Speaker 1: Hey, there are folks in this episode, he criticized President
Speaker 1: Trump on a Saturday night and he was out of
Speaker 1: a job by Wednesday morning. And with that, welcome to
Speaker 1: this bonus episode of Amy and TJ. In this episode,
Speaker 1: now we'll discussed what many of you already heard. Longtime
Speaker 1: ABC News corresponding Terry Moran was initially suspended and then
Speaker 1: eventually they said just today, just hours I guess prior
Speaker 1: to this recording that he in fact is not going
Speaker 1: to be returning to the network. We'll get into some
Speaker 1: of the details, but Robes, initially, let me get your reaction.
Speaker 1: I probably know it. As soon as we heard he
Speaker 1: was suspended. We had our thoughts. But your reaction now
Speaker 1: to just two three days after that tweet where it
Speaker 1: is Terry Moran is not returning DABC News.
Speaker 2: Yes, well, I am not surprised.
Speaker 3: As soon as we heard that he had been suspended
Speaker 3: and we read what his actual original tweet was, you
Speaker 3: and I both knew he was never going to come
Speaker 3: back to ABC News. There was no way that a
Speaker 3: network news division that certainly, as we hope all media
Speaker 3: outlets rely on at.
Speaker 2: Least a.
Speaker 3: Credibility and an attempt at being not taking sides.
Speaker 2: It certainly is.
Speaker 3: Objectivity is core to being a professional journalist and core
Speaker 3: to being a part of a network news organization. What
Speaker 3: we cover, when we cover it, you know, how we
Speaker 3: even cover things can certainly be.
Speaker 2: Up for debate.
Speaker 3: But you know, no matter what, you cannot make a
Speaker 3: public critical comment about a politician, about someone who you
Speaker 3: are supposed to remain objective about so that people at
Speaker 3: home can decide what they think. This was a clear, obvious,
Speaker 3: big no no that I have never actually really seen
Speaker 3: anything similar.
Speaker 1: To okay, So I think neither or neither of us
Speaker 1: surprised by it. Even the timing surprise you initial suspension
Speaker 1: and then here we are just really three days later.
Speaker 1: That seems swift enough to me. It seemed like I
Speaker 1: give him enough time to dot some eyes, cross some
Speaker 1: te's and make sure everything was cool. But the timing,
Speaker 1: There's nothing about this whole story that surprises me. I'm
Speaker 1: trying to find something in there that I go home,
Speaker 1: wait a minute, or this or that, But just what
Speaker 1: he did and what they did in response is it's
Speaker 1: tough to find issue with. I.
Speaker 3: Yes, my only surprise would be that it took them
Speaker 3: three days, because there was really nothing to.
Speaker 2: Work through or work out.
Speaker 3: He wrote what he wrote, and I really couldn't And
Speaker 3: I don't think you could think of a reason why
Speaker 3: he could defend what he did or said.
Speaker 1: Obviously I can think of a reason, because you know,
Speaker 1: I say that with a smile, because I'm always anytime
Speaker 1: I hear someone say, wait, let me hear all the
Speaker 1: details first, let me hear what was on their mind,
Speaker 1: let me hear what was going on, they would only
Speaker 1: come out as excuses. They would only be received that way.
Speaker 1: But this is the guy who's been in the business
Speaker 1: a long long time, just twenty eight years at ABC alone.
Speaker 1: He's and he's covered. He covers big stuff. He didn't
Speaker 1: run around and cover the NBA finals.
Speaker 3: The Preme Court of the foreign news, the Pope.
Speaker 1: Okay, he covers the Vatican stuff like.
Speaker 2: That, important heavy political stuff.
Speaker 1: So him tweeting at midnight, him tweeting when he did,
Speaker 1: and what he he knows better than what he did.
Speaker 1: So my only thing he had to be out of
Speaker 1: his right, out of his mind, or he just said
Speaker 1: the hell with it and I just don't give a
Speaker 1: damn anymore and decided to do it. But he knows
Speaker 1: better than what he did.
Speaker 2: Look, this wasn't a slip of the tongue.
Speaker 3: This wasn't accidentally editorializing when you're on live television and
Speaker 3: something slipped out. This was a deliberate, handwritten thought that
Speaker 3: you chose to disseminate in a very public forum.
Speaker 2: So it's done long, quick, quip correct, And so it was.
Speaker 3: Even though there definitely were some grammatical errors, that isn't
Speaker 3: typical of Terry Moran, who again is a consummate professional
Speaker 3: and has been an incredible journalist, so he that isn't
Speaker 3: in character for him. So the only reason that I
Speaker 3: believe you and I could come up with that he
Speaker 3: did what he did was either a substance abuse problem
Speaker 3: or a mental health problem.
Speaker 2: And either one of.
Speaker 3: Those two things, I imagine you could take to ABC
Speaker 3: News and say, I need help, I need to recover,
Speaker 3: I want to apologize, I need to get my head
Speaker 3: on straight. And that would be the only way that
Speaker 3: I could have envisioned ABC News standing by him, or
Speaker 3: at least seeing him through getting through a tough time
Speaker 3: in his life.
Speaker 1: And we are not, to be clear, suggesting anything of
Speaker 1: the sol interesting in that no issue, nobody suggested, and
Speaker 1: we're not that either, And just what we know of
Speaker 1: this guy for so long, you're looking for a reason
Speaker 1: for why he did what he did. And the journalist
Speaker 1: we know knows better than to do what he did,
Speaker 1: So why did he do it? We're looking for that
Speaker 1: answer and we don't have that yet from him. I
Speaker 1: don't think there's a single comment from him publicly. But
Speaker 1: why did he do it? In the timing of it?
Speaker 1: And you talk about I mean, having some people just
Speaker 1: made mistakes just it's late, they're exhausted, a couple of
Speaker 1: glasses of wine and screwed up.
Speaker 3: But this was just but this was yes, and it
Speaker 3: could be, but this was just so deliberate. And then
Speaker 3: when we found out today that it turns out ABC
Speaker 3: News didn't actually even have to fire Terry Moran because
Speaker 3: his contract is up at the end of this week.
Speaker 3: The timing of when he put out the tweet and
Speaker 3: the fact that this was potentially his last week the
Speaker 3: network seems perhaps that he could have The other thing
Speaker 3: is he could have done this to go out with
Speaker 3: a blazers of glory that he wanted to say what
Speaker 3: had been on his mind for a long time. He
Speaker 3: knew perhaps after he had left the network, it might
Speaker 3: not get as much attention and maybe he knew. Hey,
Speaker 3: while I'm still working with ABC News, I'm going to
Speaker 3: go ahead and say what I've wanted to say for
Speaker 3: the last four or five months.
Speaker 1: And two for those that don't know, you have up
Speaker 1: in front of you. Yes, I is okay, go ahead
Speaker 1: and read exactly what he said. I think the grammatical
Speaker 1: errors are in there as well, but yes, this is
Speaker 1: exactly what Terry Moran wrote at twelve eight a m.
Speaker 1: Saturday night, So into Sunday is what we're talking about.
Speaker 1: This is what you wrote.
Speaker 3: Yes, and I'm reading this verbatim. Grammatical mistakes and all.
Speaker 3: Miller is a man who was richly endowed with the
Speaker 3: capacity for hatred. He's a world class hater. You can
Speaker 3: see this just by looking at him, because you can
Speaker 3: see that his hatreds are his spiritual nourishment.
Speaker 2: He eats his hate.
Speaker 3: Trump is a world class hater, but his hatred is
Speaker 3: Sorry I started, I tried to correct his grammatical error,
Speaker 3: but his hatred only a means to an end, and
Speaker 3: that end his own glorification. That's his spiritual nourishment. And
Speaker 3: we should point out that Terry Moran is referring to
Speaker 3: Stephen Miller, who is the deputy chief of staff President Trump.
Speaker 1: See, yeah, and this is personal, I would even and
Speaker 1: and I hope this doesn't. It has a little bit
Speaker 1: delve into a back and forth, a conversation left and
Speaker 1: right about media bias. And there's some defending Terry Moran say, hey,
Speaker 1: why are you going to suspend or punish him for
Speaker 1: speaking truth to power, for speaking up for free speech.
Speaker 1: Shouldn't he be allowed to say what he wants to say?
Speaker 1: This is not a left right situation. This is just
Speaker 1: everything turns into that. But it's not that. This is
Speaker 1: about the fundamentals of basic journalism. This, sweetheart, did we
Speaker 1: get out of the first week of journalism class without
Speaker 1: them teaching you about objectivity? Point blank? You can never
Speaker 1: go back and cover the White House again after this?
Speaker 2: No, you have to. Can't you learn?
Speaker 3: I think one of the first things you learn is
Speaker 3: do you take your personal opinions and your personal bias
Speaker 3: and what you think and what you were raised to believe,
Speaker 3: and you hang that on the code hanger along with
Speaker 3: your jacket, and you can pick it back up when
Speaker 3: you leave the newsroom. But one while you're in the newsroom,
Speaker 3: you were one of your most important jobs is to
Speaker 3: be objective. You should tell the truth, and you need
Speaker 3: to say it without bias. You should let the people
Speaker 3: at home decide what they think based on the facts
Speaker 3: that you can provide them.
Speaker 2: And that's a period.
Speaker 1: They're arguing now that Okay, he left the newsroom, he
Speaker 1: was done with his job for the day. Why can't he,
Speaker 1: as a private citizen now go say whatever the hell
Speaker 1: he wants and why should he be punished for exercising
Speaker 1: a free speech right. That is not the debate here, folks.
Speaker 1: This is journalism. This is a high level journal list.
Speaker 1: We all know. So we are just on the Gavin
Speaker 1: Rossdale came into our studio. We did an interview, right
Speaker 1: imagine two days before I did that, I just got
Speaker 1: on Twitter and said, Gavin Rossdale is an idiot. I
Speaker 1: hate his hair, his music is stupid. Yeah, okay, is
Speaker 1: he going to come in and do an interview with me?
Speaker 1: Absolutely no, you don't. You just can't do what he
Speaker 1: did and still be claimed to be objective. And this
Speaker 1: wasn't about policy. This was personal. He's a hater. He's
Speaker 1: nourished by his hate.
Speaker 2: He eats his hate.
Speaker 1: Come on.
Speaker 3: That's that's throwing a massive barb at somebody, and it
Speaker 3: is I think that's a good way to put it.
Speaker 3: It's deeply personal. He wasn't discussing politics. He discussing discussing
Speaker 3: their ethics, their morality, and he had issue with that,
Speaker 3: and that's something you can't recover from. That's not something
Speaker 3: that you can say, whoopsie or oopsie, I shouldn't have
Speaker 3: done that, or I shouldn't have said that.
Speaker 1: And that's not truth to power, right, it's not truth
Speaker 1: to power. It's not correcting a politician who let out
Speaker 1: of falsehood. That's objective. And your point is that you
Speaker 1: don't like this guy. You think he's a hater. That's
Speaker 1: not a fact.
Speaker 2: That's a personal opinion.
Speaker 1: Personal opinion. So I think even if he had criticized
Speaker 1: the administration in some way policy wise, maybe a suspension,
Speaker 1: maybe he could come back from it. This was just
Speaker 1: outright personal attack, personally attacking the why, and.
Speaker 3: In doing so, unfortunately, it fuels this narrative that every
Speaker 3: journalist in mainstream media at the big networks all feel
Speaker 3: the same way Terry Moran feels, and they're just hiding
Speaker 3: it and pretending that they don't while they're on the job,
Speaker 3: and yet they actually ask questions and go about their
Speaker 3: job with that bias, with that hatred, with that personal
Speaker 3: negative opinion about the people in power, and that's shaping
Speaker 3: and affecting news coverage, and so that now of course
Speaker 3: people are saying, see that he took his mask off,
Speaker 3: this is the mask that all journalists are wearing at
Speaker 3: the networks, and that's simply not true at all. So
Speaker 3: it's unfortunate that now because of the decision of Terry,
Speaker 3: a lot of other journalists are now being viewed through
Speaker 3: that same lens.
Speaker 2: And they have been for a while.
Speaker 3: It's not like this is a new thing, but now
Speaker 3: of course, but now it's like proof. Aha. See they
Speaker 3: all think that. See they all act with that in
Speaker 3: their minds as they report the news.
Speaker 2: And that's unfortunate.
Speaker 1: Well, it just feeds that storyline. And now now we're
Speaker 1: helping it along, like we've you know that stuff y'all
Speaker 1: just railed about and y'all suspicious of Boom. We just
Speaker 1: gave you some evidence of it. Yes it's only one case,
Speaker 1: but we give you evidence. Look, and people, everybody, no trust.
Speaker 1: Every single journalist has an opinion. Every single journalist has
Speaker 1: an opinion about Trump and policies and every other politician
Speaker 1: you can think of, and everything going on in the world.
Speaker 1: But the point is you're not supposed to let that
Speaker 1: influence your work, So don't. We're not sitting here at
Speaker 1: all thinking no journalists to have an opinion about something
Speaker 1: in our personal lives, but you can't let that out,
Speaker 1: and then you can't let it get into your work.
Speaker 3: Every journalist is different, and I think you and I
Speaker 3: are very similar, Babe. That when and I heard people
Speaker 3: and it wasn't that often that people sometimes would express
Speaker 3: their opinions, and I would actually say it was rare
Speaker 3: in a new Zoom because it was understood you don't
Speaker 3: discuss your personal opinions about specific politicians or their policies.
Speaker 3: You can talk about how they handled it or perhaps
Speaker 3: how we're covering it. But it was very rare, and
Speaker 3: I always removed myself from any of that, and I.
Speaker 2: Always try to.
Speaker 3: I really did try to put on blinders when it
Speaker 3: came to reporting, especially when it comes to the Trump administration.
Speaker 3: It is a very delicate dance. Everyone is dancing, truly
Speaker 3: in the newsroom, trying not to express their opinion and
Speaker 3: trying to remain objective. And there's been a big debate
Speaker 3: with Trump because it's taken it to a whole other
Speaker 3: level as he goes out and goes after the press,
Speaker 3: and so it's already tricky. It's already a very troubled
Speaker 3: relationship between mainstream media and the Trump administration.
Speaker 1: I don't mind us having more scrutiny. I don't mind
Speaker 1: somebody forcing us to check ourselves a little more. I
Speaker 1: don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. If it keeps
Speaker 1: us from doing our job and has us running scared,
Speaker 1: that's a different thing. Because it seems right now, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's Trump to ABC News zero in his administration right now,
Speaker 1: because he already wiped the floor with the whole George
Speaker 1: Dephanopolis thing. Right, they already pay this due sixteen million dollars.
Speaker 2: And then look at what's happening over at CBS and.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh that he's still what he's holding them hostage
Speaker 1: almost with them trying to do a sale of CBS.
Speaker 1: At this point, he's still how much is that lossuit billions?
Speaker 3: It's billions. And now you have a major, seasoned, reputable
Speaker 3: journalists and executives stepping down because they feel that there's
Speaker 3: an overcorrection now over at CBS that they're trying so
Speaker 3: hard not to upset Trump that they're avoiding or they're
Speaker 3: absolutely changing how they would have normally covered stories.
Speaker 1: So there are some points where you can already point
Speaker 1: to and say networks are caving. He's just handing him
Speaker 1: a win. This is too easy. He didn't have to
Speaker 1: go search for this one. I mean, I can't even
Speaker 1: Trump is right on this. It's hard to make any
Speaker 1: argument that Trump did something wrong in this scenario. He
Speaker 1: was attacked, his White House was attacked by a guy
Speaker 1: who has been covering and yes, remember Tara Moran is
Speaker 1: the guy who just interviewed and went in April on
Speaker 1: his first one hundred days. Why Because ABC News is
Speaker 1: really running out of people who can interview the President
Speaker 1: of the United State.
Speaker 3: George Sephanoppolis cannot interview the president. Robin Roberts isn't going
Speaker 3: to interview the president. And I don't know how they
Speaker 3: would feel about having her, because I just think that
Speaker 3: they are looking at certain journalists as oh, okay, well she
Speaker 3: interviewed Barack Obama, so we're not going to have her
Speaker 3: interview President Trump. They're very picky as well as to
Speaker 3: who they would choose. They went out, They went after
Speaker 3: David Mure because of how they felt he handled along
Speaker 3: with Lindsay Davis, who would be another one possible, how
Speaker 3: they handled the debate. So he was upset with them.
Speaker 3: So that's not going to happen.
Speaker 1: That's why it fell to Terry Moran. He was the
Speaker 1: one that the White House picked. They gave him a hey,
Speaker 1: which one of these for the interview? He picked Moran.
Speaker 1: He told Moran during the interview, I picked you because
Speaker 1: I never heard of you. So he was almost saying,
Speaker 1: congratulations on this opportunity. I'm giving you.
Speaker 2: Correct one hundred percent. That's what he did.
Speaker 1: They're running out of people who can interview the President
Speaker 1: of the United.
Speaker 2: States now, you know.
Speaker 3: And it really is puzzling to me because Terry, look, look,
Speaker 3: anyone who's had a long career, and he certainly has.
Speaker 3: He sixty five years old, has had a long and
Speaker 3: storied career, twenty eight years at ABC News alone, and
Speaker 3: you have ups and downs in your career. And he
Speaker 3: at one point was visible all the time covering the
Speaker 3: White House, the Supreme Court, he went over to the
Speaker 3: London bureau and was a foreign correspondent, and then you know,
Speaker 3: you start to go. You don't get on as much.
Speaker 3: But there has been a recent resurgence in his career
Speaker 3: where he yes, he got the Trump interview. They put
Speaker 3: him out front and center in Rome to cover the Pope.
Speaker 3: So his career seemed to be on the upswing.
Speaker 1: Supreme Court and the election were two things they needed
Speaker 1: his expertise. Car he's a veteran. Rome needed his expertise.
Speaker 3: He's a veteran, and so clearly with what's happening at
Speaker 3: ABC News, you would think they'd hold on to someone
Speaker 3: like that.
Speaker 2: His contract was coming up.
Speaker 3: That's why I can't get my head around that, because
Speaker 3: you and I both know when your contract's coming up.
Speaker 3: Six months before your contracts up, sometimes even a year
Speaker 3: before your contracts up. If they want to keep you,
Speaker 3: the network will come to you or to your agents
Speaker 3: and try to work something out. A week before your
Speaker 3: contract's up and you haven't worked anything out. That seems
Speaker 3: a little suspect as well, but that is what ABC
Speaker 3: News said that his contract was up on Friday, and
Speaker 3: so this has certainly created a situation in which they
Speaker 3: can officially say they will not be renewing his contract,
Speaker 3: therefore they didn't have to fire him, and they didn't
Speaker 3: have to actually do anything.
Speaker 1: Well, was it. I'm looking at their statement here in
Speaker 1: part of it says we have made the decision to
Speaker 1: not renew, as if that decision had yet to be made,
Speaker 1: or had they made the decision he was going to stay.
Speaker 1: I don't think they were planning on getting rid of them,
Speaker 1: it's the point.
Speaker 3: Well, I wouldn't so either, But then it's curious to me,
Speaker 3: because you and I. I guess I can only speak
Speaker 3: for myself when several times in my career my contract
Speaker 3: has come up and I wanted to stay. Anytime I
Speaker 3: was on my not that I was ever on bad behavior,
Speaker 3: but I was on my uber best behavior. I said
Speaker 3: yes to everything. I jumped on every plane they asked
Speaker 3: me to, because you know, if they're considering whether or
Speaker 3: not they want to keep you, and they're considering how
Speaker 3: much they would like to pay you, you usually put
Speaker 3: your best foot forward in those months and weeks leading
Speaker 3: up to your contract ending. So it seems extra suspect
Speaker 3: that he would go on this rant and make this
Speaker 3: choice given the timing of his contract.
Speaker 2: That's insane.
Speaker 1: To me, you described like an NFL player playing on
Speaker 1: the last year of his contract and he has just
Speaker 1: like a record year because what you want to happen,
Speaker 1: So he might have Hey, maybe he just said to
Speaker 1: hell with it, he's over it. He's sixty five, I'm
Speaker 1: done with this anyway, and just let it go. We
Speaker 1: don't know. Last thing for me to you is, do
Speaker 1: you see any way he could have state? No.
Speaker 3: The only way he could have stayed is if there
Speaker 3: was some sort of a mental health crisis of some
Speaker 3: kind that he could say, Hey, I got to go
Speaker 3: get help. I'm going to come back bigger and better
Speaker 3: than ever. I'm gonna apologize. I'm going to talk about
Speaker 3: what journalists should do and why I completely made the
Speaker 3: wrong call. And perhaps in that context he could have stayed,
Speaker 3: but it would have the bar would be really, really high.
Speaker 2: How about you.
Speaker 1: I have to talk to him, I really would. These
Speaker 1: are things that it's hard to just what's best for
Speaker 1: the news organization is what I'm supposed to do. If
Speaker 1: I was the head of ABC News, right, you got
Speaker 1: to think about that first. But then you're a human being,
Speaker 1: and we have learned so much more in the past
Speaker 1: two three years of our lives, about human beings, about
Speaker 1: mistakes that are made, about just listening, being compassionate. I
Speaker 1: would like to hear and if he had a good
Speaker 1: enough reason, I would force him to come out there,
Speaker 1: get on screen, explain it to everybody. If it was
Speaker 1: a health crisis, you have to explain it to everybody.
Speaker 1: You're gonna have to call and get on the phone
Speaker 1: to apologized, to Stephen Miller, to the White House Press Secretary,
Speaker 1: to the President himself. You're going to come out and
Speaker 1: do everything you can to say I'm sorry and that
Speaker 1: you made a mistake, and here is why you made
Speaker 1: the mistake. If that hurts your news organization, maybe, but
Speaker 1: also sends a message something about forgiveness, something about mistake,
Speaker 1: something in But if it's but I'd have to hear
Speaker 1: his story. And if I didn't buy it and he
Speaker 1: was just you know, popping off of the mouth and
Speaker 1: not really apologetic, that would be different. But I just wonder,
Speaker 1: and I just wish things like that didn't have to
Speaker 1: be the end for people who have contributed so much
Speaker 1: to an organization, to a field of journalism that one
Speaker 1: tweet at midnight and it's over.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's sad.
Speaker 3: That's sad after a very long and storied and respectable
Speaker 3: and impressive career. The Terry Moran that you and I
Speaker 3: both know was passionate about journalism, passionate about the truth.
Speaker 3: So we wish him well. We hope that he is
Speaker 3: doing okay. This is not an easy time when the
Speaker 3: world turns against you. We know what that feels like,
Speaker 3: and we wish nothing but the best for him, and
Speaker 3: we hope if he does choose to speak, he is
Speaker 3: able to explain for folks to understand where he was
Speaker 3: and why he did what he did.
Speaker 2: But if he doesn't want to, that's okay as well,
Speaker 2: that's okay as well.
Speaker 3: So thank you for listening to us, and we hope
Speaker 3: that we gave you a little bit more perspective about
Speaker 3: what goes on behind the scenes in newsrooms and just
Speaker 3: trying to figure out where this is headed and maybe
Speaker 3: why we even got here. But hope that everyone just
Speaker 3: gives folks a little bit of a break sometimes when
Speaker 3: you hear the headlines