Speaker 1: The volume.
Speaker 2: All right, John Middlecoff, We're gonna have a good one today.
Speaker 2: Don't go anywhere. We're gonna have a really good one
Speaker 2: over an hour today. I hope uh Bo Nix, Michael Pennix,
Speaker 2: JJ McCarthy, stuff on the Niners. We are gonna be
Speaker 2: packed today. Some rumors about Philadelphia and Nick Sirianni Jalen hurts.
Speaker 1: This is gonna be a great hour.
Speaker 2: Don't go anywhere before we go to John Middlecoff from
Speaker 2: an NFL scout ninety seconds download the game time app,
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Speaker 1: All right, We're.
Speaker 2: Ready to go. John Middlcoff three in out former NFL scout.
Speaker 2: There are no normal flights in America anymore. There are
Speaker 2: no normal flights. I don't do private. I want to
Speaker 2: be I tell my wife all the time. I'm one
Speaker 2: of the people up until the people arrive, man of
Speaker 2: the people. So I go on these just like everybody else.
Speaker 2: Last six flights, something happens, something unravels. Lady next to me,
Speaker 2: older lady, little eccentric things. She went to the bathroom
Speaker 2: nine times. At one point she was at the window.
Speaker 2: I was in the aisle, John, I said to her,
Speaker 2: would you like to sit in the outside seat? You know,
Speaker 2: see if she and she said no. And what I
Speaker 2: wanted to say was I meant outside of the plane,
Speaker 2: like on the wing. You want to sit out there?
Speaker 2: Because I literally my meal? Nope, get up, movie get
Speaker 2: up after about the ninth time, and we're about an
Speaker 2: hour out. I just kind of looked at her for
Speaker 2: a second and I thought, you know, what am I
Speaker 2: gonna do? What am I going to say?
Speaker 1: You know, I try to be I always want something
Speaker 1: crazy to happen on my plane flights. All these viral
Speaker 1: things of madness, it never really happens. I haven't really
Speaker 1: had many bad or weird interactions yet on the Internet
Speaker 1: and your story I hear and see about them all
Speaker 1: the time. I kind of want that to happen on
Speaker 1: one of my flights, maybe not next to me, but
Speaker 1: just somewhere in the vicinity, because it seems like these
Speaker 1: you're stuck. I mean Chicago to LA and that's not
Speaker 1: a that's not Sacramento to you know, Scots say, that's
Speaker 1: a long flight, right, what is it? Three and a
Speaker 1: half four hours?
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I've moved. You know, if somebody comes up
Speaker 2: to me, unless you know, they want me to move,
Speaker 2: like you know in Roll thirty eight, if somebody comes
Speaker 2: up and says, hey, my wife's sitting here, like I'm
Speaker 2: always like, yeah, go ahead, do whatever you want to do.
Speaker 2: I go online, I don't care. I watch a movie Netflix,
Speaker 2: I don't care. You know, people have different stuff. But
Speaker 2: today I'm just like, come on, man, give.
Speaker 1: Me a break. Just like, drink too much water or something.
Speaker 2: She was drinking a lot of water, and you know,
Speaker 2: it could have been people have what they have. It
Speaker 2: could have been a you know, you know, there's a
Speaker 2: lot of stuff going on right now in America. True,
Speaker 2: I'm not going to guess. So my first take was
Speaker 2: of all the young quarterbacks, bow Nicks look exactly like
Speaker 2: I thought bo Nix was going to look like. And
Speaker 2: the Broncos quarterback out of Auburn and Oregon because he
Speaker 2: had so many college starts, you kind of know what
Speaker 2: he is and what I think.
Speaker 1: I mean.
Speaker 2: I think the Drew Brees comp because of Sean Payton
Speaker 2: feels kind of accurate. He's certainly right now more mobile
Speaker 2: than Drew Brees was at the end of his career.
Speaker 2: But my take on bow Nicks was, that's exactly what
Speaker 2: Sean had texted me. That's exactly what I saw in college.
Speaker 2: No big surprises. You're a former scout, what'd you see?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I think him and Michael Pennix are two guys
Speaker 1: that played in college football for felt ten years and
Speaker 1: they played each other. It felt like what four or
Speaker 1: five times over the last eighteen months in massive games,
Speaker 1: and starting with bow knicks, he got dinged a lot
Speaker 1: because of the offense he played in right through it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: parallel to the line of scrimmage all the time. It
Speaker 1: used to happen forever with the leech offensive guys, the
Speaker 1: spread offense, you know, Hawaii, Mike Leach, wherever he was
Speaker 1: then Oklahoma started, you didn't need a big arm quarterback.
Speaker 1: Watching him in college going, I think his arm's a
Speaker 1: little bit better than the way he's getting I would say,
Speaker 1: kind of pigeonholed as a player, and you watch him today,
Speaker 1: I don't want to say he's you know, he's not
Speaker 1: Brett Favor Josh Allen, but his arm strength is well
Speaker 1: above average in the NFL. And that touchdown pass he
Speaker 1: had was in and out of his hands in the
Speaker 1: corner of the end zone, hitting the guy accurately at
Speaker 1: the front of the pylon. It doesn't get any better
Speaker 1: than that, the velocity, the accuracy, how quick it is.
Speaker 1: And then obviously you see again Patrick Willis isn't exactly
Speaker 1: chasing him, but clearly his athleticism moving around translates and
Speaker 1: and he's confident like that was the thing with Trey
Speaker 1: Lance when the Niners got him his athleticism, he wasn't
Speaker 1: confident in it because he had never been chased by
Speaker 1: the caliber of player. Bo Nicks has been playing the
Speaker 1: best of the best, like I said, for ten years
Speaker 1: in college and athleticism movement wise. Clearly what Sean Payton
Speaker 1: wanted to do and this didn't work out because he's
Speaker 1: not a quarterback, was a guy like Taysom Hill who
Speaker 1: could move around and throw. You know, Drew Brew he
Speaker 1: was stagnant in the pocket. Now he's great at it.
Speaker 1: But the modern day football, you have to be able
Speaker 1: to move to throw. I don't need you to be
Speaker 1: Lamar Jackson, but you've got to be able to keep
Speaker 1: plays alive. You notice all these rookie quarterbacks. They're all athletic,
Speaker 1: and they all can throw on the move. And bo
Speaker 1: Nicks clearly can. And I know, Sean kind of old
Speaker 1: school not naming the starter had him down. This thing's over, Okay,
Speaker 1: I don't even know who the Broncos play week one.
Speaker 1: He's your starting quarterback week one. You agree with that,
Speaker 1: and this thing will play itself out you know, I
Speaker 1: think you want to make him earn it. Sean is
Speaker 1: not one of these new age thirty eight year old
Speaker 1: offensive coordinators. Yeah, but this thing played itself out today
Speaker 1: in front of everyone's eyes, like there's no point putting.
Speaker 1: It'd be one thing if they had Peyton Manning or something.
Speaker 1: This Jared stid them like this, this thing's.
Speaker 2: A rand, come on well. And the other thing, he
Speaker 2: looked more comfortable in the pocket one of his backups,
Speaker 2: Zach Wilson did in any game in New York. His
Speaker 2: feet were great, he was set. That's a lot of
Speaker 2: it's just college starts. And the other thing. He played
Speaker 2: in the SEC. So that's the best defensive conference easily.
Speaker 2: And then when he went to the Pac twelve, that's
Speaker 2: probably the best the Pac twelve has been in my lifetime.
Speaker 2: I mean, Washington was good, Oregon was good, Utah and thump.
Speaker 2: Oregon State was good. USC could score, Arizona won seven
Speaker 2: in a row and beat Oklahoma in a bowl game.
Speaker 2: The conference was really.
Speaker 1: Ucla was good on defense these last couple of years.
Speaker 1: They had a top fifteen pass rusher.
Speaker 2: So I bow Nick's you know, you say, oh, we
Speaker 2: went to the Pac twelve. No this pac twelve. Arizona
Speaker 2: the basketball school reeled off seven straight and beat Oklahoma
Speaker 2: in a bowl game. It was a real Oregon State
Speaker 2: was really good at the end of the year. It's like, guys,
Speaker 2: this and you know the utter thing about bowl When
Speaker 2: I watched him twice. I saw him play Washington Oregon
Speaker 2: in person. I saw him at the forty end zone.
Speaker 2: And then I went two weeks later, I think it
Speaker 2: was or whatever it was, I went to the Utah
Speaker 2: game and I got like second row seats. I called
Speaker 2: the buddy. I got right down the field, right behind
Speaker 2: the Oregon bench because I wanted to watch he and Penix.
Speaker 2: And he's more cut than you think he's. He he's
Speaker 2: ripped and he is really verbal on the sideline dad
Speaker 2: A's a coach. And then I met him in person
Speaker 2: for about an hour forty five minute interview, forty minute
Speaker 2: interview before and after the show. I was just blown
Speaker 2: away by him. And then I got a couple early
Speaker 2: texts from Sean Payton and I was like, this kid's
Speaker 2: really working. And the other thing about him is there
Speaker 2: is something to be said about seeing the field. We've
Speaker 2: always said this was Zach Wilson and Justin fields. They
Speaker 2: just don't see it. It just takes a beat too long.
Speaker 2: Bo sees the field. And some of this is not
Speaker 2: only did he play at two schools. I believe he
Speaker 2: had five different coordinators in five years. It could be four,
Speaker 2: but I think it's five. So John, this kid has
Speaker 2: had to pick up. We've never seen this kid have
Speaker 2: the same system back to back here.
Speaker 1: Well, think about this, Colin, and we've talked about this
Speaker 1: many times. All the best quarterbacks right now in the
Speaker 1: NFL have struggled at points in time early in their career.
Speaker 1: A lot of them in college. Mahomes is on a
Speaker 1: team getting their ass kicked by any good team. Right
Speaker 1: did not have any Josh Allen Baked schools like Fresno
Speaker 1: State first scholarship, they said no thanks. Lamar got drafted
Speaker 1: thirty second in a draft that had a bunch of quarterbacks.
Speaker 1: His own team drafted another player before they drafted him.
Speaker 1: Justin Herbert was kind of an afterthought after Joe Burrow
Speaker 1: into a Tongua Bay Lowe. So you look at this class.
Speaker 1: Bo Knicks got beat up bad when he was in
Speaker 1: the SEC and had to transfer, and clearly it changed
Speaker 1: his career, right, So you see a lot of these guys.
Speaker 1: You know, Caleb is one guy that had a lot
Speaker 1: of success, But I think this class is full of
Speaker 1: guys that had to struggle, and he, to me, is
Speaker 1: at the top of the Him and Penix, I mean
Speaker 1: had to transfer, were not viewed as first round picks
Speaker 1: by any means at the time they transferred and really
Speaker 1: had to earn it. And both those two guys, I mean,
Speaker 1: bo was awesome. I mean in college, obviously statistically he
Speaker 1: was incredible. Now it's a little inflated the way people play.
Speaker 1: It's why that any coach will tell you, Okay, he
Speaker 1: throws a bunch, you know, parallel to the line of scrimmage.
Speaker 1: When I evaluate him, we don't want those passes. I
Speaker 1: think Sean said that I cut those out and we
Speaker 1: evaluate everything past the line of scrimmage, the timing, the rhythm,
Speaker 1: the accuracy. Yeah, I mean I was pretty blown away.
Speaker 1: I mean I was bullish on him just because of
Speaker 1: his coach, but his physical skills. That's the other thing.
Speaker 1: Him and Caleb Bright aren't super tall, and it stands
Speaker 1: out when you see him. They're not six four sixty five.
Speaker 1: Both of them are thick. Both of them are built. Russell,
Speaker 1: who's shorter than those guys, had that same thing early on.
Speaker 1: You're like, well, he looks like an NFL guy physically. Kyler,
Speaker 1: who's even shorter in that also built, and that matters.
Speaker 1: And that's like watching Jayden, very physically gifted, throws a
Speaker 1: beautiful ball, but god, he's skinny. And bo Nicks has
Speaker 1: this innate ability because he's been a runner his whole
Speaker 1: life and he played in the SEC. He's not playing heroball.
Speaker 1: Get out of bounds, get down like I'm getting. Caleb
Speaker 1: yesterday had a great slide, like you can't be running
Speaker 1: around JJ McCarthy yesterday had a run. There were two defenders.
Speaker 1: He kind of lowered his shoulders, like you can't do this.
Speaker 1: And I understand John Lynch and Steve Atwater the game
Speaker 1: has changed, but that's the only time when these defenders.
Speaker 1: They can't hit you all preseason because the starters don't
Speaker 1: play joint practices. There's no tackling the regular season game
Speaker 1: for seventeen of them. When you cross that line of
Speaker 1: scrimmage and you're erect, they're coming at you. And I
Speaker 1: know these guys are a little smaller They've never been faster.
Speaker 1: So these linebackers now, they don't wait two sixty, they
Speaker 1: weigh two twenty eight or two thirty four. They're running
Speaker 1: four four fours and they will destroy that. They'll break
Speaker 1: your collarbone, they'll break your leg.
Speaker 2: So well, that's what happened to Baker Mayfield that when
Speaker 2: he got his collarbone broken, he tried to size up
Speaker 2: a safety. I think it was kar Ran over him.
Speaker 1: Can't do it. I remember early on in Derek Carr's
Speaker 1: career he tried to stiff arm pac Man Jones. Luck
Speaker 1: he didn't break his hand. He hurt his thumb. You
Speaker 1: cannot these guys. And I think bo Nick's very unique
Speaker 1: situation when you say to go to a coach like
Speaker 1: this with the experience he has. But to me, the
Speaker 1: physical skills were got. I guess I didn't quite realize
Speaker 1: how strong his arm was. It jumped off the TV
Speaker 1: this morning.
Speaker 2: So the other guy you mentioned, JJ McCarthy, you know
Speaker 2: he So you were a little surprised by bo Nix's
Speaker 2: arm strength. JJ. I always thought he moved. I thought
Speaker 2: he was a little quicker when I watched him this weekend.
Speaker 2: Then I thought he was in college, not that I
Speaker 2: didn't think he was athletic. He threw a pick, it's
Speaker 2: it's sideline, it's you know, it's Jack Jones, good player
Speaker 2: for the Raiders, quick kid, All American underachieved in his
Speaker 2: college career. But he's actually super talented.
Speaker 1: He gets in trouble, but he can pay.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he can really play. So there's no big with that,
Speaker 2: big deal with that. But I thought, I mean, Darnold
Speaker 2: will start, But I thought, Jj. You know what I
Speaker 2: noticed with JJ McCarthy. He looked super confident. He just
Speaker 2: felt like because I kept wondering, like, you know, he
Speaker 2: kind of was a handoff guy for a lot of
Speaker 2: the big games at Michigan. He made one or two
Speaker 2: big throws every game. He came out with a ton
Speaker 2: of confidence. And this goes to something I think we
Speaker 2: both said before the draft. Whoever Minnesota drafted a quarterback had,
Speaker 2: after maybe Caleb, the greatest chance to succeed. We all
Speaker 2: know situational football matters. I mean, if you get a McVeigh,
Speaker 2: a Peyton, that matters. When I watched him play that,
Speaker 2: I watched the young quarterback who had had an offensive coach,
Speaker 2: the tall Sean McVay. Kevin O'Connell in his ear. He
Speaker 2: looked like he played with more confidence in kind of
Speaker 2: uh bravado with the Vikings. They didn't Michigan, Michigan. He
Speaker 2: was a little tempered. It was almost like, hey, if
Speaker 2: we just don't turn it over, we're beating everybody. He
Speaker 2: was making plays, he was moving around for the Vikings.
Speaker 1: One thing I really try to watch. I mean, the
Speaker 1: preseason games in the second half can be unwatchable. Luckily,
Speaker 1: this group of quarterbacks, there's like six of them, Like
Speaker 1: you just like, I want to see what these top
Speaker 1: twelve quarterbacks look like. Yeah, he stepped up in the
Speaker 1: pocket and was very calm, which was like that that
Speaker 1: is a trait that every team looks for always. There
Speaker 1: was one pass that he completed over the middle where
Speaker 1: a defender was basically unblocked and took him out and
Speaker 1: he didn't hesitate and listen. Michigan was built. I think
Speaker 1: they had, I mean five of their offensive lineman got
Speaker 1: drafted for sure, it might have been six. Obviously, Jim
Speaker 1: Harbaugh wants to run the ball. That's gonna what he's
Speaker 1: gonna do. He's gonna ask his quarterback, especially in college,
Speaker 1: a little something different Andrew luck was not asked to
Speaker 1: do what he did in college in the pros, right,
Speaker 1: he started throwing it all over the place. To me,
Speaker 1: he loved that kid though, And Jim Harbaugh doesn't love
Speaker 1: you if you're not a tough guy. So to me,
Speaker 1: like Jim Miller's his toughness and that was on full display.
Speaker 1: But like you said, the movement, the accuracy, to me,
Speaker 1: the pocket presence, I think, what's tough. And I'm root
Speaker 1: for Sam Darnold too, but if i'm When they drafted
Speaker 1: Patrick Mahomes, Alex had some equity with the fans and
Speaker 1: the franchise, right. He helped Andy resurrect the team. They
Speaker 1: were going to the playoffs. He had been solid. Obviously
Speaker 1: they needed better, but like I think, when you have
Speaker 1: a bridge quarterback in a situation like this, it better
Speaker 1: start fast because fans are gonna be like, what are
Speaker 1: we waiting for? Like by Jefferson, I would imagine Addison
Speaker 1: get suspended a couple of games, but whenever he's back,
Speaker 1: you got an offensive head coach. I mean, we got
Speaker 1: a star tackle. Like, let's just let's just get this
Speaker 1: thing going. I mean, and I preseason is different than
Speaker 1: regular season. The game plan. I get it, but like
Speaker 1: his physical skills where he's coming from, Like you said,
Speaker 1: his confidence is barbado and is his pocket work. That's
Speaker 1: usually something like, hey, we gotta calm this guy down.
Speaker 1: He's he's jittery. It happens to a lot of backups
Speaker 1: when starters get hurt, right in the regular season, Like,
Speaker 1: this guy's overwhelmed. It didn't seem like he's scared. Think
Speaker 1: of the defense this kid's been going up against for
Speaker 1: two years. It's an NFL defense, NFL coordinator, right, So
Speaker 1: he's he's comfortable the bright lights, everything, you know, that
Speaker 1: Hardbob rings, Like this guy's been at you know, like
Speaker 1: Alabama Georgia level for these last couple of years. Just
Speaker 1: what he's feeling on an everyday basis and practice in
Speaker 1: the NFL is hard. So I think this guy's he
Speaker 1: just looked comfortable, which to me, I allways projet project project.
Speaker 1: This guy didn't really look a huge project to me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I thought Donald would be much more,
Speaker 2: not much more, but more athletic than JJ McCarthy, a
Speaker 2: little bigger than JJ. He's a thicker kid, but I
Speaker 2: thought JJ look he looked like Sam Darnald, he looked
Speaker 2: a little quicker.
Speaker 1: Are you better off? Though? Like, I don't think Minnesota
Speaker 1: is a playoff team, so are you better off? I'm
Speaker 1: a big believer you learn through experience, you learn by doing.
Speaker 1: That's what we say at Harvard or the West cal Pauly.
Speaker 1: But I do think it's true the more you do something,
Speaker 1: the more comfortable you get at it. I don't care
Speaker 1: if it's radio, podcast sales or playing quarterback. You can
Speaker 1: only gain so much sitting behind a guy. And if
Speaker 1: Sam Darnald the leash, it's a one year deal, it's
Speaker 1: not like It's not like the Kirk Cousins Pennock situation,
Speaker 1: so you you already know the outcome in the future.
Speaker 1: I think there's a weird spot because obviously a coach,
Speaker 1: this is the NFL. Everyone's trying to win this. No
Speaker 1: one tanks early, maybe in December. But I wonder if
Speaker 1: they have second thoughts. Obviously I think, say, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: get the start immediately. But if it's a little rocky,
Speaker 1: don't you want to get this guy a lot of experience,
Speaker 1: especially he knows the plays. He looks comfortable like these
Speaker 1: reps will only help him the next couple of years
Speaker 1: when you try to build around his rookie contract. So
Speaker 1: I'm a Sam I'm I've always rooted for Sam Donald,
Speaker 1: like you have a soft spot for him. But like
Speaker 1: if I was a Vikings fan, I'd be like, what
Speaker 1: the hell are we waiting for?
Speaker 2: Well, it's it's listen. I'm in good company. Kyle Shanahan
Speaker 2: likes Donald, Kevin O'Connell likes.
Speaker 1: Donald.
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, I kind of feel like Sam's in
Speaker 2: the class of do is he the best backup in
Speaker 2: the league now? Really seriously, Like that's a that's like
Speaker 2: a real thing, like you're gonna play. I think my
Speaker 2: take would be, you give it to Sam for a
Speaker 2: couple of weeks, but once you go to JJ, there's
Speaker 2: no going back. So I think Kevin will probably say
Speaker 2: I was thinking as I watched him, Kevin's probably thinking, Wow,
Speaker 2: they're closer than I thought. But but I get it.
Speaker 2: Some of it could be health, Like your takeaway is
Speaker 2: what are the matchups? What's the health of the old line.
Speaker 2: But my thing, you're not going to go back if
Speaker 2: you start JJ, So I think you just kind of look,
Speaker 2: I think it's much closer than I thought going in
Speaker 2: but and if last year, what's ironic is last year
Speaker 2: they had to make a trade for Josh Dobbs. They
Speaker 2: may have two guys that can play right now. And
Speaker 2: I think Jason McIntyre said this the editor he picked
Speaker 2: up for the playoffs. I said this, if they finished fourth,
Speaker 2: that is the best fourth place team in a decade
Speaker 2: in the league. That team's got dudes offensively everywhere. That's
Speaker 2: a good offense.
Speaker 1: I think it would be pretty if they made the playoffs.
Speaker 1: That'd be an increased I mean, it'd be one of
Speaker 1: the better coaching jobs in recent memory. Given the division.
Speaker 1: I mean, the Lions are stacked, right did you see
Speaker 1: the touchdown past Jordan Love look like he has missed
Speaker 1: a bag. Yeah, last year, that team's going to be good.
Speaker 1: And let's face it, Caleb is such an upgrade from
Speaker 1: what they had. And they were a seven eight ish
Speaker 1: win team last year, So you go, they're going to
Speaker 1: be better this year that that division. Like you said,
Speaker 1: you could finish fourth, win six games and be like,
Speaker 1: we're better than every team that's kind of in our
Speaker 1: range by a wide margin.
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Speaker 2: So I want to talk about Caleb Williams of the Bears.
Speaker 2: So Jordan Palmer was on my show I think it
Speaker 2: was Thursday, and I thought he made a really good point.
Speaker 2: I said, you know my criticism if I have one
Speaker 2: of Caleb, he can be a little erratic. I talked
Speaker 2: to two gms in the league about Caleb. They didn't
Speaker 2: need him, they have quarterbacks, and they both said he
Speaker 2: can be a little erratic. You know, sometimes he gets
Speaker 2: a bit sloppy. Mahomes does, or did early in his career. Mechanically,
Speaker 2: you know, Patrick's running around, he just gets a little
Speaker 2: backyard football lee. And both the gms I talked to
Speaker 2: with Caleb said he just he just has to get
Speaker 2: more in rhythm, which he said, I think in the
Speaker 2: pros he won't run around as much. He's a smart kid.
Speaker 2: He'll figure out I don't want to get hit. The
Speaker 2: second thing is sometimes he's a little bit of a playmaker,
Speaker 2: a little bit of an ad libber. But Jordan Palmer said, listen,
Speaker 2: he got bored with college.
Speaker 1: He was the.
Speaker 2: Heisman winner right his first year at USC, and then
Speaker 2: USC can't stop anybody his second year and he's like,
Speaker 2: okay and terrible, and he's like, we're not a national
Speaker 2: championship team. And Jordan said, when I watched him, I
Speaker 2: saw a guy that was bored out of his mind.
Speaker 2: And I think there's a lot of truth to that.
Speaker 2: So when you get bored, you lose focus. When you
Speaker 2: lose focus in any job, you get a little sloppy.
Speaker 2: I thought Caleb was a little sloppy last year. And
Speaker 2: I think sometimes Lincoln Riley, because of the offensive line,
Speaker 2: really struggled with what to call. And I heard that
Speaker 2: inside the program. It's like Lincoln just didn't trust the protection.
Speaker 2: So he's like, I'm not getting Caleb Williams hurt. I'm
Speaker 2: not getting it, you know, cause Caleb was. He came
Speaker 2: all the way out to USC first year, got pretty
Speaker 2: good protection, wins the highest. But I think Lincoln feels
Speaker 2: like you know what it's worth it. This is gonna
Speaker 2: be great by the second year. Halfway through it, I
Speaker 2: think Lincoln, what I was told is Lincoln just there's
Speaker 2: things Lincoln wouldn't call. He didn't want to get him hurt.
Speaker 2: And so I think go back to the previous year.
Speaker 2: That's the Caleb Williams you're going to see in Chicago,
Speaker 2: which is focused runs the play, can ad lib if
Speaker 2: he has to. But Jordan's whole point was don't judge
Speaker 2: too much. In the last five or six USC games,
Speaker 2: team was terrible. He was bored ad libing a little
Speaker 2: bit more than he probably would in real life. So
Speaker 2: what's your thought on that?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think if you go and watch
Speaker 1: every play that he had in that preseason game, he
Speaker 1: showed every tool in the toolbox. I mean, my mother
Speaker 1: could see that play that he made roll into his
Speaker 1: right that he threw to Comet. That's as good as
Speaker 1: it gets. I mean, that's Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes. But
Speaker 1: the play that he made, the little dump off to Swift.
Speaker 1: I don't think we talk enough about instincts as a quarterback.
Speaker 1: Some guys have them and some guys don't, and that
Speaker 1: means feel in the pocket. That means to know when
Speaker 1: it's not going to go well and I got rid
Speaker 1: of the ball immediately, or when I can keep a
Speaker 1: play alive. And I think the new trait that every
Speaker 1: team looks for is the scramble to throw and keep
Speaker 1: plays alive. But to scramble to throw, you need a
Speaker 1: good arm. It's what Aaron Rodgers built a Hall of
Speaker 1: Fame career on. He could throw outside the tackle box
Speaker 1: ropes accurately. And that's what Caleb Williams can do in spades,
Speaker 1: because let's face it, all these teams in the NFL
Speaker 1: now multiple most teams have multiple sweet pass rushers. There
Speaker 1: aren't as many good offensive linemen in the league anymore,
Speaker 1: so you've got to be able to move. And he's
Speaker 1: accurate in the arm. Strength is just elite. Like you said,
Speaker 1: he's gonna have a little hero ball, But how could
Speaker 1: you not have hero ball if that's the skill that
Speaker 1: he has. I mean, Patrick Mahomes, he had to get
Speaker 1: older and realize that we can play a little different,
Speaker 1: but early on, like I want him to bring that
Speaker 1: to the table because he's accurate throwing the ball downfield.
Speaker 1: If he has to move now there's a difference of
Speaker 1: something was open, you didn't need to do that, but
Speaker 1: like nothing was there, your guard gets smoked. You gotta move.
Speaker 1: But he made he did it all. He threw a
Speaker 1: sweet play I think on like the second or third
Speaker 1: pass of the game from the pocket. He had the
Speaker 1: crazy instinctive play to swift. He had the play on
Speaker 1: the move. The other thing and they I don't know
Speaker 1: if you saw hard knocks yet, but they kind of
Speaker 1: did this silly thing where they brought it a slip
Speaker 1: and slide to teach the quarterbacks how to slide. I'm
Speaker 1: sorry that they were joking about it, but also kind
Speaker 1: of serious. It's important. His right arm is the franchise
Speaker 1: and he had a scramble where he slid, and he's
Speaker 1: gonna have I would say, depending on the game, anywhere
Speaker 1: from two to five could be second, and eight could
Speaker 1: be third and eight. He can scramble for ten yards
Speaker 1: and pick up a first down. But when you scramble
Speaker 1: and you're not by the sideline, you gotta fucking hit
Speaker 1: the ground and you gotta slide because they can't touch you,
Speaker 1: and the defenders know it when you stay up. And
Speaker 1: JJ McCarthy did in the game, and a lot of
Speaker 1: quarterbacks do it. You're gonna get clipped and you're gonna
Speaker 1: get clipped hard. So if you're doing that, he can
Speaker 1: stay healthy because he can avoid well. His short area
Speaker 1: of quickness is just elite and then the army. He
Speaker 1: doesn't need much space to get that thing off.
Speaker 2: Oh no, very mahomes like cognitively see get rid of
Speaker 2: it fast. It's very Marino at USC he sees it.
Speaker 2: It's out fast. The other thing is Kyler and Russell
Speaker 2: Wilson were all was great sliders because they were baseball players. Yeah,
Speaker 2: they were great. Lamar was terrible his first two years.
Speaker 1: I mean he still kind of plops. He's not natural
Speaker 1: at it.
Speaker 2: He kind of jumps and sits but he can't say.
Speaker 1: But he learned how to avoid the hits. He can
Speaker 1: just get down, that's right.
Speaker 2: So I think some of that is Caleb is it is.
Speaker 2: I mean, Russell Wilson and Kyler were just like, Okay,
Speaker 2: they've slid in a second a lot. This is obviously
Speaker 2: the way they do it. It was terrible his first
Speaker 2: two years. Like, dude, you're six ' five. You can't
Speaker 2: go straight on an outside linebacker. I mean he'd goes
Speaker 2: shoulder high and a guy Josh Allen, So I think, yeah, so,
Speaker 2: I mean, and the other thing with Caleb, And by
Speaker 2: the way, this was Jordan Love. Jordan Love had a
Speaker 2: better year the year before he came out, and then
Speaker 2: he lost a coordinator. Remember that he lost the coordinator,
Speaker 2: he lost a coach, he lost people. He was not
Speaker 2: very good as awful. So the Packers went to the
Speaker 2: previous year video and went, yeah, that's that's who he is.
Speaker 2: And so you take the best of what you saw
Speaker 2: because obviously, if you lose a coach at Utah State,
Speaker 2: you may get If you have three coordinators at Utah State,
Speaker 2: two may stink, one may be okay. So when he
Speaker 2: had his best coaches, Green Bay looks at that and goes, Okay,
Speaker 2: that's what he can be because our coaches are great offensively.
Speaker 2: So I think with Caleb, you go back a year
Speaker 2: and go when the old line was healthy. He'd come over.
Speaker 2: And Lincoln was not afraid. Remember that year if they
Speaker 2: beat Tulane, they went twelve games. They were really really
Speaker 2: smoking that year. The second year, I think just I mean,
Speaker 2: I was told this, Lincoln just he didn't.
Speaker 1: He didn't.
Speaker 2: It was a different play calling year, a different sensibility
Speaker 2: with Kleb, and it was he just wanted to make
Speaker 2: sure he didn't get hurt.
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people in one talking point
Speaker 1: in football always is his arm strength a little overrated?
Speaker 1: And then you watch Caleb play, and you watch Mahomes,
Speaker 1: and you watch Josh Allen or Herbert and you just
Speaker 1: go bs, it's just not now. Greg Maddox is one
Speaker 1: of the greatest pitchers of all time. He did not
Speaker 1: throw that hard, but most of the other greats, Nolan Ryan,
Speaker 1: Randy Johnson, Pedro was blowing ninety seven. You kind of
Speaker 1: gotta throw hard. And you know, Perty can get away
Speaker 1: with it a little bit because his offensive scheme is
Speaker 1: so great and he's a good athlete. He can scramble.
Speaker 1: But Peyton Manning's one of the most accurate players in
Speaker 1: the history of the sport. Arm strength match yes, and
Speaker 1: it always has and it always will. And you see
Speaker 1: these plays and you only see it even more once
Speaker 1: the regular season starts. All these former quarterbacks talk about
Speaker 1: the the kind of space in college relative to the NFL,
Speaker 1: of what's open. Things happen quick. A lot of things
Speaker 1: get screwed up, and you got to add lib and
Speaker 1: that even puts more pressure on your arm. It ultimately
Speaker 1: can be the downfall of some of these guys that
Speaker 1: can't scramble and don't have a great arm, like Cousins
Speaker 1: and Golf are good examples. When it's perfect, they can
Speaker 1: destroy you. They can have four or five touchdowns on you.
Speaker 1: But if you can throw them off, they can't move,
Speaker 1: and then they can't throw very hard on the move.
Speaker 1: So it's a major problem. You watch, you watch the
Speaker 1: modern day football the modern day football player who's having
Speaker 1: a lot of success in the NBA. What is it?
Speaker 1: You gotta shoot threes? You better be able to scramble
Speaker 1: and throw ropes because these all these young coaches want
Speaker 1: to get you on the move. And even when they're
Speaker 1: not getting you on the move, because more than likely
Speaker 1: you're gonna have two or three offensive linemen that they
Speaker 1: would gladly replace if they could, you're gonna be running
Speaker 1: for your life. And a lot of these the good
Speaker 1: ones keep their eyes up, scramble and throw in Caleb.
Speaker 1: It's like geez it was to get up on Saturday
Speaker 1: more and watch in the bill. I mean file score
Speaker 1: was like thirty three to six. The Bills clearly didn't
Speaker 1: even care. But just to watch his physical attribute, You're like, wow,
Speaker 1: this in an NFL you and they were a DJ
Speaker 1: Moore out there. They command, they were trying, you know,
Speaker 1: they wanted to get this yes, confidence, yeah smart.
Speaker 2: So Jaden Daniels is a really interesting player to me.
Speaker 2: He is skinny. It's not quite the Bryce Young where
Speaker 2: he looks like, honestly, the helmet's too big for him.
Speaker 2: It's not that, but he doesn't have the neck, the shoulders,
Speaker 2: he didn't have the width. So I mean that that's
Speaker 2: kind of the reality of it. He looked. I remember
Speaker 2: watching him at Arizona State under her metwards and I'm like,
Speaker 2: he may wait won seventy, Like it just didn't look right.
Speaker 2: And then it looks like he's up to whatever it is,
Speaker 2: to something. There's a little lamar, he's real quick. There's
Speaker 2: a little Jordan Love where he lets it fly. I
Speaker 2: said this the other day. What I like about Washington.
Speaker 2: Everybody's new, I mean, owner, GM, coach, coordinator, players. It's
Speaker 2: almost like you're part of a huge recruiting class. Like
Speaker 2: the new coach comes in, the new Lincoln Riley comes in.
Speaker 2: It's all his guys, right, but he brings in the transfers,
Speaker 2: the recruiting class, and I feel like with Jayden, you know,
Speaker 2: nobody's got seniority, nobody's you know, there's nobody that's resentful
Speaker 2: of the new guys. That every single person in the
Speaker 2: building is new. That matters. And I think that's important
Speaker 2: for young quarterbacks because I think sometimes what happens is
Speaker 2: a GM inherits a quarterback and is really not rooting
Speaker 2: for him, Sean Payton and Harrets Russell Wilson, you know,
Speaker 2: he's just looking for reasons to move on. So what
Speaker 2: this tells me is John and you know this is
Speaker 2: a scout. Jaden's going to get a full two years
Speaker 2: of snaps. They're not bailing on it. They want this
Speaker 2: to work.
Speaker 1: Everybody in the.
Speaker 2: Building was like, let's get it, dan Quinn, you know
Speaker 2: you only get to miss on one quarterback. Cliff Kingsbury.
Speaker 2: He's trying to rest his right now, his resume. You know,
Speaker 2: people are like a kid coach, He's not hey, he
Speaker 2: wants a second chance at this thing. If Jayden goes
Speaker 2: Rookie of the Year, people are gonna give Kingsbury a
Speaker 2: lot of credit, a lot of kudos. So my take
Speaker 2: is on Jaden, it's not one of these where half
Speaker 2: the people in the building they're almost like, you know,
Speaker 2: justin Fields, he kind of felt like half the guys
Speaker 2: in the building just weren't into it. He didn't do
Speaker 2: himself favors. But I think Jaden's gonna get two straight years,
Speaker 2: no judgment. I think it's gonna work. I don't know
Speaker 2: to what I feel like it's gonna work.
Speaker 1: Well. I would say the hype train on this has
Speaker 1: been coming full steam ahead since training camp started. You know,
Speaker 1: Caleb Williams the headliner. If this was a concert, it'd
Speaker 1: be like Caleb Williams the headliner, and this is the
Speaker 1: act that comes on before the headliner. But by the
Speaker 1: end of that concert, that person is a star and
Speaker 1: they're gonna be a headliner next year. That's how it's felt.
Speaker 1: I mean, they just joint practice against the Jets, and
Speaker 1: Sauce Gardner says, I went up to him and told him, Holy,
Speaker 1: you're gonna be a player, And defenders don't just say
Speaker 1: that because they're trying to be friendly. Like he's trbably
Speaker 1: getting watching this guy pass. He throws Colin a beautiful
Speaker 1: deepst I mean, remember Russell Wilson early on. It's like
Speaker 1: his deep ball. That's gonna work. You just throw some
Speaker 1: go routes every single you know, couple a quarter or something.
Speaker 1: Push the ball down the field. His accuracy hits it,
Speaker 1: and he's a really, really good athlete. My question will
Speaker 1: be one the running around. He's never been a slide guy,
Speaker 1: and he's thin. He will get hit. You've got to
Speaker 1: learn how to do that because he's gonna They're gonna
Speaker 1: run him. He had a touchdown yesterday. He just ran
Speaker 1: him in. Now he walked into the end zone. But
Speaker 1: they're gonna use these plays like Sean did with bow Nicks. Yes,
Speaker 1: you're gonna scheme up run plays and then just can
Speaker 1: he just pick you apart against a schemed good defense.
Speaker 1: When you're playing the Cowboys, when you're playing the Eagles,
Speaker 1: when you're playing the Giants, they all have good defensive lineman.
Speaker 1: They're coming at you, and he really you know, in
Speaker 1: college he had Malik Naghbors, who I mean, I think
Speaker 1: could be an NFL star. The other guy was drafting
Speaker 1: the top twenty five. I mean, yeah, so's he's used
Speaker 1: to playing with stars. Terry Mclaurin's good. But this is
Speaker 1: it's not just gonna be easy all the time. So
Speaker 1: I think he's gonna have some ups and downs. But
Speaker 1: even Zach Kertz said earlier this training camp, stop saying
Speaker 1: he's gonna be a good player. He's good now this.
Speaker 1: I don't think they're just blowing smoke. I think all
Speaker 1: these people see him. They see he's accurate. The deep
Speaker 1: ball's awesome, and he can move. You're like, there're is
Speaker 1: so much here?
Speaker 2: Well well, and Brian Kelly said this, and this is
Speaker 2: what Cliff Kingsbury has said. He installs something the next
Speaker 2: day nails it. Ye, So you know one of the
Speaker 2: if you look at some of these guys that miss,
Speaker 2: they just don't do the homework. I mean, Johnny Manzel
Speaker 2: admits it. He just didn't do the homework. Like so
Speaker 2: athletic ability, I always believe buys you two years in
Speaker 2: the pocket, where if you're figuring out the defense, you're
Speaker 2: not not up to speed. Everything's too fast. You're gonna run,
Speaker 2: you're gonna move the chains, you're gonna your feet, are
Speaker 2: gonna get your first downs. You're not gonna be great,
Speaker 2: but it'll buy you stuff. Jared Goff didn't get that
Speaker 2: his first year, right, like you either figure out. You
Speaker 2: either figure out or you're in big trouble. They had
Speaker 2: to get him Andrew Whitworth and say we got to
Speaker 2: build a pocket here. So and the Washington's offensive line
Speaker 2: is not very good. It's not Giants bad, but it's
Speaker 2: not very good. So the truth is he'll he has
Speaker 2: the advantage that for two years he's gonna move around
Speaker 2: a lot and he's gonna buy some first downs. Kyler
Speaker 2: did this. That was a shitty old line he inherited.
Speaker 2: And it's like he kind of figured out how to
Speaker 2: move the chains. Seven eight play drives because nine to
Speaker 2: ten play drives, So I think. And the other thing
Speaker 2: is it does matter to me every time I hear
Speaker 2: him talk totally focused on football. It's like when Dak
Speaker 2: broke into the league. I didn't love the way through.
Speaker 2: Every time he talked, he said the right stuff. Every
Speaker 2: time they interviewed Jake Jordan loved did this last year
Speaker 2: even when he was struggling. Every time they asked him,
Speaker 2: He's like, I'm going to get there.
Speaker 1: This is ugly.
Speaker 2: It's on me. John, I'm judgmental on that stuff. When
Speaker 2: you well, how do you respond to criticism Jordan loved
Speaker 2: last year. In September, he was still fantastic with those questions.
Speaker 1: I think is full of those guys right now. I mean,
Speaker 1: look at this class, when you just watch these guys
Speaker 1: conduct themselves, when you feel when you think about the hype,
Speaker 1: I mean, for a lot of my life, I felt
Speaker 1: like half a class, you know, with a bunch of
Speaker 1: high bunch of cockey guys, a bunch of guys walking in,
Speaker 1: turning veterans off. It feels like the NFL as a whole.
Speaker 1: I mean, think about the top quarterbacks, the way they
Speaker 1: conduct themselves, the way they act, the way they handle
Speaker 1: themselves in press conferences. It's almost like they're numb to
Speaker 1: it all. They're completely unfazed. And maybe it gets back
Speaker 1: to how popular college football is now, how they've been
Speaker 1: under the spotlight even as a recruit. But you watch
Speaker 1: you know, Jayden played at LSU. I remember I had
Speaker 1: a buddy that still works in the league. Tell me
Speaker 1: he was He was a GM for a little bit,
Speaker 1: and he said he walked in like on the first
Speaker 1: preseason game, and some of his rookies were like almost
Speaker 1: throwing up, they were so nervous, and he went over
Speaker 1: to one and the guy had played like Auburn or Georgia.
Speaker 1: He's like, for the last three years you have played
Speaker 1: in half your games were infinitely more important and had
Speaker 1: more people watching and had more pressure than this game
Speaker 1: you're about to go play in just relaxed. And I
Speaker 1: think you watch a lot of these guys like, yep,
Speaker 1: I played Auburn Alabama game for three straight years, or
Speaker 1: I played against you know, I played against Ohio State
Speaker 1: every year when twenty five million people were watching, and
Speaker 1: it felt like they were in the big leagues. And
Speaker 1: I wonder if a lot of these guys benefit with
Speaker 1: the college football has always been big, but it really
Speaker 1: felt big, especially from the quarterback standpoint, these last couple
Speaker 1: of years. And these guys are walking in pretty seamlessly.
Speaker 1: You know, well, it's a pretty easy transition so far
Speaker 1: for the crew.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, I mean bow Nicks and Pennix. Those guys
Speaker 2: played all their games were sold out national TV. So
Speaker 2: usually a PAC twelve quarterback comes out. He played in
Speaker 2: some Arizona stadiums, but bow Nicks and Pennix every time
Speaker 2: they met Husky Stadium or Eugene How's national television. Those
Speaker 2: were high stakes, high pressure game. SEC games are all
Speaker 2: bit especially at LSU.
Speaker 1: Hey, what's up everybody? John Middlecoff here for the Three
Speaker 1: and Out podcasts. The NFL season is right around the corner.
Speaker 1: And if you want some of the best football content
Speaker 1: out there, I got you covered training camp, through the preseason,
Speaker 1: throughout the entire season. Subscribe and follow the Three and
Speaker 1: Out podcast with me John Middlecock on Apple, Spotify, wherever
Speaker 1: you listen to your podcast.
Speaker 2: I want to talk about San Francisco, the forty nine Ers.
Speaker 2: So I think I told you. I was told by
Speaker 2: a player I trust two weeks ago I was going
Speaker 2: to be a Niner. He's a I wouldn't say, I
Speaker 2: don't know what the word is. He's young, he's a kid,
Speaker 2: he's emotional, he's a receiver. And so he had told
Speaker 2: a friend of mine, I'm getting this thing done. Then
Speaker 2: something went sideways. He got pissed off, the Niners got
Speaker 2: pissed off at his So my take was my source
Speaker 2: was probably right. I got pissed off, the Niners got upset,
Speaker 2: and it just blew up. Now it appears they've circled back.
Speaker 2: Is that what you're hearing?
Speaker 1: I think the Niners drew a line in the sand,
Speaker 1: said you want to dance, let's dance. They had two
Speaker 1: trades ready to go, with contracts ready for him, and
Speaker 1: he got cold feet slash. I don't want to play there,
Speaker 1: which I guess is his prerogative. But it's like, you
Speaker 1: demand to trade thirty one. Teams can't trade for you.
Speaker 1: We have to get fair value. The Amari Cooper in
Speaker 1: a second round pick. That's a good deal. Amari Cooper's
Speaker 1: pretty productive player. The Niners like, you go to Cleveland.
Speaker 1: They have twenty eight million dollars. And then he says no.
Speaker 1: So to me, it feels like a guy who's gotten
Speaker 1: a little over his skis. He does he really want
Speaker 1: to leave San Francisco. Of course, not because you're a
Speaker 1: star with the Niners. And he's a West Coast guy,
Speaker 1: grew up in Reno when high school in Sack, played
Speaker 1: at Arizona State, has become a well known name. But
Speaker 1: got so emotional by this number. And let's face it,
Speaker 1: the Niners drive a hard bargain. They had a number
Speaker 1: and they didn't flinch because also, you're not a free agent.
Speaker 1: We don't have to trade you anywhere. I want to
Speaker 1: go to the Steelers well, yeah, they could get In theory,
Speaker 1: I guess they could give you our their first round pick,
Speaker 1: But what good does that do us Week one against
Speaker 1: the Jets. That's that's that's a player that does not
Speaker 1: exist for another eight months. First round picks or having
Speaker 1: two of them are incredible in February, March, and April.
Speaker 1: They do good teams, no good during the season. That's why,
Speaker 1: ideally you make that trade before the combine. Well guess
Speaker 1: what the Niners probably tried. No one was offering that
Speaker 1: at the time. Why great wide receiver draft? Why am
Speaker 1: I going to trade you my first round pick? When
Speaker 1: I get a wide receiver is going to start at
Speaker 1: a number. Instead of paying a guy twenty eight million,
Speaker 1: I get the ideally or in the perfect world, the
Speaker 1: similar player for four right, just basic economics, And I
Speaker 1: think he overplayed his hand. And the Niners are like, listen,
Speaker 1: we had these deals, they were the ones we'd accept.
Speaker 1: Those are the teams. Everyone knows you're on the block.
Speaker 1: No one else is coling, no one else has the money.
Speaker 1: You want to go to the Steelers, they have nothing
Speaker 1: to give us back. This has to be it takes
Speaker 1: two to tango here. There's two sides, and we don't
Speaker 1: want their draft picks. They're not giving us TJ. Watt,
Speaker 1: so that ain't happening. Here's our number. What are you
Speaker 1: gonna do? Not play? We want to give you a contract.
Speaker 1: No One feels bad for him, and he's emotional. I
Speaker 1: can't imagine being twenty four, twenty five, twenty six, have
Speaker 1: this money, like the number that you think you're His
Speaker 1: value on their team is a lot different than some
Speaker 1: of these guys making twenty nine dollars. They don't play
Speaker 1: like that, and I just think they're kind of at
Speaker 1: a crossroads. But he does. I guess he has the leverage,
Speaker 1: just not practice. He can demand a trade all he wants,
Speaker 1: but if John and Kyle don't want to trade him,
Speaker 1: he's not getting traded. Ideally, I think they want to
Speaker 1: avoid this, right, They don't want this, but they're not
Speaker 1: just gonna give them away because that's the easy thing
Speaker 1: to do. So he's kind of stuck, and it's they're
Speaker 1: pissed off. I know that obviously he's he's well established
Speaker 1: that he's mad. They're mad. And this is kind of
Speaker 1: a joke now because at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: Bosa was gonna kind of get over on him. He
Speaker 1: had all the leverage, he's the best player, he was
Speaker 1: going to get a ton. They go, listen, you're really good,
Speaker 1: but DJ Moore has been a lot better than you.
Speaker 1: For six years playing with Coward and middle Cooff as
Speaker 1: his quarterback, You've had productive quarterbacks and you're never going
Speaker 1: to catch more Navy balls here. So the ROI and
Speaker 1: R investment, if we give you thirty million dollars is
Speaker 1: kind of a doesn't make a lot of sense. And
Speaker 1: that's where I think they're kind of stuck looking at
Speaker 1: each other. I still believe he's going to end up
Speaker 1: on the Niners, but I think he might be a
Speaker 1: first player in NFL history who sounds like a four year,
Speaker 1: one hundred million dollar deal and is mad at the
Speaker 1: dais when he gives his press conference, Well get ready
Speaker 1: for that.
Speaker 2: Well there's also a reality that receivers in this league
Speaker 2: not named Jefferson, Chase, Davante Adams. This league is furnished
Speaker 2: about thirty receivers a year out of college, and about
Speaker 2: ten are productive immediately. But every other team, I mean,
Speaker 2: if you go to the last decade, wide receivers are
Speaker 2: walking into this league out of college guys like Puka Nakua,
Speaker 2: Tank Dell, mid round guys, and you're like, shit, that
Speaker 2: that guy's a one. That guy's not even a two,
Speaker 2: he's a one. So the reality is the one position
Speaker 2: that is literally expanding, you know, because there's a lot
Speaker 2: of families outside of a Texas that aren't playing as
Speaker 2: much football. There's not as many high school football players
Speaker 2: today is ten years ago. There's not Moms are like
Speaker 2: a lot of moms Southern California, LA. Forget it. You're
Speaker 2: an outcast if you let your kid by high school football,
Speaker 2: especially if you're west of the four H five Freeway,
Speaker 2: like all the you know, all the high end fallutin
Speaker 2: you know, coastal towns so Malibu, Yeah, Hermosa, Manhattan Beach
Speaker 2: in Brentwood, Plaia. There does not. So my take is,
Speaker 2: but if you start looking at that position, there's few.
Speaker 2: They were good running backs. You get about one good
Speaker 2: left tackle a year, maybe two one star quarterback, maybe
Speaker 2: two serviceable ones. I could argue if I went back
Speaker 2: and looked in the last decade, do we have eight
Speaker 2: receivers a year that come in here and stick. So
Speaker 2: it is hard unless you're like very top of the market,
Speaker 2: and by the way, if you're very top of the market,
Speaker 2: it's also discomforting. These guys now make thirty million dollars.
Speaker 2: Some gms are like, I mean, you better be able
Speaker 2: to do that on the rookie contract. You can't pay
Speaker 2: your quarterback and a receiver thirty large like unless he's
Speaker 2: Jamar Chase. So I think it's one of these situations
Speaker 2: where they just if Trent Williams was in year three
Speaker 2: in his career and they had two more years not
Speaker 2: to pay him, I think you could be willing to
Speaker 2: push it. They can't win the Super Bowl in my
Speaker 2: opinion without Trent Williams. That's that's the roadblock here too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think like you hit it on the supply
Speaker 1: and demand. Brandon a Yuk was drafted the end of
Speaker 1: the first round twenty seven. Debo who carried them to
Speaker 1: the NFC Amster three years was a second round pick.
Speaker 1: I watched today. I had the Colts game on in
Speaker 1: the background and the kid from Texas is make him plays.
Speaker 1: He's a second round pick. So, like you said, every
Speaker 1: single year, obviously, first rounders, second, third, and fourth rounders
Speaker 1: are making plays all season long at that position. They
Speaker 1: cost a million dollars. If this was a real estate deal,
Speaker 1: it would have been over weeks ago. The Niners, you
Speaker 1: know this. They want two million. Niners are offering one
Speaker 1: point six. We ain't budget you're not budgeting. We go
Speaker 1: our separate ways. And that's kind of what's happened, except
Speaker 1: he's stuck on their team because he's under contract and
Speaker 1: their trump card is your fifth year options this year,
Speaker 1: and we have two franchise tags. We want to make
Speaker 1: this work, but this is our number. You're not a
Speaker 1: free agent. You are not a free agent, so you
Speaker 1: can sit out to win the season. You're gonna pass
Speaker 1: up fourteen million dollars. That's like he acts, and I
Speaker 1: think his side, they think they got a bunch of leverage.
Speaker 1: There aren't a bunch of teams with a lot to
Speaker 1: give back. There was one, the Browns. The Niners like
Speaker 1: that offer Amari Cooper in the second round pick, and
Speaker 1: then he's like, no, well, you can't ask for a trade.
Speaker 1: This is in the NBA. You're not gonna dictate all
Speaker 1: the terms here. And I think that's what's made him
Speaker 1: mad and the forty Niners mat because he won't play
Speaker 1: ball like we're offering you a ton of money. You're
Speaker 1: immediately gonna be the highest paid player on a highly
Speaker 1: paid team. So yeah, DJ Morris, these guys make more,
Speaker 1: They do more for their team in terms of production.
Speaker 1: That's never gonna Kyle Shanahan's not gonna start playing like
Speaker 1: Andy Reid, right, That's not how they're gonna play. They're
Speaker 1: gonna run the ball. I think in a perfect world,
Speaker 1: party has like twenty six past attempts a game. That's
Speaker 1: what they're shooting for. They're not trying to play like
Speaker 1: forty three times. He's like, well, I could be a
Speaker 1: star receiver. Well, on this team, you're willing to pay you,
Speaker 1: and you're gonna thrive and you can make a ton
Speaker 1: off This is the forty nine Ers are top two
Speaker 1: or three brand in the league. He makes a ton
Speaker 1: off the field.
Speaker 2: I do wonder because of the first round receiver the
Speaker 2: Niners picked, if they do sign Iuk, who is a
Speaker 2: deep threat, That's not what Deebo does.
Speaker 1: He's yack.
Speaker 2: He's yards after the catch, which Kittle is. I do
Speaker 2: wonder when they drafted two receivers. Both can play the slot.
Speaker 1: They're both hurt especially the problem there all the time them.
Speaker 2: I can see this team moving off some of their
Speaker 2: guys like a Ligne, not Warner, but Greenlaw. I think
Speaker 2: they're getting to a point with Kittle. You know, Travis Kelcey.
Speaker 2: Before the playoffs, we were like, I don't know, ten surgeries,
Speaker 2: I don't know. Then he was great in the playoffs.
Speaker 2: But I do think Kittle, they're going to have to
Speaker 2: move off some contracts here. And I kind of look
Speaker 2: at the Kittle thing. I look at the debo thing,
Speaker 2: because there's they're guys that play, and I love both,
Speaker 2: and they feel like they're DNA that they're they're really
Speaker 2: they feel like the Niners. But if you pay Ayuk,
Speaker 2: it does change things because he's a legitimate deep threat,
Speaker 2: and I think it changes the personality of your team
Speaker 2: a little bit. If you're paying him twenty five John,
Speaker 2: I'm throwing the ball to him.
Speaker 1: Part of why I think the Amari Cooper won. I
Speaker 1: think they thought it could be a plug and play
Speaker 1: transition between the two players. His contracts also up at
Speaker 1: the end of this season, so they get to reset
Speaker 1: that number. It just disappears on them, So they like
Speaker 1: the economic flexibility of that when because it's not just
Speaker 1: we talked about the year average. You put seventy eighty
Speaker 1: guaranteed to this guy. You are in bed with him
Speaker 1: now for the next three or four years, on top
Speaker 1: of haying party, on top of having to figure out
Speaker 1: your left tackle situation. Trent's getting older. If George were
Speaker 1: to fall off a cliff, you need a tight end.
Speaker 1: He's very important in this offense. Fred's got a lot
Speaker 1: of wear and tear. Greenlaw has a torn achilles. You
Speaker 1: just got big picture question marks. And when you go
Speaker 1: all in on a player, you go, is he a
Speaker 1: top eight wide receiver in the league. Well, if you
Speaker 1: even have to question that, should you be breaking them
Speaker 1: off a massive contract. The problem is they would trade him,
Speaker 1: but all these teams don't want to trade for him
Speaker 1: because they don't want to meet his demands either. So
Speaker 1: that's where they're kind of stuck in this weird spot.
Speaker 1: And let's face a colin, I would say they have
Speaker 1: do they have the most drama going on? I mean
Speaker 1: they got this IUX situation that is not figured out.
Speaker 1: Trent Williams a holdout they have. They just had to
Speaker 1: cancel their their joint practices they were supposed to with
Speaker 1: the Saints because they have to called Dennis Allen's like,
Speaker 1: we got too many injuries. It's then God is August eleventh.
Speaker 1: But they got a lot going on.
Speaker 2: No, And I said this at the end of the season.
Speaker 2: I said, I think they've peaked. That doesn't That's not
Speaker 2: bad because their peak is Super Bowl. But I do
Speaker 2: feel like the Lions are a younger version of the Niners,
Speaker 2: where they've got like six guys, you know, pene Sewel,
Speaker 2: amar On, Saint Bount, Gibbs, Goff, Hutchison, the center, the
Speaker 2: tight end. I kind of feel like when I'm watching
Speaker 2: the Lions, they're the Niners four years ago and in
Speaker 2: Detroit's gonna have this four year run and they're not
Speaker 2: you know, they're not paying all of their guys yet.
Speaker 2: But the Lions, like the Niners are, are really physical.
Speaker 2: It's the Dan Campbell thing. It's a different physical, different style,
Speaker 2: but it's like they're gonna punish you.
Speaker 1: So I kind of.
Speaker 2: Feel like what we've seen of the Niners is you're
Speaker 2: gonna start seeing guys breakdown. And I really do believe
Speaker 2: Philly and Detroit, but mostly Detroit feels like the next
Speaker 2: Niners with better quarterback play or at least more talented quarterback.
Speaker 1: I think where the Niners would push back go we
Speaker 1: got a better coach than them all, and we know
Speaker 1: how important trait is in the NFL, and that does
Speaker 1: their coaches like McVeigh liking. I mean, they got an
Speaker 1: elite coach. So when you have that, you can overcome
Speaker 1: an injury here and there that other teams when they
Speaker 1: got more of the raw ross CEO head coached. They
Speaker 1: asked Kyle yesterday. One of Kubiak's kids is on his staff.
Speaker 1: He let him call place and Kyle said it was
Speaker 1: the most bored he'd ever been in the game. I
Speaker 1: didn't even know what's new with my hands. I started
Speaker 1: thinking a lot. It's one like obviously John Harbaugh, Jim Harbaugh,
Speaker 1: Belichick for a long time have mastered the CEO approach.
Speaker 1: But some of these coaches that are being they're not
Speaker 1: doing that much more than mir or you on the
Speaker 1: couch or a fan. I mean, seriously, like Kyle said,
Speaker 1: I called a couple of times out, I wasn't doing anything.
Speaker 1: I wasn't doing anything. And that's the thing with Philly,
Speaker 1: right that article that came out last week. You just
Speaker 1: wonder they have so much talent, can they get by.
Speaker 1: I think their coordinators are good, but if things get weird,
Speaker 1: if you question, people are always going to disagree with
Speaker 1: a boss, with a coach. We're humans. When I question
Speaker 1: or I lose respect for you because I don't think
Speaker 1: you have the knowledge. I don't know if you ever
Speaker 1: come back from that. In a professional setting, if there's
Speaker 1: a superior and I think this guy is incapable of
Speaker 1: either helping me out or knowing what he's doing, that
Speaker 1: doesn't change because it's not a twelve year old. You
Speaker 1: don't all of a sudden gain that ability at forty
Speaker 1: eight or fifty four like you kind of have to
Speaker 1: have it. That's why you're in that position. And when
Speaker 1: people under you, especially in highly competitive areas like Wall
Speaker 1: Street or what we do, or definitely football. If Jalen
Speaker 1: Hurts questions his football acumen, can you imagine a quarterback
Speaker 1: for the top coaches questioning like I don't think Andy
Speaker 1: knows this coverage at all, or someone with Belichick. That's
Speaker 1: that'd be unheard of, And that's maybe they can overcome
Speaker 1: just because they have so much talent. But that's something
Speaker 1: to keep in the back pocket if things go south
Speaker 1: or they had a little adversity that'll that'll come back
Speaker 1: to roost, won't it. Well.
Speaker 2: Go to his opening press conference, he was literally he
Speaker 2: was word salid. He was terrified.
Speaker 1: It was Tom sue two point zero.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, like Jim Tom Suell. It's the worst
Speaker 2: press conference I've ever seen. Nick siri on his second
Speaker 2: and I defended Dan Campbell's I said Dan was over
Speaker 2: the top, but he had a plan and he's delivered
Speaker 2: on the plan. They bite knee caps. I mean, remember
Speaker 2: the first two years when they weren't winning, John, they
Speaker 2: weren't winning. I mean, their defense was the worst in
Speaker 2: the league. They played so effing hard. They played a
Speaker 2: game against Baltimore. I remember one watching and thinking, I
Speaker 2: don't have four guys that start for the Ravens, and
Speaker 2: they were just back and forth. So you can say
Speaker 2: what you'll know at Campbell and I was like, this
Speaker 2: is cheesy. But they are exactly what he promised they
Speaker 2: would be at the podium opening presser, like he said,
Speaker 2: We're going to be relentless. That's exactly what they are.
Speaker 2: Even with Golf who's a finesse player, they're pretty relentless team.
Speaker 2: Siriani was just lost. Tom Sula was embarrassing. And at
Speaker 2: the end, now I have a story that comes out
Speaker 2: multiple sources from somebody I respect at ESPN says, yeah,
Speaker 2: they don't really respect him. I'm with you on that.
Speaker 2: I mean, I've been very lucky in my life. I've
Speaker 2: had good bosses. I've had one that you know, we
Speaker 2: had a nickname for him. He just didn't know what
Speaker 2: he was doing. And though I liked him, I never
Speaker 2: looked at him the same way. I just if he
Speaker 2: came down the hall, good guy, let's get a coffee.
Speaker 2: Wasn't somebody I respected? So to your point, and remember,
Speaker 2: Jalen Hurts has had Nick Saban and Lincoln Riley, So
Speaker 2: those those are the voices he has heard in his life.
Speaker 2: And I don't know it was Sark the offensive coordinator
Speaker 2: when he was at Alabama. I forget who it was,
Speaker 2: but it was somebody like kippin her Sark. Wasn't that somebody?
Speaker 1: It would have been one of the two. They definitely overlapt.
Speaker 2: Okay, Okay, so you're talking about high and luxury offensive coordinator.
Speaker 1: Talk ran da Ball was there one year, two okay, okay,
Speaker 1: so now now three of them now okay, So you're
Speaker 1: let's just say we go.
Speaker 2: You know, Sarker, Dable, Lincoln, Shane Steichen. Now he's got
Speaker 2: none of them, and it's Nick Sirianni. So who's he
Speaker 2: competing with? Again, It'd be one thing if he had
Speaker 2: bad coordinators. Nick Sirianni would feel like a football coach.
Speaker 2: Lincoln Riley, Shane Steichen. And now it's Sirianni's voice. So
Speaker 2: I think Jalen may be going you start looking around
Speaker 2: in your life, my life, you have one or two
Speaker 2: great bosses, you know, you spot the guys that aren't
Speaker 2: great real quick.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean when I worked in radio, Jason Barrett,
Speaker 1: who you've known for a long time, he left and
Speaker 1: we hired a new guy and he was just a
Speaker 1: complete buffoon and it was a disaster and the place
Speaker 1: almost went under. But when you don't respect someone who
Speaker 1: you have to listen to, and it's no different as
Speaker 1: a player, like a lot of people listening that they
Speaker 1: have a boss when you were you're going to disagree.
Speaker 1: That's healthy. There's no growth at a little confrontation. But
Speaker 1: when I think you know nothing or at the level
Speaker 1: in which I'm accustomed to, it's hard to function. So
Speaker 1: when that part of that article that he called wink Martindale,
Speaker 1: I think a lot of it. And my first thought
Speaker 1: was like, God, it's kind of a go getter, and
Speaker 1: then you started thinking about I think he just lost.
Speaker 1: He's like, who do I even talk to? Right? I
Speaker 1: just need to talk to someone who might give me
Speaker 1: some decent advice here of some schematic help. And that's
Speaker 1: what I wonder with Siriani. And listen, the Eagles do
Speaker 1: a couple of things really well. One they just acquire
Speaker 1: good players, and two, their owner will spend a lot.
Speaker 1: Their two coordinators are making and combined, I've heard a
Speaker 1: lot of money. I mean, Vic Fangil might be the
Speaker 1: highest Bay defensive coordinator in the league, and Kellen Moore's
Speaker 1: numbers closer to five million than it is one. So
Speaker 1: they're paying their two They're paying their two coordinators a
Speaker 1: lot of coin. But those guys they're gonna run it right,
Speaker 1: Sire Howani even in that article is like, get away
Speaker 1: from Kellen and the quarterbacks. Well, he's an offensive guy.
Speaker 1: How many offensive coaches? That's why I have so much
Speaker 1: respect for Lafloor. What he did with Rogers was impressive,
Speaker 1: but it was easy to go with Rogers great players,
Speaker 1: and what he did with Jordan love Is makes you
Speaker 1: like you're gonna get contract extensions for a long time. Right.
Speaker 1: Mcveigh's worked with several quarterbacks. Kyle's worked with a ton
Speaker 1: of quarterbacks, and he can coach any quarterback. I'm watching
Speaker 1: this guy. I thought he's an offensive guy, but the
Speaker 1: quarterback doesn't even like him. And by all accounts he
Speaker 1: can be clearly Jalen's a little weird, little quirky, but
Speaker 1: he's clearly like a good guy and wants to pluy
Speaker 1: and like is an all about football guy, and he
Speaker 1: thinks your weakness is I would say the most thing
Speaker 1: for a coach schematics. In the NFL, we're college recruiting.
Speaker 1: The Jimmy's and the Joe's scheme matters. But if I
Speaker 1: have the more talent, like I'm just gonna boat race
Speaker 1: ninety percent of the teams, I'm gonna play football Monday
Speaker 1: through Saturday. In the NFL is a thinking man sport.
Speaker 1: It's about trying to outthink, outplay out chest maneuver you.
Speaker 1: It's why Urban Meyer, who's used to recruiting and everything,
Speaker 1: got to it was just it wasn't this thing. Jim
Speaker 1: Harbaugh would be the first to tell you, like, I'm
Speaker 1: very dependent on great I can do the leadership, I
Speaker 1: can do the toughness, but scheme's not his thing, but
Speaker 1: he hires great coaches because scheme in the NFL, it's
Speaker 1: it's just working fifteen eighteen hours a day Monday through Saturday,
Speaker 1: getting ready for Sunday. And I don't know what Siriani doing. Honestly,
Speaker 1: I don't know the answer, like tangibly, like you see
Speaker 1: Dan Campbell, you see what he's doing. You feel his team,
Speaker 1: John Harbaugh his whole career, you feel it, even if
Speaker 1: he's not calling on inside the ball. But now I
Speaker 1: question his is, like I what's going on here? They
Speaker 1: were kind of stuck because it was because people go
Speaker 1: back to two years ago, could you fire him for
Speaker 1: Shane Stike? And that would have been a pretty unprecedented move,
Speaker 1: right going to the Super Bowl firing the coach for
Speaker 1: the other guy. Clearly today they wish they could have,
Speaker 1: but that it would have been difficult. And then last
Speaker 1: year they were definitely sniffing around, but they were kind
Speaker 1: of stuck. And this goes back to Luckily their owner's
Speaker 1: got a lot of money and willing to pay a
Speaker 1: lot for coordinators.
Speaker 2: Listen, Tom Tellskill told me when Shane Steichen was in
Speaker 2: the building with the Chargers and Anthony Lynn was struggling,
Speaker 2: like I asked him and he said, Amen, that guy's
Speaker 2: a rock star. But you, to your point, Anthony Lynn was.
Speaker 1: A nice guy.
Speaker 2: You got to give him a shot, Stike and gets
Speaker 2: an upgrade. What you propose, I think happens a lot
Speaker 2: where you bring in a coordinator, you don't really love
Speaker 2: the coach, but you're not ready to dump him, and
Speaker 2: you sit there for a year and the GM and
Speaker 2: the owner. The GM is telling the owner the smarter
Speaker 2: coach is the coordinator, but get rid of this guy yet.
Speaker 2: So I think what you're proposing, I think those conversations
Speaker 2: happen once a year somewhere in this league.
Speaker 1: Well, don't don't mean this guy earned a little street
Speaker 1: cred last year because he's taken a lot of shit,
Speaker 1: rightfully so. But Mike McCarthy goes all take over the
Speaker 1: play calling and obviously didn't. The season didn't end well,
Speaker 1: but there's no disputing that the season went really well
Speaker 1: as an offensive play caller, and clearly McCarthy's winning a
Speaker 1: bunch of games, Like, I don't know how this season
Speaker 1: is gonna go. You would probably lean, if you're a
Speaker 1: betting man, Mike McCarthy will not be the coach after
Speaker 1: the season just because are they going to make the
Speaker 1: NFC Championship game. But he's kind of proven that he's
Speaker 1: more than capable as an offensive play caller. Yeah, leader,
Speaker 1: like he's he's a real NFL coach.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, let's let's be honest. Cooper Rush went
Speaker 2: like five and one, he's won.
Speaker 1: It looked pretty good today.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean so uh Trey Lance for I mean
Speaker 2: Trey Lance and San Francisco didn't work.
Speaker 1: He's okay, you know little I'm not putting that one
Speaker 1: on Mike. Yeah yeah.
Speaker 2: But I mean in the end, you can go look
Speaker 2: at virtually every quarter that has played with Mike McCarthy
Speaker 2: in his career, starters or backups. You know, Dalton was washed,
Speaker 2: but I would side to that. Everybody is. I always
Speaker 2: look at this. Everybody kind of played there, Shane Steichen.
Speaker 2: Every quarterbacks played their best. Well, the same thing for
Speaker 2: Mike McCarthy. He got you know that he had, didn't
Speaker 2: he get thirteen and three out of five one of
Speaker 2: those years was seven year as a coach.
Speaker 1: So my thing, my thing is if this let's say
Speaker 1: they go nine to eight and they're the seventeen and
Speaker 1: they lose a while, whatever, is he not worth getting
Speaker 1: a job somewhere else if he is fired? I mean,
Speaker 1: look at half these coaches in the league, like I
Speaker 1: actually think Mike McCarthy has more than rebuilt his equity
Speaker 1: in his name and honestly had pretty impressive little run
Speaker 1: here in Dallas. Well.
Speaker 2: Also the advantage McCarthy has, let's say he wins ten
Speaker 2: to eleven, it certainly feaes them. I think they're a
Speaker 2: ten win team, matter twelve team. He walks out of there,
Speaker 2: he can say in closed doors, Jesus, it's a shit
Speaker 2: show with the owner, and Dak is what he is.
Speaker 2: And I'm winning twelve games. Okay, you may not be
Speaker 2: the coach on the market, you're one of seven. And
Speaker 2: again McCarthy is marccarthy's classic. And you see this all
Speaker 2: the time. We're somebody successful has a ring. It can
Speaker 2: be in anything, but I mean, you know, Frank Vogel
Speaker 2: has a ring. No, it's it is what he took
Speaker 2: an Indiana team with Roy Hibbert, who I love by
Speaker 2: the way. Personally that team didn't have any offense is
Speaker 2: Paul George, Roy Hibbert and guys George Hill. I think
Speaker 2: it played on that team and they gave the heatles
Speaker 2: every year. Problems those series were. I mean, Lebron struggled
Speaker 2: put Hibbert by the ten. Frank Vogel goes to Los Angeles.
Speaker 2: I just saw Frank at dinner the other night in town.
Speaker 2: Frank Vogels won a lot of basketball games in this league,
Speaker 2: but it's the NBA. They all get fired if they're
Speaker 2: not called Steve Kerr, s Poulter or Greg Popovich. So
Speaker 2: I think McCarthy's one of those guys where you know
Speaker 2: he can coach he needs. There's certain things he does
Speaker 2: very very well. He comes across, you know a little
Speaker 2: bit like you know, he looks outdated. He talks like
Speaker 2: he's outdated. I mean he does. But to his credit,
Speaker 2: he is on the right side of the ball, and
Speaker 2: he wins about eleven games a year in his career.
Speaker 1: So say all plays and work with a quarterback and
Speaker 1: he can lead. I mean, I think he's bringing a
Speaker 1: lot to the table.
Speaker 2: So do I Again, he may not be If he
Speaker 2: may not be the like hardball. This year was the
Speaker 2: top choice. He'll probably never be the top choice. But
Speaker 2: if he's my number three pitcher, you can do worse
Speaker 2: than Mike McCarthy.
Speaker 1: Well, if you flip flop coaches. If I told you
Speaker 1: Sirianni was the head coach of the Cowboys and McCarthy
Speaker 1: was the head coach of the Eagles, every single human
Speaker 1: alive would pick the Eagles to win the division and
Speaker 1: no one alive would pick the Cowboys and make the playoffs.
Speaker 1: Great point.
Speaker 2: That's a great point, and we'll end it there. John Middlecuff,
Speaker 2: former NFL Scout three and out boy, this this felt
Speaker 2: like last season.
Speaker 1: That was fun.
Speaker 2: That frickin flew What do we do? We did over
Speaker 2: an hour?
Speaker 1: That flew baby back. Good see anybody you two calling,
Speaker 1: have good week.
Speaker 2: The volume. Thanks so much for listening. If you've enjoyed
Speaker 2: the podcast, take a moment, rate and review