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Speaker 1: We are joined once again by a senior writer for

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Speaker 1: the Athletic MLB on Fox sideline reporter and insider Ken Rosenthal. Ken,

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Speaker 1: good to be with you. As always, everybody wants to

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Speaker 1: know if one of the highest prospects in terms of

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Speaker 1: Banfair is going to make the team. What can you

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Speaker 1: say Connor Griffin Pirates breaking with the big league club.

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Speaker 2: From the indications we're getting from their quotes, it seems

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Speaker 2: the answer is no. Now, he's having an interesting spring.

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Speaker 2: He's hitting not great, but he has four home runs,

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Speaker 2: ten strikeouts, zero walks. That's always alarming for any young

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Speaker 2: player when he's not walking. Now, at the same time,

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Speaker 2: the Pirates have to ask themselves, is this the best

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Speaker 2: shortstop that we have? Is this the best shortstop we

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Speaker 2: could put on our roster and be most competitive that way.

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Speaker 2: That's a good question because they don't have great all alternatives.

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Speaker 2: Jarrett Triolo and Nick Gonzalez are major league players, no

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Speaker 2: question about it, But Connor Griffin obviously represents the greatest upside.

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Speaker 2: Now there is another element here, and it's really interesting.

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Speaker 2: So if you remember with Paul Skeens, he wasn't ready

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Speaker 2: to come up opening day or at least, the Pirates

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Speaker 2: didn't deem him ready to come up opening day. They

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Speaker 2: held him out until mid May, and then he came

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Speaker 2: up in mid May one Rookie of the Year regardless.

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Speaker 2: So by winning Rookie of the Year, he got a

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Speaker 2: full year of service time even though he wasn't active

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Speaker 2: for a full year. That's the rule under the CBA

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Speaker 2: right now. And because he didn't make the opening day

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Speaker 2: roster or was in the majors by April tenth, the

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Speaker 2: Pirates did not get the draft pick that they would

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Speaker 2: get by the Prospect Promotion Incentive Program, So they kind

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Speaker 2: of got nailed both ways in a negative sense. They

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Speaker 2: didn't get the draft pick, and he got a full

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Speaker 2: year of service. I don't know that that will be

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Speaker 2: a major consideration with Griffin, but it probably should be

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Speaker 2: a consideration with the Pirates, and I'm sure they're thinking

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Speaker 2: about it now. The other element, and there's a lot

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Speaker 2: of elements here, if they signed Connor Griffin to an extension,

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Speaker 2: they would probably do it after opening Day because he

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Speaker 2: would remain eligible for the Prospect Promotion Incentive Program and

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Speaker 2: the Pirates would remain eligible for that pick. But if

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Speaker 2: they do that, the question then becomes okay, are you

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Speaker 2: dangling that? So you'll say to him, you're on the

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Speaker 2: roster if you sign this contract. It's been done before.

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Speaker 2: So as I said, there is a lot going on here.

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Speaker 2: And there's another prospect in Detroit's camp, Kevin McGonagall, who

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Speaker 2: it looks like is going to make their team. He's

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Speaker 2: kind of the number two prospect in the sport. He's

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Speaker 2: having a monster spring in many ways, more strikeouts, sorry,

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Speaker 2: more walks than strikeouts. He is in a different place

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Speaker 2: than Griffin from that perspective, and he's playing terrific defense

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Speaker 2: on the left side. So these are both fascinating decisions,

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Speaker 2: and we'll see how they play out. But the Griffin

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Speaker 2: one to me, because he hasn't exactly torn it up.

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Speaker 2: The Pirates can have the excuse, well, we don't want them,

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Speaker 2: but it might hurt themselves in the end if he

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Speaker 2: indeed wins Rookie of the Year and they don't have

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Speaker 2: him the whole year.

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Speaker 3: There's so many things unpacked with the Connor Griffin thing.

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Speaker 3: Or are they talking about extensions? You know, anytime you talk

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Speaker 3: about a young guy like that, is there a date

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Speaker 3: that it goes past that they could hold Connor Griffin

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Speaker 3: down because the fear was always manipulation. But is there

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Speaker 3: a date, like if they hold him till June fifteenth,

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Speaker 3: it makes it way tougher to win Rookie of the Year.

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Speaker 3: But is there a date that could hold him down

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Speaker 3: so that it would be a form of type of manipulation.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and it is probably late June when you would

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Speaker 2: get not only the service time implication, you're holding him

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Speaker 2: down preventing him from winning Rookie of the Year and

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Speaker 2: him getting that full year of service. And you're also

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Speaker 2: at that point preventing him from becoming a Super two

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Speaker 2: in arbitration. So there are those incentives still in place.

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Speaker 2: But my goodness, the Pirates have finally spent some money

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Speaker 2: this offseason. They are clearly trying in the way that

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Speaker 2: they try to compete. You're going to hold this kid

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Speaker 2: down until late June when other teams see him as

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Speaker 2: a hugely valuable player right now, so I don't see

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Speaker 2: that happening.

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Speaker 4: Eric.

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Speaker 2: Yes, they can do it, but it is not in

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Speaker 2: their interests to do it. And it is a complicated

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Speaker 2: question because this is his age twenty season. There aren't

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Speaker 2: many players who have come up and had five hundred

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Speaker 2: at bats in their age twenty season, and if they

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Speaker 2: are seeing things and spring training that make them feel

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Speaker 2: he needs more development, well that's a legitimate thing and

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Speaker 2: you can't fault them for that. So it's a complicated question,

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Speaker 2: a really interesting one, and we'll see how in the

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Speaker 2: final days of spring it all kind of plays out.

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Speaker 5: Is it technically just age twenty season? This is my question.

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Speaker 3: But because he's nineteen, if you start a season, are

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Speaker 3: you technically age nineteen season?

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Speaker 2: No, it's June first, is the date? Okay, okay, becomes

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Speaker 2: a different or maybe it's de live first. I'm not sure,

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Speaker 2: but this is his age twenty season. I think his

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Speaker 2: birthday is in May if I'm not mistaken. So technically

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Speaker 2: it is his age twenty season, and that's how baseball

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Speaker 2: does it. I believe it's delive first, correct me if

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Speaker 2: I'm wrong with somebody out there, but I think that's

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Speaker 2: when it kicks over.

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Speaker 3: My last question with Connor Griffin is are they waiting

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Speaker 3: for him to be a superstar? Because the whole thing is, oh,

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Speaker 3: you know, they haven't quite done it. And I get it,

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Speaker 3: you know, he hasn't walked and all this stuff, But

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Speaker 3: are they waiting for him to be a superstar to

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Speaker 3: call him up, because to me, that feels like that's

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Speaker 3: a big ask at nineteen years old.

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Speaker 2: Maybe they want to see him dominate triple A. I

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Speaker 2: can see that he hasn't played a triple A yet.

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Speaker 2: But at the same time, the question they have to ask,

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Speaker 2: and again it's complicated. What is best for the player

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Speaker 2: right now and what is best for the team right now.

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Speaker 2: It might be best for the player to go back down,

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Speaker 2: but for the team, well, maybe it's best to keep him,

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Speaker 2: keep that draft pick possibility alive because you didn't get one.

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Speaker 2: With schemes. There are all these different parts of the

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Speaker 2: equation here that they have to consider. And if you're

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Speaker 2: Ben Sherrington, you're their president based operations, You're saying to yourself, Okay,

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Speaker 2: what's best for the kid, And maybe he is determined

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Speaker 2: or will determine that what is best for the kid

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Speaker 2: is for him to get more minor league development. Well,

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Speaker 2: there are consequences to that, perhaps for the Pittsburgh Pirates,

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Speaker 2: and Sherrington has to weigh that too.

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Speaker 1: About the Atlanta Braves and Jerks and Profar with the

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Speaker 1: suspension obviously for the ped use and then of course

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Speaker 1: the appeal not going his way. What do the braves

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Speaker 1: do moving forward without him? And is there a scenario

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Speaker 1: in which he comes back after the suspension is served.

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Speaker 2: That is a good question, a lota. I have a

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Speaker 2: hard time believing it. At that point, I'll have a

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Speaker 2: year left on his contract fifteen million. If on them,

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Speaker 2: I eat it. I don't worry about going forward with

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Speaker 2: Jerks and Profar. At that point, he has compromised them enough.

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Speaker 2: Now what do they do is the question. And they

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Speaker 2: were waiting for resolution on the appeal before determining whether

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Speaker 2: to go forward and spend some more money. Look at

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Speaker 2: different options. They could take the fifteen million that he

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Speaker 2: is due and distributed elsewhere, or they could also pocket

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Speaker 2: it for the deadline and have a lot of money

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Speaker 2: to spend at the deadline. There are all kinds of

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Speaker 2: things that they can do. Lucas Giolito is still out there.

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Speaker 2: This is a team that needs starting pitching, that's one thing.

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Speaker 2: As for the outfield, they've got Yustroemsky. They signed him.

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Speaker 2: So it's Yastremsky, and it's Michael Harris, it's Ronald Lacunya.

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Speaker 2: Not bad. You might want a little bit more depth.

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Speaker 2: You might want to go get an outfielder, and there

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Speaker 2: are out of options guys who might be available. There

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Speaker 2: are minor league free agents with opt outs that might

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Speaker 2: be available, or you might be able to make a

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Speaker 2: trade for something more significant. Mike Yustreemsky was not signed

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Speaker 2: to be an everyday player, but it's not as if

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Speaker 2: they are totally bear there. And now that they have

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Speaker 2: this resolution, they know that he will be suspended for

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Speaker 2: one hundred and sixty two games, they at least can

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Speaker 2: be certain with where they are financially. And I would

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Speaker 2: imagine I don't know this for a fact, but I

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Speaker 2: would imagine they were waiting for this because they wanted

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Speaker 2: to know for sure that, yes, we will not be

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Speaker 2: paying Jerks and profar, and that is the answer. They

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Speaker 2: will not be paying jerks and Profar.

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Speaker 3: What have we been missing since we've been watching the

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Speaker 3: shiny bright object of the WBC. What are some of

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Speaker 3: the storylines that, oh, yeah, spring training has still been

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Speaker 3: going on that now we're thrust back into spring training essentially.

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Speaker 2: Abs for sure, and that's going to be a story

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Speaker 2: in the early part of the season, no question about it.

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Speaker 2: I don't know that we're missing anything. Eric, regarding major

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Speaker 2: storylines in spring training. I always feel spring training, Okay,

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Speaker 2: we watch it, it's kind of a mirage. We don't

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Speaker 2: know what we're seeing doesn't really matter, but once the

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Speaker 2: season begins, yes, the storylines come into play, and certainly

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Speaker 2: there are a lot of new managers in place, Tony

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Speaker 2: Vtello the most prominent among them with the San Francisco Giants.

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Speaker 2: There are players coming back from injuries that we'll be

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Speaker 2: looking for, Garrett Cole, Corbyn Burns, Zach Wheeler, all the

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Speaker 2: guys who had the Hanfe fractures as well Lindor and

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Speaker 2: Jackson Holliday. So there are all kinds of things brewing,

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Speaker 2: and perhaps we'll see some extensions in the next week

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Speaker 2: as well. It's kind of the time of year for that.

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Speaker 2: But until the season begins, what we're watching in spring

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Speaker 2: is kind of of little consequence unless players get hurt,

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Speaker 2: players come back healthy, trades are made something along those lines.

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Speaker 3: Can we go to the Blue Jays pitching rotation because

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Speaker 3: they have a lot of people, They have a lot

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Speaker 3: of guys down with Bieber going down with now Treya

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Speaker 3: Savage news Do we feel like the Jays kind of

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Speaker 3: saw some of this coming because of the fact of

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Speaker 3: how many guys they got and then January thirtieth, they

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Speaker 3: signed Max Scherzer that they felt like, we're not going

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Speaker 3: to be a full strength right out of the gate.

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Speaker 2: Yes, they knew Bieber was not right. And the day

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Speaker 2: he exercised that player option for next year, coming off

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Speaker 2: a pretty good year, when he could have gone to

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Speaker 2: free agency and probably gotten a multi year deal, the

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Speaker 2: entire industry knew something was up there. There was no

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Speaker 2: reason for him to make that decision from a financial

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Speaker 2: standpoint if he was healthy, So they knew that going in.

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Speaker 2: They also knew you Savage at the very least would

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Speaker 2: need to be slow played, because of course he pitched

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Speaker 2: a lot of innings last year, a lot of high

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Speaker 2: stress innings toward the end of the year. Barrios also

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Speaker 2: ended the year hurt, and it couldn't have been sure

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Speaker 2: about him either, So Eric, you're onto something there. They

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Speaker 2: did have a sense that there were some possible problems,

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Speaker 2: and that was one motivation for signing Scherzer obviously, and

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Speaker 2: Cody ponce before that. And they'll un cease. They're in

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Speaker 2: a good spot as far as the depth. We see

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Speaker 2: that they have a legit rotation even without burials and

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Speaker 2: Bieber and Bowden Francis and now you're Savage but the

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Speaker 2: depth is something that they're going to need and something

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Speaker 2: that will obviously be more in jeopardy if another picture

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Speaker 2: gets hurt. They're okay now, but they're kind of one

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Speaker 2: picture away from one injury away from having a major problem.

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Speaker 1: Ken Eric and I at the top of the show,

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Speaker 1: we're talking about the New York Mets perhaps implementing more

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Speaker 1: of the relay system of pitches in the dugout. We

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Speaker 1: talked to Susan Slesser about it as to whether the

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Speaker 1: Giants would do that, being that Vitello obviously is a

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Speaker 1: college coach and that type of thing. In your estimation,

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Speaker 1: is that something that more clubs perhaps would do. We

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Speaker 1: knew the Marlins have done it. The met are toying

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Speaker 1: with it. They're working through something. Susan doesn't think unless

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Speaker 1: it's like a rule five catcher that's going to be implemented.

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Speaker 1: What's your estimation of how many clubs might actually use this.

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Speaker 2: I would say minimal number, a lot, and it should

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Speaker 2: be a minimal number. Goodness, gracious, aj Prizidski. All of

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Speaker 2: these catchers out there, they know what they're doing. They

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Speaker 2: can react to the game in a better sense than

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Speaker 2: someone from the bench. Can they are reading swings in

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Speaker 2: a better way because they're trained in this, they're experienced

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Speaker 2: at it, then some coach who's calling a pitch. I

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Speaker 2: don't like it.

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Speaker 4: To me.

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Speaker 2: It removes even more instincts from the game, and we've

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Speaker 2: done enough of that already. So I'd be interested to

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Speaker 2: hear Eric's thoughts on this, because to me, it's unnecessary. Now,

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Speaker 2: if you have a rookie catcher or an inexperienced catcher,

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Speaker 2: a different story perhaps, but get entire game should not

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Speaker 2: be run from the dugout. It's ridiculous to me.

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Speaker 3: I'm monologued for like five minutes on a ken at

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Speaker 3: the top of the show, so I'll give you the

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Speaker 3: cliff notes version. I don't like it, but I'm also

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Speaker 3: open to making sure that the team plays the best

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Speaker 3: that they can possibly play. So I'm not as if

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Speaker 3: Aj who was called prickly by Susan plusher earlier show

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Speaker 3: that like, if he was on he would say, now,

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Speaker 3: I hate it, I can't stand it, you know, get

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Speaker 3: off my lawn kind of thing.

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Speaker 5: I was a little bit less hate it and more

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Speaker 5: just don't like.

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Speaker 2: It, okay, And I can understand what you're saying there

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Speaker 2: it makes a lot of sense. Of course, if it's

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Speaker 2: going to help the team win, yes, you'd be on board.

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Speaker 2: My feeling is though, that the catcher has the best

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Speaker 2: sense of what's going on, and if you've got to

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Speaker 2: catcher like j Triobuto, just as one example, you're not

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Speaker 2: messing with him. Now again, younger catcher, different story, but

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Speaker 2: it's problematic for me. I kind of still feel the

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Speaker 2: catcher has the best sense and that's the way the

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Speaker 2: game should be played.

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Speaker 3: I agree, And I gotta ask you, is this next

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Speaker 3: topic problematic for contracts for players? Danny Kloom had agreed

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Speaker 3: to a contract and then the physicals came back. We

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Speaker 3: don't know exactly what it was, but there was something questionable.

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Speaker 3: Both the player and the team were amenable on this,

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Speaker 3: that he's going to get a million guaranteed but possibly

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Speaker 3: still get up to the two point five and incentives.

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Speaker 3: Isn't this bad for or could it be problematic because

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Speaker 3: now teams are willing to say, well, hey, if you

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Speaker 3: want this contract, you're gonna have to earn it, which

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Speaker 3: is the best for teams and could be kind of

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Speaker 3: a worst case scenario for players.

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Speaker 2: Eric, This is not that unusual. This does happen from

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Speaker 2: time to time. We don't always hear about it when

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Speaker 2: a player has something in his physical that gets flagged

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Speaker 2: by the team and then they adjust the contract. In

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Speaker 2: this case, we heard about it. Obviously. If you're a player,

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Speaker 2: you're concerned, and if you're a prominent player who is

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Speaker 2: in demand, you're in a better situation than Danny Coolan was,

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Speaker 2: although of course we've seen this with Korea several years

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Speaker 2: ago as well, where those contracts weren't adjusted when the

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Speaker 2: Giants and Mets flagged his physicals. They just backed out

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Speaker 2: and then he ultimately signed with the Twins. But it

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Speaker 2: is something where, yes, teams can take advantage of it,

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Speaker 2: but if you've got a competitive situation, you're going to

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Speaker 2: see another team jump in and say, you know what,

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Speaker 2: that's not that bad. We can assume this risk here

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Speaker 2: with this physical issue that we've identified, and it's not

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Speaker 2: that big a deal. So I don't see this as

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Speaker 2: particularly uncommon. I don't know that it happens more than

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Speaker 2: three or four times an offseason, if that. But it's

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Speaker 2: not a first time situation. Where Danny kolom was in

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Speaker 2: this position, it was first time perhaps for him, but

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Speaker 2: not in general. For the game.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it seems like in essence, Ken, if he can

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Speaker 1: stay healthy, then he'll have the opportunity to get those

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Speaker 1: incentives back and the Red Slacks sign him at a

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Speaker 1: very low risk one million dollars. Can We always appreciate

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Speaker 1: everything you bring to the inside Scoop. Have a tremendous weekend.

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Speaker 1: Don't forget guys. Ken is back with Fair Territory on

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Speaker 1: Monday and Thursdays. Right here on the Foul to the

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Speaker 1: Foul Territory YouTube channel. We'll be right back after this.

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Speaker 1: We are now joined by a senior writer of The Athletic,

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Speaker 1: Andy McCullough, the worst half of Stephanie Epstein. Good to

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Speaker 1: see you, Andy, Good to be with you. I want

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Speaker 1: to ask you about your article, the twenty twenty six

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Speaker 1: aces project MLB Insiders rank starting pitchers. Who's just a

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Speaker 1: guy and who is number one? You collaborated on this?

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Speaker 1: Tell us more about the rankings my friends.

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Speaker 4: Sure, thank you, Anna, I do I also prefer my

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Speaker 4: wife to me. Yeah. So, for the last like seven years.

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Speaker 7: Now, when my colleagues at the Athletic, we've been trying

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Speaker 7: to kind of do this project of just to determine

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Speaker 7: like who are the best pictures in baseball. And so

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Speaker 7: I do it these days with Will Salmon and Sahadivsharma

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Speaker 7: and we basically have a pool of like twenty executives,

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Speaker 7: scouts analysts. We try and kind of have a diverse

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Speaker 7: array of opinions and we send them a list of pictures.

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Speaker 7: This year was ninety pitchers, and we just kind of ask,

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Speaker 7: you know, for them to put a scouting grade one

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Speaker 7: through five, you know, on each guy, and it takes

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Speaker 7: a lot of time on their end, and so.

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Speaker 4: We really appreciate it.

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Speaker 7: And you know, the idea is like you come out

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Speaker 7: with like, okay, if you get twenty people know who

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Speaker 7: work in baseball, right, how many of them? Like, how

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Speaker 7: many pictures are unanimously number one? So does everyone we

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Speaker 7: can find, you know, is considered an ace. And this

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Speaker 7: year we had you know, two is Trek Scugle and

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Speaker 7: Paul Skean's not a shock, I think to anyone.

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Speaker 4: Scooble was unanimous last year as well. Skeens was like

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Speaker 4: one vote short.

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Speaker 7: Maybe, but it's just like it's it's a really interesting

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Speaker 7: way to kind of just try and rank pictures, you know,

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Speaker 7: to think about how you know scouts and executives see

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Speaker 7: them and to.

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Speaker 4: Just try and find a consensus.

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Speaker 3: Basically, what, Okay, so you compiled all this information. Where

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Speaker 3: are your where are your rankings? Are you a Alana

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Speaker 3: Rizzo big pile of aces or you a Eric Kratz.

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Speaker 5: There's not many aces in the in the game.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, I'm I'm a small ace guy or a small

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Speaker 7: hall guy.

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Speaker 4: Whatever.

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Speaker 7: Yes, I'm on your side, Cratsy.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 7: And I this is this whole project kind of morphed

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Speaker 7: of this dinner we used to have at spring training

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Speaker 7: like ten years ago, where a bunch of writers would

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Speaker 7: get around and.

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Speaker 4: Like argue about this, and I, you know, there was

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Speaker 4: like aces, there's number twos, there's number threes, number fours, whatever.

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Speaker 7: And I created this category called applicants, which is basically,

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Speaker 7: if you pitch like an ace for a season, you

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Speaker 7: have you are formally applying to become an ace. And

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Speaker 7: so you know you kind of have to do it again, right,

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Speaker 7: you can just like beat great for one year and

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Speaker 7: then all of a sudden you're a number one. The

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Speaker 7: whole point of being an ace is there's like a

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Speaker 7: track record of sustained success. And so from my personal rankings,

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Speaker 7: which is worth what I charge from them. The three

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Speaker 7: aces in baseball are Scooble schemes and Garrett Crochet and

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Speaker 7: Yoshinobu Yamamoto and Christopher Sanchez are applicants for the twenty

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Speaker 7: twenty six season, and then I would also have the

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Speaker 7: caveat that with a season of good health and performance,

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Speaker 7: Garrett Cole and Zach Wheeler are automatically re certified as aces.

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Speaker 3: Andy, you and I. You and I are so locked in.

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Speaker 3: I love this, but we need to solidify your list

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Speaker 3: of aces because my my argument is there are six

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Speaker 3: to eight aces. I wouldn't say six to seven because

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Speaker 3: of the kids today, but there you go, six to

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Speaker 3: eight aces in the game at any time. So I

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Speaker 3: put together my list, and I want you to break

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Speaker 3: it down because I completely agree. Yamamoto is a no

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Speaker 3: because I'm black and white.

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Speaker 5: He's a NO. I love your applicants. I love that

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Speaker 5: I love that he can.

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Speaker 4: How did you know?

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Speaker 5: How is he no Dodgers? Dodgers?

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Speaker 1: It has nothing to do with Dodgers. It has nothing

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Speaker 1: to do with Dodgers. He was the World Series MVP.

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Speaker 4: How is he you know?

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Speaker 1: He's the only starter for the Dodgers that that pitched

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Speaker 1: every time the ball was given to him, the only

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Speaker 1: one on the al How is he not an ace?

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Speaker 1: If Showhy wasn't on that list and he didn't even

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Speaker 1: pitch last year, how is it? How is Yamamoto not

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Speaker 1: an ace?

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Speaker 7: Well, so it's not love him, it's not Alana, it's

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Speaker 7: not a talent issue. And again he's applying like he's

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Speaker 7: put in a formal application in the twenty twenty sixth season.

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Speaker 4: But he simply did not.

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Speaker 7: And again, Yamamoto is like the greatest pitcher probably in

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Speaker 7: Japanese history.

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Speaker 4: He won the Solomora three times.

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Speaker 7: You know, like he's shown what he's capable of these

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Speaker 7: past couple of seasons. He's also like never thrown one

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Speaker 7: hundred and eighty innings in a big league season, and

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Speaker 7: that's you know, kind.

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Speaker 1: That like, isn't it somebody that just dominates?

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Speaker 5: Like what it tell me?

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Speaker 1: Again, the criteria make sure.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, it's kind of like the Supreme Court definition of pornography.

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Speaker 4: I guess, like you know, when you see it.

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Speaker 7: I just think no, Like I think I think that

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Speaker 7: you need to, you know, be capable of making at

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Speaker 7: least thirty starts, if not more, you know, one hundred

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Speaker 7: and eighty innings.

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Speaker 4: The more innings the better going deep into games.

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Speaker 7: You know, look, if Yamamoto does what he did last

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Speaker 7: year again this year, that'd be crazy because it'd be

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Speaker 7: really weird to see him pitch on games six and

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Speaker 7: seven of the World.

433
00:21:57,760 --> 00:21:59,800
Speaker 4: Series back to back. But like, if he puts it

434
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:03,119
Speaker 4: another season, yeah, he gets certified as an ACE for me.

435
00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:07,399
Speaker 3: Yes, so okay, so we're on that. That's such a

436
00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:10,119
Speaker 3: great explanation. I'll tell you when you're out of line. Okay,

437
00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:13,359
Speaker 3: any but right now you and I we are. Oh wait, no,

438
00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:16,280
Speaker 3: you're on this side. Now we are. We are together.

439
00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:18,720
Speaker 4: But Southeastern Pennsylvania stay together.

440
00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:27,639
Speaker 3: Yes, Yes, Sanchez is a no for me currently and Crochet.

441
00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:27,960
Speaker 5: Yes.

442
00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:31,560
Speaker 3: Max Reed I think is the most fringe right now.

443
00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:33,600
Speaker 3: I think he is very fringy in the sense that

444
00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:35,919
Speaker 3: he has another year like he did last year. He

445
00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:39,720
Speaker 3: is a yes, but currently not an ace bona fide

446
00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:42,840
Speaker 3: number one though, And I agree with the Wheeler and I.

447
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:45,320
Speaker 1: Say Max Reed's an ace. I would not say that.

448
00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:49,080
Speaker 5: You act like I think everybody's We agree. I know

449
00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:51,760
Speaker 5: he's not much. Okay, he's not.

450
00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:52,880
Speaker 1: He's not an ace.

451
00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:56,399
Speaker 7: From a from a scouting perspective, from what from what

452
00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:58,560
Speaker 7: analysts and people around the game say about him, he

453
00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:01,480
Speaker 7: is closer to a number two than number one. Now, again,

454
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:07,359
Speaker 7: beating in number two is awesome, Like you're so good at.

455
00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:09,320
Speaker 4: Baseball as a number two starter.

456
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:13,679
Speaker 7: There are plenty of number twos and number three's in

457
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:16,680
Speaker 7: the Hall of Fame, right Like, it's not a criticism.

458
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:18,280
Speaker 4: There's just like the scouts.

459
00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:20,160
Speaker 7: They have this sort of scale, and some of it

460
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:23,600
Speaker 7: is like, you know the power of your stuff, your velocity,

461
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:25,880
Speaker 7: you know how many bats you miss, all these sorts

462
00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:28,720
Speaker 7: of things, and so Freed is like a very very

463
00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:31,560
Speaker 7: high end number two, which like if you said that

464
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:34,080
Speaker 7: to him, it'd be like it would sound insulting, but

465
00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:35,720
Speaker 7: it's just like, you know, it's sort of like the

466
00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:38,159
Speaker 7: twenty to eighty scale, right Like that's just kind of

467
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:40,120
Speaker 7: how standard deviations work.

468
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:43,240
Speaker 4: I guess, Yeah, that's tremendous.

469
00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:45,159
Speaker 5: Again, Andy, you're locked in. I love it.

470
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:47,920
Speaker 3: Okay, So I'm going down my list now, I'm going

471
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:52,960
Speaker 3: down my list, I said, Sanchez, No Freed, no logan,

472
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:57,000
Speaker 3: web Logan web to me is an ace because he's

473
00:23:57,040 --> 00:23:59,399
Speaker 3: out there, he's done it for years, and that's part

474
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:01,000
Speaker 3: of the cave. That's when I get down the rest

475
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,359
Speaker 3: of my list, where do you see Logan Webb on

476
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:05,440
Speaker 3: the ace or not ace scale?

477
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:09,400
Speaker 7: Again, it sounds like it's insulting because he is awesome

478
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:11,879
Speaker 7: and he takes the baseball and no one is better

479
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:16,880
Speaker 7: at you know, picking up innings, Like you know, he's

480
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:20,760
Speaker 7: a number two according to what our panelists say, like

481
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:23,679
Speaker 7: they see him as closer to a number two. That

482
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:25,919
Speaker 7: still means he is awesome and you would love to

483
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:29,639
Speaker 7: have him in a postseason situation and you can build

484
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:30,920
Speaker 7: a pitching staff around him.

485
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:32,840
Speaker 4: But from you know, the sort.

486
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:36,800
Speaker 7: Of scouting perspective, he's closer to a two than a one.

487
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:40,640
Speaker 1: Is Jacob de Gram on the tier three? Just because

488
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:42,640
Speaker 1: he's always hurt and he hasn't.

489
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:45,520
Speaker 7: Done a lot, right, I mean with de Gram, like

490
00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:48,359
Speaker 7: de Gram in peak de Gram, you know what what

491
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:51,480
Speaker 7: was like twenty seventeen to twenty twenty one. Yeah, obviously,

492
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:54,680
Speaker 7: you know, definitely a number one, even with the sort

493
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:55,640
Speaker 7: of occasional.

494
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 4: Lack of availability. You know, he was like his results

495
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:01,200
Speaker 4: were really really good.

496
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:05,439
Speaker 7: In twenty twenty five. You know, he had like a

497
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:10,199
Speaker 7: sub three era. The peripherals were like less crazy. You know,

498
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,640
Speaker 7: he wasn't striking out like fourteen per nine the way

499
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:16,439
Speaker 7: he used to. But yeah, like I think from a

500
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:19,320
Speaker 7: from a stuff perspective, maybe not as dominant as he

501
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 7: once was, but like I think, just getting thirty starts

502
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:24,800
Speaker 7: out of him is such a such a win. So yeah,

503
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:28,080
Speaker 7: closer to you know again like a two, and then

504
00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:33,960
Speaker 7: the the the the health concerns push it closer maybe

505
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 7: two a three, which is why he's below you know,

506
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:39,439
Speaker 7: someone like a freed or a web given that he

507
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:41,320
Speaker 7: has like higher upside if that makes.

508
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:50,760
Speaker 1: Sense based on the parameters by definition, Andy McCullough, can

509
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 1: you have more than one? I mean, you guys only

510
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:57,399
Speaker 1: have two, Terrek, Can you have more than one ACE

511
00:25:57,440 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 1: on the same team?

512
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,879
Speaker 7: Oh yeah, for sure, And we only had two. We

513
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:05,440
Speaker 7: had two unanimous aces in our poll. We have a

514
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:09,920
Speaker 7: whole degrading system that we had said there were five

515
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:14,119
Speaker 7: and they included Crochet Yamamoto, who the public agree or

516
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:16,359
Speaker 7: excuse me, are are the people around the game agree

517
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:19,639
Speaker 7: with you, Alana about Yamamoto that he's number one? And

518
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 7: Christopher Sanchez was just you know, kind of just over

519
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 7: the line from our sort of system that we use.

520
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:27,159
Speaker 7: So those five were right there. And then with I

521
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,000
Speaker 7: believe Freed and Web were right on the other side

522
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,639
Speaker 7: of the line in terms of trying to decide it.

523
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 4: So yeah, you can.

524
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:35,879
Speaker 7: You can have multiple number ones. Like it's not a

525
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 7: it's like a binary question. It's like are you or

526
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:40,600
Speaker 7: aren't you. It's not where you fit in a rotation.

527
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:42,760
Speaker 7: It's just like do you have these sort of set

528
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 7: of skills. So like when you know Justin Verlander and

529
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 7: Max Scherzer played together with the Tigers, you know that

530
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:50,720
Speaker 7: sort of thing, like they were both number ones.

531
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:55,639
Speaker 3: Okay, continue down my list because my list is the

532
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:58,119
Speaker 3: most important list. But you are agreeing with me.

533
00:26:58,560 --> 00:26:58,919
Speaker 4: Agree.

534
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,920
Speaker 3: I have one that my opinion, when we always talked

535
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 3: about this in the minor leagues, big leagues, whatever, it was,

536
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:07,240
Speaker 3: if you had a certain amount of time as an

537
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:10,680
Speaker 3: ace and then you were down and you re upped

538
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:13,880
Speaker 3: your ace, ness, you're still an ace. I think Chris

539
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 3: Sale is an ace because of the fact that we

540
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 3: don't know he can't win a side. If you're out

541
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 3: there and you could win a cy Young this year,

542
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:24,879
Speaker 3: to me, I think Chris Sale is in that ace category.

543
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean, and I think if you're talking about

544
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:32,919
Speaker 7: my own personal ridiculous sort of you know standards, we

545
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 7: created another I say, we I created another category, which

546
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:42,159
Speaker 7: is an American badass, which is like when you're really

547
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:46,360
Speaker 7: not a number one, but you've earned a reputation of

548
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:48,439
Speaker 7: you know, being that because of all you've done and

549
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:50,600
Speaker 7: the fact that you're still very effective. And it's almost

550
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 7: like to say that Chris Sale is like a number three,

551
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 7: like feels kind of insulting, right, especially when you watch

552
00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:57,960
Speaker 7: Chris Sale and he's healthy and he's awesome, but you know,

553
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:00,640
Speaker 7: in terms of like being an actual number one, there's

554
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,680
Speaker 7: an availability issue, and so you know, he gets that

555
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 7: very vaunted you know, definition of an ABA in my system,

556
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 7: in the way that the people who actually make decisions

557
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 7: in baseball, they have them somewhere.

558
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:14,680
Speaker 4: In between a two and a three.

559
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:19,520
Speaker 3: You're the judge, jury, and executioner in the ACE categories.

560
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 3: So no matter what you say, that is gospel, my

561
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 3: last one, My last one. This guy only made twenty

562
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:28,520
Speaker 3: five starts last year, but for the first time in

563
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:32,480
Speaker 3: his career he missed starts, and he has a career

564
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 3: three five ERA, and he has eclipsed two hundred innings

565
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 3: and he's over his strikeouts per inning, and it's Logan

566
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 3: Gilbert to me, I think Logan Gilbert is.

567
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:47,160
Speaker 5: My last ace on the list. I want to hear

568
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 5: what other people had thought about it, and even even

569
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 5: your opinion.

570
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, thank you. You know it was interesting.

571
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 7: One of the things that was really fascinated to get

572
00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 7: the results back for this year was kind of where

573
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 7: the three younger members of the Mariners rotation would end up.

574
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 7: We kind of know how everyone feels about Luis Castillo,

575
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 7: like super valuable, super reliable, kind of mid tier guy.

576
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 7: George Kirby and Logan Gilbert were two guys heading into

577
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 7: this past season who were seeing as guys who had

578
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:17,920
Speaker 7: a chance to, you know, really solidify themselves as number ones.

579
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 4: Both got hurt in.

580
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:23,480
Speaker 7: Twenty twenty five, Kirby maybe a bit more seriously than Gilbert,

581
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:27,040
Speaker 7: so they missed time and that kind of dinged their ceiling. Meanwhile,

582
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 7: Brian Wu kind of vaulted past them, you know, on

583
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:31,880
Speaker 7: on this year's rankings.

584
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 4: I'm I'm really fascinated to see kind of how those

585
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 4: three guys shake out.

586
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 7: Because Gilbert has all the you know, all the tools,

587
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 7: all the ability, Like he's shown that he can be

588
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 7: really elite. He just hasn't put it together, you know,

589
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:45,960
Speaker 7: in a in a full season just yet, so he

590
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 7: would be again and that like number two.

591
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 4: Number three tier for me right now.

592
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:53,600
Speaker 7: And that's kind of where we had him on the list,

593
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 7: you know, it's kind of below the webs and the

594
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:57,920
Speaker 7: freeze and not yet in the.

595
00:29:58,040 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 4: You know, the number one discussion.

596
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 7: But I think if he has a big year, like

597
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 7: he has all of the uh like the physical sort

598
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 7: of tools and the you know, the building of miss

599
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:08,360
Speaker 7: bats and and that they could vault him in back

600
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:09,480
Speaker 7: into that discussion.

601
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 3: All right, I have one more, but I forgot the

602
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 3: comment about Logan Webb. To me, I thought Logan web

603
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 3: was a one. And then when he took his strikeouts

604
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 3: to where he took him last last season, I felt

605
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 3: like that vaulted him into the into the ace category.

606
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 3: But my last one for you, how close or what

607
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 3: kind of season does Hunter Brown need to have to

608
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 3: be considered an ace in your in your book?

609
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 4: Yeah? I think I was.

610
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 7: I was a little surprised at how few people we

611
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 7: got for him put the put the asterisks that we

612
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:47,520
Speaker 7: ask you know for you know, the applicant status. So

613
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 7: it's like we asked him, it's like, hey, put a

614
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:51,680
Speaker 7: scouting grade on this guy. If he's not yet a one,

615
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 7: but you think he could become a one, you know,

616
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 7: throw an asterisk, so like Noel McClain gets a bunch,

617
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 7: you know, Jacob Mazerowski, Yuri Perez, like all this was

618
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 7: guys and a hunter. Brown didn't get as many despite

619
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:03,720
Speaker 7: having like I think a two and a half. The

620
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 7: ra last year are really good peripheral numbers, and I think,

621
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 7: I guess the scouting belief is that he might be

622
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:12,719
Speaker 7: closer to capped as a number two, which again, like

623
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 7: it makes it sound bad. It's not like you can

624
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:18,480
Speaker 7: make hundreds of millions of dollars and win the World

625
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 7: Series and be awesome for many, many years. You know,

626
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 7: if your strikeout rate is like slightly too low from

627
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 7: the scouting perspective, you know, you don't fit the.

628
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:26,760
Speaker 4: Characteristics or whatever.

629
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 7: I don't know, but yeah, for me, like if he

630
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 7: were to do what he did last year again, I

631
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 7: might feel silly for not having granted him an application.

632
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 7: You know, he probably should be an applicant the more

633
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 7: I think about it, But you know, we're just gonna

634
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:42,760
Speaker 7: have to let the year shake out and see how

635
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 7: embarrassed I should be about these opinions