1 00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:05,280 Speaker 1: You're listening to Math and Magic, a production I Heart Radio. 2 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:13,160 Speaker 1: We started a charter school. It was the first all boys, 3 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: African American charter school. John King was our property. And 4 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:19,880 Speaker 1: John talks to me, goes, okay, listen. At the next 5 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 1: board meeting, we're gonna have some problems because of our 6 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:29,000 Speaker 1: twenty three teachers. I'm not renewing the contracts on eleven 7 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 1: of them. I said, what these parents have got placards. No, no, 8 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:36,839 Speaker 1: we won't take it. No no, we won't take it. 9 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:38,559 Speaker 1: Their chant and all this stuff. And so here I 10 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 1: am white guy living in Connecticut from Memphis, chairman the board, 11 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:45,880 Speaker 1: and I said to him, okay, listen, here's the bottom line. 12 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:48,360 Speaker 1: Went through it with the parents, went through it with 13 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:52,639 Speaker 1: the teachers, pride commiserated, and we said we're gonna move on. 14 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 1: Three years later, out of five three elementary schools in 15 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:09,560 Speaker 1: New York, including all the suburbs, were number one. I 16 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 1: am Bob Pittman. Welcome to this episode of Math and Magic, 17 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 1: Stories from the Frontiers and Marketing. Today, we're going to 18 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 1: dig into the creation of one of the world's most 19 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:21,839 Speaker 1: innovative poverty fighting organizations, the Robin Hood Foundation. It fights 20 00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 1: poverty in New York City and to take us through 21 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:27,559 Speaker 1: it all and his life too. Is our guest. Paul 22 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:45,280 Speaker 1: Tutor Jones. Paul is a very successful hedge fund manager 23 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 1: through his company Tutor Investments. He is a Southerner from Memphis, 24 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 1: went to college in Virginia, lived in New Orleans before 25 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 1: coming to New York in nine a real low time 26 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:57,080 Speaker 1: for New York for those who remember it, but a 27 00:01:57,160 --> 00:01:59,000 Speaker 1: time when a lot of young people from all over 28 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 1: the world will converting on the city to make their 29 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:04,520 Speaker 1: mark and everything from art and dance to media and finance. 30 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 1: He was part of that, and he definitely made his 31 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 1: mark in both finance and philanthropy. Paul is an avid outdoorsman, 32 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:15,320 Speaker 1: a conservationist, and a wildly curious guy. His mother said 33 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 1: he was going to be a preacher, and listening to 34 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 1: him on his most passionate subjects, you can see why. Paul. Welcome, 35 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:24,079 Speaker 1: It's good to see you, Bob. Before we get started, 36 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 1: we're going to dig into you in sixty seconds. You ready. 37 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:32,520 Speaker 1: Do you prefer Memphis or New York City? Oh? We well, 38 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 1: it's my roots, So I gotta say Memphis Vanilla or 39 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 1: Chocolate Vanilla Solitaire or poker definitely, community spirits better poker 40 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 1: boxing or basketball, love boxing, hunting or fishing, killer love, 41 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 1: hunting day or night, love Day, debt or equity love 42 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 1: equity hits about to get harder. Secret talent. I think 43 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:01,520 Speaker 1: I'm a good problem solver. Favorite have to be September, 44 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 1: Earth wind Fire, Body, most prized possession, The Old Man, 45 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 1: the Boy signed by Nash Buckingham. Smartest person you know, 46 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:15,280 Speaker 1: Bill Gates, childhood hero, James Brown, historical idol, Eddy Roosevelt. 47 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:18,040 Speaker 1: If you could have one superpower, what would it be? 48 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:22,800 Speaker 1: Heal things through love? Worst bad or fashion Trent? You 49 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:27,639 Speaker 1: participated in Oh God, Paisley and Puka Dots in the seventies. 50 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:31,079 Speaker 1: Who would play you in a movie? Of course? Brad 51 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 1: Pitt proudest achievement being part of robin Hood. Final question, 52 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:39,920 Speaker 1: best life concert, Earth Winding Fire in the early days 53 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:43,839 Speaker 1: with the Three Pyramids. Okay, here we go. Let's get 54 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 1: started with a big question in you started the robin 55 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 1: Hood Foundation along with three friends, including Glen Dubin and 56 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:53,840 Speaker 1: Peter Borsch. And when you came to New York, if 57 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 1: the reports are correct, you only had seventeen hundred dollars 58 00:03:56,480 --> 00:04:00,160 Speaker 1: in capital. Yet only ten years later your radist ave 59 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 1: those Indeed in our city, where did this big, bold 60 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 1: idea come from? There's a great saying, don't get above 61 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 1: your raisin. You should know that being from Mississippi, and 62 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:16,600 Speaker 1: what that really says is, don't forget where you came from. 63 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:20,600 Speaker 1: I like you came to New York. I didn't know anybody. 64 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:22,560 Speaker 1: I was just a kid who wanted to make in 65 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 1: the big city. I was in the right place at 66 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 1: the right time, and a lot of things broke my 67 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 1: way very very early on. I felt a sense of 68 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:38,280 Speaker 1: social obligation to try to give others the same kind 69 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 1: of breaks that helped me on my journey. And why 70 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 1: did you think you could do it? It's funny. The 71 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 1: eighties were a crazy time. It was all about glitz 72 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 1: and money and I don't want to use the word greed, 73 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:53,000 Speaker 1: but it was more materialistic. The first thing I tried 74 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:54,839 Speaker 1: to do is rather than reinvent the wheel, was just 75 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:57,920 Speaker 1: trying to find where can I go and just get 76 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 1: straight into poverty fighting And it was really hard to 77 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:06,120 Speaker 1: find any one organization dedicated that. And I knew that 78 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:09,720 Speaker 1: if I did it myself, and particularly if I recruited 79 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 1: a bunch of my friends that could bring business principles 80 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 1: to it that would have a very significant impact. So 81 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 1: give everyone listening your description of the Robin Hood Foundation 82 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:22,279 Speaker 1: and really a then and now this original thought and 83 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 1: how it's evolved. So this is a nine. We were 84 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 1: a bunch of inexperienced, somewhat naive do gooders who were 85 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 1: probably better at effort than it results. It was really 86 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:39,839 Speaker 1: all about just being on the streets, having a presence 87 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 1: and trying to do good. We were really really focused 88 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 1: on bringing our hearts and our energy into helping people, 89 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:55,800 Speaker 1: and we thought that just love on its own would 90 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 1: be enough. Love and obviously capital. As we went through 91 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 1: time time we found that there's a lot of difference 92 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 1: between effort and outcome. In the early nineties, as we 93 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:13,679 Speaker 1: began to expand our board, we got really smart people 94 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 1: aren't like yourself, like John Sicks, like standard Documentary, John F. 95 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 1: Kennedy Jr. John Winner, or a variety of people. We 96 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 1: begin to start to hold ourselves accountable not just for 97 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:29,160 Speaker 1: the effort that we were making, but more importantly for 98 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:32,479 Speaker 1: the results that we were getting. And so we really 99 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 1: brought an outcome based model to philanthropy and that was 100 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 1: at that time. It was almost a radical idea that 101 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 1: we were going to apply business principles, measurement metrics, accountability, 102 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 1: goal setting, Did you achieve your goals? Why didn't you 103 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 1: achieve your goals? Can we add various forms of assistance? 104 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 1: If an organization didn't have management strengths, would bring in 105 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 1: a variety of consulting firms to help them shore up 106 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:04,040 Speaker 1: their manager. If they didn't know real estate because they 107 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:06,719 Speaker 1: were trying to acquire a building or rent a building 108 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 1: or whatever, they didn't understand the tax laws or any 109 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 1: number of different things, and so we started bringing pro 110 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 1: bono a lot of the best that Wall Street had 111 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 1: to offer in the financial and real estate business had 112 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:24,239 Speaker 1: to offer to these organizations in an attempt to get 113 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:27,560 Speaker 1: them to be that much more effective in trying to 114 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 1: serve those in need around them. You talked about the metrics, 115 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:35,120 Speaker 1: we're really going to evaluate you. We're gonna bring assistance 116 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 1: to you, management help, in essence, consulting services. But when 117 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 1: you monitored it, robin Hood defunds about ten percent of 118 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:45,520 Speaker 1: the organizations every year, meaning you stop funding them, and 119 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:47,200 Speaker 1: that had to be hard because you sort of fall 120 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 1: in love with these organizations was that difficult in the beginning, 121 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:54,440 Speaker 1: and where did that one come from? Think about the 122 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:58,680 Speaker 1: greatest progress that civilization has ever experienced, it's generally been 123 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 1: in market dictated economic systems, right the invisible hands centrally 124 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 1: planned ideas. We've got centuries approving that that's not the 125 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 1: most optimal model. So the market brings a great discipline, 126 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 1: and our particular case, what I call the market is 127 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 1: simply there's a huge growing need for help and services 128 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:28,640 Speaker 1: in poor communities. The way we approached things were we're 129 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:32,280 Speaker 1: gonna have the biggest impact for the most number of 130 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:35,720 Speaker 1: people in need, and that's going to drive everything. Everything 131 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:40,600 Speaker 1: else is going to be secondary, including in some unfortunate 132 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 1: instances where what may have been a great idea in 133 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 1: one year five years later was passed its due date. 134 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:50,480 Speaker 1: It's amazing how the face of poverty changes. And so 135 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:54,320 Speaker 1: we were very disciplined and we still are today about 136 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:58,400 Speaker 1: making sure that our dollar is going to travel as 137 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:01,679 Speaker 1: far as it possibly can in to serve the greatest 138 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 1: social good that there is by targeting the greatest area 139 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:09,920 Speaker 1: of needs where just a little marginal help can have 140 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:14,280 Speaker 1: a geometric impact on it. You also had another innovation, 141 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 1: which was the board covers the administrative costs of the organization. 142 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 1: So if you're a donor, the money you give us 143 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:22,960 Speaker 1: going to the program. Where did that idea come from? 144 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:27,680 Speaker 1: Intellectual capitals worth so much more than financial capital. The 145 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:30,720 Speaker 1: power of a good idea is gonna be worth all 146 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:33,200 Speaker 1: the money in the bank in the whole world. Just 147 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 1: think about the great tech companies that have sprung up 148 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:40,440 Speaker 1: in the past twenty years. The same thing implies in philanthropy. 149 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:43,679 Speaker 1: So we wanted to have a staff, and we wanted 150 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:47,079 Speaker 1: to have a board that was the best in class 151 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:51,559 Speaker 1: when it came to understanding and finding solutions, and so 152 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:54,440 Speaker 1: we didn't want to be constrained in that sense. We're 153 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:58,680 Speaker 1: gonna say we're gonna hold everyone else harmless if we 154 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 1: decide to overspend end on trying to figure out problems, 155 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 1: and instead we're gonna have one of our donors capital 156 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:13,560 Speaker 1: goes straight into solutions by various other service providers on 157 00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:17,360 Speaker 1: the streets, folks doing the actual work. And we were 158 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 1: gonna be a curator, so to speak, for any donor 159 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 1: that wanted to give capital that they want to know 160 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:25,680 Speaker 1: they're gonna have a big impact. We'd curated and we'd 161 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 1: pay that cost to curation ourselves, and it's been a 162 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 1: great model and many organizations have copied it. Are there 163 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:34,600 Speaker 1: two or three things that you've discovered over this period 164 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:38,560 Speaker 1: that correlate perfectly with poverty. If we can fix this, 165 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:42,600 Speaker 1: we're gonna solve poverty. The number one thing, clearly is education. 166 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 1: High school education gets you a per capita income I 167 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:50,360 Speaker 1: want to say, in the neighborhood of just over thirty 168 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:54,560 Speaker 1: thousand dollars on average per year, whereas a college educational 169 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 1: gets you I think in the low fifties. So clearly, 170 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:01,640 Speaker 1: as you increase your educational level, the statistics were to 171 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:04,760 Speaker 1: argue that your chances of being poverty strict and dropped 172 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:08,200 Speaker 1: and diminished greatly. So if you don't get high school education, 173 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 1: you're going to poverty. There's a great chance you're gonna 174 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:15,440 Speaker 1: be in poverty. Probably of the thrust that we've done 175 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 1: over the past two decades is trying to provide quality 176 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:25,599 Speaker 1: education two kids from low income neighborhoods and trying to 177 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:28,560 Speaker 1: give them the right tool kit to be able to 178 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 1: go out and earn a leving poverty is so much 179 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:34,640 Speaker 1: a function of the educational opportunity, and unfortunately, so much 180 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:37,200 Speaker 1: of that's a function of the area code. I've been 181 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:39,400 Speaker 1: on the board for a few decades, even served the 182 00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:41,720 Speaker 1: term as Chairman of the board, and so I've been 183 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 1: up close with robin Hood. What is fascinated me is 184 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:48,600 Speaker 1: that Robin Hood has avoided letting politics cepen. We have 185 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:50,800 Speaker 1: people on the left, we have people on the right, 186 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:53,520 Speaker 1: but they all seem to come together on this common 187 00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:56,960 Speaker 1: mission to try and eradicate poverty in New York City. 188 00:11:57,040 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 1: How did you manage to achieve that? What less things 189 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:03,439 Speaker 1: are there there of getting a big tent as opposed 190 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:07,439 Speaker 1: to a small tent. Well, it's funny. We had baptism 191 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:11,040 Speaker 1: by fire in the very very early phases of robin Hood. 192 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 1: I can't remember where you on the board when John F. 193 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:16,120 Speaker 1: Henny Jr. And Joan Winner were on there and we 194 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 1: were going through the needle exchange. So that was one 195 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:22,560 Speaker 1: of the most fascinating everybody the story what was going 196 00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:24,880 Speaker 1: on at that point in time. The way you define 197 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 1: poverty in New York was somebody who was a drug 198 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 1: user with AIDS. That person, for sure was going to 199 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:38,200 Speaker 1: be living on the streets in poverty, spreading AIDS and 200 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:43,200 Speaker 1: inflicting a huge social cost on other New Yorkers, of 201 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 1: all elks. It was a really frightening time. That's when 202 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:49,840 Speaker 1: everyone was terrified of AIDS. Our staff came to us 203 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:52,839 Speaker 1: and said, look, there's a really easy solution to really 204 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:55,079 Speaker 1: make an a dent in the AIDS epidemic, and that 205 00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 1: is why don't we provide free clean needles to user? 206 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:03,839 Speaker 1: That just set off an absolute war on our board. 207 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:06,719 Speaker 1: And what was so interesting was on the left we 208 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:09,840 Speaker 1: had John F. Kenney Jr. And John Winner, who going, 209 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:13,520 Speaker 1: you can't give free needles as an organization, will just 210 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:16,840 Speaker 1: be attacked, will be toasted. And then on the right 211 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:20,679 Speaker 1: you had stand drug miller and Kindling Gone, one of 212 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 1: famous money manager, one of very famous industries started home 213 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 1: Depot very concerned, who went, who cares? We're here to 214 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:32,560 Speaker 1: save people's lives. These are people in need, medical need 215 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 1: as well as poverty stricken, and this is the way 216 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 1: to do it. And ultimately, after a very vigorous debate, 217 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:41,600 Speaker 1: we voted and agreed we're gonna do that. And now, 218 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:44,240 Speaker 1: at the time that was a really radical idea. There's 219 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 1: a lot of blowback on all of us. What was 220 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:52,720 Speaker 1: so interesting, within five years that idea not only became 221 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:56,160 Speaker 1: widely adopted, but the city took over funding from US 222 00:13:56,520 --> 00:13:59,319 Speaker 1: and the state. Now it just goes without saying, you're 223 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:03,720 Speaker 1: gonna pro vibe users clean needles because you don't want 224 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:07,440 Speaker 1: to have dirty needles spreading AIDS. And I would say 225 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 1: that literally turned the tide on the AIDS epidemic in 226 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:15,560 Speaker 1: New York. The one thing that we've always done on 227 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:20,600 Speaker 1: that board, irrespective of the board composition, irrespective of what 228 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:24,680 Speaker 1: mayor we've had, from de Blasio to Rudy Giuliani, right, 229 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:28,280 Speaker 1: we've had the biggest spectrum you can imagine. We've been 230 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 1: a political and we've said we have one and only 231 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 1: one job, and that's we're gonna serve the neediest people 232 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:39,280 Speaker 1: in New York City. That's our only mission and everything 233 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:43,560 Speaker 1: else is secondary to that. And we've stayed true to that, 234 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 1: and that's why I think the organization continues to thrive 235 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:49,560 Speaker 1: thirty plus years later. Just to put robin Hood in 236 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:51,920 Speaker 1: perspective for people who don't know it, robin Hood has 237 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:54,600 Speaker 1: given away about three billion dollars so far, raise a 238 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 1: couple of hundred million a year, and by the LEAs 239 00:14:56,840 --> 00:14:59,440 Speaker 1: spends the money in the year, doesn't build up this 240 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 1: huge and almet, but really tries to put it to 241 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 1: work as soon as we can. So we're gonna come 242 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 1: back to robin hood, but I want to get some 243 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:08,680 Speaker 1: context on you first, So let's go back in time. 244 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 1: You and I are almost the same age. We both 245 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:13,040 Speaker 1: grew up in the Deep South in the late fifties 246 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 1: and sixties, early seventies. Can you paint us a picture 247 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:20,320 Speaker 1: of life in those times, living in Memphis, Tennessee. My 248 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 1: mother and father were pretty liberal, particularly for Memphis. One 249 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:28,960 Speaker 1: of the craziest times I remember was when Martin Luther 250 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 1: King was shot in Memphis. But I remember at that 251 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:36,760 Speaker 1: time my dad being really scared, and he took a 252 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 1: shotgun and loaded it and put it at our front 253 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 1: door because we thought Memphis was gonna burn. That was 254 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 1: the time when they first had bussing to try to 255 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:51,960 Speaker 1: stop segregation. It was a highly divisive time. It's the 256 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 1: only other time I can remember where I thought the 257 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:59,160 Speaker 1: country was as divided as it is today. But through 258 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:03,000 Speaker 1: all that, I remember my mother used to always take 259 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:07,280 Speaker 1: me to revivals, and so it would be my mother 260 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 1: and I and a tent full of black folks and 261 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:14,400 Speaker 1: the minister get happy, and then of course it would 262 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 1: be time for the laying on the hands, and we'd 263 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:20,000 Speaker 1: go up step over about eight bodies in the way, 264 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 1: and when that guy would put his hands on your head, 265 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 1: the Holy Spirit was coursing through your body at that 266 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 1: point in time. It was always a really happy time. 267 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 1: My mother would get so happy, I would get happy. 268 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:38,680 Speaker 1: It was fantastic. I probably was important for what I 269 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 1: do now because she just thought about where am I 270 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 1: gonna go to be part of a community where loving 271 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 1: faith is at his basis, and I'm gonna look without 272 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:57,560 Speaker 1: anything other than a huge happy heart at the rest 273 00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 1: of the world and engage from that standpoint. I think 274 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:02,480 Speaker 1: that's always had a big impact on me and what 275 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:05,400 Speaker 1: I do. You were quoted as saying, your mother told 276 00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:07,880 Speaker 1: you you'd be a preacher. What did you really want 277 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:10,200 Speaker 1: to be As a kid. When I was five years old, 278 00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:12,040 Speaker 1: I knew I was gonna be a millionaire. I kept 279 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:14,040 Speaker 1: telling my mom, I'm gonna be a millionaire. I don't 280 00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 1: know if I've got time for preaching. I'm gonna do that. 281 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:19,919 Speaker 1: And I also wanted to be president United States, but 282 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:23,000 Speaker 1: I got sidetracked in the money business. So your dad 283 00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:26,919 Speaker 1: was a lawyer, published the business publication from Memphis. Anyone 284 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 1: in your family a traditor. My uncle was the biggest 285 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:34,359 Speaker 1: cotton speculator in the world. My whole family were a 286 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:38,480 Speaker 1: long line of bridge players. So when I was a kid, 287 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:43,359 Speaker 1: I played every single game at in tonight him. I 288 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:49,040 Speaker 1: played Monopoly, I played Poker, I played Chess, part cheesy life. 289 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:52,159 Speaker 1: When there was no one around, I'd play Solitaire. By 290 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:54,600 Speaker 1: the time I got to college, already had a PhD 291 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 1: in probability theory, just from all the games I played 292 00:17:58,320 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 1: as a kid. And it's not the heart of being 293 00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:02,719 Speaker 1: a trader. I think so, I think so. And do 294 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:05,359 Speaker 1: you think we've lost that now because of all this 295 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:09,120 Speaker 1: electronic devices. The kids not play these games. Do they 296 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:13,000 Speaker 1: not learn the probability in the gut like you did? Well, 297 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:15,520 Speaker 1: I think some do, and then I think some don't. 298 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:18,400 Speaker 1: The iPhone, I think we're gonna look back and say 299 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:22,159 Speaker 1: that was a great step backwards for humanity. And I 300 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 1: say that because I'm really worried about how that phone 301 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:31,360 Speaker 1: is disconnecting the human race from the planet. I think 302 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:34,600 Speaker 1: some of the ills that we have today with regard 303 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:37,000 Speaker 1: to the environment or a function of the fact that 304 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:40,320 Speaker 1: we all get lost in that phone, and we've lost 305 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 1: some of the connection that we have with nature. If 306 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:45,600 Speaker 1: I just look at our youth today, you look at 307 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:50,720 Speaker 1: the suicide rates, the episodes of loneliness, detachment, this fomo fear. 308 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:53,439 Speaker 1: I don't know if that was the case when you 309 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:57,359 Speaker 1: and I grow up. I spent my entire afternoons outside 310 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:01,160 Speaker 1: all the way until dusk, and we learned social skills, 311 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:04,680 Speaker 1: and we learned interaction, and there was no such thing 312 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:07,240 Speaker 1: as loneliness. Kids today have a much tougher time. And 313 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:09,920 Speaker 1: I think the phone is actually not our friend. I 314 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:13,399 Speaker 1: think it's our foe. You were an avid outdoors person, 315 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:15,280 Speaker 1: hunting and fishing. You were that as a kid too. 316 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:19,040 Speaker 1: Write My dad took my brother and I fishing from 317 00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:21,199 Speaker 1: when I was eight or nine years old, and I 318 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:26,480 Speaker 1: just loved the outdoors so much. It was my favorite 319 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:28,720 Speaker 1: thing to do. I was living for the weekend, but 320 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:31,719 Speaker 1: the weekend was in the woods. You were a boxer two, 321 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 1: aren't you. I did do that lessons from boxing Maha 322 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:38,840 Speaker 1: and Ali was my hero, and so I tried to 323 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:42,480 Speaker 1: I tried to mendic him. I was a poor substitute. 324 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:45,920 Speaker 1: I learned to run like an absolute rabbit. But I 325 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:48,479 Speaker 1: had a pretty good record. I think I was twenty 326 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:51,920 Speaker 1: two and three or four something like that. I really 327 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:55,680 Speaker 1: really enjoyed boxing. It was a great way to find 328 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:58,720 Speaker 1: out what kind of will you had. Just hold on 329 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:01,520 Speaker 1: a second, because we've got so much more to talk about. 330 00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:07,720 Speaker 1: We'll be back after a quick break. Welcome back to 331 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:12,239 Speaker 1: math and magic. We're here with Paul Tutor Jones. You 332 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:15,080 Speaker 1: were a commodity trader in New Orleans. You came to 333 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:17,000 Speaker 1: New York on the trading floor of the New York 334 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:19,399 Speaker 1: Cotton Exchange with the hell knew there was such a 335 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:21,520 Speaker 1: thing in New York. You were a whiz kid at 336 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:23,520 Speaker 1: Eff Hutton. I think you were vice president by a 337 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:28,919 Speaker 1: and then you started Tutor Investment Corps. What was the concept? Why? 338 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:31,000 Speaker 1: Why did you make that jump? So when I first 339 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:34,520 Speaker 1: came into New York, very quickly became a floor trader. 340 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:36,880 Speaker 1: I was in the cotton pit, and then pretty soon 341 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:39,479 Speaker 1: I started trading orange juice and then gold and sugar. 342 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:43,200 Speaker 1: Than there are fifty people around me. Half of them 343 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:46,119 Speaker 1: were ex football players, because you had to be really 344 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:50,120 Speaker 1: strong in that pit and physical. My father kept going, 345 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:55,520 Speaker 1: why don't you quit this business and do something legitimate 346 00:20:55,640 --> 00:21:00,560 Speaker 1: like real estate and quit this legalized game umbling in 347 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:06,040 Speaker 1: the futures markets and do something with yourself. He talked 348 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 1: me into applying and going to Harvard Business School. So 349 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:13,520 Speaker 1: I actually applied, I was accepted. It was labor Day. 350 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 1: I was just getting ready to turn twenty six, and 351 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:19,000 Speaker 1: I was sitting there thinking to myself, this is insane 352 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:24,720 Speaker 1: because I'm making unreal amounts of money every day every month. 353 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:28,240 Speaker 1: What are they gonna teach me about my craft? Zero ZiLs? 354 00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:31,680 Speaker 1: So I didn't go to Harvard. I stayed and that's 355 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:34,840 Speaker 1: when I decided to start a business to manage money 356 00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:38,240 Speaker 1: on behalf of other people. Because I missed all that camaraderie. 357 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:41,080 Speaker 1: I missed being part of a team. I wanted to 358 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:44,840 Speaker 1: feel something more significant than just being a loan or 359 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:47,080 Speaker 1: making a lot of money with a big bank account. 360 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:49,920 Speaker 1: When you started, what was the concept for it. I 361 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:53,600 Speaker 1: was just gonna take guys like you, anybody around that 362 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:56,960 Speaker 1: would give me some money that would invest in my fund, 363 00:21:57,000 --> 00:21:58,479 Speaker 1: and I was going to manage the money for him 364 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 1: and I take the profits. When I first started, I 365 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:05,439 Speaker 1: had to beg, borrow and steal to raise three hundred 366 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:08,720 Speaker 1: thousand dollars. It was the hardest money raised in my 367 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:12,440 Speaker 1: entire life, and then once we got going, it became 368 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:15,439 Speaker 1: pretty easy after that. How quickly did it grow? That 369 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:18,080 Speaker 1: was back when the markets really used to move a lot, 370 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:20,320 Speaker 1: So I was having kind of a hundred percent years 371 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:23,720 Speaker 1: all the time. I was probably young and dumb, taking 372 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:25,800 Speaker 1: a lot more risk than I take now, But the 373 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:29,600 Speaker 1: markets were so phenomenal back then. It was the greatest 374 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:32,240 Speaker 1: time to be a trader of all time. So we've 375 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:35,600 Speaker 1: had people on Mathew Magic talking about the brands of 376 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:39,720 Speaker 1: TV networks, talent agencies, music companies, investment firms, and more. 377 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 1: You're the first hedge fund we've had on What do 378 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 1: you think that brand stands for? And how have you 379 00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:49,959 Speaker 1: consciously thought about it. I think it's evolved over the decades. 380 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:55,520 Speaker 1: In the eighties they were extraordinary vehicles for really high returns. 381 00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:58,560 Speaker 1: They've almost done a one eighty in terms of the 382 00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:03,000 Speaker 1: risk profile that most hedge funds say. They've become much 383 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:07,320 Speaker 1: more like the establishment, where they're just trying to beat 384 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 1: normal stockard terms or any past investment by anywhere from 385 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:16,119 Speaker 1: say eight to twelve percent in a given year. I 386 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:19,359 Speaker 1: think most hedge funds have lowered expectations. Now. Part of 387 00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:23,600 Speaker 1: that might be because the audience that invested in hedge 388 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:26,240 Speaker 1: funds has changed so much over the past three decades. 389 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:29,760 Speaker 1: It used to be a lot of individuals, a lot 390 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:33,560 Speaker 1: of lawyers, dennis and doctors who that was a marginal 391 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:37,280 Speaker 1: investment in their portfolio, and today it shifted to a 392 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 1: lot of pension funds and downwards a lot of institutional 393 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:43,800 Speaker 1: money who have completely different risk profile. You called the 394 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:46,600 Speaker 1: eight seven crash and profited from it. I think you 395 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:49,720 Speaker 1: called the O A oh nine recession. Is that just 396 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:52,280 Speaker 1: part of what you do or was that a big 397 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 1: event for you? They were big events. They happened only occasionally. 398 00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 1: You see, you have to realize we're all products of environment. 399 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:03,760 Speaker 1: Right in the seventies, I was a commodity trader. In 400 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:06,800 Speaker 1: seventy four seventy five, we had a searing recession. When 401 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:10,200 Speaker 1: I came to New York, the trash was stacked one 402 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:12,919 Speaker 1: story high. The idea that I was gonna be in 403 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 1: the stock market when we were in this incredible recession 404 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:20,040 Speaker 1: in New York City was virtually bankrupt. Forget it. I 405 00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:23,640 Speaker 1: didn't want to be subject to that vicissitude. So I thought, Okay, 406 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 1: I'm gonna get in commodities because everyone's always gonna need 407 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:29,760 Speaker 1: to eat, They're gonna need cotton to wear clothes, they're 408 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:33,080 Speaker 1: gonna need beef, et cetera. And it just so happened. 409 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:38,600 Speaker 1: I got in commodities in the Roaring Inflation of the seventies, 410 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:43,360 Speaker 1: when inflation went into double digits and markets were literally 411 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:47,280 Speaker 1: going up by a multiple of three and then down 412 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,199 Speaker 1: doing around trippers year by year by years. Here I 413 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:55,040 Speaker 1: am in the pit watching. I remember bunker Hunt went 414 00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:58,160 Speaker 1: from the richest man on Earth by multiple of ten 415 00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:02,879 Speaker 1: worth over ten being hours to bankruptcy in eighteen months, 416 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:05,760 Speaker 1: and so that had a big impact on me. I 417 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:09,080 Speaker 1: wasn't gonna be Warren Buffett and buy and hold. Buy 418 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:12,719 Speaker 1: and hold where I stood was a great way for 419 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:16,720 Speaker 1: financial tragedy and death. It's not a young man's mind, 420 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:20,960 Speaker 1: or is that a logical perspective. I actually think I'm 421 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:24,320 Speaker 1: the single most conservative investor on plan Earth. I would 422 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,920 Speaker 1: never do what Warren Buffett does. The idea that I'm 423 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:32,760 Speaker 1: gonna buy and hold and be subject to these economic 424 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:36,000 Speaker 1: forces that I can't control. It doesn't fit with my 425 00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:39,040 Speaker 1: risk profile. It fits with Warren's God bless us all. 426 00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:41,720 Speaker 1: He's got a gazinine times more money than I do. 427 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:45,320 Speaker 1: But in two thousand and eight he was down and 428 00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:47,919 Speaker 1: I was kind of unchanged up a little bit, and 429 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:50,680 Speaker 1: I slept a lot better in two thousand and eight 430 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 1: than he did, though he's going to unequivocally have outperformed 431 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:57,120 Speaker 1: me over the length of our career. So I just 432 00:25:57,280 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 1: don't ever want to lose money. I just don't. If 433 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:02,280 Speaker 1: I've got something that's losing money, I sell it. How 434 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:07,840 Speaker 1: has the brand of you and Tutor Investments changed over time? 435 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:11,480 Speaker 1: The general brand is the same, which is that I'm 436 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:15,480 Speaker 1: the most risk averse person that's ever gonna manage money. 437 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:18,479 Speaker 1: The other thing that's changes that my appetite is probably 438 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:22,520 Speaker 1: down significantly from where it was thirty years ago. I 439 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:26,159 Speaker 1: don't know whether that's testosterone. I don't know whether because 440 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:29,119 Speaker 1: I've got more money, I'm not as aggressive. I've been 441 00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:32,919 Speaker 1: trading for forty four years. It's very difficult to get 442 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:38,920 Speaker 1: to my age and continue trading without finding that work 443 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:42,199 Speaker 1: life balance. I don't want to have to wake up 444 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:44,280 Speaker 1: in the middle of the night. Well, I wake up 445 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:46,000 Speaker 1: every night at three o'clock anyway, but I don't wanna 446 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:47,679 Speaker 1: have to wake up sweating in the middle of the night, 447 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,480 Speaker 1: and I remember times in my younger days, boy, I'd 448 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:53,000 Speaker 1: wake up pit it out because I knew I was 449 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:58,359 Speaker 1: on the biggest bronco that had ever been ritten. I 450 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:01,879 Speaker 1: wasn't sleeping. I kind of enjoyed the adrenaline from it 451 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:03,720 Speaker 1: a bit. But then after a while I just became 452 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,640 Speaker 1: physically too deletarious, and so I had that I think 453 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:09,480 Speaker 1: over time, I just backed off. Let's go back to 454 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:12,240 Speaker 1: your life of giving. What had you done before Robin Hood? 455 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,879 Speaker 1: Right before Robin Hood, I was watching sixty Minutes in 456 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:20,720 Speaker 1: eighties six and I saw this guy, Jeane Lang, who 457 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:24,879 Speaker 1: went back to his old high school in Harlem. He 458 00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:27,479 Speaker 1: found out that the college entrance rate from that school 459 00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:30,400 Speaker 1: was like eight percent, and he said, this is horrible. 460 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:32,960 Speaker 1: So he gave the commencement address to the sixth grade 461 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:37,399 Speaker 1: and said, if any of you graduate from high school, 462 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:40,359 Speaker 1: I'll pay your college tuition. And I thought that was 463 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:43,880 Speaker 1: such an uplifting story, and at the time I thought 464 00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:47,800 Speaker 1: I can do this. I can unequibbically do this. So 465 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,199 Speaker 1: I called him up. I said, Okay, I want to 466 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:53,000 Speaker 1: do this. Apparently four or five other people have seen 467 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:56,160 Speaker 1: the show too. We all met at his apartment he said, look, 468 00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:59,280 Speaker 1: I'm gonna start a foundation. Long story short, I adopted 469 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:01,600 Speaker 1: a school in bed sty bed Stye do or I 470 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:04,879 Speaker 1: still love it, spoke of the sixth grade commencement, and 471 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:07,800 Speaker 1: then I had eighty six boys and girls that I thought, 472 00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:10,920 Speaker 1: this is gonna be great. I'm gonna absolutely love these 473 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,320 Speaker 1: folks to death, and we're all going to college. All 474 00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:17,480 Speaker 1: of us are going to college. That probably did more 475 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:20,760 Speaker 1: to inform me of what to do at robin Hood, 476 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:24,080 Speaker 1: because four years in, I'll never forget. I had a 477 00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 1: house down on the Chesapeag Bay, Virginia. I built this 478 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:31,359 Speaker 1: huge log cabin out back, and I had all the 479 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:33,919 Speaker 1: kids down there. We had a kind of a girl's 480 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 1: dorm and a boy's dorm. One summer, one of the 481 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:41,400 Speaker 1: girls miscarried. I didn't know how to deal with teenage pregnancy. 482 00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:43,000 Speaker 1: I didn't know how to deal with all the social 483 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:46,760 Speaker 1: issues that these kids were having. I had no experience, 484 00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:49,880 Speaker 1: no background. All I had was a checkbook and a 485 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:53,800 Speaker 1: big heart. And what I found out really quickly was 486 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,640 Speaker 1: that that wasn't enough if you didn't have the skill 487 00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:01,200 Speaker 1: sets to deal with the variety of social issues that 488 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:05,560 Speaker 1: these kids had. Forget even trying to learn academics. First, 489 00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,200 Speaker 1: do they even have a stable enough home life to 490 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:10,640 Speaker 1: be able to go to school and not be fearful, 491 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:14,840 Speaker 1: Fearful for their own safety, Fearful when they went home 492 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:17,320 Speaker 1: that they were going to have a safe and a 493 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:21,760 Speaker 1: warm and a loving home, Fearful that they weren't going 494 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:24,520 Speaker 1: to be in a crime area that was going to 495 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:27,800 Speaker 1: allow them to do their work. There so many social issues. 496 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:31,000 Speaker 1: That was when I learned, Okay, if you're gonna get 497 00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:34,600 Speaker 1: into this poverty fighting business, you better be equipped. And 498 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:39,400 Speaker 1: that was when I started trying to find the smartest 499 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:41,480 Speaker 1: people to be able to deal with them one by 500 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,600 Speaker 1: one by one, so you have a holistic approach to 501 00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:47,160 Speaker 1: attack and whatever the problem was. And so that was 502 00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:50,240 Speaker 1: a hell of a learning experience for me. Let me 503 00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:53,600 Speaker 1: give you a shout out excellence Charter School and bed 504 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:57,200 Speaker 1: Stye proving all kids can do well. Over three quarters 505 00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 1: of the students qualified for free or reduced race lunches 506 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:05,680 Speaker 1: poverty and they test above both city and state averages 507 00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:08,120 Speaker 1: from math. Great congratulations and I know you put your 508 00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:11,200 Speaker 1: heart and soul into that one. Well, that was actually 509 00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:14,240 Speaker 1: a continuation of the I have a Dream project that 510 00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:18,000 Speaker 1: I talked about in six because when I learned ten 511 00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:20,560 Speaker 1: years into that was getting kids at twelve years of 512 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:23,360 Speaker 1: age was twelve years too late. So I said, Okay, 513 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:25,440 Speaker 1: if we're gonna get an education business, let's get in it. 514 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:30,000 Speaker 1: We started a charter school. It was the first all 515 00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:34,160 Speaker 1: boys African American charter school. And then we started a 516 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:37,760 Speaker 1: sister school all girls about four or five years later. 517 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:40,800 Speaker 1: That was also a hell of a journey. Year one, 518 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:44,720 Speaker 1: everything's great. We went K one to everything's great. Year two. 519 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:48,080 Speaker 1: First semester, we're kind of doing some testing and stuff. 520 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:51,840 Speaker 1: Everything's great. We got to the second semester of year 521 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:55,320 Speaker 1: two and I had this fabulous headmaster. If you look 522 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:58,560 Speaker 1: at our early board of excellence, it's like the who's 523 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:03,080 Speaker 1: who of great educators America. It's amazing. Norman Atkins, David Saltzman, 524 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:07,560 Speaker 1: Shibali Sawicki. We really had some incredible people. John King, 525 00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:10,720 Speaker 1: the Secretary of Education under Obama, was our property. He 526 00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:14,160 Speaker 1: brought him in a year two. I'll never forget. Norman 527 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:16,560 Speaker 1: came up and said, listen, Paul, John wants to talk 528 00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:18,200 Speaker 1: to you because we're gonna have to make some changes. 529 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,560 Speaker 1: So I said, great, no problem. And John talks to 530 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:23,480 Speaker 1: me and goes, Okay, listen, at the next board meeting, 531 00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:28,040 Speaker 1: we're gonna have some problems because of our twenty three teachers. 532 00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:34,120 Speaker 1: I'm not renewing the contracts on eleven of them. I said, what. 533 00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:37,040 Speaker 1: He goes, No, eleven of them are not coming back. 534 00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:40,160 Speaker 1: And I said, John, God, you can't do that. You 535 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,160 Speaker 1: can't let eleven teachers go. He said, well, you told 536 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:45,680 Speaker 1: me that the reason the name of this school is 537 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:49,000 Speaker 1: Excellence is because you wanted to be the top performing 538 00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:51,320 Speaker 1: school in the city and you wanted excellence. And if 539 00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:54,200 Speaker 1: you want that, we've got a couple of teachers here 540 00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:56,080 Speaker 1: that just don't have their heart and soul in it 541 00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,360 Speaker 1: the way they should. They're working hard, but they don't 542 00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:03,560 Speaker 1: have the ped logical skills to be able to do 543 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:07,160 Speaker 1: the job they need to. I said, Norman, I don't 544 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:08,560 Speaker 1: know if we can do this. He said, If you 545 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:12,080 Speaker 1: don't do this, John King, who's the greatest single educator 546 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:15,840 Speaker 1: in America today, is gonna leave. So you have a choice. 547 00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:18,720 Speaker 1: Is it the teachers or is it the kids? Because 548 00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:20,640 Speaker 1: if you want to be great, you have to do 549 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 1: what John says, And he goes at the board meeting, 550 00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:26,880 Speaker 1: they're gonna protest, and then a lot of the parents 551 00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:28,760 Speaker 1: are gonna be there. So we have this board meeting. 552 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:33,160 Speaker 1: All of a sudden, here come, holy Cow, a hundred parents. 553 00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:37,280 Speaker 1: I swear it reminded me of the sit ins of 554 00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:41,520 Speaker 1: the sixties. These parents have got placards. No, no, we 555 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:43,800 Speaker 1: won't take it. No no, we won't take it. Their 556 00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:46,080 Speaker 1: chant and all this stuff. And so here I am 557 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:49,960 Speaker 1: white guy living in Connecticut from Memphis, chairman the board, 558 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:52,680 Speaker 1: and I said to him, Okay, listen, here's the bottom line. 559 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:55,959 Speaker 1: I just sat over there for that whole afternoon. The 560 00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:59,160 Speaker 1: next day, went through it with the parents, went through 561 00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:01,000 Speaker 1: it with a teacher because the teachers, a lot of 562 00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:05,080 Speaker 1: them had worked really hard. Pride commiserated, and we said 563 00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:07,640 Speaker 1: we're gonna move on. We're gonna go with John King. 564 00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:12,760 Speaker 1: Three years later, we were out of fire elementary schools 565 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:17,800 Speaker 1: in New York, including all the suburbs, all boys, African American. 566 00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:22,000 Speaker 1: We were number one out ofte And the point is, 567 00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:26,800 Speaker 1: if you put kids first, same way with robin Hood, 568 00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:32,280 Speaker 1: you put your constituents first, everything else falls away. You're 569 00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:35,200 Speaker 1: gonna do a hell of a job and accomplishing your mission. 570 00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:39,680 Speaker 1: Although robin Hood dominates your image. You're actively involved in 571 00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:42,400 Speaker 1: a lot of other causes. Conservation is a big one 572 00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:43,720 Speaker 1: for you. Can you tell us a little bit about 573 00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:47,640 Speaker 1: the Everglades Foundation that you co founded. The Everglades is 574 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:52,080 Speaker 1: America's second largest national park, and it's under attack because 575 00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:57,600 Speaker 1: of agricultural runoff that has dumped too much phost for 576 00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:03,800 Speaker 1: us into the hydrology of the Everglades and is causing 577 00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:07,680 Speaker 1: substantial changes over time. And so we've been trying to 578 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:12,360 Speaker 1: fight that fight for the past thirty years. Incrementally, every 579 00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:15,200 Speaker 1: year we fight and fight and fight. We scrap for 580 00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:17,960 Speaker 1: every dollar federal funding we can for every project that 581 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:23,880 Speaker 1: we do. Cumulatively, it makes a big, big difference. I'm 582 00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:27,800 Speaker 1: really hopeful and optimistic at that park will be back 583 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:30,759 Speaker 1: to what it was, say a hundred years ago, in 584 00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:34,560 Speaker 1: another two decades. The question is who are the flag 585 00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:38,880 Speaker 1: bearers they're gonna pick it up when our current generation 586 00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:41,560 Speaker 1: of leaders and board members aren't there. Here's what I've 587 00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:44,480 Speaker 1: learned in all the environmental battles I've been in, all 588 00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:49,000 Speaker 1: the conservation causes. We'll never win the battle. The battle 589 00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:52,120 Speaker 1: is too hard to win. What we've got to do 590 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:55,759 Speaker 1: is we've got to be the holding action for the 591 00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:59,920 Speaker 1: next generation. We've got to be the people that can 592 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:04,800 Speaker 1: carrying us forward so that there can be some solution 593 00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:07,880 Speaker 1: down the road. Talk a little bit about the conservation 594 00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:09,799 Speaker 1: programs you've been able to do in Africa with the 595 00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:13,920 Speaker 1: wildlife reserve there. The conservation model in Africa is really simple. 596 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:18,200 Speaker 1: Find a national park and iconic national park. Generally they're 597 00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:24,040 Speaker 1: surrounded by game reserves that are set aside for hunting concessions. 598 00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:31,520 Speaker 1: Take those hunting concessions and convert them into eco tourism models. 599 00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:36,239 Speaker 1: Do the eco tourism adjacent to the national park, help 600 00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:40,560 Speaker 1: fund the national park so that you're lifting the entire 601 00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:45,960 Speaker 1: ecosystem and intensively manage that game reserve. I've done that 602 00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:52,080 Speaker 1: in Zimbabwe next to Gonna Razoo National Park, Tanzania, next 603 00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:55,080 Speaker 1: to the Serengeti National Park, Zambia, now next to the 604 00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:58,840 Speaker 1: Kafui National Park, and I think that's really the best model. 605 00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:03,720 Speaker 1: We're gonna have to pick maybe the fifty most iconic 606 00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:07,480 Speaker 1: ecosystems and ring fenced them over the next thirty to 607 00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:09,840 Speaker 1: forty years, because you've got a population is supposed to 608 00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:11,680 Speaker 1: go from a b and a half to four billion 609 00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:15,680 Speaker 1: if it doesn't have consumptive value. The history mankind is 610 00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:18,480 Speaker 1: is going to disappear. There are fifty million buffalo on 611 00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:22,120 Speaker 1: the Great Planes. Their consumptive value was not as great 612 00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:24,600 Speaker 1: as the crops that could be grown there, and that's 613 00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:27,719 Speaker 1: why we now have to earn fifty thousand buffalo. So 614 00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:33,400 Speaker 1: great eco tourism models hopefully will pay the local communities, 615 00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:38,520 Speaker 1: the local neighbors, the local people enough to forego going 616 00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:41,799 Speaker 1: into those areas or killing that gang. You use your 617 00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:45,280 Speaker 1: business success to get deeper meaning to your life and others. 618 00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:48,239 Speaker 1: From that vantage point, what advice would you give to 619 00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:51,640 Speaker 1: young people just starting their adult life. My philosophy has 620 00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:56,120 Speaker 1: been outward and forward. Don't look inward, look outward, don't 621 00:36:56,120 --> 00:37:00,720 Speaker 1: think about yourself, think about somebody else. No, look back, 622 00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:07,400 Speaker 1: look forward. That's the secret to a really, really happy life. 623 00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:11,480 Speaker 1: Otherwise your tombstone is gonna say, before I got in 624 00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:16,280 Speaker 1: the box, I knew myself really well, which might be great, 625 00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:20,080 Speaker 1: but I don't know how happy you'll necessarily be if 626 00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:24,520 Speaker 1: you're thinking about others and you're not worrying about the 627 00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:27,520 Speaker 1: mistakes you make. God knows havny mistakes I've made. You're 628 00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:31,040 Speaker 1: instead worrying about how you're gonna make the people around 629 00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:33,319 Speaker 1: you better. How they you make the world around you better. 630 00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:36,960 Speaker 1: So take a small step, do what you can, and oh, 631 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:39,880 Speaker 1: by the way, the greatest people you'll ever meet in 632 00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:44,240 Speaker 1: your life. Look at our friendship you meet through helping others, 633 00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:47,200 Speaker 1: no doubt about it. Less we wrap up, we always 634 00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:49,319 Speaker 1: do a shout out to those who have influenced us 635 00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:52,320 Speaker 1: through Mathew magic. You live with the world of quants. 636 00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:55,600 Speaker 1: Who's the person you admire most who influenced on that 637 00:37:55,719 --> 00:38:00,920 Speaker 1: logical quant side of life. My biggest men tour in 638 00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:05,520 Speaker 1: business was my first boss, Eli Tullis, closely followed by 639 00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:09,480 Speaker 1: my uncle Billy Donovant. Both of those guys were geniuses 640 00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:11,920 Speaker 1: when it came to trading, and what they taught me 641 00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:16,040 Speaker 1: was toughness. What Eli taught me was he had just 642 00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:19,600 Speaker 1: literally gotten slaughtered in the markets. I thought he lost 643 00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:23,400 Speaker 1: like sevent of his net worth. And he had a 644 00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,800 Speaker 1: lunch with the Garden Club in New Orleans and those 645 00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:29,279 Speaker 1: ladies came in and he had the biggest smile his 646 00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:33,879 Speaker 1: face and was the most incredible gentleman. This debonair Rock 647 00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:36,799 Speaker 1: and Tour, and I thought, oh my lord, this is 648 00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:40,000 Speaker 1: the strongest human being I've ever seen in my life, 649 00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:42,640 Speaker 1: and I'll never forget that. So let's go through the 650 00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:46,640 Speaker 1: magician's side, excluding you, who's the greatest showman? You know? 651 00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:49,480 Speaker 1: The creative type I'll tell you has had a huge 652 00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:52,960 Speaker 1: impact on my life. God bless his soul was Tony Robbins. 653 00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:57,480 Speaker 1: He became my life coach in ninety three. He's so 654 00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:03,799 Speaker 1: good at time, managed it, creating an organizational framework to 655 00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:07,680 Speaker 1: live your life in the most productive way, creating processes 656 00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:11,919 Speaker 1: that you can follow, getting you to think about how 657 00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:14,879 Speaker 1: I'm going to move forward, not worrying about what I've 658 00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:17,680 Speaker 1: done the past. Paul, You've created so much good in 659 00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:21,160 Speaker 1: the world and continue to do it. Thanks for being 660 00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:24,080 Speaker 1: here today and thanks for all you're doing. Thank you, Bob, 661 00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:27,360 Speaker 1: appreciate it. Love talking with the voice of God anytime. 662 00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:31,000 Speaker 1: Here are a few things I picked up in my 663 00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:35,600 Speaker 1: conversation with Paul. One, market incentives can motivate nonprofits to 664 00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:38,319 Speaker 1: do better work. It's one of Paul's guiding principles at 665 00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:41,839 Speaker 1: the Robin Hood Foundation to know how much risk you're 666 00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:44,960 Speaker 1: comfortable with. You can be a successful investor with high 667 00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:48,160 Speaker 1: or low risk investments. But as Paul said, it's just 668 00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:51,120 Speaker 1: as important to be able to get a good night's sleep. Three, 669 00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:55,719 Speaker 1: focus on long term outcomes, not easy solutions. In philanthropy, 670 00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:58,319 Speaker 1: Paul is always thinking about how he can have the 671 00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:02,800 Speaker 1: biggest impact over the law longest time. Thanks for listening. 672 00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:08,400 Speaker 1: I'm Bob Pittman. That's it for today's episode. Thanks so 673 00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:10,799 Speaker 1: much for listening to Math and Magic, a production of 674 00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:13,760 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. This show is hosted by Bob Pittman. 675 00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:16,680 Speaker 1: Special thanks to Sue Schillinger for booking and wrangling our 676 00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:19,920 Speaker 1: wonderful talent, which just no small feat Nikki Etre for 677 00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:23,640 Speaker 1: pulling research bill plaques, and Michael Asar for their recording help, 678 00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:27,800 Speaker 1: our editor Ryan Murdoch, and of course Gayle Raoul, Eric Angel, 679 00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:30,840 Speaker 1: Noel Mango and everyone who helped bring this show to 680 00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:32,560 Speaker 1: your ears. Until next time,