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Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome

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Speaker 1: to the show, Ridiculous Historians. Thank you so much for

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Speaker 1: tuning in. My name is Ben, My name is nol Ben.

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Speaker 1: You ever had those rolled up ice cream things? I

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Speaker 1: think they're kind of a rip off. I don't really

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Speaker 1: have a sweet tooth. We've I don't know if we've

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Speaker 1: ever talked about this on air, but it's it's the

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Speaker 1: thing that haunts me. I know that I am socially

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Speaker 1: obligated to eat cake, for instance, when it's offer, but

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Speaker 1: left to my own devices, I won't really go for desserts.

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Speaker 1: I'm just I'm sweet enough. I guess well to me.

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Speaker 1: The rolled up ice cream is a classic example of

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Speaker 1: st aisle over substance, form over function. It's this thing

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Speaker 1: like where they do it kind of like they do

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Speaker 1: with the cold stone, where they mush the stuff together

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Speaker 1: on like uh what do they call it? An anti

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Speaker 1: grittle an icy surface of some sort. But with this one,

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Speaker 1: they like just dump it in liquid form and then

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Speaker 1: roll it up with like a paint scraper kind of

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Speaker 1: thing into these little pin wheel things. And they're really

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Speaker 1: hard to eat, and I don't understand the point of it.

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Speaker 1: That's kind of like dipping dots. You know, there's more

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Speaker 1: focus on the form rather than the function. Dippin dots

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Speaker 1: I can hang with, but they did end up sticking

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Speaker 1: together and sort of becoming just a weird icy mass.

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Speaker 1: So I'm not super into those either. My point is

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Speaker 1: just that they're all still ice cream, they're just in

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Speaker 1: different shapes. Oh, speaking of a hundred percent, you know

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Speaker 1: who always gives a percent ridiculous history. It's our pal,

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Speaker 1: you know him, you love them, super producer Casey pegram

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Speaker 1: percent at times. At times I didn't think it's possible.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's some real LaBouche right there. Uh, we're

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Speaker 1: also joined NOL. We didn't talk about this off here,

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Speaker 1: but we're also joy by our pal Matt Frederick over

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Speaker 1: here shaking his head, say no, please don't put me.

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Speaker 1: Matt is literally since we're an audio podcast, literally not.

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Speaker 1: He doesn't want to be on the show today. He's

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Speaker 1: not here because he wants to hear this episode. I

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Speaker 1: think he's just trying to get some work done in

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Speaker 1: a quiet but he's seeking refuge knowing that we're cool

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Speaker 1: and we're not going to throw him out right, We're

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Speaker 1: not gonna snitch on him right now, But before we

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Speaker 1: lose the thread. Here we're talking about desserts, and there's

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Speaker 1: this there's this huge emphasis on novelty and dessert I

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Speaker 1: like that you brought that up. You know. Part of

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Speaker 1: it is like the shape or the way in which

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Speaker 1: something is consumed becomes as important as the actual thing.

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Speaker 1: Like ring pops really just suckers, but people love that

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Speaker 1: you can wear it like a ring, right, or like

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Speaker 1: fruit loops. Apparently all the same flavor, different colors make

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Speaker 1: a brain think otherwise, that's very good. Voyt. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: guess they are all this age. I still don't believe it,

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Speaker 1: but I have been told this. Casey. If you heard

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Speaker 1: anything about this, no, and I feel lied to. If

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Speaker 1: that's the case, you feel I too. Yeah, Well, if

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Speaker 1: that's the case, then this has in fact been Casey.

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Speaker 1: On the case, I feel like, you know what, like

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Speaker 1: blue fruit loops just taste blue? It's true. Why don't

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Speaker 1: you color blind, bend? I am colored deficient. I'm sorry,

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Speaker 1: I'm just winging it at traffic lights. But despite not

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Speaker 1: having a sweet tooth myself, you know, it's hard to

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Speaker 1: live in a world without running into desserts. A long

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Speaker 1: time ago, in a different life, I ran into a

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Speaker 1: Filipino dessert called hollow hollow Have you heard of this?

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Speaker 1: It's a kind of shaved ice or shave ice treat,

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Speaker 1: which is often consumed. I don't know. I feel like

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Speaker 1: it's a summer thing just because it's cold, but that

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Speaker 1: might not be correct. Today's episode is about a specific

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Speaker 1: Japanese dessert that, it turns out, has a much longer

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Speaker 1: history than you might have ever imagined. Absolutely true. Let's

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Speaker 1: just call it what it is. It is the Japanese

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Speaker 1: art of khaki gory. How did I do? Ben? I

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Speaker 1: thought you did pretty well. Yeah, thanks my man. And

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Speaker 1: it dates back uh. Some estimates put it as far

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Speaker 1: back as the tenth or eleventh century. Right, right, kaky

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Speaker 1: gory k a k i g o r I oh

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Speaker 1: has a little thing on the top of a little

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Speaker 1: a lot of the line. Yes, what do you call that?

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Speaker 1: It's not noomout No, those are the dot dots and

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Speaker 1: it's not a schwa And that's another nope, we are

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Speaker 1: striking out here. How do you even google a phonetic

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Speaker 1: symbol like that? You just say the short dashed line

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Speaker 1: that goes over a vowel. You would do line over

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Speaker 1: a vowel Diacritic. There you go. Did you discover anything, Ben,

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Speaker 1: Let's see let's try it line over vowel Diacritic and

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Speaker 1: the results Like casey, we had a drum roll and

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Speaker 1: feel like we've made this a thing. Uh, it is

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Speaker 1: a macron and a I was incorrect. A dire rhesus

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Speaker 1: is two dots placed on top of a vowel. That's

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Speaker 1: not an um law. I feel like that's an um laws.

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Speaker 1: I know that much. That's the German thing, right thing.

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Speaker 1: I know a tiny I know, I know a fraction

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Speaker 1: a macron of German. But we're not here to talk

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Speaker 1: about phonetic symbols than thankfully would we would really poop

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Speaker 1: the bed on that one. We're here to talk about

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Speaker 1: the Japanese art of shaved ice flavors, shaved ice, delicious

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Speaker 1: treat uh, summertime tradish. Yeah. So, as long time listeners

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Speaker 1: may know, I recently visited Japan for the first time ever,

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Speaker 1: and I visited in August. I want to say, I

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Speaker 1: think it was August. And one thing that baffled me,

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Speaker 1: which I did not know going in, was that despite

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Speaker 1: where its position appears to be on a map, Japan

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Speaker 1: is hot a in August. You you'll sweat. Uh, it's

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Speaker 1: it's super humid. It's the perfect time if we're being

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Speaker 1: positive for this. Shaved ice for cockagory for ice cream,

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Speaker 1: and it's often nowadays, right, flavored with syrup and a sweetener, right,

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Speaker 1: like condensed milk. And I appreciate that you said the

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Speaker 1: art of cockagory nol because cockagory is considered sort of

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Speaker 1: a tactic to combat the notorious summer fatigue nowadays. But

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Speaker 1: once upon a time when it first came out, it

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Speaker 1: was only enjoyed by the elite. Right. Where have we

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Speaker 1: heard that before? Elite getting things before regular folks. Oh,

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Speaker 1: it's history. I'm sorry, it's just history in general. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Well it's because it was the required technology, right, And

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Speaker 1: technology always uh you know, kind of flows downhill, right,

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Speaker 1: It starts at the top, and people eventually get the

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Speaker 1: trickle down the crumbs, right. But in this case that

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Speaker 1: absolutely no exception. That is the technology that is something

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Speaker 1: akin to refrigeration. Right. The appearance of it dates all

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Speaker 1: the way back to a period between seven nine and five.

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Speaker 1: The earliest mention of cockagory comes from an author named

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Speaker 1: say Shawnagun and probably mispronouncing that who wrote something called

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Speaker 1: the Pillow Book. I think it's sort of considered a

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Speaker 1: work of of erotica, if I'm not mistaken. I think

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Speaker 1: it was written for her and her alone initially, and

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Speaker 1: it was this kind of account of what was going

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Speaker 1: on in courtly life, um, but then it ended up

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Speaker 1: being circulated and gave a real kind of view into

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Speaker 1: this type of society at the top. And that's where

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Speaker 1: you would hear about these things that the regular folks

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Speaker 1: would not have even been privy to write, like these

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Speaker 1: platters of shaved ice topped with tree nectar, tree sap

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Speaker 1: and beautiful flowers and such. I mean it was very decadent. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: And this book may have never seeing the light of

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Speaker 1: day except for a strange incident. She one day left

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Speaker 1: her book on a cushion that she had left out

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Speaker 1: for a guest who is visiting the court, and the

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Speaker 1: guests found the book and then ran off with it

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Speaker 1: stole the book. That's the only reason we know that

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Speaker 1: Cockagory is this old. The book is a collection of

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Speaker 1: observations and poems and essays about life in the court

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Speaker 1: during this time, and in it the author describes very

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Speaker 1: specifically a dessert made by scraping ice into a metal

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Speaker 1: bowl and then adding kud zoo. And we can compare

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Speaker 1: this with other records from the era. The show shaved

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Speaker 1: ice was also topped with, as you said, nectar of

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Speaker 1: some sort, or honey right, or hydra eneas or if

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Speaker 1: you really want to get fancy crushed plums. Just a

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Speaker 1: little aside, there's a very racy Peter Greenway film from

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Speaker 1: the nineties called The Pillar Book that is kind of

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Speaker 1: an adaptation or work kind of based around this Pillow

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Speaker 1: Book anyway, uh, starring a younger Ewan McGregor. Um not

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Speaker 1: one of his stronger films, but you know, I would

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Speaker 1: check out some of his other stuff. Greenaway did The Cook,

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Speaker 1: The Thief, the Wife, which is fantastic. Case am I

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Speaker 1: misremembering that the Pillow Book itself was a little bit erotic?

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Speaker 1: Or am I thinking of the film? I think you're, well,

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Speaker 1: I'm not familiar with the book itself, so but I'm

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Speaker 1: pretty sure the film is reflecting what the book is.

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Speaker 1: So I think you're I think you're on at least somewhat. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I think so, casey on the case, of course, and

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Speaker 1: weren't there other pillow books. Yeah, I believe pillow book

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Speaker 1: can also refer to a collection of notes which have

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Speaker 1: been curated to show a period of someone's life. This

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Speaker 1: pillow book, however, racy or not racy, does give us

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Speaker 1: the first proof of cockagory. According to Dr Eric C. Roth,

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Speaker 1: pre modern japan historian at the University of Kansas, we

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Speaker 1: can guess, or we can speculate on how people centuries

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Speaker 1: ago would have been able to keep ice icy long

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Speaker 1: enough to make a dessert, right, which is the number

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Speaker 1: one problem, And then how they would um, how they

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Speaker 1: would transport it, and how they would enjoy it. Apparently

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Speaker 1: what they did is they had these special sellers called

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Speaker 1: hi muro, and they would ship ice from these frigid

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Speaker 1: mountains and then they would hold it in these sellers.

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Speaker 1: And you can already see how one would have to

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Speaker 1: be a person to mean yeah, exactly. And I think

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Speaker 1: it was in maybe around the teen hundreds that started

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Speaker 1: getting a little more widely distributed, um because of industrialization,

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Speaker 1: right absolutely, because now transportation links between cities to places

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Speaker 1: like Hokkaido where you know where they can actually harvest ice.

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Speaker 1: Now these insportation routes are much more robust, so when

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Speaker 1: when transit improved, as you said with the Maggie restoration,

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Speaker 1: there were these places called ice water stores that popped

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Speaker 1: up in summer and they just served exclusively this shaved

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Speaker 1: ice thing, which sounds customizable, which I like, you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe crush plumbs, crushed plumbs or like you said, the

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Speaker 1: type of show condensed milk. It reminds me of. Uh.

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Speaker 1: There was a place that I used to go and

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Speaker 1: I was a kid called snow Biz and it was

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Speaker 1: a crushed ice kind of stand and my favorite thing

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Speaker 1: to do was to get You get the flavor base

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Speaker 1: and then you get this like creamy condensed milk that

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Speaker 1: they drizzle over the top, and it really adds to

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Speaker 1: the mouth feel in a very good way. So let's

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Speaker 1: take a closer look at the innovations that helped spread

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Speaker 1: Khaki goori from the you know, from these halls of

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Speaker 1: aristocracy to the Hoi polloid to the common person. There's

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Speaker 1: a food entrepreneur named Kahi Nakagawa who was who figured

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Speaker 1: out how to ship ice harvested from the mountains of

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Speaker 1: Hokkaido to Tokyo at a fraction of the cost that

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Speaker 1: the Imperial court used to used to pay He started

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Speaker 1: uh ice company called Hakodat Ice in eighteen seventy two,

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Speaker 1: and he wasn't alone. There were a lot of ice competitors.

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Speaker 1: As weird as it might sound, this is the age

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Speaker 1: before refrigeration, so you could make this empire based entirely

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Speaker 1: on taking ice from a mountain and moving it somewhere

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Speaker 1: before it melts. Telling more of these ice capades been Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there was the Tokyo Ice Company, the Ayoma Ice Factory,

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Speaker 1: and they began offering artificially made ice in the eighteen eighties.

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Speaker 1: This drove prices down even further. And then a guy

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Speaker 1: named hans A Burro Murakami patents an ice shaving machine

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Speaker 1: in eighteen eighties seven that made it way easier to

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Speaker 1: shave ice. It wasn't his labor intensive and picturing the

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Speaker 1: block of ice on kind of a metal industrial kind

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Speaker 1: of spindle that you crank and then it uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: rubs it up against some sort of grinding surface and

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Speaker 1: then dumps out your nice, snowy shaved ice. Yeah, that

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Speaker 1: sounds that sounds sure. But then things took a turn

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Speaker 1: um in around eighteen fifty three when a United States

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Speaker 1: naval fleet, which was made up of four super deadly

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Speaker 1: warships arrived in Tokyo Bay. And we have an article

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Speaker 1: from Atlas Obscura dot com that talks about this democratization

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Speaker 1: of Kakagory as an indirect result of American gunboat diplomacy.

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Speaker 1: So you have Commodore Matthew C. Perry Um who had

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Speaker 1: a letter in hand from Millard Fillmore Um that was

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Speaker 1: addressed to Emperor COMI of Japan and uh it was

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Speaker 1: entreating him um to end isolationism, this policy that had

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Speaker 1: been in place for over two hundred years that prohibited

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Speaker 1: trading with the West. Right, Michael Booth in his in

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Speaker 1: his work Three Tigers, One Mountain, exploring geopolitics in this area,

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Speaker 1: describes Perry's arrival in Japan as something out of a

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Speaker 1: sci fi alien flick because the ships were larger than

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Speaker 1: anything that many Japanese people had seen before, and citizens

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Speaker 1: in the capital were panicking. They thought this was an

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Speaker 1: existential threat. The Perry expedition was one of the first,

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Speaker 1: but far from the last, exercises. And you know what

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Speaker 1: you described earlier gunboat diplomacy, because they the Western powers

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Speaker 1: really wanted Japan to open up its borders to trade

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Speaker 1: and to what they saw as innovation modernization. Eventually it

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Speaker 1: worked and they had this period of rapid social, economic,

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Speaker 1: and military development. That's where we see these telegraph lines,

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Speaker 1: these railroads, these newly paved roads, and this is when

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Speaker 1: people begin getting more ice directly from Japan because they

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Speaker 1: have better transit. As weird as it sounds, at the time,

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Speaker 1: ice for category was often imported all the way from

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Speaker 1: North America. They called it Boston ice. It took six

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Speaker 1: months to get there. Imagine what that adds to the

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Speaker 1: cost of the dessert. And then after they've got these

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Speaker 1: better roads, that's when those food companies or those entrepreneurs

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Speaker 1: and those competing ice companies get into the game really quick.

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Speaker 1: This is all completely accurate and fascinating. A bit about

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Speaker 1: gunboat diplomacy, talk about weird historical flexes, right, I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's literally like going on this expedition, this diplomatic quote

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Speaker 1: unquote expedition to this foreign land. As you said, the

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Speaker 1: reaction on shore was like, who are these devil creatures coming?

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Speaker 1: You know, pointing this giant cannon in our faces, you know,

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Speaker 1: saying they want east and they want trade. But the

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Speaker 1: implication is or else, right, yeah, oh, very much so.

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Speaker 1: Just like Dennis Reynolds when he's getting people on a boat.

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Speaker 1: It's about the implication. And while gunboat diplomacy has a

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Speaker 1: massive array of unintended consequences, it also had some some

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Speaker 1: positive stuff and one of these was, as you mentioned,

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Speaker 1: the democratization of kakagory. Weirdly enough, this strange burgeoning trade

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Speaker 1: war threat of violence leads to cockagory shops opening in

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Speaker 1: the Japanese capital. And these shops at first are not

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Speaker 1: a huge success because Japanese culture at the time had

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Speaker 1: adopted some Chinese medical traditions, and one of the medical

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Speaker 1: traditions or medical beliefs at the time is that you

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Speaker 1: should not drink cold water, you shouldn't cool your body down.

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Speaker 1: And it's interesting, Japan sort of has a history of this,

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Speaker 1: of reinventing itself right when when made aware of of

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Speaker 1: new things. Um So, these gunboat expeditions, the gunboat diplomacy,

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Speaker 1: while yes, absolutely a kind of puffing of the chest

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Speaker 1: of the US, it made the Japanese aware of modernization

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Speaker 1: of technology that they had not been thus far, and

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Speaker 1: it led to something called the Meiji Restoration um which

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Speaker 1: saw telegraph lines and railroads being laid and just you know,

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Speaker 1: being aware of the outside world and kind of modeling

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Speaker 1: itself in that image, and it made them much more

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Speaker 1: of an international player. And now we see tradition squaring

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Speaker 1: up against innovation, right or progress. At the time, many

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Speaker 1: Japanese people or avoiding these kakagory shops because they're going

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Speaker 1: to use historical traditional methods of cooling down, which would

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Speaker 1: be to eat cold noodles or to have unagi eel

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Speaker 1: with a sweet sauce. And for a while, ice drinks

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Speaker 1: were still seen as kind of sketchy, you know. But

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Speaker 1: by the Meiji twenties as it's called, or the eight nineties,

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Speaker 1: cockagory was increasingly accessible to middle class families and it

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Speaker 1: was increasingly accepted. So cockagory, which could have been destined

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Speaker 1: to fade out as an obscure treat for the aristocracy,

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Speaker 1: gets a new lease on life and new traditions begin

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Speaker 1: to emerge around this treat in the early twentieth century. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it really is kind of the birth of what we

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Speaker 1: know now today. Is like Japanese street food kind of

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Speaker 1: for example, things like taco yaki, which are these delicious,

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Speaker 1: little hush puppy looking things that are filled with octopus

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Speaker 1: and a sweet kind of savory sauce. They're still good.

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Speaker 1: Oh and if anyone's ever in Atlanta, there's a place

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Speaker 1: that very specializes in this kind of stuff. It's called Momooki.

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Speaker 1: It's the sister restaurant at more of a cafe to

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Speaker 1: my favorite sushi joint in town called brush Azakaya, which

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Speaker 1: is Indicator. But they have things like green tea and

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Speaker 1: black sesame soft serve, and they do taco yuki, and

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Speaker 1: they do ramen and all that stuff. But seems to

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Speaker 1: be modeled after this innovation of like smaller bytes and

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Speaker 1: kind of like sweet street foods and things like that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so the availability of this stuff seems to go up

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Speaker 1: and down. You will hear the ice water stores have

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Speaker 1: disappeared from Japanese streets, but you could still get kaiki

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Speaker 1: gorri a ton of eateries, especially during summer, and it

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Speaker 1: appears to have made a strong comeback over the last

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Speaker 1: few years. Time out dot Com reports the specialist shops

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Speaker 1: have been popping up all over town, sometimes getting lines

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Speaker 1: that border on the ridiculous. We're talking about like one

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Speaker 1: thousand customers a day plus. This dessert once relegated the

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Speaker 1: summer is now served year round, and we mentioned at

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Speaker 1: the top of the show, uh, the idea of this

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Speaker 1: being sort of an artisanal thing, um in the same

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Speaker 1: way that sushi might be, right, It's it's not. You know,

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Speaker 1: when we think of shaved ice, it's sort of a

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Speaker 1: little bit of a low rent kind of dessert, and

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Speaker 1: that you have the shaved ice that's usually topped with

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Speaker 1: some sort of really really overly sweet, kind of concentrated

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Speaker 1: fake fruit tasting syrup, right, like blueberry or razzleberry or

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Speaker 1: you know, cotton candy or something horrible like that. Kids

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Speaker 1: love it, but it's not exactly uh fine dining, right,

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Speaker 1: But that's not the case and never was the case

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Speaker 1: with kakagory. Like from the start we mentioned it was

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Speaker 1: sweetened with tree sap and condensed milk, and it was

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Speaker 1: really an art to behold because it had like, you know,

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Speaker 1: fine flowers and was made to be very aesthetically pleasing

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Speaker 1: as well. We have some great examples of some modern,

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Speaker 1: uh super fancy sounding cuckagories from grub Street. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: almost like craft beer. Now. We see so many artisanal

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Speaker 1: takes on this. You will see handmade syrups from grapefruit

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Speaker 1: to honey, yogurt, pana cotta. You'll see flower shaped grapefruit jellies,

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Speaker 1: brulet grapefruit segments, tarragon. Someone just threw some tarragon on there.

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Speaker 1: They feel like, Um, the art of making this stuff

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Speaker 1: is really an art of balancing different flavors to compare

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Speaker 1: and contrast subtly against one another. Not to mention that

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Speaker 1: the water comes from natural springs much of the time. Um,

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Speaker 1: They're all about making the processing the ice in such

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Speaker 1: a way to really contribute to a texture and mouth

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Speaker 1: feel kind of situation. And they use these hand cranked

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Speaker 1: machines rather than automated stuff to get the ice into

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Speaker 1: these perfect layers, and the syrups and all the toppings

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Speaker 1: artifically crafted by hand using very very fine ingredients. And

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Speaker 1: in Japan today you might have some that are flavored

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Speaker 1: with things like red bean paste, which is used. And

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Speaker 1: have you ever had those really cool fish pancakes. They're

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Speaker 1: they're not actually fish flavor. They just shaped like a

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Speaker 1: fish stuff with red bean pastes and with ice cream.

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Speaker 1: So good, right, you can get a yeah, you get

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Speaker 1: a couple of different versions, but they're everywhere. It's one

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Speaker 1: of the things I miss when I come back here

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Speaker 1: to the States. Yeah, well they have them at you

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Speaker 1: can actually get them at Super h Smart Work, which

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Speaker 1: is one of our local grocery store chains. Well it

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Speaker 1: feels local, but they're they're everywhere I think they are. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I didn't realize that until pretty recently. Um. Part of that,

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Speaker 1: you know, fun fact is that I believe for a

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Speaker 1: time it's probably still the case. Georgia has the second

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Speaker 1: largest population of Korean Americans in the country. Well, uh,

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Speaker 1: we are very lucky that is the case because we

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Speaker 1: have some fantastic Korean cuisine, barbecue, barbecue, all of the

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Speaker 1: little sides, like everything about it. If ever make it

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Speaker 1: around here, come out to Buford Highway and to spend

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Speaker 1: a day, spend a couple of days. I I'm so spoiled.

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Speaker 1: I only go to the places that I already know

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Speaker 1: and love. I very rarely venture outside of that. But

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Speaker 1: I really need to. I need to do a good

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Speaker 1: Beufort Highway exploration. And look, we know what you're thinking,

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Speaker 1: you might be saying to yourself and old casey guys,

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Speaker 1: this sounds cool, But when am I going to make

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Speaker 1: it out to Japan? You know, how can I justify

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Speaker 1: getting on a plane and flying for hours just to

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Speaker 1: eat this single dessert. Well, we have good news for you.

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Speaker 1: If you are listening in the United States, cockagory is

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Speaker 1: now one of America's hottest desserts as well. Sweetened ice

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Speaker 1: is popular all over the world. Like I think we

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Speaker 1: all grew up with snow cones things like that, but

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Speaker 1: cockagory is considered distinct because it has these thin sheets

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Speaker 1: of ice. It has the homemade syrup, the toppings that

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Speaker 1: you're talking about, and all the layer like assembly and

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Speaker 1: some of the foodies in food buffs of note in

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Speaker 1: our country today, I've decided to showcase kakagory in their

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Speaker 1: own restaurants. One great example would beat David Chang. Ah man,

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Speaker 1: have you been any David Chang restaurants? Any of the

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Speaker 1: Momofuku spots? Yeah? Yeah, yeah yeah? Which one? Let's see.

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Speaker 1: I went to milk bar. I went to the one

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Speaker 1: that also has fried chicken fuku maybe yeah, Foo's the

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Speaker 1: fried chicken sandwich joint. Uh. And then he's got the

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Speaker 1: noodle bar, which I think is his o G Yeah,

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Speaker 1: one which I have not been too. That's the one

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Speaker 1: I think it's hardest to get you. I've only been

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Speaker 1: to one. It's called sambar, and I only got in

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Speaker 1: because they had like a cancelation. I was seeing a

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Speaker 1: movie in New York right next door and just kind

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Speaker 1: of waltzed in and got a table, and boy was

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Speaker 1: it one of the best meals I've ever had. But Yeah.

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Speaker 1: David Chang famous for his many Momofuku restaurants restaurant group Um,

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Speaker 1: also known for the Netflix series Ugly Delicious, so I'm

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Speaker 1: a huge fan of He had this to say about

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Speaker 1: uh kakagory, or as the Korean version is called pots

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Speaker 1: bing Su. All of these Asian varieties of shaved ice

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Speaker 1: are good, but the Japanese have taken it to another level. Cockagory,

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00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 1: he says, is more refined, and he decided to showcase

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Speaker 1: it at his l a restaurant major domo Um. Then

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Speaker 1: we see a lot of pastry chefs are huge fans

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Speaker 1: of cockagory. Nori Umatsu, pastry chef in the East Village

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Speaker 1: of New York, would wait all year for shave ice

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Speaker 1: season to start at her home in Japan. Now she's

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Speaker 1: working at chat On tea house where she serves cockagory

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Speaker 1: as soon as the subway stations get According to her,

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Speaker 1: hot and sticky and she has Yeah, she has one

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Speaker 1: of those vintage shaved ice machines we were talking about,

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Speaker 1: like the hand cranked one. She serves this stuff until

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Speaker 1: the end of September or until she runs out of

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Speaker 1: ripe peaches. Very nice, I wanted to say, really quickly,

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Speaker 1: I've seen a very cool alternative to this at my

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Speaker 1: local farmers market in Grant Park here in Atlanta, where

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Speaker 1: people actually take a frozen watermelon and shave it down

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00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:15,560
Speaker 1: as though it were shaved ice because it's got so

425
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:17,720
Speaker 1: much water. And you freeze a watermelon and cut it

426
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:19,439
Speaker 1: out in like cubes, I guess you put it in

427
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 1: that same machine hand crank and it becomes watermelon shaved ice,

428
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:27,120
Speaker 1: and it's just delightful. Yeah. And again I can't as

429
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 1: a guy who doesn't really have a sweet tooth, I

430
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:35,120
Speaker 1: cannot recommend shaved ice, cackagory or hollow hollow enough. I mean,

431
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:37,639
Speaker 1: there are different things, but they're both really good and

432
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:42,680
Speaker 1: they hit the spot when it is summer. One last note,

433
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:46,880
Speaker 1: Remember how we said earlier during the eighteen hundreds there

434
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 1: was this huge industry based entirely on harvesting and transporting ice. Well,

435
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:56,880
Speaker 1: guess what it's still around sort of didn't that right? Yeah,

436
00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 1: it is right, and it's getting a mad boost from

437
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:04,160
Speaker 1: this I end bougie kind of rebranding of kukagory that's

438
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 1: happening in Tokyo, um So. According to an article from

439
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 1: The Straits Times, it's becoming quite a fashionable thing for uh,

440
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:18,200
Speaker 1: the purveyors of this high incregory to purchase their ice

441
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 1: from these ice harvesters or ice farmers, and it really

442
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 1: is giving the industry kind of a second life. And

443
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:29,399
Speaker 1: that is apparently because this naturally made ice has just

444
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,560
Speaker 1: a much more refined texture, and that's a really big

445
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 1: part of the modern Cuckagory Niche. I guess you could

446
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:38,159
Speaker 1: say the market is that it has to have this

447
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:43,040
Speaker 1: very fine um consistency, and that's because this ice is

448
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:48,359
Speaker 1: particularly hard and it shaves much thinner because it doesn't

449
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:51,680
Speaker 1: dissolve so quickly. And so in this article, you can

450
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 1: see one of the ice farmers, Mr yu chi Ro Yamamoto,

451
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:59,240
Speaker 1: throw a little bit of shade cheap machine made ice

452
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:03,919
Speaker 1: because making ice naturally is a time consuming and grueling task,

453
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 1: but store owners appreciate it. Consider the case of Koji

454
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 1: more Niche, who struggled when he first opened his Cockagory shop,

455
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:18,440
Speaker 1: but thanks to his emphasis on the type of ice

456
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 1: that's used in his products, he has built a cult

457
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:27,320
Speaker 1: following with his various flavors of cockagory desserts, and he

458
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:30,680
Speaker 1: has seen demands sore. So now this guy one shop

459
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:34,920
Speaker 1: alone harvest a hundred and sixty tons of ice per year,

460
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 1: and he said that more people are entering the market

461
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:40,640
Speaker 1: every time. So it's a good time to be in

462
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,720
Speaker 1: the category business. It's making me really miss my my

463
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:46,960
Speaker 1: local uh snow biz stand from when I was a child.

464
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 1: We go there after a youth group. Ah, boy, was

465
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 1: it every good? So refreshing really is a quite delicious

466
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 1: summary treat far superior to the snow cone if you

467
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 1: ask me. The snow cone is crushed ice therefore kind

468
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 1: of crunchy, just like a squirt of syrup, yea, and

469
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 1: it all goes to the bottom and then you just

470
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 1: end up with like a cone of hard, you know,

471
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 1: oppressive ice. God forbid. You have cold sensitive teeth, my friend,

472
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 1: like I do. It's just a nightmare. How are your

473
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 1: teeth cold sensitive? Now? Can you crunch ice with your

474
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:19,760
Speaker 1: with all your teeth? Sure? Yeah, I could probably I

475
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:22,560
Speaker 1: could probably eat through drywall. Well that's not the same thing, man,

476
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 1: you know, so I do not I consider drywall a dessert.

477
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 1: I do consider cocka gory one for the history books.

478
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 1: And this concludes today's episode, but not our show. We

479
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 1: want to hear from you, folks. What is a regional

480
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 1: dessert that you quite enjoy that you think your fellow

481
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 1: listeners should know more about. You can tell us on Instagram.

482
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:44,280
Speaker 1: You could tell us on Facebook. You can tell us

483
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 1: on Twitter where we are some derivation or variation, I

484
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:51,200
Speaker 1: should say, of ridiculous history. You can also follow our

485
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:54,720
Speaker 1: own personal adventures on the internet. Yeah, if you'd like

486
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 1: to find me on Instagram, where I exist exclusively, you

487
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:01,040
Speaker 1: may hit me up at how now oh Brown And

488
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 1: you can find me and my various extracurriculars shenanigans on

489
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:10,720
Speaker 1: Instagram at Ben Boland or on Twitter at Ben Bolan

490
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:15,280
Speaker 1: hs W. Thanks always to our super producer, Casey Pegram.

491
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:18,600
Speaker 1: Big thanks to a writer dive Matt Frederick, who must

492
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:20,800
Speaker 1: be able to hear this because he okay, he can't

493
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:23,400
Speaker 1: hear it. He's been sitting out there the entire time.

494
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 1: It's theater of the mind. Big thanks to Alex Williams,

495
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 1: who composed our theme, research associate Gabe Luizier, Christopher hasiotas

496
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 1: here in sparit Jonathan Strickland that DVS quiz ster um.

497
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 1: May he you know, Mopi's okay, May he rejoin us

498
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 1: one of these days? I feel like it's it's it's eminent.

499
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:42,080
Speaker 1: I talked to him earlier today, and you know, I

500
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 1: wonder what he would have said about this, about this

501
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:50,880
Speaker 1: cockagory idea. But never fear. Something tells me, some chill

502
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 1: in the wind, tells me we'll be hearing from him

503
00:30:53,600 --> 00:31:00,320
Speaker 1: sooner rather than later. We'll see you next time, folks. Yeah.

504
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:07,640
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from My Heart Radio, visit the I

505
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to

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00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 1: your favorite shows,