1 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:06,360 Speaker 1: Hey, there are folks in this episode, he criticized President 2 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:09,440 Speaker 1: Trump on a Saturday night and he was out of 3 00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:12,400 Speaker 1: a job by Wednesday morning. And with that, welcome to 4 00:00:12,440 --> 00:00:17,119 Speaker 1: this bonus episode of Amy and TJ. In this episode, 5 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 1: now we'll discussed what many of you already heard. Longtime 6 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:23,880 Speaker 1: ABC News corresponding Terry Moran was initially suspended and then 7 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 1: eventually they said just today, just hours I guess prior 8 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 1: to this recording that he in fact is not going 9 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 1: to be returning to the network. We'll get into some 10 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:37,800 Speaker 1: of the details, but Robes, initially, let me get your reaction. 11 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 1: I probably know it. As soon as we heard he 12 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:42,200 Speaker 1: was suspended. We had our thoughts. But your reaction now 13 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:46,199 Speaker 1: to just two three days after that tweet where it 14 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 1: is Terry Moran is not returning DABC News. 15 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:50,800 Speaker 2: Yes, well, I am not surprised. 16 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:54,280 Speaker 3: As soon as we heard that he had been suspended 17 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 3: and we read what his actual original tweet was, you 18 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:00,360 Speaker 3: and I both knew he was never going to come 19 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 3: back to ABC News. There was no way that a 20 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:08,559 Speaker 3: network news division that certainly, as we hope all media 21 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:10,839 Speaker 3: outlets rely on at. 22 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 2: Least a. 23 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:20,320 Speaker 3: Credibility and an attempt at being not taking sides. 24 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 2: It certainly is. 25 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:25,039 Speaker 3: Objectivity is core to being a professional journalist and core 26 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:28,200 Speaker 3: to being a part of a network news organization. What 27 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 3: we cover, when we cover it, you know, how we 28 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:32,440 Speaker 3: even cover things can certainly be. 29 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:33,160 Speaker 2: Up for debate. 30 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 3: But you know, no matter what, you cannot make a 31 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:42,480 Speaker 3: public critical comment about a politician, about someone who you 32 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:45,679 Speaker 3: are supposed to remain objective about so that people at 33 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 3: home can decide what they think. This was a clear, obvious, 34 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 3: big no no that I have never actually really seen 35 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:54,280 Speaker 3: anything similar. 36 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 1: To okay, So I think neither or neither of us 37 00:01:56,680 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 1: surprised by it. Even the timing surprise you initial suspension 38 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 1: and then here we are just really three days later. 39 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 1: That seems swift enough to me. It seemed like I 40 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 1: give him enough time to dot some eyes, cross some 41 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 1: te's and make sure everything was cool. But the timing, 42 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:14,920 Speaker 1: There's nothing about this whole story that surprises me. I'm 43 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:16,919 Speaker 1: trying to find something in there that I go home, 44 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 1: wait a minute, or this or that, But just what 45 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:22,639 Speaker 1: he did and what they did in response is it's 46 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:25,200 Speaker 1: tough to find issue with. I. 47 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:27,799 Speaker 3: Yes, my only surprise would be that it took them 48 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:30,520 Speaker 3: three days, because there was really nothing to. 49 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:33,960 Speaker 2: Work through or work out. 50 00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 3: He wrote what he wrote, and I really couldn't And 51 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 3: I don't think you could think of a reason why 52 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:40,680 Speaker 3: he could defend what he did or said. 53 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:44,200 Speaker 1: Obviously I can think of a reason, because you know, 54 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 1: I say that with a smile, because I'm always anytime 55 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 1: I hear someone say, wait, let me hear all the 56 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:50,680 Speaker 1: details first, let me hear what was on their mind, 57 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:52,919 Speaker 1: let me hear what was going on, they would only 58 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 1: come out as excuses. They would only be received that way. 59 00:02:56,840 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 1: But this is the guy who's been in the business 60 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:01,800 Speaker 1: a long long time, just twenty eight years at ABC alone. 61 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 1: He's and he's covered. He covers big stuff. He didn't 62 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:07,919 Speaker 1: run around and cover the NBA finals. 63 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 3: The Preme Court of the foreign news, the Pope. 64 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:13,680 Speaker 1: Okay, he covers the Vatican stuff like. 65 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 2: That, important heavy political stuff. 66 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 1: So him tweeting at midnight, him tweeting when he did, 67 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 1: and what he he knows better than what he did. 68 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:27,080 Speaker 1: So my only thing he had to be out of 69 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 1: his right, out of his mind, or he just said 70 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:33,079 Speaker 1: the hell with it and I just don't give a 71 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 1: damn anymore and decided to do it. But he knows 72 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:37,160 Speaker 1: better than what he did. 73 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:39,120 Speaker 2: Look, this wasn't a slip of the tongue. 74 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 3: This wasn't accidentally editorializing when you're on live television and 75 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:51,720 Speaker 3: something slipped out. This was a deliberate, handwritten thought that 76 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 3: you chose to disseminate in a very public forum. 77 00:03:56,080 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 2: So it's done long, quick, quip correct, And so it was. 78 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 3: Even though there definitely were some grammatical errors, that isn't 79 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 3: typical of Terry Moran, who again is a consummate professional 80 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:11,480 Speaker 3: and has been an incredible journalist, so he that isn't 81 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 3: in character for him. So the only reason that I 82 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:17,400 Speaker 3: believe you and I could come up with that he 83 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:20,279 Speaker 3: did what he did was either a substance abuse problem 84 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 3: or a mental health problem. 85 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:23,160 Speaker 2: And either one of. 86 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 3: Those two things, I imagine you could take to ABC 87 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 3: News and say, I need help, I need to recover, 88 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:29,920 Speaker 3: I want to apologize, I need to get my head 89 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 3: on straight. And that would be the only way that 90 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:35,919 Speaker 3: I could have envisioned ABC News standing by him, or 91 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 3: at least seeing him through getting through a tough time 92 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:39,919 Speaker 3: in his life. 93 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 1: And we are not, to be clear, suggesting anything of 94 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:46,160 Speaker 1: the sol interesting in that no issue, nobody suggested, and 95 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 1: we're not that either, And just what we know of 96 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:51,080 Speaker 1: this guy for so long, you're looking for a reason 97 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:54,599 Speaker 1: for why he did what he did. And the journalist 98 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 1: we know knows better than to do what he did, 99 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:00,120 Speaker 1: So why did he do it? We're looking for that 100 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 1: answer and we don't have that yet from him. I 101 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:04,719 Speaker 1: don't think there's a single comment from him publicly. But 102 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:06,839 Speaker 1: why did he do it? In the timing of it? 103 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 1: And you talk about I mean, having some people just 104 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 1: made mistakes just it's late, they're exhausted, a couple of 105 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 1: glasses of wine and screwed up. 106 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 3: But this was just but this was yes, and it 107 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:19,240 Speaker 3: could be, but this was just so deliberate. And then 108 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:23,040 Speaker 3: when we found out today that it turns out ABC 109 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 3: News didn't actually even have to fire Terry Moran because 110 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 3: his contract is up at the end of this week. 111 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:31,719 Speaker 3: The timing of when he put out the tweet and 112 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:35,000 Speaker 3: the fact that this was potentially his last week the 113 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 3: network seems perhaps that he could have The other thing 114 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 3: is he could have done this to go out with 115 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 3: a blazers of glory that he wanted to say what 116 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:46,359 Speaker 3: had been on his mind for a long time. He 117 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:48,600 Speaker 3: knew perhaps after he had left the network, it might 118 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 3: not get as much attention and maybe he knew. Hey, 119 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:53,640 Speaker 3: while I'm still working with ABC News, I'm going to 120 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 3: go ahead and say what I've wanted to say for 121 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:57,840 Speaker 3: the last four or five months. 122 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 1: And two for those that don't know, you have up 123 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 1: in front of you. Yes, I is okay, go ahead 124 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 1: and read exactly what he said. I think the grammatical 125 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 1: errors are in there as well, but yes, this is 126 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:10,240 Speaker 1: exactly what Terry Moran wrote at twelve eight a m. 127 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 1: Saturday night, So into Sunday is what we're talking about. 128 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 1: This is what you wrote. 129 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:17,880 Speaker 3: Yes, and I'm reading this verbatim. Grammatical mistakes and all. 130 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:21,279 Speaker 3: Miller is a man who was richly endowed with the 131 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:26,040 Speaker 3: capacity for hatred. He's a world class hater. You can 132 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:29,480 Speaker 3: see this just by looking at him, because you can 133 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:33,120 Speaker 3: see that his hatreds are his spiritual nourishment. 134 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 2: He eats his hate. 135 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:39,479 Speaker 3: Trump is a world class hater, but his hatred is 136 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:43,559 Speaker 3: Sorry I started, I tried to correct his grammatical error, 137 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:47,280 Speaker 3: but his hatred only a means to an end, and 138 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:54,160 Speaker 3: that end his own glorification. That's his spiritual nourishment. And 139 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 3: we should point out that Terry Moran is referring to 140 00:06:57,000 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 3: Stephen Miller, who is the deputy chief of staff President Trump. 141 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:04,119 Speaker 1: See, yeah, and this is personal, I would even and 142 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 1: and I hope this doesn't. It has a little bit 143 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 1: delve into a back and forth, a conversation left and 144 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 1: right about media bias. And there's some defending Terry Moran say, hey, 145 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 1: why are you going to suspend or punish him for 146 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 1: speaking truth to power, for speaking up for free speech. 147 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 1: Shouldn't he be allowed to say what he wants to say? 148 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 1: This is not a left right situation. This is just 149 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 1: everything turns into that. But it's not that. This is 150 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 1: about the fundamentals of basic journalism. This, sweetheart, did we 151 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 1: get out of the first week of journalism class without 152 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 1: them teaching you about objectivity? Point blank? You can never 153 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 1: go back and cover the White House again after this? 154 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:47,680 Speaker 2: No, you have to. Can't you learn? 155 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 3: I think one of the first things you learn is 156 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:52,200 Speaker 3: do you take your personal opinions and your personal bias 157 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 3: and what you think and what you were raised to believe, 158 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 3: and you hang that on the code hanger along with 159 00:07:57,760 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 3: your jacket, and you can pick it back up when 160 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 3: you leave the newsroom. But one while you're in the newsroom, 161 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 3: you were one of your most important jobs is to 162 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 3: be objective. You should tell the truth, and you need 163 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 3: to say it without bias. You should let the people 164 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 3: at home decide what they think based on the facts 165 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 3: that you can provide them. 166 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 2: And that's a period. 167 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 1: They're arguing now that Okay, he left the newsroom, he 168 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 1: was done with his job for the day. Why can't he, 169 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 1: as a private citizen now go say whatever the hell 170 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:31,280 Speaker 1: he wants and why should he be punished for exercising 171 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 1: a free speech right. That is not the debate here, folks. 172 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:39,840 Speaker 1: This is journalism. This is a high level journal list. 173 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 1: We all know. So we are just on the Gavin 174 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:46,840 Speaker 1: Rossdale came into our studio. We did an interview, right 175 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 1: imagine two days before I did that, I just got 176 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:52,880 Speaker 1: on Twitter and said, Gavin Rossdale is an idiot. I 177 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:55,840 Speaker 1: hate his hair, his music is stupid. Yeah, okay, is 178 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 1: he going to come in and do an interview with me? 179 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:00,720 Speaker 1: Absolutely no, you don't. You just can't do what he 180 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 1: did and still be claimed to be objective. And this 181 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 1: wasn't about policy. This was personal. He's a hater. He's 182 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:09,600 Speaker 1: nourished by his hate. 183 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:11,440 Speaker 2: He eats his hate. 184 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 1: Come on. 185 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:16,559 Speaker 3: That's that's throwing a massive barb at somebody, and it 186 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 3: is I think that's a good way to put it. 187 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:21,720 Speaker 3: It's deeply personal. He wasn't discussing politics. He discussing discussing 188 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 3: their ethics, their morality, and he had issue with that, 189 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 3: and that's something you can't recover from. That's not something 190 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 3: that you can say, whoopsie or oopsie, I shouldn't have 191 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 3: done that, or I shouldn't have said that. 192 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:37,000 Speaker 1: And that's not truth to power, right, it's not truth 193 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:40,079 Speaker 1: to power. It's not correcting a politician who let out 194 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 1: of falsehood. That's objective. And your point is that you 195 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:45,679 Speaker 1: don't like this guy. You think he's a hater. That's 196 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:46,200 Speaker 1: not a fact. 197 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:47,600 Speaker 2: That's a personal opinion. 198 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:49,959 Speaker 1: Personal opinion. So I think even if he had criticized 199 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:53,679 Speaker 1: the administration in some way policy wise, maybe a suspension, 200 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:56,200 Speaker 1: maybe he could come back from it. This was just 201 00:09:56,400 --> 00:10:00,600 Speaker 1: outright personal attack, personally attacking the why, and. 202 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:07,439 Speaker 3: In doing so, unfortunately, it fuels this narrative that every 203 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:11,680 Speaker 3: journalist in mainstream media at the big networks all feel 204 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:14,680 Speaker 3: the same way Terry Moran feels, and they're just hiding 205 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 3: it and pretending that they don't while they're on the job, 206 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:21,839 Speaker 3: and yet they actually ask questions and go about their 207 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:25,559 Speaker 3: job with that bias, with that hatred, with that personal 208 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 3: negative opinion about the people in power, and that's shaping 209 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:32,640 Speaker 3: and affecting news coverage, and so that now of course 210 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 3: people are saying, see that he took his mask off, 211 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 3: this is the mask that all journalists are wearing at 212 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:41,440 Speaker 3: the networks, and that's simply not true at all. So 213 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:45,320 Speaker 3: it's unfortunate that now because of the decision of Terry, 214 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 3: a lot of other journalists are now being viewed through 215 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 3: that same lens. 216 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:51,280 Speaker 2: And they have been for a while. 217 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 3: It's not like this is a new thing, but now 218 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:57,439 Speaker 3: of course, but now it's like proof. Aha. See they 219 00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 3: all think that. See they all act with that in 220 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 3: their minds as they report the news. 221 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:04,199 Speaker 2: And that's unfortunate. 222 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 1: Well, it just feeds that storyline. And now now we're 223 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:10,199 Speaker 1: helping it along, like we've you know that stuff y'all 224 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:13,600 Speaker 1: just railed about and y'all suspicious of Boom. We just 225 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 1: gave you some evidence of it. Yes it's only one case, 226 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:19,800 Speaker 1: but we give you evidence. Look, and people, everybody, no trust. 227 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:23,640 Speaker 1: Every single journalist has an opinion. Every single journalist has 228 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 1: an opinion about Trump and policies and every other politician 229 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:30,439 Speaker 1: you can think of, and everything going on in the world. 230 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:32,280 Speaker 1: But the point is you're not supposed to let that 231 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 1: influence your work, So don't. We're not sitting here at 232 00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 1: all thinking no journalists to have an opinion about something 233 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:42,959 Speaker 1: in our personal lives, but you can't let that out, 234 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:46,000 Speaker 1: and then you can't let it get into your work. 235 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:57,440 Speaker 3: Every journalist is different, and I think you and I 236 00:11:57,480 --> 00:12:02,040 Speaker 3: are very similar, Babe. That when and I heard people 237 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:04,840 Speaker 3: and it wasn't that often that people sometimes would express 238 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 3: their opinions, and I would actually say it was rare 239 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 3: in a new Zoom because it was understood you don't 240 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:15,680 Speaker 3: discuss your personal opinions about specific politicians or their policies. 241 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:18,080 Speaker 3: You can talk about how they handled it or perhaps 242 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:20,600 Speaker 3: how we're covering it. But it was very rare, and 243 00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 3: I always removed myself from any of that, and I. 244 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:24,040 Speaker 2: Always try to. 245 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:26,920 Speaker 3: I really did try to put on blinders when it 246 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 3: came to reporting, especially when it comes to the Trump administration. 247 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:36,720 Speaker 3: It is a very delicate dance. Everyone is dancing, truly 248 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 3: in the newsroom, trying not to express their opinion and 249 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:42,120 Speaker 3: trying to remain objective. And there's been a big debate 250 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 3: with Trump because it's taken it to a whole other 251 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 3: level as he goes out and goes after the press, 252 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:54,560 Speaker 3: and so it's already tricky. It's already a very troubled 253 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:57,360 Speaker 3: relationship between mainstream media and the Trump administration. 254 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 1: I don't mind us having more scrutiny. I don't mind 255 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:04,679 Speaker 1: somebody forcing us to check ourselves a little more. I 256 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:07,040 Speaker 1: don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. If it keeps 257 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 1: us from doing our job and has us running scared, 258 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 1: that's a different thing. Because it seems right now, yeah, 259 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:16,520 Speaker 1: it's Trump to ABC News zero in his administration right now, 260 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 1: because he already wiped the floor with the whole George 261 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:22,600 Speaker 1: Dephanopolis thing. Right, they already pay this due sixteen million dollars. 262 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:25,080 Speaker 2: And then look at what's happening over at CBS and. 263 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:27,319 Speaker 1: Yeah, oh that he's still what he's holding them hostage 264 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:30,880 Speaker 1: almost with them trying to do a sale of CBS. 265 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 1: At this point, he's still how much is that lossuit billions? 266 00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:40,199 Speaker 3: It's billions. And now you have a major, seasoned, reputable 267 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:44,280 Speaker 3: journalists and executives stepping down because they feel that there's 268 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:47,120 Speaker 3: an overcorrection now over at CBS that they're trying so 269 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:50,560 Speaker 3: hard not to upset Trump that they're avoiding or they're 270 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:54,319 Speaker 3: absolutely changing how they would have normally covered stories. 271 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 1: So there are some points where you can already point 272 00:13:57,160 --> 00:14:01,160 Speaker 1: to and say networks are caving. He's just handing him 273 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:03,600 Speaker 1: a win. This is too easy. He didn't have to 274 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:06,840 Speaker 1: go search for this one. I mean, I can't even 275 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:11,040 Speaker 1: Trump is right on this. It's hard to make any 276 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:14,840 Speaker 1: argument that Trump did something wrong in this scenario. He 277 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 1: was attacked, his White House was attacked by a guy 278 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:19,880 Speaker 1: who has been covering and yes, remember Tara Moran is 279 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 1: the guy who just interviewed and went in April on 280 00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:26,240 Speaker 1: his first one hundred days. Why Because ABC News is 281 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 1: really running out of people who can interview the President 282 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:30,640 Speaker 1: of the United State. 283 00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:34,360 Speaker 3: George Sephanoppolis cannot interview the president. Robin Roberts isn't going 284 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:36,640 Speaker 3: to interview the president. And I don't know how they 285 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 3: would feel about having her, because I just think that 286 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:43,520 Speaker 3: they are looking at certain journalists as oh, okay, well she 287 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 3: interviewed Barack Obama, so we're not going to have her 288 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:48,080 Speaker 3: interview President Trump. They're very picky as well as to 289 00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 3: who they would choose. They went out, They went after 290 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 3: David Mure because of how they felt he handled along 291 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 3: with Lindsay Davis, who would be another one possible, how 292 00:14:56,400 --> 00:15:00,320 Speaker 3: they handled the debate. So he was upset with them. 293 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:01,760 Speaker 3: So that's not going to happen. 294 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 1: That's why it fell to Terry Moran. He was the 295 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:06,160 Speaker 1: one that the White House picked. They gave him a hey, 296 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:08,400 Speaker 1: which one of these for the interview? He picked Moran. 297 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 1: He told Moran during the interview, I picked you because 298 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 1: I never heard of you. So he was almost saying, 299 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 1: congratulations on this opportunity. I'm giving you. 300 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 2: Correct one hundred percent. That's what he did. 301 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 1: They're running out of people who can interview the President 302 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:20,400 Speaker 1: of the United. 303 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 2: States now, you know. 304 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:24,000 Speaker 3: And it really is puzzling to me because Terry, look, look, 305 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 3: anyone who's had a long career, and he certainly has. 306 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 3: He sixty five years old, has had a long and 307 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:32,240 Speaker 3: storied career, twenty eight years at ABC News alone, and 308 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:34,360 Speaker 3: you have ups and downs in your career. And he 309 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 3: at one point was visible all the time covering the 310 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:39,760 Speaker 3: White House, the Supreme Court, he went over to the 311 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:42,280 Speaker 3: London bureau and was a foreign correspondent, and then you know, 312 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 3: you start to go. You don't get on as much. 313 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 3: But there has been a recent resurgence in his career 314 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 3: where he yes, he got the Trump interview. They put 315 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 3: him out front and center in Rome to cover the Pope. 316 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:55,760 Speaker 3: So his career seemed to be on the upswing. 317 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:59,360 Speaker 1: Supreme Court and the election were two things they needed 318 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 1: his expertise. Car he's a veteran. Rome needed his expertise. 319 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:04,840 Speaker 3: He's a veteran, and so clearly with what's happening at 320 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 3: ABC News, you would think they'd hold on to someone 321 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 3: like that. 322 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 2: His contract was coming up. 323 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 3: That's why I can't get my head around that, because 324 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 3: you and I both know when your contract's coming up. 325 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 3: Six months before your contracts up, sometimes even a year 326 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 3: before your contracts up. If they want to keep you, 327 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 3: the network will come to you or to your agents 328 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 3: and try to work something out. A week before your 329 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 3: contract's up and you haven't worked anything out. That seems 330 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:31,480 Speaker 3: a little suspect as well, but that is what ABC 331 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 3: News said that his contract was up on Friday, and 332 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 3: so this has certainly created a situation in which they 333 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:39,400 Speaker 3: can officially say they will not be renewing his contract, 334 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 3: therefore they didn't have to fire him, and they didn't 335 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 3: have to actually do anything. 336 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 1: Well, was it. I'm looking at their statement here in 337 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:49,160 Speaker 1: part of it says we have made the decision to 338 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:52,880 Speaker 1: not renew, as if that decision had yet to be made, 339 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:57,560 Speaker 1: or had they made the decision he was going to stay. 340 00:16:57,600 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 1: I don't think they were planning on getting rid of them, 341 00:16:59,080 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 1: it's the point. 342 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:02,320 Speaker 3: Well, I wouldn't so either, But then it's curious to me, 343 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:05,880 Speaker 3: because you and I. I guess I can only speak 344 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:08,679 Speaker 3: for myself when several times in my career my contract 345 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:11,919 Speaker 3: has come up and I wanted to stay. Anytime I 346 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 3: was on my not that I was ever on bad behavior, 347 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 3: but I was on my uber best behavior. I said 348 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:19,080 Speaker 3: yes to everything. I jumped on every plane they asked 349 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:21,560 Speaker 3: me to, because you know, if they're considering whether or 350 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 3: not they want to keep you, and they're considering how 351 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:27,240 Speaker 3: much they would like to pay you, you usually put 352 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:30,080 Speaker 3: your best foot forward in those months and weeks leading 353 00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:33,200 Speaker 3: up to your contract ending. So it seems extra suspect 354 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:35,479 Speaker 3: that he would go on this rant and make this 355 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:39,480 Speaker 3: choice given the timing of his contract. 356 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:41,160 Speaker 2: That's insane. 357 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:43,720 Speaker 1: To me, you described like an NFL player playing on 358 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:45,840 Speaker 1: the last year of his contract and he has just 359 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:48,320 Speaker 1: like a record year because what you want to happen, 360 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:50,760 Speaker 1: So he might have Hey, maybe he just said to 361 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 1: hell with it, he's over it. He's sixty five, I'm 362 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:54,399 Speaker 1: done with this anyway, and just let it go. We 363 00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:57,720 Speaker 1: don't know. Last thing for me to you is, do 364 00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:01,000 Speaker 1: you see any way he could have state? No. 365 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:04,120 Speaker 3: The only way he could have stayed is if there 366 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:07,240 Speaker 3: was some sort of a mental health crisis of some 367 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:09,320 Speaker 3: kind that he could say, Hey, I got to go 368 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 3: get help. I'm going to come back bigger and better 369 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:13,639 Speaker 3: than ever. I'm gonna apologize. I'm going to talk about 370 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:17,240 Speaker 3: what journalists should do and why I completely made the 371 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:20,320 Speaker 3: wrong call. And perhaps in that context he could have stayed, 372 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:23,040 Speaker 3: but it would have the bar would be really, really high. 373 00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:23,680 Speaker 2: How about you. 374 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:26,680 Speaker 1: I have to talk to him, I really would. These 375 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:28,879 Speaker 1: are things that it's hard to just what's best for 376 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:31,879 Speaker 1: the news organization is what I'm supposed to do. If 377 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:33,760 Speaker 1: I was the head of ABC News, right, you got 378 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:36,080 Speaker 1: to think about that first. But then you're a human being, 379 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:38,000 Speaker 1: and we have learned so much more in the past 380 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:41,480 Speaker 1: two three years of our lives, about human beings, about 381 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:46,200 Speaker 1: mistakes that are made, about just listening, being compassionate. I 382 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 1: would like to hear and if he had a good 383 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:52,560 Speaker 1: enough reason, I would force him to come out there, 384 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:55,879 Speaker 1: get on screen, explain it to everybody. If it was 385 00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:58,160 Speaker 1: a health crisis, you have to explain it to everybody. 386 00:18:58,280 --> 00:18:59,600 Speaker 1: You're gonna have to call and get on the phone 387 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:02,639 Speaker 1: to apologized, to Stephen Miller, to the White House Press Secretary, 388 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:04,760 Speaker 1: to the President himself. You're going to come out and 389 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:07,679 Speaker 1: do everything you can to say I'm sorry and that 390 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:09,680 Speaker 1: you made a mistake, and here is why you made 391 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 1: the mistake. If that hurts your news organization, maybe, but 392 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:17,360 Speaker 1: also sends a message something about forgiveness, something about mistake, 393 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:21,040 Speaker 1: something in But if it's but I'd have to hear 394 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:22,639 Speaker 1: his story. And if I didn't buy it and he 395 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:24,960 Speaker 1: was just you know, popping off of the mouth and 396 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 1: not really apologetic, that would be different. But I just wonder, 397 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:30,320 Speaker 1: and I just wish things like that didn't have to 398 00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 1: be the end for people who have contributed so much 399 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:36,080 Speaker 1: to an organization, to a field of journalism that one 400 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:38,880 Speaker 1: tweet at midnight and it's over. 401 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:40,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's sad. 402 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:44,640 Speaker 3: That's sad after a very long and storied and respectable 403 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:47,639 Speaker 3: and impressive career. The Terry Moran that you and I 404 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:53,240 Speaker 3: both know was passionate about journalism, passionate about the truth. 405 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 3: So we wish him well. We hope that he is 406 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:00,560 Speaker 3: doing okay. This is not an easy time when the 407 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:03,320 Speaker 3: world turns against you. We know what that feels like, 408 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:05,560 Speaker 3: and we wish nothing but the best for him, and 409 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:08,439 Speaker 3: we hope if he does choose to speak, he is 410 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:12,040 Speaker 3: able to explain for folks to understand where he was 411 00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:13,160 Speaker 3: and why he did what he did. 412 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:15,400 Speaker 2: But if he doesn't want to, that's okay as well, 413 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:17,080 Speaker 2: that's okay as well. 414 00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:19,960 Speaker 3: So thank you for listening to us, and we hope 415 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:21,879 Speaker 3: that we gave you a little bit more perspective about 416 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:26,040 Speaker 3: what goes on behind the scenes in newsrooms and just 417 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:29,359 Speaker 3: trying to figure out where this is headed and maybe 418 00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:31,679 Speaker 3: why we even got here. But hope that everyone just 419 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:34,240 Speaker 3: gives folks a little bit of a break sometimes when 420 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:42,400 Speaker 3: you hear the headlines