1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,640 Speaker 1: You're listening waiting on reparations of production of I Heart Radio. 2 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:07,200 Speaker 1: They heard the shot, but I never had the chance 3 00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:10,000 Speaker 1: to see the smoking gun, T shirts. Soaking blood is 4 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: leaking up over the linoleum, holding onto the bottle. Still. 5 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 1: They could have called the hospital, but they learned the 6 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:19,760 Speaker 1: cops convinced of images of Nigga kids as hostile kids. 7 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:22,239 Speaker 1: This nation hates us and wants us to hate us too. 8 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:25,759 Speaker 1: It's advantageous when niggas hate Asians, and Asians a niggas. 9 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 1: So when a shot keep it faving robbery is an 10 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 1: innocent teenager dump. The system isn't broken, No, it's fully operational. 11 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:34,879 Speaker 1: We watched it work this way so well since way 12 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:38,120 Speaker 1: before that faithful day in April nine two, when we 13 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 1: riot looted, when we raised help, we but finally through 14 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:42,839 Speaker 1: being escape goats for the neighborhoods, you can find us too, 15 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:44,839 Speaker 1: to the grinding lops you assigned us to, with your 16 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 1: griming schools and your crack rocks and your bad cops 17 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 1: and these white jerseys that blindly choose complicity. Who find 18 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:53,159 Speaker 1: shootings in this city so commonplace to sign faiths like 19 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 1: eight balls so flippantly for centuries we stayed calm, but 20 00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:58,639 Speaker 1: a new day is done and you best believe at 21 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:03,320 Speaker 1: reeks and napalm. I wrote that verse for Latasha Harlan's, 22 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:05,480 Speaker 1: a fifteen year old girl who was shot in the 23 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 1: back of the head by a Korean grocery store owner 24 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:12,319 Speaker 1: in Los Angeles. We talked a lot about Rodney King, 25 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 1: but Latasha Harland's death too, was a catalyst for the 26 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 1: l a riots that followed in the subsequent year. We 27 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:36,760 Speaker 1: haven't seen violence like that since until now. A uh yeah, yeah, 28 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 1: my name's Dope Knife. What's up? I'm Lingua franca and 29 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 1: waiting on RepA so um. When we started this podcast, 30 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 1: the world and it's a regular state, was just fucked up, 31 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 1: just regular fund up, just regular fucked up. And then 32 00:01:56,160 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 1: fucking plague hit COVID and we went on lockdown. That 33 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 1: we've been on lockdown for twelve weeks now, and the 34 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: whole world has changed. The whole world has changed. Then 35 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:10,800 Speaker 1: last week George Floyd was murdered at the hands of 36 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:13,960 Speaker 1: for Minneapolis p D. And in the wake of it, 37 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:19,079 Speaker 1: we start seeing national protests, civil unrest the likes of 38 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:21,720 Speaker 1: which the country hasn't seen in the generations our whole 39 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:23,520 Speaker 1: plan to launch this show kind of had to go 40 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 1: out the window, and we hadn't had to reassess what 41 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 1: we're gonna do. Because as black folks that are politically 42 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 1: committed to struggle and aware and following not only what's 43 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 1: happening now, but following what has been going on in 44 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:41,400 Speaker 1: this country for decades and following it very closely in 45 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:44,959 Speaker 1: recent years. Uh, we feel it's important for us to 46 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:49,680 Speaker 1: speak out right now and to articulate what our experiences 47 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:51,360 Speaker 1: have been as well as what our vision is for 48 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 1: what's coming next. So this isn't gonna be like our 49 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 1: usual episode waiting on reparations that you guys are gonna hear. 50 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 1: We're gonna kinda just talk from the heart about how 51 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 1: we feel about what's going on. So welcome to it. 52 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:10,160 Speaker 1: My name's Dope Knife. I'm a rapper producer from Savannah, 53 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 1: g A. Well, technically I'm not from anywhere, because I 54 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 1: grew up overseas. My mother's Liberian, my father's American. He 55 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:20,079 Speaker 1: used to work for the State Department, and I grew 56 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 1: up overseas. But um, I moved to the States to 57 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:28,520 Speaker 1: go to college and I've been here since and uh, 58 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 1: I'm an independent musician. My name is Leewoa Franca a 59 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 1: k a. Mariah Parker Um. In two thousand eighteen, I 60 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 1: was elected to the Athens Clark County Commission, where I 61 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:42,280 Speaker 1: have now served for two years on an abolitionist agenda 62 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 1: and a pro worker, pro black um leftist agenda. I'm 63 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 1: also hip hop artist, and I'm a linguist. Actually, I 64 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 1: have a master's in linguistics and I'm getting my PhD 65 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 1: Language and Literacy education at the University of Georgia. So 66 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 1: I look at this for the LNDIP hip up from 67 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 1: the lens of local policy, from the lens of linguistics 68 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 1: and the lens of education. And so we're gonna have 69 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 1: another episode coming out soon kind of explaining more about 70 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 1: who we are and what this podcast has about, as 71 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 1: well as other episodes about the labor movement, about prison abolition, 72 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 1: about sex work, about all sorts of topics that tie 73 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 1: hip hop and politics together. But today we're gonna just 74 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:23,840 Speaker 1: talk from the heart about what's happening in this country, 75 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:26,479 Speaker 1: what our experiences have been, and where we see things 76 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:34,280 Speaker 1: going from here. Talk to me about your relationship with 77 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:39,479 Speaker 1: the police. Well, I guess it's a not unsimilar to 78 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 1: that of a lot of other black males. It hasn't 79 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:48,800 Speaker 1: been too positive of relationship. It's at this point it's 80 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:51,600 Speaker 1: almost like cliche. You know, I've never had a cop 81 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 1: personally smile at me, you know what I mean. When 82 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 1: I was around twenty one, I was walking home from 83 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 1: work and was like walking in the middle of the street, 84 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:04,160 Speaker 1: so not really on the sidewalk, and it was like 85 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:06,600 Speaker 1: maybe like eleven o'clock at night. I got stopped by 86 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 1: two cops and they were asking me why I was 87 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 1: walking so close to the cars that were on the road. 88 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 1: So I was explaining to them, It's like, oh, well, 89 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:18,839 Speaker 1: you know, I'm just walking home. I can get on 90 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 1: the sidewalk if you want. They roughed me up and 91 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 1: you know, I mean got me on the ground. They're 92 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:30,839 Speaker 1: like calling me, I'll sorts of names and ship and uh. 93 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:40,040 Speaker 1: It was it's like I told that story like mad times, 94 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:46,040 Speaker 1: but for whatever reason, they just like it feels a little, 95 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:48,760 Speaker 1: it feels different telling it now was hitting me too, 96 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:54,040 Speaker 1: but um, it's just like the main thing I took 97 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 1: away from it is just like the feeling of like 98 00:05:56,520 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 1: like powerlessness, you know, what can you do? And especially 99 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:01,920 Speaker 1: in that situation where it's just like me alone and 100 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:05,480 Speaker 1: it's like dark, and it's like literally anything could happen. 101 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:10,120 Speaker 1: I mean, this was way before tray Von and you know, 102 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 1: things like that. But again, at the same time, it's 103 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:18,600 Speaker 1: not like situations weren't known. It wasn't like this wasn't happening. 104 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:22,040 Speaker 1: It was definitely before it was before the like proliferation 105 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:24,720 Speaker 1: of the cell phone camp you know what I'm saying. 106 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:27,359 Speaker 1: So it was something I could definitely tell like my homies, 107 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:31,120 Speaker 1: tell my boys, tell my my mom, I pops, you 108 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:33,840 Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, like, and it was like, oh man, fun, sorry, 109 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:36,839 Speaker 1: you know, but it wasn't necessarily something that it was 110 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:40,719 Speaker 1: just like, Okay, well everybody knows that this is happening. 111 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 1: Welcome to the bottom of the barrel, cops U J walking, 112 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:48,159 Speaker 1: put the glock to your apparel, lock you in the 113 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:50,360 Speaker 1: box for all the pot that's in your marrow, and 114 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 1: even taking walks. Make you a talking for in there. Bro. 115 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:55,039 Speaker 1: I dare you to come let these crackers put you 116 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:57,360 Speaker 1: on a curfew. You could keep it real and let 117 00:06:57,360 --> 00:06:59,839 Speaker 1: the silly niggas mrk you. I'll tell you what the deal. 118 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:02,840 Speaker 1: We really ain't got no virtue. Survival requires work, and 119 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:05,599 Speaker 1: nobody really deserves you. When life is throwing them courage 120 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 1: you strike probably solve it all of all the world's 121 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 1: unite people worth the sight. I ain't got ship and 122 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 1: nigger my purses tight. Heard it right, post a picture 123 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 1: made the frame of perfect life. Nothing's worse than hype. 124 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 1: We can all conserve the worst of slights. Financial rigor 125 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 1: mortis got your throwing fits. Now you're ships. The story 126 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 1: that you was talking slick. Now you just sitping. Poor 127 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:24,560 Speaker 1: Ward's trying to penny pinch, of course, which can make 128 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 1: you sick of poor ship, instead of sitting gorgeous creditors 129 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 1: got picks and torches. This gap is massive and there's 130 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 1: nothing to fill. Since that cop called me a fag 131 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:34,960 Speaker 1: and put a gun in my grill, I'm bugging for real. 132 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 1: Prepped ourselves for forty five to touch down. Now we 133 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 1: want to act mad. I don't give a funk now. 134 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 1: I wrote that ship February two thousand and seventeen. You 135 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:54,680 Speaker 1: know when you always hear about when people talk about 136 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 1: how oh will you only hear the bad things about 137 00:07:57,600 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 1: cops and you never hear the good things about cops 138 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:02,440 Speaker 1: And stuff like that, and it's like, first of all, 139 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:06,120 Speaker 1: that's not true. But second so what like it's like 140 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 1: the default is that everything is supposed to be fine, 141 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 1: Like you're not supposed to get like a cookie. You 142 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 1: do your job, so playing basketball or doing some fucking 143 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 1: breakdance moves exactly, sharing ice cream cone, Great job, you 144 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 1: did your job, so it'll do. I feel like if 145 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 1: if cops want to be like first of all, if 146 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 1: they want to have like an imprint in the community, 147 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 1: then the impression should either be we don't notice you, 148 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:35,199 Speaker 1: or it's positive you know what I'm saying. But like 149 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:39,080 Speaker 1: the fact that it's in so many places to so 150 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:43,080 Speaker 1: many people, it's like a negative force or something that 151 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:46,240 Speaker 1: people think badly of. I mean, it's kind of an 152 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 1: important fucking job, you know. So it's like yeah, straight up, 153 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 1: like I mean the ones that I don't know, it's 154 00:08:55,440 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 1: just there should be a zero tolerance from within a 155 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 1: good cop calling a bad cop out or good good 156 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:08,079 Speaker 1: police officers like actively like calling out like you know, 157 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:12,880 Speaker 1: the stuff that's wrong with their system goes a long 158 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:16,200 Speaker 1: way in like people's perception of like all cops. Because 159 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:19,120 Speaker 1: like right now, I can tell you this ship seems 160 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:21,560 Speaker 1: like it's a gang, Like people are good, like they're 161 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:23,959 Speaker 1: out for each other. You know what I'm saying that 162 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 1: you know, no oversight, like it's us versus them, and 163 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 1: it just doesn't. It feels like a foreign occupying power. 164 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 1: I mean, when they're using military forces against us, they're 165 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:38,679 Speaker 1: using tactics that aren't even allowed in warfare. They are 166 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:42,800 Speaker 1: an occupying force in our communities. And I, as an abolitionist, 167 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:47,680 Speaker 1: fully believed that our communities are capable of policing themselves. 168 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 1: If you look at what the Black Panthers said in 169 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:53,320 Speaker 1: the Lowlands of Oakland back in their height of power, 170 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:57,440 Speaker 1: chasing the cops out of their community and patrolling them 171 00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 1: themselves and holding people accountable themselves for wrongdoing, but also 172 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:05,520 Speaker 1: resourcing folks, giving out food and doing education and making 173 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:08,200 Speaker 1: sure everyone has everything they need so they're not robbing 174 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 1: a liquor store or breaking into a car, and they're 175 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:13,240 Speaker 1: not under so much to rest that they end up 176 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 1: hitting their spouse or yelling at their kids, or having 177 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 1: a mental breakdown and running into the street naked with 178 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 1: a knife. You know, when our community is a resourced 179 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 1: I truly believe that we don't need them at all, 180 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:30,600 Speaker 1: whether they're good people who have to do a bad job. Um, 181 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 1: the whole system is inextricably linked to white supremacy, and 182 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 1: we can build the world, I believe without it, and 183 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:44,800 Speaker 1: I have. I wasn't as open about these views when 184 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:49,440 Speaker 1: I first got elected around a platform of criminal justice reform, 185 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:56,720 Speaker 1: of strengthening their relationships between the community and our law enforcement. UM. 186 00:10:56,760 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 1: And then I was sworn in on the autobiography of 187 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 1: Malcolm X, which I did not believe was going to 188 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:03,880 Speaker 1: be a big deal, but apparently it was. But in 189 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 1: the aftermath of that, I was getting a lot of 190 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:09,959 Speaker 1: death threats from white supremacists from across the country. UM. 191 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:13,480 Speaker 1: I was warned, you know, not to pick up unexpected 192 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:17,080 Speaker 1: packages off my porch in case they were bombs. UM. 193 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 1: I was being threatened with rape and lynching. And I 194 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 1: was at a really hard crossroads where though I then 195 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:31,440 Speaker 1: even held abolitionist views, you know that I sort of 196 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:34,640 Speaker 1: like dressed in language that was easier for people to 197 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:39,600 Speaker 1: understand regarding police reform. UM, I didn't know who I 198 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:40,760 Speaker 1: was going to have to who I was going to 199 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:43,240 Speaker 1: be able to call if ship went down, Well, the 200 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:47,280 Speaker 1: cops still come. If some if somebody shows up at 201 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:50,680 Speaker 1: my house with an a K forty seven. UM. And 202 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:54,839 Speaker 1: the fact that in this current day, we don't have 203 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:59,679 Speaker 1: the infrastructure socially in place to protect ourselves as a community, 204 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:02,319 Speaker 1: and right now the default is that you have to 205 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:05,079 Speaker 1: call the cops because we don't have a world yet 206 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:08,480 Speaker 1: where we're ready to defend ourselves. And so that's a 207 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:10,920 Speaker 1: little bit about what my recent experiences have been around 208 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:13,080 Speaker 1: the police. I used to always smile away at them 209 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:15,320 Speaker 1: when they drive by, because I knew they knew who 210 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:18,360 Speaker 1: I was, and I felt like, I gotta, you know, 211 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 1: play nice so that they'll come to my house if 212 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 1: somebody sets it on fire. But recently I realized that, 213 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:26,480 Speaker 1: you know, it's a job like any other job. It's 214 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 1: a dangerous job, but it's not one of the most 215 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:31,680 Speaker 1: dangerous professions of the country. UM. I believe sanitation workers 216 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 1: get hurt or killed in the line of duty more 217 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:38,720 Speaker 1: often than police officers do. UM. And so this deference 218 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:44,000 Speaker 1: to them that we should honor them and UM have 219 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:48,280 Speaker 1: and like upholding, like uphold their you know, uphold them up, 220 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:50,200 Speaker 1: will lift them because of the work that they do. 221 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:53,960 Speaker 1: It is something that I've begun to re Jacks because um, 222 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 1: you get posing for selfies with your ice cream cone, 223 00:12:57,280 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 1: with the little black teenager shooting hoops with kids on 224 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:02,960 Speaker 1: the block, Like, that's just what your job is, and 225 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:05,400 Speaker 1: I'm not here to a plot it. The attitude that 226 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 1: that I feel like a lot of them have with 227 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:09,439 Speaker 1: it is like it's just a job, and it's like, oh, 228 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 1: you're supposed to like respect me and give me difference 229 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:14,840 Speaker 1: because I have this job, And it's like, but you 230 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:17,880 Speaker 1: don't even necessarily live up to it like that, you 231 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:20,920 Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, Like how many how many YouTube 232 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:23,960 Speaker 1: videos can you go on and watch if cops like 233 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:27,840 Speaker 1: breaking the law? You know, they're like all over the place, Like, 234 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 1: you know, just just given given the situation that we're 235 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:34,360 Speaker 1: in right now, we're in a situation where the country 236 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:40,440 Speaker 1: is in upheaval over police brutality. So what's what is 237 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 1: the police solution for that police brutality like on a 238 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 1: wide national scale. Yeah, so let's turn to start talking 239 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:50,679 Speaker 1: a little bit about what we're seeing in the media 240 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:55,959 Speaker 1: right now. For sure, we're recording this on a blackout Wednesday. 241 00:13:56,080 --> 00:14:02,839 Speaker 1: It's Tuesday, babe, core teen quarantine. What our day is? Anyone? 242 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 1: So I find it very interesting, Um, you know, both 243 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:11,439 Speaker 1: having watched what has been happening in the media regarding 244 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:15,840 Speaker 1: the upheaval across the country over the last week, and 245 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:18,559 Speaker 1: then having a direct experience with it as an organizer 246 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:22,280 Speaker 1: of a march here in our city over the weekend. Um, 247 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:27,720 Speaker 1: how the media narrative UH obscures blame for the types 248 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:32,920 Speaker 1: of violence that happened UH in these protests. So let's take, 249 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 1: for example, you hear about protesters are arrested, protesters are injured, 250 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 1: protesters are killed. As a linguist, when I read something 251 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:48,680 Speaker 1: like that, immediately identify the fact that it is composed 252 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:51,840 Speaker 1: in the passive voice. The person who is being acted 253 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:55,840 Speaker 1: upon comes first in the sentence, and the agent of 254 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 1: the action is obscured. So who is arresting the protesters, 255 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 1: who is entering the protesters? Who is doing the violence 256 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:08,560 Speaker 1: upon other people? When stories get broken into, when cars 257 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:13,280 Speaker 1: gets set on fire, Um, they want to blame us, 258 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:16,200 Speaker 1: But when we get hurt, it's not as clear in 259 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 1: the way that these things are construed, what the where 260 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:26,160 Speaker 1: the blame should be assigned. And I think that you know, 261 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 1: it comes from a long line of I mean journalistic 262 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:33,240 Speaker 1: practices in terms of just oh, something happened without identifying 263 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:36,120 Speaker 1: who did what to home. But you know, it also 264 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 1: goes into these like these narratives we see of like um, 265 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 1: this this this discourse of uh support the police, you know, 266 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:50,800 Speaker 1: uh smiling and you know, sharing photos of them doing 267 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 1: good work in the community as a way to perpetuate 268 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 1: that narrative. I think all these things work in tandem. 269 00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:03,160 Speaker 1: Two help protect us system that is fundamentally broken. And 270 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:06,680 Speaker 1: I understand when I look at that, when I when 271 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:10,480 Speaker 1: I look at um images of indiscriminate violence, you know, 272 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 1: against protesters are towards private property. Um, when I see 273 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:21,239 Speaker 1: headlines like that, I understand how folks can be confused 274 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:24,720 Speaker 1: about who is in the wrong here because the media 275 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:28,640 Speaker 1: is confusing people. I just feel like some of it 276 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:30,680 Speaker 1: kind of comes down to the state and what the 277 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:34,200 Speaker 1: purpose of the police is. Its purpose has always been 278 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:38,920 Speaker 1: like to protect property and rich people, and it's never 279 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:43,400 Speaker 1: really been to serve the community. To us, there's just 280 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 1: never been a point where it's like the police are 281 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:49,600 Speaker 1: like for the people and not for those in power. 282 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:52,920 Speaker 1: And so you're saying that the same way that like 283 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:57,240 Speaker 1: what communism has never worked. People who say policing has 284 00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 1: never worked, have never seen policing operate the way that 285 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 1: it is supposed to. I wouldn't even say the way 286 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 1: that it's supposed to, because how is it supposed to work? 287 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:08,240 Speaker 1: Just the whole concept of it is just And that's 288 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:10,440 Speaker 1: my question too, And that's why I'm an abolitionist, because 289 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:12,680 Speaker 1: I'm like, how is it supposed to work? I'm understand 290 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:15,879 Speaker 1: how mental health like resources are supposed to work for 291 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:19,199 Speaker 1: people having crises, and understand how social work is supposed 292 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:21,800 Speaker 1: to work for people that need access to resources. I 293 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:25,440 Speaker 1: understand how some restorative justice works. It's very challenging even 294 00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:28,399 Speaker 1: for my imagination when I'm post with questions about abolition 295 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:30,680 Speaker 1: or people like, well, what would you do in this situation, 296 00:17:31,359 --> 00:17:33,639 Speaker 1: and it's like, I don't know, but all I know 297 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:35,359 Speaker 1: is what we're doing right now is not working, and 298 00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:39,119 Speaker 1: I'm committed to finding solutions that are different. So I 299 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:41,720 Speaker 1: feel you, Yeah, I know, I tell you feel you. 300 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:48,200 Speaker 1: The way that police forces go after street crime, what 301 00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:51,040 Speaker 1: if that was reversed to go after white collar crime, 302 00:17:51,720 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 1: I might not feel too bad about that. I think 303 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:10,800 Speaker 1: it's really interesting to contrast people's reactions to seeing like 304 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:14,600 Speaker 1: an auto zone get burned down. Or um a cop 305 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:19,880 Speaker 1: pelted with the brick, um. And then uh, my actual 306 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:24,600 Speaker 1: experience of organizing and leading march here and Hapthens over 307 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:30,120 Speaker 1: the weekend. You tell us about that. Yeah, so, Um, 308 00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:34,760 Speaker 1: over the weekend, I, you know, as an elected official called, 309 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 1: in response to what I've been seeing across the country, 310 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:41,960 Speaker 1: called for a ten year plan to start being developed 311 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:46,840 Speaker 1: here locally that would transition of our police officer positions 312 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:51,200 Speaker 1: to social workers, mental health professional professionals, and restorative justice 313 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:55,399 Speaker 1: practitioners over the next ten years. And in response to 314 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:58,479 Speaker 1: that and some other things going on, UM, one of 315 00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:02,080 Speaker 1: my fellow you know, black queer fem organizers in town 316 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:05,880 Speaker 1: was like, Yo, let's have a rally here in Athens, 317 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:08,480 Speaker 1: and let's like center it on those demands, something concrete 318 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:12,080 Speaker 1: to channel people's anger into in this moment. So they 319 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:16,680 Speaker 1: started organizing up a rally. UM. I was somewhat involved, 320 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:18,879 Speaker 1: you know, in the like the group thread, trying to 321 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:23,520 Speaker 1: keep tabs on the developments. And then you know, we 322 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 1: let people know we're gonna have a march for a 323 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:28,320 Speaker 1: while without cops. Told to meet us on the courthouse 324 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:32,359 Speaker 1: steps at five pm. Um, So I show up and 325 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:38,040 Speaker 1: there's about maybe five people there and I'm merely start 326 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:41,199 Speaker 1: yelling in my megaphone, you know, Black lives matter, gaining 327 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:44,080 Speaker 1: them in chance. I take a moment to speaking to 328 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:47,199 Speaker 1: the megaphone, what my my plan is, what my idea is, 329 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 1: and um, folks are you know, calling out with their support, 330 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:54,800 Speaker 1: and we begin to march. We begin to march to 331 00:19:54,880 --> 00:20:00,600 Speaker 1: the streets, um, continuing to chant, we take over the street. Uh. 332 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:04,000 Speaker 1: We marched through prominent areas of downtown, meet up with 333 00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:07,560 Speaker 1: other folks who were gathered, and they joined us. And 334 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:10,119 Speaker 1: what was beautiful was that I was filled with so 335 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:15,879 Speaker 1: much fear and terror and anxiety and um, almost a 336 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:20,000 Speaker 1: sense of hopelessness going into the scenario, having seen the 337 00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 1: scenes of violence on the on the news throughout the 338 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:27,040 Speaker 1: past week, and knowing that we were we were inviting 339 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:29,960 Speaker 1: that on ourselves. We couldn't control if people came to 340 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:33,880 Speaker 1: break into store windows. Business owners online were accusing me, 341 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:39,119 Speaker 1: if anything happens today, it's it's your fault. Um. I 342 00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:41,639 Speaker 1: couldn't control if innocent people who would come there to 343 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:45,520 Speaker 1: stand in solidarity with black people across this country. Um, 344 00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 1: if they got tear gas that day, if they got 345 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 1: hit with rubber bullets, that day, and so I was shaking, 346 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:53,840 Speaker 1: I couldn't eat, I couldn't sleep. Um, but I stood 347 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:56,680 Speaker 1: up because I felt like it was my duty for oh, 348 00:20:56,840 --> 00:21:00,159 Speaker 1: you know, people of color, black people, particular of the 349 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:02,800 Speaker 1: black women and black queer folks, to take the lead 350 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:06,240 Speaker 1: in situations like this, you know, as the most marginalized people, 351 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:12,040 Speaker 1: to make the demands and be the face of change. 352 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:15,879 Speaker 1: So I'm out there at one point of standing up 353 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:20,560 Speaker 1: on a Confederate monument um, and the crowd is chanting, 354 00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 1: say his name, which one, Say her name? Which one? 355 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:28,360 Speaker 1: At which point I just started. I just broke down 356 00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:32,560 Speaker 1: and started sobbing um with the feet, my feet planted 357 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 1: on this relic of white supremacy, and thousands of people 358 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:43,159 Speaker 1: spread out all through the streets in front of me. Um. 359 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:46,000 Speaker 1: And but it was beautiful because we we didn't break 360 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:48,240 Speaker 1: into any stores. We weren't there to do damage or 361 00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:50,960 Speaker 1: due violence. The white people there were here to hear 362 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:55,240 Speaker 1: the stories too, of you know, black people in Athens, 363 00:21:55,480 --> 00:22:00,359 Speaker 1: the stories of oppression, of marginalization, of prejudice. There shoudn't 364 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 1: for what a better world could be. And um, it 365 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:08,199 Speaker 1: was a truly beautiful thing. But as night fell and 366 00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:13,040 Speaker 1: the crowd dispersed and several hundreds of people stayed behind, 367 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 1: and the National Guard came into town Um. They and 368 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:22,720 Speaker 1: the and the folks remaining peacefully occupied the main plaza 369 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:29,160 Speaker 1: in downtown with tents, with their hands up, chanting UM, 370 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:32,080 Speaker 1: just building cambaraderie with one another, talking to one another. 371 00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:35,080 Speaker 1: They were slowly boxed in by the National Guard. A 372 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:38,200 Speaker 1: drone flow overhead telling them to disperse. Kurfey was put 373 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 1: in place retroactively UM telling them that they was illegal 374 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:44,960 Speaker 1: for them to be downtown UM, and no one knew 375 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:47,400 Speaker 1: until an hour after it was too late to leave, 376 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:51,600 Speaker 1: and they were slowly being cornered by tanks and with 377 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:54,240 Speaker 1: their hands up and with their arms locked in solidarity 378 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:57,399 Speaker 1: with one another. They were tear gassed and hit with 379 00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:01,879 Speaker 1: rubber rubber bullets and arrested. And some of the black 380 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:05,200 Speaker 1: women who who organized the protests where when they got 381 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:08,240 Speaker 1: to the county jail, separated from the rest of the 382 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:11,320 Speaker 1: group in what we believe to be an active retaliation 383 00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:14,959 Speaker 1: in targeting for their involvement in bringing those folks together. 384 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:19,480 Speaker 1: And so I saw firsthand how folks coming together to 385 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:24,760 Speaker 1: or to demonstrate as is their right, non violently are 386 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:31,040 Speaker 1: met with violence. I witnessed firsthand how the armed forces, 387 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:35,280 Speaker 1: the arms of the police state, are the agitators. And 388 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:38,000 Speaker 1: I worked this firsthand as well, how powerful it is 389 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:43,439 Speaker 1: when we come together, nonetheless, because we developed concrete demands 390 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:45,720 Speaker 1: for what needs to happen next, and we educated people 391 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:48,720 Speaker 1: about what the world could look like. And we brought 392 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:52,040 Speaker 1: the mayor up who stood beside me on the Confederate Monument, 393 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,320 Speaker 1: and we made our demands to him, and we made 394 00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:59,080 Speaker 1: very clear that we are committed to the struggle. And 395 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:03,119 Speaker 1: so um, I just I think it's really important for 396 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:06,040 Speaker 1: folks that aren't in the struggle, who aren't out there 397 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:08,080 Speaker 1: in the streets, to be very cautious of what you're 398 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 1: seeing and hearing in the media, the way the headlines 399 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:15,479 Speaker 1: are written, the accounts that they are foregrounding when they 400 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:19,000 Speaker 1: describe what's happening, Because when you're there yourself, you see 401 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:22,680 Speaker 1: for yourself who is doing the agitating, who is doing 402 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:26,080 Speaker 1: the damage, who was doing the harm, And it's not us. 403 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:29,399 Speaker 1: Even if it is us, ain't even there to fucking 404 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:33,679 Speaker 1: like lay blamed anyone that's burning ship down or breaking 405 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:37,040 Speaker 1: in the stores. Because black people built this land for free, 406 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:40,720 Speaker 1: and I think we have every right to express our 407 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:43,160 Speaker 1: outrage about the way we are treated and the way 408 00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:47,159 Speaker 1: that our country has run by any means that are necessary. 409 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 1: But UM, too often we get lost in UM media 410 00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:58,960 Speaker 1: narratives that obscure who is truly to blame for what 411 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:02,520 Speaker 1: is happening here? And the armed forces are to blame 412 00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:05,560 Speaker 1: and white supremacy is to blame. So whatever people do 413 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:07,679 Speaker 1: out in these streets, most of these folks are just 414 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:13,280 Speaker 1: out here expressing their grievances peacefully. But um, they are 415 00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:15,320 Speaker 1: not the ones who started this battle. That's all I 416 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:20,360 Speaker 1: want to say. So where you see it going? UM, 417 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:22,240 Speaker 1: I can't you know? I got a crystal ball and 418 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:27,680 Speaker 1: nothing but UM. Here in Athens, we have mobilized around 419 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:32,359 Speaker 1: very specific demands for for our local legislators to to 420 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:38,439 Speaker 1: change the policing, to implement more community resources to prevent 421 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:41,080 Speaker 1: people from becoming criminals in the first place, and if 422 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:43,639 Speaker 1: they do commit crimes, to ensure that they never commit 423 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:46,399 Speaker 1: crimes again because they, you know, they have access to 424 00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:49,120 Speaker 1: good jobs, good food, good places to live, good education, 425 00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:52,520 Speaker 1: the kinds of things that studies have shown helped decrease 426 00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:57,200 Speaker 1: the likelihood of recidivism or offending in the first place nationwide. 427 00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:00,000 Speaker 1: It's hard to say. I know that you've been um 428 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,439 Speaker 1: keeping tabs on what some of the reactions by the 429 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:05,639 Speaker 1: federal government, So maybe you have a view of what 430 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:09,120 Speaker 1: you think might be coming next that you want to share. Well, 431 00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:13,159 Speaker 1: I mean, unfortunately, it all kind of comes down to 432 00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:17,520 Speaker 1: with the people in charge or trying to do. And 433 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:21,280 Speaker 1: this is happening in a political year, and it seems 434 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:23,120 Speaker 1: like Trump has given all the signs that he's trying 435 00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:25,280 Speaker 1: to go a Nixon route with it, which is on 436 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,480 Speaker 1: the law and order president YadA YadA, YadA, blah blah blah, 437 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 1: the thugs. So I don't I see I see the 438 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:37,199 Speaker 1: cops in the federal government in general ratcheting stuff up. 439 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:44,879 Speaker 1: And if Trump does, you know, if he does go 440 00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:50,280 Speaker 1: ahead and try to like force the US military onto 441 00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:53,400 Speaker 1: the streets, which according to a poll that just came 442 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:56,679 Speaker 1: out like today, percent of the country is in favor of, 443 00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:00,720 Speaker 1: then you know what I'm saying, that's is gonna happen, 444 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:02,920 Speaker 1: and it's going to be a matter of wills at 445 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:08,280 Speaker 1: that point. So just be safe out there. People. I 446 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:10,760 Speaker 1: think will achieve. I think we will. We will achieve 447 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:14,760 Speaker 1: policy change. What I've come to understand. And you know, 448 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:16,920 Speaker 1: like I roll with a lot of anarchists who are 449 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,560 Speaker 1: down with you know, armed revolution and ship like that. 450 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:22,679 Speaker 1: I'm not even gonna lie, like I don't always agree, 451 00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 1: but like I think it's very important listen what they 452 00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:28,720 Speaker 1: have to say. And I have become particularly critical of 453 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,960 Speaker 1: the that point, having watched the violent repression of the 454 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 1: state go down in the media and then with my 455 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:39,960 Speaker 1: own eyes, um, you know, in Athens recently. I mean 456 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:43,159 Speaker 1: I watched footage of what was happening, you know here Sunday, 457 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:46,480 Speaker 1: but I'm hearing recounts from friends and comrades of what 458 00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:49,239 Speaker 1: happened to them. And so I've come to believe that 459 00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:51,919 Speaker 1: we cannot take their power away with our hands and 460 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:55,360 Speaker 1: with our sticks and our stones, but we can take 461 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:58,359 Speaker 1: our their power away with our laws and in in 462 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:02,679 Speaker 1: progressive places or even places that might be conservative, but 463 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:06,920 Speaker 1: people are waking up. Local governments and state legislatures can 464 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:10,439 Speaker 1: and I believe will take action to prevent their cities 465 00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:23,920 Speaker 1: from burning to the ground. What do you think is 466 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:28,280 Speaker 1: hip hop's relationship to this. I've seen some video of 467 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:32,880 Speaker 1: I saw j Cole marching in North Carolina and wanted 468 00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:38,640 Speaker 1: the protests but I haven't really heard too much. Tory 469 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,280 Speaker 1: Lanes put out a statement where he was encouraging. He 470 00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:45,280 Speaker 1: actually was encouraging like UH rappers and black celebrities like 471 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:48,120 Speaker 1: if if what you have to say about the situation 472 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:51,160 Speaker 1: isn't in support of it, then just shut the fun 473 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:52,800 Speaker 1: shut the funk out, you know what I'm saying. I 474 00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:58,080 Speaker 1: folk with that. That's a good statement, but I guess 475 00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:00,280 Speaker 1: there's a lot of people who feel the should shut 476 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:03,640 Speaker 1: the funk up then then, because it's been awfully quiet, 477 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:06,120 Speaker 1: which is like kind of weird and kind of ironic 478 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:09,560 Speaker 1: that this blackout thing is happening because it's like, I mean, 479 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:11,800 Speaker 1: I'm doing it because I get it. I get it 480 00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:14,440 Speaker 1: for the hashtag and stuff. It gives people further cover 481 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:18,560 Speaker 1: to say nothing. Yeah, it feels like special. I feel 482 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:20,840 Speaker 1: like this is the moment to say stuff. You know 483 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,760 Speaker 1: what I'm saying, and and it's gonna be I mean, 484 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:28,000 Speaker 1: this is like obviously way less important, but just the 485 00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:31,520 Speaker 1: nerd in me is kind of interested in seeing where 486 00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:35,360 Speaker 1: culture goes after this point, you know what I mean, 487 00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:39,680 Speaker 1: Like what happens with hip hop after this point? What 488 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:43,200 Speaker 1: happens with like movies? You know what is like I 489 00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:46,720 Speaker 1: don't know. Just it's a whole new world. It's complete, 490 00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:51,320 Speaker 1: a completely different environment than it was three months ago. Yeah, 491 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:55,320 Speaker 1: like triple full. Really, Um, as a musician, how have 492 00:29:55,400 --> 00:30:02,480 Speaker 1: you been affected by both the ongoing pandemic and it's intensification. 493 00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:06,160 Speaker 1: I want to wrap in front of an audience so bad? Hey, 494 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:08,000 Speaker 1: you know I had about this live stream ship, like 495 00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:11,640 Speaker 1: for real, it's bad. I mean the live streams that 496 00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:13,440 Speaker 1: I've been doing a lot of. You know, if you 497 00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:18,200 Speaker 1: have the live stream like concert things, it's been fun 498 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:20,680 Speaker 1: and it's always fun when you like, you know, get 499 00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:23,560 Speaker 1: on zooms and streams and stuff and connect with people 500 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:25,479 Speaker 1: that yeah, don't get the thought too on the regular 501 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:30,160 Speaker 1: and ship. But um, yeah, like in the independent game, 502 00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:33,760 Speaker 1: the live shows is usually like your number one source 503 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:37,760 Speaker 1: of income from the ship. So it's definitely pretty much 504 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:40,600 Speaker 1: put a kabash in that. That's the biggest that's the 505 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:43,000 Speaker 1: biggest issue. But if you have a chance to support 506 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 1: musicians who are hurting as a you know, black musicians, 507 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:50,400 Speaker 1: particularly who are not only dealing with a loss of 508 00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,120 Speaker 1: income under COVID, but are now dealing with the emotional 509 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:56,200 Speaker 1: trauma of seeing what's happening across our country. Please follow 510 00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:59,320 Speaker 1: the Union of Musicians and Allied Workers. We are UMA. 511 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,920 Speaker 1: You m a w on Instagram to find out what 512 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,840 Speaker 1: some of their demands have been for musician relief. UM. 513 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 1: During this time, UM actually read up on the Black 514 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:13,840 Speaker 1: Lives Matter platform. If you're out there hashtag and black 515 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:16,720 Speaker 1: Lives Matter, find out what these people are calling for, 516 00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:20,240 Speaker 1: because things like a whole platform, because things like prison abolition, 517 00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:23,640 Speaker 1: things like you know, resourcing our communities. I might sound 518 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:25,760 Speaker 1: fucking wild out here saying this ship, but if you're 519 00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:27,920 Speaker 1: out here saying Black lives matter, that's what that ship 520 00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:31,240 Speaker 1: is about. So find out what the demands are that 521 00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:34,280 Speaker 1: are being made by these organizations. Find out what the 522 00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:36,720 Speaker 1: policy asks are and actually stand for that and don't 523 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:40,120 Speaker 1: just like feel sad when fucking black people get killed. 524 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:43,760 Speaker 1: Reparations doesn't have to be a federal project. It could 525 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,160 Speaker 1: be an individual endeavor that you can undertake every single 526 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,760 Speaker 1: day of your fucking life. So I got some flak 527 00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,200 Speaker 1: for yes from Sunday at the march, some of my 528 00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:56,040 Speaker 1: fellow black organizers started UM asking the people for money. 529 00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:57,960 Speaker 1: They started saying, if you're white and you're this crowd 530 00:31:58,040 --> 00:31:59,320 Speaker 1: right now, you need to come up here right now 531 00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:02,000 Speaker 1: and give us fucking money. And people did. We raised 532 00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:05,920 Speaker 1: probably over a thousand dollars. But um, and I understand 533 00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:08,080 Speaker 1: the manner in which she was asked made people uncomfortable. 534 00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:10,160 Speaker 1: And that's totally fine. You know, a diversity of tactics 535 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:15,800 Speaker 1: is necessary, but like, undertake reparations in your everyday life, Venmo, 536 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:19,600 Speaker 1: your black friends today, Uh, buy them a cup of coffee, 537 00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:23,120 Speaker 1: send them some food on you know, grub hub, drop 538 00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:25,840 Speaker 1: off some bottle of wine at their house. See what 539 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:29,160 Speaker 1: they need. Because, um, they're in a worse opposition than you, 540 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:35,920 Speaker 1: just because of centuries of white supremacist economic structures, social structures, 541 00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:41,600 Speaker 1: educational structures. Um, and they're hurting right now on top 542 00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:44,720 Speaker 1: of all of that. They're really hurting right now. And 543 00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:46,640 Speaker 1: so another thing I'll ask, Like people are like, donate 544 00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:50,840 Speaker 1: to a bail fund, donate to you know, legal defense fund, 545 00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:53,800 Speaker 1: and that's great, and do that, but literally send black 546 00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:55,960 Speaker 1: send money to your black people in your life, send 547 00:32:55,960 --> 00:33:03,160 Speaker 1: money to them. So to close things off, it feels 548 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:07,120 Speaker 1: only appropriate. You know, normally when we get this show, 549 00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:11,760 Speaker 1: go and we're probably gonna bust a freestyle or maybe 550 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:14,560 Speaker 1: like a dope verse for you guys as we close 551 00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:19,360 Speaker 1: things out, but it only feels appropriate to put it 552 00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:22,600 Speaker 1: a song that we did that just kind of feels 553 00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:24,680 Speaker 1: like it's perfect for the moment right now, I think 554 00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:26,880 Speaker 1: to close it out, we're gonna drop the song called 555 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:31,360 Speaker 1: f Trump America. This is with Western Ruler, Louis Larceny, 556 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:36,000 Speaker 1: Lingua Franca and myself produced by Western Ruler. So check 557 00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:48,800 Speaker 1: this out, yo, Trump America. My team is Black Kings 558 00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:51,360 Speaker 1: and Nigga mic checked one too, asking every racist in 559 00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:53,280 Speaker 1: the town the police come through. I hope my dole 560 00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:56,200 Speaker 1: finger when we suck your brow and fuck you too. 561 00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:59,040 Speaker 1: There's no we seems for you to think like this 562 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:01,560 Speaker 1: that these presidents ms. Let me call my mind. But 563 00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:04,040 Speaker 1: if you cross the lime black power fish brothers, here 564 00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:06,160 Speaker 1: is a stick up they can not dismiss us. Just 565 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:08,560 Speaker 1: take in the scripture. I got two black kids and 566 00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:11,239 Speaker 1: one black wife and justice touch this, You'll be one 567 00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:13,640 Speaker 1: long night. Just when this I'll fright a left jab 568 00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:16,040 Speaker 1: and or wright a young Kinney site with black middle 569 00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:17,800 Speaker 1: in the mic, the type that they would indict a 570 00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:20,040 Speaker 1: sentence of life. They're taking my rights thing on life 571 00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:22,360 Speaker 1: because I'm a Malcolmax sub order, steady kicking down the 572 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:24,440 Speaker 1: walls to help my people across the border, black man. 573 00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:27,600 Speaker 1: In your every year name something scary year Trump America, 574 00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:30,840 Speaker 1: or your middle finger self Trauma America, or your middle 575 00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:33,920 Speaker 1: finger stuff Trama Lara, or your middle fingers up from 576 00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:37,160 Speaker 1: tramp America, or your middle fingers up from tramp America, 577 00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:40,040 Speaker 1: or your middle fingers up frock Trampa America, or your 578 00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:43,120 Speaker 1: middle fingers up from Trampa America, or your middle fingers 579 00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:46,600 Speaker 1: up fro tramp America, or your middle fingers white America's Captain. 580 00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:48,680 Speaker 1: Buster's with me fair, because you gotta crack a couple 581 00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:51,000 Speaker 1: of lips to make an omelet. The drama and this comprision. 582 00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:53,000 Speaker 1: Then they distributed it upon the darkest skin, and it 583 00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:55,000 Speaker 1: ain't gonna get any better from what to nack? The 584 00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:57,040 Speaker 1: feller vanished in the flash of fairy dust. The will 585 00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:59,680 Speaker 1: the way by optimism, like you, Sagittarius, lift it up, 586 00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:02,400 Speaker 1: a little springing coming forward, Kerry's cherry up to Cherity's 587 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:04,759 Speaker 1: just And when niggas thinking very very very much, it's 588 00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:07,080 Speaker 1: walking down every street and knocking on every door and 589 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:09,920 Speaker 1: telling the neighborhood we ain't taking it anymore. Restoring the 590 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:12,080 Speaker 1: civil rights of every Bible that you know, get them 591 00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:14,560 Speaker 1: runners to devoting telling it to the boats because if 592 00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:17,040 Speaker 1: you're senator, won't say that black lives matter till that 593 00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:19,120 Speaker 1: guy but bit and get the funk about my ballot. 594 00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:21,440 Speaker 1: But they niggas is WoT more than they complained about it. 595 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:23,360 Speaker 1: It's what's the rule up for president in linguin in 596 00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:26,680 Speaker 1: the cabinet Trump America or your middle fingers that's been 597 00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:28,759 Speaker 1: the hot teas. And you know my little fingers that 598 00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:31,560 Speaker 1: funded Trump America or your middle fingers that's happened the 599 00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:34,280 Speaker 1: hot tease. You know, my little fingers I fulled Trump 600 00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:37,040 Speaker 1: America or your middle fingers I have been the hot tease. 601 00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:39,840 Speaker 1: You know my little fingers that fulled Trump America or 602 00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:42,120 Speaker 1: your middle fingers are in the hot teas, And you 603 00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:44,480 Speaker 1: know my little fingers out into the fixed show of 604 00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:47,000 Speaker 1: small fan lazies. Send up stakes to hell, tell them 605 00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:49,760 Speaker 1: all head to hades with to kill them. Keep calling 606 00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:52,279 Speaker 1: me crazy to in the head chill they hold dead 607 00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:56,400 Speaker 1: baby having take hate Manka terrible the averagage, not my president. 608 00:35:56,520 --> 00:36:00,600 Speaker 1: Tell me who the terrorists terrible and terrible adjustment re America. 609 00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:03,360 Speaker 1: Stop for bringing kids from their parents. It's gonna take amever, 610 00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:06,160 Speaker 1: go to stop these animals. Not everybody across the border 611 00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:08,800 Speaker 1: is a criminal. Cops, click to shoot the kid. It's pitiful. 612 00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:10,799 Speaker 1: It's gonna take a city full of money. Is just 613 00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:12,960 Speaker 1: to hold us back. We wear a subliminal I don't 614 00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:15,759 Speaker 1: believe the height symbol of the center coole puller, drive 615 00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:18,719 Speaker 1: by on the gold light. Don't be fist middle finger 616 00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:21,120 Speaker 1: up like with Malcolm x l A swing upon the 617 00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:24,080 Speaker 1: steps little fun shop America or your middle fingers up 618 00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:27,600 Speaker 1: fun shop America told your middle fingers found chop Amanita, 619 00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:30,400 Speaker 1: or your middle fingers up found chop America. Through your 620 00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:33,680 Speaker 1: middle fingers found chop America. Through your better fingers up 621 00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:37,160 Speaker 1: fun chomp America, or your middle fingers found tramp on America, 622 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:40,680 Speaker 1: or your better fingers up found chomp America, your middle fingers. 623 00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:42,839 Speaker 1: You should all come together, which is all quite true. 624 00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:45,320 Speaker 1: What can't resist slap the ship out of it? All right, dude, 625 00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:48,239 Speaker 1: I don't like you funking ice, murderous pig, burning the 626 00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:50,719 Speaker 1: pith with a white of servant chick. I think I 627 00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:53,080 Speaker 1: kip a funk about a session. The only con way 628 00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:54,959 Speaker 1: I funk with the squeeze and the weapon we didn't 629 00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:57,520 Speaker 1: even forget it. Small talk starting to seem a reverence. 630 00:36:57,600 --> 00:36:59,440 Speaker 1: If this was all frands, they say we needed but 631 00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:01,759 Speaker 1: head and I say this ship because the way they 632 00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:04,520 Speaker 1: is a switch play proud boys, y'all may day quick, 633 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:07,600 Speaker 1: I raised this fist since babased kids are meeting colar 634 00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:09,600 Speaker 1: greens with a sign of pay paste legs to keep 635 00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:11,279 Speaker 1: the dunk of sealed if they sing a song and 636 00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:13,839 Speaker 1: we fucking kneel black cock plus your wife turned into 637 00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:17,400 Speaker 1: a cup for real talk full more rap, hard radical 638 00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:21,080 Speaker 1: people left more than Nascar from America. Throw your middle 639 00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:25,440 Speaker 1: fingus up Trauma America. Throw your middle foods or throw 640 00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:28,920 Speaker 1: your middle fumus up trapmeric Throw your middle fromous up, 641 00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:33,480 Speaker 1: throw your middle fumous up Trauma, Throw your middle fumus 642 00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:37,880 Speaker 1: up Trauma. Proll your middle fingus up, throw your middle 643 00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:42,720 Speaker 1: fingus OFFA Waiting on Reparations a production of I Heeart Radio. 644 00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:46,160 Speaker 1: Listen to Waiting on Reparations on the I Heart Radio app, 645 00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:48,840 Speaker 1: Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.