WEBVTT - Emergency 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:03.640 You're listening waiting on reparations of production of I Heart Radio. 0:00:05.400 --> 0:00:07.200 They heard the shot, but I never had the chance 0:00:07.240 --> 0:00:10.000 to see the smoking gun, T shirts. Soaking blood is 0:00:10.200 --> 0:00:14.000 leaking up over the linoleum, holding onto the bottle. Still. 0:00:14.040 --> 0:00:15.920 They could have called the hospital, but they learned the 0:00:15.920 --> 0:00:19.760 cops convinced of images of Nigga kids as hostile kids. 0:00:19.760 --> 0:00:22.239 This nation hates us and wants us to hate us too. 0:00:22.280 --> 0:00:25.759 It's advantageous when niggas hate Asians, and Asians a niggas. 0:00:25.800 --> 0:00:27.960 So when a shot keep it faving robbery is an 0:00:28.000 --> 0:00:32.680 innocent teenager dump. The system isn't broken, No, it's fully operational. 0:00:32.800 --> 0:00:34.879 We watched it work this way so well since way 0:00:34.960 --> 0:00:38.120 before that faithful day in April nine two, when we 0:00:38.200 --> 0:00:40.320 riot looted, when we raised help, we but finally through 0:00:40.479 --> 0:00:42.839 being escape goats for the neighborhoods, you can find us too, 0:00:42.920 --> 0:00:44.839 to the grinding lops you assigned us to, with your 0:00:44.840 --> 0:00:47.040 griming schools and your crack rocks and your bad cops 0:00:47.080 --> 0:00:50.000 and these white jerseys that blindly choose complicity. Who find 0:00:50.000 --> 0:00:53.159 shootings in this city so commonplace to sign faiths like 0:00:53.240 --> 0:00:56.480 eight balls so flippantly for centuries we stayed calm, but 0:00:56.520 --> 0:00:58.639 a new day is done and you best believe at 0:00:58.640 --> 0:01:03.320 reeks and napalm. I wrote that verse for Latasha Harlan's, 0:01:03.720 --> 0:01:05.480 a fifteen year old girl who was shot in the 0:01:05.480 --> 0:01:07.720 back of the head by a Korean grocery store owner 0:01:07.760 --> 0:01:12.319 in Los Angeles. We talked a lot about Rodney King, 0:01:12.319 --> 0:01:14.920 but Latasha Harland's death too, was a catalyst for the 0:01:15.040 --> 0:01:19.080 l a riots that followed in the subsequent year. We 0:01:19.120 --> 0:01:36.760 haven't seen violence like that since until now. A uh yeah, yeah, 0:01:36.760 --> 0:01:39.720 my name's Dope Knife. What's up? I'm Lingua franca and 0:01:40.040 --> 0:01:46.520 waiting on RepA so um. When we started this podcast, 0:01:47.760 --> 0:01:51.840 the world and it's a regular state, was just fucked up, 0:01:52.520 --> 0:01:55.400 just regular fund up, just regular fucked up. And then 0:01:56.160 --> 0:02:00.960 fucking plague hit COVID and we went on lockdown. That 0:02:01.080 --> 0:02:03.600 we've been on lockdown for twelve weeks now, and the 0:02:03.640 --> 0:02:07.040 whole world has changed. The whole world has changed. Then 0:02:07.400 --> 0:02:10.800 last week George Floyd was murdered at the hands of 0:02:10.840 --> 0:02:13.960 for Minneapolis p D. And in the wake of it, 0:02:14.560 --> 0:02:19.079 we start seeing national protests, civil unrest the likes of 0:02:19.120 --> 0:02:21.720 which the country hasn't seen in the generations our whole 0:02:21.760 --> 0:02:23.520 plan to launch this show kind of had to go 0:02:23.560 --> 0:02:26.000 out the window, and we hadn't had to reassess what 0:02:26.040 --> 0:02:30.200 we're gonna do. Because as black folks that are politically 0:02:30.200 --> 0:02:35.680 committed to struggle and aware and following not only what's 0:02:35.680 --> 0:02:37.760 happening now, but following what has been going on in 0:02:37.760 --> 0:02:41.400 this country for decades and following it very closely in 0:02:41.440 --> 0:02:44.959 recent years. Uh, we feel it's important for us to 0:02:45.000 --> 0:02:49.680 speak out right now and to articulate what our experiences 0:02:49.680 --> 0:02:51.360 have been as well as what our vision is for 0:02:51.440 --> 0:02:54.880 what's coming next. So this isn't gonna be like our 0:02:54.960 --> 0:02:58.120 usual episode waiting on reparations that you guys are gonna hear. 0:02:58.440 --> 0:03:01.040 We're gonna kinda just talk from the heart about how 0:03:01.080 --> 0:03:04.760 we feel about what's going on. So welcome to it. 0:03:04.880 --> 0:03:10.160 My name's Dope Knife. I'm a rapper producer from Savannah, 0:03:10.240 --> 0:03:14.560 g A. Well, technically I'm not from anywhere, because I 0:03:14.560 --> 0:03:18.200 grew up overseas. My mother's Liberian, my father's American. He 0:03:18.280 --> 0:03:20.079 used to work for the State Department, and I grew 0:03:20.160 --> 0:03:25.440 up overseas. But um, I moved to the States to 0:03:25.520 --> 0:03:28.520 go to college and I've been here since and uh, 0:03:28.639 --> 0:03:32.560 I'm an independent musician. My name is Leewoa Franca a 0:03:32.639 --> 0:03:35.760 k a. Mariah Parker Um. In two thousand eighteen, I 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:38.800 was elected to the Athens Clark County Commission, where I 0:03:38.840 --> 0:03:42.280 have now served for two years on an abolitionist agenda 0:03:42.840 --> 0:03:47.880 and a pro worker, pro black um leftist agenda. I'm 0:03:47.920 --> 0:03:51.560 also hip hop artist, and I'm a linguist. Actually, I 0:03:51.560 --> 0:03:54.120 have a master's in linguistics and I'm getting my PhD 0:03:54.240 --> 0:03:57.840 Language and Literacy education at the University of Georgia. So 0:03:58.160 --> 0:04:00.400 I look at this for the LNDIP hip up from 0:04:00.400 --> 0:04:04.080 the lens of local policy, from the lens of linguistics 0:04:04.480 --> 0:04:07.560 and the lens of education. And so we're gonna have 0:04:07.800 --> 0:04:10.360 another episode coming out soon kind of explaining more about 0:04:10.400 --> 0:04:12.520 who we are and what this podcast has about, as 0:04:12.560 --> 0:04:16.560 well as other episodes about the labor movement, about prison abolition, 0:04:16.600 --> 0:04:19.560 about sex work, about all sorts of topics that tie 0:04:19.640 --> 0:04:21.800 hip hop and politics together. But today we're gonna just 0:04:21.839 --> 0:04:23.840 talk from the heart about what's happening in this country, 0:04:23.880 --> 0:04:26.479 what our experiences have been, and where we see things 0:04:26.520 --> 0:04:34.280 going from here. Talk to me about your relationship with 0:04:34.360 --> 0:04:39.479 the police. Well, I guess it's a not unsimilar to 0:04:39.600 --> 0:04:43.880 that of a lot of other black males. It hasn't 0:04:43.960 --> 0:04:48.800 been too positive of relationship. It's at this point it's 0:04:48.800 --> 0:04:51.600 almost like cliche. You know, I've never had a cop 0:04:51.680 --> 0:04:54.760 personally smile at me, you know what I mean. When 0:04:54.839 --> 0:04:58.400 I was around twenty one, I was walking home from 0:04:58.400 --> 0:05:01.520 work and was like walking in the middle of the street, 0:05:02.360 --> 0:05:04.160 so not really on the sidewalk, and it was like 0:05:04.200 --> 0:05:06.600 maybe like eleven o'clock at night. I got stopped by 0:05:06.640 --> 0:05:10.520 two cops and they were asking me why I was 0:05:10.560 --> 0:05:13.320 walking so close to the cars that were on the road. 0:05:14.360 --> 0:05:16.520 So I was explaining to them, It's like, oh, well, 0:05:16.839 --> 0:05:18.839 you know, I'm just walking home. I can get on 0:05:18.880 --> 0:05:24.440 the sidewalk if you want. They roughed me up and 0:05:25.000 --> 0:05:26.880 you know, I mean got me on the ground. They're 0:05:26.960 --> 0:05:30.839 like calling me, I'll sorts of names and ship and uh. 0:05:30.960 --> 0:05:40.040 It was it's like I told that story like mad times, 0:05:40.080 --> 0:05:46.040 but for whatever reason, they just like it feels a little, 0:05:46.120 --> 0:05:48.760 it feels different telling it now was hitting me too, 0:05:49.560 --> 0:05:54.040 but um, it's just like the main thing I took 0:05:54.080 --> 0:05:56.520 away from it is just like the feeling of like 0:05:56.520 --> 0:06:00.000 like powerlessness, you know, what can you do? And especially 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:01.920 in that situation where it's just like me alone and 0:06:01.920 --> 0:06:05.480 it's like dark, and it's like literally anything could happen. 0:06:05.520 --> 0:06:10.120 I mean, this was way before tray Von and you know, 0:06:10.200 --> 0:06:13.120 things like that. But again, at the same time, it's 0:06:13.200 --> 0:06:18.600 not like situations weren't known. It wasn't like this wasn't happening. 0:06:18.640 --> 0:06:22.040 It was definitely before it was before the like proliferation 0:06:22.200 --> 0:06:24.720 of the cell phone camp you know what I'm saying. 0:06:24.800 --> 0:06:27.359 So it was something I could definitely tell like my homies, 0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:31.120 tell my boys, tell my my mom, I pops, you 0:06:31.160 --> 0:06:33.840 know what I'm saying, like, and it was like, oh man, fun, sorry, 0:06:34.080 --> 0:06:36.839 you know, but it wasn't necessarily something that it was 0:06:36.920 --> 0:06:40.719 just like, Okay, well everybody knows that this is happening. 0:06:42.279 --> 0:06:45.640 Welcome to the bottom of the barrel, cops U J walking, 0:06:45.680 --> 0:06:48.159 put the glock to your apparel, lock you in the 0:06:48.240 --> 0:06:50.360 box for all the pot that's in your marrow, and 0:06:50.480 --> 0:06:52.960 even taking walks. Make you a talking for in there. Bro. 0:06:53.120 --> 0:06:55.039 I dare you to come let these crackers put you 0:06:55.080 --> 0:06:57.360 on a curfew. You could keep it real and let 0:06:57.360 --> 0:06:59.839 the silly niggas mrk you. I'll tell you what the deal. 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:02.840 We really ain't got no virtue. Survival requires work, and 0:07:02.880 --> 0:07:05.599 nobody really deserves you. When life is throwing them courage 0:07:05.640 --> 0:07:07.880 you strike probably solve it all of all the world's 0:07:07.960 --> 0:07:09.920 unite people worth the sight. I ain't got ship and 0:07:10.000 --> 0:07:12.560 nigger my purses tight. Heard it right, post a picture 0:07:12.600 --> 0:07:15.040 made the frame of perfect life. Nothing's worse than hype. 0:07:15.120 --> 0:07:17.880 We can all conserve the worst of slights. Financial rigor 0:07:17.920 --> 0:07:20.280 mortis got your throwing fits. Now you're ships. The story 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:22.320 that you was talking slick. Now you just sitping. Poor 0:07:22.360 --> 0:07:24.560 Ward's trying to penny pinch, of course, which can make 0:07:24.600 --> 0:07:27.480 you sick of poor ship, instead of sitting gorgeous creditors 0:07:27.520 --> 0:07:29.960 got picks and torches. This gap is massive and there's 0:07:30.000 --> 0:07:32.480 nothing to fill. Since that cop called me a fag 0:07:32.480 --> 0:07:34.960 and put a gun in my grill, I'm bugging for real. 0:07:35.240 --> 0:07:38.080 Prepped ourselves for forty five to touch down. Now we 0:07:38.160 --> 0:07:41.080 want to act mad. I don't give a funk now. 0:07:42.200 --> 0:07:51.400 I wrote that ship February two thousand and seventeen. You 0:07:51.440 --> 0:07:54.680 know when you always hear about when people talk about 0:07:54.880 --> 0:07:57.600 how oh will you only hear the bad things about 0:07:57.600 --> 0:07:59.360 cops and you never hear the good things about cops 0:07:59.400 --> 0:08:02.440 And stuff like that, and it's like, first of all, 0:08:02.480 --> 0:08:06.120 that's not true. But second so what like it's like 0:08:06.160 --> 0:08:08.640 the default is that everything is supposed to be fine, 0:08:08.680 --> 0:08:11.440 Like you're not supposed to get like a cookie. You 0:08:11.520 --> 0:08:16.440 do your job, so playing basketball or doing some fucking 0:08:16.480 --> 0:08:20.440 breakdance moves exactly, sharing ice cream cone, Great job, you 0:08:20.480 --> 0:08:23.200 did your job, so it'll do. I feel like if 0:08:23.280 --> 0:08:25.840 if cops want to be like first of all, if 0:08:25.880 --> 0:08:28.360 they want to have like an imprint in the community, 0:08:29.000 --> 0:08:32.880 then the impression should either be we don't notice you, 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:35.199 or it's positive you know what I'm saying. But like 0:08:35.960 --> 0:08:39.080 the fact that it's in so many places to so 0:08:39.200 --> 0:08:43.080 many people, it's like a negative force or something that 0:08:43.120 --> 0:08:46.240 people think badly of. I mean, it's kind of an 0:08:46.280 --> 0:08:52.240 important fucking job, you know. So it's like yeah, straight up, 0:08:52.360 --> 0:08:55.400 like I mean the ones that I don't know, it's 0:08:55.440 --> 0:09:00.360 just there should be a zero tolerance from within a 0:09:00.400 --> 0:09:04.280 good cop calling a bad cop out or good good 0:09:04.280 --> 0:09:08.079 police officers like actively like calling out like you know, 0:09:08.520 --> 0:09:12.880 the stuff that's wrong with their system goes a long 0:09:12.960 --> 0:09:16.200 way in like people's perception of like all cops. Because 0:09:16.240 --> 0:09:19.120 like right now, I can tell you this ship seems 0:09:19.160 --> 0:09:21.560 like it's a gang, Like people are good, like they're 0:09:21.559 --> 0:09:23.959 out for each other. You know what I'm saying that 0:09:24.240 --> 0:09:28.400 you know, no oversight, like it's us versus them, and 0:09:28.440 --> 0:09:31.640 it just doesn't. It feels like a foreign occupying power. 0:09:32.000 --> 0:09:35.120 I mean, when they're using military forces against us, they're 0:09:35.160 --> 0:09:38.679 using tactics that aren't even allowed in warfare. They are 0:09:38.679 --> 0:09:42.800 an occupying force in our communities. And I, as an abolitionist, 0:09:42.880 --> 0:09:47.680 fully believed that our communities are capable of policing themselves. 0:09:47.720 --> 0:09:49.240 If you look at what the Black Panthers said in 0:09:49.240 --> 0:09:53.320 the Lowlands of Oakland back in their height of power, 0:09:54.360 --> 0:09:57.440 chasing the cops out of their community and patrolling them 0:09:57.480 --> 0:10:01.800 themselves and holding people accountable themselves for wrongdoing, but also 0:10:01.920 --> 0:10:05.520 resourcing folks, giving out food and doing education and making 0:10:05.520 --> 0:10:08.200 sure everyone has everything they need so they're not robbing 0:10:08.200 --> 0:10:11.160 a liquor store or breaking into a car, and they're 0:10:11.200 --> 0:10:13.240 not under so much to rest that they end up 0:10:13.320 --> 0:10:17.400 hitting their spouse or yelling at their kids, or having 0:10:17.440 --> 0:10:19.800 a mental breakdown and running into the street naked with 0:10:19.840 --> 0:10:23.040 a knife. You know, when our community is a resourced 0:10:23.960 --> 0:10:26.040 I truly believe that we don't need them at all, 0:10:26.120 --> 0:10:30.600 whether they're good people who have to do a bad job. Um, 0:10:30.640 --> 0:10:36.800 the whole system is inextricably linked to white supremacy, and 0:10:37.040 --> 0:10:40.880 we can build the world, I believe without it, and 0:10:41.720 --> 0:10:44.800 I have. I wasn't as open about these views when 0:10:44.840 --> 0:10:49.440 I first got elected around a platform of criminal justice reform, 0:10:49.520 --> 0:10:56.720 of strengthening their relationships between the community and our law enforcement. UM. 0:10:56.760 --> 0:10:59.160 And then I was sworn in on the autobiography of 0:10:59.200 --> 0:11:01.240 Malcolm X, which I did not believe was going to 0:11:01.240 --> 0:11:03.880 be a big deal, but apparently it was. But in 0:11:03.960 --> 0:11:05.800 the aftermath of that, I was getting a lot of 0:11:05.840 --> 0:11:09.959 death threats from white supremacists from across the country. UM. 0:11:10.000 --> 0:11:13.480 I was warned, you know, not to pick up unexpected 0:11:13.480 --> 0:11:17.080 packages off my porch in case they were bombs. UM. 0:11:17.120 --> 0:11:20.640 I was being threatened with rape and lynching. And I 0:11:20.679 --> 0:11:26.880 was at a really hard crossroads where though I then 0:11:27.120 --> 0:11:31.440 even held abolitionist views, you know that I sort of 0:11:31.760 --> 0:11:34.640 like dressed in language that was easier for people to 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:39.600 understand regarding police reform. UM, I didn't know who I 0:11:39.640 --> 0:11:40.760 was going to have to who I was going to 0:11:40.840 --> 0:11:43.240 be able to call if ship went down, Well, the 0:11:43.320 --> 0:11:47.280 cops still come. If some if somebody shows up at 0:11:47.320 --> 0:11:50.680 my house with an a K forty seven. UM. And 0:11:50.960 --> 0:11:54.839 the fact that in this current day, we don't have 0:11:55.120 --> 0:11:59.679 the infrastructure socially in place to protect ourselves as a community, 0:12:00.320 --> 0:12:02.319 and right now the default is that you have to 0:12:02.360 --> 0:12:05.079 call the cops because we don't have a world yet 0:12:05.120 --> 0:12:08.480 where we're ready to defend ourselves. And so that's a 0:12:08.480 --> 0:12:10.920 little bit about what my recent experiences have been around 0:12:11.000 --> 0:12:13.080 the police. I used to always smile away at them 0:12:13.080 --> 0:12:15.320 when they drive by, because I knew they knew who 0:12:15.320 --> 0:12:18.360 I was, and I felt like, I gotta, you know, 0:12:18.600 --> 0:12:20.760 play nice so that they'll come to my house if 0:12:20.800 --> 0:12:24.160 somebody sets it on fire. But recently I realized that, 0:12:24.200 --> 0:12:26.480 you know, it's a job like any other job. It's 0:12:26.480 --> 0:12:27.920 a dangerous job, but it's not one of the most 0:12:27.960 --> 0:12:31.680 dangerous professions of the country. UM. I believe sanitation workers 0:12:31.760 --> 0:12:34.400 get hurt or killed in the line of duty more 0:12:34.480 --> 0:12:38.720 often than police officers do. UM. And so this deference 0:12:38.760 --> 0:12:44.000 to them that we should honor them and UM have 0:12:44.320 --> 0:12:48.280 and like upholding, like uphold their you know, uphold them up, 0:12:48.280 --> 0:12:50.200 will lift them because of the work that they do. 0:12:50.440 --> 0:12:53.960 It is something that I've begun to re Jacks because um, 0:12:54.320 --> 0:12:57.240 you get posing for selfies with your ice cream cone, 0:12:57.280 --> 0:13:00.360 with the little black teenager shooting hoops with kids on 0:13:00.360 --> 0:13:02.960 the block, Like, that's just what your job is, and 0:13:03.000 --> 0:13:05.400 I'm not here to a plot it. The attitude that 0:13:05.559 --> 0:13:07.240 that I feel like a lot of them have with 0:13:07.280 --> 0:13:09.439 it is like it's just a job, and it's like, oh, 0:13:09.440 --> 0:13:11.640 you're supposed to like respect me and give me difference 0:13:11.720 --> 0:13:14.840 because I have this job, And it's like, but you 0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:17.880 don't even necessarily live up to it like that, you 0:13:17.880 --> 0:13:20.920 know what I'm saying, Like how many how many YouTube 0:13:21.000 --> 0:13:23.960 videos can you go on and watch if cops like 0:13:24.040 --> 0:13:27.840 breaking the law? You know, they're like all over the place, Like, 0:13:28.120 --> 0:13:31.160 you know, just just given given the situation that we're 0:13:31.160 --> 0:13:34.360 in right now, we're in a situation where the country 0:13:34.440 --> 0:13:40.440 is in upheaval over police brutality. So what's what is 0:13:40.880 --> 0:13:46.120 the police solution for that police brutality like on a 0:13:46.160 --> 0:13:49.000 wide national scale. Yeah, so let's turn to start talking 0:13:49.000 --> 0:13:50.679 a little bit about what we're seeing in the media 0:13:50.760 --> 0:13:55.959 right now. For sure, we're recording this on a blackout Wednesday. 0:13:56.080 --> 0:14:02.839 It's Tuesday, babe, core teen quarantine. What our day is? Anyone? 0:14:04.360 --> 0:14:08.280 So I find it very interesting, Um, you know, both 0:14:08.400 --> 0:14:11.439 having watched what has been happening in the media regarding 0:14:11.559 --> 0:14:15.840 the upheaval across the country over the last week, and 0:14:15.840 --> 0:14:18.559 then having a direct experience with it as an organizer 0:14:18.600 --> 0:14:22.280 of a march here in our city over the weekend. Um, 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:27.720 how the media narrative UH obscures blame for the types 0:14:27.760 --> 0:14:32.920 of violence that happened UH in these protests. So let's take, 0:14:32.960 --> 0:14:39.520 for example, you hear about protesters are arrested, protesters are injured, 0:14:39.600 --> 0:14:44.760 protesters are killed. As a linguist, when I read something 0:14:44.840 --> 0:14:48.680 like that, immediately identify the fact that it is composed 0:14:48.720 --> 0:14:51.840 in the passive voice. The person who is being acted 0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:55.840 upon comes first in the sentence, and the agent of 0:14:55.880 --> 0:14:59.760 the action is obscured. So who is arresting the protesters, 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:04.000 who is entering the protesters? Who is doing the violence 0:15:04.080 --> 0:15:08.560 upon other people? When stories get broken into, when cars 0:15:08.600 --> 0:15:13.280 gets set on fire, Um, they want to blame us, 0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:16.200 But when we get hurt, it's not as clear in 0:15:16.240 --> 0:15:23.200 the way that these things are construed, what the where 0:15:23.240 --> 0:15:26.160 the blame should be assigned. And I think that you know, 0:15:26.240 --> 0:15:29.440 it comes from a long line of I mean journalistic 0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:33.240 practices in terms of just oh, something happened without identifying 0:15:33.280 --> 0:15:36.120 who did what to home. But you know, it also 0:15:36.160 --> 0:15:39.880 goes into these like these narratives we see of like um, 0:15:39.960 --> 0:15:44.640 this this this discourse of uh support the police, you know, 0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:50.800 uh smiling and you know, sharing photos of them doing 0:15:50.840 --> 0:15:53.400 good work in the community as a way to perpetuate 0:15:53.440 --> 0:15:57.440 that narrative. I think all these things work in tandem. 0:15:57.440 --> 0:16:03.160 Two help protect us system that is fundamentally broken. And 0:16:04.240 --> 0:16:06.680 I understand when I look at that, when I when 0:16:06.680 --> 0:16:10.480 I look at um images of indiscriminate violence, you know, 0:16:10.560 --> 0:16:15.560 against protesters are towards private property. Um, when I see 0:16:15.600 --> 0:16:21.239 headlines like that, I understand how folks can be confused 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:24.720 about who is in the wrong here because the media 0:16:24.840 --> 0:16:28.640 is confusing people. I just feel like some of it 0:16:28.720 --> 0:16:30.680 kind of comes down to the state and what the 0:16:30.760 --> 0:16:34.200 purpose of the police is. Its purpose has always been 0:16:34.320 --> 0:16:38.920 like to protect property and rich people, and it's never 0:16:38.960 --> 0:16:43.400 really been to serve the community. To us, there's just 0:16:43.520 --> 0:16:46.240 never been a point where it's like the police are 0:16:46.280 --> 0:16:49.600 like for the people and not for those in power. 0:16:50.400 --> 0:16:52.920 And so you're saying that the same way that like 0:16:53.000 --> 0:16:57.240 what communism has never worked. People who say policing has 0:16:57.280 --> 0:17:00.240 never worked, have never seen policing operate the way that 0:17:00.280 --> 0:17:02.600 it is supposed to. I wouldn't even say the way 0:17:02.600 --> 0:17:04.840 that it's supposed to, because how is it supposed to work? 0:17:06.200 --> 0:17:08.240 Just the whole concept of it is just And that's 0:17:08.280 --> 0:17:10.440 my question too, And that's why I'm an abolitionist, because 0:17:10.440 --> 0:17:12.680 I'm like, how is it supposed to work? I'm understand 0:17:12.760 --> 0:17:15.879 how mental health like resources are supposed to work for 0:17:15.920 --> 0:17:19.199 people having crises, and understand how social work is supposed 0:17:19.240 --> 0:17:21.800 to work for people that need access to resources. I 0:17:21.840 --> 0:17:25.440 understand how some restorative justice works. It's very challenging even 0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:28.399 for my imagination when I'm post with questions about abolition 0:17:28.760 --> 0:17:30.680 or people like, well, what would you do in this situation, 0:17:31.359 --> 0:17:33.639 and it's like, I don't know, but all I know 0:17:33.760 --> 0:17:35.359 is what we're doing right now is not working, and 0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:39.119 I'm committed to finding solutions that are different. So I 0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:41.720 feel you, Yeah, I know, I tell you feel you. 0:17:43.040 --> 0:17:48.200 The way that police forces go after street crime, what 0:17:48.359 --> 0:17:51.040 if that was reversed to go after white collar crime, 0:17:51.720 --> 0:18:06.480 I might not feel too bad about that. I think 0:18:06.480 --> 0:18:10.800 it's really interesting to contrast people's reactions to seeing like 0:18:10.880 --> 0:18:14.600 an auto zone get burned down. Or um a cop 0:18:14.800 --> 0:18:19.880 pelted with the brick, um. And then uh, my actual 0:18:19.920 --> 0:18:24.600 experience of organizing and leading march here and Hapthens over 0:18:24.640 --> 0:18:30.120 the weekend. You tell us about that. Yeah, so, Um, 0:18:30.119 --> 0:18:34.760 over the weekend, I, you know, as an elected official called, 0:18:35.240 --> 0:18:37.520 in response to what I've been seeing across the country, 0:18:37.960 --> 0:18:41.960 called for a ten year plan to start being developed 0:18:41.960 --> 0:18:46.840 here locally that would transition of our police officer positions 0:18:47.160 --> 0:18:51.200 to social workers, mental health professional professionals, and restorative justice 0:18:51.200 --> 0:18:55.399 practitioners over the next ten years. And in response to 0:18:55.520 --> 0:18:58.479 that and some other things going on, UM, one of 0:18:58.480 --> 0:19:02.080 my fellow you know, black queer fem organizers in town 0:19:02.200 --> 0:19:05.880 was like, Yo, let's have a rally here in Athens, 0:19:05.920 --> 0:19:08.480 and let's like center it on those demands, something concrete 0:19:08.520 --> 0:19:12.080 to channel people's anger into in this moment. So they 0:19:12.080 --> 0:19:16.680 started organizing up a rally. UM. I was somewhat involved, 0:19:16.720 --> 0:19:18.879 you know, in the like the group thread, trying to 0:19:18.960 --> 0:19:23.520 keep tabs on the developments. And then you know, we 0:19:24.160 --> 0:19:25.800 let people know we're gonna have a march for a 0:19:25.800 --> 0:19:28.320 while without cops. Told to meet us on the courthouse 0:19:28.320 --> 0:19:32.359 steps at five pm. Um, So I show up and 0:19:32.400 --> 0:19:38.040 there's about maybe five people there and I'm merely start 0:19:38.080 --> 0:19:41.199 yelling in my megaphone, you know, Black lives matter, gaining 0:19:41.240 --> 0:19:44.080 them in chance. I take a moment to speaking to 0:19:44.119 --> 0:19:47.199 the megaphone, what my my plan is, what my idea is, 0:19:47.920 --> 0:19:52.560 and um, folks are you know, calling out with their support, 0:19:53.080 --> 0:19:54.800 and we begin to march. We begin to march to 0:19:54.880 --> 0:20:00.600 the streets, um, continuing to chant, we take over the street. Uh. 0:20:00.600 --> 0:20:04.000 We marched through prominent areas of downtown, meet up with 0:20:04.040 --> 0:20:07.560 other folks who were gathered, and they joined us. And 0:20:07.600 --> 0:20:10.119 what was beautiful was that I was filled with so 0:20:10.240 --> 0:20:15.879 much fear and terror and anxiety and um, almost a 0:20:15.920 --> 0:20:20.000 sense of hopelessness going into the scenario, having seen the 0:20:20.040 --> 0:20:23.600 scenes of violence on the on the news throughout the 0:20:23.640 --> 0:20:27.040 past week, and knowing that we were we were inviting 0:20:27.040 --> 0:20:29.960 that on ourselves. We couldn't control if people came to 0:20:30.040 --> 0:20:33.880 break into store windows. Business owners online were accusing me, 0:20:33.960 --> 0:20:39.119 if anything happens today, it's it's your fault. Um. I 0:20:39.119 --> 0:20:41.639 couldn't control if innocent people who would come there to 0:20:41.680 --> 0:20:45.520 stand in solidarity with black people across this country. Um, 0:20:45.560 --> 0:20:47.560 if they got tear gas that day, if they got 0:20:47.640 --> 0:20:50.840 hit with rubber bullets, that day, and so I was shaking, 0:20:50.840 --> 0:20:53.840 I couldn't eat, I couldn't sleep. Um, but I stood 0:20:53.880 --> 0:20:56.680 up because I felt like it was my duty for oh, 0:20:56.840 --> 0:21:00.159 you know, people of color, black people, particular of the 0:21:00.320 --> 0:21:02.800 black women and black queer folks, to take the lead 0:21:02.840 --> 0:21:06.240 in situations like this, you know, as the most marginalized people, 0:21:06.880 --> 0:21:12.040 to make the demands and be the face of change. 0:21:12.240 --> 0:21:15.879 So I'm out there at one point of standing up 0:21:15.880 --> 0:21:20.560 on a Confederate monument um, and the crowd is chanting, 0:21:21.320 --> 0:21:26.000 say his name, which one, Say her name? Which one? 0:21:26.520 --> 0:21:28.360 At which point I just started. I just broke down 0:21:28.359 --> 0:21:32.560 and started sobbing um with the feet, my feet planted 0:21:32.600 --> 0:21:39.000 on this relic of white supremacy, and thousands of people 0:21:39.160 --> 0:21:43.159 spread out all through the streets in front of me. Um. 0:21:43.280 --> 0:21:46.000 And but it was beautiful because we we didn't break 0:21:46.000 --> 0:21:48.240 into any stores. We weren't there to do damage or 0:21:48.280 --> 0:21:50.960 due violence. The white people there were here to hear 0:21:51.000 --> 0:21:55.240 the stories too, of you know, black people in Athens, 0:21:55.480 --> 0:22:00.359 the stories of oppression, of marginalization, of prejudice. There shoudn't 0:22:00.359 --> 0:22:04.600 for what a better world could be. And um, it 0:22:04.640 --> 0:22:08.199 was a truly beautiful thing. But as night fell and 0:22:08.280 --> 0:22:13.040 the crowd dispersed and several hundreds of people stayed behind, 0:22:13.600 --> 0:22:18.520 and the National Guard came into town Um. They and 0:22:18.560 --> 0:22:22.720 the and the folks remaining peacefully occupied the main plaza 0:22:22.760 --> 0:22:29.160 in downtown with tents, with their hands up, chanting UM, 0:22:29.200 --> 0:22:32.080 just building cambaraderie with one another, talking to one another. 0:22:32.359 --> 0:22:35.080 They were slowly boxed in by the National Guard. A 0:22:35.160 --> 0:22:38.200 drone flow overhead telling them to disperse. Kurfey was put 0:22:38.200 --> 0:22:41.800 in place retroactively UM telling them that they was illegal 0:22:41.840 --> 0:22:44.960 for them to be downtown UM, and no one knew 0:22:45.080 --> 0:22:47.400 until an hour after it was too late to leave, 0:22:47.520 --> 0:22:51.600 and they were slowly being cornered by tanks and with 0:22:51.640 --> 0:22:54.240 their hands up and with their arms locked in solidarity 0:22:54.240 --> 0:22:57.399 with one another. They were tear gassed and hit with 0:22:57.480 --> 0:23:01.879 rubber rubber bullets and arrested. And some of the black 0:23:01.920 --> 0:23:05.200 women who who organized the protests where when they got 0:23:05.240 --> 0:23:08.240 to the county jail, separated from the rest of the 0:23:08.280 --> 0:23:11.320 group in what we believe to be an active retaliation 0:23:11.359 --> 0:23:14.959 in targeting for their involvement in bringing those folks together. 0:23:15.640 --> 0:23:19.480 And so I saw firsthand how folks coming together to 0:23:19.840 --> 0:23:24.760 or to demonstrate as is their right, non violently are 0:23:24.880 --> 0:23:31.040 met with violence. I witnessed firsthand how the armed forces, 0:23:31.160 --> 0:23:35.280 the arms of the police state, are the agitators. And 0:23:35.320 --> 0:23:38.000 I worked this firsthand as well, how powerful it is 0:23:38.480 --> 0:23:43.439 when we come together, nonetheless, because we developed concrete demands 0:23:43.440 --> 0:23:45.720 for what needs to happen next, and we educated people 0:23:45.760 --> 0:23:48.720 about what the world could look like. And we brought 0:23:48.800 --> 0:23:52.040 the mayor up who stood beside me on the Confederate Monument, 0:23:52.520 --> 0:23:55.320 and we made our demands to him, and we made 0:23:55.440 --> 0:23:59.080 very clear that we are committed to the struggle. And 0:23:59.119 --> 0:24:03.119 so um, I just I think it's really important for 0:24:03.160 --> 0:24:06.040 folks that aren't in the struggle, who aren't out there 0:24:06.040 --> 0:24:08.080 in the streets, to be very cautious of what you're 0:24:08.080 --> 0:24:10.760 seeing and hearing in the media, the way the headlines 0:24:10.800 --> 0:24:15.479 are written, the accounts that they are foregrounding when they 0:24:15.480 --> 0:24:19.000 describe what's happening, Because when you're there yourself, you see 0:24:19.040 --> 0:24:22.680