WEBVTT - The Judgement [15] 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:03.920 Welcome to Monster DC Sniper, a production of I Heart 0:00:04.000 --> 0:00:07.640 Radio and Tenderfoot TV. The views and opinions expressed in 0:00:07.640 --> 0:00:10.720 this podcast are solely those of the podcast author or 0:00:10.760 --> 0:00:14.200 individuals participating in the podcast, and do not represent those 0:00:14.200 --> 0:00:18.479 of I Heart Media, Tenderfoot TV, or their employees. Listener 0:00:18.520 --> 0:00:25.120 discretion is advised. Alright, the execution of John Alan Mohammed 0:00:25.680 --> 0:00:27.920 has been carried out under the laws of the Commonwealth 0:00:27.960 --> 0:00:33.199 of Virginia. Death was pronounced at nine eleven PM eleven. 0:00:33.240 --> 0:00:37.920 There were no complications. Mr Mohammed was asked if he 0:00:37.960 --> 0:00:41.440 wished to make a last statement. He did not acknowledge 0:00:41.440 --> 0:00:48.160 this or make any statement whatsoever. Statement it was certainly 0:00:48.880 --> 0:00:53.240 a moment of solace for a number of the victims families, 0:00:53.400 --> 0:00:57.040 and it ended the case as far as he was concerned. 0:00:57.080 --> 0:00:59.920 But again, we never really heard from him. We never 0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:02.960 really got a sense of anything from Mohammed. It sort 0:01:03.000 --> 0:01:07.600 of all came to pass rather quietly. In Malvo's case, 0:01:08.160 --> 0:01:11.880 he is sitting in Red Onion Prison in Virginia. It's 0:01:11.920 --> 0:01:16.200 one of the nation's supermax is. It's a very stark facility. 0:01:16.560 --> 0:01:19.240 He's spending twenty three hours a day in a very 0:01:19.240 --> 0:01:24.039 small cell. He has no physical interaction with any other inmates. Yeah, 0:01:24.040 --> 0:01:25.880 he was sent down there, and the problem was he 0:01:25.959 --> 0:01:29.720 was isolated for years. He's not in general population because 0:01:29.800 --> 0:01:33.760 of notoriety. Someone could try to make a name from themselves. Obviously, 0:01:33.760 --> 0:01:35.680 our goal is to do the best we can for 0:01:35.760 --> 0:01:37.600 him and what he wants, and you know what he wants. 0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:40.480 He wants to be out of prison and be able 0:01:40.520 --> 0:01:43.720 to live his life. I had dreamed at one point 0:01:44.200 --> 0:01:48.760 I wanted to do great breaks. This is not what 0:01:49.080 --> 0:01:52.800 I wanted for myself. We're gonna have him soon back 0:01:52.840 --> 0:01:55.600 to us because the rulings of the Supreme Court United States. 0:01:56.320 --> 0:01:59.400 After two separate trials, he was twice sentenced to life 0:01:59.440 --> 0:02:02.040 without par role. But then came a U. S. Supreme 0:02:02.080 --> 0:02:06.960 Court decision declaring life without parole sentences for juveniles unconstitutional, 0:02:07.320 --> 0:02:09.640 and just last year the court said that ruling should 0:02:09.680 --> 0:02:13.800 apply retroactively to cases on appeal. Today, a federal judge 0:02:13.800 --> 0:02:17.160 in Virginia said, because of those two rulings, Malvo must 0:02:17.160 --> 0:02:22.519 get new sentencing hearings. Basically, it's unconstitutional to automatically put 0:02:22.520 --> 0:02:25.000 a juvenile now in jail for the rest of his 0:02:25.040 --> 0:02:29.800 lives without parole. The issue here is not guilt. Juries 0:02:29.840 --> 0:02:31.760 will not be weighing in on whether or not he 0:02:31.840 --> 0:02:35.519 is responsible for the crimes. These would be resentencings that 0:02:35.720 --> 0:02:40.600 would revisit the time that he would spend behind bars. 0:02:41.480 --> 0:02:44.840 A jury can recommend, or a judge can can impose 0:02:44.919 --> 0:02:47.919 a sense other than a mandatory life sense. They could 0:02:47.960 --> 0:02:50.600 give him something less, and maybe he'll be able to 0:02:50.600 --> 0:02:52.280 get out of jail at some point in time in 0:02:52.320 --> 0:02:54.600 his life, to at least be able to spend the 0:02:54.600 --> 0:02:58.480 rest of his life out of jail. Malvo sentences being 0:02:58.560 --> 0:03:02.560 challenged and will be resentenced at some point, and it 0:03:02.600 --> 0:03:07.880 won't be life without parole, which means someday he will 0:03:07.919 --> 0:03:13.359 walk the streets again. And I'm convinced that's going to happen. 0:03:14.760 --> 0:03:18.040 There is a ruthless person on the loose. What un 0:03:18.120 --> 0:03:21.440 nerves this community the most is the randomness of the murders, 0:03:22.240 --> 0:03:26.280 ordinary people doing ordinary things. They killed the five people 0:03:26.280 --> 0:03:29.240 in one day and then went on the rampage for 0:03:29.320 --> 0:03:32.320 the next month. It is quite a mystery. The police 0:03:32.320 --> 0:03:34.600 say they have never had a crime quite like this. 0:03:35.080 --> 0:03:37.880 Be careful, these guys are using weapons that are gonna 0:03:37.920 --> 0:03:43.839 go right straight through our bulletproof vest. From My Heart 0:03:43.920 --> 0:03:48.920 Radio and Tenderfoot TV. This is Monster d C Sniper. 0:03:53.280 --> 0:03:56.880 Since the time of Lee Boyd Malbow's incarceration, the laws 0:03:56.920 --> 0:04:01.680 about sentencing miners have shifted dramatically, so much so that 0:04:01.760 --> 0:04:05.480 a pathway now exists for Malvo to be granted parole 0:04:05.920 --> 0:04:09.880 and potentially walk the streets again. We're going to quickly 0:04:09.920 --> 0:04:13.440 explain the cases which led to this point. It all 0:04:13.480 --> 0:04:16.240 started with a landmarked Supreme Court case in two thousand 0:04:16.279 --> 0:04:19.560 five which rule that juvenile offenders could not be sentenced 0:04:19.560 --> 0:04:24.080 to death. Next, in two thousand twelve, the Supreme Court 0:04:24.160 --> 0:04:27.880 ruled in the case Miller versus Alabama that juvenile offenders 0:04:27.880 --> 0:04:31.440 couldn't be given mandatory minimum sentences of life without the 0:04:31.480 --> 0:04:36.600 possibility of parole. After that ruling, Malvo's attorney submitted a 0:04:36.640 --> 0:04:40.760 petition to Virginia and Maryland to vacate his life sentences. 0:04:41.160 --> 0:04:44.200 They argued that because Malvo was sentenced to life without 0:04:44.240 --> 0:04:48.359 parole with no lower penalties available to the jury, his 0:04:48.440 --> 0:04:55.240 sentencing was no longer constitutionally valid, but the petitions were denied. However, 0:04:55.720 --> 0:04:59.400 in two thousand sixteen, the Supreme Court weighed in again 0:04:59.560 --> 0:05:04.599 on instances for minors Montgomery the Louisiana was a case. 0:05:05.120 --> 0:05:08.479 In its language noted that not only does there have 0:05:08.520 --> 0:05:11.599 to be an alternative to a sentence of life without 0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:16.719 parole for a juvenile sentencing, the judge has to exercise 0:05:16.800 --> 0:05:19.960 some kind of discretion to determine whether or not the 0:05:20.040 --> 0:05:23.880 juvenile is incorrigible and whether or not that juvenile can 0:05:23.960 --> 0:05:28.599 eventually be reformed. This is Mark Petrovich, one of Malvo's 0:05:28.600 --> 0:05:32.360 attorneys in Virginia. He says, based on the Supreme Courts 0:05:32.360 --> 0:05:36.320 two thousand sixteen ruling, Malvo had new grounds to appeal 0:05:36.360 --> 0:05:40.960 his sentences, and this time his appeal made it all 0:05:41.000 --> 0:05:44.120 the way up to the Supreme Court of the United States. 0:05:45.000 --> 0:05:47.039 The goal is going to be too if we can 0:05:47.600 --> 0:05:50.280 reduce the sentence from a life in prison without parole, 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:52.839 you want to go down any anywhere from there. You 0:05:52.839 --> 0:05:55.039 want to go down maybe for an opportunity for parole, 0:05:55.120 --> 0:05:59.920 then maybe a release when he's in the sixties, whatever 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:02.600 can be obtained. He's going to want to have some 0:06:03.240 --> 0:06:06.919 time of freedom. How that I'll play out. We have 0:06:07.000 --> 0:06:11.760 no idea. We asked Washington Post journalist Josh White what 0:06:11.920 --> 0:06:16.120 he thought could happen. Could Melbo actually get the resentencing 0:06:16.200 --> 0:06:21.320 he wanted. You know, certainly a jury in today's world, 0:06:21.480 --> 0:06:25.120 all these years later, could look at him and evaluate 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:28.200 him and where he is today and come up with 0:06:28.360 --> 0:06:32.000 a different outcome than they did before. It's unclear to 0:06:32.040 --> 0:06:34.400 me that a jury would do that, given the nature 0:06:34.400 --> 0:06:36.679 of the crimes and how many victims there were and 0:06:37.400 --> 0:06:41.320 his own public statements about them. Juries are impossible to predict, 0:06:41.560 --> 0:06:46.080 and how this would change anything is unclear. It's certainly 0:06:46.080 --> 0:06:48.599 possible that he could get less time on one of 0:06:48.640 --> 0:06:51.599 these cases, but there are many, many other cases that 0:06:51.720 --> 0:06:55.479 still exists. I think the chances of him being released 0:06:55.480 --> 0:06:58.960 are low, but it's why they go through these processes. 0:06:59.000 --> 0:07:02.239 And you know, the the determination that a minor should 0:07:02.279 --> 0:07:06.440 be given other possible outcomes than just life or death 0:07:06.880 --> 0:07:09.480 is something that the courts have decided is important, and 0:07:10.080 --> 0:07:11.760 you know that I think they'll carry that process out 0:07:11.800 --> 0:07:15.760 as far as it needs to go. On October six, nineteen, 0:07:16.400 --> 0:07:20.880 the Supreme Court heard Mathena versus Malvo. Here's a recording 0:07:20.920 --> 0:07:25.080 from the hearing. Attorney Toby Heightens argued that Malvo's sentencing 0:07:25.600 --> 0:07:33.200 must stand well. Your argument next In Mathena versus Malvo, 0:07:33.440 --> 0:07:37.240 Mr Hyden's Mr. Chief Justice, and may it please the Court. 0:07:38.320 --> 0:07:43.400 Fifteen years ago, Lee Malvo was tried, convicted, and sentenced 0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:47.680 for his role in the DC sniper attacks. Almost a 0:07:47.720 --> 0:07:52.520 decade later, Malvo sought federal habeas relief, relying exclusively on 0:07:52.600 --> 0:07:55.560 the new rule announced by this Court in Miller versus Alabama. 0:07:56.240 --> 0:07:59.440 But Miller's rule does not cover Malvo's case and the 0:07:59.480 --> 0:08:03.640 lower core it's aired in holding otherwise among many other 0:08:03.720 --> 0:08:07.559 legal matters, Heightens asserted that the ruling in Miller versus 0:08:07.600 --> 0:08:12.320 Alabama applied only to mandatory sentences. He argued that the 0:08:12.400 --> 0:08:17.280 Virginia jury hearing Malvo's case had two sentencing options, death 0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:21.720 or life without parole, and send some of malvo sentences 0:08:21.760 --> 0:08:26.720 were not mandatory. He certainly could not retroactively apply the 0:08:26.800 --> 0:08:32.520 Miller ruling to undo those life sentences. One of Melvo's attorneys, 0:08:33.080 --> 0:08:38.400 Danielle Spinelli, also spoke that day. Miller held that before 0:08:38.440 --> 0:08:42.040 imposing life without parole on a juvenile, a sentencer must 0:08:42.120 --> 0:08:46.120 consider how the characteristics of youth counsel against that sentence. 0:08:46.880 --> 0:08:52.080 That individualized sentencing hearing, as Montgomery explained, effectuates the Eighth 0:08:52.120 --> 0:08:55.560 Amendment rule that life without parole is an excessive sentence 0:08:55.600 --> 0:09:01.320 from most juveniles, those who are not permanently incorrigible. Miller 0:09:01.440 --> 0:09:04.880 is not limited to mandatory schemes where life without parole 0:09:05.040 --> 0:09:09.600 is the only possible punishment. It invalidated those schemes because 0:09:09.640 --> 0:09:13.640 they guarantee that courts won't consider whether youth warrants a 0:09:13.640 --> 0:09:18.320 lower sentence, which creates an unacceptable risk of excessive punishment. 0:09:19.200 --> 0:09:22.400 But when a court has the theoretical power to consider 0:09:22.400 --> 0:09:25.480 a lower sentence but doesn't do so, which is what 0:09:25.520 --> 0:09:30.960 happened here, it creates precisely the same risk. Spinelli suggested 0:09:31.000 --> 0:09:34.319 that the language in Miller versus Alabama actually did apply 0:09:34.440 --> 0:09:38.880 to Malbo that is not limited to mandatory sentences. She 0:09:39.080 --> 0:09:42.600 explained how Miller requires that miners must be given an 0:09:42.640 --> 0:09:46.680 option less than life without parole, and since the courts 0:09:46.679 --> 0:09:51.080 did not offer Malvo anything less than that, his sentence 0:09:51.280 --> 0:09:57.200 is unconstitutional. The entire hearing lasted just over an hour. 0:09:57.880 --> 0:10:01.520 When it was finished, gallery umbers left the chamber and 0:10:01.559 --> 0:10:05.640 walked out into the ringing October afternoon. We attended the 0:10:05.679 --> 0:10:08.920 hearing and spoke with some of the observers outside the 0:10:08.920 --> 0:10:13.800 Supreme Court building. I generally think everyone should have a 0:10:13.880 --> 0:10:16.160 parole chance. I don't see what harm it does to 0:10:16.320 --> 0:10:19.560 like see if after a decade somebody can change. I 0:10:19.600 --> 0:10:24.360 think everyone probably has that capacity, especially like since the 0:10:24.400 --> 0:10:27.840 crime was committed at such a young age. Uh, there's 0:10:27.880 --> 0:10:29.760 a lot of there's a lot of change, a lot 0:10:29.760 --> 0:10:32.160 of mellowing out that can happen in the years after. 0:10:33.400 --> 0:10:36.400 You keep hearing the news. He says that children younger 0:10:36.400 --> 0:10:39.920 and younger committing the horrific crimes. But I just feel 0:10:39.920 --> 0:10:42.760 like at that age, especially he was under the influence 0:10:42.800 --> 0:10:47.560 of an older person and possibly you know, not having 0:10:47.559 --> 0:10:54.199 the cognitive powers of like thinking consequence and long term. 0:10:54.440 --> 0:10:56.559 I think there's a lot of anger still about the 0:10:56.720 --> 0:10:59.600 sniper shootings, especially in this area. Like I remember my 0:10:59.640 --> 0:11:02.040 parents telling me they would run from their car in 0:11:02.160 --> 0:11:05.520 the giant or home depot. I think it's hard to 0:11:05.520 --> 0:11:09.000 look fast, anger and hurt. But I've worked with juveniles, 0:11:09.040 --> 0:11:12.280 and I think he was manipulated. I don't think he'll 0:11:12.280 --> 0:11:14.199 ever get out, So it's not about him. It's about 0:11:14.720 --> 0:11:18.079 the supplying retroactively to other juveniles who may have been 0:11:18.120 --> 0:11:21.320 manipulated or caught in a bad circumstance. I want them 0:11:21.360 --> 0:11:24.640 to have a chance to be rehabilitated and get out. 0:11:28.679 --> 0:11:31.480 Most of the people we spoke to outside the Supreme 0:11:31.520 --> 0:11:35.120 Court made a similar point that, regardless of what you 0:11:35.160 --> 0:11:38.880 think about malvo sentence, a ruling in his favor would 0:11:38.920 --> 0:11:44.079 impact countless juvenile offenders nationwide. If the court sided with Malvo, 0:11:44.600 --> 0:11:48.120 inmates who committed crimes as miners would be eligible for 0:11:48.200 --> 0:11:53.679 resentencing and could potentially be granted parole one day. We 0:11:53.800 --> 0:11:56.800 end up always looking at these fantastic cases like Malvo. 0:11:57.200 --> 0:12:00.160 That's not how most of these cases go down to. 0:12:00.240 --> 0:12:04.400 These cases are an armed robbery gone bad, a heavy 0:12:04.520 --> 0:12:10.880 trigger finger, stupid stupid behavior that tragically results in a stupid, 0:12:10.880 --> 0:12:15.960 stupid outcome. My name is Steve Reba. I'm the clinical 0:12:16.000 --> 0:12:18.800 director at the Appeal for Youth Clinic at Emory Law School, 0:12:19.120 --> 0:12:21.880 where we represent kids who have been tried and convicted 0:12:21.920 --> 0:12:25.559 as adults. We take post conviction action and go back 0:12:25.600 --> 0:12:29.040 and try to address their lengthy sentences, most of them 0:12:29.080 --> 0:12:33.000 are life without parole sentences. Riba says that most of 0:12:33.040 --> 0:12:36.520 the juvenile offenders he works with were sentenced by less 0:12:36.559 --> 0:12:39.920 tolerant courts from the eighties and nineties, and while those 0:12:39.960 --> 0:12:43.520 courts were supposed to help and support miners. They ended 0:12:43.559 --> 0:12:47.640 up focusing more on punishment. We lost the idea in 0:12:47.679 --> 0:12:52.040 a sense of the rehabilitative juvenile system that's civil in nature, 0:12:52.160 --> 0:12:55.080 not a criminal system, and we decided just to start 0:12:55.160 --> 0:12:58.960 putting all these youthful offenders into our adult system, giving 0:12:59.040 --> 0:13:03.400 them lengthy prison sentences, making them convicted felons. We still 0:13:03.400 --> 0:13:06.080 have the exact same laws in place. We're still treating 0:13:06.200 --> 0:13:08.840 these children in our adult systems. And and as with 0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:12.400 our criminal justice system in general, it's discriminatory. I mean, 0:13:12.400 --> 0:13:15.480 it focuses on black and brown kids, and they are 0:13:15.559 --> 0:13:17.760 arrested at much higher rates, they are put through our 0:13:17.760 --> 0:13:20.520 criminal justice system, and much higher rates they are given 0:13:20.760 --> 0:13:23.880 larger sentences, and that's what we're still dealing with today. 0:13:24.520 --> 0:13:28.600 Reba says. Supreme Court cases, starting with Roper versus Simmons 0:13:28.600 --> 0:13:31.840 in two thousand five, began to usher in more lenient 0:13:31.920 --> 0:13:36.319 sentences for miners. Reba's appeal for Youth Clinic has since 0:13:36.400 --> 0:13:41.400 overturned numerous lengthy sentences for juvenile offenders, but he says 0:13:41.400 --> 0:13:45.120 there's one big challenge in the language. For many relevant 0:13:45.160 --> 0:13:49.080 Supreme Court rulings, it was determined that miners must be 0:13:49.200 --> 0:13:53.840 sentenced based on two determining factors. So is the juvenile 0:13:53.880 --> 0:13:59.439 one irreparably corrupt? Is the juvenile two permanently incorrigible. This 0:13:59.559 --> 0:14:02.120 is now sort of the lens in which we're supposed 0:14:02.160 --> 0:14:04.760 to look at these offenders to decide if they're quote 0:14:04.800 --> 0:14:08.080 unquote the rarest juveniles who deserve this sort of offense. 0:14:08.880 --> 0:14:13.840 What those terms mean exactly is not clear, but essentially, 0:14:14.400 --> 0:14:19.640 incorrigible means incapable of being reformed or rehabilitated. A lot 0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:23.320 of this focuses on brain science, right, the prefrontal cortex 0:14:23.440 --> 0:14:26.640 and how it develops. This is what controls whether you 0:14:26.680 --> 0:14:29.800 make rash decisions or not, and this develops in your 0:14:29.840 --> 0:14:35.000 early twenties. Literally, we have scientific evidence that these kids 0:14:35.040 --> 0:14:38.000 do not possess right the same brain as an adult 0:14:38.040 --> 0:14:41.440 to control their behavior. And so if we are literally 0:14:41.480 --> 0:14:44.160 talking about a brain that is is not developed, how 0:14:44.160 --> 0:14:46.840 can we treat these kids? How can we, you know, 0:14:46.880 --> 0:14:49.120 put the same level of culpability on them as we 0:14:49.120 --> 0:14:52.560 would an adult. That is really what is foundational or 0:14:52.640 --> 0:14:56.160 underlying the jurisprudence from the Supreme Court from two thousand 0:14:56.240 --> 0:15:00.320 five on. Reba says everyone in his line of work 0:15:00.880 --> 0:15:04.520 has been looking to see what happens with Mathina versus Malvo. 0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:07.440 The Malvo case will be very interesting. It's really hard 0:15:07.480 --> 0:15:10.480 to imagine a series of crimes that are more brutal, 0:15:11.000 --> 0:15:13.400 but at the same time, he's doing it with someone 0:15:13.520 --> 0:15:16.200 he considers to be his father figure, right, I mean, 0:15:16.240 --> 0:15:19.160 it's it's effectively his dad who's telling him to do 0:15:19.240 --> 0:15:21.160 these things. And you have this child who spent a 0:15:21.160 --> 0:15:23.440 good amount of time in foster care and just had really, 0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:26.360 really difficult childhood. You have both sides. You have a 0:15:26.360 --> 0:15:28.760 brutal crime, but also at the same time, this child 0:15:28.800 --> 0:15:31.680 who's being led to do these things by an adult. 0:15:32.480 --> 0:15:34.320 The hope is and I think one day we will 0:15:34.400 --> 0:15:37.960 get to the point where we recognize you cannot give 0:15:38.000 --> 0:15:41.000 a child a life without parole sentence period. Right, This 0:15:41.400 --> 0:15:45.400 irreparably corrupt or permanently incordible idea is just not something 0:15:45.440 --> 0:15:48.080 that's applicable. But that's not where we are now, and 0:15:48.080 --> 0:15:49.720 that's not the court we have right now. So I 0:15:49.720 --> 0:15:52.600 don't I don't think that's happening in Malvo's case. And 0:15:52.760 --> 0:15:56.880 Reba says the scale of Malvo's crimes makes his case 0:15:56.960 --> 0:16:01.920 more complicated. I totally understand the continued anguish and the 0:16:02.000 --> 0:16:05.720 victims families being upset. That is completely natural, and that 0:16:05.840 --> 0:16:08.920 is exactly where the pressures live. If you have a 0:16:09.000 --> 0:16:13.040 contingency of the victims family who are vocal and against it, 0:16:13.360 --> 0:16:17.840 and politically active judges who are elected and prosecutors who 0:16:17.840 --> 0:16:21.040 are elected are going to take notice of that. It's 0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:25.000 just not the right approach to whether we should be 0:16:25.040 --> 0:16:28.440 imposing these life without pearole senses. The right approach is 0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:32.760 clearly that we just need to ban life without pearole senses. 0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:37.240 It's the easiest thing to do. Most of these states 0:16:37.280 --> 0:16:39.640 have parole systems. They can leave it up to these 0:16:39.680 --> 0:16:42.560 parole systems and these individuals who it's their job to 0:16:42.600 --> 0:16:45.280 determine whether these inmates should be released, to determine whether 0:16:45.320 --> 0:16:48.240 they should be released. There's nothing that says if you 0:16:48.480 --> 0:16:51.400 get a life sentence that has the possibility of parole, 0:16:51.800 --> 0:16:54.560 that you'll ever be released. It's the possibility of parole. 0:16:55.320 --> 0:17:00.320 If someone really is irreparably corrupt and permanently incorrigible, our 0:17:00.360 --> 0:17:03.400 parole system should be competent enough to know that person 0:17:03.720 --> 0:17:06.320 is those things and not release him or her. Right, 0:17:07.080 --> 0:17:09.640 I'm not so sure that he won't get out. At 0:17:09.640 --> 0:17:12.000 some point, you know he may not. But there's a 0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:15.480 really important component to being in prison, and it's called 0:17:15.520 --> 0:17:20.160 hope and the idea that you're working towards something, you're 0:17:20.200 --> 0:17:24.119 trying to achieve something. There is a light, however dim 0:17:24.160 --> 0:17:26.960 and however distant, at the end of the tunnel. Those 0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:30.360 are really important things when you know you've been locked up. 0:17:31.240 --> 0:17:36.040 This production team, numerous activist groups, and hundreds of incarcerated 0:17:36.119 --> 0:17:40.200 juvenile offenders across the nation. We're anxiously awaiting the Supreme 0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:44.600 Court decision in the Malvo case. But then back in 0:17:44.680 --> 0:17:49.800 February of this year, something unexpected happened, breaking news from 0:17:49.800 --> 0:17:53.399 the state capital. The DC sniper Lee Boyd Malvo will 0:17:53.520 --> 0:17:56.840 not be re sentenced after a new Virginia law just 0:17:56.880 --> 0:17:59.960 signed by Governor Ralph Northam. The new law states minor 0:18:00.400 --> 0:18:03.399 can be considered for parole after serving twenty years of 0:18:03.400 --> 0:18:09.359 their life sentence. On February, Virginia Governor Rout Northam signed 0:18:09.359 --> 0:18:13.439 a bill into law effectively ending the sentence of life 0:18:13.440 --> 0:18:17.960 without parole for juvenile offenders. As a result, Lee Boyd 0:18:18.000 --> 0:18:21.960 Malvo will be eligible for parole in two thousand two. 0:18:39.320 --> 0:18:42.399 As a result of the new Virginia law, Melvo no 0:18:42.560 --> 0:18:47.360 longer needs a resentencing in Virginia, and so his Supreme 0:18:47.400 --> 0:18:51.200 Court case was dismissed. Here are two of Melvo's attorneys, 0:18:51.520 --> 0:18:56.040 Tom Walsh and Mark Petrovitch. My review of the law 0:18:56.480 --> 0:19:01.440 is that it's fairly straightforward. Any juvenile who is sentenced 0:19:01.760 --> 0:19:06.600 and has served a period of twenty years incarceration is eligible. 0:19:06.960 --> 0:19:12.200 The keyword there is eligible, eligible for consideration for being 0:19:12.240 --> 0:19:15.560 released on parole. That doesn't mean that they get released 0:19:15.680 --> 0:19:18.600 after twenty years. That doesn't mean that there's any kind 0:19:18.640 --> 0:19:21.480 of automatic process. It just means that they're eligible to 0:19:21.520 --> 0:19:26.159 be considered for release on parole. The exact parameters of 0:19:26.200 --> 0:19:30.320 how the new parole scheme and the review process will 0:19:30.359 --> 0:19:34.320 specifically be applied, I think, are still to be determined. 0:19:34.840 --> 0:19:37.159 The one thing to be mindful of with regard to 0:19:37.240 --> 0:19:41.320 Lee is he also faces sentences in Maryland, so we 0:19:41.359 --> 0:19:44.040 don't know how their process will work. But if he 0:19:44.080 --> 0:19:49.200 even receives parole in Virginia, that's not necessarily the end 0:19:49.359 --> 0:19:54.160 of his incarceration. He may still need to FaceTime in Maryland. 0:19:54.680 --> 0:19:57.480 Lee has six life sentences in Maryland, and he has 0:19:57.520 --> 0:20:00.480 foreign Virginia, so he if he was able to be 0:20:00.560 --> 0:20:03.040 paroled of Virginia, he would go to Maryland then and 0:20:03.040 --> 0:20:06.400 then proceed that. I know just reading some articles that 0:20:06.640 --> 0:20:10.560 Maryland is also attacking it sentencing procedures for juveniles, So 0:20:10.720 --> 0:20:14.760 we'll see how that turns out. This development has caused 0:20:14.800 --> 0:20:19.040 an uproar amongst those closest to this story. Whether Malvo 0:20:19.080 --> 0:20:25.199 should be given parole is a deeply polarizing question. You know, 0:20:25.280 --> 0:20:27.520 I don't know if he was ever properly diagnosed. As 0:20:27.520 --> 0:20:30.880 far as I'm concerned, he was a psychopathic, cold blooded 0:20:31.040 --> 0:20:34.840 killer that can never walk the street again. This has 0:20:34.880 --> 0:20:38.800 retired Maryland State Police Lieutenant David Reichenball. No one could 0:20:38.800 --> 0:20:41.560 even think about ever letting this guy out in the public. 0:20:41.920 --> 0:20:44.040 I've been around a long time. I've arrested a lot 0:20:44.080 --> 0:20:46.440 of people, but this is one of those people that 0:20:46.520 --> 0:20:50.119 you just know looking at him, this guy isn't done 0:20:50.520 --> 0:20:54.920 killing if he gets the chance. I know that was 0:20:55.000 --> 0:20:57.800 part of the defense that Mohammed sort of had him 0:20:57.880 --> 0:21:01.480 under his thumb, you know, initial Malvo he was just 0:21:01.600 --> 0:21:06.639 under the influence of Mohammed. Maybe he did initially, but 0:21:06.720 --> 0:21:09.840 I don't buy that for a minute. If you look 0:21:09.880 --> 0:21:12.919 at his story and his story from his day of 0:21:12.960 --> 0:21:17.280 birth forward. Okay, yeah, I feel sorry. He was a 0:21:17.359 --> 0:21:20.199 kid that uh didn't have much of a chance growing up, 0:21:20.680 --> 0:21:23.520 But that didn't make him a cold blooded killer. He 0:21:23.600 --> 0:21:27.720 was a cold blooded killer, and Mohammed may have enhanced 0:21:27.760 --> 0:21:31.000 that and gave him the ability to kill through obtaining 0:21:31.040 --> 0:21:36.880 those weapons. Believe that, But hey, fourteen times in our 0:21:36.960 --> 0:21:39.600 area alone, and I think they were credited with over 0:21:39.680 --> 0:21:44.280 seventeen killings throughout their spree across the country. That's not 0:21:44.320 --> 0:21:46.800 a brainwash kid. That's a killer. That's all that kid 0:21:46.800 --> 0:21:50.639 will ever be, nothing but a cold blooded killer that 0:21:50.680 --> 0:21:52.680 should be kept in a cage the rest of his life. 0:21:55.320 --> 0:21:58.640 But some people still believe that Malvo was a victim, 0:21:58.720 --> 0:22:01.480 that he committed his crimes while under the influence of 0:22:01.560 --> 0:22:04.960 John Mohammed. Most people when they think of the DC 0:22:05.080 --> 0:22:08.639 sniper case, they think of the horrific random shootings in 0:22:08.680 --> 0:22:12.240 the DC area. A lot of people don't understand that 0:22:12.359 --> 0:22:15.920 there's a story that started many years ago, and actually 0:22:16.000 --> 0:22:20.080 the very first victim was Mildred. The second victim I 0:22:20.200 --> 0:22:24.919 believe was Lee Malvo. This is Melissa Moore, host of 0:22:24.960 --> 0:22:28.680 the podcast Happy Face that show is about how Moore 0:22:28.760 --> 0:22:33.160 survived her father Keith Hunter Jesperson, the man who came 0:22:33.200 --> 0:22:37.040 to be known as the Happy Face serial killer. More 0:22:37.119 --> 0:22:41.359 also hosted the lifetime docuseries Monster in My Family. For 0:22:41.440 --> 0:22:46.320 that program, she interviewed numerous high profile killers, including Lee 0:22:46.320 --> 0:22:50.159 Boyd Malvo. So when I talked to serial killers or 0:22:50.280 --> 0:22:55.320 mass killers, they're always sorry that they got caught. This 0:22:55.400 --> 0:22:58.280 is not the case for Lee Malvo. And I can 0:22:58.320 --> 0:23:00.800 sense it that when he talked about of victims to me, 0:23:01.280 --> 0:23:05.040 he was breaking down, and it was a crocodile tears. 0:23:05.080 --> 0:23:07.800 I've heard crocodile tears. You know. My dad is even 0:23:07.840 --> 0:23:11.720 called his murders a lapse of judgment, and killers will 0:23:11.760 --> 0:23:15.320 do that. They will dismiss and minimize what they did. 0:23:15.880 --> 0:23:18.119 Not Lee, when I asked him, like, what would you 0:23:18.119 --> 0:23:21.920 say to the victims, he was hesitant to even say 0:23:21.960 --> 0:23:26.560 anything because there's nothing he could say that could ever 0:23:26.720 --> 0:23:33.440 justify or redeem anything he did. Malvo expressed similar feelings 0:23:33.480 --> 0:23:37.360 in a two thousand twelve interview with Washington Post journalist 0:23:37.400 --> 0:23:43.040 Josh White. I am sorry, I am sorry. I mean 0:23:43.080 --> 0:23:46.520 there it is no way to express that. I mean, 0:23:46.520 --> 0:23:48.840 what am I going to tell him, I'm sorry, I'm 0:23:48.880 --> 0:23:51.919 murdered your own child. I'm sorry I killed your husband. 0:23:52.160 --> 0:23:54.880 I'm sorry I murdered your wife. What do I tell 0:23:54.920 --> 0:23:56.600 the child who was waiting for his father to come 0:23:56.600 --> 0:23:59.720 home and dad never showed up. When I was in 0:24:00.040 --> 0:24:03.200 doing him, he didn't hit on any of the major 0:24:03.320 --> 0:24:06.560 things that I look for with a psychopath, which are 0:24:07.200 --> 0:24:11.720 former animal abuse, blaming other people, thinking that they're above 0:24:11.760 --> 0:24:16.160 other people, that they're grandiose, that they're superior. He didn't 0:24:16.160 --> 0:24:21.359 delight in talking about the crimes. That is something unusual. 0:24:22.000 --> 0:24:24.879 So like when I interviewed like the b t K killer, 0:24:25.400 --> 0:24:27.639 he could give a false sense of like, well, I 0:24:27.680 --> 0:24:30.640 don't want to hurt the victims families anymore by sharing this, 0:24:31.040 --> 0:24:34.119 But then in the next line he would say something 0:24:34.200 --> 0:24:37.600 contradictory to that, with lee that that wasn't the case. 0:24:38.600 --> 0:24:40.679 I mean, I was a monster. If you look up 0:24:40.720 --> 0:24:42.840 the definition, I mean, that's what a monster is. I 0:24:43.200 --> 0:24:45.399 was a google, I was a thief. I I stole 0:24:45.480 --> 0:24:50.040 people's life. I didn't beating just because they said to him. 0:24:50.080 --> 0:24:53.280 I mean, that is the definition of a monster. I 0:24:53.320 --> 0:24:57.200 do believe that he should be released. I do believe 0:24:57.840 --> 0:25:02.679 that he wouldn't be a threat to society. I believe 0:25:02.720 --> 0:25:05.600 this because of speaking to him and knowing that this 0:25:05.800 --> 0:25:10.840 wasn't a thought process on his own. This was ingrained 0:25:10.840 --> 0:25:14.280 in him. He was conditioned, He was brainwashed to become 0:25:14.320 --> 0:25:18.359 a cold, violent killer. And if he had therapy, if 0:25:18.440 --> 0:25:22.119 he had treatment the proper resources, which I don't believe 0:25:22.160 --> 0:25:25.080 he's probably getting in prison, then I believe he would 0:25:25.080 --> 0:25:28.880 actually be an asset. As far as would I ever 0:25:29.480 --> 0:25:32.040 if thirty or forty or fifty years and now if 0:25:32.040 --> 0:25:34.080 I would begin in the street, would I ever kill 0:25:34.200 --> 0:25:36.720 or would I know? I wouldn't do that. Um. But 0:25:36.800 --> 0:25:39.320 as I said, I mean learning to be with myself 0:25:39.320 --> 0:25:43.000 and forgive myself. They're they're different layers. I mean something 0:25:43.040 --> 0:25:45.679 like this, you can't tackle all of it at the 0:25:45.720 --> 0:25:49.040