WEBVTT - The Human Egg Trade: Episode 3 - The Journey 0:00:02.640 --> 0:00:07.160 Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio News. 0:00:07.960 --> 0:00:10.880 Justa heads up before we get into today's episode, I 0:00:10.920 --> 0:00:12.960 want to let you know that it includes a description 0:00:13.200 --> 0:00:18.480 of miscarriage, so take care while listening. Alice Kempton has 0:00:18.520 --> 0:00:21.640 pretty much always known she wanted to have kids, and 0:00:21.680 --> 0:00:24.800 since she was sixteen, she's also known that she'd need 0:00:24.840 --> 0:00:26.000 help to make it happen. 0:00:26.480 --> 0:00:30.080 I found out that I would need IVF treatment, and 0:00:30.160 --> 0:00:32.920 it was all a blur because I hadn't even kissed 0:00:32.920 --> 0:00:37.159 a boy, so it was something my mum had to 0:00:37.159 --> 0:00:38.400 process then more than me. 0:00:38.880 --> 0:00:42.480 Alice had been born without ovary's so if she ever 0:00:42.520 --> 0:00:44.639 wanted to have a child, she would need to use 0:00:44.640 --> 0:00:46.000 an egg from another woman. 0:00:46.760 --> 0:00:51.880 Hearing that I in inverted commas can't have kids naturally 0:00:52.159 --> 0:00:54.840 got me thinking from that age, well that's something I 0:00:54.920 --> 0:00:55.560 really want. 0:00:55.960 --> 0:00:58.560 And when she was twenty nine, she met someone who 0:00:58.680 --> 0:00:59.720 really wanted it. 0:00:59.600 --> 0:01:04.200 To The dream was always for me to have a 0:01:04.280 --> 0:01:06.119 family with a person I loved. 0:01:06.640 --> 0:01:11.040 This is Paul Kempton, Alice's husband. They met through Paul's brother. 0:01:11.560 --> 0:01:14.160 Paul was the best man at his wedding, Alice was 0:01:14.160 --> 0:01:18.280 a bridesmaid and they connected on the dance floor. Within 0:01:18.319 --> 0:01:21.000 a year of dating, Alice told Paul that if they 0:01:21.000 --> 0:01:23.800 wanted to have kids, she'd need a donor egg to 0:01:23.840 --> 0:01:24.920 get pregnant. No. 0:01:25.000 --> 0:01:28.920 I certainly didn't know much, if anything, about IVF, let 0:01:29.000 --> 0:01:33.280 alone a donor. But if you love someone and you 0:01:33.400 --> 0:01:36.800 love them a lot, and that's someone you want to marry, 0:01:36.840 --> 0:01:39.080 then you'll do whatever it takes. 0:01:41.120 --> 0:01:44.479 The cost of IVF can vary wildly depending on where 0:01:44.520 --> 0:01:47.800 you live, the kind of reproductive assistance you need, whether 0:01:47.840 --> 0:01:51.640 you have insurance that covers fertility treatments, and whether travel 0:01:51.720 --> 0:01:55.160 is involved. If you need a donor egg, like Alice, 0:01:55.320 --> 0:01:59.880 it can increase costs even more. In Australia, where the Kemptons, 0:02:00.440 --> 0:02:04.160 there are very limited options for egg donation. The country 0:02:04.160 --> 0:02:06.880 has some of the most restrictive regulations in the global 0:02:06.920 --> 0:02:11.600 egg market. In an effort to prevent exploitation, eggs must 0:02:11.639 --> 0:02:15.359 truly be donated there, meaning donors must give up their 0:02:15.360 --> 0:02:20.240 eggs altruistically. No payment for the donation is allowed. That 0:02:20.280 --> 0:02:23.600 means that finding a donor in Australia can be really hard, 0:02:24.000 --> 0:02:27.440 and donation almost always happens between people who know each other. 0:02:28.600 --> 0:02:31.560 For Alice and Paul, there was only one family member 0:02:31.600 --> 0:02:34.239 they could ask Alice's cousin. 0:02:35.240 --> 0:02:38.679 I wrote a really long letter, not because I was 0:02:38.720 --> 0:02:42.839 potentially worried about the result, but I wanted to let 0:02:42.880 --> 0:02:46.120 her know my true wives not if turn thirty and 0:02:46.160 --> 0:02:48.720 we should have kids and you need to help me. 0:02:49.120 --> 0:02:51.720 It was this was going to be the biggest gift 0:02:51.800 --> 0:02:54.680 someone could give. I sent the letter and I was, 0:02:55.720 --> 0:02:58.840 you know, probably nervous as a wered, but still excited 0:02:58.919 --> 0:02:59.320 as well. 0:02:59.400 --> 0:03:00.560 So not nervous. 0:03:00.760 --> 0:03:04.680 And anyway, very soon she said, I have been waiting 0:03:04.720 --> 0:03:10.440 for this letter for so long, so it was magical. Yeah, 0:03:09.040 --> 0:03:09.320 it was. 0:03:10.600 --> 0:03:13.200 It was great. 0:03:13.680 --> 0:03:17.120 Alice knew the process wouldn't be easy, but they'd do 0:03:17.200 --> 0:03:17.760 it together. 0:03:18.160 --> 0:03:23.120 I was very keen to live every injection with her 0:03:23.240 --> 0:03:26.960 and make sure each step of the way. She constantly 0:03:27.080 --> 0:03:29.600 knew that this was the best thing she was ever 0:03:29.639 --> 0:03:32.680 going to give someone else. You know, and I'll be 0:03:32.680 --> 0:03:35.240 a shoulder to cry on. I'll be a late night 0:03:35.280 --> 0:03:37.960 phone call, like anything you're going through. I want to 0:03:38.000 --> 0:03:40.600 pretend I'm going through because I can't be the one 0:03:41.000 --> 0:03:43.840 at that stage in the early process having the drugs. 0:03:44.160 --> 0:03:48.000 So Alice, her cousin, and Paul started IVF and the 0:03:48.040 --> 0:03:52.680 path ahead of them while not without challenges, looked promising. 0:03:52.800 --> 0:03:56.240 This beginning was awesome. My cousin was super fertile for 0:03:56.320 --> 0:04:01.280 a geriatric. She's exceptionally healthy. Yes, she's considered geriatric in 0:04:01.320 --> 0:04:04.760 the IRVF world. So we would laugh about those words 0:04:04.760 --> 0:04:06.520 going around the room because. 0:04:07.000 --> 0:04:09.640 She was just like in her mid thirties. 0:04:09.680 --> 0:04:11.600 Exactly, and I was blow thirties. 0:04:11.720 --> 0:04:16.800 So we we were just positive the whole way until 0:04:17.960 --> 0:04:21.839 it wasn't. 0:04:22.440 --> 0:04:26.000 This is episode three of The Human Egg Trade, a 0:04:26.040 --> 0:04:29.280 special series from Bloomberg's investigations team and the Big Take 0:04:29.360 --> 0:04:33.680 podcast about the booming global market for human eggs. A 0:04:33.720 --> 0:04:37.479 team of Bloomberg reporters across five continents and eleven countries 0:04:37.640 --> 0:04:40.559 have spent the last year trying to understand how human 0:04:40.600 --> 0:04:44.599 eggs are donated, bought, sold, and moved around the world. 0:04:45.480 --> 0:04:48.120 We've covered how a teenage girl was lured into the 0:04:48.160 --> 0:04:51.520 egg trade in India, and how police say women's eggs 0:04:51.560 --> 0:04:55.640 were stolen in Greece, cases where egg donation led to 0:04:55.720 --> 0:05:00.479 exploitation and violated local laws. In this episod pisode, we 0:05:00.560 --> 0:05:04.400 focus on one couple whose experience navigating the fertility industry 0:05:04.440 --> 0:05:08.159 as egg recipients brought them a different set of challenges. 0:05:08.880 --> 0:05:12.960 They wanted access to a market they felt offered transparency. 0:05:13.000 --> 0:05:18.000 They especially wanted information about potential donors. They wanted the 0:05:18.040 --> 0:05:19.200 best they could afford. 0:05:19.800 --> 0:05:23.880 They call their son a quarter million dollar baby. 0:05:24.400 --> 0:05:28.640 That's Bloomberg investigative reporter Jessica Brice, who spoke extensively with 0:05:28.680 --> 0:05:29.279 the Kemptons. 0:05:29.480 --> 0:05:31.920 They say, by the time they finished the process with him, 0:05:32.320 --> 0:05:34.040 they'd spent about a quarter million dollars. 0:05:34.560 --> 0:05:37.159 And did they go into debt. They did go into debt. 0:05:37.240 --> 0:05:37.520 Yes. 0:05:39.760 --> 0:05:43.720 Today on the show, the exhilarating promise, gutting losses, and 0:05:43.839 --> 0:05:47.680 extreme cost of one family's journey through the global IVF 0:05:47.760 --> 0:05:58.599 market will continue after the break with twenty donated eggs 0:05:58.640 --> 0:06:02.560 from Alice's cousin Alison. Paul's IVF journey was off to 0:06:02.640 --> 0:06:06.960 an auspicious start with paul sperm. Those twenty eggs made 0:06:07.120 --> 0:06:09.000 nine viable embryos. 0:06:09.279 --> 0:06:10.919 We put a fresh transfer in. 0:06:11.360 --> 0:06:15.719 I was fitting healthy, The embryos were looking awesome according 0:06:15.760 --> 0:06:20.600 to the embryologist. And I was pregnant, you know, at 0:06:20.600 --> 0:06:22.520 the ten day blood test, and then at the two 0:06:22.560 --> 0:06:23.960 week and the three week, in the four and the 0:06:23.960 --> 0:06:25.400 five and the sixth and the seven and they ate, 0:06:25.560 --> 0:06:28.600 and then there was a heartbeat, and then two weeks 0:06:28.640 --> 0:06:29.760 later another heartbeat. 0:06:30.320 --> 0:06:33.280 At fourteen weeks, they went in for a checkup. Paul 0:06:33.360 --> 0:06:35.440 had been out of town during the first two scants, 0:06:35.839 --> 0:06:37.480 so it would be the first time they'd see their 0:06:37.520 --> 0:06:42.320 baby's heartbeat together. Alice works as a veterinarian, so she 0:06:42.480 --> 0:06:44.640 knows how to read an ultrasound. 0:06:44.520 --> 0:06:49.160 And so from the minute that lady put the probe bond, 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:54.480 I didn't say heartbeat. And Paul was sitting next to 0:06:54.520 --> 0:06:56.080 me and he hadn't been in one yet, and he's 0:06:56.120 --> 0:06:59.240 holding my hand, and I was like, I remember, just 0:07:00.200 --> 0:07:00.640 it's dead. 0:07:00.839 --> 0:07:03.359 It's dead, it's dead. And Paul was still asking questions, Oh, 0:07:03.400 --> 0:07:04.080 what's that? What's that? 0:07:04.120 --> 0:07:08.239 And the lady obviously has to do a thorough scan, 0:07:08.400 --> 0:07:11.480 so she still has to on her report, right, what's 0:07:11.480 --> 0:07:13.600 in the top right, the top left, the bottom right, 0:07:13.680 --> 0:07:13.920 the butt? 0:07:13.920 --> 0:07:16.160 And I was like, get off my tummy, you know, 0:07:16.280 --> 0:07:18.120 and just tell me what I know. 0:07:18.480 --> 0:07:23.040 I still remember it very clearly. That first first loss 0:07:23.520 --> 0:07:28.120 was really hard, and I knew it would be really 0:07:28.400 --> 0:07:32.200 really taxing and heard on OL and obviously for both 0:07:32.240 --> 0:07:35.000 of us, but you know, I felt like, you know, 0:07:35.160 --> 0:07:36.680 keep positive, keep the faith. 0:07:37.200 --> 0:07:41.560 The captains still had eight viable embryos, so they tried 0:07:41.600 --> 0:07:47.200 again and again and again. Over eighteen months, Alice went 0:07:47.200 --> 0:07:51.440 through a total of seven IVF cycles. She got pregnant 0:07:51.480 --> 0:07:55.000 five times, and she had five mess carriages. 0:07:54.840 --> 0:07:56.480 And they were horrendous. 0:07:58.160 --> 0:08:03.120 I became a very bitter person and very glass half 0:08:03.200 --> 0:08:06.520 empty when that was not me prior for probably the 0:08:06.560 --> 0:08:12.360 next year. So I definitely went through what did I 0:08:12.600 --> 0:08:13.800 do to lose this? 0:08:14.040 --> 0:08:14.240 You know? 0:08:14.640 --> 0:08:17.480 Did I do too much core exercise? Was it playing tennis? 0:08:17.840 --> 0:08:19.360 Or what did I eat or what? 0:08:20.120 --> 0:08:20.240 Like? 0:08:20.480 --> 0:08:22.520 What you idiot? You didn't get enough sleep? 0:08:22.600 --> 0:08:22.800 You know? 0:08:22.960 --> 0:08:24.360 Did I kill this? You know? 0:08:24.800 --> 0:08:28.040 So that is a horrible self reflection to do, but 0:08:28.840 --> 0:08:32.360 everyone would do that. I feel I've never met someone 0:08:32.400 --> 0:08:35.200 that has a miscarriage without questioning that. 0:08:35.720 --> 0:08:39.440 People around her, people close to her, started to ask 0:08:39.559 --> 0:08:41.440 if she and Paul were going too far. 0:08:42.080 --> 0:08:44.120 I had beautiful friends and found me to lean on. 0:08:44.160 --> 0:08:48.360 But even by this stage, you know, your seventh one, 0:08:48.559 --> 0:08:51.760 when you've got so far, I kept getting pregnant. Families 0:08:51.760 --> 0:08:54.200 even starting to say, are you guys flogging a dead horse? 0:08:54.320 --> 0:08:58.640 You know, like, what's what's your thought process here? And 0:08:58.679 --> 0:09:00.360 then you just keep looking at them in the and 0:09:00.400 --> 0:09:05.240 say I've got pregnant. Specialists say I'm not flogging a 0:09:05.280 --> 0:09:10.040 dead horse. And the highs to the carrot dangling is 0:09:10.080 --> 0:09:13.440 to gold, you know, so you press on. 0:09:15.760 --> 0:09:19.800 Eventually there were no embryos left, and when Paul and 0:09:19.880 --> 0:09:22.880 Alice asked her cousin if she'd donate another round of eggs, 0:09:23.400 --> 0:09:27.280 she told them she couldn't go through it again. Alice 0:09:27.280 --> 0:09:29.640 and Paul had gone as far down the IVF path 0:09:29.679 --> 0:09:34.199 as they could. Given their circumstances and Australia's restrictions, They 0:09:34.200 --> 0:09:38.240 didn't know anyone else they could ask. They decided they'd 0:09:38.280 --> 0:09:42.600 need to go abroad. That would mean new possibilities, but 0:09:42.720 --> 0:09:48.280 also navigating new regulatory frameworks. It would also mean new costs. 0:09:49.040 --> 0:10:01.360 That's after the break in their home country Australia. Alison 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:03.520 Paul Kempton had gone as far as they could to 0:10:03.520 --> 0:10:06.600 have a child through IVF, so they decided to look 0:10:06.600 --> 0:10:09.840 at clinics in other parts of the world. They both 0:10:09.880 --> 0:10:12.400 have fair hair and fair skin and felt it was 0:10:12.400 --> 0:10:15.199 important for their baby to look like they did. They 0:10:15.240 --> 0:10:18.280 also wanted a donor who shared their active lifestyle, who 0:10:18.320 --> 0:10:21.200 had no history of family illness and whose eggs had 0:10:21.240 --> 0:10:24.360 already been used to conceive a child. So you looked 0:10:24.360 --> 0:10:27.839 at every single potential country outside of Australia that you could. 0:10:28.320 --> 0:10:30.400 Yep, we looked at names of clinics. 0:10:30.440 --> 0:10:34.400 I have probably forty emails to different clinics in Europe, 0:10:34.760 --> 0:10:38.400 about ten to South Africa and lots to America before 0:10:38.480 --> 0:10:43.680 we in Inverticomas made a decision to just chase the 0:10:43.720 --> 0:10:47.160 American tree because financially it's in a world of its 0:10:47.200 --> 0:10:52.040 own for IVF, but for really valid reasons. 0:10:51.760 --> 0:10:55.319 The Kemptons had a lot on the line, both emotionally 0:10:55.440 --> 0:10:58.920 and financially. They'd already spent a little more than thirty 0:10:59.000 --> 0:11:02.160 thousand dollars for IVF in Australia. 0:11:01.440 --> 0:11:07.080 Since we were thirty. It's been IRVF. You know, should 0:11:07.080 --> 0:11:07.920 we could? We can? 0:11:08.000 --> 0:11:08.080 We? 0:11:08.880 --> 0:11:10.760 Or is it better for that? While friends were going 0:11:10.800 --> 0:11:15.320 on holidays or getting houses or you know, equals in 0:11:15.360 --> 0:11:18.839 your profession doing all that, You're like, oh, I really 0:11:18.840 --> 0:11:21.760 want to, but our whys is so real? 0:11:22.120 --> 0:11:22.320 There? 0:11:22.440 --> 0:11:26.680 Why making a family? So even though the US would 0:11:26.720 --> 0:11:29.440 easily be the most expensive place to get treatment of 0:11:29.480 --> 0:11:32.520 the countries they were looking at, they decided to stretch 0:11:32.559 --> 0:11:33.240 for it. 0:11:33.240 --> 0:11:37.719 It was the transparency that America has the level of 0:11:38.880 --> 0:11:44.360 pre qualifying donors and the information you could get on 0:11:44.440 --> 0:11:49.400 them and their family and their siblings and their grandparents. 0:11:49.600 --> 0:11:52.400 And that was what certainly got me over the line 0:11:52.440 --> 0:11:54.680 and got us over line in terms of going down 0:11:54.720 --> 0:11:55.160 that path. 0:11:55.440 --> 0:11:58.200 Once they decided on the US, the next up was 0:11:58.240 --> 0:12:02.400 to find a donor, and Alice says American doorner agencies 0:12:02.480 --> 0:12:04.439 had a dizzying number of options. 0:12:04.920 --> 0:12:08.800 At first, I was going to design a child, so 0:12:08.960 --> 0:12:12.280 I was looking for Feeno type only, and I was 0:12:12.400 --> 0:12:14.920 just like, they're going to be smart, they're going to 0:12:14.920 --> 0:12:17.360 be athletic, and they're going to be tall and good looking, 0:12:17.559 --> 0:12:19.880 and you know what, Bugat, I'm going to find it. 0:12:19.960 --> 0:12:20.720 I'm going to do this. 0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:24.280 But it wasn't just photos. She was also sifting through 0:12:24.280 --> 0:12:25.680 family medical histories. 0:12:26.040 --> 0:12:29.560 I was definitely looking at photos at first for months, 0:12:29.840 --> 0:12:32.079 and then after a photo I would read and as 0:12:32.080 --> 0:12:34.559 I said, extensive medical and I'd be like, oh, wow, 0:12:35.000 --> 0:12:38.880 that poor family. You know, her cousin and her cousin's 0:12:38.960 --> 0:12:41.800 mum have both had breast cancer, you know, and we 0:12:41.920 --> 0:12:44.320 know that there is a breast cancer chain. So that's 0:12:44.320 --> 0:12:46.480 when I might say Oh, maybe not, because we can 0:12:47.080 --> 0:12:50.000 have that choice. And you know that he's horrendous to 0:12:50.040 --> 0:12:51.959 people that have to go through that. But if I 0:12:52.280 --> 0:12:54.520 can avoid that, we're so lucky. 0:12:55.000 --> 0:12:58.599 Alice says she spent seven months spinning her wheels, struggling 0:12:58.720 --> 0:13:01.280 with the weed of the choice she was making. She 0:13:01.400 --> 0:13:04.120 was working full time and spending four hours a day 0:13:04.360 --> 0:13:07.520 looking at donor profiles. She says it was like a 0:13:07.600 --> 0:13:10.320 dating app. You could just keep swiping and swiping and 0:13:10.360 --> 0:13:14.800 swiping without making progress. She went to her therapist for advice. 0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:17.680 I said, I'm going crazy. How am I going to 0:13:17.679 --> 0:13:18.480 make this decision? 0:13:18.520 --> 0:13:20.080 Like what if I have to look my kid in 0:13:20.120 --> 0:13:21.599 the eye and say, I'm so sorry I made the 0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:22.360 wrong decision. 0:13:22.600 --> 0:13:22.800 You know. 0:13:22.880 --> 0:13:25.520 I was that the guilt is already there, and because 0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:29.959 you could lego piece this potential designer child together, Paul 0:13:30.000 --> 0:13:31.760 would find me up at three am. 0:13:31.960 --> 0:13:33.920 You know, just scroll, I think, you know, And I 0:13:34.000 --> 0:13:34.760 was exhausted. 0:13:35.000 --> 0:13:37.720 Her therapist told her to stop looking at photos and 0:13:37.760 --> 0:13:40.960 focus on what was really important to them. And then 0:13:41.400 --> 0:13:44.880 one day Alice came upon a profile that seemed special, 0:13:45.400 --> 0:13:47.720 right somehow? Do you remember what it was about her 0:13:47.720 --> 0:13:49.280 profile that kind of stood up to you. 0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:54.080 Yeah, absolutely her name, because most donors are donor A 0:13:54.440 --> 0:13:58.640 two one four seven and you never find out their name. 0:13:59.000 --> 0:14:02.360 And there was even on the email you don't know Karen. 0:14:02.400 --> 0:14:06.079 I was like, oh Karen, cool name, love it, go girl. 0:14:06.280 --> 0:14:08.880 Alice took a quick peek at Karen's photo and then 0:14:08.920 --> 0:14:11.920 skipped to her medical history, no red flax. 0:14:12.280 --> 0:14:15.040 Then I went back to her profile and we reguarded 0:14:15.120 --> 0:14:16.199 to read first, and I was like. 0:14:16.240 --> 0:14:18.680 Yeah, she likes pizza. This is so cool. 0:14:18.760 --> 0:14:21.520 She loves running, like this is my girl, and I 0:14:21.520 --> 0:14:23.480 can't wait to tell Paul. And then I looked at 0:14:23.520 --> 0:14:26.440 photo and she just a smile. She's this You could 0:14:26.480 --> 0:14:28.440 see her jumping out it. You're saying, let me help you. 0:14:28.680 --> 0:14:31.400 So I vividly remember that, especially because it's on top of, 0:14:32.160 --> 0:14:36.120 you know, eighteen months of trawling and getting very close, 0:14:36.200 --> 0:14:38.320 you know, like we had spreadsheets about whether it was 0:14:38.720 --> 0:14:41.960 health GPA, and then it was literally like what that 0:14:42.080 --> 0:14:45.480 spreadsheet clear, We've found Karen. Paul needs to wake up, 0:14:45.520 --> 0:14:47.000 I need to shut we need to get onto this 0:14:47.080 --> 0:14:48.520 because she's going to be snapped up. 0:14:48.920 --> 0:14:52.720 So Karen Pets is a model from Argentina. 0:14:52.840 --> 0:14:56.080 Karen has spoken at length with her colleague Bloomberg reporter 0:14:56.320 --> 0:14:57.040 Jessica Brace. 0:14:57.440 --> 0:15:02.520 She's tall, she's charismatics, she's really smart, she's very nice. 0:15:03.200 --> 0:15:04.640 And she's she's gorgeous. 0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:09.400 And she's also a superproducer. A super producer, a donor 0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:12.600 who produces far more than the typical fifteen to twenty 0:15:12.640 --> 0:15:13.640 eggs each cycle. 0:15:13.880 --> 0:15:16.400 Her first donation was in January twenty nineteen. 0:15:16.480 --> 0:15:17.600 She was twenty six years. 0:15:17.480 --> 0:15:20.960 Old, and she flew to Los Angeles. She was paid 0:15:22.160 --> 0:15:26.080 six thousand dollars. She the retrieval yielded forty five eggs, 0:15:26.600 --> 0:15:29.480 and somehow word got out. She still doesn't know exactly 0:15:29.520 --> 0:15:32.760 how word got out. But within a week or two, 0:15:33.400 --> 0:15:38.800 this agency called Growing Generations called her up and they said, oh, 0:15:38.840 --> 0:15:40.040 we want to represent you. 0:15:40.360 --> 0:15:42.840 Which meant she could charge a lot more per cycle, 0:15:43.400 --> 0:15:47.240 tens of thousands of dollars. But Karen told Jessica it 0:15:47.280 --> 0:15:48.520 wasn't just about the money. 0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:52.240 This sort of gives her more purpose in life. We 0:15:52.360 --> 0:15:55.680 spoke to a lot of egg donors who are very 0:15:55.720 --> 0:15:58.240 open about saying I only do this for the money. 0:15:58.800 --> 0:16:01.000 It's an easy way to make a lot of money, 0:16:01.320 --> 0:16:04.920 and that's not necessarily Karen's case, although she does get 0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:08.920 paid and compensated very well, just because she is, you know, 0:16:08.960 --> 0:16:10.200 such an elite donor. 0:16:10.280 --> 0:16:13.040 So elite that the Kemptons worried lots of other people 0:16:13.160 --> 0:16:16.160 might want Karen's eggs too, so they rushed to reach 0:16:16.200 --> 0:16:18.440 out to her agency before someone else did. 0:16:18.760 --> 0:16:20.800 And literally, Paul, I can't remember how long you looked 0:16:20.800 --> 0:16:21.600 at her profile, but. 0:16:21.600 --> 0:16:23.280 Then he's like, right, we need to, we need to, 0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:24.120 we need to emig it. 0:16:24.200 --> 0:16:24.320 Now. 0:16:24.320 --> 0:16:25.480 I was like, I'm doing I'll do I'll do it, 0:16:25.480 --> 0:16:25.800 I'll do it. 0:16:25.800 --> 0:16:26.200 Do it. 0:16:26.240 --> 0:16:29.200 A representative from the donor agency helped Alice and Paul 0:16:29.320 --> 0:16:33.160 exchange letters with Karen, and once that went well, Alice 0:16:33.200 --> 0:16:35.080 wanted to take it one step further. 0:16:35.240 --> 0:16:37.840 I said, would she ever mate with us in scott 0:16:38.240 --> 0:16:40.520 And she said, look, it's it's really not done, but 0:16:40.560 --> 0:16:41.520 I've got to go back to Karen. 0:16:41.560 --> 0:16:42.640 And Karen was for it. 0:16:43.000 --> 0:16:45.160 The meeting was booked for thirty minutes. 0:16:45.040 --> 0:16:48.560 And it was just hysterical, like I talk a lot, 0:16:48.720 --> 0:16:52.840 but so is Karen, and we were just and with 0:16:52.920 --> 0:16:54.520 Paul like he was able to chime in. It wasn't 0:16:54.520 --> 0:16:56.520 as it was just two girls with three of us 0:16:56.600 --> 0:16:57.120 were just chatting. 0:16:57.160 --> 0:16:58.320 Kenny Kenny Kenny. 0:16:58.240 --> 0:17:01.560 Suddenly time was up. The donor agency said they had 0:17:01.560 --> 0:17:02.560 to end the call. 0:17:02.600 --> 0:17:04.040 And we were all like no. 0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:09.200 Karen and the Kemptons were in They all boarded flights 0:17:09.200 --> 0:17:13.439 to Portland, Oregon, Karen from Argentina and the Kemptons from Australia. 0:17:14.240 --> 0:17:18.480 Alice says half her suitcase held presents for Karen. They 0:17:18.520 --> 0:17:21.840 met for pizza. It was August of twenty nineteen. 0:17:22.280 --> 0:17:24.080 Mating her was awesome. 0:17:24.440 --> 0:17:26.280 We literally, I think we walked up to each other 0:17:26.320 --> 0:17:27.840 in the restaurant and gave each other a big hug 0:17:27.920 --> 0:17:31.000 and then there was just no awkwardness. It wasn't like, oh, 0:17:31.560 --> 0:17:34.680 what do you do in the afternoons? It was just 0:17:34.720 --> 0:17:35.760 straighting to banter. 0:17:36.200 --> 0:17:38.960 The three of them swap numbers and started a WhatsApp 0:17:39.000 --> 0:17:42.400 group chat. This was the kind of openness and connectedness 0:17:42.440 --> 0:17:45.960 the Kemptons had hoped to find pursuing IVF in the US, 0:17:46.800 --> 0:17:49.000 But in the back of her mind, Alice says she 0:17:49.160 --> 0:17:52.880 had concerns. Not long before they made the trip to Portland, 0:17:53.160 --> 0:17:56.480 Paul had been hospitalized with the flu, and they worried 0:17:56.520 --> 0:17:59.520 the fever could have affected the viability of his sperm. 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:03.280 I had this parrot in my head, just saying, remember 0:18:03.320 --> 0:18:06.400 Paul had the flu in Australia, so I was nervous 0:18:06.440 --> 0:18:10.480 and really drilling the clinic question wise, like you know, 0:18:10.520 --> 0:18:12.439 we're not questioning what Karen has to go through, but 0:18:12.960 --> 0:18:14.879 like I'm going to say, you, for the six or 0:18:14.920 --> 0:18:16.800 seventh time, we are happy to do a freeze all 0:18:16.800 --> 0:18:20.479 egg cycle, like Paul really fried that sperm, you know, 0:18:20.600 --> 0:18:21.440 like he was sick. 0:18:21.800 --> 0:18:24.879 The Kemptons didn't want to take any chances. They felt 0:18:24.880 --> 0:18:28.320 like this was their only shot. They'd paid twenty five 0:18:28.400 --> 0:18:32.000 thousand US dollars for Karen's fee, plus a seventeen thousand 0:18:32.040 --> 0:18:35.639 dollars agency fee. Then there were fifteen thousand dollars in 0:18:35.680 --> 0:18:39.320 travel costs to bring Karen to the US. The clinic 0:18:39.520 --> 0:18:43.800 charged another forty thousand dollars for the procedures Karen's agg retrieval, 0:18:44.000 --> 0:18:48.240 Paul's sperm collection, fertilizing the egg. Add in expenses for 0:18:48.320 --> 0:18:51.360 their own plane tickets, hormones for both Karen and Alys, 0:18:51.480 --> 0:18:55.240 several weeks of lodging, food, and a car. All in, 0:18:55.520 --> 0:18:58.280 the Kemptons had accumulated a debt of more than one 0:18:58.359 --> 0:19:03.040 hundred and seventy thousand dollar. Things had to go well. 0:19:03.160 --> 0:19:06.960 At the clinic, you have collection day, so that's go Karen, 0:19:07.040 --> 0:19:07.480 go Paul. 0:19:07.600 --> 0:19:11.800 And on Karen's side, things went extremely well. Fifty one 0:19:11.880 --> 0:19:17.199 eggs with paul sperm, nineteen became embryos, and then the 0:19:17.280 --> 0:19:20.080 kemptins waited for the results of their genetic testing to 0:19:20.119 --> 0:19:20.439 come in. 0:19:20.640 --> 0:19:22.720 It was one of the worst old eyes I remember having, 0:19:22.720 --> 0:19:26.240 because I could just distrain and agony of waiting. 0:19:26.480 --> 0:19:30.560 I was just punching through the motions, trying to enjoy myself, 0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:33.560 but just petrified. Each day, I'm like counting down the 0:19:33.640 --> 0:19:34.720 day until we actually knew. 0:19:35.080 --> 0:19:37.240 Alis and Paul were at the gym when they got 0:19:37.280 --> 0:19:37.640 the call. 0:19:38.080 --> 0:19:40.840 I was on the treadmill, and. 0:19:42.119 --> 0:19:44.240 The nurses are just so lovely, so they start off 0:19:44.240 --> 0:19:49.000 obviously very high, ellis how's your day, and then just wham, 0:19:49.400 --> 0:19:52.080 you know, I'm sorry to say none had survived to 0:19:52.119 --> 0:19:55.359 be viable, and I just I don't think I said anything. 0:19:55.400 --> 0:19:58.880 I went silent. I got off the treadmill, cried, went 0:19:58.920 --> 0:20:00.639 straight up to the room. 0:20:00.520 --> 0:20:03.440 And then I didn't leave my computer. I just went 0:20:03.480 --> 0:20:06.320 straight into you know, how did this happen? 0:20:06.400 --> 0:20:06.600 Mode? 0:20:06.680 --> 0:20:08.800 And I'm going to find out how, and I'm going 0:20:08.840 --> 0:20:12.720 to make someone accountable because we knew we'd never. 0:20:12.640 --> 0:20:15.200 Be able to do it again financially, Like you know. 0:20:15.720 --> 0:20:18.679 We knew from before we even while you're still positive, 0:20:18.720 --> 0:20:20.439 you're not talking about it because the thought that you 0:20:20.440 --> 0:20:21.560 have to do it again isn't there. 0:20:21.600 --> 0:20:22.840 But we both knew. 0:20:23.160 --> 0:20:29.159 We always knew America was our last chance. And I 0:20:29.160 --> 0:20:32.679 remember just needing to walk, go for walk by myself, 0:20:32.760 --> 0:20:35.440 giving our space and myself space. Like I just thought 0:20:36.520 --> 0:20:38.680 it was very devastating at that point, and we thought 0:20:38.720 --> 0:20:39.360 that was the end. 0:20:39.440 --> 0:20:39.720