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Speaker 1: Hey guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 2: Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election,

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Speaker 2: So if that is something that's important to you, please

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Speaker 1: dot com. Good morning, everybody, Happy Monday. We have an

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Speaker 1: amazing show for everybody today. What do we have, Crystal?

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Speaker 2: Indeed, we do a lot of very interesting things happening

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Speaker 2: this week. Marjorie Taylor Green has announced she is resigning,

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Speaker 2: so we will watch her announcement video and give our

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Speaker 2: thoughts on what is going on there. I actually don't

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Speaker 2: really have any theories, so can talk about that fall

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Speaker 2: out from the Zoron Trump meeting. Excited to hear Sager's

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Speaker 2: take on that since we haven't heard from him yet.

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Speaker 2: Goiations on a Ukraine, potential Ukraine Russia peace deal continue

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Speaker 2: breaking developments there ceasefire has been broken by Israel in

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Speaker 2: both Gaza and Lebanon. Jeremy Scahill is going to join

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Speaker 2: us with the latest. Mike Huckabee met with a trader

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Speaker 2: who has threatened to nuke the United States, who thinks

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Speaker 2: we should be nuked if we don't do what Israel wants.

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Speaker 2: You would think that I'm exaggerating. I'm literally quoting from

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Speaker 2: what he himself had to say. So certainly we're taking

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Speaker 2: a look at that. And a bunch of MAGA accounts

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Speaker 2: actually accidentally revealed on Twitter as foreigners.

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Speaker 3: That's a fun one, right there.

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Speaker 1: Can't wait for that. That's the Thanksgiving special that we needed.

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Speaker 1: to a friend. It is very very helpful. Also, everybody

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Speaker 1: wish Crystal a very happy birthday. Happy Verda rystial. Thank

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Speaker 1: you all right, So let's let's get into it. Marjorie

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Speaker 1: Taylor Green she resigned from Congress in an absolutely shocking move.

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Speaker 1: She released a near ten minute long video explaining it.

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Speaker 1: We've cut some of the most important points. Let's take a.

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Speaker 4: Listen, and I do not want my sweet district to

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Speaker 4: have to endure a hurtful and hateful primary against me

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Speaker 4: by the President that we all fought for only to

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Speaker 4: fight and win my election, while Republicans will likely lose

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Speaker 4: the midterms and in turn be expected to defend the

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Speaker 4: President against impeachment after he hatefully dumped tens of millions

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Speaker 4: of dollars against me and tried to destroy me.

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Speaker 3: It's all so absurd.

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Speaker 4: And completely unseerious. I refuse to be a battered wife

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Speaker 4: hoping it all goes away and gets better. If I

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Speaker 4: am cast aside by the President and the MAGA political

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Speaker 4: machine and replaced by Neo Khn's big Pharma, big tech

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Speaker 4: military industrial war complex, foreign leaders, and the elite donor

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Speaker 4: class that can never ever relate to real Americans, then

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Speaker 4: many common Americans have been cast aside and replaced as well.

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Speaker 4: There is no plan to save the world or a

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Speaker 4: four D chess game being played when common American people

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Speaker 4: realize and understand that the political industrial complex of both

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Speaker 4: parties is ripping this country apart, that not one elected

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Speaker 4: leader like me is able to stop Washington's machine from

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Speaker 4: gradually destroying our country, and instead the reality is that

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Speaker 4: they common Americans, the people, possess the real power over Washington.

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Speaker 4: Then I'll be here.

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Speaker 3: By their side to rebuild it.

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Speaker 4: I'll be resigning from office, with my last day being

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Speaker 4: January fifth, twenty twenty six, and I look forward to

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Speaker 4: seeing many of you again sometime in the future.

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Speaker 1: I'm totally shocking move Marjori Taylor Green there saying she

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Speaker 1: doesn't want to endure her district have to endure a

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Speaker 1: painful primary challenge race. I guess it opens up a

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Speaker 1: whole bunch of questions. Immediately. Is she running for president

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Speaker 1: in twenty twenty four? Is she just fed up with

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Speaker 1: the system. There was one theory that she wanted her pension,

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Speaker 1: But immediately resigning means that they will immediately trim the

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Speaker 1: very very narrow margin for Republicans actually in the House

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Speaker 1: of Representative something they could barely afford to lose a

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Speaker 1: vote on. But I think more importantly, it's like a

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Speaker 1: direction of the party conversation. There was some immediate talk

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Speaker 1: of her possibly running for president. She's emphatically denying a

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Speaker 1: two please we can go and put this up here

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Speaker 1: on the screen. Time magazine wrote a piece saying that

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Speaker 1: she potentially could be running for president. She says Time

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Speaker 1: Magazine claimed sources told her I'm running means this is

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Speaker 1: a complete lie and they made it up because they

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Speaker 1: can't even quote the name of the people. I am

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Speaker 1: not running for president. I've never said I wanted to.

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Speaker 1: I've only laughed about it when anyone would mention it.

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Speaker 1: If you fell for this headline, you're being lulled every

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Speaker 1: day into the psychosist by the political industrial complex. She says.

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Speaker 1: You know, why would I even want to run for

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Speaker 1: president and sell out two big donors. I am personally thinking,

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Speaker 1: you know, there's a lot of secondary motivation conversation. Maybe

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Speaker 1: she's just fed up. I really think that she. You know,

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Speaker 1: Glenn Greenwild has described her as like a civilian, you know,

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Speaker 1: the ideal like from the Founder's Times of the idea

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Speaker 1: of like a civilian who's just interested in Congress, wants

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Speaker 1: to runts to run for office to try and effect change.

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Speaker 1: I think she saw the system from the inside. And

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Speaker 1: I think she also was a genuine believer in Trump

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Speaker 1: and so getting screwed here by Trump on the party line,

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Speaker 1: and also standing up for a lot of things she

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Speaker 1: believed in Epstein and others. She just said, Look, I'm

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Speaker 1: very rich, she's filthy rich, she likes where she lives,

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Speaker 1: she has, you know, family and all that. Why would

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Speaker 1: I continue to embrace this charade? But I do think

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Speaker 1: it's a loss. I think, especially because of having some

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Speaker 1: dissonant voices. I'm not so sure she would have lost

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Speaker 1: her primary. Thomas Massey seems to be hanging on very simply.

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Speaker 1: But you know, who knows, who knows? She certainly could have.

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Speaker 1: It's definitely gonna be a little bit more competitive, and

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Speaker 1: she certainly would have at least had a fight on

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Speaker 1: her hands. So I don't know, I mean, shocking, it's

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Speaker 1: definitely shocking. She's decided up and out to resign one

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Speaker 1: of the most prominent voices in all of MAGA for

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Speaker 1: the last what six seven years.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's unfortunate because, like you said, I mean,

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Speaker 2: there's so few voices in the Republican Party who are

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Speaker 2: willing to go against the Green who are willing to

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Speaker 2: speak down against Trump, who are willing to buck him

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Speaker 2: on literally anything. And so it's a shame that, right

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Speaker 2: as she's getting very interesting and kind of at the

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Speaker 2: peak of her power in a sense, certainly in terms

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Speaker 2: of the attention economy, but also in terms of just

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Speaker 2: you know that they have an extremely narrow margin in

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Speaker 2: the House. So anything she and Thomas Massey team up

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Speaker 2: together to do, they only need to get a couple

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Speaker 2: more Republican on board to thwart the majority. So she

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Speaker 2: has a lot of power there that she obviously won't

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Speaker 2: have when she resigns from office. So I really think

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Speaker 2: it's a shame actually that she's decided to make this move.

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Speaker 3: Look, I have no.

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Speaker 2: Idea whether she does have future ambitions, you know, to

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Speaker 2: run for Senate, to run for president, whatever that may

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Speaker 2: look like. I do think that it's worth contemplating this

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Speaker 2: moment in the Republican Party, where Trump is increasingly a

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Speaker 2: lame duck. He's at one of the weakest points in

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Speaker 2: his power. His approval ratings are terrible on the economy,

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Speaker 2: which has always been his flagship issue. He just was

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Speaker 2: delivered a you know, a massive electoral rebuke. I think

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Speaker 2: she's right that the mid terms are going to be

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Speaker 2: extremely ugly for the Republicans. So, you know, certainly she

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Speaker 2: and others are thinking about what's going to come after Trump,

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Speaker 2: and perhaps there's some positioning of herself for that, although

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Speaker 2: again you would think that being in the House would

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Speaker 2: set her up better for some future political ambitions than

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Speaker 2: deciding to resign, which normally, you know, as it wears on,

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Speaker 2: people don't really look kindly at that. They feel like, okay, well,

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Speaker 2: at the moment when the district actually needed you and

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Speaker 2: we needed your voice, you decided to step away. I

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Speaker 2: will say, though, too, that the political landscape is very

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Speaker 2: different now than it used to be, where she could

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Speaker 2: be still incredibly prominent and powerful just by being you know,

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Speaker 2: on the podcast circuit and on the mainstream media circuit.

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Speaker 2: And so perhaps she's thinking that too, that she'll be

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Speaker 2: a little bit more are a little bit more free

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Speaker 2: to just say what she wants and not have to

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Speaker 2: take difficult votes, and just position herself however she wants

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Speaker 2: to for the future. And then Sager, there's also the

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Speaker 2: possibility that you mentioned, which is just she is feels

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Speaker 2: betrayed by a president that she supported extremely loyally, like

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Speaker 2: went to the mat for and when you know aggressive ways,

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Speaker 2: and says she spent millions of her own dollars to

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Speaker 2: help support brought her into politics. There's no way she'd

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Speaker 2: be a member of Congress without Trump and the MAGA movement.

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Speaker 2: And then he turns around and calls her a trader.

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Speaker 2: So I'm sure she feels disillusioned by that. She's also

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Speaker 2: talked about threats on her life, the type of death

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Speaker 2: threats that she's been receiving, and so it may well

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Speaker 2: just be that she's like, screw it, I don't really

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Speaker 2: want to do this anymore, and I don't want to

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Speaker 2: have to go through what may have been a very

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Speaker 2: tough primary if Trump, you know, really did back some

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Speaker 2: candidate against her in a district that is a very

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Speaker 2: red and Republican district. So she just may have said,

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Speaker 2: you know what, life is too short. I don't feel

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Speaker 2: like dealing with this crab.

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Speaker 1: We will find out I think the answer to all

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Speaker 1: of these questions in about six months to seven months.

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Speaker 1: So if she's fully on the podcast circuit, I'm like, okay,

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Speaker 1: then clearly you know she's angling for something. She's venting

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Speaker 1: some of her frustration. We may just never hear from

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Speaker 1: her again. I think it's very possible she's just like,

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Speaker 1: forget it, I'm done. I gave it my shot. I

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Speaker 1: really believed in this movement. I spent a lot of

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Speaker 1: my own money. I saw the beast from the inside,

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Speaker 1: and at the end of the day, you know, this

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Speaker 1: is not something that has any redemption value. I do

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Speaker 1: think it's very you know, it's sad for a couple

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Speaker 1: of reasons. First and foremost is you were at the

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Speaker 1: peak of your powers, not just rhetorically, but as I mentioned,

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Speaker 1: you had one of those stray votes. There's a reason

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Speaker 1: that the House margin it's so low that if you

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Speaker 1: actually take very hardline positions as you did on the

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Speaker 1: Epstein discharge as you saw, you only need four or

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Speaker 1: five Republicans to sign on and you can actually make

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Speaker 1: some things happen. In terms of your own district. You

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Speaker 1: were very much at the peak of your powers, can

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Speaker 1: make serious demands in terms of things that are coming

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Speaker 1: to you. Your ability to parlay this into media appearances.

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Speaker 1: I mean, being a member of the United State's House

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Speaker 1: of Representatives is always going to afford you opportunities not.

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Speaker 1: I guess the Steelman case for it is, now you

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Speaker 1: no longer have to take stupid votes. Now you have

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Speaker 1: no pressure from inside of the system. You have no

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Speaker 1: Mike Johnson threatening, let's say, to defund your district or

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Speaker 1: you know, you don't have no Trump who has to

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Speaker 1: You don't have to dedicate probably hours years of your

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Speaker 1: life to a primary challenge to a campaign. Campaigning is

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Speaker 1: difficult even in the very best of circumstances. A contested

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Speaker 1: campaign may have made that, you know, much more difficult.

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Speaker 1: We really don't know. But as I said, if she

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Speaker 1: continues to keep her voice out there, then I think

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Speaker 1: her calculus would have been being in the house was

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Speaker 1: a loss. I already have my established name now, you know,

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Speaker 1: potentially starting a super pac an organization, remaining involved in politics,

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Speaker 1: that's very much, I think a live issue. It's also

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Speaker 1: very possible that she just sails into the sunset. She says,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm a gazillionaire. I'm literally worth tens of

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Speaker 1: millions of dollars, and I own a lot of land

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Speaker 1: down in Georgia's what's not to live a full and

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Speaker 1: a good life.

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Speaker 2: Well, if she if she's thinking of doing the podcast circuit.

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Speaker 2: I do have one podcast to recommend.

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Speaker 3: We've been wanting.

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Speaker 1: While for months. Yeah, I mean, one of the most

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Speaker 1: diff her and Thomas Massey. I don't know what's going on.

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Speaker 1: If you're listening. I know there's a lot of people

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Speaker 1: on Capitol Hill who are listening. Make it happen, guys.

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Speaker 2: I don't love to speak with them, love to ask

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Speaker 2: these questions. Put these questions right too, or I mean,

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Speaker 2: one other possibility I'll hold out is which I think

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Speaker 2: has a good You know, this this does have some

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Speaker 2: logic to it, is that she was actually afraid of

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Speaker 2: a primary challenge and thought, with Trump putting his full

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Speaker 2: force behind someone, I think you have to be. I mean, Trump,

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Speaker 2: as much as he's in a weekend state, still has

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Speaker 2: so much pull with his own base, and you know,

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Speaker 2: we could pull that element. I don't remember what number

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Speaker 2: it is that lists all the Republicans who went against

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Speaker 2: Trump and then had to resign, and the logic for

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Speaker 2: all of them was basically the same, like I'm going

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Speaker 2: to lose, you know, and I would rather go on

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Speaker 2: my own terms. Trump has turned against me. He has

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Speaker 2: called me a trader. He is, you know, calling me

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Speaker 2: ugly names and saying I'm a rhino and all those

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Speaker 2: sorts of things. And so if I stick around, I'm

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Speaker 2: going to lose. I'd rather go out on my own terms.

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Speaker 2: And you know, if that's what she is thinking, it's

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Speaker 2: smart politically, if you want to continue to have a

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Speaker 2: voice and potential future political potential political future, it's smart

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Speaker 2: to go out before that primary challenge even really emerges,

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Speaker 2: because then it looks less like my hand was forced

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Speaker 2: because I was going to get my butt beat. It's

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Speaker 2: more like, Okay, well this is you know, this is

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Speaker 2: my moment. I'm taking the initiative, I'm doing this in

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Speaker 2: the way that I want to do it, and the

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Speaker 2: primary challenge is just sort of like purely speculative at

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Speaker 2: this point. But that does to me have a logic

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Speaker 2: to it. Again, especially since you look at the history

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Speaker 2: of all of these individuals who broke with Trump on

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Speaker 2: a variety of issues and end up either losing or

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Speaker 2: resigning and having to leave the party effectively.

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Speaker 1: So I will say, if you look at that list,

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Speaker 1: ten out of the eleven they were just neo coons.

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Speaker 1: And that's what that's why the Marjorie thing is so different.

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Speaker 1: Is she I mean she really was, Yes, but I.

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Speaker 2: Look as like Lindsey Graham as Bessie's of Trimune. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: like Trump, it doesn't there's no ideological tenor to it.

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Speaker 2: You're right that what's different about Marjorie Taylor Green is

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Speaker 2: the fact, like she was a true believer.

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Speaker 3: She comes directly out of this movement.

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Speaker 2: Most of those people, they were already members of Congress

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Speaker 2: or senators and then they either you know, tried in

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Speaker 2: some ways to accommodate themselves to the rise of Trump's

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Speaker 2: takeover of the party, or they you know, resisted it

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Speaker 2: the entire time, whether across the border, in certain important ways.

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Speaker 3: She is different in that way.

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Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, you know, Trump

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Speaker 2: still gets to say what mag is and he says,

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Speaker 2: Lindsay Graham is great, and he's going to do his

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Speaker 2: first fund raiser with him and Marco Rubus, the Secretary

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Speaker 2: of State, and you know she stood with the Epstein victims,

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Speaker 2: and so she's on the ounce.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Wow, you know, maybe it's just clarifying. Here's what Trump

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Speaker 1: had to say. A three guys, let's take a listen.

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Speaker 6: Are you willing to for deep combra Coleman Tanner Green,

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Speaker 6: don't forgetful us.

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Speaker 7: No, I just disagreed with her philosopher. She started backing

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Speaker 7: perhaps the worst Republican congressman in our history, you know,

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Speaker 7: stupid person he named Massy and I could go your

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Speaker 7: own way. And once I left her, she resigned because

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Speaker 7: he would have she would never have survived a primary.

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Speaker 7: But I think she's a nice person.

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Speaker 1: She's a nice person, but she never would have survived

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Speaker 1: a prime. Again, I mean, I just don't think so.

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Speaker 1: If you look at look look at Thomas. Massey's running

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Speaker 1: way ahead of all of his opponents. He has brought

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Speaker 1: in incredible amounts of small dollar donations from people who

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Speaker 1: appreciate him standing up. He also has survived multiple primary

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Speaker 1: challenges down there. Look, Georgia is different. I'm not going

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Speaker 1: to say that these are the same types of districts,

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Speaker 1: but you know, if you made it a district first

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Speaker 1: type of campaign and really made it about the issues,

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Speaker 1: maybe it would have worked. Again, I have no clue.

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Speaker 1: Trump is historically unpopular. He also has a lot of

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Speaker 1: Republicans who seem to be dissenting on the voter level,

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Speaker 1: not necessarily at the high level. So I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I mean, look, it's very possible. At the same time,

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Speaker 1: you know, with Trump. Just to underscore what you were

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Speaker 1: saying with Donald Trump and kind of his definition of MAGA,

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Speaker 1: let's put this up here on the screen. This was

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Speaker 1: a four. We can go ahead and look. You know,

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Speaker 1: this was his initial truth, much less nice than his

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Speaker 1: stated comments. Marjorie Trader brown because of plummeting poll numbers.

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Speaker 1: I don't know where the brown comes from and not

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Speaker 1: wanting to find it.

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Speaker 3: It's because grass, when it rots, turns brown.

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Speaker 1: Oh okay, that's wild. He's lost his touch, not wanting

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Speaker 1: to brown. Basic primary challenger with a strong Trump endorsement

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Speaker 1: has decided to call it quits. Her relationship with the

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Speaker 1: worst Republican Congressman in decades, Tom Massey of Kentucky, also

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Speaker 1: known as Rand Paul Junior because he votes against the

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Speaker 1: Republican Party, did not help her for some reason, primarily

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Speaker 1: that I refused to return her never ending Burrajja phone calls.

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Speaker 1: Marjorie went bad. Nevertheless, I always appreat Marjorie and thanker

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Speaker 1: for service to our country. President DJT, I mean, this

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Speaker 1: is where it just really you know, disgusts me. Is

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Speaker 1: Marjorie Trade. Marjorie Taylor Green is a trader. And meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: what we're gonna cover in our show later is your

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Speaker 1: administration literally hosted an actual trader at the US embassy

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Speaker 1: in Jerusalem, and you endorse and condone that meeting, A

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Speaker 1: real trader, a guy who sold secrets to Israel, and

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Speaker 1: you condone that meeting. Okay, so you know, let's let's

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Speaker 1: look up the definition of trader and of treason. By

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Speaker 1: the way, while we're at it's just repulse repulses me

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Speaker 1: on this issue, and it's one of those where look,

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Speaker 1: we'll see again how things will come together for the

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Speaker 1: Trump administration. They are all over the place. They're trying

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Speaker 1: to pursue this peace deal in Ukraine, which we're going

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Speaker 1: to talk about. It has a decent enough shot, it's maybe.

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Speaker 1: But also you know they're considering invading Venezuela potentially this

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Speaker 1: week sometime next week. You've got a coalition which seems,

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Speaker 1: in my opinion, in shambles. Here's Alex Jones, who I

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Speaker 1: would decide to say perhaps part of more of the

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Speaker 1: MAGA contingent, explaining why he may be breaking from Trumps soon.

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Speaker 6: Let's take a listen, and I'm just going to say

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Speaker 6: at point blank. I'm not a bandwagon person. I don't

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Speaker 6: pile along and other people are doing something. But I

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Speaker 6: know MTG. Well, she's a woman of incredible integrity, brought

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Speaker 6: up poor self made, very successful destruction company. And it

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Speaker 6: sounded to me like she was thrown in the towel

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Speaker 6: just because she can't be part of something that's quote

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Speaker 6: the lesser of two evils. And she's very popular in

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Speaker 6: her district. I'm not a person that is normally conflicted.

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Speaker 6: I think I have a lot of knowledge, a lot

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Speaker 6: of depth, a lot of sources, a lot of context,

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Speaker 6: and when I do get conflicted on something, I just

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Speaker 6: have to go to God with it and pray about it.

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Speaker 6: A lot. I am seriously inches away from not support and.

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Speaker 1: Trumpet one inches away from not supporting him anymore. So,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know. It's at the very least

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Speaker 1: you could say this. Maybe Alex is just reading the

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Speaker 1: tea leaves. You know, I don't know where his own.

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Speaker 1: You know, he's been all over the place, especially on

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Speaker 1: the Epstein issue. In my opinion, he's been missing in

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Speaker 1: action from a lot of that he's been. He has

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Speaker 1: called the Trump administration in Israel out and all of that,

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Speaker 1: So I'll give him credit. I guess where it is due.

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Speaker 1: But you know, if you look at the audience that

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Speaker 1: kype of contingent, I don't think it's a secret that

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Speaker 1: they have been extremely dissatisfied with the Trump administration. You've

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Speaker 1: got voices like Tim Dillon and others speaking a guy.

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Speaker 1: I saw Joe Rogan talking about the Joe the Thomas

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Speaker 1: Massey things. So it's clearer that you know, there's enough

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Speaker 1: of a demographic kind of swinging against a lot of

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Speaker 1: what was promised on the campaign trail. It's been a year, now.

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Speaker 1: What have you done for me lately? Is always the

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Speaker 1: prevailing segment in politics, and it doesn't look like there

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Speaker 1: are any major developments outside of Ukraine that could potentially

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Speaker 1: fulfill some of those, especially in the midst of Epstein.

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Speaker 1: And look, I mean, we have thirty days, so sometime

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Speaker 1: before Christmas we're all going to have a news cycle

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Speaker 1: about those files release, the amount of redactions expected are

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Speaker 1: going to be once, you know, which just don't really

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Speaker 1: reveal quite a lot. I'm happy to be wrong. I

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Speaker 1: would love to be wrong if they actually did fully

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Speaker 1: release it, but there's not a general expectation that that's

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Speaker 1: going to happen, and so yeah, I mean, if you

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Speaker 1: put some Venezuela war on top of all that, it's

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Speaker 1: not looking good. I don't think it's like I think that.

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Speaker 2: I think the twenty twenty five elections were a big

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Speaker 2: wake up call for people because when you were seeing

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Speaker 2: these special elections that were going shifting like fifteen points

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Speaker 2: towards Democrats, even twenty points towards Democrats, Like, all right,

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Speaker 2: but those are special elections. It's weird time They've got

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Speaker 2: this very high turnout voter base. When you saw the

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Speaker 2: slacking that Republicans took in state after state after state,

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Speaker 2: including like at the local level, like these you know,

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Speaker 2: right wing school board members got swept down of office

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Speaker 2: and just a real reckoning kind of across the board.

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Speaker 2: Then you have to grapple with, Okay, the poll numbers

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Speaker 2: aren't fake. There is a major backlash brewing here. Trump

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Speaker 2: is old and not at the top of his game

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Speaker 2: and seems more focused on his ballroom than really anything else.

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Speaker 2: American people are pissed about the state of the economy.

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Speaker 3: I think that that.

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Speaker 2: Was a real wake up call for a lot of Republicans,

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Speaker 2: and you know, people like Alex Jones, and because you

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Speaker 2: could have lived up to that moment in the you know, oh,

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Speaker 2: we just won this major election. We won this major mandate.

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Speaker 2: The American people are with us, the polls are wrong,

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Speaker 2: et cetera, and you just can't really deny that reality anymore.

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Speaker 2: So I think that's part of the you know, the

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Speaker 2: backdrop of what's going on here, both with Marjorie, with

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Speaker 2: Alex Jones, and you know why we're seeing more and

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Speaker 2: more dissatisfaction sort of vocally expressed from the coalition.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. I mean, look, the permission structure is

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Speaker 1: obvious from the twenty twenty five election. It's also I

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Speaker 1: think obvious in terms of just the truth, like the

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Speaker 1: actual deliverables from the administration so far, and we've got

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Speaker 1: even the signature achievement the ceasefire, right, probably their single

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Speaker 1: best foreign policy achievement. It's kind of falling apart right now, guys,

430
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:15,639
Speaker 1: which we can cover pretty soon in Israel, Like I

431
00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:18,120
Speaker 1: wouldn't be shocked if two three months from now we're

432
00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:20,919
Speaker 1: back to the full on war in Gaza. Not to

433
00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:23,119
Speaker 1: mention what's happening with Lebanon, I mean, you know, with

434
00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:26,159
Speaker 1: Bebe and his own political coalition problems. They have no

435
00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:29,159
Speaker 1: ability to tamp any of this stuff down. So I

436
00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:31,679
Speaker 1: don't know. I think that. I think at the end

437
00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:34,400
Speaker 1: of the day, her loss it tells us something I'm

438
00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:37,800
Speaker 1: just not entirely. Her resigning, it, yeah, tells us something.

439
00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:39,640
Speaker 1: I just don't know yet what it is. I hope

440
00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:41,920
Speaker 1: she wins. I really do. I think we need more

441
00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:42,640
Speaker 1: people like her.

442
00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:44,160
Speaker 3: It'd be interesting.

443
00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:46,960
Speaker 2: I do think it's a shame that she resigned, though,

444
00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:50,159
Speaker 2: you know, she was an important voice in there, and

445
00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:53,120
Speaker 2: I think even I saw Trump as planning of making

446
00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:55,960
Speaker 2: some announcement about healthcare and trying to do something about

447
00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:58,280
Speaker 2: healthcare premiums. We'll see what that amounts to, but I

448
00:21:58,280 --> 00:21:59,879
Speaker 2: think part of the reason he felt pressured to do

449
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:03,439
Speaker 2: that is because of her consistent advocacy in that direction.

450
00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:05,359
Speaker 2: I don't think it was the sole factor, but having

451
00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:08,520
Speaker 2: someone within the party who'd been a Maga loyalist and

452
00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:12,240
Speaker 2: a Trump loyalist specifically speaking out about the cost of healthcare,

453
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:14,800
Speaker 2: I think, you know, I do think that that mattered.

454
00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:16,360
Speaker 3: And the fact of the matter.

455
00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:19,040
Speaker 2: Is, as much as we would love to self aggrandize

456
00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:21,880
Speaker 2: about how important it is to be a podcaster, there's

457
00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:24,760
Speaker 2: nothing like having actual power within the system, you know,

458
00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:26,720
Speaker 2: in order to effectuate.

459
00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:29,440
Speaker 1: Change one undred percent. Yeah, you talked about healthcare. Epstein's

460
00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:31,399
Speaker 1: was dead without her. I really believe it's not just

461
00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:34,159
Speaker 1: Nassy she needed She led the charge, her and she

462
00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:37,280
Speaker 1: wrangled a few of the other votes. Her ability to

463
00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:39,119
Speaker 1: stand up to the White House and say absolutely not.

464
00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:41,320
Speaker 1: She did a lot of the media stuff, not just

465
00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:45,880
Speaker 1: on healthcare. She's remained steadfast on Israel. I actually think,

466
00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:47,840
Speaker 1: you know, that type of pressure was one of the

467
00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:50,800
Speaker 1: reasons why they did ultimately go with the ceasefire deal,

468
00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:53,000
Speaker 1: because they could see that some people like Marjorie and

469
00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:56,680
Speaker 1: others were beginning to really crack in the foundation. If

470
00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:59,159
Speaker 1: you think even Ukraine, I mean a lot, a lot

471
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:02,240
Speaker 1: of the signature foreign policy stuff that's been you know,

472
00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:05,120
Speaker 1: fights that's been happening behind the scenes. Marjorie Tilla Green

473
00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:07,000
Speaker 1: has been, in my opinion, you know, on the good

474
00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:09,359
Speaker 1: side of the issues and kind of leveraging her power

475
00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:12,160
Speaker 1: in her voice. So there, so losing it is it's

476
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:14,080
Speaker 1: going to be a tough, tough loss because at this

477
00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:17,120
Speaker 1: point it's just Thomas Massey Massy. You know, he's he's

478
00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:20,600
Speaker 1: his own person. And he's always he's he's not maga right,

479
00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:22,840
Speaker 1: He's he's really his own libertarian.

480
00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:26,600
Speaker 2: He's an ideological libertarian, relatively consistent and his viewpoint.

481
00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:28,040
Speaker 3: But that, yes, is different.

482
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:29,160
Speaker 1: Than there's no hate towards the guy.

483
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:29,479
Speaker 6: He is.

484
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:32,000
Speaker 1: He's always he's been exactly the same. I've been many

485
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:33,840
Speaker 1: times on the other side of the issue for him.

486
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:36,639
Speaker 1: But Marjorie, I mean for her, she had a real

487
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:39,639
Speaker 1: I think, credibility and a voice, and so her loss

488
00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:42,200
Speaker 1: is us. It's a It's a tough one, I think

489
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,360
Speaker 1: for the country and for uh, for the Republican Party,

490
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:46,760
Speaker 1: especially if you wanted to see a different direction. But

491
00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:48,960
Speaker 1: it is what it is. I guess that Donald Trump's

492
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:51,480
Speaker 1: party always has people need to reconcile themselves to that.

493
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:52,800
Speaker 1: Let's get to Zoran.

494
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:59,040
Speaker 2: So, as you guys almost certainly know Trump and zoron Mom,

495
00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:02,359
Speaker 2: Johnny had a big meeting at the White House last week.

496
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:04,440
Speaker 3: A lot has developed.

497
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:07,000
Speaker 2: Since then, A lot of fallouts went on meet the press,

498
00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:09,320
Speaker 2: but Casey missed some of the highlights. Let's take a

499
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:11,000
Speaker 2: look at a little bit of how that went.

500
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:14,680
Speaker 5: Look, I think that there are many things in our

501
00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:16,760
Speaker 5: city where we have to own the responsibility of it.

502
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 5: Things that existed long before the president was the president,

503
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:22,280
Speaker 5: and those are also part of the message of our

504
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:24,800
Speaker 5: campaign was to take on a broken politics of the past,

505
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:27,320
Speaker 5: and I ran against a number of candidates who represented

506
00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:29,880
Speaker 5: different versions of that past. And what we found time

507
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:32,439
Speaker 5: and again is that working people were left behind in

508
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:34,480
Speaker 5: the politics of our city. And what we're looking to

509
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:36,280
Speaker 5: do is put those people right back at the heart

510
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 5: of our politics so that we don't have a situation

511
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:41,760
Speaker 5: where we're in the wealthiest city in the history of

512
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,399
Speaker 5: the world and yet one in five can't even afford

513
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 5: two dollars and ninety cents for a metro card.

514
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:50,879
Speaker 8: You know, we had some interesting conversation and some of

515
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:53,439
Speaker 8: his ideas really have the same ideas that I have,

516
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:57,560
Speaker 8: but a big thing on cost. You know, the new

517
00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:01,240
Speaker 8: word is affordability. Another word is just groceries. It's sort

518
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,040
Speaker 8: of an old fashioned word, but it's it's very accurate.

519
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 8: We had discussions on something. I'm going to discuss what

520
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 8: they were, but that I feel very confident that he

521
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:13,560
Speaker 8: can do a very good job. I think I think

522
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:15,399
Speaker 8: he's going to be I think he is going to

523
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:19,480
Speaker 8: surprise some conservative people actually, and some very liberal people.

524
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 8: He won't surprise him because they already like him.

525
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 6: I might call him the president a fascist.

526
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:27,720
Speaker 9: And your answer was President Trump and I have clear

527
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:29,200
Speaker 9: aout our positions in our views.

528
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 6: Are you affirming that you think President Trump is a fascist?

529
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:34,119
Speaker 5: I've spoken about that.

530
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:39,120
Speaker 8: Okay, you just say, okay, it's easier. It's easier than

531
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 8: explaining a pedal.

532
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:43,240
Speaker 2: But I could not get over Like, every time I

533
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:45,760
Speaker 2: watch back this meeting, I just can't get over it.

534
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:46,280
Speaker 1: It's wild.

535
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:47,080
Speaker 10: Yeah.

536
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:49,240
Speaker 2: I mean we thought that he would be charm bizor on,

537
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,840
Speaker 2: but I could not have anticipated him being like, it's fine,

538
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:54,919
Speaker 2: you could call me fash, this is all good, Like

539
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 2: we're best buds now, it's cool.

540
00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 1: I think I think Trump is charmed by him. I

541
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,879
Speaker 1: also think it shows Trump doesn't care about the Republican Party.

542
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:06,159
Speaker 1: And I think because going into the midterms, the plan

543
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:08,240
Speaker 1: was to try to use Zorn was going to be

544
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 1: like the new Pelosi. They were going to put him

545
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:12,760
Speaker 1: in ads all across the Deep South. They're like, this

546
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:14,679
Speaker 1: is why you got to come out and vote for

547
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:17,479
Speaker 1: a Republican. You got to stop communism. They wanted him

548
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:20,240
Speaker 1: to be the ultimate boogeyman, and Trump is like, yeah, no,

549
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,440
Speaker 1: I'm actually good, you know, for the Trump administration. I

550
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 1: actually thought it was smart. You take the rising politician,

551
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:30,720
Speaker 1: you know, this new young voice on affordability. He's got

552
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:32,679
Speaker 1: this mandate at the end of the day, like you

553
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:36,800
Speaker 1: take somebody who you know, really understood the same forces

554
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:39,359
Speaker 1: that got Donald Trump elected, not just I'm talking about

555
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:41,399
Speaker 1: the issues, but also the way that you get elected.

556
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:45,000
Speaker 1: Being an insurgent taking over party, beating establishment, coming in,

557
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:51,119
Speaker 1: actually reinventing campaign machinery, creating an incredible amount of buzz.

558
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:54,720
Speaker 1: It's a brand. Trump always respects that the most, and

559
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 1: that's why I invited him, I think, and he wanted

560
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 1: this image to try and conflate the two of them

561
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:02,080
Speaker 1: as kind of again, some sort of party establishment. I

562
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:04,439
Speaker 1: also think it reveals a couple of things. Also, is

563
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:08,440
Speaker 1: that the establishment Democrats clearly have much less respect from

564
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:11,160
Speaker 1: Donald Trump than somebody like a Zoron Mom Donnie, because

565
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 1: Trump respects winners, and he also respects people who can

566
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:18,359
Speaker 1: reinvent something that is, you know, inside of his established system.

567
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:19,680
Speaker 1: This is New York City. It's one of the most

568
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:23,160
Speaker 1: machine political places in the entire world. So the fact

569
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:25,679
Speaker 1: that he prevailed is something that they had nothing but

570
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 1: a choice. That it also shows you for Trump is

571
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,760
Speaker 1: he's not wedded to party orthodoxy and he doesn't believe

572
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 1: a lot of this bs. I actually thought that the

573
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:36,240
Speaker 1: fascist line was it kind of revealed the veil of

574
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:40,120
Speaker 1: kabuki from a lot of things, like in terms of oh,

575
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:42,240
Speaker 1: yes we call each other fascists, Yes we call each

576
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 1: other communists. Whatever. It's all in good fun, and it's

577
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 1: all it's kind of like the Dick Cheney funeral in reverse,

578
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 1: where it's like, yeah, we all called him a war criminal,

579
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 1: but whatever. It's just about a big club, and I

580
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:56,199
Speaker 1: guess he's reinventing kind of what that club means for Zoron.

581
00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 1: I did. I mean, I don't know. I'm of two minds.

582
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:02,639
Speaker 1: I could. I've always thought that him picking a fight

583
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:06,159
Speaker 1: with Trump would be good to his political benefit. What

584
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:09,639
Speaker 1: I thought that that meeting showed me. And this is

585
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:11,880
Speaker 1: actually heartening because I think this is a good thing.

586
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:14,200
Speaker 1: I think Zorn actually cares about doing some of the

587
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 1: stuff that he ran on, which is awesome. Okay, because

588
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:19,639
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, if you get defunded

589
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:21,600
Speaker 1: by the FEDS and you just end up in all

590
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:24,880
Speaker 1: this brawl with Tom Homan Ice and all that. It's

591
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 1: not going to be you know, you're not building two

592
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 1: hundred thousand affordable housing units. It's just not going to happen.

593
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:32,240
Speaker 1: You're going to be focused on trash, your city services,

594
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:35,399
Speaker 1: your subway. You'd have huge problems New York State. And

595
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 1: he said, you know what, I got to swallow my pride.

596
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:41,240
Speaker 1: I got a schlep to the Oval. He didn't give

597
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 1: too much, he didn't pull a Gritch and Whitmer right like,

598
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,600
Speaker 1: he stood his ground. And you know, if you're a

599
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:48,480
Speaker 1: New York City voter, you know I was very cynical

600
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:51,280
Speaker 1: about Zoron's ability to deliver, just because I you know,

601
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 1: I kind of thought he was like a politician. You know,

602
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:54,520
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, these guy guys just

603
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:57,720
Speaker 1: mostly care about what they like getting elected. But I

604
00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 1: was like, oh, man, no, he actually like he wants

605
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 1: to do this stuff he ran on and this is reality.

606
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 1: Trump is the president. So you got to charm the president.

607
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 1: You need money or the very least, you got to

608
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 1: keep this bigot on. If you really want the subway,

609
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 1: if you want free subway, free buses, or two hundred

610
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 1: thousand housing units, hud Right, You're gonna have to work

611
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 1: massively with the Housing and Urban Development, you know, and

612
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 1: that agency. So I think that's what he wanted. And

613
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 1: so look, I don't know. Perhaps it's a vision, a

614
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:28,960
Speaker 1: new vision of leadership. It's the Shinebond model from a

615
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 1: lot of the left. And I respect the hell out

616
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:32,960
Speaker 1: of him for the way that he did it. I

617
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 1: really do.

618
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 2: Well, your point is an important one, which is, you know,

619
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 2: Trump was very obsequious, I mean, going out of his way,

620
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:42,320
Speaker 2: and that clip we played, we have a lot of

621
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 2: the same ideas.

622
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 3: You know.

623
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:45,640
Speaker 2: I think he's gonna I think he could make New

624
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 2: York great again. I thought the question he got about

625
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 2: would you feel safe living in New York City, He's like, absolutely,

626
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 2: no problem. Emily's question too about are you standing next

627
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 2: to jihadis? I mean, that was the one that was

628
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 2: really the most devastating to the Republican Party and especially

629
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:02,000
Speaker 2: at least Stephonic trying to run for governor in New York.

630
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:02,120
Speaker 3: Now.

631
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 2: I think she was going to get blown out anyway,

632
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:07,280
Speaker 2: but this certainly doesn't help her case because they were

633
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 2: very much trying to make him into this national boogeyman

634
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 2: that they could use in districts across the country. Trump

635
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:15,840
Speaker 2: totally took the air out of those tires. Now we

636
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 2: got to say, like, I think the confrontation may still

637
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 2: be brewing, right this is today, they had this chummy meeting.

638
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 2: Next week Trump could be pissed off at Zoron and

639
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 2: be sending in the ice agents and the CBP and

640
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 2: threatening their funding again. Like I think we probably will

641
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 2: see that eventually come to pass.

642
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 3: But you're right about Zoron.

643
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 2: You know, he I believe feels the weight of this

644
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 2: office and the weight of the movement that he represents.

645
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 2: He thinks very much about like the Sewer Socialists and

646
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:48,960
Speaker 2: the need to actually deliver, and he believes, I think

647
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 2: that his political project will live or die by whether

648
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 2: or not he's actually able to govern effectively. So just

649
00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 2: through this meeting already he's at least pushed off into

650
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 2: the future, you know, the mass invasion of federal agents

651
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:06,960
Speaker 2: into the city, which even just that, even if the

652
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 2: federal funding isn't threatened, then you're having to deal with that,

653
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 2: and that's what the news is about. And it's a

654
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 2: major problem, a major distraction from you trying to get

655
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 2: your agenda passed. So I think he feels that very heavily.

656
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:23,520
Speaker 2: And while Trump was being you know, was praising him

657
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:26,160
Speaker 2: and sort of contorting himself to be on zor On side,

658
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:28,959
Speaker 2: Zorin didn't give an inch in terms of what he

659
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 2: viewed he was not. He was very cordial to the president.

660
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 2: You know, we talked about how much he appreciated the meeting,

661
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:38,080
Speaker 2: how he appreciated the opportunity for a partnership, but he

662
00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 2: didn't bend on his principles, and I think that mattered

663
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 2: a lot in terms of how this was received after

664
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 2: the meeting. I thought there would be some left or

665
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 2: some liberal like upset. There was a little tiny bit

666
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:53,520
Speaker 2: of that, but mostly people were just impressed with how

667
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 2: he was able to handle himself and you know, this

668
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 2: sense of him coming into the meeting, taking control and

669
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 2: really sort of you know, getting out of Trump what

670
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 2: he wanted to get out of Trump. Zorin went on

671
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 2: with Kristen Walker meet the press yesterday and there's some

672
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:12,960
Speaker 2: interesting exchanges there, in particular about this that moment we

673
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 2: played where Trump's like, hey, go ahead and call me

674
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 2: a fascist. It's fine, Let's go ahead and take a

675
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 2: listen to how Zorn handled that interview.

676
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,960
Speaker 10: Mister Mayor elect, Just to be very clear, do you

677
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 10: think that President Trump is a fascist?

678
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 9: And after President Trump said that, I said, yes, and

679
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 9: so you do. And that's something that I've said in

680
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 9: the past I say today. And I think what I

681
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 9: appreciated about the conversation that I had with the President

682
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:36,920
Speaker 9: was that we were not shy about the places of

683
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 9: disagreement about the politics that has brought us to this moment,

684
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 9: and we also wanted to focus on what it could

685
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 9: look like to deliver on a shared analysis of an

686
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 9: affordability crisis for New Yorkers.

687
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, and Sager, throw this man off his game.

688
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:53,280
Speaker 1: I don't know. I will say internally it makes no sense, right,

689
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 1: because it's one of those days it's like, well, if

690
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 1: you think he's fascist, authoritarian, why would you meet with him?

691
00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 1: And he's like, well, why would you try to work

692
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:01,520
Speaker 1: together on some shared right? You know, that's literally the

693
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 1: opposite of the theory of any resistance. So, in my opinion's

694
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 1: kind of fake. But look, it would be fake and

695
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 1: it would also be weak if he backed down in

696
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 1: terms of what he said. I will just say again,

697
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 1: I mean what I am so impressed by is every

698
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:19,520
Speaker 1: Democrat in the country knows how to win right now.

699
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 1: It's easy. You don't have to do shit at this people.

700
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 1: At this time, people are mad at Trump. They will

701
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 1: never blame you. So you just stand up and you

702
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 1: say screw you Trump, and you want Trump to Look

703
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:32,920
Speaker 1: at what happened to Brandon Johnson. This guy was a

704
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 1: bum in the city of Chicago dead. Trump saved his ass.

705
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 1: Same with Pritzker. It's not like Pritzker was popular. This

706
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 1: is not just an American story. By the way, Uh

707
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 1: you know, I've shared some of my reporting here. The

708
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:47,120
Speaker 1: president of Columbia, he's afraid that they're going to lose

709
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:50,280
Speaker 1: the election. He is desperate to get sanctioned by Trump.

710
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 1: Trump bailed out Lula down in Brazil with those tariffs.

711
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:58,200
Speaker 1: He screwed the Bolsonaristos. Anywhere that Trump is seen as

712
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:02,520
Speaker 1: attacking you, it boost your popularity. You literally didn't have

713
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:04,760
Speaker 1: to do anything. It would be too Zon's benefit to

714
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 1: have mass ice raids like throughout the city. It would

715
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:09,840
Speaker 1: be to his benefit to get cut off because anyone

716
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 1: have to do. You literally don't have to do anything.

717
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:14,799
Speaker 1: You could just go on MSNBC all day long and

718
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:18,480
Speaker 1: be like, oh, as fast turn not do nothing. Every

719
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 1: single one of your voters will back you because they're

720
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 1: blamed Trump for not delivering on the promises. This time,

721
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:26,560
Speaker 1: I was like, man, wow, he actually cares. It's a

722
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 1: rare thing in politics. Okay, you know, I've very rarely

723
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 1: seen it.

724
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 2: I think the Claudia Scheinbaum model is actually the model

725
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 2: because she, you know, already had high popularity and she

726
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 2: has one of the highest approval ratings of any world

727
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 2: leader around the world, and the way she has handled

728
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:46,920
Speaker 2: Trump has not been to have this extremely confrontational approach.

729
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:49,640
Speaker 2: It is very reminiscent of what Zoren just pulled off

730
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:51,960
Speaker 2: in the Oval office of I'm going to stand firm,

731
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 2: I'm not going to get pushed around, but I'm also

732
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:56,799
Speaker 2: going to do a bit of a charm offensive, right,

733
00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:59,480
Speaker 2: I'm gonna, you know, play to his ego like this

734
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:04,279
Speaker 2: is very easy to manipulate, man. And so she, I think,

735
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:07,880
Speaker 2: like Zoron, really wants not just to have a decent

736
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:11,720
Speaker 2: political standing, she wants to actually deliver for the people

737
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:15,440
Speaker 2: of Mexico, and so far she's been effective in you know,

738
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:17,520
Speaker 2: being able to do that. And Trump came in and

739
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:19,200
Speaker 2: there was all sort of bluster about we're going to

740
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:21,279
Speaker 2: bomb Mexico and we're going to invade Mexico and all

741
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:23,480
Speaker 2: that stuff that has not happened.

742
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:24,400
Speaker 3: They have been.

743
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 2: Able to have a collaborative relationship and that has been

744
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:31,760
Speaker 2: effective for her both in terms of her political standing,

745
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:33,719
Speaker 2: but more importantly in terms of the goals that she

746
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 2: has as the president of Mexico. And so I actually

747
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:40,799
Speaker 2: think that that is probably the closest model you could

748
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 2: look at for the way that Zorn is approaching this

749
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:46,760
Speaker 2: relationship with the Trump White House, because, like you said,

750
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:49,840
Speaker 2: you have to deal in reality. He is the president.

751
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:53,239
Speaker 2: He has tremendous power. He can make your life incredibly

752
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 2: difficult and incredibly miserable and make it impossible for you

753
00:35:56,760 --> 00:36:00,360
Speaker 2: to be able to actually accomplish your governing goals. Just

754
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 2: in a sign, we could put B three up on

755
00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 2: the screen of how seemingly smitten Trump was. This meaning

756
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:09,880
Speaker 2: he posted he did a photo dump on the truth

757
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:13,480
Speaker 2: social of their photos in front of the FDR portrait.

758
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:16,239
Speaker 2: He even posted the one of Zoran just solo there

759
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:18,799
Speaker 2: in front of the FDR portrait. This one of them

760
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:23,319
Speaker 2: sharing a moment there, you know, outside. So you know,

761
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:26,880
Speaker 2: I think I think Trump was suitably impressed, and Trump

762
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:30,280
Speaker 2: like he's just can't resist the star power of Zoran

763
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:33,359
Speaker 2: And I think you're right, Saga that for Trump, this

764
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:36,719
Speaker 2: actually is a good look for him, like, you know,

765
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:40,759
Speaker 2: makes it seem he's makes him seem like he's also pragmatic,

766
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:43,880
Speaker 2: like he's not an ideologue. You know, he's sort of

767
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:47,360
Speaker 2: glomming onto the new hot thing who's put affordability at

768
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:49,719
Speaker 2: the center. He also wants to associate himself with that

769
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:53,120
Speaker 2: message of affordability. He wants to associate himself with the

770
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:57,320
Speaker 2: star outsider who's you know, coming at the establishment, et cetera.

771
00:36:57,680 --> 00:36:59,839
Speaker 2: I think he probably likes the idea that this kind

772
00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:03,520
Speaker 2: of needles Schumer and Jeffreys and the Democratic leadership as well,

773
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:05,399
Speaker 2: and he doesn't really give a shit about the fact

774
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:07,920
Speaker 2: that it's actually terrible for the Republican Party because at

775
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:10,360
Speaker 2: the end of the day, Trump is interested in what

776
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 2: serves Trump.

777
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:15,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, of course, look in all cases, everyone there benefited,

778
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:17,200
Speaker 1: which is why I thought it was kind of fascinating

779
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:19,839
Speaker 1: and potentially a new model for politics. I'm like, hey,

780
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:21,839
Speaker 1: you know, I would love to see more stuff like this.

781
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:23,920
Speaker 1: Let's go put B four up on the screen. Just

782
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:26,560
Speaker 1: give everybody. An example, this is a very noteworthy tweet

783
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:28,960
Speaker 1: only for you know, kind of insiders. But this is

784
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:32,080
Speaker 1: James Blair. Okay, James Blair is a very high level

785
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 1: White House official. He's the White House Deputy Chief of Staff,

786
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:38,000
Speaker 1: and he's a twenty twenty four political director for the

787
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:40,439
Speaker 1: Trump campaign. This guy is an office in the West Wing.

788
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:43,319
Speaker 1: And here he's quote tweeting a piece that says, mom,

789
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:45,719
Speaker 1: Donnie says here he and Trump's share a commitment to

790
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:48,880
Speaker 1: the affordability agenda. He says, yes. You know why, because

791
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:51,160
Speaker 1: they're not stupid. At the end of the day, they

792
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:53,799
Speaker 1: can look at poles, they can see exactly where the

793
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:55,960
Speaker 1: wind is blowing, and they see the problem that they

794
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:58,960
Speaker 1: continue to face on the economy. That's why Trump is

795
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:02,120
Speaker 1: going to come out with some new fangled healthcare plan.

796
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:06,240
Speaker 1: Which it's funny. For all the GOP talk of price controls,

797
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 1: the Trump plan as currently floated is basically telling healthcare

798
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:14,759
Speaker 1: companies you're not allowed to raise premiums. Basically is a

799
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:17,799
Speaker 1: price control, which I think is fine. Hey, I'm cool

800
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:19,640
Speaker 1: with it. But he basically is like, we're not going

801
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:21,520
Speaker 1: to subsize you anymore, and you're just not allowed to

802
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:24,440
Speaker 1: raise premiums at all. That's kind of where you know,

803
00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:27,239
Speaker 1: he has pushed the Republican Party, not just Storm by

804
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:30,240
Speaker 1: the way, we talked about MTG, others that are working

805
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:32,960
Speaker 1: inside of the system now currently to try and at

806
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 1: least address some of the anger or mitigate some of

807
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:39,400
Speaker 1: the pushback that will come next November in the upcoming

808
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:43,279
Speaker 1: midterm elections. They see this as a problem for them. So,

809
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:46,160
Speaker 1: you know, it is one where I really think it's

810
00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:50,360
Speaker 1: just big picture. Trump is smart at the end of

811
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:55,200
Speaker 1: the day, understands brand and understands the power of non

812
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 1: of people who can beat the establishment and people who

813
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:00,799
Speaker 1: have something different and interesting, and he says, you know what,

814
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 1: I want to connect myself to that. That's what he's

815
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:06,359
Speaker 1: been a political entrepreneur from the very beginning. Zorn. The

816
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:09,040
Speaker 1: smartest and easiest thing for him to do would have

817
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:11,000
Speaker 1: been to not go and to pick a fight for

818
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 1: the Trump administration. This was a gamble, and so you

819
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:15,799
Speaker 1: do have to give it to him. He didn't pull

820
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:18,920
Speaker 1: a Whitmer holding the folder in front of his face

821
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:21,399
Speaker 1: in the oval up right. That was disastrous. It looked

822
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:24,799
Speaker 1: horrible for her. It didn't pull a Whitmer. He and

823
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:27,959
Speaker 1: you know, again, maybe I'm just the only person who's

824
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:30,040
Speaker 1: shocked to see a guy who actually wants to do

825
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:30,520
Speaker 1: the stuff that.

826
00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:30,920
Speaker 3: He ran on.

827
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:33,000
Speaker 1: It's been a long time. I don't really see it

828
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:37,040
Speaker 1: all that often in politics, And so that's the only takeaway.

829
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:40,400
Speaker 1: You're like, clearly, only he actually cares, he wants to

830
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 1: get some stuff done. So New Yorkers, you know, I

831
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:45,800
Speaker 1: rescind my take. Maybe you actually will get what you

832
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:48,279
Speaker 1: voted for. I'm hoping for you, all right. You know,

833
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:50,839
Speaker 1: I walked two hundred thousand more affordable units in there.

834
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:52,719
Speaker 1: It'd be awesome to see it, really would, just because

835
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:55,520
Speaker 1: it's I mean, how many times have we seen this show? Right?

836
00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:57,719
Speaker 1: And you know we all know Spamberger, she's not going

837
00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:00,920
Speaker 1: to do a goddamn thing. Mikey, Cheryl, all these other people,

838
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:03,440
Speaker 1: they're just gonna stand. They're going to grandstand. They'll do

839
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 1: some things on the margins, but anything transferrem me, it's

840
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:08,759
Speaker 1: not gonna happen a lot of these Democrats. So for

841
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:11,640
Speaker 1: Zorn profts to the guy, Seriously, it took it took

842
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:12,799
Speaker 1: skill to navigate that.

843
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:15,560
Speaker 2: I think one other thing that I'll say, and then

844
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:17,279
Speaker 2: we can we can just briefly touch on a little

845
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 2: bit of the Republican reaction, but it also shows you

846
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:23,279
Speaker 2: the power of actually having an ideology that you're committed to,

847
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:27,640
Speaker 2: because you know, Zoron knows what he's about, right, Zoron

848
00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 2: knows what his goals are, he knows what he's about,

849
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:35,840
Speaker 2: and so when he goes his message of affordability and

850
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:38,840
Speaker 2: here's and just relentless focus on that and here's how

851
00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:42,319
Speaker 2: I'm going to make life livable for average people. I mean,

852
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:47,359
Speaker 2: that has completely reshaped the entire national conversation. You talk

853
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:49,920
Speaker 2: about Mikey, Cheryl and Abigail Spamberg. I mean, Cheryl in

854
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 2: particular really picked up on what Zoron was successful with

855
00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:57,719
Speaker 2: in New York and incorporated a lot of that language

856
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 2: into her campaign, including some specific propus is about freezing

857
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:05,320
Speaker 2: the utility rates in the state of New Jersey. Trump

858
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:09,160
Speaker 2: clearly also now he's he never talked really about he

859
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:11,839
Speaker 2: never used the word affordability. Now he is using that

860
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 2: and wanting to associate himself with that message. And that's why,

861
00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:19,200
Speaker 2: you know, so much of the conversation, the entire conversation

862
00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:23,320
Speaker 2: in that Oval Office presser is around Zoron's priorities, around

863
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:27,600
Speaker 2: his ideological ideology, around what he wants to accomplish, And

864
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 2: so I think it does show you the power of

865
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:32,920
Speaker 2: when you actually believe in something and when that something

866
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:35,320
Speaker 2: happens to dovetail with the interest of the American people.

867
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:36,600
Speaker 3: I mean, it is just an.

868
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:40,720
Speaker 2: Extraordinarily powerful force. It is obviously such a powerful force

869
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:43,080
Speaker 2: that you can go from one percent in the polls

870
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:46,879
Speaker 2: to beating a political dynasty in just a matter of months.

871
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:49,720
Speaker 2: People were pointing out that that meeting with Trump happened

872
00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:53,080
Speaker 2: almost a year to the day from that video that

873
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:55,760
Speaker 2: Zoron released where he was just standing on the street

874
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:58,520
Speaker 2: and nobody knew who he was talking to people who

875
00:41:58,520 --> 00:41:59,560
Speaker 2: would voted for Trump.

876
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 3: About why they voted for Trump.

877
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:05,719
Speaker 2: So truly, it's sort of astronomical rise that again I

878
00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 2: think Trump can't help but respect and that has been

879
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:12,719
Speaker 2: so dynamic and so magnetic that it has completely reshaped

880
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:15,600
Speaker 2: the national conversation to the point of now you've got,

881
00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:18,920
Speaker 2: you know, the Trump White House bending to some of

882
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:20,920
Speaker 2: those realities and having to feel like they got to

883
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:23,080
Speaker 2: put on a healthcare plan. When on the campaign trail,

884
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:24,880
Speaker 2: he all he said was he's got a concept of

885
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:27,520
Speaker 2: a plan, So you know, I'll just we don't have

886
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:30,040
Speaker 2: to play these thoughts because we've gone on now long enough.

887
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:33,480
Speaker 2: But you have lots of Republicans who have postured about

888
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:35,520
Speaker 2: how much they hate him and how he's an Islamist

889
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:38,200
Speaker 2: and he's a jihadist, and he's doing Sharia law and

890
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:40,839
Speaker 2: he's a terrorist in all of these things, and they

891
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:43,440
Speaker 2: had to invent some fake reality where he was like

892
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:47,040
Speaker 2: trembling at the feet of Trump. Jack Pisobic, who was

893
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:49,279
Speaker 2: there in the White House who asked some question to

894
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 2: Zoron as well, was talking about Zoron was quivering there.

895
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:54,279
Speaker 2: It's like, dude, come on, I mean, we all saw

896
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:56,880
Speaker 2: the meeting, Like, let's be real about what this looked like.

897
00:42:57,239 --> 00:42:59,200
Speaker 2: Rue de Juliani said that he was sick to his

898
00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:01,359
Speaker 2: stomach seeing Zoran in.

899
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:02,120
Speaker 3: The White House.

900
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:04,640
Speaker 2: And Laura Lumer, of course, is just like having a

901
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 2: full blown crash out because she just I mean, she's

902
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:11,479
Speaker 2: an open islamophobe, like just like the most bigoted person

903
00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:14,839
Speaker 2: against Muslims that you could possibly be. So to see her,

904
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:19,479
Speaker 2: guy Trump in there, incredibly friendly with Zoron, who again

905
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:23,120
Speaker 2: has been made out to be this like radical Islamist

906
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:26,759
Speaker 2: jihadis boogeyman by the Republicans. There was there were a

907
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:29,600
Speaker 2: lot of different directions of cope going on from the right.

908
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:33,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely, because look, for them, it was easy, like

909
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:35,960
Speaker 1: this is some stuff that boomers in Alabama get very

910
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:38,640
Speaker 1: upset about, right, like, oh my god, New York City

911
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 1: and all of this, and so for them like taking

912
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:44,520
Speaker 1: away that. But look, I actually think that's a good

913
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:48,920
Speaker 1: thing because running on like low iq islamophobia is just boring.

914
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:51,560
Speaker 1: And you know, it's a tried and true playbook, I

915
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:54,400
Speaker 1: guess down in the South. But it also just you know,

916
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:57,520
Speaker 1: it goes past issues affordability. It's like, if you can't

917
00:43:57,520 --> 00:43:59,720
Speaker 1: critique anything else, and if you don't have a solution,

918
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:02,080
Speaker 1: which they're currently being caught with their pants down, both

919
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:04,400
Speaker 1: on the economy and on healthcare, yeah you're gonna get

920
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:06,319
Speaker 1: your ass beat. And you know, if anything, it's kind

921
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:11,040
Speaker 1: of healing American politics. But why don't we get to

922
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:14,719
Speaker 1: the next part, because I this is the side of

923
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:18,840
Speaker 1: zoron the operator, which may may actually make him leftist upset.

924
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:22,359
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, so I'll get my reaction on the other

925
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:24,719
Speaker 2: side of this. But as you guys have probably been

926
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 2: tracking Hakim Jeffries, who is of course the leader of

927
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:31,480
Speaker 2: the Democrats in the House, has a primary challenger, a

928
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:34,640
Speaker 2: guy named Chios who is a DSA member. He's a

929
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:38,040
Speaker 2: leftist on the Democratic City Council. He and Zoron were close.

930
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:40,560
Speaker 2: He was a supporter of Zoron, although he did actually

931
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:44,000
Speaker 2: jump into the primary game pretty late with a I

932
00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:46,440
Speaker 2: think a joint endorsement of a couple different candidates. In

933
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:51,640
Speaker 2: any case, Zoron had discouraged him for running against Jeffries.

934
00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:53,640
Speaker 2: The suspicion is that he made some kind of a

935
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:57,200
Speaker 2: deal with Jeffries to get the endorsement prior to the primary,

936
00:44:57,320 --> 00:44:59,600
Speaker 2: and part of that deal was like, I won't back

937
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:02,600
Speaker 2: a Mary challenger. But not only did he not back Geosa,

938
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:06,360
Speaker 2: but he actually went to the DSA endorsement meeting to

939
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:10,120
Speaker 2: speak out against endorsement of him. So he really is

940
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:14,960
Speaker 2: like using his political capital to undercut a challenger to

941
00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:19,040
Speaker 2: Hakim Jefferies. Hakim Jefferies has come up through politics as

942
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:22,800
Speaker 2: an adversary to the left. He has sucked in his position,

943
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:24,880
Speaker 2: just like on the merits. He has not done a

944
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:28,000
Speaker 2: good job, et cetera. So Zoran got asked in this

945
00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:30,560
Speaker 2: meet the press interview. Okay, so we know that you're

946
00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:34,200
Speaker 2: backing Hakeem Jeffries in this primary, but do you want

947
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:36,680
Speaker 2: to see him as Speaker of the House.

948
00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:38,560
Speaker 3: Let's go ahead and take a listen to how Zorn

949
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:38,960
Speaker 3: played this.

950
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:42,080
Speaker 10: Democrats when the mid terms, do you want to see

951
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:45,320
Speaker 10: Leader Jeffries become the Speaker of the House. Yes, okay,

952
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:47,280
Speaker 10: that was a firm Wick answer.

953
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:52,120
Speaker 2: Yes, I mean no, no equivocating, no word salad, no nothing,

954
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:55,480
Speaker 2: And I mean, I guess I'll start with the positive r.

955
00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:58,040
Speaker 2: I'm curious to get your reaction. You can put V

956
00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:01,080
Speaker 2: eight up on the screen. Zorn's intervention and DSA endorsement

957
00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:04,640
Speaker 2: probably made the difference here because you had them voting

958
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:08,560
Speaker 2: not to recommend endorsing TSA's congressional run. This was the

959
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:11,799
Speaker 2: DSA Electoral working Group. Total of twelve hundred and five

960
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:14,680
Speaker 2: DSA members voted, five hundred and fifty five voted to recommend,

961
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:16,520
Speaker 2: six hundred and twenty six voted again.

962
00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:17,760
Speaker 3: So it was pretty close vote.

963
00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:21,359
Speaker 2: Very likely again that Zorn's intervention made the difference here,

964
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:23,920
Speaker 2: and so on the positive side, listen, if you're going

965
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:25,720
Speaker 2: to do it, I appreciate him not doing the words

966
00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:28,520
Speaker 2: out and just saying yes, I'm behind him. That's it,

967
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:32,640
Speaker 2: let's move on. I understand why. I understand the logic.

968
00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:35,360
Speaker 2: I think it is similar logic as the one that

969
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:38,920
Speaker 2: leads him to go to the White House and strike

970
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:42,480
Speaker 2: up a friendly relationship with Trump, which is that he

971
00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:45,360
Speaker 2: feels that the end of the day, he wants to

972
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:48,120
Speaker 2: do whatever he can and be as pragmatic as possible

973
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:53,200
Speaker 2: in achieving his agenda. On this decision, though, I don't

974
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:56,880
Speaker 2: think that the calculation really works out because Jefferies is

975
00:46:56,920 --> 00:46:59,080
Speaker 2: not the President of the United States. He does not

976
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:02,920
Speaker 2: have that level of power in New York City. He

977
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:07,600
Speaker 2: cannot thwart your ambitions to that degree. And I truly

978
00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:10,840
Speaker 2: believe that whether it's Jeffries or Pelosi or Schumer or

979
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:13,799
Speaker 2: any of these democratic establishment types, first of all, they're

980
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:16,440
Speaker 2: going to try to fuck you anyway, because they always do.

981
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 2: Aoc has tried playing this inside game. It has gotten

982
00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:24,680
Speaker 2: her effectively nothing really in terms of actual concrete policy deliverables.

983
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:27,759
Speaker 2: And the only thing they really respect is when you

984
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:30,879
Speaker 2: have power and they have to kowtow to it. That's

985
00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:33,480
Speaker 2: what's been going on more with Kathy Hochel, where she

986
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:36,520
Speaker 2: saw the strength of Zorn's movement and she has had

987
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:40,760
Speaker 2: to bend to his policy priorities. So in this instance,

988
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:43,560
Speaker 2: with you know, go throwing in behind Jeffries and being

989
00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:47,319
Speaker 2: unequivocal about it and trying to Undercutchosa, I think it

990
00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:50,480
Speaker 2: is I understand the calculation he's doing it doing. I

991
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:54,000
Speaker 2: disagree that this is the right approach in this case,

992
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:56,880
Speaker 2: because I think that Jeffries will respond much more to

993
00:47:56,960 --> 00:47:59,280
Speaker 2: power and you will get much more of your way

994
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:01,000
Speaker 2: if he is true you having to look over his

995
00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:04,480
Speaker 2: shoulder at a primary challenger and having to accommodate himself

996
00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:05,960
Speaker 2: to your goals and your power.

997
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:08,279
Speaker 1: I totally agree. And let's lay the flip side of

998
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:11,960
Speaker 1: everything I just talked about with Trump. Trump is capricious

999
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:13,839
Speaker 1: and three runs from now he could do it all over.

1000
00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:16,120
Speaker 1: And so now you're actually gonna have the visual of

1001
00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:17,880
Speaker 1: you in the oval, and you have to deal with

1002
00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:20,320
Speaker 1: all the problems now here with Jeffries. And this is

1003
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:23,640
Speaker 1: the theory behind the Trump meeting and the Jeffreys endorsement

1004
00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 1: is one and the same. I need to work with

1005
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:27,319
Speaker 1: the political system in order to get my things done. Now,

1006
00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:29,720
Speaker 1: we talked about this before he won, and I'll revert

1007
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:32,160
Speaker 1: to my cynicism. Kathy Hochel three days after the election,

1008
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:34,200
Speaker 1: what does she say, Yeah, this whole free bust thing,

1009
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:36,800
Speaker 1: it ain't happened. She literally said that. She's like, it

1010
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:38,919
Speaker 1: doesn't have the support in Albany, so it's not gonna happen.

1011
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:40,520
Speaker 1: It's like, okay, well that was one of your signature,

1012
00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:43,880
Speaker 1: actual possible deliverables. The next one, the most difficult thing

1013
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:45,520
Speaker 1: he wants to do is Bill two hundred thousand units

1014
00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:47,920
Speaker 1: of affordable housing. You're going to need federal dollars for that.

1015
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:49,320
Speaker 1: You're gonna need some hug You're going to need some

1016
00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:51,799
Speaker 1: owning problems in New York City. You're going to need

1017
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:55,239
Speaker 1: the political establishment in New York to be defeated. And

1018
00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:57,360
Speaker 1: you are also going to have to, you know, bulldoze

1019
00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:00,680
Speaker 1: this through with a multiple different political city systems. They

1020
00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:03,080
Speaker 1: don't have much of an incentive right now to work

1021
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:05,320
Speaker 1: with you. So if Kathy Hochele, at the peak of Zoran,

1022
00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:08,120
Speaker 1: right after he gets elected with all the bus is

1023
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:10,560
Speaker 1: willing to come out and say free busses not happening,

1024
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:12,880
Speaker 1: that's a problem, right because you're not having a lot

1025
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:15,239
Speaker 1: of leverage in the political savage. She may face a

1026
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:17,399
Speaker 1: primary challenge. She still doesn't care. She's still not willing

1027
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:18,080
Speaker 1: to go along.

1028
00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:18,480
Speaker 3: She does.

1029
00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:21,439
Speaker 2: She does have a primary challenge from the Lieutenant Governor,

1030
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:22,359
Speaker 2: Antonio rettel Gotta.

1031
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:24,440
Speaker 1: But that's my point. So even with the primary challenge,

1032
00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:26,160
Speaker 1: she's still not afraid in order to come out and

1033
00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:27,759
Speaker 1: say that you got to be afraid, I will say.

1034
00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:29,640
Speaker 2: I will say, though I don't know if you saw this,

1035
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:33,400
Speaker 2: she does want to. She has changed her position on

1036
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:36,800
Speaker 2: raising taxes in order to fund affordable childcare, which is

1037
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:40,320
Speaker 2: another one of his major priorities and maybe actually the

1038
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:43,919
Speaker 2: most difficult one to accomplish. So expanding you know, build

1039
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:45,880
Speaker 2: a Blasi is able to expand to free pre K

1040
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:48,200
Speaker 2: that was the one that is you know, that's a

1041
00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:51,480
Speaker 2: huge that would be a huge, major new program that

1042
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:54,320
Speaker 2: requires new revenue. And she has signal she's willing to

1043
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:56,719
Speaker 2: work with him on that. But again I think that

1044
00:49:56,920 --> 00:49:58,719
Speaker 2: is because of the you know, the power of his

1045
00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:01,040
Speaker 2: movement and her really re the tiles about where the

1046
00:50:01,080 --> 00:50:05,239
Speaker 2: Democratic Party is. But you know, so like I get it,

1047
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:08,440
Speaker 2: he doesn't want to have the relationship Build a Blasio

1048
00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:11,839
Speaker 2: had with Andrew Cuomo where they just absolutely hated each

1049
00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:16,520
Speaker 2: other's guts that made it very difficult for Deblasio to govern.

1050
00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:19,400
Speaker 2: It really ends up, you know, putting a sort of

1051
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:21,759
Speaker 2: rock around the neck of his mayoralty, even though he

1052
00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:24,120
Speaker 2: is able to accomplish the universal pre k So like

1053
00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:28,920
Speaker 2: Kathy Hochel, has some genuine power and cards in the state. Obviously,

1054
00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:31,800
Speaker 2: President Trump does as the prossy of the United States.

1055
00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:36,520
Speaker 2: I don't really understand what you need, Hakim Jeffries. Like

1056
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:39,839
Speaker 2: it may be there are things under this. I think

1057
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:42,520
Speaker 2: it must be the case that there's some part of

1058
00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:46,360
Speaker 2: his power struck that I'm not seeing above the surface,

1059
00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:50,600
Speaker 2: But I don't really get what you need, HIKEM. Jeffries,

1060
00:50:50,680 --> 00:50:53,479
Speaker 2: for to be totally honest with you, and even putting

1061
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:57,120
Speaker 2: that aside again, I think playing some more hardball and

1062
00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:00,400
Speaker 2: showing some more strength, especially when this guy, like he

1063
00:51:00,719 --> 00:51:06,080
Speaker 2: barely passive aggressively endorsed you two days before the primary

1064
00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:07,839
Speaker 2: and now we owe him this big debt.

1065
00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:10,360
Speaker 3: Like I just I don't really.

1066
00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:13,759
Speaker 2: Understand the calculation that is going on here. Like I said,

1067
00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:15,880
Speaker 2: there may be things beneath the surface that I'm just

1068
00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:19,600
Speaker 2: not aware of that changes the calculation somehow. But I

1069
00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:22,879
Speaker 2: think in general, what we've seen from from the left

1070
00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:26,520
Speaker 2: is that the approach to power has to be more muscular,

1071
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:28,960
Speaker 2: you know, showing more of the strength of the movement,

1072
00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:31,160
Speaker 2: showing hey, you are going to pay yourself in your

1073
00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:33,760
Speaker 2: own district and have to worry about this primary challenge

1074
00:51:34,040 --> 00:51:37,040
Speaker 2: if you don't come more in our direction. To me,

1075
00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:40,040
Speaker 2: that seems like the you know, much more effective approach

1076
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:40,799
Speaker 2: to take.

1077
00:51:41,239 --> 00:51:42,640
Speaker 3: So I don't know.

1078
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:45,680
Speaker 2: Maybe there are things going on here dynamics I don't understand,

1079
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:48,600
Speaker 2: But I don't really understand what it is that you

1080
00:51:48,719 --> 00:51:51,880
Speaker 2: need so badly from Haqem Jeffries that you're willing to

1081
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:55,640
Speaker 2: just unequivocally back in kneecap his primary opponent, et cetera.

1082
00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:59,680
Speaker 1: I think it's a probably a backroom deal with power centers, right, Hakem.

1083
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:01,680
Speaker 1: You mean I have no political popularity. He's still the

1084
00:52:01,719 --> 00:52:04,800
Speaker 1: freaking Democratic leader, and he's got access to every billionaire

1085
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:07,360
Speaker 1: in New York City, who if you want to build housing,

1086
00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:09,840
Speaker 1: who owns all the housing, who owns all the buildings?

1087
00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:13,400
Speaker 1: Like you know, I really think that's the only possible explanation.

1088
00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:16,000
Speaker 1: If we think back to the Oval meeting that was

1089
00:52:16,080 --> 00:52:19,120
Speaker 1: broker by one of these like Trump friendly real estate

1090
00:52:19,239 --> 00:52:22,600
Speaker 1: moguls right, so you can see how you look. This

1091
00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:25,439
Speaker 1: is the problem, as I've always said, with governing New York,

1092
00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:28,040
Speaker 1: this is a city run by the filthy rich. Like

1093
00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:29,600
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, you will have to

1094
00:52:29,719 --> 00:52:32,160
Speaker 1: confront that. In some ways you can go against it.

1095
00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:34,400
Speaker 1: You could try and they probably they're probably going to

1096
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:36,200
Speaker 1: defeat you, or you could try to work with them,

1097
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:38,320
Speaker 1: which in this case he probably is doing. In the

1098
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:40,880
Speaker 1: case of Hakem, I'll say what I think is the

1099
00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:44,840
Speaker 1: craziest is the DSA stuff, because it's one thing to

1100
00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:47,239
Speaker 1: stay out of the race, which I think he should

1101
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:48,839
Speaker 1: have done. I think the smartest thing would have been

1102
00:52:49,120 --> 00:52:51,120
Speaker 1: stay out, don't endorse, but don't unindorse.

1103
00:52:51,320 --> 00:52:54,319
Speaker 3: But you can just do the voters right.

1104
00:52:54,680 --> 00:52:55,480
Speaker 1: That's a class thing.

1105
00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:57,560
Speaker 2: People do it all that district. I trust the people

1106
00:52:57,640 --> 00:52:59,600
Speaker 2: in New York, they're going to get to evaluate it.

1107
00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:00,799
Speaker 3: Decision right.

1108
00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:04,080
Speaker 1: Nobody asks me, nobody asked you to do. To come

1109
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:08,200
Speaker 1: out affirmatively to endorse him and then go to the

1110
00:53:08,280 --> 00:53:11,160
Speaker 1: DSA meeting and say don't endorse him. I also, by

1111
00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:12,920
Speaker 1: the way, I think this is a critical moment for

1112
00:53:13,120 --> 00:53:15,640
Speaker 1: the DSA because are you doing It's basically like the

1113
00:53:15,719 --> 00:53:17,840
Speaker 1: Republican Party at Maggot's Like, do you work for zoron

1114
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:20,520
Speaker 1: or do you you know, stick to your own guns,

1115
00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:23,600
Speaker 1: Like like, this is the most counter DSA thing I've

1116
00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:28,480
Speaker 1: ever seen, is not endorsing Haking Jeffrey's primary opponent, Like

1117
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:30,719
Speaker 1: what are we doing here? I don't know, I don't

1118
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:32,440
Speaker 1: understand it at all on their part.

1119
00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:35,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean it is a real show of

1120
00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:39,080
Speaker 2: strength for Zoran with the organization for sure, you know.

1121
00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:40,640
Speaker 3: I mean the things that I've seen.

1122
00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:47,560
Speaker 2: Are she just joined DSA relatively recently, so they feel like, oh,

1123
00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:50,600
Speaker 2: he's a little bit of an opportunist. He had said

1124
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:53,799
Speaker 2: that he voted for Bernie in twenty sixteen. He wasn't

1125
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:58,239
Speaker 2: actually registered to vote in twenty sixteen, so apparently there

1126
00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:00,880
Speaker 2: are a few things like that that make them a

1127
00:54:00,920 --> 00:54:02,319
Speaker 2: little skeptical of him.

1128
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:03,040
Speaker 3: But I don't know.

1129
00:54:03,320 --> 00:54:06,759
Speaker 2: My view at this point is there's all this like

1130
00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:09,640
Speaker 2: oh well, and then the other pieces. I think it's

1131
00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:12,640
Speaker 2: a very difficult district to win, Like Hakeem Jeffries Zorn

1132
00:54:12,719 --> 00:54:18,040
Speaker 2: won that district. He did, but Jeffries is well liked

1133
00:54:18,120 --> 00:54:20,719
Speaker 2: there and apparently it's going to be difficult to win.

1134
00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:23,440
Speaker 2: So that's the other piece. So what I've heard from

1135
00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:25,840
Speaker 2: their perspective is Number one, I guess she has not

1136
00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:28,520
Speaker 2: been a DSA member for long. So like, okay, as

1137
00:54:28,560 --> 00:54:31,320
Speaker 2: this opportunism, you see the Zoron wave, you're jumping on it.

1138
00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:34,480
Speaker 2: Number two he said he voted for Bernie in twenty sixteen,

1139
00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:36,080
Speaker 2: apparently wasn't registered to vote.

1140
00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:36,879
Speaker 3: Number Three.

1141
00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:39,799
Speaker 2: The district I think is genuinely a very difficult one

1142
00:54:40,120 --> 00:54:43,440
Speaker 2: to win. Hakeem Jefferies is popular. Yes, Zoron did win it,

1143
00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:45,920
Speaker 2: but apparently Jefferies has a lot of standing in the district.

1144
00:54:46,160 --> 00:54:48,759
Speaker 2: You're going to have to win over some of those,

1145
00:54:49,239 --> 00:54:52,719
Speaker 2: like older working class black voters that have been very

1146
00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:55,200
Speaker 2: difficult for leftists to be able to win.

1147
00:54:55,280 --> 00:54:55,400
Speaker 3: Now.

1148
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:57,800
Speaker 2: Zoron won them actually in the general election, but in

1149
00:54:57,840 --> 00:55:01,359
Speaker 2: the primary they were largely with Andrew. So that's kind

1150
00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:02,640
Speaker 2: of the electoral calculus.

1151
00:55:03,160 --> 00:55:06,000
Speaker 3: I just I don't. I think it's an old.

1152
00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:08,799
Speaker 2: Way of thinking to do too much of like, oh

1153
00:55:08,880 --> 00:55:11,120
Speaker 2: my god, can we win, Let me crunch the numbers,

1154
00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:16,239
Speaker 2: et cetera. There are so many left insurgent candidates coming

1155
00:55:16,360 --> 00:55:20,239
Speaker 2: out of the woodwork. I think it really to me

1156
00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:23,000
Speaker 2: the way to go is to back a whole slew

1157
00:55:23,080 --> 00:55:25,120
Speaker 2: of them, and then some of them are going to lose,

1158
00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:26,640
Speaker 2: and some of them are going to get through, and

1159
00:55:26,719 --> 00:55:28,239
Speaker 2: some of them are going to get through. That you

1160
00:55:28,520 --> 00:55:32,840
Speaker 2: would not necessarily expect because what we have going for

1161
00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:35,680
Speaker 2: us now on the left is that the liberal Democratic

1162
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:39,200
Speaker 2: base largely agrees with us now in a way that

1163
00:55:39,320 --> 00:55:43,080
Speaker 2: they really didn't previously. They sort of bought into the project.

1164
00:55:43,480 --> 00:55:46,000
Speaker 2: They believe they're the strongest fighters against Trump. You know,

1165
00:55:46,080 --> 00:55:49,160
Speaker 2: they buy in certainly to the policy project, although that's

1166
00:55:49,200 --> 00:55:52,399
Speaker 2: never really been the problem. The Democratic leadership is really

1167
00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:56,480
Speaker 2: defenestrated and deeply unpopular with the liberal base. My view

1168
00:55:56,600 --> 00:55:58,880
Speaker 2: is just like, get behind as many of these candidates

1169
00:55:58,920 --> 00:56:02,239
Speaker 2: as you possibly can, and even if she, of say,

1170
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:06,360
Speaker 2: cannot win in that primary. Came Jefferies having to worry

1171
00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:09,640
Speaker 2: about him. That's going to change the way he operates.

1172
00:56:09,719 --> 00:56:12,160
Speaker 2: That's going to change his political calculus. You can already

1173
00:56:12,160 --> 00:56:14,920
Speaker 2: see it with Richie Torres, who has drawn a primary

1174
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:17,440
Speaker 2: challenger and is having to change some of the way

1175
00:56:17,520 --> 00:56:19,600
Speaker 2: he talks about is you're gon try to you know,

1176
00:56:19,680 --> 00:56:21,200
Speaker 2: he came out right away and said we can't have

1177
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:24,279
Speaker 2: these Islamophobic attacks on Zora, and like you can see

1178
00:56:24,360 --> 00:56:27,920
Speaker 2: the way, he's having to accommodate him and change himself

1179
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:31,240
Speaker 2: in real time to make sure that he can defeat

1180
00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:35,080
Speaker 2: a potential a primary challenge from his left. So, in

1181
00:56:35,239 --> 00:56:39,520
Speaker 2: my view, if you have all of these Democrats having

1182
00:56:39,600 --> 00:56:42,320
Speaker 2: to look over their shoulder to the left and worry

1183
00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:45,600
Speaker 2: about what is coming even though many many you know,

1184
00:56:45,840 --> 00:56:48,400
Speaker 2: or if not most, of those challenges won't succeed just

1185
00:56:48,440 --> 00:56:51,320
Speaker 2: because of the power of incumbency, that's still going to

1186
00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:54,920
Speaker 2: change your political landscape. And we see that happen on

1187
00:56:55,000 --> 00:56:57,359
Speaker 2: the right. I mean, that's what the Tea Party wave did, right.

1188
00:56:57,680 --> 00:57:00,960
Speaker 2: You had people who lost in the primary, but more

1189
00:57:01,040 --> 00:57:03,520
Speaker 2: than that, you had the whole Republican Party having to

1190
00:57:03,640 --> 00:57:06,120
Speaker 2: worry like what is coming for me from the right,

1191
00:57:06,560 --> 00:57:10,600
Speaker 2: and that changed in the overall approach to politics. So

1192
00:57:11,080 --> 00:57:13,520
Speaker 2: that's my view of the approach here. Rather than being like,

1193
00:57:13,560 --> 00:57:14,960
Speaker 2: oh my god, I don't know if you can win,

1194
00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:18,240
Speaker 2: just get behind as many of these candidates as possible

1195
00:57:18,520 --> 00:57:19,960
Speaker 2: who are strong on your issues.

1196
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:21,480
Speaker 3: And Sheos is strong on.

1197
00:57:21,640 --> 00:57:24,600
Speaker 2: DSA's issues and has been a left voice on the

1198
00:57:24,680 --> 00:57:27,640
Speaker 2: city council now so has a proven track record. That's

1199
00:57:27,720 --> 00:57:29,640
Speaker 2: my view of how you know how to play this

1200
00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:32,280
Speaker 2: moment for you know, for DSA and for the left

1201
00:57:32,320 --> 00:57:33,120
Speaker 2: more broadly.

1202
00:57:33,080 --> 00:57:36,760
Speaker 1: Anyone out there. You're an idiot if you're this whole like, oh,

1203
00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:41,000
Speaker 1: shut up, all right, this is politics. It's about opportunists.

1204
00:57:41,000 --> 00:57:43,000
Speaker 1: Who do you think you're dealing with? You think you're

1205
00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:46,760
Speaker 1: dealing with like normal, well adjusted people. No, the play

1206
00:57:46,800 --> 00:57:49,600
Speaker 1: that you win is to make your side politically convenient.

1207
00:57:49,880 --> 00:57:52,280
Speaker 1: It's like when all those neo con Republicans started calling

1208
00:57:52,320 --> 00:57:54,920
Speaker 1: themselves maga. All right, that was a victory for maga.

1209
00:57:55,200 --> 00:57:57,320
Speaker 1: Why now, you know it should have come with something

1210
00:57:57,720 --> 00:57:59,400
Speaker 1: like in terms of well, then you're gonna have to change.

1211
00:57:59,400 --> 00:58:02,280
Speaker 1: So that's a but why do they call themselves maga?

1212
00:58:02,440 --> 00:58:04,480
Speaker 1: That's what the voters want to hear. That's what you do.

1213
00:58:04,720 --> 00:58:07,840
Speaker 1: That's how you win. You think that everyone just Pollyanna

1214
00:58:07,960 --> 00:58:11,000
Speaker 1: voted for the Civil Rights Act or everyone just Pollyanna

1215
00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:13,440
Speaker 1: just comes around like, oh, actually I've had a total

1216
00:58:13,560 --> 00:58:15,960
Speaker 1: change of art here. No, all right, they do it

1217
00:58:16,240 --> 00:58:20,280
Speaker 1: for political opportunistic purposes. That's how you win. Shit, read

1218
00:58:20,320 --> 00:58:23,800
Speaker 1: a book. These people are just so pyeing the sky honestly,

1219
00:58:23,880 --> 00:58:25,920
Speaker 1: but you want it. That's a loser mentality.

1220
00:58:26,080 --> 00:58:28,600
Speaker 2: I mean, I agree the fact that it is now

1221
00:58:29,240 --> 00:58:33,600
Speaker 2: the cynical political move is to be a DSA member, Like,

1222
00:58:33,920 --> 00:58:37,200
Speaker 2: guys take the win win. That's great. You know that

1223
00:58:37,320 --> 00:58:39,880
Speaker 2: has never been the case before. And now you're like I,

1224
00:58:40,120 --> 00:58:43,680
Speaker 2: you know, you are adopting there. As you said, you're

1225
00:58:44,200 --> 00:58:48,000
Speaker 2: positioning yourself in their lane. Like I don't really care

1226
00:58:48,200 --> 00:58:51,280
Speaker 2: what's in his heart, you know, I care about what

1227
00:58:51,840 --> 00:58:56,040
Speaker 2: political actions are being being compelled. And you know, after

1228
00:58:56,120 --> 00:58:59,360
Speaker 2: the fact, if he doesn't stick to his principles, if

1229
00:58:59,400 --> 00:59:01,400
Speaker 2: he gets elected, doesn't stick to his principles, then you

1230
00:59:01,480 --> 00:59:02,080
Speaker 2: can unendorse.

1231
00:59:02,120 --> 00:59:03,680
Speaker 3: You could back a primary challenger.

1232
00:59:03,520 --> 00:59:05,640
Speaker 2: Whatever, or do what you need to do to discipline

1233
00:59:06,200 --> 00:59:08,520
Speaker 2: your you know, people who run with your backing.

1234
00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:12,240
Speaker 3: But yeah, for now, just if they're with you, be

1235
00:59:12,400 --> 00:59:12,800
Speaker 3: with them.

1236
00:59:13,440 --> 00:59:16,439
Speaker 2: Make these democrats have to fear you and worry about

1237
00:59:16,440 --> 00:59:18,120
Speaker 2: whether you're going to back a challenge or against them.

1238
00:59:18,160 --> 00:59:20,480
Speaker 1: Think about this. They're like, he's a political opportunitist because

1239
00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:23,040
Speaker 1: he lied about voting for Bernie. You should be happy

1240
00:59:23,040 --> 00:59:24,920
Speaker 1: about that. You should want people to lie about that,

1241
00:59:25,160 --> 00:59:29,120
Speaker 1: all right, come on, It's like all these Republicans who

1242
00:59:29,160 --> 00:59:31,120
Speaker 1: all voted for like Jeb Bush and then they lie

1243
00:59:31,160 --> 00:59:33,040
Speaker 1: that they've been as Trump supporter. That's a victory for

1244
00:59:33,120 --> 00:59:35,480
Speaker 1: Trump morons, right, I don't.

1245
00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:37,080
Speaker 3: Know, Yeah, this is what we're not even really sure

1246
00:59:37,080 --> 00:59:37,320
Speaker 3: I mean.

1247
00:59:37,680 --> 00:59:39,280
Speaker 2: And I also I'm not really even sure that it's

1248
00:59:39,360 --> 00:59:42,040
Speaker 2: fair with regard to Chiosa, because like, I mean, nobody

1249
00:59:42,200 --> 00:59:44,960
Speaker 2: says he's always certainly been a progressive, whether he's like

1250
00:59:45,160 --> 00:59:47,480
Speaker 2: the brand a Newish DSA member or not. Like, he's

1251
00:59:47,520 --> 00:59:51,320
Speaker 2: definitely broadly on the left. So this isn't like someone

1252
00:59:51,360 --> 00:59:54,240
Speaker 2: who just showed up and suddenly flipped all of their positions.

1253
00:59:54,320 --> 00:59:57,760
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know, learn how to win. That's

1254
00:59:57,800 --> 01:00:01,760
Speaker 1: what winning looks like. All right, let's get to the

1255
01:00:01,880 --> 01:00:05,400
Speaker 1: brain turning down to Ukraine. Some major developments over the

1256
01:00:05,480 --> 01:00:08,040
Speaker 1: last couple of days on a potential Ukraine peace deal.

1257
01:00:08,120 --> 01:00:10,200
Speaker 1: There's been a lot of back and forth between the

1258
01:00:10,360 --> 01:00:12,760
Speaker 1: United States and whether a peace plan is either real

1259
01:00:12,960 --> 01:00:16,440
Speaker 1: or not. There is officially some progress, at least for

1260
01:00:16,640 --> 01:00:19,640
Speaker 1: right now. The United States, the Europeans, and the Ukrainians

1261
01:00:19,720 --> 01:00:22,920
Speaker 1: met in Geneva over the weekend. This is what the

1262
01:00:23,080 --> 01:00:26,320
Speaker 1: Ukrainian lea negotiator had to say. Let's take a lesson.

1263
01:00:26,760 --> 01:00:32,080
Speaker 11: We have a very productive first session. We've distinguished American

1264
01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:36,160
Speaker 11: delegation we have very good progress and we are moving

1265
01:00:36,280 --> 01:00:39,920
Speaker 11: forward to the just and lasting piece. The Ukrainian people

1266
01:00:40,280 --> 01:00:44,800
Speaker 11: deserve and want this piece more than any more anyone

1267
01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:51,320
Speaker 11: in this planet. We think our big friends United States

1268
01:00:51,400 --> 01:00:55,480
Speaker 11: and personal President Trump and his team to the commitment

1269
01:00:55,600 --> 01:00:59,640
Speaker 11: to bring this piece. And we will continue to work today.

1270
01:00:59,760 --> 01:01:03,800
Speaker 11: As Secretary set we will be working and say in

1271
01:01:03,920 --> 01:01:08,280
Speaker 11: coming days to join proposals, and we will also will

1272
01:01:08,360 --> 01:01:13,840
Speaker 11: engage European friends. And of course the final words will

1273
01:01:13,880 --> 01:01:17,040
Speaker 11: be of our leaders of the President of the United

1274
01:01:17,080 --> 01:01:22,520
Speaker 11: States and Ukraine, and I hope that we can achieve

1275
01:01:22,680 --> 01:01:24,680
Speaker 11: the good progress today.

1276
01:01:25,160 --> 01:01:27,919
Speaker 1: Okay, so that was the words from the negotiator there

1277
01:01:28,000 --> 01:01:31,120
Speaker 1: for the Ukrainian side. There has been so much back

1278
01:01:31,200 --> 01:01:34,960
Speaker 1: and forth on a peace plan. There's a European counterproposal.

1279
01:01:35,200 --> 01:01:36,680
Speaker 1: Let's go ahead and put the next element up on

1280
01:01:36,720 --> 01:01:38,840
Speaker 1: the screen. I'm going to go ahead and read from

1281
01:01:39,080 --> 01:01:42,880
Speaker 1: some of the most key parts of what eventually was

1282
01:01:43,080 --> 01:01:46,320
Speaker 1: accepted by the United States as it's outline for a

1283
01:01:46,440 --> 01:01:49,920
Speaker 1: peace plan. Here are the key points. Number one, the

1284
01:01:50,080 --> 01:01:52,640
Speaker 1: size of the Ukrainian armed forces would be limited to

1285
01:01:52,720 --> 01:01:57,000
Speaker 1: six hundred thousand personnel. Now, this is a sticking point

1286
01:01:57,280 --> 01:01:59,720
Speaker 1: around the size of the Ukrainian military, the Ukrainians and

1287
01:01:59,720 --> 01:02:02,160
Speaker 1: the Pans pushing it very very hard against this. Ukraine

1288
01:02:02,200 --> 01:02:04,080
Speaker 1: currently has some two million people in the military, nine

1289
01:02:04,160 --> 01:02:08,560
Speaker 1: hundred thousand active duty personnel. This was specifically a part

1290
01:02:08,800 --> 01:02:11,560
Speaker 1: which is being requested and being pushed by the Russian

1291
01:02:11,680 --> 01:02:14,320
Speaker 1: side because of course they don't necessarily want to sign

1292
01:02:14,560 --> 01:02:17,040
Speaker 1: a peace deal, some end to the war, which would

1293
01:02:17,080 --> 01:02:21,520
Speaker 1: also keep a massive major Ukrainian military there as some

1294
01:02:21,680 --> 01:02:24,440
Speaker 1: sort of demilitarized zone, and then of course keep the

1295
01:02:24,560 --> 01:02:27,440
Speaker 1: war continuing and make it so that some future some

1296
01:02:27,560 --> 01:02:30,200
Speaker 1: sort of conflict may break out. Obviously that's up to them.

1297
01:02:30,240 --> 01:02:32,160
Speaker 1: They didn't necessarily have to invade in the first place,

1298
01:02:32,400 --> 01:02:35,000
Speaker 1: not justifying it, just explaining from their side. But this

1299
01:02:35,160 --> 01:02:38,080
Speaker 1: is a huge sticking point for the Ukrainians and the Europeans,

1300
01:02:38,120 --> 01:02:40,440
Speaker 1: but one that was accepted by the US and was

1301
01:02:40,560 --> 01:02:44,040
Speaker 1: apparently requested or at least negotiated with the Russians. Number two,

1302
01:02:44,600 --> 01:02:48,160
Speaker 1: this is the big sticking point too. Ukraine agrees to

1303
01:02:48,360 --> 01:02:51,640
Speaker 1: enshrine in its constitution it will not join NATO, and

1304
01:02:51,840 --> 01:02:54,640
Speaker 1: NATO agrees to include in its Statutes of Provision that

1305
01:02:54,760 --> 01:02:57,960
Speaker 1: Ukraine will not be admitted in the future. I would say,

1306
01:02:58,240 --> 01:03:01,200
Speaker 1: this is the biggest sticking point out of all of them, Crystal,

1307
01:03:01,400 --> 01:03:03,800
Speaker 1: and this is the one which is directly countered in

1308
01:03:04,040 --> 01:03:07,320
Speaker 1: the European peace proposal that is put forward. Let's go

1309
01:03:07,480 --> 01:03:09,760
Speaker 1: back and rewind the clock all the way to the

1310
01:03:09,920 --> 01:03:12,800
Speaker 1: very beginning. What was the number one reason that Russia

1311
01:03:12,840 --> 01:03:16,120
Speaker 1: said that they invaded Ukraine NATO? They said, we want

1312
01:03:16,160 --> 01:03:19,160
Speaker 1: an assurance that Ukraine will never be in NATO. And then,

1313
01:03:19,160 --> 01:03:21,360
Speaker 1: if you want to rewind the clock even further, it's

1314
01:03:21,480 --> 01:03:25,720
Speaker 1: NATO that actually invited Ukraine and Georgia to be in

1315
01:03:25,920 --> 01:03:29,320
Speaker 1: the North Atlantic Treaty Organization in the first place, which

1316
01:03:29,640 --> 01:03:33,000
Speaker 1: was a huge sticking point between the US and Ukraine,

1317
01:03:33,120 --> 01:03:36,280
Speaker 1: or the US and Russia a specifically NATO and Russia

1318
01:03:36,520 --> 01:03:39,520
Speaker 1: about encroachment. All that we've gone a million times through

1319
01:03:39,560 --> 01:03:42,400
Speaker 1: the justifications and for the US side as to why

1320
01:03:42,440 --> 01:03:44,640
Speaker 1: it was a good plan. We've explained some of the

1321
01:03:44,760 --> 01:03:51,120
Speaker 1: Russian security objections to increase NATO encroachment in their traditional territory.

1322
01:03:51,400 --> 01:03:53,920
Speaker 1: Nobody said that they should have invaded, not justifying it

1323
01:03:54,480 --> 01:03:56,720
Speaker 1: in that way at all, but it is a political reality.

1324
01:03:56,760 --> 01:03:59,000
Speaker 1: Whenever you're a nuclear armed state with some nine thousand

1325
01:03:59,240 --> 01:04:00,640
Speaker 1: warheads at the end end of the day, they did

1326
01:04:00,720 --> 01:04:03,120
Speaker 1: invade Ukraine. And of course it's not like their military

1327
01:04:03,200 --> 01:04:05,479
Speaker 1: did all that well in the first couple of years.

1328
01:04:05,520 --> 01:04:08,840
Speaker 1: It's only recently, with brute force and manpower they've been

1329
01:04:08,880 --> 01:04:11,720
Speaker 1: able to achieve any military success at all. But the

1330
01:04:11,840 --> 01:04:14,480
Speaker 1: truth is is we are where we are. There are

1331
01:04:15,080 --> 01:04:17,840
Speaker 1: probably a million or so people dead, hundreds of thousands

1332
01:04:17,840 --> 01:04:21,600
Speaker 1: who have been wounded, millions who have been displaced from Ukraine.

1333
01:04:21,760 --> 01:04:24,960
Speaker 1: The Russian military and the Russian people more importantly do

1334
01:04:25,160 --> 01:04:28,560
Speaker 1: not seem to care whatsoever that hundreds of thousands of

1335
01:04:28,720 --> 01:04:31,960
Speaker 1: their countrymen are being led to slaughter in Ukraine. They

1336
01:04:32,080 --> 01:04:35,320
Speaker 1: just don't care. It's kind of remarkable, honestly, It's not

1337
01:04:35,440 --> 01:04:37,360
Speaker 1: really something that I would have predicted. I thought it

1338
01:04:37,480 --> 01:04:39,920
Speaker 1: might have gone the way of Afghanistan. But they're in

1339
01:04:40,000 --> 01:04:43,280
Speaker 1: a much stronger position than they were in let's say,

1340
01:04:43,400 --> 01:04:46,040
Speaker 1: a year or so into the war, when the ability

1341
01:04:46,080 --> 01:04:48,920
Speaker 1: of the Ukrainians to actually mount a real counter offensive

1342
01:04:49,120 --> 01:04:52,640
Speaker 1: could have happened. Putin's point, from the beginning, at least

1343
01:04:52,640 --> 01:04:55,600
Speaker 1: in these negotiations, has been I'm really not going to

1344
01:04:55,640 --> 01:04:58,520
Speaker 1: give up much some of this territory which I'm asking

1345
01:04:58,600 --> 01:05:01,360
Speaker 1: for I'll either take it through blood, or you can

1346
01:05:01,400 --> 01:05:03,320
Speaker 1: give it to me right now and we can stop

1347
01:05:03,360 --> 01:05:05,720
Speaker 1: the killing and then we can sign some sort of

1348
01:05:05,800 --> 01:05:09,560
Speaker 1: overarching peace agreement. But in my opinion, the European and

1349
01:05:09,720 --> 01:05:13,000
Speaker 1: Ukrainian position remains delusional. You are not going to be

1350
01:05:13,040 --> 01:05:15,720
Speaker 1: in NATO. Period. It would actually be insane to give

1351
01:05:15,760 --> 01:05:19,320
Speaker 1: you NATO membership at this point because parts of your country,

1352
01:05:19,480 --> 01:05:22,800
Speaker 1: which you claim is yours is literally under military occupation

1353
01:05:23,120 --> 01:05:25,640
Speaker 1: by a nuclear armed state of foreign power. You can

1354
01:05:25,720 --> 01:05:29,160
Speaker 1: invoke Article five at any time, and you know, there's

1355
01:05:29,160 --> 01:05:33,080
Speaker 1: a case, I think, at least somewhat given Putin's reaction,

1356
01:05:33,200 --> 01:05:36,680
Speaker 1: in the Russian people's reaction and more, that NATO membership

1357
01:05:36,720 --> 01:05:38,800
Speaker 1: actually is just a non starter for a lot of

1358
01:05:38,800 --> 01:05:42,720
Speaker 1: the Russian population, their political establishment and Vladimir Putin and

1359
01:05:42,840 --> 01:05:45,440
Speaker 1: their ability to continue and to fight this war. So

1360
01:05:45,640 --> 01:05:48,800
Speaker 1: what are we all going to do here? I'll just say,

1361
01:05:49,040 --> 01:05:51,800
Speaker 1: which strikes me the most is that even this peace deal,

1362
01:05:52,040 --> 01:05:56,120
Speaker 1: which guarantees gives security guarantees for the remainder of Ukraine,

1363
01:05:56,560 --> 01:05:59,280
Speaker 1: that that's still not enough for the European This is

1364
01:05:59,320 --> 01:06:01,640
Speaker 1: the best thing you can could possibly get. You're basically

1365
01:06:01,720 --> 01:06:05,320
Speaker 1: getting some sort of NATO Article five style guarantee without

1366
01:06:05,400 --> 01:06:07,520
Speaker 1: being inside of NATO. Yes, you have to give up

1367
01:06:07,560 --> 01:06:11,400
Speaker 1: part of territory which are currently under Ukrainian occupation. That's

1368
01:06:11,440 --> 01:06:13,920
Speaker 1: a bitter pill to swallow. I understand. I just read

1369
01:06:13,960 --> 01:06:16,160
Speaker 1: a testimony from a Ukrainian soldier on the front line

1370
01:06:16,480 --> 01:06:19,280
Speaker 1: who look, I am cherry picking, but he was like, guys,

1371
01:06:19,600 --> 01:06:22,920
Speaker 1: there's nobody here. It's all destroyed anyways, and we're probably

1372
01:06:22,960 --> 01:06:25,160
Speaker 1: going to lose it in the first place. To be fair,

1373
01:06:25,320 --> 01:06:27,800
Speaker 1: fifty percent of some Ukrainian soldiers also say that they

1374
01:06:27,840 --> 01:06:29,920
Speaker 1: don't want to accept the peace deal. But I don't know.

1375
01:06:30,040 --> 01:06:32,280
Speaker 1: I mean this entire thing, it's a boondoggle. It's a

1376
01:06:32,360 --> 01:06:35,560
Speaker 1: money laundering operation of apple proportions on the Ukrainian side,

1377
01:06:35,640 --> 01:06:39,160
Speaker 1: insane corruption scandals that have been happening there day after day.

1378
01:06:39,520 --> 01:06:42,960
Speaker 1: Their own military, the average age somewhere between forty and

1379
01:06:43,000 --> 01:06:45,840
Speaker 1: fifty years old. Yes, they've stood firm, and you've got to,

1380
01:06:45,920 --> 01:06:47,840
Speaker 1: of course give them credit for it, but they don't

1381
01:06:47,880 --> 01:06:50,040
Speaker 1: have a chance of holding any of this territory in

1382
01:06:50,120 --> 01:06:52,360
Speaker 1: the long run. You're going to lose it no matter

1383
01:06:52,440 --> 01:06:54,360
Speaker 1: what I mean, It's just going to happen. The only

1384
01:06:54,480 --> 01:06:56,840
Speaker 1: question is how much money, how many lives, and how

1385
01:06:57,760 --> 01:07:00,840
Speaker 1: long much longer this thing has to continue. So I

1386
01:07:00,920 --> 01:07:02,480
Speaker 1: really don't know. I mean, I don't really think there's

1387
01:07:02,480 --> 01:07:04,240
Speaker 1: a weapon system in the world apps in and nuke

1388
01:07:04,280 --> 01:07:06,040
Speaker 1: that we could give the Ukrainians that could help them

1389
01:07:06,040 --> 01:07:09,160
Speaker 1: accomplish their military objectives at this point. So it's pretty delusional.

1390
01:07:09,960 --> 01:07:13,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think we should acknowledge the deal

1391
01:07:13,440 --> 01:07:17,000
Speaker 2: is that as proposed is discussing and unjust based on

1392
01:07:17,080 --> 01:07:20,040
Speaker 2: the fact that the Russians worthy aggressors. You know, it

1393
01:07:20,440 --> 01:07:23,800
Speaker 2: includes giving up parts of so all of Crimea, Luhansk,

1394
01:07:23,880 --> 01:07:27,000
Speaker 2: and Netsk, even parts that the Russians have not been

1395
01:07:27,040 --> 01:07:32,040
Speaker 2: able to take militarily at this point. Kirsan and Zaborisia

1396
01:07:32,120 --> 01:07:35,040
Speaker 2: will be frozen along the current contact lines. But those

1397
01:07:35,200 --> 01:07:39,040
Speaker 2: other regions you're just handing over to Russia. You have

1398
01:07:39,160 --> 01:07:42,880
Speaker 2: the limits on Ukrainian military size, and they're looking at

1399
01:07:42,920 --> 01:07:46,400
Speaker 2: this going okay, but they just invaded us and now

1400
01:07:46,480 --> 01:07:49,720
Speaker 2: you're limiting our ability to be able to fight back.

1401
01:07:49,800 --> 01:07:51,280
Speaker 3: And there's other pieces of this.

1402
01:07:51,400 --> 01:07:54,360
Speaker 2: I mean, the economic part of it is effectively I mean,

1403
01:07:54,400 --> 01:07:58,000
Speaker 2: it's like colonial exploitation. You know, it's certainly another effort

1404
01:07:58,080 --> 01:08:00,960
Speaker 2: to make billions of dollars for Trump and his family

1405
01:08:01,040 --> 01:08:02,800
Speaker 2: in Witcoff or whoever else is going to get their

1406
01:08:02,840 --> 01:08:05,480
Speaker 2: money grubbing hands on this. It is a disgusting and

1407
01:08:05,600 --> 01:08:09,360
Speaker 2: unjust plan. Okay, now we have to deal with reality.

1408
01:08:09,680 --> 01:08:12,600
Speaker 2: What are the alternatives? And you know, it may be

1409
01:08:12,760 --> 01:08:16,599
Speaker 2: that through the negotiations, you can make this slightly more

1410
01:08:17,160 --> 01:08:19,800
Speaker 2: you know, more just towards the Ukrainian side. It's not

1411
01:08:19,880 --> 01:08:21,680
Speaker 2: going to be fully just, there's no doubt about that,

1412
01:08:21,960 --> 01:08:23,640
Speaker 2: but you can, you know, maybe you can change some

1413
01:08:23,720 --> 01:08:26,200
Speaker 2: of the territorial requirements, Maybe you can lift a bit

1414
01:08:26,320 --> 01:08:29,719
Speaker 2: of the size of the military that will be allowed,

1415
01:08:29,800 --> 01:08:32,080
Speaker 2: Maybe you can change some of the different terms, et cetera.

1416
01:08:32,479 --> 01:08:35,519
Speaker 2: This is far from a done deal. But the reality is,

1417
01:08:35,560 --> 01:08:37,800
Speaker 2: if you're going to end the war at this point,

1418
01:08:38,160 --> 01:08:40,080
Speaker 2: it's going to be a hideous deal. It's going to

1419
01:08:40,080 --> 01:08:41,880
Speaker 2: be hideous. You know, it's going to be hideous. It's

1420
01:08:41,880 --> 01:08:43,960
Speaker 2: going to be unfair, it's going to be unjust, it's

1421
01:08:44,000 --> 01:08:46,800
Speaker 2: going to be you know, all of those things. The

1422
01:08:46,960 --> 01:08:50,759
Speaker 2: question is, is the continuation of the war more hideous

1423
01:08:51,120 --> 01:08:53,599
Speaker 2: and more unjust? Is it going to lead to an

1424
01:08:53,680 --> 01:08:57,400
Speaker 2: even worse outcome? And unfortunately, I think that is where

1425
01:08:57,520 --> 01:09:00,840
Speaker 2: we are unless we're willing to go all the way

1426
01:09:00,880 --> 01:09:03,080
Speaker 2: in and like he boots on the ground with them,

1427
01:09:03,240 --> 01:09:05,720
Speaker 2: and go to a full blown war against you know,

1428
01:09:05,840 --> 01:09:08,519
Speaker 2: this nuclear armed superpower, which I don't think is in

1429
01:09:08,600 --> 01:09:11,799
Speaker 2: the best interest of our country or the world. Unless

1430
01:09:11,800 --> 01:09:15,800
Speaker 2: you're willing to do that, you're talking about continued horror,

1431
01:09:15,960 --> 01:09:20,920
Speaker 2: continued war, continued blood and death, and very likely Russia

1432
01:09:21,000 --> 01:09:24,080
Speaker 2: ends up taking these parts of the territory that are

1433
01:09:24,360 --> 01:09:28,240
Speaker 2: being offered in this deal to begin with. So it's ugly,

1434
01:09:28,560 --> 01:09:31,439
Speaker 2: you know, it's an ugly it's if we're going to

1435
01:09:31,600 --> 01:09:34,040
Speaker 2: end it now, it is going to be an extremely

1436
01:09:34,280 --> 01:09:38,600
Speaker 2: ugly end. But what's even uglier is to continue the

1437
01:09:38,720 --> 01:09:42,200
Speaker 2: war in this manner and just continue to bleed own

1438
01:09:42,280 --> 01:09:45,160
Speaker 2: an entire generation of Ukrainian men.

1439
01:09:45,439 --> 01:09:48,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's look, I get it. It's tough, and it's

1440
01:09:48,360 --> 01:09:50,519
Speaker 1: very easy for me to say, I live in the

1441
01:09:50,640 --> 01:09:53,920
Speaker 1: most powerful military in a country with the most powerful

1442
01:09:53,960 --> 01:09:57,200
Speaker 1: military in the world. It's not up for negotiation. But

1443
01:09:57,800 --> 01:10:00,680
Speaker 1: that's not the case for the vast majority. And by

1444
01:10:00,760 --> 01:10:03,320
Speaker 1: the way, if you look at your own history, you

1445
01:10:03,640 --> 01:10:06,479
Speaker 1: are lucky to be alive. I mean that's truth. You

1446
01:10:06,560 --> 01:10:09,120
Speaker 1: are lucky that you get to remain as a polity

1447
01:10:09,479 --> 01:10:13,120
Speaker 1: in the first place. You have accomplished actually something quite great.

1448
01:10:13,320 --> 01:10:17,240
Speaker 1: You've held off the Russians from taking over your entire country.

1449
01:10:17,560 --> 01:10:20,920
Speaker 1: It's the Europeans and the US's fault for selling you

1450
01:10:21,000 --> 01:10:23,680
Speaker 1: a dream that you were going to survive, you know,

1451
01:10:23,880 --> 01:10:26,679
Speaker 1: completely intact, and you were going to take back Crimea

1452
01:10:26,720 --> 01:10:28,439
Speaker 1: in the first place, but got way too high on

1453
01:10:28,520 --> 01:10:31,479
Speaker 1: their own supply, and then the military reality of what

1454
01:10:31,560 --> 01:10:35,200
Speaker 1: it's like to fight Russia started to set in. That

1455
01:10:35,400 --> 01:10:37,400
Speaker 1: is the case. No one said, I mean, look, the

1456
01:10:37,479 --> 01:10:40,800
Speaker 1: invasion of Russia was a disaster actually for Russia in

1457
01:10:40,840 --> 01:10:45,639
Speaker 1: the initial beginning. But major countries with huge industrial bases,

1458
01:10:45,960 --> 01:10:50,400
Speaker 1: with oil and with nuclear weapons, they can absorb some blows.

1459
01:10:50,560 --> 01:10:52,760
Speaker 1: This has been the history basically of the Russian nation

1460
01:10:53,200 --> 01:10:55,920
Speaker 1: now for over one hundred years. And all of the

1461
01:10:56,000 --> 01:10:59,880
Speaker 1: promised hopes of destroying the Russian economy didn't happen. Creating

1462
01:11:00,040 --> 01:11:02,599
Speaker 1: a coup against Putin, Nope, didn't happen. The only pooh

1463
01:11:02,960 --> 01:11:05,880
Speaker 1: coup that they tried against him completely failed. And the

1464
01:11:05,920 --> 01:11:08,000
Speaker 1: guy and what it is plane crash or something like that,

1465
01:11:08,280 --> 01:11:11,519
Speaker 1: the Wagoner group, Dude, Yeah, he died, So there's no

1466
01:11:11,720 --> 01:11:15,120
Speaker 1: organized political opposition. Putin threw everybody in jail that he

1467
01:11:15,200 --> 01:11:18,080
Speaker 1: wanted to. If anything, he solidified his control over the

1468
01:11:18,160 --> 01:11:20,479
Speaker 1: oligarchs who he thought were getting too friendly with the

1469
01:11:20,560 --> 01:11:22,960
Speaker 1: European powers, and the people are mostly with him. People

1470
01:11:23,000 --> 01:11:26,400
Speaker 1: still continue to join the military, they're paying out high pensions.

1471
01:11:26,600 --> 01:11:28,800
Speaker 1: Their economy is a war machine and it's humming. It's

1472
01:11:28,840 --> 01:11:32,280
Speaker 1: doing okay. You just none of these promises of how

1473
01:11:32,320 --> 01:11:34,799
Speaker 1: they were going to end the war ended up happening,

1474
01:11:34,920 --> 01:11:36,639
Speaker 1: and that was basically going to be the case from

1475
01:11:36,760 --> 01:11:39,240
Speaker 1: day one. Also, looking at this, even from what the

1476
01:11:39,360 --> 01:11:41,920
Speaker 1: Ukrainians are trying to demand, Look how much better off

1477
01:11:41,960 --> 01:11:43,800
Speaker 1: they would have been back in April if they had

1478
01:11:43,840 --> 01:11:45,840
Speaker 1: just taken the peace deal in the first place. The

1479
01:11:46,000 --> 01:11:48,360
Speaker 1: US and the Europeans sold him a false bill of goods.

1480
01:11:48,680 --> 01:11:50,639
Speaker 1: By the way, the Europeans, you know, I don't want

1481
01:11:50,640 --> 01:11:52,960
Speaker 1: to let them off the hook here. All they want,

1482
01:11:53,479 --> 01:11:55,960
Speaker 1: all they want right now is to keep this war

1483
01:11:56,080 --> 01:11:59,920
Speaker 1: going because they need the spigot and to basically key

1484
01:12:00,280 --> 01:12:03,800
Speaker 1: their domestic political crises off to the side. They want

1485
01:12:03,880 --> 01:12:06,760
Speaker 1: the US security umbrella. The longer the conflict goes on

1486
01:12:07,040 --> 01:12:09,320
Speaker 1: for them, it's good because it keeps them relevant in

1487
01:12:09,400 --> 01:12:11,600
Speaker 1: the eyes of the United States. It keeps it a

1488
01:12:11,720 --> 01:12:13,840
Speaker 1: live issue. One of the worst things that could ever

1489
01:12:13,880 --> 01:12:16,120
Speaker 1: happen to the Europeans is if it ends. And right

1490
01:12:16,200 --> 01:12:18,800
Speaker 1: now there's all of these fights between the EU and

1491
01:12:18,920 --> 01:12:22,400
Speaker 1: the US, but withdrawing the US from the eastern flank

1492
01:12:22,880 --> 01:12:26,519
Speaker 1: of NATO, like they need that to keep going. So

1493
01:12:26,600 --> 01:12:29,320
Speaker 1: there's a lot of self interest that's happening here. At

1494
01:12:29,360 --> 01:12:31,600
Speaker 1: the same time, I just want to skip ahead to

1495
01:12:32,720 --> 01:12:35,000
Speaker 1: see four. Just don't want to let the US off

1496
01:12:35,000 --> 01:12:37,440
Speaker 1: the hook. And this is where probably my most sympathetic

1497
01:12:37,760 --> 01:12:40,439
Speaker 1: take from the Ukrainians comes is can we really trust

1498
01:12:40,479 --> 01:12:43,040
Speaker 1: these people? I don't know, man, because here's really what

1499
01:12:43,200 --> 01:12:46,160
Speaker 1: happened with the plan, the original plan that we just

1500
01:12:46,200 --> 01:12:49,599
Speaker 1: showed you leaked. The US confirmed that that plan was real.

1501
01:12:50,160 --> 01:12:54,040
Speaker 1: Some US senators condemned that plan. Then some US senators

1502
01:12:54,080 --> 01:12:56,519
Speaker 1: said that Rubio called them and denied it was the

1503
01:12:56,600 --> 01:13:00,200
Speaker 1: real plan. The White House then denied that denial, and

1504
01:13:00,400 --> 01:13:03,200
Speaker 1: Rubio came full circle and said, yes, it was our

1505
01:13:03,280 --> 01:13:05,760
Speaker 1: real plan. So there is a lot of chaos right

1506
01:13:05,840 --> 01:13:09,360
Speaker 1: that's actually currently happening behind the scenes, and we at

1507
01:13:09,360 --> 01:13:12,160
Speaker 1: the very least have to acknowledge that for the Ukrainians

1508
01:13:12,200 --> 01:13:15,400
Speaker 1: because they're dealing with such a capricious and chaotic administration.

1509
01:13:15,760 --> 01:13:18,360
Speaker 1: This is the fate of their country, and you know,

1510
01:13:18,439 --> 01:13:20,840
Speaker 1: it is a bitter pill to swallow, So I understand it.

1511
01:13:20,920 --> 01:13:22,800
Speaker 1: And they need to get their shit together if they

1512
01:13:22,800 --> 01:13:26,000
Speaker 1: actually want anything to happen, because I'm personally tired of

1513
01:13:26,120 --> 01:13:29,639
Speaker 1: all this BacT Zelenski Comms. Then they buried him, Zelenski Comms.

1514
01:13:29,840 --> 01:13:33,280
Speaker 1: Now we're friends Zelenski Comms, along with all of these

1515
01:13:33,560 --> 01:13:36,240
Speaker 1: EU ministers, and we have the whole Putin summit, and

1516
01:13:36,360 --> 01:13:37,920
Speaker 1: shit doesn't happen, and then we're all we're going to

1517
01:13:37,960 --> 01:13:40,920
Speaker 1: sanction Russia. Actually, so everything is all over the place.

1518
01:13:41,240 --> 01:13:43,120
Speaker 1: And for all the Ukrainians who are crying right now,

1519
01:13:43,640 --> 01:13:45,360
Speaker 1: you guys have all been here before. With Trump, he

1520
01:13:45,439 --> 01:13:48,080
Speaker 1: could change his mind literally at any moment, So don't

1521
01:13:48,600 --> 01:13:51,000
Speaker 1: be too assured that any of this is all that serious.

1522
01:13:51,240 --> 01:13:52,800
Speaker 3: So there are yeah, no, that's true.

1523
01:13:52,880 --> 01:13:55,000
Speaker 2: I mean the other part is like the you know,

1524
01:13:55,160 --> 01:13:59,479
Speaker 2: I mean, the cash grab, disaster capitalism aspect of it

1525
01:13:59,680 --> 01:14:03,600
Speaker 2: is obviously also discussing, you know, and that's that is

1526
01:14:03,680 --> 01:14:06,240
Speaker 2: one of the areas where they're at odds with the Europeans. Too,

1527
01:14:06,360 --> 01:14:09,160
Speaker 2: in terms of how they would use these Russian frozen assets.

1528
01:14:09,520 --> 01:14:13,400
Speaker 2: You know, what they propose in the Trump Deal is

1529
01:14:13,479 --> 01:14:16,200
Speaker 2: basically like you know, some portion of it will be

1530
01:14:16,320 --> 01:14:18,479
Speaker 2: used for reconstruction. The other portion is going to go

1531
01:14:18,520 --> 01:14:21,400
Speaker 2: into a joint investment vehicle with Russia. And even the

1532
01:14:21,439 --> 01:14:24,519
Speaker 2: portion of the Russian assets that are being used for

1533
01:14:24,680 --> 01:14:27,960
Speaker 2: Ukrainian reconstruction are going to be done so led by

1534
01:14:28,240 --> 01:14:30,680
Speaker 2: directed by the US. So, I mean, listen, we know

1535
01:14:30,760 --> 01:14:33,439
Speaker 2: how this administration operates. It's going to be you know,

1536
01:14:33,760 --> 01:14:38,479
Speaker 2: a massive enrichment scheme for whether it's Kushner or Trump's

1537
01:14:38,720 --> 01:14:41,839
Speaker 2: you know, other Trump family members, wit Cooff, his family members,

1538
01:14:42,040 --> 01:14:44,840
Speaker 2: other allies, whatever. Like, we can all see how this

1539
01:14:45,000 --> 01:14:47,360
Speaker 2: is going to go, which is utterly disgusting. Right, So

1540
01:14:47,479 --> 01:14:49,800
Speaker 2: let's not let's not put that to the side. One

1541
01:14:49,840 --> 01:14:52,599
Speaker 2: other aspect of this saga that you alluded to, it's

1542
01:14:52,680 --> 01:14:55,680
Speaker 2: just important to understand the political dynamics here too, is

1543
01:14:56,120 --> 01:14:59,880
Speaker 2: obviously Zelenski has pushed off any sort of elections while

1544
01:15:00,040 --> 01:15:01,800
Speaker 2: the war was going on, saying, hey, we're in a

1545
01:15:01,840 --> 01:15:04,680
Speaker 2: state of emergency, state of war, we can't have elections.

1546
01:15:04,760 --> 01:15:06,479
Speaker 2: We've just got to you know, continue in the direction

1547
01:15:06,600 --> 01:15:09,760
Speaker 2: that we are he is embroiled. Ukraine has long been

1548
01:15:09,800 --> 01:15:12,680
Speaker 2: a corrupt state. Zelenski won initially on a promise to

1549
01:15:12,840 --> 01:15:15,040
Speaker 2: retout corruption, so this has been a deep concern for

1550
01:15:15,080 --> 01:15:18,439
Speaker 2: the Ukrainian people. There is a massive scandal with regard

1551
01:15:18,520 --> 01:15:22,240
Speaker 2: to basically their like atomic energy agency, you know, goes

1552
01:15:22,360 --> 01:15:27,120
Speaker 2: right into Zelenski's innermost circle. Does not directly implicate him,

1553
01:15:27,160 --> 01:15:29,240
Speaker 2: but raises a whole lot of questions about what is

1554
01:15:29,360 --> 01:15:32,360
Speaker 2: going on here. So the other piece is if the

1555
01:15:32,439 --> 01:15:35,160
Speaker 2: war ends, then you're going to have elections and you're

1556
01:15:35,200 --> 01:15:37,720
Speaker 2: going to have somewhat of reckoning around, you know, the

1557
01:15:38,000 --> 01:15:42,320
Speaker 2: corruption scandals that have come out increasingly during this war.

1558
01:15:42,479 --> 01:15:45,680
Speaker 2: So that is another piece of the backdrop here of

1559
01:15:45,960 --> 01:15:48,240
Speaker 2: you know, the calculus from Zelenski himself.

1560
01:15:48,360 --> 01:15:51,360
Speaker 1: You're exactly right, there's been huge political scandals. In fact,

1561
01:15:51,520 --> 01:15:53,800
Speaker 1: Tucker Carlson just tweeted out this morning, the Wall Street

1562
01:15:53,840 --> 01:15:56,640
Speaker 1: Journal is sitting on a major corruption story for one

1563
01:15:56,680 --> 01:16:00,519
Speaker 1: of Ukraine's closest political negotiators, and they won't run it

1564
01:16:00,520 --> 01:16:02,639
Speaker 1: because they don't want to sabotage the deal. I don't

1565
01:16:02,640 --> 01:16:03,920
Speaker 1: know if he's right. You know, we'll see what the

1566
01:16:04,040 --> 01:16:08,280
Speaker 1: journal says. But just wouldn't surprise me as all I'll

1567
01:16:08,320 --> 01:16:08,519
Speaker 1: say it