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Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Zarn Elizabeth, how are you? I'm doing Wow? How about you?

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Speaker 2: How are you doing good?

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Speaker 3: I'm good.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. You look all bushy tail.

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Speaker 3: I do. I'm very bushy tailed. Do you want to

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Speaker 3: know what's ridiculous?

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Speaker 2: I do want to know it's ridiculous. But I got

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Speaker 2: something for you that's ridiculous before we get there, Elizabeth, Okay,

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Speaker 2: this one involves a triangle of intensity, Yoko Ono, Salvador

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Speaker 2: dah Lee, and John Lennon. Oh right, So John Lennon

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Speaker 2: and Yoko they were on their honeymoon in sixty nine

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Speaker 2: and they met Salvador dah Lee in Paris and they

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Speaker 2: had lunch with him at the Hotel Maurice, all right,

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Speaker 2: and so they were all friendly. They hit it off.

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Speaker 2: They're like, oh, that's cool, right, and uh, you know,

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Speaker 2: it was such like a kismet connection that Salvador Dali

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Speaker 2: used to keep a photograph of John Lennon in his

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Speaker 2: closet hanging on a coat hanger. Okay, don't ask me why. Anyway,

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Speaker 2: The point that I wanted to tell you what that is.

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Speaker 2: The ridiculous part is that after John Lennon passed away,

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Speaker 2: Yoko still stayed, you know, somewhat friendly with Salvador Dali,

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Speaker 2: and she asked him like, hey, I really would like

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Speaker 2: to get hair from your mustache. And he's like what,

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Speaker 2: He's like, I just really want it, so Dolly, He's like,

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Speaker 2: I don't know. She seems kind of like a witch.

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Speaker 2: Maybe she's gonna do some footy stuff on me. So

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Speaker 2: he didn't want to send one of his actual hairs

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Speaker 2: because he was worried about her doing like some magic

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Speaker 2: black magic on him. So he's like, how do I

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Speaker 2: avoid the occult? I know, I'll just send her a

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Speaker 2: blade of grass. So he had an assistant go out

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Speaker 2: and pick a blade of grass and like age it

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Speaker 2: and dry it. And then she's like yeah, because she

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Speaker 2: had promised him ten thousand dollars for one of his

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Speaker 2: like mustache hairs, and so he sent her a blade

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Speaker 2: of grass in exchange for ten thousand dollars. And there

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Speaker 2: you go, right, Salvador Dolly, Yoko Ono the ten thousand

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Speaker 2: dollars blade of grass.

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Speaker 3: I love it. That is ridiculous, right, I thought, So,

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Speaker 3: do you want to know what else is ridiculous?

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Speaker 2: Please? I would love to.

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Speaker 3: Stealing an album before it even comes out. Oh this

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Speaker 3: is ridiculous Crime, a podcast about absurd and outrageous capers,

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Speaker 3: ices and cons. It's always ninety nine percent murder free

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Speaker 3: and one hundred percent ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: No you heard that.

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Speaker 3: Master tapes master recordings. These are the original, first generation,

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Speaker 3: highest quality recordings of a piece of music.

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Speaker 2: So like old school reel to real.

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Speaker 3: Yes, and it's the final version, the one that includes

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Speaker 3: all the edits and the mixing, and masters have the

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Speaker 3: purest sound because that's like the originator. And it's from

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Speaker 3: these tapes that all copies are made.

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Speaker 2: So they're coming out of the board once they have

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Speaker 2: it all like mastered. They record a tape, yeah, and

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Speaker 2: then they're like okay in print CDs or whatever else

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Speaker 2: you write from all.

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Speaker 3: The broadcast copies, the safety copies, the production masters. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So they're really valuable, I bet. And most of the

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Speaker 3: time they're kept in vaults because actual vaults. For ages,

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Speaker 3: they were like real, like you said, real, real analog tape.

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Speaker 3: Now there's like digital pro tool sessions and stuff, but

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Speaker 3: they put them on a drive. It's locked up, it's tangible.

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Speaker 3: You know what's crazy is that owning the masters grants

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Speaker 3: rights and control over the use of the music and

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Speaker 3: most importantly the revenue.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like why Michael Jackson bought the Beatles.

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Speaker 3: Masters, right, And we know what happens when something is valuable,

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Speaker 3: it's pople people want to deal it. So I think

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Speaker 3: one of the most famous cases of this happened in

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Speaker 3: nineteen eighty six.

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Speaker 2: Nineteen eighty six, okay.

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Speaker 3: There was this band they were getting ready to release

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Speaker 3: like a highly anticipated first album, okay, and what's wild

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Speaker 3: and sort of unbelievable and unprecedented is that a rival

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Speaker 3: band stole the Masters and we're going to release the

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Speaker 3: album as their own. Wait what Yeah, it's insane. So

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Speaker 3: the original band they get this tip about the tapes,

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Speaker 3: and so they they're told they go to this mansion

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Speaker 3: and you can get the tapes back. So they go,

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Speaker 3: but all they find there is a note.

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Speaker 2: So wait, like the whole band, like they get an event.

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Speaker 3: Band, Yeah, okay, and it says on the note for

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Speaker 3: really good tunes, the very best yet check out the

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Speaker 3: storehouse and talk to Chubbette and they're like, what is

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Speaker 3: even happening right now? And so the Storehouse, right, it's

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Speaker 3: like this local kind of dive bar music venue.

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Speaker 2: I love. They're getting like a rhyming note, and so.

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Speaker 3: They go there. They're like, where's Chubbette. Yeah, and they

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Speaker 3: are all these gnarly biker dudes there and they're like no,

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Speaker 3: They're like, Chubette's not a person. That's the soda machine.

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Speaker 3: What Yeah, and like it's a red herring, right, And

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Speaker 3: so they all look at the machine. Another note, folks,

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Speaker 3: we got ourselves a good old fashioned scavenger hunt.

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Speaker 2: Are you kidding?

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Speaker 3: I'm serious?

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Speaker 2: This is the second note.

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Speaker 3: Also, like, I'm sure you've figured out the band by now,

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Speaker 3: such a classic piece of rock lore.

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Speaker 2: I've got two guesses.

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Speaker 3: Okay, Well, things got desperate, huh. So they had to

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Speaker 3: talk to all these shady characters because they got to

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Speaker 3: get these tapes back. And then it turns out the

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Speaker 3: thieving band was storing the masters at their own recording studio. Okay,

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Speaker 3: so the original band they're able to get the masters back.

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Speaker 3: They figured out, they get them back and it's a

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Speaker 3: big like f you to the thieves. They swapped them

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Speaker 3: out with master tapes that had French lessons on them.

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Speaker 3: No music, I'm telling you, they're iconic. So they go

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Speaker 3: on to release their album as scheduled, and I guess

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Speaker 3: Rave Reviews Instant Classic. Do you know who that band was?

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Speaker 2: My guess is only because of the weirdness of it

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Speaker 2: and because you said rock. My original first guest because

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Speaker 2: of the year was My baby the Beastie Boys. But

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna go with guns and Roses no zaren.

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Speaker 3: It was Gem in the Holograms, the animated musical act

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Speaker 3: from the Saturday Morning cartoon.

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Speaker 2: Kidding me, how would I have possibly guess they're made

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Speaker 2: up cartoons?

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Speaker 3: This all went down and search of the I don't know,

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Speaker 3: I care of the name, in search of the stolen

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Speaker 3: album on the show was the seventeenth episode of the

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Speaker 3: first season, which means it was the seventeenth episode ever

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Speaker 3: overall of the GEM animated series.

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Speaker 2: Now this makes more sense why the whole band would

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Speaker 2: get in a van and go to look for their

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Speaker 2: stolen master tapes, because I was trying to picture all

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Speaker 2: these bands like load all right, guys, just like you know,

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Speaker 2: I got the drummer looking out the window.

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Speaker 3: I tell you this because when I was doing research

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Speaker 3: and looking for cases of stolen master tapes, I stumbled

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Speaker 3: upon a gem wiki website and made me laugh. And

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Speaker 3: then the website also triggered a bunch of virus warnings, and.

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Speaker 4: So it's like this has to be my kickoff.

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Speaker 2: Right totally. I like that you set it up where

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Speaker 2: it was like their albums are really lowly people looking

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Speaker 2: forward to their debut album. Right, had a debut album

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Speaker 2: in eighty six.

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Speaker 3: Watch Jem Jem in the Holocaust. Man.

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Speaker 2: I think my guesses are pretty good. For eighty six,

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Speaker 2: they were great, great classes. I figure you know music

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Speaker 2: better than I know.

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Speaker 3: You and I have talked a few times before about

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Speaker 3: using a fictional story, in my case an episode of

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Speaker 3: Father Brown and in your case one of the Fast

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Speaker 3: and Furious movies for an episode.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, see how long it takes before that still happens.

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Speaker 3: Someday It would make the crime purists irate, But I

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Speaker 3: feel like real rude dudes would totally get down with it.

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Speaker 2: I think they would enjoy it. And also the moment

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Speaker 2: when they figured it out, like, at what point.

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Speaker 3: Exactly, let me get into some real life theft.

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Speaker 2: Okay, that is a real life theft. It's just with

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Speaker 2: two ease.

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Speaker 3: Yes, you just brought up earlier at the top of

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Speaker 3: the episode, John Lennon, they did the Beatle not a

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Speaker 3: cartoon John Wit, he was Bernel Lennon. Yeah, but like

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Speaker 3: he existed.

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Speaker 2: Oh okay, now we're splitting hairs.

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Speaker 3: So at one time the Beatles were the biggest pop

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Speaker 3: rock band in the world. Yeah, John, Paul McCartney, George Harrison,

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Speaker 3: Ringo Star. They influenced music and culture. Then things got

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Speaker 3: messy and after a decade together they wanted to go

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Speaker 3: their separate ways. Fans are devastated.

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Speaker 2: Ringo Star was ascended. No one could keep up. He's

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Speaker 2: the coolest, well.

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Speaker 3: He's basically god. December thirty first, nineteen seventy Beatle Paul

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Speaker 3: McCartney filed suit for the dissolution of the band's contractual relationship.

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Speaker 2: Oh he was the one.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and then there are all these like legal entanglements

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Speaker 3: that dragged it was dragging it all out.

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Speaker 2: And it wasn't breakup Apple and all that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it wasn't made final until December twenty ninth, nineteen

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Speaker 3: seventy four.

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Speaker 2: Apple Records That Apple Records.

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Speaker 3: Fun fact, John Lennon signed the paperwork terminating the partnership

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Speaker 3: while he was on vacation with his family at Walt

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Speaker 3: Disney World Resort in Florida. Really, I'm dead serious.

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Speaker 2: He killed the Beatles at Disney no Longer the Happiest Yes,

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Speaker 2: and then they one day.

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Speaker 3: And they were like, in order to file this, you

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Speaker 3: have to talk to Chabbette. I can't believe I actually

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Speaker 3: got through that without just losing.

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Speaker 2: It a post office epcot there.

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Speaker 3: So things were messy for the band, but they were

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Speaker 3: also personally messy for John Lennon. So by nineteen seventy

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Speaker 3: three things are all over the place for him. He

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Speaker 3: left the Beatles, he separated from wife Yoko Ono. He

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Speaker 3: was living primarily in Los Angeles.

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Speaker 2: Lost Year Younger, the Lost.

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Speaker 3: Weekend, and he had Capitol Records breathing down his neck,

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Speaker 3: demanding an album, and not just any album, but an

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Speaker 3: album of nineteen fifties rock and roll covers that he'd

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Speaker 3: promised them.

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Speaker 2: Oh weird, Joshua used to tell me about this year.

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Speaker 2: He was really he read like all their books, biographies,

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Speaker 2: and he was fascinated by this period.

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Speaker 3: Of It's a crazy time because see, like here's what happened.

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Speaker 3: John Lennon crossed a music publisher named Morris Levy, who

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Speaker 3: said that the nineteen sixty nine Beatles song Come Together,

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Speaker 3: which was had his authorship on it, unlawfully borrowed lyrics

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Speaker 3: and phrasing from Chuck Berry's you Can't Catch Me huh,

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Speaker 3: and Levy controlled those through his company Big seven Music.

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Speaker 3: So in nineteen seventy three, rather than go to court,

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Speaker 3: John Lennon agreed to a settlement requiring him to record

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Speaker 3: at least three songs owned or controlled by Levy on

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Speaker 3: this next album, so he'd be paying the debt through

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Speaker 3: performance and mechanical royalties rather than cash.

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Speaker 2: It's like Willie Nelson's IRS tapes. You work out a

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Speaker 2: deal like I'll record and they're.

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Speaker 3: Hoping like this may make me more cash than you

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Speaker 3: could pay me.

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Speaker 2: Sure, of course.

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Speaker 3: So Capitol Records was involved because they were the US

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Speaker 3: label contractually responsible for delivering John Lennon's next album. Ah,

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Speaker 3: So the Morris Levy settlement it was structured around this

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Speaker 3: whole obligation. So when John agrees to resolve the dispute

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Speaker 3: by recording those songs, the understanding was that those records

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Speaker 3: would be delivered to Capitol Records to satisfy Capitol's release

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Speaker 3: schedule and their royalty accounting. So they're the like practical

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Speaker 3: intermediary they need the album fulfill the contract got all

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Speaker 3: that stuff set up. So for this project called rock

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Speaker 3: and Roll, John Lennon brought in a big dog, someone

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Speaker 3: with the chops to make this a major release, someone

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Speaker 3: special for something special. He brought in the creator of

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Speaker 3: the Wall of Sound, Phil Spector, whoa so at the time.

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Speaker 3: Phil Spector was one of the most important influential producers

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Speaker 3: in the biz. And Wall of Sound, if you're not familiar,

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Speaker 3: is this recording and production style that takes the rough

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Speaker 3: immatiate of nineteen fifties rock and roll and puts it

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Speaker 3: on an orchestral scale. So examples are be My Baby

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Speaker 3: by the Ronettes, to Do or on ron by the Crystals.

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Speaker 3: Such a good song River Deep, Mountain High I Cantina Turn,

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Speaker 3: You've Lost that love and feeling by the Righteous Brothers,

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Speaker 3: then he Kissed Me by the Crystals. Brian Wilson borrowed

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Speaker 3: heavily from the technique for the Beach Boys album Pet Sounds.

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Speaker 2: I did too for just my normal fashion sense sound.

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Speaker 2: I'm like this is a visual wall of.

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Speaker 3: Sounds, Shia wall of Sound. So Lennon had worked with

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Speaker 3: Specter on his album Imagine in nineteen seventy one and

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Speaker 3: on earlier Beatles projects. And so Specter though, like he's

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Speaker 3: got this reputation. He's intense, he's excessive, he's unpredictable's hair.

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Speaker 3: Everybody knows that, and he would become it would come

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Speaker 3: to a violent head.

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Speaker 4: Decades later he was a shouergna.

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Speaker 3: You heard it, Like he does terrible things. We won't

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Speaker 3: talk about past that, Elizabeth. But Lennon believed that Specters

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Speaker 3: in immersion in early rock and roll would suit.

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Speaker 4: The covers completely.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

252
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Speaker 3: So the rock and roll sessions, they involved this rotating

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Speaker 3: cast of musicians and a deliberately shall we say, loose atmosphere,

254
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Speaker 3: not structured at all. They recorded at a bunch of

255
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Speaker 3: different studios in La Lenin later described the sessions as

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Speaker 3: totally unfocused and basically drunk.

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Speaker 2: I was gonna say I from I understand there was

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Speaker 2: a lot of the drinking and the drugging exactly.

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Speaker 3: And he also added that Specter was both controlling and erratic. Yes,

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Speaker 3: which is a bad company. Which, Yeah, So at this

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Speaker 3: stage it was typical for a producer to handle or

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Speaker 3: transport work tapes between studios, So Lenin he assumed that

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Speaker 3: Specter was like safeguarding the masters and all these session

264
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Speaker 3: rules as part of the production process. There's no evidence

265
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Speaker 3: that John Lennon signed over ownership of the tapes themselves

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Speaker 3: beyond just like production authority, you can carry them. They

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Speaker 3: are recording with a madman at the helm. The sessions

268
00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:06,200
Speaker 3: got worse and worse and more and more turbulent, and

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Speaker 3: then Phil Spector went radio silent. He ghosted everyone, even

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Speaker 3: John Lennon, whoa and that ghost was the one with

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Speaker 3: the master tapes and the session reels for rock and Roll.

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Speaker 2: That Lennon knows like multiple groups like both Capital and

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Speaker 2: then for the Levee.

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Speaker 3: Except for Levy. So Lenin doesn't have access to the

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Speaker 3: recordings that are necessary to complete the album that he

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Speaker 3: has to get in and his later accounts were like

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Speaker 3: super blunt about this. He said repeatedly in a bunch

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Speaker 3: of different interviews that Phil Spector stole the tapes and

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00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:40,280
Speaker 3: that he had taken them and then disappeared. And so

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Speaker 3: there's no indication or proof that like he authorized, you know,

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Speaker 3: transfer of control. So what's Phil Spector up to?

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Speaker 2: And also what's his move Like is he gonna be

283
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Speaker 2: I'm gonna put these out in Canada?

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Speaker 3: I don't know. He's just well, he got into a

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Speaker 3: serious car accident in la and then he used that

286
00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:59,160
Speaker 3: as an excuse as to why he dropped off the radar.

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Speaker 3: And it also added to the mystery as to the

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Speaker 3: possession of the tapes because he's like, you know what,

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Speaker 3: I don't even know where they are.

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Speaker 2: My memory is.

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00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:11,000
Speaker 3: He didn't deny having them, but he was just like,

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Speaker 3: it's just everything's a mess, man. But without the tapes,

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00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:18,600
Speaker 3: Lenin couldn't complete rock and roll. And Capitol Records they

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Speaker 3: wanted that album immediately, wanted it.

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00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:22,200
Speaker 2: Yesterday, they got deadlines.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but he didn't have a master's. There's nothing to

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00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:28,320
Speaker 3: cobble together, nothing to remix or overdub, no masters, no album.

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Speaker 3: So rather than attempt to legally recover the tapes immediately

299
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Speaker 3: or re record everything from scratch, he pivoted John Lennon

300
00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:40,160
Speaker 3: went back to New York started working on new original material.

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Speaker 2: So that's his MOVI is, I'll just make a new

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00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:42,720
Speaker 2: album or get it.

303
00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:45,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, And so that led directly to the recording of

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00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:48,560
Speaker 3: his album Walls and Bridges in mid nineteen seventy four,

305
00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:52,440
Speaker 3: and so in interviews from seventy four onward, he's like

306
00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:56,920
Speaker 3: consistently talking about this being a theft, it's not a misunderstanding.

307
00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:01,440
Speaker 3: And he was just like, this is not stable and

308
00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:04,680
Speaker 3: I'm never working with him again. But despite all this

309
00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:07,080
Speaker 3: like severe language, he didn't sue.

310
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Speaker 2: I should have listened to the rawn Nettes.

311
00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:12,080
Speaker 3: He used Capitol Records as a go between. Seriously, this

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00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:13,400
Speaker 3: like hostage negotiating.

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Speaker 4: You know, they got people, uh huh and it Chacoba.

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Speaker 3: Was no surprise that the major label got what it wanted.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I bet so. I went right to the mom hand.

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00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:25,360
Speaker 3: By late nineteen seventy four, they had the tapes okay,

317
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Speaker 3: and it was never revealed exactly how they did it,

318
00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:32,480
Speaker 3: but they had him and yeah, and they have him.

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Speaker 3: Specter doesn't have Lennon doesn't have them.

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Speaker 2: He never tries again.

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Speaker 3: He still had to finish the album. He's contractually obligated,

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00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:43,520
Speaker 3: but like I said, he's never gonna work with Spectra again. Instead,

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Speaker 3: he brings in this producer named Jack Douglas to finish

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00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:49,200
Speaker 3: rock and roll. And Douglas was a solid dude. He

325
00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:53,120
Speaker 3: had actually been a songwriter on Robert F. Kennedy's nineteen

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00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:54,840
Speaker 3: sixty four senatorial campaign.

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Speaker 2: I was waiting to have that sentence ended.

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Speaker 3: I was like Robert so back when political campaigns had

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00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:06,760
Speaker 3: songwriters and folk musician ones at that At the point

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00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:09,359
Speaker 3: that he joined the project, he had this really good

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Speaker 3: reputation as this incredible sound engineer.

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Speaker 2: I do remember that album Shamrocks and Chicken Pots. It

333
00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:17,280
Speaker 2: was a really good one, so goods okay with the

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Speaker 2: Robert F.

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00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:23,400
Speaker 3: Kennedy singers, and so Jack Douglas. He's this great sound engineer.

336
00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:26,560
Speaker 3: He had already worked with John Lennon and this was

337
00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:30,160
Speaker 3: one of his first producing gigs, and so he got

338
00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:33,720
Speaker 3: the recovered tapes, he remixed, He completed the album without

339
00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:37,560
Speaker 3: Specter's involvement. The album Rock and Roll was released in

340
00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:41,160
Speaker 3: February of nineteen seventy five. Specter still got a production

341
00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:43,800
Speaker 3: credit because of the work he'd done on the original I'm.

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00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:44,679
Speaker 2: Sure had to.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the whole thing left John Lennon gunshy about letting

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00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:52,280
Speaker 3: others control the recording sessions in the atmosphere. He just

345
00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:55,639
Speaker 3: couldn't do chaos. He wanted structure, He wanted control, and

346
00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:59,480
Speaker 3: he got really picky and meticulous and not only stalled

347
00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:01,280
Speaker 3: projects more and irritated the label.

348
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Speaker 2: I want to work with David Bowie.

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Speaker 3: That's the level of Specter still got work. This didn't

350
00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:09,880
Speaker 3: turn people off. It was just like another tale old

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Speaker 3: crazy Phil Spector.

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Speaker 2: That's the thing about records. In the record industry, you

353
00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:15,520
Speaker 2: can put a gun on the table and negotiations. People

354
00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:17,680
Speaker 2: are like, well, you know he put guns on the table.

355
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Speaker 3: It's a menace, but he can make a hit. Let's

356
00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:22,360
Speaker 3: take a break when we come back. I have more

357
00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:45,320
Speaker 3: tape theft and antics for you, Zarin.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Elizabeth, I got to ask you a question before

359
00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:49,919
Speaker 2: you started going yeah, okay. Have you listened to the

360
00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:52,640
Speaker 2: rock and roll album by Lennon? Said seventy five?

361
00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:53,879
Speaker 3: I have not.

362
00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:55,600
Speaker 2: I'm not familiar with that one.

363
00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:57,680
Speaker 3: I think I feel like I've heard like maybe one

364
00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:00,040
Speaker 3: or two tracks, but I don't think I've listened.

365
00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:01,639
Speaker 2: To the whole thing. Now I'm curious to hear it.

366
00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:03,720
Speaker 2: My cousin references as I told you at that time,

367
00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:06,119
Speaker 2: he was really fascinated and he's mentioned the album and

368
00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:08,399
Speaker 2: I've never really been I can think of sat down and.

369
00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:10,639
Speaker 3: Like a deep dive on John Lennon.

370
00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:11,840
Speaker 2: He was not my favorite people.

371
00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:11,920
Speaker 3: No.

372
00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:16,560
Speaker 2: George Harrison, Yeah, remember saying like a last episode about

373
00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:18,960
Speaker 2: how you get a sense that a person is like

374
00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:21,680
Speaker 2: I always had that with him. I never had that week.

375
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Speaker 3: Wasn't a good dude.

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Speaker 2: I had actually with both him and McCartney. And but

377
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Speaker 2: I won't get into that about McCartney. But uh, with

378
00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:30,480
Speaker 2: the Ringo and George Harrison, I'm like, they seem like

379
00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:31,120
Speaker 2: they're pretty good.

380
00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:32,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, George Harrison was a good dude.

381
00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:33,960
Speaker 2: Oh he's the best of the bunch.

382
00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:36,800
Speaker 3: So I told you about John Lennon, Yeah, what about

383
00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:37,560
Speaker 3: his better half?

384
00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:39,040
Speaker 2: What about his better half?

385
00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:40,920
Speaker 3: Not Yoko? Oh no, but rather Paul McCartney.

386
00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:42,160
Speaker 2: You're gonna say Sean Lennon.

387
00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:45,760
Speaker 3: No, we're sticking with the Beatles here, Paul McCartney. So,

388
00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:48,760
Speaker 3: around the time that John Lennon was having his Douop

389
00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:55,280
Speaker 3: midlife graces in La Paul McCartney childhood, Paul McCartney and

390
00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:57,440
Speaker 3: his wife Linda were on their own adventure.

391
00:19:57,440 --> 00:19:58,400
Speaker 2: They're doing Wings at this point.

392
00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:00,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, they had a band called Wings. Paul had done

393
00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:03,960
Speaker 3: a couple like truly solo projects, one man stuff, but

394
00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:06,040
Speaker 3: now he and Linda had this band and they wanted

395
00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:08,680
Speaker 3: to record an album, and Paul was like a little

396
00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:11,199
Speaker 3: unsure about being in a band. What was like the

397
00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:15,000
Speaker 3: emotional trauma of the Beatles behind him but they'd already

398
00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:17,159
Speaker 3: recorded a song that went on to be nominated for

399
00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:20,680
Speaker 3: an Oscar Live and Let Die for the James Bond

400
00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:24,240
Speaker 3: film the same name in the Oscars, Oh so good,

401
00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:27,200
Speaker 3: they were up against all that love went to waste

402
00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:31,640
Speaker 3: from a touch of class love from Robin Hood and

403
00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:35,320
Speaker 3: You're so nice to be around from Cinderella Liberty. If

404
00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:37,119
Speaker 3: you say so, Have you ever heard of that movie?

405
00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:37,679
Speaker 2: No?

406
00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:41,399
Speaker 3: I hadn't heard of it. Here's the rundown quote. The

407
00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:44,000
Speaker 3: film tells the story of a sailor who falls in

408
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:46,960
Speaker 3: love with a prostitute and becomes a surrogate father for

409
00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:50,080
Speaker 3: her ten year old mixed race son. The film stars

410
00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:54,200
Speaker 3: James Kahn, Marcia Mason, and Eli Wallack and was produced

411
00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:55,600
Speaker 3: and directed by Mark Rydell.

412
00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:57,680
Speaker 2: I like all of those actors.

413
00:20:57,720 --> 00:20:58,320
Speaker 3: It's crazy.

414
00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:01,639
Speaker 4: This is the craziest complete I never heard of it.

415
00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:04,880
Speaker 3: I never heard her. But who won for Best Song

416
00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:08,200
Speaker 3: at the forty sixth Oscars held in early nineteen seventy.

417
00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:09,720
Speaker 2: Four Fingers crossed Liberty.

418
00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:12,600
Speaker 3: I haven't mentioned the name of the song yet, can

419
00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:13,119
Speaker 3: you guess?

420
00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:13,760
Speaker 2: No?

421
00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:18,880
Speaker 3: The way we were, From the way we were, Marvin Hamleys,

422
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:22,560
Speaker 3: you did it again, y' so, And so so in

423
00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:23,720
Speaker 3: the meantime.

424
00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:26,640
Speaker 2: You get Babs and Marvin together, get out of here.

425
00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:30,400
Speaker 3: In late nineteen seventy three, the McCartneys went to Lagos,

426
00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:34,040
Speaker 3: Nigeria to record what would become one of the most

427
00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:37,920
Speaker 3: famous albums of his post Beatles' career. The Wings album

428
00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:40,960
Speaker 3: banned on the run, and the trip was meant to

429
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:46,720
Speaker 3: be like both bold and economical, and instead it nearly derailed.

430
00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:48,160
Speaker 2: Absolutely everything, I imagine.

431
00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:51,800
Speaker 3: So Paul chose Nigeria in part because he wanted to

432
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:57,040
Speaker 3: get around British text pressures. Yeah, in part, he also

433
00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:01,920
Speaker 3: wanted a fresh, non London environment, so he selected Lagos

434
00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:05,080
Speaker 3: as a recording destination because he looked through EMI's list

435
00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:06,440
Speaker 3: of studios around.

436
00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:08,160
Speaker 4: The world, like flip flip, I was wondering he.

437
00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:12,320
Speaker 3: Wanted to change a scene, and he chose Africa for adventure.

438
00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:17,560
Speaker 3: An entire continent is so British. So he booked time

439
00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:21,720
Speaker 3: at EMI's Lagos studio, and he wanted like basic but

440
00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:25,800
Speaker 3: workable facilities. And then at this point Wings, it's just him,

441
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:29,560
Speaker 3: Linda and this guy Denny Lane, the d Yeah, two

442
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:32,000
Speaker 3: other members had quit right before they left for Nigeria.

443
00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:32,560
Speaker 2: Oh wow.

444
00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:35,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, So at this point, like the scene in Lagos

445
00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:38,840
Speaker 3: was what could, as I said before, gently be described

446
00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:39,720
Speaker 3: as difficult.

447
00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:43,280
Speaker 2: That's a tough sell for getting a musician to join

448
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:44,440
Speaker 2: your band. You're like, do you want to be in

449
00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:47,040
Speaker 2: Paul McCartney's new band. They're like, yes, is he kind

450
00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:49,000
Speaker 2: of a has been I wanted? I'm a young up

451
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:49,320
Speaker 2: and coming.

452
00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:54,879
Speaker 3: They probably think it's great, But like MESSI, Nigeria is

453
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:57,400
Speaker 3: still dealing with the ramifications of a civil war.

454
00:22:57,480 --> 00:22:58,960
Speaker 2: I was going to say, this is like the real

455
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:00,359
Speaker 2: time in Nigeria's.

456
00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:04,399
Speaker 3: Lagos has major infrastructure and like sanitation.

457
00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:06,240
Speaker 2: Issue, Yes, mountains of trash and they're.

458
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:09,159
Speaker 3: Getting there in September, which is the beginning of monsoon season.

459
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:10,000
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness.

460
00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:13,720
Speaker 3: Right, so the band they fly from Gatwick to Lagos

461
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:15,600
Speaker 3: August thirty first, nineteen seventy three.

462
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:18,960
Speaker 2: Gatwick, now right, Paul and Linda.

463
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:22,120
Speaker 3: Brought their kids from the jump. Things didn't go according

464
00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:27,280
Speaker 3: to plan, so the storms brought power issues. Logistics are

465
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:28,400
Speaker 3: in a tail spin.

466
00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:30,560
Speaker 2: Which is what you need when you're recording is power.

467
00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:41,000
Speaker 3: Zarin, close your eye, okay, I want you to picture it.

468
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:45,919
Speaker 3: It's Monday, September seventeenth, nineteen seventy three. Night has fallen

469
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:49,160
Speaker 3: on the city of Lagos. You are a teenage boy

470
00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:52,520
Speaker 3: out for a ride with your nar dwell cousins, rumbling

471
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,920
Speaker 3: along the damp streets, out looking for trouble or girls,

472
00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:59,080
Speaker 3: or both. You have the window down in the back seat,

473
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:02,159
Speaker 3: letting the breeze dance across your skin. You're hoping the

474
00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 3: guys will want to stop for food soon. You're rather

475
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,520
Speaker 3: peckish and you get irritable if you haven't eaten. You

476
00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:09,520
Speaker 3: look down the street. You see two people leave a

477
00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:12,359
Speaker 3: building and begin strolling along the sidewalk, a man and

478
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:16,240
Speaker 3: a woman. Your cousin out a bio, nods towards them

479
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:18,760
Speaker 3: and tells the group that the couple are leaving a

480
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:22,639
Speaker 3: recording studio. It belongs to Ginger Baker. He says, English

481
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:27,960
Speaker 3: rock drummer. He's close mates with Felakuti. Wow, you think, fella.

482
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:31,240
Speaker 3: The woman's got a large camera hanging around her neck

483
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:34,440
Speaker 3: and carries a rucksack on her shoulders. The guy's got

484
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:36,760
Speaker 3: a large tote bag on one shoulder and a duffel

485
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:40,920
Speaker 3: bag in his hand. There's sandals splashing puddles, the bottoms

486
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:43,480
Speaker 3: of their bell bottom jeans blooming up in an umbre

487
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:46,879
Speaker 3: of muddy rainwater. The man whistles a tune, and the

488
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:51,639
Speaker 3: lady hums along with him. Your cousin Undubisi pulls the

489
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 3: card to the curb as he becomes level with the

490
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:56,359
Speaker 3: couple and calls out the open window. Need a ride,

491
00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,960
Speaker 3: no thanks to the man says cheerily at a biote,

492
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:01,919
Speaker 3: turns to you and tells you to stay in the car.

493
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:05,199
Speaker 3: Then he and your other cousins all pop out and

494
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:08,240
Speaker 3: surround the couple. Cousin Econ pulls a knife from his

495
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:11,960
Speaker 3: jacket pocket. You have got to be kidding me, you think,

496
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:15,359
Speaker 3: these idiots, although it was pretty stupid to this couple

497
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,359
Speaker 3: to go strolling at night carrying all that stuff marks.

498
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:20,920
Speaker 3: The man and the woman raise their hands and say

499
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 3: they don't want any trouble. You want to call out

500
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:25,639
Speaker 3: the window to them that you don't either. In a

501
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,080
Speaker 3: matter of moments, your cousins relieve the couple of all

502
00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 3: their bags. They toss the goods into the backseat with you,

503
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 3: and then they all hop back in the car. The

504
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:36,040
Speaker 3: car peels away from the corner and you look behind you.

505
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 3: The couple look absolutely defeated. The woman bursts into tears,

506
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:43,239
Speaker 3: and the man comforts her. You lose sight of them

507
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 3: as the car takes the corner at speed. You feel sick,

508
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 3: a dark pit burning in your stomach. This is so wrong.

509
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:53,320
Speaker 3: Your cousins begin digging through the bags, looking for anything

510
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:56,200
Speaker 3: worth anything. They hand you the tote bag and tell

511
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 3: you to go through it. It's just notebooks. From the

512
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 3: duffel bag, your cousin produces a stack of real de

513
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:04,639
Speaker 3: real tapes. He shrugs and puts them back in the bag,

514
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:06,960
Speaker 3: mentioning that his friend has a band may want to

515
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:10,439
Speaker 3: use them. Record over whatever junk is on there. The

516
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:14,040
Speaker 3: ladies backpack doesn't have much. It gets tossed out the

517
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:17,119
Speaker 3: window and into the gutter. You flip through the notebooks.

518
00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:21,080
Speaker 3: It looks like poems or lyrics, or just scribbled phrases.

519
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 3: What do they say, your cousin asks. You begin to

520
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 3: read from the page in front of you. Well, the

521
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 3: undertaker drew a heavy sigh, seeing no one else had come,

522
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 3: and a bell was ringing in the village square for

523
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:38,240
Speaker 3: the rabbits on the run, band on the run, band

524
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 3: on the run, and the jailer Man and sailor Sam

525
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 3: were searching everyone. That makes no sense. Your cousin announces,

526
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:49,399
Speaker 3: he tells you to toss him out the window. You

527
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:51,720
Speaker 3: often stead to shove a couple of the notebooks into

528
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 3: the waistband of your pants and pull your shirt over

529
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:56,160
Speaker 3: the top. The rest of the books you push into

530
00:26:56,200 --> 00:27:00,440
Speaker 3: the footwell beneath you. You keep thinking of that couple. Mind.

531
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:04,680
Speaker 3: They became the jailor Man and Sailor Sam, and you

532
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 3: are the rabbit on the run. Okay, So.

533
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 2: And Sailor Sam.

534
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 3: What it's like that weird? I just can't so. The

535
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:24,680
Speaker 3: thieves they made off with the demo tapes that Paul

536
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:28,080
Speaker 3: had been using as working references for the album, basically

537
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:30,159
Speaker 3: all the stuff they needed to put it together. And

538
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:33,159
Speaker 3: that includes the original demo of the song band on

539
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:36,600
Speaker 3: the Run from which you quoted in the car. So,

540
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 3: Paul and Linda, they're like rightfully traumatized by the experience,

541
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:43,359
Speaker 3: not so much by like the threat of violence, but

542
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 3: by the loss of their work. Imagine they've been told like,

543
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:49,919
Speaker 3: don't walk back to your hotel, get a car, nah,

544
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:53,840
Speaker 3: and like certainly don't parade along with cameras and bags

545
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 3: and other items. Yeah, you're flaunting your wealth in the

546
00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:01,520
Speaker 3: face of like a desperate populace, a populist in desperation,

547
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 3: thanks in part to the actions of your country's boot

548
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:07,640
Speaker 3: on their necks for more than a century. It's a simplification,

549
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:10,040
Speaker 3: but crooks don't operate in nuance.

550
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,000
Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, so, or in a vacuum no.

551
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 3: So. All that aside, they had immediate needs. Paul and

552
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 3: Linda had to rebuild the album from memory, and obviously

553
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:22,720
Speaker 3: it's like this major setback. Have you ever lost notes

554
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:24,879
Speaker 3: on something you were writing and had to start from scratch?

555
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:28,639
Speaker 3: Oh god, yeah, especially something creative, not like research based.

556
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 2: It's the worst because you're trying to recover and there's

557
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:33,920
Speaker 2: like a magic to the process and you won't remember

558
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 2: it exactly, so you'd be making a new thing exactly.

559
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 3: I had a poem I was working on, and I

560
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 3: had this scrap of paper where I'd written all these

561
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 3: notes and turns of phrases and it was amazing. And

562
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 3: then I lost the scrap of paper. I looked everywhere,

563
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 3: Oh god, And I tried to rebuild it from memory,

564
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 3: but that was like a lost cause and I was

565
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 3: never able to recreate it. But you know what, in permanence,

566
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 3: the words were the sand in Maimundol, like I said

567
00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 3: to let it go. So anyway, band on the they

568
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 3: had to rebuild it, and like with John Lennon, they

569
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 3: had contracts to fulfill. But luckily, okay, so there's only

570
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 3: three of them at this point in the band. Sure,

571
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 3: so they're more intimately involved in it and they can

572
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:14,680
Speaker 3: kind of easily improvise and like quickly build it back up.

573
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 3: But the robbery wasn't the only challenge. Paul was also

574
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:25,240
Speaker 3: confronted by local musicians, including members of Fella Kuti's circle.

575
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 3: They accused him of exploiting African music by recording in Nigeria.

576
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,720
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, and he's like, you know, I am.

577
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 3: Not drawing on Nigerian music at all. No, He's like,

578
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 3: I'm doing my whole rock needs Vaudeville thing. I promise,

579
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:44,479
Speaker 3: like it's a big panto show. Don't worry about it.

580
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 3: But it took its toll and so the day after

581
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 3: the mugging, another bad turn of events, Paul collapsed during

582
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:55,480
Speaker 3: a session at Emi Studios in Lagos. He was having

583
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 3: trouble breathing at chest pain and the engineer describes him

584
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:03,280
Speaker 3: like gasping for air. He fainted. Linda's like screaming, He's

585
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 3: that heart attack. They rush him to the hospital in

586
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 3: a car. Everyone back at the studio is like waiting

587
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 3: on pins and needles, and then they get a phone call.

588
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:14,400
Speaker 3: It wasn't a heart attack. It was a bronchial spasm.

589
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 2: I figured as anxiety.

590
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, the bronchial spasms can be caused by like

591
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 3: underlying conditions like asthma, irritants like allergens, chemicals, or by

592
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 3: stress stress. That's just how I would diagnose.

593
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 2: A lot of physical conditions can be triggered by stress.

594
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 3: Stress can kill, it can lay you low, it can

595
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:33,320
Speaker 3: trigger all sorts of things.

596
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:35,719
Speaker 2: Turn your hair white. Yes, here's some people who get

597
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:37,000
Speaker 2: stressed and all of a sudden they have a streak

598
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 2: of white in their hair.

599
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,080
Speaker 3: Well, most presidents, like by the end of their terms,

600
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 3: they're gray. We all need to take care of ourselves.

601
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 3: We need to hydrate, get enough sleep, reduce stress.

602
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 2: I really focus on the reducing stress by just not

603
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 2: really trying to be stressed about anything. I'm telling you,

604
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 2: it really works. Like I have all the people I know,

605
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm seeing how my like don't get stressed.

606
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 2: It's really working out.

607
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 3: That's good.

608
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 2: I highly recommend to everybody I'm like.

609
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:03,760
Speaker 3: You don't get stressed.

610
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 2: I'm like, I don't even sleep well. I kind of eat, okay,

611
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 2: but really what I focus on is not going to stress.

612
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 4: That's good, that's smart, Elizabeth.

613
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:17,000
Speaker 3: So here's a good thing. Bronchial spasms an upside, huh?

614
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:23,520
Speaker 3: Is it there? Looking for silver linings? They're easily treated

615
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:27,520
Speaker 3: with broncho dilators like rescue inhalers. Okay, yeah, relax the

616
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 3: muscles open the airways and you say.

617
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 2: You're talking with the dilators. You're talking like you know

618
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 2: as things are like, oh okay because you know excited

619
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:39,840
Speaker 2: were used for that? Yeah?

620
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 3: No, but it goes yes, yeah, a couple of thank you.

621
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 3: A couple of days later, September twenty second, nineteen seventy three,

622
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:51,520
Speaker 3: the band left Lagos headed back to London.

623
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 2: On the run.

624
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 3: Band literally on the run. When they got back, Paul's like,

625
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 3: I think I don't want to do this whole project.

626
00:31:58,920 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 3: Is it cursed?

627
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 2: Like no?

628
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:03,400
Speaker 3: And he's like, but I'm a soldier on so he

629
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:04,040
Speaker 3: sat down.

630
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 2: He's also don't want to pay my text.

631
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 3: Right, so how do I get around that? He starts

632
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 3: rewriting the songs by like recalling the melodies and the

633
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 3: lyrics and the structures. Linda's like, let me help you.

634
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,160
Speaker 3: I can reconstruct some of the lyrics. What if we

635
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:21,720
Speaker 3: had the jailor man and the sailor Sam And he's

636
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 3: like this sounds amazing. And she offered moral support. She's like,

637
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 3: you know, keep strong and carry on or whatever it is.

638
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 3: What's it cool? What is it? Keep calling? You know

639
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 3: that that like wasn't a poster in World War Two?

640
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 2: Yeah? I thought it was something.

641
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 3: It was They printed him and then it just like

642
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 3: didn't test right and they destroyed almost all of them.

643
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:46,000
Speaker 2: When did it actually then become a thing in the

644
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 2: sixties later on later than.

645
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:53,000
Speaker 3: Like they like last year, it was quite It was

646
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:55,120
Speaker 3: decades later they found like one of the posters and

647
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:57,760
Speaker 3: we're like started slapping it when it showed up on

648
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 3: all that stuff lugs and they were still on the.

649
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 2: Stiff upper lip more than keep calm and carry on.

650
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:05,280
Speaker 2: Although it was it was for the underground like that

651
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:07,120
Speaker 2: when they were doing the bombing.

652
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:10,760
Speaker 3: Right, they decided not to use them anyway, So that's

653
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:13,239
Speaker 3: what she was like, Hey, buddy, keep calm, carry on.

654
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 3: He's like, thank you so much. This is stressful, but

655
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:20,520
Speaker 3: we're going to get through this. So they had to

656
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:21,360
Speaker 3: restructure it.

657
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 2: Stressed, baby, we're going to do this.

658
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 3: He's like, guess what, We're going to let Jesus take

659
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 3: the wheel.

660
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 2: That would be incredible.

661
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 3: What if he just went totally Jesus kind like a

662
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 3: Bob dying everything this period, everything became super lean.

663
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:36,560
Speaker 2: Do you know the Bob Dylan for once, for a

664
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 2: while thought he was Jesus. Not only did he like

665
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 2: come to Jesus, he thought Jesus came and became him.

666
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 3: How do we know? He was wrong?

667
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 2: And he also thought he had to say thought he

668
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 2: believed was put at that that he did a contract

669
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 2: with the devil Like Robert Johnson.

670
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 4: Again, he has a really interesting he's wrong true anything?

671
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 3: Okay. So this new album, it's like way more streamlined

672
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:03,040
Speaker 3: that some of the songs get simplified, Like basically it

673
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 3: was like this was the best editing they could have.

674
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 3: The Darlings got killed.

675
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:07,920
Speaker 2: Wow.

676
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:11,080
Speaker 3: And so the title track, Band on the Run became

677
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:14,719
Speaker 3: more cinematic and like multi section piece because you know,

678
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:16,200
Speaker 3: it's like it feels like a couple.

679
00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:17,440
Speaker 4: Songs completely put together.

680
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 2: It shift gears.

681
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 3: Way more than it had been originally planned. So despite everything,

682
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:25,160
Speaker 3: Band on the Run gets completed, Finished in London, released

683
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:29,720
Speaker 3: in December of nineteen seventy, massive critical and commercial success.

684
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 3: Thank you, Linda, Linda, and it was widely regarded as

685
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:35,320
Speaker 3: like his strongest post Beatles.

686
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:38,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, definitely, so you know it.

687
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:43,640
Speaker 3: Helped him, you know, hone in get through it you're scared.

688
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:45,359
Speaker 2: And also not become a has been of like, oh

689
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 2: you know he's still trying to make music.

690
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:50,360
Speaker 3: Geit that in Haler and then you know, give me

691
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:52,880
Speaker 3: an a. So let's stop for some ads and we

692
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:55,319
Speaker 3: come back even more stolen tapes.

693
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,719
Speaker 2: Zaren Elizabeth Arn Can I say that I love that.

694
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:20,839
Speaker 2: Fellow Cooties people are like, you are not coming down

695
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:21,880
Speaker 2: or exploiting.

696
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:24,920
Speaker 3: Our music, right, Hinder Baker can do it, but you

697
00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:28,439
Speaker 3: he's different, No, he was character, But Buddies they were close.

698
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:30,480
Speaker 2: You know, they had very similar spirits.

699
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 3: They really did coup less when we left off, two

700
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 3: members of the Beatles had been robbed in their own

701
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:38,600
Speaker 3: way of their hard work.

702
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:41,360
Speaker 2: Oh that's right. Yeah, I thought you're gonna say, like,

703
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:43,440
Speaker 2: we got two more hit too.

704
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:46,200
Speaker 3: It should relieve you to know that I have no

705
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 3: more Beatles to terrorize. Okay, George and Ringo. They get

706
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:50,280
Speaker 3: out unscathed.

707
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:52,319
Speaker 2: Like I said, the good guys. People are like, I'm

708
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:52,920
Speaker 2: not robbing ring.

709
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 3: I do have another pop music legend for you, Michael Jackson.

710
00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:00,359
Speaker 4: Everybody, Oh yeah, can you rob the Beatles King.

711
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:04,440
Speaker 3: Of So that's what that pretty much one of the

712
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 3: biggest cultural figures of the twentieth century started as a

713
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:09,920
Speaker 3: kid in the Jackson five went on to become a

714
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 3: worldwide sensation. He had highs and lows, accolades and scandals.

715
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:18,880
Speaker 3: His death at the age of fifty. This is interesting.

716
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:20,759
Speaker 3: When I was just like kind of looking things up. Sure,

717
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:24,080
Speaker 3: it was two thousand and nine, total shock. Like, as

718
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:26,360
Speaker 3: you know, his doctor gave him this insane cocktail of

719
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 3: drugs to help him sleep, and then he like got

720
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 3: permanently asleep.

721
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 2: Too deep a sleep.

722
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 3: His The news of his death basically broke the Internet.

723
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:38,400
Speaker 3: It crashed all these huge websites. MTV went back to

724
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:41,920
Speaker 3: playing music videos again. Wow yeah, and then this is

725
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:44,680
Speaker 3: the wild part. His memorial was held on July seventh,

726
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:47,279
Speaker 3: two thousand and nine, at the Staples Center in La

727
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:51,319
Speaker 3: More than one point six million fans applied for the

728
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:54,719
Speaker 3: eight thousand, seven hundred and fifty available tickets to the

729
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:57,479
Speaker 3: memorial that we're gonna be drawn at random, insane. Yeah,

730
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 3: the memorial service was one of the most watched events

731
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 3: in streaming history. In the US alone, viewership was just

732
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:06,800
Speaker 3: over thirty one million.

733
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 4: It's like America.

734
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:13,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, Worldwide, it's estimated between two point five and three

735
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:17,360
Speaker 3: billion with a bee people watched. Now there were six

736
00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:18,759
Speaker 3: point eight billion.

737
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 2: People, almost half the population.

738
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:23,080
Speaker 3: So it could be almost half of the humans on

739
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:26,719
Speaker 3: earth watched his funeral. That isn't that crazy.

740
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:28,560
Speaker 2: I don't know how gonna get my eyes back in

741
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:29,480
Speaker 2: my head they are.

742
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:35,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a lot nuts. So you know, he was

743
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 3: already an icon, but now he's a legend. Yeah, and

744
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:41,560
Speaker 3: like things tied to him became even more valuable.

745
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:43,480
Speaker 2: I'm still blown away by.

746
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:49,040
Speaker 3: I was. I was in the non watching half of humanity.

747
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:51,240
Speaker 2: Same. I mean, I had my time where I loved Michael.

748
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:52,160
Speaker 2: Then I kind of fell.

749
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 3: Away and I already watched his funeral.

750
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 2: No, I didn't ever come back after.

751
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 3: No, No, there's some things I don't forgive. So fast

752
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 3: forward to late twenty twenty three, a new Jersey based

753
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:07,759
Speaker 3: memorabilia auction house called Gotta Have Rock and Roll. You know,

754
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 3: it was preparing a sale, right, it's gonna be huge.

755
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:14,279
Speaker 3: They had more than two dozen analog tapes that were

756
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:18,560
Speaker 3: described by the auction house as quote incredibly rare, unreleased

757
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:21,640
Speaker 3: recordings by Michael Jackson, and so they were supposed to

758
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:24,480
Speaker 3: be from the nineteen ninety four recording sessions at New

759
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:28,920
Speaker 3: York's Hit Factory Studios, and the auction house's public framing

760
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:34,480
Speaker 3: emphasized collectibility rather than exploitation, because they're like, we're just

761
00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:37,719
Speaker 3: selling physical artifacts here. There's no copyright. You don't have

762
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 3: the right to reproduce or distribute what's on them. And

763
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:44,040
Speaker 3: so they're thinking, like each tape four grand a pop.

764
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 3: What I would think way more.

765
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:48,919
Speaker 2: That is the craziest garage sale pricing I've ever heard.

766
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:50,920
Speaker 3: No, of course this is they've listened to them.

767
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:52,320
Speaker 2: Was it really bad?

768
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:56,440
Speaker 3: It's just they're blank. This is not going to go smoothly, obviously,

769
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 3: So the Jackson estate they treated the appearance of the

770
00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:02,759
Speaker 3: tape on the market as presumptive evidence of wrongdoing.

771
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:04,360
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I'm sure his mama, she was still she

772
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 2: would have been a solive. It would have lost it.

773
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:11,319
Speaker 3: A state attorney, Jonathan Steinsapper, he sent a cease and

774
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:15,640
Speaker 3: Assist letter November twenty ninth, twenty twenty three, demanding that

775
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:18,480
Speaker 3: the auction house stop any efforts to sell the tapes

776
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:22,759
Speaker 3: immediately return them. He says the estate's position was that

777
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:26,960
Speaker 3: neither Michael Jackson nor Sony Music Entertainment ever sold or

778
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 3: gave away master tapes from those Hit factory sessions or

779
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:34,280
Speaker 3: anywhere else for that matter. So any tapes on offer

780
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:38,160
Speaker 3: must be stolen or otherwise, you know, taken without authorization,

781
00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 3: and therefore there's still property of the estate.

782
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 2: These weren't like tapes that somebody like had in their

783
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:45,920
Speaker 2: like Walkman at the Hit record in their pockets.

784
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:48,840
Speaker 3: These are masters. So the situation is at like a

785
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 3: standoff by early December, and the auction house they didn't

786
00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:55,600
Speaker 3: agree to the estate's demands. Wow, so the estate escalated

787
00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:59,279
Speaker 3: from warning letters to court action. They get this, They

788
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:03,960
Speaker 3: get this like superstar lawyer Alex Spiro. He notifies the

789
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:08,240
Speaker 3: auction house that the estate intended to seek emergency relief

790
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:12,200
Speaker 3: in the New York Supreme Court, specifically a temporary restraining

791
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:16,520
Speaker 3: order and a preliminary injunction on December thirteenth. So the

792
00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:19,880
Speaker 3: message like they're forcing their hand right remove the tapes

793
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:22,839
Speaker 3: voluntarily or we go to court. And it worked. So

794
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:27,600
Speaker 3: by Wednesday, December thirteen, the tapes had been removed from

795
00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:31,239
Speaker 3: the website, the auction house website, and at the same time,

796
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:35,000
Speaker 3: the broader sale continued and still included other Michael Jackson

797
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:38,640
Speaker 3: related items. Yes, but it made it really clear that

798
00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 3: this was about the tapes. They didn't care about the

799
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:44,320
Speaker 3: other random memorabilia. I couldn't find what happened to the tapes,

800
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:46,239
Speaker 3: but I'm assuming they just went back to the estate.

801
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:50,480
Speaker 3: So there are other Michael Jackson tapes that are in dispute,

802
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:55,439
Speaker 3: although not outright stuff, just interesting. In late twenty twenty four,

803
00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:58,960
Speaker 3: a bunch of analog tapes got uncovered in an abandoned

804
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:02,759
Speaker 3: storage unit in the San Fernando Valley in southern California.

805
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:05,200
Speaker 2: That must be a great place to buy storage here

806
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 2: they come up abandoned. Yeah, the storage wars time.

807
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:11,640
Speaker 3: Well that's what happened. So the space got bought up

808
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:14,560
Speaker 3: at auction by this guy, Greg Musgrove, who is a

809
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:18,320
Speaker 3: fifty six year old former California Highway Patrol officer turned

810
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:22,360
Speaker 3: stay at home dad and quote avid treasure hunter. Oh lord,

811
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:26,200
Speaker 3: So the unit had once belonged to Brian Mourn, who

812
00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:29,279
Speaker 3: was like the singer, songwriter and producer who worked with

813
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 3: Michael Jackson in the late eighties and the early nineties.

814
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:37,440
Speaker 3: So Musgrove, THEHP guy. He starts sorting through all the

815
00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:41,319
Speaker 3: contents and he stumbles on this collection of cassette and

816
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:45,640
Speaker 3: DAT those digital audio tape recordings there you go. That

817
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:51,080
Speaker 3: seemed like they contained twelve unreleased tracks recorded somewhere between

818
00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:53,960
Speaker 3: nineteen eighty nine and nineteen ninety one. So this is

819
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:59,240
Speaker 3: before Michael Jackson's Dangerous era. So alongside complete songs, they're

820
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 3: like snippets of other material stuff like Jackson and Lauren

821
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:06,719
Speaker 3: discussing the creative process during studio sessions. There's like this

822
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:11,520
Speaker 3: super rare behind the scenes glimpse into his studio work.

823
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:14,440
Speaker 2: Huh. You can hear them talking on the mic and art.

824
00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:17,319
Speaker 3: So then I like to like make it go like up.

825
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:20,880
Speaker 3: He's like no, no, that sounds awesome, really yeah, And

826
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 3: then it's like I go like further up and there's

827
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:27,840
Speaker 3: oh wow, I don't know who's saying which to witch.

828
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:34,440
Speaker 4: The It's like the behind the scenes I get it.

829
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:36,440
Speaker 3: So wait when you're going like do you want it

830
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:38,880
Speaker 3: to go like up. He's like, oh yeah, that's a

831
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:43,320
Speaker 3: really good idea, like up. Oh yeah, no, that's perfect.

832
00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:46,760
Speaker 3: And again I don't know which one is Michael saying this. Okay,

833
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:51,160
Speaker 3: So the tapes they had like all so it has

834
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:54,760
Speaker 3: all these songs on there, like titles like don't Believe

835
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:59,240
Speaker 3: It okay seven digits, which apparently was not a reference

836
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:04,120
Speaker 3: to phone numbers, reference to Morga identification numbers.

837
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:06,319
Speaker 2: He's like, yeah, no, I got to asked, did you

838
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:09,279
Speaker 2: know that Morgan identification numbers had seven digits? No, I'd

839
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:10,879
Speaker 2: never I'm kind of into that now.

840
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:12,920
Speaker 4: I'm not going to forget it exactly.

841
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:17,080
Speaker 3: And then truth on youth. Oh lord, I know, but

842
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:20,319
Speaker 3: it's a duet, and you know who the duet is with?

843
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:21,359
Speaker 2: No, I don't want to know.

844
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:29,800
Speaker 3: Ellll cool Jay whoa who does? Apparently been long standing

845
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:33,239
Speaker 3: rumors of an unreleased collaboration between Michael Jackson and Llo

846
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:36,280
Speaker 3: cool J. That was gossip to which I was not privy.

847
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:38,400
Speaker 2: I just knew who it wasn't. I knew it wasn't Prince.

848
00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:42,400
Speaker 4: I can tell you one person it ain't Paul McCartney.

849
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:47,759
Speaker 3: So fans and industry observers they noted that some of

850
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 3: the tracks on the discovered tapes like had been rumored

851
00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:53,600
Speaker 3: in fan circles or like pieces had been leaked before,

852
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 3: but some had like never even been heard of even

853
00:43:56,760 --> 00:44:02,439
Speaker 3: within like this Hue and the news, the Huey lewis raps.

854
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:07,720
Speaker 2: I heard you and we Are the World?

855
00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:11,040
Speaker 3: And what if? What if we just went up?

856
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:13,880
Speaker 2: You've seen his face when when he starts singing and

857
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:16,160
Speaker 2: the we are the World. Michael like losing.

858
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:23,760
Speaker 3: Because he was amazing. There's a ton of excitement around this. Fine,

859
00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:29,040
Speaker 3: but like legal and rights issues limited the public access

860
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:32,080
Speaker 3: to the music. So Musgrove and his attorney went to

861
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:34,880
Speaker 3: the Michael Jackson estate to like talk it over, and

862
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:38,640
Speaker 3: the estate is like, we're not going to buy them,

863
00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:42,160
Speaker 3: and they said, you may own the physical dat copies,

864
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:46,520
Speaker 3: but the estate retains the copyrights and master recordings in

865
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:49,800
Speaker 3: the vault. And so as a result, the tapes cannot

866
00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:54,840
Speaker 3: be commercially released or publicly shared, and the contents will

867
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:59,719
Speaker 3: remain unheard by the broader public unless future legal arrangements

868
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:02,520
Speaker 3: and are archival releases are made under a state control.

869
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:06,240
Speaker 3: Oh so they exist and no one can.

870
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 2: Hear them, ever hear them, and if we ever hear

871
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:09,319
Speaker 2: that someone heard them. We're going to come after you

872
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:09,640
Speaker 2: with the.

873
00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:14,520
Speaker 3: Lawyers exactly, and so find another storage facility. Buddy, there

874
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:17,400
Speaker 3: it is. So we have the king of pop. What

875
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:21,319
Speaker 3: about the king of the hoboes? Like Tom Waits? Right?

876
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:25,960
Speaker 2: Oh, you know I do old rag and bone himself.

877
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:30,840
Speaker 3: For those unfamiliar, Tom Waits is an American singer, songwriter, actor.

878
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:34,719
Speaker 3: He's known for like gritty character narratives. He has a

879
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:40,200
Speaker 3: stylized Americana sound and that unmistakable gravelly vocal delivery.

880
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:43,000
Speaker 2: Do you know that Heath Ledger based his joker performance

881
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:46,200
Speaker 2: on Tom Waits's like an interview he did in the seventies.

882
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:47,480
Speaker 3: Yes, it's incredible.

883
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:51,280
Speaker 2: So Tom is what I'm saying perfect. No, Heath Ledger,

884
00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:52,120
Speaker 2: I didn't love him.

885
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:52,879
Speaker 3: He was a dude.

886
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 2: He had every like you think about him.

887
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:59,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, Tom Waits he had a long creative partnership with

888
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:04,000
Speaker 3: his lovely Irish wife Kathleen Brennan. Did not know she

889
00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:07,560
Speaker 3: became this like central collaborator as his music grew more

890
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:09,880
Speaker 3: and more experimental from like the eighties onwards.

891
00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:12,719
Speaker 2: You know his daughter, Tom Waye's daughter went to Davis

892
00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:15,200
Speaker 2: You're alma mater, and I had a friend who owned

893
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:17,920
Speaker 2: a record store there and they always would see him

894
00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:21,160
Speaker 2: come in and got He became friends essentially with Tom

895
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:23,560
Speaker 2: Wade because he came into the record store so much

896
00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:26,640
Speaker 2: and people would just leave him alone. He would frequent

897
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:30,160
Speaker 2: a record store in David Armadello record ard music. Oh yeah, okay,

898
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:31,080
Speaker 2: shout out Armadilla.

899
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:35,080
Speaker 3: Wow, that's awesome. So right there, there you go, hometown hero.

900
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:39,200
Speaker 3: So by the early two thousands, Wade had developed this

901
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:43,799
Speaker 3: pattern of making like tightly controlled, self contained projects and

902
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:46,080
Speaker 3: then he would like go quiet for long periods of

903
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:49,839
Speaker 3: time interesting and so that context matters for the album

904
00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:51,800
Speaker 3: and question because it was not just like a stack

905
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:55,400
Speaker 3: of loose ideas. It was the core recorded reference for

906
00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:59,840
Speaker 3: this theater project called Alice and Alice began as a

907
00:46:59,880 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 3: stage work directed by Robert Wilson, produced for Hamburg's Thalia

908
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:07,359
Speaker 3: Theater in nineteen ninety two, and it drew on the

909
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:13,439
Speaker 3: story world around Lewis Carroll and Alice. Liddell. Waits said

910
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:15,799
Speaker 3: an interview that the songs were written around nineteen ninety

911
00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:19,120
Speaker 3: two or nineteen ninety three for this project, and this

912
00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:23,000
Speaker 3: is the period when like working recordings and associated materials

913
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:25,600
Speaker 3: existed as tapes that could be carried around, so it's

914
00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:29,839
Speaker 3: nothing digital. He described the songs as being quote all

915
00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:33,040
Speaker 3: in a briefcase that was kept in the back of

916
00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:33,480
Speaker 3: his car.

917
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:36,160
Speaker 2: And you know it was like a banged up briefcase.

918
00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:37,719
Speaker 3: A banged up briefcase probably in a banged up car,

919
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:42,600
Speaker 3: a belt dart. Yeah. So he framed it as like

920
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:46,400
Speaker 3: a single physical cache of alice material, not like a

921
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:49,279
Speaker 3: scattered set of backups. And he did this interview with

922
00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:52,480
Speaker 3: the av Club and he said plainly that the briefcase

923
00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:54,680
Speaker 3: containing the songs was stolen out of the back of

924
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:58,359
Speaker 3: my car. So that's not in question. What is not

925
00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:01,440
Speaker 3: pinned down in that interview or anywhere else is the

926
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:04,720
Speaker 3: exact date, the exact city, whether the car was broken

927
00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:10,560
Speaker 3: into at a specific venue or like neighborhood he said.

928
00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:15,239
Speaker 3: But he said the thieves ransomed the briefcase and that

929
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:17,200
Speaker 3: he paid a couple of grand to recover it.

930
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:18,640
Speaker 2: Only a couple of grand. Yeah.

931
00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:22,240
Speaker 3: He also describes like the cloak and Dagger style drop

932
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:26,080
Speaker 3: arrangement as happening in a dark cafe. He's like, look,

933
00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:30,640
Speaker 3: I basically yeah, and like he has these like hazy

934
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:33,520
Speaker 3: recollections of how the exchange was staged. It is the

935
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:36,200
Speaker 3: most Tom Waits crime, that.

936
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:39,640
Speaker 2: Empty can of tuna.

937
00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:45,480
Speaker 3: Here's the thing, though, they were the Masters, but Waits

938
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:49,920
Speaker 3: believes that the thieves copied the tapes bootlegs because by

939
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:53,480
Speaker 3: the time the official album emerged, the Alice material had

940
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:57,360
Speaker 3: been circulating his bootlegs for years. Really yeah, bootlegs that

941
00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:00,320
Speaker 3: came out of those stolen Masters. So they searched related

942
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:04,680
Speaker 3: for years because after recovering the Masters, Waits went and

943
00:49:04,719 --> 00:49:07,719
Speaker 3: misplaced them. So he paid a couple of grand to

944
00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:10,200
Speaker 3: get him back, and then he lost him and then

945
00:49:10,360 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 3: he hears about the bootleg.

946
00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:13,480
Speaker 2: Wait, did they really break out his car? Do you

947
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:15,239
Speaker 2: think he left it on top of the car and

948
00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:17,640
Speaker 2: drove out of the parking lot and it just fell

949
00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:18,239
Speaker 2: off car.

950
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:19,960
Speaker 3: So he's like, I can't find him. But then he

951
00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:22,920
Speaker 3: hears about the bootlegs. So he goes on eBay and

952
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:24,680
Speaker 3: he bought a copy of the bootlegs to be like,

953
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:30,359
Speaker 3: what did it sound like it? And so I'll So

954
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:32,480
Speaker 3: then they're like, really, what happened? Well, I stuck him

955
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:33,960
Speaker 3: in a box and I just left him there for

956
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:37,200
Speaker 3: a while. Meanwhile, everyone's listening to the bootlegs and it

957
00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:39,800
Speaker 3: makes me wonder about poor Robert Wilson, who's like waiting

958
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:43,840
Speaker 3: on his theater production. So Waights though he made it

959
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:46,600
Speaker 3: up to him. He recorded another collaboration with him called

960
00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:50,080
Speaker 3: Blood Money, and then he released Alice and Blood Money

961
00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:53,400
Speaker 3: together in two thousand and two. The whole affair is

962
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:57,960
Speaker 3: very Tom Waits hobo esque Underworld muttered flights of Fancy.

963
00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:01,440
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it just like it reeks Sepiotone like Hobo

964
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:02,839
Speaker 2: Bendel like.

965
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:07,319
Speaker 3: So I won more for you Green Day, Oh Ye,

966
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:12,680
Speaker 3: Darlings pop punk rock three piece rock band. My brother

967
00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:15,760
Speaker 3: knows them. I'm like one or two degrees of separation.

968
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:19,160
Speaker 2: I say, you're one if your brother, well, yeah, one time.

969
00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:22,120
Speaker 3: I'm not sure if I've told this story here before.

970
00:50:22,280 --> 00:50:24,440
Speaker 3: If so, forgive me. But one time I was at

971
00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:26,680
Speaker 3: a warehouse party with a friend and we were playing

972
00:50:26,719 --> 00:50:29,880
Speaker 3: foosball and I got partnered up to play with the

973
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:33,440
Speaker 3: drummer Trey Cool and we won the match and turned

974
00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:35,520
Speaker 3: to each other to celebrate and eat. Chest bumped me

975
00:50:36,080 --> 00:50:39,280
Speaker 3: nice and like pushed me across there. It was awkward

976
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:42,040
Speaker 3: but funny. Yeah, no, it's cool anyway. So they came

977
00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:44,400
Speaker 3: on the scene in like the late eighties early nineties.

978
00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:48,319
Speaker 3: Their major label debut was nineteen ninety four's Duchie, and

979
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:50,080
Speaker 3: that meant that they couldn't play Gilman anymore.

980
00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:51,000
Speaker 2: By the way, do you guys win?

981
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:52,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, we totally won.

982
00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:53,799
Speaker 2: I was hoping that was the case. We did test.

983
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:56,319
Speaker 2: That's why the game is done.

984
00:50:56,440 --> 00:50:59,680
Speaker 3: Celebrate good times. Come on, we won, Yeah, although I'm

985
00:50:59,680 --> 00:51:02,879
Speaker 3: not for good. So it was a surprise. Nine two

986
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:06,040
Speaker 3: four Gillmen the punk club, that's where they started out,

987
00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:08,799
Speaker 3: but they don't allow major label bands to play there,

988
00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:10,400
Speaker 3: so they couldn't play anyway.

989
00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:12,279
Speaker 2: And they didn't do like a whole like we'll make

990
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:15,080
Speaker 2: up a band, like we'll be like BC Boys or Quasar.

991
00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:19,400
Speaker 3: They do kind allow that in that sense. No, they

992
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:20,640
Speaker 3: did side projects later.

993
00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:22,480
Speaker 2: I saying, but they wouldn't allow that.

994
00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:26,920
Speaker 3: No, they're too sincere. So by the early two thousands,

995
00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:30,520
Speaker 3: Green Day they're this like established major label band. They're

996
00:51:30,520 --> 00:51:33,680
Speaker 3: playing arenas all that stuff. They had pulled a few

997
00:51:33,719 --> 00:51:38,440
Speaker 3: stylistic left turns. They evolved, they experimented, they explored, They

998
00:51:38,520 --> 00:51:42,319
Speaker 3: explored each other's bodies. I know, I can't help it.

999
00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:47,680
Speaker 2: If it's not a leaky body thing, it's something creepy. Yeah,

1000
00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:49,879
Speaker 2: weird body insinuation thing.

1001
00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:54,120
Speaker 3: So they released an album called Warning in two thousand

1002
00:51:54,640 --> 00:51:56,960
Speaker 3: and Warning wasn't really a punk album per se. I

1003
00:51:57,000 --> 00:51:59,160
Speaker 3: don't remember that, although there are arguments to be made

1004
00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:01,360
Speaker 3: that they hadn't been made making punk albums for a while.

1005
00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:04,200
Speaker 3: It had a bunch of acoustic stuff. It was like

1006
00:52:04,239 --> 00:52:06,719
Speaker 3: a little more optimistic in the lyrics, like you were

1007
00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:07,879
Speaker 3: mad at mom and dad?

1008
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:09,680
Speaker 2: Did you listen to I've heard it?

1009
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:10,000
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1010
00:52:10,560 --> 00:52:12,200
Speaker 2: Was it something that you would drive around listening to?

1011
00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:15,280
Speaker 3: Not necessarily not in two thousands, Okay, I was just curious.

1012
00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:16,799
Speaker 3: I don't know. I mean I was listening to different

1013
00:52:16,840 --> 00:52:17,319
Speaker 3: stuff then.

1014
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:19,280
Speaker 2: Of course, yes, you branched out.

1015
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:22,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, moved on. You know, I appreciate them. I wasn't

1016
00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:23,720
Speaker 3: ever like a huge fan.

1017
00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:24,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I get that.

1018
00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:29,640
Speaker 3: Yeah. So the album Warning didn't do so well. It

1019
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:33,160
Speaker 3: was their first major label record to not go multi platinum.

1020
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:33,680
Speaker 2: Oh wow.

1021
00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:36,399
Speaker 3: And from what I understand though, they didn't care. They

1022
00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:38,480
Speaker 3: were happy with it, but they knew they were at

1023
00:52:38,520 --> 00:52:42,400
Speaker 3: a crossroads. So both singer Billy Joe Armstrong and bass

1024
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:45,200
Speaker 3: player Mike Dirt they had side projects that were more

1025
00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:49,719
Speaker 3: punk oriented. Billy Joe had Pinhead Gunpowder, Mike had a

1026
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:53,960
Speaker 3: band called The Frustrators, which included my friend Terry Nice

1027
00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:57,319
Speaker 3: and whose album has backing vocals by none other than

1028
00:52:57,520 --> 00:52:59,839
Speaker 3: living legend Sarah TACIONI.

1029
00:52:59,640 --> 00:53:00,600
Speaker 2: Really your friend.

1030
00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:03,760
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, we go full circle here. But those bands

1031
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:05,399
Speaker 3: allowed them to play Gilman, so.

1032
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:08,319
Speaker 2: You're like one degree away from the Frustrators too.

1033
00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:14,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, pretty much everything. So Green Day they they're like,

1034
00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:16,799
Speaker 3: we got to write a new album. Let's do this.

1035
00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:21,440
Speaker 3: So they brought in longtime producer Rob Cavallo, and they

1036
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:26,359
Speaker 3: wanted like a quicker, more straightforward punk direction, and they

1037
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:30,319
Speaker 3: called the working title for the album was Cigarettes and Valentines,

1038
00:53:30,920 --> 00:53:33,200
Speaker 3: which is such an early two thousands East Bay rock

1039
00:53:33,239 --> 00:53:34,040
Speaker 3: album title.

1040
00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:37,920
Speaker 2: Anyway, So to just nail all of the nail right.

1041
00:53:40,640 --> 00:53:43,839
Speaker 3: So recording sessions for the album took place like two

1042
00:53:43,840 --> 00:53:47,040
Speaker 3: thousand and two, two thousand and three. The project was

1043
00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:51,120
Speaker 3: like far along, and some said it was nearly complete

1044
00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:54,800
Speaker 3: or at least like album length in scope. The songs

1045
00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:57,920
Speaker 3: were tracked and assembled at Studio eight eighty in Oakland.

1046
00:53:58,200 --> 00:53:58,720
Speaker 2: That's theirs.

1047
00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:00,440
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, Green Day would go on to buy the

1048
00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:03,759
Speaker 3: place in twenty twelve and rename it Jingletown Recording after

1049
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:05,719
Speaker 3: the neighborhood it's in and then they sold it a

1050
00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:08,440
Speaker 3: few years later. I think it's called Studio eight eighty Again.

1051
00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:12,440
Speaker 3: I called my brother. He said the band has their

1052
00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:14,880
Speaker 3: own smaller studio now, but he refused to tell me

1053
00:54:14,880 --> 00:54:20,319
Speaker 3: where in Oakland it is. He's a solid guy. He

1054
00:54:20,520 --> 00:54:22,600
Speaker 3: was like, what do you want? Why? Why are you asking?

1055
00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:24,759
Speaker 2: I was curious, Man Punk Solidarity.

1056
00:54:25,360 --> 00:54:29,239
Speaker 3: So the band had everything tracked and assembled and they

1057
00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:32,400
Speaker 3: fully expected the material to become their next official release.

1058
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:35,960
Speaker 3: And the title track, Cigarettes and Valentines, which like, it's

1059
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:39,719
Speaker 3: such like a murder city devil's type, which is one

1060
00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:42,080
Speaker 3: of the best bands in my opinion I have heard

1061
00:54:42,120 --> 00:54:48,680
Speaker 3: of anyhow, So it was central to the project's identity,

1062
00:54:48,719 --> 00:54:52,480
Speaker 3: this title track. And sometime in two thousand and three,

1063
00:54:52,600 --> 00:54:56,520
Speaker 3: the recordings disappeared, and the band has consistently said that

1064
00:54:56,560 --> 00:55:00,880
Speaker 3: the master recordings were stolen from the studio, which like

1065
00:55:00,960 --> 00:55:03,640
Speaker 3: it's Studio eight eighties, and the could it's in a

1066
00:55:03,640 --> 00:55:07,600
Speaker 3: bad neighborhood, but it's like it's so fenced off, like

1067
00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:14,719
Speaker 3: it's like a Strongholderah completely, So public statements never identified

1068
00:55:14,719 --> 00:55:18,840
Speaker 3: a suspect, a precise date, the exact mechanism of the loss.

1069
00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:24,680
Speaker 3: Outsider right What is clear from like multiple later interviews

1070
00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:27,400
Speaker 3: is that when they realized that the material was gone,

1071
00:55:28,040 --> 00:55:31,160
Speaker 3: they treated it as irretrievable. So they weren't like Gem

1072
00:55:31,200 --> 00:55:34,120
Speaker 3: in the Holograms, like let's hunt this down where let

1073
00:55:34,200 --> 00:55:38,759
Speaker 3: me speak with Chibbette. There's never been a confirmation of

1074
00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:42,800
Speaker 3: a police report. They never publicly detailed whether it involved

1075
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:48,319
Speaker 3: physical tapes, hard drives, other storage the story and they

1076
00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:51,120
Speaker 3: just left it on the roof with Tom Waits and stuff.

1077
00:55:51,880 --> 00:55:54,760
Speaker 3: It entered Green Day lore simply as quote the album

1078
00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:57,000
Speaker 3: that got stolen, like it's just referred to as ad.

1079
00:55:59,320 --> 00:56:01,879
Speaker 3: So the dis appearance of the tapes set in motion

1080
00:56:02,200 --> 00:56:06,320
Speaker 3: like serious reassessment inside the band. So instead of attempting

1081
00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:09,200
Speaker 3: to re record it from scratch like their Paul McCartney,

1082
00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:13,200
Speaker 3: they decided that they had there was no Linda, that

1083
00:56:13,280 --> 00:56:16,399
Speaker 3: was the problem. They decided that the loss was an

1084
00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:20,040
Speaker 3: opportunity to start over completely. And so in later interviews,

1085
00:56:20,040 --> 00:56:23,760
Speaker 3: oh yeah, they said that it was the stolen album

1086
00:56:23,840 --> 00:56:28,600
Speaker 3: was like competent but uninspiring, and then Billy Joe later

1087
00:56:28,719 --> 00:56:31,080
Speaker 3: has said it was just like this strange blessing to

1088
00:56:31,120 --> 00:56:34,080
Speaker 3: have it stolen. It forced them to abandon it. The

1089
00:56:34,200 --> 00:56:36,759
Speaker 3: stuff that they no longer fully believed in. So they

1090
00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:40,080
Speaker 3: started a new project, and that project became the rock

1091
00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:44,080
Speaker 3: opera American Idiot. I was wondering, Yeah, that timing. So

1092
00:56:44,120 --> 00:56:47,640
Speaker 3: they're free from like the gravitational pull of this lost album.

1093
00:56:48,120 --> 00:56:52,320
Speaker 3: They develop a politically charged rock opera that redefined their career.

1094
00:56:52,400 --> 00:56:54,400
Speaker 2: Totally gave him a point of view.

1095
00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:58,799
Speaker 3: And so basically, the theft of Cigarettes and Valentine's is

1096
00:56:58,800 --> 00:57:00,000
Speaker 3: like the best thing that ever happened.

1097
00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:00,759
Speaker 2: Sounds like it.

1098
00:57:01,080 --> 00:57:04,799
Speaker 3: The material itself has obviously never been officially released, and

1099
00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:09,520
Speaker 3: the full contents of Cigarettes and Valentine's is unknown. The

1100
00:57:09,560 --> 00:57:12,040
Speaker 3: title song has come up in live performances and it

1101
00:57:12,120 --> 00:57:15,240
Speaker 3: later was on a live album, so like some of it,

1102
00:57:15,320 --> 00:57:19,120
Speaker 3: you know, survived in memory or maybe alternative forms for them.

1103
00:57:19,560 --> 00:57:21,800
Speaker 3: And over the years, band members have like hinted that

1104
00:57:21,880 --> 00:57:24,640
Speaker 3: fragments or ideas from the abandoned sessions may have been

1105
00:57:24,680 --> 00:57:28,720
Speaker 3: recycled into later songs. Personally, I wonder if this is

1106
00:57:28,760 --> 00:57:33,640
Speaker 3: purely lore, was there even a completed album. I've made

1107
00:57:33,680 --> 00:57:37,120
Speaker 3: some inquiries of insiders, some of my degrees of separation,

1108
00:57:37,240 --> 00:57:40,960
Speaker 3: but no one knows anything, which I find I find

1109
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:43,240
Speaker 3: it suspicious. So is Aaron, what's your ridiculous takeaway?

1110
00:57:43,840 --> 00:57:45,520
Speaker 2: Well, to bring a full circle to one of your

1111
00:57:45,560 --> 00:57:51,520
Speaker 2: earlier points, I would say, embrace impermanence, and good things,

1112
00:57:51,560 --> 00:57:55,680
Speaker 2: great things, possibly even genius can come about then of

1113
00:57:55,760 --> 00:57:59,360
Speaker 2: embracing impermanence, because that's all we are. So you really

1114
00:57:59,400 --> 00:58:02,680
Speaker 2: just acknowledging the nature of existence. And as a creative person,

1115
00:58:02,760 --> 00:58:05,400
Speaker 2: you got to do that. It will ground you, ironically

1116
00:58:05,800 --> 00:58:09,480
Speaker 2: in something that really lasts and matters. So embracing permanence,

1117
00:58:09,520 --> 00:58:11,160
Speaker 2: you lose something that's meant to be lost. That kind

1118
00:58:11,160 --> 00:58:12,360
Speaker 2: of thought exactly.

1119
00:58:12,920 --> 00:58:16,080
Speaker 3: The same thing. I think that you can't hang on

1120
00:58:16,160 --> 00:58:18,760
Speaker 3: too tightly to stuff and like, yeah, there you're talking about,

1121
00:58:18,800 --> 00:58:21,760
Speaker 3: like when you lose notes for things, there's a magic

1122
00:58:21,800 --> 00:58:25,600
Speaker 3: that can't be regained. But I think that being open

1123
00:58:25,640 --> 00:58:30,120
Speaker 3: to having something even better creatively coming along, And I

1124
00:58:30,120 --> 00:58:32,160
Speaker 3: think the Green Day one is the best example. So

1125
00:58:32,240 --> 00:58:34,600
Speaker 3: you have something that, like I was saying, sounded like

1126
00:58:34,720 --> 00:58:38,120
Speaker 3: all the other albums around at the time, and then

1127
00:58:38,400 --> 00:58:41,200
Speaker 3: they get to totally reimagine it and change their course

1128
00:58:41,240 --> 00:58:44,360
Speaker 3: and change what they do, and you know, you got

1129
00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:46,720
Speaker 3: to respect that. I think it's a huge brave thing

1130
00:58:46,760 --> 00:58:51,840
Speaker 3: to do too, you know, So anyway, I think I

1131
00:58:51,880 --> 00:59:05,080
Speaker 3: need to talk back. I totally do go. I went cheat.

1132
00:59:08,360 --> 00:59:12,840
Speaker 5: Zaren Elizabeth, thank you. That show with the Love Triangle

1133
00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:15,360
Speaker 5: with Frank Sinatra inspired me to talk to you guys.

1134
00:59:15,360 --> 00:59:18,200
Speaker 5: That was hilarious. One thing that I've been wanting to

1135
00:59:18,560 --> 00:59:20,880
Speaker 5: tell you guys, and I've been a bit hesitant because

1136
00:59:20,880 --> 00:59:23,919
Speaker 5: I hate that, is that you told the story about

1137
00:59:23,920 --> 00:59:27,560
Speaker 5: the boy in Melbourne who trashed you know that the

1138
00:59:27,640 --> 00:59:31,479
Speaker 5: party that suburb was called Nary Warren. Just thought i'd

1139
00:59:31,840 --> 00:59:34,920
Speaker 5: say that anyway. Thank you so much, love the show.

1140
00:59:35,320 --> 00:59:35,880
Speaker 3: See you guys.

1141
00:59:35,920 --> 00:59:36,240
Speaker 2: Bye.

1142
00:59:37,040 --> 00:59:40,760
Speaker 5: I forgot to mention my name. It's Jeffrey living in

1143
00:59:40,800 --> 00:59:44,160
Speaker 5: Melbourne as an expat, the guy with the message about

1144
00:59:44,320 --> 00:59:50,800
Speaker 5: Nary Warren and loving the the Love Triangle with thing

1145
00:59:50,880 --> 00:59:53,440
Speaker 5: Frank Sinatra, Ava Gardner and.

1146
00:59:55,400 --> 00:59:58,920
Speaker 3: Howard Hughes. Thank you, Jeffrey, Thank you.

1147
00:59:59,040 --> 01:00:01,480
Speaker 2: Expect Jeffrey and I I gotta say you will hear

1148
01:00:01,600 --> 01:00:06,720
Speaker 2: me do two things. Sometimes I will like pronounce something

1149
01:00:06,760 --> 01:00:09,720
Speaker 2: correctly once and then later on mispronounce it later on

1150
01:00:09,800 --> 01:00:12,360
Speaker 2: the very same episode. So sometimes it's just like I

1151
01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:15,320
Speaker 2: get excited and I'm just whatever. Other times I don't

1152
01:00:15,360 --> 01:00:17,080
Speaker 2: know how to pronounce it, and I can't find something

1153
01:00:17,120 --> 01:00:19,400
Speaker 2: on YouTube or somewhere else, they can tell me. In

1154
01:00:19,640 --> 01:00:23,160
Speaker 2: towns in Australia often happen to fall into that category.

1155
01:00:23,360 --> 01:00:25,720
Speaker 2: And then also, Jeffrey, if you are an expat, isn't

1156
01:00:25,760 --> 01:00:26,480
Speaker 2: it Melbourne?

1157
01:00:26,880 --> 01:00:30,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, Burn, I'm just kidding.

1158
01:00:30,680 --> 01:00:32,360
Speaker 2: I would never do that to you, but I'm glad

1159
01:00:32,600 --> 01:00:35,320
Speaker 2: that you enjoyed the episode, and thanks for the talk back.

1160
01:00:35,320 --> 01:00:36,040
Speaker 2: That's a brother.

1161
01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:37,960
Speaker 3: I can't say anything correctly.

1162
01:00:38,200 --> 01:00:41,240
Speaker 2: I can't say anything rast.

1163
01:00:40,920 --> 01:00:43,920
Speaker 3: To like hurt people's feelings. But also, you know, my

1164
01:00:44,040 --> 01:00:48,040
Speaker 3: last name, Dutton is so straightforward, and I get called

1165
01:00:48,080 --> 01:00:51,560
Speaker 3: button and like Sutton and you know what, I don't care.

1166
01:00:52,200 --> 01:00:54,840
Speaker 2: Oh my name is Zaren. You better believe I've heard

1167
01:00:54,880 --> 01:00:56,760
Speaker 2: a million different ways. When people have to read it

1168
01:00:56,800 --> 01:00:57,680
Speaker 2: and they don't know what it is.

1169
01:00:57,760 --> 01:01:00,880
Speaker 3: I can see them in the comments on Instagram. No

1170
01:01:00,920 --> 01:01:01,200
Speaker 3: one knows.

1171
01:01:01,200 --> 01:01:04,240
Speaker 2: That is five letters, and it's very similar to other

1172
01:01:04,320 --> 01:01:06,680
Speaker 2: names you've said, like Aaron with a Z, but they're

1173
01:01:06,720 --> 01:01:12,040
Speaker 2: like zoron zero ronever.

1174
01:01:12,320 --> 01:01:14,200
Speaker 3: We're all trying the best we can. That's what I'm

1175
01:01:14,200 --> 01:01:17,080
Speaker 3: trying to say. That's it for today. You can find

1176
01:01:17,120 --> 01:01:20,240
Speaker 3: us online at Ridiculous Crime dot com. We're also at

1177
01:01:20,320 --> 01:01:24,160
Speaker 3: Ridiculous Crime on Blue Sky, on Instagram. We're on YouTube

1178
01:01:24,160 --> 01:01:27,880
Speaker 3: at Ridiculous Crime pod. Email us Ridiculous Crime at gmail

1179
01:01:27,920 --> 01:01:32,400
Speaker 3: dot com. Leave a talkback on the iHeart app. Please

1180
01:01:32,440 --> 01:01:34,360
Speaker 3: don't leave one to tell me I've said something wrong

1181
01:01:34,360 --> 01:01:35,960
Speaker 3: because it was just too many.

1182
01:01:36,320 --> 01:01:39,400
Speaker 2: You can tell me because I know who I am

1183
01:01:39,440 --> 01:01:40,160
Speaker 2: and how I know.

1184
01:01:41,480 --> 01:01:49,840
Speaker 3: Reach Out. Ridiculous Crime is hosted by Elizabeth Dutton and

1185
01:01:49,920 --> 01:01:53,360
Speaker 3: Zaren Burnett, produced and edited by studio engineer for All

1186
01:01:53,400 --> 01:01:57,560
Speaker 3: the Best Selene Dion Records, Dave Kusten, starring Analys Rutger

1187
01:01:57,680 --> 01:02:01,200
Speaker 3: as Judith. Research is by Nigeria and Audio Tape Fence

1188
01:02:01,280 --> 01:02:05,120
Speaker 3: Marissa Brown and Tom Waits bootlegger Jabarie Davis. The theme

1189
01:02:05,200 --> 01:02:08,040
Speaker 3: song is by Load Bearing Wall of Sound mixers Thomas

1190
01:02:08,080 --> 01:02:11,480
Speaker 3: Lee and Travis Dutton. Post wardrobe is provided by Botany

1191
01:02:11,480 --> 01:02:15,120
Speaker 3: five hundred guests here and makeup by Sparkleshot and mister Andre.

1192
01:02:15,520 --> 01:02:18,840
Speaker 3: Executive producers are I Rate Studio head Ben Bolan and

1193
01:02:19,000 --> 01:02:30,040
Speaker 3: Royalties Calculator Noel Brown dis Clime Say It One More

1194
01:02:30,120 --> 01:02:31,960
Speaker 3: Time Cry.

1195
01:02:33,080 --> 01:02:36,440
Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio. Four more podcasts

1196
01:02:36,560 --> 01:02:39,720
Speaker 1: my Heart Radio. Visit the iHeartRadio app Apple podcasts, or

1197
01:02:39,720 --> 01:02:41,520
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.