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Speaker 1: You know, at the end of Lap thirty one, we've

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Speaker 1: talked a little bit about political burnout, but I think

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Speaker 1: we were just really playing it a little too cute.

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Speaker 1: I think it's time to call a spade a spade.

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Speaker 1: I don't know about you, but I'm dropping the cloak

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Speaker 1: of shame and I'm here to say your girl is

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Speaker 1: burnt out.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I'm tired. I'm tired. I'm constantly tired. I feel

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Speaker 2: like I go to sleep tired, and I wake up tired,

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Speaker 2: and all day I'm just tired. And the news doesn't

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Speaker 2: help being quarantined and working from home for some folks

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Speaker 2: not working from home right because they lost their jobs, right.

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Speaker 1: And then the pressure just to level up during quarantine.

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Speaker 2: I saw that meme at the beginning of quarantine where

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Speaker 2: it was like, Okay, that business idea you had, now

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Speaker 2: you got the time to do it. I was like,

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Speaker 2: this is a lot of pressure.

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Speaker 1: I've heard you described this as a life avalanche. Everything's

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Speaker 1: just piling up.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you feel like you have so many balls in

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Speaker 2: the air and then they all just come crashing down

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Speaker 2: at some point.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's time to talk about burnout. It's impacting us

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Speaker 1: in so many different ways, let's get into it. I'm

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Speaker 1: TT and I'm Zachiah and from Spotify. This is Dope Labs.

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Speaker 2: Let's really get into all the different types of burnout

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Speaker 2: that we have been experiencing just in this year. I

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Speaker 2: don't know if it's our generation or what, but it's

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Speaker 2: just like every free moment you have, you should be

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Speaker 2: dedicating it to some type of grind and you can

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Speaker 2: sleep when you're dead. And I'm just like, oh, I

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Speaker 2: feel like this is gonna kill me too soon.

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Speaker 1: Well that just means that this episode couldn't have come

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Speaker 1: at a better time.

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Speaker 2: In this lab, we're talking all of about burnout.

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Speaker 1: So let's get into the recitation. What do we know?

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Speaker 1: We know burnout is not unique to me and you. No,

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Speaker 1: I'm having lots of conversations. I see everybody else talking

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Speaker 1: about it. People are exhausted.

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Speaker 2: Especially now. I think since everybody at home and quarantining

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Speaker 2: and social distancing, I feel like a lot of people

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Speaker 2: have been talking about it more because for the folks

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Speaker 2: that are at home and working, they're like, okay, I

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Speaker 2: am living at work now, and then folks that have kids.

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Speaker 2: I don't know how y'all are doing it. I really don't.

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Speaker 1: I also feel like there are levels to burn out,

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Speaker 1: you know. Sometimes I get burned out on a specific topic.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes I get burned out on a whole platform. Like

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Speaker 1: I'm done with Instagram, right, I'm just tired of it.

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Speaker 2: Folks will be like, oh, I'm taking a break from Instagram.

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Speaker 2: I'm tired of seeing people only posting like the best

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Speaker 2: part of themselves and it's making me feel bad about myself.

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Speaker 2: So they get burnt out on Instagram.

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Speaker 1: Social media burnout, yeah, or like some people be.

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Speaker 2: Like, oh, I'm not gonna be I'm not going to

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Speaker 2: watch the news anymore.

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Speaker 1: The news. Burnout is real.

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Speaker 2: Burnout is just the big umbrella. Where do you feel

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Speaker 2: it the most?

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Speaker 1: C Hm. I feel it with work, just because all

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Speaker 1: the uncertainty and the role I have. I face a

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Speaker 1: lot of people right so income and grad students. I

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Speaker 1: don't know what's happening. I want to be able to

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Speaker 1: give them complete information. So then I feel almost like

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Speaker 1: in limbo, like where I have all these tasks, these

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Speaker 1: things I need to get done, but I don't have

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Speaker 1: all the information I need, and these people are waiting

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Speaker 1: on me, and these other people are expecting to hear

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Speaker 1: from me. And it feels like a lot to manage

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Speaker 1: at the same time, and I don't want to let

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Speaker 1: anybody down, but I also don't want to give people

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Speaker 1: incorrect information, you know, And so it puts me in

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Speaker 1: this really tricky position.

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Speaker 2: If you're listening on the Spotify app, you have the

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Speaker 2: opportunity to tell us exactly how you're feeling and what

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Speaker 2: you're burning out on. On our episode page. There's a

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Speaker 2: poll that you can take right now, and we want

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Speaker 2: to hear what you're burning out on. What do we

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Speaker 2: want to know?

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Speaker 1: What is burnout? I know these feelings, but like, what

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Speaker 1: is it?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Is this something that a doctor can say, I'm

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Speaker 2: going to diagnose you with burnout? Like what are the

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Speaker 2: symptoms of it? And what are the causes of it?

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Speaker 1: And you know, you raised a really good point you said,

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Speaker 1: is this something that's just specific to our generation? My

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Speaker 1: grandma was never burned out, or at least she never

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Speaker 1: said it. So what happened? Am I just built weak?

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Speaker 2: I feel like we got a lot more responsibility now.

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Speaker 2: I feel like back then you could just you know,

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Speaker 2: live off the land, but now you got to do

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Speaker 2: all this extra stuff and everybody's expecting you to be,

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Speaker 2: you know, president of the United States and also own

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Speaker 2: twelve businesses and make sure your hair look good. And

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Speaker 2: you got that crooked tooth, don't forget to fix that.

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Speaker 2: I don't got enough time or space or energy to

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Speaker 2: do it all.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know how you spent your summers. But

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Speaker 1: living off the land is hard. Have you ever tried

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Speaker 1: to make souer kraut from thirty heads of cabbage and

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Speaker 1: one hoe just chopping? It's hard.

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Speaker 2: My friend has done it all. She's done it all.

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Speaker 1: You just don't want to be a pieeer woman.

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Speaker 2: I'm burnt out.

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Speaker 1: Let's jump into the dissection.

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Speaker 2: Our guest for today's lab is doctor Ann Helen Peterson.

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Speaker 3: My name is Ann Helen Peterson. I have my PhD

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Speaker 3: and Media studies from the University of Texas and my

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Speaker 3: book is called Can't Even How Millennials Became the Burnout Generation.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Peterson's book takes a deep dive into understanding the

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Speaker 1: origins and signs of burnout and connecting it to American

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Speaker 1: capitalism and parenting.

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Speaker 2: And our first question was how does she define burnout?

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Speaker 1: You hit the wall.

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Speaker 3: You work so hard for so long, but instead of

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Speaker 3: collapsing and stopping what you're doing, you scale the.

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Speaker 1: Wall, and then you keep going some more.

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Speaker 3: You just keep going with that low grade exhaustion as

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Speaker 3: the background to every component of your life.

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Speaker 2: So it's similar to hitting the wall while you're running

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Speaker 2: a marathon and your body basically like shuts down and

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Speaker 2: they'll be running and then all of a sudden, their

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Speaker 2: legs it's like their legs don't work, and they'll hit

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Speaker 2: the ground, but then they'll still be trying to run,

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Speaker 2: and every time they try and stand up, they just

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Speaker 2: fall back down.

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Speaker 1: So basically there's zombies and we are too. Yes, So

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Speaker 1: our next question is what causes burnout.

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Speaker 3: The foundation of our current form of burnout is procarity.

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Speaker 2: Precarity is defined as the state of having insecure employment

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Speaker 2: or income.

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Speaker 3: And that means pricarity in your standing in americanciety, economic procarity,

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Speaker 3: social precarity, just constantly being worried in many different capacities

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Speaker 3: about your safety, your financial safety, and what's going to

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Speaker 3: happen with your kids, all these sorts of things, and

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Speaker 3: we resort to all sorts of coping mechanisms and behaviors

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Speaker 3: in order to counteract that lack of safety net.

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Speaker 1: This is realer than ever as a black woman in America,

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Speaker 1: existing during this time where so many people are without homes,

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Speaker 1: without jobs, in our current political climate.

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Speaker 2: So many unknowns that can cause a lot of stress.

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Speaker 1: And a little stress here and there. That's fine, But

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Speaker 1: the thing about burnout is that it feels like chronic stress.

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Speaker 1: It just keeps going on and on.

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Speaker 2: Right, You're building up a big burnout house with all

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Speaker 2: these stress bricks, so percarity, that feeling of insecurity is

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Speaker 2: what triggers the behaviors that lead to burnout.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Peterson told us that surveillance at work can be

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Speaker 1: another thing that triggers burnout. This can be anything from

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Speaker 1: regular check ins to documentation of daily activities, to cameras

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Speaker 1: in the workplace. We're supposed to have all these tools,

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Speaker 1: like digital things to help us stay on task and

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Speaker 1: to keep track, but sometimes those things almost feel like surveillance,

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Speaker 1: like you're being monitored and tracked as you do your work.

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Speaker 1: If your boss is regularly checking in wanting you to

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Speaker 1: document your daily activities, micro managing, you keep your camera

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Speaker 1: on on zoom so I can see you all day working.

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Speaker 2: No way, I got PJS on.

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Speaker 1: Not if you work with me, I want everybody to

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Speaker 1: be relaxed. Don't turn that camera on. I don't need

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Speaker 1: to see it.

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Speaker 3: There are these modes of surveillance that are supposed to

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Speaker 3: be there in order to incentivize productivity or I don't know,

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Speaker 3: like there's just this underlying thesis to them that workers

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Speaker 3: are lazy and we'll always do bad things.

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Speaker 2: Doctor Peterson told us about studies that show a lower

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Speaker 2: quality of work from people who are working under surveillance.

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Speaker 2: So it's actually doing the opposite of what it's meant

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Speaker 2: to do in the first place. And she says that

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Speaker 2: has a lot to do with this internalized anxiety about

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Speaker 2: being watched.

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Speaker 1: So when you take all these things together, the insecurity,

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Speaker 1: the surveillance, all of this just sets the stage for burnout.

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Speaker 1: And we really want to know, what are some indicators

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Speaker 1: that you might be burned out burnout behaviors? What are they?

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Speaker 3: So one of the biggest ones, and our parents adopted

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Speaker 3: this as well in the seventies and eighties, is you

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Speaker 3: just work more. Right, if you work harder, if you

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Speaker 3: work longer hours, if you try to prove yourself and capacity,

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Speaker 3: then maybe you'll find that stability. But when that stability

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Speaker 3: is elusive and you just keep working. You know, that's burnout.

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Speaker 2: Another burnout behavior might be this desire to totally check out.

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Speaker 2: Maybe it's Love Island or Twitter or Instagram or TikTok

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Speaker 2: or in doctor Peterson's case, I.

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Speaker 3: Got really into the super dumb Candy Crush style game,

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Speaker 3: and I would play it like at all the points

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Speaker 3: when I would rather be like, oh, I should go

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Speaker 3: take a walk, or I should, you know, just cook something,

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Speaker 3: or I should read a book like this fiction book

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Speaker 3: that has been on my nightstand that I really want

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Speaker 3: to read, and be.

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Speaker 1: Like, no, I really needed to play my game.

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Speaker 3: I found myself going back to it because I was

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Speaker 3: craving that sort of numb broad space.

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Speaker 1: I think we all do that. My friend has her

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Speaker 1: own What's your game? TT tell the world.

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Speaker 2: She's trying to out me and embarrass me. But I

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Speaker 2: stand by this game. I've been playing playing it for

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Speaker 2: very many years, and it is called Smurf Village.

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Speaker 1: My friend has been playing Smurfs since and I.

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Speaker 2: Love them very much. They work very hard, and I

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Speaker 2: work very hard as well to build these different villages

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Speaker 2: all over and even on different planets. You know, it

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Speaker 2: gets like that. So now that you tell the Folks,

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Speaker 2: which you've been playing since grad school.

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Speaker 1: I've been playing Township, which is like this farm game

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Speaker 1: where you plant crops, you have factories, you you know,

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Speaker 1: feed your cows. The cows make milk, You collect the milk,

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Speaker 1: You take the milk to the dairy factory. You make cheese,

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Speaker 1: You use the cheese that you're also using to make

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Speaker 1: cheeseburgers over here in the fast food restaurant, and then

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Speaker 1: you sell those things. Right, you're doing all this stuff.

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Speaker 2: I didn't even recognize that as burnout, and I thought

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Speaker 2: I was just bored and needed something else to do.

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Speaker 1: I didn't either until we talked to doctor Peterson, and

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Speaker 1: it was clear as day. When I'm the most stressed,

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Speaker 1: when I have the most things on my plate and

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Speaker 1: I feel overwhelmed, Smurf Village cows, I'm here to milk you.

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Speaker 3: But I think the big thing about it for me

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Speaker 3: was instead of getting mad at myself, I was just like,

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Speaker 3: I see this, I see what my body in my

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Speaker 3: mind is asking for, and how can I start to

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Speaker 3: slowly change some things so that I don't need this

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Speaker 3: game anymore?

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Speaker 2: But the thing is playing Angry Bird or Smurf Village

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Speaker 2: for an hour might help you escape, but it's not

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Speaker 2: necessarily relaxing. It's just throwing a blanket over the atomic bomb.

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Speaker 2: Doctor Peterson says. Instead of going after that numb feeling,

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Speaker 2: what might be more helpful in decreasing burnout is cultivating

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Speaker 2: a new hobby.

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Speaker 3: What a real hobby can do is give you's that

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Speaker 3: mindless space. Right. It can be something that you are

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Speaker 3: dedicated for, that you are not optimizing for anyone else,

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Speaker 3: but that you are just like out there doing the weeding,

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Speaker 3: you know, depending on whatever your hobby is. But a

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Speaker 3: lot of us have failed or lost that capacity to

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Speaker 3: seek that space in hobbies.

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Speaker 2: My recent hobby has been gardening, and if you go

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Speaker 2: on our Instagram, you can see me and my friend

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Speaker 2: Zakia when she came over to my house masked of course,

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Speaker 2: and we did some gardening in my yard. It didn't

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Speaker 2: go well. It went actually it went very well, but

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Speaker 2: there were parts where I didn't know what I was

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Speaker 2: doing and I almost hurt myself.

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Speaker 1: But you made it out alive. Riding my bike. That's

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Speaker 1: my hobby. I'm out here, add me on Strava. I

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Speaker 1: love it.

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Speaker 2: My friend be hitting it.

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Speaker 1: It's so free.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's great. To get outside, get some fresh air,

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Speaker 2: and do some things that you know aren't related to

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Speaker 2: work that just make you happy.

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Speaker 1: But sometimes I feel guilty about having these hobbies.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, sometimes when I'm doing stuff like that, I feel

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Speaker 2: like you should be working, or you should be you know,

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Speaker 2: doing something else. You should be reading the Wall Street

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Speaker 2: Journal or the dictionary, learning some new words.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, ah, right, how did we get to this point?

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Speaker 1: We asked doctor Peterson about the history of burnout and

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Speaker 1: how we as a society got here.

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Speaker 3: So, a lot of millennials, grandparents, maybe great grandparents, the

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Speaker 3: people who came out of World War Two, they enjoyed

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Speaker 3: this brief period that's sometimes referred to as like the

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Speaker 3: Golden Age of American capitalism, where a lot of people

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Speaker 3: working class people were able to join the middle class.

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Speaker 3: And then that starts to fade away. There's a series

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Speaker 3: of like mini recessions in the seventies and eighties, and

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Speaker 3: these people who had grown up in this Golden Age

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Speaker 3: of American capitalism they turn into adults and they enter

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Speaker 3: the workplace and they're like, well, I have to either

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Speaker 3: finally reach the middle class if my parents hadn't done that,

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Speaker 3: or sustain my place in the middle class. And I'm

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Speaker 3: so desperate for that that I'm going to start working

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Speaker 3: all the time, and I'm going to try to instill

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Speaker 3: in my kids this attitude that they need to work

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Speaker 3: all the time.

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Speaker 2: So this is our parents' fault and our granny's and

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Speaker 2: grandpa fault.

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Speaker 1: I don't know that my family was middle class coming

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Speaker 1: out of World War Two, But I also don't feel

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Speaker 1: like I had this attitude that we had to work

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Speaker 1: all the time. Do you feel like you your parents?

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Speaker 2: And still my parents worked a lot, Like my mom

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Speaker 2: had two jobs. My dad he worked a lot. He

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Speaker 2: had one job, but he worked a lot. I don't

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Speaker 2: know if they ever explicitly said you have to work hard.

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Speaker 2: I think it was just like leading by example.

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Speaker 1: I think working hard was value. But it seemed like

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Speaker 1: our parents worked hard. But they also seemed like they

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Speaker 1: worked hard and it was effortless, like they worked hard.

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Speaker 1: And every weekend we went to my grandma's house, we

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Speaker 1: drove a long way and we did like I'm tired,

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Speaker 1: aren't you tired? When I look back at it, I'm like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: how are you going to work? And then talking to me.

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Speaker 2: Right after my age, my mother pretty much had three kids,

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Speaker 2: I couldn't imagine just having my little chihuahuah Daisy is

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Speaker 2: stressing me out. And so I guess now present day,

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Speaker 2: we're using them as our models for what we should

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Speaker 2: be doing, and that means to run ourselves ragged.

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Speaker 3: Slowly over the course of our lifetimes. In the eighties

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Speaker 3: and nineties transformed childhood into something that used to be

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Speaker 3: like a space for play and imagination and personality formation

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Speaker 3: into for a lot of people, one long series of

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Speaker 3: resume building activities. And that can be really really hard

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Speaker 3: when you just think of yourself as a resume instead

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Speaker 3: of like as a person with a soul and a

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Speaker 3: heart and all those things.

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Speaker 1: Then you get these eighties babies and these parents who

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Speaker 1: grew up with like more economic mobility. I mean, we

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Speaker 1: see it.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 1: Parents are like, once you graduate from college, you should

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Speaker 1: have a job, and I'm like, that's not how anymore.

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Speaker 1: I know, plenty of people with degrees and degrees is

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Speaker 1: still no job.

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Speaker 2: Right or lots of degrees, all the degrees still can't

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Speaker 2: get a job.

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Speaker 1: Or these jobs that don't value the work that they're doing.

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Speaker 1: And so I think some of this is around what

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Speaker 1: the economy and what the workforce looked like for our parents' generations,

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Speaker 1: and then they project those expectations on you and you're like, nah.

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Speaker 3: There is this particular millennial experience that is represented as universal,

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Speaker 3: and there are so many different ways to be a millennial,

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Speaker 3: and just because burnout is kind of the unifying experience,

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Speaker 3: there are different ways that they came to that point,

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Speaker 3: and a lot of it has to do with who

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Speaker 3: your parents were and how they decided to raise you,

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Speaker 3: but also stuff like urban and rural backgrounds, like are

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Speaker 3: you a first generation immigrant? Like all sorts of stuff.

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Speaker 2: So the millennial generation goes from people being born in

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Speaker 2: nineteen eighty one to people born in nineteen ninety six.

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Speaker 2: I was born in nineteen eighty seven. I don't have

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Speaker 2: nothing in common with something somebody that was born in

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Speaker 2: nineteen ninety six.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we laugh and joke about our differences and

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Speaker 1: it's only two years.

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Speaker 2: Tt exactly because it's like we grew up in two

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Speaker 2: different states. We have parents that were in different fields,

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Speaker 2: like we had different interests, Like my millennial and your

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Speaker 2: millennial are not the same. So the things that may

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Speaker 2: stress me out and cause me to burn out later

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Speaker 2: be the same for you or you know, not even

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Speaker 2: from maybe the same times, the same people in the

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Speaker 2: same house, like even your siblings, like just your birth

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Speaker 2: order may change things, your relationship with your parents may

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Speaker 2: change things, you know.

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Speaker 1: And I think what we forget is layering these identities

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Speaker 1: right and how those burnouts can stack up.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, there's so much nuance when it comes to burnout.

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Speaker 1: Let's take a break and then we're going to talk

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Speaker 1: about specific industries and types of jobs that are most

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Speaker 1: at risk for burning out. We're back. So we've already

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Speaker 1: talked about the origins of burnout and how to recognize

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Speaker 1: it when it's happening. We ask doctor and Helen Peterson

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Speaker 1: if there are any particular industries that are especially vulnerable

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Speaker 1: to work or burn and out, and it came as

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Speaker 1: no surprise that academia and higher education are at the

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Speaker 1: top of the list.

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Speaker 3: There's just so many different ways that the precarity of

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Speaker 3: academia right now is coming to bear on people. And

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Speaker 3: I think that some people at this point in their lives,

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Speaker 3: in their mid late thirties, are like, I can't do

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Speaker 3: this for the rest of my life.

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Speaker 2: That's such a good point. And even within higher education

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Speaker 2: there is nuance in there and the types of burnout

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Speaker 2: that a person can experience, Like if you're talking about

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Speaker 2: a faculty member, professor, the burnout that they may experience

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Speaker 2: is going to be very different from a student who

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Speaker 2: has multiple classes and things like that, right.

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Speaker 1: And they may not know are they still having classes,

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Speaker 1: what do they do about tuition? All those things lead

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Speaker 1: to that same kind of insecurity.

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Speaker 2: And like we said earlier, insecurity is a trigger of burnout,

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Speaker 2: and that insecurity can take many forms, including an inconsistent schedule.

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Speaker 3: I cite a lot of research from work that's been

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Speaker 3: done on retail workers and how things like lack of

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Speaker 3: an advanced schedule can lead to so many different types

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Speaker 3: of burn on. Part of that is just like if

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Speaker 3: you think about your life and you have no ability

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Speaker 3: to schedule it, Like psychologically that's hard, but it also

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Speaker 3: makes everything else in your life hard, like scheduling childcare

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Speaker 3: when you don't get your schedule until a week in advance.

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Speaker 1: This really makes me think about the gig economy, Like

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Speaker 1: this idea of just ditching all these jobs together to

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Speaker 1: create enough income to live.

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Speaker 2: The amount of money that they're making per month can

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Speaker 2: vary from month to month. That can be very stressful.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and even just when the work has to be

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Speaker 1: done right. It's different if you know you have a

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Speaker 1: nine to five every day and you're blocking that nine

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Speaker 1: to five off. Having that schedule consistently can be useful.

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Speaker 1: But if you don't have a schedule and you're just

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Speaker 1: at somebody else's whim and so you just don't have

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Speaker 1: any ability to really plan what your days are going

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Speaker 1: to look like, and that can wear you down.

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Speaker 3: How can you like try to have a steady social

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Speaker 3: life where you can cultivate meaningful relationships or hobbies when, again,

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Speaker 3: you don't have a steady schedule.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Peterson says that industries that are super specialized can

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Speaker 1: also be a risk.

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Speaker 3: What I was really surprised where there's a lot of

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Speaker 3: burnout is zookeeping. There's a great academic paper on this

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Speaker 3: that zookeepers, like a lot of other professions that attract

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Speaker 3: people who are they can't think of themselves as doing

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Speaker 3: anything else, right, A zookeeper really really really wants to

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Speaker 3: be a zookeeper, and a lot of academics show that

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Speaker 3: as well. But you know, doctors, some librarians, teachers this

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Speaker 3: sort of thing, and because it is such a desirable job.

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Speaker 3: In a lot of ways, their passion can be exploited

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Speaker 3: and means that there are few positions, and those positions

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Speaker 3: oftentimes are not that well paid.

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Speaker 1: But they stay with the.

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Speaker 3: Job even as they get more and more exploited and

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Speaker 3: have less and less stability, because it is a calling.

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Speaker 3: It's something that they feel like they have to do.

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Speaker 1: This felt like what we saw in Tiger King.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, absolutely, Joe exotic or knows he loved those

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Speaker 2: animals and he was very broke.

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Speaker 1: And so was you remember that other guy that they

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Speaker 1: showed and he was training those young women up. They

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Speaker 1: were definitely being exploited. Doc Antl Okay, doc Antl was

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Speaker 1: doing the same thing, exploiting those folks. That woman was

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Speaker 1: saying she wasn't even getting paid. They had to work

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Speaker 1: all these long, crazy hours, and it was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: it's because you're the only person. You're passionate, You're the

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Speaker 1: only person that can save these tigers. That's wild.

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Speaker 2: And I mean we see that with our teachers right now.

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Speaker 2: And even like we're always saying teachers aren't getting paid enough,

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Speaker 2: but they still continue to not be paid enough, even

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Speaker 2: though they deserve to be paid more. And teachers are

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Speaker 2: usually nine times out of ten, people who are very

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Speaker 2: dedicated to their students and they can't see themselves as

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Speaker 2: anything else. Like most teachers, they stay teachers twenty thirty

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Speaker 2: forty years. Yeah, and they continued to take this low

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Speaker 2: pay because they're being you know, exploited for their the

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Speaker 2: love of their work.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Peterson also says there's another group that we might

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Speaker 1: not be thinking about, and that's parents.

440
00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:07,040
Speaker 3: You know, the thing that I keep coming back to,

441
00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:08,639
Speaker 3: and I'm not a parent myself, And part of the

442
00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:12,000
Speaker 3: book is about why. But is there are these stats

443
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:14,359
Speaker 3: at looking at how much labor women are putting in

444
00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:18,359
Speaker 3: in the home and how since women went back to

445
00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:22,159
Speaker 3: like went en mass into the workplace in the nineteen

446
00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:25,520
Speaker 3: sixties and seventies, the amount of work that women do

447
00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:27,080
Speaker 3: in the home, so the amount of work that they

448
00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:28,840
Speaker 3: do in the home and also taking care of children,

449
00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:33,000
Speaker 3: supervising children, instead of going down as you would expect,

450
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:37,439
Speaker 3: it has actually gone up. And that I think is

451
00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:40,000
Speaker 3: in particular, is why a lot of women who are

452
00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:44,560
Speaker 3: in partnerships or women who are parents in particular are

453
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:47,639
Speaker 3: feeling exhaustion so acutely.

454
00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:52,800
Speaker 1: Because of gender inequality. There is a different load that

455
00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:54,760
Speaker 1: women bear in the household when it comes to this

456
00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:57,640
Speaker 1: kind of stuff, and it means that they are unable

457
00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:00,919
Speaker 1: to participate in the workforce at the same levels. We

458
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:03,200
Speaker 1: have some additional information about that in the show notes

459
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:05,840
Speaker 1: thirty nine percent of the workforce is women, but of

460
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:09,680
Speaker 1: people that have lost jobs after the coronavirus, fifty four

461
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:10,600
Speaker 1: percent are women.

462
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:14,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, being a woman, they expect so much more of

463
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:17,520
Speaker 2: you as a person, like you need to be able

464
00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:19,720
Speaker 2: to work and then also take care of your family.

465
00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:21,840
Speaker 2: But then they also hold you back within the workforce

466
00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:24,720
Speaker 2: because you are a woman, Like it doesn't make sense

467
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:27,080
Speaker 2: at all. Another group of people that we need to

468
00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:29,560
Speaker 2: consider are folks that are lower income.

469
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:32,000
Speaker 3: When you don't have money to throw out a problem

470
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:36,000
Speaker 3: in this society, it just compounds even more so when

471
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:38,560
Speaker 3: you're so tired from working all the time. Do you

472
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:41,879
Speaker 3: want to go to the store make a meal with

473
00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:44,800
Speaker 3: fresh vegetables that takes a long time and that maybe

474
00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:47,720
Speaker 3: your kids won't eat, or do you want to take

475
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:50,280
Speaker 3: five minutes, go through that drive through and get something

476
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:51,960
Speaker 3: right away that you know that your kids are going

477
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:55,040
Speaker 3: to eat. And I think we oftentimes judge those decisions

478
00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:57,360
Speaker 3: as like bad decisions when what they are is they're

479
00:23:57,400 --> 00:23:59,280
Speaker 3: exhausted decisions.

480
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:00,880
Speaker 1: Or even under resource decisions.

481
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:05,080
Speaker 2: Exactly you are expensive it is to get fresh fruits

482
00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:09,280
Speaker 2: and vegetables and all the nutritious stuff. Our society isn't

483
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:11,800
Speaker 2: set up for low income people to have good nutrition.

484
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:17,199
Speaker 1: And don't even get us started on the things that

485
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:19,679
Speaker 1: are in place if you need help getting food, and

486
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:23,840
Speaker 1: how it actually limits you from really high nutritional value foods. Right,

487
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:25,919
Speaker 1: And that's actually the topic of our next lab. We

488
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:28,680
Speaker 1: are talking all about food systems, and we actually want

489
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:31,120
Speaker 1: to hear from you. What did you see missing from

490
00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:33,800
Speaker 1: your food system when the pandemic hit? Call us at

491
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:36,800
Speaker 1: two zero two five six seven seven zero two eight

492
00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:39,560
Speaker 1: and leave a message to let us know. So, when

493
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:41,800
Speaker 1: you consider all this stuff, all these different ways you

494
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,040
Speaker 1: can be burned out? What do you do when you

495
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:44,800
Speaker 1: are burned out?

496
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 2: How do you doubt those flames?

497
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:48,920
Speaker 3: Now? I try to resist in the book giving any

498
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,320
Speaker 3: sort of like list of things that you can do,

499
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:54,600
Speaker 3: because I think oftentimes what we as millennials have done

500
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:58,520
Speaker 3: is we've sought out ways to fix whatever part of

501
00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:00,880
Speaker 3: us we see has broken, and turn of like our

502
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:03,440
Speaker 3: ability to work all the time. So we're like, how

503
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:07,000
Speaker 3: can I get unburnt out so that I can work more? Right,

504
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 3: which is like, that's the problem, is that you want

505
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:13,720
Speaker 3: to fix yourself to work more, when really the solution

506
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:17,159
Speaker 3: almost all of the time is figuring out how you

507
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:17,920
Speaker 3: can work less.

508
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:19,919
Speaker 1: I talk about this all the time, Like part of

509
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:22,959
Speaker 1: my time management and kind of self management is I

510
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 1: schedule these little blocks of like fifteen minutes just to

511
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 1: do nothing that's not a lot of time is in

512
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:31,720
Speaker 1: the middle of the day is so useful, and I

513
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 1: don't I'm not apologizing for no, and you shouldn't, friend.

514
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:36,920
Speaker 2: So for me to battle burn out, what I try

515
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:41,560
Speaker 2: and do is be very very strict about what my

516
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,639
Speaker 2: cutoff time is for when I'm going to be like, okay,

517
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 2: this is tee tee time, Like I'm not doing anything else,

518
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,679
Speaker 2: I'm thinking about me. So that means that from you know,

519
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:54,560
Speaker 2: six thirty to seven thirty, I'm doing all the things

520
00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:56,399
Speaker 2: that I want to do, the things that make me happy,

521
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:59,919
Speaker 2: whether that's reading a book, gardening, or you know, call

522
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:04,160
Speaker 2: in my sisters or whatever whatever it is, it's tta time.

523
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:07,960
Speaker 2: So and I don't let anybody encroach on TTI time.

524
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,359
Speaker 1: One of the things that doctor Peterson also said is

525
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:14,399
Speaker 1: that you can't thinks burn out alone. You know, this

526
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 1: is a system.

527
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:17,320
Speaker 3: This is the kind of a message of the book

528
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,280
Speaker 3: is that it's not about us making any personal changes.

529
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 3: Although there are small things you can do and you

530
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:27,119
Speaker 3: can recognize about yourself. We have to vote and act

531
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 3: and talk and believe as a society that we want

532
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:35,399
Speaker 3: everyone to be less burnt out, and we need to

533
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:39,000
Speaker 3: elect leaders who want to put protections in place, who

534
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:41,240
Speaker 3: want to make it so that someone can, you know,

535
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:45,400
Speaker 3: work forty hours and still survive in America, Like, there

536
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,959
Speaker 3: are all of these different ways that we can restitch

537
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 3: that safety net, and it's going to take massive societal

538
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:54,959
Speaker 3: effort and it's not going to happen at once, but

539
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:57,760
Speaker 3: we just have to admit, like, it doesn't have to

540
00:26:57,800 --> 00:26:59,360
Speaker 3: be this way. We can change it.

541
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 2: All of us us are struggling. Everybody is struggling with

542
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 2: burnout right now, and so we just need to take

543
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 2: that into account that even if somebody has a nasty

544
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 2: attitude directly to you in an email and it's work,

545
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:13,439
Speaker 2: sometimes you just got to be like, I don't know

546
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:14,640
Speaker 2: what's going on at home for them.

547
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 1: Some of the indicators for burnout are also indicators for

548
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:22,639
Speaker 1: other things. And you know, burnout is not a pure

549
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 1: medical condition, like it's not a classified medical condition or diagnosis, right,

550
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 1: but it's linked to other mental health concerns, right, like depression, anxiety,

551
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 1: and so I think we always want to check in.

552
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 2: So if you're feeling particularly burnt out and you're feeling

553
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 2: like it's affecting you more mentally than anything else, definitely

554
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 2: try and reach out to somebody that you can talk to.

555
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:47,919
Speaker 2: Talkspace dot com is a great resource. This isn't an

556
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:50,919
Speaker 2: ad these are just resources that we know of, But

557
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,840
Speaker 2: definitely try and reach out to somebody and talk about

558
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 2: the things that you're experiencing.

559
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 1: I have to say, you know, tt, I'm really grateful

560
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 1: for you because I I think you're really good at

561
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 1: making me stop and think and not overload myself with

562
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:06,280
Speaker 1: things to do.

563
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 2: Lots of people come into lots of situations trying to

564
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 2: be a superhero like yes I can handle this, Yes

565
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:13,440
Speaker 2: I can handle this, And we always want to say

566
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:16,840
Speaker 2: yes because we don't want to block an opportunity and

567
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 2: we don't want to make it seem like, oh I

568
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:21,359
Speaker 2: can't handle the pressure. But that's not what it is like.

569
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:24,320
Speaker 2: Sometimes your play is legit full and in order to

570
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 2: give one hundred percent to something and give the highest

571
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:29,959
Speaker 2: quality work, you need the time and you need the space,

572
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 2: and we need to start granting ourselves that space. That's

573
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 2: it for Lap thirty two, But we have so much

574
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 2: more for you to dig into on our website, so

575
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 2: head on over to Dope labspodcast dot com or not

576
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 2: you need the rest friend.

577
00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:00,080
Speaker 1: On our website, you can find a cheat sheet for today,

578
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 1: along with a ton of other links and resources in

579
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 1: the show notes.

580
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:04,600
Speaker 2: And if you want to stay in the know with

581
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 2: what's going on with Dope Labs, don't forget to sign

582
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 2: up for our newsletter on our side too. No pressure though,

583
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:11,960
Speaker 2: you don't got to do any of this, get you

584
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:12,760
Speaker 2: some rest.

585
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,560
Speaker 1: Special thanks to our guest expert doctor and Helen Peterson.

586
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:20,600
Speaker 1: Her book Can't Even How Millennials Became The Burnout Generation

587
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 1: is available now wherever books are sold.

588
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:24,880
Speaker 2: You can find even more links to her work in

589
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 2: our show notes, but you don't got to go there

590
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 2: if you don't want to.

591
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 1: Also, we love hearing from you. What did you think

592
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 1: about today's lab? Do you have ideas for future labs?

593
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 1: Call us at two zero two five six seven seven

594
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 1: zero two eight and let us know.

595
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:41,960
Speaker 2: You can find us on Twitter and Instagram at Dope Labs.

596
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:46,920
Speaker 2: Podcast tt is on Twitter at dr Underscore Tsho, and

597
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 2: you can find Zakiya at z Said So follow us

598
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 2: on Spotify or wherever else you listen to podcasts. Dope

599
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:56,920
Speaker 2: Labs is produced by Jenny rattlet Mast and Lydia Smith

600
00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:58,280
Speaker 2: of waver Runner Studios.

601
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 1: Mixing in sound design are by HANNS. Brown.

602
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:04,680
Speaker 2: Our theme music is by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex Sugiura,

603
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 2: with additional music by Elijah Alex Harvey.

604
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 1: Dope Labs is a production of Spotify and Mega Oh

605
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:14,560
Speaker 1: Media Group, and it's executive produced by us T T Show,

606
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 1: Dia and Zakiyah Watley. You want to know another One

607
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 1: of my favorite is really fun mindless games What Bumble?

608
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:28,560
Speaker 1: It isn't Bumble a dating app, but it's like a game.

609
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:37,000
Speaker 1: Swipe left, swipe right. Oh, look at this cloud match.

610
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 1: Never text