Speaker 1: Welcome to Monster DC Sniper, a production of I Heart
Speaker 1: Radio and Tenderfoot TV. The views and opinions expressed in
Speaker 1: this podcast are solely those of the podcast author or
Speaker 1: individuals participating in the podcast, and do not represent those
Speaker 1: of I Heart Media, Tenderfoot TV, or their employees. Listener
Speaker 1: discretion is advised. Alright, the execution of John Alan Mohammed
Speaker 1: has been carried out under the laws of the Commonwealth
Speaker 1: of Virginia. Death was pronounced at nine eleven PM eleven.
Speaker 1: There were no complications. Mr Mohammed was asked if he
Speaker 1: wished to make a last statement. He did not acknowledge
Speaker 1: this or make any statement whatsoever. Statement it was certainly
Speaker 1: a moment of solace for a number of the victims families,
Speaker 1: and it ended the case as far as he was concerned.
Speaker 1: But again, we never really heard from him. We never
Speaker 1: really got a sense of anything from Mohammed. It sort
Speaker 1: of all came to pass rather quietly. In Malvo's case,
Speaker 1: he is sitting in Red Onion Prison in Virginia. It's
Speaker 1: one of the nation's supermax is. It's a very stark facility.
Speaker 1: He's spending twenty three hours a day in a very
Speaker 1: small cell. He has no physical interaction with any other inmates. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he was sent down there, and the problem was he
Speaker 1: was isolated for years. He's not in general population because
Speaker 1: of notoriety. Someone could try to make a name from themselves. Obviously,
Speaker 1: our goal is to do the best we can for
Speaker 1: him and what he wants, and you know what he wants.
Speaker 1: He wants to be out of prison and be able
Speaker 1: to live his life. I had dreamed at one point
Speaker 1: I wanted to do great breaks. This is not what
Speaker 1: I wanted for myself. We're gonna have him soon back
Speaker 1: to us because the rulings of the Supreme Court United States.
Speaker 1: After two separate trials, he was twice sentenced to life
Speaker 1: without par role. But then came a U. S. Supreme
Speaker 1: Court decision declaring life without parole sentences for juveniles unconstitutional,
Speaker 1: and just last year the court said that ruling should
Speaker 1: apply retroactively to cases on appeal. Today, a federal judge
Speaker 1: in Virginia said, because of those two rulings, Malvo must
Speaker 1: get new sentencing hearings. Basically, it's unconstitutional to automatically put
Speaker 1: a juvenile now in jail for the rest of his
Speaker 1: lives without parole. The issue here is not guilt. Juries
Speaker 1: will not be weighing in on whether or not he
Speaker 1: is responsible for the crimes. These would be resentencings that
Speaker 1: would revisit the time that he would spend behind bars.
Speaker 1: A jury can recommend, or a judge can can impose
Speaker 1: a sense other than a mandatory life sense. They could
Speaker 1: give him something less, and maybe he'll be able to
Speaker 1: get out of jail at some point in time in
Speaker 1: his life, to at least be able to spend the
Speaker 1: rest of his life out of jail. Malvo sentences being
Speaker 1: challenged and will be resentenced at some point, and it
Speaker 1: won't be life without parole, which means someday he will
Speaker 1: walk the streets again. And I'm convinced that's going to happen.
Speaker 1: There is a ruthless person on the loose. What un
Speaker 1: nerves this community the most is the randomness of the murders,
Speaker 1: ordinary people doing ordinary things. They killed the five people
Speaker 1: in one day and then went on the rampage for
Speaker 1: the next month. It is quite a mystery. The police
Speaker 1: say they have never had a crime quite like this.
Speaker 1: Be careful, these guys are using weapons that are gonna
Speaker 1: go right straight through our bulletproof vest. From My Heart
Speaker 1: Radio and Tenderfoot TV. This is Monster d C Sniper.
Speaker 1: Since the time of Lee Boyd Malbow's incarceration, the laws
Speaker 1: about sentencing miners have shifted dramatically, so much so that
Speaker 1: a pathway now exists for Malvo to be granted parole
Speaker 1: and potentially walk the streets again. We're going to quickly
Speaker 1: explain the cases which led to this point. It all
Speaker 1: started with a landmarked Supreme Court case in two thousand
Speaker 1: five which rule that juvenile offenders could not be sentenced
Speaker 1: to death. Next, in two thousand twelve, the Supreme Court
Speaker 1: ruled in the case Miller versus Alabama that juvenile offenders
Speaker 1: couldn't be given mandatory minimum sentences of life without the
Speaker 1: possibility of parole. After that ruling, Malvo's attorney submitted a
Speaker 1: petition to Virginia and Maryland to vacate his life sentences.
Speaker 1: They argued that because Malvo was sentenced to life without
Speaker 1: parole with no lower penalties available to the jury, his
Speaker 1: sentencing was no longer constitutionally valid, but the petitions were denied. However,
Speaker 1: in two thousand sixteen, the Supreme Court weighed in again
Speaker 1: on instances for minors Montgomery the Louisiana was a case.
Speaker 1: In its language noted that not only does there have
Speaker 1: to be an alternative to a sentence of life without
Speaker 1: parole for a juvenile sentencing, the judge has to exercise
Speaker 1: some kind of discretion to determine whether or not the
Speaker 1: juvenile is incorrigible and whether or not that juvenile can
Speaker 1: eventually be reformed. This is Mark Petrovich, one of Malvo's
Speaker 1: attorneys in Virginia. He says, based on the Supreme Courts
Speaker 1: two thousand sixteen ruling, Malvo had new grounds to appeal
Speaker 1: his sentences, and this time his appeal made it all
Speaker 1: the way up to the Supreme Court of the United States.
Speaker 1: The goal is going to be too if we can
Speaker 1: reduce the sentence from a life in prison without parole,
Speaker 1: you want to go down any anywhere from there. You
Speaker 1: want to go down maybe for an opportunity for parole,
Speaker 1: then maybe a release when he's in the sixties, whatever
Speaker 1: can be obtained. He's going to want to have some
Speaker 1: time of freedom. How that I'll play out. We have
Speaker 1: no idea. We asked Washington Post journalist Josh White what
Speaker 1: he thought could happen. Could Melbo actually get the resentencing
Speaker 1: he wanted. You know, certainly a jury in today's world,
Speaker 1: all these years later, could look at him and evaluate
Speaker 1: him and where he is today and come up with
Speaker 1: a different outcome than they did before. It's unclear to
Speaker 1: me that a jury would do that, given the nature
Speaker 1: of the crimes and how many victims there were and
Speaker 1: his own public statements about them. Juries are impossible to predict,
Speaker 1: and how this would change anything is unclear. It's certainly
Speaker 1: possible that he could get less time on one of
Speaker 1: these cases, but there are many, many other cases that
Speaker 1: still exists. I think the chances of him being released
Speaker 1: are low, but it's why they go through these processes.
Speaker 1: And you know, the the determination that a minor should
Speaker 1: be given other possible outcomes than just life or death
Speaker 1: is something that the courts have decided is important, and
Speaker 1: you know that I think they'll carry that process out
Speaker 1: as far as it needs to go. On October six, nineteen,
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court heard Mathena versus Malvo. Here's a recording
Speaker 1: from the hearing. Attorney Toby Heightens argued that Malvo's sentencing
Speaker 1: must stand well. Your argument next In Mathena versus Malvo,
Speaker 1: Mr Hyden's Mr. Chief Justice, and may it please the Court.
Speaker 1: Fifteen years ago, Lee Malvo was tried, convicted, and sentenced
Speaker 1: for his role in the DC sniper attacks. Almost a
Speaker 1: decade later, Malvo sought federal habeas relief, relying exclusively on
Speaker 1: the new rule announced by this Court in Miller versus Alabama.
Speaker 1: But Miller's rule does not cover Malvo's case and the
Speaker 1: lower core it's aired in holding otherwise among many other
Speaker 1: legal matters, Heightens asserted that the ruling in Miller versus
Speaker 1: Alabama applied only to mandatory sentences. He argued that the
Speaker 1: Virginia jury hearing Malvo's case had two sentencing options, death
Speaker 1: or life without parole, and send some of malvo sentences
Speaker 1: were not mandatory. He certainly could not retroactively apply the
Speaker 1: Miller ruling to undo those life sentences. One of Melvo's attorneys,
Speaker 1: Danielle Spinelli, also spoke that day. Miller held that before
Speaker 1: imposing life without parole on a juvenile, a sentencer must
Speaker 1: consider how the characteristics of youth counsel against that sentence.
Speaker 1: That individualized sentencing hearing, as Montgomery explained, effectuates the Eighth
Speaker 1: Amendment rule that life without parole is an excessive sentence
Speaker 1: from most juveniles, those who are not permanently incorrigible. Miller
Speaker 1: is not limited to mandatory schemes where life without parole
Speaker 1: is the only possible punishment. It invalidated those schemes because
Speaker 1: they guarantee that courts won't consider whether youth warrants a
Speaker 1: lower sentence, which creates an unacceptable risk of excessive punishment.
Speaker 1: But when a court has the theoretical power to consider
Speaker 1: a lower sentence but doesn't do so, which is what
Speaker 1: happened here, it creates precisely the same risk. Spinelli suggested
Speaker 1: that the language in Miller versus Alabama actually did apply
Speaker 1: to Malbo that is not limited to mandatory sentences. She
Speaker 1: explained how Miller requires that miners must be given an
Speaker 1: option less than life without parole, and since the courts
Speaker 1: did not offer Malvo anything less than that, his sentence
Speaker 1: is unconstitutional. The entire hearing lasted just over an hour.
Speaker 1: When it was finished, gallery umbers left the chamber and
Speaker 1: walked out into the ringing October afternoon. We attended the
Speaker 1: hearing and spoke with some of the observers outside the
Speaker 1: Supreme Court building. I generally think everyone should have a
Speaker 1: parole chance. I don't see what harm it does to
Speaker 1: like see if after a decade somebody can change. I
Speaker 1: think everyone probably has that capacity, especially like since the
Speaker 1: crime was committed at such a young age. Uh, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of there's a lot of change, a lot
Speaker 1: of mellowing out that can happen in the years after.
Speaker 1: You keep hearing the news. He says that children younger
Speaker 1: and younger committing the horrific crimes. But I just feel
Speaker 1: like at that age, especially he was under the influence
Speaker 1: of an older person and possibly you know, not having
Speaker 1: the cognitive powers of like thinking consequence and long term.
Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of anger still about the
Speaker 1: sniper shootings, especially in this area. Like I remember my
Speaker 1: parents telling me they would run from their car in
Speaker 1: the giant or home depot. I think it's hard to
Speaker 1: look fast, anger and hurt. But I've worked with juveniles,
Speaker 1: and I think he was manipulated. I don't think he'll
Speaker 1: ever get out, So it's not about him. It's about
Speaker 1: the supplying retroactively to other juveniles who may have been
Speaker 1: manipulated or caught in a bad circumstance. I want them
Speaker 1: to have a chance to be rehabilitated and get out.
Speaker 1: Most of the people we spoke to outside the Supreme
Speaker 1: Court made a similar point that, regardless of what you
Speaker 1: think about malvo sentence, a ruling in his favor would
Speaker 1: impact countless juvenile offenders nationwide. If the court sided with Malvo,
Speaker 1: inmates who committed crimes as miners would be eligible for
Speaker 1: resentencing and could potentially be granted parole one day. We
Speaker 1: end up always looking at these fantastic cases like Malvo.
Speaker 1: That's not how most of these cases go down to.
Speaker 1: These cases are an armed robbery gone bad, a heavy
Speaker 1: trigger finger, stupid stupid behavior that tragically results in a stupid,
Speaker 1: stupid outcome. My name is Steve Reba. I'm the clinical
Speaker 1: director at the Appeal for Youth Clinic at Emory Law School,
Speaker 1: where we represent kids who have been tried and convicted
Speaker 1: as adults. We take post conviction action and go back
Speaker 1: and try to address their lengthy sentences, most of them
Speaker 1: are life without parole sentences. Riba says that most of
Speaker 1: the juvenile offenders he works with were sentenced by less
Speaker 1: tolerant courts from the eighties and nineties, and while those
Speaker 1: courts were supposed to help and support miners. They ended
Speaker 1: up focusing more on punishment. We lost the idea in
Speaker 1: a sense of the rehabilitative juvenile system that's civil in nature,
Speaker 1: not a criminal system, and we decided just to start
Speaker 1: putting all these youthful offenders into our adult system, giving
Speaker 1: them lengthy prison sentences, making them convicted felons. We still
Speaker 1: have the exact same laws in place. We're still treating
Speaker 1: these children in our adult systems. And and as with
Speaker 1: our criminal justice system in general, it's discriminatory. I mean,
Speaker 1: it focuses on black and brown kids, and they are
Speaker 1: arrested at much higher rates, they are put through our
Speaker 1: criminal justice system, and much higher rates they are given
Speaker 1: larger sentences, and that's what we're still dealing with today.
Speaker 1: Reba says. Supreme Court cases, starting with Roper versus Simmons
Speaker 1: in two thousand five, began to usher in more lenient
Speaker 1: sentences for miners. Reba's appeal for Youth Clinic has since
Speaker 1: overturned numerous lengthy sentences for juvenile offenders, but he says
Speaker 1: there's one big challenge in the language. For many relevant
Speaker 1: Supreme Court rulings, it was determined that miners must be
Speaker 1: sentenced based on two determining factors. So is the juvenile
Speaker 1: one irreparably corrupt? Is the juvenile two permanently incorrigible. This
Speaker 1: is now sort of the lens in which we're supposed
Speaker 1: to look at these offenders to decide if they're quote
Speaker 1: unquote the rarest juveniles who deserve this sort of offense.
Speaker 1: What those terms mean exactly is not clear, but essentially,
Speaker 1: incorrigible means incapable of being reformed or rehabilitated. A lot
Speaker 1: of this focuses on brain science, right, the prefrontal cortex
Speaker 1: and how it develops. This is what controls whether you
Speaker 1: make rash decisions or not, and this develops in your
Speaker 1: early twenties. Literally, we have scientific evidence that these kids
Speaker 1: do not possess right the same brain as an adult
Speaker 1: to control their behavior. And so if we are literally
Speaker 1: talking about a brain that is is not developed, how
Speaker 1: can we treat these kids? How can we, you know,
Speaker 1: put the same level of culpability on them as we
Speaker 1: would an adult. That is really what is foundational or
Speaker 1: underlying the jurisprudence from the Supreme Court from two thousand
Speaker 1: five on. Reba says everyone in his line of work
Speaker 1: has been looking to see what happens with Mathina versus Malvo.
Speaker 1: The Malvo case will be very interesting. It's really hard
Speaker 1: to imagine a series of crimes that are more brutal,
Speaker 1: but at the same time, he's doing it with someone
Speaker 1: he considers to be his father figure, right, I mean,
Speaker 1: it's it's effectively his dad who's telling him to do
Speaker 1: these things. And you have this child who spent a
Speaker 1: good amount of time in foster care and just had really,
Speaker 1: really difficult childhood. You have both sides. You have a
Speaker 1: brutal crime, but also at the same time, this child
Speaker 1: who's being led to do these things by an adult.
Speaker 1: The hope is and I think one day we will
Speaker 1: get to the point where we recognize you cannot give
Speaker 1: a child a life without parole sentence period. Right, This
Speaker 1: irreparably corrupt or permanently incordible idea is just not something
Speaker 1: that's applicable. But that's not where we are now, and
Speaker 1: that's not the court we have right now. So I
Speaker 1: don't I don't think that's happening in Malvo's case. And
Speaker 1: Reba says the scale of Malvo's crimes makes his case
Speaker 1: more complicated. I totally understand the continued anguish and the
Speaker 1: victims families being upset. That is completely natural, and that
Speaker 1: is exactly where the pressures live. If you have a
Speaker 1: contingency of the victims family who are vocal and against it,
Speaker 1: and politically active judges who are elected and prosecutors who
Speaker 1: are elected are going to take notice of that. It's
Speaker 1: just not the right approach to whether we should be
Speaker 1: imposing these life without pearole senses. The right approach is
Speaker 1: clearly that we just need to ban life without pearole senses.
Speaker 1: It's the easiest thing to do. Most of these states
Speaker 1: have parole systems. They can leave it up to these
Speaker 1: parole systems and these individuals who it's their job to
Speaker 1: determine whether these inmates should be released, to determine whether
Speaker 1: they should be released. There's nothing that says if you
Speaker 1: get a life sentence that has the possibility of parole,
Speaker 1: that you'll ever be released. It's the possibility of parole.
Speaker 1: If someone really is irreparably corrupt and permanently incorrigible, our
Speaker 1: parole system should be competent enough to know that person
Speaker 1: is those things and not release him or her. Right,
Speaker 1: I'm not so sure that he won't get out. At
Speaker 1: some point, you know he may not. But there's a
Speaker 1: really important component to being in prison, and it's called
Speaker 1: hope and the idea that you're working towards something, you're
Speaker 1: trying to achieve something. There is a light, however dim
Speaker 1: and however distant, at the end of the tunnel. Those
Speaker 1: are really important things when you know you've been locked up.
Speaker 1: This production team, numerous activist groups, and hundreds of incarcerated
Speaker 1: juvenile offenders across the nation. We're anxiously awaiting the Supreme
Speaker 1: Court decision in the Malvo case. But then back in
Speaker 1: February of this year, something unexpected happened, breaking news from
Speaker 1: the state capital. The DC sniper Lee Boyd Malvo will
Speaker 1: not be re sentenced after a new Virginia law just
Speaker 1: signed by Governor Ralph Northam. The new law states minor
Speaker 1: can be considered for parole after serving twenty years of
Speaker 1: their life sentence. On February, Virginia Governor Rout Northam signed
Speaker 1: a bill into law effectively ending the sentence of life
Speaker 1: without parole for juvenile offenders. As a result, Lee Boyd
Speaker 1: Malvo will be eligible for parole in two thousand two.
Speaker 1: As a result of the new Virginia law, Melvo no
Speaker 1: longer needs a resentencing in Virginia, and so his Supreme
Speaker 1: Court case was dismissed. Here are two of Melvo's attorneys,
Speaker 1: Tom Walsh and Mark Petrovitch. My review of the law
Speaker 1: is that it's fairly straightforward. Any juvenile who is sentenced
Speaker 1: and has served a period of twenty years incarceration is eligible.
Speaker 1: The keyword there is eligible, eligible for consideration for being
Speaker 1: released on parole. That doesn't mean that they get released
Speaker 1: after twenty years. That doesn't mean that there's any kind
Speaker 1: of automatic process. It just means that they're eligible to
Speaker 1: be considered for release on parole. The exact parameters of
Speaker 1: how the new parole scheme and the review process will
Speaker 1: specifically be applied, I think, are still to be determined.
Speaker 1: The one thing to be mindful of with regard to
Speaker 1: Lee is he also faces sentences in Maryland, so we
Speaker 1: don't know how their process will work. But if he
Speaker 1: even receives parole in Virginia, that's not necessarily the end
Speaker 1: of his incarceration. He may still need to FaceTime in Maryland.
Speaker 1: Lee has six life sentences in Maryland, and he has
Speaker 1: foreign Virginia, so he if he was able to be
Speaker 1: paroled of Virginia, he would go to Maryland then and
Speaker 1: then proceed that. I know just reading some articles that
Speaker 1: Maryland is also attacking it sentencing procedures for juveniles, So
Speaker 1: we'll see how that turns out. This development has caused
Speaker 1: an uproar amongst those closest to this story. Whether Malvo
Speaker 1: should be given parole is a deeply polarizing question. You know,
Speaker 1: I don't know if he was ever properly diagnosed. As
Speaker 1: far as I'm concerned, he was a psychopathic, cold blooded
Speaker 1: killer that can never walk the street again. This has
Speaker 1: retired Maryland State Police Lieutenant David Reichenball. No one could
Speaker 1: even think about ever letting this guy out in the public.
Speaker 1: I've been around a long time. I've arrested a lot
Speaker 1: of people, but this is one of those people that
Speaker 1: you just know looking at him, this guy isn't done
Speaker 1: killing if he gets the chance. I know that was
Speaker 1: part of the defense that Mohammed sort of had him
Speaker 1: under his thumb, you know, initial Malvo he was just
Speaker 1: under the influence of Mohammed. Maybe he did initially, but
Speaker 1: I don't buy that for a minute. If you look
Speaker 1: at his story and his story from his day of
Speaker 1: birth forward. Okay, yeah, I feel sorry. He was a
Speaker 1: kid that uh didn't have much of a chance growing up,
Speaker 1: But that didn't make him a cold blooded killer. He
Speaker 1: was a cold blooded killer, and Mohammed may have enhanced
Speaker 1: that and gave him the ability to kill through obtaining
Speaker 1: those weapons. Believe that, But hey, fourteen times in our
Speaker 1: area alone, and I think they were credited with over
Speaker 1: seventeen killings throughout their spree across the country. That's not
Speaker 1: a brainwash kid. That's a killer. That's all that kid
Speaker 1: will ever be, nothing but a cold blooded killer that
Speaker 1: should be kept in a cage the rest of his life.
Speaker 1: But some people still believe that Malvo was a victim,
Speaker 1: that he committed his crimes while under the influence of
Speaker 1: John Mohammed. Most people when they think of the DC
Speaker 1: sniper case, they think of the horrific random shootings in
Speaker 1: the DC area. A lot of people don't understand that
Speaker 1: there's a story that started many years ago, and actually
Speaker 1: the very first victim was Mildred. The second victim I
Speaker 1: believe was Lee Malvo. This is Melissa Moore, host of
Speaker 1: the podcast Happy Face that show is about how Moore
Speaker 1: survived her father Keith Hunter Jesperson, the man who came
Speaker 1: to be known as the Happy Face serial killer. More
Speaker 1: also hosted the lifetime docuseries Monster in My Family. For
Speaker 1: that program, she interviewed numerous high profile killers, including Lee
Speaker 1: Boyd Malvo. So when I talked to serial killers or
Speaker 1: mass killers, they're always sorry that they got caught. This
Speaker 1: is not the case for Lee Malvo. And I can
Speaker 1: sense it that when he talked about of victims to me,
Speaker 1: he was breaking down, and it was a crocodile tears.
Speaker 1: I've heard crocodile tears. You know. My dad is even
Speaker 1: called his murders a lapse of judgment, and killers will
Speaker 1: do that. They will dismiss and minimize what they did.
Speaker 1: Not Lee, when I asked him, like, what would you
Speaker 1: say to the victims, he was hesitant to even say
Speaker 1: anything because there's nothing he could say that could ever
Speaker 1: justify or redeem anything he did. Malvo expressed similar feelings
Speaker 1: in a two thousand twelve interview with Washington Post journalist
Speaker 1: Josh White. I am sorry, I am sorry. I mean
Speaker 1: there it is no way to express that. I mean,
Speaker 1: what am I going to tell him, I'm sorry, I'm
Speaker 1: murdered your own child. I'm sorry I killed your husband.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry I murdered your wife. What do I tell
Speaker 1: the child who was waiting for his father to come
Speaker 1: home and dad never showed up. When I was in
Speaker 1: doing him, he didn't hit on any of the major
Speaker 1: things that I look for with a psychopath, which are
Speaker 1: former animal abuse, blaming other people, thinking that they're above
Speaker 1: other people, that they're grandiose, that they're superior. He didn't
Speaker 1: delight in talking about the crimes. That is something unusual.
Speaker 1: So like when I interviewed like the b t K killer,
Speaker 1: he could give a false sense of like, well, I
Speaker 1: don't want to hurt the victims families anymore by sharing this,
Speaker 1: But then in the next line he would say something
Speaker 1: contradictory to that, with lee that that wasn't the case.
Speaker 1: I mean, I was a monster. If you look up
Speaker 1: the definition, I mean, that's what a monster is. I
Speaker 1: was a google, I was a thief. I I stole
Speaker 1: people's life. I didn't beating just because they said to him.
Speaker 1: I mean, that is the definition of a monster. I
Speaker 1: do believe that he should be released. I do believe
Speaker 1: that he wouldn't be a threat to society. I believe
Speaker 1: this because of speaking to him and knowing that this
Speaker 1: wasn't a thought process on his own. This was ingrained
Speaker 1: in him. He was conditioned, He was brainwashed to become
Speaker 1: a cold, violent killer. And if he had therapy, if
Speaker 1: he had treatment the proper resources, which I don't believe
Speaker 1: he's probably getting in prison, then I believe he would
Speaker 1: actually be an asset. As far as would I ever
Speaker 1: if thirty or forty or fifty years and now if
Speaker 1: I would begin in the street, would I ever kill
Speaker 1: or would I know? I wouldn't do that. Um. But
Speaker 1: as I said, I mean learning to be with myself
Speaker 1: and forgive myself. They're they're different layers. I mean something
Speaker 1: like this, you can't tackle all of it at the
Speaker 1: same time, usually be a nervous breakdown a suicid. You
Speaker 1: do it incrementally, piece by piece. But some say that
Speaker 1: even if Malvo could be rehabilitated, and thus deems say
Speaker 1: to walk the streets, that still serves little justice for
Speaker 1: the people he killed, as it relates legally, remorse to
Speaker 1: me for killing six people doesn't really play into parole.
Speaker 1: This is psychologist Anthony Meoli. He worked with Malvo to
Speaker 1: co author his autobiography. It doesn't take away from the
Speaker 1: fact that eight people, at least will never be brought
Speaker 1: back because they cannot. They're dead from his hands and
Speaker 1: his hands only, not John's. And regardless of what level
Speaker 1: of remorse he has, he needs to be held accountable
Speaker 1: for what he did. And for me, life without parole
Speaker 1: is the correct sentence whether he was seven, seventeen, or seventy,
Speaker 1: it still doesn't take away the fact of what he did.
Speaker 1: And there are many people, and I mean many people
Speaker 1: in prison who are serving life without parole for far
Speaker 1: less and just because he's a hundred and seventeen days
Speaker 1: short of his eighteenth birthday doesn't bring back eight people.
Speaker 1: Here's one of the individuals whose life will never be
Speaker 1: the same. Ola Martin Cooksley, the sister of James Martin,
Speaker 1: who was shot and killed on October two, two two.
Speaker 1: At the time, I was thinking, well, he should be
Speaker 1: locked up forever and ever I would like to kind
Speaker 1: of see whether or not he's really changed or or whatever.
Speaker 1: I mean, I forgive him, because while I didn't forgive him,
Speaker 1: it just tore up my own soul. And forgiving him
Speaker 1: gives me peace, so that whatever he does, you know,
Speaker 1: if he does get out some day, or if he
Speaker 1: gets a lesser sentence or something someday, you know, I'm
Speaker 1: not going to feel bitter about it, are angry about it,
Speaker 1: or anything, because you know, I've forgiven him, and I
Speaker 1: know that Jim would have wanted me to forgive him.
Speaker 1: Here's the perspective of Paul Arufa. He was shot on
Speaker 1: September five, two thousand two. If I didn't forgive him,
Speaker 1: then I would feel the anger that I felt at
Speaker 1: the time. And I did feel angry when they when
Speaker 1: he was caught, you know, jeez, let me get my
Speaker 1: hands on him. A lot of anger. But if I
Speaker 1: didn't forgive him, i'd feel that today and I don't
Speaker 1: feel that today, and I haven't felt that for years.
Speaker 1: He hasn't ruined my life, and that part of forgiveness
Speaker 1: is that it just lets you go on with your life.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I can say I've forgiven him, but it
Speaker 1: doesn't mean what he did was okay with me. I
Speaker 1: think he's responsible for what he did. I don't think
Speaker 1: he was brainwashed to the extent that he didn't know
Speaker 1: right from wrong. He knew, absolutely knew that killing people
Speaker 1: wasn't a thing to do and wasn't a right thing.
Speaker 1: There's no question in my mind that he knew that.
Speaker 1: But I do believe he was brainwashed. For lack of
Speaker 1: a better term, I do believe he was under Mohammed's control.
Speaker 1: You can't deny psychologically that there was something to this
Speaker 1: whole thing. I mean, this kid was abandoned. He was
Speaker 1: on his own from the time he was very young.
Speaker 1: He was on the streets on his own. There's no
Speaker 1: doubt that this kid's from a very early point was
Speaker 1: not in the best circumstances to be mentally stable. So
Speaker 1: I believe that's true. Now, the only time I really
Speaker 1: heard him speak was a reporter from the Washington Post
Speaker 1: did an interview with him. Then you can hear his voice,
Speaker 1: and you can hear him say that he was a monster.
Speaker 1: He understands what happened, and I think he does. I
Speaker 1: didn't have a personality to begin when I see that
Speaker 1: there was no there were no stable routes. I was
Speaker 1: unsure of myself, and so he gave me something to
Speaker 1: latch onto and controlled it. It's hard to explain, but
Speaker 1: that's that's just what happened. The only time I actually
Speaker 1: broke it was on two occasions. The first one was
Speaker 1: when he asked me to shoot the pregnant lady and
Speaker 1: I couldn't do it. And the second time was when
Speaker 1: there was a loan in the shooting for like six
Speaker 1: days and we just had an argument. He kicking out
Speaker 1: the car and told me to go about my business
Speaker 1: and then came back to like about three hours later
Speaker 1: to kick me a pile still sitting in the same spot.
Speaker 1: I was a nervous retnor. I get the feeling he
Speaker 1: feels he has to pay a price for it. I
Speaker 1: think the argument is how long a price? And that's
Speaker 1: my question. Has he paid enough of a price? I
Speaker 1: don't think so. Might he get out someday? I'm convinced
Speaker 1: he will, but I don't know when that time is.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's now, and I don't know how
Speaker 1: much to that he would agree with. I get the
Speaker 1: feeling he agrees he has to pay a price, but
Speaker 1: I don't know if he thinks he's already paid it
Speaker 1: enough for not. I don't know the answer to that,
Speaker 1: but I'd like to ask him that. Since going to prison,
Speaker 1: Lee Boyd Malvo has expressed remorse for his actions in
Speaker 1: an outreach to victims and their families. In a two
Speaker 1: thousand twelve interview with Washington Post journalist Josh White, Malvo
Speaker 1: said he was haunted by two specific memories. The first
Speaker 1: one is Mr Franklin's eyes. They're paying trinking, But if
Speaker 1: it is the worst sort of pain I've ever seen
Speaker 1: in my life, his eyes words do not dissist the
Speaker 1: depth in which the fully convey that emotion and what
Speaker 1: I felt when I saw it. You feel like the
Speaker 1: worst piece of scum on the planet. The second is
Speaker 1: Conrad Johnson's mother when I was since Maryland, and she
Speaker 1: had the opportunity to speak for me at that point
Speaker 1: in time to certainly said, that's the very first time
Speaker 1: the immediacy of how my actions, my ignorant actions, affected
Speaker 1: the life of August, that's the first time may be registered.
Speaker 1: But no one has ever none of the victims or
Speaker 1: the surviving loved ones that ever had the opportunity to
Speaker 1: me to confront me. Eventually, Malvo decided to start reaching
Speaker 1: out to his victims. The local police. They went to
Speaker 1: the Red Onion prison and they interviewed Leboyd Malvo and
Speaker 1: he admitted to shooting a man in Hammond, and he
Speaker 1: thought that I had died. This is John Gaida, the
Speaker 1: victims shot in Hammond, Louisiana, on October one, two thousand two.
Speaker 1: He says that about eight years after he was shot,
Speaker 1: he received an apology letter from Malva Sundays Havebruary two
Speaker 1: thousand and ten. Mr Gata, I am truly sorry for
Speaker 1: the pain I caused you and your loved one. I
Speaker 1: was relieved to hear that you suffer no paralyzing injuries
Speaker 1: and that you are alive. Sincerely, Lee Boyd Malvo. And
Speaker 1: then he found it. Yeah, I just kind of confirmed
Speaker 1: becoming new. I'm grateful that he said an apology. I
Speaker 1: would have sent something back, but all people advised against it.
Speaker 1: They just said, you know, just you know, just let
Speaker 1: it lie. But I appreciate that he did that. I
Speaker 1: believe in forgiveness because that's what the Good Lord taught us,
Speaker 1: and that's what we should do. Otherwise we will be
Speaker 1: saying the Large Prayer in vain. There are two ways
Speaker 1: to look at Malvo's actions from prison. Is it possible
Speaker 1: he has truly unwound himself from his past and is
Speaker 1: looking for some degree of genuine redemption, or is it
Speaker 1: more likely that Malvo has been working to create a
Speaker 1: redemption narrative in hopes of getting out of prison someday.
Speaker 1: In two thousand twelve, Malvo gave an interview where he
Speaker 1: shared new information. He suggested that he had been sexually
Speaker 1: abused by John Mohammed. That revelation came as a shock
Speaker 1: too many, including the co author of his autobiography, Anthony Meoli.
Speaker 1: The first inkling I got of that was right around
Speaker 1: two thousand twelve. I believe now here's a man who
Speaker 1: wrote his entire diary. Nowhere in any chapter I have
Speaker 1: nor amended chapters, because he did amend some of the
Speaker 1: things to change things. Nor in any of the conversations
Speaker 1: I had, nor in any of the emails I had,
Speaker 1: nor in any private letter did I have, nor in
Speaker 1: the interview I had with him for sixty six minutes
Speaker 1: that he could have said anything he wanted, did he
Speaker 1: talk about sexual abuse. Ever, it is possible that Mohammed
Speaker 1: really did sexually abuse Malvo, and Malvo just didn't want
Speaker 1: bring it up with me only. It is common for
Speaker 1: survivors of abuse to feel shame and stay silent about
Speaker 1: it for years. Malvo story would be even more confusing
Speaker 1: and tragic if that were the case. But me only
Speaker 1: is afraid that it is all maybe just a ploy
Speaker 1: for sympathy. So I have been writing, emailing, speaking the
Speaker 1: inmates on the phone, and visiting them for a quarter century.
Speaker 1: And I can tell you, just like almost every human being,
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, if you have an
Speaker 1: opportunity to have a better slice at life for yourself,
Speaker 1: chances are you'll take it. And I never put it
Speaker 1: past any inmate. And I have to sometimes look at
Speaker 1: myself in the mirror about this. Hey, am I being
Speaker 1: used for their own personal goal, which is to tell
Speaker 1: their story for whatever purpose it isn't it. It's something
Speaker 1: that you have to be wary of, and in this
Speaker 1: particular case, it's right for that. Meoli says that Melville
Speaker 1: might want to use people to rewrite his story to
Speaker 1: paint him as a more stable and normal person, a
Speaker 1: person more worthy of freedom. It's impossible to know Lee
Speaker 1: Boyd Malvo's true intentions, but late last month he added
Speaker 1: another chapter to his story, The man serving a life
Speaker 1: sentence in prison for his role in the two thousand
Speaker 1: to Sniper's Free that terrorized Washington, d C. Is now
Speaker 1: a married man. On March six, Lee Boyd Malvo married
Speaker 1: Sable Noel Nap at a small ceremony inside Red Onion
Speaker 1: State Prison. Nap is a social activist and granddaughter of
Speaker 1: Bill Nap, a prominent real estate developer in Iowa. We
Speaker 1: reached out to Nap for comment but received no reply.
Speaker 1: Malvo's marriage disable Naps suggests that he intends to build
Speaker 1: a life beyond his prison confines, and that if he
Speaker 1: were released, he might have some sort of support system
Speaker 1: in place. That's something a parole board might view favorably,
Speaker 1: and perhaps it's something that Malvo things could increase his
Speaker 1: chances of getting parole. I had dreams at one point,
Speaker 1: I wanted to do great brinks. I had a lot
Speaker 1: of ti I had a lot of friends who thought,
Speaker 1: you know, you're gonna be known some day. But no
Speaker 1: one would think not for this, not for this, Because
Speaker 1: when I set my mind to something, I always had
Speaker 1: a one point of focus, you know, and he do
Speaker 1: days I was going to school adding it for two days.
Speaker 1: I didn't complain to my classmates. I wouldn't school took
Speaker 1: the same test day, didn't did the best I could.
Speaker 1: I stud themastry life. When my landlord kick me out,
Speaker 1: turn the light off. You know, I did everything I
Speaker 1: could and my best failed. And in life it works
Speaker 1: out like that. Something we would like, the thing that
Speaker 1: we're logical, But if you sit for ten minutes and
Speaker 1: look at your thought process, it's random feelings and thoughts
Speaker 1: about different things you've seen and heard, read and witness.
Speaker 1: We're not logical. We're moved by our deepest sentiments, and
Speaker 1: then for most part we we think about in rational life.
Speaker 1: Late when we look at the world we're living today,
Speaker 1: most people move off that feeling, that sentiment. What we
Speaker 1: see you, whether it's wittingly or unmated, whether we know
Speaker 1: we don't know, whether it's conscious owners and unconscious drives.
Speaker 1: That's what we're gonna ask them. Whatever happens with Malvo,
Speaker 1: his earliest chance of parole is in two at that point,
Speaker 1: twenty years while that passed since he was arrested. That
Speaker 1: means nearly twenty years since the attack that paralyze the nation.
Speaker 1: The way that we live our daily lives. Now, you know,
Speaker 1: we are a much more fearful people. This is journalist
Speaker 1: and historian Garrett Graf. He says that While the DC
Speaker 1: attacks did come to an end, the impact has lingered on.
Speaker 1: Now we see these videos, for instance, of a motorcycle
Speaker 1: backfiring in Times Square and everybody runs for their life.
Speaker 1: The terror threat has shifted from you know, these large
Speaker 1: scale attacks carried out by international groups like al Qaeda,
Speaker 1: like nine eleven, and is much more about almost unpreventable
Speaker 1: attacks on daily life. Mass shootings at schools, at churches,
Speaker 1: at movie theaters, These small scale attacks that are utterly
Speaker 1: devastating thanks to the firepower of assault weapons, and that
Speaker 1: have become just part of daily life in America in
Speaker 1: a way that was unrecognizable or would be unrecognizable to
Speaker 1: the America before Columbine and before nine eleven. Graph says
Speaker 1: that the DC sniper shootings were one of the first
Speaker 1: of these new types of terror attacks. This was not
Speaker 1: a mass shooting in the way that we think of
Speaker 1: mass shootings, but I think it was a big change
Speaker 1: in the way that people sort of thought about their
Speaker 1: safety in public space. Graph also wonders why when we
Speaker 1: look back on the early two thousands, the DC sniper
Speaker 1: story is often forgotten or overlooked. It gets lost for
Speaker 1: a couple of different reasons. I mean, one the suspects
Speaker 1: and the motive end up being just sort of weird,
Speaker 1: and so you know, there was no real political motive
Speaker 1: attached to it. It wasn't part of the terror threat
Speaker 1: that we traditionally thought about at the time in terms
Speaker 1: of Islamic extremism. And then, you know, the sad truth
Speaker 1: of it is, for as many people who were killed
Speaker 1: and injured back then by the DC sniper mass shootings
Speaker 1: are such a regular part of American life now that
Speaker 1: just gets lost in a casualty toll of unthinkable proportions
Speaker 1: in the years since. Well, that may be true for
Speaker 1: the general public, many people directly impacted by the case
Speaker 1: will never forget. The life of every person involved in
Speaker 1: the DC sniper attacks was changed forever, and each of
Speaker 1: those individuals deals with that trauma differently. At first, I
Speaker 1: hated for anybody to say it was God's will, No,
Speaker 1: it was God's wealth, because it just did not resonate
Speaker 1: with me. How could have been God's will? It was
Speaker 1: not God's will. This is Ola Martin Cooksley again, sister
Speaker 1: of sniper victim James Martin, and I still don't think
Speaker 1: it was God's will, But I think that people can
Speaker 1: over override God's will. Sometimes I know that I will
Speaker 1: see Jim again someday, and the older I get, the
Speaker 1: closer I know I'm getting to that day. So um,
Speaker 1: I look at it more like something that happened. It
Speaker 1: changed me, it broke me, But it's not something I
Speaker 1: struggle against the very thought. I mean, I don't scream
Speaker 1: at God or anything anymore like I did right first.
Speaker 1: I don't think there's ever actually closure, because you always
Speaker 1: wonder why, you know, why did this happen? Why? Why him?
Speaker 1: You know, a little boy born in St. Louis, he
Speaker 1: ends up in a grocery store parking lot in Wait
Speaker 1: and Maryland. What could have happened that could have kept
Speaker 1: him from being there? And that kind of thing. So
Speaker 1: it's it's not really closure. I am at peace. Ola
Speaker 1: says it's impossible to completely escape the memories, but she's
Speaker 1: learned how to turn those experiences into positive changes. My
Speaker 1: grandchildren and I have all marched in in marches for
Speaker 1: gun reform and gun laws and things. We continue to
Speaker 1: do that. Even though some of my grandchildren never met Jim,
Speaker 1: they still feel passionate about it. That makes me feel
Speaker 1: very good too, that we can march and we can
Speaker 1: say what we think about that guns shouldn't be on
Speaker 1: the street or anything, especially that kind of gun that
Speaker 1: was a Bushmaster, which he should never have had. Nobody
Speaker 1: should have that kind of a gun for anything. Not
Speaker 1: long after the DC attacks, family members of aid of
Speaker 1: the victims sued Bushmaster Firearms and Bulls Eye Shoot Supply,
Speaker 1: where the rifle was stolen from. At the time, Bull's
Speaker 1: Eye owner Brian borg Gelt said he never knew the
Speaker 1: gun was missing. An a t F investigation discovered that
Speaker 1: the store could not account for over two hundred missing
Speaker 1: guns and revoked bore Gelt's license to sell firearms. The
Speaker 1: lawsuit with Bushmaster was settled out of court, with Bushmaster
Speaker 1: paying two point five million dollars split between the victims families.
Speaker 1: Sonya Wills, the mother of victim Conrad Johnson, spoke to
Speaker 1: w t o P News after the settlement and said quote,
Speaker 1: I think a message was delivered that you should be
Speaker 1: responsible and accountable for the actions of irresponsible people when
Speaker 1: you make these guns and put them in their hands.
Speaker 1: While some got involved in activism, others decided to write
Speaker 1: books after the story was over. None was more controversial
Speaker 1: than the book by Charles Moose, the chief of police
Speaker 1: for Montgomery County at the time of the d C shootings.
Speaker 1: Moose accepted a hefty book deal shortly after the attacks,
Speaker 1: but Moose was criticized for attempting to profit from his
Speaker 1: work as a public officer. The Montgomery County Ethics Commission
Speaker 1: initially rejected an exemption for Moose, saying it's prohibited for
Speaker 1: employees to quote use the prestige of office for private gain.
Speaker 1: Moose published his book anyway, but he ultimately resigned as
Speaker 1: chief of police and moved to Hawaii to work as
Speaker 1: a beat cop. Another person to write about his experience
Speaker 1: was the officer in charge of the takedown, now retired
Speaker 1: Maryland State Police Lieutenant David Reichenball. After retiring, he wrote
Speaker 1: the book in Pursuit The Hunt for the Beltway Snipers.
Speaker 1: I wrote the book primarily because I felt that the
Speaker 1: true story had to be captured as to how we
Speaker 1: got him. We all came together and we were cooperating
Speaker 1: and working with each other like never before. The FBI,
Speaker 1: a t F, Montgomery County, Baltimore City Police Department, Metropolitan
Speaker 1: Police Department, and of course when you work together, you
Speaker 1: break bread together, you maybe drink a beer together. You
Speaker 1: get to know each other, and all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: you're no longer competitors your comrades. Hey, I got your back,
Speaker 1: you got mine, which is the way it's supposed to be.
Speaker 1: Those were one thousand highly dedicated police officers that give
Speaker 1: a damn. And if there's anything that the public needs
Speaker 1: to take out of this is your cops, whether they're
Speaker 1: your local police department, your state, of your federal point
Speaker 1: nine percent of us care. We care about you, we
Speaker 1: care about protecting you, and that's what it's all about.
Speaker 1: Mildred Mohammed now works as a professional public speaker. She
Speaker 1: talks to audiences around the world surviving domestic abuse as
Speaker 1: a once victim who became a survivor and now I
Speaker 1: am a warrior on the issues of domestic abuse and violence.
Speaker 1: I have found that it is important to reach back
Speaker 1: to help others men and women who feel that the
Speaker 1: relationship that they are in is abusive. Eight percent of
Speaker 1: victims do not have physical scars to prove that they
Speaker 1: are victims, although do I choose to concentrate on the
Speaker 1: eight percent, and it is my mission to shift the
Speaker 1: thinking of society to understand that you do not have
Speaker 1: to have physical scars to be a victim or a
Speaker 1: survivor of domestic violence. In the coming weeks, Monster will
Speaker 1: feature a bonus episode about military Mohammad and her message
Speaker 1: to victims around the world. Meanwhile, Lee Boyd Malvo remains
Speaker 1: behind bars at Red Onion State Penitentiary. Has mentioned he
Speaker 1: will be eligible for parole in Virginia in two thousand
Speaker 1: twenty two. Malville has not given a public interview since
Speaker 1: two thousand twelve. However, this team has reached out to
Speaker 1: Malvo and will continue to do so. Finally, the surviving
Speaker 1: victims continue to live on, including John Gaida, the victims
Speaker 1: shot in Hammond, Louisiana in two thousand two. When I
Speaker 1: did go back to work, I found like a prayer
Speaker 1: that I really took to heart, just appreciating everything about life.
Speaker 1: He takes for granted, so many things. Even grass just
Speaker 1: looked amazing to me. It's just like it had a
Speaker 1: new meaning, the blades of grass, which is beautiful. I mean,
Speaker 1: I just couldn't believe I've been shot and I was
Speaker 1: still alive. I just think of the miracle that my
Speaker 1: life was spared and that there must have been a
Speaker 1: reason for sparing me. We're prayerful and Christians, so we
Speaker 1: especially pray for the families who did lose loved ones.
Speaker 1: One of the people to lose a loved one was
Speaker 1: Nelson Rivera, whose wife Lorie and Louis Rivera, was shot
Speaker 1: and killed on October three, two. My life changed completely,
Speaker 1: you know, after seventeen years. It's just it never goes away,
Speaker 1: never goes away. You know. Now I'm a little bit better,
Speaker 1: you know, but I always think about her all the time.
Speaker 1: How my life will be now? Is she's still here? Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, I just thinks to God. You know, Joselyne
Speaker 1: grew up and you know now she's twenty. She helped
Speaker 1: the best for her. I guess that's what her mom wants.
Speaker 1: I have, you know, pictures, I have some clothes. I
Speaker 1: have her her wedding dress. Keep it with me until
Speaker 1: you know, when you're thinking married she wanted to wear.
Speaker 1: You know, something like that that happens to you, you'll
Speaker 1: never forget it. Here's Paul Larufa again, the victims shot
Speaker 1: on September five, two two. I've always said you're never
Speaker 1: over it. Over it in the sense that well, it
Speaker 1: was nothing. I barely remember what happened. It was like
Speaker 1: tripping on the sidewalk. It was just nothing. That's just
Speaker 1: never gonna happen. It doesn't haunt me, and it doesn't
Speaker 1: affect me negatively. I like to think that it affected
Speaker 1: me positively. People say all the time, well lived it today.
Speaker 1: You never know, you could be dead tomorrow. I experienced
Speaker 1: it where it could have ended in a split second.
Speaker 1: So that's something positive that you think about that you
Speaker 1: know it can end any time, so you do make
Speaker 1: it affect how you act. You try to act maybe
Speaker 1: differently than you did before. I've gone on with my
Speaker 1: life and enjoy life, and it just hasn't affected me negatively.
Speaker 1: That's a good thing Larufus has. The anniversary of the
Speaker 1: shooting is a special day every year, September five. My
Speaker 1: brother calls me at ten fifteen at night, UH two
Speaker 1: celebrate my survival because he he's the more outgoing about things.
Speaker 1: My two sisters and my other brother are more in
Speaker 1: the area of they don't like to talk about it
Speaker 1: because they think it hurts me and and and and
Speaker 1: it hurts them to talk about it. But my other
Speaker 1: brother is more understanding of where I am. So my
Speaker 1: wife and I have a toast, and my youngest brother
Speaker 1: calls me and and we celebrate the fact not that
Speaker 1: I got shot at that moment, but that I lived.
Speaker 1: And so he calls me and says, glad you're alive,
Speaker 1: and I say thanks, and we talked for a few minutes,
Speaker 1: and and uh, that is emotional. The stories of these
Speaker 1: survivors are just a few of the thousands of stories
Speaker 1: surrounding the DC sniper saga. While making this podcast, it
Speaker 1: seemed like nearly everyone we boak who had some story
Speaker 1: or connection to the case, whether they lived in the
Speaker 1: DC area at the time and remember having to pump
Speaker 1: gas from behind a blue tarp, or knew someone who
Speaker 1: was affected by the shootings. This was the story that
Speaker 1: impacted the d C area and an entire nation in
Speaker 1: chilling ways, and as we're seeing today, the after effects
Speaker 1: continue to influence the daily lives in uncertain futures of
Speaker 1: countless others. We also learned over the course of producing
Speaker 1: this podcast that the lives of these killers are complex
Speaker 1: as well. There are so many factors involved in their actions.
Speaker 1: But I make sure to never lose sight of the
Speaker 1: fact that the consequences of their actions are devastating for
Speaker 1: victims and their loved ones. We are curious people, perhaps
Speaker 1: morbidly so, we want to know more about the people
Speaker 1: who kill and why they do it. We call the monsters,
Speaker 1: I think because we can't come up with another term
Speaker 1: that captures our shock, fear, and outrage at their actions.
Speaker 1: As a journalist, I will continue to try to explain
Speaker 1: the seemingly unexplainable, and I'll continue to ask you to
Speaker 1: consider all the factors that go into building a life,
Speaker 1: breaking a life, and destroying a life. Maybe when we
Speaker 1: understand these complexities better, we can create a world with
Speaker 1: a little more empathy, the world that's hopefully free of monsters.
Speaker 1: I'm Tony Harris, and this is Monster DC Sniper. Monster
Speaker 1: DC Sniper is a fifteen episode podcast hosted by Tony
Speaker 1: Harris and produced by iHeart Radio and Tenderfoot TV. Matt
Speaker 1: Frederick and Ol Williams our executive producers on behalf of
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio, alongside producers Trevor Young, Ben Kieburn and
Speaker 1: Josh Thain. Payne Lindsay and Donald Albright are executive producers
Speaker 1: on behalf of Tenderfoot TV, alongside producers Meredith Steadman and
Speaker 1: Christina Dana. Original music is by Makeup and Vanity Set.
Speaker 1: If you haven't already, be sure to check out the
Speaker 1: first two seasons at Lanta Monster and Monster the Zodiac Killer.
Speaker 1: If you have questions or comments, email us at Monster
Speaker 1: at i heeart media dot com, or you can call
Speaker 1: us at one eight three three to eight five six
Speaker 1: six six seven. Thanks for listening. Monster d C Sniper
Speaker 1: does not end with today's finale. Be on the lookout
Speaker 1: for upcoming bonus episodes, including an intimate discussion with the
Speaker 1: ex wife of the DC Sniper, Mildrid Mohammed. In the meantime,
Speaker 1: if you missed anything this season, we encourage you to
Speaker 1: go back and re listen to earlier episodes of the show.
Speaker 1: Your reviews make us better, so please leave your feedback
Speaker 1: on Monster DC Sniper. Then if you would tell your
Speaker 1: friends to go find Monster DC Sniper and subscribe now.
Speaker 1: All episodes are available on the I Heart Radio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.