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Speaker 1: I love the Nuggets and I love Jokic. I love

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Speaker 1: him so much. But he does play like he's being

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Speaker 1: controlled by a rat Ratituey style. He plays like he's

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Speaker 1: two kids in a trench coat. He plays like if

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Speaker 1: Airbud became a human.

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Speaker 2: Dude born in sweet World and Welcome to the No

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Speaker 2: Dungks podcast on the Athletic Network. It's Tuesday, May seventh,

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 3: I'm j E.

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Speaker 2: Skeets here in the Classic Factory and alongside me as

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Speaker 2: always tas.

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Speaker 3: Mellie playoff lovers, this was for you.

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Speaker 2: Next to him, it's the Bearded One, a tap Sha

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Speaker 2: hot Boy, Trey Kirby, a hey Yo and over Yonder

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Speaker 2: making the magic happen. Super producer JD. Hello, there he

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Speaker 2: is and we got a special guest today. He's a

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Speaker 2: leading expert in basketball analytics, having worked for the Spurs

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Speaker 2: and Team USA. He's a staff writer at ESPN. He

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Speaker 2: currently teaches sports analytics at the University of Texas, and

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Speaker 2: he's the author of two incredible NBA books, the best

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Speaker 2: selling Sprawlball, which we've all read, and a new book

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Speaker 2: that drops today, Hoop Atlas. It's our good friend Kirk Goldsberry.

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Speaker 2: What's up, Kirk?

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Speaker 4: What is up? Guys? It is so great to be here.

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Speaker 4: Thanks for having me on. I couldn't imagine a better

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Speaker 4: day to be with you guys than Tuesday May seventh.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I do have that, right, Kirk. Today is the

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Speaker 2: official day that people can go buy hoop Atless. Is

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Speaker 2: that correct?

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Speaker 4: That's right? That is right, Skates. Today, Tuesday May seventh

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Speaker 4: is the day. So go right now in another browser

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Speaker 4: window or whatever, just to open up your favorite bookseller

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Speaker 4: and buy Hoop Batless for me.

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Speaker 5: There you go. Please, So you're to turn off our

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Speaker 5: stream whatever you do.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So you're in the car wash. You're in the

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Speaker 2: car wash today? Is that? What's going on here?

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Speaker 5: Kirk?

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Speaker 2: You got no dunks? You got other shows lined up?

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Speaker 4: I'm sure, yeah, we're doing some, but this is my

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Speaker 4: favorite one and this is my top priority. Uh for

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Speaker 4: a very I just like talking hoops and you know,

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Speaker 4: because I have a book coming out and get to

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Speaker 4: do that with some of my best friend in the

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Speaker 4: media space, but especially Trey Kirby, who is just he's

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Speaker 4: just kissed in my boat with that Steal your Face

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Speaker 4: shirt on right now. But it's great to see you guys.

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Speaker 5: Look, I was gonna save the question for later, but

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Speaker 5: do you have a favorite year from The Grateful Dead?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, nineteen seventy four. I prefer the one Drummer era,

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Speaker 4: but the June nineteen seventy four shows des Moine, you know, Boston,

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Speaker 4: Providence whatever. We can get into that track.

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Speaker 5: Me too, man myself, but we both like it when

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Speaker 5: they keep the tempos up. Am I right? I don't

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Speaker 5: know's analytics shirt? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: I just liked for you as look.

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Speaker 5: Like I was one up. Yeah, fast, I'm going to

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Speaker 5: learn that Goldberry is the biggest Lemon fan on earth,

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Speaker 5: which is why task picked his shirt today.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, best day for Lemons, I believe. Nineteen seventy one. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: s August, Yeah for sure.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So Kirk, we'll get into your book a little

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Speaker 2: bit later. But yeah, we had some pretty entertaining playoff

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Speaker 2: games last night. Let's break them down together here, get

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Speaker 2: your takes on those games, these series and the playoffs

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Speaker 2: movie forward. Let's begin with the second game, the Timberwolves

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Speaker 2: stifling the Nuggets in a dominating Game two victory. They're

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Speaker 2: now up to Oh. My first question off of this game, Kirk,

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Speaker 2: to you, is was this the best half, maybe game

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Speaker 2: of defense we've seen all season long from a team

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Speaker 2: when you consider the stakes and what Minnesota did to

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Speaker 2: Denver last night.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think so. I think that's fair to say.

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Speaker 4: And the top of my notes for this game, guys,

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Speaker 4: is three words defense. Defense, defense. The Minnesota Timberwolves were

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Speaker 4: the best defense all year and the stat of the

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Speaker 4: night is pretty basic to me. They held the Denver

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Speaker 4: Nuggets to eighty freaking points. It's twenty twenty four, they're

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Speaker 4: the world champs. Eighty points. I would have never thought

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Speaker 4: that would have happened. I think the Nuggets were to

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Speaker 4: nine during the regular season when they didn't score one hundred.

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Speaker 4: They're now zero to two in this series because they

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Speaker 4: haven't scored one hundred in those games. But what we're

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Speaker 4: seeing from this team is incredible. This is the best

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Speaker 4: defense in the playoffs, that's not close. And the most

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Speaker 4: important thing that I bring up that I haven't seen

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Speaker 4: getting enough attention. They did this defensive masterpiece without Rudy Goflaer,

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Speaker 4: and I just think it goes to show that this

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Speaker 4: is a defensive juggernaut we're watching.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the Wolves defensive effort was so damn good that

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Speaker 2: the NBA put together an overnight three minute sizzle reel

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Speaker 2: on their YouTube page just about defense, just about this

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Speaker 2: swarming defense of poking balls out from Yoki's hands, and

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Speaker 2: obviously Nikhil Alexander Walker smiling on defense, locking up Jamal Murray.

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Speaker 2: I couldn't believe it, Trey. I know you don't love defense, TK,

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Speaker 2: but they had a clip, a deserving clip of the

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Speaker 2: defensive Juggernaut. I watched it, you watched it, and I

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Speaker 2: loved it.

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Speaker 5: Well. Like Kevin Garnett, I saw he was tweeting last night,

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Speaker 5: defense that sells tickets. That's exactly what it was. The

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Speaker 5: Timberwolves were all over the Nuggets from the jump. Kyle

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Speaker 5: Anderson like tipped out a poke, like a poke away

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Speaker 5: out a post stuff from Yokic. Really really early nineteen

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Speaker 5: turnovers for the Nuggets. They had three shot clock violations

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Speaker 5: that felt like there could have been more where they're

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Speaker 5: just playing it late, late, late into the shot clock.

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Speaker 5: Denver look totally flustered, totally unsure. Kirk, if you're charting

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Speaker 5: these on a shot chart, it takes like ten minutes.

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Speaker 5: They're barely even getting shots up.

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Speaker 4: The nut dude, if I made it a Jamal Murray

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Speaker 4: shot chart from last night. I'd have to add a

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Speaker 4: heat pack, bro freaking he was so frustrated and flustered. Literally,

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Speaker 4: when was the last time you've seen this? I know

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Speaker 4: it's kind of funny, but like, these guys are frustrated. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: and credit to Jade McDaniels and Alexander W. Walker. I mean,

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Speaker 4: one of my favorite parts of this team is whether

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Speaker 4: it's Kyle and Anderson nas Reid, obviously Anthony Edwards. These

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Speaker 4: dudes love playing defense, but from the Nuggets perspective, they

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Speaker 4: are frustrated. One of the nerdiest stats I brought to

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Speaker 4: you guys, as the Nuggets had an average separation from

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Speaker 4: close to defenders on threes from just five point two

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Speaker 4: feet when they were shooting threes, and these are really

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Speaker 4: long defenders. That's their shortest average distance on threes all

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Speaker 4: season long. That tells us two things. The Timberwolves are

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Speaker 4: in the right place on defense, and they're playing hard

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Speaker 4: to get to those contests. They're not giving them anything easy.

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Speaker 4: And I think Trey nailed it. Like those shot clock

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Speaker 4: violations for the Denver Nuggets, Like we weren't seeing that

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Speaker 4: last postseason. There was not a game with three shot

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Speaker 4: clock violations. We Wiston Murray run in that two game,

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Speaker 4: that two man games. So again credit to the Minnesota defense.

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Speaker 3: Wow, I'm glad we're starting with the Minnesota defense because

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Speaker 3: that's who deserves all the credit. But at the other side,

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Speaker 3: who are those men playing? There was a two time

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Speaker 3: MVP playing Yokis did not look like himself whatsoever. Even

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Speaker 3: that first possession you mentioned Kyle Anderson poking it from him.

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Speaker 4: That's Kyle Anderson.

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Speaker 3: You should be able to score on Kyle Anderson. That

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Speaker 3: he should easily have a little bit more aggression. He

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Speaker 3: does not look like the player who won MVP. Throughout

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Speaker 3: the team, as he said, Jamal Murray throwing a heat

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Speaker 3: pack onto the floor because they're upset. Obviously with the

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Speaker 3: lack of calls, the.

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Speaker 2: Rest were letting them be physical, yes, and they were

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Speaker 2: taking advantage of Minnesota, and that just kept rattling the

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Speaker 2: Nuggets as the game went on going. Like you could

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Speaker 2: see so many times Jamal Murray was just dribbling and

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Speaker 2: obviously they're all over him, and so he would like

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Speaker 2: sort of throw a bit of a shoulder. There'd be contact,

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Speaker 2: but there would be nothing called, and so he would

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Speaker 2: do it again, and do it again, and the frustration

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Speaker 2: was building.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's where the aggression from Yokichen and Murray had

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Speaker 3: to come from. They had to start playing offense because, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: the Timberwolves were picking them up as many feet as possible.

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Speaker 3: It's a great stat about the three point shot and

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Speaker 3: how that was limited. They it was extended past that,

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Speaker 3: it was extended to mid court. How they were getting

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Speaker 3: after everybody, and Jamal Murray just we can say talk

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Speaker 3: about his injury and how he wasn't himself, how he

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Speaker 3: came back at April fifth, and Michael Malone was clear

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Speaker 3: that it's good he's coming back now because to get

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Speaker 3: into a flow and maybe he still hasn't caught that flow,

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Speaker 3: and that's a problem that he missed so much time.

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Speaker 3: But the fact that they didn't talk to media after

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Speaker 3: the game either. He just went home, and he's been

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Speaker 3: shooting poorly throughout this entire postseason, so that could be

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Speaker 3: the bigger picture. But they're just frustrated and obviously that

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Speaker 3: other team was far better.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they kept saying on the broadcast, Kirk, I guess

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Speaker 2: it was Reggie maybe Jamal Crawford. It feels like there're

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Speaker 2: seven Wolves players out there because they're just rotating like crazy,

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Speaker 2: that help would come on, Jokis'd get back to these

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Speaker 2: three point shooters just taking away everything. Obviously the two

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Speaker 2: man game between Jamal and Jokic. I also felt like

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Speaker 2: every player on the Wolves, at least the perimeter guys,

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Speaker 2: was like Goro from Mortal Kombat, Like they all had

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Speaker 2: four arms. It felt like there was multiple arms on

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Speaker 2: all of these guys. It's just impressive. Do you think

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Speaker 2: the Wolves being up two?

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Speaker 1: Oh?

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Speaker 2: I know, we're like prisoners on the moment, but like,

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Speaker 2: is this the title favorite?

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Speaker 3: Now?

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Speaker 2: Like have they you know, they've obviously completely taken control

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Speaker 2: of this series, but they're six and oh obviously Aunt,

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Speaker 2: we've ever even talked about him so far?

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Speaker 4: What do you think? Yeah? I think so. I mean

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Speaker 4: they've knocked the heavyweight champion of the basketball world down

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Speaker 4: on the canvas twice here in the first round. It

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Speaker 4: just seems like they have asserted themselves as this like

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Speaker 4: two thousand Baltimore Ravens level defense and like it just

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Speaker 4: it feels like who is going to be able to

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Speaker 4: score if they're going to ramp this up? And I

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Speaker 4: go back to what I started with and till I

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Speaker 4: was had it right, Like, where was Jokic last night?

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Speaker 4: You know why they needed him again? Rudy Gobert wasn't

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Speaker 4: out there, one of the most impactful defenders in the

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Speaker 4: NBA over the last ten years wasn't even out there,

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Speaker 4: and they put on this showcase. That's where Nikola Jokicic

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Speaker 4: needed to be. I feel like, you know, the Western

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Speaker 4: Conference deserves a lot of respect. Whether you're talking about

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Speaker 4: the Thunder or the Mavericks, both of those teams have

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Speaker 4: had great runs here. But from what we've seen, they're

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Speaker 4: six and zero and they've just blown Denver off the

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Speaker 4: court in Denver, I think was like thirty three and

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Speaker 4: eight at home. Yeah, they've blown them off the court

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Speaker 4: twice in a row. What else would they have to do?

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Speaker 4: You know, because essentially, guys, there's a three way tie

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Speaker 4: at the top of the West, right, Yeah, so what

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Speaker 4: else would they have to do to become the title favorites?

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Speaker 4: I mean, I think Boston statistically has an edge because

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Speaker 4: they just have an easier path to the championship series.

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Speaker 4: But from who's been playing the best basketball so far

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Speaker 4: in this postseason tournament, it is clearly the Minnesota Timberwolves.

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Speaker 2: From what I've seen, Yeah, and I think what's scary

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Speaker 2: for the Nuggets and their fans and even for the

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Speaker 2: rest of the Western Conference and maybe the Celtics or

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Speaker 2: whoever comes out of the East. Is this feels sustainable?

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Speaker 2: Because when you have a blowout like that, sometimes we go, well,

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Speaker 2: how many threes did they hit? Did they just catch fire?

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Speaker 2: Were they just on fire from three?

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Speaker 4: Oh?

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Speaker 2: Did they just live at the free throw line? You know,

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Speaker 2: it's one of those sort of fluke games and where

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Speaker 2: it's maybe not sustainable. That wasn't the case here. I

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Speaker 2: mean they went thirteen for thirty three on threes. Minnesota

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Speaker 2: did some of those coming in garbage time? If we're

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Speaker 2: being honest, they only shot fourteen total free throws. It

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Speaker 2: wasn't like Ant had like a crazy fifty point game.

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Speaker 2: Wasn't that. It was just lock down defense and everything

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Speaker 2: that I saw last night and we've seen in these

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Speaker 2: two games and really throughout the postseason. How is this

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Speaker 2: not sustainable? You said it, Kirk. They did it all

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Speaker 2: season long. They were one of the best teams in

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Speaker 2: the league record wise, in the West. There it's like

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Speaker 2: no reason we can't see this again. And maybe Malone

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Speaker 2: can figure out something and Jokic is more aggressive or

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Speaker 2: Jamal You know that Lake miraculously heels here. They have

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Speaker 2: a big break between Game two and three. But I

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Speaker 2: don't know his number.

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Speaker 5: Wolves have been so dominating in this series that people

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Speaker 5: are like, maybe the Suns weren't actually bad.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe Matt.

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Speaker 5: Eshfield was cooking. People would be fine in our position.

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Speaker 5: But uh yeah, Denver needs to figure out something. They

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Speaker 5: need to figure it out fast. Number one, they got

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Speaker 5: to match the physicality. They looked scariest in this series,

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Speaker 5: and they look flustered, like Jokic just turning the ball

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Speaker 5: over NonStop. And they got to stop having these slow starts.

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Speaker 5: They had it every game against the Lakers, getting down

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Speaker 5: in the first quarter. It's happened in both first quarters

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Speaker 5: here too. Then they're playing from behind. That's tough to

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Speaker 5: do against the team that makes every possession hard, makes

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Speaker 5: you pump fake every single time you catch the ball,

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Speaker 5: makes you think twice on every single pass. So they

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Speaker 5: got to come out at Denver does game three. That's

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Speaker 5: their season. If they lose Game three, it's jover Kirk.

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Speaker 2: Do you think the league will The league will Maybe?

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Speaker 2: I don't know. Suspendamul Murray for Game three for throwing

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Speaker 2: the pack on the floor. You obviously wasn't you know,

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Speaker 2: penalized last night within the game. But will we just

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Speaker 2: get a suspension? What's your guts say there?

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Speaker 4: I kinda I kind of my gut says no, And

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Speaker 4: my gut is full of Chicago Italian food. So I'm

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Speaker 4: really sorted this morning. But I would say, in all seriousness,

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Speaker 4: I kind of hope not. And you can tell me

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Speaker 4: they he deserves it or whatever, but I want to

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Speaker 4: see one more game. And like Trey says, I if

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Speaker 4: they if they can't win Game three in Minnesota, this

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Speaker 4: is the thing is obviously jover, but I would hate

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Speaker 4: to see, you know, a shorthanded Denver team just just

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Speaker 4: lose that Game three. So the NBA has every right

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Speaker 4: to suspend him. I mean, if this happened in a

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Speaker 4: college game, I would expect the player to get suspended.

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Speaker 4: You don't do that. There's a reason, none of us.

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Speaker 4: I don't think I can remember anybody ever doing that.

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Speaker 4: And it also speaks to the level of frustration for him,

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Speaker 4: and I think Toss pointed that out. He's been cold

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Speaker 4: all playoffs long, and this is just a frustrated team.

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Speaker 4: So whether the NBA does it or not, I think

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Speaker 4: it is a fair question, but they have every right to.

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Speaker 4: Jamal Murray should feel a little bit bad about how

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Speaker 4: he put his team in this situation because that was

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Speaker 4: an embarrassing act, and I'm sure he doesn't feel great

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Speaker 4: about it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it feels like maybe more of a fine will

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Speaker 2: becoming Jamal Murray's way than an actual suspension for Game three.

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Speaker 3: But you shrugged there, Yeah, yeah, I shrugged because Number one,

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Speaker 3: I didn't know that was a heat pack thrown on

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Speaker 3: the floor, and I was shrugging when I saw the

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Speaker 3: Nuggets bend over. Is kcpu bent over to take something

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Speaker 3: and toss it off the floor. Usually that's a shoe.

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Speaker 3: Somebody lost a shoe. I was surprised to see Jamal

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Speaker 3: Murray after the replays and the camera worked by everybody

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Speaker 3: out there on Twitter, at the end of the bench.

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Speaker 3: He's way at the end of the bench and he

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Speaker 3: just tosses the heatpack that has been providing him some

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Speaker 3: sort of assistance on his leg. I guess onto the floor.

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Speaker 3: You just don't see that. I mean, we just well,

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Speaker 3: I'm shrugging because nobody sees anything thrown on the floor

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Speaker 3: unless it's some fan that shouldn't be throwing anything on

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Speaker 3: the floor. So that's that's the part to ridicule Jamal Murray.

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Speaker 3: But I guess it was a I don't know if

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Speaker 3: you can just imagine that it's just a fine or

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Speaker 3: just give a reason that it's just a fine. I

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Speaker 3: guess because it's during a free throw and not a

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Speaker 3: lot is going on. But I mean, there's no reason

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Speaker 3: for him to just toss something on the floor like

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Speaker 3: and then he's obviously pissed. He's pissed that he's shooting

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Speaker 3: thirty seven percent from the floor in twenty six percent

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Speaker 3: from three throughout this postseason. He just ain't himself. I mean,

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Speaker 3: he got outscored now as reed Ni Kaile Alexander. They

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Speaker 3: also hit more buckets than Jamal Murray. I know he's

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Speaker 3: mad and he's mad at the calls, but he's also

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Speaker 3: just mad his team. I suppose you saw Michael Malone

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Speaker 3: want to look like he wanted to fight when he

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Speaker 3: jumped onto the floor there. Anthony Edwards was wanted a

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Speaker 3: call for him, and Michael Malone came on the floor

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Speaker 3: and wanted to call for the Nuggets. Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 3: I know they're all pissed, but there's no reasoning and

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Speaker 3: there's no logic but behind a heat pack or Michael

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Speaker 3: Malone wanting to call that Anthony Edwards wanted as well

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Speaker 3: as it's just it's all baffling that the champs look

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Speaker 3: like that.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, in game one, we were shocked that. Oh

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Speaker 2: my god, when it got into clutch time, it was

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Speaker 2: Minnesota outclassing Denver. Wow, that's that's rare. We don't see

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Speaker 2: that often. That's that's Denver's thing where it's a close

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Speaker 2: game in the final five minutes and it's Yokic Murray

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Speaker 2: time and they take over. But they shocked us in

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Speaker 2: game one, and then in game two, the shocking part

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Speaker 2: was holy crap. The Nuggets were flustered. Michael Malone, how

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Speaker 2: did he not get a tech there? Kirk when he

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Speaker 2: stepped to Mark David, I think Mark Davis wanted to

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Speaker 2: throw down a little bit. He sort of like square

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Speaker 2: a little bit.

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Speaker 4: It's a good thing he didn't set an illegal screen

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Speaker 4: there because it definitely, yes, we'll get to that.

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Speaker 1: The.

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Speaker 3: Heads or coaches fighting.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, but it was Denver like losing their heads

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Speaker 2: here for sure, and Jamal Murray. I I think a

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Speaker 2: fine will be coming. I don't think he'll be suspended

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Speaker 2: for Game three. I think he should have addressed the media.

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Speaker 2: I think he could have even done the whole like

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Speaker 2: it was an accident, slipped out of my hand, whatever

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Speaker 2: he wanted to come up with. But for him to

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Speaker 2: not even address the media, it doesn't really help your

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Speaker 2: case now that you know you're sorry or apologetic or something.

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Speaker 3: Or the chances out of the Denver Nuggets, he did

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Speaker 3: it towards the end of the Lakers Series two. He

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Speaker 3: just left. Yeah, yeah, he just didn't talk after not

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Speaker 3: playing well. So there's something going on with Jamal Murray

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Speaker 3: that he's just frustrated with. He's just not happy that

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Speaker 3: he can't be himself.

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Speaker 2: I will say the Wolves players Kirk are saying all

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Speaker 2: the right things. I think right now despite going up

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Speaker 2: to oh Like, they're they're feeling good, they're confident. You're

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Speaker 2: led by Anthony Edwards, Like this guy's the most charismatic

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Speaker 2: guy in the league. But here's what Kat said. We're

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Speaker 2: extremely honored and blessed that we have this opportunity to

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Speaker 2: go up too, would go home. We're humble in this approach.

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Speaker 2: Even Anthony Edwards, we'd made shots, they didn't. That's the

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Speaker 2: defending champs over there, so they're not gonna go come

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Speaker 2: out and play like that again in game three. These

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Speaker 2: guys are not giving them any bulletin boarder material. They're not,

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Speaker 2: you know, dancing on their graves just quite yet. I

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Speaker 2: like how they're approaching this. But game three on I

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Speaker 2: guess Friday night. I don't think they played till Friday night.

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Speaker 2: I mean, that place is going to be going nuts.

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Speaker 2: You're in Chicago, you should probably go to over Minnesota

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Speaker 2: for a game.

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Speaker 4: I would love to. I'm so happy for that fan base.

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Speaker 4: And you know what, Anthony Edwards, you hit it on

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Speaker 4: the head. I do love how he has handled himself.

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Speaker 4: I mean, this dude is twenty two and his sort

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Speaker 4: of leadership style guys is really cool, like saying the

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Speaker 4: right things to the media, you know, saying, you know,

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Speaker 4: those are the defending champs, Like you said, not giving

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Speaker 4: them any bulletin board material. But I think one of

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Speaker 4: the sort of signature elements of this run, the six

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Speaker 4: game run, is they frustrated now. Devin Booker, Kevin Durant,

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Speaker 4: Nicole jokicch and Jamal Murray. I would not want to

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Speaker 4: play these dudes. I'm trying. I was trying to think

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Speaker 4: of like NBA defenses that had this much they could

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Speaker 4: make great teams look so bad. And I was thinking

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Speaker 4: of the ninety nine Spurs, the two thousand and four

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Speaker 4: Pistons that beat Kobe and Shack. There's very few defenses

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Speaker 4: that I think could limit great offenses like the twenty

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Speaker 4: twenty four Timberwolves that we watched these last six games.

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Speaker 4: I mean, it's just it's just awesome, and I think

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Speaker 4: it's particularly cool in the context of a season where

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Speaker 4: offensive efficiency is surged, like this is sort of the

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Speaker 4: revenge of defense, and somehow their defensive efficiencies actually better

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Speaker 4: in the postseason against these playoff teams than it was

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Speaker 4: in the regular season when it led the NBA.

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Speaker 3: So wow.

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Speaker 4: I mean, just it's a defensive sort of signature.

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Speaker 5: I think in Minnesota, if you want to score some

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Speaker 5: points in Chicago, you can compare them to the first

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Speaker 5: three peat Chicago Bulls with Snotty Pippen and Horace Grant

403
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Speaker 5: running around trapping people, because that's what it looked like.

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Speaker 5: They look like, making the Lakers look old in the

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Speaker 5: ninety one Finals, the way they were playing defense out

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Speaker 5: there last night. I also love Anthony Edwards in interviews

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Speaker 5: saying please don't compare me to Michael Jordan, then hitting

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Speaker 5: a three pointer and doing the shrugs shrug Come on there,

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Speaker 5: it'll help him. Incredible stuff off from these guys, and man,

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Speaker 5: major shout out to Carl Anthony Towns. That's probably the

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Speaker 5: best game he's ever played in his career, considering the stakes,

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Speaker 5: considering no go bear, the defense. He was playing twenty

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Speaker 5: seven points, twelve rebounds, ten to fifteen from the field,

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Speaker 5: and he was bodying Yokic up. He was getting Jokic flustered.

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Speaker 5: That was super impressive. I thought from Towns, well, let's

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Speaker 5: move to the first game from last night. U Jalen

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Speaker 5: Brunson scoring forty three points, kirk As the Knicks comeback

418
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Speaker 5: to win another batshit crazy game with the Knicks involved

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Speaker 5: in Madison square guard and they win one twenty one,

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Speaker 5: one seventeen to beat the Pacers in game one of

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Speaker 5: their Eastern Conference semifinals matchup. You know, I know we'll

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Speaker 5: get to Brunson, but all everyone is talking about from

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Speaker 5: this one. You even alluded to it already was a

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Speaker 5: couple of these calls or no calls or replays that

425
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Speaker 5: were looked at the last couple of minutes of this

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Speaker 5: game took a long time because we had Zach Zarba

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Speaker 5: fixing his hair and looking at.

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Speaker 2: Monitors, sweating a whole lot. Yeah, what of the calls,

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00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:19,199
Speaker 2: the controversial ones jumps out to you the most. Was

430
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:22,680
Speaker 2: it the call illegal screen? I guess on Turner, Was

431
00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:25,240
Speaker 2: it the kickball they missed or was it a culmination

432
00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:25,720
Speaker 2: of all of them?

433
00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:29,760
Speaker 4: What do you think, bing Bong, it was the screen?

434
00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:36,280
Speaker 4: It was. I mean, the NBA overlooks famously a few

435
00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:42,040
Speaker 4: violations in the modern era, traveling, of course, the carrying violation.

436
00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:44,720
Speaker 4: But the Golden State Dynasty was brought to you in

437
00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:46,800
Speaker 4: part by great shooting and brought to you in part

438
00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:52,560
Speaker 4: by illegal screens. Draymond Green and we watched it for

439
00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:57,720
Speaker 4: a long time, and Miles Turner, my fellow Longhorn, did

440
00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:00,240
Speaker 4: last night. I did not deserve a whistle, especially thought

441
00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:03,160
Speaker 4: it was funny in our first conversation in the context

442
00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:06,040
Speaker 4: of what didn't get called with Jamal Murray throwing a

443
00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:10,040
Speaker 4: heat pack or Michael Malone. You can't call that there.

444
00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:11,960
Speaker 4: You cannot call it there. It was sort of a

445
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:15,880
Speaker 4: similar thing that happened in that Yukon Iowa Women's semi final. Yeah,

446
00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:18,600
Speaker 4: you cannot call that, but at least in the case

447
00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:21,359
Speaker 4: of the Yukon one, it was kind of a violation.

448
00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:24,840
Speaker 4: This one's sure, And but I do have to give

449
00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:28,080
Speaker 4: credit to the New York Knicks specifically on that play

450
00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:33,080
Speaker 4: a man I'll called Dante DiCaprio, because this dude sold that.

451
00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:37,240
Speaker 4: He sold that action in a way that made the

452
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:41,000
Speaker 4: whistle happen. And I'm joking, but I'm not, Like, if

453
00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:43,639
Speaker 4: he doesn't fly down to the floor in that moment,

454
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:45,720
Speaker 4: they might not call it. They shouldn't have called it

455
00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:49,880
Speaker 4: no matter what. But Dante really forced the referees whistle

456
00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:55,639
Speaker 4: with his exaggerated performance in the Best Supporting Actor.

457
00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:01,880
Speaker 3: What's fitting is that earlier Dante was out on the perimeter,

458
00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:05,280
Speaker 3: somebody flopped and they got a call because they flopped

459
00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:07,639
Speaker 3: on Dante's and so he went to the referee. Directly

460
00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:10,120
Speaker 3: to the referee he was on fired. He said, that's

461
00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:14,199
Speaker 3: a flop. Don't fall for that shit, right, So that's

462
00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:17,720
Speaker 3: literally what he said. And on the moving screen, excuse me,

463
00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:21,080
Speaker 3: excuse me. On the kickball that wasn't called he had

464
00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:24,040
Speaker 3: a moving screen. He literally popped Aaron Smith as hard

465
00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:27,919
Speaker 3: as he possibly could a mere minute before. So, I

466
00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:31,480
Speaker 3: mean the acting lessons for Dante, and maybe just the

467
00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:34,439
Speaker 3: fact that it happened a couple times just helped him out.

468
00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:36,960
Speaker 3: He was writing for that moment. But that was that

469
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:38,360
Speaker 3: was a terrible, terrible call.

470
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:42,080
Speaker 2: The Pacers challenged that one. They challenged this illegal screen,

471
00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:44,679
Speaker 2: and then they still went and looked at it. Sweaty

472
00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:48,000
Speaker 2: zacts are but and everybody in Secucus and they're like, well, okay,

473
00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:51,159
Speaker 2: I mean it's it's bang bang, you know, he's is

474
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:53,960
Speaker 2: he moving a little bit? Maybe Halliburton's going a little

475
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,080
Speaker 2: too early. You can make that argument as well. But

476
00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:59,160
Speaker 2: I just can't believe that they looked at and Slowmoe.

477
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:03,560
Speaker 2: You see the embellishment, you see the Vincenzo flopping, and

478
00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:06,040
Speaker 2: they're still like, Okay, we're gonna up up. We'll keep

479
00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:07,720
Speaker 2: that one. That one, we're not overturning.

480
00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:08,800
Speaker 3: That's it tech.

481
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:12,440
Speaker 5: That was crazy. I mean they also over or didn't

482
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:14,919
Speaker 5: overturn the one earlier in the first half when like

483
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:18,280
Speaker 5: Brunson goes flying into Miles turning. Yeah, somehow not a

484
00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:20,760
Speaker 5: foul on Brunson. They called it marginal contact even though

485
00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:22,600
Speaker 5: he gave him a hip check into the shoulder. That

486
00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:24,639
Speaker 5: didn't make sense. This was a great game for forty

487
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:27,080
Speaker 5: seven minutes. Yeah, and the last minute was brutal because

488
00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:29,359
Speaker 5: I mean, the moving screen was bad, but like the

489
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:32,359
Speaker 5: kickball on Nie Smith was a terrible call. The Knicks

490
00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:34,479
Speaker 5: had to challenge that Brunton out of bounds that clearly

491
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:37,040
Speaker 5: went off u Nie Smith or in Nemhard's foot. They

492
00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:39,280
Speaker 5: just they botched it. We'll have been right in the

493
00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:41,600
Speaker 5: last minute of this game, and it ruined it. Yeah.

494
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,840
Speaker 2: Do you what do you think of all these replays, Kirk?

495
00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:47,080
Speaker 2: I know there's always discourse about this, like why do

496
00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:48,719
Speaker 2: we even have this stuff, especially if they don't even

497
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:50,119
Speaker 2: get it right when we go and look at it.

498
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:52,760
Speaker 2: Do you have an opinion on it? You think it's

499
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:54,520
Speaker 2: fine because you want to get it? Like, what's what's

500
00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:54,920
Speaker 2: your take?

501
00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:57,840
Speaker 4: It's a necessary evil? I think I hate it, but

502
00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:01,040
Speaker 4: I I think so. I sort of shudder to think

503
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:03,359
Speaker 4: of what would happen if they missed a few calls

504
00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:05,400
Speaker 4: and didn't have the opportunity to review them. I Mean,

505
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:07,480
Speaker 4: the bottom line is, guys, in my opinion. If we

506
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:09,760
Speaker 4: have one hundred of these playoff games or whatever, every year,

507
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:12,479
Speaker 4: three or four of them are going to be marred

508
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:16,800
Speaker 4: by these late game mistakes. And basketball, especially with how

509
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:21,320
Speaker 4: athletic these guys are, how fast the game moves, and

510
00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:25,920
Speaker 4: now like the Dicaprios of the world, selling these actions

511
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:29,320
Speaker 4: and snapping their heads back and arm flops. It's just

512
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:33,399
Speaker 4: being an NBA officials, a fool's errand it's so tough,

513
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:36,480
Speaker 4: and it's going to be impossible for these guys to

514
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,159
Speaker 4: throw a perfect game out there, and unfortunately, some of

515
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:41,440
Speaker 4: those mistakes come at really high leverage moments. I just

516
00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:45,320
Speaker 4: wanted to see Tyrese Haliburn get a shot to make

517
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:47,119
Speaker 4: one of the biggest shots of his career, and instead

518
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:50,520
Speaker 4: I'm listening to a whistle that shouldn't have been It

519
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:53,399
Speaker 4: shouldn't have been blown, and you know, it's a bummer.

520
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:55,040
Speaker 2: And then it is so ironic and you guys already

521
00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 2: slipped it in there. Indiana didn't have a replay opportunity

522
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 2: with one about fifty two seconds to go in a

523
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:05,000
Speaker 2: tie game when Nie Smith is whistled for a kickball

524
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:07,639
Speaker 2: and he's like, I didn't kick it. I hit it

525
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:09,600
Speaker 2: with my hand. Now, look I watching it live, it

526
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:11,680
Speaker 2: like almost did appear. It's like, oh, did it hit

527
00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:14,679
Speaker 2: his foot like you see it? Yeah, But it is

528
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:18,400
Speaker 2: weird that we have all these replay reviews, but Nope,

529
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:21,359
Speaker 2: can't go review that one, the one that generally is

530
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:23,760
Speaker 2: the easiest to see whether or not it hits somebody's

531
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:27,280
Speaker 2: foot and it's a kick or not. They can't review that.

532
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:29,400
Speaker 2: And then that resulted in I guess the De Vincenzo

533
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:33,160
Speaker 2: three that was obviously massive. I don't know, a part

534
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 2: of me just like it's like I wish they almost

535
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:38,840
Speaker 2: had just pick up rules here. And it's like in

536
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:42,360
Speaker 2: these bang bang or really close calls or who it's

537
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:44,200
Speaker 2: out on or was there a kick or not or whatever,

538
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 2: it's just like I almost want like a possession arrow.

539
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:49,479
Speaker 2: It's like, all right, well, we don't know, let's keep

540
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:52,359
Speaker 2: the flow going though. It's your ball nicks, and then

541
00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:54,399
Speaker 2: the next one happens it's your ball pacers and just

542
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 2: sort of do that. But we're never going back to that.

543
00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:58,880
Speaker 4: I guess what if they just had like a challenge

544
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:02,160
Speaker 4: flag and I don't know, maybe like Jamal Murray could

545
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:02,680
Speaker 4: just throw.

546
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 3: A challenge Yeah.

547
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:07,120
Speaker 2: One heat packed to throw on the court.

548
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:11,720
Speaker 3: That was the first, the first idea during Summer's League

549
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 3: when they decided that coaches Challenge could happen, the flag

550
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:17,080
Speaker 3: was gonna come out when they decided that we were

551
00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:19,160
Speaker 3: going to do this whole coaches challenge thing. The flag

552
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:22,359
Speaker 3: was the first idea, but then that got band. I

553
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:24,920
Speaker 3: don't want to stand up for the referees in this scenario,

554
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:28,639
Speaker 3: but the play Devil's advocate. It's difficult to overturn the

555
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:31,080
Speaker 3: Miles Turner hit because.

556
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:33,040
Speaker 4: He was moving.

557
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:35,400
Speaker 3: I mean, it has to be it has to be convincing,

558
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 3: and that's the thing that has to happen in the summer.

559
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:40,639
Speaker 3: We've been talking about it for years. You brought up, Kirk,

560
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:45,600
Speaker 3: the absolute way that the Golden Warriors win is because

561
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 3: Draymond Green's moving all the time. They have to change screens,

562
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:53,120
Speaker 3: but look at it, they should be also be able

563
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:53,400
Speaker 3: to go.

564
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 2: He's flopping, he's selling it.

565
00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:56,439
Speaker 5: He was.

566
00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's no one that convinced you that Dante vid

567
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:02,080
Speaker 2: Devincenzo wasn't acting like Kirk said. But like when you

568
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:04,359
Speaker 2: go and look at it and you're like, well, was

569
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 2: he moving a little bit? Yeah, but look at him

570
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 2: he's completely embellishing.

571
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:12,400
Speaker 3: Sure it was convinced. It has to be convincing screen

572
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:15,359
Speaker 3: and not not a hey, I'm opening this door for you.

573
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:18,760
Speaker 3: He almost looks like he's is in a I don't

574
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:19,680
Speaker 3: know what he's doing, but.

575
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 5: That bad.

576
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 3: Of course, the comparison to the NCAA semifinal the women's

577
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:27,880
Speaker 3: semifinals is a good one, but that one was more

578
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:28,960
Speaker 3: of a screen.

579
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:32,880
Speaker 2: That was It's unfortunate, Trey, you said it. This game

580
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 2: was awesome. Every Knicks game is right now in the playoffs.

581
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:39,119
Speaker 2: It's incredible. And then we get into the final minute

582
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 2: where you know, especially Pacers fans are gonna be upset

583
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 2: with the going the nixt way. But even just like

584
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:46,280
Speaker 2: it started to ruin the flow. Yeah, the drama builds

585
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:48,160
Speaker 2: because you're looking at replays and you're here in stan

586
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,200
Speaker 2: band gunny talk. It's like, Okay, I'd rather watch Jalen

587
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:53,200
Speaker 2: brunts and try and score in the paint. I'd rather

588
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:55,360
Speaker 2: watch Yeah, is Haliburt never going to take a shot here?

589
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 2: You know, I'd rather see them actually play basketball. Then

590
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 2: these guys look at monitor and talk to people in

591
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:03,480
Speaker 2: New Jersey. That's the frustrating part that I think everybody

592
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 2: agrees with that's right. Yeah, what do you think about

593
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:08,520
Speaker 2: the actual basketball.

594
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 5: And what's the first forty seven minutes?

595
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:15,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Again, this next team is just infectious.

596
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:19,160
Speaker 4: I love watching them. Like Minnesota, they seem to be

597
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:21,679
Speaker 4: greater than the some of the individual parts when it

598
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:25,760
Speaker 4: matters most, whether it's Anonobi's defense or of course you

599
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 4: have to start this conversation with Jaylen Brunson. But Josh

600
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 4: Hart continues to be way better than I ever expected

601
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:35,719
Speaker 4: into and was again great last night. He at twenty

602
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:40,920
Speaker 4: four points on thirteen shots, like and that's the kind

603
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 4: of contribution that I did not expect. And credit to

604
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:48,280
Speaker 4: this next team. The architects of this team from Leon

605
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 4: Rose and Tom Thibodeau, but also the great Jay Wright.

606
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 4: I think Villanova deserves some credit for these guys so

607
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 4: that they play so well together, they play so hard,

608
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 4: they make all the winning plays. But the thing I'd

609
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 4: have to point out the most that keeps standing out

610
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 4: is Jalen Brunson obviously is the leading score of the playoffs,

611
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 4: had forty three again last night on twenty six shots,

612
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 4: and just has a knack for making the biggest shots

613
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:19,480
Speaker 4: in the game. And the sky's the limit for him.

614
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 6: Now.

615
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 4: I've been wrong about this guy and where the ceiling

616
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 4: was now for years, but it continues to get higher

617
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 4: and higher, to the point where now I'm just expecting

618
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:30,880
Speaker 4: him to score thirty eight or forty points in playoff

619
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 4: series every game. So I love watching it, and you

620
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 4: said it already. Watching playoff games in Madison Square Garden

621
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 4: for fans of a certain age is just a treat,

622
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 4: and it's great to have this level of basketball back

623
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 4: in Manhattan.

624
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 2: I love it. I've said it obviously for years. It

625
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 2: became a running joke that you know, you haven't watched

626
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:51,360
Speaker 2: the basketball game unless he saw a game in Madison

627
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 2: Square Garden. It is special. I even love the crowd

628
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 2: when at one point Hertenstein's bringing up the ball and

629
00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 2: somebody's trailing Maybe it was McConnell or I can't remember

630
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 2: which pacer it was. You cant yeah, is it? And

631
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 2: he said you can hear the like the entire crowd,

632
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 2: twenty thousand people basically screaming, there's a man behind you,

633
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:10,240
Speaker 2: like behind I love it. They're so invested. And Jalen

634
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 2: Brunson became the fourth player in NBA history with four

635
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 2: straight forty point games in the postseason, Jerry West did

636
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 2: it six straight times, and then we've got, of course

637
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 2: Michael Jordan and Bernard King who also did it for

638
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 2: Jordan doing it in the ninety three finals. But this

639
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 2: is the heater Brunson's on. You're right, Kirk, it's at

640
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:28,840
Speaker 2: the point where, like I'm shocked when he misses now,

641
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 2: like when he gets in and around the rim, I'm like,

642
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 2: I can't believe when he doesn't knock one down. And

643
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:35,960
Speaker 2: my wife's sort of watching this game. She's on her phone,

644
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 2: you know, we got it on, and she's like, is

645
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 2: he okay? What's wrong with him? I'm like, what are

646
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:41,760
Speaker 2: you talking about? You're talking about Jayleen Brunson. She's like,

647
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:47,720
Speaker 2: he never changes his face. He never is really happy

648
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 2: or sad or frustrated, and like he you know, he

649
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 2: is a rock. Like he's just no emotion. It's sort

650
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 2: of scary. He's like a psycho and he's just locked in.

651
00:30:57,480 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 4: I think he can He totally matches the identity of

652
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 4: the Nick fan base too, Like it's so congruent with

653
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 4: what you want the Knicks to play, Like I just

654
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 4: love as an old school guy loving it two feet

655
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:12,040
Speaker 4: and the paint and his footwork and and and that

656
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 4: stoicism that your wife is talking about. He's just tough

657
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:18,959
Speaker 4: and he's ready for it, and his teammates really feed

658
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:22,200
Speaker 4: off of it. I mean, Annonobi on defense has always

659
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 4: been great, but it's just his work on Siakam is

660
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 4: going to be really important for this season or the

661
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 4: series and his corner threes. And again credit to the

662
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:37,040
Speaker 4: next front office for making some transactions this season and

663
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 4: then integrating these players on the fly, because it looks

664
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:42,360
Speaker 4: like these guys have been playing together for years. Obviously

665
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 4: in the case of the Nova Knicks, they have been.

666
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:50,640
Speaker 4: But Anonobi is just the seamless, plug and play guy

667
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 4: and it's been great.

668
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:52,080
Speaker 6: Yeah.

669
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:55,040
Speaker 3: The only time that Jalen Brunson I think was scolded

670
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:57,320
Speaker 3: in this game, he was arguing with the referee and

671
00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:00,280
Speaker 3: at some point his dad, assistant coach Rick Brunson, came

672
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 3: in the way and had to get him out of

673
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 3: the way and just move him on, move him along,

674
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 3: because he has been, yeah, has been stowing. It is

675
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:09,400
Speaker 3: great that he overcame his first two slow starts in

676
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 3: the playoffs, because he did have two slow games against

677
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 3: Philadelphia seventy six ers, but they were over overcame that

678
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:17,479
Speaker 3: pretty freaking easily in a way. I mean, the Sixers

679
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 3: were fighting them. But we gotta give some love to

680
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 3: these Indiana Pacers because unless that all happens in the

681
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 3: in the last minute there where the Knicks get a

682
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 3: couple of whistles, they could have come in here and

683
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:31,520
Speaker 3: won this game. And they were awesome. I mean, we'll

684
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 3: get to your book, Kirk, but I think you could

685
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:36,200
Speaker 3: start a new book with a couple of the Pacers

686
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:39,200
Speaker 3: plays in this game. Just some great artistry I think

687
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 3: is in this book. I think some great artistry was

688
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 3: when Obi Toppen went between the legs on a dunk

689
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:48,080
Speaker 3: when he was there was a guy at mid court

690
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 3: who kind of slowed him down and he was able

691
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 3: to even though he was flying and he's in Madison

692
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 3: Square Garden that he's able to go through the legs.

693
00:32:55,200 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 3: And the Aaron Nesmith dunk that was awesome too. I mean,

694
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 3: they were they were so good. Maybe their depth helps

695
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:07,800
Speaker 3: because Thibodeau is going to play everybody so many minutes.

696
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 3: Josh Hart is averaging forty six and a half minutes

697
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:12,600
Speaker 3: in the postseason. What I mean, he played forty.

698
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 2: Eight and he's still the guy that comes up with

699
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 2: the huge offensive rebounds in the final couple of minutes.

700
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:19,200
Speaker 3: But yeah, the PACER's depth and TJ. McConnell was was

701
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 3: so good. I mean, they they were so good off

702
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 3: the bench topping them. McConnell were so good.

703
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:25,640
Speaker 5: Everybody keeps talking about the Knicks are going to get

704
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 5: tired eventually, are they?

705
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 3: Why?

706
00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 5: That doesn't feel at all to me.

707
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:33,080
Speaker 4: As a as a front office guy, who who who

708
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 4: who monitored this kind of stuff for a long time,

709
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:38,440
Speaker 4: Like tosses exactly right when you look at the there's

710
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 4: a red flag in New York and it's that bench.

711
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:43,920
Speaker 4: They scored three points last night between Precious Mitch and

712
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 4: Duce McBride. They're they're they're leaning on these starters, who

713
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 4: you know, OG is is a pretty risk injury risk guy.

714
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 4: Like there's there's some forty two minutes from OG, forty

715
00:33:56,920 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 4: four from brunts, and forty eight from Josh Hart and

716
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 4: I the fact they're only getting three points and they're

717
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 4: all they're losing those bench minutes, so significantly, that's something

718
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:09,959
Speaker 4: to monitor. I mean, Indiana played well enough to get

719
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:12,839
Speaker 4: a chance to steal game one, and I do think

720
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:15,480
Speaker 4: fatigue could be a factory. If this goes six or

721
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 4: seven games, will that New York depth or lack of it,

722
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:21,799
Speaker 4: really start to hurt this team. I think that's a

723
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 4: great point.

724
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:25,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, forty six to three advantage for the Pacers. TJ

725
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:29,920
Speaker 2: McConnell amazing in this game. Probably outplayed Haliburton, definitely outplayed Haliburn.

726
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 2: He scored eighteen points, He had three steals doing TJ

727
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:34,600
Speaker 2: stuff there, obviously working just as hard as all these

728
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 2: other guys out there. Obi topping great game. He said,

729
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:39,400
Speaker 2: he threw down the East Bay funk dunk on the breakaway,

730
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:42,480
Speaker 2: like in the third quarter of a huge postseason game.

731
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 2: Is Sea Jackson was really good energy in the first half, especially,

732
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 2: he had eight to five. He had three blocks, Ben

733
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:51,560
Speaker 2: Shepherd's mustache, hit a couple threes, like everybody contributing off

734
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:54,399
Speaker 2: the Pacers bench. And you said, there, Kirk, not much

735
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 2: from New York. But I'm sort of with TK at

736
00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:59,080
Speaker 2: this point. I don't know if they're gonna tire. We

737
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:00,839
Speaker 2: always get asked for get asked a lot because I'm

738
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 2: a runner, Like, Hey, which NBA player do you think

739
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:04,839
Speaker 2: would be the best at running a marathon? And usually

740
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:07,440
Speaker 2: It's like, honestly, none of them would be they're too big.

741
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 2: But I think it's gotta be Josh Hart, maybe Brunson.

742
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:14,520
Speaker 2: I would love to see run the New York City Marathon.

743
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 2: He throwed Devincenzo in there. If you want, they can

744
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:19,880
Speaker 2: run as a trio. Because these guys maybe could do it.

745
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 5: It takes six times for Jalen Brunson to do it

746
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:24,719
Speaker 5: because he'd be going like four steps forward, that takes

747
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:27,719
Speaker 5: step back another few steps forward, so it would take

748
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 5: him a while, but he could do it. You could

749
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 5: definitely do it. It just feels like such a missed

750
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:35,160
Speaker 5: opportunity to me. The Pacers losing that game. That game

751
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:37,319
Speaker 5: was paid at, played at a PACER's place.

752
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:37,800
Speaker 4: Pace.

753
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:40,360
Speaker 5: Man, that's a tough one to say. They were flying

754
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 5: up and down the court though. You had Josh Arden

755
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 5: doing the interview and he's like, yeah, we love playing

756
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:45,920
Speaker 5: this pace. I don't know if they're gonna love it

757
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 5: for an entire series, but they were flying. You have

758
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 5: to imagine it slows down eventually, but if not, they

759
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:54,560
Speaker 5: could turn the Pacers away. But I just feel like

760
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 5: getting forty three points from your bench, getting a huge

761
00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 5: Isaiah Jackson game, TJ. McConnell out playing Tyre's Halliburton. You

762
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:03,720
Speaker 5: got a great Miles Turner game. All of this happened

763
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 5: on the road in Game one and they still lost.

764
00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 5: That's not great to me.

765
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 2: No, what do you think of Halliburton?

766
00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 4: Kirk put him on the side of a milk cart

767
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 4: and as they say, fellas like, he played thirty six minutes.

768
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:18,760
Speaker 4: I love Tyrese Haliburton. He is one of my favorite

769
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 4: young players in the league. He played thirty six minutes.

770
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:23,400
Speaker 4: He took one two point shot, He made two field goals,

771
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:27,399
Speaker 4: both from beyond the arc. He sort of broke out

772
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 4: this season in part because he was blending shooting, playmaking.

773
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 4: Scoring at a very high level was one of the

774
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 4: reasons Indiana's offense was doing very well before his injury.

775
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 4: I don't know if there's an injury there. I don't

776
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:43,920
Speaker 4: even I don't know what it is. But the bottom

777
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:46,200
Speaker 4: line is if Indiana's going to win the series, they

778
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 4: can't have games like that from that dude. He needs

779
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:50,440
Speaker 4: to be better if they want to steal Game two

780
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:53,120
Speaker 4: in New York. Obviously he has to be better. He

781
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:55,960
Speaker 4: has an indioms to be one of the best players

782
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:58,839
Speaker 4: in this series. But last night, guys, and you're right,

783
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:02,120
Speaker 4: t J McConnell shot sixteen times last night. He was

784
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:05,640
Speaker 4: much more aggressive in that role as the playmaker for

785
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:08,000
Speaker 4: Indiana than the enty Reese was. So the bottom line

786
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:09,399
Speaker 4: is they're not going to win this series if he's

787
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:11,920
Speaker 4: playing like that. They need more from him, and that's

788
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:13,719
Speaker 4: the player I most interested is to see how he

789
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:14,520
Speaker 4: plays a game two.

790
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:17,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he had those two live ball turnovers back

791
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:20,239
Speaker 2: to back those sessions, Yeah, with like four minutes to go.

792
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 2: Obviously in a tight game, he's gonna wish he had

793
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:25,360
Speaker 2: those back. But yeah, I guess he had backspasms. He

794
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:27,879
Speaker 2: was questionable. You know, he's been a little injured this year.

795
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:29,680
Speaker 2: Maybe that's what it is. Just like we were started

796
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 2: talking with Jamal Murray, they're not themselves, you know, they're

797
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:34,360
Speaker 2: not at their one hundred percent though who really is

798
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:36,080
Speaker 2: at this point in the year. But yeah, I'm with you.

799
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:38,720
Speaker 2: I think most people would agree he's got to be better.

800
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:43,320
Speaker 2: And otherwise, everybody did their part. Trey, like everybody else

801
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:46,919
Speaker 2: on the Pacers roster, sort of did the game plan,

802
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 2: I would think, to get to them to the point

803
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:50,840
Speaker 2: and then they got those bad calls and got a

804
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:51,680
Speaker 2: bad Heliberdon Gain.

805
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:53,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, in a way that we were talking about the

806
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:57,960
Speaker 3: Minnesota Timberwolves playing fifty feet on defense, the Pacers were

807
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:00,719
Speaker 3: doing that too. They're playing extremely hard. TJ mccaugh coming

808
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:04,600
Speaker 3: off the bench and was great obviously driving setting guys up,

809
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:07,080
Speaker 3: but he was also playing hard on the defense ved

810
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:09,719
Speaker 3: and he looked tired. I think TJ McConnell looked tired,

811
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:12,719
Speaker 3: and he literally just played twenty two minutes. But that

812
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 3: steel where he blindsided og Anobi to begin the fourth quarter,

813
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 3: where he was in the back court, the Knicks are

814
00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:20,279
Speaker 3: just inbounding underneath their own hoop and he blindsides og

815
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:22,480
Speaker 3: for a great steal. I mean, I do think there

816
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:26,440
Speaker 3: were in a Nuggets way, the Knicks were having some

817
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:30,280
Speaker 3: brain farts out there many times Og and Heart miscommunicating.

818
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:34,160
Speaker 3: On Haliburton's one of those threes, I mean Heart threw

819
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 3: it out of bounds when he was looking for Isaiah Hartenstein.

820
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 3: They tried to inbound to Mitchell Robinson. He wasn't even looking,

821
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:41,400
Speaker 3: So I don't know if that comes from just being tired,

822
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:44,239
Speaker 3: if they need more Mike and ikes that Josh hart

823
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:46,520
Speaker 3: Eats and Jay Wright says you need to eat more

824
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:49,000
Speaker 3: of those. I don't know what's going on there, but

825
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:50,920
Speaker 3: the fact that you said he did an interview. He

826
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:54,080
Speaker 3: played thirty six minutes in the first three quarters, all

827
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:55,759
Speaker 3: the minutes, and he goes off and he does an

828
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:59,479
Speaker 3: interview immediately he doesn't want to sit. You say, he's

829
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:02,600
Speaker 3: so he's not stopping any players the rest of that. Yeah,

830
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:06,239
Speaker 3: it is amazing that they're getting out of those. Those

831
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:09,439
Speaker 3: their first five guys, and they in a very limited way.

832
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:13,200
Speaker 3: I haven't looked at the bench minutes throughout the first

833
00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:15,319
Speaker 3: series against the seventy six ers, but to only play

834
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 3: Miles McBride ten minutes and Mitchell Robinson eleven minutes and

835
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:20,680
Speaker 3: you get a few out of prechas a chew, those

836
00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:22,839
Speaker 3: are the fewest minutes I assume that the bench has played.

837
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:26,839
Speaker 3: It's crazy, literally all playoffs long. And so maybe those

838
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:29,880
Speaker 3: brain farts happen because they are as a group tired.

839
00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:33,480
Speaker 3: But also, I mean they happened in the first quarter,

840
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:35,880
Speaker 3: they happened throughout the game, So maybe that's just Pacers

841
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 3: were playing awesome and hard.

842
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:40,760
Speaker 2: Great great game one, and hopefully it sets up another

843
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 2: sort of iconic series here, like we saw with the

844
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:45,840
Speaker 2: Nixon sixers being so close. I hope we get that

845
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:48,759
Speaker 2: here with Indiana and New York. We got a little

846
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:50,920
Speaker 2: news here, Kirk, before we get to your book. We

847
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:54,839
Speaker 2: knew this was coming, but still newsworthy. Nonetheless, Victor Wemanyama

848
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 2: NBA's Rookie of the Year after earning all ninety nine

849
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 2: first plays vote, first clean sweep since Karl Anthony Towns

850
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 2: in twenty sixteen. Chet Holmgren coming in second ninety eight

851
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:10,880
Speaker 2: second place votes. Oh, somebody didn't vote Chet second on

852
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:15,720
Speaker 2: their ballot, Brandon Miller finishing distant third. But you obviously

853
00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:18,879
Speaker 2: worked with the Spurs organization, Kirk. I'm sure you still

854
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:21,319
Speaker 2: have ties to that organization. This is not surprise, but

855
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:24,720
Speaker 2: you know, I'm sure have you had conversations with people

856
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:27,440
Speaker 2: around women Yama this year and what's your thoughts on

857
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 2: him unanimously winning.

858
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:32,840
Speaker 4: ROI yeah, he's the best rookie I've seen in a

859
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 4: very long time. I got to see him a bunch

860
00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:37,360
Speaker 4: of times this year. But the one time they played

861
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:40,240
Speaker 4: two games in Austin, I went to both of them,

862
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:43,399
Speaker 4: and the second one was against the Brooklyn Nets, and

863
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:47,040
Speaker 4: he had like thirty seven seventeen, seven and seven, and

864
00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:48,840
Speaker 4: they won in overtime, and it was one of the

865
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 4: rare times the Spurs like won a close game this year.

866
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:54,080
Speaker 4: But I just left that game and I remember talking

867
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:56,040
Speaker 4: to my friends at the Spurs, I'm like, that's literally

868
00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 4: the best rookie performance I've ever seen in my life.

869
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:04,600
Speaker 4: This dude was doing everything and blocking seven shots, obviously

870
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 4: scoring thirty seven points, making threes, and at age twenty,

871
00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:12,600
Speaker 4: the best player in an NBA game. And we've talked

872
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:16,000
Speaker 4: a lot about how Anthony Edwards is emerging at twenty two.

873
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:20,160
Speaker 4: To me, Edwards and wemen Minyama are going to be

874
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:23,360
Speaker 4: the face of the league for a long time. But

875
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:27,880
Speaker 4: we Benyama's defensive ceiling we knew coming in was high.

876
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:31,800
Speaker 4: I didn't think he'd be this good this fast on defense,

877
00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:33,799
Speaker 4: and I also didn't think he'd be this good this

878
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 4: fast on offense. I still think his ultimate ceiling is

879
00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:40,319
Speaker 4: the best defender in the world, but he has the

880
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:43,840
Speaker 4: capability to score thirty or forty points. Again, if you

881
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:47,440
Speaker 4: look back at rookie seasons from players like Lebron James

882
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:50,480
Speaker 4: or Kobe Bryant, this is as good, if not better

883
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:54,200
Speaker 4: than most of those players, and I think this first, No,

884
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:56,719
Speaker 4: they have something special here for years to come. But

885
00:41:56,800 --> 00:42:00,719
Speaker 4: obviously as a rookie of the year, potentially defensive player

886
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:02,720
Speaker 4: of the Year for years to come, and an anchor

887
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 4: of a team. So they're very excited in San Antonio

888
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:05,920
Speaker 4: as they should.

889
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 5: Be, working with the Spurs having friends there. How long

890
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:13,719
Speaker 5: ago did they know about Victor Wembinyama, because there's the

891
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:18,640
Speaker 5: relationship between Victor and Tony Parker from Tony's team in France,

892
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:21,120
Speaker 5: Like we've seen pictures of Victor wearing a Tony Parker

893
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:24,120
Speaker 5: jersey when he's like fifteen years old or something like that.

894
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:28,360
Speaker 5: Was San Antonio tracking this guy six years before he

895
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:29,320
Speaker 5: came to the NBA.

896
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 4: One hundred percent. I mean Boris Diao's another great name. Yeah,

897
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:36,160
Speaker 4: these guys are still close to the organization, close to

898
00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 4: pop and you know, no player comes out of France

899
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:43,480
Speaker 4: without Tony and Boris being aware of it. And again

900
00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:47,120
Speaker 4: the Spurs, the Spurs have a pretty good international scouting operation,

901
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:50,719
Speaker 4: so they have been a well aware of Victor for

902
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:54,399
Speaker 4: five years, four years, whatever it is. But man, when

903
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:57,279
Speaker 4: that lottery ball came through, it was just one of

904
00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:00,920
Speaker 4: the greatest moments in the franchise is stree to be honest,

905
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:04,319
Speaker 4: the team that's won five championships to know that, it

906
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:07,560
Speaker 4: just seemed like the perfect destination. Guys. I'm sure you

907
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:09,560
Speaker 4: guys have covered this, but the fact that he landed

908
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:14,760
Speaker 4: there with the Duncan and David Robinson is the previous

909
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:17,520
Speaker 4: number one picks, and obviously the connections to France with

910
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:20,640
Speaker 4: Tony and Boris and the international tradition in San Antonio,

911
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:23,680
Speaker 4: it just seemed perfect, a perfect place for Victor to

912
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:27,200
Speaker 4: land and it has gone very well. Yes, but what's

913
00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:31,320
Speaker 4: interesting to me is like where, what are the normal what? What?

914
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:33,759
Speaker 4: What's the timetable now? Because now you have this dude,

915
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 4: you can't be the bottom five team in the NBA anymore.

916
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:39,360
Speaker 4: It's over and so now they have a really interesting

917
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:41,920
Speaker 4: team building challenge and the good news is they have

918
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:46,279
Speaker 4: a pretty great piece to start a new Spurs dynasty with.

919
00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:50,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, the Spurs were aware of Victor. Rcie Buford was asked,

920
00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:54,040
Speaker 3: when was the first time you saw one BA May fourth,

921
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:57,200
Speaker 3: twenty nineteen. I want to watch him. He was fifteen

922
00:43:57,239 --> 00:43:59,279
Speaker 3: years old. There was nobody else in the gym. It

923
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:01,879
Speaker 3: was somewhere in France, but not Paris. He didn't remember

924
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:04,279
Speaker 3: where he was. He just remembered the date. And since

925
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:06,719
Speaker 3: we started this show with the he showed.

926
00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:09,080
Speaker 4: Me that picture on his iPad, actually tossed. He showed

927
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 4: me this. He came to my class at the University

928
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:13,640
Speaker 4: of Texas this semester and no big deal, but he

929
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:18,600
Speaker 4: showed he showed the class this iPad that had a

930
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:22,600
Speaker 4: very empty French gym with a bunch of like you know,

931
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:27,319
Speaker 4: with bright red seats and a teenager who was like

932
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:29,920
Speaker 4: six inches taller than every other player on the court,

933
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:31,920
Speaker 4: being the young one. But Yamas, so he actually has

934
00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:38,120
Speaker 4: photographic evidence. Would you say, May fourth, twenty nineteen, correct, Yeah,

935
00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:41,439
Speaker 4: so that's that's what is that five years ago, five

936
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:42,160
Speaker 4: years and three days.

937
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:43,919
Speaker 3: Yeah, tracking him.

938
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:45,279
Speaker 2: For a while and I think you know, they saw,

939
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:47,040
Speaker 2: you know, they were getting some flak. The Spurs were

940
00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:49,879
Speaker 2: earlier this season too. People are like, you're slow playing them,

941
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:52,000
Speaker 2: why are you playing them? No minutes, pomp, what are

942
00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:54,880
Speaker 2: you doing? But in a weird way, it probably helped

943
00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:57,200
Speaker 2: him because there was a part in the season where

944
00:44:57,200 --> 00:44:58,719
Speaker 2: like he had a couple of rough games and people

945
00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:01,200
Speaker 2: starting to go like, oh, he hit the rookie wall,

946
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:04,320
Speaker 2: you know, he played obviously in professional leagues in France,

947
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:06,600
Speaker 2: but they have a much shorter season. Maybe he's hitting

948
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:08,279
Speaker 2: it like some of these rooks do. And then it

949
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 2: was like soon after that he like just stepped over

950
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:13,359
Speaker 2: the wall with his obviously long strides and it wasn't

951
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:15,080
Speaker 2: an issue. We got better as the year went on.

952
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:17,520
Speaker 2: You wonder if slow playing them early helped him there.

953
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:21,320
Speaker 2: Obviously his confidence grew, they started to win some games

954
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:23,920
Speaker 2: at the end. That's got to feel good. And you're right, Kirk.

955
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:25,920
Speaker 2: Now we get to see, like how aggressive does this

956
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:30,319
Speaker 2: front office go. We have a generational talent here that

957
00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:34,680
Speaker 2: might be next year top five, let alone maybe in

958
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:37,080
Speaker 2: the MVP conversation if we win games, So how aggressive

959
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:40,239
Speaker 2: do we get players to help him get those w's

960
00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:41,960
Speaker 2: Because we've seen from him, this guy's going to be

961
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:44,360
Speaker 2: a walking like it feels like if he stays healthy,

962
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:49,960
Speaker 2: he's like, I don't know, twenty five thirteen, five assists, well,

963
00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:52,400
Speaker 2: but yeah, three four blocks, I mean in more minutes,

964
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:52,759
Speaker 2: why not?

965
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:53,080
Speaker 5: Right?

966
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:56,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, quadruple doubles are going to happen, you know, I

967
00:45:56,920 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 4: think it's pretty incredible and point out and all the

968
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:04,520
Speaker 4: Anthony Edwards attention, which is really well deserved in this

969
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:07,319
Speaker 4: Minnesota team is great. Well, Anthony's twenty two and if

970
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:10,040
Speaker 4: you just look at that roster, you know, two to

971
00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:13,680
Speaker 4: ten below him, that is what his championship caliber team

972
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:17,120
Speaker 4: and roster looks like. The Spurs don't have that around

973
00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:19,640
Speaker 4: Women Yaama. So I think he nailed. It's like, how

974
00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:22,120
Speaker 4: do they get there? Like, if they want to be

975
00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:25,360
Speaker 4: the next Timberwolves, the next ascendant team in the Western Conference,

976
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:30,920
Speaker 4: building that roster out around their absolute stud center is

977
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:33,680
Speaker 4: the task at hand. So it'll be really interesting to

978
00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:36,200
Speaker 4: see what that looks like next year in the following season.

979
00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:38,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, and women Yama. Just to like put a put

980
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:40,880
Speaker 2: a pin in this. He really did just have probably

981
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:44,719
Speaker 2: the best third, maybe fourth best rookie season in the

982
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:48,840
Speaker 2: last thirtieth years. When you go back to Shaquille O'Neal

983
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:51,000
Speaker 2: in ninety two ninety three, you know he was putting

984
00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:52,759
Speaker 2: up huge numbers. He won Rookie of the Year. He

985
00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:54,960
Speaker 2: started for the East in the All Star Game Tim

986
00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:57,600
Speaker 2: Duncan ninety seven to ninety eight. I mean this one

987
00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:00,760
Speaker 2: gets overlooked. He was All NBA First Team, All Defense,

988
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:02,840
Speaker 2: second Team. He's an All Star. He finished fifth and

989
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:05,759
Speaker 2: MVP fifth and Defensive Player of the Year. Spurs won

990
00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:09,399
Speaker 2: something like thirty six more games when Duncan showed up. Now, yes,

991
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:11,600
Speaker 2: they had David Robinson injured the year before, and then

992
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:14,320
Speaker 2: they slot him beside him, and then yeah, and then Lebron,

993
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:16,359
Speaker 2: I think, and I think women Yama, you can make

994
00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:19,760
Speaker 2: the case had even more impressive rookie year than Lebron,

995
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:22,120
Speaker 2: though Lebron took that team to much more wins after

996
00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:24,360
Speaker 2: he arrived there, and he's coming out of high school.

997
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:26,480
Speaker 2: So it's like, yeah, the third or fourth best of

998
00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:30,360
Speaker 2: the past thirty plus seasons is pretty remarkable.

999
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:31,440
Speaker 5: Those other guys are pretty good.

1000
00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:33,759
Speaker 2: Those other guys are good. Yeah, yeah, Duncan, Shaq and

1001
00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:39,120
Speaker 2: Lebron not bad company to have your name in there. Well,

1002
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:42,160
Speaker 2: before we let you go again, congratulations Here on the book,

1003
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:45,919
Speaker 2: Kirk hoop Atlas, it's out today. This is your second book.

1004
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:48,000
Speaker 2: You did sprawl Ball there it is for everybody. We'll

1005
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:49,720
Speaker 2: make sure to have a link in the show notes

1006
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:54,239
Speaker 2: to go get a copy, Like what inspired you to

1007
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:56,520
Speaker 2: write this one after sprawl Ball and how does it

1008
00:47:56,600 --> 00:47:58,719
Speaker 2: differ for those that don't know from the first one.

1009
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:02,200
Speaker 4: For the space Balls fans in the audience. This is

1010
00:48:02,239 --> 00:48:04,440
Speaker 4: sprawl ball to the quest from our money. If you

1011
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:08,760
Speaker 4: don't know that, you should go watch space Balls tonight.

1012
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:15,200
Speaker 4: But there with that, No, Honestly, you know, I have

1013
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:18,399
Speaker 4: been obsessed with the change in the NBA since I've

1014
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:21,560
Speaker 4: been watching it, and I think, unlike any other major sport,

1015
00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:25,319
Speaker 4: like the drastic metamorphosis pro basketball since since the four

1016
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:28,799
Speaker 4: of us have been watching it so closely is remarkable,

1017
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:31,840
Speaker 4: And I hadn't seen anybody really tell that story of

1018
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:35,600
Speaker 4: how the modern NBA was sort of invented, and so

1019
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:39,160
Speaker 4: I really wanted to capture this drastic sort of metamorphosis

1020
00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:41,759
Speaker 4: in the game. But also in the same way that

1021
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:44,359
Speaker 4: like an art historian or a music historian might look

1022
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:48,160
Speaker 4: at how Miles Davis changed jazz, like looking at how

1023
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:51,879
Speaker 4: players invented the modern NBA, starting with Michael Jordan talking

1024
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:54,560
Speaker 4: about alan I Everson, even players like Bruce Bowen in

1025
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:58,520
Speaker 4: the corner three and Dirk Novitski bringing skills to the

1026
00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:00,960
Speaker 4: front court that we would have never met in the

1027
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:03,040
Speaker 4: Bill Wennington area era. Tright.

1028
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:07,120
Speaker 5: But I also think, like, yeah, I feel like Brad

1029
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:09,120
Speaker 5: Miller and then lost to history, you know, one of

1030
00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:10,800
Speaker 5: the first to be shooting threes from the top of

1031
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:12,600
Speaker 5: the key. I didn't see his chapter in then, but

1032
00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:14,160
Speaker 5: maybe in the expanded edition.

1033
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:18,120
Speaker 4: Brad Miller, that's right. Miles Turner owes him a debt

1034
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:21,719
Speaker 4: of gratitude. That's the exact kind of influencer that we're

1035
00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:24,279
Speaker 4: talking about, and I guess in today's parlance, that's the

1036
00:49:24,320 --> 00:49:27,760
Speaker 4: word the influencers of the modern NBA, and how Dirk

1037
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:31,720
Speaker 4: sort of created some of Jokich's thing, how Iverson created

1038
00:49:31,719 --> 00:49:35,720
Speaker 4: some Akyrie and Staff's moves, and obviously how Michael created

1039
00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:39,759
Speaker 4: Kobe and then Kobe inspired Devin Booker and James Harden

1040
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:42,600
Speaker 4: and Russell Westbrook those are signed. That's the sort of

1041
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:48,440
Speaker 4: biton handoff and innovation and reformation that Who Battless is

1042
00:49:48,480 --> 00:49:50,319
Speaker 4: all about. But ultimately, I just wanted to tell the

1043
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:53,120
Speaker 4: story of how the modern NBA has changed and who

1044
00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:55,840
Speaker 4: did what to change it. And the coolest thing about

1045
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:57,680
Speaker 4: that is it's some of the greatest players of all

1046
00:49:57,719 --> 00:50:02,040
Speaker 4: time who are responsible for changing it. One of my

1047
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:05,720
Speaker 4: favorite chapters is about how Stephen Curry works with his trainer,

1048
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:09,040
Speaker 4: Brandon Payne and uses technology and some of the smartest

1049
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:13,080
Speaker 4: workouts in pro basketball to develop his three point shooting

1050
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:16,040
Speaker 4: arsenal and it's really cool in its very twenty first

1051
00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:18,719
Speaker 4: century story. Another huge part of the book is about

1052
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:22,600
Speaker 4: Montagenobli inventing and not inventing, but bringing the euro step

1053
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:25,400
Speaker 4: in on how that was often called a travel in

1054
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:28,440
Speaker 4: the early two thousands and now how Lebron and Joannis

1055
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:31,600
Speaker 4: are using it on a nightly basis. So I just

1056
00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:34,520
Speaker 4: wanted to capture that and sort of pay tribute to

1057
00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:38,160
Speaker 4: the titans of pro basketball that change the sport forever

1058
00:50:38,239 --> 00:50:39,600
Speaker 4: since we've been following it. Guys.

1059
00:50:39,719 --> 00:50:41,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's referred to as a love letter to the

1060
00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:45,839
Speaker 2: game's greatest innovators, which is an awesome way to put it.

1061
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:48,400
Speaker 2: I love that did you You said? Do you Have?

1062
00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:50,319
Speaker 2: Is the favorite chapter, Steph Curry, because I was going

1063
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:53,399
Speaker 2: to ask you that, of all these influencers that sort

1064
00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:55,520
Speaker 2: of have sort of had an impact on the game,

1065
00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:57,600
Speaker 2: was there a favorite player to write about or to

1066
00:50:57,680 --> 00:50:58,160
Speaker 2: dig into.

1067
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:01,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, honestly, I think the Stephan one is cool because

1068
00:51:01,719 --> 00:51:03,439
Speaker 4: I got to go watch and work out in Palo

1069
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:06,080
Speaker 4: Alto a few times, and it is crazy. I've seen

1070
00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:08,120
Speaker 4: a lot of basketball practices in my life and I've

1071
00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:12,200
Speaker 4: never seen this one one so smart and so unique

1072
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:17,000
Speaker 4: is watching Brandon Payne and Stephan work out. They do

1073
00:51:17,080 --> 00:51:18,680
Speaker 4: a couple things that I'll share with you that I

1074
00:51:18,719 --> 00:51:20,960
Speaker 4: write about in the book. Like they don't shoot a

1075
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:23,919
Speaker 4: shot until Steph's heart rate is at game heart rate.

1076
00:51:24,160 --> 00:51:27,320
Speaker 4: He's like shooting shooting with a resting heart rate is

1077
00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:29,480
Speaker 4: a waste of time because that's not game like. So

1078
00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:31,600
Speaker 4: they never shoot with the resting heart rate. He never

1079
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:34,200
Speaker 4: shoots the same shot twice in a row from the

1080
00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:37,120
Speaker 4: same spot. And they used this sensor that hangs down

1081
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:40,359
Speaker 4: from the ceiling in and points into the rim called

1082
00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:42,680
Speaker 4: the NOAs sensor you guys might have heard of, to

1083
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:45,279
Speaker 4: look at not just make some misses, but where in

1084
00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:49,160
Speaker 4: the rim the basketball went. And so Stephan, one of

1085
00:51:49,160 --> 00:51:51,880
Speaker 4: the ways he's sharpened his skills is even some of

1086
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:55,960
Speaker 4: his wishes don't count his clean makes for him in practice,

1087
00:51:56,000 --> 00:51:58,279
Speaker 4: he has to be like within an inch or two

1088
00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:01,319
Speaker 4: of the bullseye of the targets, so you can think

1089
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:04,319
Speaker 4: of this more like a strike zone. And he's thinking

1090
00:52:04,360 --> 00:52:08,440
Speaker 4: about shot location like we think about pitch location in baseball,

1091
00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:10,840
Speaker 4: and he wants his shots to be at the bullseye.

1092
00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:14,520
Speaker 4: So it's one of the more remarkable stories in the

1093
00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:19,200
Speaker 4: book is how Stephan has used incredible workouts and may

1094
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:22,400
Speaker 4: practice smarter. We talk about practice makes perfect, and I

1095
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:24,200
Speaker 4: say in the book, this is what happens when you

1096
00:52:24,239 --> 00:52:28,440
Speaker 4: make practice perfect. He has become just such an interesting

1097
00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:33,759
Speaker 4: skill acquisition guy, player development guy. So that's probably the

1098
00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:35,960
Speaker 4: best chapter if I had to say, that's.

1099
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:38,919
Speaker 2: Cool, and like, I want to know, because the illustrations

1100
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:44,239
Speaker 2: in this by Aaron Dana are incredible. How closely do

1101
00:52:44,320 --> 00:52:48,360
Speaker 2: you work with Aaron on the illustrations and the shot

1102
00:52:48,440 --> 00:52:51,480
Speaker 2: charts and all of that stuff. Did he almost like,

1103
00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:52,960
Speaker 2: sort of in a weird way, write this book with

1104
00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:54,920
Speaker 2: you or is it more like, okay, you give it

1105
00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:56,279
Speaker 2: to him and see what he comes up with.

1106
00:52:57,360 --> 00:53:00,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, we we're very close friends. And Aaron and I

1107
00:53:00,600 --> 00:53:03,359
Speaker 4: have I'll show on to the audience. This is one

1108
00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:06,520
Speaker 4: of my favorites. We're talking about heliocentric basketball and this

1109
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:08,800
Speaker 4: is a good example where we show Neil de grass

1110
00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:11,760
Speaker 4: Tyson looking at Harden as the center of the solar

1111
00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:16,600
Speaker 4: system with Daryl Moury orbit taking around. But Aaron and I,

1112
00:53:16,680 --> 00:53:19,799
Speaker 4: you know, really come up with these ideas. He comes

1113
00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:22,600
Speaker 4: up with many of them in themselves. And then I'm like, man,

1114
00:53:22,680 --> 00:53:25,280
Speaker 4: what if Neil de grass Tyson was talking about helio

1115
00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:28,680
Speaker 4: centric basketball? What would that look like? And so he

1116
00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:31,960
Speaker 4: really gives the book the soul, just like with Sprawlball.

1117
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:35,399
Speaker 4: You know, I learned that in the Grantland era. Guys.

1118
00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:38,120
Speaker 4: I met Aaron through Grantland where we figured out like

1119
00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:41,000
Speaker 4: blending cool illustrations. And you guys have some great artwork

1120
00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:44,040
Speaker 4: in your studio. We share a fondness for these like

1121
00:53:44,120 --> 00:53:48,080
Speaker 4: basketball artists, right, but they really can can give this

1122
00:53:48,160 --> 00:53:51,839
Speaker 4: book and this project or a story some more soul,

1123
00:53:51,920 --> 00:53:54,480
Speaker 4: and Aaron is one of the best in sports at

1124
00:53:54,520 --> 00:53:56,800
Speaker 4: doing that. So he's a huge part of this book

1125
00:53:56,840 --> 00:53:59,640
Speaker 4: and I couldn't be more thrilled with the way it looks.

1126
00:53:59,680 --> 00:53:59,759
Speaker 6: Well.

1127
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:03,359
Speaker 2: Congratulations again everybody joining us live, everybody listening to the pod,

1128
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:06,000
Speaker 2: Go do yourself a favor. Go buy hoop Atlas. We'll

1129
00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:08,480
Speaker 2: get that link in the show notes. What's the easiest

1130
00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:11,080
Speaker 2: way for people to either get the book, Kirk or

1131
00:54:11,080 --> 00:54:12,280
Speaker 2: at least follow your work.

1132
00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:15,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, you can find me on Twitter at Kirk Goldsbury

1133
00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:17,719
Speaker 4: and you can find the links to hoop Atless there

1134
00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:21,359
Speaker 4: or obviously Amazon. I support independent booksellers, so if there's

1135
00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:26,160
Speaker 4: a cool bookstore in Toronto or Atlanta or Austin. Go there,

1136
00:54:26,280 --> 00:54:29,520
Speaker 4: support those guys. Excuse me, but find me on social

1137
00:54:29,640 --> 00:54:31,840
Speaker 4: with my name Kirk Goldsbury and thanks for you guys

1138
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:33,399
Speaker 4: for helping me support the book here.

1139
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:35,960
Speaker 2: Thanks so much, Kirk. Thanks for jumping on talking hoops

1140
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:37,799
Speaker 2: and we'll talk to you in the future. Man, Take care,

1141
00:54:37,840 --> 00:54:39,520
Speaker 2: good luck with all your other showy time guys.

1142
00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:40,439
Speaker 5: Yeah here, Kirk.

1143
00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:43,520
Speaker 2: All right, Kirk Goldsberry, hoop atless, go get it. It

1144
00:54:43,640 --> 00:54:45,960
Speaker 2: is U Honestly, I'm only halfway through it, but it's

1145
00:54:45,960 --> 00:54:48,600
Speaker 2: even better than sprawl Ball. Okay, there I said it.

1146
00:54:48,719 --> 00:54:49,879
Speaker 5: Yeah, it starts with the Jordan chapter.

1147
00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:52,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, that's right, all right, quick half hour

1148
00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:54,759
Speaker 2: with Kirk. Yeah, I know, and I knew that was

1149
00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:55,680
Speaker 2: going to happen exactly.

1150
00:54:55,800 --> 00:54:57,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, too much excitement.

1151
00:54:57,280 --> 00:54:59,520
Speaker 2: I start talking hoops. Somebody that knows hoops, you're going

1152
00:54:59,560 --> 00:55:01,719
Speaker 2: to talk for it. That's how it goes. Well, then

1153
00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:03,719
Speaker 2: let's make this somewhat quick. I guess let's get to

1154
00:55:03,719 --> 00:55:08,680
Speaker 2: our last conference semifinals preview. Celtics dropped a home game

1155
00:55:08,719 --> 00:55:10,600
Speaker 2: in the first round, but they won their other four

1156
00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:13,520
Speaker 2: games by an average of twenty two points, taking care

1157
00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:16,040
Speaker 2: of business against the Miami Heat the next test. It

1158
00:55:16,040 --> 00:55:18,720
Speaker 2: could be a little tougher here. Boston took the season

1159
00:55:18,760 --> 00:55:22,040
Speaker 2: series versus Cleveland two to one, though all three games

1160
00:55:22,239 --> 00:55:24,719
Speaker 2: we're within five points in the last five minutes, so

1161
00:55:24,719 --> 00:55:27,320
Speaker 2: we had some close games here. Game one is tonight.

1162
00:55:28,080 --> 00:55:30,439
Speaker 2: We've been doing this for all of these series. What's

1163
00:55:30,440 --> 00:55:33,080
Speaker 2: one thing to watch here in Boston Cleveland in the

1164
00:55:33,120 --> 00:55:33,640
Speaker 2: second round.

1165
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:36,680
Speaker 3: I'm going with an Evan Mobley watch because I think

1166
00:55:36,719 --> 00:55:39,359
Speaker 3: he's gonna be important on both ends. On offense. He's

1167
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:43,319
Speaker 3: going to have to screen for Donovan Mitchell a lot. Now.

1168
00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:46,520
Speaker 3: Jared Allen's probably hurt, probably going to come off the

1169
00:55:46,520 --> 00:55:49,160
Speaker 3: bench if he ever starts playing in this series, and

1170
00:55:49,200 --> 00:55:52,800
Speaker 3: he's the better screener of him and Mobley, that's for sure.

1171
00:55:53,080 --> 00:55:56,759
Speaker 3: But it's going to be up to Mobile to free

1172
00:55:56,800 --> 00:55:58,680
Speaker 3: donvn Mitchell. I see the Celtics being able to fight

1173
00:55:58,680 --> 00:56:01,319
Speaker 3: through all those screens there. You know, whoever it is

1174
00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:04,040
Speaker 3: guarding him, it could be you know, it could be

1175
00:56:04,080 --> 00:56:06,239
Speaker 3: Donovan Mitchell at times, but they've got so many guys.

1176
00:56:06,239 --> 00:56:07,839
Speaker 3: It could be Derek White, it could be Jaylen Brown.

1177
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:12,040
Speaker 3: I mean, the backcourt of the Cleveland Cavaliers and Mitchell

1178
00:56:12,040 --> 00:56:13,920
Speaker 3: and Garland has to be freed up by Evan Mobley

1179
00:56:14,080 --> 00:56:15,520
Speaker 3: On the defensive end. I think he's going to be

1180
00:56:15,560 --> 00:56:19,520
Speaker 3: pretty important too, because he is going to be so

1181
00:56:19,680 --> 00:56:21,279
Speaker 3: good at guarding at the three point line, and I

1182
00:56:21,320 --> 00:56:23,279
Speaker 3: think that helps the Cleveland Cavaliers. I think he's better

1183
00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:26,960
Speaker 3: than Jared Allen in a series like this because the

1184
00:56:27,080 --> 00:56:29,239
Speaker 3: Celtics just get it out and they spray from the

1185
00:56:29,239 --> 00:56:31,160
Speaker 3: three point line, and Mobley is just so good at

1186
00:56:31,160 --> 00:56:34,239
Speaker 3: guarding everywhere he scrambles he gets out there, and that

1187
00:56:34,280 --> 00:56:36,560
Speaker 3: could stop the playmaking of Boston a little bit, just

1188
00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:38,480
Speaker 3: like they did against the Mine or the Heat did

1189
00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:40,840
Speaker 3: to them in that one game where they were just

1190
00:56:40,920 --> 00:56:43,080
Speaker 3: so good and the Celtics played a little one on

1191
00:56:43,080 --> 00:56:44,960
Speaker 3: one because of it. Now, that's a lot to ask

1192
00:56:45,040 --> 00:56:47,799
Speaker 3: of Evan Mobley. That's a lot, and Tatum might try

1193
00:56:47,840 --> 00:56:50,279
Speaker 3: and say, hey, I want that guy and go through

1194
00:56:50,320 --> 00:56:53,000
Speaker 3: Mobiley a lot that could happen. He could pick that switch,

1195
00:56:53,000 --> 00:56:55,319
Speaker 3: get him in foul trouble. But it's just going to

1196
00:56:55,320 --> 00:56:58,160
Speaker 3: be a lot on that dude, especially with Jared Allen injured.

1197
00:56:58,239 --> 00:57:01,640
Speaker 3: So we'll see. I'm both ends. He's big.

1198
00:57:01,880 --> 00:57:05,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, No, porzingis no Allen at least probably to start

1199
00:57:05,120 --> 00:57:06,920
Speaker 5: this series, so you're assuming a lot of five out

1200
00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:09,920
Speaker 5: on both ends, which means Mobiley should be able to

1201
00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:12,239
Speaker 5: have an impact as a rim runner. They need him

1202
00:57:12,280 --> 00:57:14,400
Speaker 5: on the glass. He had a sixteen rebound game in

1203
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:17,320
Speaker 5: Game seven that was huge, thirteen in game five, but

1204
00:57:17,400 --> 00:57:20,040
Speaker 5: only six in game six. He's not always a big rebounder.

1205
00:57:20,080 --> 00:57:23,080
Speaker 5: They need him on the boards, they need him defensively.

1206
00:57:23,160 --> 00:57:25,720
Speaker 5: If he's the best big in this series, basically between

1207
00:57:25,880 --> 00:57:28,720
Speaker 5: him and Al Horford with no porzingis out there, that's

1208
00:57:28,760 --> 00:57:31,720
Speaker 5: great for Cleveland. Something I'm watching, Who's garden Donovan Mitchell.

1209
00:57:31,960 --> 00:57:34,800
Speaker 5: Celtics have a lot of options, like you would be

1210
00:57:34,840 --> 00:57:39,560
Speaker 5: happy with Drew Holliday, Jalen Brown, Derek White, even Jason

1211
00:57:39,760 --> 00:57:42,880
Speaker 5: ja sure Teatum's big. Maybe he's not quite quick enough

1212
00:57:42,920 --> 00:57:45,800
Speaker 5: to keep up with Mitchell for the entirety the series,

1213
00:57:45,840 --> 00:57:48,120
Speaker 5: but possessions here and there. The size is going to

1214
00:57:48,160 --> 00:57:50,560
Speaker 5: be a problem for Mitchell, So it'll be interesting to

1215
00:57:50,560 --> 00:57:53,400
Speaker 5: see how Mitchell attacks that and if he's able to

1216
00:57:53,400 --> 00:57:56,520
Speaker 5: elevate his teammates, because really, the way the Cavaliers win

1217
00:57:56,640 --> 00:57:58,520
Speaker 5: this is the same way the Heat won their one

1218
00:57:58,600 --> 00:58:00,840
Speaker 5: game have a hot shooting night and hope the Celtics

1219
00:58:00,880 --> 00:58:01,760
Speaker 5: don't shoot the ball up.

1220
00:58:01,920 --> 00:58:04,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I'm watching here to piggyback off you.

1221
00:58:04,160 --> 00:58:06,200
Speaker 2: It's like, can Donovan Mitchell get some help because he's

1222
00:58:06,200 --> 00:58:08,720
Speaker 2: gonna need it. All those defenders he's gonna see. I mean,

1223
00:58:08,760 --> 00:58:11,280
Speaker 2: he's gonna try his best to score, you know, thirty five, forty,

1224
00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:16,040
Speaker 2: maybe flirt with another fifty in them. But somebody, Garland Mobley,

1225
00:58:16,240 --> 00:58:19,520
Speaker 2: some of these shooters have to hit shots. It can't

1226
00:58:19,560 --> 00:58:21,400
Speaker 2: just be him. If we're gonna have a competitive series,

1227
00:58:21,440 --> 00:58:23,440
Speaker 2: if we're gonna have even some close games again, or

1228
00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:26,560
Speaker 2: maybe a longer series. Because we saw what the cass

1229
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:29,280
Speaker 2: did against the Magic, who are an elite defensive team.

1230
00:58:29,480 --> 00:58:32,160
Speaker 2: They struggled, especially when they were on the road and

1231
00:58:32,200 --> 00:58:34,919
Speaker 2: at times in that series. The Celtics are a better

1232
00:58:34,960 --> 00:58:38,240
Speaker 2: defense than the Orlando Magic, which sounds crazy to say,

1233
00:58:38,280 --> 00:58:41,760
Speaker 2: but they are. So who's gonna step up and help

1234
00:58:42,960 --> 00:58:46,080
Speaker 2: out Mitchell? I mean, like, you gotta start putting your

1235
00:58:46,160 --> 00:58:48,680
Speaker 2: arm around Darius Garland right now, Donovan Mitchell, start talking

1236
00:58:48,720 --> 00:58:50,880
Speaker 2: him up right now, because he has to have a

1237
00:58:50,920 --> 00:58:53,280
Speaker 2: better series, more of an impact, at least in terms

1238
00:58:53,320 --> 00:58:54,880
Speaker 2: of looking for a shot and scoring and hitting some

1239
00:58:54,960 --> 00:58:57,200
Speaker 2: three just opening up a little bit of room there

1240
00:58:57,200 --> 00:58:59,520
Speaker 2: for Donovan to operate. So definitely watching that. If we're

1241
00:58:59,520 --> 00:59:01,240
Speaker 2: gonna get a petitive one, do you have an X

1242
00:59:01,280 --> 00:59:02,320
Speaker 2: factor in the.

1243
00:59:02,360 --> 00:59:05,320
Speaker 3: Series, Well, I'm gonna stick with Garland because yes, don

1244
00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:07,920
Speaker 3: Mitchell needs a air quotes number two and maybe the

1245
00:59:07,960 --> 00:59:10,480
Speaker 3: three point shooters will help a little bit. But Garland

1246
00:59:10,520 --> 00:59:12,959
Speaker 3: has to be way better if they're going to match

1247
00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:16,160
Speaker 3: with the Boston Celtics. He just wasn't able to be

1248
00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:21,680
Speaker 3: extremely comfortable in that series against the Magic. And listen

1249
00:59:21,680 --> 00:59:24,280
Speaker 3: to the guys that are good to guard Darius Garland.

1250
00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:26,760
Speaker 3: I mean it could be Derek White. Yeah, it's the

1251
00:59:26,800 --> 00:59:30,000
Speaker 3: exact same guys. There's no weakness there and that's this

1252
00:59:30,080 --> 00:59:33,120
Speaker 3: is the exact reason that they got Drew Holliday. Derek

1253
00:59:33,160 --> 00:59:36,320
Speaker 3: White has been awesome. I mean he has to outperform

1254
00:59:36,400 --> 00:59:39,720
Speaker 3: Derek White, which is not easy. Derek White was awesome

1255
00:59:39,800 --> 00:59:42,919
Speaker 3: in the first series and we kind of skip over

1256
00:59:42,960 --> 00:59:45,840
Speaker 3: that because they did such a good job against everybody

1257
00:59:45,920 --> 00:59:48,320
Speaker 3: did a good job. But he almost said half his threes,

1258
00:59:48,520 --> 00:59:50,800
Speaker 3: that's that's a lot of threes averaging twenty two points.

1259
00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:56,280
Speaker 3: So Trey's right in that somebody's got a out due

1260
00:59:56,440 --> 00:59:58,800
Speaker 3: probably Al Horford and Evan Mobley and some same thing

1261
00:59:58,800 --> 01:00:01,640
Speaker 3: goes for the backcourt those because Boston's just so good.

1262
01:00:01,680 --> 01:00:06,480
Speaker 3: So Garland has a lot on his shoulders in this one.

1263
01:00:06,960 --> 01:00:08,560
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's nice for him though. He only has to

1264
01:00:08,560 --> 01:00:11,760
Speaker 5: go against the second best perimeter defense for the Boston Celtics,

1265
01:00:11,760 --> 01:00:14,640
Speaker 5: who will probably be an all defensive player. And then

1266
01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:17,400
Speaker 5: on the other side, like they're gonna go at Garland defensively,

1267
01:00:17,400 --> 01:00:19,360
Speaker 5: they're gonna post him up, get him on switches, and

1268
01:00:19,840 --> 01:00:21,640
Speaker 5: that's just a problem. So he needs to score, he

1269
01:00:21,640 --> 01:00:23,200
Speaker 5: needs to hit some threes, and he can't turn over

1270
01:00:23,240 --> 01:00:26,120
Speaker 5: the ball. The X factor for me is health all around.

1271
01:00:26,280 --> 01:00:28,120
Speaker 5: For the Celtics, it's all about staying healthy for the

1272
01:00:28,120 --> 01:00:30,400
Speaker 5: next round. Yeah, you know, they smashed the heat it

1273
01:00:30,440 --> 01:00:32,560
Speaker 5: was an easy series for them, but they did lose Porzingis,

1274
01:00:32,560 --> 01:00:37,280
Speaker 5: which was their hugest X factor. So taking care of business,

1275
01:00:37,400 --> 01:00:39,320
Speaker 5: getting the series done with quickly, I think is big

1276
01:00:39,360 --> 01:00:41,480
Speaker 5: time for Boston in this one. On the other side,

1277
01:00:41,600 --> 01:00:44,360
Speaker 5: Jared Allen's health and Dean Wade's health I think are

1278
01:00:44,520 --> 01:00:47,160
Speaker 5: kind of big. Dean Wade hasn't played since March eighth.

1279
01:00:47,400 --> 01:00:50,480
Speaker 5: He's already ruled out of Game one with a sprained knee.

1280
01:00:50,840 --> 01:00:53,680
Speaker 5: The one Cleveland win this season against the Celtics was

1281
01:00:53,720 --> 01:00:55,760
Speaker 5: when Dean Wade went five to five from three in

1282
01:00:55,800 --> 01:00:58,960
Speaker 5: the fourth quarter, scored twenty points, and then was basically

1283
01:00:59,000 --> 01:01:01,840
Speaker 5: done for the year after that. Jared Allen more likely

1284
01:01:01,920 --> 01:01:04,520
Speaker 5: that he comes back, though he's missed the last three games.

1285
01:01:04,560 --> 01:01:07,600
Speaker 5: Just the bruised rib, though, could return. And here's a

1286
01:01:07,640 --> 01:01:10,040
Speaker 5: Shuman stat for you over the first Over the three

1287
01:01:10,120 --> 01:01:12,680
Speaker 5: regular season meetings, the Cavs were outscored by just one point,

1288
01:01:12,720 --> 01:01:14,560
Speaker 5: and Allen's one hundred and eleven minutes on the floor

1289
01:01:14,760 --> 01:01:18,360
Speaker 5: outscored by twenty five point three points per one hundred possessions.

1290
01:01:18,360 --> 01:01:20,280
Speaker 5: In his thirty three minutes off the floor. They need

1291
01:01:20,400 --> 01:01:22,800
Speaker 5: him to offensive rebound. That's a way you can maybe

1292
01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:26,480
Speaker 5: cause some problems for the Celtics. So without Jared Allen,

1293
01:01:26,560 --> 01:01:30,360
Speaker 5: we're likely without Dean Wade. It's gonna be tough in Cleveland.

1294
01:01:31,400 --> 01:01:33,600
Speaker 2: Celtics are twenty two and four by the way, without

1295
01:01:33,600 --> 01:01:36,520
Speaker 2: Porzingis this season. I don't think they can win a

1296
01:01:36,520 --> 01:01:39,520
Speaker 2: title without a healthy Kristeps Porzingis, but they have shown

1297
01:01:39,560 --> 01:01:42,240
Speaker 2: they're okay without him. Al Horford obviously slots in there

1298
01:01:42,240 --> 01:01:45,120
Speaker 2: and they have all this talent. Shoe notes that they

1299
01:01:45,120 --> 01:01:47,200
Speaker 2: had a ten to three mark in those games with

1300
01:01:47,240 --> 01:01:49,720
Speaker 2: out Porzingis against playoff teams, so they're, you know, really

1301
01:01:49,760 --> 01:01:52,280
Speaker 2: good record even against the good teams. Outscored their opponent's

1302
01:01:52,320 --> 01:01:54,480
Speaker 2: play eight point six points per one hundred possessions over

1303
01:01:54,480 --> 01:01:56,360
Speaker 2: those thirteen to two, So shout out to Shoe for that.

1304
01:01:56,400 --> 01:01:59,200
Speaker 2: So they've been really good without Porzingis through the regular season,

1305
01:01:59,360 --> 01:02:01,360
Speaker 2: even the one game or that they were missing them

1306
01:02:01,360 --> 01:02:03,160
Speaker 2: there in the Miami series. So we'll see if they

1307
01:02:03,160 --> 01:02:07,000
Speaker 2: can continue that. Sounds like after all that talking it through,

1308
01:02:07,080 --> 01:02:08,800
Speaker 2: I have a feeling where you're leaning towards this one

1309
01:02:08,840 --> 01:02:10,440
Speaker 2: and where a lot of people will be going. But

1310
01:02:10,480 --> 01:02:12,600
Speaker 2: what's your prediction for Celtics Cavs.

1311
01:02:12,680 --> 01:02:15,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, everybody unless you're a CAZ fan is picking the

1312
01:02:15,640 --> 01:02:17,760
Speaker 3: Boston Celtics in this series. That sort of makes sense.

1313
01:02:17,800 --> 01:02:22,320
Speaker 3: And yeah, just to jump on Trey's injury status, I'm

1314
01:02:22,440 --> 01:02:24,920
Speaker 3: looking forward to see how Donovan Mitchell plays period. I

1315
01:02:24,960 --> 01:02:28,040
Speaker 3: know he was good in Round one, but he didn't

1316
01:02:28,040 --> 01:02:30,960
Speaker 3: shoot well in Game seven. He carried the way, but

1317
01:02:31,600 --> 01:02:33,360
Speaker 3: we're talking about a guy who just had one day

1318
01:02:33,360 --> 01:02:35,920
Speaker 3: of rest against a team that's had a ton of rest.

1319
01:02:36,040 --> 01:02:39,200
Speaker 3: And yeah, not that I love talking about rest versus rust,

1320
01:02:39,480 --> 01:02:42,320
Speaker 3: but Donovan Mitchell is dealing with something in his knee

1321
01:02:42,880 --> 01:02:45,320
Speaker 3: and you could see some bad moments throughout this series.

1322
01:02:45,360 --> 01:02:47,800
Speaker 3: So I'm definitely concerned with that. I don't know if

1323
01:02:47,880 --> 01:02:51,280
Speaker 3: Jared Allen can play through that rib problem because he

1324
01:02:51,560 --> 01:02:54,280
Speaker 3: again in Game seven, I had the camera on Jared Allen.

1325
01:02:54,280 --> 01:02:56,360
Speaker 3: He didn't get up once he was sitting there, and

1326
01:02:56,400 --> 01:02:59,400
Speaker 3: I think that's an injury problem for Jared Allen. But

1327
01:02:59,440 --> 01:03:02,480
Speaker 3: I am just concerned Domind Mitchell. How are you gonna

1328
01:03:02,600 --> 01:03:05,840
Speaker 3: how are you gonna look against the team that's very,

1329
01:03:06,120 --> 01:03:08,240
Speaker 3: very fresh, And I don't think it's good. I don't

1330
01:03:08,240 --> 01:03:11,960
Speaker 3: think it's good at all. Five I think is conservative

1331
01:03:12,000 --> 01:03:13,600
Speaker 3: for me. I'm going Celtics in five.

1332
01:03:13,760 --> 01:03:16,200
Speaker 2: Okay, I feel like that's a very popular pick in

1333
01:03:16,240 --> 01:03:19,120
Speaker 2: this series. It makes sense where you're going, You're going

1334
01:03:19,200 --> 01:03:19,880
Speaker 2: sweep five.

1335
01:03:19,960 --> 01:03:22,400
Speaker 5: I'm going Celtics in five. Everybody assumes that there'll be

1336
01:03:22,400 --> 01:03:24,520
Speaker 5: one weird Celtics game when they give up a ton

1337
01:03:24,520 --> 01:03:26,960
Speaker 5: of threes, they look terrible. You're like, oh my goodness,

1338
01:03:27,000 --> 01:03:29,800
Speaker 5: could this team be beat then they just completely smash it.

1339
01:03:29,880 --> 01:03:32,320
Speaker 5: Mitchell was awesome in the second half of Game seven,

1340
01:03:32,400 --> 01:03:34,280
Speaker 5: so I think he's at least in a little bit

1341
01:03:34,320 --> 01:03:35,880
Speaker 5: of a flow. He scored what eighty nine over the

1342
01:03:35,960 --> 01:03:38,640
Speaker 5: last couple of games there, so he has been playing well.

1343
01:03:38,800 --> 01:03:40,600
Speaker 5: So I assume we'll see at least one big Donovan

1344
01:03:40,680 --> 01:03:43,480
Speaker 5: Mitchell game in this series. Hopefully for the Cavs, it

1345
01:03:43,520 --> 01:03:45,680
Speaker 5: comes the same night that their role players are hitting

1346
01:03:45,680 --> 01:03:47,760
Speaker 5: threes as well, because that's how they steal one Celtics

1347
01:03:47,840 --> 01:03:48,120
Speaker 5: in five.

1348
01:03:48,160 --> 01:03:48,640
Speaker 4: Sounds good.

1349
01:03:49,320 --> 01:03:51,480
Speaker 2: I like that pick. I'm probably going with Celtics and

1350
01:03:51,560 --> 01:03:53,640
Speaker 2: five as well. I guess if you're trying to talk

1351
01:03:53,680 --> 01:03:57,720
Speaker 2: yourself into a longer series, hell maybe even an upset

1352
01:03:57,760 --> 01:03:59,520
Speaker 2: of some sort, you can at least look at the

1353
01:03:59,600 --> 01:04:03,320
Speaker 2: rust rest stuff, right sure, coming into this Game one, especially,

1354
01:04:03,760 --> 01:04:07,520
Speaker 2: the cast have zero pressure heading into the series. Nobody's

1355
01:04:07,560 --> 01:04:10,080
Speaker 2: picking them, so there's nothing there to worry about. They've

1356
01:04:10,080 --> 01:04:12,720
Speaker 2: already seen an elite defense, so they've gone through the

1357
01:04:12,800 --> 01:04:15,360
Speaker 2: ringer a bit in that first round against the Magic.

1358
01:04:15,440 --> 01:04:17,920
Speaker 2: Now continue to play the Celtics, so there's some reps there.

1359
01:04:17,960 --> 01:04:19,840
Speaker 2: It's not like they're playing like an up and down

1360
01:04:19,840 --> 01:04:21,919
Speaker 2: team like the Pacers, and then suddenly you're like, holy crap,

1361
01:04:21,920 --> 01:04:23,680
Speaker 2: we're playing a team that plays defense, so they have that,

1362
01:04:23,840 --> 01:04:26,320
Speaker 2: and you have Donovan Mitchell, who's yeah, on an incredible

1363
01:04:26,320 --> 01:04:28,200
Speaker 2: two game run here, going for eighty nine points in

1364
01:04:28,240 --> 01:04:31,160
Speaker 2: game six and seven despite being a little banged up.

1365
01:04:31,160 --> 01:04:33,720
Speaker 2: So like you can convince yourself, you talk yourself into

1366
01:04:34,240 --> 01:04:36,360
Speaker 2: I don't. Oh yeah, is there a crazy Max Strue

1367
01:04:36,440 --> 01:04:38,640
Speaker 2: game or Karis Lavert game where you can't miss? Maybe

1368
01:04:38,680 --> 01:04:42,480
Speaker 2: it's Garland. I want to almost go Celtics and six,

1369
01:04:42,480 --> 01:04:44,000
Speaker 2: but I'm gonna go with you, guys. I hate to

1370
01:04:44,040 --> 01:04:47,720
Speaker 2: do it. Celtics and five across the board. And even

1371
01:04:47,760 --> 01:04:50,360
Speaker 2: then people will be like, what, you're not picking a sweep?

1372
01:04:51,480 --> 01:04:54,800
Speaker 2: Come on, come on, They're not that bad. Donovan Mitchell's good.

1373
01:04:55,120 --> 01:04:57,120
Speaker 5: Has the Celtics team swept anybody?

1374
01:04:57,200 --> 01:05:00,240
Speaker 2: It feels rare. They play with their food a little bit,

1375
01:05:00,280 --> 01:05:02,720
Speaker 2: and yeah they have that weird one game. So Celtics

1376
01:05:02,720 --> 01:05:04,920
Speaker 2: and five for everybody here, let's hear from you in

1377
01:05:04,960 --> 01:05:07,440
Speaker 2: the stream team. Let us know in the comments, X

1378
01:05:07,440 --> 01:05:11,840
Speaker 2: factors things you're watching for Game one tonight in Boston. Okay,

1379
01:05:11,880 --> 01:05:13,520
Speaker 2: before we go, tweeted the.

1380
01:05:13,600 --> 01:05:20,040
Speaker 3: Night, tweet out the night Wow.

1381
01:05:20,760 --> 01:05:24,120
Speaker 5: Tweeted, the night comes to us from a local ten Sports.

1382
01:05:24,160 --> 01:05:29,480
Speaker 5: It's Pat Riley talking about Jimmy Butler at Riley's exit interview.

1383
01:05:30,520 --> 01:05:33,160
Speaker 6: You know, for him to say that, you know, I thought,

1384
01:05:34,600 --> 01:05:39,040
Speaker 6: is that Jimmy trolling? Or is that Jimmy serious? You know,

1385
01:05:39,480 --> 01:05:44,000
Speaker 6: if you're not on the court playing against Boston, around

1386
01:05:44,040 --> 01:05:46,280
Speaker 6: the court playing against the New York Knicks, you should

1387
01:05:46,320 --> 01:05:52,800
Speaker 6: keep your mouth shut and your criticism of those teams.

1388
01:05:52,840 --> 01:05:58,320
Speaker 5: Spicy pat calling out Jimmy Butler for Jimmy Butler. Yeah,

1389
01:05:59,400 --> 01:06:01,880
Speaker 5: like clip basically like, hey, what do you think about this?

1390
01:06:01,920 --> 01:06:04,200
Speaker 5: If I was playing, we would have beat both these teams.

1391
01:06:05,000 --> 01:06:07,840
Speaker 5: Pat Riley said, You're not playing, so shut up, keep.

1392
01:06:07,680 --> 01:06:08,960
Speaker 2: Your mouth shit.

1393
01:06:09,280 --> 01:06:16,160
Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah, but makes for a spicy off season, am

1394
01:06:16,200 --> 01:06:19,600
Speaker 5: I right? You've got Brian Windhorst reporting that the seventy

1395
01:06:19,640 --> 01:06:21,439
Speaker 5: six ers kind of had their eyes on Jimmy Butler

1396
01:06:21,520 --> 01:06:24,880
Speaker 5: alongside Paul George. Of course, John Hollander of The Athletic

1397
01:06:24,960 --> 01:06:28,640
Speaker 5: mentioned recently that Butler might become available in the thought

1398
01:06:28,680 --> 01:06:30,840
Speaker 5: it was pretty weird that the Heat are pushing Bam

1399
01:06:30,840 --> 01:06:33,160
Speaker 5: out of Bio, as their culture said, are like he's

1400
01:06:33,200 --> 01:06:36,040
Speaker 5: the main guy. Obviously, Bam has only been a heat

1401
01:06:36,080 --> 01:06:38,360
Speaker 5: throughout his career, but you definitely think of Butler as

1402
01:06:38,360 --> 01:06:42,080
Speaker 5: a heat culture kind of guy. Riley did say he

1403
01:06:42,120 --> 01:06:45,439
Speaker 5: wouldn't trade ye Jimmy Butler, but these guys lie a lot.

1404
01:06:45,880 --> 01:06:47,800
Speaker 5: He also said, we got a really good group of guys,

1405
01:06:47,840 --> 01:06:51,160
Speaker 5: and our number one issue is player of availability and

1406
01:06:51,280 --> 01:06:54,720
Speaker 5: having your guys playing every night. Clearly talking about Jimmy Butler.

1407
01:06:54,760 --> 01:06:57,520
Speaker 5: Jimmy's gonna be thirty five at the start of next season.

1408
01:06:57,760 --> 01:07:00,880
Speaker 5: Since getting to Miami, he's played fifty eight, fIF fifty two,

1409
01:07:00,920 --> 01:07:04,520
Speaker 5: fifty seven, sixty four and sixty games in this most

1410
01:07:04,800 --> 01:07:09,880
Speaker 5: regular this most recent regular season. So I don't know.

1411
01:07:10,120 --> 01:07:12,880
Speaker 5: It feels like his tenure is at least a little

1412
01:07:13,480 --> 01:07:17,240
Speaker 5: up in the air with Miami because Jimmy's extension eligible

1413
01:07:17,600 --> 01:07:20,640
Speaker 5: starting this summer. Right, well, happens if it doesn't go

1414
01:07:20,720 --> 01:07:23,240
Speaker 5: Jimmy's way, he doesn't get the contract he wants. Not

1415
01:07:23,320 --> 01:07:25,240
Speaker 5: a guy you like having unhappy in your camp.

1416
01:07:25,360 --> 01:07:27,720
Speaker 2: No, No, we've seen that story before in a couple

1417
01:07:27,760 --> 01:07:30,120
Speaker 2: of previous spots. Yeah, Butler has two years left on

1418
01:07:30,120 --> 01:07:32,640
Speaker 2: his current contract. He's got that player option for roughly

1419
01:07:32,680 --> 01:07:35,200
Speaker 2: fifty two million for the twenty five twenty six season,

1420
01:07:35,280 --> 01:07:38,840
Speaker 2: and Riley told reporters that, yeah, they haven't discussed internally

1421
01:07:39,120 --> 01:07:41,800
Speaker 2: the idea of an extension and what that would look like.

1422
01:07:42,480 --> 01:07:45,120
Speaker 2: What'd you make of Pat Riley saying keep your mouth shut,

1423
01:07:45,160 --> 01:07:46,120
Speaker 2: you're not playing well.

1424
01:07:46,160 --> 01:07:48,800
Speaker 3: I think you're you know, watching that whole Jimmy Butler interview,

1425
01:07:48,840 --> 01:07:51,840
Speaker 3: which was thirty seconds of a club Jimmy likes to talk.

1426
01:07:51,880 --> 01:07:53,480
Speaker 3: I mean, that's what it was. Yep, he was just

1427
01:07:53,800 --> 01:07:56,520
Speaker 3: he was just yapping because there was a difference in

1428
01:07:56,520 --> 01:07:59,080
Speaker 3: the way he said, if we're playing Boston, we'd beat them. Oh,

1429
01:07:59,120 --> 01:08:01,360
Speaker 3: New York, we would definitely beat them. There's a big

1430
01:08:01,360 --> 01:08:03,560
Speaker 3: difference there because he knows there's a way better shot

1431
01:08:03,560 --> 01:08:07,000
Speaker 3: against the Knicks than against the Celtics. And to go

1432
01:08:07,080 --> 01:08:10,000
Speaker 3: back to the idea of just Jimmy just talking. It

1433
01:08:10,040 --> 01:08:12,840
Speaker 3: was a one to one series with Miami and Boston.

1434
01:08:12,880 --> 01:08:14,840
Speaker 3: He got interviewed on the sideline and he said, we're

1435
01:08:14,880 --> 01:08:18,120
Speaker 3: going up to one. So that's kind of a juxtaposition.

1436
01:08:18,200 --> 01:08:20,200
Speaker 3: He thought that they were going to win without Jimmy Butler.

1437
01:08:20,240 --> 01:08:22,680
Speaker 3: I mean, he wasn't playing, so you know, he just

1438
01:08:22,720 --> 01:08:25,639
Speaker 3: likes talking. But I do think I do think Pat

1439
01:08:25,680 --> 01:08:29,400
Speaker 3: is basically saying or thinking. I wouldn't say saying, but

1440
01:08:30,080 --> 01:08:32,160
Speaker 3: he has to be thinking. You went through the stats,

1441
01:08:32,360 --> 01:08:35,559
Speaker 3: a guy's not going to play now when he's thirty four,

1442
01:08:35,720 --> 01:08:37,240
Speaker 3: he has two more years left, or we can assign

1443
01:08:37,320 --> 01:08:39,719
Speaker 3: him to a big extension. He has to be thinking

1444
01:08:39,800 --> 01:08:42,400
Speaker 3: right after I'm thinking that, why what.

1445
01:08:42,280 --> 01:08:43,439
Speaker 2: For a guy that can't stay healthy?

1446
01:08:43,520 --> 01:08:46,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, and he's literally just not playing, So two more

1447
01:08:46,320 --> 01:08:49,120
Speaker 3: years when he's going to be turning thirty seven, going

1448
01:08:49,160 --> 01:08:55,000
Speaker 3: into an ex straight the last an extension that's old.

1449
01:08:55,600 --> 01:08:58,519
Speaker 3: So yeah, if he gets pissed, I'm sure he could say,

1450
01:08:58,560 --> 01:09:00,519
Speaker 3: trade me somewhere else where, somebody will get me a

1451
01:09:00,560 --> 01:09:03,240
Speaker 3: contract that I probably they probably shouldn't be giving me

1452
01:09:03,320 --> 01:09:06,360
Speaker 3: because because you know, Tims played him through the ground

1453
01:09:06,640 --> 01:09:08,840
Speaker 3: or whatever. He's literally can't stay. He didn't look like

1454
01:09:08,880 --> 01:09:12,000
Speaker 3: Jimmy Butler in a lot of this season. He wasn't

1455
01:09:12,040 --> 01:09:13,160
Speaker 3: kicking ass like he was.

1456
01:09:14,240 --> 01:09:16,800
Speaker 2: He's usually the definition of a sixteen game player, not

1457
01:09:16,840 --> 01:09:18,960
Speaker 2: an eighty two game player. Yeah, but not this year

1458
01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:20,960
Speaker 2: because he didn't play really, he was three quarters of

1459
01:09:21,000 --> 01:09:23,479
Speaker 2: a game play. Yeah, yeah, that's right, that's right. So yeah,

1460
01:09:23,520 --> 01:09:25,960
Speaker 2: spicy stuff there from pat Riley, always telling it like

1461
01:09:25,960 --> 01:09:27,360
Speaker 2: it is, though he doesn't hold back either.

1462
01:09:27,800 --> 01:09:29,840
Speaker 5: I think Spicy p will catch out as a nickname

1463
01:09:29,880 --> 01:09:33,640
Speaker 5: for pat Riley. I doubt it. He also had some

1464
01:09:33,640 --> 01:09:36,960
Speaker 5: words for Tyler Herro what he'd play forty games, He's

1465
01:09:36,960 --> 01:09:39,160
Speaker 5: been fragile a little bit. He might have to go

1466
01:09:39,200 --> 01:09:40,720
Speaker 5: to another level nutritionally.

1467
01:09:40,840 --> 01:09:42,759
Speaker 2: I saw you tweeting that that was empty in the clip.

1468
01:09:42,920 --> 01:09:47,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, fragile for man, he doesn't like that.

1469
01:09:47,479 --> 01:09:50,120
Speaker 2: Pat Riley is over these guys not playing yes, and

1470
01:09:50,200 --> 01:09:52,040
Speaker 2: tired of being in the play in and having to

1471
01:09:52,080 --> 01:09:54,439
Speaker 2: come in that way, and like, you know, if we're healthy,

1472
01:09:54,479 --> 01:09:56,080
Speaker 2: we should be better, and maybe being one of the

1473
01:09:56,080 --> 01:09:58,200
Speaker 2: top teams in these company. He's definitely fed up with

1474
01:09:58,200 --> 01:09:58,720
Speaker 2: with all of this.

1475
01:09:58,840 --> 01:10:01,759
Speaker 5: Yeah, have you seen our la We're supposed to be nasty.

1476
01:10:01,800 --> 01:10:03,880
Speaker 5: We're not nasty. They should have put the healthiest team.

1477
01:10:03,880 --> 01:10:05,920
Speaker 5: Maybe their guys would play I will put it on

1478
01:10:05,920 --> 01:10:06,240
Speaker 5: the court.

1479
01:10:06,280 --> 01:10:08,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, maybe you see Bryn Forbes, he hit more

1480
01:10:08,840 --> 01:10:11,000
Speaker 3: threes than Jimmy Butler that one series.

1481
01:10:12,080 --> 01:10:16,440
Speaker 5: Remember, I mean that's a deep poll. I remember Brent.

1482
01:10:16,240 --> 01:10:19,080
Speaker 3: Forbes, that was the bad series. But yeah, pat Is

1483
01:10:19,800 --> 01:10:24,439
Speaker 3: to call him called Tyler hero, fragile, fragile, I mean

1484
01:10:24,479 --> 01:10:27,160
Speaker 3: that's what people have to do these days to stay healthy.

1485
01:10:27,160 --> 01:10:29,639
Speaker 3: We see a lot of guys who are healthy. I'm sorry,

1486
01:10:29,680 --> 01:10:32,439
Speaker 3: hurt right now. Going to the off season is important,

1487
01:10:32,439 --> 01:10:35,840
Speaker 3: That's what I'm I and all of Denver are thinking

1488
01:10:35,840 --> 01:10:38,320
Speaker 3: about Jamal Murray as well, like he has to get

1489
01:10:38,320 --> 01:10:40,200
Speaker 3: better to get back to that.

1490
01:10:40,439 --> 01:10:43,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm every Jamal Murray game I watch now, I'm like, well,

1491
01:10:43,560 --> 01:10:47,080
Speaker 2: he's not playing for Team Canada, so much for that.

1492
01:10:47,120 --> 01:10:51,479
Speaker 2: At least we got all these dogs on defense. We

1493
01:10:51,560 --> 01:10:55,880
Speaker 2: got Brooks, he scored on Team Canada and Parish. But yeah, no,

1494
01:10:56,000 --> 01:10:57,479
Speaker 2: it's a lot of banged up guys right now.

1495
01:10:57,520 --> 01:10:57,800
Speaker 6: For sure.

1496
01:10:57,800 --> 01:11:00,360
Speaker 2: It always has an impact on the postseason. Unfortunately. All right,

1497
01:11:00,400 --> 01:11:02,839
Speaker 2: let's call it there. Long show. Thanks again to Kirk Goldsberry.

1498
01:11:02,840 --> 01:11:04,800
Speaker 2: We're gonna drop the link in the show notes to

1499
01:11:04,800 --> 01:11:07,599
Speaker 2: go grab yourself a copy of Kirk's new book, hoop

1500
01:11:07,760 --> 01:11:10,000
Speaker 2: at List. Go check that out. Thanks again to him

1501
01:11:10,200 --> 01:11:12,040
Speaker 2: joining the show. We'll be back tomorrow. We've got two

1502
01:11:12,040 --> 01:11:14,720
Speaker 2: games on tonight, right, we got two game once, so

1503
01:11:14,800 --> 01:11:18,840
Speaker 2: two fresh series to dig into. It's Boston Cleveland and

1504
01:11:18,960 --> 01:11:21,880
Speaker 2: it's thunder Mavericks. Can't wait to talk about those. We'll

1505
01:11:21,880 --> 01:11:23,840
Speaker 2: be here at ten am Eastern until then, Clipper Bro.

1506
01:11:24,040 --> 01:11:26,360
Speaker 5: You heard it here first, have a great time, turn

1507
01:11:26,479 --> 01:11:28,440
Speaker 5: up love you guys, awesome.

1508
01:11:28,560 --> 01:11:30,800
Speaker 3: Thanks joining us. I remember, Let's give some Canadian love.

1509
01:11:31,040 --> 01:11:35,599
Speaker 3: The three great Canadians who played on Monday Nights playoff games. Nikhil,

1510
01:11:35,600 --> 01:11:39,280
Speaker 3: Alexander Walker, phenomenal Andrew Nemhart. He played really well, Yes

1511
01:11:39,320 --> 01:11:42,479
Speaker 3: he was sorry. Jamal Murray. It's not you the last one.

1512
01:11:43,040 --> 01:11:45,240
Speaker 3: You gotta go deep. You gotta go deep into garbage.

1513
01:11:45,360 --> 01:11:48,519
Speaker 2: Lenn Miller letter Leon Miller.

1514
01:11:48,880 --> 01:11:49,720
Speaker 5: I will sleep it.

1515
01:11:50,720 --> 01:11:52,880
Speaker 3: I'll be honest with you. He didn't score.

1516
01:11:55,680 --> 01:11:56,719
Speaker 2: Embrace the Day People,