Speaker 1: Welcome to Securing America with me Frank Affney, the program
Speaker 1: that's a kind of owner's manual for protecting the country
Speaker 1: we love against all enemies foreign and domestic, to the
Speaker 1: glory of God and his Kingdom. We're going to start
Speaker 1: this program with what I consider to be one of
Speaker 1: the most important segments we do each week. Usually I'm
Speaker 1: accompanied by my friend Dide Logison, who is not with
Speaker 1: us today, but we're going to try to solder on
Speaker 1: as best we can talking about the very desperate plight
Speaker 1: of Christians being persecuted around the world. We're going to
Speaker 1: focus on a place that is right at the vortex
Speaker 1: of much of what is happening elsewhere for many of
Speaker 1: the same reasons, and that would be the nation of Nigeria,
Speaker 1: enormous and extremely wealthy and extremely well beset country beset
Speaker 1: specifically by jihadists that are seeking to destroy the roughly
Speaker 1: half of the population of that nation that are Christians.
Speaker 1: We're going to talk about it with a man who
Speaker 1: hails from Nigeria and who has been devoting much of
Speaker 1: his life both before he came to the United States
Speaker 1: and since to try to relieve the suffering of persecuted
Speaker 1: Christians there and more to the point, to address the
Speaker 1: root causes of it, and we've been very proud to
Speaker 1: collaborate with Stephen Anada in his various roles to that
Speaker 1: end as part of our Save the Persecuted Christians coalition
Speaker 1: of which Daily Laguson is the president and c oh
Speaker 1: We're so pleased to have you with us, Stephen. We
Speaker 1: have not talked in a while, and it's really urgently
Speaker 1: needed that we take stock of what is happening in
Speaker 1: your country of origin and what we are doing to
Speaker 1: help as a nation and what we need to be
Speaker 1: doing above and beyond that.
Speaker 2: I'm glad to have you with us.
Speaker 3: Welcome, Thank you, Frank.
Speaker 4: It's my pleasure and honored and privileged to be with
Speaker 4: you today. Yeah, the fact remains that Christians are being
Speaker 4: killed daily in Algeria and it has not stopped. And
Speaker 4: the problem has been one that there is a mis
Speaker 4: leveling of the problem because the Government of Nigeria has
Speaker 4: successfully deployed a lot of money to lobby Washington, d C.
Speaker 4: Government and that has really projected. Nigeria has been uh
Speaker 4: uh uh contested by the ISIS and Bokoharam, which is
Speaker 4: part of the problem But what people who have forgotten
Speaker 4: is are full and militants who are lithers, who are
Speaker 4: more lithard than all other terrorists. Organizations are protected by
Speaker 4: government agencies, religious leaders who actually want to protect full
Speaker 4: and in military from being exposed. But they are the
Speaker 4: warm killing Christians taking over farmlands, taken over territories in
Speaker 4: the Middle bed and the northeastern part of Nigeria and
Speaker 4: even across this.
Speaker 1: Aha, I want to just because to that point, because
Speaker 1: you now run an organization, a new organization called the
Speaker 1: International Committee on Nigeria and the Sahel. This would be
Speaker 1: the surrounding nations of Nigeria that have also been afflicted
Speaker 1: to varying degrees by these nomadic Fulani tribesmen. They have
Speaker 1: been able to roam in and out of Nigeria pretty
Speaker 1: much with impunity. Tell us about the extent to which
Speaker 1: the government of Nigeria is not only well, shall we say,
Speaker 1: abiding what they're doing, but actually is enabling it. And
Speaker 1: what does that have to do with the composition of
Speaker 1: the Nigerian government itself, sir, Well.
Speaker 4: Now, if you begin to look at narrative emanating from
Speaker 4: Nderia government, well, for example, if full animilitant attacks and
Speaker 4: the hell. Then the the Sultan of Sokoto will come
Speaker 4: and speak on their behalf and you begin to see
Speaker 4: even bested government when his own people were killed by
Speaker 4: full and amilitant, he came in defense of lanimilitant. Then
Speaker 4: when you talk about Nigeria border which is poor us,
Speaker 4: Nagera government allows this full animilitant to roam or the
Speaker 4: Sahelian region without any inhibition and that means the government
Speaker 4: territory which is north eastern Nigeria and the Sahelian Region
Speaker 4: which comprise of about sixteen countries, is left on government.
Speaker 3: And this from human.
Speaker 4: Trafficking to sexual slavery, to narcotic trafficking and all the
Speaker 4: rest come together. And because it is now structurally intertwined
Speaker 4: with this transnational organized crime, which Nagera government is not
Speaker 4: doing anything because it is deliberate adaptive strategy that allows
Speaker 4: is our groups to fund operations and to take over land.
Speaker 3: So Nageria government allows them to roam.
Speaker 4: So you have religious leader especially this sortan promoting I'm
Speaker 4: defending and also asking Nadia government not to name them
Speaker 4: because naming Fulani as a terrorist organization means terrorism. Nagia
Speaker 4: will be defeated and also in South South Africa.
Speaker 1: One point that I just wanted to clarify. It's my
Speaker 1: understanding that part of what's going on in terms of
Speaker 1: the at best the blind eye that the government of
Speaker 1: Nigeria is turning towards these militants of jihadas I would
Speaker 1: call them, is that it's largely comprised of Fulani ethnic
Speaker 1: tribesmen as well. Is that correct sir?
Speaker 3: Yes, it's people like we have to name.
Speaker 4: They recoup Preed which is full animilitant because like I said,
Speaker 4: they are more Litha.
Speaker 3: We are on ground and they.
Speaker 4: Have taken territories across Plateau, benuet Taraba, Adamawa just mentioned
Speaker 4: Kaduna they keep.
Speaker 3: So the truth is.
Speaker 1: There, of course important states in Nigeria. Rah.
Speaker 3: If we refuse to name then.
Speaker 4: And we don't we misdorganize the problem, then we are
Speaker 4: not going to have solutions to Nigeria problem. One that
Speaker 4: the most lith group terrorist group in Nigeria is actually
Speaker 4: full animilitant, So it is Boko arm I think it's
Speaker 4: just not as leather as full animilitant.
Speaker 1: That's amazing. Everything we've heard about Bokahamas that it's pretty horrific.
Speaker 1: So that sets the bar very high. And as you're
Speaker 1: looking at the situation in Nigeria, President Don Trump has
Speaker 1: on two different occasions sent US military forces into attack
Speaker 1: people in the hope of preventing further slaughter of Christians there. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: the slaughter continues. Does that have something to do with
Speaker 1: the targeting of American military powers.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's very unfortunate because if US military with Nigeria
Speaker 4: military just attack one single entity and then they refuse
Speaker 4: to attack the rest, it means the vulnerable community are
Speaker 4: in trouble. And it's like a lot of people briefing
Speaker 4: President Trump, which is a good intention to help Nigeria Christians,
Speaker 4: is not enough. And the reason why it is not
Speaker 4: enough one is that we have a lot of people
Speaker 4: misadvising President Trump about the real issue in Nigeria.
Speaker 3: One.
Speaker 4: He has to understand that full and in militant is
Speaker 4: actually the hardra headed monster that needs to be defeated
Speaker 4: and doing that it means we are destroying the Islamic Caliphate,
Speaker 4: Islamic conscendants in Nigeria and the Sub So Africa. So
Speaker 4: I think everybody that is advising President Trump or Nigeria
Speaker 4: has been deceived by Nigeria government has been deceived by
Speaker 4: a lot of money bags who profit from terrorism, and
Speaker 4: I can tell you, yes.
Speaker 1: We have to take a short break. I want you
Speaker 1: to tell me on the other side of that, if
Speaker 1: you would. We're talking with Steven and Nada of the
Speaker 1: International Committee on Nigeria and the Sahel about what's going
Speaker 1: on in that country and we're going to talk about
Speaker 1: next what we have to do about it.
Speaker 2: Right after this.
Speaker 1: Come back. We are speaking with Stephen Andada, a freedom
Speaker 1: fighter from Nigeria who has devoted much of his life
Speaker 1: to trying to spare the roughly half of the two
Speaker 1: hundred million or so Nigerians in their population from the
Speaker 1: predations of jihadists. There are several different entities that are
Speaker 1: mounting attacks on the Christians, but according to Stephen, the
Speaker 1: worst of the bunch is a group called the Fulani
Speaker 1: tribesmen and militants who are now operating with impunity in Nigeria,
Speaker 1: partly because the Fulanis in the government of Nigeria are
Speaker 1: supporting them and enabling even the attacks that they're engaged
Speaker 1: in at the moment. So, Stephen, you were telling us
Speaker 1: a little bit about uh the sort of complexion of
Speaker 1: what President Trump is being told about all of this.
Speaker 1: He clearly wants to help save for secured Christians. I
Speaker 1: think he actually said recently that the mission was accomplished
Speaker 1: of doing that. And yet what you're describing as the
Speaker 1: worst of the people viciously attacking Christians, namely the Fulani,
Speaker 1: are very much still in business and supported by the government.
Speaker 3: Is that right, Yes, sir.
Speaker 4: If you are going to fight is sogainst it's against
Speaker 4: the and tera Rizi in Nigeria.
Speaker 3: Militant is the cost group to be at rest.
Speaker 4: And one because over the years they've denied that they
Speaker 4: are not killing. Over the years, they have taken over
Speaker 4: territories and lands. And if you are attacking Boko around
Speaker 4: who actually are in the northeastern zone and Fulanny are
Speaker 4: almost everywhere. There is no state in Anjia that Fulany
Speaker 4: militants have not attacked. They've killed, they've plundered, and I
Speaker 4: can tell you even in the south they are occupying
Speaker 4: the forests territories and they are into illegal mining to
Speaker 4: fund their operations. They are in cahood with China illegal
Speaker 4: miners and that gives them money to fund land grabbing
Speaker 4: and territorial expansion and anytime. The idea they established Islamic
Speaker 4: caliphate to begin to rule their place with Islamic laws,
Speaker 4: and the lookers, they don't have access to their farmland,
Speaker 4: to their fishing pond, and the lands are decided.
Speaker 3: Why full any militant establish mosque shrines.
Speaker 4: To compare every living human in that territory to become
Speaker 4: a Muslim. And they established Shariah and that is what
Speaker 4: they believe in, that everybody must become a Christian and
Speaker 4: ruled by Sharia law. And that is actually the concept
Speaker 4: of Islamic ideology globally.
Speaker 3: Anywhere they are and they are.
Speaker 4: Able to take political power, they want to establish Sharia
Speaker 4: law that every person was a bad buy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, as you know, we are very actively trying to
Speaker 1: resist that here in the United States. Could you just
Speaker 1: describe a little bit what the implications are if the
Speaker 1: feloneys are allowed to continue unchecked ergy hard against Christians
Speaker 1: in Nigeria. What are the implications for you know, Europe,
Speaker 1: other parts of Africa, of course, but as far you
Speaker 1: know from it all, as even the United States itself.
Speaker 3: Thank you, Frank.
Speaker 4: The This is just the obvious reason why President Trump
Speaker 4: must refocus his attention on Nigeria. Why is because Nigeria
Speaker 4: is is a population of over two hundred and forty million.
Speaker 4: Imagine the full and in militant over run overtake the
Speaker 4: government Iran will be a child play and once America
Speaker 4: will have a lot even not Europe.
Speaker 3: Europe is already believeed Europe is weak.
Speaker 4: But what will happen if you allow full and in
Speaker 4: Mili it turned to establish to take over of a
Speaker 4: run Nadia and Nadia include, then you have Iran two
Speaker 4: point two. And what that means is that America will
Speaker 4: have another tater of war because the intention finally is
Speaker 4: to use that population and resources to make sure the
Speaker 4: Whig war in American homeland and that is going to
Speaker 4: that is like ten ten years away from maturing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a It's a point that we try to
Speaker 1: make practically daily, Steven, And you understand so well. We're
Speaker 1: dealing with a global Islamic movement. The Muslim Brotherhood is
Speaker 1: kind of the vanguard of it on the Sunni side.
Speaker 1: You've got the Iranians on the Shia side. But what
Speaker 1: you're describing is that by creating a caliphate in Nigeria,
Speaker 1: pulling in large numbers of jihadists from around the world
Speaker 1: and then dominating all of Nigeria, driving out the Christians
Speaker 1: or killing them, taking their land and so on. We
Speaker 1: could well find a diaspora unlike anything we've seen so far,
Speaker 1: with people, you know, trying desperately to get to Europe
Speaker 1: and ultimately to many Canada and the United States as well.
Speaker 2: Is that right?
Speaker 4: Yes, don't forget that Nigerians are very educated, most Nigerians
Speaker 4: and the truth of the matter is that they I
Speaker 4: employ almost everywhere in the world.
Speaker 3: So if Nageria implude.
Speaker 4: Then and then there will be chain migration because you
Speaker 4: want to bring your family. And what that LEAs is
Speaker 4: that there will be a lot of humanitarian crisis in Canada,
Speaker 4: in the US, in Europe.
Speaker 3: And what that LEAs is that.
Speaker 4: They import some will import Islamic geology to their host nation.
Speaker 4: And what that is is that the UVA went and
Speaker 4: then you will not want to assimilate into the culture
Speaker 4: of their host nations. I'm not talking about people who
Speaker 4: are saying I'm not talking about Christians, I'm not talking
Speaker 4: about people who are of no faith, who don't believe
Speaker 4: in terrorism. But I'm talking through that infiltration, you will
Speaker 4: see a lot of people sneaking into the United States,
Speaker 4: into Canada. And then when you have when you have
Speaker 4: poor US border and you have a situation where people
Speaker 4: can sneak in into the forced system, the intention is
Speaker 4: to stay there and make sure what in communities in America,
Speaker 4: for example, that are clamoring to establish area, what that
Speaker 4: misses sort people who find themselves there and they take
Speaker 4: over and gradually they will around the system, and then
Speaker 4: they will get themselves elected into political offices. And once
Speaker 4: that is done, they will begin to legislate, and they
Speaker 4: will begin.
Speaker 3: To to get rid of.
Speaker 4: Democratic ketos and values, and then they will begin to
Speaker 4: let this leads Shariah in the constitution.
Speaker 1: That is a phenomenon called one man, one vote, one time.
Speaker 1: You'll get this, you know, enslavement basically that companies Sharia
Speaker 1: with respect to so called unbelievers. So, Steven, we've got
Speaker 1: about a minute and a half left, just very quickly,
Speaker 1: what are your recommendations to the Trump administration from the
Speaker 1: International Committee on Nigeria and the sohal Yeah, I.
Speaker 4: Will first of all, for protecting America from being infiltrated
Speaker 4: and also from future attack. President Trump should begin to
Speaker 4: listen to voice of reasons like yours and many others
Speaker 4: who understand these issues, so that you will be appropriately
Speaker 4: advised about the issues on grand one that full and
Speaker 4: militant actually one of the media problems of terrorists and
Speaker 4: insurgency a tivty. He's in Nigerian and desireed. So they
Speaker 4: will begin to look at foreign policies the mainstream into
Speaker 4: what is happening and who are the actors, especially the
Speaker 4: state actors who found all who enable these terrorries says
Speaker 4: to fester. So for me, I think there should be
Speaker 4: there should be a new level of briefing President Trump
Speaker 4: on the real issue on grant so that he will
Speaker 4: not leave. He will not leave his office and then
Speaker 4: people will be killed in millions because yeah, waiting for
Speaker 4: him to.
Speaker 1: Leave even sooner than when he leaves office. I'm afraid
Speaker 1: even we are hard out of time. I'm sorry we
Speaker 1: have to let you go. Thank you for this update.
Speaker 1: I hope you'll keep coming back to us with more.
Speaker 1: We are anxious to try, no kidding to say, persecuted
Speaker 1: Christians and Nigeria and around the world. God bless you,
Speaker 1: my friend, a state and Fox. We will be right
Speaker 1: back with much more. Welcome back and a very special
Speaker 1: welcome to a woman that I have admired greatly and
Speaker 1: had some wonderful conversations with over the years, but not
Speaker 1: in altogether too long. The name is Cheryl Chumley, and
Speaker 1: I've just discovered doing a little bit of long overdue
Speaker 1: background that she has, among other things in her story career,
Speaker 1: a time in the United States military. So I thought
Speaker 1: I might get a reaction from her to one of
Speaker 1: the stories that were following, and that I'm a bit
Speaker 1: concerned about. I must say, let me just give you
Speaker 1: a little bit of context for all of this with
Speaker 1: a commentary on my own. In the unrestricted warfare, the
Speaker 1: Chinese Communist Party has long waged against the United States.
Speaker 1: One of its most effective lines of attack has involved
Speaker 1: the weaponization of the CCP's so called old friends in America.
Speaker 1: Intrepid investigative journalist Natalie Winners revealed this week that since
Speaker 1: two thousand and eight, China's influence operations and intelligence services
Speaker 1: have cultivated relationships with former members of the Joint chiefs
Speaker 1: of Staff and combatant commanders. They discuss sensitive and high
Speaker 1: risk subjects, including Taiwan, the South China Sea, and missile defense.
Speaker 1: A driving force behind this Sanya initiative is former Joint
Speaker 1: Chiefs Vice Chairman Bill Owens, who actually went to work
Speaker 1: for the CCP's notorious telecommunications and espionage company, Huawei, and
Speaker 1: even penned an article urging that we treat China as
Speaker 1: a friend, there must be penalties for being an old
Speaker 1: friend of our mortal enemy, the Chinese Communist Party. Those
Speaker 1: are some of my thoughts. For more of them, follow
Speaker 1: me at x at Frank Gaffney and also at usfuture
Speaker 1: dot org, the website of the Institute for the American Future,
Speaker 1: which makes this program possible. I hope you will too,
Speaker 1: generously donating if you can at usfuture dot org. Cheryl,
Speaker 1: it's good to have you back. By apologies for this
Speaker 1: having been so long delayed, a return to securing America,
Speaker 1: but really delighted to have you with us.
Speaker 5: Always great to be with you, Frank, thank you.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 1: Let me begin, Cheryl by saying that you are, of course,
Speaker 1: at the moment, the online opinion editor of the Washington Times.
Speaker 1: You have a very impressive podcast, Bold and Blood. You
Speaker 1: have numerous books to your credit, including a couple will
Speaker 1: talk about in the course of the program. Socialists Don't
Speaker 1: Sleep for example, if Christians don't rise, America will fall.
Speaker 1: As the subtitle, let's talk a little bit about the
Speaker 1: Chinese Communist Party and their friends, old friends among our
Speaker 1: captured elites as they called them, but also they're friends
Speaker 1: like democratic socialists. You felt your finger on the pulse
Speaker 1: of what's happening in all of these spaces. Give us
Speaker 1: your thoughts about.
Speaker 5: And see how we can ever consider China a friends.
Speaker 5: And I think we made this mistake back in the
Speaker 5: nineteen eighties. Even Newt Gingrich had an idea that if
Speaker 5: we just reach out to China, welcome them into the
Speaker 5: global economy, that they will naturally turn into a free
Speaker 5: market and they would become biological extension, they would become
Speaker 5: free they would adopt more Western ways. Well, it backfired,
Speaker 5: and all China did was steal our technology, you steal
Speaker 5: our ideas, and insert themselves with an even larger footprint
Speaker 5: into America's politics and culture. So it's just tried already.
Speaker 5: You know, to be friends with China. You can't be
Speaker 5: friends with communists.
Speaker 1: Right, especially since they're pretty clear about seeking the destruction
Speaker 1: of our country. Samuel Johnson said this about second marriages.
Speaker 1: It's the triumph of hope over experience to think that
Speaker 1: you know, somehow this will work out now. And I'd
Speaker 1: like to think that these general officers are wiser as
Speaker 1: a result of these decades of conversations. But on the
Speaker 1: other hand, it does seem, sheriln you sort of alluded
Speaker 1: to it there, that that penetration of our society often
Speaker 1: translates into people's compromise and in some cases even becoming
Speaker 1: sort of as with Bill Owens, I think engine for
Speaker 1: propagating the well, the disinformation, the subversion of these enemies.
Speaker 5: It's called normalizing evil, right, which is something when you
Speaker 5: play the long term game like China does, like Islamist do,
Speaker 5: which is sort of related to this sort of injection
Speaker 5: of dangerous entities into America's culture and politics. When you
Speaker 5: play the long game, you start looking at the generations,
Speaker 5: You start looking at the youth of America and how
Speaker 5: you can sort of numb the youth to the dangers
Speaker 5: of communism. And this is where we're at now. Frank,
Speaker 5: you see it as well as I do. I'm sure
Speaker 5: most of your watchers and listeners do as well. That
Speaker 5: you know, twenty years ago, socialism communism used to be
Speaker 5: dirty words in America. Now we have open socialists being
Speaker 5: cheered in their political runs in winning and the next
Speaker 5: step is just to have open common So China is
Speaker 5: very good at injecting itself into America's culture, which is
Speaker 5: where the hearts and minds change.
Speaker 1: On that point, you know, there's an effort at the
Speaker 1: moment in this sort of penetration and well, I call
Speaker 1: it frog boiling that there's a patina of respectability applied
Speaker 1: to socialism by calling it democratic socialism. Is there a
Speaker 1: dimes worth of difference between democratic socialists and other garden
Speaker 1: variety socialists and for that matter, between socialists and communists.
Speaker 5: Sure no, And there are a couple different ways to
Speaker 5: answer that. First off, if you look at the platforms,
Speaker 5: if you look at the party platforms that are put
Speaker 5: out on their own websites of socialists and Democrat socialists
Speaker 5: very little different. You can actually expand that and look
Speaker 5: at the platforms of socialists Democrat socialists, which is a movement,
Speaker 5: a campaign, not a political party, but they still have
Speaker 5: an agenda. Also, look at communists and really look at progressives,
Speaker 5: right because way back when socialists was still a dirty word,
Speaker 5: we had the progressives making their mark on Congress, the
Speaker 5: Progressive Caucus. We had progressives running for office under the
Speaker 5: Democrat umbrella, but you look at all their own stated
Speaker 5: goals and visions for America, and they're identical. The Democrat
Speaker 5: Party of today is basically in lockstep with what Marxism
Speaker 5: puts forth and what the Communist Party USA puts forth.
Speaker 1: That's a pretty powerful indictment. And I'm old enough to remember.
Speaker 1: I'm old enough to remember when they they had to
Speaker 1: use the term progressive because liberal had become a dirty
Speaker 1: word when it was it was moved to the far
Speaker 1: left by George McGovern and people like him. To just
Speaker 1: tie this back into the military, though, you know, you
Speaker 1: served both in the Army and the Air Guard, as
Speaker 1: I recall, does it discomfort you that you would see,
Speaker 1: you know, former members, as I said, of the Joint
Speaker 1: chiefs of Staff and combatant commanders participating in what is
Speaker 1: fairly transparently this isn't entirely new news. I think Natalie's
Speaker 1: pulled it together in a compelling way. But this has
Speaker 1: been going on, you know, for the better part of
Speaker 1: two decades. These are people who would you would have thought,
Speaker 1: would know better than to be consorting with groups that
Speaker 1: are tied not only to the United Front of the
Speaker 1: Chinese Communist Party, which is no runs its influence operations,
Speaker 1: but actually organizations that are tied to Chinese intelligence as well. Well.
Speaker 5: The short answer is yes, of course, it concerns me,
Speaker 5: just as it concerns me. How under Barack Obama and
Speaker 5: then again under Joe Biden, we saw the military move
Speaker 5: into this sort of dei wokeism type of training.
Speaker 1: Instead of cultural Marxist.
Speaker 5: Right, instead of focusing on their core mission of defending
Speaker 5: America from enemies foreign and domestic, they moved into this
Speaker 5: just this cultural you know, feel that the left wanted
Speaker 5: to move the military down. The optimistic look at at
Speaker 5: these sort of relations could be that if you look
Speaker 5: at what President Donald Trump does so successfully as commander
Speaker 5: in chief, he's very pro America, and he doesn't he
Speaker 5: doesn't sway from that in terms of policy, but he
Speaker 5: does reach out and sort of act more than friendly
Speaker 5: to governments with evil, nefarious intents against America. He pretends
Speaker 5: as if he's friendly with Putin and he's on good
Speaker 5: terms with g and so forth. But I think in
Speaker 5: the end he does that simply because it moves America
Speaker 5: down a diplomatic path without compromising America's security. And so
Speaker 5: the optimistic approach would be that maybe some of these
Speaker 5: military leaders are trying to do the same thing. They
Speaker 5: see diplomacy as in the end benefiting America, but they
Speaker 5: don't give up America's freedoms as they tread this diplomatic path.
Speaker 5: I'm not sure that's going on here, but in some
Speaker 5: cases that would be an optimistic approach.
Speaker 2: Minds.
Speaker 1: We have about the old story of the optimist who
Speaker 1: found a pile of horse maneuver and said, well, there's
Speaker 1: pony around here somewhere. I'm a little more concerned about
Speaker 1: the pile, but also about the prospect that and I found.
Speaker 1: This is partly because of the world we live in, Cheryl,
Speaker 1: people who may not really have the kind of access
Speaker 1: to information, or at least the time and energy to
Speaker 1: take it aboard to know that. Notwithstanding you know this
Speaker 1: endless report that the Jijingping is a great friend, he's
Speaker 1: a murderous thug who's determined to destroy our country, and
Speaker 1: that can be I'm afraid creating a certain false expectations
Speaker 1: or a lack of support for the kinds of steps
Speaker 1: that we need to be taking. We'll talk a little
Speaker 1: bit more about this on the other side of a
Speaker 1: very short break. Cheryl Chumbley, the Washington Times Online opinion editor,
Speaker 1: is with us, and she'll stay with us.
Speaker 2: Will be right back Statune.
Speaker 1: Welcome back. We are speaking with a great friend and
Speaker 1: very much admired colleague, Cheryl Chumley, the author of several
Speaker 1: important books, including Lockdown As the Socialists Plan to take
Speaker 1: Away Your Freedom, very much a light motif of this conversation.
Speaker 1: She is the Washington Times Online opinion editor and the
Speaker 1: host of Bolden Blunt, a very very impressive podcast. Cheryl,
Speaker 1: we were talking about communism, and I just wanted to
Speaker 1: call to your attention, especially knowing that you spent some
Speaker 1: time with the army in South Korea, that all is
Speaker 1: not well with South Korea at the moment, and in particular,
Speaker 1: there's a drama playing out, as you may or may
Speaker 1: not know, involving an ambassador by the name of Morse Tan.
Speaker 1: We had him on the program the other day. He
Speaker 1: is a man who in the first Trump administration had
Speaker 1: the portfolio of Global Criminal Justice at the State Department
Speaker 1: Ambassador at Large. He is now being effectively held hostage
Speaker 1: in South Korea. By this relatively new president who he
Speaker 1: describes as really a totalitarian, a communist, and a man
Speaker 1: who is moving South Korea inexorably into a kind of
Speaker 1: nether world of North Korean style Chinese style repression and
Speaker 1: moving it out of our lineup as a core ally
Speaker 1: in the Western Pacific into at best sort of a neutral,
Speaker 1: if not actually hostile nation. I'm very worried that that
Speaker 1: would be a profoundly, well strategically problematic development. Having spent
Speaker 1: the time there, having been in the front lines of freedom.
Speaker 5: What do you think, Well, I'm aware that South Korea
Speaker 5: is moving down this a very odd path that really
Speaker 5: many many didn't expect it didn't didn't expect South Korea
Speaker 5: to turn into sort of a mirror of North Korea.
Speaker 5: And of course it's concerning because geographically speaking, South Korea
Speaker 5: is important for America's military interests. So I know that
Speaker 5: President Trump and there were there were talks of the
Speaker 5: State Department shifting, shifting its eyes, shifting its focus on
Speaker 5: the region there. But we're being a little bit distracted,
Speaker 5: not just with Ukraine, which is lingering right, but also
Speaker 5: now with Iran and whether we can put the due
Speaker 5: diligence we need to on South Korea to pressure it
Speaker 5: to turn back toward its more free society. I don't
Speaker 5: know if President Trump has time in the remaining a
Speaker 5: couple of years of his administration.
Speaker 1: Boy I hope so, because I think the alternative, if
Speaker 1: this continues, is going to be very very well, actually dangerous,
Speaker 1: not as problematic, and he has an opportunity, you know,
Speaker 1: put a shot across the bowl of this presidently Jay
Speaker 1: neung by insisting that this former Trump ambassador be freed
Speaker 1: from what amounts to you know, a it's not exactly
Speaker 1: house arrests, I guess, but it's country arrest. He's not
Speaker 1: being allowed to come home. And this has been going
Speaker 1: on now for the better part of two months, and
Speaker 1: he's under indictment no less. And this will resonate with you.
Speaker 1: I know, he spoke truthfully, quite accurately actually about what's
Speaker 1: happening in South Korea at the National Press Club here
Speaker 1: in Washington last June, I think it was junior year
Speaker 1: ago rather, And for that he is being held hostage
Speaker 1: in South Korea and prospectively is going to be tried
Speaker 1: for criminal you know, defamation of the president of that country.
Speaker 1: And to his great credit, he's still speaking out about
Speaker 1: what's happening in South Korea even under these circumstances. And
Speaker 1: I would just encourage you, using your various platforms, your commentaries,
Speaker 1: your essays, your editorials, to help raise the alarm here
Speaker 1: and see if we can't get the Trump team to
Speaker 1: at a minimum focus on this travesty, if not the
Speaker 1: larger problem than I think it is SYMPTOMATICA.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, it is an issue that's fallen under
Speaker 5: the radar of most Americans, and not surprisingly right because
Speaker 5: America usually only has the patients and the attention span
Speaker 5: to follow one more at a time, and even only
Speaker 5: for a very short period.
Speaker 1: So yeah, and lose interest in quickly, especially if they
Speaker 1: think that they're not going to be a problem for
Speaker 1: us here at home. But I fear, and I know
Speaker 1: you know this, that especially if communists are emboldened by
Speaker 1: what they sense is a lack of attention or most
Speaker 1: especially a lack of deterrent pushback, they tend to behave
Speaker 1: even worse And that's you know, truly I think, having
Speaker 1: a transformative effect on South Korea. So it's a matter
Speaker 1: of great concern. But also sure because as you pointed
Speaker 1: out in so many of your outputs, books and shorter
Speaker 1: length products. Communists over there are working with communists here
Speaker 1: and pursuing with them wherever they can. This takedown of
Speaker 1: our country. I did want to turn, and we'll get
Speaker 1: into it in the final segment with you, to one
Speaker 1: other dimension of all of this, of course, and that
Speaker 1: is that it's not just the communists that are sort
Speaker 1: of inside our wire and working to bring about America's fall,
Speaker 1: as you put it, but they're partnered up with these
Speaker 1: folks I call Sharia supremacists, and that adds a whole
Speaker 1: another level of both complexity and danger to it, as
Speaker 1: we'll discuss here momentarily, because the Sharia guys have put
Speaker 1: into place in this country, a lot of it since
Speaker 1: nine to eleven, by the way, an entire critical infrastructure
Speaker 1: of jihad, which is increasingly manifest notably in places like Texas,
Speaker 1: but a lot of other places besides, and I want
Speaker 1: to get your thoughts on kind of well, among other things,
Speaker 1: the spiritual warfare dimension of all of this. You're a
Speaker 1: devout Christian, you are very clear eyed about what this
Speaker 1: means for our faiths as well as our freedoms. And
Speaker 1: we'll talk about that on the other side of this
Speaker 1: very short break. Stay tuned for much more with Cheryl Jumbley.
Speaker 1: Right after this, we're back and we're visiting for one
Speaker 1: more block with Cheryl Chumley. Wonderful journalist in the best
Speaker 1: sense of that word, a woman who has served her
Speaker 1: country in uniform, but is now serving our country at
Speaker 1: the Washington Times as the up ed editor for the
Speaker 1: online aspects of the Times. Cheryl, I know you've been
Speaker 1: thinking hard and warning relentlessly about but I think of
Speaker 1: a Sharia supremacism talk a little bit about your perspective
Speaker 1: on it as kind of a well, I think of
Speaker 1: it as a symptom really of the larger fight we're in,
Speaker 1: spiritual warfare.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and you're referencing the Red Green Alliance right, referencing
Speaker 5: basically how Islamis now are partnering with the far left
Speaker 5: in the Democrat Party, which is to say, pretty much
Speaker 5: the whole Democrat Party to undercut the Constitution. And what's
Speaker 5: happening here is the failure of Christians and those who
Speaker 5: know best about the battle of principalities that we wage
Speaker 5: every day of our lives. The failure of us all
Speaker 5: to speak up as strongly and as boldly as we
Speaker 5: should have these past few years, when it was just
Speaker 5: a warning. Well, the wolf is inside the door now.
Speaker 5: And as we were discussing earlier, Frank during the break,
Speaker 5: if you look at what's taking place in Texas, Texas
Speaker 5: for crying out loud, the red state of Texas, right
Speaker 5: where it's supposed to be the patriotic American flag waving
Speaker 5: citizens out there, Islamism is really taken root there. And
Speaker 5: if you look at the dangers of that, there's nothing
Speaker 5: about Schuria. There's nothing about the Muslim belief that is
Speaker 5: in line with constitutional individual freedoms in America. And so
Speaker 5: we talked about socialism and communism and the Democrat Party
Speaker 5: losing its moral compass in its political way. Well, the
Speaker 5: next threat is already here. We need to be talking
Speaker 5: more about the Islamist takeover of America.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and again the common aspects of these threats is striking.
Speaker 1: Even though you know, the end states that the communists
Speaker 1: on the one hand, of the Sharia's supremacists on the other,
Speaker 1: and on a third I guess actually I'm called the
Speaker 1: globalist elites that are also seeking a new world order
Speaker 1: in which they will run things. They've got you know,
Speaker 1: very different end states in mind, but they are all
Speaker 1: cognizant of the fact that we're in the way of
Speaker 1: the realization of their ambitions, and so they are all
Speaker 1: joining forces to a very worrying degree, as well as
Speaker 1: employing some of the same tactics. And one of the things,
Speaker 1: again coming back to the Christians in our country, some
Speaker 1: extraordinary number I've heard as many as thirty million of
Speaker 1: us are simply not voting as well as now, I'm
Speaker 1: afraid increasingly watching some very very worrying things like churches
Speaker 1: being burnt across our country, or being simply bought and
Speaker 1: turned into mosques or seminaries or what have you. In
Speaker 1: part of these jihatists, Cheryl talk a little bit about
Speaker 1: all of that as it relates to the point in
Speaker 1: your book about socialism. The Christians must rise or America
Speaker 1: will fall.
Speaker 5: Well, it goes back to the founding of this nation
Speaker 5: and the core concept of American exceptionalism, which is the
Speaker 5: idea that individual rights and liberties come from God and
Speaker 5: that governments are only put in place to preserve and
Speaker 5: protect the individual rights we all have at birth. And
Speaker 5: so who knows best about God and God given rights
Speaker 5: it's the Judeo Christian believers here in America. And if
Speaker 5: that group of society, if we don't stand strong for
Speaker 5: God given individual rights, it creates this void that government
Speaker 5: comes in and fills with their own little special brand
Speaker 5: of regulatory controls. And this is where we're at right now.
Speaker 5: It's a battle between individualism versus collectivism in all its
Speaker 5: many forms. And the way collectivism is playing out now
Speaker 5: you can see it through the Islamic Sharia type law
Speaker 5: comply and obey. You can see it through the Democrat
Speaker 5: Party and its socialist communist event comply and obey. And
Speaker 5: on the other side stand those who believe in freedoms
Speaker 5: granted from the Creator. And so this is where the
Speaker 5: spiritual angle comes in. We call it those who read
Speaker 5: the Bible, the battle principalities, those who believe in God
Speaker 5: versus the Satanic forces, but you can also call it
Speaker 5: individualism versus collectivism.
Speaker 1: Let me ask you about a specific application of what
Speaker 1: you've just said, because it's very very relevant to the moment,
Speaker 1: especially in the aftermath of the election by Democrats of
Speaker 1: Abdul Rahmund el Sayi as their nominee to become the
Speaker 1: next United States Senator from Michigan. He happens to be
Speaker 1: in the mold of Zoron Mamdani, the mayor of New York,
Speaker 1: as you know, both a communist.
Speaker 2: As well as a very.
Speaker 1: We're going to understand very aggressively Sharia supremacist character as well.
Speaker 1: And you know, we've recently done a video. I'm going
Speaker 1: to talk to you a little bit more momentarily off
Speaker 1: air about this campaign we call Save Texas, Save America.
Speaker 1: But one of the things that we're trying to do
Speaker 1: is provide information in a readily accessible form about various
Speaker 1: aspects of the Sharia threat and how they're manifesting themselves.
Speaker 1: It was just released a video yesterday about this phenomenon
Speaker 1: of tikia, which is not just condoned line but mandatory lying,
Speaker 1: you know, to advance the program of Sharia. And we've
Speaker 1: come up with a way of sort of characterizing the
Speaker 1: problem of having people who embrace that program, as you say,
Speaker 1: with toxic effect for our constitution and country, who nonetheless
Speaker 1: are prepared to take an oath of office to support
Speaker 1: and defend the constitution. We've come up with a meme
Speaker 1: for this, cheryl crossing their fingers as they're pledging that oath.
Speaker 1: What do you make of this problem that would seem
Speaker 1: to me to be disqualifying for Kenny Day say nothing
Speaker 1: of people intellect of office.
Speaker 5: Well, of course it would be disqualifying, but that's because
Speaker 5: you're coming at it from a patriotic, logical point of view.
Speaker 5: Right and the left is all about seeking power using
Speaker 5: whatever emotional tool they can.
Speaker 1: I have to leave it at that, my dear. I'm
Speaker 1: so sorry I've taken up more of the time that
Speaker 1: I meant to thank you for joining us. Come back
Speaker 1: soon if you would. You're right big ask for the
Speaker 1: rest of you to join us again.
Speaker 2: Next time. It's a lingo fourth and multiply.
Speaker 5: M m m m hm, m mmmmmmmm mm hmm