WEBVTT - SECURING AMERICA, WITH FRANK GAFFNEY, AUGUST 8TH, 2026 0:00:22.000 --> 0:00:24.919 Welcome to Securing America with me Frank Affney, the program 0:00:24.960 --> 0:00:28.680 that's a kind of owner's manual for protecting the country 0:00:28.720 --> 0:00:33.080 we love against all enemies foreign and domestic, to the 0:00:33.120 --> 0:00:36.520 glory of God and his Kingdom. We're going to start 0:00:36.560 --> 0:00:38.600 this program with what I consider to be one of 0:00:38.640 --> 0:00:41.760 the most important segments we do each week. Usually I'm 0:00:41.760 --> 0:00:47.080 accompanied by my friend Dide Logison, who is not with 0:00:47.200 --> 0:00:49.120 us today, but we're going to try to solder on 0:00:49.159 --> 0:00:53.520 as best we can talking about the very desperate plight 0:00:53.920 --> 0:00:58.320 of Christians being persecuted around the world. We're going to 0:00:58.320 --> 0:01:02.160 focus on a place that is right at the vortex 0:01:02.400 --> 0:01:06.680 of much of what is happening elsewhere for many of 0:01:06.720 --> 0:01:11.320 the same reasons, and that would be the nation of Nigeria, 0:01:11.840 --> 0:01:22.160 enormous and extremely wealthy and extremely well beset country beset 0:01:22.520 --> 0:01:29.199 specifically by jihadists that are seeking to destroy the roughly 0:01:29.240 --> 0:01:33.640 half of the population of that nation that are Christians. 0:01:34.040 --> 0:01:35.800 We're going to talk about it with a man who 0:01:35.959 --> 0:01:38.959 hails from Nigeria and who has been devoting much of 0:01:39.000 --> 0:01:42.400 his life both before he came to the United States 0:01:42.400 --> 0:01:47.280 and since to try to relieve the suffering of persecuted 0:01:47.360 --> 0:01:50.760 Christians there and more to the point, to address the 0:01:50.840 --> 0:01:54.640 root causes of it, and we've been very proud to 0:01:54.720 --> 0:02:01.600 collaborate with Stephen Anada in his various roles to that 0:02:01.960 --> 0:02:06.480 end as part of our Save the Persecuted Christians coalition 0:02:06.600 --> 0:02:10.079 of which Daily Laguson is the president and c oh 0:02:11.280 --> 0:02:14.960 We're so pleased to have you with us, Stephen. We 0:02:15.000 --> 0:02:18.280 have not talked in a while, and it's really urgently 0:02:18.480 --> 0:02:21.000 needed that we take stock of what is happening in 0:02:21.040 --> 0:02:27.960 your country of origin and what we are doing to 0:02:28.120 --> 0:02:30.560 help as a nation and what we need to be 0:02:30.800 --> 0:02:32.480 doing above and beyond that. 0:02:32.960 --> 0:02:33.920 I'm glad to have you with us. 0:02:33.960 --> 0:02:37.120 Welcome, Thank you, Frank. 0:02:37.720 --> 0:02:40.280 It's my pleasure and honored and privileged to be with 0:02:40.400 --> 0:02:45.080 you today. Yeah, the fact remains that Christians are being 0:02:45.200 --> 0:02:49.720 killed daily in Algeria and it has not stopped. And 0:02:50.120 --> 0:02:54.200 the problem has been one that there is a mis 0:02:54.680 --> 0:03:01.040 leveling of the problem because the Government of Nigeria has 0:03:01.080 --> 0:03:05.880 successfully deployed a lot of money to lobby Washington, d C. 0:03:07.120 --> 0:03:13.800 Government and that has really projected. Nigeria has been uh 0:03:14.320 --> 0:03:20.840 uh uh contested by the ISIS and Bokoharam, which is 0:03:20.880 --> 0:03:24.400 part of the problem But what people who have forgotten 0:03:24.520 --> 0:03:27.960 is are full and militants who are lithers, who are 0:03:28.200 --> 0:03:34.160 more lithard than all other terrorists. Organizations are protected by 0:03:34.760 --> 0:03:41.160 government agencies, religious leaders who actually want to protect full 0:03:41.200 --> 0:03:44.560 and in military from being exposed. But they are the 0:03:44.680 --> 0:03:51.120 warm killing Christians taking over farmlands, taken over territories in 0:03:51.160 --> 0:03:54.600 the Middle bed and the northeastern part of Nigeria and 0:03:54.640 --> 0:03:56.080 even across this. 0:03:56.280 --> 0:04:01.160 Aha, I want to just because to that point, because 0:04:02.840 --> 0:04:05.800 you now run an organization, a new organization called the 0:04:05.800 --> 0:04:09.160 International Committee on Nigeria and the Sahel. This would be 0:04:09.200 --> 0:04:15.040 the surrounding nations of Nigeria that have also been afflicted 0:04:15.520 --> 0:04:23.440 to varying degrees by these nomadic Fulani tribesmen. They have 0:04:23.600 --> 0:04:27.039 been able to roam in and out of Nigeria pretty 0:04:27.080 --> 0:04:30.760 much with impunity. Tell us about the extent to which 0:04:31.000 --> 0:04:36.840 the government of Nigeria is not only well, shall we say, 0:04:37.880 --> 0:04:43.719 abiding what they're doing, but actually is enabling it. And 0:04:44.440 --> 0:04:47.000 what does that have to do with the composition of 0:04:47.080 --> 0:04:50.560 the Nigerian government itself, sir, Well. 0:04:50.520 --> 0:04:53.920 Now, if you begin to look at narrative emanating from 0:04:53.960 --> 0:04:59.560 Nderia government, well, for example, if full animilitant attacks and 0:04:59.760 --> 0:05:02.640 the hell. Then the the Sultan of Sokoto will come 0:05:02.680 --> 0:05:05.120 and speak on their behalf and you begin to see 0:05:05.160 --> 0:05:09.200 even bested government when his own people were killed by 0:05:09.200 --> 0:05:13.080 full and amilitant, he came in defense of lanimilitant. Then 0:05:13.120 --> 0:05:16.080 when you talk about Nigeria border which is poor us, 0:05:16.320 --> 0:05:21.520 Nagera government allows this full animilitant to roam or the 0:05:21.560 --> 0:05:27.160 Sahelian region without any inhibition and that means the government 0:05:27.240 --> 0:05:31.200 territory which is north eastern Nigeria and the Sahelian Region 0:05:31.480 --> 0:05:36.560 which comprise of about sixteen countries, is left on government. 0:05:36.600 --> 0:05:38.920 And this from human. 0:05:38.720 --> 0:05:43.960 Trafficking to sexual slavery, to narcotic trafficking and all the 0:05:44.080 --> 0:05:49.839 rest come together. And because it is now structurally intertwined 0:05:50.160 --> 0:05:55.039 with this transnational organized crime, which Nagera government is not 0:05:55.160 --> 0:06:00.240 doing anything because it is deliberate adaptive strategy that allows 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:03.520 is our groups to fund operations and to take over land. 0:06:03.800 --> 0:06:06.320 So Nageria government allows them to roam. 0:06:06.800 --> 0:06:12.159 So you have religious leader especially this sortan promoting I'm 0:06:12.200 --> 0:06:16.599 defending and also asking Nadia government not to name them 0:06:16.960 --> 0:06:23.719 because naming Fulani as a terrorist organization means terrorism. Nagia 0:06:23.720 --> 0:06:26.800 will be defeated and also in South South Africa. 0:06:29.360 --> 0:06:31.560 One point that I just wanted to clarify. It's my 0:06:31.720 --> 0:06:35.600 understanding that part of what's going on in terms of 0:06:35.640 --> 0:06:39.279 the at best the blind eye that the government of 0:06:39.360 --> 0:06:44.280 Nigeria is turning towards these militants of jihadas I would 0:06:44.279 --> 0:06:51.080 call them, is that it's largely comprised of Fulani ethnic 0:06:51.640 --> 0:06:53.760 tribesmen as well. Is that correct sir? 0:06:54.680 --> 0:06:58.440 Yes, it's people like we have to name. 0:06:59.240 --> 0:07:04.400 They recoup Preed which is full animilitant because like I said, 0:07:04.400 --> 0:07:05.239 they are more Litha. 0:07:05.360 --> 0:07:06.760 We are on ground and they. 0:07:06.600 --> 0:07:12.520 Have taken territories across Plateau, benuet Taraba, Adamawa just mentioned 0:07:12.880 --> 0:07:14.040 Kaduna they keep. 0:07:14.480 --> 0:07:15.920 So the truth is. 0:07:15.920 --> 0:07:19.440 There, of course important states in Nigeria. Rah. 0:07:19.480 --> 0:07:21.880 If we refuse to name then. 0:07:24.800 --> 0:07:28.400 And we don't we misdorganize the problem, then we are 0:07:28.400 --> 0:07:32.240 not going to have solutions to Nigeria problem. One that 0:07:32.720 --> 0:07:37.400 the most lith group terrorist group in Nigeria is actually 0:07:37.480 --> 0:07:42.000 full animilitant, So it is Boko arm I think it's 0:07:42.160 --> 0:07:45.800 just not as leather as full animilitant. 0:07:46.120 --> 0:07:50.680 That's amazing. Everything we've heard about Bokahamas that it's pretty horrific. 0:07:50.720 --> 0:07:54.880 So that sets the bar very high. And as you're 0:07:54.920 --> 0:08:02.120 looking at the situation in Nigeria, President Don Trump has 0:08:02.280 --> 0:08:07.920 on two different occasions sent US military forces into attack 0:08:09.280 --> 0:08:19.800 people in the hope of preventing further slaughter of Christians there. Unfortunately, 0:08:19.800 --> 0:08:23.160 the slaughter continues. Does that have something to do with 0:08:23.360 --> 0:08:27.720 the targeting of American military powers. 0:08:28.120 --> 0:08:35.800 Yeah, it's very unfortunate because if US military with Nigeria 0:08:35.880 --> 0:08:40.760 military just attack one single entity and then they refuse 0:08:40.880 --> 0:08:44.600 to attack the rest, it means the vulnerable community are 0:08:44.640 --> 0:08:48.800 in trouble. And it's like a lot of people briefing 0:08:48.920 --> 0:08:54.479 President Trump, which is a good intention to help Nigeria Christians, 0:08:55.080 --> 0:08:57.480 is not enough. And the reason why it is not 0:08:57.720 --> 0:09:00.560 enough one is that we have a lot of people 0:09:01.920 --> 0:09:05.480 misadvising President Trump about the real issue in Nigeria. 0:09:05.559 --> 0:09:05.760 One. 0:09:06.280 --> 0:09:09.160 He has to understand that full and in militant is 0:09:09.200 --> 0:09:13.480 actually the hardra headed monster that needs to be defeated 0:09:13.880 --> 0:09:18.120 and doing that it means we are destroying the Islamic Caliphate, 0:09:18.280 --> 0:09:22.440 Islamic conscendants in Nigeria and the Sub So Africa. So 0:09:22.720 --> 0:09:26.760 I think everybody that is advising President Trump or Nigeria 0:09:26.960 --> 0:09:31.199 has been deceived by Nigeria government has been deceived by 0:09:31.240 --> 0:09:36.199 a lot of money bags who profit from terrorism, and 0:09:36.280 --> 0:09:38.439 I can tell you, yes. 0:09:39.440 --> 0:09:41.200 We have to take a short break. I want you 0:09:41.240 --> 0:09:42.840 to tell me on the other side of that, if 0:09:42.880 --> 0:09:46.559 you would. We're talking with Steven and Nada of the 0:09:46.559 --> 0:09:50.680 International Committee on Nigeria and the Sahel about what's going 0:09:50.720 --> 0:09:53.200 on in that country and we're going to talk about 0:09:53.200 --> 0:09:54.520 next what we have to do about it. 0:09:54.840 --> 0:09:55.439 Right after this. 0:10:16.600 --> 0:10:20.160 Come back. We are speaking with Stephen Andada, a freedom 0:10:20.240 --> 0:10:24.199 fighter from Nigeria who has devoted much of his life 0:10:24.240 --> 0:10:29.200 to trying to spare the roughly half of the two 0:10:29.280 --> 0:10:35.200 hundred million or so Nigerians in their population from the 0:10:35.200 --> 0:10:42.120 predations of jihadists. There are several different entities that are 0:10:43.040 --> 0:10:49.880 mounting attacks on the Christians, but according to Stephen, the 0:10:49.920 --> 0:10:53.680 worst of the bunch is a group called the Fulani 0:10:54.840 --> 0:11:01.479 tribesmen and militants who are now operating with impunity in Nigeria, 0:11:02.240 --> 0:11:07.240 partly because the Fulanis in the government of Nigeria are 0:11:07.360 --> 0:11:11.400 supporting them and enabling even the attacks that they're engaged 0:11:11.440 --> 0:11:14.920 in at the moment. So, Stephen, you were telling us 0:11:14.920 --> 0:11:19.000 a little bit about uh the sort of complexion of 0:11:19.040 --> 0:11:22.080 what President Trump is being told about all of this. 0:11:22.880 --> 0:11:25.439 He clearly wants to help save for secured Christians. I 0:11:25.440 --> 0:11:29.520 think he actually said recently that the mission was accomplished 0:11:30.400 --> 0:11:34.520 of doing that. And yet what you're describing as the 0:11:34.520 --> 0:11:41.960 worst of the people viciously attacking Christians, namely the Fulani, 0:11:42.160 --> 0:11:47.199 are very much still in business and supported by the government. 0:11:47.280 --> 0:11:50.040 Is that right, Yes, sir. 0:11:51.679 --> 0:11:55.680 If you are going to fight is sogainst it's against 0:11:55.679 --> 0:11:58.640 the and tera Rizi in Nigeria. 0:11:58.880 --> 0:12:02.240 Militant is the cost group to be at rest. 0:12:02.920 --> 0:12:06.560 And one because over the years they've denied that they 0:12:06.559 --> 0:12:10.400 are not killing. Over the years, they have taken over 0:12:10.559 --> 0:12:15.679 territories and lands. And if you are attacking Boko around 0:12:15.720 --> 0:12:19.200 who actually are in the northeastern zone and Fulanny are 0:12:19.240 --> 0:12:23.199 almost everywhere. There is no state in Anjia that Fulany 0:12:23.960 --> 0:12:28.720 militants have not attacked. They've killed, they've plundered, and I 0:12:28.760 --> 0:12:31.520 can tell you even in the south they are occupying 0:12:31.640 --> 0:12:36.000 the forests territories and they are into illegal mining to 0:12:36.280 --> 0:12:42.320 fund their operations. They are in cahood with China illegal 0:12:42.440 --> 0:12:47.280 miners and that gives them money to fund land grabbing 0:12:47.800 --> 0:12:53.760 and territorial expansion and anytime. The idea they established Islamic 0:12:53.960 --> 0:12:58.400 caliphate to begin to rule their place with Islamic laws, 0:12:58.600 --> 0:13:02.800 and the lookers, they don't have access to their farmland, 0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:07.000 to their fishing pond, and the lands are decided. 0:13:07.400 --> 0:13:12.400 Why full any militant establish mosque shrines. 0:13:12.480 --> 0:13:17.320 To compare every living human in that territory to become 0:13:17.360 --> 0:13:21.960 a Muslim. And they established Shariah and that is what 0:13:22.400 --> 0:13:26.319 they believe in, that everybody must become a Christian and 0:13:26.559 --> 0:13:30.600 ruled by Sharia law. And that is actually the concept 0:13:30.640 --> 0:13:33.080 of Islamic ideology globally. 0:13:33.640 --> 0:13:35.280 Anywhere they are and they are. 0:13:35.200 --> 0:13:40.200 Able to take political power, they want to establish Sharia 0:13:40.320 --> 0:13:43.640 law that every person was a bad buy. 0:13:44.400 --> 0:13:48.920 Yeah, as you know, we are very actively trying to 0:13:48.960 --> 0:13:52.720 resist that here in the United States. Could you just 0:13:52.760 --> 0:13:57.040 describe a little bit what the implications are if the 0:13:57.040 --> 0:14:04.839 feloneys are allowed to continue unchecked ergy hard against Christians 0:14:05.000 --> 0:14:11.480 in Nigeria. What are the implications for you know, Europe, 0:14:12.280 --> 0:14:16.160 other parts of Africa, of course, but as far you 0:14:16.200 --> 0:14:18.880 know from it all, as even the United States itself. 0:14:20.560 --> 0:14:21.360 Thank you, Frank. 0:14:22.520 --> 0:14:27.600 The This is just the obvious reason why President Trump 0:14:28.000 --> 0:14:34.440 must refocus his attention on Nigeria. Why is because Nigeria 0:14:34.600 --> 0:14:39.280 is is a population of over two hundred and forty million. 0:14:40.040 --> 0:14:44.520 Imagine the full and in militant over run overtake the 0:14:44.600 --> 0:14:49.800 government Iran will be a child play and once America 0:14:49.840 --> 0:14:51.680 will have a lot even not Europe. 0:14:51.680 --> 0:14:54.360 Europe is already believeed Europe is weak. 0:14:55.040 --> 0:14:59.720 But what will happen if you allow full and in 0:14:59.760 --> 0:15:02.480 Mili it turned to establish to take over of a 0:15:02.560 --> 0:15:06.720 run Nadia and Nadia include, then you have Iran two 0:15:06.760 --> 0:15:09.880 point two. And what that means is that America will 0:15:09.920 --> 0:15:14.440 have another tater of war because the intention finally is 0:15:14.520 --> 0:15:18.400 to use that population and resources to make sure the 0:15:18.480 --> 0:15:21.760 Whig war in American homeland and that is going to 0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:26.200 that is like ten ten years away from maturing. 0:15:27.240 --> 0:15:30.240 Yeah, it's a It's a point that we try to 0:15:30.280 --> 0:15:35.560 make practically daily, Steven, And you understand so well. We're 0:15:35.600 --> 0:15:40.280 dealing with a global Islamic movement. The Muslim Brotherhood is 0:15:40.480 --> 0:15:42.920 kind of the vanguard of it on the Sunni side. 0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:46.120 You've got the Iranians on the Shia side. But what 0:15:46.160 --> 0:15:53.240 you're describing is that by creating a caliphate in Nigeria, 0:15:53.920 --> 0:15:58.320 pulling in large numbers of jihadists from around the world 0:15:58.800 --> 0:16:03.520 and then dominating all of Nigeria, driving out the Christians 0:16:03.560 --> 0:16:07.200 or killing them, taking their land and so on. We 0:16:07.360 --> 0:16:13.080 could well find a diaspora unlike anything we've seen so far, 0:16:13.240 --> 0:16:17.000 with people, you know, trying desperately to get to Europe 0:16:17.040 --> 0:16:20.800 and ultimately to many Canada and the United States as well. 0:16:20.880 --> 0:16:21.360 Is that right? 0:16:22.680 --> 0:16:31.120 Yes, don't forget that Nigerians are very educated, most Nigerians 0:16:31.120 --> 0:16:33.120 and the truth of the matter is that they I 0:16:33.240 --> 0:16:35.240 employ almost everywhere in the world. 0:16:35.600 --> 0:16:37.440 So if Nageria implude. 0:16:37.080 --> 0:16:41.040 Then and then there will be chain migration because you 0:16:41.080 --> 0:16:44.080 want to bring your family. And what that LEAs is 0:16:44.080 --> 0:16:48.520 that there will be a lot of humanitarian crisis in Canada, 0:16:48.680 --> 0:16:50.040 in the US, in Europe. 0:16:50.400 --> 0:16:51.520 And what that LEAs is that. 0:16:51.640 --> 0:16:56.560 They import some will import Islamic geology to their host nation. 0:16:57.200 --> 0:16:59.720 And what that is is that the UVA went and 0:16:59.760 --> 0:17:02.480 then you will not want to assimilate into the culture 0:17:02.600 --> 0:17:06.080 of their host nations. I'm not talking about people who 0:17:06.119 --> 0:17:09.240 are saying I'm not talking about Christians, I'm not talking 0:17:09.280 --> 0:17:12.359 about people who are of no faith, who don't believe 0:17:12.400 --> 0:17:16.040 in terrorism. But I'm talking through that infiltration, you will 0:17:16.080 --> 0:17:20.160 see a lot of people sneaking into the United States, 0:17:20.200 --> 0:17:23.080 into Canada. And then when you have when you have 0:17:23.160 --> 0:17:26.080 poor US border and you have a situation where people 0:17:26.119 --> 0:17:30.879 can sneak in into the forced system, the intention is 0:17:30.920 --> 0:17:35.600 to stay there and make sure what in communities in America, 0:17:35.680 --> 0:17:39.679 for example, that are clamoring to establish area, what that 0:17:39.800 --> 0:17:42.400 misses sort people who find themselves there and they take 0:17:42.400 --> 0:17:46.080 over and gradually they will around the system, and then 0:17:46.080 --> 0:17:49.800 they will get themselves elected into political offices. And once 0:17:49.840 --> 0:17:52.240 that is done, they will begin to legislate, and they 0:17:52.280 --> 0:17:52.880 will begin. 0:17:52.760 --> 0:17:55.000 To to get rid of. 0:17:56.760 --> 0:17:59.560 Democratic ketos and values, and then they will begin to 0:17:59.840 --> 0:18:02.240 let this leads Shariah in the constitution. 0:18:02.760 --> 0:18:06.920 That is a phenomenon called one man, one vote, one time. 0:18:07.200 --> 0:18:13.080 You'll get this, you know, enslavement basically that companies Sharia 0:18:13.560 --> 0:18:17.720 with respect to so called unbelievers. So, Steven, we've got 0:18:17.760 --> 0:18:19.840 about a minute and a half left, just very quickly, 0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:24.240 what are your recommendations to the Trump administration from the 0:18:24.280 --> 0:18:27.920 International Committee on Nigeria and the sohal Yeah, I. 0:18:27.920 --> 0:18:35.400 Will first of all, for protecting America from being infiltrated 0:18:35.480 --> 0:18:40.879 and also from future attack. President Trump should begin to 0:18:41.000 --> 0:18:44.320 listen to voice of reasons like yours and many others 0:18:44.359 --> 0:18:48.080 who understand these issues, so that you will be appropriately 0:18:48.960 --> 0:18:53.200 advised about the issues on grand one that full and 0:18:53.440 --> 0:18:58.639 militant actually one of the media problems of terrorists and 0:18:58.680 --> 0:19:02.280 insurgency a tivty. He's in Nigerian and desireed. So they 0:19:02.280 --> 0:19:07.120 will begin to look at foreign policies the mainstream into 0:19:07.480 --> 0:19:11.119 what is happening and who are the actors, especially the 0:19:11.160 --> 0:19:17.119 state actors who found all who enable these terrorries says 0:19:17.240 --> 0:19:20.240 to fester. So for me, I think there should be 0:19:21.080 --> 0:19:26.359 there should be a new level of briefing President Trump 0:19:26.560 --> 0:19:29.359 on the real issue on grant so that he will 0:19:29.400 --> 0:19:34.600 not leave. He will not leave his office and then 0:19:34.680 --> 0:19:37.800 people will be killed in millions because yeah, waiting for 0:19:37.880 --> 0:19:38.159 him to. 0:19:38.200 --> 0:19:41.000 Leave even sooner than when he leaves office. I'm afraid 0:19:41.840 --> 0:19:43.639 even we are hard out of time. I'm sorry we 0:19:43.720 --> 0:19:45.719 have to let you go. Thank you for this update. 0:19:45.840 --> 0:19:47.800 I hope you'll keep coming back to us with more. 0:19:47.880 --> 0:19:52.160 We are anxious to try, no kidding to say, persecuted 0:19:52.240 --> 0:19:55.240 Christians and Nigeria and around the world. God bless you, 0:19:55.280 --> 0:19:57.720 my friend, a state and Fox. We will be right 0:19:57.760 --> 0:20:21.560 back with much more. Welcome back and a very special 0:20:21.560 --> 0:20:25.199 welcome to a woman that I have admired greatly and 0:20:25.800 --> 0:20:28.639 had some wonderful conversations with over the years, but not 0:20:28.800 --> 0:20:34.000 in altogether too long. The name is Cheryl Chumley, and 0:20:34.119 --> 0:20:36.800 I've just discovered doing a little bit of long overdue 0:20:36.800 --> 0:20:41.960 background that she has, among other things in her story career, 0:20:42.400 --> 0:20:45.480 a time in the United States military. So I thought 0:20:45.520 --> 0:20:48.600 I might get a reaction from her to one of 0:20:48.640 --> 0:20:52.560 the stories that were following, and that I'm a bit 0:20:52.600 --> 0:20:55.840 concerned about. I must say, let me just give you 0:20:55.840 --> 0:20:57.760 a little bit of context for all of this with 0:20:57.880 --> 0:21:02.600 a commentary on my own. In the unrestricted warfare, the 0:21:02.680 --> 0:21:06.960 Chinese Communist Party has long waged against the United States. 0:21:07.720 --> 0:21:11.000 One of its most effective lines of attack has involved 0:21:11.080 --> 0:21:16.880 the weaponization of the CCP's so called old friends in America. 0:21:17.480 --> 0:21:21.520 Intrepid investigative journalist Natalie Winners revealed this week that since 0:21:21.680 --> 0:21:27.280 two thousand and eight, China's influence operations and intelligence services 0:21:27.320 --> 0:21:31.840 have cultivated relationships with former members of the Joint chiefs 0:21:31.880 --> 0:21:38.160 of Staff and combatant commanders. They discuss sensitive and high 0:21:38.280 --> 0:21:43.600 risk subjects, including Taiwan, the South China Sea, and missile defense. 0:21:44.280 --> 0:21:47.560 A driving force behind this Sanya initiative is former Joint 0:21:47.640 --> 0:21:51.679 Chiefs Vice Chairman Bill Owens, who actually went to work 0:21:52.040 --> 0:21:57.320 for the CCP's notorious telecommunications and espionage company, Huawei, and 0:21:57.400 --> 0:22:00.880 even penned an article urging that we treat China as 0:22:01.880 --> 0:22:05.919 a friend, there must be penalties for being an old 0:22:06.040 --> 0:22:11.400 friend of our mortal enemy, the Chinese Communist Party. Those 0:22:11.400 --> 0:22:12.840 are some of my thoughts. For more of them, follow 0:22:12.880 --> 0:22:15.680 me at x at Frank Gaffney and also at usfuture 0:22:15.720 --> 0:22:18.480 dot org, the website of the Institute for the American Future, 0:22:18.480 --> 0:22:20.680 which makes this program possible. I hope you will too, 0:22:22.000 --> 0:22:26.879 generously donating if you can at usfuture dot org. Cheryl, 0:22:27.080 --> 0:22:29.560 it's good to have you back. By apologies for this 0:22:29.680 --> 0:22:34.719 having been so long delayed, a return to securing America, 0:22:34.760 --> 0:22:36.560 but really delighted to have you with us. 0:22:36.840 --> 0:22:39.080 Always great to be with you, Frank, thank you. 0:22:39.640 --> 0:22:39.960 Thank you. 0:22:40.320 --> 0:22:44.320 Let me begin, Cheryl by saying that you are, of course, 0:22:44.760 --> 0:22:49.720 at the moment, the online opinion editor of the Washington Times. 0:22:50.359 --> 0:22:55.639 You have a very impressive podcast, Bold and Blood. You 0:22:55.880 --> 0:22:59.280 have numerous books to your credit, including a couple will 0:22:59.480 --> 0:23:03.879 talk about in the course of the program. Socialists Don't 0:23:03.920 --> 0:23:09.280 Sleep for example, if Christians don't rise, America will fall. 0:23:09.320 --> 0:23:13.600 As the subtitle, let's talk a little bit about the 0:23:13.720 --> 0:23:18.639 Chinese Communist Party and their friends, old friends among our 0:23:18.720 --> 0:23:22.359 captured elites as they called them, but also they're friends 0:23:22.400 --> 0:23:25.760 like democratic socialists. You felt your finger on the pulse 0:23:25.800 --> 0:23:27.840 of what's happening in all of these spaces. Give us 0:23:27.840 --> 0:23:28.880 your thoughts about. 0:23:29.600 --> 0:23:33.160 And see how we can ever consider China a friends. 0:23:33.200 --> 0:23:36.199 And I think we made this mistake back in the 0:23:36.320 --> 0:23:41.960 nineteen eighties. Even Newt Gingrich had an idea that if 0:23:42.000 --> 0:23:45.760 we just reach out to China, welcome them into the 0:23:45.800 --> 0:23:49.359 global economy, that they will naturally turn into a free 0:23:49.440 --> 0:23:53.720 market and they would become biological extension, they would become 0:23:53.840 --> 0:23:57.160 free they would adopt more Western ways. Well, it backfired, 0:23:57.240 --> 0:24:00.639 and all China did was steal our technology, you steal 0:24:00.640 --> 0:24:05.679 our ideas, and insert themselves with an even larger footprint 0:24:05.800 --> 0:24:11.600 into America's politics and culture. So it's just tried already. 0:24:12.080 --> 0:24:14.600 You know, to be friends with China. You can't be 0:24:14.720 --> 0:24:17.720 friends with communists. 0:24:17.040 --> 0:24:22.680 Right, especially since they're pretty clear about seeking the destruction 0:24:22.760 --> 0:24:27.640 of our country. Samuel Johnson said this about second marriages. 0:24:27.680 --> 0:24:30.240 It's the triumph of hope over experience to think that 0:24:30.640 --> 0:24:34.280 you know, somehow this will work out now. And I'd 0:24:34.359 --> 0:24:37.960 like to think that these general officers are wiser as 0:24:38.000 --> 0:24:42.399 a result of these decades of conversations. But on the 0:24:42.440 --> 0:24:45.720 other hand, it does seem, sheriln you sort of alluded 0:24:45.720 --> 0:24:50.320 to it there, that that penetration of our society often 0:24:50.400 --> 0:24:55.840 translates into people's compromise and in some cases even becoming 0:24:56.119 --> 0:25:00.480 sort of as with Bill Owens, I think engine for 0:25:01.119 --> 0:25:07.760 propagating the well, the disinformation, the subversion of these enemies. 0:25:09.359 --> 0:25:13.119 It's called normalizing evil, right, which is something when you 0:25:13.160 --> 0:25:17.639 play the long term game like China does, like Islamist do, 0:25:18.359 --> 0:25:21.320 which is sort of related to this sort of injection 0:25:21.600 --> 0:25:27.000 of dangerous entities into America's culture and politics. When you 0:25:27.040 --> 0:25:30.520 play the long game, you start looking at the generations, 0:25:30.920 --> 0:25:33.560 You start looking at the youth of America and how 0:25:33.600 --> 0:25:37.440 you can sort of numb the youth to the dangers 0:25:37.480 --> 0:25:40.720 of communism. And this is where we're at now. Frank, 0:25:40.760 --> 0:25:42.760 you see it as well as I do. I'm sure 0:25:42.960 --> 0:25:45.560 most of your watchers and listeners do as well. That 0:25:46.160 --> 0:25:50.199 you know, twenty years ago, socialism communism used to be 0:25:50.240 --> 0:25:54.240 dirty words in America. Now we have open socialists being 0:25:54.359 --> 0:25:58.400 cheered in their political runs in winning and the next 0:25:58.400 --> 0:26:01.520 step is just to have open common So China is 0:26:01.680 --> 0:26:05.679 very good at injecting itself into America's culture, which is 0:26:05.720 --> 0:26:07.959 where the hearts and minds change. 0:26:10.640 --> 0:26:14.000 On that point, you know, there's an effort at the 0:26:14.040 --> 0:26:22.480 moment in this sort of penetration and well, I call 0:26:22.520 --> 0:26:29.520 it frog boiling that there's a patina of respectability applied 0:26:29.560 --> 0:26:34.720 to socialism by calling it democratic socialism. Is there a 0:26:34.800 --> 0:26:39.840 dimes worth of difference between democratic socialists and other garden 0:26:39.920 --> 0:26:43.760 variety socialists and for that matter, between socialists and communists. 0:26:44.000 --> 0:26:47.240 Sure no, And there are a couple different ways to 0:26:47.320 --> 0:26:50.720 answer that. First off, if you look at the platforms, 0:26:50.760 --> 0:26:54.200 if you look at the party platforms that are put 0:26:54.240 --> 0:26:58.960 out on their own websites of socialists and Democrat socialists 0:26:59.200 --> 0:27:03.120 very little different. You can actually expand that and look 0:27:03.160 --> 0:27:07.199 at the platforms of socialists Democrat socialists, which is a movement, 0:27:07.240 --> 0:27:09.800 a campaign, not a political party, but they still have 0:27:09.880 --> 0:27:14.560 an agenda. Also, look at communists and really look at progressives, 0:27:14.640 --> 0:27:19.280 right because way back when socialists was still a dirty word, 0:27:19.359 --> 0:27:22.760 we had the progressives making their mark on Congress, the 0:27:22.800 --> 0:27:27.520 Progressive Caucus. We had progressives running for office under the 0:27:27.560 --> 0:27:32.040 Democrat umbrella, but you look at all their own stated 0:27:32.119 --> 0:27:36.680 goals and visions for America, and they're identical. The Democrat 0:27:36.720 --> 0:27:41.520 Party of today is basically in lockstep with what Marxism 0:27:41.720 --> 0:27:45.479 puts forth and what the Communist Party USA puts forth. 0:27:46.760 --> 0:27:50.199 That's a pretty powerful indictment. And I'm old enough to remember. 0:27:51.840 --> 0:27:54.680 I'm old enough to remember when they they had to 0:27:54.800 --> 0:27:58.760 use the term progressive because liberal had become a dirty 0:27:58.760 --> 0:28:02.960 word when it was it was moved to the far 0:28:03.040 --> 0:28:09.679 left by George McGovern and people like him. To just 0:28:10.160 --> 0:28:13.960 tie this back into the military, though, you know, you 0:28:15.080 --> 0:28:19.080 served both in the Army and the Air Guard, as 0:28:19.080 --> 0:28:25.359 I recall, does it discomfort you that you would see, 0:28:26.200 --> 0:28:28.240 you know, former members, as I said, of the Joint 0:28:28.280 --> 0:28:35.720 chiefs of Staff and combatant commanders participating in what is 0:28:35.960 --> 0:28:40.600 fairly transparently this isn't entirely new news. I think Natalie's 0:28:40.640 --> 0:28:43.520 pulled it together in a compelling way. But this has 0:28:43.560 --> 0:28:46.560 been going on, you know, for the better part of 0:28:46.600 --> 0:28:51.080 two decades. These are people who would you would have thought, 0:28:51.440 --> 0:28:55.040 would know better than to be consorting with groups that 0:28:55.080 --> 0:28:58.200 are tied not only to the United Front of the 0:28:58.280 --> 0:29:02.000 Chinese Communist Party, which is no runs its influence operations, 0:29:02.000 --> 0:29:08.880 but actually organizations that are tied to Chinese intelligence as well. Well. 0:29:08.920 --> 0:29:11.800 The short answer is yes, of course, it concerns me, 0:29:12.120 --> 0:29:15.160