 1: me feels like the more reasonable approach to something that

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Speaker 1: makes your family uncomfortable, like even politically socially gravely, I

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Speaker 1: think you had some point just have to go this

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Speaker 1: is for me, it's not for them. And as long

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Speaker 1: as I am not hurting them and they are not

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Speaker 1: hurting me. We can live with these things separately. They

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Speaker 1: don't have to accept every element of who I am

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Speaker 1: in order for us to be able to function and

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Speaker 1: enjoy each other. That's real, that's real. I think. Also,

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Speaker 1: I don't know how to make it. If I knew

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Speaker 1: how to make white gravy, it might be like another story,

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Speaker 1: because then I could I could just whip some up

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Speaker 1: in the kitchen and just really drive everybody crazy. But

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Speaker 1: because I don't know how to make it, that's you know,

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Speaker 1: that's another thing. Do you do you think your mom

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Speaker 1: has ever had white gravy? Is this like a green

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Speaker 1: eggs in Ham type situation? It might be. It might

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Speaker 1: be a green eggs and Ham sprinkled with a little

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Speaker 1: you know, civil rights movement, yeah, and yeah, slavery and whatnot.

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Speaker 1: But but green eggs and Ham, I'm sure in in

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Speaker 1: the Dr. Seuss universe, green Eggs and Ham comes from

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Speaker 1: a dark history of of abuse and fucking, you know, genocide.

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Speaker 1: There's probably genocide behind the green eggs in hand. That

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Speaker 1: Sam I Am character. He had a much more complicated

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Speaker 1: stance than the book I think leads us to believe

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Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, no, there's a reason why they're making

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Speaker 1: people try green eggs. Yeah, there's a you know, like

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Speaker 1: like food is scarce, Yes, food is scarce. These green

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Speaker 1: eggs are all we have left, and they come from

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Speaker 1: a terribly dark history. But you know, you gotta try him, apparently,

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Speaker 1: and honestly, that's how they get you, because they they

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Speaker 1: trick you into submitting to what's left and the what's

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Speaker 1: left cause it's it comes from pain, it comes from tragedy,

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Speaker 1: it comes from hurt. That you can't uncook, that you

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Speaker 1: can't unboil or scramble if you will in a box. Okay,

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Speaker 1: let me ask you this question. Do you feel like

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Speaker 1: your mother or your family in general have other sort

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Speaker 1: of like foods that they associate with, like specifically white people,

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Speaker 1: that they would be equally sort of flabbergasted by you

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Speaker 1: choosing to to like eat or introduced to the family.

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Speaker 1: M M, I don't know. I can't think of another

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Speaker 1: another instance. I'm trying to think of other foods. This

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Speaker 1: is the one I've this. My my family is really

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Speaker 1: like that's the thing. We're like, we're we're not that family,

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Speaker 1: Like we're not that like my mom makes cast roles

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Speaker 1: like like of all the people in the world, like

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Speaker 1: this is where she draws the line. But you know

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00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:12,760
Speaker 1: she's she's flirting with some some some stereotypes that that

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Speaker 1: are not with black people, like makes Green being Cassero sometimes. Wow. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I've never had that from a black person. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I I never understand spinach cast role. It's like, what, like,

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Speaker 1: all castle rolls to me are the same. They just

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Speaker 1: take a vegetable and then make it worse. It looks nice,

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00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:41,320
Speaker 1: it looks nice, but it's like, I'd rather just have

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Speaker 1: this vegetable by itself. It's probably better. I didn't grow

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Speaker 1: up with casse roles. I don't know a lot about them.

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Speaker 1: I did really like uh and granted, and this is

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Speaker 1: worth noting, I have a very shitty palette, right, Like

353
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Speaker 1: my taste buds don't work well. I'll pretty much eat anything.

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Speaker 1: I am not a particularly picky person nor a particularly

355
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Speaker 1: discerning person, and when it comes to the food that

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Speaker 1: I'll put in my mouth. But I did genuinely love

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Speaker 1: like Tuna Helper, and I feel like Tuna Helper was

358
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Speaker 1: as close to a casse role as my family could

359
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Speaker 1: find itself. You know what, I mean, it's essentially casserole.

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Speaker 1: It's just now in a box. And most people would

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Speaker 1: be like, you should kill yourself for eating that, and

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Speaker 1: I'd be like, as long as I'm buried with some

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Speaker 1: tuna casserole, I kill myself right now. Tuna helper, man, Yeah,

364
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:39,399
Speaker 1: I don't what So what is tuna helper? Is it?

365
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Speaker 1: You put it with the tuna or it's its own

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Speaker 1: thing now it's it's an offshoot of Hamburger Helper. It

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Speaker 1: was Hamburger helper being like we killed the game or

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00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:53,440
Speaker 1: Hamburger not less funk around in other meats. And then

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Speaker 1: they use tuna fish and much in the way that

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Speaker 1: you would with with Hamburger helper. You're basically, uh, you're

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Speaker 1: mixing their seasonings and pre ingredients with the meat that

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00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:10,520
Speaker 1: you purchased to create a noodle slash meat casserole to

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Speaker 1: serve to unsuspecting victims. Okay, okay, this sounds smelly, It

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Speaker 1: sounds like that sound good. But I've definitely had hamburg

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Speaker 1: a head. But we definitely grew up with the glove

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00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 1: for sure. But yeah I didn't, Yeah, I didn't go

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Speaker 1: that far into the into the tuna helper. If you're

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00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:36,840
Speaker 1: not in the Helper multiverse? What are you doing? You know,

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00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:43,120
Speaker 1: it's truly, it's a it's a delightful male if you

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Speaker 1: don't have great standards for what a good meal is.

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Speaker 1: M h okay, let me ask you this last question

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00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 1: that we'll go to break. Do you feel like your

383
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Speaker 1: mother in any way has changed because you're telling me

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Speaker 1: this happened when you were in college. This was so

385
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:04,040
Speaker 1: I assume at least a decade ago that had this

386
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:07,719
Speaker 1: experience happened. Do you feel like there's any chance that

387
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 1: your mother has has come around to now appreciate or

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Speaker 1: at least respect white gravy differently than she did before.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think she knows them on killing because

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00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:23,560
Speaker 1: I'm around. But other than that, I think, you know,

391
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Speaker 1: I don't think my mom will ever ever eat white gray.

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00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:32,080
Speaker 1: I think it's a rap, you know, I don't I

393
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:35,199
Speaker 1: don't really know the origin, Like, I don't know, you know,

394
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 1: what happened to her. What you know, if she sees

395
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 1: white's only when she sees the gravy getting put on

396
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:47,399
Speaker 1: the plate or what. But yeah, I just if there

397
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 1: was some kind of paper bag test or something. Yeah,

398
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:54,240
Speaker 1: but I just yeah, I do like to imagine your

399
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 1: mother as a young child, dining somewhere with with her family,

400
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 1: and then uh, a mean white man walks into a

401
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Speaker 1: restaurant and and splashes her in the face with a

402
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:09,719
Speaker 1: couple of hot gravy, hot white gravy, and that just

403
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 1: it marred her, had scarred her and left her with

404
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:15,000
Speaker 1: this bad taste in her mouth that she'll never be

405
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 1: able to recover from. And then you, her beautiful baby boy,

406
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,679
Speaker 1: does the most uh, I guess offensive thing that you

407
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:26,639
Speaker 1: could have done by by eating the poison right in

408
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 1: front of her. Damn, that's that's sad. I gotta ask,

409
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 1: I gotta ask her. You gotta get my mom on

410
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:38,720
Speaker 1: the phone. Yeah, just as her. Did you get splashed

411
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Speaker 1: with white gravy? Is that why we listen to so

412
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:48,439
Speaker 1: much Al Green growing up, because you can relate he

413
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:52,639
Speaker 1: got splash. Grits is probably far worst than gravy. You know,

414
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,360
Speaker 1: I think instand this, I think how Green will tell

415
00:26:55,400 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 1: you first hand, it's way worse. All Right, We're gonna

416
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:03,639
Speaker 1: take a break. We'll be back with more Rob Hayes

417
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:17,440
Speaker 1: and more. My mama told me, and we are bad.

418
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:25,640
Speaker 1: My man is supposed to meet with this ship. Yeah,

419
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,879
Speaker 1: we're back here with more robes more. My mama told me,

420
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 1: we're still talking about that infamous white gravy and whether

421
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:35,879
Speaker 1: or not it is in fact the work of the

422
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:39,359
Speaker 1: white devil, whether the white man is the true owner

423
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:41,879
Speaker 1: of white gravy, and if us, the black people, the

424
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 1: people of color in the world are are meant to

425
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 1: strictly stay on the colored gravy side of the line.

426
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:52,240
Speaker 1: That's that's the conversation at hands. Do you think that

427
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 1: that are other races struggling with this same conversation, I said,

428
00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:58,639
Speaker 1: people of color, But I don't know if this is

429
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,439
Speaker 1: like our you know what I mean? Are they're brown

430
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 1: people wondering if they they too need to avoid white

431
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:08,360
Speaker 1: gravy because of the white man's influence. I don't think

432
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:10,760
Speaker 1: it's a black white thing. I think I think it's

433
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:14,720
Speaker 1: a poc white thing. I think I think people of

434
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:19,720
Speaker 1: color it's supposed to have brown gravy and and and

435
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 1: white gravy is is purely for white people. That's that's

436
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 1: pretty funked up. I say that that people of color

437
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:32,760
Speaker 1: all get lumped into a single gravy, or at least

438
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:35,399
Speaker 1: the darker gravvies, and white people just get to hold

439
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 1: onto an entire you know what I mean, They got

440
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 1: a whole little sector to themselves. It's not one gravy,

441
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 1: but it's it's one color. So you know, like the

442
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:47,560
Speaker 1: gravy they put on a fool young at the at

443
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 1: the Chinese restaurant looks like so food gravy that you

444
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 1: put on stuffing looks like you know, like like all

445
00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 1: the all the poc gravy looks the same. The only

446
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:07,800
Speaker 1: gravy that doesn't look the same, it's sausage gravy. White gravy.

447
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:11,960
Speaker 1: Goddamn it. Okay, Well, I did some research that I

448
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 1: would love to unpack with you, and I think I

449
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 1: hope that there's some of this that might be a

450
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:21,960
Speaker 1: little illuminating for both of us, and I I I

451
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 1: encourage you to refute and discuss as much as you wish,

452
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 1: because some of this, I don't know is necessarily hugely

453
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 1: even on topic to what you you've introduced. But I

454
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 1: do think introduces a bunch of interesting conversations. So it's

455
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 1: a pretty hard topic to look up via Google search,

456
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, It's not it's not an

457
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 1: easily google ble thing. Were I typed in do black

458
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:55,239
Speaker 1: people like white gravy, and then it just ended up

459
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,720
Speaker 1: being like a bunch of fatass Southern people saying very

460
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 1: jarring things about how much they like putting gravy on

461
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 1: everything they eat, like everything, like there was people talking

462
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 1: about At one point somebody said they they consider gravy

463
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 1: more of a beverage than a topic. That's scary. Yeah,

464
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,800
Speaker 1: that's scary. I didn't care for it at all. I've

465
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 1: I had, I felt sick. I had to walk away,

466
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 1: and then I came back. Not new, but but different

467
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 1: for George, because once cools, it's it's a different thing.

468
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 1: It's yeah, and if it can jeels and starts to separate,

469
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:43,480
Speaker 1: but somebody's drinking it anyway. There does seem to be

470
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,480
Speaker 1: and this this starts to get into some of the

471
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:49,920
Speaker 1: the history of this whole white gravy thing. There does

472
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 1: seem to be an actual origin of sausage gravy, which

473
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 1: I didn't realize. There they they've traced the actual origin

474
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:03,760
Speaker 1: of sausage grave feed to southern Appalachia in the late

475
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 1: eighteen hundred Civil War time, you know what I mean,

476
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:10,920
Speaker 1: Right around them Civil War times, whities came up with

477
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 1: white gravy that's interesting. Yeah, it was originally apparently called

478
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 1: sawmill gravy because it was cheap and calorie dance and

479
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:24,480
Speaker 1: an easy go to meal to feed the sawmill workers

480
00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 1: of the area. Particularly they would be, you know, having

481
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 1: to spend all day carrying this lumber and and doing

482
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:34,960
Speaker 1: all this ship to to make sure that black people

483
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 1: uh stayed I guess as property, and you know, they

484
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 1: had to be fed. And so an easy way to

485
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 1: feed them was with with thick ass bread and an

486
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 1: an additional like topping of gravy which was easy to

487
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 1: make and it would fill them up for the day.

488
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 1: Remind me what is the sawmill? Uh? Sawmill, I believe

489
00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 1: refers to basically just the lumber, Like that's where they

490
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 1: make lumber and saw it turn it into other ship

491
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:09,959
Speaker 1: got to plantation wood. Hell yeah, I also could be

492
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 1: very wrong. Rock. I am what's known as almost smart.

493
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:19,120
Speaker 1: I don't actually know some stuff, and I just talk

494
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 1: in a way that makes me seem like I might

495
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:26,080
Speaker 1: actually know what I'm talking. You know, I always I

496
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 1: always default to you when I'm around Lakes, and it's

497
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:32,040
Speaker 1: always like, all right when Lakes is a smart guy,

498
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 1: No man, he says, it's fact I say a lot

499
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 1: of stupid stuff. I come to the argument the other

500
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 1: day with with a few friends because I didn't realize

501
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:45,560
Speaker 1: that babies are born in a sack, do you know

502
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 1: what I mean? Like, we were having an argument where

503
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:51,760
Speaker 1: where it was suggested that some babies can come out

504
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 1: in the sack that's inside the mother's womb, and I

505
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 1: I was very defiant. I said, no, there is no sack.

506
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:02,280
Speaker 1: The womb is the sack. What the funk are you

507
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 1: all talking about? And then we looked it up and

508
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:06,360
Speaker 1: there is, in fact a sack that's connected to the

509
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:09,240
Speaker 1: placenta that sort of is what the baby lives in.

510
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:11,960
Speaker 1: And it's true some babies do come out in the sack.

511
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:15,280
Speaker 1: And I think that's where serial killers come from. That's

512
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:21,960
Speaker 1: what the stork is holding onto the baby. Said, so

513
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 1: that's a that's a real fun image. If if you

514
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:29,400
Speaker 1: look up babysack, you're not gonna like that bit in

515
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:34,600
Speaker 1: your head anymore. I'm not gonna look up baby seck

516
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 1: right now, just because of what else might pop up,

517
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 1: but my own dark mode. I might look up baby stead.

518
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 1: You look up babysack, you're going to jail. Playboy, So

519
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 1: one of the more fascinating parts of all of this

520
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 1: that that I didn't realize is that the gravy seems

521
00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:59,960
Speaker 1: to have not been only a function of adding calorie

522
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 1: used to a meal, but it also seems to have

523
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 1: been a way of softening the very thick bread of

524
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:11,080
Speaker 1: this time, because apparently the first biscuits of America, the

525
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 1: first biscuits that were being made at this time, were

526
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 1: much denser and sturdier than the biscuits that we find

527
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 1: in a restaurant today. They were thick, like dumb thick

528
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 1: mm hmmm. So so Popaye is is keeping it like,

529
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 1: oh Gene, Yeah, Popeye's is like, win't we ain't changed

530
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:34,239
Speaker 1: the game once? Yeah, Popeye is taking it back to

531
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:39,040
Speaker 1: the sawmill and like, if this was good enough to

532
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 1: feed the sawmill boys, this is good enough to feed

533
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:45,920
Speaker 1: your black ass mm hmmm mm hmmm. Enjoy our thick biscuits.

534
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:51,920
Speaker 1: So these biscuits that I'm referring to were originally known

535
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:56,200
Speaker 1: as beaten biscuits, right, beaten biscuits, because they got their

536
00:34:56,360 --> 00:35:01,200
Speaker 1: leavening from being vigorously beaten and fall olded. Sometimes it

537
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:03,719
Speaker 1: would take an entire hour just to be able to

538
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:08,960
Speaker 1: beat the dough into something usable to be able to

539
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 1: turn into biscuits. So it required a ship ton of labor.

540
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 1: And you guessed it, Rob, Who do you think was

541
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 1: responsible for doing that super taxing labor? The pills very

542
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 1: dough boy, oh boy, very different colored pills, very dough boy.

543
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:34,960
Speaker 1: They didn't the boy. But it wasn't It wasn't the pills, Mary,

544
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 1: It's it was slaves. Slaves Thias were responsible for this

545
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:45,799
Speaker 1: very physical labor and they were the ones that were

546
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:50,239
Speaker 1: making these beaten biscuits. Now here's where it gets even crazier,

547
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 1: because these beaten biscuits are being made by slaves, than

548
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:57,920
Speaker 1: the Civil War happens. Then the thirteenth Amendment kicks in

549
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:01,640
Speaker 1: and it's no longer reasonable right to keep slaves. Are

550
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:05,839
Speaker 1: very upset about that. And then white people basically say that,

551
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:08,480
Speaker 1: and this is a a real thing that was quoted

552
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:11,680
Speaker 1: from some book that some very smart person wrote about this,

553
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:15,000
Speaker 1: but that basically white people took the stance that it

554
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:19,080
Speaker 1: had come to be viewed as too burdensome to keep

555
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:23,680
Speaker 1: making biscuits. They were like, fuck this, it's it's too

556
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 1: much more. I don't even want to do this ship

557
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 1: because of how sucky the labor was Wow. Yeah, So

558
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 1: then what happened to biscuits? Great questions. So in eighteen

559
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:41,000
Speaker 1: seventy seven, a machine was invented for doing the work

560
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 1: that would have had to been done by black people.

561
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:46,200
Speaker 1: They basically turned they found a cotton gin if you will,

562
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 1: to help leavin this bread. And it turned out that

563
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:53,440
Speaker 1: it actually made And this is again a white person

564
00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:57,880
Speaker 1: talking about their own invention but saying it's saved beaten

565
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:02,040
Speaker 1: biscuits from extinction, but actually made them smoother, prettier, and

566
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:06,440
Speaker 1: more popular than before. I mean, biscuits gotta be good

567
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:09,960
Speaker 1: for to only take like ten years before somebody's like,

568
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 1: we gotta invent to like make this easier, Like we

569
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:19,400
Speaker 1: gotta do something because this is you know, the slaves

570
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:23,840
Speaker 1: are free, they're reconstruction. They in Congress. Now we gotta

571
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:27,399
Speaker 1: do something to get these biscuits back. Pop, My mom

572
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:30,359
Speaker 1: shouldn't be mad at the gravy, she should be mad

573
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:33,359
Speaker 1: at the biscuits. Yeah. I think the biscuits made things

574
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 1: a lot pretty complicated because the gravy really was just

575
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:41,120
Speaker 1: a response to a need that was being presented. I

576
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:44,200
Speaker 1: do love, though, the idea that there was somebody like

577
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:47,680
Speaker 1: you're saying, uh, sitting back and thinking to themselves. You

578
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:50,279
Speaker 1: know what, man, I don't even really miss slavery that much,

579
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:55,719
Speaker 1: but goddamn I missed them biscuits, miss biscuits, man made

580
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:58,360
Speaker 1: good biscuits. I want my biscuits back. And they built

581
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:02,279
Speaker 1: a machine to try to to solve this problem. So

582
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:05,440
Speaker 1: they invent this machine, right, and it it starts to

583
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:08,839
Speaker 1: make me question. It introduces a question in my mind.

584
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:11,320
Speaker 1: And I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, because

585
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:15,560
Speaker 1: to me, the question this whole John Henry machine versus

586
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 1: man thing that's happening where they go. The machine finally

587
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:21,520
Speaker 1: could do the thing that no man up to that

588
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:23,760
Speaker 1: point was able to do. I don't buy that ship.

589
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:27,920
Speaker 1: A part of me starts to believe, rob that maybe

590
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:33,160
Speaker 1: these slaves were intentionally leaving those beaten big biscuits extra thick,

591
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:36,360
Speaker 1: with the hopes that their oppressors might choke to death

592
00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 1: and then they could escape to freedom before they were

593
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:46,279
Speaker 1: supposed to. If you will, oh, and you think that

594
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:52,759
Speaker 1: they will be saved by the white gravy, yes, or

595
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:58,640
Speaker 1: or not saved, but certainly uh kept in chains even longer. No, no, no,

596
00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:01,879
Speaker 1: I'm saying the like the white people were supposed to

597
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:06,279
Speaker 1: choke on the biscuits, but the white gravy came in

598
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:12,640
Speaker 1: and and fuck up the game. Save the oppressive. Yeah, exactly. Damn.

599
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:17,160
Speaker 1: Your mom might be onto something. He's onto something. Yes,

600
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:22,880
Speaker 1: it's devastating. If I was so hungry in the first

601
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:28,240
Speaker 1: half of his podcast, I was gonna like go get

602
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 1: some like I was gonna go to the store and

603
00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:35,640
Speaker 1: get some biscuits and make some biscuits. And now I'm

604
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:39,279
Speaker 1: not that's fair. Now, Now you gotta do the right thing.

605
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 1: I gotta do the right thing. I had so many

606
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:45,520
Speaker 1: cards ahead of me before, Like before you told me

607
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 1: about the history of this bis what's this biscuit machine code?

608
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:54,439
Speaker 1: I don't know. I didn't. I didn't take the care

609
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:59,759
Speaker 1: to look up the biscuit magic biscuits. But apparently I'm

610
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:04,320
Speaker 1: off built a biscuit machine and and we we benefited

611
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 1: from it somehow. One of the things that that I

612
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:10,359
Speaker 1: didn't because I, again I didn't know anything about white

613
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:13,840
Speaker 1: gravy before this. Really I've never I've had it. I

614
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 1: ain't really that big of a fan, but I certainly

615
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:18,319
Speaker 1: didn't grow up on the ship. And one of the

616
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:20,839
Speaker 1: things that that sort of came to my mind, is

617
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:25,000
Speaker 1: what's the difference? Right, Like, why is white gravy such

618
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:27,799
Speaker 1: a big deal? And part of the reason, and this

619
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:30,400
Speaker 1: to me was a really illuminating part of all of

620
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:34,160
Speaker 1: this research, is that the birth of white gravy was

621
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:38,879
Speaker 1: largely a function of poverty. So in order to make

622
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:42,319
Speaker 1: the white gravy, all you needed was the the sort

623
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:47,400
Speaker 1: of drippings from a sausage pan, flour, milk or water like.

624
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:50,720
Speaker 1: It was very basic ingredients that were at that point

625
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:54,919
Speaker 1: easy to come by, especially in the heart of wartimes, right,

626
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:58,319
Speaker 1: And so they created this white gravy, not because it

627
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:01,520
Speaker 1: was the best tasting version of what gravy could be,

628
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:04,319
Speaker 1: but because it was simple, it was functional, it could

629
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:06,960
Speaker 1: last a long time, and it could stretch the ship

630
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 1: out of a meal. And so in a beautiful way,

631
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 1: it sort of feels like a metaphor for the way

632
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:18,920
Speaker 1: that white citizens position themselves in America. Do you know

633
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:24,400
Speaker 1: what I mean? Okay, because it's poverty, but it's like, hey,

634
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:29,840
Speaker 1: we not, We're not they pulling themselves up by the

635
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:35,799
Speaker 1: sausage strap. Yeah, I think I think, yes, if the

636
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:38,319
Speaker 1: sazage straps is is sort of what I'm going for

637
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:42,359
Speaker 1: I think in a way it's them being like, yeo,

638
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:47,160
Speaker 1: we still continue to take pride because now white gravy

639
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:49,400
Speaker 1: is a point of pride in the South right. It

640
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:53,160
Speaker 1: is a thing that white citizens will advocate for and

641
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:56,080
Speaker 1: fight for. I read all these these different comments online

642
00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:58,320
Speaker 1: where people were like, white gravy is it has to

643
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:01,480
Speaker 1: be made this way. It's a it's a Southern staple.

644
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 1: It cannot be you know, ruined or or or treated poorly,

645
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:08,200
Speaker 1: whatever it is. And I think they have learned been

646
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:12,600
Speaker 1: trained to create pride where pride should not exist. That

647
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 1: this should not be a thing that you're celebrating. It

648
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:18,000
Speaker 1: should be a thing that you look back and go, yo,

649
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 1: we were being mistreated by our country. We're sitting here,

650
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:24,680
Speaker 1: and we're sitting here and going this is America white graving.

651
00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:28,440
Speaker 1: And it's like, yeah, America was treating you like ship doc. Yeah.

652
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:31,919
Speaker 1: But not only that, it's also saying like, hey, look

653
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:36,680
Speaker 1: where we came from. We came from this. Meanwhile, you

654
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:43,759
Speaker 1: had slaves making the biscuits they are you are. You

655
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:47,840
Speaker 1: are taking pride in something that you didn't truly create,

656
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:51,080
Speaker 1: and then the thing that you did create was mostly

657
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:55,640
Speaker 1: created because of a limited amount of resources provided to

658
00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:58,239
Speaker 1: you by the thing you take the most pride in.

659
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:02,400
Speaker 1: It's all a sick game that's sort of being, you know,

660
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:04,840
Speaker 1: played on poor white people. And I think the white

661
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:08,440
Speaker 1: gravy is a perfect reflection of that. I didn't know

662
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:12,520
Speaker 1: who's gonna get this deep, yeah, dog around on this podcast.

663
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:15,040
Speaker 1: I didn't know who's gonna get this deep. Man. I

664
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:17,480
Speaker 1: should have known when I signed the release. I've never

665
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:21,439
Speaker 1: signed a release four podcasts before. This is amazing, man.

666
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:25,920
Speaker 1: This is like is Gates type of stuff, but about

667
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:31,839
Speaker 1: Gravey that Nigga Henry Lewis Gates wishes he could talk

668
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:36,440
Speaker 1: about gravy. You can talk about Nazis grandfather all you want, Henry.

669
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:41,120
Speaker 1: We gotta get into the real ship, which is gravy.

670
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:44,400
Speaker 1: This is I I do genuinely believe that that the

671
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:48,759
Speaker 1: white gravy, while polarizing, does feel like this really important

672
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:52,919
Speaker 1: metaphor because and then this is also where it was

673
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:56,080
Speaker 1: a very illuminating moment for me, because I didn't realize

674
00:43:56,120 --> 00:44:00,799
Speaker 1: this that apparently at the time, butter into syrup were

675
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:03,880
Speaker 1: far more difficult to come by in the South, and

676
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:08,040
Speaker 1: and for specifically, you know, poor white people. Butter was

677
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:10,840
Speaker 1: like something you had to really work hard to find.

678
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:14,680
Speaker 1: And syrup was like crazy hard to find, right, And

679
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:17,600
Speaker 1: so I grew up. You know, in my world, we

680
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:21,240
Speaker 1: put jelly and and fucking butter or syrup or whatever

681
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:23,920
Speaker 1: it is on a biscuit. And for these people, they

682
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:28,040
Speaker 1: didn't have that resource, and so white gravy becomes the

683
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:33,040
Speaker 1: other option. I might be converted, man, I might be converted.

684
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:35,880
Speaker 1: I might not ever have white gravy again. I feel

685
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:40,720
Speaker 1: like I feel bad. I feels like crazy. Hey, man,

686
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:44,399
Speaker 1: your mother, your mother, she sat you down, she tried

687
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:47,480
Speaker 1: to talk to you, and something in your head and

688
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:49,960
Speaker 1: you you let that slip pass, and and you need

689
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:52,440
Speaker 1: to apologize there. You need to call her and say,

690
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:55,439
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Mom, I was bugging on this whole white

691
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:58,520
Speaker 1: gravy position. I forgot to mention my mom's a history

692
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:08,080
Speaker 1: and teacher. Uh so, yeah, she kind of knew ahead

693
00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:13,040
Speaker 1: of time already, know she knowing the machines called and everything. Man,

694
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:17,799
Speaker 1: like everybody's listening. Call your mom, man, for real, I

695
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:20,279
Speaker 1: love that you're like. I forgot to mention my mom

696
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:26,680
Speaker 1: specifically studied the biscuit machine. She went she got a

697
00:45:26,719 --> 00:45:39,600
Speaker 1: master's degree in biscuit machine of the thesis was biscuit. Ma, goddamn, Well,

698
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:42,360
Speaker 1: we learned a lot and we're gonna take a break.

699
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:45,279
Speaker 1: We'll be back with more ribs. And my mama told me,

700
00:45:53,360 --> 00:46:16,680
Speaker 1: and we are back. Yeah, we're back here with more

701
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:19,640
Speaker 1: robbyes more. My mama told me. We're still talking about

702
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:24,640
Speaker 1: that devil mix white gravy, the poison that is a

703
00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:27,719
Speaker 1: perfect metaphor for the evil that white people have have

704
00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:32,800
Speaker 1: continuously bought into in this country, in America. Goddammit, Robbed,

705
00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:35,080
Speaker 1: where are you? How are you feeling right now? Where

706
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:38,439
Speaker 1: are you? Where are you with all of this? I mean,

707
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:41,400
Speaker 1: you know, I came into this podcast thinking that I

708
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:44,520
Speaker 1: broke the color line, thinking that I was the Jackie

709
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:49,000
Speaker 1: Robinson of white gravy, And now I know that I

710
00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:52,480
Speaker 1: am a trated I am my uncle Tom, damn, you know.

711
00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:55,720
Speaker 1: And what they were eating in his cabin was biscuits

712
00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:59,560
Speaker 1: and white gray fuck. You know what it's. It's I'll

713
00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:02,200
Speaker 1: say that it's hard to hear. I don't know what

714
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:13,640
Speaker 1: to say to you, so I'll just do this. I

715
00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:16,799
Speaker 1: hope that's at least a little bit of thoughtlas for

716
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:18,839
Speaker 1: you to be able to walk home with. I don't

717
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:22,759
Speaker 1: know this is hard to it's hard to see. I mean,

718
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:24,840
Speaker 1: I am home, but I'm gonna have to walk around

719
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:31,040
Speaker 1: the black It's a lot. Oh man. Okay, if if

720
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:33,680
Speaker 1: you can find the strength, I'd love to play a game.

721
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:37,000
Speaker 1: Let's play a game, Okay, shall we? This is This

722
00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:40,840
Speaker 1: is a fun game. It's a classic game on the show.

723
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:43,640
Speaker 1: It's a really fun game. Let me find my drop.

724
00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:51,200
Speaker 1: It's a game called Homemade Hotep. It's a it's a

725
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:54,080
Speaker 1: fun game where Rob. I'm going to introduce to you

726
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:58,920
Speaker 1: a very real fact out in the world, a objective,

727
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:01,759
Speaker 1: relatively object active fact out in the world. I'm not

728
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:05,040
Speaker 1: gonna go so bold as to say anything subjective anymore,

729
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:08,360
Speaker 1: but a pretty objective fact out in the world. And

730
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:10,680
Speaker 1: what I would love for you to do, Rob, is

731
00:48:10,719 --> 00:48:14,400
Speaker 1: put on your hotep hat and just just hotep the

732
00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:17,120
Speaker 1: ship out of this fact. Really get into the nooks

733
00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:21,319
Speaker 1: and crannies, the secrets, the mischief, all the all the

734
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:25,520
Speaker 1: ship that might be hidden underneath this supposedly real fact.

735
00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:28,400
Speaker 1: Does that make sense? That makes all the sense in

736
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:31,319
Speaker 1: the world. Hell yeah, this is a fun one. I'm

737
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:34,799
Speaker 1: excited to share this one with you. But apparently it

738
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:39,440
Speaker 1: is very true that during a renovation of his final

739
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:45,200
Speaker 1: home in there were apparently a dozen bodies found in

740
00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:50,920
Speaker 1: Benjamin Franklin's basement. That Benjamin Franklin, uh man, who's on

741
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:54,040
Speaker 1: a hundred dollar bill. A lot of people mistake him

742
00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:56,800
Speaker 1: for having been a president of the United States. He wasn't.

743
00:48:56,840 --> 00:49:00,640
Speaker 1: He just is on our money sometimes apparently had a

744
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:07,239
Speaker 1: dozen bodies hidden in his basement. Robbed go crazy, Okay,

745
00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:14,360
Speaker 1: Benjamin Franklin and hundreds of bodies? Does does a dozen

746
00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:19,560
Speaker 1: bodies in this basement? Okay? That I mean that? You know,

747
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:22,680
Speaker 1: I feel like there's an easy route you could already

748
00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:27,239
Speaker 1: go of who of who those people are? One thing

749
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:32,880
Speaker 1: you gotta know about Benjamin Franklin is that. See Benjamin

750
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:40,239
Speaker 1: Franklin started a newspaper right he was a child, and

751
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:44,480
Speaker 1: the newspaper was anti British. Him and his family had

752
00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:48,160
Speaker 1: to Fleet Town, go to another town he started another newspaper.

753
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:53,879
Speaker 1: So he was an entrepreneur, just like did he when

754
00:49:53,920 --> 00:50:00,879
Speaker 1: he was he was an entrepreneur. He had to go

755
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:05,320
Speaker 1: to Howard, back to Harlem. Did he made all about

756
00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:13,280
Speaker 1: the Benjamin? Oh, where's total? Where's where's loon? Where's shine?

757
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:16,840
Speaker 1: Did he had to climb on a lot of of

758
00:50:16,840 --> 00:50:20,240
Speaker 1: of black people. In order to get to prominent. Whoa

759
00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:25,560
Speaker 1: Benjamin Franklin had to do the same. He had a loon,

760
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:28,960
Speaker 1: he had a shine, he had a total, he had

761
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:37,359
Speaker 1: a faith. He had a baby that was bad. So

762
00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:42,120
Speaker 1: so you're telling me that in essence, Benjamin Franklin has

763
00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:46,799
Speaker 1: has his bab's buddy hiding in the basement, locked up

764
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:48,919
Speaker 1: in the basement that he had to bury in order

765
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:53,120
Speaker 1: to meet his greater success. He had to he had

766
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:56,640
Speaker 1: to close down things from time to time. He had

767
00:50:56,680 --> 00:50:59,520
Speaker 1: a diadline, He had a chapel. He had a friend,

768
00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:01,960
Speaker 1: he had a nest, he had a bands, he had

769
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:04,520
Speaker 1: a Sarah, he had a Sarah's husband. You know what

770
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:09,120
Speaker 1: I'm saying. He was making a band. Benjamin Franklin was

771
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:13,360
Speaker 1: making a band and he had to shut it down,

772
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:16,840
Speaker 1: and that meant locking the door, and you know, nobody

773
00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:22,440
Speaker 1: could get out. Nobody could get out. Damn. This is

774
00:51:22,440 --> 00:51:24,839
Speaker 1: because they didn't want to do the challenges. They didn't

775
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:29,120
Speaker 1: want to buckle his shoes. They didn't want to they

776
00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:33,240
Speaker 1: didn't want to walk, you know, walk to the peach tree.

777
00:51:33,440 --> 00:51:35,839
Speaker 1: They didn't want to pick up the cheesecake with the

778
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:39,640
Speaker 1: with the kite and the key on it. M hmmmm,

779
00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:42,480
Speaker 1: walk outside with this kite in this key if you

780
00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:45,879
Speaker 1: want to be in the Benjamin Franklin band. Yeah, when

781
00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:50,200
Speaker 1: was the Benjamin frank around seventeen hundreds? Yeah that the

782
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:54,080
Speaker 1: seventeen hundreds of DeLine didn't want to do that. I

783
00:51:58,080 --> 00:52:03,799
Speaker 1: love that. God damn it. That's cool. Motherfucking books. That

784
00:52:03,880 --> 00:52:06,399
Speaker 1: was beautiful. I I think I think you nailed it.

785
00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:09,000
Speaker 1: You know what I love about it is that it

786
00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:13,960
Speaker 1: reminds us that the same games continue to be played

787
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:17,400
Speaker 1: to this day. Maybe not an insane you know, Benjamin

788
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:20,200
Speaker 1: Franklin apparently could get away with murder in a way

789
00:52:20,239 --> 00:52:22,960
Speaker 1: that you and I and maybe even did he cannot

790
00:52:23,040 --> 00:52:26,319
Speaker 1: do today, But did he can get away with a

791
00:52:26,400 --> 00:52:29,320
Speaker 1: type of murderer of people's career, a type of stepping

792
00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:31,359
Speaker 1: on the shoulders of the people in front of him.

793
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:34,520
Speaker 1: And that's all capitalism is, to some extent, is we're

794
00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:37,000
Speaker 1: all just figuring out a way to take advantage of

795
00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:41,760
Speaker 1: a person for the sake of our own successes and games.

796
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:45,280
Speaker 1: That's deep, man, You really spit some bars today, Rob.

797
00:52:45,600 --> 00:52:47,360
Speaker 1: I think we did it. I think I think we

798
00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:50,480
Speaker 1: nailed the whole episode. Could you tell the people at

799
00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:52,800
Speaker 1: home where they can find you and what cool stuff

800
00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:55,759
Speaker 1: you have going on. Sure, um, you can find me

801
00:52:55,800 --> 00:53:00,600
Speaker 1: on Instagram at Rob Hayes r O b HS. You

802
00:53:00,640 --> 00:53:03,839
Speaker 1: can find me on Twitter at Robert is the Man.

803
00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:09,520
Speaker 1: I have an album called Hezipedia. It's on all streaming platforms.

804
00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:14,399
Speaker 1: I'm on Sneak This, the world's only sketch show all

805
00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:18,960
Speaker 1: about sneaker culture on VR kicks. And I'm on Sherman Showcase,

806
00:53:19,080 --> 00:53:22,319
Speaker 1: which you can find our old episodes on Hulu and

807
00:53:22,560 --> 00:53:26,040
Speaker 1: season two coming soon on AMC and I f C.

808
00:53:26,719 --> 00:53:30,719
Speaker 1: Hell yeah, please follow Rob. Please funk with sneake This.

809
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:34,600
Speaker 1: It's very funny and silly. I already told you in person.

810
00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:38,120
Speaker 1: I I've enjoyed many episodes of it. It's great. And

811
00:53:38,160 --> 00:53:41,560
Speaker 1: as always, you can follow me at Lengstein Kerman and

812
00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:45,360
Speaker 1: you can please subscribe to the podcast and leave comments

813
00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:47,959
Speaker 1: and send us drops and ideas to my mama pot

814
00:53:48,040 --> 00:53:51,160
Speaker 1: at gmail dot com. And if you live in Los Angeles,

815
00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:54,880
Speaker 1: we're in the Los Angeles, the greater metropolitan Los Angeles area.

816
00:53:55,200 --> 00:53:57,480
Speaker 1: I'd love for you to come to to my monthly

817
00:53:57,560 --> 00:54:01,840
Speaker 1: show that happens at a place called the Hotel Cafe

818
00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:05,040
Speaker 1: it's in West Hollywood. It's very nice and it's a

819
00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:07,440
Speaker 1: fun monthly show. And when our next one will be December,

820
00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:10,520
Speaker 1: and you should come. I would love to see your faces.

821
00:54:10,640 --> 00:54:14,080
Speaker 1: Please don't disappoint me. I'll beat you. Okay, that's it

822
00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:16,960
Speaker 1: by Bitch Peace. I went to the last one is

823
00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:28,840
Speaker 1: five my Crown chips in your mails. Qualibars are racist,

824
00:54:31,480 --> 00:54:38,960
Speaker 1: the hosting money very stuff. I can't tell me.