1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:03,680 Speaker 1: You and Me Both is a production of I Heart Radio. 2 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:09,800 Speaker 1: I'm Hillary Clinton, and this is You and Me Both. Today, 3 00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:12,800 Speaker 1: I am speaking with Secretary of State Tony B. Lincoln 4 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:17,880 Speaker 1: about the incredible challenges and opportunities that he is facing 5 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 1: as our new Secretary of State. It's a thrill to 6 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:29,920 Speaker 1: see this serious, thoughtful diplomat assume this responsibility and bring 7 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 1: all of the experiences of a whole lifetime, but especially 8 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:36,840 Speaker 1: his adult working life, to the State Department on behalf 9 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:41,600 Speaker 1: of our country. So Secretary, blink and welcome. I cannot 10 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:44,920 Speaker 1: express how pleased I am to have this chance to 11 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:48,000 Speaker 1: talk with you. Thank you. I could not be happier 12 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:49,840 Speaker 1: to be able to spend some time with you. I've 13 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:51,960 Speaker 1: had the good fortune to have spent a lot of 14 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 1: time in these halls with you in the past, the 15 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 1: White House, over many years, but it's particularly fun to 16 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 1: be connected via the podcast. Oh I agree. So let 17 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:03,320 Speaker 1: me ask you what of your first few weeks as 18 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 1: Secretary of State look like and felt like to you? Well, 19 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: you know this better than anyone. It's a little bit 20 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:11,679 Speaker 1: like jumping onto a treadmill that's already moving in ten 21 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 1: miles an hour, And partly it's just trying to hold on. 22 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 1: But you know, we've obviously because of COVID, it's been 23 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:20,520 Speaker 1: a challenge, and there's a little bit of frustration that 24 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:24,000 Speaker 1: comes with that. I remember so well when you became secretary, 25 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:28,240 Speaker 1: you were off almost immediately on that airplane, visiting with 26 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:32,199 Speaker 1: working with engaging with our allies and partners and others 27 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:35,319 Speaker 1: around the world. I wish I could do the same thing, 28 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:38,119 Speaker 1: but we're grounded now. The good news is I've been 29 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 1: burning up the phone lines. I've been saying that it's 30 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:42,400 Speaker 1: a good thing the departments on the family plan. Otherwise 31 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 1: I put bankrupted the budget. So there's that. But of course, 32 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 1: you know as well as anyone better than anyone, it's 33 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 1: just not not the same thing. So I'm really looking 34 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 1: forward to being able to get out there. But what's 35 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 1: been so gratifying is, you know, because I've been doing 36 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 1: this for for a while. I started working for President Clinton, 37 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 1: uh and my first job was here at the State Department, 38 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 1: working in the front office of the European Affairs Bureau, 39 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:07,280 Speaker 1: And so I've known the men and women of the 40 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:10,639 Speaker 1: Department for a long time. And the greatest pleasure I've 41 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:13,680 Speaker 1: had since I'm back is just reconnecting with people that 42 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 1: you and I know so well. Well, I can imagine 43 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 1: what that's like for them as well, Secretary, because it's 44 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 1: been a tough four years for our Foreign service officers 45 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:29,400 Speaker 1: and our civil service officials, and it's important to do 46 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 1: what you're doing, which is spending time with them, talking 47 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:36,160 Speaker 1: with them, listening to them. I read where you said 48 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 1: you felt confident and humble, and I thought that was 49 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 1: a really good combination. As you embark on this important job. 50 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 1: You run a department with tens of thousands of Foreign 51 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:53,760 Speaker 1: Service officers, as I say, civil servant officials, and national 52 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 1: employees out around the world, and you've got to figure 53 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:00,799 Speaker 1: out how you're going to make all of that work, 54 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:04,320 Speaker 1: especially since I think it's fair to say you're facing 55 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:07,360 Speaker 1: a deficit, a deficit of trust and a deficit of 56 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:12,320 Speaker 1: you know, leadership that the prior administration left you. So 57 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:16,440 Speaker 1: how are you trying to prioritize the myriad of challenges 58 00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 1: and opportunities that you're looking at. Well, you know, you're 59 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:22,360 Speaker 1: exactly right that, in a sense, the first challenge is 60 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:24,960 Speaker 1: actually the building the institution, the men and women of 61 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:27,640 Speaker 1: the department, the Foreign Service officers, the civil servants, and 62 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 1: as you rightly point out, what we call locally employed staff, 63 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:33,720 Speaker 1: the thousands, the tens of thousands of extraordinary men and 64 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:36,240 Speaker 1: women from the countries that are hosting us who work 65 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:39,160 Speaker 1: with us and work force, and so one of the 66 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 1: things that's been so important in this early going is 67 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 1: to make it very clear to all of our colleagues 68 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 1: that we're going to be relying and depending on them 69 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:52,080 Speaker 1: their expertise, their experience, their professionalism. And so I think 70 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 1: one of the things we're gonna show and people will 71 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:56,440 Speaker 1: see in the weeks ahead as some of the senior 72 00:03:56,480 --> 00:04:00,080 Speaker 1: appointments are made, we're going to be relying heavily on 73 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 1: career professionals. They bring so much to the table, and 74 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 1: it would be really to operate with our hands tied 75 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 1: behind our backs if we didn't rely on that and 76 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 1: use that. The other piece, when it comes to the 77 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 1: institution itself, is, and this is something I feel very 78 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:19,160 Speaker 1: strongly about, we have to have a foreign service, we 79 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:21,919 Speaker 1: have to have career professionals, We have to have a 80 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 1: state department that looks like the country it represents, and 81 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:28,599 Speaker 1: that's been a real deficiency for a long long time. 82 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 1: So I'm about to appoint the very first Chief Diversity 83 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:36,360 Speaker 1: and Inclusion Officer will report directly of the Secretary of State. 84 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:39,160 Speaker 1: We're going to focus on making sure we're recruiting effectively, 85 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 1: we're retaining people, and that there's actual accountability for making progress. 86 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 1: If we get the human resource piece of this right, 87 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:49,599 Speaker 1: then we're going to be so much more effective around 88 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:51,920 Speaker 1: the world and representing the country and in carrying out 89 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 1: the president's foreign policy. Well, starting with the work you've begun, 90 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 1: I was fascinated about how both you and President Biden 91 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:04,040 Speaker 1: started close to home, reached out to our Canadian friends 92 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:08,479 Speaker 1: and our Mexican friends, And that's so important because establishing 93 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:11,920 Speaker 1: that strong relationship, especially during a time of COVID and 94 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 1: obviously what we have going on our southern border, makes 95 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 1: a lot of sense. But you and the President have 96 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 1: both reached out to Europe. How are our friends and 97 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 1: allies feeling with the new administration. Can you give us 98 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 1: any early updates on that? Well, I think it's it's 99 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:32,680 Speaker 1: fair to say that there's been a very warm welcome 100 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 1: for President Biden and for all of us who've who 101 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:39,800 Speaker 1: come along with him, and and you know, quite honestly, 102 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 1: a a thirst almost palpable for American engagement, and this 103 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:48,760 Speaker 1: is what I've heard in conversation after conversation. That doesn't 104 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 1: mean we don't have differences. We want to have problems 105 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 1: with one of challenges, but I think there's a recognition 106 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 1: that in fact they're better off when we're engaged, and 107 00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:00,359 Speaker 1: of course we're better off what we're thinking about the 108 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:02,599 Speaker 1: world that we're facing in confronting. I think two things 109 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 1: really stand out, and this is what animates the President's 110 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:08,240 Speaker 1: thinking and as a result animates are farm policy. The 111 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 1: first is, you know, whether we like it or not, 112 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 1: the world tends not to organize itself. And when we're 113 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:18,160 Speaker 1: engaged in leading, we can help advance our own interests 114 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:20,840 Speaker 1: in values. But when we're not, then one or two 115 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:23,400 Speaker 1: things is likely to happen. Either some other country is 116 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 1: going to try to take our place, but probably not 117 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:28,480 Speaker 1: in a way that advances the interesting values of the 118 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:31,440 Speaker 1: American people, or maybe just as bad no one does. 119 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 1: And then you've got a vacuum, and it's usually filled 120 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 1: by bad things before it's filled by good things. So 121 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:42,040 Speaker 1: that premium on American engagement is really there. But the related, 122 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:45,000 Speaker 1: maybe flip side of that is and again I know 123 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 1: this animated you so strongly as Secretary. When we look 124 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 1: at the things that are really going to have an 125 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 1: impact on our fellow citizens lives, whether it's it's climate change, 126 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:57,159 Speaker 1: whether it's this pandemic, whether it's the spread of a lethal, 127 00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 1: really dangerous weapon of mass destruction, we know that not 128 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:03,839 Speaker 1: a single one of those challenges can be effectively dealt 129 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:06,560 Speaker 1: with by any one country acting one, even the United States. 130 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:09,360 Speaker 1: And also that there really is no lall high enough 131 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 1: or wide enough to guard against those problems. So the 132 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 1: other premium we find is on cooperation and finding new 133 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 1: ways to get countries to work with us and to 134 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 1: work with them, And that's kind of where the State 135 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 1: Department comes in. That's our job. The job of diplomats 136 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:27,240 Speaker 1: is to try to build that cooperation among countries to 137 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 1: deal with the challenges that are actually going to have 138 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 1: an impact on the lives of our fellow citizens. Well, 139 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 1: that is exactly the definition of the job. And I 140 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:41,200 Speaker 1: hope that during your service that you, working with the 141 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 1: President and others in the administration, can make that case 142 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:49,160 Speaker 1: more effectively, because it's always a challenge to talk to 143 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 1: the American people about what it is diplomats do, what 144 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:56,560 Speaker 1: development means, why it makes a difference. People get the Pentagon, 145 00:07:56,680 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 1: they get the Defense Department, but they're not quite sure 146 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:03,440 Speaker 1: about what the other stuff is. And to that point, 147 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:08,080 Speaker 1: I know that there are so many crises and conflicts 148 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 1: that you are going to be facing, from Afghanistan to Ethiopia, Syria, Venezuela, 149 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:19,120 Speaker 1: and then some long term challenges posed by Russia and 150 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 1: most particularly China. And I was interested in some of 151 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 1: what you and the President have been saying about Russia 152 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 1: and how you're going to try to really send a 153 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 1: clear message to Vladimir Putin that you know, the former 154 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 1: president has gone, we're going to be, you know, imposing 155 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:44,840 Speaker 1: costs and consequences for behavior that is really out of bounds. Well, unfortunately, 156 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:47,320 Speaker 1: we've seen that in so many different areas. And the 157 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:51,080 Speaker 1: bottom line is if we're not standing up strongly when 158 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:53,440 Speaker 1: our interests are being challenged or when our values are 159 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 1: being challenged, that creates a feeling of impunity, and then 160 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 1: the bad conduct continues and gets worse. But in any 161 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 1: of these things, it's it's vitally important that we do 162 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:07,320 Speaker 1: it with our partners and allies. But just on Russia, 163 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 1: we are in the midst of reviewing a series of 164 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 1: egregious actions that they've taken. Whether it is this solar 165 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:18,760 Speaker 1: winds cyber attack that's been been written about, whether it 166 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:21,679 Speaker 1: is what they've done to one of Mr. Putin's leading 167 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 1: political opponents, Alessia Navalni, using a chemical weapon to try 168 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:29,080 Speaker 1: to kill him, whether it is these reports of the 169 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 1: Russians putting bounties on our troops in Afghanistan, whether it's 170 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:37,439 Speaker 1: something you are all too familiar with, interference in our elections. 171 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 1: We are looking at all of this, and I can 172 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 1: tell you with some confidence that we will take the 173 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:46,079 Speaker 1: appropriate actions as we see fit to make very clear 174 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:48,480 Speaker 1: that this kind of conduct is unacceptable for US, and 175 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 1: we'll do it with our allies and partners. At the 176 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:54,840 Speaker 1: same time, you know, we have other important stakes, including 177 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:57,360 Speaker 1: with Russia. One of those is what we call in 178 00:09:57,440 --> 00:10:01,080 Speaker 1: the business strategic stability, making sure that with our still 179 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 1: significant arsenals, particularly of nuclear weapons, that we don't do 180 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 1: things that actually make conflict and god forbid of nuclear 181 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:10,200 Speaker 1: exchange more likely. And so one of the very first 182 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:12,440 Speaker 1: things is, you know, the President Biden did is he 183 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 1: extended the soul remaining but very important agreement between the 184 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:19,080 Speaker 1: United States and Russia the so called news Start agreement 185 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 1: that puts significant limitations on our strategic nuclear arsenals, and 186 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 1: that's a very good thing for both countries, and we'll 187 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:27,319 Speaker 1: look for opportunities to do more. But I think we 188 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 1: have to be able to walk and chew gum at 189 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:32,200 Speaker 1: the same time stand up strongly against Russian aggression. Ukraine 190 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:35,960 Speaker 1: continues to be a huge problem given Russia's intervention there, 191 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:39,640 Speaker 1: but also look for opportunities if they present themselves to 192 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:45,520 Speaker 1: advance our security on things like nuclear weapons. We're taking 193 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:57,600 Speaker 1: a quick break, stay with us. It would also be 194 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:01,000 Speaker 1: really worth trying to get China for the first time 195 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:06,720 Speaker 1: into arms control agreements. How is the administration looking at China? 196 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:10,439 Speaker 1: Because again, we have to cooperate where we can on 197 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 1: climate change, on global health, but then there's all the 198 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:17,240 Speaker 1: rest that we have to take some strong stands over. 199 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 1: How are you thinking about China, Secretary? So as you 200 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:23,800 Speaker 1: know so well, it is both one of the most 201 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 1: complicated relationships in the world and arguably one of the most, 202 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 1: if not the most consequential, and I think it's important 203 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:34,200 Speaker 1: for people to see that there are different aspects to it. 204 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 1: There's an adversarial aspect, increasingly because China has been acting 205 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:42,840 Speaker 1: more aggressively beyond its borders and unfortunately more repressively within 206 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:46,880 Speaker 1: its borders. There's certainly a competitive aspect to it, but 207 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:49,560 Speaker 1: there's also a cooperative one because on some big issues, 208 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 1: including climate change, we both have an interest in finding 209 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 1: ways to work together. But here's the common denominator. Whether 210 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:58,360 Speaker 1: it's the adversarial piece, whether it's the competitive piece, whether 211 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 1: it's the cooper pies. We to be approaching China from 212 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:03,600 Speaker 1: a position of strength. And what I think that means 213 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:07,480 Speaker 1: is a few things. It means with our partners and allies, 214 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:11,200 Speaker 1: not without those alliances. Those partnerships are a source of 215 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:14,440 Speaker 1: strength in dealing with China. When we bring the collective 216 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:17,440 Speaker 1: weight of our partnerships and alliances to bear, it's a 217 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 1: lot harder for China to ignore. Also, as we as 218 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 1: we were talking about just a few minutes ago, being 219 00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:26,200 Speaker 1: engaged and leaning in as opposed to abdicating our responsibilities 220 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:28,600 Speaker 1: and pulling out of all of these international organizations that 221 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:31,360 Speaker 1: are actually shaping the rules that we all have to 222 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 1: live by. When we pull back, China fills in. When 223 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:37,600 Speaker 1: we're engaged and leading, that's a source of strength. Third 224 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:39,240 Speaker 1: is a source of strength for us to actually stand 225 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:41,720 Speaker 1: up for the values we believe in. So when we 226 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 1: see in chinging weaker as being put into concentration camps, 227 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:48,679 Speaker 1: when we see democracy being trampled in Hong Kong, it's 228 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:50,880 Speaker 1: important that we stand up and point that out, that 229 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:53,000 Speaker 1: we don't ignore it, and that we get others to 230 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:56,319 Speaker 1: join us. And then, finally, and maybe maybe most importantly, 231 00:12:56,760 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 1: we have to be investing in ourselves, in our own people, 232 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:01,840 Speaker 1: in our own workers, in our own companies, in our 233 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:05,520 Speaker 1: own competitiveness. Because if we do that, and if we 234 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 1: get a reasonably fair and level playing field, we're going 235 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:12,120 Speaker 1: to do just fine in the competition. I have tremendous confidence. 236 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:15,160 Speaker 1: But if we don't do it, that's going to allow 237 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:17,040 Speaker 1: China to be acting from position strength and not the 238 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 1: United States. Oh and there's a last thing too that 239 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:21,400 Speaker 1: I think it is so important. We also have to 240 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 1: be strong and resilient in terms of our own democracy, 241 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:29,640 Speaker 1: because when we're questioning our own institutions, when we're attacking 242 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 1: each other, that is the surest way to undermine the 243 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:36,280 Speaker 1: strength that we need to bring to this strategic competition 244 00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:39,680 Speaker 1: with China. So I hope, particularly because this really is 245 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:42,840 Speaker 1: in many ways of bipartisan challenge. I hope that we 246 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 1: can come together so we can do this smartly, effectively 247 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 1: and advance the interests of the country. Well, it needs 248 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:54,440 Speaker 1: to be bipartisan, even nonpartisan, because how we structure our 249 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:59,479 Speaker 1: relationship with China going forward will have such serious implications. 250 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:04,679 Speaker 1: And you have several times stressed the importance of our alliances, 251 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:09,199 Speaker 1: working with our partners, and the significance of international agreements. 252 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:13,520 Speaker 1: And I was really delighted to see that the administration 253 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:17,680 Speaker 1: quickly went back into the Paris Accord on climate change, 254 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 1: and I know you'll be working very hard on that, 255 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 1: and you're also working to see if we can somehow 256 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:28,680 Speaker 1: reconstitute the Iran Agreement that you know, put a lid 257 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 1: on Iran's efforts to get a nuclear arsenal. And just 258 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 1: to go to that point you made about working with others, 259 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:37,600 Speaker 1: you know, when I was in the Senate for eight years, 260 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 1: I voted for every sanction against Iran that was ever 261 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:43,840 Speaker 1: put up for a vote, and you were there working 262 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 1: with Senator Biden at that time, and we did everything 263 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 1: we could to try to limit their options, to put 264 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 1: pressure on them, but without the world it didn't matter. 265 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 1: And so As Secretary, I started working to put together 266 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 1: international sanction, which then the U N. Security Council passed 267 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:07,239 Speaker 1: in June, and we began negotiations which were then completed 268 00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:11,600 Speaker 1: in the second term of President Obama. And what people 269 00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 1: who pop up and talk about international agreements often really 270 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 1: do an injustice to our understanding, is to act as 271 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 1: though there's a perfect agreement somewhere and all we have 272 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:25,360 Speaker 1: to do is, you know, pick up a rock and 273 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 1: find it. You know, negotiations are difficult, they are time consuming, 274 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:34,920 Speaker 1: and oftentimes you don't get a PC, but you get 275 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:37,640 Speaker 1: as much as you can. And with the Iran Agreement, 276 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 1: I think we got a long way towards stopping Iran 277 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:44,000 Speaker 1: from getting a nuclear weapon, all of which was then 278 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 1: thrown out the window by the Trump administration. So do 279 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 1: you look to see how you're going to be able 280 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 1: to bring that alliance back together, which included China and 281 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 1: Russia by the way, UH to try to prevent Iran 282 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 1: from getting a nuclear weapon resolutely. And and to your point, 283 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:06,040 Speaker 1: I think it really is important to understand that by definition, 284 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 1: negotiations are always going to be imperfect. No one gets 285 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 1: of what they want. But as President Biden likes to say, 286 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 1: don't compare me to to the almighty compared to the alternative, 287 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 1: and that's really important. So the foundation that you set 288 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:21,080 Speaker 1: first in the Senate but then as a Secretary of 289 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 1: State is what allowed us to get the agreement that 290 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 1: we reached, and I feel very strongly that that was 291 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:30,840 Speaker 1: the right thing to do, because, as we both know, 292 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:35,160 Speaker 1: before the agreement, Iran was speeding toward the day when 293 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:37,920 Speaker 1: it would have the ability to produce enough to all 294 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 1: material for a nuclear weapon on very short order time 295 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 1: we reached the agreement, it was getting down towards weeks, 296 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 1: and that would have given us a very very hard 297 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:50,600 Speaker 1: choice to face either between allowing that to happen and 298 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 1: Iran having a nuclear weapon or being on the threshold 299 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:55,840 Speaker 1: of having one and thus feeling it connect with even 300 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:59,880 Speaker 1: greater impunity, or maybe having to take military action with 301 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 1: all of the possible unintended consequences that flow from that, 302 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 1: to deal with it. And so I think the best 303 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:07,480 Speaker 1: answer that we came up with was the agreement that 304 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:09,760 Speaker 1: that was reached that put the nuclear program in a 305 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 1: box and that cut off its pathways to being able 306 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:14,919 Speaker 1: to produce the material it would need for a weapon, 307 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:18,520 Speaker 1: and push that so called breakout time past one year, 308 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 1: so that if they did start back in that direction, 309 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:23,520 Speaker 1: we've got plenty of time to organize the world and 310 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 1: to do something about it. We had very strong sanctions 311 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:30,320 Speaker 1: that were poised to snap back if Iran violated the agreement, 312 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:34,879 Speaker 1: and maybe most important, the most intrusive monitoring an inspections 313 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:38,160 Speaker 1: regime that we've ever had for any arms control agreement, 314 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:41,880 Speaker 1: and our own intelligence folks said that Iran was respecting 315 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:44,400 Speaker 1: its commitments, even it's doing a lot of other things 316 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,440 Speaker 1: that we don't like. So now after we got out 317 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:50,639 Speaker 1: of the deal, Rand felt, well, we can go ahead 318 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:53,240 Speaker 1: and no longer comply with the obligations that we undertook, 319 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:55,920 Speaker 1: and it is now getting back to that point where 320 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 1: it could produce the seal material for a weapon on 321 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:00,359 Speaker 1: very short order. So I think we have an interest 322 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:03,560 Speaker 1: in putting that back in a box and then seeing 323 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:07,120 Speaker 1: if we can actually build something even longer and stronger 324 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:09,719 Speaker 1: in terms of the duration of the agreement, and also 325 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:12,800 Speaker 1: dealing with some of the other actions that around takes 326 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:15,960 Speaker 1: that we have a real problem with ballistic missiles, the 327 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:18,800 Speaker 1: actions that takes in its neighborhood. The good news is 328 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:22,480 Speaker 1: because we've made a clear commitment that we're prepared to 329 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:25,840 Speaker 1: re engage in diplomacy. The very allies and partners we 330 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:28,200 Speaker 1: need and who are alienated from us because we got 331 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 1: out of the diplomacy business are now back with us, 332 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 1: and that means they're also prepared to join us in 333 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:37,760 Speaker 1: taking strong action is necessary against some of the other 334 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:40,920 Speaker 1: things Around does that that we don't like. So we'll see, 335 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:44,160 Speaker 1: we're a long way from getting back to where we were. 336 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 1: We we don't know what around will do or won't do, 337 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:50,560 Speaker 1: but I think that it offers at least the possibility 338 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:54,600 Speaker 1: of dealing with the nuclear problem, uh and then hopefully 339 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:56,960 Speaker 1: dealing with some of the other problems. When I look 340 00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:00,480 Speaker 1: around the world and I think about everything on your 341 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:03,959 Speaker 1: plate and all that you are going to be addressing 342 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:09,200 Speaker 1: as Secretary of State, it's these transnational, global problems that 343 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:13,400 Speaker 1: you cannot imagine dealing with unless you have the kind 344 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:17,040 Speaker 1: of attitude you've just expressed, Mr Secretary. You know, I 345 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:20,560 Speaker 1: worry a lot about the flow of migration, which we 346 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:24,480 Speaker 1: know is going to be exacerbated by climate change, and 347 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:27,439 Speaker 1: we need to bring the world together to do something 348 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:30,760 Speaker 1: we we used to do, you know, decades ago kind 349 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:36,440 Speaker 1: of look ahead somewhat, you know, convene some international efforts 350 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:39,960 Speaker 1: on several fronts. One, obviously, what do we do about 351 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 1: refugee flow? How do we try to deal with the 352 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:47,399 Speaker 1: problems in the host country. In our hemisphere, it's primarily 353 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:52,359 Speaker 1: now Central America, even more than Mexico, that is unfortunately 354 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:55,680 Speaker 1: seeing people flee for a better life moving north toward 355 00:19:55,720 --> 00:20:00,320 Speaker 1: our border. In Europe, it's you know, Syria, it's North Africa. Uh, 356 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:04,119 Speaker 1: it's Afghanistan. Can you think about some of the big 357 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 1: areas that maybe on a longer time frame, US Secretary, 358 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:12,639 Speaker 1: working with your counterparts around the world, could begin a 359 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:14,879 Speaker 1: process of trying to figure out what do we do 360 00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:18,720 Speaker 1: about refugees, What do we do about rebuilding the w 361 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 1: h O, getting better prepared for the next pandemic? What 362 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:25,879 Speaker 1: do we do to defend democracy? Those are three big 363 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 1: kind of cross cutting issues. Yeah. Absolutely, And it really 364 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:32,200 Speaker 1: does go back to what we started talking about, which 365 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 1: is both having a sense of humility and confidence at 366 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:36,280 Speaker 1: the same time. I think they're flip sides at the 367 00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 1: same point. Humility because we certainly don't get everything right ourselves, 368 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:43,159 Speaker 1: and a lot of these problems are also not in 369 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:45,920 Speaker 1: the first instance, necessarily about us, even as they affect us, 370 00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 1: and we can't just flip a switch and expect to 371 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:51,440 Speaker 1: solve them. But but confidence, because I still believe profoundly 372 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 1: as I know you did, that when the United States 373 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:56,240 Speaker 1: is acting at its best, we still have a greater 374 00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:59,280 Speaker 1: ability than any country on Earth to mobilize others in 375 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:02,520 Speaker 1: collective action, to bring other countries together to try to 376 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:06,760 Speaker 1: solve problems. And the big ones you just outlined are 377 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:09,040 Speaker 1: actually having a real effect on the lives of our 378 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:11,160 Speaker 1: fellow citizens, so we have an interest in in doing 379 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:14,399 Speaker 1: something about them. The refugee situation, we have more people 380 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:16,720 Speaker 1: on the move around the planet than at any time 381 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:20,359 Speaker 1: since World War Two, about seventy million who have been 382 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 1: felt compelled to leave their homes in one place or another. 383 00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:27,600 Speaker 1: That's the magnitude of the problem, and by definition, no 384 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:30,879 Speaker 1: one country can tackle it alone. To your point, I 385 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:34,000 Speaker 1: think there's a lot that we can do collectively. For example, 386 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:36,119 Speaker 1: First of all, we want to try to do what 387 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:39,440 Speaker 1: we can with other countries to prevent and if necessary, 388 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:44,879 Speaker 1: end conflicts that are in many places forcing people to flee. Second, 389 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:48,640 Speaker 1: these countries that take them in remarkable generosity. If you 390 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:51,239 Speaker 1: you mentioned Syrian refugees. As you know, if you go 391 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:56,119 Speaker 1: to Turkey, to Lebanon to Jordan's you see populations that 392 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:58,720 Speaker 1: are in some cases a quarter of the population is 393 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 1: a Syrian refugee. That puts huge strain on local economies, 394 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:06,040 Speaker 1: on local resources. So I think collectively we have an 395 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:08,920 Speaker 1: interest in helping these countries the first refuge be able 396 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:11,359 Speaker 1: to care for the refugees who they have, because on average, 397 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 1: once someone's refugee, they tend to stay that way for 398 00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:16,960 Speaker 1: well over a decade. So we have to help these countries, 399 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:19,400 Speaker 1: and then we have to put in place the support. 400 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:21,360 Speaker 1: The financing in the United States has to do it's 401 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:23,600 Speaker 1: part as well. We have long been a beacon for 402 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 1: refugees around the world. That's something that I know the 403 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:29,840 Speaker 1: President is committed to restoring. But we also have to 404 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:33,160 Speaker 1: be very mindful of our own orders, our own security, 405 00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:37,920 Speaker 1: and we're very focused on that. Northern Triangle countries Guatemala, Salvador, Honduras, 406 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:42,120 Speaker 1: as you said, are increasingly the source of forced migration here, 407 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:45,800 Speaker 1: and what's the answer there. The main answer is really 408 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:48,360 Speaker 1: trying to deal with some of the so called root causes. 409 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:52,040 Speaker 1: You know, it's always amazed me. Some people seem to 410 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:55,040 Speaker 1: think in Washington, for example, that someone gets up in 411 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:57,120 Speaker 1: the morning and says, Gee, wouldn't this be a great 412 00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:00,440 Speaker 1: day to leave everything I know behind? To leave my language, 413 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:04,159 Speaker 1: my culture, my friends, my family, my city, put myself 414 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:07,440 Speaker 1: on the hands of traffickers, you know, take this incredibly 415 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:10,400 Speaker 1: hazardous journey, and then maybe go someplace where I don't 416 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:14,040 Speaker 1: know anyone and maybe I'm not so wanted. It takes 417 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:18,000 Speaker 1: something extraordinary to compel people to feel that that's the 418 00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:20,919 Speaker 1: only choice they have. So if you can help the 419 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:24,400 Speaker 1: countries in question deal with some of those drivers, deal 420 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:28,000 Speaker 1: with the corruption, deal with the crime uh and insecurity, 421 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:30,760 Speaker 1: deal with the lack of opportunity, and give people a 422 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 1: reason to stay home and help build the future of 423 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:36,480 Speaker 1: their own country, that ultimately is how you get to 424 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 1: the bottom this. But it takes time. It takes sustained effort, 425 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:42,040 Speaker 1: and that's something I know President Biden's committed to doing. 426 00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:57,920 Speaker 1: We'll be right back. Well, I know, um, you're gonna 427 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:01,040 Speaker 1: have to get onto the important business of state. But 428 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:04,680 Speaker 1: something that people don't know about you, although it's recently 429 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:07,960 Speaker 1: broken in the press, is that you have your own 430 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:13,240 Speaker 1: Spotify channel where you post music you've recorded, So I 431 00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:15,200 Speaker 1: have to ask, are you gonna be able to keep 432 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:19,200 Speaker 1: this going as Secretary of State and and maybe jam with, 433 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:22,840 Speaker 1: you know, other foreign ministers around the world, and even 434 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:26,200 Speaker 1: have a public performance on the eighth floor of the 435 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 1: State Department, where we do all of the entertaining. And 436 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:31,000 Speaker 1: it's hard to think of anything that would do more 437 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:34,359 Speaker 1: damage to our foreign policy or diplomacy than me doing that, 438 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 1: you know. Uh So I wouldn't inflick that on my 439 00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:41,560 Speaker 1: colleagues here or or or anyone abroad. It's been a 440 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:44,760 Speaker 1: lifelong passion something I'd taken immense enjoyment out of, you know. 441 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:47,120 Speaker 1: If I had a chance to actually do that as 442 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:49,200 Speaker 1: a career, I would have done it. And it turned 443 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:51,639 Speaker 1: out there was only one missing ingredient, which was talent. 444 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:56,200 Speaker 1: It turns out also that the only people who seem 445 00:24:56,280 --> 00:25:00,480 Speaker 1: to like or tolerate my music are extremely young children 446 00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:04,360 Speaker 1: who haven't yet to golop critical factory. That's that's that's 447 00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:07,359 Speaker 1: my demographical I'll play for my kids, but maybe not 448 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:10,320 Speaker 1: for anyone else. Well, keep playing for your kids. I 449 00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:12,399 Speaker 1: used to sing to my daughter when she was a 450 00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:15,199 Speaker 1: baby until she learned to talk, and it was a 451 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:20,040 Speaker 1: memorable tragic evening when I'm singing away to her, rocking 452 00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:22,040 Speaker 1: her before I put her to bed, and she reaches 453 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:24,720 Speaker 1: up and puts her little finger on my mouth and says, 454 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:28,760 Speaker 1: no sing, Mommy, no sing. So keep singing until you're 455 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:33,160 Speaker 1: told otherwise. And finally, what's the best advice you've gotten 456 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:38,280 Speaker 1: since you've started this amazing important job? You know, it's 457 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:41,480 Speaker 1: it's it's funny. I was thinking back, and actually it's 458 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:43,760 Speaker 1: really advice that I got when I first started working 459 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:47,199 Speaker 1: for President Clinton and first set foot actually in the 460 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 1: White House way back in And that's the advice that 461 00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:53,719 Speaker 1: stayed with me, and it still animates what I think 462 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:58,080 Speaker 1: about this job, which is, make sure you have reverence 463 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:02,399 Speaker 1: and appreciation or the institution that you're working in and 464 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:07,200 Speaker 1: helping the lead and that extraordinary responsibility opportunity of doing 465 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:09,680 Speaker 1: a job with the American flag behind you every day. 466 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:13,600 Speaker 1: But also never lose your sense of humor and never 467 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:16,080 Speaker 1: lose your sense of where you actually fit in to 468 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:19,600 Speaker 1: that larger scheme and larger sleep of history. And as 469 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,320 Speaker 1: long as you keep your eyes focused on both, you'll 470 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:25,879 Speaker 1: do okay. Well, that really resonates with me because the 471 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:29,919 Speaker 1: late Great George Schultz, who served in the positions that 472 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:32,640 Speaker 1: you hold and that I was honored to hold, came 473 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:36,000 Speaker 1: to see me one day in the Ceremonial office on 474 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:39,720 Speaker 1: the seventh floor, and he brought with him a teddy bear, 475 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,679 Speaker 1: and he said, you're gonna face a lot of serious issues. 476 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:46,719 Speaker 1: You're gonna have a lot of problems. It's not always 477 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:49,479 Speaker 1: going to go our way in the United States, so 478 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:53,080 Speaker 1: just do the best you can. But then remember, and 479 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:55,840 Speaker 1: he punched the little paw of the teddy bear, and 480 00:26:55,880 --> 00:27:02,840 Speaker 1: the teddy bear started to sing, don't worry, be happy. 481 00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:06,920 Speaker 1: That is, if I can find another one, Tony, I'll 482 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,399 Speaker 1: send it to you. I will look for I'm looking 483 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:12,679 Speaker 1: for it right now. And I can't resist because you 484 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:16,679 Speaker 1: mentioned George Schultz, who I revered also. And uh, you know. 485 00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:20,640 Speaker 1: The other wonderful story about Secretary Schultz was before one 486 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,439 Speaker 1: of our new ambassadors was sent off to post to 487 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:26,199 Speaker 1: represent the United States, he is Secretary would call them 488 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:28,800 Speaker 1: into that office, and you may remember he had a 489 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:31,840 Speaker 1: very large globe and he would ask them to point 490 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:34,720 Speaker 1: to their country on the globe. And so our new 491 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:39,000 Speaker 1: ambassador would try to find South Africa or or Poland, 492 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:42,680 Speaker 1: and he would gently correct them and put their finger 493 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:46,160 Speaker 1: on the United States. And maybe that's the other most 494 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:48,800 Speaker 1: important piece of advice that I've gotten, and it's from 495 00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:51,239 Speaker 1: the President of the United States, Joe Biden, which is 496 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:54,800 Speaker 1: ultimately our job is to be here on behalf of 497 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:57,520 Speaker 1: the American people and to make sure that everything we're 498 00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:01,560 Speaker 1: doing has them in mind. Anything we're doing around the world, 499 00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,440 Speaker 1: is it going in some way, maybe even some small way, 500 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:07,080 Speaker 1: going to make their life a little bit better, a 501 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:09,440 Speaker 1: little bit safer, a little bit more prosperous, a little 502 00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:12,520 Speaker 1: bit more hopeful. And if we keep that in mind, 503 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:14,639 Speaker 1: we'll have a good north star and be pretty grounded 504 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:17,199 Speaker 1: in what we do. Wow, that's a great way to 505 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:21,280 Speaker 1: end our conversation. I am so delighted to have this 506 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:23,960 Speaker 1: chance to talk with you, but I'm even more thrilled 507 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:27,840 Speaker 1: that you are serving in this capacity, Secretary B. Lincoln, 508 00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:32,320 Speaker 1: and I join every well meaning American and wishing you 509 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:35,400 Speaker 1: the very best as you tackle these problems on our behalf. 510 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,760 Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Thank you, madam, Secretary. Wonderful to 511 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:48,520 Speaker 1: be with you. I really hope that people will follow 512 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:52,600 Speaker 1: what the President, the Vice President and Secretary B. Lincoln 513 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:56,320 Speaker 1: are doing for our country because we talk about it 514 00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 1: as though it's foreign policy. But I think it's really 515 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:02,680 Speaker 1: important to stress that a lot of what happens in 516 00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:07,600 Speaker 1: the world, like a pandemic, like climate change, like refugees 517 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:12,480 Speaker 1: fleeing their own countries, has a direct impact on our 518 00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:17,760 Speaker 1: own country, our prosperity, our security. So I hope listeners 519 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:21,840 Speaker 1: will not think of foreign policy as being foreign, but 520 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:25,600 Speaker 1: being part of how we act in the world and 521 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:29,280 Speaker 1: how we try to make life better for Americans right 522 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:35,120 Speaker 1: here at home. On a slightly different note, I'm excited 523 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:38,200 Speaker 1: to share some news about an upcoming project, and it 524 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:41,479 Speaker 1: has to do with a secretary of state. You know, 525 00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:43,760 Speaker 1: I was a big fan of the mystery writer Louise 526 00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:47,400 Speaker 1: Penny before she and I became good friends, and now 527 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,520 Speaker 1: we are teaming up as co authors to write a 528 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:55,760 Speaker 1: political thriller about a secretary of state, well a fictional 529 00:29:55,840 --> 00:30:00,280 Speaker 1: secretary of state anyway, but obviously it draws on my 530 00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:04,479 Speaker 1: experiences and the experiences of others to tell a really 531 00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:08,200 Speaker 1: exciting story. The book is called State of Terror, and 532 00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:11,120 Speaker 1: it comes out on October twelfth of this year, and 533 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,640 Speaker 1: you can preorder it now. In the meantime, you can 534 00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:18,400 Speaker 1: listen to my interview with Louise from season one. The 535 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:22,680 Speaker 1: episode is called Books. Thanks so much for joining us 536 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:25,200 Speaker 1: this week. We'd love to hear from you with your 537 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:28,840 Speaker 1: thoughts on season two, your ideas for future episodes, or 538 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:32,280 Speaker 1: really anything else is on your mind. Just send an 539 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:40,120 Speaker 1: email to You and Me Both pod at gmail dot com. 540 00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:42,000 Speaker 1: You and Me Both is brought to you by my 541 00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:46,760 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. We're produced by Julie Subran, Kathleen Russo and 542 00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:51,240 Speaker 1: Lauren Peterson, with help from Juma Aberdeen, Nikki e tour, 543 00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:57,560 Speaker 1: Oscar Flores, Lindsay Hoffman, Brianna Johnson, Nick Merrill, Rob Russo, 544 00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:02,400 Speaker 1: and Lona Vel Moro. Our engineer is Zach McNeice and 545 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:06,880 Speaker 1: the original music is by Forest Gray. If you like 546 00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:10,040 Speaker 1: You and Me Both, please tell someone else about it. 547 00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:13,200 Speaker 1: And if you're not already a subscriber, what are you 548 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:16,480 Speaker 1: waiting for? You can subscribe to You and Me Both 549 00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:20,600 Speaker 1: on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 550 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:23,480 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. See you next week.