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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. This is Masters in

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Speaker 1: Business with Barry Ricolts on Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 2: This week on the podcast. Jeff Becker chairman and CEO

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Speaker 2: of Jennison Associates. They're part of the Pigeum family of

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Speaker 2: asset managements. Jennison manages over two hundred billion dollars in assets.

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Speaker 2: Jeff has really a fascinating background, from Arthur Anderson to

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Speaker 2: Altus to ion G. Eventually he becomes CEO of Voya

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Speaker 2: when the parent company spun out the US holdings into

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Speaker 2: a separate entity. Really a fairly unique career path and

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Speaker 2: is sort of uniquely situated to look at the world

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Speaker 2: of investing. Jennison launched way back in nineteen sixty nine

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Speaker 2: as a growth equity shop. Their focus is on generating

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Speaker 2: alpha with high conviction concentrated portfolios. They've put off a

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Speaker 2: damn good track record over the years. I thought this

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Speaker 2: conversation was really interesting. There aren't many people who have

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Speaker 2: this sort of perspective and perch to see the world

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Speaker 2: of investing from both an institutional and insurance based perspective

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Speaker 2: and a long term retail investment perspective. I thought this

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Speaker 2: conversation was really interesting, and I think you will also

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Speaker 2: with no further ado my conversation with Jennison associates Jeff Becker.

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Speaker 2: So let's start with your background. You get a bachelor's

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Speaker 2: in economics from Colgate and then an MBA in finance

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Speaker 2: from n YU. Stern. Sounds like you had been thinking

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Speaker 2: about finance as a career right from the start.

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Speaker 3: Quite the contrary, Berry, I had no idea what I

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Speaker 3: wanted to do in college or coming out of college.

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Speaker 3: I was a liberal arts major. My parents felt strongly

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Speaker 3: about getting you know, me a liberal arts degree and

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Speaker 3: having me learn how to read and write effectively, and

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Speaker 3: so that was the goal. I was in economics, an

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Speaker 3: English major. Econ was the closest thing you could get

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Speaker 3: to business in some of those schools, and so, you know,

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Speaker 3: that's what I majored in. You know, I had no

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Speaker 3: real guidance in terms of finance. Neither of my parents

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Speaker 3: were in the financial industry, and so I did what

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Speaker 3: most students did in those days. As you saw on

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Speaker 3: the board who was coming up to interview and potentially

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Speaker 3: hire undergrads, and I saw that what were in those

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Speaker 3: days the big eight accounting firms were coming up to hire,

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Speaker 3: and they had this program where they would hire Liberal

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Speaker 3: Arts graduates, have them work, and as part of the arrangement,

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Speaker 3: would pay for you to go to grad school. So

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Speaker 3: it was a combin find program through Arthur Anderson to

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Speaker 3: go to NYU. And they were originally paying for a

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Speaker 3: master's in accounting, but ultimately everyone parlayed that into an

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Speaker 3: MBA in finance.

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Speaker 2: Huh. Really interesting And did you end up at Arthur

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Speaker 2: Anderson for any length of time?

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Speaker 1: I did? I did.

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Speaker 3: I ended up there for for seven years. It was

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Speaker 3: It was a terrific experience. It was a great company.

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Speaker 3: You know, in those days, these companies hired you know,

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Speaker 3: crops of undergrads, they trained them together. We learned everything

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Speaker 3: you know across from accounting, to auditing, to to UH

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Speaker 3: tax and valuation. I ended up in what was called

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Speaker 3: the Valuation Services Group, where we valued real estate and

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Speaker 3: businesses either for transactions or for m and A activity.

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Speaker 3: And it was a terrific company, a great learning experience.

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Speaker 3: They sent you out to clients very early on in

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Speaker 3: your career, and you also got people management skills pretty

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Speaker 3: early on.

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Speaker 2: So learning to value real estate, learning to value companies

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Speaker 2: sounds like you're going into private equity and private credit

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Speaker 2: down the road, like that seems to be the path

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Speaker 2: these days. What was that experience like and how did

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Speaker 2: it affect how you look at investments today?

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Speaker 3: You would have thought that I didn't know what private

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Speaker 3: equity or private credit really was. At the time I

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Speaker 3: had started to shift more and more into real estate.

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Speaker 3: The background of tearing apart financial statements and balance sheets

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Speaker 3: and discounted cash flow analysis was a great foundation really

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Speaker 3: for anything in you doing finance ultimately, So it was

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Speaker 3: a great experience in that regard. But I was starting

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Speaker 3: more and more to specialize in real estate, and as

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Speaker 3: a result, I got hired away by one of Anderson's clients,

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Speaker 3: which was ETNA, and ETNA had a very large commercial

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Speaker 3: real estate business. As you may recall, the insurance companies

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Speaker 3: had huge commercial loan portfolios in those days that they

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Speaker 3: were using to backstop long dated life insurance liabilities. It

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Speaker 3: seemed like the perfect match of asset and liabilities until

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Speaker 3: real estate valuations bottomed out and the life companies ended

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Speaker 3: up with a whole bunch of mortgage loans that were underwater.

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Speaker 3: That led to a terrific experience for me being part

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Speaker 3: of the workout of all of those loans in the

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Speaker 3: early nineties. So we did foreclosures, we did restructurings, we

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Speaker 3: did equity kickers, and we pulled up some of these

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Speaker 3: loans into CMBs deals and sold them through Wall Street.

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Speaker 3: It was really a terrific experience and really bred out

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Speaker 3: of a crisis.

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Speaker 2: And I just want to emphasize we're not talking the

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Speaker 2: beginning of the pandemic in twenty twenty. We're not talking

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Speaker 2: about the financial crisis in eight oh nine. You're talking

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Speaker 2: about really the post SNL crisis late eighties, early nineties,

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Speaker 2: where a ton of commercial real estate suddenly took a

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Speaker 2: big hit. Eventually you become chief credit officer covering real estate.

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Speaker 2: Tell us a little bit about that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I was. I was part of, you know, the

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Speaker 3: management that ultimately had to determine, you know, the valuation

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Speaker 3: and the credit approval of the different transactions that we

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Speaker 3: were working on. Whether that was originally putting out new

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Speaker 3: mortgage loans and determining whether it was a you know,

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Speaker 3: a good credit for the insurance company capital, or when

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Speaker 3: we got into the restructuring period, it was about was

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Speaker 3: this the right deal, Were these the right terms? You

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Speaker 3: know for us as we as we tried to salvage

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Speaker 3: the portfolio.

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Speaker 2: And then following ANA, you end up at Altus Investment Manager,

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Speaker 2: your CFO there. What was that like, going from analyzing

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Speaker 2: credit to being chief financial officer for an investment firm.

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Speaker 3: Well, one of the things we were doing by working

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Speaker 3: out the troubled mortgage loan book at ETNA is we

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Speaker 3: were also working ourselves out of a job. So the

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Speaker 3: job was to wind down the portfolio, and we were

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Speaker 3: actually given retention agreements that were two years in duration,

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Speaker 3: and at the end we essentially were out of jobs.

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Speaker 3: That was a little bit scary for an early career endeavor,

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Speaker 3: but by the same token, it was the first time

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Speaker 3: in my life I ever saw a six figure payment

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Speaker 3: come at one time, and it was quite rewarding at

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Speaker 3: an early stage in my career. So I knew I

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Speaker 3: was going to be out of a job. ATNA was

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Speaker 3: up in Hartford, Connecticut, so I was up there alone

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Speaker 3: as a young man, and I went to the head

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Speaker 3: of HR at ETNA, and I said, this has been

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Speaker 3: a terrific experience, but my gig is up and I'm

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Speaker 3: probably going to head back to New York City. Is

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Speaker 3: there anything that I should look at within ETNA. She

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Speaker 3: happened to be a Colgate grad. Took an interest in

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Speaker 3: me as a Colgate grad and said, yeah, we've got

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Speaker 3: this great little third party institutional investment manager named Altis

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Speaker 3: Investment Management. It runs pretty independently, has about one hundred

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Speaker 3: billion in assets. I'm going to send you over there

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Speaker 3: to meet the young Dynamic make CEO. There a guy

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Speaker 3: named John Kim. So I went over and met John.

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Speaker 3: We had a terrific three hour conversation and at the

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Speaker 3: end of the conversation, he said, you're hired. And I said,

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Speaker 3: I'm hired. What am I going to do? And he said,

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Speaker 3: I don't know, we'll figure it out, but I think

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Speaker 3: you're going to be CFO. And I said, well, I

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Speaker 3: know Arthur Anderson is on my resume, but I actually

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Speaker 3: have never practiced accounting and so I'm not sure that's

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Speaker 3: the right role for me. And he said, wow, we've

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Speaker 3: got a really strong finance team and a good strong controller.

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Speaker 3: I want you to be a more strategic CFO. I

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Speaker 3: want you to work on structured deals m and a

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Speaker 3: levers of profitability. And so that turned into a CFO role,

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Speaker 3: which again is a terrific experience for anything you do.

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Speaker 3: Really understanding how businesses make money and the levers of

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Speaker 3: profitability is a great experience.

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Speaker 2: Huh. So how do you go from Altis to ING

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Speaker 2: Investing Management? What was that transition like?

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Speaker 3: Well, in two thousand and three, I fired etna's financial

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Speaker 3: businesses and that was the life insurance, retirement and asset

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Speaker 3: management businesses, and so Altis went along with that. With

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Speaker 3: that acquisition, Ing had been on a buying spree around

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Speaker 3: the world and in the US, buying up insurers and

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Speaker 3: other businesses, and had ultimately ended up with about six

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Speaker 3: asset managers brands that are now all gone. Altis the

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Speaker 3: one I came to the party with Pilgrim Firm and Cells,

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Speaker 3: Lexington Partners, Relia Star Research, the original Ing Investment Management.

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Speaker 3: But Ing did not want to see these runs as boutiques. Ultimately,

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Speaker 3: in the long run, Ing had a very integrated model,

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Speaker 3: a mono brand approach to the world, and wanted to

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Speaker 3: bring all these asset managers together. So I was selected

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Speaker 3: to help lead the integration of these asset managers, which

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Speaker 3: was which was an interesting project. Each of these asset

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Speaker 3: manag had a CEO. These boutiques were pretty fiercely independent

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Speaker 3: and it was a bit of a bumpy ride as

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Speaker 3: we as we brought them together, but ultimately we did.

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Speaker 3: We you know, we started out in some cases with

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Speaker 3: four small cap equity teams, and in some instances we

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Speaker 3: selected one and not the others, and others instances we

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Speaker 3: might have combined teams, and in other instances we started

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Speaker 3: all over. So it was, you know, a multi year

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Speaker 3: project to really bring all of what were the acquired

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Speaker 3: asset managers into one integrated IG Investment Management, and ultimately

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Speaker 3: I was the CFO of that initially and then later

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Speaker 3: the COO, the CEO at the time, came to me

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Speaker 3: and said, you did a terrific job on the integration project.

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Speaker 3: You can be ce CFO or COO. Which one do

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Speaker 3: you choose? And I said, well, can I be both

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Speaker 3: and and he said no, I can't do that right now,

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Speaker 3: so you have to pick one, and I chose CFO.

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Speaker 3: And my rationale was the CFO is always at the

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Speaker 3: head table because there's always a financial implication to everything

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Speaker 3: you do. So that's where I started, but ultimately did

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Speaker 3: become COO as well.

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Speaker 2: Eventually ING changes its name to Voya and everything is

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Speaker 2: now branded Voya that were either of these other pieces

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Speaker 2: or ING and you rise to the role of CEO.

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Speaker 2: How did that come about and what was it like

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Speaker 2: going from COO and CFO to CEO.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it happened because of another crisis in two thousand

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Speaker 3: and eight, the Great Financial Crisis. ING had gotten overexposed

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Speaker 3: in mortgages and had to take a loan from the

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Speaker 3: Dutch state to shore up their Tier one capital ratios.

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Speaker 3: And as part of that deal with the Dutch government,

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Speaker 3: ING agreed to sell off the US properties. If you

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Speaker 3: can remember back to the start of the financial crisis,

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Speaker 3: it was viewed as largely a US and so I

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Speaker 3: think there was a desire to shed the businesses that

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Speaker 3: you know where the where the subprime mortgage bubble had

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Speaker 3: burst ultimately, and so I was I was working for

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Speaker 3: the head of ING Investment Management. But when I decided

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Speaker 3: to take this loan, there was a change in leadership

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Speaker 3: and my boss became head of I in g America's

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Speaker 3: all of the insurance, retirement and life businesses, and I

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Speaker 3: became a CEO of ING Investment Management, which later became Voya.

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Speaker 3: The way I found out that I was becoming CEO

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Speaker 3: of I G I Am. Was a bit of an

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Speaker 3: interesting story. I was coaching my son at a U

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Speaker 3: twelve hockey tournament up in the Northeast and my cell

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Speaker 3: phone kept ringing while I was on the bench yelling

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Speaker 3: at kids to skate harder and get into the get

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Speaker 3: into the corners. And it kept ringing, and it was

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Speaker 3: my boss. And it was a Sunday, And eventually, in

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Speaker 3: between periods, I picked it up and and it was

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Speaker 3: my boss. At the time was a gentleman named Rob Leary,

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Speaker 3: a terrific mentor of mine, who said, I need you

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Speaker 3: to get down to my house tonight. I said, Rob,

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Speaker 3: I'm up in the Boston area. He lived in Greenwich, Connecticut.

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Speaker 3: He said, no, you have to be here, and I said,

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Speaker 3: am I fired? And because if so, I'm not coming down.

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Speaker 3: Just tell me now. I'm going to finish the game.

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Speaker 3: And he said, no, you're not fired, but you have

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Speaker 3: to get down here. So I made my way down

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Speaker 3: to Greenwich, Connecticut, and I proceeded to learn that I

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Speaker 3: and G had taken the loan from the Dutch state

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Speaker 3: and that in the morning before we woke up, because

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Speaker 3: Europe's ahead, it was going to go public and my

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Speaker 3: boss would become the CEO of the Americas and I

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Speaker 3: would become the CEO of the investment management firm, and

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Speaker 3: we planned what was going to happen. The next morning.

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Speaker 3: I was going to have to assure our investment teams,

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Speaker 3: our clients, our pension consulting partners that everything was going

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Speaker 3: to be okay and that we were you know, we

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Speaker 3: were still in business. But as you can imagine, it's

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Speaker 3: incredibly hard to run an asset manager with a for

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Speaker 3: sale sign on your back. Because Ing had announced that

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Speaker 3: it would dispose of the US businesses. So another crisis

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Speaker 3: bred opportunity for me. I had to actually tell my

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Speaker 3: team of peers that I was now their boss. Because

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Speaker 3: it was so chaotic that no one came in to

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Speaker 3: actually deliver that message. I had to deliver it myself.

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Speaker 3: But it was a great team and we rallied together

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Speaker 3: and we built the business, grew it coming out of

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Speaker 3: the financial crisis, and then that ultimately became the business

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Speaker 3: that we spun out as Voya.

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Speaker 2: So two questions that first, I have to get the

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Speaker 2: date of this, Like, was this right in the middle

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Speaker 2: of the crisis? Was it towards the tail ends when

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Speaker 2: did you get this Sunday hockey phone call?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I was about the middle of two thousand and nine.

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Speaker 3: So two thousand and eight, you know, as you remember Barry,

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Speaker 3: fourth quarter was chaotic. We were having global calls, trying

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Speaker 3: to preserve capital. Who knew what was failing next. And

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Speaker 3: then as we got into two thousand and nine, companies

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Speaker 3: were starting to sort out, you know, where they were,

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Speaker 3: and that's and it was about mid two thousand and

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Speaker 3: nine where Ing decided to take the state aid.

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Speaker 2: But the second question is he couldn't have told you

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Speaker 2: that over the phone, Like, I know, they want everybody

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Speaker 2: in the room when you're planning, but now, no, this

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Speaker 2: is good news. You're getting a promotion. Get down here.

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Speaker 2: It's important. That's a stressful drive from Boston to granted

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Speaker 2: it was I.

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Speaker 3: Think he was being extra cautious given it that it

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Speaker 3: was material, non public information and pretty significant information at

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Speaker 3: that and also we needed to be up and running

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Speaker 3: in New York Monday morning, and so he needed to

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Speaker 3: make sure I was down Sunday night.

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Speaker 2: Gotcha. That's really that's really quite fascinating. How did you

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Speaker 2: end up going from Voya to Jennison Associates? What drew

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Speaker 2: you there.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I wasn't necessarily looking for a new role. I

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Speaker 3: was enjoying joining the role at Voya, being CEO of

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Speaker 3: the asset manager. I was on the executive committee. I

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Speaker 3: was learning new skills being part of quarterly earnings calls

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Speaker 3: and and and you know, helping grow that business as

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Speaker 3: part of a new company and new brand. But at

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Speaker 3: the same time, I was probably deep down ready for

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Speaker 3: a change. I had been with the company for twenty years,

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Speaker 3: but really it had changed around me, from Altus to

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Speaker 3: ETNA to two I n G and and then DA Voia,

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Speaker 3: and so I was ready for a change. I said

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Speaker 3: that to myself that if I left, it would not

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Speaker 3: be for another insurance or bank owned asset manager. And

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Speaker 3: no disrespect to those those businesses. I had terrific experiences

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Speaker 3: and opportunities presented to me there, but I just felt that,

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Speaker 3: you know, a new experience, maybe going back to something

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Speaker 3: more independent or private would would be the uh would

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Speaker 3: be the move for me. But I got the call

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Speaker 3: and from a recruiter, and Jennison was an intriguing company

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Speaker 3: to me. It's you know, just well known quality firm,

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Speaker 3: strong results, impressive client roster and I'd heard it had

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Speaker 3: a great culture, so I was intrigued and agreed to

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Speaker 3: have have some meetings and really really got quite interested

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Speaker 3: in the business. I thought the people were outstanding that

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Speaker 3: I met, They validated the culture, the client list and

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Speaker 3: roster truly was impressive. What you know, what I had

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Speaker 3: to get my head around is that it was owned

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Speaker 3: by an insurance company. However, part of pgm's multi boutique model,

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Speaker 3: and that was that was very appealing to me. I

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Speaker 3: think for this stage of the asset management industry, a

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Speaker 3: multi boutique model is a good model. You get the

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Speaker 3: asset class specialization, you get the entrepreneurialism in the boutique,

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Speaker 3: but you get the benefit of being part of a

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Speaker 3: large your manager that has access to wealth management platforms, capital,

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Speaker 3: global distribution. So it seemed like a very good business

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Speaker 3: model that allowed for sort of the best of both worlds,

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Speaker 3: and you know, I was therefore attracted to it and

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Speaker 3: really have not regretted the move one bit.

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Speaker 2: Really interesting talk a little bit about Jennison. You mentioned

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Speaker 2: they had been around a while nineteen sixty nine. They've

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Speaker 2: been around for let's call it fifty plus, almost sixty years.

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Speaker 2: What sort of traditions and cultures made that longevity so

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Speaker 2: attractive to you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it was all around reputation. And the history is

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Speaker 3: that Jennison, founded in nineteen sixty nine, was really one

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Speaker 3: of the first independent institutional asset managers. In those days,

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Speaker 3: all the institutional asset management was done out of the banks,

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Speaker 3: and there were seven founders who decided that maybe they

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Speaker 3: could do it better, and they left their banks and

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Speaker 3: they set up the business in the in the Drake

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Speaker 3: Hotel in New York City and they started to u

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Speaker 3: they started to invest. They they ultimately were growth investors,

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Speaker 3: but growth investing was not even known at the time. Uh,

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Speaker 3: you know, the Russell one thousand growth didn't even exist.

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Speaker 3: But the team started investing in what they believed to

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Speaker 3: be the fastest growing companies, the disruptors of the time,

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Speaker 3: and really became there for one of the earliest true

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Speaker 3: growth investors. And the founder that that that survived the

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Speaker 3: the you know, almost the entirety of the business and

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Speaker 3: and was there when I arrived was sig Sigalis, who

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Speaker 3: was an iconic investor again really one of the first

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Speaker 3: dedicated growth investors. He was an incredible investor but also

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Speaker 3: an incredible man.

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Speaker 2: Uh.

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Speaker 3: He worked right up until he passed two years ago

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Speaker 3: at eighty nine, literally until the week before. He was

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Speaker 3: never going to retire. He you know, he he was

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Speaker 3: someone who taught me a lot, He taught the firm

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Speaker 3: a lot. But at the end of the day, he

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Speaker 3: was an intense competitor who wanted to win. But he

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Speaker 3: was very values based. Everything was about the client and

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Speaker 3: about values. And he had a great saying, which was

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Speaker 3: do what's right for clients, and that'll always be right

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Speaker 3: for the business. And I think those are pretty pretty

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Speaker 3: sage words. And if you're serving your clients well, you're

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Speaker 3: going to both retain and get new clients. And in fact,

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Speaker 3: if you look at our you know our client roster,

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Speaker 3: two thirds of our clients have been with us for

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Speaker 3: more than ten years and forty percent more than twenty years.

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Speaker 2: Wow, that's pretty substantial. I'm kind of intrigued by the concept.

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Speaker 2: And I mean I was a kid in nineteen sixty nine.

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Speaker 2: I think I was seven or eight years old, but

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Speaker 2: the idea that growth investing was like a novel concept.

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Speaker 2: I get the idea that, hey, this was kind of

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Speaker 2: the early days of a bear market that went on

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Speaker 2: for another decade. But tell us what does it mean

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Speaker 2: to be growth oriented investors when there's no such thing

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Speaker 2: as a typical growth index or a value index.

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Speaker 3: And what growth investing has meant for Jennison and it

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Speaker 3: is it is the original legacy and uh an original

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Speaker 3: book of business for the firm. We've extended from there.

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Speaker 3: But growth investing for us has really been about high conviction,

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Speaker 3: deep fundamental research driven active management management. And you know,

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Speaker 3: we're we're concentrated manager. We take we take large positions

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Speaker 3: in in concentrated portfolios, and we're really striving to be

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Speaker 3: that high alpha equity manager for for pension plans and

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Speaker 3: for wealth allocators, and often we're part of an asset

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Speaker 3: allocation and you know, we're you know, we're the alpha

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Speaker 3: in the corners, if you will. And you know, I

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Speaker 3: think that's the right place to play as a fundamental

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Speaker 3: active equity manager because the hollow has been middled, because

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Speaker 3: the middle has been hollowed out. And you know, at

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Speaker 3: the end of the day, no one's going to pay

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Speaker 3: active management fees for two to three tracking error equity.

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Speaker 2: Huh. That makes a lot of sense. So I got

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Speaker 2: to ask two questions about concentration and deep conviction. First,

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Speaker 2: what is a concentrated portfolio. I've seen a lot of

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Speaker 2: people describe themselves as concentrated portfolios and they're fifty sixty,

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Speaker 2: one hundred holdings. It doesn't really seem concentrated. What is

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Speaker 2: concentrated mean to you?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? For us, fifty sixty would be the largest portfolios

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Speaker 3: that we manage in our in our growth book of business.

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Speaker 3: We do have down in our small cap and smid

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Speaker 3: cap of book of business, we do have larger holdings

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Speaker 3: down there, just to get some more liquidity and diversification.

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Speaker 3: But for our core franchise of growth portfolios, you know,

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Speaker 3: we have ten stock portfolios. We have twenty stock portfolios.

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Speaker 3: When we say something focused, it tends to be about

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Speaker 3: thirty and for us, you know, Flagship might be up

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Speaker 3: to fifty, but not typically more than that.

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Speaker 2: And so when you say deep conviction, what does deep

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Speaker 2: conviction mean? Is that what leads to these ten stock

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Speaker 2: or twenty stock concentrated portfolios. Tell us a little bit

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Speaker 2: of what does deep conviction mean?

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Speaker 3: Well, I think it starts with our investment research. You know,

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Speaker 3: we're a firm of four hundred people, seventy investment professionals,

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Speaker 3: about half pms and half analysts. They have very long

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Speaker 3: tenures with the firm, about thirty years of experience in

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Speaker 3: the industry, more than fifteen on average with the firm,

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Speaker 3: and they are doing very deep research by team. So

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Speaker 3: every team, our large cap growth team, our global growth team,

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Speaker 3: our small smid mid team, our value team, and our

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Speaker 3: fixed income team all have dedicated research analysts. So there's

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Speaker 3: no central research model, there's no house view, there's no

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Speaker 3: you know, mandated approach to seeking alpha. Every team has

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Speaker 3: the UH has the ability to seek alpha in its

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Speaker 3: own way. And what we have are very long tenured,

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Speaker 3: experienced career analysts. So our analysts and our firm ours

413
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Speaker 3: important as our portfolio managers. It's not necessarily a track

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Speaker 3: to portfolio management. In fact, we believe, you know, the

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Speaker 3: real UH secret, Sauce to to Jennison is the research

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Speaker 3: that that we do and what the teams do and

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Speaker 3: on the growth side, at the end of the day,

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Speaker 3: what we're looking for is innovative and disruptive businesses driving

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Speaker 3: structural shifts and industries. You know, business models with with

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Speaker 3: significant barriers to entry, secular demand trends driven by superior

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Speaker 3: product offerings, and these days you know, as you know,

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Speaker 3: that might be evs, autonomous UH driving, machine learning, obesity, drugs,

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Speaker 3: or luxury that's owned through the value chain, and all

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Speaker 3: of those tend to be superior your growers. They tend

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Speaker 3: to have moats around them and are the leaders and

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Speaker 3: the disruptors. And you know, as you know, Barry, history

427
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Speaker 3: has shown that market returns over time have been driven

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Speaker 3: by a narrow set of disruptors and consistent winners. And

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Speaker 3: Jennison has developed a reputation for identifying those companies.

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Speaker 2: So the past fifteen years, those innovators, disruptors, companies with

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Speaker 2: moats have primarily been US based, right, And we see

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Speaker 2: the rest of the world, Asia, Japan, Europe primarily lagging

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Speaker 2: the US, although there seems to be a lot of

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Speaker 2: signs these days that that's starting to change. Certainly Q

435
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:46,280
Speaker 2: one tw twenty five, Europe is dramatically outperforming the US.

436
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 2: How do you think about the relationship between US investing

437
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 2: and international investing. I know only about ten or fifteen

438
00:25:56,280 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 2: percent of your assets are invested overseas. What would it

439
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 2: take to make that change?

440
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:06,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, in terms of our our portfolios that are invested overseas.

441
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:08,680
Speaker 3: And then I'll and then I'll answer your question about

442
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:12,760
Speaker 3: how do I think about international versus US markets. We

443
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:18,440
Speaker 3: have about twenty five billion of dedicated international and global portfolios,

444
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:22,199
Speaker 3: but within our other equity portfolios across the firm, we

445
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:26,120
Speaker 3: do hold a percentage of international assets, so that that

446
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,879
Speaker 3: number ultimately is about forty billion of our one hundred

447
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,800
Speaker 3: and fifty billion of equity, So it is a little

448
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:36,119
Speaker 3: larger than it may may appear. And you know, at

449
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:40,359
Speaker 3: the end of the day, unless we have investment guidelines

450
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:44,119
Speaker 3: or restrictions from clients, you know, we seek alpha with

451
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:47,879
Speaker 3: a bit of agnosticism to both the benchmark and the region.

452
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:51,520
Speaker 3: So we are building portfolios bottoms up, company by company

453
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:53,919
Speaker 3: and looking for what we you know, view are the

454
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:56,679
Speaker 3: best companies for our strategy, whether that be you know,

455
00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:59,960
Speaker 3: intrinsic value, and you know what we think are our

456
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:05,560
Speaker 3: undervalued companies or the disruptors and the growers. In terms

457
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:10,879
Speaker 3: of international holdings per se as you mentioned the first quarter,

458
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:14,320
Speaker 3: after a long drought of underperformance compared to the US,

459
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 3: international equities have had a nice run. You know, it's

460
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:24,560
Speaker 3: primarily driven by policy shifts locally in some of those regions,

461
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:28,879
Speaker 3: as well as reactions to current US policy shifts and

462
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:31,639
Speaker 3: the uncertainty around that. So in Asia, you know, the

463
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:37,120
Speaker 3: government is clearly priming the pump. In Europe, increased defense

464
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 3: spending has really ignited, ignited the markets over there, and

465
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:45,000
Speaker 3: so I think the international markets might have some legs.

466
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:48,720
Speaker 3: We do still favor the US, you know, in the

467
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:53,160
Speaker 3: medium term and longer term right now, but certainly international markets,

468
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 3: after being beaten down for years have come back strongly.

469
00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:00,320
Speaker 2: So let's talk a little bit about risk management. I

470
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 2: know you guys employ the traditional sected diversification, geographic diversification,

471
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:10,200
Speaker 2: different strategies, but talk a little bit about your risk

472
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:14,280
Speaker 2: management and the downside protection you deploy to make sure

473
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 2: that volatility like we've been seeing doesn't hit the bottom

474
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 2: line too hard.

475
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, And you know, as we discuss Barry, we are

476
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:27,320
Speaker 3: concentrated managers, high conviction managers, so you know, we're paid

477
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:31,119
Speaker 3: to take risk and as a result, our portfolios do

478
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:34,359
Speaker 3: tend to be more volatile than the benchmark, certainly and

479
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 3: many other managers who are more diversified. So you know,

480
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 3: we will have periods where we wildly outperform the benchmark,

481
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 3: in periods where we underperform the benchmark. We're looking typically

482
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:48,479
Speaker 3: at a holding period in our names of you know,

483
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 3: three to five years and much longer, and so you

484
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:55,360
Speaker 3: know we are long term investors. We want to align

485
00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:58,959
Speaker 3: interest with our clients who are long term investors and

486
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 3: try to filter out the quarter to quarter noise and

487
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 3: the volatility that comes in between those periods. So again,

488
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 3: if we can identify those companies early that are going

489
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 3: to be the longer term winners, that's that's where we go.

490
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 3: From a risk perspective, what we want to protect against

491
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 3: is unintended risk. So we're taking very deliberate and concentrated risk.

492
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 3: But we have every kind of risk management report that

493
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 3: you would expect in an asset manager to make sure

494
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:30,960
Speaker 3: we don't have unintended risks, to check our dispersion, and

495
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 3: to make sure that at the end of the day,

496
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 3: the risks we're taking our stock selection risk and not

497
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 3: unintended risk around you know, sized geography sector.

498
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 2: So I don't usually hear the phrase unintended risk. So

499
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:50,480
Speaker 2: I certainly understand the risk of performance relative to a benchmark.

500
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 2: You over underperform, you're gonna outperform. What are some other

501
00:29:55,120 --> 00:30:00,240
Speaker 2: unintended risks? Is it strictly just sector concentration jigra a

502
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:03,480
Speaker 2: concentration or is there a little more nuance to it.

503
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 3: We want to make sure at the at the end

504
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:07,480
Speaker 3: of the day that the risk we're taking is is

505
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 3: stock specific. That's that's who we are on the equity side.

506
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 3: We are we are stock pickers, and so we want

507
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 3: to make sure that you know what's what's coming through

508
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,920
Speaker 3: our portfolio from a risk perspective is all based on

509
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:23,920
Speaker 3: stock selection and not some of the more factor based

510
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 3: UH influences that can that can take shape in portfolios.

511
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:32,280
Speaker 3: And as you mentioned, you know, sector and geography and

512
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 3: and UH and other.

513
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 2: Exposures really interesting. So so given that PGEUM is the

514
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 2: parent company and they run a sort of multi boutique,

515
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:50,200
Speaker 2: multi strategy approach, how does your concentrated alpha approach to

516
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 2: investing fit in. Do you have to think about, well,

517
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 2: maybe this group or that group is doing something similar,

518
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 2: or do you do your thing and it's up to

519
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:04,840
Speaker 2: the pairing company to select the allocation they want.

520
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 3: Yeah. The great thing about the multi manager model at

521
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,239
Speaker 3: PGEUM is each of the affiliates as we call them

522
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 3: versus boutiques are free to pursue their asset class and

523
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 3: their specialty UH in their own way. Now to the

524
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:23,960
Speaker 3: extent that there are multi asset portfolios put together, you

525
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:27,560
Speaker 3: know within PGEUM that might select components of the different

526
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 3: affiliates or boutiques. You know, that'll be determined by the

527
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 3: multi asset team doing the acid allocation. You know, for

528
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 3: for Genison, given you know the high highly concentrated UH,

529
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 3: you know nature of our of our equity portfolios, we

530
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:44,960
Speaker 3: fit into some of those multi asset products, but in

531
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 3: other cases we don't. We're too high octane UH for that.

532
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 3: But we are in a number of annuity and and

533
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:57,840
Speaker 3: other acid allocation products throughout Prudential that that avail themselves

534
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 3: of our various capabilities. And the other thing that that

535
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:05,800
Speaker 3: that Jennison can do is we have a small quantitative

536
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:10,680
Speaker 3: equity team, not to be confused with PGIM Quantitative Services,

537
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:14,960
Speaker 3: which is a sister company. Our team is there to

538
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:19,480
Speaker 3: customize our fundamental alpha from our equity portfolios. So if

539
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:22,560
Speaker 3: a client is looking for a targeted tracking error, a

540
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 3: targeted volatility, you know, likes what we do but maybe

541
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 3: can't quite take take the tracking error volatility, we can

542
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 3: manipulate the portfolio to fit within their requirements. They might

543
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:37,160
Speaker 3: be someone who wants a sustainable portfolio and you know,

544
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:40,720
Speaker 3: has some exclusions or types of industries they don't want

545
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 3: to include. So having this little quad group within Jennison

546
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 3: to customize our our outcomes for our clients as has

547
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:51,920
Speaker 3: been a terrific addition of value that has allowed us

548
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:55,680
Speaker 3: to get into some of these multi asset products. The

549
00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 3: other great thing about the PGM multi manager model that

550
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:02,960
Speaker 3: I'll come and on is that we have virtually no

551
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 3: overlap among the different affiliates or boutique. So Jennison is

552
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:11,440
Speaker 3: the is the fundamental active equity manager. Uh, you know,

553
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:15,640
Speaker 3: PGEUM Quantitative Services is the quant manager. Pageum fixed income

554
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 3: has you know, broad based fixed income capabilities. We have

555
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 3: private real estate, private credit, et cetera. And we're not

556
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 3: fighting with each other over shelf space in different products

557
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:28,480
Speaker 3: because we're all experts in what we do.

558
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:32,479
Speaker 2: Now, it's taken me about ten years to stop saying

559
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 2: Prudential and start saying pgeum. You did mention Prudential. When

560
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 2: you think about the parent company, it traces back to

561
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 2: Prudential Insurance, which is still a giant brand. How does

562
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:51,920
Speaker 2: the relationship between Genesis, How does the relationship between Jennison

563
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 2: and PGEUM and PGEUM Prudential just affect the nomenclature. It's

564
00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 2: a lot of stuff to keep straight.

565
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 3: It is you have you have the master brand of

566
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:03,360
Speaker 3: Prudential one hundred and fifty years, you have the pGEM

567
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:06,719
Speaker 3: brand a little over a decade old, and then you

568
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 3: have the brands underneath Jennison at fifty five years being

569
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:15,839
Speaker 3: the oldest of the investment management brands. It's also why

570
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 3: Jennison tends to be the most independent of the of

571
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 3: the affiliates or boutiques. It was an acquired business. About

572
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 3: seventy five percent of the assets were sourced by Jennison

573
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:33,440
Speaker 3: versus assets that have come through some of the Prudential

574
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 3: or PGYM channels. But you know, we do, you know,

575
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:39,439
Speaker 3: we do have to be careful about the branding, and

576
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:45,720
Speaker 3: sometimes it's at the product level. For example, PGUM runs

577
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:50,480
Speaker 3: a lot of the you know, the consolidated platforms like

578
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:54,880
Speaker 3: the mutual fund platform and in Europe the use it

579
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 3: platform that are you know, used to structure the funds

580
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:03,000
Speaker 3: that are sold into the wealth management channels and there

581
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:06,239
Speaker 3: for example, if you want to buy Jennison in a

582
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:09,360
Speaker 3: growth fund through the through the PGAM mutual fund company.

583
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 3: It's the Pgmjennison Growth Fund, So sometimes we have multiple

584
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:13,759
Speaker 3: brands at play.

585
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 2: Huh, really interesting. So let's talk a little bit about

586
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 2: the current environment. It certainly has been a chaotic first

587
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:28,040
Speaker 2: quarter with tariffs on and off. Again, you guys are

588
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:32,799
Speaker 2: deep fundamental investors. How do you think about newsflow and

589
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:37,359
Speaker 2: all this noisy stuff when you're looking at the fundamentals

590
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:37,920
Speaker 2: of companies.

591
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:42,000
Speaker 3: It's it's hard to do, but it really comes down

592
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:44,200
Speaker 3: to focus. At the end of the day, we have

593
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:46,840
Speaker 3: to try to filter out the noise. Now we can't

594
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:50,840
Speaker 3: we're not macro investors, but we have to be macro aware.

595
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:55,239
Speaker 3: We have to understand if policy shifts or you know,

596
00:35:55,280 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 3: anything in the macro environment will ultimately affect the environ

597
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:03,560
Speaker 3: in which our companies operate. So we always bring it

598
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 3: back to the fundamentals. You know, we can't put blinders

599
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 3: on and say this is a great company, but if

600
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:12,040
Speaker 3: if the landscape in which they operate changes, it can

601
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:14,719
Speaker 3: affect the fundamentals of the company. So, you know, we

602
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 3: work very hard to try to separate the you know,

603
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:19,480
Speaker 3: the noise from the fundamentals. But at the end of

604
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:24,080
Speaker 3: the day. Sometimes that macro environment can affect the fundamentals.

605
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:27,600
Speaker 2: So when it starts affecting the fundamentals, how do you

606
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:31,759
Speaker 2: manage it? I'm assuming since you're the alpha managers, you

607
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,000
Speaker 2: don't have an option of saying we're going to go

608
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 2: to cash or we're going to go to bonds. Is

609
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 2: in a matter of saying, hey, Europe seems to be

610
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:41,359
Speaker 2: doing better, we're going to rotate shift some of our

611
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:44,880
Speaker 2: exposure from the US two overseas. How do you deal

612
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:50,440
Speaker 2: with the macro once it starts affecting the fundamentals.

613
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:54,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's exactly as you described. We're paid to invest

614
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:57,759
Speaker 3: in a certain strategy for a client, so we hold

615
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:02,279
Speaker 3: very little cash just forquidity and trading. We're paid to

616
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:04,879
Speaker 3: be fully invested, and so you know, as we see

617
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:08,280
Speaker 3: either a sector or a supply chain or a company's

618
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:12,359
Speaker 3: fundamentals coming under pressure, will will either underweight or get

619
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 3: out of the company completely and look for the next

620
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:16,400
Speaker 3: best opportunity.

621
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:20,600
Speaker 2: Really kind of interesting. You had a piece recently at

622
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:25,880
Speaker 2: Jennison titled is value investing debt? Tell us a little

623
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:26,440
Speaker 2: bit about that.

624
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 3: Well, Well, growth indexes have certainly outperformed value for for

625
00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 3: well over a decade. I think we're all aware of that.

626
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 3: That's that's been good for Gennison two thirds of our

627
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:39,240
Speaker 3: equity assets or our growth oriented assets, and and we've

628
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:44,799
Speaker 3: we've benefited during this period and also outperformed and raised

629
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:47,279
Speaker 3: money and new clients. So, you know, a lot of

630
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:50,320
Speaker 3: that has been has been a great tailwind for our business.

631
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:54,480
Speaker 3: But we also have a high performing value team that's

632
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:57,280
Speaker 3: that's put up some very good numbers. The way we've

633
00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:01,640
Speaker 3: uh the way we manage in value is called an

634
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:06,200
Speaker 3: intrinsic value approach, which is very opportunistic. It's not deep

635
00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:09,600
Speaker 3: value or a Fallen Angel type strategy. We look for

636
00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:14,920
Speaker 3: companies with temporarily depressed earnings versus a permanent situation. We

637
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:18,719
Speaker 3: try to identify those, and periods of short term volatility

638
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:22,360
Speaker 3: can actually favor our approach if we can, if we

639
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:26,120
Speaker 3: can decipher, you know, which companies have hidden inflection point

640
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:29,560
Speaker 3: and get into those early and hold them long term.

641
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:33,680
Speaker 3: Now the market has broadened out recently from the mag

642
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:36,480
Speaker 3: seven and some of the you know, the most concentrated

643
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:40,560
Speaker 3: positions that have that have led the market, and and

644
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 3: we're being rewarded, you know, for executing in the value space.

645
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:47,759
Speaker 3: There's still good companies and good growth in value. I

646
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:52,280
Speaker 3: don't think investors really think about growth versus value investing

647
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:54,799
Speaker 3: like they used to. I think they think about it

648
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:59,600
Speaker 3: as portions of the portfolio, stable growers maybe with dividends,

649
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:02,800
Speaker 3: versus as innovators and disruptors that that might lead the

650
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:03,600
Speaker 3: way in the future.

651
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:08,000
Speaker 2: That's really that's really kind of interesting. It's funny because

652
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:15,080
Speaker 2: you're talking about your approach to intrinsic value, and I

653
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:19,320
Speaker 2: would imagine that as the mag seven and traditional growth

654
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:24,240
Speaker 2: equity falters, the volatility of this market would be great

655
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:30,560
Speaker 2: for an opportunistic intrinsic value investor. Tell us how the

656
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:35,000
Speaker 2: value guys are salivating these days over what the state

657
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:40,719
Speaker 2: of markets are with volatility spiking up close to thirty.

658
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:43,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think volatility actually can be good on the

659
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:45,520
Speaker 3: growth side as well. So I think I think when

660
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:50,600
Speaker 3: you're a fundamental stock picker, you you want number one

661
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:53,560
Speaker 3: is as little correlation as possible. If everything goes up,

662
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:57,840
Speaker 3: it's hard to differentiate yourself when market's broaden out, you know,

663
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:04,480
Speaker 3: when when volatility is UH is elevated, you know it,

664
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:07,719
Speaker 3: really you really have to have skill to to differentiate

665
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:10,680
Speaker 3: and to separate the noise, uh, you know, from the

666
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:12,719
Speaker 3: fundamentals of the company, and so we think we can

667
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:16,080
Speaker 3: benefit in these periods both on the value and the

668
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:19,680
Speaker 3: growth side. Certainly, you know, on the growth side has

669
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:23,960
Speaker 3: pulled back most recently in the first quarter. You're you're

670
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:28,480
Speaker 3: starting to see that, uh shift back already. It appears

671
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:32,680
Speaker 3: that mid March was perhaps the you know, the the

672
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:35,520
Speaker 3: you know, the bottom, and we seem to be, you know,

673
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:40,040
Speaker 3: starting to bounce off of that. I for one, UH

674
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:43,439
Speaker 3: don't don't see a recession on the horizon, at least

675
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:46,759
Speaker 3: not a not a severe one. So I think we

676
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:49,920
Speaker 3: will continue to see as as you know, we filter

677
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:52,120
Speaker 3: through the noise. We learned the tariffs may be a

678
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:55,680
Speaker 3: little more targeted and forgiven in some instances that uh,

679
00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:59,759
Speaker 3: the supply chains don't get as disrupted as as we thought,

680
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:04,320
Speaker 3: and we could see a good period for growth equity.

681
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:08,600
Speaker 2: Again, So you have large cap growth equity as a focus,

682
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:13,120
Speaker 2: you have global equity opportunity. What are some of the

683
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:18,080
Speaker 2: other areas where you guys focus in terms of looking

684
00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:19,560
Speaker 2: for alpha.

685
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, growth growth equity, as we've talked about, was the

686
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 3: foundation of the firm and the largest book of assets

687
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 3: about half the assets of the firm. We have a

688
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:32,200
Speaker 3: global growth team that was built and extended off of that,

689
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:37,040
Speaker 3: getting into global, international and emerging market equity, also following

690
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:42,440
Speaker 3: a growth style and philosophy. That team leverages a lot

691
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:46,799
Speaker 3: of the same research of our growth analysts. Then we

692
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 3: have a small smid mid cap team. They are a

693
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:55,240
Speaker 3: little more growth managers, but a little more valuation sensitive there,

694
00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:59,839
Speaker 3: and we offer that in sort of growth and core portfolio.

695
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:04,640
Speaker 3: Our value team. We talked about our intrinsic value capabilities,

696
00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:07,520
Speaker 3: but you know, on the value side, we also have

697
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:15,480
Speaker 3: certain sector funds infrastructure, utilities, energy and other things, and

698
00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:21,280
Speaker 3: including some of some strategies that are in demand in Europe,

699
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:25,040
Speaker 3: like carbon solution strategy that's a sort of a brown

700
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:28,560
Speaker 3: green strategy, if you will. And then we have our

701
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:32,680
Speaker 3: fifty billion dollar fixed income shop based up in Boston.

702
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:36,360
Speaker 3: They are really the antithesis of what we do in

703
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:44,000
Speaker 3: high conviction focused concentrated equity. They are a high, high

704
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 3: quality credit shop staying in you know, the higher end

705
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:53,680
Speaker 3: of the space there down the fairway core fixed income

706
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:58,400
Speaker 3: manager managing for the largest pension plans in the world,

707
00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:02,839
Speaker 3: and also able value in LDI mandates. So it's also

708
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:06,040
Speaker 3: a nice diversifier for the business. We have this very stable,

709
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 3: you know, core credit manager and this high conviction, high

710
00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:10,800
Speaker 3: alpha equity manager.

711
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:15,560
Speaker 2: So given that there seems to be a consensus at

712
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:18,400
Speaker 2: your shop of higher for longer at least when it

713
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:21,640
Speaker 2: comes to rates. Since you brought up fixed income and

714
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:27,120
Speaker 2: you brought up credit, does this allow your clients to say, hey,

715
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:29,320
Speaker 2: we could take a little off the table with equity

716
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:32,840
Speaker 2: and focus a little more on on stable fixed income.

717
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:34,719
Speaker 2: How does that balance work?

718
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:37,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, we've seen that over the last several years as

719
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:40,799
Speaker 3: rates ticked up and there was something to earn in

720
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:45,720
Speaker 3: fixed income. Again, we watch pension plans, you know, adjust

721
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:48,880
Speaker 3: their their asset allocations. You know, one of the double

722
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 3: edged swords of being a high performing equity manager is

723
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:56,440
Speaker 3: when the equity markets run up and you outperform the

724
00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:59,279
Speaker 3: benchmark you get allocated against, you're the one they take

725
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:01,520
Speaker 3: the money away from from. So you know, we've we've

726
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:04,440
Speaker 3: had that happen and have been a victim of our success,

727
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:06,560
Speaker 3: if you will, in some of these areas. So we

728
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:08,799
Speaker 3: have seen that over the last couple of years as

729
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:11,920
Speaker 3: rates ticked up, where we did see some of our clients,

730
00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:15,360
Speaker 3: you know, maintain us, but shift sort.

731
00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:21,040
Speaker 2: Of rebalanced falls from alpha generating concentrated equity into more stable,

732
00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:23,160
Speaker 2: lower yielding fixed income.

733
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:26,799
Speaker 3: Exactly exactly. I mean, we we do know. I'm not

734
00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:29,480
Speaker 3: one to call rates per se, but you know, I

735
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:32,720
Speaker 3: agree with the base case out there that we'll probably

736
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:36,920
Speaker 3: see two cuts. Hopefully they're you know, they're for the

737
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:39,239
Speaker 3: right reasons and not bad news cuts, if you will.

738
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:45,400
Speaker 2: So that's interesting you say that because originally last year

739
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:47,319
Speaker 2: Wall Street was looking for a lot more cuts than

740
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:54,239
Speaker 2: we got, and the sort of pushback to the expectation was, Hey,

741
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:58,520
Speaker 2: the economy is really robust. Consumers are spending, companies are hiring,

742
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 2: capex spending is up, revenue and profits are up. Why

743
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:05,919
Speaker 2: are you guys expecting cuts? How does that transition? Now?

744
00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:09,799
Speaker 2: Where you know, I'm in your camp, I don't really

745
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:13,040
Speaker 2: see an imminent recession, but at the same time, it

746
00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:18,480
Speaker 2: certainly appears that recession risks are ticking up. They're still

747
00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:22,160
Speaker 2: relatively low, but they're appreciably higher than they were at

748
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:25,960
Speaker 2: the end of twenty twenty four. So if we're going

749
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:29,240
Speaker 2: to get two cuts, is that because the FED wants

750
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:32,640
Speaker 2: to normalize rates to where they've been over the past

751
00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:37,600
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five years as inflation sort of settles down,

752
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:40,960
Speaker 2: or are we going to see cuts because the economy

753
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:41,880
Speaker 2: is beginning to slow.

754
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:46,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree with you completely. I hope it's the

755
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:49,560
Speaker 3: former and not the latter. We are starting to see

756
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:53,440
Speaker 3: some signs of some potential slowing of growth. I do

757
00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:56,360
Speaker 3: think we could see growth slow down from what it's been.

758
00:45:56,960 --> 00:45:59,240
Speaker 2: And it's been red hot, and it's a couple of years.

759
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:01,040
Speaker 3: And it's been red hot. You know, there's still some

760
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:05,560
Speaker 3: good signs out there. Housing starts are up, services pmis up,

761
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:09,880
Speaker 3: you know, retail sales and manufacturing are down, consumer sentiments down.

762
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:13,920
Speaker 3: The income and labor markets importantly are still are still decent.

763
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:17,399
Speaker 3: I think that'll be a major determinant of where we go.

764
00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:21,960
Speaker 3: Inflation is stubborn, but it's showing signs of coming down

765
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:25,239
Speaker 3: in key areas. Tariff's notwithstanding, and you know, I think

766
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:28,120
Speaker 3: the tariff path will determine a lot of where we

767
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:28,560
Speaker 3: go here.

768
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 2: So it sounds like you guys stick to your knitting.

769
00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:37,160
Speaker 2: You do fundamental research, You focus on intrinsic value, but

770
00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 2: you're certainly aware that, hey, what's going on in the

771
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:42,160
Speaker 2: rest of the world. It could have an impact then

772
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:48,440
Speaker 2: lead over if you're advising pension funds or foundations that

773
00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:54,960
Speaker 2: have a perpetual lifespan or at least future liabilities that

774
00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:59,520
Speaker 2: are decades off, is the best advice. Hey, it's gonna

775
00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:01,399
Speaker 2: get bumped for a while, but you have to look

776
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:04,520
Speaker 2: past this, look to the other side of whatever happens

777
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:07,640
Speaker 2: over the next one two, four years or is it

778
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:10,120
Speaker 2: everybody manned their battle stations.

779
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:15,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think keeping a long term focus is good advice. Uh,

780
00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:17,759
Speaker 3: you know, for for the pension plans who obviously have

781
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:20,960
Speaker 3: teams of experts, you know, focused on their asset allocation,

782
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:24,879
Speaker 3: but also for the retail investor who who obviously has

783
00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:28,120
Speaker 3: the financial advisor as well. But you know, as you

784
00:47:28,200 --> 00:47:31,480
Speaker 3: know Barry, staying invested is key when people try to

785
00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:35,759
Speaker 3: time the markets and and exit, you know, they they've

786
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:40,880
Speaker 3: they've always regretted that, you know, being in the market

787
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:45,600
Speaker 3: during those key points of inflection when when markets take

788
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:49,840
Speaker 3: up or missing that that last uh, that last large spike,

789
00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:54,040
Speaker 3: you know, it really can have a dramatically negative impact

790
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:55,160
Speaker 3: on your returns overall.

791
00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:57,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, We've seen a lot of studies that show the

792
00:47:57,520 --> 00:48:01,120
Speaker 2: worst days and the best days tend to come cluster together,

793
00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:04,520
Speaker 2: and it's very hard to miss one and catch the other. Absolutely,

794
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 2: so I know I only have you for a limited

795
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:11,319
Speaker 2: amount of time. Let's jump to our favorite questions that

796
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:15,080
Speaker 2: we ask all of our guests, starting with what's keeping

797
00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:17,840
Speaker 2: you entertained these days? What are you either watching or

798
00:48:17,880 --> 00:48:24,680
Speaker 2: listening to? What's your tell us about your favorite podcast? Netflix? Whatever?

799
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:25,880
Speaker 2: You know?

800
00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:29,520
Speaker 3: I'm always well behind where everyone else is. I didn't

801
00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:32,560
Speaker 3: watch the first episode of The Sopranos until until the

802
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:36,920
Speaker 3: series was over, and I'm just starting Yellowstone, So that

803
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 3: tells you how up to date.

804
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:41,680
Speaker 2: You're ahead of me. And Yellowstone it's the next one

805
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:45,160
Speaker 2: up in Mike queue. Are you enjoying it?

806
00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:48,239
Speaker 3: I just started it, so so far, so good. I've

807
00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:51,240
Speaker 3: heard so many great things about it, so I'm looking

808
00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:53,760
Speaker 3: forward to it. I'm a bit of a history buff,

809
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:56,759
Speaker 3: so I've been working my way through the ken Burns, uh,

810
00:48:57,120 --> 00:49:01,440
Speaker 3: Doctor Malarisa. I've seen the Brooklyn Bridge, the Statue of Liberty,

811
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:04,200
Speaker 3: the Civil War, the Vietnam War, and the Great War.

812
00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:07,360
Speaker 3: And the next one up for me is Benjamin Franklin.

813
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:10,600
Speaker 3: So I really enjoy ken Burns and how he approaches

814
00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:12,880
Speaker 3: you know, the documentary.

815
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:18,320
Speaker 2: Huh, really interesting. You You mentioned one of your mentors previously.

816
00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:21,920
Speaker 2: Tell us about the folks who helped shape your career.

817
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:23,239
Speaker 2: Who were your mentors?

818
00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:27,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say, first, you know, it was my

819
00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:31,680
Speaker 3: mother from a values and from a work ethic perspective,

820
00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:36,239
Speaker 3: first generation college grad, went to got a master's at Georgetown,

821
00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:42,600
Speaker 3: worked in politics, ransom nonprofits, and then ultimately worked in education.

822
00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:47,239
Speaker 3: She's she's ninety years old and still alive and doing well.

823
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:50,200
Speaker 3: And you know, she's been a great inspiration to me.

824
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:55,000
Speaker 3: Again from a values and work ethic perspective. I've also

825
00:49:55,040 --> 00:49:58,880
Speaker 3: had the great opportunity to work for some great leaders

826
00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:02,120
Speaker 3: and manager I tried to learn from each one of

827
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:05,600
Speaker 3: them along the way, take the styles or the characteristics

828
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:08,040
Speaker 3: that I most admired of each of them and try

829
00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:12,400
Speaker 3: to incorporate that into my leadership style. And at Altis

830
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:15,000
Speaker 3: it was John Kim and Scott Fox at at you know,

831
00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:18,759
Speaker 3: Bob Crispin, Rob Leary at I n g Uh and

832
00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:22,160
Speaker 3: then alone Cara Oagland at Voya to name a few.

833
00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:26,480
Speaker 3: Sig Sigalis who who I mentioned past about two years ago.

834
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:29,200
Speaker 3: I worked with him for only about six years and

835
00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:32,200
Speaker 3: while you know he wasn't necessarily a mentor in the

836
00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:35,880
Speaker 3: sense of helping me do my job, which was terrific

837
00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:38,719
Speaker 3: when when when I came on board, Sig said, I,

838
00:50:38,719 --> 00:50:41,719
Speaker 3: I managed the money, you managed the firm. And he

839
00:50:41,719 --> 00:50:43,839
Speaker 3: he kept his word there and allowed me to do

840
00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:45,920
Speaker 3: what you know, we felt we needed to do to

841
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:48,120
Speaker 3: help grow the business and set the strategy. And it

842
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:51,359
Speaker 3: was a it was a terrific partnership. And UH, and

843
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:53,960
Speaker 3: I have great admiration for him. So he was more

844
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:56,919
Speaker 3: an inspiration to me, just the you know, his will

845
00:50:56,960 --> 00:50:59,840
Speaker 3: to win and and the way he impacted everyone around

846
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:03,799
Speaker 3: him and the quality, UH and the values of the

847
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:07,040
Speaker 3: firm that he built really inspirational.

848
00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:08,040
Speaker 2: Really really interesting.

849
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:08,799
Speaker 1: Uh.

850
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:11,640
Speaker 2: Let's talk about books. What are you reading currently? What

851
00:51:11,719 --> 00:51:12,960
Speaker 2: are some of your favorites?

852
00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:17,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, right now, I just started, UH, Leadership in

853
00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:21,360
Speaker 3: Turbulent Times, UH, from from Doris Kurrn's Goodwin. It seems a.

854
00:51:21,320 --> 00:51:23,439
Speaker 2: Little apropos sure right now.

855
00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:25,600
Speaker 3: And and UH, you know, it's a it's a book

856
00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:31,080
Speaker 3: about Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, FDR and UH and LBJ and

857
00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:34,200
Speaker 3: it kind of you know, takes you through their you know,

858
00:51:34,239 --> 00:51:37,600
Speaker 3: their administrations and UH and some of the challenges that

859
00:51:37,640 --> 00:51:40,239
Speaker 3: they faced. You know, it's a big book. It sat

860
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:42,520
Speaker 3: on my coffee table for a few years and I

861
00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:44,640
Speaker 3: looked at it and I, you know, I've wanted to

862
00:51:44,760 --> 00:51:46,759
Speaker 3: kind of tap in, but it was four inches high,

863
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:49,279
Speaker 3: and and finally I h I did tap in, and

864
00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:50,040
Speaker 3: I'm glad I did.

865
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:55,880
Speaker 2: Our final two questions, what sort of advice would you

866
00:51:55,960 --> 00:51:59,800
Speaker 2: give to a recent college grad interested in a career

867
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:05,120
Speaker 2: in either investment, credit, finance, anything along the lines of

868
00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:06,799
Speaker 2: your career experiences.

869
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:11,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say, first thing, you know, you know,

870
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:14,600
Speaker 3: getting into finance. The path to finance starts so much

871
00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:17,279
Speaker 3: earlier than it ever did. And in our day, you know,

872
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:19,440
Speaker 3: it was senior year, it was time to look for

873
00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:22,640
Speaker 3: a job, maybe had an internship, you know, the year before.

874
00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:23,920
Speaker 1: But now.

875
00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:27,840
Speaker 3: Undergrads going into finance, they need to be lining up

876
00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:32,920
Speaker 3: their internships sophomore summer, junior summer, senior summer. So so

877
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:36,040
Speaker 3: it really starts a lot sooner. But once they're on

878
00:52:36,120 --> 00:52:39,440
Speaker 3: the job, my my advice to them is always builder

879
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:43,839
Speaker 3: a resume of skills, not a resume of jobs. Try to,

880
00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:46,040
Speaker 3: you know, try to develop as many skills as you

881
00:52:46,080 --> 00:52:50,040
Speaker 3: can along the way, and ask questions early and often

882
00:52:50,760 --> 00:52:53,439
Speaker 3: you're not expected to know anything when when you're young

883
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:55,680
Speaker 3: and in the job, but as you move on in

884
00:52:55,719 --> 00:52:58,240
Speaker 3: your career, you're expected to know more and it becomes

885
00:52:58,280 --> 00:53:02,239
Speaker 3: a little harder to ask questions and then ask for

886
00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:05,680
Speaker 3: experiences outside of your current duties. So if you see

887
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:09,120
Speaker 3: something going on in the next department over, ask if

888
00:53:09,160 --> 00:53:11,680
Speaker 3: you can be exposed to that you know while doing

889
00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:16,160
Speaker 3: the job you were hired for, and try to get

890
00:53:16,239 --> 00:53:20,560
Speaker 3: more exposure, but don't expect anything to be given to you.

891
00:53:20,560 --> 00:53:25,000
Speaker 3: You own your career. Seek out mentors and try to learn,

892
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:26,400
Speaker 3: But at the end of the day, you have to

893
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:30,080
Speaker 3: take ownership of your career and your advancement will really

894
00:53:30,120 --> 00:53:33,120
Speaker 3: depend on the success of your current role, and if

895
00:53:33,160 --> 00:53:36,680
Speaker 3: you focus on that and do it well, you'll be recognized.

896
00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:40,440
Speaker 2: Really good good advice, And our final question, what do

897
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:43,279
Speaker 2: you know about the world of investing today? You wish

898
00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:46,280
Speaker 2: you knew thirty forty years ago when you were first

899
00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:47,120
Speaker 2: getting started.

900
00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:49,640
Speaker 3: Well, as I mentioned, I didn't know anything about it

901
00:53:49,880 --> 00:53:52,560
Speaker 3: forty years ago when I was getting started coming out

902
00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:57,520
Speaker 3: of college. But in reflecting back, what I think would

903
00:53:57,560 --> 00:54:00,600
Speaker 3: be helpful would have been how many different types of

904
00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:05,000
Speaker 3: finance careers there actually are? Everyone thinks sort of Wall

905
00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:09,040
Speaker 3: Street investment banking, M and A. But but there's investment management,

906
00:54:09,080 --> 00:54:13,160
Speaker 3: there's wealth management, there's insurance, there's commercial banking, there's you know,

907
00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:17,640
Speaker 3: there's institutional banking. So many many careers in finance and

908
00:54:17,719 --> 00:54:21,040
Speaker 3: past that that that you can go down. I had

909
00:54:21,080 --> 00:54:24,560
Speaker 3: a very narrow view of the investment world. And you know,

910
00:54:24,640 --> 00:54:28,160
Speaker 3: my journey really, you know, happened because of the next

911
00:54:28,239 --> 00:54:30,040
Speaker 3: role that I got. In the next role that I got,

912
00:54:30,080 --> 00:54:32,560
Speaker 3: I didn't have a plan per se, and I think,

913
00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:36,160
Speaker 3: you know, I wish I knew more earlier on and

914
00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:38,760
Speaker 3: I might have set a plan. The plan turned out okay,

915
00:54:39,360 --> 00:54:42,000
Speaker 3: and and I've been happy with it, but you know,

916
00:54:42,040 --> 00:54:43,759
Speaker 3: who knows what the path would have taken had I

917
00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:44,799
Speaker 3: known a little more about it.

918
00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:48,239
Speaker 2: Huh, really interesting stuff, Jeff, Thank you for being so

919
00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:52,040
Speaker 2: generous with your time. We have been speaking with Jeff Becker.

920
00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:56,560
Speaker 2: He's chairman and CEO of Jennison Associates, helping to run

921
00:54:56,600 --> 00:55:00,120
Speaker 2: the firm that manages well over two hundred billion dollars

922
00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:03,960
Speaker 2: in assets. If you enjoy this conversation, be sure to

923
00:55:04,040 --> 00:55:07,120
Speaker 2: check out any of the five hundred and fifty or

924
00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:11,399
Speaker 2: so we've done over the past eleven years. You can

925
00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:16,720
Speaker 2: find those at iTunes, Spotify, YouTube, Bloomberg, wherever you find

926
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:20,320
Speaker 2: your favorite podcasts. Be sure to check out my new book,

927
00:55:20,600 --> 00:55:24,719
Speaker 2: How Not to Invest The Ideas, numbers, and behaviors that

928
00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:28,640
Speaker 2: destroy wealth and How to Avoid Them, out now at

929
00:55:28,680 --> 00:55:32,200
Speaker 2: your favorite bookseller. I would be remiss if I did

930
00:55:32,239 --> 00:55:34,880
Speaker 2: not thank the Cracked team that helps with these conversations

931
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:39,080
Speaker 2: together each week. My audio engineer is Steve Gonzalez. Anna

932
00:55:39,200 --> 00:55:43,440
Speaker 2: Luke is my producer. Sean Russo is my researcher. Sage

933
00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:46,960
Speaker 2: Bauman is the head of podcasts at Bloomberg. I'm Barry

934
00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:51,120
Speaker 2: rud Haunts. You've been listening to Masters in Business on

935
00:55:51,280 --> 00:56:01,440
Speaker 2: Bloomberg Radio