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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, the defense for the alleged

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Speaker 1: assassin Luigi Mangioni, actually gets up in court and talks

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Speaker 1: about how mangione is the victim, actually claiming with a

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Speaker 1: straight face that his quote beautiful, promising life has been

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Speaker 1: derailed by.

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Speaker 2: Those pesky murderer charges. Wow.

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Speaker 1: I wonder how the murder victim's family is feeling about

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Speaker 1: right now. He's leaving behind a wife and two sons,

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Speaker 1: and Luigi Mangioni's defense team claims he's the victim. And

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Speaker 1: I haven't even got started on what they are trying

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Speaker 1: to have thrown out of evidence so a jury will

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Speaker 1: never hear the truth.

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Speaker 3: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to

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Speaker 3: thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 4: No One, what is the address of your emergency?

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Speaker 5: That's not really an emergency? I do I have a

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Speaker 5: customer here that some other customers were suspicions of that

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Speaker 5: he looked like the CEO shooter New York.

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Speaker 1: Okay, straight out to Kila Brantley, joining US investigative reporter

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Speaker 1: at large dailymail dot com. Did they actually say in

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Speaker 1: court that their client, luigim Agiani is the victim because

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Speaker 1: his quote beautiful, promising life has been derailed.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, Nancy, As you mentioned, his team did paint him

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Speaker 6: as someone with a promising future. Now, one thing that

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Speaker 6: had been documented was that Luigi suffered from debilitating back pain.

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Speaker 6: This was something that he went through. He went through

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Speaker 6: back surgery. And one thing that they say here is

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Speaker 6: that the real enemy here is the medical system, and

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Speaker 6: that is one thing that you can definitely expect his

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Speaker 6: legal team.

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Speaker 1: I'll argue, Kila, can I believe you are my lion

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Speaker 1: eyes control room? Please show me him a running along

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Speaker 1: the beach in Hawaii. I've got videos of him lifting

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Speaker 1: up girls and tickling them.

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Speaker 3: It's a video.

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Speaker 1: They're all giggling hysterically, including him. I've got photos of

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Speaker 1: him lounging by the beach. I'd love to see those

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Speaker 1: photos of him hiking and what looks to be a

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Speaker 1: jungle rainfall. Oh, he is feeling no pain there, Keili Brantley,

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Speaker 1: I hope you don't fall for that look like and seeker.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Judy Hoe, did you know that Luigimanngioni is apparently

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Speaker 1: the victim in this scenario. Doctor Judy Hoe is joining

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Speaker 1: US clinical forensic neuro psychologist, author of the New Rules

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Speaker 1: of Attachment and another bestseller, Stop Self Sabotage. You need

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Speaker 1: to write one, doctor Judy Hoe about try to tell

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Speaker 1: the truth and then send it. You know, I'll pay

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Speaker 1: for it and we can send.

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Speaker 3: It to Luigi Mangioni. He is not the victim here.

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Speaker 1: But you know you can't count out the defense attorney Agnafello.

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Speaker 1: He got Sean Combs off on the major accusations in

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Speaker 1: that indictment. So no matter how ridiculous I may think

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Speaker 1: he sounds, he essentially won that case. Yes, his his

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Speaker 1: defense team that claims Luigi Mangioni is the victim. I

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Speaker 1: want to read it, doctor Judy Hope, beautiful promising life

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Speaker 1: derailed by those irritating murder charges.

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Speaker 7: Judy, Wow, beautiful promising life, Nancy, what a narrative.

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Speaker 8: And as you said, even though he's not the victim.

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Speaker 7: I think this is why there has been a fan

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Speaker 7: base though, because there's these individuals who actually believe maybe

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Speaker 7: he is a victim, that he's some type of anti hero,

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Speaker 7: that he's misunderstood. And oftentimes we see this in individuals

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Speaker 7: who might act charismatically, they just seem to pull people in.

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Speaker 7: And it's weird because a lot of these people who

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Speaker 7: develop this.

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Speaker 8: Sort of fan fanhood around Luigi.

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Speaker 7: They're kind of thinking, well, maybe I can be a

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Speaker 7: special person in his life, maybe he'll pay attention to me.

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Speaker 8: Maybe I can even develop a friendship with this person.

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Speaker 8: This person might learn to trust me. It's really interesting,

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Speaker 8: but some of it actually has to do with a

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Speaker 8: self centeredness of people who might actually talk to him,

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Speaker 8: that they're hoping to get something special out of it

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Speaker 8: for themselves.

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Speaker 3: I'm sorry, darted Udio.

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Speaker 1: I know you're the clinical and forensic neuropsychologist, but I

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Speaker 1: don't even know what you just said. How can the

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Speaker 1: defense stand up and say this is not about the

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Speaker 1: murder victim. Can we show, please, Brian Thompson walking along

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Speaker 1: and he's gunned down in cold blood, leaving behind two

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Speaker 1: sons and a wife. That's the victim, according to prosecutors,

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Speaker 1: is Luigi Mangioni holding a three D weapon that he

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Speaker 1: made that it took dozens and dozens of hours to

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Speaker 1: so he can gun down a guy walking to work

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Speaker 1: in the back. You stated, I don't know what that was,

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Speaker 1: doctor Judijo. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying

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Speaker 1: I'm just a trial lawyer didn't understand it.

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Speaker 3: But I think I know.

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Speaker 1: Some of the people that consider Luigi Mangioni to be

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Speaker 1: the victim.

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Speaker 3: And here they are filing in to court.

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Speaker 1: Okay, oh what Luigi fights fascists.

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Speaker 3: Okay, look at this line.

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Speaker 1: Now, wait till you see the cat walk parade of

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Speaker 1: sad sack women filing in to They won't even show

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Speaker 1: their face to get a glimpse of Luigi Mangioni.

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Speaker 3: Yes, keep it going, Keep.

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Speaker 1: It going, because I've got hours of people. Yeah, that

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Speaker 1: was totally walking the cat walk right there, clamoring to

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Speaker 1: get in to just bask in the glow of Luigi Mangioni.

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Speaker 1: Oh it keeps going. Yeah, on and on. They had

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Speaker 1: to turn women away, and it's not just women.

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Speaker 3: Listen.

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Speaker 9: So this is who police believe was responsible for the

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Speaker 9: United Healthcare ceo PP. His name's Glubigi. All I can say,

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Speaker 9: isa miya, does he need a Mario? I believe it

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Speaker 9: was a great philosopher and poet once said, Mama, I'm

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Speaker 9: in love with a criminal, and this type of love

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Speaker 9: isn't rational, it's physical. That was Britney Spears, and I

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Speaker 9: believe we're all feeling that right now, I believe, if

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Speaker 9: you're going to do superhero like shit, you better look

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Speaker 9: like one. Okay, this man clearly did that. Did he

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Speaker 9: train at the Marvel Studios with all the other crisis Okay,

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Speaker 9: because Luigi, that's a spicy meat the ball. I'm so sorry.

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Speaker 9: I believe if we're going to claim to be a

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Speaker 9: Christian nation, that we need to act like one. And

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Speaker 9: part of acting like that is practicing forgiveness. And after

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Speaker 9: a lot of seconds of thinking, I have decided I'm

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Speaker 9: gonna forgive him. I'm ready to forgive him, right, but

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Speaker 9: not forget, because I mean, my god, how could you

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Speaker 9: forget an angel like this? I'm not gonna For a

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Speaker 9: while thought, oh my god, we're never gonna find him,

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Speaker 9: you know. And I was wrong, because somewhere on the

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Speaker 9: way the ups and downs, the highs and lows, the

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Speaker 9: masks and no masks, this man he found a way

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Speaker 9: into our hearts. He did.

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Speaker 1: I hardly even know where to start with that. That

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Speaker 1: is from mister William's spreck on TikTok. I'm in love

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Speaker 1: with a criminal and I forgive him after a few

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Speaker 1: seconds of consideration, Doctor gud Hoe It.

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Speaker 3: I can't say it gets worse. But there's more. Listen,

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Speaker 3: you can't take my man, his blood on his head.

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Speaker 3: When you're the one with the good.

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Speaker 1: Who's tacking lash for fun, you can't take my man.

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Speaker 1: And that's from Scarlett park TikTok. So it's gone beyond

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Speaker 1: calling him a spicy meatball. These people actually consider Luigimi

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Speaker 1: and Gioni their man, and they are angry with the

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Speaker 1: fans for prosecuting.

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Speaker 3: What have I gone down the rabbit hole?

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Speaker 1: Am I in some crazy bizarre alice in Wonderland?

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Speaker 3: What is happening, doctor Judy Hoe.

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Speaker 4: I know it.

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Speaker 7: Seems completely unbelievable, Nancy, but this does happen. People start

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Speaker 7: to idolize these potential uh. I mean, clearly this is

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Speaker 7: a defendant, right, But they're thinking, in their minds, this

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Speaker 7: person is innocent. Maybe I'm gonna be their special person,

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Speaker 7: and they're lusting after them the way that they would

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Speaker 7: lust after a celebrity, especially when they see photos and

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Speaker 7: videos that they can start cutting into their own social media.

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Speaker 7: They're developing a fictionalized relationship with him, a fantasy and

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Speaker 7: essentially completely erasing all of the facts that have been

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Speaker 7: evident in this case.

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Speaker 8: And clearly the defendant's.

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Speaker 7: Attorneys are trying to paint that picture as well, leaning

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Speaker 7: into it as hard as possible, because they're hoping to

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Speaker 7: influence the public opinion even before a jury is selected,

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Speaker 7: so that they can hopefully get him the outcome that

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Speaker 7: he wants, which is apparently to escape a death sentence,

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Speaker 7: escape prison. Maybe I'm not sure exactly what they think

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Speaker 7: is possible, but that's what's so scary about all the

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Speaker 7: positivity that has developed around his persona in terms of

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Speaker 7: all of these illustrations, the website they set up about

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Speaker 7: and it's really concerning.

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Speaker 3: And you know, Cheryl mccollumy is joining me.

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Speaker 1: Cold Case Investigative Research instituet, founder, author of a brand

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Speaker 1: new book, Swans Don't Swim in a Sewer, Solving the

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Speaker 1: Cold Case of the Flint River Killer's Daughter on Amazon. Cheryl, Okay,

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Speaker 1: do you remember the night that you and I were

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Speaker 1: out until two o'clock in the morning staking out a

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Speaker 1: location where we thought Luigi Mangioni was going to be apprehended.

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Speaker 3: Do you remember that night? Because I sure do I do.

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Speaker 1: How has this gotten so bass ackwards, Cheryl Nancy?

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Speaker 4: It is mind boggling that anybody is trying to paint

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Speaker 4: this killer as the victim. I mean, the victim's life

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Speaker 4: was not just promising, it was in full swing. He

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Speaker 4: had a wife and children, and a career at the

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Speaker 4: highest level. He had friends and extended family. He had

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Speaker 4: everything going for him. Mangione had none of that, but

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Speaker 4: he took everything those children, and I'm going to tell

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Speaker 4: you something, when you look at the people that are

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Speaker 4: contacting him, I hope and pray that those six thousand

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Speaker 4: letters that he's got, that one hundred and fifteen a day,

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Speaker 4: that there's some good intel in there too, because he

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Speaker 4: is writing people back, so he's communicating, and I hope

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Speaker 4: they're listing every piece of it.

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Speaker 1: Somehow this has gotten topsy turvy upside down. I haven't

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Speaker 1: even gotten into the legal implications of what is happening

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Speaker 1: in court. I'm just so concerned that one of these

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Speaker 1: nutjobs is going to end up on the ultimate jury

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Speaker 1: and acquit Luigi Mangioni under the misconception that he is

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Speaker 1: somehow the victim. Again in court, his lawyers and I'm quoting,

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Speaker 1: claim that his beautiful, promising life has been.

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Speaker 3: Derailed murder charges.

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Speaker 1: It's all about me, me me, me, me, me, This

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Speaker 1: is a millionaire's son, multimillionaire who grew up with silver

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Speaker 1: spoon stuck in his mouth and has been living in

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Speaker 1: a Hawaii high rise on the beach doing nothing, and

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Speaker 1: yet he's the victim. Can you imagine, Cheryl McCollum, how

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Speaker 1: hard Thompson had to work to get to become the

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Speaker 1: CEO at United Healthcare. It wasn't handed to him on

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Speaker 1: a silver platter on top of a Christmas tree like

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Speaker 1: it was MANGIONI. He had to work and sacrifice long,

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Speaker 1: long hours to get to where he got to to

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Speaker 1: be gunned down like a dog on the sidewalk, Cheryl.

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Speaker 4: Nancy, you cannot compare these two people. That's why I

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Speaker 4: agree with you. This whole thing is upside down. Not

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Speaker 4: only did the victim work and sacrifice, so did his wife.

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Speaker 4: You know what it is. You know how long David

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Speaker 4: has gone during the day. It's not an eight hour day,

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Speaker 4: it's a sixteen seventeen hour game. He was playing at

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Speaker 4: the top of his game. There's no doubt about it.

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Speaker 4: Mangione was giving nothing to a family, He was giving

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Speaker 4: nothing to society. He was contributing z rows and again,

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Speaker 4: what he took cannot even be measured.

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Speaker 1: If I hear one more person talk about his back pain,

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Speaker 1: that's you, Cali Brantley. I think my head's gonna blow

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Speaker 1: off because I have videos of him tickling these girls

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Speaker 1: and picking them up just before the shooting. I can't

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Speaker 1: show it because it has the girl's faces in it.

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Speaker 3: But he was feeling no pain.

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Speaker 1: But it's all about me, me, me, me, me, why me?

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Speaker 1: And he's certainly not the first. Let me refresh your recollection,

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Speaker 1: as we say in court with bride killer Jamie Lee Koumarowski.

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Speaker 1: Listen to her, right, just don't know why that's hard

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Speaker 1: to happen to.

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Speaker 7: Me, because bad things happen to good.

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Speaker 5: People, Haney, That's why.

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Speaker 3: It's just it's just something that happened to you.

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Speaker 5: And we are going to deal with the best week past.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Dave mac joining me, Crimes Stories investigative reporter. You

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Speaker 1: know who the bride killer is, right, Jamie Lee Komarowski.

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Speaker 2: She's guilty. She got totally.

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Speaker 1: Stinking drunk and plowed into a beautiful bride leaving her

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Speaker 1: wedding reception with the groom and killed her. And there

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Speaker 1: she is behind bars, going why is this happening to.

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Speaker 10: Me one, look and listen to her father, Nancy, what

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Speaker 10: does he say, Well, bad things happen to good people.

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Speaker 10: No they don't. You just killed somebody because of your

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Speaker 10: own actions. See, we've got a whole group of people

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Speaker 10: now that never want to admit they did anything wrong.

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Speaker 10: Everything is on them. How can you possibly think man

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Speaker 10: Joni is sitting here saying his life is derailed. Well,

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Speaker 10: he destroyed another life and another family. Kamarowski sitting in jail,

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Speaker 10: Why is this happening to me?

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Speaker 3: Well?

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Speaker 7: Why not?

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Speaker 4: What did you expect?

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Speaker 10: What happened?

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Speaker 3: Sick of this?

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Speaker 10: Nancy is getting really tiresome.

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Speaker 1: And there is her victim, Samantha Miller in her wedding dress,

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Speaker 1: just before she's mowed down dead by Jamie Lee Komarowski.

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Speaker 3: And here's I.

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Speaker 1: Guess this would have to be the Miss Universe of

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Speaker 1: Yme Jody Arius check her out. She is more concerned

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Speaker 1: about her makeup as she is approaching trial in the

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Speaker 1: brutal stabbing and shooting death of her fiance, Travis Alexander,

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Speaker 1: who was stabbed at least twenty nine times. Joe Scott

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Speaker 1: Morgan and I have argued about that. I say it

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Speaker 1: was more than that check it out, Jody Areas, you

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Speaker 1: should have at least done your makeup before you speak

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Speaker 1: to police about murdering your fiance when he broke up

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Speaker 1: and started seeing someone else. That earlier video from forty

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Speaker 1: eight hours Jo Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, do you recall

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Speaker 1: Travis Alexander's death? Hey, stay on that video because is

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Speaker 1: they're about to question her about what could have happened

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Speaker 1: to Travis Alexander. She starts singing and there you go,

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Speaker 1: does a headstand and bemoans the fact she doesn't have

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Speaker 1: on her lip gloss. Talk about me, me, me, Joe Scott,

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Speaker 1: what happened to Travis?

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Speaker 11: Yeah, he was brutally murdered, Nancy. She had him stripped down, nude,

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Speaker 11: taking a shower, taking dirtie pictures, if you will, And

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Speaker 11: while his back is turned, she takes a knife and

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Speaker 11: plunges it into his back over and over and over again.

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Speaker 11: When he turns around to defend himself to try to

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Speaker 11: parry her stabs at him, he gets stabbed in the

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Speaker 11: chest as well. And if it wasn't enough, after he

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Speaker 11: spits up blood onto his stink, onto his sink, he

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Speaker 11: crawls tries to crawl away from her down the hallway,

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Speaker 11: she straddles him and cuts his throat from ear to

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Speaker 11: ear and the kupdi gras she shoots him after he

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Speaker 11: is dead. That's the kind of human that you're looking

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Speaker 11: at right here. She's absolutely disgusting and.

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Speaker 1: It's all about me, me, me, Scott Morgan, you've seen

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Speaker 1: it all. I'm gonna try to say, say you something

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Speaker 1: you haven't seen yet. Speaking of me, me, me, and

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Speaker 1: criminal defendants focusing only on themselves and not their victims.

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Speaker 1: There is the drunk, stinking drunk a d A Assistant

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Speaker 1: district's attorney Devin flanneing and listen to her.

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Speaker 2: As what the protocol is.

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Speaker 1: Protocol is by asketers turn off the body?

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Speaker 3: Can you have to turn it off?

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Speaker 5: And that's your protocol, lawyer.

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Speaker 11: So she knows well that lawyers.

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Speaker 6: So that's not true.

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Speaker 3: So we gotta go no it is. That's that's a law.

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Speaker 8: I'm an age, I'm an aging.

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Speaker 10: Good for you.

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Speaker 3: Let's go on.

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Speaker 1: Those two were kicked out of I think it was

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Speaker 1: a bar for being drunk and belligerent. Then you've got,

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Speaker 1: oh gosh, she's been called a screaming bands she and

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Speaker 1: do you hear going I'm an a da, I'm an ada.

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Speaker 3: Every sin it starts with I. I I listen to

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Speaker 3: this woman, Joe Scott. He needs not judge me. He

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Speaker 3: he wants to call a salt. We're gonna go through

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Speaker 3: that row. No, he wants to go through assault.

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Speaker 2: No, we're not doing that.

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Speaker 3: Then no, he he claims I assaulted him.

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Speaker 5: No, we're not doing that.

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Speaker 2: We're not doing that.

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Speaker 1: And then, of course maybe this one beats Jody Arius. No, no, no,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to go with Luigi Mangioni.

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Speaker 3: And he's a beautiful life.

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Speaker 1: Dearield, I'm sure you recall Shana Hubers that gave her

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Speaker 1: ex boyfriend the quote nos jop he always wanted with

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Speaker 1: a handgun.

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Speaker 3: Listen, Starry Vain.

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Speaker 9: One of our last conversations we had that was good

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Speaker 9: was sitting once my best friend of the dentists to

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Speaker 9: do with the marrs and want to get a noob,

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Speaker 9: just that kind of person.

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Speaker 12: And I'm right here.

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Speaker 2: I gave him his nose job.

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Speaker 12: He wanted.

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Speaker 7: I want to marry me if they.

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Speaker 9: Know that I kill my boyfriend and helped. Not funny,

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Speaker 9: but I'm not, you.

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Speaker 12: Know.

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Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan, Professor, forensics and death investigator. Your forte

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Speaker 1: is dead bodies and causes of death and modes of death.

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Speaker 3: Let me go to special guests.

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Speaker 1: Joining us now, Doctor Angela Arnold, renowned psychiatrists joining us

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Speaker 1: out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, Doctor Angie Arnold, what is that?

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you saw this for yourself, but

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Speaker 1: me and Gioni's defensive team is actually arguing.

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Speaker 3: His life was derailed by the murder charges.

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Speaker 13: You know, Nancy, My thought is that's all they've got.

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Speaker 13: Who cares if his life was derailed. He is accused

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Speaker 13: of murdering someone. Maybe his life should be derailed. But

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Speaker 13: the way I feel about this is, Nancy, that's all

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Speaker 13: they've got to say. That is the only thing they've got.

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Speaker 1: I've seen photos of Luegia Minchioni practicing yoga, tickling.

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Speaker 3: Multiple girls in a hallway all at once. Every shot

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Speaker 3: I see of him, he's out in nature. He's not

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Speaker 3: at work. We keep hearing he quit his job. He

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Speaker 3: was laid off. Gee, I wonder why maybe the job

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Speaker 3: interfered with the.

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Speaker 2: Tickling crime stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 1: Throughout this week, Luigia Mangioni and his defensive team have

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Speaker 1: been fighting it out in court to get a lot

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Speaker 1: of evidence suppressed. Forget about all the sad sack women

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Speaker 1: lined up to get in. Forget about the martyrdom of

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Speaker 1: Luigi Mangioni.

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Speaker 3: Let's talk about the facts and the law.

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Speaker 14: Listen taking orders as she tells the operator, I have

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Speaker 14: a customer here that some other customers were suspicious of that.

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Speaker 14: He looks like the CEO shooter in New York, and

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Speaker 14: they're generally upset and come to me, and I'm like,

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Speaker 14: I can't approach him. The manager continues working and can

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Speaker 14: be heard talking about bagels, at one point shouting one

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Speaker 14: of them is no better. The nine one one operator,

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Speaker 14: Emily States, testifies about the call and is heard to

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Speaker 14: ask for a description, with the manager replying, the only

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Speaker 14: thing you can see is the eyebrows.

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Speaker 1: Joining us is Skuy Lazarro. She's a veteran criminal defense attorney.

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Speaker 1: She's practiced in both She's practiced in both state and

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Speaker 1: federal court. She is with Ray Quinny and nebeker Sky.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. If the defense is

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Speaker 1: arguing that Luigimngioni was illegally arrested, the nine to one

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Speaker 1: one call occurred before the arrest, So what could be

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Speaker 1: the possible grounds for suppressing that call by the McDonald's manager.

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Speaker 15: I think they're going to have a really hard time

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Speaker 15: keeping the nine one one call out. I can understand

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Speaker 15: it from a defense perspective. You have to try, but

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Speaker 15: when it comes to nine to one one calls, as

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Speaker 15: long as you can lay the foundation for it, it's

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Speaker 15: probably coming in.

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Speaker 1: I can tell you one thing I know Sky lazarro

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Speaker 1: that they hate about this nine to one one call.

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Speaker 1: We had the same thing happen in the Idaho Slaghings

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Speaker 1: for Beautiful Idaho University Students, where Dylan Mortenson described Brian

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Speaker 1: Coberger's freaky, bushy eyebrows.

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Speaker 3: Listen, just remember seeing.

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Speaker 16: This figure that was like not fat obviously, but more

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Speaker 16: of like the skinnyer tongue build.

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Speaker 3: And some mask on.

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Speaker 16: I don't know what the ma exactly was, but when

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Speaker 16: I thought about it, it was just like covering here

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Speaker 16: and here. I don't know if he's covering his mouth

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Speaker 16: his nose or below his mouth and nose. I just

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Speaker 16: remember knowing that he was white, but I didn't know

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Speaker 16: how he was white. I just knew he was and

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Speaker 16: this knowing there's like I knew he had looked at

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Speaker 16: me because of a bushy eye.

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Speaker 9: That's all I remember.

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Speaker 1: Joining me is Tom Smith, former NYPD detective thirty years now,

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Speaker 1: star of the gold Shields podcast, and he covered the

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Speaker 1: very same streets where Brian Thompson was gunned down in

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Speaker 1: cold blood. You know, I have had a killer identified.

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Speaker 1: He was a chef, by the way, identified by a

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Speaker 1: particular limp that he had. I've had a bank robber

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Speaker 1: identified because he walked sleugh footed, in other words, like

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Speaker 1: a duck. They are all sorts of ways to identify someone.

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Speaker 1: It can be by voice, it could be any number

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Speaker 1: of things. In this case, the McDonald's manager said, bushy eyebrows,

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Speaker 1: and there's.

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Speaker 3: No doubt that's Luigi Mangioni.

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Speaker 2: They hate it.

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Speaker 3: They hate that identification.

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Speaker 12: Tom, Yeah, they do, because you know, it shows how

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Speaker 12: important Nancy and we did this when we first started

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Speaker 12: talking about this case, how important the videos and all

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Speaker 12: the photos were to get out to the public, even

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Speaker 12: if his face was covered, even if he was in

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Speaker 12: a cab or whatever it was, because those eyebrows jumped

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Speaker 12: off the page to everyone who looked at it. That

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Speaker 12: was the number one thing that everyone looked at as

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Speaker 12: a looking point and identification point when it came to him,

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Speaker 12: and it just showed that the quicker they got those

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Speaker 12: photos out, the better it was.

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Speaker 1: In the end of this. You know, I'm very curious

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Speaker 1: about this, the fact that he is identified at McDonald's

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Speaker 1: by his eye browse, among other things. Let's say the

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Speaker 1: pictures of the McDonald's. There you go, there, he is

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Speaker 1: at McDonald's. But skyl Azaara, don't you think that the

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Speaker 1: defense should be more concerned about the fact that he

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Speaker 1: can be identified at the time of the killing.

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Speaker 3: He showed his face repeatedly.

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Speaker 5: I agree with you.

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Speaker 15: He probably should have been a little bit more careful

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Speaker 15: at that time and that should be the stuff they're

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Speaker 15: seeking to exclude, and maybe they will, I think as

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Speaker 15: it goes to the nine to one one call. The

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Speaker 15: defense's probably only argument is that these are witnesses who

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Speaker 15: identified him, not from the shooting. They weren't there that night,

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Speaker 15: so they can't say I saw him do the shooting.

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Speaker 15: They just want to exclude it because he's at the McDonald's.

438
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:47,080
Speaker 15: The problem is they get to the McDonald's and it

439
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:48,200
Speaker 15: turns out to be him.

440
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:52,680
Speaker 1: Speaking of getting to the McDonald's. The defense is arguing

441
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:57,320
Speaker 1: that while he wasn't really under arrest, he was kind

442
00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:01,119
Speaker 1: of under arrest because so many police started showing up

443
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,520
Speaker 1: and massing at the McDonald's. They were concerned, if this

444
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:08,720
Speaker 1: is Luigi Mangioni, the healthcare assassin, he's probably armed, and.

445
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:11,400
Speaker 3: As a matter of fact, he was. He was armed.

446
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:14,080
Speaker 1: There was a weapon in his backpack sitting right there

447
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 1: with him, so they were right. Now, what the defense

448
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 1: is arguing is that having multipolice multiple police officers show

449
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 1: up is tantamount equal to arresting him. Why do we

450
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 1: care because police engage in a conversation with him to

451
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 1: identify him, and he spilled a lot of information in

452
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:38,639
Speaker 1: that conversation. The state says it was before his arrest.

453
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:43,840
Speaker 1: Why does it matter, because a statement taken while you

454
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 1: are in custody without miranda will be suppressed. So they

455
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 1: want the judge to believe that because several police officers

456
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:57,359
Speaker 1: showed up at McDonald's, that me and Gioni was effectively

457
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 1: under arrest in any statement he made pre.

458
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:02,920
Speaker 3: Miranda should be suppressed.

459
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:07,480
Speaker 1: That's not going to happen when I walk into Let's

460
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:10,879
Speaker 1: just pretend a Chipotle and all the Atlanta PD are

461
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 1: in there getting a salad.

462
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 3: I don't feel like I'm under arrest. Think about it. Listen.

463
00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:21,440
Speaker 14: Mangoni stares at monitors showing his arrest at McDonald's. Manjoni

464
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,880
Speaker 14: sits to eat breakfast. At nine oh three. Eleven minutes later,

465
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 14: the nine one one call is made. Nine twenty eight

466
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:30,800
Speaker 14: two police officers show up and begin talking to Mangoni.

467
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 14: The restaurant slowly begins to fill with police until nine

468
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:36,960
Speaker 14: forty two, when at least eight officers are visible on

469
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,959
Speaker 14: the recording. The defense claims packing the place with police

470
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 14: amounts to unlawful attention prior to Mangoni's arrest. Agnifilo argues

471
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:47,960
Speaker 14: police surrounding Mangoni and the McDonald's this tantamount to illegally

472
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:51,720
Speaker 14: detaining the alleged killer. Agniffilo also takes exception with the

473
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:55,119
Speaker 14: way officers treated Mangoni's backpack during the arrest, claiming it

474
00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:57,399
Speaker 14: was warrantlessly searched on the scene.

475
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:01,160
Speaker 3: In other words, they looked in his back. Cheryl McCollum

476
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:01,840
Speaker 3: joining me.

477
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 1: She is not only a crime scene investigator and founder

478
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 1: of the Cold Case Research Institute, but she is also

479
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 1: the star of a hit podcast which I actually put

480
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:16,560
Speaker 1: on a loop sometimes. Cheryl McCollum, Zone seven, Cheryl McCollum,

481
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:18,640
Speaker 1: has it ever dawned on you when you go into

482
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:22,240
Speaker 1: McDonald's for a cup of coffee, that you're arresting somebody,

483
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:27,120
Speaker 1: that you're a mere presence equals an arrest, Because that's

484
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:29,679
Speaker 1: what they're arguing and what they're trying to do, Cheryl,

485
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 1: is get out from under what Manngioni said to police

486
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:34,879
Speaker 1: pre miranda and.

487
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 3: Them finding evidence in his backpack.

488
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 4: I think the body cam is going to be so

489
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 4: critical here because it's going to show all of his actions.

490
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 4: It's going to, you know, show the world that he

491
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 4: stood up and thought he was under arrest. Only a

492
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 4: guilty person would think that, Nancy. What the defense is

493
00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 4: doing is there basically, look, you use newer to make

494
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 4: something grow, right, So they are planting and cultivating and

495
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:07,720
Speaker 4: trying to grow this story that he's the victim, that

496
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 4: he didn't do anything, that he was under arrest, and

497
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 4: now we can't use anything, and it's just be a while.

498
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 3: This legal warfare is taking place in a courtroom.

499
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 1: Manzione's attorneys continue to insist that he's the victim.

500
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:27,640
Speaker 17: He's a young man and he is being treated like

501
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:31,280
Speaker 17: a human ping pong ball between two warring jurisdictions here,

502
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 17: and they are literally treating him like he is like

503
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 17: some sort of political fodder, like some sort of spectacle.

504
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:43,560
Speaker 3: He was on display for everyone to see in the.

505
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 17: Biggest staged purp walk I've ever seen in my career.

506
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 17: There was no reason for the NYPD and everybody to

507
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 17: have these big assault rifles that frankly I had no

508
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 17: idea it was in their arsenal.

509
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:57,200
Speaker 3: And to have all of these these the.

510
00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:00,520
Speaker 17: Press there, the media there, it was like perfectly core aoreograph.

511
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 17: And what was the New York City mayor doing at

512
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 17: this press conference?

513
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 3: He is a walking talking contradiction.

514
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 4: He supposedly is against this wealthy CEO is yet he

515
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:12,400
Speaker 4: comes for money.

516
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:15,440
Speaker 1: This is a guy living in a high rise in

517
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 1: Honolulu waking up to the beach every morning.

518
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 3: Did you wake up to a beach this morning?

519
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 1: Dec?

520
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:20,720
Speaker 5: I sertain not.

521
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 1: The Luigi Mangioni defense is fighting tooth and nail to

522
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 1: keep out what happened in that McDonald's, and as Cheryl

523
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 1: McCombs pointed out, that bodycam is going to be so

524
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 1: significant because it doesn't matter what the state says. It

525
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 1: doesn't matter what the defense says or how much Luigi

526
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 1: Mangioni claims he's the victim. What matters is what really

527
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 1: happened inside that McDonald's. They're not going to get the

528
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:47,480
Speaker 1: nine one one call suppressed, that's not happening. But what

529
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:50,520
Speaker 1: happened in the McDonald's Is the state going to lose

530
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 1: valuable evidence on illegal technicality?

531
00:30:55,080 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 3: Why is it they want that backpack suppressed?

532
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 1: Straight out to Investigator at large for dailymail dot Com

533
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 1: kill Lebrandley.

534
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 3: What was in the backpack? Nancy?

535
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 6: There was a three D printed gun. It's a handgun

536
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:16,640
Speaker 6: which is believed to could possibly be the murder weapon.

537
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:19,720
Speaker 6: There was a notebook with handwritten notes in it, and

538
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 6: he also had a knife on him, which was discovered

539
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 6: about twenty minutes later, so he was armed and at

540
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 6: that point he was considered very dangerous.

541
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:29,080
Speaker 3: Okay, hold on, what did you.

542
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 1: Say was written in Mangione's spiral notebook that was in

543
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:35,080
Speaker 1: his backpack that he.

544
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 6: Wanted any use the word whack the healthcare CEO whack

545
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 6: meaning kill herd destroy.

546
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 1: No wonder they want it suppressed to Dave mac Crime

547
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 1: Stories investigative reporter. Tell me about the three D gun

548
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:53,240
Speaker 1: sometimes called a ghost gun.

549
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 10: But Nancy, you know we've been we have not been

550
00:31:56,240 --> 00:32:00,080
Speaker 10: given the very specifics of what type of gun. We

551
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 10: know it's a pistol, but we don't know the exact

552
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 10: name of it. Three D printed firearms take a massive

553
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:10,040
Speaker 10: amount of time and filament far more than any other.

554
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 10: Deliberator is the most common, and it's the easiest one

555
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 10: to print. It takes the shortest amount of time. Deliberator

556
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 10: takes thirty hours of constant printing with non stop printing.

557
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:25,600
Speaker 10: Nancy thirty hours to print the easiest of all the pistols.

558
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 1: Tom Smith, here's the thing with a ghost gun is

559
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:35,800
Speaker 1: made on a three D printer. Tom, It's unserialized. That's

560
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:40,720
Speaker 1: why they're so popular amongst criminals. You think Grandpa as

561
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:43,880
Speaker 1: is long gun, is shotgun under the bed? You think

562
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:46,680
Speaker 1: it's a three D printed gun. No, it's got a

563
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 1: serial number. Why is it so serious that a ghost

564
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 1: gun is un serialized.

565
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 12: Well, because you can't trace it. No matter what you

566
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:01,040
Speaker 12: do with that weapon, it cannot be traced back to you.

567
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 12: And that is why so many criminals and Luigi Maggioni

568
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:08,400
Speaker 12: of course went to the lengths that he did to

569
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 12: make that gun, because that is the predetermined and premeditation

570
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 12: of it. Already, he's already thinking ahead of that gun

571
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 12: not being traced to him, and that is part of

572
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 12: this as well.

573
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 1: Tom Smith, you're exactly correct. To Joseph Scott Morgan, let

574
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:28,480
Speaker 1: me introduce him formally. He is a professor of forensics

575
00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:31,800
Speaker 1: at Jacksonville State University with an incredible criminal procedure program.

576
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 1: He's the author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon.

577
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 1: He is a death investigator that has handled thousands of

578
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:42,120
Speaker 1: death sayings, and he's a star of hit podcast Body.

579
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 1: Back to Joe Scott Morgan. Joe Scott, what is a

580
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 1: suppressor or commonly known as a silencer.

581
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:57,600
Speaker 11: Yeah, stay away from the term silencer, because no weapon

582
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 11: is silenced, it is suppressed. That means that the crack

583
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 11: of the sound you're talking about a perhaps supersonic round,

584
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,800
Speaker 11: it's traveling, you know, past the speed of sound. So

585
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:11,879
Speaker 11: what you want to do is reduce that sound that's

586
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:15,040
Speaker 11: put forth from the muzzle. If you take a close look,

587
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:17,279
Speaker 11: I'm glad that you have that image. You take a

588
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 11: close look at that weapon. There the end of that

589
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:24,840
Speaker 11: muzzle is actually threaded. What that means is is that

590
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 11: it's adaptable. It's adaptable to contain a suppressor. The suppressor

591
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:33,600
Speaker 11: is displayed here. It's that long black cylindrical object there.

592
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 11: It can be screwed on on the end. Well, you

593
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 11: want to knock down the sound, so it's not going

594
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 11: to draw attention to you when you fired this thing.

595
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:45,360
Speaker 11: Because let's just say that it is a non suppressed weapon.

596
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:48,279
Speaker 11: This thing's going to echo through the canyons down there

597
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 11: in Manhattan, through all of those buildings. You'll still hear

598
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 11: a sound, but it'll be a slight crack. It's not

599
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:57,680
Speaker 11: like it's portrayed in movies, okay, but it will reduce

600
00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:00,360
Speaker 11: the sound, it doesn't completely eliminate it. And the purpose

601
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:02,440
Speaker 11: of this is so that you're not going to draw

602
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:07,880
Speaker 11: attention to any one. It does reduce, say, some of

603
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:11,720
Speaker 11: the capabilities of the weapon as far as the effectiveness

604
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 11: of it at a greater range. But this is not

605
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:17,279
Speaker 11: a close range. As a matter of fact, if we

606
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 11: were to look at the body here, it would be

607
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:23,040
Speaker 11: classified as indeterminate because you're not going to have any

608
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 11: kind of sut deposition gun unperned gunpowder. It will have

609
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:30,799
Speaker 11: fallen away by that time, but this is not too

610
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:33,480
Speaker 11: distant of a shot. You'll still have that same muzzle

611
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 11: velocity striking into Brian Thompson's body. It's effectively lethal.

612
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:44,880
Speaker 1: Joining me now, the star of Zone seven podcast, Cheryl

613
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:50,840
Speaker 1: McCollum is with us. Cheryl who has un serialized guns

614
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:53,960
Speaker 1: and silencers.

615
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:57,279
Speaker 4: Criminals, And maybe there's another thing. Even though this is

616
00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:01,280
Speaker 4: a three D printed weapon, it's still gonna lead marking

617
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:05,360
Speaker 4: on casons and they're gonna be able to be, you know,

618
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:10,800
Speaker 4: determined that this weapon fired the bullets that murdered Brian Thompson.

619
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 4: So forensically, it's not going to get you out of trouble.

620
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:17,960
Speaker 4: They may not can trace it to a manufacturer, to

621
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:23,720
Speaker 4: a bar that they can absolutely determine that that bullet

622
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 4: was fired by that weapon.

623
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:29,920
Speaker 3: Cheryl McCollum, you're so right, and Tom Smith, this is

624
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 3: like a fish in water for you. Every day you

625
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 3: were getting off.

626
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:38,880
Speaker 1: The streets of Manhattan guns to match with bullets, bullets

627
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:43,680
Speaker 1: that were literally dug out of victims' bodies.

628
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:46,080
Speaker 3: And Cheryl said it right.

629
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:50,799
Speaker 2: A bullet hurls down the barrel of.

630
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:54,359
Speaker 1: A gun, that gun may look like all the other

631
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:58,320
Speaker 1: guns in the gun store showcase. But it's not because

632
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:03,400
Speaker 1: inside the barrel, the metal has cooled in a certain

633
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 1: way and it leaves ridges and imperfections on the inside

634
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:12,880
Speaker 1: of the barrel, and as that bullet shoots down the barrel,

635
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:19,759
Speaker 1: it is forever marked by those imperfections. So when you

636
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:22,600
Speaker 1: take the murder weapon to the crime lab and you

637
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:25,920
Speaker 1: shoot a bullet through the murder weapon, and you take

638
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:29,000
Speaker 1: the known bullet dug out of the victim and you

639
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:31,800
Speaker 1: put it under a microscope next to the one you

640
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:37,440
Speaker 1: just shot, it's like a fingerprint. No other gun, be

641
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:41,759
Speaker 1: it a three D printed gun, a grandma's Bessie's out

642
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:46,719
Speaker 1: from under her her mattress, you can track and identify

643
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:50,719
Speaker 1: like a fingerprint, that bullet came from that gun.

644
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:52,840
Speaker 3: Isn't that true?

645
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:56,359
Speaker 12: And that's the best way to say it. It's it's

646
00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:59,320
Speaker 12: the gun's fingerprint and the ballistic check of that in

647
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:02,480
Speaker 12: the twist and all of that is what you match up.

648
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:06,520
Speaker 12: And it is a fingerprint that is unmatchable, you know,

649
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:10,279
Speaker 12: to anyone else. It is strictly to that weapon that

650
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 12: you will match up the weapon. Take the round taken

651
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:16,400
Speaker 12: out of the victim and match it up and that

652
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:19,160
Speaker 12: is damaging when it comes to court.

653
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and Tom Smith, that is why they are

654
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 1: fighting to the death in court to keep that jury

655
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:30,320
Speaker 1: from every knowing of a ballistics match.

656
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:35,560
Speaker 3: That his three day pretty gun is the murder weapon.

657
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 1: Listen to Alvin Bragg, the Manhattan District Attorney, for.

658
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 18: Nearly an hour we alledged to the definitet waited in

659
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:46,960
Speaker 18: the area near the Hilton Hotel waiting for mister Thompson

660
00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:50,799
Speaker 18: to appear. From six thirty eight am to six forty

661
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 18: four am. The defendant stood across from the entrance of

662
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:56,279
Speaker 18: the hotel on West fifty fourth Street. When he saw

663
00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 18: mister Thompson, he crossed the street and approached him from behind.

664
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:04,000
Speaker 18: We alleged he then took out a nine millimeter three

665
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:08,000
Speaker 18: D printed ghost gun equipped with a three D printed

666
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:11,399
Speaker 18: suppressor and shot him once in the back and once

667
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:11,879
Speaker 18: in the leg.

668
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:23,319
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, So what about his beach

669
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:24,240
Speaker 1: bum life?

670
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 3: Just before the assassination.

671
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:29,080
Speaker 7: Right around the time he disappeared, he traps off to

672
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 7: Asia and he went on a backpacking trip.

673
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:34,640
Speaker 1: The beach Bumb photos and the two thousand dollars month

674
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:39,320
Speaker 1: eye Rise and the Frola King and Honolulu. Oh my goodness,

675
00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 1: he might as well bucked up with the writz Caleb Brantley,

676
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:47,959
Speaker 1: Daily Mail. The defense for Luigi Maggioni is also trying

677
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:51,960
Speaker 1: to suppress statements he allegedly made to his guards. He

678
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:56,960
Speaker 1: had special guards behind bars, so nothing would happen to

679
00:39:57,040 --> 00:40:00,719
Speaker 1: him like it did to Epstein. So let's first talk

680
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:06,480
Speaker 1: about Thomas Rivers, the former British infantryman who was minding Mangioni.

681
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:12,200
Speaker 1: What did Manngioni allegedly say to Rivers, Nancy?

682
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:16,320
Speaker 6: Luigi was held for ten days in Pennsylvania, and he

683
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:19,799
Speaker 6: had spoken about being very disappointed that he was being

684
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 6: compared to the unibomber. He also said that mainstream media

685
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 6: was more focused on crime, and that when you looked

686
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:30,880
Speaker 6: at social media, they were really more focused about the

687
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:35,359
Speaker 6: healthcare industry, which, according to this officer, is what Luigi said.

688
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:36,480
Speaker 6: This was really about.

689
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 3: Wow. Sounds like a confession to me, Sky lazarro Oopsie.

690
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:42,360
Speaker 15: Nancy, I agree and disagree.

691
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 3: Here's the problem.

692
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:46,279
Speaker 15: They put these guys in a situation like that in

693
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:49,560
Speaker 15: solitary where they can't talk to anybody else. And the

694
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 15: other thing is that we know these officers didn't document

695
00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:55,400
Speaker 15: any of this. They're supposed to be taking notes seven

696
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:59,600
Speaker 15: times an hour about what he's doing and his well being,

697
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:02,080
Speaker 15: and he don't write down anything like he just made

698
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 15: an admission.

699
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:08,920
Speaker 1: Sky Lazarro, Did you say it's a problem he's being

700
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:12,759
Speaker 1: held in solitary. You know who else is in solitary,

701
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:14,960
Speaker 1: Brian Thompson, except his is a casket.

702
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:17,840
Speaker 2: So you're telling me.

703
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:21,240
Speaker 1: Again, I can't believe you're buying into this, Sky Lazarro,

704
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 1: that he's the one that's being tormented.

705
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:24,359
Speaker 3: You know what else?

706
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:28,920
Speaker 1: He told Rivers that Rivers should really read Doors a

707
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:34,399
Speaker 1: Perception by Aldus Huxley, which is all about psychedelic drug

708
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 1: trips and mystical interpretations. Needless to say, Rivers did not

709
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:45,440
Speaker 1: read the book. But there is another guard that he

710
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:48,520
Speaker 1: talked to. This is the one I'm really interested in listening.

711
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:52,120
Speaker 14: Officer Matt Henry wasn't chatty with the alleged killer. That

712
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:54,680
Speaker 14: doesn't stop Man Jonny from telling Henry he was caught

713
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:57,200
Speaker 14: with a three D printed firearm, the weapon used to

714
00:41:57,280 --> 00:42:01,600
Speaker 14: murder CEO Brian Thompson. Attorney Mark Niphelo challenges Henry, saying,

715
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:04,319
Speaker 14: so he just blurted out to you that he had

716
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:08,680
Speaker 14: a three D printed pistol. Henry Drily replies yes too.

717
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:10,520
Speaker 3: Doctor Angela Arnold joining us.

718
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:13,359
Speaker 1: She's a renowned psychiatrist out of the Atlanta jurisdiction at

719
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:18,280
Speaker 1: Angela Arnold dot com foreim Professor Psychiatry.

720
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:20,080
Speaker 3: It goes on and on.

721
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:24,480
Speaker 1: Former medical director at the psychiatric Obgy Inklin at Grady,

722
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:27,680
Speaker 1: which never has a lack of business. I found a

723
00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:33,840
Speaker 1: lot of witnesses and victims at Grady Hospital, Doctor angel Arnold.

724
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:35,560
Speaker 3: Why is this so hard?

725
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:36,960
Speaker 1: I've met a jury's not going to have a hard

726
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:40,279
Speaker 1: time believing this that Luigi Mangioni, who has had a

727
00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:46,319
Speaker 1: lifetime of entitlement, would blab to his guards why they're

728
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:47,160
Speaker 1: his new friends.

729
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:49,440
Speaker 3: They would never betray him, right?

730
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 6: Yeap?

731
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:51,120
Speaker 9: Oh sure?

732
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:55,520
Speaker 19: And you know, Nancy, he probably suffers from some sort

733
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:59,840
Speaker 19: of personality disorder in which he thinks about him so

734
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 19: an awful lot. So he really doesn't He may not

735
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:07,080
Speaker 19: see that he's done anything wrong, and he probably hasn't

736
00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:10,400
Speaker 19: suffered any consequences for any of his actions in the past,

737
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:14,640
Speaker 19: and so that would make him more likely to almost

738
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:17,080
Speaker 19: be bragging about what he's done and to let other

739
00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:20,880
Speaker 19: people know what he's done. This is typical for his

740
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:24,799
Speaker 19: behavior in all likelihood throughout his existence.

741
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:30,560
Speaker 1: Tom Smith joining me, Former NYPD detective thirty years now,

742
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:35,759
Speaker 1: star co host of gold Shields podcast, Tom, What is

743
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:39,800
Speaker 1: wrong with rich people? Do they think they can just

744
00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:45,360
Speaker 1: get away with everything? Anything and everything they can confess

745
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:47,399
Speaker 1: they can stay. Yeah, they caught me with the three

746
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 1: D printed gun, which is the murder weapon.

747
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:53,600
Speaker 3: What is wrong with them?

748
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:58,279
Speaker 1: Have you noticed the same sense of entitlement sometimes does

749
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:02,440
Speaker 1: them end? Because they think they can buy off everybody

750
00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:03,560
Speaker 1: that everybody wants.

751
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:05,480
Speaker 3: To be their friend, but these two guards do not

752
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:06,480
Speaker 3: want to be his friend.

753
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:11,560
Speaker 12: Yeah, they've lived their whole life like this, Nancy. You

754
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:13,839
Speaker 12: know they've gotten what they want, did they'd either pay

755
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:17,000
Speaker 12: for it or the power that they have has influenced

756
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:20,319
Speaker 12: someone's decision into what they're getting or what they're doing.

757
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:23,760
Speaker 12: And they just think that holds true for every aspect

758
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:27,520
Speaker 12: of their life, including killing someone. I mean, that's how

759
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:30,759
Speaker 12: deranged they are when it comes to the entitlement that

760
00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:34,279
Speaker 12: they believe they are are owed when it comes to

761
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:38,319
Speaker 12: murder or you know, killing a bride. We did that show.

762
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:41,560
Speaker 12: You know, it's just constant and it just keeps coming up,

763
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:43,160
Speaker 12: and it's absolutely disgusting.

764
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:44,439
Speaker 3: Tom.

765
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:45,840
Speaker 1: I want you to look at a picture if I

766
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:47,320
Speaker 1: can get the controller to put it up for me,

767
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:49,920
Speaker 1: dig through those files. I want to see the picture

768
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:55,960
Speaker 1: allegedly Mangiani, who's presumed innocent, holding up the three Day

769
00:44:56,239 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 1: with the silencer on it, pointing directly at Brian Thompson's back.

770
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:07,239
Speaker 1: According to police, he waited an hour for just the

771
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:13,200
Speaker 1: right moment. There's his backpack which was recovered at the McDonald's.

772
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:16,719
Speaker 1: There's his outfit which he had with him. There's the

773
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:18,040
Speaker 1: three D weapon.

774
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:23,240
Speaker 3: And let's look at Brian Thompson walking along early morning

775
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:29,799
Speaker 3: going to a work conference. He shot in the back

776
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:31,080
Speaker 3: right there.

777
00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 1: And I'm not going to play that when he actually

778
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:40,480
Speaker 1: gets shot, because someday, somehow his boys might look this

779
00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:44,240
Speaker 1: up online and I don't want this to be stuck

780
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:51,840
Speaker 1: in their memory. Calla Brantley. Were any of men g

781
00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:55,600
Speaker 1: Only's family members in court and were any of the victims'

782
00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:57,279
Speaker 1: family members in court this week?

783
00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:02,080
Speaker 6: Not that we know of Nancy, but a lot of

784
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:06,960
Speaker 6: Luigi's supporters And one thing, have you heard of pretty privilege?

785
00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:10,680
Speaker 6: Because it absolutely feels like Luigi is benefiting from that

786
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:15,080
Speaker 6: by having hordes of fans because he is a handsome

787
00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:18,080
Speaker 6: man that he is benefiting from pretty privilege. And I'm

788
00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:21,840
Speaker 6: sure his defense team is happy that they have a

789
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:24,280
Speaker 6: relatively attractive man as a client.

790
00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:27,080
Speaker 3: Kiala, I don't find him attractive.

791
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:30,120
Speaker 1: Every time I look at him, I see a tail

792
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:32,400
Speaker 1: swishing in the back and two horns right here.

793
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:33,799
Speaker 3: That's what I see.

794
00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:39,200
Speaker 1: What is happening in court this week is critical. If

795
00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:44,680
Speaker 1: this evidence is suppressed, there may be no justice in

796
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:47,800
Speaker 1: this case. A man shut down on the sidewalk on

797
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:55,200
Speaker 1: video and no justice. We wait as justice of folds.

798
00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:59,920
Speaker 1: But now we remember an American Hero Reserve Deputy Sheriff

799
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:04,879
Speaker 1: John Stall, Jefferson County Sheriff's Indiana, killed in a line

800
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:09,560
Speaker 1: of duty after fifteen years of service, leaving behind a

801
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:16,320
Speaker 1: devastated wife turned widd American Hero Reserve Deputy Shriff John Stall,

802
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:20,000
Speaker 1: Nancy Gray signing off goodbye friend,