Speaker 1: You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Girl. Hi, everyone,
Speaker 1: welcome to I Choose Me. This podcast is all about
Speaker 1: the choices we make, and today I'm sitting down with
Speaker 1: someone who has made a lifetime of powerful choices, both
Speaker 1: in front of the camera and far beyond it. If
Speaker 1: you grew up watching Little House on the Prairie, like
Speaker 1: I did, you already know the impact Melissa Gilbert has
Speaker 1: had on generations of women. But today I have the
Speaker 1: privilege to talk with the real woman behind Laura Ingalls,
Speaker 1: who was and is such a role model for me,
Speaker 1: both as a young actor and now as a businesswoman
Speaker 1: and industry leader. Trust me, she is a powerhouse. Melissa.
Speaker 1: I'm so excited that you are here. Why is Okay?
Speaker 1: First of all, I understand that you have or may
Speaker 1: have had a rooster named Fauci.
Speaker 2: We did, We got we got our first batch of
Speaker 2: chickens and our rooster who we named Fauci in twenty twenty.
Speaker 1: Okay, and yeah, that is so crazy. I have to
Speaker 1: show you a picture. I have a dog named Fauci.
Speaker 1: Here's to see how much he like doctor Fauci.
Speaker 2: I do see that, Yes, I do see that.
Speaker 1: Pandemic. Here's here's another angle. Oh my god.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no, even more so.
Speaker 1: That one's almost better.
Speaker 2: So good.
Speaker 1: I don't know if I named him because it was
Speaker 1: the pandemic and all I was hearing was doctor Fauji
Speaker 1: Faudi Fauchi Bauchi. But I really one day just looked
Speaker 1: into my dog's eyes and thought, oh my god, you
Speaker 1: look like Fauci and that's his name. Now do you
Speaker 1: think he ever expected to be having pets named after him?
Speaker 2: I don't you know what I would imagine compared to
Speaker 2: the other things that have been after him.
Speaker 1: That good point. Good point. Okay, So obviously, since you
Speaker 1: have chickens, you are out of LA. I'm so jealous.
Speaker 1: What was the decision for you to get the heck
Speaker 1: out of Dodge? How did you come to choose that
Speaker 1: big change in your life?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I left LA quite a while ago when I
Speaker 2: married my husband, Tim Bussfield. When we met, he was
Speaker 2: he had moved back to his home state of Michigan,
Speaker 2: and so when we met, that's where he was living.
Speaker 2: And when he told me that, I said, that's great.
Speaker 2: Please get me out of LA.
Speaker 1: Oh nice.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have to go somewhere I can age, and that.
Speaker 1: So pathetic that we have to move from our homeland.
Speaker 2: I know, to eight Justine. So we moved to Michigan.
Speaker 2: We were there for five years and it was amazing.
Speaker 2: It was so different and peaceful and grounding, and you know,
Speaker 2: the beginning of a marriage to have that time together.
Speaker 2: And our kids are grown, so we only had one
Speaker 2: at home still just for a little while. So it
Speaker 2: was a really great kind of honeymoon period. But it
Speaker 2: was also a really great time for me to really
Speaker 2: kind of land into my own skin. We were there
Speaker 2: for those five years, and when those five years were up,
Speaker 2: you know, we started doing this thing where we would say,
Speaker 2: what do you want to do this weekend? Let's go
Speaker 2: to New York. Where do you want to where do
Speaker 2: you want to go have dinner? Somewhere in New York
Speaker 2: And so we started leaning towards New York again. And
Speaker 2: we went to New York City and had rented them
Speaker 2: like an Airbnb, a Verbo for a month or so
Speaker 2: just to kind of feel things out. And I got
Speaker 2: a play oh yeah, which was really really fun. And
Speaker 2: so we made the decision to move to New York.
Speaker 2: So when we moved to the city, the first thing
Speaker 2: we said is we need air and space. We started
Speaker 2: looking for property in the Catskills and we found where
Speaker 2: I am now this what was a kind of beaten
Speaker 2: down old hunting cabin, seasonal, no heat. It was so
Speaker 2: bad that when we would leave the place, we would
Speaker 2: have to drain the water out so the pipes wouldn't explode.
Speaker 2: And we renovated, as you could see. We put in heat,
Speaker 2: we insulated, we put in new plumbing, and it was
Speaker 2: ready for us to enjoy in December of twenty nineteen.
Speaker 2: So on March thirteenth, twenty twenty, when everyone locked down,
Speaker 2: we came up here and everything flipped and this became
Speaker 2: home nice and this scene is now the place we
Speaker 2: go for theater, doctors and sushi, basically perfect.
Speaker 1: They have a lot of all of those.
Speaker 2: Things, Yes they do. They have quite a few. And
Speaker 2: you know, since we've been up here, now we've now
Speaker 2: bought the land next door. So now we have forty acres.
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're starting to develop that. We have our second
Speaker 2: batch of chickens. We have a lot of wildlife up here.
Speaker 2: We lost we had a terrible incident with a raccoon
Speaker 2: a few weeks ago, so.
Speaker 1: I think I heard about on your Instagram. I feel
Speaker 1: your pain. They just come in and kill things, rip
Speaker 1: them apart, and leave them.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I actually had one do that in my house,
Speaker 2: my last house in La in Tarzana, in the flats
Speaker 2: at dusk while I was in the ark, jumped the fence,
Speaker 2: killed one of my dogs in front of me, and left.
Speaker 2: Oh it was horrible.
Speaker 1: They're they're they're so cute, but they're so awful.
Speaker 2: They're just jerk.
Speaker 1: They're just little demons, they really are. We have we
Speaker 1: have bad experiences with raccoons people.
Speaker 2: Sorry, Yeah, I know. Yeah, And I worked with one
Speaker 2: on little house when I was a kid, and I
Speaker 2: loved that one. But that was a trained hand fed
Speaker 2: oh baby raccoon.
Speaker 1: Do you think that little, trained handfeld baby could ever
Speaker 1: turn on you and just like lash out?
Speaker 2: Oh sure, I mean they're wild any wild animal, they're
Speaker 2: wild animals. I I just I can't imagine that, you know,
Speaker 2: they don't want to do that. So consequently, now I'm
Speaker 2: I have five chicks in the living room in a
Speaker 2: bruder that I'm andrewising. Now, So that's that's what.
Speaker 1: You are living my dream life. I just want to
Speaker 1: say that you've gotten out of LA you're living with
Speaker 1: your third husband. High I'm my third husband, and it
Speaker 1: sounds like your life is amazing.
Speaker 2: But it's great.
Speaker 1: The animals and the nature. I'm really jealous, but I'm happy,
Speaker 1: but I'm jealous.
Speaker 2: Thank you. It's really magical up here, and I have there.
Speaker 2: There are a couple of deer that come around every
Speaker 2: day that come for apples, and they've been visiting now
Speaker 2: for a year. And then I had one. I had
Speaker 2: a third one that had been visiting that just came
Speaker 2: back with a baby. And we've got gorgeous breath taking
Speaker 2: eagles up here and all kinds of fun things like.
Speaker 1: Bigs, bears, Oh my, oh my, no, why in deepa
Speaker 1: I have? I have a question to ask you then,
Speaker 1: because you sound like mother nature herself what I have.
Speaker 1: Yesterday I was watering my roses and I saw a
Speaker 1: deer that had been there the day before, and she
Speaker 1: just stands there and like watches guard. So I thought, okay,
Speaker 1: that's a mommy and she's watching guard from the coyotes
Speaker 1: so if they don't get her baby. Then I saw
Speaker 1: her kind of go into this brushy area and then
Speaker 1: she came out with a baby, a tiny little fawn
Speaker 1: with the dots on it. Still it was barely walking,
Speaker 1: and Melissa, I was so happy. But then my happiness
Speaker 1: crashed because I noticed that the baby had a broken leg.
Speaker 1: It has a broken leg. It couldn't it couldn't keep
Speaker 1: up with her, and she would go far ahead, and
Speaker 1: he would try and try, and finally he was like
Speaker 1: hobbling and he kept following her. But if I see
Speaker 1: them again, should I take that baby deer to the vet?
Speaker 2: It's very very hard. I learned this because I've I
Speaker 2: actually picked a deer up off the road, a fawn
Speaker 2: off the road that had been hit by a car,
Speaker 2: and it didn't survive. But they they're very very delicate,
Speaker 2: and any kind of trauma they have, they have sort
Speaker 2: of an instinctive reaction where their bodies just start to
Speaker 2: shut down. So capturing the baby deer might even be
Speaker 2: more traumatic. I would what, I there are deer people
Speaker 2: all around, they're deer rescues. I'm there all over La too,
Speaker 2: and L like.
Speaker 1: This is sounds like a better idea than me trying
Speaker 1: to scale the mountain to save the deep baby deer.
Speaker 2: I would call a specifically a deer rescue and explain
Speaker 2: what's going on because that baby, the mom's probably going
Speaker 2: to reject it at some point and it's going to
Speaker 2: eat formula, milk care hydration. They're just they're really fragile.
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm going to do that right after this podcast.
Speaker 1: Thank you for your advice. Well, let's talk about relationships
Speaker 1: for a second. Like you said, you're married to Timothy Busfield.
Speaker 1: He's your third husband. He was in obviously Everybody, he
Speaker 1: was in thirty something, West Wing just a name too.
Speaker 1: This guy has worked forever. What a great actor.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Really, and you've talked about marriage. I love when I
Speaker 1: have somebody on my podcast that, you know, I find
Speaker 1: these synchronicities with in our lives, even though we've never
Speaker 1: really hung out and we've never really known each other.
Speaker 1: I know. It's so cool because you said that he
Speaker 1: is your healing and stabilizing chapter.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true. There's there's a groundedness to this marriage
Speaker 2: of ours and a comfort level. And I think it's
Speaker 2: part and parcel of the fact that it's a partnership
Speaker 2: that we do everything with the other one in mind,
Speaker 2: and we are very considerate of one another extreamly. We
Speaker 2: respect each other immensely, and so there are no decisions
Speaker 2: that are made singularly. Everything is discussed shared, and there's
Speaker 2: so much comfort in that, and it's so much gentler
Speaker 2: and easier. And he is just a really spiritual, grounded,
Speaker 2: easygoing guy. I mean, you know, we all have our moments,
Speaker 2: but there's so few and far between with both of us.
Speaker 2: Even our arguments are constructive. Okay, good, Yeah, which is
Speaker 2: new for me. You know, arguing for me was for
Speaker 2: a long large part of my life something to be
Speaker 2: afraid of and then something that I did really badly.
Speaker 2: Once I found my voice, I picked too many fights
Speaker 2: just to have them. And and now our arguments are
Speaker 2: are I mean, when we have them, they're you know,
Speaker 2: they can get they can get really heated, but we
Speaker 2: usually end up laugh and then sitting down and talking
Speaker 2: it through and it never lasts for more than a
Speaker 2: couple hours. Max.
Speaker 1: What did you guys meet?
Speaker 2: Well, we actually first met many many, many many years
Speaker 2: ago in the eighties, and then we re met in
Speaker 2: the nineties and then now we've been together for thirtyteen years.
Speaker 1: Wow. Wow, Wow, that's incredible. Congrats, Wow.
Speaker 2: Thanks.
Speaker 1: Do you think that each of your marriages was made
Speaker 1: for the moment that you are that you were in.
Speaker 2: No, yeah, absolutely, I think it fit with who I
Speaker 2: was at that time and with whatever was going on
Speaker 2: in my own Not to get too cycling, but healing
Speaker 2: journey from you know, the trauma of the family of
Speaker 2: origin stuff in childhood. And you know, as as time
Speaker 2: has gone by, I think I've I've become just more healed,
Speaker 2: which it's more grounded and a lot less dysfunctional. Maybe.
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, I'm always going to be a banana.
Speaker 2: I mean that's just there's no there's no why. I
Speaker 2: love you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm the best banana spirit ever.
Speaker 2: I'm a carneie. You know, we we've grown up in
Speaker 2: this business. I've grown up in it, my multi generational
Speaker 2: family has, and so you know, I will jump to
Speaker 2: jazz hands given any opportunity. But I've learned how to
Speaker 2: set boundaries. I've learned how to hold those boundaries, and
Speaker 2: I've learned the most important thing, I think, and it's
Speaker 2: come later in life, is real patience.
Speaker 1: It seems like we learned so much in after our fifties.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I think that's that's valid, and I think
Speaker 2: that it's a really important time, especially for women. Because
Speaker 2: all of that other stuff is sort of out of
Speaker 2: the way. Our bodies are. Yeah, they're doing things, but
Speaker 2: they're not doing the same thing that drive to work
Speaker 2: or have kids and the hormones and that that sort
Speaker 2: of push is gone, at least for me. There's a
Speaker 2: there's a more of a relaxedness and more of an ease.
Speaker 2: And uh, it takes a lot to ruffle me these
Speaker 2: days too. You know, I just don't. I don't. I
Speaker 2: don't give up. It's as I was gonna say, fuck,
Speaker 2: I fully.
Speaker 1: Fully feel you you know what I mean, Like I
Speaker 1: I'm not interested in arguing. I'm not interested in wasting
Speaker 1: any of more of my precious time doing things that
Speaker 1: don't make me happy or make people around me happy exactly.
Speaker 2: You know, there's some validity to the Marie condo and
Speaker 2: sparking joy. If it doesn't spark joy for anybody, then
Speaker 2: there's no point. There's no and tiny talk and going
Speaker 2: to things you don't want to go to if you
Speaker 2: don't have to, doing things you don't want to do
Speaker 2: if you don't have to. You know, this is the
Speaker 2: last third of our lives, and I think we have
Speaker 2: earned the right to live at the way we choose to.
Speaker 2: We've earned the right to our opinions and our ideas,
Speaker 2: and that deserves some respect. Just the fact that we're here, productive, vital,
Speaker 2: vibrant women.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean sometimes I'll look at myself and the
Speaker 1: maryor and I'll think, wow, you did it. You kept
Speaker 1: yourself alive, and you kept three little kids alive. You're
Speaker 1: doing all right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's amazing. And then when the grandkids come.
Speaker 1: Wait, that's how many grand kids you have?
Speaker 2: We have nine?
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's a lot.
Speaker 2: Well, we have a lot of kids all together. We
Speaker 2: have seven. I have four boys, and Tim has two
Speaker 2: boys and a girl whoa. And then one of our
Speaker 2: boys married a woman who already had three grown boys,
Speaker 2: so those became like big boys. And then there's all
Speaker 2: the littles. I mean, the littlest one is just over
Speaker 2: a year, probably closer to exteen months of yea, yeah, me, oh,
Speaker 2: they are they are. I I can't wait. It's so
Speaker 2: great to have little people like that around. And I've
Speaker 2: made it very clear to all of the kids that
Speaker 2: my job is to say yes, so don't expect me
Speaker 2: to ever say no. Nana does not say no. I
Speaker 2: say to everything Nanna. That's Nana.
Speaker 1: That's so cute. I can't wait to be a nana.
Speaker 2: It's really good. It's really good. Actually, they've all the
Speaker 2: kids kind of call me different things. Nana is one
Speaker 2: chunk of the kids, and then the other there's another
Speaker 2: whole section of them that call me Granny Mel.
Speaker 1: Granny Mel, Nana and Granny. Those are winners.
Speaker 2: It's so good, so good.
Speaker 1: You and I both had our earliest relationships in the spotlight. It's,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, hard enough to navigate a relationship when you're
Speaker 1: young like that without Hollywood, but you were with Robblo,
Speaker 1: who they were both on a path to fame and celebrity.
Speaker 1: Talk to me about that and what you learned about
Speaker 1: yourself through that.
Speaker 2: I guess looking back on that those six years, I mean,
Speaker 2: I was such a baby when Rob and I were together.
Speaker 1: We're six seventeen, right.
Speaker 2: Seventeen, and we broke up for the last time when
Speaker 2: we were twenty three, and it was very tumultuous, you know,
Speaker 2: it was. There was a lot of I felt like
Speaker 2: a bit of an old stage in the business at
Speaker 2: that point because I'd been doing it for so long
Speaker 2: and I was still on the little house on the
Speaker 2: Prairie when we met, and it had already you know,
Speaker 2: had been years and he was sort of starting out.
Speaker 2: He'd done a little bit of television, and so I
Speaker 2: was able to sort of sit back and watch this
Speaker 2: meteoric rise happen. I don't think I think I was
Speaker 2: prepared for the stuff they came with it. Necessarily. I
Speaker 2: was prepared for all of the like having to go
Speaker 2: to premieres and things and award shows and all of that,
Speaker 2: but I wasn't prepared for the fandom and frankly, the
Speaker 2: girls and that sort of you know. To me, I
Speaker 2: always thought that every every girl and woman was my sister.
Speaker 2: We were sisters, we you know, but it was not
Speaker 2: evident at all when when I were a couple. I mean,
Speaker 2: it was like I didn't exist. They just pushed right
Speaker 2: past me and stick phone numbers in his pockets and stuff.
Speaker 2: And that was to say. It was disconcerting. Is doing
Speaker 2: it doing it a big disservice? It was and horrible.
Speaker 2: I think I learned a lot about what didn't work
Speaker 2: for me actually, and what I wouldn't stand for later on.
Speaker 1: Those are some of the most valuable lessons.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, they hurt their heart to learn because they
Speaker 2: usually are born of heartbreak and angst. But those are
Speaker 2: really valuable and important lessons. And yeah, that it was.
Speaker 2: You know, we had some really, really really fun times.
Speaker 2: But in looking back, I look at the way my
Speaker 2: life is so easeful now, I look at it back then,
Speaker 2: and I feel like I was like my shoulders were
Speaker 2: always up by my ears, always waiting for the next
Speaker 2: shoe to drop, or something bad to happen, or some
Speaker 2: I don't know, something untoward or gross or.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, do you feel like because you said you
Speaker 1: started out thinking all women were your sisters? And yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know that I started out that way, just
Speaker 1: as I started acting young too, and I was thrust
Speaker 1: into this competitive, you know, dog eat dog world where
Speaker 1: it's every man for himself, man woman child for themselves.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Do you think that the industry had you feeling like
Speaker 1: that or for other reasons too, or was it.
Speaker 2: Just I think I was just I was a bit
Speaker 2: of a gidget. I always assumed everyone would be my friend.
Speaker 2: Why not I want to be their friends? Why not
Speaker 2: be my friend? I didn't understand professional jealousy because I
Speaker 2: didn't really feel it. But I was definitely on the
Speaker 2: receiving end of it from other young actresses and other
Speaker 2: young actresses I was working with, and it I was
Speaker 2: taken aback by it, and I you know, I was
Speaker 2: a bit of a puppy about it. I would still
Speaker 2: come running up, you know, like you want to play.
Speaker 2: I want to play, and then get smacked back. It
Speaker 2: didn't really stop me until I think I hit puberty
Speaker 2: and I was like, I'm not going to play anymore.
Speaker 2: I don't. I should clear this person does not want
Speaker 2: to hang out with me. And I've got friends, I've
Speaker 2: got a life. I don't need this doing her loss. Yep.
Speaker 2: But I always gave everyone the benefit of the doubt. Start.
Speaker 1: That's good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, got hurt a lot, but I made some really
Speaker 2: wonderful friends along with still friends today.
Speaker 1: So that's that's good. That's incredible. Yeah, you didn't go
Speaker 1: to high school, You didn't go to regular Well, I
Speaker 1: was sort of.
Speaker 2: I mean I went to school on the set, but
Speaker 2: I actually I went to the Buckley Oh really Yeah.
Speaker 2: From my whole school career, as they call it, from
Speaker 2: the grade they have called reading readiness, which is like
Speaker 2: their version of kindergarten, all the way through my senior
Speaker 2: year and then when I eventually, I mean I would
Speaker 2: do commercials and stuff as a little kid, and then
Speaker 2: when I got little house, I just corresponded the same
Speaker 2: assignments and work. And then when we were on Hyapa,
Speaker 2: if I wasn't working, which was the first couple of years,
Speaker 2: I would go back to school for three months, three
Speaker 2: four months.
Speaker 1: How was it when you went back to school? Oh?
Speaker 2: It was odd. I mean, it wasn't bad when I
Speaker 2: was little because most of the kids in my class
Speaker 2: had been in my class since yes, yeah, kindergarten essentially,
Speaker 2: and so we all knew each other. We'd all had
Speaker 2: birthdays together, we all grew up together. It wasn't until
Speaker 2: junior high and high school that it got kind of
Speaker 2: uncomfortable because I was this weird combination too, of really
Speaker 2: awkward because I was super sheltered. So rather than like
Speaker 2: most a lot or a lot I should say, of
Speaker 2: Hollywood kids who grew up really fast, I was the opposite.
Speaker 2: I was still wearing Mary James when I was seventeen.
Speaker 1: Do you think that's because you were sheltered being so
Speaker 1: young in the industry and being on sets and just
Speaker 1: kind of people reading you a certain way.
Speaker 2: I think that and I think it was a conscious
Speaker 2: decision on my mother's part to shield me from as
Speaker 2: much of the craziness as possible, because it was it
Speaker 2: was inevitable that that would happen, so she really kind
Speaker 2: of built a wall around me to keep me young.
Speaker 2: So I would go back to school and I would
Speaker 2: be really kind of dorky and then also but famous,
Speaker 2: so weird, so awkward, so strange that kids didn't know
Speaker 2: how to talk to me. And to top it off,
Speaker 2: I had really bad I had a really bad overbite.
Speaker 1: Legendary, legendary, iconic. Everybody wanted that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, and so I had retainers and stuff. But
Speaker 2: when we'd go on hiatus, i'd have braces and a
Speaker 2: neck gear, so I wore that to school. That didn't help.
Speaker 1: I'm getting the visual now.
Speaker 2: Right, even to the point where like we wore uniforms,
Speaker 2: which is a great sort of evil. Schoolgirls wore ankle socks,
Speaker 2: and my mom made me wear knee socks. So there
Speaker 2: I was in my knee socks, my skirt was extra long,
Speaker 2: and my neck gear, and I was awkward and famous,
Speaker 2: so no one knew what the heck to do with me.
Speaker 1: God, I love this teenage little preteen Melissa so.
Speaker 2: Much angsty squid. I was just an angsty I would
Speaker 2: slay on the floor in my room with my stereo
Speaker 2: on and my headphones and listen to janis Ian's at
Speaker 2: seventeen over and over.
Speaker 1: And did you have siblings?
Speaker 2: I do have a brother and a sister, and I've
Speaker 2: had step brothers and stepsisters. Lot.
Speaker 1: What's your birth order?
Speaker 2: I'm first, You're the first, You're the oldest. First. My
Speaker 2: brother Jonathan, who was also in little house with me,
Speaker 2: is second, and my sister Sarah, the mini mogul in
Speaker 2: the family, is the youngest.
Speaker 1: So I'm asking because for my daughter is my oldest.
Speaker 1: Very similar story to you, the neck, the headgear and
Speaker 1: the socks and just the sweet innocence, but complete like dorkiness.
Speaker 1: What about Sarah?
Speaker 2: Since Sarah was Oh? I was eleven when Sarah was born,
Speaker 2: so I was basically like another little mother. I had
Speaker 2: them put her nursery next to my room. I was
Speaker 2: so excited to have a baby sister. I would come
Speaker 2: home from work and feed her and change her and
Speaker 2: dress her and play with her. And she was she
Speaker 2: She was the darling of the family. She was also
Speaker 2: a really tough kid, because she was really really smart.
Speaker 2: She's still obviously she's genius, but even when she was little,
Speaker 2: she was a lot to deal with. She was fun
Speaker 2: and funny and wide killed and wicked and curious and
Speaker 2: little bit zany, so having her around was really really fun.
Speaker 2: She grew up in a completely different household than I did, though,
Speaker 2: because there's a so many years between us. But there
Speaker 2: was like a changing of the guard. My parents got
Speaker 2: divorced when I was six, My father cast away. My
Speaker 2: mother remarried my sister's dad, and they were She was
Speaker 2: a different parent with my sister.
Speaker 1: Yep, that's what's happened in my family too. And like
Speaker 1: they say, you've raised the Fiona, the youngest one, so
Speaker 1: differently than you raised me. I hear that, and I'm like, ooh,
Speaker 1: well yeah.
Speaker 2: Probably yeah, And i get it now that I have kids,
Speaker 2: and they'll get it when they have kids.
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 2: When I when I was a girl, I wasn't allowed
Speaker 2: to have a television in my room. I didn't get
Speaker 2: the television in my room till I was sixteen. And
Speaker 2: when I got the television in my room, everybody else
Speaker 2: got televisions in their room too. They didn't have to
Speaker 2: wait till they were sixteen. Yeah, just because my parents
Speaker 2: didn't want to hear I don't have one too. You know,
Speaker 2: it was just easier to give everyone a television.
Speaker 1: But did you ever go through that resentful stage where
Speaker 1: you were like, this sucks. I had to jump through
Speaker 1: all these hoops and be you know, not get all
Speaker 1: the things, and you just come here and get everything. Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean no, resentful of my siblings so much
Speaker 2: and your parents, Yeah, just mad at them because it
Speaker 2: seemed just wildly unfair. But yeah, I get it now,
Speaker 2: and I you know, I mean, look, these things are
Speaker 2: the least of my issues at this point.
Speaker 1: That's so true in your book Prairie Tale, you said,
Speaker 1: no matter how many people told me I was pretty,
Speaker 1: I just couldn't see it. I kept measuring myself against
Speaker 1: some imaginary ideal I could never live up to. Where
Speaker 1: do you think that ideal came from?
Speaker 2: Actually, I come from a family of extremely glamorous women.
Speaker 2: They're like gbore level glamorous. And I think that's true
Speaker 2: for them too. I think they were always there was
Speaker 2: always someone prettier, thinner, taller, blonder, or successful, better, better husband, whatever.
Speaker 2: There was always sort of I think I probably absorbed
Speaker 2: a bit of that by osmosis, and I think it
Speaker 2: was compounded by the sort of knock kneat, neckgear, face
Speaker 2: back to kind of girlishness, which isn't actually now a
Speaker 2: strength of mine because she's still in there and it's
Speaker 2: one years old. To have that come out and just
Speaker 2: help me to you know, play with the grandchildren or
Speaker 2: be completely goofy or open in a performance because I
Speaker 2: have no fear anymore. I think it has served me.
Speaker 2: But I think a lot of that I saw in
Speaker 2: the adults around me. And then on top of it,
Speaker 2: you know, I'm on set with all of these people
Speaker 2: who are in their adults, who are competing with one
Speaker 2: another and being pitted against and up for the same
Speaker 2: roles and hearing about who got what that they wanted
Speaker 2: and they didn't get. So it was sort of endemic
Speaker 2: and all around me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can totally relate. Yeah, it's I think the
Speaker 1: industry really kind of does a number on people who
Speaker 1: absorb that messaging.
Speaker 2: It's a problem, and you know, actually it's sort of
Speaker 2: I mean, it's so part and parcel to to all
Speaker 2: of the external stuff. It's now permeated everything. Like I
Speaker 2: think I even talked in that book, and I've talked
Speaker 2: in my other books, and I blogged about this too.
Speaker 2: But you know, we do a lot of cross country driving,
Speaker 2: and it never ceases to amaze me when you're driving
Speaker 2: on highways through rural Iowa. Fast food restaurant adds billboards,
Speaker 2: fast food restaurant, fast food restaurant, freeze the fat, liposuction BBL,
Speaker 2: fast food.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's bombarded. The young girls today are just bombarded
Speaker 1: with with.
Speaker 2: The images of the surgically enhanced fixed. I mean, good
Speaker 2: on them that they can do it, but that that's
Speaker 2: the ideal really really makes me nervous for my granddaughters.
Speaker 2: And I'm you know, I'm I. I hope that I'll
Speaker 2: be able to influent when them enough to say, you know,
Speaker 2: that's actually not real, that's not the fix you're looking for.
Speaker 2: You don't want to be an influencer. Let's just let's
Speaker 2: let's center site a little higher daughter.
Speaker 1: So, yeah, it's it's challenging. Yes, I'm sure, how did
Speaker 1: you begin to choose yourself with all of that? And
Speaker 1: how did you begin to love the way you look?
Speaker 2: It probably really hit me right about like after my
Speaker 2: divorce from Bruce box lightner. I was sort of at
Speaker 2: peak filler Botox, big boobs. It was. I was like
Speaker 2: at the apex of that. And I looked at myself
Speaker 2: in the mirror one day or no, no, no, I
Speaker 2: looked at a picture of myself. It was a paparazzi
Speaker 2: photo from some event, and it startled me and I thought,
Speaker 2: Oh my god, that's not who I am or who
Speaker 2: I wanted to be. And so I made a decision
Speaker 2: to kind of back off all of that, to see
Speaker 2: what was underneath it and to figure out who I was.
Speaker 2: And then I met Tim while after that, and I
Speaker 2: started expressing this to him, and he was like, all
Speaker 2: for it. Please don't do that. Please don't put anything
Speaker 2: in your face. First of all, I can't tell how
Speaker 2: you're feeling. Second of all, you don't look like you.
Speaker 2: And then when I went to him and I said,
Speaker 2: I I really want to take out my breast implants permanently.
Speaker 2: I want to go. I want I don't want them anymore.
Speaker 2: I don't want to have to think about them. I
Speaker 2: don't want to have to, you know, make a decision
Speaker 2: in my eighties to have them replaced. I just want
Speaker 2: it done. I want my body back to what it was.
Speaker 2: I want to feel strong and healthy as I age now.
Speaker 2: And his immediate reaction was do it, Let's do it,
Speaker 2: Let's find the best surgeon in Michigan. Let's get it done.
Speaker 2: And we did, and so that's just really enforced. That's
Speaker 2: then I stopped coloring my hair, and then I stopped
Speaker 2: dressing for other people and dressing for myself and really
Speaker 2: figuring out, you know, who this person was that I was.
Speaker 2: I knew why I was on the inside. I wanted
Speaker 2: the outside to match.
Speaker 1: That is so inspiring and incredible.
Speaker 2: Oh, bless you, Thank you so much. I feel I
Speaker 2: feel good, you know. I still I take really good
Speaker 2: care of myself.
Speaker 1: I eat. Yeah, I was gonna say, you're You're always
Speaker 1: going to be gorgeous until the end of time. That's sweet,
Speaker 1: But yeah, what do you do now to take care
Speaker 1: of yourself and stay healthy and vibrant.
Speaker 2: I do a lot of yoga. It's my favorite exercise.
Speaker 2: I think at this age too, it's really helpful for
Speaker 2: you know, osteoporosis and the flexibility is important. I drink
Speaker 2: a lot of water. I take really good care of
Speaker 2: my skin, wear sunscreen, which I always have, my whole
Speaker 2: life anyway. I eat as well as to be expected.
Speaker 2: I try to eat as cleanly as possible, but I
Speaker 2: don't deny myself. If I want to have a shark
Speaker 2: Heuteri plate, I have a sharkutery plate. If I want
Speaker 2: a big bolo pasta, I have a big bolo pasta.
Speaker 2: I just don't do it all the time. I get
Speaker 2: a lot of sleep, and I stay away from things
Speaker 2: that make me uncomfortable and unhappy as much.
Speaker 1: As p Yeah, you gotta hang out with joy that
Speaker 1: makes you look good.
Speaker 2: It really does. It changes your whole being being happy,
Speaker 2: it really does.
Speaker 1: And you're sobriety. You you're you've been sober for a
Speaker 1: long time.
Speaker 2: A wild and very very focused on being present too,
Speaker 2: you know, not numbing out to the things that are
Speaker 2: around me and not feeling feelings, which is sometimes not
Speaker 2: very fun but important to get through the other side.
Speaker 2: Otherwise they well up and come out at the wrong
Speaker 2: time and the wrong way. And I don't want to
Speaker 2: do that anymore either. So I just hear a little
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, you are it is, that's what happens.
Speaker 2: Yeah, hopefully, thank god.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm like, thank you for just making me a
Speaker 1: more present, more joyful person as I've gotten older, because
Speaker 1: I was not you know, I didn't know who I
Speaker 1: was for so so long.
Speaker 2: I get it, I really, and that the feeling of inadequacy,
Speaker 2: and you know that it's hard. It's really so much pressure, so.
Speaker 1: Much pressure, and I guess we do it to ourselves, but.
Speaker 2: We're expected to. I mean if everybody else is too.
Speaker 1: I know, how do you? Yeah, it's it takes a
Speaker 1: lot of bravery to pave your own road, it really does.
Speaker 1: And I love seeing people out there that are doing that.
Speaker 1: I love you know. I've talked to a lot of women,
Speaker 1: and a lot of women are at least cutting back
Speaker 1: on alcohol or have stopped drinking it. I stopped drinking
Speaker 1: alcohol a couple of years ago.
Speaker 2: Now, fantastic.
Speaker 1: I feel so much better for it. Yeah, not just
Speaker 1: like you know, physically, but emotionally and mentally different person.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well you know that that that that guilt, I mean,
Speaker 2: there's no other way to there's no other word for
Speaker 2: it is gone of you know, and and then not
Speaker 2: remembering what happened or what you said, or then remembering
Speaker 2: what you did or what you said, and it's you know,
Speaker 2: not who you are. It's just if we want to
Speaker 2: be authentically who we are, we can't. We can't. Is
Speaker 2: that take us away from that and we lose your everything,
Speaker 2: your spiritual connection, your grounded in connection to yourself.
Speaker 1: Do you ever have like moments of weakning? Is like,
Speaker 1: how do you keep yourself on the path?
Speaker 2: Gosh, it's been such a long time. I think staying
Speaker 2: saying present in the moment and really honestly avoiding really
Speaker 2: uncomfortable situations. And when I see uncomfortable situations, the ones
Speaker 2: that make me make my skin crawl, I I like
Speaker 2: what like what like? I'm not really great at a
Speaker 2: big Hollywood to do. I never know.
Speaker 1: I don't like them.
Speaker 2: I couldn't do them unless I was really altered. Yes,
Speaker 2: I just I get embarrassed. I'm also a really big fan.
Speaker 2: I love films and television and theater, and so when
Speaker 2: I am in a room full of people I admire,
Speaker 2: I get like scared and nervous and shy and uncomfortable.
Speaker 2: I always assume no one's gonna know me or remember me,
Speaker 2: and I just I don't. I don't like getting all
Speaker 2: dressed up. I don't. It's I don't. It's like the
Speaker 2: height of that whole competitive thing too. Yeah, and stand
Speaker 2: a certain way and the expectations are all there. I
Speaker 2: just those are the things that I would prefer to
Speaker 2: avoid if I. If I do go to anything, I
Speaker 2: won't go alone. I'll always go with Tim because he'll
Speaker 2: make me laugh all the time and that makes me
Speaker 2: feel so much more comfortable. Yeah. So the things like that,
Speaker 2: that that, that's the kind of stuff that I don't
Speaker 2: like really.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because then you just get so anxious and so
Speaker 1: kind of out of body that you're like, oh, I
Speaker 1: wish I could just have a drink, like.
Speaker 2: Watching every word that I say because I'm afraid I'm
Speaker 2: gonna say something dumb. So I just I'd rather just
Speaker 2: avoid those things if I can. I mean, I'll go.
Speaker 1: Way off to But yeah, I wasn't born for this.
Speaker 2: No me, neither me neither. It's again, and it's more
Speaker 2: of that tiny talk. It's all those irrelevant, little snippets
Speaker 2: of conversation with people you don't really know that don't
Speaker 2: change anything or do anything. They used to tell us
Speaker 2: to go to those things because networking was important.
Speaker 1: He'll tell us that.
Speaker 2: It's not true. It doesn't make a difference. No, one's
Speaker 2: going to see you at his screening and go, ah,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna put her in my next film.
Speaker 1: You really believe that, Okay, because I've always been told
Speaker 1: that I don't network. I don't, you know, put myself
Speaker 1: out there. I literally stay home in garden all the time.
Speaker 1: And I've always felt guilty or somehow like why am I?
Speaker 1: Why can't I do that? I must be a failure
Speaker 1: at this like and amazing feel better to know that
Speaker 1: you feel that way too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I just don't. I just I honestly, I
Speaker 2: believe that if some wonderful job is meant to happen,
Speaker 2: it's going to come. Whether I'm on a red carpet
Speaker 2: or not.
Speaker 1: That's true. If it's meant to be, it will happen.
Speaker 2: If it's meant to be, it's going to happen. There's
Speaker 2: no need to to pursue it in that way. It
Speaker 2: just makes me just talking eives.
Speaker 1: Okay, we'll stop talking about it because I don't want
Speaker 1: to talk about it either. Okay, before I let you go,
Speaker 1: Melissa Gilbert, what was your last I Choose me moments?
Speaker 2: My last I Choose me moment. It's kind of a
Speaker 2: daily thing. I I I have a bubble bath every
Speaker 2: day and that's where I read whatever book i'm reading.
Speaker 2: I sit in the bath, I turn on music, I
Speaker 2: close the door. One dog lays next to me. The
Speaker 2: other dog is not allowed in because she's too splashy
Speaker 2: and loud. The quiet dog lays in there in the
Speaker 2: bathroom with me. I close the door. Sometimes I have tea,
Speaker 2: usually water, and I sit in the bubble bath and
Speaker 2: I read every day.
Speaker 1: That is glorious. Such a simple thing. But it's really so.
Speaker 2: Simple, but it's so decompressing, and it gets me out
Speaker 2: of my head and it gets me in my imagination,
Speaker 2: and it's relaxing and constructive, and it feels pampering.
Speaker 1: It really does, because the upkeep is real, like.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, things are following the more. Sometimes I feel like,
Speaker 2: like Moleihan and Nervel, stream and death become like its
Speaker 2: flaking and falling off. That is important.
Speaker 1: Baths are important, and the moisturizer after them always important.
Speaker 2: But moisturizer and sunscreen become your two best friends as
Speaker 2: you ag Yeah, I.
Speaker 1: Read somewhere that someone said reading twenty minutes a day
Speaker 1: can lower your blood pressure, lower your risk of heart disease.
Speaker 1: All kinds of things. Well, there you go, there you go.
Speaker 2: I'll take it.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for being on the podcast.
Speaker 2: Thank you, bye bye,