Speaker 1: Hey everyone, It's Jay Sheddy and I'm thrilled to announce
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Speaker 1: experience on purpose in person. Join me in a city
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Speaker 1: could be a celebrity, top wellness expert, or a CEO
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Speaker 2: Who you decide to partner with is one of the
Speaker 2: most important decisions you will ever make. If someone is
Speaker 2: not into you, they absolutely are not for you.
Speaker 1: World renowned relationship coach, podcast host, and speaker.
Speaker 2: It's the why me. This is never going to happen.
Speaker 2: People then get into this learned toplessness. This state that
Speaker 2: I am in is permanent.
Speaker 1: No, what are the three biggest mistakes I'm making in
Speaker 1: dating right now?
Speaker 2: Okay, so number one is the number one health and
Speaker 2: wellness podcast.
Speaker 1: Jay Sheety Jay Sheety mdy Only Shetty. Hey everyone, Welcome
Speaker 1: back to On Purpose, the place you come to become
Speaker 1: a happier, healthier, and more healed. Today's guest is Jillian Tareki,
Speaker 1: a relationship coach, teacher, podcast host, and speaker with over
Speaker 1: twenty years of experience helping people transform themselves and their
Speaker 1: love lives. As the founder of the Jillian Tareki Coaching
Speaker 1: she offers transformative workshops, retreats, and coaching that blends psychology, yoga,
Speaker 1: and somatic practices. Her teachings, influenced by diverse spiritual traditions,
Speaker 1: connect ancient wisdom with modern relationship dynamics. Jillian's first book,
Speaker 1: It Begins with You, has Nine Truths Everyone should know,
Speaker 1: the nine hard truths about love that will change your life.
Speaker 1: And it's going to be out on January fourteenth. Make
Speaker 1: sure you go and grab a copy if you're trying
Speaker 1: to figure out your love life right now. Please welcome
Speaker 1: to On Purpose, Jillian Tareki. Jillian, it's great to have.
Speaker 2: You here, wonderful to be here. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1: Of course, of course, I'm so fascinated by love and
Speaker 1: relationships and my last book was all about love and relationships,
Speaker 1: So whenever I get to sit down with a fellow
Speaker 1: coach and a fellow author to learn more and understand more.
Speaker 1: I'm a huge fan of the videos you post on
Speaker 1: social media, and I think you're doing such a great
Speaker 1: job of speaking about really, really interesting things when it
Speaker 1: comes to love. But I wanted to start off with
Speaker 1: asking you because this is I always trying to get
Speaker 1: a sense of what our audience is worried about and
Speaker 1: concerned about and challenge with. And one of the big
Speaker 1: things that keeps coming up is what are the three
Speaker 1: biggest mistakes I'm making in dating right now?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: What am I getting wrong about dating? That seems to
Speaker 1: be the top question.
Speaker 2: So there's a few things. One is it shouldn't just
Speaker 2: be the apps. I don't tell people get off the apps.
Speaker 2: Sometimes I say get on the apps. But if you
Speaker 2: just focus on that, that's going to burn you out
Speaker 2: and it's going to exhaust you and you're meeting a
Speaker 2: bunch of strangers. So that's like another mistake that people
Speaker 2: make is that they're impatient. It's not every day that
Speaker 2: you meet someone who you want to build a relationship with,
Speaker 2: like it's just not that easy. But you have to
Speaker 2: get out there. You have to be proactive. Look, there
Speaker 2: are people who are sitting around on their couch waiting
Speaker 2: for like that person to fall onto the couch next
Speaker 2: to them, and it's not going to happen that way.
Speaker 2: So you can either live your life to the fullest
Speaker 2: and enjoy your life and trust that one day organically
Speaker 2: it may or may not happen if you put yourself
Speaker 2: out there and you why din your circle, or you
Speaker 2: actually have to be proactive, and that might mean going
Speaker 2: on a like dating like it's your business, like going
Speaker 2: on a bunch of dates every single week with this
Speaker 2: low of an expectation as possible. Because one of the
Speaker 2: biggest mistakes that people make in dating, like I have
Speaker 2: nothing but compassion and empathy for this, but you're texting
Speaker 2: with someone, you're kind of excited, you feel like there's
Speaker 2: a vibe, and then you go out and you're like, oh,
Speaker 2: I don't feel spark or I'm not into it, and
Speaker 2: then there's this People then get into learned helplessness. And
Speaker 2: when they go into learned helplessness, they're like, you know,
Speaker 2: it's the why me. This is never going to happen.
Speaker 2: It's this state that I am in is permanent, like
Speaker 2: I will never find anyone.
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 2: Dating is really an opportunity for you to practice your
Speaker 2: social skills. Social skills are things that most people are
Speaker 2: not that great at. Honestly, even the people who think
Speaker 2: that they're really great at it. It takes a lot
Speaker 2: to really talk to someone and not interview them and
Speaker 2: actually be curious about them. You know, a lot of
Speaker 2: people are nervous. So practice and being comfortable in your
Speaker 2: body and getting to know someone, and who knows, maybe
Speaker 2: you make a friend and maybe you never want to
Speaker 2: see that person again, but at least you're practicing. So
Speaker 2: the three biggest mistakes is just focusing on the apps
Speaker 2: and not actually expanding your circle and doing new things
Speaker 2: and letting the certain things unfold organically. Number two impatience.
Speaker 2: Number three just sort of high expectations. But I want
Speaker 2: to add another one if I can. People will get
Speaker 2: into these very long I mean when I say long,
Speaker 2: like weeks texting exchanges with these people, and it gives
Speaker 2: them a false sense of intimacy. Oh I have this
Speaker 2: amazing connection. They never even met the person, and then
Speaker 2: maybe they never meet. Don't do that text a little
Speaker 2: bit back and forth like a day, and make a
Speaker 2: date to either meet on FaceTime zoom or in person.
Speaker 2: You really should go about it as if your time
Speaker 2: is too precious to waste texting back and forth with
Speaker 2: a stranger who may not be available for a month,
Speaker 2: for a month or more. And then you're getting all excited.
Speaker 2: I understand, like the thrill of it, and it's all
Speaker 2: it's exciting, but it's such a waste of time. Honestly,
Speaker 2: you know, meet the person.
Speaker 1: As you were speaking, I was thinking about what's at
Speaker 1: the root of that for so many people, and one
Speaker 1: of the things that came to me was this fear
Speaker 1: of rejection. So even the idea of I'm talking to
Speaker 1: this person for a month is because I don't have
Speaker 1: to potentially face meeting someone and them never wanting to
Speaker 1: meet me again, or the resistance that we have to
Speaker 1: make work and dating feel the same. I know so
Speaker 1: many people who will cancel on dates last minute because
Speaker 1: they're scared of well, what if I go and it
Speaker 1: doesn't work out. And rejection, by the way, is two
Speaker 1: types of rejection. One type of rejection is that person
Speaker 1: doesn't want me, and the other type of rejection is
Speaker 1: that person doesn't meet my expectations or that person I
Speaker 1: don't want to be with them. Yes, so I'm not
Speaker 1: just saying rejection in that we're scared of, well, what
Speaker 1: if that person doesn't like me. We're also scared of that,
Speaker 1: am I going to reject another person? And like you said,
Speaker 1: with the high expectations, what do we do about both
Speaker 1: of those types of our fear of rejection? Because let's
Speaker 1: take the more obvious one to start with. We all
Speaker 1: want to be loved, we want to be liked. We
Speaker 1: all want the next person to be the person. Yeah,
Speaker 1: chances are that's not going to happen. We know that, Yeah,
Speaker 1: but still we struggle with the fact that I'm going
Speaker 1: to meet someone and they're going to say, well, you're
Speaker 1: not right for me, or you know, don't don't really
Speaker 1: want to see you again. Like, how do you get
Speaker 1: over that? Because we talk about it in an entrepreneurship,
Speaker 1: we talk about it in life, but when you do
Speaker 1: it with love, it seems so personal.
Speaker 2: It's one thing to be rejected by the person you love.
Speaker 2: It's another thing to be rejected by a stranger who
Speaker 2: you don't know. This is just human nature. We go
Speaker 2: on dates even if we're not into the person, we
Speaker 2: want them to be into us or right yes, or
Speaker 2: like we find them. Let's say we find them attractive
Speaker 2: and then find out, wait, you're not into me, you
Speaker 2: don't find me attractive. Yeah, but life, really, the quality
Speaker 2: of our lives is very much determined by how well
Speaker 2: we can confront rejection. Like, you're not going to be
Speaker 2: for everyone. And I really believe this with all of
Speaker 2: my heart and soul. If someone is not into you
Speaker 2: for whatever reason, like let's say you're in the early
Speaker 2: dating process, they're not attracted to you, they're not feeling
Speaker 2: a spark, whatever it is, they absolutely are not for you.
Speaker 2: I can guarantee that. So it's important to build that
Speaker 2: resilience against rejection muscle. First of all, it makes a
Speaker 2: person more attractive. Second of all, it's just part of life.
Speaker 2: And I know that it's like you're putting yourself out there.
Speaker 2: But I wish there was like a magic pill that
Speaker 2: I could give people to just get over it. But
Speaker 2: you have to become more resilient when it comes to that.
Speaker 2: You know, you can't be hiding behind text and not
Speaker 2: actually meet the person. It sounds hard, but you have
Speaker 2: to be stronger than that. Honestly, you really really do.
Speaker 2: And you have to just trust that, like you're not
Speaker 2: for everyone and not everyone's for you. And yes, it's awkward,
Speaker 2: and maybe we can just all acknowledge the awkwardness of
Speaker 2: it all, you know, but you still have to If
Speaker 2: you want love and you want a relationship, you have
Speaker 2: to go for it. You can't just be passive.
Speaker 1: You're looking for one person to fall in love with
Speaker 1: you and for you to fall in love with yes,
Speaker 1: and for that you're going to have to meet a
Speaker 1: lot of people to find that one person. But all
Speaker 1: you need is one person to say yes, one person
Speaker 1: to say I do, one person to say I love you.
Speaker 1: And if you're only looking for one person, just by
Speaker 1: the nature of odds, you should know that that probably
Speaker 1: won't be the next person. So switching to that, you
Speaker 1: said one thing about kind of going in at the
Speaker 1: lowest baseline expectation, which I agree with, because then you're
Speaker 1: allowing it to become a friendship. You're allowing it to
Speaker 1: become a nothing ship. You're allowing it to become what
Speaker 1: it is. Yes, as opposed to us walking in and
Speaker 1: going this next person's going to be my wife, my husband,
Speaker 1: whatever it may be. Yeah, my partner. I think it's
Speaker 1: so natural for so many of us to want to
Speaker 1: speed up love. Yeah, like speeding up love seems to
Speaker 1: be our addiction and obsession with I just want to
Speaker 1: meet the one now that we're daying, I just want
Speaker 1: to get married now, you know, it's we're trying to
Speaker 1: accelerate love almost So how do we slow it down?
Speaker 1: And how do we take it back to baseline?
Speaker 2: Number one? Is there is no the one? There really isn't.
Speaker 2: I mean, we actually choose who the one is? And
Speaker 2: this is this is really really important. Love, as I'm
Speaker 2: sure you know, is a choice, Like it's a feeling
Speaker 2: for sure, But we're so conditioned to believe that love
Speaker 2: is just a feeling as opposed to a choice, and
Speaker 2: that when if you do decide to be with someone
Speaker 2: long term, you're going to have to make that choice
Speaker 2: many many times throughout your relationship, which is I choose you, right,
Speaker 2: So people want to rush it, and so what they
Speaker 2: do you and what I've done is that we lie
Speaker 2: to ourselves. And it's also because we've been lied by
Speaker 2: society that there is in romanticism, that there is this
Speaker 2: one person who's going to come into your life and
Speaker 2: rescue you and make your life better, and that once
Speaker 2: you find that person, like everything becomes easier. And I'm
Speaker 2: certainly not advocating for people being in difficult relationships, but
Speaker 2: the more challenges you've had in relationships, the less that
Speaker 2: you've been modeled what it is to actually really love someone,
Speaker 2: the more you are going to be challenged to overcome
Speaker 2: and transcend old things and old patterning to actually love
Speaker 2: someone and to do love to where it's a verb
Speaker 2: and not just a feeling. So how do we slow
Speaker 2: it down? And we just want to rush it? It's
Speaker 2: about acknowledging that feeling. So a lot of people they
Speaker 2: meet there's chemistry, and I know that this was me.
Speaker 2: I think if there's chemistry, then this is it as
Speaker 2: opposed to, well, maybe in the past there's been chemistry,
Speaker 2: and I haven't had chemistry with the right people, So
Speaker 2: maybe I need to slow down a little bit and
Speaker 2: sort of process my enthusiasm. And it's not about I
Speaker 2: don't want anyone to I don't want to reign on
Speaker 2: anyone's parade. Like all that stuff is really fun in
Speaker 2: the beginning, but you want to just say, okay, hold on,
Speaker 2: what am I feeling right now? This feels really good,
Speaker 2: this is really exciting. But I need to slow down
Speaker 2: because I actually need to uncover this person's character. I
Speaker 2: need to uncover their values. I perhaps need to get
Speaker 2: a little bit clearer on what it is that I need,
Speaker 2: what it is that I value, and what it is
Speaker 2: that I really really want, Not just my preference, but
Speaker 2: what do I need in order to function in a relationship.
Speaker 2: Do I have some understanding of myself? You know, it's
Speaker 2: difficult women, childbearing, age, societal pressures, get married. I understand.
Speaker 2: I have nothing but compassion for that. The more that
Speaker 2: I can stress that who you decide to partner with
Speaker 2: is one of the most important decisions you will ever
Speaker 2: make in your entire life. And we are meant to
Speaker 2: kind of get it wrong, and some of us get
Speaker 2: it wrong for a longer time than others right, But
Speaker 2: it is the most important decision. So if you're going
Speaker 2: to rush that, you're really truly doing yourself a disservice.
Speaker 2: And you have to get comfortable with the fact that, yes,
Speaker 2: you're scared. You're scared to be alone, you're scared to
Speaker 2: not be loved. You don't want to be in the
Speaker 2: dating world. I get all of that. Be mindful of it,
Speaker 2: you know, connect to that within yourself, and remind yourself
Speaker 2: always that who you decide to spend your life with
Speaker 2: might be one of the most important decisions, if not
Speaker 2: the most important decision, because there's no one in your
Speaker 2: life who's going to have a bigger impact on your
Speaker 2: overall well being and emotional state than the person who
Speaker 2: you choose to spend your life with. So you've got
Speaker 2: to take that decision very seriously and not rush it.
Speaker 1: I have often said to friends, there's the pain of
Speaker 1: being single, and there's the pain of being in the
Speaker 1: wrong relationship. Yes, and the pain of being single is
Speaker 1: a lot better than the pain of being in the
Speaker 1: wrong relationship.
Speaker 2: Agree one hundred percent agree on It's so.
Speaker 1: Hard when you're dating someone and you've got enmeshed into
Speaker 1: each other's lives. There's the toxicity, there's complexity, there's as
Speaker 1: you said earlier, there's a disconnect in your values the
Speaker 1: person's character. You think you just discovered it, but actually
Speaker 1: they showed it all along and you didn't see the signs,
Speaker 1: And now you're thinking, gosh, I was happier when I
Speaker 1: was single, and you can't see that when you're single,
Speaker 1: because the promise of being in a relationship is so
Speaker 1: alluring and intoxicating that we feel like I must have
Speaker 1: that now.
Speaker 2: Yes, and many of those people might think, yes, it's
Speaker 2: easier when I'm single, but they're actually free to go
Speaker 2: back to it, and that's why they stay in these relationships,
Speaker 2: because we fear the unknown.
Speaker 1: Why is it that we end up being attracted to
Speaker 1: people that are not into us, and then people who
Speaker 1: are into us we're not into them. Why does that happen?
Speaker 2: I'm going to give you some theories, and there are
Speaker 2: theories shared by many, but one thing that I say
Speaker 2: is that if anyone truly understood one hundred percent the
Speaker 2: answer to that, they would win the Nobel Peace Prize.
Speaker 2: Right because everyone has these theories and they're good theories
Speaker 2: and they're rooted in psychology. I really want to put
Speaker 2: out there that no one truly has the answer to that.
Speaker 2: But there's some really good theories. So one theory, when
Speaker 2: someone is not paying as much attention to us that
Speaker 2: could trigger attraction, and one of the reasons is, well
Speaker 2: maybe they are, like, maybe there's something really special about
Speaker 2: them and so we put them on a pedestal, and
Speaker 2: where we are on the spectrum of our self esteem
Speaker 2: impacts that greatly. So we are on the lower end
Speaker 2: of self este then we are going to meet people
Speaker 2: often and think that they are better than us. If
Speaker 2: our self esteem is on the healthy level, then we
Speaker 2: kind of are like, well, I'm not better than anyone else,
Speaker 2: and no one's really better than me. We are all one, right.
Speaker 2: And then there, of course there's the grandiosity, which is
Speaker 2: they think everyone is sort of below them in some way.
Speaker 2: But the people who I work with and most of
Speaker 2: the problems, and I think the people who probably write
Speaker 2: into you, there's more of a lower self esteem issue
Speaker 2: happening where they put someone up on a pedestal and
Speaker 2: they project unconsciously their ideal partner onto this person. Maybe
Speaker 2: this person looks exactly like a childhood crush or like
Speaker 2: you know, the actor who they were always in love with,
Speaker 2: or maybe there is just something about them and their
Speaker 2: vibe that they're like, this is the person that I want,
Speaker 2: and or maybe it's their job. The things on the surface,
Speaker 2: people will then think I must get this person, because
Speaker 2: if I get this person, then I'm actually getting everything
Speaker 2: that I've ever wanted in a partner. On the surface,
Speaker 2: if I get this person, I'm validated. I'm going to
Speaker 2: have a good life. Right, So it's all an illusion.
Speaker 2: It truly is all an illusion. Then there's like the
Speaker 2: deeper childhood wounds of my father was very rejecting. I'm
Speaker 2: putting this in the context just because I'm a woman
Speaker 2: who dates men, so I'm just thinking more. But it
Speaker 2: could be you know, obviously whoever you date, but if
Speaker 2: one of your parents was rejecting of you, and that's
Speaker 2: all you ever knew, and so you never really felt
Speaker 2: good enough. So actually, in dating and in love, your
Speaker 2: sort of like center of gravity psychologically is I work
Speaker 2: really hard to earn love as opposed to understanding or
Speaker 2: being used to no, Like, all I have to do
Speaker 2: is be myself and the right person is going to
Speaker 2: fall madly in love with me, right, you know, be
Speaker 2: myself with a little dosage of like also let me
Speaker 2: check myself.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: So people are used to that, They're used to the
Speaker 2: rejection they and then again the lower self esteem if
Speaker 2: they're not into me challenge accepted. So other people are
Speaker 2: just like there's a competitive edge. I'm going to be
Speaker 2: like I'm going to change this person, or I'm going
Speaker 2: to be the inspiration for their change, or I'm going
Speaker 2: to make them notice me. There's just a conglomerate of
Speaker 2: influences around that. Why are they not attracted to the
Speaker 2: person who's actually into them? Again, a lot of theories,
Speaker 2: and I think they're good ones. Fear of intimacy. You know,
Speaker 2: if and this is all unconscious, if I'm into the
Speaker 2: person who's into me, then we actually have to be
Speaker 2: in a relationship, and then I actually have to be vulnerable,
Speaker 2: and then I actually have to be emotionally available, and
Speaker 2: then we're going to build this thing. And like, ooh,
Speaker 2: that's icky and scary. What's easier for me is to
Speaker 2: go for the person who's completely emotionally unavailable, who's actually
Speaker 2: not that into me and may not even be that
Speaker 2: nice to me, but they're hot and there's something about
Speaker 2: them and I really want to have sex with them,
Speaker 2: and I'm just going to use that as sort of
Speaker 2: like an inn. There's some deeper healing needs to go
Speaker 2: on there, like that might require therapy, that might require
Speaker 2: looking into your family of origin and trying to understand
Speaker 2: that there could be like for a woman who's dating
Speaker 2: a man. You know, maybe she has a very misguided
Speaker 2: understanding of what it is for a man to be masculine. Right,
Speaker 2: So a woman typically is looking for lots of different things,
Speaker 2: but a lot of women who date men are looking
Speaker 2: for a man. Or she wants to feel safe. She
Speaker 2: wants to feel safe, and she wants to feel seen,
Speaker 2: she wants to feel understood. Maybe she's looking for some
Speaker 2: providership and maybe that has nothing to do with money,
Speaker 2: but just has to do with energy and vibe, right,
Speaker 2: And so then she'll look to the man who may
Speaker 2: on the outside seem strong. Maybe he's tough, you know,
Speaker 2: maybe his physique is big and strong. Maybe he's got
Speaker 2: a little bit of like that dark edge. So she
Speaker 2: reads it as, oh, he's going to protect me. There's
Speaker 2: something masculine and sexy about him. But on the inside,
Speaker 2: he's broken. He has no idea how to love because
Speaker 2: he doesn't know how to love himself. He's not safe.
Speaker 2: He's actually very unsafe. Even if not physically, he's going
Speaker 2: to be unsafe emotionally. And so there's a maturity that
Speaker 2: needs to happen to understand that, like your type, you
Speaker 2: have to get under the hood of the car a
Speaker 2: little bit more and understand, Like, if you're looking for
Speaker 2: those qualities in a person, and I'm just using this
Speaker 2: an example, then really what's actually going to be safe
Speaker 2: is someone with strong character, someone with presence, someone who
Speaker 2: has a sense of self, who can actually feel safe
Speaker 2: in his or her own body. And when they can
Speaker 2: feel safe in their body, they can actually provide safety
Speaker 2: for you in the relationship. And that you also have
Speaker 2: to understand how to make yourself safe. So there's a
Speaker 2: lot going on. I hope I'm not saying too much,
Speaker 2: but yeah, But so there's maturity level here, there's misguided
Speaker 2: understanding of what it is for someone to truly be
Speaker 2: embodied and safe and valued, and then there's also childhood
Speaker 2: wounding and they could be all part of it.
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Speaker 1: the code on Purpose. One of the biggest problems in
Speaker 1: relationships is that if someone's into us, we see it
Speaker 1: as their weakness. And if someone's not into us, we
Speaker 1: see it as their strength. And it goes back to
Speaker 1: where you start this book, is that it all begins
Speaker 1: with you, because all of that is made up in
Speaker 1: our minds because we're saying, oh, well, if you're into me,
Speaker 1: then that means you must be weak because you're into me.
Speaker 1: If you're not into me, then that means you must
Speaker 1: be really specially important because you're not into me. And
Speaker 1: so again it comes back to us. And so when
Speaker 1: you say it begins with you, you, how do we
Speaker 1: learn to acknowledge our strengths and accept our weaknesses? How
Speaker 1: do we learn to build our self esteem at the
Speaker 1: same time as have self awareness? Yeah, of our shortcomings?
Speaker 1: What does that look like?
Speaker 2: So it's difficult because when you're dealing with because what
Speaker 2: you've just said, like, if you're into me, then you
Speaker 2: must be weak, but if you're not into me, then
Speaker 2: you must be strong. That's all through the filter of
Speaker 2: low self esteem and low self worth. It's like, what's
Speaker 2: wrong with you that you are actually into me? It's
Speaker 2: not just about accountability. It's like, can you see how
Speaker 2: incredibly powerful you are that you can be the change
Speaker 2: that you want to see in your life. This isn't
Speaker 2: about like, oh, you're the problem. It's really rarely that
Speaker 2: it's one person who's the problem in a relational dynamic. Yes,
Speaker 2: it does exist for very extreme cases, and I'm never
Speaker 2: going to say that it's fifty to fifty. You know,
Speaker 2: it really could be someone who's seventy percent of the
Speaker 2: quote unquote problem and someone who's thirty percent. But if
Speaker 2: you can see that your relationship or your life is
Speaker 2: really the product of the choices that you make, and
Speaker 2: that it's not your fault if you didn't learn, Like,
Speaker 2: we're all trying to figure out what it really truly
Speaker 2: means to love someone. Philosophers have been talking about this
Speaker 2: for centuries, trying to understand what love is or is not,
Speaker 2: and especially if you were raised in a family where
Speaker 2: like your parents really kind of didn't love each other.
Speaker 2: You know, maybe they said they loved each other, but
Speaker 2: their actions would speak otherwise. So we're all really trying
Speaker 2: to do the best that we can do with the
Speaker 2: tools that we have. And really this book is just
Speaker 2: about giving tools. So how do you build self awareness
Speaker 2: and also have the self esteem. You're never going to
Speaker 2: raise your self esteem by being too precious with yourself.
Speaker 2: You have to be willing to be brave and to
Speaker 2: look at the hard things, but also at the same
Speaker 2: time knowledge how strong you are. Like, let's just start
Speaker 2: with that, Like all the miles that you've walked, all
Speaker 2: the things that you've had to overcome, all the struggles,
Speaker 2: all the late nights that maybe you've had of being
Speaker 2: really anxious, and yet you still manage to go to
Speaker 2: sleep and get up the next morning and get ready
Speaker 2: for work or get your kids ready. It takes a
Speaker 2: tremendous amount of resilience just to be a human being.
Speaker 2: So just acknowledge that and at the same time get
Speaker 2: really curious. We are very complex, weird creatures, you know,
Speaker 2: Like we're all so nuanced and quirky. Don't think that
Speaker 2: you're so unique in your problems, Like you are not.
Speaker 2: These these things that you worry about, millions of people
Speaker 2: are having the same worry at the same time. That's
Speaker 2: actually not what makes you unique. Your problems don't make
Speaker 2: you unique. The other beautiful things about you are actually
Speaker 2: what makes you unique. Yeah, The healing happens when you
Speaker 2: can acknowledge the way in which maybe you've been standing
Speaker 2: in your own way and contributing to whatever it is
Speaker 2: that you don't want to have in life.
Speaker 1: What's your take on the mindset that a lot of
Speaker 1: people can naturally again, I empathize with it too, can
Speaker 1: get stuck into, which is like there's no good men left, yeah,
Speaker 1: or this idea that all the good men are either
Speaker 1: taken or yeah.
Speaker 2: Or they don't exist anymore, emotionally unavailable.
Speaker 1: What happens when you've got into that place and let's
Speaker 1: say it's been a valid experience you've had, like the
Speaker 1: last three guys you were talking to ghosted you. Yeah, right,
Speaker 1: Maybe there was someone who you actually started dating. You
Speaker 1: were seeing them and then you asked them an important
Speaker 1: question to you or shared something vulnerably and now that
Speaker 1: person cut you out. So what do we do with
Speaker 1: the mindset? Because it could be valid or it could
Speaker 1: be something you came up with, but either way, what
Speaker 1: do we do with that?
Speaker 2: I've worked with hundreds of couples. I work with people
Speaker 2: at all stages of their relationship life, but a lot
Speaker 2: of singles are kind of like, you know, kind of
Speaker 2: the loudest because they want love and I understand that,
Speaker 2: and so I the first thing they work on is
Speaker 2: their mindset and their belief system, and so yes, all
Speaker 2: the good ones are taken, and yeah, I want to
Speaker 2: validate everyone who've had really hard experiences. So I'm going
Speaker 2: to tell story that's okay.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So I was out for dinner recently with some friends,
Speaker 2: one man and two women, and we were in New
Speaker 2: York City. I really care about this girl, like, you know,
Speaker 2: she helps me out, and I'm just like, I want
Speaker 2: to get you. I want to get your partner. I like,
Speaker 2: what's going on. I wanted to sort of like understand
Speaker 2: what was going on with her. I said, well, what
Speaker 2: is it, what is it that you believe about men?
Speaker 2: She's like, well, I just think all men really just
Speaker 2: want one thing sex. I was like, wow, interesting, I
Speaker 2: don't really think that's true. And then our guy friend
Speaker 2: who was there, was like, that's really not true. But
Speaker 2: she has this core belief and it's reinforced because she's
Speaker 2: gone on dates with men and they've sort of not
Speaker 2: really valued getting to know her and have made advances
Speaker 2: that were really inappropriate. But guess what, she gives them
Speaker 2: a second date, and then she gives them a second date,
Speaker 2: and then it's even more reinforced. And I said to her,
Speaker 2: and she wanted me to be really brutally honest with her.
Speaker 2: I said, first of all, that's actually not true. Sure
Speaker 2: it's true for some, but it's actually not true. There
Speaker 2: are actually men out there who will be very attracted
Speaker 2: to you in a way that they want to know
Speaker 2: more about you, Like they're drawn to you, they're magnetized
Speaker 2: to you. Yes, it's attraction in the beginning, it's less,
Speaker 2: but they want to they want to know you, and
Speaker 2: they want a relationship. There's millions of men single, men
Speaker 2: who want love and want a relationship, but you're choosing
Speaker 2: the ones who kind of suck and who just want
Speaker 2: that from you, And you are actually rewarding their behavior
Speaker 2: by giving them another date. So you're part of the problem.
Speaker 2: These men are getting rewarded because they're getting some smart
Speaker 2: and tent and beautiful woman. They're getting a second date
Speaker 2: after they are treating you like they could care less
Speaker 2: about you. So you are actually training these men to
Speaker 2: do more of what they already do, instead of being like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm not interested and absolutely never seeing them again, and
Speaker 2: deciding to be a little bit higher with your standard
Speaker 2: and a little bit stricter with your sort of boundaries
Speaker 2: about who you decide to date. I think that's actually
Speaker 2: a really good example of how someone can get really
Speaker 2: fixated on a belief. And your beliefs are what create
Speaker 2: your mindset. Then your reality becomes a reflection of your
Speaker 2: belief system, and yet you don't even realize the things
Speaker 2: that you're doing to reinforce it. Hence it begins with
Speaker 2: you and so having this conversation and also having like
Speaker 2: a really good looking partnered man at the table when
Speaker 2: I say good looking, I mean on the inside on
Speaker 2: the outside, like you know, a great catch, saying absolutely,
Speaker 2: that's not true, and then me pointing out her sort
Speaker 2: of pattern and all that we were able to kind
Speaker 2: of chip away at a belief that was actually the
Speaker 2: belief that's keeping her single. Yes, yeah, it's a combination
Speaker 2: of things of challenging yourself like is that really true?
Speaker 2: Where did I adopt that? How am I reinforcing that?
Speaker 2: Could it be true that I've had a couple of
Speaker 2: bad experiences? But sometimes that's the way the cookie crumbles,
Speaker 2: and that doesn't necessarily mean that it's everyone.
Speaker 1: Well, I think until we do that, we also keep
Speaker 1: repeating who we're attracted to as well.
Speaker 2: Yes, you have to change your type.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so often we're attracting and attracted to the same person,
Speaker 1: and therefore we keep having the same result and keep
Speaker 1: having the same experience of all men just one one thing.
Speaker 1: All men are x y Z or whatever, women all
Speaker 1: men or anything. Yeah, we start creating a mindset that's
Speaker 1: very embroiled in one particular type. But that's because we
Speaker 1: do keep going off to the same type.
Speaker 2: So you keep going for maybe the guy who you
Speaker 2: think is really smart, looks a certain way, has a
Speaker 2: certain job, or she looks a certain way or whatever,
Speaker 2: and you're so attached to that that you keep getting
Speaker 2: the same thing as opposed to the mindset shift has
Speaker 2: to be. Yes, listen, chemistry is important. You've got to
Speaker 2: be attracted to the person if you want to sleep
Speaker 2: with them, But you want to also train yourself to
Speaker 2: be drawn to certain qualities like someone's character, and give
Speaker 2: people who you are like, oh, you know, there's something
Speaker 2: kind of interesting about them. I don't know if I
Speaker 2: feel an immediate spark. Screw the immediate spark. Let's see
Speaker 2: if you're actually like who you are and when you're
Speaker 2: with this person, and I'm not saying endless amount of
Speaker 2: time you can't force chemistry, but it can sometimes turn
Speaker 2: on like a light switch after three or four dates.
Speaker 2: If when you get home from the date, you're like,
Speaker 2: I had a good time, but I'm not sure if
Speaker 2: I feel the spark. They're not really my type. That
Speaker 2: whole chatter.
Speaker 1: Interesting because we talk about the spark in chemistry so much,
Speaker 1: and it feels like we've got to talk about it
Speaker 1: for so many more years now to undo all the
Speaker 1: work that all the movies and that we grew up
Speaker 1: on did. Because I was thinking about this recently and
Speaker 1: I talked about it in my book, which was this
Speaker 1: idea of today. The word going around is someone's aura
Speaker 1: or their charisma, and this idea, and I'm like, I
Speaker 1: promise you, if you see someone's aura and you're attracted
Speaker 1: to it, so is everyone else in the room. So
Speaker 1: you're not special, and you don't have a special inclination
Speaker 1: towards that person. And chances are that that aura doesn't
Speaker 1: make them a good partner. Yes, And so you might
Speaker 1: be attracted when you walk in and you hear someone
Speaker 1: speak and you're like, Wow, they're so intelligent, they're amazing speaker.
Speaker 1: That's not their character. You walk in and you see
Speaker 1: someone in their dress really well and they've got all
Speaker 1: this swag in this charisma. That doesn't mean they're a
Speaker 1: good partner and have good character. You see someone who
Speaker 1: has an amazing job and makes all this money and
Speaker 1: drives a really great car. That's not their character, doesn't
Speaker 1: make them a good partner. And so it's almost like
Speaker 1: everything we're attracted to about someone isn't what makes them
Speaker 1: a good partner and makes them good at a relationship.
Speaker 1: You keep saying the word character, and I agree with you. Conundrum,
Speaker 1: what is that because we're not even seeing that. It
Speaker 1: seems like we look at how people think and we're
Speaker 1: attracted to that. We look at how people look and
Speaker 1: we're attracted to that. We look at what people do
Speaker 1: and achieve and we're attracted to that, and none of
Speaker 1: that makes someone a good partner. No, they're completely different things, right.
Speaker 2: Completely different things. Some of the most intelligent, charming, witty,
Speaker 2: beautiful people on the planet are also the most unhealthy
Speaker 2: and the ones who will harm you emotionally. I mean,
Speaker 2: it really is a cruel joke, isn't it. I'm never
Speaker 2: going to suggest that you date someone who you're not
Speaker 2: attracted to. I do think though, and I would really
Speaker 2: be curious to hear your thoughts day, Like I do
Speaker 2: think that with maturity and maybe that's age and wisdom
Speaker 2: and that looks different for everyone that you do start
Speaker 2: to find other things attractive, like for me personally, so
Speaker 2: one who's like really present with me and like a
Speaker 2: good listener. It's not a guarantee. If you're really present
Speaker 2: with me and a good listener, that doesn't mean I'm
Speaker 2: going to be attracted to you. But if you're not
Speaker 2: present with me and you're not a good listener and
Speaker 2: you're not interested, that's definitely going to be a turn off.
Speaker 2: Whereas in the past, I would have felt that in
Speaker 2: my body, I would have felt that red flag and
Speaker 2: then intuition that would have felt off in my body,
Speaker 2: but I would have suppressed this is what And I'm
Speaker 2: saying this about myself because I represent so many people
Speaker 2: who are I know do this too, because I see
Speaker 2: it all the time. Let me just repress that because
Speaker 2: I want to be seductive. I want to lure them in.
Speaker 2: I want the validation. I think they're hot, you know,
Speaker 2: maybe there's something there, And I think with maturity it
Speaker 2: translates as actually, no, like that's actually a really big
Speaker 2: turn off when we start to have a clearer sense
Speaker 2: of self. And I don't believe that anyone is ever
Speaker 2: fully whole. Ever, I think that's I think that's the journey,
Speaker 2: and I think that's the biggest lie. It's two whole
Speaker 2: people coming together. I mean, if that's really the truth,
Speaker 2: then we're all screwed, honestly. However, having no sense of
Speaker 2: self and no center is problematic too. Life isn't binary.
Speaker 2: It's not black or white, but it's we live in
Speaker 2: the gray area. But I do think that as we
Speaker 2: do get sent a clear understanding of ourselves, meaning what's
Speaker 2: important to us? You know, what are the things that
Speaker 2: we struggle with? Can we find some sort of self
Speaker 2: acceptance even in the midst of our greatest ambivalence towards
Speaker 2: the things that really we don't quite like about ourselves.
Speaker 2: Can we start to actually hold ourselves in high regard,
Speaker 2: even though we are keenly aware of our imperfections and
Speaker 2: the ways in which perhaps we're difficulty And to me,
Speaker 2: that's healing is really being able to be familiar with
Speaker 2: the parts of ourselves that are good and maybe not
Speaker 2: so great, and still accept ourselves and see that we
Speaker 2: have intrinsic value and that we deserve love. And I
Speaker 2: think that the more that we get an understanding of
Speaker 2: how to meet our needs better understanding what our needs are,
Speaker 2: learning how to stand on our own two feet emotionally
Speaker 2: for some people, that's financially whatever it is. Then who
Speaker 2: we are attracted to changes, and the things that maybe
Speaker 2: we used to be attracted to we're not so attracted to,
Speaker 2: or like, I mean, I've definitely in the last couple
Speaker 2: of years have been like, oh my god, like that
Speaker 2: is the guy totally would have gone for and like what,
Speaker 2: But I know that that is not right for me,
Speaker 2: So I kind of I just switch it off. I
Speaker 2: don't indulge it. It's like I can actually compart to
Speaker 2: menalize and be like, yes, totally attracted him, but I
Speaker 2: know that that would never be the right partner for me,
Speaker 2: So I don't even They're just putting this box over here,
Speaker 2: and I don't pursue that. Yes, that does not mean
Speaker 2: that I can't be attracted to a really good person.
Speaker 2: It just means that we can be attracted to many
Speaker 2: different people for many different reasons. And the more that
Speaker 2: we heal and grow, the more we find qualities that
Speaker 2: are maybe not so you know, charm for it, Yes,
Speaker 2: very attractive.
Speaker 1: I feel. One of the challenges from what I'm hearing
Speaker 1: from you is that a lot of us in our
Speaker 1: thirties are still chasing our sixteen year old crush and
Speaker 1: in forties, yes, and so we're wanting a relationship that
Speaker 1: we wanted back then, and because it was never satisfied
Speaker 1: in our teens or in our twenties, we still spend
Speaker 1: our thirties and forties looking for it. Yeah. So when
Speaker 1: we're in our teens, all we wanted was pleasure, fun
Speaker 1: in chemistry. But now if I actually look at what
Speaker 1: I want in my thirties or my forties, it's peace
Speaker 1: and it's a connection, and it's a sense of comfort
Speaker 1: as opposed to the unease of do we like each
Speaker 1: other today? Do we not like each other? So you
Speaker 1: asked me earlier or alluded to it. So I'm very
Speaker 1: attracted to my wife, but that isn't what's kept us together, right,
Speaker 1: That would be a very weak reason to stay with someone,
Speaker 1: because you can be attracted to many people again and
Speaker 1: again and again. The reason why you stay with someone
Speaker 1: is because there's peace, there's no drama. We both forgive quickly,
Speaker 1: we both move on.
Speaker 2: First say friendship.
Speaker 1: There's friendship. We deal with problems in a way that
Speaker 1: I enjoy. Like, what keeps you together? Isn't that? So? Yes,
Speaker 1: I'm still attracted to my wife, but we've been together
Speaker 1: for eleven years and married for eight, But that isn't
Speaker 1: what's kept us together. What I find attractive has not
Speaker 1: necessarily changed. I still find the same things attractive as
Speaker 1: I did when we first got together. But what I
Speaker 1: need for a long term, long lasting relationship is so
Speaker 1: much more than chemist an attraction. I have a friend
Speaker 1: that I was talking to the other day and she
Speaker 1: said she was out on a date. She got back
Speaker 1: from the day and she usually does this. She messaged
Speaker 1: me straight way and her messages said, Jay, he was perfect,
Speaker 1: he said all the right things. We have the same values,
Speaker 1: great family, guy character. I can't believe. I don't want
Speaker 1: to go out on a second date with him.
Speaker 2: Did you force her too? I hope you don't.
Speaker 1: Yes, I did. And I was like, wait a minute,
Speaker 1: what are you talking about, Like, how does that make
Speaker 1: any sense? Yeah? And it was just like because I
Speaker 1: was like yes, because of course, your sixteen year old self.
Speaker 2: Yes, wanted this shiny butterflies and almost danger like excitement.
Speaker 1: Yes, correct, And it wasn't there. And so it's so
Speaker 1: interesting to me about how we all have to mature
Speaker 1: and grow up, yes, to be like, what is my
Speaker 1: thirty forty fifty year old self? Whatever age you are, yeah,
Speaker 1: mid twenties, whatever, What do I actually want right now?
Speaker 1: What do I need right now? Yes? And let me
Speaker 1: not still be stuck in a sixteen year old mind,
Speaker 1: because we are more than we think we are. And
Speaker 1: I've also seen this for people who explored later on
Speaker 1: in life. Even friends who because of their cultural tradition,
Speaker 1: came out later on in their life, they found that
Speaker 1: their first few relationships, even though they were thirty one
Speaker 1: years old when they came out, they were still dating
Speaker 1: like a sixteen or eighteen year old because it was
Speaker 1: their first relationship. So it wasn't a material AIDS thing.
Speaker 1: It was a mental and relationship AIDS thing. So if
Speaker 1: you're someone who hasn't dated for a long time, yeah,
Speaker 1: your age of relationship is actually much younger than you're
Speaker 1: actual age.
Speaker 2: That's very well said, and that's very very true. There
Speaker 2: are people who are really accustomed to very unhealthy relationships,
Speaker 2: a lot of push pull dynamics, there's a lot of toxicity,
Speaker 2: and often their physical intimate lives are the glue. Is
Speaker 2: the glue that keeps it together, like that's the hot
Speaker 2: part of the relationship. And that person then might get
Speaker 2: out of it and say, well, I may not ever
Speaker 2: have sex like that again, and I tell them, no,
Speaker 2: you probably actually won't. But that's okay, because if you
Speaker 2: are at least attracted to someone and you feel safe
Speaker 2: with them, you can explore so much more. You can
Speaker 2: go into the depths of your vulnerability with this person
Speaker 2: and then create a sex life that can be very
Speaker 2: wonderful with that person, and that's what you want to do.
Speaker 2: For some people, they even say, you know what, I
Speaker 2: just I've deprioritized that. You know, they've been through so
Speaker 2: much crazy in their relationships that they actually have made
Speaker 2: the decision. It's not that it's not important, but they've
Speaker 2: deprioritized it because they've associated with so much pain. So
Speaker 2: everyone is on a different journey. But ultimately the sixteen
Speaker 2: year old self, like, you just have to just acknowledge
Speaker 2: that person and be like, no, you're not in charge,
Speaker 2: because what you want is actually not good for you absolutely. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah. One of your hard truths that I loved is
Speaker 1: truth number five. You must speak up and tell the truth. Yes,
Speaker 1: And I was going to ask you, what's the difference
Speaker 1: between telling the truth and being worried about being too
Speaker 1: honest too early on? Because it's almost like we want
Speaker 1: to share our truth and we want to be honest,
Speaker 1: but we don't want to scare them away. We don't
Speaker 1: want to overstep. Yeah, it's a fine balance, and I
Speaker 1: think it's hard for people, like you said earlier, we
Speaker 1: also want them to like us. And yeah, so what
Speaker 1: does that look like for me?
Speaker 2: What I tell people, I think you should be as
Speaker 2: direct and honest from the very beginning, and I think
Speaker 2: that that's actually very attractive. That is different, however, than
Speaker 2: sharing your entire childhood pain to a stranger. So that's
Speaker 2: not the honesty I'm talking about. Someone has to kind
Speaker 2: of earn that information, and I don't think it's appropriate
Speaker 2: to share everything like that with a stranger. I think
Speaker 2: that has to go a little bit more slowly. There's
Speaker 2: a progression to getting to know someone. It's like you
Speaker 2: know someone, then you're getting closer, and then you're sharing
Speaker 2: a little Then you're starting to open up and be vulnerable.
Speaker 2: You don't have to do that on the first date.
Speaker 2: But in terms of honesty of what it is that
Speaker 2: you really want, what it is that you really need,
Speaker 2: I think right from date one, I agree, this becomes
Speaker 2: more complicated in when you're actually in a relationship. You know,
Speaker 2: I spent many years not really telling the truth. I've
Speaker 2: worked with many couples where there's a lot of love,
Speaker 2: but they weren't telling the truth. Fear of not being enough,
Speaker 2: fear of abandonment, fear of rejection. This is where rejection
Speaker 2: really is intense, when we already love the person. Fear
Speaker 2: that we might disappoint our partner, fear that they will
Speaker 2: never look at us the same way, fear that they
Speaker 2: will resent to all of that, and these are very real.
Speaker 2: But withholding the truth is what becomes the sickness in
Speaker 2: the relationship. And I always say, you don't just have
Speaker 2: the hard conversations for you or for your partner. You
Speaker 2: do it in service of love. You do it in
Speaker 2: service of the relationship. When two people in a relationship
Speaker 2: have the mindset, since we've been using that word, have
Speaker 2: the mindset of I'm going to protect our relationship, that's
Speaker 2: the priority. Sure, you're a priority priority, but what we
Speaker 2: are building together that's our baby, Like, that's the priority.
Speaker 2: And so if it means having to have really uncomfortable conversations,
Speaker 2: if it means having to say something instead of going
Speaker 2: into what's familiar, which is stuffing it down and becoming
Speaker 2: resentful and then hating your partner for it, It's like,
Speaker 2: whenever we have a higher purpose, whenever we feel like
Speaker 2: there's something that we're working towards, we will do what
Speaker 2: it takes. We'll climb that mountain, we'll transcend that ego,
Speaker 2: we'll transcend our fears because we're doing it in service
Speaker 2: of something greater than ourselves. And in a relationship, your
Speaker 2: relationship has to be the thing that's greater than the
Speaker 2: two of you. That's the encouragement that I want to
Speaker 2: have people to have to tell the truth, because it
Speaker 2: really sucks when you don't. It's very hurtful.
Speaker 1: I love that, and I think the challenge I've seen
Speaker 1: with that is our ego. Going back to something you
Speaker 1: mentioned right at the beginning, that we want the other
Speaker 1: person to make us feel important. We want them to
Speaker 1: know that we don't need them, but we really do.
Speaker 1: Like it becomes about and I don't want to just
Speaker 1: say games because I think everyone thinks they don't play games,
Speaker 1: so I don't want to use that language. But but
Speaker 1: we all do.
Speaker 2: But we all do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, But there's just this feeling of like, I love
Speaker 1: what you just said. You said the most important thing
Speaker 1: is to protect the relationship, which is beyond both of you.
Speaker 1: But most of us can't look beyond ourselves and we
Speaker 1: want the other person to look beyond themselves. But when
Speaker 1: they don't do it, we're like, well, then why will
Speaker 1: I do it? And then it becomes this, you know,
Speaker 1: back and forth. So if someone has withheld information or
Speaker 1: broken trust in that way, not being honest because of
Speaker 1: the fears you mentioned earlier, which I think we're very
Speaker 1: well and clearly laid out, how do you repair that?
Speaker 1: What does that look like?
Speaker 2: Well, it depends on what the withholding or the lies
Speaker 2: are about. Sometimes it's you're withholding a truth of just
Speaker 2: how you feel, and that's like not as much of
Speaker 2: a betrayal to the other as it is to oneself,
Speaker 2: which is I'm not speaking up, I'm not telling you
Speaker 2: how this landed in my body for me and how
Speaker 2: angry I am at you, because no one will lie
Speaker 2: to you more than you'll lie to yourself. And so
Speaker 2: a big part of telling the truth begins with telling
Speaker 2: the truth to ourselves because oftentimes we don't want to
Speaker 2: look at it. It's hard, We suppress it, we don't
Speaker 2: want to express it. But how do you repair from that? Well, again,
Speaker 2: it depends. Maybe you need a third party understanding you
Speaker 2: know what exactly, what were the boundaries that were crossed
Speaker 2: to what degree? How much can you find compassion for
Speaker 2: the person when they were withholding the truth? How much
Speaker 2: can you see that it actually wasn't personal and that
Speaker 2: it was just something that they were doing because they
Speaker 2: were afraid. You repair with a lot of listening, a
Speaker 2: lot of communication, and possibly with a third party. But yeah,
Speaker 2: it's not easy, and it depends on the degree of again,
Speaker 2: if it's actually a betrayal or this is hard. But
Speaker 2: we have to learn to not take so many things
Speaker 2: so personally because oftentimes, and I'm not talking about infidelity
Speaker 2: and things that are really detrimental to the sanctity of
Speaker 2: a relationship, but oftentimes people are doing that and they
Speaker 2: just were too afraid. It's like, well, why didn't you
Speaker 2: tell me how you feel. You have to tell me
Speaker 2: how you feel, and yes, you kind of do, and
Speaker 2: you have every right to feel sort of like a
Speaker 2: mini betrayal from that, like how can I show up
Speaker 2: for you? How can I be in this relationship if
Speaker 2: you don't tell me how you feel? And that's very valid,
Speaker 2: But if the other person can say, you're right, I
Speaker 2: was afraid, this is what I was afraid of, And
Speaker 2: then two people are really starting to tell the truth
Speaker 2: and now we're really getting into the deep stuff and
Speaker 2: getting vulnerable.
Speaker 1: We also expect the other person now to change their habit.
Speaker 1: So we're waiting for the one therapy session after which
Speaker 1: our partner will be transformed. We're waiting for one coaching
Speaker 1: session after which our partner will be the person that
Speaker 1: they promised to be. And it almost feels like we're
Speaker 1: we just are looking for this moment where they're going
Speaker 1: to get it and the penny's going to drop and
Speaker 1: they're going to be like this new, profound individual. And
Speaker 1: that's just not reality. Like people are going to change
Speaker 1: if they want to over a number of years. Yes,
Speaker 1: And the key part of that is if they want to,
Speaker 1: and a number of years and a number of years
Speaker 1: and we're so focused on No, they have to change,
Speaker 1: they have to change, They have to change.
Speaker 2: But it begins with you because there's something that has
Speaker 2: to change in you as well. Because if there's something
Speaker 2: going on in the dynamic and you love this person
Speaker 2: and it's a good relationship, otherwise you are contributing in
Speaker 2: some way, whether you know it or not, to them
Speaker 2: not feeling comfortable to telling the truth. Like people come,
Speaker 2: they come to a couple's counseling and a couple's therapy,
Speaker 2: they sit down and inevitably both people are thinking the
Speaker 2: other person so that I can be okay in this relationship,
Speaker 2: when really it's when we change ourselves. We actually can
Speaker 2: influence the relationship and the change and the other Not always,
Speaker 2: but a lot of the times we can. If you
Speaker 2: have the belief they just need to change and be
Speaker 2: fixed and we're going to be okay, you are in
Speaker 2: for a run for your money because that's actually not true.
Speaker 2: Like maybe they do have to change more than you,
Speaker 2: but there are things that you need to change in
Speaker 2: this dynamic as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we really convince ourselves, though we do.
Speaker 2: We reach another lie we tell ourselves.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we really convince ourselves it's a one way thing, yeah,
Speaker 1: and that if they were to change the entirety of
Speaker 1: who they were, and then people say, oh, well, you
Speaker 1: keep giving them the benefit of the doubt if you
Speaker 1: don't do that, And I think that's the balance that
Speaker 1: we're trying to strike is how do you give someone
Speaker 1: the benefit of the doubt that it's not personal, and
Speaker 1: at the same time hold yourself and them accountable for change.
Speaker 2: If you want your partner to change. That's we're getting
Speaker 2: into sticky territory. You have to accept your partner for
Speaker 2: who they are, but also you can have expectation that
Speaker 2: they want to grow. And look, I mean if we're
Speaker 2: not growing in a relationship, meaning trying new things together
Speaker 2: and also separately, you know, following our dreams in some
Speaker 2: way or you know, even in our own personal lives,
Speaker 2: just being willing to pick up a book or try
Speaker 2: a new thing, the relationship is going to get very boring.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's really what we're trying to do in
Speaker 2: so many ways in a relationship is how to combat
Speaker 2: in a long term relationship, how do we combat boredom?
Speaker 2: And really it starts with are we becoming more interesting?
Speaker 2: Are we growing? Are we trying new things? You know,
Speaker 2: are we not just are we doing new things together?
Speaker 2: But are we doing things individually? But if you fundamentally
Speaker 2: think that your partner needs to completely change who they are,
Speaker 2: you're not with the right person. But if you can
Speaker 2: accept them for who they are but also want them
Speaker 2: to evolve and change certain things about themselves, look, many
Speaker 2: people will come will have to come to a moment
Speaker 2: where they ask themselves, is this enough? You know, like,
Speaker 2: can I tolerate this? And all I would say is no,
Speaker 2: one is perfect. Everyone's growth is ultimately their own business,
Speaker 2: their own evolution, their own business, and people grow in
Speaker 2: different ways. But if you want an apple, then you
Speaker 2: have to sit under an apple tree, not sit in
Speaker 2: like a pear tree and then expect the apple to
Speaker 2: come down. So you have to know who your partner
Speaker 2: is fundamentally and be okay with that.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, you agree with that? Yeah, well said, yeah, no, absolutely,
Speaker 1: I could agree with you more. I think that one
Speaker 1: of the reasons we struggle to accept people the way
Speaker 1: they are is because we've never taken an interest in
Speaker 1: how they became the way they are. We don't actually
Speaker 1: have context of why they became this way. That question
Speaker 1: of what happened to you, how did you end up here?
Speaker 1: And when you start uncovering all of that, you start
Speaker 1: realizing it's so not about you, and it's all about them.
Speaker 1: And by the way, the same is true for you.
Speaker 1: And how did you become this way? And how did
Speaker 1: you expect all of this to be this way? And
Speaker 1: so I feel like that You've talked about this a
Speaker 1: few times today, this idea of curiosity, learning about your partner,
Speaker 1: understanding how they got there, and all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: when you understand that, you go, oh my gosh, I
Speaker 1: get it now, And now I understand how long it
Speaker 1: will take to unwire or rewire that as well, if
Speaker 1: they want to, and if they notice it. As opposed
Speaker 1: to this idea of well, I snapped my fingers, and
Speaker 1: you should get it. You should know how I feel immediately. Yes,
Speaker 1: I agree with you completely. I don't think there's at
Speaker 1: least in my relationship. I learned that the smart way
Speaker 1: to be early on was respecting my partner's values and
Speaker 1: having her respect mine, and not trying to change our
Speaker 1: values because we couldn't. Like I don't think I could
Speaker 1: change deeply.
Speaker 2: My core value, your core ones.
Speaker 1: No, I can't, And if someone was trying to change them,
Speaker 1: I'd find that very uncomfortable. And if I was trying
Speaker 1: to change theirs, I'd find that very own comfortable. And
Speaker 1: so I'm with you on the idea of you've got
Speaker 1: to accept them the way they are, and if you don't,
Speaker 1: then that's okay too. It's okay to move on and leave.
Speaker 2: Yes it is, or you know, but always know that,
Speaker 2: like you know, there's no one who's actually perfect. Yes,
Speaker 2: you know, that does not exist. And I think that
Speaker 2: I do think that people know that intellectually, Jay, but
Speaker 2: I don't. But I still think that a lot of
Speaker 2: people expect perfection in others. You know, one mistake that
Speaker 2: many people have made is it's okay that I'm flawed,
Speaker 2: but unconsciously I'm looking for this person who's so perfect,
Speaker 2: who's going to actually make up for the deficits that
Speaker 2: I have in my in my personality and make up
Speaker 2: for the deficits that are actually inside of me.
Speaker 1: I think we've got so disconnected, going back to it
Speaker 1: begins with you. It's just we've got so disconnected from
Speaker 1: knowing ourselves and knowing what's right for us and what's
Speaker 1: good for us.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I feel like the amount of people that are just
Speaker 1: constantly seeking advice from anyone and everyone in their life
Speaker 1: and not listening to them and not listening to themselves.
Speaker 1: And you have one text thread over here with like
Speaker 1: nine girlfriends, and then you have you post it on
Speaker 1: Instagram and say I'm dealing with this on my stories
Speaker 1: just to your private friends, and then you reach out
Speaker 1: to your family and your parents, and so you're talking
Speaker 1: to like twenty seven non experts about something in your life,
Speaker 1: and no wonder you're confused because everyone has their own opinion,
Speaker 1: someone saying give them another chance, someone saying, oh leave them,
Speaker 1: someone you know, and you've just got these You've also
Speaker 1: got actions to take without understanding. Yes, And I wanted
Speaker 1: to ask you, if there is no the one, how
Speaker 1: do you know who to focus on? How do you
Speaker 1: know who to kind of make it work with?
Speaker 2: Number one? The person who treats you well. And that
Speaker 2: doesn't mean I think that you know, when we're in
Speaker 2: a relationship for long enough, we will unconsciously hurt each
Speaker 2: other's feelings, and sometimes we will, even the most mindful
Speaker 2: of us will behave or say something or do something
Speaker 2: that's not filled with a lot of mindfulness. You know
Speaker 2: will act unconsciously, but fundamentally, you want the person who
Speaker 2: treats you well, who respects you, who you feel good around.
Speaker 2: You feel like you can safely express an opinion. You
Speaker 2: feel like you can be yourself with them. That's so important.
Speaker 2: I think that is probably one of the most underrated
Speaker 2: criteria for choosing a partner is can you really be
Speaker 2: yourself with them? I'm not talking about be your bad self,
Speaker 2: your lower self with them, but can you actually be
Speaker 2: who you are? Do you feel comfortable in your skin
Speaker 2: when you're with this person or do you have to
Speaker 2: hide parts of yourself so that they can accept you?
Speaker 2: So I think that's the most important thing. And so
Speaker 2: someone with whom you share values, someone with whom can
Speaker 2: you agree on what a life well lived is, because
Speaker 2: you can have there could be a wonderful connection with someone,
Speaker 2: But to them, they want to live a nomadic lifestyle
Speaker 2: and you're like, no, no, no, I want to root
Speaker 2: and have children. Like it's not going to work. You
Speaker 2: might have a great love affair, but you're never going
Speaker 2: to work long term. So agreeing on what a life
Speaker 2: well lived is there's some compatibility and just in terms
Speaker 2: of core values. I think that's incredibly important because when
Speaker 2: in the duration of your relationship things get really hard.
Speaker 2: Life happens, family members die, maybe illness happens, money, whatever
Speaker 2: it is, it's your values. It's not your sex life.
Speaker 2: It's your values. Like as you were saying that, there's
Speaker 2: not attraction or chemistry, your values that are going to
Speaker 2: really keep you together. And I think it's you know,
Speaker 2: that person who if you had to be stranded on
Speaker 2: a desert island like that would be the person you'd
Speaker 2: want to choose. And that's how you know, and all
Speaker 2: their little eccentricities that annoy you and like maybe they're
Speaker 2: not as neat in the kitchen as you would like,
Speaker 2: or maybe they're not exactly the height, or you know,
Speaker 2: maybe they've got some stuff that like you can go
Speaker 2: down the list and be like, that's not my preference.
Speaker 2: Those are the things you need to tolerate and accept
Speaker 2: because they have the other things of values. You enjoy
Speaker 2: being touched by them, you enjoy kissing them like there's
Speaker 2: attraction there. You agree on what a life well lived is,
Speaker 2: and you really feel comfortable being who you are when
Speaker 2: you're with them.
Speaker 1: Does the one that got away actually exist.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I think that's a story that people
Speaker 2: tell themselves.
Speaker 1: Why do we do that?
Speaker 2: What I've seen is we've made some poor choices, and
Speaker 2: so that we look back at that person and we
Speaker 2: romanticize them and pedestal them and actually see them maybe
Speaker 2: better than what they were, better for us, and so
Speaker 2: we get into our heads and we romanticize them. So
Speaker 2: I'm not quite sure. What I do know for sure
Speaker 2: is that if you tell yourself that story, well then
Speaker 2: you're just like sealing your fate, that there's just no
Speaker 2: one else out there for you. And to me, that's
Speaker 2: part of the whole romanticism theory that keeps us very
Speaker 2: stuck and suffering.
Speaker 1: I agree. Yeah, it's almost like that nostalgia effect. Yes,
Speaker 1: you look back on everything and it was always so
Speaker 1: much better, I know, And if you actually went back there,
Speaker 1: you'd be like, this was the worst thing. Just go
Speaker 1: and find an old journal when you're a kid or
Speaker 1: a dary whatever and look back at it and be like, oh,
Speaker 1: life wasn't as great as I pretend to think it
Speaker 1: was exactly, And nostalgia just makes everything seem so much
Speaker 1: more romantic and beautifully colored.
Speaker 2: Quite manipulative, isn't it.
Speaker 1: It really is. It's what you said, it's a protective
Speaker 1: mechanism of oh, things used to be better, and you
Speaker 1: know that's a safe space, and I feel good. But
Speaker 1: actually it's not really protecting you because it's like you said,
Speaker 1: it's manipulating you into unhealthy belief. You have a beautiful
Speaker 1: quote in the book where you say, stay in your head,
Speaker 1: and your relationship is dead. And I think that's partly it.
Speaker 1: That we stay in our head in relationships in a
Speaker 1: lot of ways. Some of them can be negative thoughts.
Speaker 1: Some of them can be doubts, some of them can
Speaker 1: be questioned, some of them can be you know, ruminating
Speaker 1: on the past. Yes, how do we get out of
Speaker 1: our heads and get out of those repetitive thoughts? Yeah?
Speaker 2: I love talking about this because I'm someone I tend
Speaker 2: to lean sort of intellectual, and when I am not centered,
Speaker 2: I leaned, as a lot of people do, and a
Speaker 2: lot of women these days anxious. So I can get
Speaker 2: like very like ruminating, analytical and all that. So I
Speaker 2: feel very equipped. And also when I work with so
Speaker 2: many people, I mean the stories that they tell themselves
Speaker 2: about themselves and about their partner that's not rooted in
Speaker 2: the truth because they're not communicating. I mean, that's the
Speaker 2: stories in our heads that ruin relationships. So how do
Speaker 2: we get out of our heads. Well, we start telling
Speaker 2: the truth and we start communicating. Like that's like the
Speaker 2: low hanging fruit, Like build enough self awareness, and this
Speaker 2: picks practice where you can say, oh, I'm in my
Speaker 2: head right now, I am getting lost in a story
Speaker 2: right now, because it's a habit. And some people really
Speaker 2: have a bad habit of getting lost in such a
Speaker 2: story about another person and then get themselves so worked up.
Speaker 2: And so what you have to do is keep practicing.
Speaker 2: That's that storyteller in me right now, that's that storyteller.
Speaker 2: Maybe something else is true? Could something else be true?
Speaker 2: Let me communicate. Getting out of our heads is also
Speaker 2: getting in our bodies. So exercise, movement, breath work, going
Speaker 2: for a long walk, having a long healing conversation with
Speaker 2: a friend, doing something where you're social. If we're too
Speaker 2: much in isolation and we're spending too much time with ourselves,
Speaker 2: we're too much in our heads. So it's a really
Speaker 2: beautiful strategy to get out of our heads. When we
Speaker 2: see a friend or two, or we even go to
Speaker 2: something that we're invited to and just because then our
Speaker 2: attention is outwardly focused. Like right now, our attention is
Speaker 2: outwardly focused. Yes, we have to go a little inward
Speaker 2: to kind of think. You have to go inward to
Speaker 2: kind of think of the question, right, I have to
Speaker 2: go a little bit inward to kind of give you
Speaker 2: an answer. But we're very because we're having this like commnsation.
Speaker 2: It's just you and me, and the lights are on
Speaker 2: us and the cameras are rolling. We're outward focused, and
Speaker 2: when we're alone, everything is so inward focused. So moving
Speaker 2: our bodies is always the easiest, fastest way to get
Speaker 2: out of our heads. It's really and it's daily movement.
Speaker 2: It's like, oh, in my head, I'm going to go
Speaker 2: for a walk. Oh I'm going to have in my head.
Speaker 2: Maybe I have to take a cold shower, get out
Speaker 2: of this state. Maybe I have to talk to someone.
Speaker 2: But it starts with the awareness of you know, my mind.
Speaker 2: All of our minds can be become battlefields. Our mind
Speaker 2: can be a beautiful thing, but if we don't stand
Speaker 2: guard of our mind, we are going to be in
Speaker 2: serious trouble. And no one is invulnerable to that.
Speaker 1: As we're talking about it, one thing that came to
Speaker 1: my mind is just how we're really focused on starting
Speaker 1: things as humans, and we're good at reacting to when
Speaker 1: things end, and we're really complacent and ignorant in the middle. Yeah. Right,
Speaker 1: we've talked a lot today about dating and then we're
Speaker 1: talking about when things go wrong, and maintenance is not
Speaker 1: something we find interesting exactly right, It's so true. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's not something as humans that we like maintaining a home,
Speaker 1: like building a home, designing a home, that's cool. Yeah,
Speaker 1: when if you leave something and you're finding something new,
Speaker 1: that's that's interesting. It's something to pay attention to. Sure,
Speaker 1: But maintenance is something that we ignore so much. And
Speaker 1: I was thinking if you could recommend a reflection someone
Speaker 1: could do with their partner right now, whether they're stuck
Speaker 1: or maybe it's like, what if something feels almost right
Speaker 1: but not fully right, as in there's nothing wrong? Huh,
Speaker 1: what do you do in that situation? Because I think
Speaker 1: a lot of people find themselves there where it's like
Speaker 1: they're in that maintenance phase. You're not getting married, you're
Speaker 1: not you know, you're not having the big moment, and
Speaker 1: you're not you're not kind of ending it like there's
Speaker 1: nothing there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you're just kind of like coasting, maybe borderline
Speaker 2: a little bit bored or complacent.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So like let's say this couple has kids, stop making
Speaker 2: your kid it's the only focus of your life. You
Speaker 2: have to your children actually want you to focus on
Speaker 2: each other. That's what's going to be really good. Like
Speaker 2: you are benefiting your children's mental health and lives when
Speaker 2: you are connecting with each other. So that's important. Shake
Speaker 2: things up a little bit, whether that's individually or together.
Speaker 2: Go on a date, try something new, bring some novelty,
Speaker 2: whether that's in the bedroom or completely outside of the bedroom.
Speaker 2: Take some time to really connect with each other. Maybe
Speaker 2: it's sitting down and having a meal and just being like, Okay,
Speaker 2: we're going to put the phones away and we're going
Speaker 2: to really connect and maybe we're going to talk about
Speaker 2: something a little bit deeper today. And I went to
Speaker 2: I had dinner over to friends last night and it
Speaker 2: was so wonderful, Like we just went into really deep stuff.
Speaker 2: I mean also sprinkled in with a little fun and
Speaker 2: silly stuff, but we just went into very deep stuff
Speaker 2: and it's like, wow, this is so refreshing to be
Speaker 2: around people where you could be vulnerable and open. And
Speaker 2: I think couples kind of you I want to be
Speaker 2: doing that all the time because you need a little levity.
Speaker 2: So this is an interesting thing as a couple. Maybe
Speaker 2: you have to do a temperature check, like do we
Speaker 2: need a little bit of levity? Like do we need
Speaker 2: a little bit of lightness? Have we been too bogged
Speaker 2: down with their routines? Are we talking about the relationship
Speaker 2: too much and we need to have some fun? Then
Speaker 2: do something new, Do something fun, Do something that you
Speaker 2: would have done in the first three months of your
Speaker 2: relationship a few years in and watch the change happen
Speaker 2: in your relationship and build it into your weekly routine
Speaker 2: or at least your monthly routine. If your relationship is
Speaker 2: kin you're feeling a little disconnected, right, So it's not
Speaker 2: the lack of levity, but there's the lack of connection.
Speaker 2: Get vulnerable. Maybe maybe connect in the bedroom or outside
Speaker 2: of the bedroom, have a real heart to heart. Maybe
Speaker 2: do something new that's also very bonding. Touch each other
Speaker 2: and I'm not even talking in a sexual way, but
Speaker 2: are you touching each other? Like do you put a
Speaker 2: hand the leg or on the shoulder. Are you being
Speaker 2: present with each other? Again? This is the part that's mindfulness,
Speaker 2: and it really sometimes it's so little that has a
Speaker 2: huge ripple effect, and it's just a matter of, oh,
Speaker 2: this is what we need, and one of you take
Speaker 2: the leadership role in that way, be like, Okay, let's
Speaker 2: do this. I really want to do this. It shouldn't
Speaker 2: be framed as like, oh, you know, we need this.
Speaker 2: Otherwise it's just like I would really love this. Wouldn't
Speaker 2: this be so lovely if And sometimes it's just let
Speaker 2: me change something in me. Maybe it's not even a
Speaker 2: conversation with your partner, it's how you're showing up. Maybe
Speaker 2: you've grown a little complacent towards the relationship, towards your life,
Speaker 2: towards anything. Maybe you need to shake things up a
Speaker 2: little bit inside yourself and bring a little bit more
Speaker 2: of the part of you, because we all have so
Speaker 2: many different parts to our psyche and our personality. Maybe
Speaker 2: bring a little bit more of what you brought in
Speaker 2: the beginning of the relationship now.
Speaker 1: And that.
Speaker 2: Kind of always does the trick if people are willing switching.
Speaker 1: From going back to the beginning of the relationship, looking
Speaker 1: at the end of a relationship. Yeah, if someone's broken
Speaker 1: up with you, what's the best self reflection exercise that
Speaker 1: you'd recommend to someone If someone's just broken up.
Speaker 2: With them, Well, if they're just in the shock and
Speaker 2: the pain of just broken up after they air, yeah
Speaker 2: I would. Yeah, I would say after that because in
Speaker 2: the beginning, it's more just like how can I survive
Speaker 2: and who's going to support me? Right, But when you're
Speaker 2: sort of out of that initial shock of pain, you're
Speaker 2: still hurt and you're still sad, but you're ready to
Speaker 2: self reflect. One of the hardest things to do yet
Speaker 2: most important things to do, and maybe you'll never one
Speaker 2: hundred percent get clear, is how did I contribute to
Speaker 2: whatever did not work? And how did they contribute? It's
Speaker 2: so hard not to go into the blame game and
Speaker 2: just blame them for everything and blame ourselves for anything,
Speaker 2: but true self when it comes to the end of
Speaker 2: a relationship is can I have some clarity around some
Speaker 2: of the patterns that I have that have contributed to
Speaker 2: whatever didn't work? And can I get clear about what
Speaker 2: they did and what their patterns were that really didn't work?
Speaker 2: And that's a process, and it's a journey of self reflection.
Speaker 2: But I think that is absolutely important to start with,
Speaker 2: what are some of the ways in which maybe I
Speaker 2: have contributed to what didn't work?
Speaker 3: There?
Speaker 2: Is there something in my self esteem that needs to
Speaker 2: be worked on? Is there something that I learned from
Speaker 2: childhood that maybe isn't working? And then to add to
Speaker 2: that is what did I contribute that really worked? What
Speaker 2: are my strengths in relationship? Because you have to reflect
Speaker 2: on that too. How was I really really loving? Maybe
Speaker 2: I was too loving to a fault, but I'm still loving,
Speaker 2: you know, And I'd rather be too loving to a
Speaker 2: fault than not loving at all, you know. So those
Speaker 2: are some of the questions that we need to ask ourselves,
Speaker 2: and those are hard. You know, I've gone through tremendous
Speaker 2: heartbreak and just having to go through that, but I
Speaker 2: was so hell bent on I don't want to this
Speaker 2: to ever happen again.
Speaker 1: So what do I have to do?
Speaker 2: And look? Accountability in a relationship wherever the relationship is,
Speaker 2: and the beginning, middle, or end is the most important thing.
Speaker 2: If you cannot take responsibility for being another human being
Speaker 2: in this dynamic, then you are essentially a nightmare to
Speaker 2: be in a relationship with and I hate to be
Speaker 2: so blunt, but it's true. Accountability is everything. That's not
Speaker 2: about taking all the blame, but we have to be
Speaker 2: able to own our stuff. And when two people are
Speaker 2: doing that, I really think that there's tremendous healing that
Speaker 2: can happen between two people if they're willing.
Speaker 1: To do that. Killian, thank you so much for your
Speaker 1: insights today. It's been really wonderful having this back and
Speaker 1: forth with you of just kind of thinking about all
Speaker 1: the different iterations, moments, phases of a relationship. And we
Speaker 1: end every episode of On Purpose with a final five Yes,
Speaker 1: fast five. Every question has to be answered in one
Speaker 1: word to one sentenced maximum. Okay, so Jillian and Toureki,
Speaker 1: these are your fast five. The first question is what
Speaker 1: is the best love advice you've ever heard or received?
Speaker 2: No one is perfect. Figure out what you can tolerate
Speaker 2: and what you can't tolerate.
Speaker 1: I like that second question is what is the worst
Speaker 1: relationship advice you've ever heard?
Speaker 2: You don't have to lean on your husband when you're
Speaker 2: going through a miscarriage. You just lean on your mother
Speaker 2: and your sister. That was the worst advice that I
Speaker 2: got from a therapist someone said that to you. Yeah,
Speaker 2: a therapist said.
Speaker 1: That, let's take a detour to focus on that list. Yeah,
Speaker 1: how did that feel?
Speaker 2: Very confusing. I understand when you're in a relationship that
Speaker 2: your partner should not be your only confidante. That it's
Speaker 2: really important to have some community or other people around
Speaker 2: you that you go to, Like you don't have to
Speaker 2: go to your partner for every single thing. Yeah, to
Speaker 2: have other sources. But if you're going through the miscarriage
Speaker 2: and you can't lean on your partner, to me, that
Speaker 2: sounds insane. But I think her intention was don't lean
Speaker 2: on him for everything. And so I took that on as,
Speaker 2: oh my god, you know, I'm being too dependent or
Speaker 2: to doing being too codependent, And it was very confusing.
Speaker 2: And it was only later on when I started to
Speaker 2: do this work where I recognize that that was the
Speaker 2: worst piece of advice I've ever received ever from anyone.
Speaker 1: And I've especially in that situation, and.
Speaker 2: Especially in that situation, and I could not disagree with
Speaker 2: it more. That's exactly who you should be leaning on,
Speaker 2: and it's exactly who you should feel safe leaning on.
Speaker 1: Question number three. One of your hard truths is number eight,
Speaker 1: no one is coming to save you. What do you do?
Speaker 2: Save yourself and choose someone who's going to have your
Speaker 2: back while you do that?
Speaker 1: The right answer? And question number four truth and number
Speaker 1: nine you say you must make peace with your parents.
Speaker 1: Why is that so important?
Speaker 2: What I will say first, because I think this is important.
Speaker 2: I don't in the book. I do say if you
Speaker 2: were sexually abused or terribly abused, I would no way
Speaker 2: tell someone to make peace with your parent. What I
Speaker 2: would encourage them to do is to figure out how
Speaker 2: to become the hero of their story rather than just
Speaker 2: the survivor. Even if you never speak to your parent again,
Speaker 2: you have to figure out a way to question the
Speaker 2: story that you have about them so that you are
Speaker 2: looking at them and thinking of them through the lens
Speaker 2: of your adult self and not your child's self, because
Speaker 2: if you don't, that is going to infiltrate your romantic
Speaker 2: life and cause you a lot of problems. I wish
Speaker 2: I was one word, but the time absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1: And fifth and final question, if you could create one
Speaker 1: law that everyone in the world had to follow, what
Speaker 1: would it be?
Speaker 2: Oh? I normally say something, and then later I'm explained
Speaker 2: that one lare Oh my god, letting go is so
Speaker 2: much easier than clinging. Letting go is so much easier
Speaker 2: than clinging. It's really hard, but your life will be
Speaker 2: so much better than clinging if you learn to just
Speaker 2: let things be.
Speaker 1: Jill Interrechti, thank you so much. The book is called
Speaker 1: It Begins with You, The Nine Hard Truths about Love
Speaker 1: that will change your life. You can grab your copy
Speaker 1: right now. You heard about some of the hard truths
Speaker 1: in this conversation, but I hope that you'll dive into
Speaker 1: the book to learn and understand so much more. It's
Speaker 1: out on January fourteenth. I'm sure this will be out
Speaker 1: while you're watching this. The book will be out already
Speaker 1: or very very soon. Julian, thank you so much for
Speaker 1: coming on on purpose. Thank you for sharing so wonderfully.
Speaker 1: And I'm excited for people to connect with your content
Speaker 1: online and continue to follow along to see how much
Speaker 1: more they can learn about love. And thank you for
Speaker 1: reminding us all that it begins with you.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you so great.
Speaker 2: Thank you you too.
Speaker 1: If you love this episode, you're going to love my
Speaker 1: conversation with Matthew Hussey on how to get up over
Speaker 1: your ex and find true love in your relationships.
Speaker 3: People should be compassionate to themselves that extend that compassion
Speaker 3: to your future self, because truly extending your compassion to
Speaker 3: your future self is doing something that gives him or
Speaker 3: her a shot at a happy and a peaceful life