Speaker 1: I really do believe people can cultivate a spiritual lifestyle
Speaker 1: by first exploring what their passions are and then building
Speaker 1: it from there. Welcome to The One You Feed. Throughout time,
Speaker 1: great thinkers have recognized the importance of the thoughts we have.
Speaker 1: Quotes like garbage in, garbage out, or you are what
Speaker 1: you think ring true, and yet for many of us,
Speaker 1: our thoughts don't strengthen or empower us. We tend toward negativity,
Speaker 1: self pity, jealousy, or fear. We see what we don't
Speaker 1: have instead of what we do. We think things that
Speaker 1: hold us back and dampen our spirit. But it's not
Speaker 1: just about thinking. Our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent,
Speaker 1: and creative effort to make a life worth living. This
Speaker 1: podcast is about how other people keep themselves moving in
Speaker 1: the right direction, how they feed their good wolf m
Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us. Our guest on this episode is
Speaker 1: Chris Grosso. He's only the third repeat guest on The
Speaker 1: One You Feed. Chris Crosso is a public speaker, writer,
Speaker 1: and author of Indie Spiritualist, a no bullshit exploration of
Speaker 1: spirituality and everything mind. What I've learned about hard knocks,
Speaker 1: spiritual awakening, and the mind blowing truth of it all.
Speaker 1: Chris writes for Origin Magazine, Huffington Post and Mantra and
Speaker 1: Yoga and Health Magazine. He has spoken and performed at
Speaker 1: the Wonderlust Festival, Celebrate Your Life, Yoga Journal Conference, Sedona
Speaker 1: World Wisdom Days, and more. He's a member of the
Speaker 1: advisory board for Drugs Over Dinner and hosts the Indie
Speaker 1: Spiritualist podcast. On the Mind part, there's the interview with
Speaker 1: Chris Crosso. Hi, Chris, welcome to the show. Hey, Eric,
Speaker 1: thank you very much for having me. I appreciate it. Yes,
Speaker 1: you are, I think our third repeat guests, so it
Speaker 1: doesn't happen often, so we are we are happy to
Speaker 1: have you back on. You've written a new book called
Speaker 1: Everything Mind. I have wow, man. Why First of all,
Speaker 1: I did not know I am only your third repeat guests,
Speaker 1: so I am doubly excited now also feeling a bit
Speaker 1: more pressure. I've really got to make sure it's worth
Speaker 1: you guys a while. But no, really, thank you man,
Speaker 1: I really appreciate it. Yeah. Your new book, very much
Speaker 1: like your previous book, The Indie Spiritualist, is really about
Speaker 1: your journey through this the spiritual landscape. The subheading is
Speaker 1: what I've learned about hard knocks, spiritual awakening, and the
Speaker 1: mind blowing truth of it all. So we will dig
Speaker 1: more into that book shortly, but let's start off like
Speaker 1: we always do, with the parable. There's a grandfather who's
Speaker 1: talking to his grandson. He says, in life, there are
Speaker 1: two wolves inside of us that are always at battle.
Speaker 1: One is a good wolf, which represents things like kindness
Speaker 1: and bravery, love, and the other is a bad wolf,
Speaker 1: which represents things like greed, hatred, fear. And the grandson
Speaker 1: stops and he thinks about it for a second, and
Speaker 1: he looks up at his grandfather and he says, well, grandfather,
Speaker 1: which one wins? And the grandfather says, the one you feed.
Speaker 1: So I'd like to start off by asking you what
Speaker 1: that parable means to you in your life and in
Speaker 1: the work that you do. Yeah. Wow, you know, I
Speaker 1: forgot that you started that parable. And now I wish
Speaker 1: I could go back and listen to the last answer
Speaker 1: I had, because I've man, I have no idea where
Speaker 1: I went with it over, neither does anyone else at
Speaker 1: this point. Probably you can. I wouldn't worry about being
Speaker 1: original at this point. Yeah, No, I just hopefully I
Speaker 1: don't duplicate myself. I mean where I'm at today. When
Speaker 1: I'm hearing that, it actually makes me think of, uh what.
Speaker 1: In Buddhism they teach quite a bit about the seeds
Speaker 1: that we have laying dormant in our store consciousness and
Speaker 1: how we water those seeds, you know, whether they are
Speaker 1: positive seeds or negative seeds, and we water them by
Speaker 1: what we do in our lives. Um. You know what
Speaker 1: we feed ourselves. And I'm not speaking just food wise,
Speaker 1: but you know, what do we feed ourselves? What are
Speaker 1: we reading, what are we doing? How are we showing
Speaker 1: up in the world? Are we being of service in
Speaker 1: some way? Are we taking care of ourselves? So that's
Speaker 1: that's kind of what it represents to me today with
Speaker 1: where I'm at, you know, the the seeds in my
Speaker 1: consciousness and how am I watering them or which ones
Speaker 1: in my watering? Um. But I really dig that parable, man,
Speaker 1: I remember, I really like that the first time you
Speaker 1: guys shared it too. That's that's a great, great way
Speaker 1: to start this segment. Yeah, I think you know, I
Speaker 1: know you have a history of drug abuse, UM addiction
Speaker 1: like myself, and that parable I think has a particular
Speaker 1: significance for some people. Um, even I think it resonates
Speaker 1: for everybody. But for me, boy, that bad wolf was
Speaker 1: so you know, out of control. Well fed, we shall say, right.
Speaker 1: And you know, the interesting thing is, though though it
Speaker 1: is in my experience not is well fed today, it's
Speaker 1: still there, you know, Like I, I I know that it
Speaker 1: rears its big bad wolf head every now and then,
Speaker 1: and uh, sometimes I give it more attention than I should,
Speaker 1: but you know, that's life, and it's a practice, and
Speaker 1: uh and I just show up each day trying to
Speaker 1: nurture the good wolf and and feed and care for
Speaker 1: that one. Yeah. That's one of the things I really
Speaker 1: like about the parable is that it indicates like this
Speaker 1: is the human condition. We all have this, and it
Speaker 1: indicates that it's not like a foregone conclusion. This is
Speaker 1: a close battle, right There's it's it goes on. It's
Speaker 1: not like we're gonna, you know, do enough meditation retreats
Speaker 1: where suddenly you know, there's no longer that that dual
Speaker 1: nature where we no longer have to uh folk guss
Speaker 1: on on being the best version of ourselves. I think
Speaker 1: that that never ends. And that's part of what I
Speaker 1: like about it is because I think it really normalizes
Speaker 1: the fact that none of us are perfect and none
Speaker 1: of us are going to be perfect. Oh man, absolutely.
Speaker 1: I even love when some Buddhist teachers will share stories
Speaker 1: about the Buddha after he had attained enlightenment, and you
Speaker 1: know how you'd have gatherings and Mara would still come around,
Speaker 1: and sometimes his attendance would kind of freak out like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, Buddha mars here, and he would welcome
Speaker 1: our in and serve mar te, you know, and uh,
Speaker 1: And that I think is a wonderful example of how
Speaker 1: even the Buddha, you know, after attaining enlightenment still had
Speaker 1: his wolf so to speak. You know, So it doesn't
Speaker 1: matter who you are. It is part of the human condition,
Speaker 1: bottom line. So yeah, it's just what do you know,
Speaker 1: how do we handle it? What do we do when
Speaker 1: that wolf does show up? So that that is a
Speaker 1: nice byproduct of practices like meditation or other spiritual endeavors.
Speaker 1: Um they help us, you know, to show up more
Speaker 1: consciously for these things and work with them a bit
Speaker 1: more skillfully. Though, like I already said, though, it doesn't
Speaker 1: mean we're perfect, you know, using myself an example, so
Speaker 1: far from it. But it's it's a real effort that
Speaker 1: I that I make, and I'm grateful for that. Well,
Speaker 1: myself included on that far from perfect. So let's start
Speaker 1: off with the title of the book, which is Everything Mind.
Speaker 1: What does that mean? So everything Mind really it considers
Speaker 1: everything in our lives is part of the spiritual path,
Speaker 1: and that includes, kind of, like we've already been alluding
Speaker 1: to in a way, our our triumphs and our heartbreaks,
Speaker 1: the joys and suffering the light in the dark. I've
Speaker 1: personally come to realize that these are all equally suitable
Speaker 1: teachers in lessons in life. And you know, part of
Speaker 1: the reason I really liked Everything Mine for the title
Speaker 1: is because something I knowed that happens for a lot
Speaker 1: of people when it comes to the spiritual path, and
Speaker 1: myself very much included in the early stages of my
Speaker 1: own journey, was that um I would and others tend
Speaker 1: to compartmentalize spirituality is something that's really only happening when
Speaker 1: we're formally practicing, you know, whether we're sitting in meditation
Speaker 1: or attending a yoga class, working with a certain mantra,
Speaker 1: you know, things of that nature. But in my experience,
Speaker 1: what I've come to recognize as a spirituality, or even better,
Speaker 1: its spirit um abuse all of life, in every minute,
Speaker 1: whether I am consciously aware of it in that moment
Speaker 1: or not, it's it is all that is happening. It's,
Speaker 1: like I said, it abuse all things. So taking that
Speaker 1: into consideration, UM, another reason I liked Everything Mine for
Speaker 1: the title was against something I fell victim to. Something
Speaker 1: I see there's tend to struggle with is that they
Speaker 1: predominantly will associate spirituality with just the positive kind of
Speaker 1: love and light aspects of their lives and their experiences.
Speaker 1: And of course that is absolutely a part of it.
Speaker 1: But obviously life isn't always positive and happy. So if
Speaker 1: we're looking to be inclusive in our practice, I think
Speaker 1: it's of paramount importance that we honor the dark side,
Speaker 1: the the bad wolf, and in a way where we
Speaker 1: acknowledge its presence and work with it. UM. I know
Speaker 1: our our last episode that we've done together, we titled
Speaker 1: that Nomad No Lotus, which was based on a saying
Speaker 1: that the Zen Buddhist teacher tickno Han uses quite often,
Speaker 1: and I love that because to me, that means, you know,
Speaker 1: our best selves can grow out of the most difficult
Speaker 1: times are pain and are suffering. And so as we
Speaker 1: begin to live our lives from this place of everything
Speaker 1: my and which again is a place that brings everything
Speaker 1: to our spiritual paths, we can learn to compassionately work
Speaker 1: with and through the things that life hands us, you know,
Speaker 1: good or bad, and even get to the point where
Speaker 1: we can do so with an open and courageous heart
Speaker 1: and mind. Um. So you know that's that's a few
Speaker 1: thoughts on everything mind. I like in the introduction, which
Speaker 1: was written by Ken Wilberg, he talks about everything mind
Speaker 1: is being another way of saying Buddha mind or christ consciousness,
Speaker 1: universal mind, brahmin, you know something like that. So I
Speaker 1: dug that as well. So I kind of like that
Speaker 1: people can take it and put their own spin on it,
Speaker 1: which is similar to INTI Spiritual. It is my first book,
Speaker 1: you know it. It's kind of what does it mean
Speaker 1: to you? You know, take it and run with it.
Speaker 1: I have my own ideas, but um, I really like
Speaker 1: when people kind of take something and make it their own.
Speaker 1: There was a lot in what you just said there.
Speaker 1: I think the part about compartmentalizing is is so true,
Speaker 1: not just in spirituality, but I think in all aspects
Speaker 1: of my life. I ink that for me, as I
Speaker 1: became more comfortable being who I was wherever I was,
Speaker 1: and bringing all the parts of me to wherever I was,
Speaker 1: the better off I was. Um, and that always takes courage.
Speaker 1: I mean it happened today. I was I was sitting
Speaker 1: somewhere and somebody came by and was like, oh, you know,
Speaker 1: what are you reading? And I had your book? And
Speaker 1: I was like, how do I show him this book?
Speaker 1: You know, it's like it's just some passers by, it's
Speaker 1: a place I eat all the time. And I thought,
Speaker 1: why not? You know, I'm just showing the book. And
Speaker 1: he's like, oh, man, I really like that. And you know,
Speaker 1: so it's it's just taking that little bit of chance
Speaker 1: to be open about who we are. And and I
Speaker 1: love the way that you blend music. You know, you're
Speaker 1: into hardcore, you're into hip hop, you're into punk rock. Um,
Speaker 1: how do you blend that with what we traditionally think
Speaker 1: of as incense and sandals and prayer beads? Right? That
Speaker 1: all comes together right in the center of your life. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's all. It's all part like I said, everything mine. Man,
Speaker 1: it's all part of the spirit virtual path, and and
Speaker 1: that's really wonderful, uh for me at least, and and
Speaker 1: many others I talked to kind of approach life with
Speaker 1: this open attitude, because when we're not closing ourselves off
Speaker 1: spiritually speaking, you know, when we're not only having these
Speaker 1: designated times of formal practice, which those times are important.
Speaker 1: I don't mean to take anything away from them, but
Speaker 1: when we get up from the cushion and we are
Speaker 1: bringing that practice with us out into the world rather
Speaker 1: than leaving it there, then we're making ourselves available to
Speaker 1: spiritual experiences at any time, you know. And I'm using
Speaker 1: the word spiritual, but we could replace that with life experiences, um,
Speaker 1: but experiencing them in a way where we're fully there
Speaker 1: for them in the moment. And as I write about
Speaker 1: in this book into my past last book, you know,
Speaker 1: I've had those experiences that Slayer concerts and motor Head
Speaker 1: concerts and Naughty by Nature serves and skateboarding nature yeah,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, Naughty by Nature, that's right. Yeah. Man. So
Speaker 1: it's like, because I'm open to it, so you never
Speaker 1: know when when something's gonna hit and and it's it's
Speaker 1: just uh, I I find it a much a much
Speaker 1: more exciting, uh and skillful kind of way of living.
Speaker 1: We're going to circle back to some of those topics
Speaker 1: in a minute. I want to ask you a question
Speaker 1: because this comes up to me a lot, and it's
Speaker 1: it's sort of the logical brain working right, and that's
Speaker 1: usually not the best way to try and approach spiritual items.
Speaker 1: But every once in a while when I hear this,
Speaker 1: it's all connect like, it's all God, right, God, let's
Speaker 1: just use the word God because it's easier, you know,
Speaker 1: God abuse everything is everywhere. Then there's a part of
Speaker 1: me that occasionally goes, well, if it's everywhere, it's kind
Speaker 1: of like, well, then nothing is more special than anything else. Um,
Speaker 1: it's sort of like if everything is a high priority,
Speaker 1: nothing's a high priority. And uh, I just sometimes get
Speaker 1: my brain kind of gets hung up on that idea
Speaker 1: and I just think it's a I just brain it
Speaker 1: up as one of those areas that I kind of
Speaker 1: wander into intellectually where I go, well, if that's the case,
Speaker 1: is anything is any of its sacred? If it's all sacred, see,
Speaker 1: and to me, it's all sacred and none of it is,
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's kind of like like tickna Han
Speaker 1: again going back down would say, you know, no coming,
Speaker 1: no going, no birth, no death. Um, it's it all
Speaker 1: is and it all isn't. And that's what I appreciate
Speaker 1: from Nagarjana, you know, the the old Buddhist philosopher, when
Speaker 1: he brought to the table the two truths, the truth
Speaker 1: of the absolute and the truth of the relative. And
Speaker 1: the relative is this form level where we're doing, you know,
Speaker 1: this intellectual thinking and uh, and it's life, it's life stuff,
Speaker 1: and it's just as true as the ultimate truth. That's
Speaker 1: why they're two truths. But understanding that that's only half
Speaker 1: of the truth and the other half of the truth
Speaker 1: where we know in Buddhism they don't usually use the
Speaker 1: word god, some some Buddhists do, but it um you know,
Speaker 1: they might say Buddha mind, or we could call it dharma,
Speaker 1: kaiah whatever everything. Everything might write exactly right right, but
Speaker 1: underlying this form experiences relative experience. Is this all uh?
Speaker 1: It just such nous, This isness, this everything mind you
Speaker 1: know it really but but again it's something you can't intellectualize.
Speaker 1: That's the thing. Like they say, um nirvana. For example,
Speaker 1: a lot of teachers will save it as the extinction
Speaker 1: of all notions about Nirvana. You can't talk about it,
Speaker 1: you can't think about it, because once you do, you're
Speaker 1: bringing your own lens into it, and that's not what
Speaker 1: it is, you know, it's the polar opposite of that.
Speaker 1: So it's it's so tricky to talk about these things,
Speaker 1: you know, when really it comes down to the experience,
Speaker 1: having your own direct experience. And that's why I write
Speaker 1: in this book about cultivating you know, what I would
Speaker 1: call the path of direct experience, but then even going
Speaker 1: beyond that, because an experience is still just an experience,
Speaker 1: but it goes even deeper than that, you know, it
Speaker 1: is really quite the rabbit hole once you step foot
Speaker 1: into this path. But finding some humor and lightheartedness as well,
Speaker 1: especially because I do the same thing. Man, I will
Speaker 1: intellectualize stuff all day long. And uh and that's actually
Speaker 1: for me, been part of my problem, you know. I
Speaker 1: I have had a very hard time throughout the years
Speaker 1: making that journey, you know, from the head down to
Speaker 1: the heart and combining the two into a place of
Speaker 1: heart mind. Um. And on a good day, man, sometimes
Speaker 1: I'm kind of there and that's great, But on other
Speaker 1: days I will still be reading things and intellectualizing it.
Speaker 1: And even though I've had some experiences which for me
Speaker 1: have kind of shown a truth deeper than we can
Speaker 1: really put into words, I still, you know, I I
Speaker 1: still wanted to make sense. It's that that's the nature
Speaker 1: of of being human. You know, the mind wants to understand.
Speaker 1: We want to figure things out. And there's nothing wrong
Speaker 1: with that, you know, It's just it is what it is.
Speaker 1: And now back to the interview with Chris Grosso. I've
Speaker 1: been interested lately in the concept that comes from Hinduism
Speaker 1: that there are four different ways that we sort of
Speaker 1: approach everything mind or enlightenment or non dual consciousness or
Speaker 1: the Godhead, and and it recognizes some people do it
Speaker 1: through more of a devotional method, some people do it
Speaker 1: through more of an intellectual method, some people do it
Speaker 1: through more of a service method, right, you know. And
Speaker 1: I find that very comforting to me that there's different
Speaker 1: ways to get here. And so instead of always trying
Speaker 1: to fight my intellectualism, at least allow it to be
Speaker 1: part of the situation for me where I know it
Speaker 1: can be limiting, but I think it's been better for
Speaker 1: me to recognize that's a valid way to approach truth
Speaker 1: and that I shouldn't, you know, try and force it
Speaker 1: aside so so much sometimes. But like you, I think,
Speaker 1: and it may be the drug addict in me, right
Speaker 1: that like I want the experience. I want to feel it,
Speaker 1: damn it, right, Like you know, I want to feel it.
Speaker 1: I love that you brought that up, because I wrote
Speaker 1: a little about that in my first book. But you know,
Speaker 1: people are often surprised. They're like, you know, do do yoga?
Speaker 1: And it's like, well, what kind of yoga? You know?
Speaker 1: Like you just said, there's there's these four branches and
Speaker 1: many more if we're going to go deep into pot
Speaker 1: angel these teachings. But um no, I don't. I personally
Speaker 1: don't do the posting yoga Austina yoga. I don't have
Speaker 1: any problem with it. I just don't do it. But
Speaker 1: I very much would consider myself a bak De practitioner,
Speaker 1: which is, you know, the devotional path as well as
Speaker 1: the the yana yogi, which is the intellectual um part.
Speaker 1: And you know, but again that goes back to the
Speaker 1: intellect versus the heart and trying to find the balance
Speaker 1: between the two. But yeah, man, there's so many different
Speaker 1: paths and practices and wisdom traditions and you know, on
Speaker 1: and on. But that's the beautiful thing is that there
Speaker 1: is a way for literally anyone to find their own
Speaker 1: quote unquote spiritual way in this world. I in the introduction,
Speaker 1: I read about a friend of mine, Chris Tedman, who's
Speaker 1: an atheist, and he wrote a really wonderful book called Faitheist,
Speaker 1: in which he talks about the importance in his life
Speaker 1: of finding a way to work with people, you know
Speaker 1: that do have a faith, regardless of what it is,
Speaker 1: but meeting them in a place where they can come
Speaker 1: together and serve humanity for the greater good. And to me,
Speaker 1: I know Chris wouldn't call that spiritual, but to me,
Speaker 1: just you know, because that's the context in which I
Speaker 1: kind of view life from, I would very much call
Speaker 1: that spiritual. And and I think that's wonderful. Man Like
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't think you necessarily have to, um,
Speaker 1: you know, have a a formal god or religious practice
Speaker 1: in order to be spiritual. I mean, I that's stating
Speaker 1: the obvious, because religion and spirituality are two different things.
Speaker 1: But I really do believe people can cultivate a spiritual lifestyle.
Speaker 1: Um by first exploring what their passions are, you know,
Speaker 1: and then building it from there. I think that's a
Speaker 1: great way of going about it, especially with a lot
Speaker 1: of the younger people I talk with who are skeptical
Speaker 1: and have cynicism towards spirituality. And I think that that
Speaker 1: is a very healthy thing to a certain extent um
Speaker 1: to be cynical, but still to keep an open mind.
Speaker 1: And so the of younger people, if I'm talking into college,
Speaker 1: for example, that's maybe a way I would approach it
Speaker 1: with them, you know, asking where where is your passion,
Speaker 1: you know, and say, for example, it's an art student. Awesome,
Speaker 1: you know, there's so much spirituality and art, you know,
Speaker 1: just being there completely present while you're creating. You know,
Speaker 1: this this beautiful piece of whatever form of media, you know,
Speaker 1: art media. It is again to me, that's way spiritual.
Speaker 1: And it doesn't mean you have Christianna Dason in the background,
Speaker 1: though you very much could. Um or you could have
Speaker 1: on hey man, yes you could, and you might in
Speaker 1: my case there's a good chance. But actually it's funny.
Speaker 1: I was my daughter and not to get away off topic,
Speaker 1: but we were, um, my wife and daughter and I
Speaker 1: were looking at this YouTube video the other day of
Speaker 1: I think it was like Star Wars. A house that
Speaker 1: had decorated uh their lights to coincide with Star Wars,
Speaker 1: and I saw someone also did like a Christmas Slayer thing,
Speaker 1: and so I put that on and it was my
Speaker 1: year old stepdaughter's first introduction to Slayer. As she was
Speaker 1: so unimpressed. It was hilarious, but you know, what are
Speaker 1: you gonna do? And then she wanted to hear there's
Speaker 1: this acapella band, Pentatonics, and she's like, let's watch that one,
Speaker 1: and she got all happy. So, you know, whatever it
Speaker 1: is to each their own. So that leads into uh,
Speaker 1: not the story about your your daughter, but the part
Speaker 1: before that leads into um, this idea of spiritual practice.
Speaker 1: And in your book there's a lot of different spiritual practices,
Speaker 1: and frankly, there's lots of spiritual practices littered all over
Speaker 1: the place everywhere you turn these days, lots of different approaches.
Speaker 1: One of the things that I've noticed in people that
Speaker 1: I work with and doing coaching in different things is
Speaker 1: that when there is ambiguity and there's not a clear
Speaker 1: plan or a clear path of action, it's very easy
Speaker 1: to not do anything sure and so I'm curious, from
Speaker 1: your perspective, how do people who to engage in spiritual practice,
Speaker 1: you know, want to do some of these things? How
Speaker 1: do they map out a plan for themselves? How do
Speaker 1: they come up with an approach? Um? When? Where? How?
Speaker 1: How much? How often? How long? I mean, I think
Speaker 1: these are all really valid questions for the people who
Speaker 1: are doing things like listening to podcasts and going well,
Speaker 1: I'd like to be more spiritual, but what does that mean?
Speaker 1: I and I couldn't agree more with you. So the
Speaker 1: the important thing for me in the way I write
Speaker 1: and and teaches that I'm even though I know we're
Speaker 1: talking a lot about Buddhism. Um, I'm not Buddhist, I'm
Speaker 1: not Hindu, I'm not Christian. You know. I have a
Speaker 1: great reverence for these wonderful wisdom traditions, but um, I
Speaker 1: don't classify myself as any of them. I have my practice,
Speaker 1: and I draw from these traditions. I mean, if anything
Speaker 1: you could call me, I suppose interfaith. But I've never
Speaker 1: been a big fan of labels. Um, So for me,
Speaker 1: not being a teacher of a specific lineage, it is
Speaker 1: important for me to lay out a bunch of different
Speaker 1: options for people, because I know a lot of people
Speaker 1: that read my books are newer to the spiritual path.
Speaker 1: Some of them I've been pleasantly surprised. During there's fifties, sixties,
Speaker 1: seventies that came up with the Ramdas counterculture movement, you know,
Speaker 1: Alan Watts and all of those guys, and they're they're
Speaker 1: resonating with this material, and that's been awesome. But a
Speaker 1: lot of the people are newer, and what I find
Speaker 1: with a lot of people I talked to is they've
Speaker 1: been very turned off to the idea of spiritual practice
Speaker 1: because they have this misperception that it's dogmatic, it's rigid,
Speaker 1: it's you know, I have to do this, this and
Speaker 1: this now. If you're if you're going to embark on
Speaker 1: a certain lineage. Absolutely that might be the case, and
Speaker 1: I don't think there's anything wrong with that whatsoever. I
Speaker 1: have wonderful friends that do very much call themselves Buddhist
Speaker 1: or Christian or Hindu, you know, and that's great, that's
Speaker 1: what works for them, and I deeply honor that um.
Speaker 1: But for me, what's important is really too allow these
Speaker 1: people that are newer to have a feeling of freedom
Speaker 1: as they are exploring, you know, because I know for me,
Speaker 1: when I was younger, being told what to do, oh,
Speaker 1: you know, that was the worst thing in the world.
Speaker 1: So I want these people to feel open and free.
Speaker 1: And I I know that will often hear uh teachers
Speaker 1: of older generations or even maybe younger generations to say that,
Speaker 1: you know, you don't want to hang out and quote
Speaker 1: unquote the spiritual buffet line. And to a certain extent,
Speaker 1: I absolutely agree. However, I think in the very beginning
Speaker 1: that is a valuable place to to spend a little
Speaker 1: time in because if you're just going to jump in,
Speaker 1: you know, head over heels into one specific tradition without
Speaker 1: exploring the others, you need to get a little taste.
Speaker 1: How do you know for sure that's the one. I mean,
Speaker 1: maybe okay, you've like you've had this really deep vision
Speaker 1: or calling and and right, if that's the case, go
Speaker 1: for it. But if it's not, then spend a little
Speaker 1: I'm exploring, you know, get to know what each tradition
Speaker 1: is teaching, what they're not teaching, get to know their practices,
Speaker 1: and and then from there, I think you can make
Speaker 1: a more educated decision to move forward. So but to
Speaker 1: go back, you know, all the way back to your question.
Speaker 1: It's hard for me to kind of answer that since
Speaker 1: that's again going back to I'm not a teacher of
Speaker 1: a specific lineage. So what I can say for myself,
Speaker 1: the most important thing in my life and has been
Speaker 1: for many years, is having a dedicated meditation practice, something
Speaker 1: that I do almost every day. There are certain days
Speaker 1: where I just can't get to it, if I'm traveling
Speaker 1: or whatnot. But that's part of the not being rigid,
Speaker 1: you know, is understanding that some days things life happens
Speaker 1: and you just can't get to it. But on those days,
Speaker 1: I can use what's called matra practice, which is the
Speaker 1: repetition of either a sacred name or a sacred mantro
Speaker 1: phrase you know that means something to whether it's taken
Speaker 1: from Buddhism or Christianity or whatever the case. You know,
Speaker 1: So there's always a way to practice every single day.
Speaker 1: And that's part of what I was saying earlier, where
Speaker 1: if we have this formal practice, that's great and that's
Speaker 1: very important, but it shouldn't for us stop right there
Speaker 1: when we get up from the kushion or leave the
Speaker 1: yoga studio. You know, to me, if I'm washing my hands,
Speaker 1: and I am aware that right now I'm washing my hands,
Speaker 1: that is just is sacred a form of meditation that's
Speaker 1: formally sitting down because I'm there in that moment with
Speaker 1: that experience, and that to me is meditation. So that's
Speaker 1: the one thing I would really recommend anyone, regardless of
Speaker 1: what tradition you are or are not interested in, is
Speaker 1: to take up a meditation practice. And there is so
Speaker 1: many different kinds of meditation, you know, there's no shortage
Speaker 1: of of ways to find ones that will work for
Speaker 1: you in your time. There's walking meditations, guided meditations, breath meditations.
Speaker 1: I mean, just google meditation, you know, or hit YouTube
Speaker 1: up and you'll have no shortage of options to choose from.
Speaker 1: So I do have a daily meditation practice. It's something
Speaker 1: I finally managed to build after a couple of decades
Speaker 1: of being intermittent. But I find that like, well, what
Speaker 1: am I gonna do? Am I gonna do a breath meditation?
Speaker 1: Am I going to do a sound meditation? Am I
Speaker 1: going to you know, do ah guided meditation? I find
Speaker 1: myself almost sometimes getting um hung up on what the
Speaker 1: practice could be because there's so many different meditation practices.
Speaker 1: And so for myself, I've been working on saying, Okay,
Speaker 1: well for this week, I'm going to do this kind
Speaker 1: of thing every day, so I at least know, because
Speaker 1: mid meditation, if I'm not enjoying it, I'll be like, oh,
Speaker 1: I should probably be doing X, Y or Z instead.
Speaker 1: And I've tried to get away from that and and
Speaker 1: just stick to all right, this week, I'm gonna I'm
Speaker 1: gonna see what happens, what the experiences of doing something
Speaker 1: like transcendental meditation for a week versus versus mindfulness or
Speaker 1: and that helps me to be a little bit less
Speaker 1: all over the place. I think that's awesome. And that's
Speaker 1: the way to keep it fresh too, because I know
Speaker 1: a lot of people. You know, meditation can get boring.
Speaker 1: If we're going to be honest about it. It can
Speaker 1: be ecstatic, it can be boring. I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: you'll run the gamut of emotions. But I think that's
Speaker 1: a really wonderful way of keeping it fresh is doing that.
Speaker 1: I know when I go to the gym, I I
Speaker 1: a while back, I found myself getting really bored. So
Speaker 1: I started reading a bit more on new routines and
Speaker 1: new regiments, and I found something that really works for me,
Speaker 1: where each week, you know it's upper body is the
Speaker 1: focus or lower body though you're still bringing each portion
Speaker 1: in every week, but you know there's there's a schedule
Speaker 1: each week. You know, in each week, it it mixes
Speaker 1: up a bit. And I made sure to you know,
Speaker 1: incorporate different exercises for same body parts in that way.
Speaker 1: It keeps it interesting and it you know, it makes
Speaker 1: it easier for me to get mysel back to the gym.
Speaker 1: And and I can see how that would be very
Speaker 1: much the same for meditation as well. So I think
Speaker 1: that's great man. Yeah, I think it's trying to find
Speaker 1: that balance between a routine that becomes a boring you know,
Speaker 1: like just drudge your way through it because you have
Speaker 1: to thing, and the other side, which is that there's
Speaker 1: no real clear plan because like I said, for myself
Speaker 1: and for lots of people that I work with, that's
Speaker 1: the biggest thing is we don't we're not consistent with
Speaker 1: what we do because we don't have a consistent plan.
Speaker 1: We anytime there's ambiguity, I think procrastination wins. And so yeah,
Speaker 1: I do the same thing exercise wise about every six months.
Speaker 1: I'm like all right, I've kind of had it to this,
Speaker 1: like and I find something new to do, but I
Speaker 1: try and find like, Okay, that's what I'm gonna do,
Speaker 1: and and I'm going to do it according to X,
Speaker 1: Y or Z plan or have that, And that's I
Speaker 1: don't think everybody's that way, but I certainly am, like
Speaker 1: I need some degree of here's what it is each
Speaker 1: day because if I have to figure out what I'm
Speaker 1: gonna do at the gym in addition to get myself
Speaker 1: to the gym, boy, it's easy to there's a lot
Speaker 1: of ways that it's a lot of places to end
Speaker 1: up that aren't the gym on that journey, absolutely right, right,
Speaker 1: And so we're gonna take this back to spirituality. That's
Speaker 1: why to me, I find that in you know, it's
Speaker 1: it's been over twelve years since I stopped foot onto
Speaker 1: the path that um. In those twelve years, I still
Speaker 1: have not felt compelled to pick like one specific lineage,
Speaker 1: one wisdom tradition and stick with that because I I
Speaker 1: just find a lot of enjoyment in the teachings from
Speaker 1: all of these various traditions. And it's not that I
Speaker 1: think they're all saying the same thing. Because they're obviously not.
Speaker 1: There are certainly plenty of places where they intersect, and
Speaker 1: that's always a neat dichotomy to to see happening. But uh,
Speaker 1: that too keeps spirituality fresh for me. And then not
Speaker 1: just keeping it from the teachings from the traditions, but
Speaker 1: you know, again bringing it out into the world when
Speaker 1: I step my skateboard or at a Slayer concert or wherever,
Speaker 1: you know, like at uh, playing my little Ponies with
Speaker 1: my daughter, you know, whatever I'm doing, like just being
Speaker 1: there present with it, and yeah, man, it makes life
Speaker 1: really really pretty incredible. We would be remiss to not
Speaker 1: talk about your motor Head story, particularly with Lemmies passing. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, it's it's just timely on a bunch of ways,
Speaker 1: and it leads us into the topic of interdependence, which
Speaker 1: was one of the big ones that I wanted to
Speaker 1: hit uh in this interview. So can you tell us
Speaker 1: the Motorhead Lemmy story and spiritual learning that that you
Speaker 1: got from that? For sure? Man, Yeah, it is very timely,
Speaker 1: you know, of course, rest in peace to Lemmy. Uh,
Speaker 1: a metal god among God's for sure. Um. I was
Speaker 1: very heartbroken to hear the news of his passing yesterday
Speaker 1: that I can't say completely shocked because his health has
Speaker 1: been deteriorating in recent years. But yeah, man, so we
Speaker 1: got to see them. It's actually I've only seen motor
Speaker 1: Head twice and this was the second time I got
Speaker 1: to see them a few years ago. And it was
Speaker 1: really great because I had a photo pass because I
Speaker 1: was covering it from my website. And for those who
Speaker 1: don't know, photo pass means I get to go literally
Speaker 1: right up to the front of the stage. And this
Speaker 1: is at a huge event, so you know, it's really
Speaker 1: a well done production. And so there I am, you know,
Speaker 1: and the lights go out and Motorhead chance start and
Speaker 1: next thing I know, you know, the lights come on
Speaker 1: and literally like a foot in front of me at
Speaker 1: the age there's let me. I you know, I positioned
Speaker 1: myself amongst there was a bunch of other photographers, but
Speaker 1: I positioned myself very early, like right in front of
Speaker 1: his microphone, and so you know, I was I was
Speaker 1: pretty star struck, man, Like that doesn't happen to me often,
Speaker 1: but this has let me and uh a big deal
Speaker 1: for me and a big influence musically. So it was
Speaker 1: like a minute, two minutes something like that into their
Speaker 1: song and he's playing this really beautiful Rick and Bocker
Speaker 1: bass And I actually posted the picture on my Facebook
Speaker 1: page yesterday that from this portion of the book I
Speaker 1: was writing about, and it was this really beautiful wooden
Speaker 1: uh leaf in my it was a version of the
Speaker 1: Rick and Bocker I've never seen him play before, and
Speaker 1: so you know, they're they're they're tearing it up as
Speaker 1: motor had does, and um, I don't know, man, My
Speaker 1: thoughts just naturally started gravitating towards the Buddhist teachings of
Speaker 1: interdependence what tech Nahan would call inter being. And I
Speaker 1: started to think about this base, and then I started
Speaker 1: to look deeper at it, as technology would teach us
Speaker 1: to do, and I started thinking about the fact that,
Speaker 1: you know, that base came from a tree, and then
Speaker 1: it just kind of went off from there to thinking
Speaker 1: about how the tree had to have sunshine to nourish
Speaker 1: it to grow, and there had to be rain in
Speaker 1: order to help the tree grow, and all of these
Speaker 1: things that had to enter be with one another to
Speaker 1: create that the tree which would then become the base.
Speaker 1: But then, you know, my mind started also thinking about
Speaker 1: how not only that, but then there had to be
Speaker 1: these craftsmen at the Rick and Bocker factory that created
Speaker 1: the base you know, from hand. And uh, you know,
Speaker 1: their parents had to meet in the first place and
Speaker 1: and uh consummate and um, you know in order to
Speaker 1: have them, and then their parents had to have them,
Speaker 1: and Letty's parents had to have him. And just literally
Speaker 1: this whole inter being of life, how all things are
Speaker 1: inter being at all times, both on the relative form
Speaker 1: level and the absolute you know, it's it's all all
Speaker 1: happening together at the same time. It's just beautiful dance
Speaker 1: of the Hinters would call it the leila, you know,
Speaker 1: the dance of life all unfolding before us. But it really,
Speaker 1: I know it's kind of cliche to say, you know,
Speaker 1: it's all one man and urnamastay, but but there's a
Speaker 1: really deep truth to the fact that it is all one.
Speaker 1: It really is all interconnected, you know, at these sub
Speaker 1: atomic levels. Um, it's it's like a quantum soup, you know,
Speaker 1: from which all these form or relative things arise and
Speaker 1: they're all inter being. You know, think about our bodies
Speaker 1: within these kind of skin bags, as Alan Watts would
Speaker 1: call them. You know, there's all these organs that are
Speaker 1: inter being. There's atoms and molecules and cells that all
Speaker 1: these things that are just inter being with one another
Speaker 1: in order for our bodies to function on a daily basis.
Speaker 1: And then we're showing up and we're doing whatever we're
Speaker 1: doing in the world, and it's having its effect on others.
Speaker 1: And it's just really quite a dance, man, quite a dance.
Speaker 1: And and that's how I find I live life today
Speaker 1: is looking more deeply and and having these experiences. Again,
Speaker 1: like I said, if I'm at a motoried concert or
Speaker 1: on my skateboard or I also write at one point
Speaker 1: in the book about how I love to go out running,
Speaker 1: and I'll often look at houses, you know, and and
Speaker 1: traditionally we'll see a house or a building and see
Speaker 1: it as this kind of solid entity. But if we
Speaker 1: look deeper, you know, the house is a compositive wood
Speaker 1: and nails and appliances and you know, utensils and and
Speaker 1: all of these things that had to come together in
Speaker 1: order to make a house or a table or a computer.
Speaker 1: You know, all of these things have to interbee in
Speaker 1: order to make these things. Um an acorn tree, you know,
Speaker 1: like a uh an acorn had to fall into or
Speaker 1: be planted in the earth, and there had to be rain,
Speaker 1: and you know, and and it all had to come
Speaker 1: together to create this tree. It's just that's life. It's
Speaker 1: all into being. And so when we start to really
Speaker 1: contemplate that more and have that experience and look deeper,
Speaker 1: this separate sense of self that most of us have
Speaker 1: begins to dissipate a bit. And in my experience, the
Speaker 1: greatest source of my suffering was that, you know, I
Speaker 1: believed I was this isolated, separate self, cut off from
Speaker 1: the rest of the world. Um, you know, very lonely,
Speaker 1: very scared, very afraid. But the more I have these
Speaker 1: experiences and this deeper understanding of inter being, life really
Speaker 1: is a much more peaceful, flowing, and friendly experience. It
Speaker 1: is far from perfect, and you know, there are terrible
Speaker 1: things that happen on a daily basis, not to me specifically,
Speaker 1: but I mean, I'm not saying that there it stops.
Speaker 1: The rape and the terrorism and the all of the
Speaker 1: terrible things that do happen on an hourly or a
Speaker 1: minute by minute basis in this world. It's all still there.
Speaker 1: But there are also these other beautiful things that are happening.
Speaker 1: And so that tends to be a bit more of
Speaker 1: my experience, and uh, it helps me to be a
Speaker 1: better person in this world and offer a better version
Speaker 1: of myself to others. Yeah, I love that tracing something back,
Speaker 1: like looking at something and thinking of everything that had
Speaker 1: to happen for that thing to come. And if we'd
Speaker 1: spend an hour talking about everything that had to happen,
Speaker 1: what we can spend far longer than that for you
Speaker 1: and I to have this converse sation and for someone
Speaker 1: out there in the world to be listening to it
Speaker 1: right now. And I talk on the show a lot
Speaker 1: about negative thought patterns and rumination, and one of the
Speaker 1: things that that I do is I do these sort
Speaker 1: of concentration exercises that give my brain something else to
Speaker 1: do besides spiral and their normal morose, oppressive paths. And
Speaker 1: and that's another great one that I found, is to
Speaker 1: do that sort of inner being exercise of pick something
Speaker 1: around me and start thinking about, Okay, what all had
Speaker 1: to have happened. Um, it gives my brain something to
Speaker 1: do besides churn in negativity. It's interesting enough that it
Speaker 1: keeps my brain hooked, which is I think is one
Speaker 1: of the really important ways to stop negative thought patterns.
Speaker 1: Is you've got to give your brain something to do,
Speaker 1: and at the same time, there's a spiritual truth behind
Speaker 1: it that that comes through. And so that's another one
Speaker 1: of the things that I really like to do. I
Speaker 1: don't do it as often, but it's a really powerful
Speaker 1: way for me to get out of whatever spot I'm
Speaker 1: stuck in mentally. Oh man, that's great. Yeah, I I
Speaker 1: completely agree. And that's why even things like mantras as well.
Speaker 1: They that's often referred to as mind protection because isn't
Speaker 1: it crazy, man, that our thoughts every day? I forgot
Speaker 1: the statistics you might even know, but it's insane, Like
Speaker 1: we have all these thousands of thoughts every day, tens
Speaker 1: of thousands of thoughts, and it's something like not even
Speaker 1: one or two percent of them are different than what
Speaker 1: we were thinking yesterday, and the majority of those thoughts
Speaker 1: are rooted in negativity. Isn't that crazy? Man? And we'd
Speaker 1: never ever get tired of it. We might say we're
Speaker 1: fed up with this or that, but if we really were,
Speaker 1: you know, why aren't we doing something about it? So
Speaker 1: I think it's because it's hard to do, um sure.
Speaker 1: I mean, like mantras are a good one, I think,
Speaker 1: depending on your brain type. For me, if I'm really
Speaker 1: rooted in something in some sort of rumination, it's like
Speaker 1: I think of the mantra like four times, and then
Speaker 1: I'm right back to what I was doing, and then
Speaker 1: I'm back to them. I mean, it's it's not sticky
Speaker 1: enough sometimes, And that's why I find these sort of
Speaker 1: positive concentration games like the Alphabet Gratitude game where you
Speaker 1: try and go through the alphabet and think of something
Speaker 1: you're grateful four that starts with A, or you think
Speaker 1: of a song that starts with A that you love,
Speaker 1: or those things are sticky enough from my brain and
Speaker 1: there's enough like positive emotion in them usually that if
Speaker 1: I just keep sticking with that for a little while,
Speaker 1: I find myself on the other side for a little
Speaker 1: while anyway, right, and then it's that then it's none
Speaker 1: of these things are like you know, It's like it's
Speaker 1: funny with all this spiritual stuff. I've been thinking a
Speaker 1: lot lately about how none of it is ever done.
Speaker 1: It's like going to the gym analogy is really good
Speaker 1: because I cannot go to the gym now and have
Speaker 1: that be good for three years, right, Like I just
Speaker 1: gotta keep going right, you know, my teeth, I gotta
Speaker 1: keep brushing them every day for them to stay clean.
Speaker 1: I think that I'm starting to accept it more and
Speaker 1: not fight it. That that these these spiritual practices, these
Speaker 1: little things I do to keep my brain in my
Speaker 1: heart and my emotions in the right place. I just
Speaker 1: they're they're a persistent part of what I need to
Speaker 1: do to be happy in the world or content. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I And I love that you said that because
Speaker 1: it comes back to me to my passion in the
Speaker 1: way I teach is finding what does work for you
Speaker 1: and in a way that you will be able to
Speaker 1: stick with it, you know, whether we're talking about the
Speaker 1: gym or spiritual practice. Like That's why it's so important
Speaker 1: for me and the way I write you to offer
Speaker 1: a bunch of different things, because I want people to
Speaker 1: be aware of what's out there, you know, be able
Speaker 1: to get a little sample, a little taste of this
Speaker 1: practice or that practice, because absolutely man mantra might be
Speaker 1: it for one person, it might be like the train
Speaker 1: that they can ride all the way home, whereas for
Speaker 1: someone else, you know, they'll do it for like ten seconds.
Speaker 1: They're like, Nope, not for me. And that's perfectly fine. Man.
Speaker 1: That's why it's so great that there's so many different
Speaker 1: means and methods in the world for every thing, you know,
Speaker 1: for for life. It's it's it's it's really great, um
Speaker 1: that we have all these wonderful options at our fingertips.
Speaker 1: And I do want to say, I love that alphabet
Speaker 1: gratitude game, and I find that, uh, that's a great
Speaker 1: one for me. I often will try to use that
Speaker 1: when I'm going to bed. Not only does it help
Speaker 1: me fall asleep, but helps me to fall asleep on
Speaker 1: a positive note, because man, what better time for our
Speaker 1: mind to really get worked up in the negative when
Speaker 1: it's bedtime, you know. So yeah, I lovely well, we
Speaker 1: are at the end of our time, even though I've
Speaker 1: got about fifteen more questions. But I'm gonna I'm gonna
Speaker 1: end it with a quote that you had in the
Speaker 1: book that's not yours, but you you you talk about it,
Speaker 1: and I just thought it was such a great quote.
Speaker 1: And I'm not gonna be able to pronounce the guy's
Speaker 1: name correctly, but it says, if self centeredness produced happiness,
Speaker 1: we'd all be enlightened by now by Jagged Toco rempichet. Yes,
Speaker 1: actually that's very close, right, absolutely. Yeah, You've got a
Speaker 1: lot of stuff written around that, um, but that quote
Speaker 1: really stuck out to me, like, WHOA, that's that's true
Speaker 1: because we're pretty good at that, aren't we. And here
Speaker 1: we are. I think I've got that down. Well, I'll
Speaker 1: put links to the book in the show notes. It
Speaker 1: was a very enjoyable read. Like you said, I think
Speaker 1: it's it's a very accessible, real book about spirituality. And
Speaker 1: that was the that is the one. I guess one
Speaker 1: more thing because I was gonna I often ask people
Speaker 1: like what does spirituality mean? And it's something I think
Speaker 1: about because I think it can be a turn off
Speaker 1: of a word for so many people. And but you've
Speaker 1: got you had a definition that I thought was really good.
Speaker 1: And maybe we'll we'll end with this, which is spirituality
Speaker 1: is an inner journey, one that takes us beneath the
Speaker 1: surface of who and what we think we are and
Speaker 1: guides each of us home to our truest self. And
Speaker 1: that's just my two cents, but most importantly, find out
Speaker 1: what it is for you. YEA. Why What I love
Speaker 1: about that is there's just a I think it's completely true.
Speaker 1: B It leaves all kinds of lattitude, And it's all
Speaker 1: about you. What is your true self? Your spiritual search.
Speaker 1: We may look completely different than somebody else's. It doesn't
Speaker 1: have to be church, it doesn't have to be Buddhism,
Speaker 1: it does. I mean, it's your what's what's your true self? About?
Speaker 1: Uncovering that? It's just about for me, spirituality is just
Speaker 1: about going deeper inside who inside of ourselves instead of
Speaker 1: always outside. But I just love that that phrase you
Speaker 1: had there. Thanks man, I'm glad you brought that in
Speaker 1: because yeah, that's I think that actually sums up like
Speaker 1: the overview of the book quite nicely. So cool man. Well,
Speaker 1: thanks so much for coming on, Chris. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1: I always love talking with you. We could probably have another,
Speaker 1: like I said, a few hours of this, but we'll
Speaker 1: be since since the other Chris is not with us
Speaker 1: this time, he would be given me the cut it
Speaker 1: sign here, So well, Eric, thank you man. It it's
Speaker 1: it's really a pleasure. I enjoy the show. I am
Speaker 1: a fan, so it means a lot to be back
Speaker 1: on and uh, thank you for your time and having
Speaker 1: me as a guest. Greatly appreciated. My pleasure take care, Chris,
Speaker 1: you too. Bye. You can learn more about this podcast
Speaker 1: and Chris Grosso at one you Feed, dot Net, slash
Speaker 1: Chris and the number two. That's Chris too. Thanks,