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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production

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Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio, Hello and Happy Friday. I'm Holly Frye and

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Speaker 1: I'm Tracy V.

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Speaker 2: Wilson.

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Speaker 1: We talked about Frank Duvnik and Lizzie boot this week,

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Speaker 1: which I really really like so many things about both

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Speaker 1: of them. One thing we didn't get into. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we touch on their relationships a little bit. Lizzie was

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Speaker 1: the inspiration for a lot of Henry James, Like if

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Speaker 1: you have a portrait of a lady or the Golden Bowl,

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Speaker 1: they are inspired directly by her and her family. There

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Speaker 1: are a lot of pieces, Like I said, much theorizing

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Speaker 1: about whether or not he was in love with her

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Speaker 1: and couldn't quite admit it to himself. There's a fun

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Speaker 1: story about Frank Duvenik and Whistler in Italy. He started

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Speaker 1: hanging out a lot and kind of drawing together a lot,

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Speaker 1: and then there were arguments about whether one or the

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Speaker 1: other had plagiarized from the other. And the funny part

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Speaker 1: is the Duvenik kind of didn't care, like he was

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Speaker 1: so unbothered by stuff like that. He's like, well, I

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Speaker 1: know what my heart is. It's fine. I oh, I

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Speaker 1: admire that approach to life. I think I think he

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Speaker 1: sounds like more fun than you think he sounds like.

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Speaker 1: I well, I thought all the part about being so

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Speaker 1: encouraging of other students and you know, being recognized as kind,

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Speaker 1: the parts about like hiding under the table to make

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Speaker 1: animal I was like, I would I be bothered if

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Speaker 1: I were one of the people at the table and

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Speaker 1: a person was like making a fake argument. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think, to keep it in mind, it's like at

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Speaker 1: a place that is probably very loud, you know what

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Speaker 1: I mean. It's not like you're having a quiet meal

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Speaker 1: with a friend and there's a dude under your table

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Speaker 1: bugging like.

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Speaker 2: It's a little more like.

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Speaker 1: He's adding to the audio drama that plays out in

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Speaker 1: a restaurant and trying to like make it more interesting.

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Speaker 1: He sounds fun as heck to me, I will drink

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Speaker 1: with you any day, Frank Duvenik. That is also another

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Speaker 1: thing we didn't talk about a whole lot. We talked

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Speaker 1: about how her father and Henry James did not think

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Speaker 1: he was refined enough for her, but there was a

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Speaker 1: lot of like this kid from a beer garden thinks

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Speaker 1: he can marry my society daughter, Like there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of that going on, and he was really unassuming. I

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Speaker 1: think one of the things that's most fascinating and speaks

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Speaker 1: the most about him is that, you know, he was

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Speaker 1: a really good art teacher. He was really really wonderful

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Speaker 1: at supporting other artists, and that a lot of those

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Speaker 1: students who like would follow him to the ends.

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Speaker 2: Of the earth.

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Speaker 1: Were not much younger than him, like in some cases,

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Speaker 1: like a year or two. They were more like peers,

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Speaker 1: but he was so ahead of them in terms of

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Speaker 1: talent and skill and ability to like work with people,

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Speaker 1: that he was the natural leader of that scene, which

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Speaker 1: is kind of cool.

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Speaker 2: I like him.

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Speaker 1: He One of the things we also didn't talk about

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Speaker 1: that kind of helps knit together the historical fabric and

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Speaker 1: where people touch up together is that he was very

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Speaker 1: influenced by previous podcast subject Gustav Corbet, who was really

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Speaker 1: he learned about through his one of his teachers, Wilhelm Leibel,

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Speaker 1: who kind of was part of the German realist movement

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Speaker 1: that was really into Corbet at that time.

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Speaker 2: I just like it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, another thing we didn't talk about but I love

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Speaker 1: is there are three paintings of essentially this same thing

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Speaker 1: that he did as a project with William Merritt Chase,

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Speaker 1: who was one of his close friends in art school.

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Speaker 1: Chase was the one who got sick when they were

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Speaker 1: traveling in Venice and then got a job back in

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Speaker 1: the US. But the two of them did this cool

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Speaker 1: project where they did paintings. It's sometimes called just Turkish Page,

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Speaker 1: and it's like a little boy who is in like

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Speaker 1: Turkish Garbie has a little head wrap and he's you know,

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Speaker 1: kind of dressed very simply, and he's seated and there's

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Speaker 1: you know, animals around him and stuff and food. And

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Speaker 1: they each painted this same scene, which was interesting because

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Speaker 1: they're very different. Right like Frank's version of it, the

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Speaker 1: page looks very skinny and really much more kind of

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Speaker 1: dramatically run down for lack of better phrasing, whereas Chase's

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Speaker 1: is almost lush. It's a really beautiful painting. But then

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Speaker 1: there's a third painting that William Merritt Chase painted, which

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Speaker 1: is Duvenec painting his.

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Speaker 2: Version of the painting.

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Speaker 1: And when you look at the three of them together,

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Speaker 1: there's something so weird and wonderful and delightful that these

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Speaker 1: two painters were, like, I have a cool and weird idea. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: let's make a project together. It's interesting because it's a

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Speaker 1: really good way to look at how different painters of

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Speaker 1: the time were interpreting things differently. And it's a really

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Speaker 1: good lesson for people that are maybe not maybe not

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Speaker 1: confident that they can pick out differences in art to

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Speaker 1: be like, yes, you can look at these two right

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Speaker 1: together of the same thing and how differently they express it.

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Speaker 1: I love it.

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Speaker 2: I love art.

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Speaker 1: Did you know I think I gathered that. Ah, here's

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Speaker 1: a thing that boils my blood.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 1: There are a lot of biographies of Frank Duvenek that

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Speaker 1: say he married one of his students. That makes it

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Speaker 1: sound a little seedy, like he married someone much younger

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Speaker 1: than him. That was you know, that there was a

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Speaker 1: power imbalance that does happen when people have relationship with students.

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Speaker 1: But like, not only does it make him sound like

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Speaker 1: a creeper when that wasn't what was going on, but

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Speaker 1: it also makes Lizzie not an active participant when she

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Speaker 1: clearly pursued it right, And it's like, no, she was actually.

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Speaker 2: Older than him.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, she kind of had all the power because she

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Speaker 1: had money and social status and he did not. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and so I'm always like, I hate when it gets

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Speaker 1: simplified that way. It's like, that's not really you're not

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Speaker 1: really conveying that this was a pretty equal partnership in

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Speaker 1: terms of like two people actually wanting.

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Speaker 2: To be together.

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Speaker 1: It is very I really really like Lizzie's take on

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Speaker 1: things that She's like, I didn't think I was ever

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Speaker 1: gonna get married.

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Speaker 2: This is weird. Yeah, I understand that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I have a husband and a baby inside of

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Speaker 1: a year. I don't know how that happened. I mean

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Speaker 1: she does, it's like, whoops.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: When when Patrick and I met, I had been I

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Speaker 1: will describe it as like aggressively single for like five years,

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Speaker 1: and I had been in a relationship before that for

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Speaker 1: a couple of years, and then the years before that

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Speaker 1: was like another period of being again aggressively single, sort.

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Speaker 2: Of being like, how did this happen? I get that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we didn't have any babies though, same same, I

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Speaker 1: didn't think I ever wanted to get married, and then

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Speaker 1: I met Brian and.

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Speaker 2: He messed that whole plan up. Gee. Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting too the way that some writers over time

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Speaker 1: have talked about their weddings specifically, like there are some

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Speaker 1: versions that make it sound like it was really really

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Speaker 1: important to her to get married before she was forty.

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Speaker 1: It's like, I don't get that vibe. Yeah, you and

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Speaker 1: I were going to talk about The Whistling Boy. Yes.

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Speaker 1: Reading through this before we recorded, I was like, I

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Speaker 1: feel like I know this painting and I just couldn't

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Speaker 1: bring it to mind.

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Speaker 2: So I googled it.

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Speaker 1: And at Wikimedia Commons, which is a place you can

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Speaker 1: find lots of usually public domain work, there's this sentence

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Speaker 1: that says this painting was originally titled The Smoking Boy.

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Speaker 1: Art censors at the time forced Frank Duvenek to paint

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Speaker 1: out the cigarette in the boy's hand, leaving us with

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Speaker 1: the painting, which now hangs in the Cincinnati Art Museum.

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Speaker 1: So I was like, what, that's a thing to not

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Speaker 1: like that? Seems like if that were the case, it

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Speaker 1: would have been in the episode. This painting comes up

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Speaker 1: a few times. And then I didn't find any other

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Speaker 1: source claiming that he had been forced to paint it out,

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Speaker 1: and instead I have found and I think you found,

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Speaker 1: also sources that basically said that there was a varnish

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Speaker 1: on the painting that had darkened and made it hard

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Speaker 1: to see and once that was removed, you could see

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Speaker 1: that there was a cigarette in his hand. So I'm like,

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Speaker 1: where did this whole thing come from about him being

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Speaker 1: forced to paint it out? The other thing is, when

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Speaker 1: I read that, I thought that the thing being discussed

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Speaker 1: was that there had been a cigarette in his left

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Speaker 1: hand that had been painted out, because the way this

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Speaker 1: person is holding his hand in the picture, like the

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Speaker 1: position of his hand seems like there could have been

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Speaker 1: a cigarette between his index finger and his middle finger.

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Speaker 1: But where it actually is is in the other hand entirely,

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Speaker 1: and you can see it if you zoo Like it's

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Speaker 1: a little hard to see at computer screen resolution, but

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Speaker 1: if you zoom in on it, like, it's obviously right there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So I don't know where that whole thing came from

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Speaker 1: about him being made to paint it out. I have

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Speaker 1: a theory. Okay, Now it's possible someone out there is like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I know exactly where, and I just have not come

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Speaker 1: across it. But I wonder if part of it isn't

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Speaker 1: because that first big exhibit that like popped off where

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Speaker 1: he suddenly got famous, there isn't a catalog listing for it.

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Speaker 1: And one of the things that I read, which was

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Speaker 1: by mahonri Sharp Young. This was written in nineteen sixty nine,

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Speaker 1: but that rite up mentions that oddly, in the reviews

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Speaker 1: of it, the Whistling Boy isn't mentioned, but only three

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Speaker 1: of the paintings are, and so it's possible that either

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Speaker 1: maybe they were like, we shouldn't even talk about this

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Speaker 1: painting it's a kid smoking, although that seems odd, or

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Speaker 1: that someone has made the assumption that it was left

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Speaker 1: out of discussion or that it was not part of

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Speaker 1: the exhibition because of it. That's the trick is if

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Speaker 1: we don't know what all was in that, we know

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Speaker 1: those three that we mentioned, and beyond that, it's guesswork.

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Speaker 1: Sure like there's even a little confusion because one of

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Speaker 1: the things that's mentioned there are two notes mentioned. I

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Speaker 1: think it's in Henry James's review that it's all male subjects,

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Speaker 1: but then he describes a painting of a baby, and

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Speaker 1: at that point the only baby painting that anyone knows

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Speaker 1: of that he had done was a little very obviously

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Speaker 1: like a little girl in like classical stuff. So it's

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Speaker 1: a little unclear, and I wonder if some of that

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Speaker 1: confusion is what has led to this. But as I mentioned,

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Speaker 1: he really liked to lay shellac and varnish on because

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Speaker 1: he thought it made his stuff look old and cool.

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Speaker 1: And I and that stuff yellows over time, and I

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Speaker 1: think it had just obscured that detail because it's still there.

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Speaker 1: It didn't get painted out. Oh, Frank Duvenek, that's time

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Speaker 1: travel and we'll go on a little drinking party together.

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Speaker 1: He sounds so fun, so fun, but like, I love

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Speaker 1: the idea of this like boisterous fun person who is

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Speaker 1: not full of themselves, because often that's how that works.

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Speaker 1: But he's instead boisterous and fun and wants everybody to

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Speaker 1: like be recognized for their work and praised and supported.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, And if you do, go to the

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Speaker 1: met like I said, go see that that memorial sculpture.

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Speaker 1: It's so beautiful. It is so beautiful.

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Speaker 2: I love it.

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Speaker 1: We talked about Noodles of Noodles this week. I feel

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Speaker 1: like when I was a kid, there was a Ramen brand,

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Speaker 1: like an instant Ramen that.

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Speaker 2: Was called Noodles of Noodles.

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Speaker 1: There was, I'm sure of it.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if it's still around here. We'll look

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Speaker 2: it up.

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Speaker 1: While we do that, we'll mention that The thing that

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Speaker 1: I refrained from talking about in relation to the Stroganoff

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Speaker 1: family was their amazing art collection.

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Speaker 2: I mean there's a tiny mention of it in the episode.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but like they were famed for their art patronage

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Speaker 1: and lauded for it. Stroganoff, how I love it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I love it so much. I want to make it

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Speaker 1: all the time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there was.

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Speaker 1: That's one of those dishes that my mom made when

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Speaker 1: we were kids, for the both ease and economy of

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Speaker 1: making it.

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Speaker 2: And we've talked about my many.

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Speaker 1: Issues with food textures when I was a kid. I

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Speaker 1: did not love the texture of egg noodles for some reason.

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Speaker 1: I don't have this problem now. Yeah, but you would

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Speaker 1: serve that or something similar over like mashed potatoes or

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Speaker 1: rice or some other starch, that very inexpensive starch, adding

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Speaker 1: a component to it as part of like what makes

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Speaker 1: it yeah, super economical. Yes, families, Yeah, I really really

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Speaker 1: love And we only touched on it briefly. Alexander Grigorovitch Stroganov,

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Speaker 1: who was the one who anybody could walk into his

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Speaker 1: house and eat, and I love that so much, And

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Speaker 1: he would have, like I forget what the exact rules were.

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Speaker 1: It was basically like you had to be smart, like

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Speaker 1: you had to be interesting and be able to converse,

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Speaker 1: and you had to be dressed decently, which didn't mean fancy.

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Speaker 1: It was kind of like, you know, shirt and shirt

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Speaker 1: and shoes required. This is this isn't a beach vacation,

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Speaker 1: not that you would be at the beach in Odessa,

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Speaker 1: but I love that idea of just anybody can come

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Speaker 1: and eat and my I presumably very talented professional chefs

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Speaker 1: will serve you like they would anyone else, and we'll

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Speaker 1: all just sit down and have a meal together. I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 1: that sounds kind of amazing. It makes me like him heaps.

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Speaker 1: I also really really love Luisa Tetrazini. Everything I read

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Speaker 1: about her is so fun and she just sounds like

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Speaker 1: she had a great time, and I love that she was.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I can't imagine being that self confident from

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Speaker 1: right out of the gate, but she seems like she

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Speaker 1: always was the envy I feel for that. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: where she just knew exactly who she was, what she

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Speaker 1: was capable of, and what she was willing to put

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Speaker 1: up with. Yeah. I'm not sure offhand if I have

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Speaker 1: eaten a Tetrazini, Like everything in it. I'm like, yes,

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Speaker 1: I'm on board with all of this, but it also

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Speaker 1: seems like something I might have been more likely to

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Speaker 1: eat and at restaurant, and maybe and I'd like, I

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Speaker 1: think if I were in a restaurant that we're serving it,

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Speaker 1: there would probably be other things on them in you

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Speaker 1: that would call to me more. Maybe, But don't sleep

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Speaker 1: on tetrazini because it's real good.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it sounds delicious.

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Speaker 1: I forget where it was that I was in the

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Speaker 1: research when someone mentioned that Vincent Price had included loved

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Speaker 1: It and included a recipe, and I was like, I

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Speaker 1: have that book to collection, and I got to open

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Speaker 1: up my treasury of Great recipes and look up their recipe,

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Speaker 1: which is so good.

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Speaker 2: I love it. It's like parentheses chicken and spaghetti casser Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Ah, I'll do my plug for that book again. If

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Speaker 1: no one has read it, you can still get copies

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Speaker 1: of it. It is Vincent and Mary, who were both

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Speaker 1: big foodies, recreating with blessings the recipes from all of

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Speaker 1: their favorite restaurants that they had visited around the world.

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Speaker 1: So it's like, here's the section on this place we

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Speaker 1: love in Rome, here's this section on this place we

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Speaker 1: love in Paris, and it's really wonderful because I mean

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Speaker 1: we've I've talked about Vinsur Price on the show.

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Speaker 2: I love him very much.

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Speaker 1: But the way that he really wanted to democratize art

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Speaker 1: history for a lot of people, like he did the

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Speaker 1: art print collections and seers so that people can be

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Speaker 1: exposed to great artists at almost any budget. He similarly

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Speaker 1: wrote books like this. He wrote several cookbooks that were about, like, allegedly,

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Speaker 1: fancy food should not just be for wealthy people. Everyone

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Speaker 1: should know and delight in like the delicious combinations that

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Speaker 1: food can create. And I love him for that. I

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Speaker 1: love him for many reasons. But if you get your

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Speaker 1: hands on it also he has. He and Mary put

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Speaker 1: a little trick for making roo in that cookbook that

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Speaker 1: I live by, which is that they pre make it

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Speaker 1: huge batches and then freeze it and you just use

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Speaker 1: like a melon baller to scoop out the right amount

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Speaker 1: and you're ready to go. You put it in your

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Speaker 1: skillet and you're ready to start adding other stuff to it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: their recipe comes out velvety smooth every time. It's so

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Speaker 1: good nice, So like their proportions are exactly correct. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so highly recommend if you're a yeah cook, My my

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Speaker 1: spouse is I think grandmother teaching him to cook told

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Speaker 1: him as long as you know how to make a room,

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Speaker 1: you'll never starve. That's correct, You'll never starve, and everything

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Speaker 1: will taste pretty good. Listen, a root and correct a

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Speaker 1: lot of problems. Super simple, but it is easy, like

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Speaker 1: to get it wrong and it seizes up sometimes, and

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Speaker 1: you know when you add the I literally fixed some

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Speaker 1: not great tasting stuff while visiting my dad recently by

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Speaker 1: making a roue and then a parmesan sauce out of it. Listen,

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Speaker 1: did the pork get overcooked? Yes, it did, but the

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00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:04,680
Speaker 1: sauce was so good you wouldn't even notice.

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Speaker 2: Nice. I love it.

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Speaker 1: I feel like we're getting to a point kind of

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Speaker 1: with eponymous foods. We're not there yet, but we're nearing

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Speaker 1: it that you got to with nursery rhymes, where it's

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Speaker 1: like we're going to reach the.

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Speaker 2: End and out.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there are more, but some of it is like

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Speaker 1: if it's too obscure, I feel like it doesn't quite

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00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:38,960
Speaker 1: fit the bill because part of what's great is like

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Speaker 1: most people have heard of beef stroganov. Most people have

336
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Speaker 1: heard of tetrazine even if they haven't had it, so

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00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:48,080
Speaker 1: that name recognition helps. There are a few more on

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Speaker 1: the list that'll be there. But then there are some

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Speaker 1: where it's like, you know, super obscure person, you've never

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Speaker 1: heard of, dish that's not very common.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't.

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Speaker 1: I feel like you're probably having some but the same

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Speaker 1: thing that I have had with nursery rhymes where it's like,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure there are foods that are named for people

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Speaker 1: that are incredibly well known in like just let's say China,

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Speaker 1: that haven't necessarily been exploited out of China, Yes, for sure,

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Speaker 1: and like for us to try to find and talk

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Speaker 1: about those, like we're gonna miss a bunch of cultural

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Speaker 1: nuanced that would be important, as that's my imagining imagination

350
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Speaker 1: of Yeah, I mean it came up a lot in

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Speaker 1: this episode right where it's like people with tetrasini in particular,

352
00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:37,320
Speaker 1: where people are claiming different years and I can go

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Speaker 1: back through newspaper records and go, Nope, it's right here, Nope,

354
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Speaker 1: it's right here. It's harder to do when you get

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Speaker 1: to foreign language. So we'll see, we'll see how often

356
00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:50,840
Speaker 1: they come up again. But I love doing them, and

357
00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:55,040
Speaker 1: there I always like to talk about food. So Oops

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Speaker 1: All noodles, which is you know what that's a reference to, right,

359
00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:00,840
Speaker 1: oops all berries?

360
00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:01,320
Speaker 2: Yeah?

361
00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:05,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I discovered someone recently who had never heard of

362
00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:09,040
Speaker 1: oops all berries, which, just in case there's anyone hearing this,

363
00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:12,399
Speaker 1: that is the version of Captain crunch Cereal where I

364
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:16,280
Speaker 1: only put crunch berries in it. I love it, but

365
00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:21,960
Speaker 1: it sure does tear up the roof of my mouth. Yeahs,

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Speaker 1: Oops All Noodles wouldn't do that to me. Yeah, I

367
00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:28,040
Speaker 1: just googled Oodles of Noodles to circle back to that.

368
00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:33,119
Speaker 1: Me too, And I think the brand still exists but

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Speaker 1: doesn't really use the name anymore. Maybe, I don't know,

370
00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:39,199
Speaker 1: don't know for sure. Yeah, I'm not sure either. But

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Speaker 1: there is a commercial from the nineteen seventies.

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Speaker 2: Yep.

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Speaker 1: I see that as a results for it, and it

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00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:47,480
Speaker 1: looks very much I'm not watching the commercial, but it

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00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:50,040
Speaker 1: looks very much like a Ramen packet would yep.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think your memory is one hundred percent correct. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think when I was in high school it was

379
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Speaker 1: the first time that we ever had instant Ramen and

380
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:07,199
Speaker 1: it was because my mom had gotten like maybe not

381
00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:10,000
Speaker 1: so far as a recipe, but like a food idea

382
00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:15,399
Speaker 1: from a friend that was making an almost faux like

383
00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:21,919
Speaker 1: fondue with uh would that be phone do? Yeah, I'm sorry,

384
00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:25,560
Speaker 1: that was terrible. I'm going to jail for that. But

385
00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:28,840
Speaker 1: like you would have the noodles and you would use

386
00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:32,280
Speaker 1: the broth like the flavor packet part of the ramen,

387
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:34,560
Speaker 1: and you would get your vegetables and stuff in that.

388
00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:40,240
Speaker 1: It was really a lot like making instant ramen and

389
00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:42,280
Speaker 1: putting a lot of vegetables in it, which is a

390
00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:47,320
Speaker 1: thing I will still like dress up my instant ramen

391
00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:54,000
Speaker 1: with other ingredients. Oh yeah, listen. Ramen satte is one

392
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,800
Speaker 1: of my favorites. Here's a question. I don't know if

393
00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:59,840
Speaker 1: I've ever asked you this before. Hi. I know you're

394
00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:04,119
Speaker 1: your parents were really really intent on nutrition as a

395
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:07,440
Speaker 1: lesson for you and your brother. Did your mom do

396
00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:10,560
Speaker 1: much prepackaged stuff or was it all pretty much from scratch?

397
00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:13,640
Speaker 1: So when I was really little, everything was from scratch.

398
00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:19,199
Speaker 1: Mom didn't even buy like prepackaged baby food for us.

399
00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:23,200
Speaker 1: There was a baby food grinder that like the food

400
00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:26,040
Speaker 1: went in to be ground up to be suitable for babies.

401
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:29,520
Speaker 2: And after my brother was born.

402
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:33,520
Speaker 1: My mom was a stay at home mom for some years,

403
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:37,800
Speaker 1: and during those years pretty much everything was made from

404
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:42,200
Speaker 1: scratch all the time, and any like any fast food

405
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:44,720
Speaker 1: or any prepackaged whatever that we had was like some

406
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:47,080
Speaker 1: kind of special circumstance.

407
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:49,280
Speaker 2: Eventually, my mom was.

408
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:50,879
Speaker 1: Like, if these kids are going to go to college,

409
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:54,800
Speaker 1: I got to get a job and I'm just going

410
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:58,359
Speaker 1: to stress at this moment. What my mom did to

411
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:00,960
Speaker 1: send us both to college is not the amount of

412
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:03,000
Speaker 1: money it takes to go to college today. I am

413
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,640
Speaker 1: not at all suggesting that if mom and dad both

414
00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:07,760
Speaker 1: has a job, you can afford to go to college,

415
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:11,240
Speaker 1: but not how it works anymore. But mom went back

416
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:14,040
Speaker 1: to work full time pretty much so that they would

417
00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:15,919
Speaker 1: have enough money for my brother and me to be

418
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:18,760
Speaker 1: able to afford to go to college. And when that happened,

419
00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:21,840
Speaker 1: there was a lot more like prepackaged stuff, and that

420
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:25,399
Speaker 1: as my mom became disabled, her her disability meant that

421
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:27,280
Speaker 1: like a lot of stuff was more accessible if it

422
00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:29,359
Speaker 1: was coming out of a jar or pops.

423
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:30,240
Speaker 2: Rather than being like.

424
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:35,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, my mom was very hardcore about everything had

425
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:39,680
Speaker 1: to be made from scratch, uh huh, and like, by

426
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:42,919
Speaker 1: the way, as we have this discussion. Also, there's no

427
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:44,320
Speaker 1: shame in the prepackaged game.

428
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:46,920
Speaker 2: I really no, no, I love a.

429
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,639
Speaker 1: Matrom scratch meal, but I also love but because my

430
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:53,119
Speaker 1: mom was kind of militant about it, like she I

431
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:56,119
Speaker 1: feel like that was her thing she could control, you

432
00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:58,560
Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like sure, yeah, yeah, yeah, So

433
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:01,679
Speaker 1: it became like the dirty little secret of like my

434
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:04,399
Speaker 1: dad and I sneaking out to McDonald's on occasion. It

435
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:08,399
Speaker 1: was like, do not tell your mother. But as a consequence,

436
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:11,440
Speaker 1: I think I had a period in life where I'd

437
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:14,560
Speaker 1: lived on my own and I embraced prepackaged things so

438
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:17,680
Speaker 1: much as a form of rebellion. Yeah, now I'm kind

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00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 1: of back to making more stuff from scratch, but also

440
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:24,240
Speaker 1: like I love a little doctored up anything. You can

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00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:27,160
Speaker 1: doctor up most prepackaged things to be pretty darn tasty

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00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:30,520
Speaker 1: if you have a little creativity. Like I said, there's

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00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:32,240
Speaker 1: no shame in that game. If you're not a cook,

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00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:33,159
Speaker 1: I am not judging you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I had a kind of similar Mine was really sugary

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00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:41,520
Speaker 1: cereals because even after uh like, even as there was

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00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,719
Speaker 1: more prepackaged and pre prepared stuff as part of our lives,

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00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:48,719
Speaker 1: no sugary cereals was just like a standard rule. And

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00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 1: the only time we had sugary cereals was that one

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00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:54,720
Speaker 1: grandmother's house who always had fruit loops. And when we

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00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 1: would go on vacation, Mom would get those little like

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00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:00,320
Speaker 1: single serf boxes that came with like a mix of

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00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:04,760
Speaker 1: different things. And then I got to college and they

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00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:07,680
Speaker 1: had lucky charms on in the cafe.

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Speaker 2: Area every day.

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00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 1: Yeah. Literally, I'm the little thing that you lifted up

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00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:13,359
Speaker 1: in the lucky charms came out, and that like I

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00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 1: also was vegetarian. Let me, I don't send me notes

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00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:20,480
Speaker 1: about the gelatin and the and the marshmallows.

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00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:21,080
Speaker 2: I didn't know.

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00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:24,199
Speaker 1: But because I was not eating meat and there was

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00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:27,440
Speaker 1: always lucky charms, there was a lot of lucky charms

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00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:32,399
Speaker 1: in my Dietlicious delicious. You took me back instantly with

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00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:35,160
Speaker 1: the multi packs of mini bags of cereal. And I'm

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00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 1: like those poor sugar smacks that sat there forever because

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00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 1: I never wanted those.

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00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:45,120
Speaker 2: The corn pops were our favorite. Oh all the all

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00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:46,000
Speaker 2: the apple jacks.

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Speaker 1: Holy man, To this day, I think about apple jacks

471
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:52,800
Speaker 1: and it's like a dopamine hit. Yeah, but now I

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00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 1: don't I don't enjoy sugar cereals as much just because

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00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 1: like I don't feel great after it, you know, yeah,

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00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 1: we don't keep older can't handle sugar the way.

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00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 2: All right.

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Speaker 1: If you have some time off this weekend, I hope

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00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:08,720
Speaker 1: you eat something really delicious and that it does not

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00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:10,480
Speaker 1: in any way impact you negatively.

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00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:13,720
Speaker 2: If you are not.

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00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:15,920
Speaker 1: Taking time off, I still hope you get something delicious

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00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:20,399
Speaker 1: wedged in there, because listen, yummy things are a great

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00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 1: moment of joy that you can find in most days.

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Speaker 1: We will be right back here tomorrow with a classic episode,

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00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:35,439
Speaker 1: and then on Monday something brand new for you. Stuff

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00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:38,240
Speaker 1: you missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio.

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00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:43,160
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.