1 00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio News. 2 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:10,880 Speaker 2: Justa heads up before we get into today's episode, I 3 00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:12,960 Speaker 2: want to let you know that it includes a description 4 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:18,480 Speaker 2: of miscarriage, so take care while listening. Alice Kempton has 5 00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:21,640 Speaker 2: pretty much always known she wanted to have kids, and 6 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:24,800 Speaker 2: since she was sixteen, she's also known that she'd need 7 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:26,000 Speaker 2: help to make it happen. 8 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 3: I found out that I would need IVF treatment, and 9 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:32,920 Speaker 3: it was all a blur because I hadn't even kissed 10 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:37,159 Speaker 3: a boy, so it was something my mum had to 11 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 3: process then more than me. 12 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:42,480 Speaker 2: Alice had been born without ovary's so if she ever 13 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:44,639 Speaker 2: wanted to have a child, she would need to use 14 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 2: an egg from another woman. 15 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:51,880 Speaker 3: Hearing that I in inverted commas can't have kids naturally 16 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 3: got me thinking from that age, well that's something I 17 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 3: really want. 18 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:58,560 Speaker 2: And when she was twenty nine, she met someone who 19 00:00:58,680 --> 00:00:59,720 Speaker 2: really wanted it. 20 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 4: To The dream was always for me to have a 21 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:06,119 Speaker 4: family with a person I loved. 22 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:11,040 Speaker 2: This is Paul Kempton, Alice's husband. They met through Paul's brother. 23 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:14,160 Speaker 2: Paul was the best man at his wedding, Alice was 24 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 2: a bridesmaid and they connected on the dance floor. Within 25 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 2: a year of dating, Alice told Paul that if they 26 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 2: wanted to have kids, she'd need a donor egg to 27 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 2: get pregnant. No. 28 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 4: I certainly didn't know much, if anything, about IVF, let 29 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:33,280 Speaker 4: alone a donor. But if you love someone and you 30 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 4: love them a lot, and that's someone you want to marry, 31 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 4: then you'll do whatever it takes. 32 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:44,479 Speaker 2: The cost of IVF can vary wildly depending on where 33 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 2: you live, the kind of reproductive assistance you need, whether 34 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 2: you have insurance that covers fertility treatments, and whether travel 35 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:55,160 Speaker 2: is involved. If you need a donor egg, like Alice, 36 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 2: it can increase costs even more. In Australia, where the Kemptons, 37 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 2: there are very limited options for egg donation. The country 38 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 2: has some of the most restrictive regulations in the global 39 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:11,600 Speaker 2: egg market. In an effort to prevent exploitation, eggs must 40 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:15,359 Speaker 2: truly be donated there, meaning donors must give up their 41 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:20,240 Speaker 2: eggs altruistically. No payment for the donation is allowed. That 42 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 2: means that finding a donor in Australia can be really hard, 43 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:27,440 Speaker 2: and donation almost always happens between people who know each other. 44 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 2: For Alice and Paul, there was only one family member 45 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:34,239 Speaker 2: they could ask Alice's cousin. 46 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:38,679 Speaker 3: I wrote a really long letter, not because I was 47 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:42,839 Speaker 3: potentially worried about the result, but I wanted to let 48 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 3: her know my true wives not if turn thirty and 49 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 3: we should have kids and you need to help me. 50 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 3: It was this was going to be the biggest gift 51 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 3: someone could give. I sent the letter and I was, 52 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 3: you know, probably nervous as a wered, but still excited 53 00:02:58,919 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 3: as well. 54 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 1: So not nervous. 55 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 3: And anyway, very soon she said, I have been waiting 56 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 3: for this letter for so long, so it was magical. Yeah, 57 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 3: it was. 58 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 1: It was great. 59 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:17,120 Speaker 2: Alice knew the process wouldn't be easy, but they'd do 60 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 2: it together. 61 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 3: I was very keen to live every injection with her 62 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:26,960 Speaker 3: and make sure each step of the way. She constantly 63 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 3: knew that this was the best thing she was ever 64 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 3: going to give someone else. You know, and I'll be 65 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 3: a shoulder to cry on. I'll be a late night 66 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 3: phone call, like anything you're going through. I want to 67 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 3: pretend I'm going through because I can't be the one 68 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 3: at that stage in the early process having the drugs. 69 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 2: So Alice, her cousin, and Paul started IVF and the 70 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 2: path ahead of them while not without challenges, looked promising. 71 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 3: This beginning was awesome. My cousin was super fertile for 72 00:03:56,320 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 3: a geriatric. She's exceptionally healthy. Yes, she's considered geriatric in 73 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 3: the IRVF world. So we would laugh about those words 74 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 3: going around the room because. 75 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:09,640 Speaker 2: She was just like in her mid thirties. 76 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:11,600 Speaker 1: Exactly, and I was blow thirties. 77 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 3: So we we were just positive the whole way until 78 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:21,839 Speaker 3: it wasn't. 79 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 2: This is episode three of The Human Egg Trade, a 80 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:29,280 Speaker 2: special series from Bloomberg's investigations team and the Big Take 81 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:33,680 Speaker 2: podcast about the booming global market for human eggs. A 82 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:37,479 Speaker 2: team of Bloomberg reporters across five continents and eleven countries 83 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:40,559 Speaker 2: have spent the last year trying to understand how human 84 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:44,599 Speaker 2: eggs are donated, bought, sold, and moved around the world. 85 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:48,120 Speaker 2: We've covered how a teenage girl was lured into the 86 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 2: egg trade in India, and how police say women's eggs 87 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 2: were stolen in Greece, cases where egg donation led to 88 00:04:55,720 --> 00:05:00,479 Speaker 2: exploitation and violated local laws. In this episod pisode, we 89 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 2: focus on one couple whose experience navigating the fertility industry 90 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:08,159 Speaker 2: as egg recipients brought them a different set of challenges. 91 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 2: They wanted access to a market they felt offered transparency. 92 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:18,000 Speaker 2: They especially wanted information about potential donors. They wanted the 93 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 2: best they could afford. 94 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 5: They call their son a quarter million dollar baby. 95 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 2: That's Bloomberg investigative reporter Jessica Brice, who spoke extensively with 96 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:29,279 Speaker 2: the Kemptons. 97 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:31,920 Speaker 5: They say, by the time they finished the process with him, 98 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:34,040 Speaker 5: they'd spent about a quarter million dollars. 99 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:37,159 Speaker 2: And did they go into debt. They did go into debt. 100 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 1: Yes. 101 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:43,720 Speaker 2: Today on the show, the exhilarating promise, gutting losses, and 102 00:05:43,839 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 2: extreme cost of one family's journey through the global IVF 103 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:58,599 Speaker 2: market will continue after the break with twenty donated eggs 104 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 2: from Alice's cousin Alison. Paul's IVF journey was off to 105 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 2: an auspicious start with paul sperm. Those twenty eggs made 106 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 2: nine viable embryos. 107 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:10,919 Speaker 1: We put a fresh transfer in. 108 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:15,719 Speaker 3: I was fitting healthy, The embryos were looking awesome according 109 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:20,600 Speaker 3: to the embryologist. And I was pregnant, you know, at 110 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 3: the ten day blood test, and then at the two 111 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 3: week and the three week, in the four and the 112 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 3: five and the sixth and the seven and they ate, 113 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:28,600 Speaker 3: and then there was a heartbeat, and then two weeks 114 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 3: later another heartbeat. 115 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:33,280 Speaker 2: At fourteen weeks, they went in for a checkup. Paul 116 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 2: had been out of town during the first two scants, 117 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:37,480 Speaker 2: so it would be the first time they'd see their 118 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 2: baby's heartbeat together. Alice works as a veterinarian, so she 119 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 2: knows how to read an ultrasound. 120 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:49,160 Speaker 3: And so from the minute that lady put the probe bond, 121 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:54,480 Speaker 3: I didn't say heartbeat. And Paul was sitting next to 122 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:56,080 Speaker 3: me and he hadn't been in one yet, and he's 123 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:59,240 Speaker 3: holding my hand, and I was like, I remember, just 124 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 3: it's dead. 125 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:03,359 Speaker 1: It's dead, it's dead. And Paul was still asking questions, Oh, 126 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 1: what's that? What's that? 127 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:08,239 Speaker 3: And the lady obviously has to do a thorough scan, 128 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 3: so she still has to on her report, right, what's 129 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 3: in the top right, the top left, the bottom right, 130 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 3: the butt? 131 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 1: And I was like, get off my tummy, you know, 132 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 1: and just tell me what I know. 133 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 4: I still remember it very clearly. That first first loss 134 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 4: was really hard, and I knew it would be really 135 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 4: really taxing and heard on OL and obviously for both 136 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 4: of us, but you know, I felt like, you know, 137 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:36,680 Speaker 4: keep positive, keep the faith. 138 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:41,560 Speaker 2: The captains still had eight viable embryos, so they tried 139 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:47,200 Speaker 2: again and again and again. Over eighteen months, Alice went 140 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 2: through a total of seven IVF cycles. She got pregnant 141 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 2: five times, and she had five mess carriages. 142 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 1: And they were horrendous. 143 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:03,120 Speaker 3: I became a very bitter person and very glass half 144 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 3: empty when that was not me prior for probably the 145 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 3: next year. So I definitely went through what did I 146 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 3: do to lose this? 147 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:14,240 Speaker 6: You know? 148 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 3: Did I do too much core exercise? Was it playing tennis? 149 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 3: Or what did I eat or what? 150 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:20,240 Speaker 5: Like? 151 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 1: What you idiot? You didn't get enough sleep? 152 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 5: You know? 153 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 1: Did I kill this? You know? 154 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 3: So that is a horrible self reflection to do, but 155 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 3: everyone would do that. I feel I've never met someone 156 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:35,200 Speaker 3: that has a miscarriage without questioning that. 157 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:39,440 Speaker 2: People around her, people close to her, started to ask 158 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:41,440 Speaker 2: if she and Paul were going too far. 159 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 3: I had beautiful friends and found me to lean on. 160 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 3: But even by this stage, you know, your seventh one, 161 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:51,760 Speaker 3: when you've got so far, I kept getting pregnant. Families 162 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:54,200 Speaker 3: even starting to say, are you guys flogging a dead horse? 163 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 3: You know, like, what's what's your thought process here? And 164 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 3: then you just keep looking at them in the and 165 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:05,240 Speaker 3: say I've got pregnant. Specialists say I'm not flogging a 166 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:10,040 Speaker 3: dead horse. And the highs to the carrot dangling is 167 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:13,440 Speaker 3: to gold, you know, so you press on. 168 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 2: Eventually there were no embryos left, and when Paul and 169 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 2: Alice asked her cousin if she'd donate another round of eggs, 170 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 2: she told them she couldn't go through it again. Alice 171 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 2: and Paul had gone as far down the IVF path 172 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:34,199 Speaker 2: as they could. Given their circumstances and Australia's restrictions, They 173 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 2: didn't know anyone else they could ask. They decided they'd 174 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 2: need to go abroad. That would mean new possibilities, but 175 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 2: also navigating new regulatory frameworks. It would also mean new costs. 176 00:09:49,040 --> 00:10:01,360 Speaker 2: That's after the break in their home country Australia. Alison 177 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 2: Paul Kempton had gone as far as they could to 178 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:06,600 Speaker 2: have a child through IVF, so they decided to look 179 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:09,840 Speaker 2: at clinics in other parts of the world. They both 180 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 2: have fair hair and fair skin and felt it was 181 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:15,199 Speaker 2: important for their baby to look like they did. They 182 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 2: also wanted a donor who shared their active lifestyle, who 183 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:21,200 Speaker 2: had no history of family illness and whose eggs had 184 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 2: already been used to conceive a child. So you looked 185 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:27,839 Speaker 2: at every single potential country outside of Australia that you could. 186 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:30,400 Speaker 1: Yep, we looked at names of clinics. 187 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 3: I have probably forty emails to different clinics in Europe, 188 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:38,400 Speaker 3: about ten to South Africa and lots to America before 189 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:43,680 Speaker 3: we in Inverticomas made a decision to just chase the 190 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 3: American tree because financially it's in a world of its 191 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:52,040 Speaker 3: own for IVF, but for really valid reasons. 192 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:55,319 Speaker 2: The Kemptons had a lot on the line, both emotionally 193 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 2: and financially. They'd already spent a little more than thirty 194 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 2: thousand dollars for IVF in Australia. 195 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:07,080 Speaker 1: Since we were thirty. It's been IRVF. You know, should 196 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:07,920 Speaker 1: we could? We can? 197 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:08,080 Speaker 5: We? 198 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 3: Or is it better for that? While friends were going 199 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:15,320 Speaker 3: on holidays or getting houses or you know, equals in 200 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:18,839 Speaker 3: your profession doing all that, You're like, oh, I really 201 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 3: want to, but our whys is so real? 202 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:22,320 Speaker 5: There? 203 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:26,680 Speaker 2: Why making a family? So even though the US would 204 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:29,440 Speaker 2: easily be the most expensive place to get treatment of 205 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:32,520 Speaker 2: the countries they were looking at, they decided to stretch 206 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 2: for it. 207 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:37,719 Speaker 4: It was the transparency that America has the level of 208 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 4: pre qualifying donors and the information you could get on 209 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 4: them and their family and their siblings and their grandparents. 210 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 4: And that was what certainly got me over the line 211 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:54,680 Speaker 4: and got us over line in terms of going down 212 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 4: that path. 213 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:58,200 Speaker 2: Once they decided on the US, the next up was 214 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 2: to find a donor, and Alice says American doorner agencies 215 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:04,439 Speaker 2: had a dizzying number of options. 216 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:08,800 Speaker 3: At first, I was going to design a child, so 217 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 3: I was looking for Feeno type only, and I was 218 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:14,920 Speaker 3: just like, they're going to be smart, they're going to 219 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:17,360 Speaker 3: be athletic, and they're going to be tall and good looking, 220 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 3: and you know what, Bugat, I'm going to find it. 221 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:20,720 Speaker 1: I'm going to do this. 222 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 2: But it wasn't just photos. She was also sifting through 223 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:25,680 Speaker 2: family medical histories. 224 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:29,560 Speaker 3: I was definitely looking at photos at first for months, 225 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:32,079 Speaker 3: and then after a photo I would read and as 226 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:34,559 Speaker 3: I said, extensive medical and I'd be like, oh, wow, 227 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:38,880 Speaker 3: that poor family. You know, her cousin and her cousin's 228 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:41,800 Speaker 3: mum have both had breast cancer, you know, and we 229 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:44,320 Speaker 3: know that there is a breast cancer chain. So that's 230 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:46,480 Speaker 3: when I might say Oh, maybe not, because we can 231 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 3: have that choice. And you know that he's horrendous to 232 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:51,959 Speaker 3: people that have to go through that. But if I 233 00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 3: can avoid that, we're so lucky. 234 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:58,599 Speaker 2: Alice says she spent seven months spinning her wheels, struggling 235 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:01,280 Speaker 2: with the weed of the choice she was making. She 236 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 2: was working full time and spending four hours a day 237 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 2: looking at donor profiles. She says it was like a 238 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:10,320 Speaker 2: dating app. You could just keep swiping and swiping and 239 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 2: swiping without making progress. She went to her therapist for advice. 240 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:17,680 Speaker 1: I said, I'm going crazy. How am I going to 241 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 1: make this decision? 242 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:20,080 Speaker 3: Like what if I have to look my kid in 243 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:21,599 Speaker 3: the eye and say, I'm so sorry I made the 244 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:22,360 Speaker 3: wrong decision. 245 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:22,800 Speaker 1: You know. 246 00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 3: I was that the guilt is already there, and because 247 00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:29,959 Speaker 3: you could lego piece this potential designer child together, Paul 248 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 3: would find me up at three am. 249 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 1: You know, just scroll, I think, you know, And I 250 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:34,760 Speaker 1: was exhausted. 251 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:37,720 Speaker 2: Her therapist told her to stop looking at photos and 252 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:40,960 Speaker 2: focus on what was really important to them. And then 253 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 2: one day Alice came upon a profile that seemed special, 254 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:47,720 Speaker 2: right somehow? Do you remember what it was about her 255 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 2: profile that kind of stood up to you. 256 00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:54,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely her name, because most donors are donor A 257 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 3: two one four seven and you never find out their name. 258 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 1: And there was even on the email you don't know Karen. 259 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:06,079 Speaker 3: I was like, oh Karen, cool name, love it, go girl. 260 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 2: Alice took a quick peek at Karen's photo and then 261 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 2: skipped to her medical history, no red flax. 262 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 3: Then I went back to her profile and we reguarded 263 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:16,199 Speaker 3: to read first, and I was like. 264 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:18,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, she likes pizza. This is so cool. 265 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:21,520 Speaker 3: She loves running, like this is my girl, and I 266 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:23,480 Speaker 3: can't wait to tell Paul. And then I looked at 267 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 3: photo and she just a smile. She's this You could 268 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 3: see her jumping out it. You're saying, let me help you. 269 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:31,400 Speaker 3: So I vividly remember that, especially because it's on top of, 270 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 3: you know, eighteen months of trawling and getting very close, 271 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:38,320 Speaker 3: you know, like we had spreadsheets about whether it was 272 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:41,960 Speaker 3: health GPA, and then it was literally like what that 273 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:45,480 Speaker 3: spreadsheet clear, We've found Karen. Paul needs to wake up, 274 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:47,000 Speaker 3: I need to shut we need to get onto this 275 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 3: because she's going to be snapped up. 276 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 5: So Karen Pets is a model from Argentina. 277 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 2: Karen has spoken at length with her colleague Bloomberg reporter 278 00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:57,040 Speaker 2: Jessica Brace. 279 00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 5: She's tall, she's charismatics, she's really smart, she's very nice. 280 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:04,640 Speaker 1: And she's she's gorgeous. 281 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 2: And she's also a superproducer. A super producer, a donor 282 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 2: who produces far more than the typical fifteen to twenty 283 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 2: eggs each cycle. 284 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 5: Her first donation was in January twenty nineteen. 285 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 1: She was twenty six years. 286 00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 5: Old, and she flew to Los Angeles. She was paid 287 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:26,080 Speaker 5: six thousand dollars. She the retrieval yielded forty five eggs, 288 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:29,480 Speaker 5: and somehow word got out. She still doesn't know exactly 289 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 5: how word got out. But within a week or two, 290 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:38,800 Speaker 5: this agency called Growing Generations called her up and they said, oh, 291 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 5: we want to represent you. 292 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 2: Which meant she could charge a lot more per cycle, 293 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 2: tens of thousands of dollars. But Karen told Jessica it 294 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 2: wasn't just about the money. 295 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:52,240 Speaker 5: This sort of gives her more purpose in life. We 296 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:55,680 Speaker 5: spoke to a lot of egg donors who are very 297 00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:58,240 Speaker 5: open about saying I only do this for the money. 298 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 5: It's an easy way to make a lot of money, 299 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 5: and that's not necessarily Karen's case, although she does get 300 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:08,920 Speaker 5: paid and compensated very well, just because she is, you know, 301 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:10,200 Speaker 5: such an elite donor. 302 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 2: So elite that the Kemptons worried lots of other people 303 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:16,160 Speaker 2: might want Karen's eggs too, so they rushed to reach 304 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 2: out to her agency before someone else did. 305 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:20,800 Speaker 3: And literally, Paul, I can't remember how long you looked 306 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:21,600 Speaker 3: at her profile, but. 307 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 1: Then he's like, right, we need to, we need to, 308 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:24,120 Speaker 1: we need to emig it. 309 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:24,320 Speaker 6: Now. 310 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 1: I was like, I'm doing I'll do I'll do it, 311 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:25,800 Speaker 1: I'll do it. 312 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 4: Do it. 313 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 2: A representative from the donor agency helped Alice and Paul 314 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 2: exchange letters with Karen, and once that went well, Alice 315 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:35,080 Speaker 2: wanted to take it one step further. 316 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 3: I said, would she ever mate with us in scott 317 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:40,520 Speaker 3: And she said, look, it's it's really not done, but 318 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:41,520 Speaker 3: I've got to go back to Karen. 319 00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 1: And Karen was for it. 320 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 2: The meeting was booked for thirty minutes. 321 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:48,560 Speaker 3: And it was just hysterical, like I talk a lot, 322 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:52,840 Speaker 3: but so is Karen, and we were just and with 323 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 3: Paul like he was able to chime in. It wasn't 324 00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:56,520 Speaker 3: as it was just two girls with three of us 325 00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:57,120 Speaker 3: were just chatting. 326 00:16:57,160 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 1: Kenny Kenny Kenny. 327 00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:01,560 Speaker 2: Suddenly time was up. The donor agency said they had 328 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:02,560 Speaker 2: to end the call. 329 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:04,040 Speaker 1: And we were all like no. 330 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:09,200 Speaker 2: Karen and the Kemptons were in They all boarded flights 331 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:13,439 Speaker 2: to Portland, Oregon, Karen from Argentina and the Kemptons from Australia. 332 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:18,480 Speaker 2: Alice says half her suitcase held presents for Karen. They 333 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:21,840 Speaker 2: met for pizza. It was August of twenty nineteen. 334 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:24,080 Speaker 1: Mating her was awesome. 335 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:26,280 Speaker 3: We literally, I think we walked up to each other 336 00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 3: in the restaurant and gave each other a big hug 337 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 3: and then there was just no awkwardness. It wasn't like, oh, 338 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:34,680 Speaker 3: what do you do in the afternoons? It was just 339 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 3: straighting to banter. 340 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 2: The three of them swap numbers and started a WhatsApp 341 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:42,400 Speaker 2: group chat. This was the kind of openness and connectedness 342 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:45,960 Speaker 2: the Kemptons had hoped to find pursuing IVF in the US, 343 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:49,000 Speaker 2: But in the back of her mind, Alice says she 344 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:52,880 Speaker 2: had concerns. Not long before they made the trip to Portland, 345 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:56,480 Speaker 2: Paul had been hospitalized with the flu, and they worried 346 00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 2: the fever could have affected the viability of his sperm. 347 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:03,280 Speaker 3: I had this parrot in my head, just saying, remember 348 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:06,400 Speaker 3: Paul had the flu in Australia, so I was nervous 349 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:10,480 Speaker 3: and really drilling the clinic question wise, like you know, 350 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:12,439 Speaker 3: we're not questioning what Karen has to go through, but 351 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:14,879 Speaker 3: like I'm going to say, you, for the six or 352 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 3: seventh time, we are happy to do a freeze all 353 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:20,479 Speaker 3: egg cycle, like Paul really fried that sperm, you know, 354 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:21,440 Speaker 3: like he was sick. 355 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:24,879 Speaker 2: The Kemptons didn't want to take any chances. They felt 356 00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:28,320 Speaker 2: like this was their only shot. They'd paid twenty five 357 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:32,000 Speaker 2: thousand US dollars for Karen's fee, plus a seventeen thousand 358 00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:35,639 Speaker 2: dollars agency fee. Then there were fifteen thousand dollars in 359 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:39,320 Speaker 2: travel costs to bring Karen to the US. The clinic 360 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:43,800 Speaker 2: charged another forty thousand dollars for the procedures Karen's agg retrieval, 361 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:48,240 Speaker 2: Paul's sperm collection, fertilizing the egg. Add in expenses for 362 00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:51,360 Speaker 2: their own plane tickets, hormones for both Karen and Alys, 363 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:55,240 Speaker 2: several weeks of lodging, food, and a car. All in, 364 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 2: the Kemptons had accumulated a debt of more than one 365 00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:03,040 Speaker 2: hundred and seventy thousand dollar. Things had to go well. 366 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:06,960 Speaker 3: At the clinic, you have collection day, so that's go Karen, 367 00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:07,480 Speaker 3: go Paul. 368 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 2: And on Karen's side, things went extremely well. Fifty one 369 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:17,199 Speaker 2: eggs with paul sperm, nineteen became embryos, and then the 370 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 2: kemptins waited for the results of their genetic testing to 371 00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:20,439 Speaker 2: come in. 372 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:22,720 Speaker 4: It was one of the worst old eyes I remember having, 373 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:26,240 Speaker 4: because I could just distrain and agony of waiting. 374 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:30,560 Speaker 3: I was just punching through the motions, trying to enjoy myself, 375 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 3: but just petrified. Each day, I'm like counting down the 376 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:34,720 Speaker 3: day until we actually knew. 377 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:37,240 Speaker 2: Alis and Paul were at the gym when they got 378 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:37,640 Speaker 2: the call. 379 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 1: I was on the treadmill, and. 380 00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:44,240 Speaker 6: The nurses are just so lovely, so they start off 381 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:49,000 Speaker 6: obviously very high, ellis how's your day, and then just wham, 382 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:52,080 Speaker 6: you know, I'm sorry to say none had survived to 383 00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:55,359 Speaker 6: be viable, and I just I don't think I said anything. 384 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:58,880 Speaker 1: I went silent. I got off the treadmill, cried, went 385 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:00,639 Speaker 1: straight up to the room. 386 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:03,440 Speaker 3: And then I didn't leave my computer. I just went 387 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:06,320 Speaker 3: straight into you know, how did this happen? 388 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:06,600 Speaker 6: Mode? 389 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:08,800 Speaker 3: And I'm going to find out how, and I'm going 390 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:12,720 Speaker 3: to make someone accountable because we knew we'd never. 391 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:15,200 Speaker 1: Be able to do it again financially, Like you know. 392 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:18,679 Speaker 3: We knew from before we even while you're still positive, 393 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:20,439 Speaker 3: you're not talking about it because the thought that you 394 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:21,560 Speaker 3: have to do it again isn't there. 395 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 1: But we both knew. 396 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:29,159 Speaker 4: We always knew America was our last chance. And I 397 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:32,679 Speaker 4: remember just needing to walk, go for walk by myself, 398 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:35,440 Speaker 4: giving our space and myself space. Like I just thought 399 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:38,680 Speaker 4: it was very devastating at that point, and we thought 400 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:39,360 Speaker 4: that was the end. 401 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:39,720 Speaker 1: Really. 402 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:42,680 Speaker 2: One of the first things they did was let Karen 403 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:43,800 Speaker 2: know what had happened. 404 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:45,520 Speaker 1: I think her first words were, what can I do 405 00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:45,920 Speaker 1: to help? 406 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 3: She was very quick to say I will donate for free, 407 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:53,479 Speaker 3: like so quick, you know, it wasn't even me asking. 408 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:55,359 Speaker 1: She's like, well, I'll do it again. 409 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:58,879 Speaker 2: The donor agency ultimately got involved and wouldn't let Karen 410 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:01,840 Speaker 2: donate for free, but they did offer the Kemptons a 411 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:05,760 Speaker 2: twenty percent discount on the agency fee. The clinic's medical 412 00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:09,240 Speaker 2: director said in an interview with Bloomberg, quote, we work 413 00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:12,240 Speaker 2: with compromised sperm all the time. We thought it was 414 00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:15,359 Speaker 2: a reasonable plan to move forward at the time, he 415 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 2: wrote the Kemptons to let them know how disappointed their 416 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:20,960 Speaker 2: whole team was in the outcome, and the clinic offered 417 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 2: them a second cycle with Karen's eggs for free. Even so, 418 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:27,840 Speaker 2: the Kemptons had to come up with more money for 419 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:32,399 Speaker 2: Karen's second retrieval. Their debt was now approaching two hundred 420 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:34,160 Speaker 2: and fifty thousand dollars. 421 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:38,679 Speaker 3: We found out on New Year's Eve morning that we 422 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:43,960 Speaker 3: had four genetically beautiful embryos. 423 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:46,000 Speaker 2: And less than a year later, in late twenty twenty, 424 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:48,879 Speaker 2: the Kempton's son, Rupert, was born. 425 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:50,280 Speaker 6: It was. 426 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:54,240 Speaker 1: The best best day of my life. 427 00:21:54,480 --> 00:22:00,959 Speaker 4: Like you know, it's just amazing to have fallen in 428 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:04,040 Speaker 4: love with someone that you love so much, to go 429 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 4: through that heartache that we have over a number of years, 430 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 4: and then to actually. 431 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:11,240 Speaker 1: Hold Rupert that to this day would be. 432 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:14,440 Speaker 4: The most happiest moment of my life. It's an amazing 433 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:16,480 Speaker 4: thrill in an amazing achievement. 434 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:20,919 Speaker 2: And in twenty twenty three, the Captains welcomed a daughter, Matilda. 435 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 2: Both Matilda and her brother were born from the embryos 436 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:26,400 Speaker 2: created from Karen's second ag retrieval. 437 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:30,920 Speaker 3: I've always loved having friends and seeing their kids. 438 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 1: And be like, oh that, that's a little bit of you, Like, 439 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:33,840 Speaker 1: I love looking at that. 440 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:37,000 Speaker 3: And so I definitely look at Rupert and Matilda and 441 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 3: I'm like, where's Paul, Where's Karen, where's me? 442 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:42,919 Speaker 2: Alice says she sees all three of them and the kids. 443 00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 3: I'm headstrong. Yes, Matilda is headstrong. Karen might be headstrong Paul, 444 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:50,240 Speaker 3: but it's her tweak on it, you know. So we 445 00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:53,040 Speaker 3: call Matilda Hurricane because she'll come in. 446 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:55,080 Speaker 1: And Paul Rupert is a very. 447 00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 3: Perfectionist, dedicated, He's a beautiful gentle. And then Matilda comes 448 00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:02,159 Speaker 3: in and is says, I'm knocking that over, you know, 449 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:02,920 Speaker 3: here I come. 450 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:06,800 Speaker 2: In Australia, it's not uncommon for donor conceived people to 451 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:10,320 Speaker 2: know the identity of their donors. Several of the country 452 00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:13,520 Speaker 2: states have passed legislation giving children the right to know 453 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:17,160 Speaker 2: their heritage, and Alis and Paul have embraced that culture 454 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:19,560 Speaker 2: with their kids. They have a world map up in 455 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:22,399 Speaker 2: their home, so Rupert and Matilda can see where Karen 456 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 2: lives in Argentina and where the clinic is in Portland. 457 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:28,439 Speaker 2: And they've been open with the kids about how they 458 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:28,879 Speaker 2: were born. 459 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 3: So we made a decision to make sure we had 460 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 3: picture books from the get go, like age appropriate books 461 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 3: as they go up and even it. 462 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:40,400 Speaker 1: Was important to us for that truthness. 463 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:44,679 Speaker 3: And also we're really proud of how much we love Karen, 464 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:48,440 Speaker 3: like we would not have our family without her. 465 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:52,760 Speaker 2: So in the end, the time, the heartbreak, the money, 466 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:57,680 Speaker 2: it all felt worth it, and the Camptons realize they're 467 00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 2: lucky they were able to pay for it all. How 468 00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:06,040 Speaker 2: did you manage to find the money to fund this journey? 469 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:10,159 Speaker 4: I mean, over the course of our whole UF journey 470 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 4: it would be half a mil and over a number 471 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:16,920 Speaker 4: of years. 472 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:21,040 Speaker 2: That's about half a million Australian dollars, which is just 473 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 2: over three hundred thousand US dollars. 474 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:26,440 Speaker 4: And a lot of that has been our own savings, 475 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:30,160 Speaker 4: but we've had a fair chunk towards the end, which 476 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:33,679 Speaker 4: involved the America which we've had to borrow. And you know, 477 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 4: rather see it as it as an upfront amount, you 478 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 4: sort of look at it over the course of your 479 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:43,119 Speaker 4: whole life. I think you only live once and you 480 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 4: only have one chance of having a family. And yes, 481 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:50,439 Speaker 4: it's a lot of money up front, but it's an 482 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:58,600 Speaker 4: investment in your future. It's an investment in Your Life. 483 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 2: That was the third episode in The Human Egg Trade, 484 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:07,359 Speaker 2: our special series about the booming global market for human eggs. 485 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:10,480 Speaker 2: For more in depth reporting on how the human egg 486 00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:14,160 Speaker 2: has become a precious resource traded around the world, read 487 00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:17,760 Speaker 2: The Egg, an investigation by Bloomberg BusinessWeek and The Big Take. 488 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:21,240 Speaker 2: You can read The Egg on the Bloomberg terminal, Bloomberg 489 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:23,919 Speaker 2: dot com or in the January twenty twenty five issue 490 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:28,720 Speaker 2: of Bloomberg BusinessWeek. This is The Big Take from Bloomberg News. 491 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:32,359 Speaker 2: I'm Sarah Holder. This episode was produced by David Fox. 492 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,919 Speaker 2: It was edited by Tracy Samuelson and Ken Armstrong. It 493 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 2: was fact checked by Naomi Ean and mixed and sound 494 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:42,719 Speaker 2: designed by Alex Sugia. Our senior producer is Naomi Shaven. 495 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 2: Our senior editor is Elizabeth Ponso. Our executive producer is 496 00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:50,440 Speaker 2: Nicole Beemster. Bor Sage Bauman is Bloomberg's head of Podcasts. 497 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:53,480 Speaker 2: If you liked this episode, make sure to subscribe and 498 00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:56,679 Speaker 2: review The Big Take wherever you listen to podcasts. It 499 00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:00,320 Speaker 2: helps people find the show. Thanks for listening. We'll be 500 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:01,160 Speaker 2: back next week.