WEBVTT - Avoiding Nuclear Destruction.  Mike Lyons talks to Armstrong & Getty

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<v Speaker 1>mata dot com slash doing our part. As we were

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<v Speaker 1>talking about various times throughout the show, if you're really

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<v Speaker 1>going to evaluate the news of the day, the Colin

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<v Speaker 1>trial doesn't even finish in the top three, behind North

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<v Speaker 1>Korea nukes and India Pakistan. I would agree, and Mike Lyons,

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<v Speaker 1>longtime CBS News military analysts, joins us now to talk

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<v Speaker 1>about those two nuclear situations. Mike, how are you, sir?

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you? Why don't we begin with the I almost

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<v Speaker 1>said tensions. They're shooting at each other, the violence between

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<v Speaker 1>in Indian Pakistan and what it all means. Yeah, it's

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<v Speaker 1>kind of back to the future. This is a country

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<v Speaker 1>that they fight over, this region called Kashmir to the

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<v Speaker 1>north of India, to the east of Pakistan, and since

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<v Speaker 1>uh India had its independence it's ninety seven, as well

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<v Speaker 1>as when Pakistan was established, it's been an area that

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<v Speaker 1>both countries have tried to take late claim over and

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<v Speaker 1>there've been three or four skirmishers there before. Each time, though,

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<v Speaker 1>Pakistan comes out on the losing side, and in some

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<v Speaker 1>cases there are you know, clearly the loser, and so

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<v Speaker 1>they lose the nationalists like pride over that and then

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<v Speaker 1>in this case, now that's why with Pakistan shooting down

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<v Speaker 1>Indian aircraft and capturing an Indian pilot, it's like they

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<v Speaker 1>did um. They appear to be now, you know, trying

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<v Speaker 1>to up their game right now, and it's down to

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<v Speaker 1>these two leaders as to whether or not where the

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<v Speaker 1>situation goes from here. Yeah, I was. I somehow I

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<v Speaker 1>got sucked into a Twitter feed. I just started following

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<v Speaker 1>different people and it was it was people who live

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<v Speaker 1>in Indian Pakistan but tweeting English. I guessed, and man,

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<v Speaker 1>there's a lot of just regular people that were really

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<v Speaker 1>proud of their country and wanted to go to battle.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know, I don't know how many people feel

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<v Speaker 1>that way, but it was it was a little it

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<v Speaker 1>was a little troubling. Yeah, exactly. And that's because again,

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<v Speaker 1>I guess the last one nine significant conflict, the Pakistani's

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<v Speaker 1>loss about four thousand, five thousand soldiers and the border

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<v Speaker 1>skirmers that took place there go back to seventy one.

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<v Speaker 1>Another one took place over a few days um and

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<v Speaker 1>again in each In each case um, Pakistan was lost

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<v Speaker 1>in some cases ground. In nineteen seventy one, there was

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<v Speaker 1>that war with Bangladesh. So that's on the eastern part

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<v Speaker 1>of India. When they when they divided up the countries

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<v Speaker 1>and after the Second World War, they left a part

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<v Speaker 1>of Pakistan that was basically through India to the to

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<v Speaker 1>the right, let's say, to the east of India called

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<v Speaker 1>East Pakistan. That's not called Bangladesh. There's Harrison had a

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<v Speaker 1>concert for the Starvation of the Children back in the

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<v Speaker 1>seventies about it. Anyway, that civil war took place, it

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<v Speaker 1>didn't make a lot of sense to have East Pakistan

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<v Speaker 1>with India right in the middle of it. They won

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<v Speaker 1>their independence and that and and again in each time

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<v Speaker 1>the Pakistan military software defeat. I was heartened to see

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<v Speaker 1>that the Prime Minister of Pakistan, who's a TV celebrity,

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<v Speaker 1>how odd is that in a former athlete, um that

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<v Speaker 1>he returned the Indian pilot to India or or said

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<v Speaker 1>he was going to That obviously is a guy saying

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<v Speaker 1>let's not get crazy here, right. I think in both

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<v Speaker 1>cases both Um, you've got the the Indian Prime minister

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<v Speaker 1>as well Modi. They're populoust people. They're both coming up

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<v Speaker 1>for election. Uh. I don't want to say they're you know,

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<v Speaker 1>Donald Trump like, but they're They're not necessarily these career politicians.

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<v Speaker 1>They're new in the space here. They they you know,

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<v Speaker 1>have tapped the will the people, so to speak. And

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<v Speaker 1>in both cases, if hubrisk gets out in front, both

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<v Speaker 1>sides now have nuclear capability that clearly could destroy you know,

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<v Speaker 1>each other within us the time of flight, given the

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<v Speaker 1>fact they have weapons. In India is a little more

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<v Speaker 1>complex nuclear program. They literally have a triad. They can

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<v Speaker 1>deliver nukes from air land and see Pakistan pretty much air,

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<v Speaker 1>some intermediate missiles mostly artillery based, nothing from the sea.

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<v Speaker 1>But again the bottom line is, because they're neighboring at

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<v Speaker 1>each other, you'd have clearly mutually short destruction. Something started.

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<v Speaker 1>But your guess is cooling down rather than ramping up

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<v Speaker 1>right and like anything else, You've got to find a

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<v Speaker 1>way that both sides can save face in order for

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<v Speaker 1>that to happen. Uh, maybe just the fact that the

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<v Speaker 1>Pakistanis were able to shoot down the two Indian aircraft

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<v Speaker 1>and the fact that they capture them, and maybe that's

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<v Speaker 1>that's gonna be the win that they're gonna take again,

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<v Speaker 1>they haven't had one in about twenty years, and maybe

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<v Speaker 1>that that will be good enough for them, and the

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<v Speaker 1>Indians will take forth the fact that you know that,

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<v Speaker 1>the fact they didn't start a nuclear war with their

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<v Speaker 1>neighbor over a reason that they've been fighting over for

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<v Speaker 1>the last seventy eight years. Hey, just for fun, And

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<v Speaker 1>that's not the right term at all. If if Indian

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<v Speaker 1>Pakistan did get into a war, would we stay out

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<v Speaker 1>of it? Take a side? How would that turn out?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh no, No, we'd have to stay are clear out

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<v Speaker 1>of it. I mean it's it's nothing we could do

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<v Speaker 1>on any level. I don't know. I mean, we've got

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<v Speaker 1>no kind of treaties with either side. We'd would be

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<v Speaker 1>in the sidelines watching them destroy each other. I was

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<v Speaker 1>just gonna put it. We're kind of wearing the striped

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<v Speaker 1>shirt at this point, right, We're not teasing sides were saying, hey,

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<v Speaker 1>everybody cool, right, and you see the beer from the

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<v Speaker 1>bleachers being thrown right now. The fact that there's no

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<v Speaker 1>US leadership in the world and that's why this is happening,

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<v Speaker 1>that that's just nonsense. I mean that these are countries

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<v Speaker 1>that have got to get along. They've got they've got

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<v Speaker 1>a border, they gotta figure out what I'm gonna put up,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, and they've got walls between these two countries.

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<v Speaker 1>I guarantee it. Um. So that's not about US leadership

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<v Speaker 1>about yeah, I don't I don't want to. I don't

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<v Speaker 1>want to get off on a tangent and take up

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<v Speaker 1>your time. But but the idea that a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>people have, especially a lot of intellectuals have, that even

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<v Speaker 1>two countries that don't get along, it's our fault. It's

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<v Speaker 1>just crazy. Yeah, no kidding, that's I've missed that somehow.

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<v Speaker 1>I've been kind of busy less day. I'm kind of

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<v Speaker 1>glad I missed it. Mike Lions, CBS News military analyst

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<v Speaker 1>is on the line. All right, Mike, let's go ahead

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<v Speaker 1>and talk about the non deal in North Korea. What's

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<v Speaker 1>your take on the sum of itself and and both

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<v Speaker 1>parties walking away, Yeah, all good. Unfortunately, what they had

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<v Speaker 1>agreed on prior to this meeting looks like that that

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<v Speaker 1>didn't even happen at the summit. Even if they got

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<v Speaker 1>a um end of the Korean conflict, that would have

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<v Speaker 1>been at least moving the process forward. I think it's

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<v Speaker 1>not failure, but we've got to get some result at

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<v Speaker 1>this point. I think the president is going to need

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<v Speaker 1>some results if he thinks that North Korea is gonna

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<v Speaker 1>change their behavior anyway. UM. But I'd rather have him

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<v Speaker 1>to do what he did, walk away and not release

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<v Speaker 1>sanctions or or do something else because, in some ways,

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<v Speaker 1>based on my observation of the media right now, Donald Trump,

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<v Speaker 1>it's lose lou of anything he does. If he caved

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<v Speaker 1>on I think he caved. If he you know, he

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<v Speaker 1>walks away, he's getting slammed for that. It's just it's

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<v Speaker 1>just mind boggling. I'm relieved they's walked away, and at

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<v Speaker 1>this point now we know a little bit more. I thought, again,

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<v Speaker 1>we get the end of the Korean War, we get

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<v Speaker 1>the demilitaration that they're parallel, that would have been a

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<v Speaker 1>good win. We also consider South Korea, though here they

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<v Speaker 1>want something to happen as well. It's not just the

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<v Speaker 1>United States. Do you think it's significant that tensions have

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<v Speaker 1>been ratcheted down on the peninsula or is that just

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<v Speaker 1>kind of a cycle that we go through And it's

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<v Speaker 1>not that good as sign. You mean, they're they're not

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<v Speaker 1>firing off missiles and testing balls, right, there's no military exercise. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>just you know, I think it's widely agreed the tensions

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<v Speaker 1>are down. There's a lot more friendly noises being made,

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<v Speaker 1>no no scary military exercises and tests. Yeah, I agree

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<v Speaker 1>with that. And and Trump thought his personality was gonna

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<v Speaker 1>win the day over and it it just didn't in

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<v Speaker 1>this case. And you know, it is it is what

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<v Speaker 1>is why he walks away from it. But you're right

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<v Speaker 1>that South Korea wants those tensions to be ratcheted down.

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<v Speaker 1>The South Korean leaders in particular, and um, they want

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<v Speaker 1>to open up the boarder. They want to do more

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<v Speaker 1>things and eventually, you know, maybe by things will be

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<v Speaker 1>overcome by events and eventually they'll get to a place

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<v Speaker 1>where there's more security. In the past, Um, they would

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<v Speaker 1>ratch it back up the military exercise, if they would

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<v Speaker 1>wratch it back up a lot of the missile testing

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<v Speaker 1>you know, you notice the president left still and I've

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<v Speaker 1>I've been okay with Trump's, uh, the way he's gone

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<v Speaker 1>about this, And you know, the diplomacy crowd says, no,

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<v Speaker 1>you've got to have all the groundwork laid long before

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<v Speaker 1>they get there. And all they do is shake hands

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<v Speaker 1>inside something. You know, he just shows up and they talk.

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<v Speaker 1>But you can't. You can't show up to another one,

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<v Speaker 1>can you, unless you know something's gonna happen. But it's

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<v Speaker 1>okay to walk away this one and say, whoa, whoa, whoa,

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<v Speaker 1>we're not doing that. You've it fly clear across the country,

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<v Speaker 1>show up again, and then walk away with nothing that

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<v Speaker 1>would actually look bad. Yeah, running out of magic wands

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<v Speaker 1>when it comes to that, being able to reuse that

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<v Speaker 1>scenario over and over. And that's why I thought they

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<v Speaker 1>would lead get that end of the Korean conflict out there,

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<v Speaker 1>but they weren't able to get that. Um. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>he wanted something. He want of those sanctions relief. He

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<v Speaker 1>you know, he wants the complete turnaround of what we

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<v Speaker 1>would do without any verification. I just don't think that's

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<v Speaker 1>gonna work. I or I would also like to see

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<v Speaker 1>in suspectors in the country that sells me. It's another

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<v Speaker 1>thing he's thought. He's allowed the country to be opened up.

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<v Speaker 1>People are looking inside there that would be another good

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<v Speaker 1>stuff forward. Well, I agree with Jack. I think that

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<v Speaker 1>the Trump approach has been really interesting and unconventional. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>but nothing else has work, So I say, why not

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<v Speaker 1>give it a give it a go. But and someday maybe, uh, Mike,

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<v Speaker 1>I'll buy a beverage of your choice and we can

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<v Speaker 1>sit around and chat about one of my favorite topics

0:08:49.440 --> 0:08:52.200
<v Speaker 1>in in you know, political science and reality, and that's

0:08:52.480 --> 0:08:58.320
<v Speaker 1>totalitarian regimes trying to or wanting to liberalize, and how

0:08:58.360 --> 0:09:01.760
<v Speaker 1>difficult and dangerous it is for them. And and little

0:09:01.800 --> 0:09:05.040
<v Speaker 1>fat head knows that he knows every bit of opening

0:09:05.080 --> 0:09:07.480
<v Speaker 1>that juices up the economy, which is the care at

0:09:07.480 --> 0:09:10.920
<v Speaker 1>the president's danglin in front of him, also holds terrible

0:09:11.000 --> 0:09:14.400
<v Speaker 1>danger for his regime. Right, it's fundamentally lighting up to use,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's going to have an explosion. On whether he

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<v Speaker 1>can control that explosion remains to be seen. And you know,

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<v Speaker 1>again it's it's clearly a timber box in North Korea.

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<v Speaker 1>What he can control, He's still concerned about his own safety. Look,

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<v Speaker 1>how we have to travel to Vietnam in order to

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<v Speaker 1>do the summit from the very beginning, and so he

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<v Speaker 1>knows that once that train leaves the station, Uh, there's

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<v Speaker 1>just no stopping at that point. I'm sorry. The metaphorical trainer,

0:09:36.800 --> 0:09:40.200
<v Speaker 1>the actual one he can ride at get the one

0:09:40.240 --> 0:09:42.199
<v Speaker 1>he rides on through China. Actually, what's that train leaves

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<v Speaker 1>any right? Never? He might never return, who knows. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>Mike Clients, CBS News Military Analysts, Mikey, it's always enlightening.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks very much. We look forward to hearing about your

0:09:50.360 --> 0:09:53.280
<v Speaker 1>next project or whatever you have cooking. Yeah, thanks, I

0:09:53.320 --> 0:09:55.200
<v Speaker 1>got I got the cast of Mr Robot here. If you,

0:09:55.280 --> 0:09:57.760
<v Speaker 1>if your fans, if you, if your listeners watch Mr Robot,

0:09:57.800 --> 0:10:00.600
<v Speaker 1>watch films. Just they just they just wrapped up filming. Uh,

0:10:00.840 --> 0:10:02.559
<v Speaker 1>the first few episodes of the season four of Mr.

0:10:02.640 --> 0:10:08.000
<v Speaker 1>Robot in my House. Literally, No, Kenny is so into

0:10:08.040 --> 0:10:12.920
<v Speaker 1>that show. Yeah cool? Why your house? Well, they picked it.

0:10:12.960 --> 0:10:14.920
<v Speaker 1>They did a kind of a routine screen that came by,

0:10:15.200 --> 0:10:17.680
<v Speaker 1>and uh so if you watch the show, my home

0:10:17.800 --> 0:10:21.040
<v Speaker 1>is going to be the childhood home of Agent d Phrow.

0:10:21.080 --> 0:10:24.160
<v Speaker 1>She used the FBI agent that the Dark Army has

0:10:24.200 --> 0:10:27.120
<v Speaker 1>now come over. How cool, I'm not sure I can

0:10:27.200 --> 0:10:31.440
<v Speaker 1>remember that sentence, but I will do. Your kids think

0:10:31.480 --> 0:10:33.880
<v Speaker 1>this is the coolest thing ever. Yeah, they're not at home,

0:10:33.920 --> 0:10:35.960
<v Speaker 1>thank god. But because it's it's kind of like having

0:10:36.080 --> 0:10:38.240
<v Speaker 1>a frat party in your house three days in a row.

0:10:38.640 --> 0:10:40.360
<v Speaker 1>You're you know, dragging people out at four o'clock in

0:10:40.400 --> 0:10:42.280
<v Speaker 1>the morning, but literally show back up at six am

0:10:42.360 --> 0:10:44.920
<v Speaker 1>and the party starts again. So we're in a massive

0:10:44.960 --> 0:10:47.120
<v Speaker 1>cleanup effort right now for the next five days around here.

0:10:47.160 --> 0:10:48.920
<v Speaker 1>So all right, Well, did you have to sign any

0:10:48.960 --> 0:10:51.000
<v Speaker 1>non disclosure things about who was and wasn't in the

0:10:51.000 --> 0:10:54.040
<v Speaker 1>scenes that were being filmed there as you? Yeah, I can't.

0:10:54.200 --> 0:10:55.720
<v Speaker 1>I could, I couldn't go a lot on social media,

0:10:55.760 --> 0:10:57.240
<v Speaker 1>couldn't take pictures of the actress. And I said, I

0:10:57.280 --> 0:10:59.160
<v Speaker 1>don't really know a lot about the plot and everything.

0:10:59.160 --> 0:11:00.959
<v Speaker 1>I could tell you a few two different things. That's

0:11:00.960 --> 0:11:03.040
<v Speaker 1>but how it extended. But it's, uh, it was pretty

0:11:03.040 --> 0:11:05.160
<v Speaker 1>cool for sure. Well, something we'll have to talk about that.

0:11:05.160 --> 0:11:08.679
<v Speaker 1>That's fantastic. I'm so glad you mentioned that. My clients, Mike,

0:11:08.880 --> 0:11:11.640
<v Speaker 1>thanks million, it's always great. Thanks you gat me. Thanks,

0:11:11.920 --> 0:11:14.120
<v Speaker 1>nobody's feeling anything in my house and listens for some

0:11:14.240 --> 0:11:20.160
<v Speaker 1>Learning Channel show that's kind of horrific. Oh oh, my

0:11:20.200 --> 0:11:24.040
<v Speaker 1>friend's kitchen was featured in a major motion picture recently. Yeah,

0:11:24.520 --> 0:11:28.000
<v Speaker 1>where do you get signed up for that? Hey? Parents,

0:11:28.280 --> 0:11:31.040
<v Speaker 1>and I'm nice palm tree in my backyard. If you

0:11:31.080 --> 0:11:33.760
<v Speaker 1>wanted to get some like starlit, depose in front of it.

0:11:34.000 --> 0:11:36.120
<v Speaker 1>You use it all day, no charge. Hey hoarders, are

0:11:36.160 --> 0:11:40.760
<v Speaker 1>you out of hoarders? Oh boy, when you're ready to

0:11:40.840 --> 0:11:43.640
<v Speaker 1>ride Metro, we want you to know we're ready for you.

0:11:43.920 --> 0:11:45.880
<v Speaker 1>Here are just a few of the people at Metro

0:11:46.000 --> 0:11:47.960
<v Speaker 1>to tell you how we're doing our part to keep

0:11:48.040 --> 0:11:53.120
<v Speaker 1>riders safe. We're cleaning like noble before you have found

0:11:53.160 --> 0:11:55.520
<v Speaker 1>halfs out of suns of statis all over the Metro

0:11:56.080 --> 0:12:00.560
<v Speaker 1>no mask, no Metro. We have a few extras at Metro.

0:12:00.880 --> 0:12:03.400
<v Speaker 1>We're doing our part to keep the DC area moving.

0:12:03.640 --> 0:12:06.080
<v Speaker 1>Find out more at will mata dot com slash doing

0:12:06.080 --> 0:12:06.560
<v Speaker 1>our part