1
00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:06,200
Speaker 1: Hey there, folks, did its Friday September fifth, and mystery solved. No,

2
00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:11,160
Speaker 1: the Annabelle Doll did not just kill a guy, and

3
00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:15,120
Speaker 1: the corner even put that in his report, but still

4
00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:18,799
Speaker 1: not everybody is buying it. And with that, welcome to

5
00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:23,279
Speaker 1: this Annabelle edition of Amy and TJ. This was a

6
00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:26,479
Speaker 1: mystery this summer. A paranormal investigator who had been dealing

7
00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:31,080
Speaker 1: with the infamous Annabelle Doll found dead. No explanation, We

8
00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:33,560
Speaker 1: got a reason why, but ropes, You've been looking in

9
00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:35,320
Speaker 1: a lot online and a lot of people do not

10
00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:38,800
Speaker 1: buy the answer to the coroner has given us.

11
00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:41,559
Speaker 2: Yes, this is pretty fascinating. And by the way, the

12
00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:46,120
Speaker 2: timing of the release of his autopsy has not gone unnoticed.

13
00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:49,760
Speaker 2: Of course, we had the final installment of the Conjuring

14
00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:54,880
Speaker 2: today Friday is its opening release. There were early showings

15
00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:58,400
Speaker 2: yesterday which we saw and loved. But just to have

16
00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:01,200
Speaker 2: this timing, this news come out all around the same

17
00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:03,920
Speaker 2: time as eerie in and of itself. But yes, even

18
00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:07,319
Speaker 2: though we got the official word from the Corner that

19
00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:11,199
Speaker 2: this was a cardiac event, that did not stop people

20
00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:14,160
Speaker 2: from still believing that annabel had something to do with that.

21
00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:15,960
Speaker 2: So I was looking at some of the comments, things

22
00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:18,119
Speaker 2: like should have left that doll in her glass box

23
00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:21,120
Speaker 2: where she belongs forever. Y'all can say it's not real,

24
00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:23,360
Speaker 2: but until y'all go get Annabelle and spend a week

25
00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:25,600
Speaker 2: with her, you don't know what you don't know.

26
00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:28,920
Speaker 1: And we're talking about Dan Rivera here, the paranormal investigator

27
00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:31,360
Speaker 1: who's fifty four years old. He was found alone in

28
00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:35,640
Speaker 1: his hotel room in Gettysburg, Pennsylvania, and you lie of

29
00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:38,800
Speaker 1: this summer and he was on tour with this Annabel doll.

30
00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:41,440
Speaker 1: We're just saying annabel doll, assuming everybody knows what we're

31
00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:43,360
Speaker 1: talking about. It was the doll that was made famous

32
00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:47,720
Speaker 1: by the Conjuring movies, the Conjuring franchise. They certainly believe

33
00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:51,440
Speaker 1: Eda Lorraine Warren, that this doll was possessed, was demonic,

34
00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:54,240
Speaker 1: kept it stored in a glass case. I didn't even

35
00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:57,320
Speaker 1: realize they had been touring around with it. Other paranormal

36
00:01:57,320 --> 00:01:59,680
Speaker 1: investigators take it out on tour. There was a soul

37
00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:02,360
Speaker 1: doot of it in Gettysburg, Pennsylvania. The next day, this

38
00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:06,320
Speaker 1: man found dead in his hotel room. No cause of death.

39
00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:09,320
Speaker 1: It was unexpected, but not suspicious, So that gets us

40
00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:12,440
Speaker 1: caught up on where we are now. They told us

41
00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:14,560
Speaker 1: that the time roads these things take time. It's going

42
00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:17,400
Speaker 1: to be a little while to get the autopsy report.

43
00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:20,760
Speaker 1: But the speculation you can't help. But even us, you

44
00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:24,760
Speaker 1: don't have to be into the paranormal necessarily. But given

45
00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:26,640
Speaker 1: what we know in the history of the Warrens and

46
00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:28,800
Speaker 1: this doll, and everything we've seen in the movies and

47
00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:31,840
Speaker 1: the actual history of this doll, we for the past

48
00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:34,959
Speaker 1: couple of months have been looking at this and going, wait.

49
00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:38,280
Speaker 2: A minute, whoa I mean, look, I think it's absolutely

50
00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:42,639
Speaker 2: I get why people are trying to connect the dots

51
00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:45,840
Speaker 2: because if you do believe in what the Warrens, Ed

52
00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:49,040
Speaker 2: and Lorraine Warrens spent their life devoted to trying to

53
00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:53,600
Speaker 2: help people who were troubled by demonic possession. In fact,

54
00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:56,760
Speaker 2: Ed Warren is the only non priest who was sanctioned

55
00:02:56,760 --> 00:03:00,200
Speaker 2: by the Catholic Church to perform exorcism. So there are

56
00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:03,160
Speaker 2: a lot of folks who absolutely buy their credibility as

57
00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:05,920
Speaker 2: experts in this field. There are others who think they're Charlatans,

58
00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:10,040
Speaker 2: who think this is all ridiculous. But the unexplained is

59
00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:13,079
Speaker 2: the unexplained, and then to get the corner the corners

60
00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:17,079
Speaker 2: or the autopsy results basically saying that it was a

61
00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:22,239
Speaker 2: cardiac issue. That doesn't necessarily clear up for a lot

62
00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:24,800
Speaker 2: of people who believe in the power of this doll,

63
00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:30,079
Speaker 2: that somehow the doll or evil couldn't have been responsible

64
00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:34,160
Speaker 2: for it. Certainly is he was alone in a hotel

65
00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:36,720
Speaker 2: room at fifty four years old, and he had just

66
00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:41,480
Speaker 2: wrapped this Gettysburg leg of the tour. And we can

67
00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:44,040
Speaker 2: get into some of the other issues, but where Annimal

68
00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:47,920
Speaker 2: had been, a couple of tragedies had unfolded as she

69
00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:49,760
Speaker 2: left within a day or two. So a lot of

70
00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:53,480
Speaker 2: people were already pointing to the doll's powers and not

71
00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:56,680
Speaker 2: wanting the doll to come to their city, and so

72
00:03:56,920 --> 00:04:01,120
Speaker 2: to have the man Dan Rivieia actually found dead once

73
00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:05,200
Speaker 2: he wrapped it up in an unexplained fashion just fueled

74
00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:06,120
Speaker 2: conspiracy theorist.

75
00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:10,160
Speaker 1: Look, we weren't putting stuff out there necessarily about conspiracy theories.

76
00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:14,280
Speaker 1: I don't necessarily find it to be a conspiracy. We

77
00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:16,880
Speaker 1: talked about this. We watched the final installment of the

78
00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:19,920
Speaker 1: Conjuring franchise Conjuring Last Rites. We did see it last night,

79
00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:22,440
Speaker 1: and I leaned over to you at some point because

80
00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:24,840
Speaker 1: they were showing the room where the Warrens would keep

81
00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:28,360
Speaker 1: all of these items, these demonic items that they collected

82
00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:30,599
Speaker 1: from their investigations, and the doll stays in there in

83
00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:32,920
Speaker 1: the class case. I just leaned over. I said, would

84
00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:35,039
Speaker 1: you go in there? If you had a chance to

85
00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:38,400
Speaker 1: go into Ed and Lorraine Warren's basement, that room where

86
00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:41,640
Speaker 1: they kept all this stuff, including the Annabelle doll, would

87
00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:42,880
Speaker 1: you take the opportunity?

88
00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:48,520
Speaker 2: And I said, without hesitation, no, no, absolutely not. And

89
00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:51,240
Speaker 2: you can laugh at that, but I just wouldn't want

90
00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:53,240
Speaker 2: to risk it. Look, I think a lot of people

91
00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:55,400
Speaker 2: who are a faith sometimes have a hard time with this,

92
00:04:55,839 --> 00:05:00,000
Speaker 2: but I was. My mom is a Catholic and very faithful,

93
00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:04,920
Speaker 2: and she had at times given me a little just

94
00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:07,600
Speaker 2: a little skepticism, a little sneer, saying, I can't believe

95
00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:10,000
Speaker 2: you actually might believe some of this stuff is true.

96
00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:12,719
Speaker 2: And I said, if you are a religious person, you

97
00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:16,120
Speaker 2: believe in the supernatural, you believe in something you can't explain.

98
00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:19,720
Speaker 2: You believe in a power that you cannot see. You

99
00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:23,080
Speaker 2: believe in a force that you cannot touch, that you

100
00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:25,800
Speaker 2: don't actually have proof of other than your faith, And

101
00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:27,920
Speaker 2: so for that, if you think about it in those terms,

102
00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:31,280
Speaker 2: it's not that crazy to believe that there could be

103
00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:33,920
Speaker 2: other realms, that there could be supernatural realms that those

104
00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:36,719
Speaker 2: who have passed might have access, and there could be

105
00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:41,120
Speaker 2: evil spirits as well as good spirits. And so for

106
00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:44,440
Speaker 2: anyone who actually just takes a second to think about it,

107
00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:47,440
Speaker 2: it's not impossible in the world we live in with

108
00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:49,320
Speaker 2: the beliefs most people hold.

109
00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:52,479
Speaker 1: In this world, there's been plenty unexplained. And there's a

110
00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:55,440
Speaker 1: great line to what you were saying that Patrick Wilson had.

111
00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:58,480
Speaker 1: I think it was en conjuring three, where he said,

112
00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:03,040
Speaker 1: are courts every single day by having people take an

113
00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:06,560
Speaker 1: oath acknowledge the existence of God? Don't you think it's

114
00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:09,200
Speaker 1: about time they acknowledge the existence of the devil as well?

115
00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:11,800
Speaker 1: That is the point, and that makes perfect sense. How

116
00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:13,320
Speaker 1: can you be a believer in one thing and not

117
00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:15,000
Speaker 1: on the other side. So I don't think this is

118
00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:17,800
Speaker 1: There have been all kinds of documented cases of supernatural

119
00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:19,479
Speaker 1: You can be a believer or not. But for me

120
00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:22,200
Speaker 1: and we have seen enough, we've read enough, we've studied enough.

121
00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:25,320
Speaker 1: I wouldn't mess around with this doll. If somebody walked

122
00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:27,200
Speaker 1: in our home right now carrying that doll.

123
00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:29,760
Speaker 2: I believe that's hell out of here. So I just

124
00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:32,280
Speaker 2: got chills when you said that, because I was imagining

125
00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:37,960
Speaker 2: attending one of these displays or these tours. There's absolutely

126
00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:41,000
Speaker 2: no way I would go, just out of fear of

127
00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:43,640
Speaker 2: what if. And I don't want to be anywhere near

128
00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:46,320
Speaker 2: anything that is said to have been possessed, that is

129
00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:48,440
Speaker 2: said to have caused harm, that is said to have

130
00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:52,279
Speaker 2: been surrounded by evil spirits. No, thank you, and.

131
00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:54,479
Speaker 1: We love and as much as we are a fan

132
00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:57,640
Speaker 1: of this movie franchise and know about this doll, I

133
00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:00,880
Speaker 1: wouldn't even be curious to see it. And if you

134
00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:02,359
Speaker 1: all don't know, if you have seen the movies, at

135
00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:03,880
Speaker 1: least you know the doll that it is kind of

136
00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:07,680
Speaker 1: a porcelain two foot or so sized doll that has

137
00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:10,160
Speaker 1: a bizarre smile on its face, but it has kind

138
00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:12,760
Speaker 1: of a waxy smooth face to it, and it's it's

139
00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:15,680
Speaker 1: not making a menacing look, but it looks menacing. It

140
00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:18,320
Speaker 1: just looks terrifying when you see the one in the movie,

141
00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:20,520
Speaker 1: but that's not the actual one in real life. It

142
00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:21,360
Speaker 1: doesn't look like that.

143
00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:23,200
Speaker 2: That's right. So this, yeah, the one you see in

144
00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:24,720
Speaker 2: the movie is like a porcelain doll, like you said,

145
00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:27,920
Speaker 2: that's been aged and tossed around and just looks frankly demonic.

146
00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:32,440
Speaker 2: The actual Annabelle doll that Edda Lorraine Warren put in

147
00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:35,480
Speaker 2: that glass case and said do not touch. It's actually

148
00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:40,600
Speaker 2: a large, raggedy an doll and very much like a sewn,

149
00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:46,440
Speaker 2: a homemade almost looking doll that's fairly large for its size.

150
00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:48,840
Speaker 2: To me, is almost scarier than the one in the

151
00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:53,239
Speaker 2: movies because it looks so innocent and childlike, at least.

152
00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:55,520
Speaker 1: The one in the movie. It does creep you out

153
00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:57,840
Speaker 1: enough that you would, you know, you would be on

154
00:07:57,920 --> 00:07:59,960
Speaker 1: guard if you see this raggedy an doll. You wouldn't

155
00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:01,920
Speaker 1: anything of it, which makes it even more terrible.

156
00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:03,880
Speaker 2: Exactly, you would pick it right up, not feeling like

157
00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:06,920
Speaker 2: it was scary at all. But no, this was the

158
00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:09,800
Speaker 2: glass box that the Warrens kept it in in their

159
00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:15,920
Speaker 2: home museum was to contain the evil spirited entity, and

160
00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:18,840
Speaker 2: they warned about taking the doll out of the case,

161
00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:22,200
Speaker 2: about touching the case. And so the interesting thing about

162
00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:25,200
Speaker 2: this whole story is that Dan Rivera was a student,

163
00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:30,280
Speaker 2: an apprentice so to speak, of Lorraine Warren specifically, and

164
00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:33,280
Speaker 2: he studied under her. And he was a part and

165
00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:36,079
Speaker 2: a member of the New England Society for Psychic Research,

166
00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:39,840
Speaker 2: which was founded back in nineteen fifty two by Ed

167
00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:41,960
Speaker 2: and Lorraine Warren. So there was a direct connection to

168
00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:45,880
Speaker 2: Lorraine Warren. There's a direct connection to the work that

169
00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:48,120
Speaker 2: they put in into the Conjuring movies. And so to

170
00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:52,280
Speaker 2: have him die at fifty four unexpectedly in a hotel room,

171
00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:55,480
Speaker 2: of course, that's the first thing people think.

172
00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:59,480
Speaker 1: Now the corner, I thought this was just interesting. Did

173
00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:02,240
Speaker 1: it put out a statement? But yes, put out the findings,

174
00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:04,480
Speaker 1: and like you mentioned a moment ago, the fact that

175
00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:08,400
Speaker 1: he seemed to die of a cardiac event on his own.

176
00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:10,600
Speaker 1: I think there were even reports that they put out

177
00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:12,520
Speaker 1: that he reported to some of his friends he was

178
00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:15,160
Speaker 1: traveling with co workers, that he wasn't feeling good necessarily

179
00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:15,679
Speaker 1: that night is all.

180
00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:18,720
Speaker 2: Right, yes, right, at the end of the last day

181
00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:20,920
Speaker 2: this was a Sunday, I believe it was a weekend tour,

182
00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:24,000
Speaker 2: he told his colleagues that he wasn't feeling well and

183
00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:25,560
Speaker 2: he was going to go up to his room and

184
00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:27,040
Speaker 2: lay down all right.

185
00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:30,480
Speaker 1: So the corner now has made the announcement on the

186
00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:33,920
Speaker 1: day that the final Conjuring movie is released. He just

187
00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:35,679
Speaker 1: happened to put out this statement, but he said, yes,

188
00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:39,640
Speaker 1: died of natural causes, but added this, mister Rivera had

189
00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:43,439
Speaker 1: a known history of cardiac issues which were consistent with

190
00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:48,600
Speaker 1: the findings. It is also confirmed that Annabel was not

191
00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:52,040
Speaker 1: present in the room at the time of his passing.

192
00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:55,839
Speaker 1: I thought it was funny that he called it as

193
00:09:55,840 --> 00:10:00,960
Speaker 1: if it was a person, not the doll, Annabelle Annabel.

194
00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:02,920
Speaker 1: He said, Annabel wasn't.

195
00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:04,320
Speaker 2: In there, and I thought it was funny that he

196
00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:08,360
Speaker 2: felt the need to add that a corner whose job

197
00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:11,520
Speaker 2: it is to determine how someone died and if the

198
00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:14,400
Speaker 2: manner of that death was suspicious, felt the need to

199
00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:18,760
Speaker 2: let everyone know that Annabel wasn't in the room at

200
00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:21,120
Speaker 2: the time of his passing. But if anyone is a

201
00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:24,760
Speaker 2: fan of Edda Lorraine Warren or of the Conjuring movies,

202
00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:27,440
Speaker 2: that really doesn't make it that much of a difference.

203
00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:29,520
Speaker 2: He was with the doll, he was moving the doll,

204
00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:31,920
Speaker 2: he was touring with the doll. We don't know exactly

205
00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:34,240
Speaker 2: where the doll was, but he had just been with it,

206
00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:36,360
Speaker 2: and so we all know Annabel has her ways. I

207
00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:40,720
Speaker 2: mean she can appear, disappear, suddenly be in a rocking chair,

208
00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:42,720
Speaker 2: and then suddenly be in her glass case, and then

209
00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:45,920
Speaker 2: suddenly show up somewhere else. So honestly, that really didn't

210
00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:47,880
Speaker 2: impact me. Although if the doll had been in the room,

211
00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:49,040
Speaker 2: that would have been creepier.

212
00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:50,880
Speaker 1: Oh, this would have been We would have led every

213
00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:53,360
Speaker 1: single morning in the morning run with that story if

214
00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:57,040
Speaker 1: it was the case. But as you're saying, right, you're

215
00:10:57,320 --> 00:10:59,080
Speaker 1: if folks thought for it. If you haven't been watching

216
00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:01,199
Speaker 1: the conjuring movies in the front, you might think that

217
00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:06,520
Speaker 1: Robes was just being sarcastic or just being a little silly.

218
00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:09,880
Speaker 1: They're talking about the doll moving. No, there is a

219
00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:14,520
Speaker 1: documented case with this doll of reports of it moving inexplicably,

220
00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:17,240
Speaker 1: moving on its own, showing up in different places in

221
00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:19,760
Speaker 1: a house. This is how the Warrens first got involved,

222
00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:22,960
Speaker 1: a call to a home where this was happening. This doll.

223
00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:25,959
Speaker 1: Someone said it actually was leaving notes, It was writing notes,

224
00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:29,000
Speaker 1: and so things were happening. So to suggest here in

225
00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:31,280
Speaker 1: real life that this doll might have moved around and

226
00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:34,760
Speaker 1: been up to something, in fact, is in line with

227
00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:39,400
Speaker 1: what this doll has been documented as doing over the

228
00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:40,720
Speaker 1: past several decades.

229
00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:44,240
Speaker 2: Now robes that's right, that's right. And look, when Dan

230
00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:47,280
Speaker 2: Rivera held this final tour that he had with the

231
00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:52,680
Speaker 2: doll in Gettysburg, he actually was making jokes and telling

232
00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:56,040
Speaker 2: people that he had taken great measures to make sure

233
00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:59,320
Speaker 2: that they were protected being in the same room or

234
00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:01,400
Speaker 2: being in the presence of Annabelle. This was a sold

235
00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:03,839
Speaker 2: out tour by the way. I mean, people were clamoring

236
00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:07,520
Speaker 2: to see this doll. But he absolutely told them that

237
00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:12,080
Speaker 2: he built the case with three crosses, which represented the

238
00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:15,199
Speaker 2: Holy Trinity, and he said it was stained with holy water.

239
00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:18,240
Speaker 2: So he had done what he could to protect people

240
00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:21,360
Speaker 2: from the doll or the evil entity that lives within

241
00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:24,240
Speaker 2: the doll. While still viewing the doll.

242
00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:28,040
Speaker 1: It's absolutely incredible this has happened. Look, there are a

243
00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:31,400
Speaker 1: lot of people in the community, right there are people outside,

244
00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:35,439
Speaker 1: but in the paranormal community that look up to this guy.

245
00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:39,880
Speaker 1: Who have they've lost someone who was actually an advocate,

246
00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:43,160
Speaker 1: a supporter who was I guess like edd Lorraine Warren

247
00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:45,439
Speaker 1: were trying to put this into more of the mainstream,

248
00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:48,040
Speaker 1: which they did and they're credited for this is the

249
00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:51,319
Speaker 1: guy who was really at the top of an of

250
00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:54,200
Speaker 1: this world, which is very small. So it is a

251
00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:56,520
Speaker 1: big loss for that paranormal community. I know people are

252
00:12:56,960 --> 00:12:59,440
Speaker 1: making some jokes out there and whatnot, but we have

253
00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:01,800
Speaker 1: to always don't forget that the core of this story

254
00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:05,360
Speaker 1: is a tragedy, a human tragedy that is now for

255
00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:07,080
Speaker 1: some surrounded in mystery.

256
00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:09,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, we should mention Dan Rivera had a wife, he

257
00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:14,320
Speaker 2: had four kids, and so this is a real tragedy

258
00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:17,080
Speaker 2: that an entire family is suffering from. Because again, when

259
00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:20,200
Speaker 2: you have someone die that young, that is it's so sudden,

260
00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:22,160
Speaker 2: it's so tragic, and I'm sure it does not help

261
00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:25,080
Speaker 2: to have all the theories and the speculation and the

262
00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:27,920
Speaker 2: online chatter about how he died or why he died

263
00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:29,280
Speaker 2: still ever present.

264
00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:31,840
Speaker 1: All right, but why exactly? I know some of you've

265
00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:33,600
Speaker 1: seen the movies, you hear us talking about it. But

266
00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:37,559
Speaker 1: what started this all? Well, you're not gonna believe, and

267
00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:40,320
Speaker 1: we're gonna share once again some of these details about

268
00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:47,520
Speaker 1: what exactly this doll allegedly did initially to three young

269
00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:50,400
Speaker 1: folks that had them scared to go home.

270
00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:03,640
Speaker 2: Welcome back to this edition of Amy and TJ. And

271
00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:05,800
Speaker 2: we have just received the.

272
00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:10,319
Speaker 3: Official autopsy results of the fifty four year old paranormal

273
00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:15,800
Speaker 3: investigator Dan Rivera, who suddenly and unexpectedly died while touring

274
00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:20,040
Speaker 3: with the legendary or maybe I should say infamous notorious

275
00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:24,239
Speaker 3: Annabelle Dahl, made famous by the Conjuring movies. And these results,

276
00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:27,920
Speaker 3: which we have been awaiting actually now for months, ironically,

277
00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:33,720
Speaker 3: maybe just coincidentally, came out on the day the Conjuring movie,

278
00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:37,520
Speaker 3: the final Edition The Last Rite, has now hit theater

279
00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:40,160
Speaker 3: Helbquin nationwide. I mean that really threw me.

280
00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:43,280
Speaker 2: I have to be honest, that was a very strange

281
00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:44,640
Speaker 2: and odd coincidence.

282
00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:46,600
Speaker 1: He had to have known the movie was coming out.

283
00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:51,000
Speaker 1: I mean, no reason to wait. Maybe it just the coincidence.

284
00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:53,440
Speaker 1: I'm done with my work, it's ready, there's no reason

285
00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:55,720
Speaker 1: to hold it just because a movie came out. I

286
00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:58,440
Speaker 1: don't know, it's just it's it that's odd. And it

287
00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:01,880
Speaker 1: fell on the exact same day. So we're sitting in there,

288
00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:04,200
Speaker 1: we know, we got the news about it yesterday, and

289
00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:05,840
Speaker 1: then we're sitting in the theater last night looking at

290
00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:07,000
Speaker 1: Alan annabel on screen.

291
00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:09,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, it yes, and that none of that was lost

292
00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:13,160
Speaker 2: on us because this doll's history goes way back. So

293
00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:16,640
Speaker 2: it all began back in nineteen seventy when a mom

294
00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:21,200
Speaker 2: gave this doll, Annabel, to her daughter, Donna, who was

295
00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:24,840
Speaker 2: a nursing student. And that's when Donna says she noticed

296
00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:29,000
Speaker 2: the doll making small movements at first, and it would

297
00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:31,400
Speaker 2: show up in a room as to what we were

298
00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:33,720
Speaker 2: saying earlier about the doll being able to move. So

299
00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:35,960
Speaker 2: that's why the fact that Annabel wasn't in the room

300
00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:39,640
Speaker 2: at the time of Dan Rivera's death doesn't really change

301
00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:41,880
Speaker 2: anything for the people who know the history of this doll.

302
00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:43,600
Speaker 1: But you there are a lot of people listening to

303
00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:44,560
Speaker 1: us right now going.

304
00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:47,400
Speaker 2: They're rolling their break. We get it, stop, we get it.

305
00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:51,480
Speaker 1: And I'm telling you right now I believe. I mean,

306
00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:53,960
Speaker 1: I'm not at all. I mean, you could do percentages

307
00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:55,760
Speaker 1: and where I'm on the fence, but there is I

308
00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:58,320
Speaker 1: am not one who was skeptical enough to go no,

309
00:15:58,320 --> 00:15:59,360
Speaker 1: no way, that didn't happen.

310
00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:02,480
Speaker 2: Huh know, you know what, Stranger things have happened, and

311
00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:04,360
Speaker 2: there are plenty of things that we can't explain. But

312
00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:07,800
Speaker 2: this doll, in addition to showing up in rooms that

313
00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:10,960
Speaker 2: they didn't leave it in. This is really creepy, and

314
00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:14,720
Speaker 2: this was definitely shown in the movies even last night,

315
00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:20,120
Speaker 2: help Me help us. They found that written on parchment

316
00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:22,360
Speaker 2: paper that they didn't have in their home.

317
00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:24,320
Speaker 1: Correct.

318
00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:27,600
Speaker 2: Ah. Now in the movie it says, miss me, I

319
00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:29,720
Speaker 2: believe with a question mark. But this had helped me

320
00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:32,840
Speaker 2: help us. And so that is when they called in

321
00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:36,840
Speaker 2: a medium. And this medium tells this nursing student and

322
00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:42,520
Speaker 2: her roommates that I guess the ghost or the spirit

323
00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:44,960
Speaker 2: that was possessing the doll's name was Annabel Higgins, a

324
00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:47,440
Speaker 2: seven year old who had died and once lived there.

325
00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:51,400
Speaker 2: And the medium told Donna and her friends that Annabel

326
00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:54,400
Speaker 2: liked them and wanted to be love. So the girls

327
00:16:54,800 --> 00:17:01,040
Speaker 2: gave her permission to enter the doll. Big mistake, big, big,

328
00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:05,200
Speaker 2: big mistake. So after that happened, their friend Lou, who

329
00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:07,040
Speaker 2: actually you can see in the movie as one of

330
00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:09,000
Speaker 2: the guys sitting on that couch talking to the warrants.

331
00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:12,160
Speaker 1: Well, he wasn't talking. He was traumatized, the guy sitting there,

332
00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:15,280
Speaker 1: because he went through it probably worse than anybody in

333
00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:17,040
Speaker 1: that house, did he not, Yes, he.

334
00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:20,639
Speaker 2: Claims that he was awake, but couldn't move like that

335
00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:23,280
Speaker 2: sleep paralysis kind of thing that terrifies the heck out

336
00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:25,480
Speaker 2: of me. He said. He was looking around the room

337
00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:28,920
Speaker 2: but couldn't discern anything out of the ordinary, and then

338
00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:34,280
Speaker 2: he looked down towards his feet and he saw Annabel.

339
00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:38,560
Speaker 2: He says, it started to glide up his leg, move

340
00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:45,000
Speaker 2: over his chest, and then stopped and started strangling him.

341
00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:50,360
Speaker 1: That's unbelievable. I get the idea of that. You want

342
00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:53,239
Speaker 1: to your first thought is, come on, of course this

343
00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:55,200
Speaker 1: didn't happen, and they're making it up some kind of

344
00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:56,919
Speaker 1: elaborate hoax in nineteen seventy.

345
00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:00,280
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, that's all right. So Edien La and were

346
00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:04,480
Speaker 2: brought in after this account was I guess related to them,

347
00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:08,080
Speaker 2: and that's when they told Donna and her friends the

348
00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:12,640
Speaker 2: doll's not possessed by some young seven year old girl

349
00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:15,720
Speaker 2: named Annabel who just wants to be friends. No, this

350
00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:19,879
Speaker 2: was an inhuman demonic spirit who was starting with the

351
00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:22,600
Speaker 2: possession of the doll, and its ultimate goal was to

352
00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:24,879
Speaker 2: possess them to get inside a human.

353
00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:29,120
Speaker 1: The explanation was that this was all part of the

354
00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:33,840
Speaker 1: demon's plan for them to call in the medium to

355
00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:38,480
Speaker 1: manipulate her into manipulating them. So she became the authority.

356
00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:40,439
Speaker 1: So they trusted what this woman was saying and they

357
00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:42,199
Speaker 1: invite her in. So this I would all start it,

358
00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:45,520
Speaker 1: believe it or not. Now we go down the years

359
00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:47,639
Speaker 1: in the road. There was one other incident that robes

360
00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:51,200
Speaker 1: the motorcycle incident where somebody and you could see somebody

361
00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:53,600
Speaker 1: doing this, right, They're going to tour the Ed and

362
00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:56,680
Speaker 1: Lorraine Warren's basement down there, they see the doll. Some

363
00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:59,520
Speaker 1: guy sees the doll, it starts mocking That's the last

364
00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:01,879
Speaker 1: thing I would ever do. But starts mocking it.

365
00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:03,239
Speaker 2: Well, it's the last thing he ever did.

366
00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:06,119
Speaker 1: When he hopped on his motorcycle after that on the

367
00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:08,879
Speaker 1: way home, wasn't his girlfriend with him? Yes, he had

368
00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:12,679
Speaker 1: a motorcycle accident on the way home from mocking the

369
00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:16,639
Speaker 1: doll and died. Yes, that too can just be a coincidence.

370
00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:19,119
Speaker 2: It could, but a lot of people are pointing to

371
00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:21,639
Speaker 2: the fact that Ed and Lorraine Warren, while they were alive,

372
00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:26,680
Speaker 2: absolutely warned to never move the doll. So a lot

373
00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:32,800
Speaker 2: of these folks are saying online that because Dan Rivera

374
00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:36,320
Speaker 2: was spearheading this tour and decided to move the doll

375
00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:39,200
Speaker 2: and paraded around the country so that people could see

376
00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:43,120
Speaker 2: it and understand what the history is of the doll,

377
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:46,800
Speaker 2: that that is why he died, and that ed and

378
00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:51,080
Speaker 2: Lorraine Warren absolutely warned of the powers of this doll

379
00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:53,439
Speaker 2: if you moved it, if you touched it, if you

380
00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:58,359
Speaker 2: took it anywhere outside of their museum, which they kept

381
00:19:58,440 --> 00:19:59,919
Speaker 2: locked at all times.

382
00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:03,600
Speaker 1: And it's locked back up now, right it It did return, yeah, museum,

383
00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:06,040
Speaker 1: and it's there, and there's someone new who was a

384
00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:09,160
Speaker 1: steward of it, essentially the warden, if you will, who

385
00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:11,000
Speaker 1: is in charge of looking after it. But it is

386
00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:12,679
Speaker 1: back in a safe place. I actually don't know if

387
00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:16,160
Speaker 1: they're planning on touring in anymore after this. I don't

388
00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:17,720
Speaker 1: know if they can, don't know if they should. I

389
00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:20,080
Speaker 1: guess maybe this is added to the mystery and you

390
00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:22,720
Speaker 1: might have more interest in going to see it, or

391
00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:25,760
Speaker 1: you might never sell a ticket again. But if it

392
00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:28,080
Speaker 1: comes to New York, I might leave town.

393
00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:30,640
Speaker 2: Well here's the crazy thing. And then they haven't said

394
00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:33,640
Speaker 2: whether or not they're going to it had been scheduled

395
00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:36,600
Speaker 2: to have another leg of the tour in Illinois that

396
00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:39,879
Speaker 2: was canceled after the death of Dan Rivera. But the

397
00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:42,320
Speaker 2: crazy thing is, if you go back to when he

398
00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:44,679
Speaker 2: was touring the Doll, it started in New Orleans for

399
00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:47,320
Speaker 2: a two day event at a ghost city tour. This

400
00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:49,600
Speaker 2: was in May, so this was the beginning of the tour.

401
00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:54,880
Speaker 2: There just so happened to be a prison escape, which

402
00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:58,080
Speaker 2: we have fully covered in Morning Run, and a plantation

403
00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:02,119
Speaker 2: fire that happened and some plantation went burned to the

404
00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:04,479
Speaker 2: ground that had been there for hundreds of years. And

405
00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:08,359
Speaker 2: so people were already going online and blaming Annabelle for

406
00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:12,119
Speaker 2: these two events in New Orleans and said things online

407
00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:15,200
Speaker 2: like I wonder what's going to happen in Gettysburg because

408
00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:16,960
Speaker 2: they knew that was the next leg of the tour,

409
00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:20,120
Speaker 2: And so for people to already be speculating and then

410
00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:25,240
Speaker 2: for him to die unexpectedly, that's a that's just a

411
00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:27,080
Speaker 2: tough thing to ignore.

412
00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:30,320
Speaker 1: Some things we call a coincidence and other things we

413
00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:35,359
Speaker 1: leave as unexplained. Can't be in both categories. On this one,

414
00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:38,960
Speaker 1: it's one or the other. And this might be unexplained,

415
00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:43,160
Speaker 1: or maybe some people will never accept anything other than

416
00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:45,760
Speaker 1: that Doll had something to do with his death. But

417
00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:49,280
Speaker 1: hearts go out to certainly that that community and and

418
00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:51,480
Speaker 1: his family. I didn't know about four kids. Four Yeah,

419
00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:54,160
Speaker 1: I didn't know four kids. But that's tough, and that's sad.

420
00:21:55,359 --> 00:22:00,679
Speaker 1: But also we we appreciate to a certain degree this

421
00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:03,800
Speaker 1: movie making this conjuring franchise, which is the greatest, the

422
00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:07,560
Speaker 1: most profitable in horror movie history, just that storytelling and

423
00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:11,399
Speaker 1: bringing Ed and Lorraine story to the masses in a

424
00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:13,760
Speaker 1: different way. And we have been able to study them.

425
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:16,960
Speaker 1: And yes, people think they were snake oil salesmen to

426
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:19,320
Speaker 1: a certain degree, but a lot of people will tell

427
00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:22,520
Speaker 1: you they helped. So no matter what, these are lives

428
00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:25,600
Speaker 1: and stories of interest and worth noting and worth taking

429
00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:29,000
Speaker 1: lessons from. And I appreciate that we've been big fans

430
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:31,160
Speaker 1: of the franchise. I appreciate that we went and saw

431
00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:33,720
Speaker 1: the movie last night that we absolutely love. Check out

432
00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:36,280
Speaker 1: our movie review. That episode is up. Also, it was

433
00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:38,879
Speaker 1: like eleven o'clock at night. We were not well, so

434
00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:40,480
Speaker 1: if nothing else, just have a good time, but.

435
00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:43,920
Speaker 2: We were giddy because we actually felt joy coming out

436
00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:47,359
Speaker 2: of that movie because it was just so good, so

437
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:50,520
Speaker 2: well done. It had the right amount of fear and

438
00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:52,320
Speaker 2: the right amount of heart, and it just was a

439
00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:56,399
Speaker 2: great combo and a great way to end this storied franchise.

440
00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:59,440
Speaker 2: But we just want to say thank you for listening

441
00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:02,320
Speaker 2: to us, and yeah, check out the movie, check out

442
00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:05,840
Speaker 2: our podcast, and just let it be known, we'll never

443
00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:09,760
Speaker 2: get anywhere near, not even in the same city as

444
00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:12,760
Speaker 2: that navel doll, just out of respect for what it

445
00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:16,480
Speaker 2: could represent. So with that, everyone have a great Friday.

446
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:20,000
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening. I'm Amy Robot alongside TJ. Holmes. Talk

447
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:20,440
Speaker 2: to you soon.