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Speaker 1: Hello, zeich Gang, and welcome to the end of the year.

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Speaker 1: During these two weeks surrounding Christmas and the New Year,

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Speaker 1: we take some time off. During the mornings, we'll run

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Speaker 1: some new holiday and end of the year content that

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Speaker 1: you can listen to while we're taking a break. This year,

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Speaker 1: we've got our review of the year at Movies Predictions

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Speaker 1: for the coming year Sanna University. We look back at

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Speaker 1: some holiday classics with Chris Croft, and so much good

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Speaker 1: stuff dropping in the mornings. In addition to all that

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Speaker 1: stuff in the afternoons where we would usually drop the

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Speaker 1: Trends episode, we are rerunning the ten most popular episodes

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Speaker 1: of this year according to you. You voted with your

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Speaker 1: dang years and we listened with ours. Actually, we looked

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Speaker 1: at the data we're spying on you. Honestly, I'm mostly

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Speaker 1: in this podcasting thing for the rich marketing data it

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Speaker 1: provides to me about each and every one of you.

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Speaker 1: At the end of the year, when I look back

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Speaker 1: to see what made the top ten, and this was

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Speaker 1: actually my favorite year to look back at. Our top

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Speaker 1: ten is full of episodes I feel like made it

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Speaker 1: because of a bunch of different reasons. There are some

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Speaker 1: episodes that dropped after huge news events. There are some

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Speaker 1: first episodes that dropped right after some hilarious news events,

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Speaker 1: some great new guests, some classic fan favorite guests, and

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Speaker 1: some new formats we tried out that we're very excited

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Speaker 1: to see that you guys enjoyed. Before we get into it,

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Speaker 1: I just want to thank you guys for once again

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Speaker 1: being such a cool community that's bloomed up around this

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Speaker 1: podcast we've been doing all these years. You guys repeatedly

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Speaker 1: make us proud. You're there for us when we go

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Speaker 1: through some really difficult shit. You show up at shows

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Speaker 1: of our guests, and we always get great reports from

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Speaker 1: our guests about our listeners. You are the rare podcast

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Speaker 1: audience that makes us extremely proud to have you as

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Speaker 1: listeners so far, So don't don't fuck this up, you guys,

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Speaker 1: all right, and here we are. The eighth most popular

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Speaker 1: episode of the year is called Icon number three, Miss

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Speaker 1: Piggy with Jamie Loftus. It dropped on December one of

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Speaker 1: this year. It's one of the aforementioned new formats that

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Speaker 1: we tried out. It features the always great Jamie Loftus

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Speaker 1: and Miss Piggy faking an orgasm.

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Speaker 2: Enjoy got Blueberry Mango I found.

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Speaker 3: I found it the other day.

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Speaker 2: I was like, all right up, yeah, Blue Map Call

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Speaker 2: Ourselves Group.

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Speaker 1: Remember those Intel commercials icons. The Blue Man Group is coming.

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Speaker 3: Is that on your list? Blue Man Group?

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Speaker 1: It's not, but it's just an added group ship.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Blue Man groups should definitely be on Blue Man Group.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's nothing funnier than a Blue Man Group revealed.

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Speaker 2: There's like a literary fiction writer who I really like.

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Speaker 2: I was on her Wikipedia page and it was like

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Speaker 2: she was formal She's divorced from a blue Man and

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Speaker 2: you're like, oh wow, You're like that's who that book

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Speaker 2: was about.

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Speaker 3: That's crazy because they're all like these like art dudes

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Speaker 3: from New York.

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Speaker 4: Is how it started, and then it just turned into

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Speaker 4: like a Vegas It was like such a New York thing.

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Speaker 2: I felt like, yeah, they're like like ex Brooklyn guys

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Speaker 2: who like needed work. And I was like, wow, she

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Speaker 2: got her heart stomped on by a blue Man.

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Speaker 4: That I hear you ought to know is actually about

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Speaker 4: Blueman Blue Man.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. Alanis Morisa, the founding Blue Man.

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Speaker 1: Hello the Internet, and welcome to this spinoff episode of Wait,

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Speaker 1: which we're calling the iconograph. Instead of looking at the

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Speaker 1: zeitgeist through current events, we're looking at it through the

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Speaker 1: lens of the powerful pop cultural wore cruxes that are

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Speaker 1: our icons. We use these characters to create meaning, to

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Speaker 1: build identity, to learn conversational French, to know the appropriate

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Speaker 1: sound to make when beating the ship out of our

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Speaker 1: long term boyfriend, which is there?

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Speaker 3: It is hell, that's right.

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Speaker 1: In this episode, we're talking piggies, Miss Piggy, if you're nasty,

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Speaker 1: and that's why I did leave it for you, Miles.

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Speaker 1: With apologies to Kermit the Frog and David Bowie's codpiece,

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Speaker 1: maybe the most famous and beloved of Jim Henson's creations,

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Speaker 1: Miss Piggy. I'm thrilled to be joined, as always by

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Speaker 1: my co host, mister Oh.

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Speaker 3: I love this. I love it.

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Speaker 4: I love its starting off, and I'm like, it's this,

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Speaker 4: that's not you know, we're habitual, habitual doing the show

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Speaker 4: one way. That's great, great. I love the topic, dude,

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Speaker 4: love a good love a good hy Yah.

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Speaker 1: It's like an earworm. It's like an earworm of a thing.

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Speaker 3: When you really get it like that.

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Speaker 4: It's smart, that's right, it's hitting it tingles the brain

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Speaker 4: a little bit little tease.

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Speaker 1: It is the first thing. It's the thing that crystallized

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Speaker 1: the character for Francos when he did like he improvised

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Speaker 1: that and was like, oh, this is when I understood

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Speaker 1: the character for the first time.

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Speaker 3: This guy. Oh fuck yeah, this is a character.

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Speaker 1: I found it well. That who you heard in the

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Speaker 1: background in her third seat one of the very faces

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Speaker 1: on Mount Zeitmore an Emmy nominated writer, artist, comedian behind

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Speaker 1: many of the most acclaimed podcasts like a Cast, Ghost Church,

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Speaker 1: The Bechdel Cast, Sixteenth Minute of Fame. She's the New

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Speaker 1: York Times best selling author of Raw Dolph. It's Jamie Loft, Jamie.

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Speaker 3: Yes, hell yeah, hell yeah? Feel good?

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Speaker 1: Right good? I feel good.

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Speaker 2: I don't think I've ever hit someone with the high yah.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just like a cute thing to do to

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Speaker 1: your partner, as long as you don't like fucking smash

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Speaker 1: those actually, I mean she like.

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Speaker 3: A powerful attack. She had likes so much.

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Speaker 1: Yea, and his arms.

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Speaker 3: Have you seen his arms?

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, he goes There have to be ones

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Speaker 2: where he just goes flying, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there is there, yeah, where he just goes flying

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Speaker 1: like it's a fucking explosion.

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Speaker 4: And a mission impossible, Like, and I get a YouTube

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Speaker 4: if there's like a Miss Piggy compilation just her fucking

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Speaker 4: ship up.

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Speaker 1: I found one earlier. Guys, thank you so much for joining.

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Speaker 1: Jamie so so excited to have you here for this.

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Speaker 1: I did hear your Bechdel Cast episode about the Muppet movie,

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Speaker 1: so I was like, gotta have Jamie on for Miss

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Speaker 1: Piggy because you're you're a Piggy Stan.

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Speaker 2: I'm a Piggy Stan. I wish, I wish I was

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Speaker 2: more like her, but I feel like everyone has their

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Speaker 2: inner Miss Piggy. But yeah, I really need to start, uh,

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Speaker 2: you know, really hitting people more.

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Speaker 1: I think that's that's what we're lying.

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Speaker 2: The main takeaway, Yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: And whatever. Voh she doesn't really understand French, but she

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Speaker 1: sprinkles it throughout and that's cute. Do you guys have

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Speaker 1: like a singular like, oh, that's when I when Miss

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Speaker 1: Piggy was crystallized for me in your memory. Like I

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Speaker 1: was looking back and I was like, oh, I think

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Speaker 1: the first time I encountered her was on those like

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Speaker 1: reading posters in elementary school classrooms like she was and

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Speaker 1: then that was the first time I encountered grown up

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Speaker 1: Miss Piggy because I knew Miss Piggy from Muppet Babies.

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Speaker 3: Right right right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 4: I think my for me, it probably starts like anyone

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Speaker 4: I was like, it was always Kermit and Miss Piggy.

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Speaker 3: In my mind.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so a couple I can't think of, Like even

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Speaker 4: if I knew Kermit before Miss Piggy. I feel like

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Speaker 4: to me they entered my brain at the same time,

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Speaker 4: even though I think, what Kermit, she didn't? It was

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Speaker 4: always Kermit first. But look, I was a kid, it

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Speaker 4: was the eighties. I didn't know shit, we're going to

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Speaker 4: get into it.

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Speaker 2: I think my my entry point to Miss Piggy. I

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Speaker 2: think the first Mubget thing I remember seeing is Mubget

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Speaker 2: Treasure Island. I have a vivid memory of getting into

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Speaker 2: a big fight with my cousin because we were fighting

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Speaker 2: over because the kid who plays Jim Hawkins, we both

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Speaker 2: had a crush on him, and we were fighting over

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Speaker 2: who gets to marry him.

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Speaker 1: And it was.

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Speaker 3: The marriage right and we start.

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Speaker 2: We would do that over every like boy protagonist, and

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Speaker 2: we also did it over There's a movie called Casper

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Speaker 2: A New Beginning, and there was an identical looking boy

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Speaker 2: that we were, we would just we would hie out

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Speaker 2: each other for this, like you know, mysterious child's hand

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Speaker 2: in marriage. So I remember miss piggying that muppy Christmas Carol.

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Speaker 2: I feel like I saw the movies before I saw

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Speaker 2: the ever saw the TV show right.

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Speaker 1: Real quick, some kind of icon bone fie D's because

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Speaker 1: last week we talked about how popular Arcle was that

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Speaker 1: you know, every season from season two through seven of

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Speaker 1: his show like destroyed. What the most watched TV in

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Speaker 1: modern times is? I think it was like pulling in

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Speaker 1: twenty to twenty seven million viewers a week. The most

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Speaker 1: viewed show currently is Monday Night Football at like sixteen

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Speaker 1: million people. I just want to read this description of

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Speaker 1: the Muppet Show. When it was on, It aired in

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Speaker 1: over one hundred countries and had a weekly worldwide audience

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Speaker 1: by nineteen seventy eight of two hundred and thirty five

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Speaker 1: million people. No fucking way stop, because it was everywhere.

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Speaker 1: It was like so global.

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Speaker 2: I feel like maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like

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Speaker 2: it up until fairly recently, I feel it was sort

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Speaker 2: of difficult to find old episodes of the Muppet Show.

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Speaker 2: I didn't see them until I was in college and

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Speaker 2: the guest they were pulling was like, yeah, so I

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Speaker 2: don't know, I feel like whatever, we don't have monoculture

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Speaker 2: at all anymore, but particularly like monoculture that was pulling

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Speaker 2: so many different kinds of people. As the host, like

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Speaker 2: I've I had the Rudolph narre Of episode had a

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Speaker 2: very strong impression of like they would have like Ballerinas

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Speaker 2: hosting shot culture to two hundred and thirty five million people.

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Speaker 2: That's nuts. It is a weird mix of high and low.

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Speaker 1: And then just for for my example, the thing that

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Speaker 1: proves to me the lasting power of like how iconic

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Speaker 1: the Muppets are. Something we were talking about was there's

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Speaker 1: that LCD sound System video for Dance Yourself Clean that

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Speaker 1: like every white guy is like, have you seen this?

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Speaker 1: Have you seen this YouTube video? It's like for Dance

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Speaker 1: Yourself Clean, but it's got Muppets in it, and the

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Speaker 1: video like objectively sucks. It's not a good video.

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Speaker 3: Was it? Like a few days ago?

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Speaker 4: You brought it up and we started watching it and

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Speaker 4: I was like, I had never seen it.

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Speaker 3: I was like this.

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Speaker 1: Brian was just and brought it up and was like

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Speaker 1: every white guy just like I didn't show this three

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Speaker 1: different white guys, and I was like, me too, and

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Speaker 1: then we watched it and we were like this sucks.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, guys, the City Puitier, like the guests they would

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Speaker 2: have on the show were absolutely like yeah, and everyone

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Speaker 2: is having the time of their lives, because how could

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Speaker 2: you not, like, it's just so cool. Harry Belafonte another

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Speaker 2: really good episode, just really.

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Speaker 5: Said made that a frintage. I just thought the image

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Speaker 5: of acting trash can it's funny believable that you know,

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Speaker 5: it's like Sney getting trash can. We shouldn't believe anything

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Speaker 5: you say in the chat.

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Speaker 3: Ship.

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Speaker 4: Wait, okay, I feel like I read Yeah the City.

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Speaker 1: When they had Nelson Mandela on.

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Speaker 3: After he died, was right, yeah, it's just the seen bears.

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Speaker 2: Well, the Harry Belafonte episode is genuinely great.

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Speaker 1: Yes, all right, So Miles, to your point of like,

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Speaker 1: Kermit was first, and then Miss Piggy, she was invented

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Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy four. Kermit came around in nineteen fifty five,

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Speaker 1: Ralph the Dog nineteen sixty two, and then Miss Piggy'

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Speaker 1: is like the next kind of iconic character. But Ralph

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Speaker 1: the Dog was like invented for a dog chow commercial.

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Speaker 1: It seems like a lot of these things were like

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Speaker 1: invented on an as needed basis. They were like, I

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Speaker 1: don't know, we need a girl one, let's do it.

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Speaker 1: Let's do the pig. And then they like kind of

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Speaker 1: iterate on it. But it's Kermit as old as fuck.

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Speaker 1: First of all, like the borderline problematic that they had

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Speaker 1: a relationship. But then seventy five Animal Sam, the Eagles,

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Speaker 1: Statler and Wald or the Swedish chef. Seventy six we

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Speaker 1: got Fozzy, which we can talk about Fozzy, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: they just seemed to do it on an as neya basis.

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Speaker 1: And then you know, now that puppet exists and now

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Speaker 1: we can like do stuff with that puppet. But I

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Speaker 1: want to talk before because you know.

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Speaker 2: The interesting phrasing, interesting phrasing.

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Speaker 1: We can do that, we can do stuff, we can

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Speaker 1: do that, we can think about it, we can create

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Speaker 1: backstories as we'll get into.

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Speaker 3: You can get it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, now we can do Now.

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Speaker 2: We can do stuff with that puppet. We can think

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Speaker 2: about it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I feel like Ralph the Dog has fallen off in

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Speaker 2: the public, like.

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Speaker 1: Falling off.

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Speaker 2: I don't dislike Ralph as I dislike other Muppets.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll get to that.

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Speaker 2: But I think he's fallen off a bit.

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Speaker 1: Not a not a huge fazzy fan from what I've.

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Speaker 2: Heard, not a huge fazzy fan. Fozzy is triggering for me.

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Speaker 1: Uh Miss for some reason, this tax stand up comedian

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Speaker 1: is triggering to somebody.

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Speaker 2: I fazy. Whenever I look, I can see Fozzy. If

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Speaker 2: I look in the mirror, I can't see. I can't

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Speaker 2: be around Fozzy. I see five Fozzies a night. It's

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Speaker 2: all Fozzies.

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Speaker 1: Miss Piggy wasn't actually a Jim Henson creation. She was

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Speaker 1: actually designed by Bonnie Ericsson, who this is somebody that

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Speaker 1: I didn't know about coming into this.

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Speaker 6: Uh.

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Speaker 1: She also like she's invented a bunch of the mascots

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Speaker 1: that are like still roaming NBA stadiums to this day.

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Speaker 1: Maybe her like it right up there with Miss Piggy,

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Speaker 1: depending on who you're talking to, the Philly Fanatic mascot

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Speaker 1: she designed.

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Speaker 3: Billy.

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Speaker 4: That makes perfect sense because that rocks The Philly Fanatic

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Speaker 4: does feel like something off a Henson show.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it has Henson vibes. I mean she was I

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Speaker 1: think like the director of the workshop, but on designing

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Speaker 1: the Philly Fanatic. She said, the managers approached us to

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Speaker 1: design a mascot who could encourage fans to bring their

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Speaker 1: families to the games. So we had to design a

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Speaker 1: character who was child friendly, was playful and a little irreverent,

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Speaker 1: but not too silly. We'd heard from the Phillies that

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Speaker 1: their crowd had booed the Easter Bunny. Was the challenge

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Speaker 1: to come up with something that was not going to

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Speaker 1: talk down to their audience. Like that is when you

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Speaker 1: think about it, fact she created a silly, billy child

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Speaker 1: muppet mascot that Philly has just completely embraced is such

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Speaker 1: an accomplishment that we just like take for granted.

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Speaker 2: And then when did the Philly Fanatic launch? Was it

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Speaker 2: like around the same time.

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Speaker 1: Around the same time. She kind of she was just

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Speaker 1: like fucking on fire for like four years. She created

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Speaker 1: I mean, she created Staaler and Waldorf, she created a

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Speaker 1: bunch of like really iconic characters, and she created Miss

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Speaker 1: pig So Miss Piggy's name was originally Miss Piggy Lee

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Speaker 1: as a reference to Peggy Lee, who was a jazz

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Speaker 1: singer who I wasn't that familiar with. I went and

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Speaker 1: listened to like her top songs on Apple Music, and

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Speaker 1: they're either Christmas songs or like wildly depressed.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, like rocking around the Christmas Tree? Is Peggy?

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Speaker 3: Is that Peggy?

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Speaker 2: And I was like, am I confusing? Who's you? Is

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Speaker 2: that Peggy?

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Speaker 1: Something fever is her? So that's that's her. But then

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Speaker 1: she has this one called is That All There Is?

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Speaker 2: Oh? I love that song. Oh it's dark.

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Speaker 1: It's like it tells the story of like being at

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Speaker 1: a Christmas party or at a birthday party when you're

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Speaker 1: young and like is that all there is? And going

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Speaker 1: to a circus and being like is that all there is?

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Speaker 1: And then she's like, and I know what you think,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna kill myself, But I know if I killed

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Speaker 1: myself as I was like going to the Pearly Gates,

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Speaker 1: I'd just be like, is that all there is? It's

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Speaker 1: a really dark shit which there's a lot of like

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Speaker 1: dark stuff in Piggy like written into her backstory that

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Speaker 1: I was not familiar with and didn't read to me.

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Speaker 2: I wonder if Peggy they ever like got like met her,

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Speaker 2: because I get it. I get why they didn't keep them.

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Speaker 1: That's why they had to. Yeah, she's threatened to sue

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Speaker 1: over the puppet. So Miss piggyly became simply Miss Piggy.

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Speaker 2: Now you'd be honored to have Miss Piggy associated but

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Speaker 2: untested if they're like, so there's this pig on TV,

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Speaker 2: and yeah, I get it. She's like, my sons are

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Speaker 2: already depressing, right.

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Speaker 1: Her boyfriend she started out, she's incredibly abusive. She started

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Speaker 1: out like as sort of a background character. She was

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Speaker 1: in like a sketch about Planet of the Apes where

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Speaker 1: it was like Planet of the Pigs, and she was

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Speaker 1: just like one of the characters. She had like little

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Speaker 1: button eyes. She didn't have her big like beautiful colored

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Speaker 1: iris eyes like a dollar's eyes. And she didn't sound

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Speaker 1: like herself yet it was she was at that time

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Speaker 1: played by Jerry Nelson doing just like a real standard

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Speaker 1: guy doing a girl voice.

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Speaker 3: It was just glue. It's just like you did that. Well, yeah,

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Speaker 3: I know it wasn't quite that good.

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Speaker 1: Sorry, I'm a professional voice man, but yeah, bit of

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Speaker 1: a voice, but it does. I mean, like I was

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Speaker 1: saying the uh so eloquently before about how they create

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Speaker 1: the puppet and that puppet exists and now they can

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Speaker 1: do stuff with that puppet. Uh, I do it's it

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Speaker 1: kind of reminds me of like SNL talent, Jamie. One

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Speaker 1: of my favorite of your obsessions is like when an

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Speaker 1: SNL person like shows up on the thing and then

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Speaker 1: two years later they look completely different.

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Speaker 2: They got the Veneers, they got.

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Speaker 1: The Veneers, they got the glow up.

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Speaker 2: They literally I like to like, Lord Michael slams your

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Speaker 2: head against the table and thought, he was like, I

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Speaker 2: guess you need.

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Speaker 3: You need new teeth now.

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Speaker 1: But I feel like if you can make their eyes bigger,

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Speaker 1: he probably would, right.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, give him the watch and we'll

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Speaker 2: call it. What's the movie the Clockwork Orange?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: But also this is second week in a row where

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Speaker 1: we're covering a character who became arguably the most iconic

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Speaker 1: thing from their world, and who starts out in the

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Speaker 1: background and then we watch as they just like grow

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Speaker 1: and grow as the public responds more and more to them.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I just I do think in terms of

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Speaker 1: like why we have Miss Piggy, it's like having the

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Speaker 1: multiple projects iterating, and then when they needed a female character,

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Speaker 1: they went to a woman who just like happened to

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Speaker 1: be a genius and was like inventing huge chunks of

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Speaker 1: popular culture in like just a few short years.

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Speaker 2: That's so I still can't get past two hundred and

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Speaker 2: thirty five million people.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, thirty five million people.

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Speaker 2: That is just like, wow, Okay, that's everybody. That's isn't

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Speaker 2: every person? That's everybody.

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Speaker 1: That's everyone in the world people, everyone in the world.

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Speaker 2: So people watching puppets on TV, like, that's that's nuts.

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Speaker 4: I mean, cause it is also I mean, like when

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Speaker 4: you think about it, Rkle had twenty something million for

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Speaker 4: a few years in America versus two hundred and thirty

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Speaker 4: five globally, and you're like, oh, that's why, Like I

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Speaker 4: feel like children now, like you chow a kid and wherever.

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Speaker 4: Most places like do you know this character? And they'd

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Speaker 4: be like miss Piggy and I'm like do you know

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Speaker 4: who this is? And They're like that's a man with

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Speaker 4: suspenders on? Right, So I'm like, that's circle, But that's fun.

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Speaker 4: You're just not cultured.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm also sure I'm guessing. I mean, I don't

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Speaker 2: know much about like Muppets internationally, but it must be

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Speaker 2: like there's so it's like such a double bowle show

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Speaker 2: that it's got to be super easy to adapt to.

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Speaker 2: It basically anywhere.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, puppets, Pupets are great.

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Speaker 1: Puppets are Puppets are great. Is also one of my

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Speaker 1: conclusions that I come to, like I was saying. Her

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Speaker 1: breakout moment came when oz improvised her trademark karate chop

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Speaker 1: during a scene with Kermit. Originally the script called for

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Speaker 1: a slap, but he decided to go with a karate chop,

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Speaker 1: which then allowed him to his quote is the script

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Speaker 1: called for Piggy to slap Kermit. Instead of a slap,

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Speaker 1: I gave him a funny karate hit. Somehow, that hit

400
00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:26,720
Speaker 1: crystallized her character for me, the coyness, hiding, the aggression,

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Speaker 1: the conflict of that love with her desire for a career,

402
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Speaker 1: her hunger for glamour image, her tremendous out and out ego.

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Speaker 1: Which it's just interesting that that was so foundational for

404
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Speaker 1: him because it's also the first thing, like my brain

405
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Speaker 1: spits out when I like think of miss Piggy. If

406
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Speaker 1: I like have to think of her doing something, it's

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Speaker 1: the karate chop.

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Speaker 2: It's so good. I love hearing like actors talk about

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Speaker 2: like they're silly ass character because it has to be

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Speaker 2: so I mean, and it is important but like it

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Speaker 2: has to sound so important. My favorite example of that is,

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Speaker 2: do you guys remember when Bill Ny he played mewtwo

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Speaker 2: in Detective Pikachu.

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Speaker 3: No, I mean I know, well.

415
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Speaker 2: He did, and I love sometimes I'll go if I

416
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Speaker 2: can watch his interviews about that movie for fun, because

417
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Speaker 2: he's just like when I fold about Mew two and

418
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Speaker 2: you're just like, You're like, yeah, man, you sound like

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Speaker 2: an idiot, but that is your job. Like I just

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Speaker 2: love it. Yeah, Like Frank Oz is like, how how

421
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Speaker 2: does the pig think? Where's she coming from?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, we're gonna be like and then this is it

423
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:37,600
Speaker 4: her frustration, She's trying to balance it all, her career,

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Speaker 4: her love life in this high Yah, I'm like, did

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Speaker 4: you really think that at the time?

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Speaker 3: Did you know?

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Speaker 4: It's just sort of like instinct as a performer, Like, okay, yes,

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Speaker 4: because I think a.

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Speaker 1: Lot of the cases, these moments of inspiration for these

430
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Speaker 1: kind of characters come when they're like like in this case,

431
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Speaker 1: it was just like I needed to do a thing,

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Speaker 1: and I did this instead of the thing that the

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Speaker 1: script called for. And then like it like kind of

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Speaker 1: all comes together with Rkle Like we were talking about

435
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Speaker 1: he like at the audition, he was like, I don't know,

436
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:08,640
Speaker 1: like I went out of body, like I blacked out

437
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Speaker 1: and like came to and I was like everyone was laughing, right,

438
00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:16,560
Speaker 1: Like that's also like Elvis, the character of Elvis, which

439
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:19,520
Speaker 1: like wasn't how he actually was as a bit because

440
00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:22,399
Speaker 1: he was like tanking this like he was like trying

441
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:24,520
Speaker 1: to sing a song and it was like all serious

442
00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:27,439
Speaker 1: and sad, and everyone's like, this guy fucking stinks. And

443
00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:30,159
Speaker 1: then he like started goofing around and doing the Elvis

444
00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:32,480
Speaker 1: voice and people were like do that, Like.

445
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:34,400
Speaker 3: I think, I fucking this is amazing.

446
00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:39,560
Speaker 1: I want this guy to fuck Borner. But I feel

447
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:41,800
Speaker 1: like it's like the creator needs to get out of

448
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,600
Speaker 1: their own way or something to like then have it

449
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:48,160
Speaker 1: all like come together. But yeah, so Frank Oz ends

450
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:51,440
Speaker 1: up being the person who plays Piggy. I always thought

451
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:54,120
Speaker 1: it was because Piggy and Fozzy fucking hated each other,

452
00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:58,760
Speaker 1: but Oz actually plays both of them, and so that's

453
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:02,959
Speaker 1: why they're never around at the same time. Jamie, do

454
00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:05,400
Speaker 1: you think there's any way this is the reason you hate.

455
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:09,240
Speaker 2: Fozzy Because if Fozzy's on screen.

456
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:12,400
Speaker 1: Like literally getting in the way of Kermit and.

457
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:16,840
Speaker 2: Pig more misfy. I just think Fozzy like needs to

458
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:19,919
Speaker 2: hang it up, Like I just it's hard for me.

459
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:24,520
Speaker 1: You think it's because he fucking sucks? Is that why?

460
00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:24,760
Speaker 7: Well?

461
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:26,960
Speaker 2: I think he's really he really stinks up the place

462
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:29,720
Speaker 2: for a number of reasons. But like if all the

463
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:32,200
Speaker 2: like a lot of the early Muppets movies are about

464
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:34,640
Speaker 2: them trying to make it big, and it's like Fozzy

465
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:37,240
Speaker 2: is an active hindrance. I'm not rooting for his success.

466
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:42,960
Speaker 2: I like, he's not gonna make it. He's not gonna

467
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:45,800
Speaker 2: make it, and he's getting in everyone else's way, and

468
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 2: I need him to move back home. Where do they where?

469
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 2: Because I forget in the Muppet movie where you know he.

470
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:56,240
Speaker 1: Gets where they start from? Yeah, I forget. Yeah, It's

471
00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:59,119
Speaker 1: like somewhere isn't he along the way? Don't they like

472
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:01,960
Speaker 1: he is a I find from somewhere along the way,

473
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:06,240
Speaker 1: Like might just be an open mic yeah and go

474
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:07,000
Speaker 1: back el.

475
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:09,560
Speaker 3: Slezo Cafe, I think is what it was called.

476
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:13,080
Speaker 2: And realistically, Fozzy's got to go to grad school and

477
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:15,400
Speaker 2: like he just has to pack it up. He bums

478
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 2: me out.

479
00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:18,159
Speaker 4: I just love you would be a character in him

480
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:20,919
Speaker 4: up at film who plays like the bad Hollywood manager

481
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:23,360
Speaker 4: who's like, look, Kermit, you got to get rid of Fazzy.

482
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 3: He's getting in the way. He's an active hindrance to

483
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:26,480
Speaker 3: your career.

484
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:31,480
Speaker 2: Kid, he he's a star, Kirbit, You've got a natural charisma,

485
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 2: friend of.

486
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:36,080
Speaker 3: God, get rid of this fuck the manager.

487
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:38,359
Speaker 1: Isn't that like where managers come from, is they like

488
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:41,679
Speaker 1: fail and then they're like, well, hang out with these people.

489
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 2: Let's get Fozzy an internship at w M. Let's just

490
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:48,560
Speaker 2: figure something in.

491
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 3: The mail room. Yeah, work your way up.

492
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:52,920
Speaker 2: He could be Turtle Fazzy.

493
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:56,040
Speaker 1: I bet if you asked Fozzy which entourage character he was,

494
00:25:56,080 --> 00:26:03,240
Speaker 1: he'd be like, oh, I'm kind of evinced type fucking

495
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:05,919
Speaker 1: not dude, are you?

496
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:08,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, Fozzy and and and I don't know, I think,

497
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:11,239
Speaker 2: especially if I don't care if you like Fozzy, if

498
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:15,920
Speaker 2: Fozzy is your favorite, let's talk, because what does it mean.

499
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:19,600
Speaker 1: Fozzy can't be anyone's favorite at this point?

500
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 4: No, no, I remember, because Fozzy to me was like bummy.

501
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:26,320
Speaker 4: I didn't like his energy. I didn't like his fucking

502
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 4: tie or like scarf thing. They were just didn't appeal

503
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:32,679
Speaker 4: to me. Like I was Kermit Gang from the beginning.

504
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:38,640
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, Kermit has there's something about him. There's just

505
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:39,479
Speaker 2: something about that.

506
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 1: We do ask on every episode, like if they actually

507
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:49,199
Speaker 1: existed in reality in our world, would this icon have

508
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 1: been on the Epstein flight logs?

509
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:53,399
Speaker 3: Andzzy, as we've already.

510
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:58,160
Speaker 1: Covered Miss Freggy not on the flight logs, but take

511
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 1: another look for Fozzy. Yes, like there's it's only a

512
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:05,679
Speaker 1: matter of time. Like a failed comedian like he Fozzie

513
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 1: would be on fucking kill Tony who refuses to be

514
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:12,480
Speaker 1: in the same room as Miss Piggy as the woman

515
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:13,160
Speaker 1: in the group.

516
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:16,000
Speaker 2: Fozzie would do a private event in mar A Lago.

517
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:19,359
Speaker 2: He will, Yeah, he would have no issue about it.

518
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 2: And then he would say business is business.

519
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:22,720
Speaker 3: He's exactly.

520
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:26,919
Speaker 4: He's like, welcome to the Foston, Texas comedy scene, is

521
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 4: what you'd be telling people.

522
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:31,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he's lawless. He's like like all bad comedians,

523
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 2: he's gonna have to he's gonna you know, the only

524
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:37,679
Speaker 2: way for him to be successful is by going full fascist.

525
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, well and even then they're like this

526
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:41,880
Speaker 1: guy fucking stinks.

527
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's big game season. We're taking down fozz Fozzie

528
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:47,960
Speaker 2: Bear put his head on my wall.

529
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:04,400
Speaker 1: So to your about how seriously sometimes performers take their roles.

530
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 1: Frank Oz like says that like Piggy is his. He

531
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:10,879
Speaker 1: thinks Piggy was so successful because she's like got the

532
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:14,639
Speaker 1: most depth in the most going on, And he wrote

533
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:19,919
Speaker 1: a four page Stanislavskian analysis of Miss Piggy's life that

534
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:21,960
Speaker 1: is like so dark.

535
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:25,440
Speaker 2: It's Oh wait, did she have like a Charles entered

536
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:27,160
Speaker 2: him in cheese styles story?

537
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:30,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, she has kind of a fucked up backstory, all right,

538
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:34,200
Speaker 1: frank Oz. Although Miss Piggy's essentially humorous to me, She's

539
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:37,199
Speaker 1: had a sad, difficult, painful life. This is not for

540
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 1: the audience to know, but the puppeteers should know the

541
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 1: background of any good character in order to be able

542
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 1: to improvise. I thought we would get like an extensive

543
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 1: martial arts background, but it's actually like depressing dust bullshit.

544
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 1: According to Oz, Piggy grew up in a small town.

545
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 1: Her father died when she was young. Her mother wasn't

546
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 1: that nice to her. She had to enter beauty contests

547
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,480
Speaker 1: to survive. She has a lot of aggressiveness, but she

548
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 1: needs a lot to survive, as many single women do.

549
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 1: She has a lot of vulnerability, which she has to

550
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:11,480
Speaker 1: hide because of her need to be a superstar. He

551
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:15,200
Speaker 1: also said the miss Piggy's father chased after other sows

552
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 1: and her mother had so many piglets she never found

553
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 1: time to develop her mind. I'll die before I live

554
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 1: like that, Piggy screamed. She then left for the city

555
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 1: and got a job wearing a sandwich board for and

556
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:31,880
Speaker 1: this is where it gets like really fucked up for

557
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 1: a barbecue stand, and entered a beauty contest under the

558
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:38,960
Speaker 1: name Laverne. Her big break was at bacon commercial, which

559
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 1: led her to a job as mascot for a local

560
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 1: TV sports cast called pig Skin Parade. And then she

561
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:48,480
Speaker 1: got on The Muppet Show. Just like so much cannibalism

562
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:54,560
Speaker 1: packed into the last like two paragraphs.

563
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 2: Of Oh my god.

564
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 3: This isn't for the public to know.

565
00:29:56,280 --> 00:30:00,240
Speaker 4: Is she feats on the flesh of her own so

566
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:04,080
Speaker 4: busy breeding that she didn't have time to develop her mind.

567
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 1: Her mind, Oh.

568
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:09,480
Speaker 4: My god, I thought I was gonna end like fucking

569
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:11,960
Speaker 4: grapes of wrath. It's like and she had a breastfeed

570
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:12,720
Speaker 4: a dying man.

571
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 2: That really took a turn. That told me a lot

572
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 2: about frank Oz. I really interesting where he was where

573
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 2: he was at. That is so brutal. I do like that.

574
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 2: I I rewatched a little bit of it this morning,

575
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:37,440
Speaker 2: like a really good video essay about Miss Piggy by

576
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 2: be kind Rewind on YouTube. Oh yeah, yeah, I love

577
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 2: her channel. I like rewatched the first couple of minutes

578
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:44,960
Speaker 2: and I was like, I gotta save it for the pod.

579
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:47,880
Speaker 2: I was just hyped on the pig today. But like, yeah,

580
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:50,959
Speaker 2: like how that story is like that's way darker than

581
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 2: I was aware of. But it does feel like mapped

582
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 2: on like an old school like I'm just a little

583
00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 2: girl from a little town and I had a hard

584
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 2: time and here it's like a Marilyn Monroe kind of

585
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,239
Speaker 2: like sure I took some pictures when I was a

586
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 2: young Sure pig I wasn't proud of.

587
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 3: So what.

588
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 1: And I mean maybe that's what the like cannibalism is,

589
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 1: you know, or the like having to sell yourself out.

590
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,120
Speaker 1: Like I think there's probably like some metaphors in there

591
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:19,880
Speaker 1: that are just like incredibly dark.

592
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 2: The I don't I don't have an issue with that.

593
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 2: Her mom catching a stray like that.

594
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:27,520
Speaker 3: That was harh. That was really hard.

595
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 1: My mom's a dumb bitch.

596
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:34,800
Speaker 4: That was really fucking figure anything out anyway. So Fozzi's

597
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 4: actually what if his back is? Like, So Fozzy's like

598
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 4: actually a sick comedian dude, Like everybody loves him. He's

599
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 4: so fucking funny. When he enters a space, he lights.

600
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:46,200
Speaker 1: Up the fun wishes she could get with Fozzy, But

601
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 1: unfortunately I'm both of them.

602
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:53,720
Speaker 2: The comedic voice of a generation isn't always recognized right away.

603
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 2: Sometimes it takes some time.

604
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 3: My hope is that posthumously Fuzzy will be recognized for

605
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 3: his uh, his contribution.

606
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 2: But he's really the veno.

607
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 3: I don't. His parents are like puppeteers. I kind of

608
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 3: like rend puppeteers too, Yeah, oh.

609
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 2: Puppet, that's fun. That's fun.

610
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 4: They like escaped like like Holland or something in World

611
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 4: War Two, and like his parents had puppets that mocked

612
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 4: eight off Hitler. I was just reading like some of

613
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:24,560
Speaker 4: his They were like about that puppeteers.

614
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, holy shit.

615
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 2: Okay, the puppet is mightier than the sword, as.

616
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 1: They said, you know, the best way to criticize to

617
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:37,719
Speaker 1: make a full of people in power. One cool detail

618
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:40,440
Speaker 1: that I think I actually got from the be kind

619
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 1: Rewind episode was that the reason she always wears pink

620
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 1: and purple and like aqua and like those colors. Is

621
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 1: because based on this backstory as psychological aversion to the

622
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 1: earth tones that she lived with on the farm. Wow,

623
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 1: that's like the sort of thing I was looking for,

624
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 1: you know. It's just like and here's like a fun

625
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 1: design detail that like we explain with and it's like

626
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 1: she was in a commercial forbid right wearing a sandwich board.

627
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:09,280
Speaker 3: Yeah.

628
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:12,840
Speaker 2: Frankaus is like the coolest, one of the coolest people

629
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 2: to ever do anything. I was like the fact that

630
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:20,480
Speaker 2: he co created Miss Piggy and then like directed Little

631
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 2: Shop of Horrors and like bow Finger.

632
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 3: Like it's just nuts. Stapford Wives that movie.

633
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:31,640
Speaker 2: Okay, maybe not that one, that one, there's a couple

634
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:34,760
Speaker 2: of wee can skip a few, but but like Little

635
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:36,240
Speaker 2: Shop of Horrors, come.

636
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 1: On, that's great, that's good stuff.

637
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:41,480
Speaker 2: It's amazing. Oh yeah, and Yoda. I guess the fact

638
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 2: that Yoda's number three on the list is impressible.

639
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah.

640
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 1: Behind this Piggy and Fozzy, I think that, like I

641
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 1: want to get to this later, but the fact that

642
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:55,960
Speaker 1: they are one of the few fictional characters that can

643
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:59,960
Speaker 1: like show up to Prince Charles's coronation and it like

644
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:03,959
Speaker 1: makes sense, which kind of makes sense, but like I

645
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 1: feel like the Henson Company like treated them as if

646
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:10,759
Speaker 1: they were real, which is maybe why they're like the

647
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 1: only fictional characters will accept as real. Almost.

648
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:16,960
Speaker 2: I was thinking this this morning, so, like there's a

649
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 2: new Miss Piggy movie coming out at some point, which

650
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 2: is like super excited about that I didn't know about

651
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 2: before today. I was so excited.

652
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:29,320
Speaker 1: I was talking to you know, Michael Yes and produced

653
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:32,239
Speaker 1: by ammastone on Stone and Jals.

654
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:35,760
Speaker 2: It just it just makes sense. But I was like, Okay,

655
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:38,840
Speaker 2: so we're assuming if we're gonna say that movie is

656
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:42,439
Speaker 2: going to be nominated for a lot of Oscars. Right,

657
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:47,359
Speaker 2: does Miss Piggy get nominated for an Oscar? U? Miss

658
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:51,839
Speaker 2: Piggy is still voiced by a man? Miss Piggy gets

659
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 2: nominated for the Oscar? Right, it doesn't work if Miss

660
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 2: Piggy's not nominated for the Oscar. But I mean the

661
00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 2: gender lines and award categories are ridiculous anyway, But like

662
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:02,760
Speaker 2: this unique case, She's like, what do we do?

663
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 4: It is funny. It's like a Supreme Court case that

664
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:08,520
Speaker 4: changes everything. It's like and in this scenario, how do

665
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:09,400
Speaker 4: we move forward?

666
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:12,759
Speaker 1: We've actually there is precedent speaking of the Supreme Court,

667
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,640
Speaker 1: there is president for this. Because while so, yeah, she

668
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:18,240
Speaker 1: really becomes a superstar with the Muppet Movie in nineteen

669
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:21,920
Speaker 1: seventy nine, you know, does the karate chop moment of

670
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:25,839
Speaker 1: like realization. Frank Oz goes back and like writes this

671
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 1: horrifying backstory and suddenly she's this fully formed character. And

672
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:32,440
Speaker 1: the Muppet Movie comes along and everyone.

673
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 3: Is like, who is that?

674
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:36,520
Speaker 1: Like they I mean, they knew her from the show,

675
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 1: but like she really Like I was watching the Ciskel

676
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:42,359
Speaker 1: and Ebert review of The Muppet Movie and Ciskel was like,

677
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:45,720
Speaker 1: I only liked the movie when she was on screen.

678
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 1: Like he was like so smitten with Miss Piggy. He

679
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:51,880
Speaker 1: also like he's also like the part where they like

680
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 1: flip her upside down and you see how bigger thighs are.

681
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:59,440
Speaker 1: It's like, oh my god, okay, man, oh cool. But

682
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 1: there was a fan led campaign to get Miss Piggy

683
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:05,920
Speaker 1: an Academy Award nomination for Best Actress. Two fans in

684
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 1: Cincinnati launched CAMPO, which stood for the Committee to Award

685
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:14,480
Speaker 1: Miss Piggy and Oscar. They received thirty five thousand letters

686
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:18,120
Speaker 1: of support and delivered them to the Academy of Motion

687
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 1: Picture Arts and Sciences. In response, the Academy made this statement,

688
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:26,360
Speaker 1: which I just have to include for like just a

689
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:29,880
Speaker 1: massive l. While the Academy does not participate in the

690
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:33,000
Speaker 1: pork barrel campaigns, which are an unfortunate part of the

691
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:36,799
Speaker 1: annual OSCAR campaign, we do wish you appropriate success with

692
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:43,280
Speaker 1: your commendable support of such a weighty candidate of Academy honors. Oh, guys,

693
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:45,759
Speaker 1: get fucked. Honestly, that.

694
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 2: Sasty. She I mean, miss Piggy has to have been

695
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 2: gone to the Oscars before.

696
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:59,319
Speaker 1: She has, so she at those Oscars presented or I

697
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 1: think introt Us Rainbow Connection, which was nominated that year,

698
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:05,240
Speaker 1: and like did a bit about how she like couldn't

699
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 1: fucking believe that she wasn't nominated. It was like, really good,

700
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:09,320
Speaker 1: it was her.

701
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:14,520
Speaker 2: Johnny Carson and insult her in the same I know that's.

702
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 3: Backhanded then she so.

703
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:21,440
Speaker 1: Nineteen seventy nine, Big Year was on the cover of

704
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 1: People magazine, which referred to her as the Muppet Movies

705
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 1: new sex goddess. The late seventies were like so weird,

706
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:32,840
Speaker 1: I don't know so she's she talks about how the

707
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:35,240
Speaker 1: Queen tried to fix her up with Prince Charles better

708
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 1: than Prince Andrew. Thank god.

709
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:41,759
Speaker 2: Okay, that would be a real state. That would that

710
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:43,759
Speaker 2: would not bode well for the flight log side.

711
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:45,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, that would have been she wouldn't have been on there. Man,

712
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:47,279
Speaker 3: she would have chopped the shit out of him.

713
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:49,719
Speaker 2: That's true. Yeah, he wouldn't have made it. Maybe she

714
00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:52,279
Speaker 2: could have. She would have killed him. Oh yeah.

715
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:55,200
Speaker 1: The article also suggest Elliott Gould suggests that he fucked

716
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 1: Miss Piggy in it. He says, I turned down Miss Universe,

717
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:01,080
Speaker 1: but I couldn't turn down Miss Piggy.

718
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:04,640
Speaker 2: That actually that pairing. I feel like Elliott Gould does

719
00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:06,719
Speaker 2: have like a little bit of current about him. I

720
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:09,440
Speaker 2: feel like she's got a type. Yeah, for sure got

721
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:09,839
Speaker 2: a type.

722
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:12,600
Speaker 1: You got that frog in him, he's got he got

723
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:18,160
Speaker 1: that frog. In the early eighties, it has such a

724
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:22,279
Speaker 1: weird Yeah, good guy who fucks but everybody, I feel

725
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:26,319
Speaker 1: like everybody in the late seventies had like guy with

726
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:30,600
Speaker 1: a ponytail from a documentary about like orgies energy where

727
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 1: they're just like we're just here to enjoy each other's

728
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 1: bodies and like, yeah, it's just like that.

729
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:40,760
Speaker 2: Guy's always there and he's like, oh god, it's yeah,

730
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:43,359
Speaker 2: it reminds me of that there. It's like a kind

731
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:45,560
Speaker 2: of an older video now. But Chris Fleming made a

732
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:49,440
Speaker 2: great song about Polly Couples years and years ago, where

733
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:52,480
Speaker 2: it's like, it's never the person you want to be Pollie,

734
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:55,480
Speaker 2: who's Polly. It's a guy being like I have one

735
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:58,680
Speaker 2: hundred board games at my house, like.

736
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 1: No, no, But in this case we're talking about Elliott Gould,

737
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:07,279
Speaker 1: which I would I'm on board with miss Piggy and

738
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:08,720
Speaker 1: Elliott Gould. I love that rumor.

739
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 2: Yeah that would make Kermit jealous too.

740
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 1: Oh hell yeah.

741
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:12,919
Speaker 3: Yeah.

742
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:16,040
Speaker 1: We'll get to their relationship. But it's I don't know,

743
00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:18,400
Speaker 1: going back and rewatching some of the stuff. I was like,

744
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:22,000
Speaker 1: I don't love how he treats her, like obviously, like

745
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:25,880
Speaker 1: there there's a big like re examination of her, like

746
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 1: hitting him, but also he's like kind of a dick

747
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:31,040
Speaker 1: sometimes to her, like.

748
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 4: Trying to put a wedge between him so you can

749
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:37,800
Speaker 4: move Like, I don't know, girl, like I feel.

750
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:42,399
Speaker 2: Well, you're like like me for example, So I'm just.

751
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:44,160
Speaker 3: Saying like I don't know, I don't know. I got

752
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:46,000
Speaker 3: like a hundred board games back in White Place.

753
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:51,040
Speaker 1: I haven't taken my hat off yet, but I'll let

754
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:52,759
Speaker 1: the ponytail drop out in a little bit.

755
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:56,760
Speaker 2: That would be a ponytail.

756
00:39:56,239 --> 00:39:58,919
Speaker 3: Reveal, shaking it out.

757
00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:00,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is who I am.

758
00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:03,319
Speaker 4: Like when the nerdy character takes the pencil out of

759
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:05,319
Speaker 4: their hair and like an eighties like, oh god, like

760
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:07,080
Speaker 4: whoa long hair?

761
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:10,920
Speaker 2: But it's kind of like kind of perpetually wet ponytail.

762
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:13,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, just like a greasy as ponytail.

763
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 4: It doesn't really like flare out, it's just stuck together

764
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:18,359
Speaker 4: a little bit like a pig's tail.

765
00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:19,840
Speaker 3: People magsy.

766
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:22,279
Speaker 1: I also just like this detail from the article because

767
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:25,520
Speaker 1: it was the late seventies and they said the gossipis

768
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 1: claimed that Piggy might be pregnant or had a drinking problem,

769
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:31,719
Speaker 1: or perhaps a coke addiction, because certainly she has the

770
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 1: equipment to be snorting something I do just like the

771
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:41,719
Speaker 1: coke was a fun drug back then. Like they're just like, yeah,

772
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:44,440
Speaker 1: we're all doing it. Wouldn't it be cool to snort

773
00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:46,440
Speaker 1: choke with giant pig nostrils?

774
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:48,960
Speaker 3: Oh my yeahs?

775
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 4: Do you think if your people pulling out that puppet

776
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:53,920
Speaker 4: like at parties and being like, yo, dude, let's fucking

777
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:55,120
Speaker 4: do a line with Miss Piggy.

778
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:56,880
Speaker 3: They're like, guys, I really shouldn't.

779
00:40:56,920 --> 00:41:00,239
Speaker 4: It's really for performances to like, come on, dude, out

780
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:01,920
Speaker 4: of the case, let's do a couple of rails with

781
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:02,799
Speaker 4: Miss Piggy.

782
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:05,200
Speaker 2: She I feel like she she would do it as

783
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:08,160
Speaker 2: in the seventies, she did it as a party trick parties.

784
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:15,719
Speaker 4: Frank Oz was definitely doing it, like oh.

785
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:16,600
Speaker 2: I like and I don't And is that a fun

786
00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:18,920
Speaker 2: energy to bring? I feel like it sounds fun? But

787
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:21,520
Speaker 2: when it actually happened, you're like, yeah, man, this is

788
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:23,359
Speaker 2: not good. We got to get home.

789
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 3: And it's after as the highs wearing off, You're like, damn,

790
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:28,360
Speaker 3: what the fuck am I doing? Man?

791
00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:32,960
Speaker 2: You can't do a pig's Man, I'm looking at the

792
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:37,240
Speaker 2: Muffet Wiki is unbelievably thorough.

793
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:41,239
Speaker 1: I just like, yeah, it's got its own It's like Wikipedia,

794
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:44,439
Speaker 1: like it's its own whole universe over there.

795
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 2: Because I was curious. I'm sure we'll talk about like

796
00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:50,279
Speaker 2: how like miss like the Academy Awards, think like the

797
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:52,759
Speaker 2: way that people talk about Miss Piggy's body is so

798
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:57,920
Speaker 2: like charged and but like She never talks about herself

799
00:41:57,960 --> 00:41:59,719
Speaker 2: that way, which I love about her. She's like so

800
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:03,400
Speaker 2: confidite and amazing. But there's a whole page on muppet

801
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:06,840
Speaker 2: Wiki this is Miss Piggy's weight, and it's just a

802
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:09,520
Speaker 2: list of hundreds of references. I was like this, who

803
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:13,319
Speaker 2: did this? Who did this? And and can I I

804
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:16,279
Speaker 2: don't know for certain Wikipedia pages. You're like, this is

805
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:25,040
Speaker 2: against God, but but I do appreciate that the all Yeah, yeah, yeah.

806
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:27,400
Speaker 1: She was introduced to a whole new generation with Muppet Babies.

807
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 1: Did you guys watch Muppet Babies? Was that before your time? Yeah?

808
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:35,960
Speaker 2: I did babies, missus the miss Piggy. Muppet Baby is

809
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:39,080
Speaker 2: like a little too sexy for me. Yeah, what's going

810
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:42,080
Speaker 2: on there? Did you guys like Muppet Babies? I didn't.

811
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:43,680
Speaker 2: I didn't watch it right now.

812
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:46,840
Speaker 3: I was like, I mean, I was so. It was

813
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:48,520
Speaker 3: one of the first cartoons I remember watching.

814
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:51,120
Speaker 1: Watch Baby. I remember it.

815
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:53,640
Speaker 4: And then there was the cartoon I remember there was

816
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:55,640
Speaker 4: like a kind of there's like a reference to Star

817
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:58,080
Speaker 4: Wars and like the opening that I really liked, thought

818
00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:00,400
Speaker 4: I was like obsessed with other than that.

819
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:02,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was the opening is the thing is the

820
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:05,399
Speaker 1: iconic thing, and then Nanny's legs like they had an

821
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:09,440
Speaker 1: overseer who you only saw her like weird greed stockings.

822
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, like Charlie Brown.

823
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:14,360
Speaker 1: Style, right, yeah, yeah, you just saw her like calves

824
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:16,400
Speaker 1: and it was like very mysterious.

825
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:18,799
Speaker 2: I love that they did that on Cow and Chicken too.

826
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:21,440
Speaker 2: That was like when I really loved Yeah, when it's

827
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:22,120
Speaker 2: just the legs.

828
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:25,880
Speaker 1: That was a Marvel joint. By the way, Marvel Comics

829
00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:30,400
Speaker 1: Animation department technically made the Muppet Babies, so that's.

830
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:33,320
Speaker 2: The first because it was like the cheap o animation

831
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:34,560
Speaker 2: style of Yeah.

832
00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:37,600
Speaker 1: Probably they were probably like already making you know, a

833
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:40,200
Speaker 1: Spider Man comic and we're like, what about what about this?

834
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:43,719
Speaker 2: I think we made the Muppet Sexy Babies.

835
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:47,200
Speaker 1: There's a lot of weird continuity stuff in there, like

836
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:51,560
Speaker 1: there's a reveal that Statler and Waldorf are the muppets uncles,

837
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:53,480
Speaker 1: but like, I don't I don't think we need to

838
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:56,360
Speaker 1: like get too into continuity because I don't, like, I

839
00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:59,640
Speaker 1: think the premise is that, like the Muppets are all actors,

840
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:03,279
Speaker 1: Like this is just a SNL style like thing where

841
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:06,680
Speaker 1: it's like they're just playing different versions of themselves and

842
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:09,880
Speaker 1: you like never know what's real, so you don't have

843
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:12,120
Speaker 1: to like worry too much that Statler and Waldorf for

844
00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:15,160
Speaker 1: actually just the worst uncles of all time.

845
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 2: Right, worried?

846
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:20,279
Speaker 4: Did you worry that Scott Gardner cartoon Tiny Thuppets?

847
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:20,719
Speaker 1: Yes?

848
00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:27,719
Speaker 8: Oh yes, it was like the brand Brazilian Mummy Babies

849
00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:31,640
Speaker 8: when it was called like Cormet and Gonzor.

850
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:36,520
Speaker 3: Was just called I think it's just a miss woman

851
00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:40,440
Speaker 3: or something ship it is.

852
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:43,920
Speaker 2: Miss Picky is probably the best case scenario of like

853
00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:47,400
Speaker 2: the missus Lady character, right like there, it really isn't

854
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:50,040
Speaker 2: I can't think of them where because it's like they

855
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:52,880
Speaker 2: try to emulate it a bajillion times or like I

856
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:55,360
Speaker 2: don't know. I always go back to Chuck E cheeselare

857
00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:58,760
Speaker 2: as I want to do and they have a missus

858
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:01,560
Speaker 2: Lady car, like you always have to have one girl,

859
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:05,240
Speaker 2: not even because you care so you can make pencil

860
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:09,279
Speaker 2: boxes for girls, right, but miss Piggy, like they just

861
00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:12,799
Speaker 2: there was something in that coke that was special. Yeah.

862
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:16,479
Speaker 1: Uh, Brian, I'm gonna have to ask you to stop

863
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:20,080
Speaker 1: putting pictures of a fozzy bear next to Burt Kreischer

864
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:24,200
Speaker 1: in the in the chat. It's too distracting. They do

865
00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:27,360
Speaker 1: both wear brown hats and no shirt.

866
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:32,560
Speaker 2: Well, I don't sell Brian's hard work short. He's finding

867
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 2: exact poses that are identical. It's like, it's alarming, that's crazy.

868
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:45,320
Speaker 1: Bert Krasers just modeled his career off Fozzy Wild.

869
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:48,759
Speaker 3: No fucking I have a backstory, man, gotta have a backstory.

870
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:53,280
Speaker 1: So Miss Piggy is seen as an lgbt Q plus icon,

871
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:57,560
Speaker 1: which is wild because it started from a place where

872
00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:01,760
Speaker 1: Frank and and well, we'll get to a quote from

873
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:04,799
Speaker 1: Marlon Brando that I think will kind of put some

874
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:07,320
Speaker 1: of this into context. But he once told reporters about

875
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:10,239
Speaker 1: how Piggy takes over and when he talks about her,

876
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:12,920
Speaker 1: he will become her, using her voice and even adopting

877
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:15,920
Speaker 1: her personality, and then added, but let's get it straight

878
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:20,120
Speaker 1: that I'm straight. It's like, okay, all right, man.

879
00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:24,760
Speaker 2: Cool, Okay. He keeps telling on himself.

880
00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:28,880
Speaker 1: I know, I know other artists were, like, I sculpted

881
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:31,680
Speaker 1: the David out of appreciation for the human body. Just

882
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:34,200
Speaker 1: because I sent three weeks on the Dick doesn't mean

883
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:35,000
Speaker 1: I'm not straight.

884
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:41,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, look at his biceps though, Look at those things, man, sick, right, sick.

885
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:43,200
Speaker 2: I'm straight, a straight guy, could do.

886
00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:46,600
Speaker 3: Got to be straight, understand, dude, dick like that.

887
00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:50,479
Speaker 1: After he became a successful film director, he was still

888
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:53,000
Speaker 1: associated with Miss Piggy. When he directed the two thousand

889
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:55,960
Speaker 1: and one crime movie The Score, an annoyed Marlon Brando

890
00:46:56,040 --> 00:47:01,880
Speaker 1: would reportedly only refer to the director as miss Piggy. Okay,

891
00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:06,600
Speaker 1: that's brutal, just like the seventies. Just any anyone who

892
00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:09,160
Speaker 1: was like famous in the seventies was just like broken

893
00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:12,400
Speaker 1: by toxic masculinity. It's just like never recovered.

894
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:18,000
Speaker 2: That's yeah, that's a bummer. Yeah, man, I I don't

895
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:21,080
Speaker 2: I don't know. Maybe there's something I don't know very

896
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:23,960
Speaker 2: much about Marlon Brando, and it's kind of like none

897
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:26,640
Speaker 2: of my business. When I see Marlon Brando, I'm like.

898
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:27,759
Speaker 1: We're good here.

899
00:47:28,200 --> 00:47:30,480
Speaker 3: It's not for me. That's not really for me.

900
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:34,120
Speaker 2: I don't need to know about all of that, especially

901
00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:37,879
Speaker 2: if he's bullying Frank Gaws to the Frank Aus has

902
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:42,560
Speaker 2: to respond in a toxic way to the world, right exactly.

903
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:47,080
Speaker 4: So yeah, two thousand and one, Brando, Dude, that's like, oh,

904
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:47,719
Speaker 4: that's like a.

905
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:54,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's doctor Moreau. Doctor you're talking.

906
00:47:55,680 --> 00:47:56,280
Speaker 2: That's tough.

907
00:47:56,680 --> 00:47:59,880
Speaker 1: But Eric Johnson, who's been playing Piggy since I stepped

908
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:02,560
Speaker 1: way from the part in two thousand, said in an

909
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:05,759
Speaker 1: interview that Piggy is a drag act. It's where some

910
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:08,360
Speaker 1: of the comedy comes from. He did not go on

911
00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:11,960
Speaker 1: to clarify I've slept with like twenty three women of

912
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:14,640
Speaker 1: them have said, I'm like, good, it sucks. But he

913
00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:17,959
Speaker 1: cited Oz's early description of Piggy as a truck driver

914
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:20,880
Speaker 1: in a woman's body, and then argued that the character

915
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:23,879
Speaker 1: breaks down genderbearers, which I think is.

916
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:25,680
Speaker 2: Right, all right, Eric, nice.

917
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:29,680
Speaker 1: Eric. People have also pointed out that Chapel Roone seems

918
00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:33,080
Speaker 1: to pull a lot from drag and also Miss Piggy,

919
00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:35,600
Speaker 1: Like there are a couple side by side pictures where

920
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:38,279
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, yeah.

921
00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:40,200
Speaker 3: She might have literally Miss Piggy style.

922
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:44,120
Speaker 2: Man, Yeah, it's perfect. Miss Piggy also has a wide

923
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:49,200
Speaker 2: variety of wigs. Yeah, she's just she's maximal.

924
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:51,719
Speaker 3: She loves animal print, you know.

925
00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:57,480
Speaker 1: But yeah, that that be kind rewind video it's called

926
00:48:57,800 --> 00:49:00,359
Speaker 1: Miss Piggy. Camp and the Death of the Movie Star

927
00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:03,600
Speaker 1: has a really good quote from a camp theorist talking

928
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:07,839
Speaker 1: about Camp as this like pure surface level celebration of

929
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:09,960
Speaker 1: like the kind of hoops we have to jump through

930
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:12,840
Speaker 1: to live our lives. They say, to appreciate camp and

931
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:15,439
Speaker 1: things or persons is to perceive the notion of life

932
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:19,480
Speaker 1: as theater being versus role playing reality and appearance, which

933
00:49:19,480 --> 00:49:22,319
Speaker 1: I think is like kind of a perfect frame to

934
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:26,120
Speaker 1: think of Miss Piggy and kind of the Muppets through. Yeah, yeah,

935
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:40,720
Speaker 1: it's a good video. Miss Piggy as a feminist icon.

936
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:43,360
Speaker 1: That's just you know, a lot of people talking about

937
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:48,279
Speaker 1: body positivity role model who subverts, Like the original punchline

938
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:51,239
Speaker 1: of her origin is like a you know, lipstick on

939
00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:53,719
Speaker 1: a pig like that sort of thing. But she just

940
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:57,120
Speaker 1: like I didn't even I hadn't ever even thought about

941
00:49:57,120 --> 00:50:01,560
Speaker 1: that being the original joke until somebody like reading about

942
00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:04,440
Speaker 1: the origin as like, oh, yeah, I get it. But

943
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:07,440
Speaker 1: it's like no, she's just like so glamorous that like

944
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:11,440
Speaker 1: you don't even. She just like owns it. She's completely confident.

945
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:15,160
Speaker 1: I feel like you don't like have that initial like

946
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:19,239
Speaker 1: she's ugly but pretty type thing. It's just like she's

947
00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:22,799
Speaker 1: her own character, that extensive backstory.

948
00:50:23,080 --> 00:50:26,360
Speaker 2: I also like that, like I guess the Miss Piggy

949
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:30,520
Speaker 2: era I most associate her with, and I like the

950
00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:34,680
Speaker 2: best is that her like kind of nineties Miss Piggy

951
00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:37,160
Speaker 2: where she's kind of like girl boss single a little

952
00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:40,759
Speaker 2: bit like she's she's a career girl, and she's also

953
00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:44,480
Speaker 2: like a ruthless kind of quite evil career girl. And

954
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:45,759
Speaker 2: I love that.

955
00:50:46,160 --> 00:50:49,279
Speaker 1: Which one is that? What is that in the ruthless?

956
00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:51,440
Speaker 2: I feel like, I mean most of them I'm thinking of.

957
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:55,200
Speaker 2: I think it's maybe a Muppets take Manhattan where she's

958
00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:59,360
Speaker 2: really rallying for parts and she'll like lie to get parts.

959
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:03,920
Speaker 2: She just like she's you know, she's a diva, she's

960
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:05,520
Speaker 2: an Yeah, And I like that, Yeah, it would be

961
00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:07,520
Speaker 2: it would have been easy to keep the focus on

962
00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:10,080
Speaker 2: her like obsession with Kermit, which like it always does.

963
00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:15,120
Speaker 2: But I feel like her her passions of Kermit and uh,

964
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:19,399
Speaker 2: you know, being famous are like in locksteps, So it's

965
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:23,480
Speaker 2: like almost weird that she had, Like they haven't like

966
00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:28,279
Speaker 2: adapted her to the modern era very frequently. I guess

967
00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:30,160
Speaker 2: maybe this color scull and Miss.

968
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:34,600
Speaker 1: Piggy, yeah written by who made o Mary for people

969
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:39,719
Speaker 1: who aren't familiar, but the next logical step, Yeah, Like

970
00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:43,520
Speaker 1: I could really like get into brilliant dark shad.

971
00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:46,719
Speaker 4: Which is what if it's a dust bowl. It's like,

972
00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:49,839
Speaker 4: I look, I went to the source, and I just

973
00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:50,560
Speaker 4: had to adapt this.

974
00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:53,600
Speaker 2: Frank Gus in fact doubled down when I brought up

975
00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:54,920
Speaker 2: the Stanoslavski and.

976
00:51:54,920 --> 00:52:00,439
Speaker 1: Brief Jennifer Lawrence did say that the Miss Pig movie

977
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:05,719
Speaker 1: is fucked up and really dark. Oh wow, maybe it

978
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:09,840
Speaker 1: is just a straight up adaptation, all right, but uh yeah,

979
00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:13,080
Speaker 1: I feel like this, like one of the things driving

980
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:16,919
Speaker 1: her career throughout has been just the will they won't

981
00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:21,320
Speaker 1: they of Kermit the Frog, Like there was a more

982
00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:23,799
Speaker 1: recent I forget when it was, but I remember it

983
00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:26,360
Speaker 1: hitting the news cycle when they like broke up and

984
00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:30,120
Speaker 1: everybody was like, oh, like Piggy and Kermit broke up.

985
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:33,080
Speaker 1: That was the second time they had tried that, and

986
00:52:33,160 --> 00:52:36,960
Speaker 1: the first time they did it was actually like called

987
00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:39,680
Speaker 1: off because like they like, to your point, they were

988
00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:41,320
Speaker 1: going to break up. She was going to be single

989
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:44,879
Speaker 1: throughout the nineties, and it was there was like this

990
00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:50,080
Speaker 1: whole book planned, and then Jim Henson died like that week,

991
00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:55,239
Speaker 1: and so they just like quietly like pulled back on it.

992
00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:57,719
Speaker 2: I said, she's been through enough to see her We

993
00:52:57,760 --> 00:52:58,960
Speaker 2: can't put her through a breakup.

994
00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:01,960
Speaker 4: Oh, because because he Henson was doing Kermit's voice up

995
00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:03,560
Speaker 4: until he passed away.

996
00:53:03,600 --> 00:53:04,560
Speaker 3: Basically, yeah, he.

997
00:53:04,560 --> 00:53:07,960
Speaker 1: Had been so his last TV appearance was on the

998
00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:12,360
Speaker 1: Arsenio Hall Show in nineteen ninety.

999
00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:15,440
Speaker 4: So funny that there was like seriously, yeah, we got

1000
00:53:15,480 --> 00:53:19,080
Speaker 4: Kermit the Frog on to Night Godless.

1001
00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:22,160
Speaker 1: And he was like not feeling well at that and

1002
00:53:22,239 --> 00:53:26,239
Speaker 1: then he was refusing to like take time off and

1003
00:53:26,640 --> 00:53:29,759
Speaker 1: then so I didn't realize. I thought he died of

1004
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:33,560
Speaker 1: cancer or something. He died of like basically strep throat

1005
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:36,480
Speaker 1: and just like not getting it taken care of.

1006
00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:38,360
Speaker 3: God.

1007
00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:42,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like a really crazy like a bacterial infection

1008
00:53:42,320 --> 00:53:44,759
Speaker 1: that just like got worse and worse. And he was

1009
00:53:44,840 --> 00:53:49,120
Speaker 1: at that time talking to Disney about selling, you know,

1010
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:53,160
Speaker 1: the Muppets to Disney and Frank Oz this is frank

1011
00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:55,759
Speaker 1: Oz's quote on it. The Disney deal is probably what

1012
00:53:55,880 --> 00:53:57,720
Speaker 1: killed Jim. It made him sick.

1013
00:53:58,400 --> 00:53:59,720
Speaker 3: Oh wow, oh.

1014
00:54:00,600 --> 00:54:04,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, good good for him for saying, Man, I guess

1015
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:08,200
Speaker 2: I mean because Disney is I went to my for

1016
00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:12,560
Speaker 2: my last birthday. My boyfriend brought me to the Henson

1017
00:54:12,680 --> 00:54:16,600
Speaker 2: studio like dirty Puppet night. Have you guys, ever been, No,

1018
00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:22,480
Speaker 2: I've yeah, yeah, it's cool. It's like Brian Henson gives

1019
00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:25,560
Speaker 2: the audience a tour of the studio beforehand, and then

1020
00:54:25,600 --> 00:54:30,520
Speaker 2: it's like puppet improv. Basically, it's the it's the best

1021
00:54:30,560 --> 00:54:33,360
Speaker 2: way to see improv if you absolutely have to is

1022
00:54:33,400 --> 00:54:37,319
Speaker 2: puppet improv. But it was. It was really cool. But

1023
00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:39,680
Speaker 2: I don't even know if they're still at that studio

1024
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:42,240
Speaker 2: or they won't be for much longer because Disney has

1025
00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:45,239
Speaker 2: like sort of slowly dismantled. I hope maybe the Miss

1026
00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:47,200
Speaker 2: Piggy movie will save it, but it seemed like they

1027
00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:49,440
Speaker 2: were gonna have to leave the studio and you know,

1028
00:54:49,520 --> 00:54:53,600
Speaker 2: go to sort of more standard corporate offices, which such

1029
00:54:53,719 --> 00:54:55,480
Speaker 2: I have to imagine his Disney's fault.

1030
00:54:55,560 --> 00:54:58,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, because it's like they were also like you

1031
00:54:58,520 --> 00:55:01,040
Speaker 4: could like lease office base out of there, like I

1032
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:03,680
Speaker 4: remember in the last few years, like yeah, because.

1033
00:55:03,600 --> 00:55:04,920
Speaker 3: The place on Librea right like that.

1034
00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:08,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, everything Kermit Yeah yeah, yeah, there was

1035
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:10,440
Speaker 1: like see a little Kermit statue out front.

1036
00:55:10,880 --> 00:55:13,640
Speaker 4: I remember going like back in the day, like meetings

1037
00:55:13,640 --> 00:55:16,520
Speaker 4: with startups like that were like like a startup was

1038
00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:17,280
Speaker 4: based back.

1039
00:55:17,080 --> 00:55:20,359
Speaker 3: There, like you Richard the Hinson Studios and it was

1040
00:55:20,640 --> 00:55:22,600
Speaker 3: at that company excess more than seven.

1041
00:55:22,719 --> 00:55:24,279
Speaker 2: No, they shouldn't have to do.

1042
00:55:24,719 --> 00:55:27,280
Speaker 3: Part of me felt really bummed out that. I was like, what,

1043
00:55:27,480 --> 00:55:29,959
Speaker 3: but you got like I'm looking at the original Dark

1044
00:55:30,040 --> 00:55:33,200
Speaker 3: Crystal Puppets in here, and you guys are fucking talking

1045
00:55:33,200 --> 00:55:36,240
Speaker 3: about some dumb streaming platform that's not gonna do fuck.

1046
00:55:36,440 --> 00:55:38,600
Speaker 2: They're like, yeah, the frogs broke cookie.

1047
00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:41,840
Speaker 1: You do you do man, and they can do whatever

1048
00:55:41,880 --> 00:55:44,279
Speaker 1: you want, guys, Yeah you want watch this.

1049
00:55:44,360 --> 00:55:49,959
Speaker 4: I can ash on his head right now. Won't do shit.

1050
00:55:51,840 --> 00:55:54,600
Speaker 1: But yeah. In nineteen ninety, they appeared on The Today

1051
00:55:54,640 --> 00:55:57,080
Speaker 1: Show announced they were officially breaking up. This is part

1052
00:55:57,080 --> 00:55:59,600
Speaker 1: of a publicity stunt called the Pig of the Nineties

1053
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:02,719
Speaker 1: that where she was going to like be an independent woman.

1054
00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:04,120
Speaker 2: And then she's gonna girl boss it up.

1055
00:56:04,200 --> 00:56:05,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, she was gonna girl boss it up and then

1056
00:56:05,960 --> 00:56:08,839
Speaker 1: And that was in May, and just days later, Jim

1057
00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:12,839
Speaker 1: Henson died of Yeah. It's a crazy sort like he

1058
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:17,040
Speaker 1: literally just worked himself to like he wouldn't He like

1059
00:56:17,120 --> 00:56:19,239
Speaker 1: woke up at two am in the morning and was

1060
00:56:19,280 --> 00:56:22,200
Speaker 1: like I can't breathe and was like coughing up blood

1061
00:56:22,200 --> 00:56:23,800
Speaker 1: and he was like, but I don't want to cancel

1062
00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:28,000
Speaker 1: work tomorrow, so I don't know, for as a warning

1063
00:56:28,080 --> 00:56:30,800
Speaker 1: to anybody, like, don't don't work that hard.

1064
00:56:31,160 --> 00:56:33,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah alone.

1065
00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:36,440
Speaker 2: This is dark, but it would be funny if frank

1066
00:56:36,520 --> 00:56:39,560
Speaker 2: Oz was like, yeah, I think it was the breakup that.

1067
00:56:42,200 --> 00:56:46,120
Speaker 1: I didn't believe in love. After that he just got.

1068
00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:48,719
Speaker 4: Find this new new direction with Miss Piggy, right that

1069
00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:49,400
Speaker 4: we're thinking about.

1070
00:56:49,520 --> 00:56:50,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, He's like.

1071
00:56:52,400 --> 00:56:55,359
Speaker 2: You could just really affected him, and.

1072
00:56:55,280 --> 00:56:56,959
Speaker 3: He really wanted to say something, but he could.

1073
00:56:57,200 --> 00:56:59,480
Speaker 1: It was just like a plot, an idea that he

1074
00:56:59,520 --> 00:57:01,719
Speaker 1: didn't like a at work, so he like blames it.

1075
00:57:02,520 --> 00:57:06,560
Speaker 1: He's like, yeah, I don't know, yeah, yeah.

1076
00:57:06,560 --> 00:57:09,600
Speaker 3: I killed Jim. What do you guys think? Huh right,

1077
00:57:09,960 --> 00:57:10,640
Speaker 3: the shit off?

1078
00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:12,640
Speaker 1: Maybe I'll pitch that next time.

1079
00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:17,160
Speaker 2: I will watch basically like any like of the bajilion

1080
00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:20,120
Speaker 2: documentaries that there are about Jim Henson, and anytime I

1081
00:57:20,120 --> 00:57:23,880
Speaker 2: see even a shred of his like televised funeral services,

1082
00:57:23,920 --> 00:57:26,080
Speaker 2: I started bawling. It's so sad.

1083
00:57:26,320 --> 00:57:29,560
Speaker 4: I was so upset. That was like one of the

1084
00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:32,160
Speaker 4: first celebrity deaths I remember as a kid.

1085
00:57:32,840 --> 00:57:35,080
Speaker 1: Did you guys know that, like that's how he died?

1086
00:57:35,320 --> 00:57:39,200
Speaker 1: That it was I thought you just cancer. Yeah, im

1087
00:57:39,320 --> 00:57:41,680
Speaker 1: his cancer because he wasn't that old, right, was he

1088
00:57:41,760 --> 00:57:45,200
Speaker 1: in his like fifty or something? Yeah, I think, god.

1089
00:57:45,080 --> 00:57:47,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, but yeah, I just remember I was so deaf

1090
00:57:47,760 --> 00:57:51,480
Speaker 4: because I just felt like he was the Muppets truly,

1091
00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:53,640
Speaker 4: even like as a kid, I knew they were fucking puppets,

1092
00:57:53,640 --> 00:57:55,640
Speaker 4: but I still could connect that, like all things were

1093
00:57:55,680 --> 00:57:59,200
Speaker 4: possible through his work and the other people he worked with.

1094
00:57:59,240 --> 00:58:02,000
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's just like not that they wouldn't have

1095
00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:04,240
Speaker 2: been anyways, but it like almost makes it necessary for

1096
00:58:04,400 --> 00:58:07,320
Speaker 2: kids to have them up. It's at the funeral, so

1097
00:58:07,360 --> 00:58:12,000
Speaker 2: you know that they're like still, oh my god, Oh

1098
00:58:12,040 --> 00:58:14,200
Speaker 2: it's so sad man.

1099
00:58:14,960 --> 00:58:16,360
Speaker 3: They're laying flowers on this.

1100
00:58:17,880 --> 00:58:21,120
Speaker 2: It's too much, so much. I like, no, I've never

1101
00:58:21,160 --> 00:58:25,240
Speaker 2: been as sad. Well that's not fair, but like I've

1102
00:58:25,280 --> 00:58:27,240
Speaker 2: never been that sad at a funeral as I am

1103
00:58:27,280 --> 00:58:30,040
Speaker 2: watching like low res clips.

1104
00:58:30,480 --> 00:58:33,400
Speaker 3: Right right from nineteen nineties.

1105
00:58:33,160 --> 00:58:33,760
Speaker 2: So sad.

1106
00:58:34,200 --> 00:58:37,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I do feel like that does like get

1107
00:58:37,440 --> 00:58:40,000
Speaker 1: a kind of one of the things that I think

1108
00:58:40,080 --> 00:58:42,280
Speaker 1: is truly unique about them, which is the way that

1109
00:58:42,320 --> 00:58:46,960
Speaker 1: they exist both in reality and in like the fact

1110
00:58:47,000 --> 00:58:50,000
Speaker 1: that they were at King Charles's coronation I feel like

1111
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:52,840
Speaker 1: they're the only fictional characters who can like show up

1112
00:58:52,880 --> 00:58:56,200
Speaker 1: to real events. Like they occupy a weird space between

1113
00:58:56,720 --> 00:59:00,320
Speaker 1: worlds for everybody. Like you couldn't just have like, like

1114
00:59:00,480 --> 00:59:05,800
Speaker 1: Deadpool show up at the royal wedding and we've got

1115
00:59:05,840 --> 00:59:08,120
Speaker 1: Deadpool here, you know that.

1116
00:59:08,120 --> 00:59:12,760
Speaker 3: The coronation, I mean a fascinator on.

1117
00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:16,880
Speaker 2: I feel like that they because like other characters I guess,

1118
00:59:16,880 --> 00:59:18,920
Speaker 2: do show up places, but it always you can always

1119
00:59:18,920 --> 00:59:21,200
Speaker 2: tell it's an ad And then when the Muppet Show, you're.

1120
00:59:21,080 --> 00:59:23,880
Speaker 3: Like, oh, like, oh, the Muppets are there exactly. Yeah,

1121
00:59:23,920 --> 00:59:25,440
Speaker 3: You're like, damn, oh they were in town.

1122
00:59:26,040 --> 00:59:26,920
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1123
00:59:27,480 --> 00:59:34,640
Speaker 1: When uh so Edgar Edgar Bergen Candice Burger from Then

1124
00:59:34,680 --> 00:59:38,360
Speaker 1: in Black died, you know, when Edgar Bergen, Cannisbergen's father,

1125
00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:43,200
Speaker 1: who was a famous like puppeteer ventriloquist, died. His widow

1126
00:59:43,320 --> 00:59:46,080
Speaker 1: and candisberg And asked Jim Henson and Kermit to like

1127
00:59:46,200 --> 00:59:50,240
Speaker 1: speak at his funeral, and they said, Jim Henson said,

1128
00:59:50,480 --> 00:59:52,760
Speaker 1: there seems to be something strange about having a puppet

1129
00:59:52,760 --> 00:59:56,280
Speaker 1: in this situation, and Kermit said, have never appeared at

1130
00:59:56,280 --> 00:59:59,360
Speaker 1: a funeral before, And then Henson was like, but the

1131
00:59:59,360 --> 01:00:03,280
Speaker 1: family asked, I would bring Kermit and Charlie would have

1132
01:00:03,440 --> 01:00:06,760
Speaker 1: liked it. He said about like his Charlie and Mortimer

1133
01:00:06,760 --> 01:00:09,720
Speaker 1: were his two characters, and like everybody just like burst

1134
01:00:09,720 --> 01:00:12,520
Speaker 1: into tears because they realized like Charlie and Mortimer were

1135
01:00:12,560 --> 01:00:13,840
Speaker 1: gone like at that home.

1136
01:00:14,080 --> 01:00:17,080
Speaker 3: Wow. But yeah, it's sad.

1137
01:00:17,320 --> 01:00:20,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just kind of this weird like you know,

1138
01:00:20,840 --> 01:00:24,560
Speaker 1: puppets have been like a thing, and like they they

1139
01:00:24,600 --> 01:00:27,400
Speaker 1: hold the like the muppets hold this like load bearing

1140
01:00:27,440 --> 01:00:30,800
Speaker 1: place in popular culture because they're like our main muppets

1141
01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:33,720
Speaker 1: are our main puppets, you know, right, Like there's a

1142
01:00:33,760 --> 01:00:36,840
Speaker 1: quote from Bonnie Erickson where she's saying they've been a

1143
01:00:36,880 --> 01:00:39,320
Speaker 1: tradition across the world for thousands of years as a

1144
01:00:39,320 --> 01:00:42,640
Speaker 1: form of storytelling, but until recently, they haven't been appreciated

1145
01:00:42,640 --> 01:00:44,640
Speaker 1: in the United States. We owe allot of that to

1146
01:00:45,040 --> 01:00:49,000
Speaker 1: Jim Henson's vision, and so like there's something like sort

1147
01:00:49,040 --> 01:00:53,960
Speaker 1: of magical about puppets that like these being the main

1148
01:00:54,080 --> 01:00:58,160
Speaker 1: pop culture puppets like allows them to just like occupy

1149
01:00:58,240 --> 01:01:01,080
Speaker 1: this weird space where we're like, are Piggy and Kermit

1150
01:01:01,160 --> 01:01:06,640
Speaker 1: gonna like get together together at any given time?

1151
01:01:07,080 --> 01:01:07,560
Speaker 3: Right? Right?

1152
01:01:08,640 --> 01:01:10,760
Speaker 4: And now, Jamie I bet you'd feel terrible if you

1153
01:01:10,800 --> 01:01:14,840
Speaker 4: read that. I've read that Fozzy odd after a bad

1154
01:01:14,920 --> 01:01:18,120
Speaker 4: open mic gig or something. Wouldn't you what did you

1155
01:01:18,160 --> 01:01:18,720
Speaker 4: just do it?

1156
01:01:18,840 --> 01:01:22,720
Speaker 2: Look? You know my dark Fozzy movie is Fozzy's in

1157
01:01:22,960 --> 01:01:27,840
Speaker 2: aa uh and like, who's Fozzy's sponsor? I do feel

1158
01:01:27,880 --> 01:01:29,880
Speaker 2: like Fozzy can't drink anymore?

1159
01:01:30,280 --> 01:01:35,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't drink. I feel like almost might be sponsors. Yes,

1160
01:01:35,280 --> 01:01:38,240
Speaker 1: almost Dad, he's almost dad like kind of has like

1161
01:01:38,360 --> 01:01:42,480
Speaker 1: old you know, musician vibe a lot of ship.

1162
01:01:44,000 --> 01:01:46,880
Speaker 3: I was drinking hand doing heroin. They're like, oh fuck,

1163
01:01:47,000 --> 01:01:48,720
Speaker 3: all right, man, all right, almost dad.

1164
01:01:49,800 --> 01:01:52,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, almost Dad is seeing ship. You don't just raise

1165
01:01:52,280 --> 01:01:54,160
Speaker 2: a kid like that like Elmo.

1166
01:01:54,920 --> 01:01:57,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, it almost makes a lot of sense. And

1167
01:01:57,120 --> 01:01:58,880
Speaker 4: you see the dad, You're like, oh okay.

1168
01:01:58,920 --> 01:02:01,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean like the grand context Almo. Actually

1169
01:02:01,960 --> 01:02:03,240
Speaker 2: it comes into sharp focus.

1170
01:02:04,960 --> 01:02:05,160
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1171
01:02:05,160 --> 01:02:07,960
Speaker 1: I do wonder like what the drug seems like with

1172
01:02:08,440 --> 01:02:11,040
Speaker 1: the Muppets, you know, just generally.

1173
01:02:11,200 --> 01:02:14,160
Speaker 2: I mean like the band, the band has to Oh yeah,

1174
01:02:14,200 --> 01:02:16,400
Speaker 2: that is I love the band so much.

1175
01:02:18,160 --> 01:02:22,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't think they're doing intravenous drugs, but a

1176
01:02:22,680 --> 01:02:23,040
Speaker 4: lot of.

1177
01:02:23,000 --> 01:02:25,280
Speaker 1: Acid in the band I'd have to assume, right.

1178
01:02:25,200 --> 01:02:28,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, let's keep it fun. They keep it fun.

1179
01:02:29,080 --> 01:02:29,720
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah yeah.

1180
01:02:29,720 --> 01:02:33,400
Speaker 4: Stuff that just kind of makes them more muppetty if.

1181
01:02:33,280 --> 01:02:33,680
Speaker 3: That's a.

1182
01:02:35,400 --> 01:02:37,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, something makes you like taste colors?

1183
01:02:37,840 --> 01:02:42,360
Speaker 1: Nothing, I will say just the last thing I have

1184
01:02:42,400 --> 01:02:47,320
Speaker 1: about Miss Piggies. I feel like to encapsulate the weird.

1185
01:02:47,360 --> 01:02:48,880
Speaker 3: Place that she occupies.

1186
01:02:48,920 --> 01:02:52,520
Speaker 1: I don't think any other children's character could have simulated

1187
01:02:52,520 --> 01:02:53,400
Speaker 1: an orgasm.

1188
01:02:53,920 --> 01:02:54,840
Speaker 3: Did you have you guys?

1189
01:02:54,880 --> 01:02:57,919
Speaker 1: Do you remember that thing where she was like doing

1190
01:02:57,960 --> 01:03:01,000
Speaker 1: a parody of when Harry Sally with Billy Crystal?

1191
01:03:01,200 --> 01:03:04,040
Speaker 2: Oh oh no, wait wait did that happen?

1192
01:03:04,880 --> 01:03:09,360
Speaker 1: They It was the early nineties and she did it

1193
01:03:09,400 --> 01:03:12,160
Speaker 1: as like a fake sneeze, but she really like it

1194
01:03:12,200 --> 01:03:15,480
Speaker 1: was a long time and it was on the Disney Channel.

1195
01:03:15,320 --> 01:03:18,240
Speaker 3: Too, Yeah, and on Muppets tonight.

1196
01:03:18,600 --> 01:03:23,480
Speaker 6: Yeah, so kissing over what happened with your hot bit

1197
01:03:23,720 --> 01:03:24,240
Speaker 6: last night?

1198
01:03:24,560 --> 01:03:25,920
Speaker 3: Oh, Skelly was a disaster.

1199
01:03:26,080 --> 01:03:26,720
Speaker 7: She canceled.

1200
01:03:26,800 --> 01:03:27,640
Speaker 6: She had a bad cold.

1201
01:03:28,080 --> 01:03:31,240
Speaker 2: Are you sure she had a cold, Yes, I'm sure

1202
01:03:31,280 --> 01:03:32,200
Speaker 2: she had a curl.

1203
01:03:32,720 --> 01:03:34,440
Speaker 1: I heard a sneeze twice.

1204
01:03:39,240 --> 01:03:40,960
Speaker 3: Even taste amusing more.

1205
01:03:41,280 --> 01:03:44,240
Speaker 7: Did you ever think she may have faked the sneeze

1206
01:03:44,280 --> 01:03:45,880
Speaker 7: to get out of the date with you?

1207
01:03:46,680 --> 01:03:50,360
Speaker 3: Take the snave no way ticket.

1208
01:03:51,160 --> 01:03:54,800
Speaker 2: Most women, at one time or another have faked a sneeze.

1209
01:03:54,960 --> 01:03:55,840
Speaker 8: Take it out of a date?

1210
01:03:56,520 --> 01:03:59,480
Speaker 6: Really well, excuse him, moa, miss I'm jealous of babe.

1211
01:04:00,440 --> 01:04:02,400
Speaker 6: You don't think that I can tell the difference between

1212
01:04:02,520 --> 01:04:06,560
Speaker 6: a real sneeze and a fake sneeze.

1213
01:04:08,160 --> 01:04:10,840
Speaker 3: So good killing it with the performance.

1214
01:04:13,160 --> 01:04:19,160
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's not how people sneeze.

1215
01:04:20,480 --> 01:04:31,439
Speaker 7: Oh yo, Channel.

1216
01:04:31,640 --> 01:04:32,200
Speaker 5: No, it's.

1217
01:04:42,760 --> 01:04:44,800
Speaker 3: God, this is your twit is.

1218
01:04:47,200 --> 01:04:50,280
Speaker 2: I love the Disney Channel logo just hanging out down yeh.

1219
01:04:54,640 --> 01:05:03,960
Speaker 7: Wow, wait all have what having lets Peppa?

1220
01:05:08,240 --> 01:05:11,120
Speaker 3: That was when you said it was a fake sneeze.

1221
01:05:11,160 --> 01:05:13,320
Speaker 3: I'm like, okay, they'll play with it. I didn't expect

1222
01:05:13,360 --> 01:05:17,720
Speaker 3: her to be daggering the table like that on her feet,

1223
01:05:19,280 --> 01:05:22,360
Speaker 3: little thing she was pumping.

1224
01:05:23,440 --> 01:05:25,720
Speaker 1: Even a part where like Billy Crystal starts like doing

1225
01:05:25,720 --> 01:05:26,400
Speaker 1: a weird thing.

1226
01:05:27,320 --> 01:05:27,840
Speaker 3: What do you do?

1227
01:05:28,240 --> 01:05:32,080
Speaker 2: Stop that man gets so weird about miss Piggy, I

1228
01:05:32,120 --> 01:05:35,640
Speaker 2: mean weird about Miss piggy ciscal thing. This ciscal thing

1229
01:05:35,760 --> 01:05:39,680
Speaker 2: really says it all. Where he's like, oh, she's so amazing,

1230
01:05:39,800 --> 01:05:42,960
Speaker 2: she's and did you see her legs? And you're like,

1231
01:05:43,040 --> 01:05:50,480
Speaker 2: there's there there's the line. I remember I never watched it,

1232
01:05:50,560 --> 01:05:55,040
Speaker 2: but I'm always like one small illness away from watching.

1233
01:05:56,120 --> 01:05:59,840
Speaker 2: Do you ever Lady Gaga and the Muppets did like

1234
01:06:00,240 --> 01:06:03,120
Speaker 2: special together. It was like maybe ten years ago, but

1235
01:06:03,200 --> 01:06:05,520
Speaker 2: Lady Gaga and the Muppets did a big thing together

1236
01:06:05,600 --> 01:06:07,800
Speaker 2: and I never saw it, but I feel like she

1237
01:06:07,880 --> 01:06:10,640
Speaker 2: and Miss Piggy must have really been vibing, because now

1238
01:06:10,760 --> 01:06:13,160
Speaker 2: the Brina Carpenter is going to be in a Muppet special.

1239
01:06:13,720 --> 01:06:21,400
Speaker 3: Wow, And I love it was a holiday spectacular, is

1240
01:06:21,440 --> 01:06:22,439
Speaker 3: what they did. Yeah?

1241
01:06:22,480 --> 01:06:27,800
Speaker 2: Oh yes, twenty thirteen with the Gosh twenty thirteen with

1242
01:06:27,920 --> 01:06:35,640
Speaker 2: guest stars Joseph Gordon Levitt. Of course he's not. He's

1243
01:06:35,680 --> 01:06:38,280
Speaker 2: not fucking like that these days. I mean, Jason Siegel

1244
01:06:38,320 --> 01:06:40,600
Speaker 2: briefly had custody of the Muppets and then he had

1245
01:06:40,600 --> 01:06:42,560
Speaker 2: to give them back, and that's that's for the best.

1246
01:06:42,600 --> 01:06:44,280
Speaker 3: Probably, that's true. That's true.

1247
01:06:44,480 --> 01:06:46,560
Speaker 1: That was a wild time when we were just like,

1248
01:06:47,080 --> 01:06:49,800
Speaker 1: let's see what Jason Siegel does with it. It's like, oh,

1249
01:06:50,040 --> 01:06:52,400
Speaker 1: just have him and a new Muppet he made up

1250
01:06:52,720 --> 01:06:53,840
Speaker 1: be on screen.

1251
01:06:54,000 --> 01:06:56,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, the new Muppet, Like, what the fuck was that that?

1252
01:06:57,000 --> 01:06:59,200
Speaker 2: But the songs were great, the sounds.

1253
01:06:58,920 --> 01:07:01,680
Speaker 1: Were really good. I thought that movie was like pretty

1254
01:07:01,800 --> 01:07:03,640
Speaker 1: fun and the and the music was good.

1255
01:07:04,120 --> 01:07:05,560
Speaker 2: He just didn't need the new guy.

1256
01:07:05,960 --> 01:07:08,480
Speaker 1: No, what was his name, Walter? They didn't even give

1257
01:07:08,520 --> 01:07:09,120
Speaker 1: him a cool mann.

1258
01:07:10,520 --> 01:07:12,680
Speaker 3: I don't know Walter, I work in it.

1259
01:07:13,400 --> 01:07:17,960
Speaker 1: What the Miss Piggy, Kermit, the Frog and Walter, which

1260
01:07:17,960 --> 01:07:20,680
Speaker 1: I guess was kind of the point. But that point

1261
01:07:21,120 --> 01:07:26,480
Speaker 1: that sucks, all right? Any anything else about Miss Piggy

1262
01:07:26,520 --> 01:07:28,600
Speaker 1: you guys want to talk about before we get out

1263
01:07:28,600 --> 01:07:28,880
Speaker 1: of here.

1264
01:07:29,240 --> 01:07:31,120
Speaker 4: No, I was just I think before the recording, I

1265
01:07:31,160 --> 01:07:35,000
Speaker 4: was just saying, it's funny that how how much of

1266
01:07:35,040 --> 01:07:39,760
Speaker 4: a cultural mainstay Miss Piggy is because we had like

1267
01:07:40,040 --> 01:07:44,600
Speaker 4: Donald Trump calling people piggy. There's like TikTok videos I'm

1268
01:07:44,640 --> 01:07:47,640
Speaker 4: seeing talking about Miss Piggy not being in the Epstein files.

1269
01:07:48,000 --> 01:07:51,200
Speaker 4: And then there was a story about the woman who

1270
01:07:51,640 --> 01:07:55,320
Speaker 4: allegedly hit a child on a plane because the child

1271
01:07:55,360 --> 01:07:56,440
Speaker 4: called her miss Peggy.

1272
01:07:57,720 --> 01:07:59,840
Speaker 1: Couldn't have been the first time a child has called her.

1273
01:08:00,080 --> 01:08:02,600
Speaker 4: A Maryland woman is facing charges after police in Florida

1274
01:08:02,600 --> 01:08:04,440
Speaker 4: said she hit a child who made fun of her

1275
01:08:04,480 --> 01:08:05,720
Speaker 4: on a flight from Orlando.

1276
01:08:06,160 --> 01:08:08,520
Speaker 3: Holy shit, that she slammed the child's head into the.

1277
01:08:08,520 --> 01:08:11,840
Speaker 8: Window of the plane for corner Miss Oh Yeah, I'm

1278
01:08:11,880 --> 01:08:14,080
Speaker 8: to say, a lot of a lot of energy.

1279
01:08:15,160 --> 01:08:15,880
Speaker 3: A legacy you.

1280
01:08:15,800 --> 01:08:20,360
Speaker 2: Can look like anything. A legacy you can look like yeah, yeah, yeah,

1281
01:08:20,439 --> 01:08:22,640
Speaker 2: I'm just happy that, Like I mean, it's it's like

1282
01:08:23,560 --> 01:08:25,519
Speaker 2: the fact that kids still know who she is, even

1283
01:08:25,560 --> 01:08:27,840
Speaker 2: though the Muppets haven't really like put out a successful

1284
01:08:27,880 --> 01:08:31,400
Speaker 2: project in like fifteen years. Yeah, for their whole lives

1285
01:08:31,439 --> 01:08:33,360
Speaker 2: is like crazy.

1286
01:08:33,400 --> 01:08:34,680
Speaker 4: You got to be like, I mean, it's the same

1287
01:08:34,720 --> 01:08:37,240
Speaker 4: way like I show my kid that stuff because I'm like, yeah,

1288
01:08:37,280 --> 01:08:38,719
Speaker 4: you're gonna love this bullshit.

1289
01:08:38,800 --> 01:08:43,200
Speaker 3: I love these freaky fucking Muppets. You're gonna love them too, Yeah,

1290
01:08:43,240 --> 01:08:45,040
Speaker 3: And they do, and they fucking do.

1291
01:08:45,240 --> 01:08:47,479
Speaker 4: Like it's it's like it feels like one of the

1292
01:08:47,520 --> 01:08:49,720
Speaker 4: few things of like I've tried to show my son,

1293
01:08:49,840 --> 01:08:53,000
Speaker 4: like other shit like I thought was cool from my child,

1294
01:08:53,080 --> 01:08:54,720
Speaker 4: and he's like this shit like you can just tell.

1295
01:08:54,760 --> 01:08:56,760
Speaker 4: I mean, he's like not even three yet, but it's

1296
01:08:56,880 --> 01:09:00,160
Speaker 4: very clear when something captivates him or not. And I

1297
01:09:00,200 --> 01:09:03,599
Speaker 4: showed him the Muppet Christmas Carol. His attention was there

1298
01:09:03,640 --> 01:09:05,640
Speaker 4: the entire time. I could not believe it.

1299
01:09:05,680 --> 01:09:08,519
Speaker 2: And A Man of Taste, A Man of Taste, that's

1300
01:09:08,560 --> 01:09:11,000
Speaker 2: the best Christmas movie I think it is like truly

1301
01:09:11,080 --> 01:09:12,000
Speaker 2: my favorite Christmas.

1302
01:09:12,040 --> 01:09:20,480
Speaker 4: He loves Michael Kine. He loves Michael k.

1303
01:09:20,160 --> 01:09:22,640
Speaker 1: Jamie, Where can people find you? Follow you all that

1304
01:09:22,680 --> 01:09:23,280
Speaker 1: good stuff?

1305
01:09:23,760 --> 01:09:26,960
Speaker 2: You can find me on the Bechtel Cast every week

1306
01:09:28,160 --> 01:09:30,639
Speaker 2: every Thursday from now till the end of time. Mark

1307
01:09:30,720 --> 01:09:34,920
Speaker 2: my words. Caitlyn Toronto and I are gonna cover movies

1308
01:09:34,920 --> 01:09:38,800
Speaker 2: from an intersexual feminist perspective and then mostly I think

1309
01:09:39,360 --> 01:09:46,120
Speaker 2: Instagram Jamie christ Superstar. Yeah, I've been hosting as much.

1310
01:09:46,160 --> 01:09:49,080
Speaker 2: I'm starting to feel too healthy, So maybe I'll start.

1311
01:09:48,800 --> 01:09:49,840
Speaker 1: You got to get back in there.

1312
01:09:51,080 --> 01:09:53,280
Speaker 3: I gotta get call you back, let it summon you

1313
01:09:53,360 --> 01:09:56,080
Speaker 3: back into the pit miles.

1314
01:09:56,080 --> 01:09:57,000
Speaker 1: Where can people find you?

1315
01:09:57,520 --> 01:09:58,040
Speaker 3: Everywhere?

1316
01:09:58,360 --> 01:09:58,639
Speaker 7: Wow?

1317
01:09:58,640 --> 01:10:00,200
Speaker 1: Perfect? Right?

1318
01:10:01,040 --> 01:10:03,120
Speaker 3: All right, that's it? Sorry not to stick around.

1319
01:10:04,439 --> 01:10:07,640
Speaker 2: University, Yeah, university.

1320
01:10:08,760 --> 01:10:11,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it comes out on Christmas or Christmas Eve?

1321
01:10:13,880 --> 01:10:14,160
Speaker 4: Nine?

1322
01:10:14,920 --> 01:10:17,679
Speaker 1: Long have we been doing this for that many years?

1323
01:10:17,920 --> 01:10:21,240
Speaker 2: Hasn't gotten any better? And and this year is not

1324
01:10:21,320 --> 01:10:25,960
Speaker 2: going to be different. Wow, just keeps getting longer. X

1325
01:10:26,080 --> 01:10:30,240
Speaker 2: Santa U x X is going to be God.

1326
01:10:30,560 --> 01:10:33,679
Speaker 4: You're gonna do like a live performance like the Disney Theater,

1327
01:10:33,800 --> 01:10:34,880
Speaker 4: the Disney Hall or something.

1328
01:10:34,920 --> 01:10:37,360
Speaker 2: I've started to apply for grants because we got it.

1329
01:10:37,439 --> 01:10:40,320
Speaker 2: We gotta get this in the Dolby. We gotta get

1330
01:10:40,320 --> 01:10:43,480
Speaker 2: it in the Dolby, I think, or at least Gromans.

1331
01:10:43,800 --> 01:10:45,040
Speaker 2: We gotta get Gromans.

1332
01:10:45,240 --> 01:10:47,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's easy. That's easy.

1333
01:10:47,120 --> 01:10:47,880
Speaker 2: We'll figure it out.

1334
01:10:48,040 --> 01:10:49,760
Speaker 3: We'll do the montalband easy.

1335
01:10:50,880 --> 01:10:54,600
Speaker 2: I'd even take the roof, come on, yeah, yeah.

1336
01:10:53,920 --> 01:10:57,120
Speaker 3: I definitely take the Montalban roof. It's beautiful up there. Anyway.

1337
01:10:57,320 --> 01:10:58,880
Speaker 3: Stay tuned, Stay tuned.

1338
01:10:58,640 --> 01:11:01,200
Speaker 1: Stay tuned. Stick around for the No No No notebook

1339
01:11:01,280 --> 01:11:04,040
Speaker 1: dump where I get to stuff that I didn't get

1340
01:11:04,040 --> 01:11:10,360
Speaker 1: to in the episode. And bye bye bye. All right,

1341
01:11:10,680 --> 01:11:15,280
Speaker 1: that was our episode. Always great to see Jamie loftus.

1342
01:11:15,920 --> 01:11:20,519
Speaker 1: This is the No No notebook dump where I get

1343
01:11:20,520 --> 01:11:21,920
Speaker 1: to stuff that I didn't get to in the main

1344
01:11:21,960 --> 01:11:25,639
Speaker 1: episode that I wanted to. On the subject to Bonnie

1345
01:11:25,680 --> 01:11:29,080
Speaker 1: ericson Miss Piggy's Designer, this has nothing to do with

1346
01:11:29,120 --> 01:11:32,040
Speaker 1: Miss Piggy, so I didn't bring it up in our conversation,

1347
01:11:32,080 --> 01:11:35,160
Speaker 1: but a quick anecdote that I discovered during research that

1348
01:11:35,200 --> 01:11:38,760
Speaker 1: my brain couldn't put down, so I wanted to pass

1349
01:11:38,800 --> 01:11:42,280
Speaker 1: it along to your brain, like the Supernatural std from

1350
01:11:42,360 --> 01:11:46,439
Speaker 1: It follows, So Bonnie Erickson this accomplished designer. She's created

1351
01:11:46,439 --> 01:11:50,160
Speaker 1: Miss Piggy and the Philly Fanatic, and she gets asked

1352
01:11:50,400 --> 01:11:54,280
Speaker 1: to design the mascot for the biggest sports franchise in

1353
01:11:54,320 --> 01:11:56,599
Speaker 1: the world. I think the New York Yankees. I think

1354
01:11:56,960 --> 01:12:00,480
Speaker 1: it's them or the Dallas Cowboys, but you know they're

1355
01:12:00,760 --> 01:12:04,280
Speaker 1: near the top. And so she creates this large, pinstriped

1356
01:12:04,479 --> 01:12:08,160
Speaker 1: bird like creature with a mustache. The mustache is designed

1357
01:12:08,200 --> 01:12:11,519
Speaker 1: to look like the most beloved Yankee on the team

1358
01:12:11,560 --> 01:12:14,320
Speaker 1: at the time, maybe of the decade of the seventies,

1359
01:12:14,600 --> 01:12:18,439
Speaker 1: Yankees catcher Thurman Munson. He got a big mustache. Bird

1360
01:12:18,439 --> 01:12:22,960
Speaker 1: has a big mustache. Win win. So, as his debut

1361
01:12:23,040 --> 01:12:28,000
Speaker 1: as Dandy the Pinstriped Bird's debut is approaching, two things happen.

1362
01:12:28,760 --> 01:12:32,760
Speaker 1: I'm gonna pull from the Wikipedia here Bonnie Erickson's Wikipedia

1363
01:12:33,320 --> 01:12:36,759
Speaker 1: on July tenth, nineteen seventy nine, the San Diego Chicken,

1364
01:12:37,160 --> 01:12:40,800
Speaker 1: who was then working for the Seattle Mariners. Apparently mascots

1365
01:12:40,800 --> 01:12:43,320
Speaker 1: can be like kind of free agents and move between teams,

1366
01:12:43,360 --> 01:12:45,960
Speaker 1: which I didn't realize, But so the San Diego Chicken

1367
01:12:46,040 --> 01:12:49,840
Speaker 1: put a hex on Yankees pitcher Ron Gidry during a

1368
01:12:49,880 --> 01:12:54,240
Speaker 1: game at the Seattle, Kingdom. Yankees outfielder Lou Panella, who

1369
01:12:54,240 --> 01:12:58,280
Speaker 1: had gone to manage baseball teams, responded by chasing the

1370
01:12:58,320 --> 01:13:02,640
Speaker 1: mascot and throwing his glove at him. In response, the

1371
01:13:02,720 --> 01:13:06,479
Speaker 1: Yankees owner George Steinbrenner said that mascots have no place

1372
01:13:06,520 --> 01:13:11,360
Speaker 1: in baseball, which despite the imminent release of Dandy, who's

1373
01:13:11,360 --> 01:13:15,000
Speaker 1: supposed to be their mascot. So Dandy does in fact

1374
01:13:15,120 --> 01:13:19,080
Speaker 1: debut in late July nineteen seventy nine, weeks after the

1375
01:13:19,120 --> 01:13:23,040
Speaker 1: incident in Seattle, and then Thurman Munson dies in a

1376
01:13:23,080 --> 01:13:28,479
Speaker 1: plane crash on August second, like a week after Dandy

1377
01:13:29,080 --> 01:13:34,200
Speaker 1: is introduced. Dandy's immediately put on hiatus. They eventually let

1378
01:13:34,320 --> 01:13:36,920
Speaker 1: him come into the stadium, but he's confined to the

1379
01:13:37,000 --> 01:13:42,200
Speaker 1: upper deck area like the cheap seats, and it doesn't

1380
01:13:42,200 --> 01:13:47,839
Speaker 1: work out. Ericson and her partner Harrison declined the Yankees'

1381
01:13:47,840 --> 01:13:51,639
Speaker 1: request to sign another lease. They feel the mascot didn't

1382
01:13:51,680 --> 01:13:55,439
Speaker 1: receive the necessary support from management. So yeah, you win some,

1383
01:13:55,560 --> 01:13:58,120
Speaker 1: you lose some. She goes on to design plenty of

1384
01:13:58,120 --> 01:14:01,040
Speaker 1: other mascots, has a bunch of mascots still roaming stadiums

1385
01:14:01,080 --> 01:14:04,360
Speaker 1: in the NBA. She describes her mascots as all being

1386
01:14:04,520 --> 01:14:09,280
Speaker 1: gentle anarchists, which fucking rules. But I think that speaks

1387
01:14:09,320 --> 01:14:14,080
Speaker 1: to the power of puppets and mascots. Back to Miss Piggy,

1388
01:14:14,120 --> 01:14:16,360
Speaker 1: a couple ideas I wanted to get at but couldn't

1389
01:14:16,439 --> 01:14:20,439
Speaker 1: quite get right in our conversation. One has to do

1390
01:14:20,520 --> 01:14:24,720
Speaker 1: with Miss Piggy's relationship with Kermit the Frog, which obviously

1391
01:14:25,120 --> 01:14:29,120
Speaker 1: a very important part of her mythos and iconography. I

1392
01:14:29,120 --> 01:14:32,400
Speaker 1: didn't spend enough time talking about it in the episode

1393
01:14:32,520 --> 01:14:36,360
Speaker 1: because it's kind of confusing, like they're together, they get

1394
01:14:36,400 --> 01:14:40,599
Speaker 1: married in either Muppets Take Manhattan or The Great Muppet

1395
01:14:40,640 --> 01:14:43,719
Speaker 1: Caper I forget, but then like that gets retconned out.

1396
01:14:43,760 --> 01:14:48,160
Speaker 1: They say the priest was like actually defrocked, like sort

1397
01:14:48,200 --> 01:14:51,640
Speaker 1: of that, so that is no longer canon. But they're

1398
01:14:51,760 --> 01:14:53,960
Speaker 1: just always back and forth. They say they're life partners

1399
01:14:54,000 --> 01:14:58,000
Speaker 1: who live together. Kermit has said they've never been together.

1400
01:14:58,560 --> 01:15:02,040
Speaker 1: It's the ultimate will they won't they, which makes sense

1401
01:15:02,040 --> 01:15:05,919
Speaker 1: from a narrative perspective, But you know, beyond the obvious

1402
01:15:06,200 --> 01:15:08,799
Speaker 1: narrative hook, I think there's another way that it's important

1403
01:15:08,840 --> 01:15:11,920
Speaker 1: to her status as an icon, because so my working

1404
01:15:11,960 --> 01:15:14,080
Speaker 1: theory of the icons we've covered so far, is that

1405
01:15:14,200 --> 01:15:18,160
Speaker 1: it helps to have some contradiction at the core of

1406
01:15:18,360 --> 01:15:21,680
Speaker 1: like our perception of you, you know, like so our

1407
01:15:21,720 --> 01:15:25,200
Speaker 1: brains can't just like put you down. That's what that's

1408
01:15:25,200 --> 01:15:27,559
Speaker 1: what my brain wants to do. When I'm introduced to

1409
01:15:27,600 --> 01:15:31,080
Speaker 1: a new famous person or a character, I just want

1410
01:15:31,080 --> 01:15:35,200
Speaker 1: to put them down. There's too many famous people and characters.

1411
01:15:35,280 --> 01:15:37,920
Speaker 1: I'm already holding all this shit. I don't want to

1412
01:15:37,960 --> 01:15:40,280
Speaker 1: I don't want to have to know another one. So

1413
01:15:40,560 --> 01:15:45,120
Speaker 1: if a character or like a person is what you expect,

1414
01:15:45,120 --> 01:15:47,400
Speaker 1: if it's like a jock who seems like a cocky dick,

1415
01:15:47,520 --> 01:15:50,240
Speaker 1: or like a nerd who seems like he lacks confidence,

1416
01:15:51,120 --> 01:15:53,160
Speaker 1: I'm like, I know who that is. I can just

1417
01:15:53,200 --> 01:15:55,160
Speaker 1: put them away in a drawer and forget about them.

1418
01:15:55,200 --> 01:15:58,120
Speaker 1: But so all of these characters so far, or you know,

1419
01:15:58,200 --> 01:16:03,800
Speaker 1: real people with Einstein who become iconic, have something unexpected,

1420
01:16:03,920 --> 01:16:08,880
Speaker 1: like some contradiction. So with Einstein, a super genius who

1421
01:16:08,920 --> 01:16:11,880
Speaker 1: looks sloppy as hell, like can't remember to put his

1422
01:16:11,960 --> 01:16:15,160
Speaker 1: clothes on before he walks out the door, and we

1423
01:16:15,240 --> 01:16:18,080
Speaker 1: pretend he was a slow child, because that's important to us.

1424
01:16:18,160 --> 01:16:22,520
Speaker 1: We want that contradiction He's not like a Benedict Cumberbatch

1425
01:16:22,680 --> 01:16:26,600
Speaker 1: character who's a genius. He's like an absent spacey is

1426
01:16:26,640 --> 01:16:32,040
Speaker 1: that guy on something type genius erkle nerd. But he's

1427
01:16:32,080 --> 01:16:37,280
Speaker 1: also extremely confident and unflappable. And then with Miss Piggy,

1428
01:16:37,320 --> 01:16:41,600
Speaker 1: beyond the central contradiction of like glamorous pig lipstick on

1429
01:16:41,640 --> 01:16:44,240
Speaker 1: a pig as a businessman like to say, you know,

1430
01:16:44,479 --> 01:16:47,760
Speaker 1: that joke never even really occurred to me. But the

1431
01:16:48,080 --> 01:16:50,360
Speaker 1: contradiction that I think is important is that she's a

1432
01:16:50,920 --> 01:16:55,200
Speaker 1: motivated career woman who can and will beat the shit

1433
01:16:55,280 --> 01:16:57,679
Speaker 1: out of you to like get to the top. She's

1434
01:16:57,800 --> 01:17:03,479
Speaker 1: also primarily driven by her romantic love of Kermit the Frog,

1435
01:17:03,680 --> 01:17:06,960
Speaker 1: Like she'll cozy up to a producer to get a role,

1436
01:17:07,160 --> 01:17:11,599
Speaker 1: but ultimately she just wants to marry this mild mannered,

1437
01:17:12,360 --> 01:17:16,200
Speaker 1: multi talented absolute ten. But then she'll also just like

1438
01:17:16,280 --> 01:17:19,679
Speaker 1: bail on him repeatedly in order to put her career first.

1439
01:17:20,200 --> 01:17:23,720
Speaker 1: She's also sweet and sensitive, but a fucking straight up cannibal.

1440
01:17:24,080 --> 01:17:27,280
Speaker 1: So that's one idea that a contradiction is helpful to

1441
01:17:27,280 --> 01:17:31,439
Speaker 1: build an icon. And then another idea about why she's

1442
01:17:31,439 --> 01:17:35,080
Speaker 1: so iconic is where we were when she was introduced

1443
01:17:35,160 --> 01:17:39,800
Speaker 1: with our relationship to puppetry and just sexual politics at

1444
01:17:39,800 --> 01:17:42,920
Speaker 1: that point in history. I think Miss Piggy stands out

1445
01:17:43,160 --> 01:17:46,559
Speaker 1: among muppets for some of the reasons we talked about.

1446
01:17:46,680 --> 01:17:50,479
Speaker 1: She's a superstar in the narrative, but then she reads

1447
01:17:50,520 --> 01:17:53,000
Speaker 1: as a superstar on screen to the point that she

1448
01:17:53,080 --> 01:17:56,000
Speaker 1: made Gene Siskel come in his pants, which probably wasn't

1449
01:17:56,280 --> 01:17:59,040
Speaker 1: that hard to do. But I do think like the

1450
01:17:59,080 --> 01:18:03,920
Speaker 1: way that she was imbued with this kind of outsized

1451
01:18:04,040 --> 01:18:07,200
Speaker 1: energy that just like leaps off the screen and gives

1452
01:18:07,200 --> 01:18:11,120
Speaker 1: Gene Siskel a boner? Is she really like gave Frank

1453
01:18:11,200 --> 01:18:14,479
Speaker 1: Oz an outlet for what turned out to be a

1454
01:18:14,560 --> 01:18:20,240
Speaker 1: very developed and interesting feminine energy that he wasn't really

1455
01:18:20,280 --> 01:18:22,800
Speaker 1: allowed to express in any other way. I don't even

1456
01:18:22,840 --> 01:18:25,920
Speaker 1: know if he knew that he was looking to express it.

1457
01:18:26,400 --> 01:18:30,720
Speaker 1: And people couldn't really get that anywhere else in like

1458
01:18:31,160 --> 01:18:35,320
Speaker 1: super mainstream culture at the time, and obviously we wanted it.

1459
01:18:35,360 --> 01:18:38,640
Speaker 1: Look at how people have reacted to the freeing of

1460
01:18:38,880 --> 01:18:42,599
Speaker 1: drag culture and like the mainstreaming of drag culture. So

1461
01:18:42,880 --> 01:18:45,280
Speaker 1: Miss Piggy comes along at a time of like toxic

1462
01:18:45,360 --> 01:18:48,240
Speaker 1: masculinity in the late seventies at a time when frank

1463
01:18:48,280 --> 01:18:51,000
Speaker 1: Oz has to disclaim that he's straight when he's talking

1464
01:18:51,000 --> 01:18:55,360
Speaker 1: about playing her, and she's just like bursting with the

1465
01:18:55,439 --> 01:19:00,800
Speaker 1: divine feminine and like could express confidence and body positivity, horniness,

1466
01:19:00,800 --> 01:19:04,000
Speaker 1: and she could get away with it because she's a puppet,

1467
01:19:04,120 --> 01:19:10,040
Speaker 1: you know. And again, like puppetry is this ancient alchemical

1468
01:19:10,320 --> 01:19:14,960
Speaker 1: art that wasn't being used so ingeniously and with like

1469
01:19:15,160 --> 01:19:20,000
Speaker 1: such mainstream success anywhere else. I quoted Bonnie Erickson er

1470
01:19:20,320 --> 01:19:23,320
Speaker 1: Henson talking about I think they've both talked about how

1471
01:19:23,400 --> 01:19:26,760
Speaker 1: humans have used puppets for thousands of years in like

1472
01:19:26,880 --> 01:19:30,840
Speaker 1: religious rituals and healing and witchcraft. Look at how lou

1473
01:19:30,920 --> 01:19:34,280
Speaker 1: Panella reacted to a chicken mascot putting a curse on

1474
01:19:34,360 --> 01:19:36,759
Speaker 1: their picture. Like you could say he was being an idiot,

1475
01:19:37,040 --> 01:19:41,080
Speaker 1: but he was also reacting to this ancient, powerful human

1476
01:19:41,120 --> 01:19:44,599
Speaker 1: connection to this art form. And then Henson comes along

1477
01:19:44,760 --> 01:19:48,439
Speaker 1: and reconnects these jaded, pop culture drenched minds around the

1478
01:19:48,479 --> 01:19:52,960
Speaker 1: world with this ancient, deep yearning to watch someone breathe

1479
01:19:53,080 --> 01:19:57,800
Speaker 1: life and fully formed characters into inanimate objects. And also

1480
01:19:57,840 --> 01:20:01,559
Speaker 1: officially it's kid stuff. People can ssueing mainstream culture don't

1481
01:20:01,560 --> 01:20:05,000
Speaker 1: have their guards up. So ideas and energy comes through

1482
01:20:05,120 --> 01:20:08,919
Speaker 1: that they wouldn't usually let through this world of mainstream

1483
01:20:08,960 --> 01:20:11,599
Speaker 1: culture that was just getting used to the idea of

1484
01:20:11,640 --> 01:20:13,639
Speaker 1: like strong women let alone.

1485
01:20:13,720 --> 01:20:16,400
Speaker 2: Drag Act allows through this new.

1486
01:20:16,280 --> 01:20:20,160
Speaker 1: Dimension of like confident divadom that people weren't ready for,

1487
01:20:20,439 --> 01:20:23,479
Speaker 1: and it turns out we're deeply ready for at the

1488
01:20:23,479 --> 01:20:25,760
Speaker 1: same time. All right, that's going to do it. For

1489
01:20:25,840 --> 01:20:29,720
Speaker 1: the Miss Piggy episode next week. An icon who I

1490
01:20:29,760 --> 01:20:33,200
Speaker 1: don't think really fits with that conflict at the core

1491
01:20:33,240 --> 01:20:36,240
Speaker 1: of the icon rule that I just made up. I

1492
01:20:36,280 --> 01:20:39,320
Speaker 1: think he kind of takes your expectations of the type

1493
01:20:39,320 --> 01:20:43,200
Speaker 1: of person he would be and takes it like thirty

1494
01:20:43,240 --> 01:20:47,200
Speaker 1: steps further, just like maximalism all all the way down.

1495
01:20:47,920 --> 01:20:52,000
Speaker 1: We're talking Arnold toward Szenegger. So we have a great

1496
01:20:52,040 --> 01:20:55,080
Speaker 1: guest for that one. So I will talk to you then,

1497
01:20:55,600 --> 01:20:57,439
Speaker 1: or I'll talk to you in a few hours if

1498
01:20:57,479 --> 01:20:59,960
Speaker 1: you listen to the regular episodes of The Daily Zeichast,

1499
01:21:00,600 --> 01:21:02,600
Speaker 1: Bye bye

1500
01:21:04,760 --> 01:21:05,120
Speaker 2: MHM.