WEBVTT - Questions: Part 2 [bonus] 0:00:08.080 --> 0:00:12.320 In Atlanta, another body whispers coming today at Police Task 0:00:12.360 --> 0:00:16.439 Force headquarters. There are twenty seven faces on the wall, murdered, 0:00:16.600 --> 0:00:19.080 one missing. We do not know the person or persons 0:00:19.079 --> 0:00:21.000 that are responsible. Therefore, we do not have the MODI 0:00:21.440 --> 0:00:24.759 from Tinderfoot TV and How Stuff Works in Atlanta. Like 0:00:24.840 --> 0:00:27.920 eleven other recent victims in Atlanta, Rogers apparently was a 0:00:28.040 --> 0:00:31.760 fixy victor. Atlanta was unlikely to catch the killer unless 0:00:31.840 --> 0:00:42.560 he keeps on killing. This is Atlanta Monster. Hey, guys, 0:00:42.560 --> 0:00:44.560 welcome to part two of our Q and A session. 0:00:44.600 --> 0:00:47.280 I'm here with the Tenderfoot TV team and How Stuff Works. 0:00:47.479 --> 0:00:51.280 I'm Jason from How Stuff Works from Tenderfoot Mrs Donald 0:00:51.400 --> 0:00:53.480 from tinder Foot TV, and we're here today to answer 0:00:53.520 --> 0:00:56.680 your questions. Hey, my name is Joe. Was there ever 0:00:56.800 --> 0:00:59.240 a house or location of where they thought there was 0:00:59.280 --> 0:01:02.040 like a sex at ring going on where people were 0:01:02.120 --> 0:01:05.080 taking maybe over to that house and that's gonna bring 0:01:05.200 --> 0:01:09.199 carpet there. Just wondered if you'd ever heard anything about 0:01:09.280 --> 0:01:13.440 them actually investigating the house. One of the hardest parts 0:01:13.440 --> 0:01:17.000 of this story, I think to to hear, and frankly, 0:01:17.000 --> 0:01:18.640 it was a story that was told in the media, 0:01:19.000 --> 0:01:24.360 so going to uncle Tom's house. Tom Terrell, UM, there 0:01:24.480 --> 0:01:27.880 was frank and open talk about at least ten of 0:01:27.920 --> 0:01:32.920 these boys visiting his house. We've seen some pretty graphic 0:01:32.959 --> 0:01:36.920 detail of what happened there, that these kids would come 0:01:36.920 --> 0:01:39.399 through the neighborhood and just for a couple of bucks, 0:01:39.400 --> 0:01:42.960 would participate in some you know, some pretty troubling things 0:01:43.000 --> 0:01:46.440 and even sleep over. Um. A couple of years after 0:01:46.840 --> 0:01:49.840 this case was closed, Tom Terrell's house and the house 0:01:49.920 --> 0:01:53.080 next door burned down. We went back, if you remember, 0:01:54.080 --> 0:01:56.440 and it was raised. There was nothing there. It was 0:01:56.560 --> 0:01:59.320 it was a clean field, empty lot. If you were 0:01:59.320 --> 0:02:01.680 looking at the old and you look directly to your left, 0:02:01.760 --> 0:02:04.080 you saw the Georgia Dome and you saw where the Omni, 0:02:04.160 --> 0:02:07.800 which is a big location in the podcast. So you 0:02:07.800 --> 0:02:11.080 can actually imagine where kids were coming from there, going 0:02:11.120 --> 0:02:14.519 through the neighborhood, stopping and then hitting their ultimate destination 0:02:15.280 --> 0:02:18.000 at their houses at any time of the day. UM. 0:02:18.000 --> 0:02:23.400 It's really heartbreaking. Uh. And often in trials, not all 0:02:23.400 --> 0:02:26.360 the evidence they have is presented, just enough of the 0:02:26.440 --> 0:02:30.399 strongest evidence is used to convict someone. So even though 0:02:30.400 --> 0:02:32.120 it was known it was in the media, it doesn't 0:02:32.120 --> 0:02:34.360 mean it has to show up in trial. But what 0:02:34.480 --> 0:02:37.560 we don't know is was there a larger kind of 0:02:37.800 --> 0:02:41.360 pyramid of players here. We've heard some of the adult 0:02:41.440 --> 0:02:45.320 victims may have been running through the same neighborhood. So 0:02:45.639 --> 0:02:48.799 I hate speculating on this stuff, but something really really 0:02:48.919 --> 0:02:52.040 nags at me that says there's a connection here. I 0:02:52.120 --> 0:02:54.359 just don't know what it is. And we didn't present 0:02:54.480 --> 0:02:57.480 this on the podcast because we frankly just didn't have 0:02:57.639 --> 0:03:00.600 the evidence. We didn't have anything that would tell us 0:03:00.639 --> 0:03:04.840 that these things were all specifically connected. Even back then, 0:03:04.880 --> 0:03:08.400 the media theorized that some of the adult victims could 0:03:08.440 --> 0:03:13.720 actually have been co conspirators. So there is a scenario 0:03:13.960 --> 0:03:17.480 that some of these things are connected, um, and that 0:03:17.639 --> 0:03:21.680 it's larger than one person. So we already all believe that, 0:03:21.720 --> 0:03:24.000 you know, this wasn't all the work of one monster, 0:03:24.680 --> 0:03:27.040 but it could be the work of a few people 0:03:27.040 --> 0:03:29.359 working together. And then some of some other things that 0:03:29.400 --> 0:03:31.280 are can be unrelated, some things that are related to 0:03:31.320 --> 0:03:35.440 those um that those houses and some of those victims 0:03:35.560 --> 0:03:37.920 that work at those houses that also weren't related to 0:03:38.480 --> 0:03:41.360 Wayne Williams or any other co conspirators with Wayne Williams. 0:03:41.360 --> 0:03:43.040 So just you know, like I said, there's just not 0:03:43.120 --> 0:03:46.840 enough evidence to point that that is true or false. 0:03:47.080 --> 0:03:49.080 So it's one of the things we didn't really dive 0:03:49.120 --> 0:03:51.160 deep into because it's a big question mark. So we 0:03:51.240 --> 0:03:54.000 kind of focused on, you know, the larger issues in 0:03:54.000 --> 0:03:56.080 front of us that we had, you know, more evidence 0:03:56.120 --> 0:03:59.040 to point to. It was called Uncle Tom's Cabin, was 0:03:59.120 --> 0:04:02.320 the nickname that it was given in the media. Vincent Hill, 0:04:02.600 --> 0:04:06.640 the former police officer, was a huge advocate of this theory, 0:04:07.120 --> 0:04:09.720 and he had his own evidence. He showed me he 0:04:10.000 --> 0:04:14.880 firmly believed that there was a real connection between this 0:04:15.280 --> 0:04:19.320 Uncle Tom's Cabin and the Atlantic child murders, and based 0:04:19.360 --> 0:04:21.320 on what he showed me, I think that at least 0:04:21.360 --> 0:04:24.600 a few of the victims were connected. But the question remains, 0:04:25.279 --> 0:04:27.440 did it have to do with Wayne Williams. Is there 0:04:27.480 --> 0:04:30.359 a bigger story here or are we looking at a 0:04:30.400 --> 0:04:33.640 bunch of different murders by different people. Yeah, I mean, 0:04:33.720 --> 0:04:37.320 like tim Timothy Hill was at Tom Terrell's house the 0:04:37.400 --> 0:04:39.920 day before he went missing and was supposed to return, 0:04:40.160 --> 0:04:42.440 and you can't just you can't dismiss that. But it's 0:04:42.440 --> 0:04:44.920 hard to put those connections together so many years later. 0:04:45.240 --> 0:04:48.000 That's the problem with this Everyone says, it's so confusing. 0:04:48.360 --> 0:04:51.599 It is confusing. It there's no way to make it 0:04:51.640 --> 0:04:54.560 all makes sense, because I firmly believe it doesn't all 0:04:54.600 --> 0:04:57.800 make sense. It doesn't all connect. There's not one big 0:04:57.839 --> 0:05:01.280 puzzle here that makes sense. And this is this explains everything, right, 0:05:01.320 --> 0:05:04.560 We're talking about different things that happened, right. I think 0:05:04.760 --> 0:05:07.240 one thing that we make the mistake of just the 0:05:07.279 --> 0:05:09.760 general public when we look at, um a crime like 0:05:09.800 --> 0:05:13.120 this is trying to find the one after that solves everything. 0:05:13.640 --> 0:05:18.000 And also that trying to look at every child name 0:05:18.040 --> 0:05:22.200 that appears on a list and saying that, um, all 0:05:22.279 --> 0:05:25.039 of the evidence has to fit every single victim, and 0:05:25.080 --> 0:05:28.200 when one doesn't fit, we can't throw it all out. 0:05:28.680 --> 0:05:31.880 It makes me that that evidence are that assailant or 0:05:31.920 --> 0:05:35.760 you know, the person responsible for one is not responsive 0:05:35.800 --> 0:05:40.359 for the other. There's definitely a world where several of 0:05:40.440 --> 0:05:44.880 these victims are murdered for several different reasons, some associated 0:05:44.880 --> 0:05:47.360 with one killer, some associated with this house, some by 0:05:47.400 --> 0:05:50.040 street violence. And all that evidences is no way's gonna 0:05:50.040 --> 0:05:53.359 all match up. And and one thing is true, and 0:05:53.400 --> 0:05:56.840 that's that sex rings were a real thing in Atlanta 0:05:56.880 --> 0:06:00.280 and other cities. UM, We're gonna share a c from 0:06:00.320 --> 0:06:05.360 another another caller who actually know her father was named 0:06:05.360 --> 0:06:08.600 Wayne Williams and was in the phone book, and they 0:06:08.680 --> 0:06:11.560 got all kinds of nasty calls. And here she shares 0:06:11.600 --> 0:06:15.120 a story of some of the sex ring activities that 0:06:15.160 --> 0:06:18.640 we're having in Cabbage Town here in Atlanta. I lived 0:06:18.640 --> 0:06:21.640 in MND Park at the time, which is just on 0:06:21.680 --> 0:06:25.880 the other side of the tracks from where everything was happening. 0:06:25.920 --> 0:06:28.360 I had a lot of memories of it. I know 0:06:28.560 --> 0:06:32.760 for a fact that there was a kitty pornography ring 0:06:32.960 --> 0:06:36.479 that was going on in Cabbage Town at the time. 0:06:36.520 --> 0:06:39.440 And I noticed for a fact because I rode the 0:06:39.520 --> 0:06:43.599 school bus with a lot of the boys who would 0:06:43.640 --> 0:06:50.160 whisper about getting paid for ppe pictures. Have that you know, 0:06:50.480 --> 0:06:53.840 kind of burned into my brain. This is there from 0:06:53.839 --> 0:06:55.800 Los Angeles that I know, you guys kind of touched 0:06:55.839 --> 0:06:58.560 on this before, but there's never been on any serious 0:06:58.560 --> 0:07:02.640 te quarry on whether Wayne possibly partnered with his father 0:07:02.960 --> 0:07:06.359 in these murders. The fibers from the house being on 0:07:06.440 --> 0:07:08.760 the victims. It seems to me the only good way 0:07:08.800 --> 0:07:11.360 to get a fiber onto a victim his direct contact 0:07:11.400 --> 0:07:15.000 with the fibers themselves and though the victims were brought 0:07:15.040 --> 0:07:20.240 home and disposed of, and even photographs. Most serial killers 0:07:20.280 --> 0:07:23.560 have a trophy aspect to them, and Wayne dead with 0:07:23.680 --> 0:07:27.920 a photographer and doing taking pictures of the funerals afterwards. 0:07:28.760 --> 0:07:32.160 That's a good point. It would be merely speculation to 0:07:32.240 --> 0:07:34.560 talk about that at all. But one thing I do 0:07:34.680 --> 0:07:38.320 find interesting is that you take all the evidence against 0:07:38.320 --> 0:07:42.680 Wayne Williams, it would also match his father, all the 0:07:42.720 --> 0:07:46.360 carpet fibers, everything would be the same. So it is interesting. 0:07:46.840 --> 0:07:49.640 And I don't know much about their relationship. I asked 0:07:49.640 --> 0:07:51.360 Wayne a few times about his father, but he never 0:07:51.360 --> 0:07:53.320 really got into it, which I found also was kind 0:07:53.360 --> 0:07:55.840 of strange. And they had a strained relationship, and we 0:07:55.840 --> 0:07:58.680 we kind of briefly touched on that they've had an 0:07:58.760 --> 0:08:01.200 argument out in a parking out around the trial time. 0:08:01.960 --> 0:08:04.520 We stayed away from trying to present a lot of 0:08:04.520 --> 0:08:06.800 the speculation on this. We heard a lot of stories 0:08:06.800 --> 0:08:09.720 that we actually did not put in the podcast. Um, 0:08:09.760 --> 0:08:12.680 but I will say this, We do know that Homer 0:08:12.680 --> 0:08:16.160 Williams was the only photographer at the Frank Sinatra Sammy 0:08:16.240 --> 0:08:19.320 Davis Junior Benefit concert. We do know that he was 0:08:19.400 --> 0:08:21.760 on stage with Frank Sinatra. We do know that he 0:08:21.800 --> 0:08:25.960 took the iconic photo of Sammy Davis Jr. And maer 0:08:26.040 --> 0:08:29.640 casim Read. But there's there's lots of questions, Like one 0:08:29.680 --> 0:08:32.160 of the things we heard over and over again was 0:08:33.160 --> 0:08:35.400 Wayne and Homer are showing up at the funerals. They're 0:08:35.400 --> 0:08:38.040 showing up at the at the case sites where the 0:08:38.040 --> 0:08:40.600 bodies were. I can tell you personally, I looked at 0:08:40.640 --> 0:08:43.920 hours and hours and hours of video footage and never 0:08:44.000 --> 0:08:45.800 saw it. So we're not going to make a statement 0:08:45.840 --> 0:08:48.199 on that, Like I've never seen it with my own eyes, 0:08:48.360 --> 0:08:51.800 so to present that out there just doesn't make sense. 0:08:51.960 --> 0:08:54.959 We do know that Chet Deutlinger talked about Homer being 0:08:54.960 --> 0:08:57.480 there at Jimmy Ray Paine's funeral, and we did discuss 0:08:57.960 --> 0:09:01.160 kind of that connection. Uh, We've heard lots of things. 0:09:01.280 --> 0:09:04.640 Chat also talks about he actually met with Homer and 0:09:04.679 --> 0:09:08.560 Wayne a lot. He met Wayne and jail. He went 0:09:08.679 --> 0:09:11.760 to their residence when Wayne was in jail and Homer 0:09:11.840 --> 0:09:14.880 was at home and talked with him about the fact 0:09:14.960 --> 0:09:17.880 that they took boxes and put him in dumpsters near 0:09:17.960 --> 0:09:22.720 on nearby downtown school, and the fact that Homer had 0:09:22.920 --> 0:09:28.120 all kinds of photography that he burned, and he admitted 0:09:28.160 --> 0:09:31.680 to doing it, but he said, you know, it was 0:09:31.760 --> 0:09:35.120 just unclaimed extra copies of stuff, and and even so 0:09:35.240 --> 0:09:37.120 I'll burn him and not just throw him away. Yeah, 0:09:37.160 --> 0:09:39.120 and this was in the kind of clean up phase. 0:09:39.240 --> 0:09:43.480 He said, Um, they were unclaimed extra copies and photos 0:09:43.520 --> 0:09:46.120 that just didn't turn out right. And Chet said, I've 0:09:46.120 --> 0:09:48.680 never been satisfied with any part of the explanation about 0:09:48.720 --> 0:09:52.120 the cleanup, either Wayne's or Homer's. The best I can 0:09:52.160 --> 0:09:56.800 say is it could be true. Mhm. Hi, my name 0:09:56.840 --> 0:09:58.800 is Laurie. So several years ago I read the book 0:09:58.880 --> 0:10:01.440 Mine Hunter by John Douglas. He is one of the 0:10:01.559 --> 0:10:05.280 people that basically founded the field of criminal profiling. That's 0:10:05.280 --> 0:10:07.680 a really fascinating book. And he had an entire chapter 0:10:08.000 --> 0:10:10.920 on the Atlanta child murders and in that chapter he 0:10:11.000 --> 0:10:14.839 describes exactly what was in the profile before they caught 0:10:14.840 --> 0:10:19.240 Wayne Williams and it is absolutely uncanny. Yes, I've read that. 0:10:19.480 --> 0:10:23.520 I've read that section of his book, Mine Hunter. Um, 0:10:23.600 --> 0:10:26.840 we did try to reach out to John Douglas early on. Uh, 0:10:26.880 --> 0:10:30.000 the name John Douglas came up multiple times in the FBI. 0:10:30.360 --> 0:10:33.080 Everyone we talked to really looked up to this person. 0:10:33.160 --> 0:10:35.480 He was a brilliant man. He's still around and we 0:10:35.600 --> 0:10:37.240 tried to reach out to him early on, but we 0:10:37.240 --> 0:10:39.719 were not able to get an interview lined up. I 0:10:39.760 --> 0:10:41.600 think there was a sort of conflict of interest with 0:10:41.640 --> 0:10:44.280 the My Hunter show and our show. But you know, 0:10:44.400 --> 0:10:46.000 he expressed that he would like to do it, but 0:10:46.040 --> 0:10:48.240 it didn't work out. But you know, everyone we talked 0:10:48.240 --> 0:10:50.520 to an FBI really looked up to this guy, and 0:10:50.559 --> 0:10:53.600 he was sort of the mastermind of creating these FBI 0:10:53.720 --> 0:10:56.320 profiles like this. Some of them are even his students. 0:10:56.400 --> 0:10:59.320 I think Popcorn said he went to John Douglas's class 0:10:59.320 --> 0:11:01.400 and things like that. Yeah, it's pretty interesting, it is. 0:11:01.559 --> 0:11:04.240 It's really interesting with the extra context of watching Mine 0:11:04.320 --> 0:11:07.520 Hunter and seeing some of those classes conducted to kind 0:11:07.559 --> 0:11:11.000 of it's gonna be really interesting to see how that 0:11:11.120 --> 0:11:15.040 the rumored kind of um coverage of Wayne Williams in 0:11:15.040 --> 0:11:17.520 the Atlanta child murders in season two of Mine Hunter 0:11:17.600 --> 0:11:21.240 plays out based on everything that we know. Hi, my 0:11:21.320 --> 0:11:24.640 name was Kia. A few episodes back, you talked to 0:11:24.679 --> 0:11:28.400 a gentleman that was abdusted in a car and kind 0:11:28.440 --> 0:11:32.080 of got out, but the plastic seats kind of grabbed 0:11:32.080 --> 0:11:34.040 the back of the pick that was in his pocket, 0:11:34.400 --> 0:11:36.160 and on his way out, the guy who kind of 0:11:36.200 --> 0:11:39.920 sort of maybe looked like Wayne Williams said goodbye and 0:11:40.000 --> 0:11:42.800 called and by his name. Did you think any deeper 0:11:42.800 --> 0:11:45.800 into that story? Did you revisit it? Because it sounds 0:11:45.840 --> 0:11:48.960 like there's somebody out there that was snatching kids that 0:11:49.000 --> 0:11:52.679 looked very much like Wayne Williams. I don't have enough information, 0:11:52.720 --> 0:11:55.400 but I was just curious. That story stuck with me 0:11:56.040 --> 0:12:00.360 by Rodney, that's what he said. It was extremely erie. 0:12:00.880 --> 0:12:03.800 It's a bizarre story. I don't know what else to 0:12:03.800 --> 0:12:05.440 say about it, to be honest, I don't. I don't 0:12:05.440 --> 0:12:08.200 know where to look for more information on that to 0:12:08.480 --> 0:12:11.520 build a bigger story out of it. This guy was 0:12:12.480 --> 0:12:15.880 being one sincere to me. He had never told anyone 0:12:15.960 --> 0:12:20.160 publicly this story before. And we've also heard after that 0:12:20.280 --> 0:12:23.160 a few other stories that make it sound like there 0:12:23.240 --> 0:12:27.120 was maybe this guy who resembled Wayne Williams who was 0:12:27.200 --> 0:12:29.959 roaming around the streets of Atlanta in abducting kids, or 0:12:30.000 --> 0:12:33.400 at least attempting to. Is that true. I don't know. 0:12:33.480 --> 0:12:36.040 I cannot say for certain if it is or not. 0:12:36.480 --> 0:12:38.680 Either when you slice it, it seems like there was 0:12:39.400 --> 0:12:42.560 someone who looked like Wayne Williams who was out in 0:12:42.600 --> 0:12:46.240 Atlanta at that time abducting kids, or at least attempting to. 0:12:47.160 --> 0:12:50.040 Was it Wayne? This guy says for certain it was not. 0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:52.360 He knew what Wayne looked like and it wasn't him. 0:12:52.559 --> 0:12:55.120 So was there someone else out there? I don't know, Okay, 0:12:55.200 --> 0:12:58.880 So Wayne's look seems to be unique to us. I 0:12:58.920 --> 0:13:01.319 think now in two thousand eighteen, we here, here's the 0:13:01.320 --> 0:13:04.560 guy with afro and glasses, and it seems almost like 0:13:04.559 --> 0:13:07.600 this iconic, you know, pictures that we've seen of Wayne Williams. 0:13:07.840 --> 0:13:10.040 But at the time, it's been suggested to us many 0:13:10.080 --> 0:13:13.120 times that that was not a unique look. Lots of 0:13:13.120 --> 0:13:16.320 people had that hairstyle, lots of people had those same 0:13:16.360 --> 0:13:18.920 types of glasses at that time, and so it's possible 0:13:19.000 --> 0:13:20.800 that there was someone who looked a lot like him. 0:13:21.160 --> 0:13:24.160 Vincent Hill even said I looked like that, My dad 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:26.560 looked like that, We all looked like that. Yeah, that 0:13:26.679 --> 0:13:29.240 was a go to look, you know, late seventies, early eighties, 0:13:29.280 --> 0:13:33.040 So not surprising that you know, someone else is out 0:13:33.080 --> 0:13:36.080 there and being mistaken for Wayne Williams. If that's what 0:13:36.120 --> 0:13:38.640 you know, what the look was I think what gives 0:13:38.920 --> 0:13:41.120 UM a little more creagence to some of the other 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:45.200 eyewitnesses is them being able to also say that guy had, 0:13:45.440 --> 0:13:48.440 you know, abrasions or a scar on his face. And 0:13:48.480 --> 0:13:51.120 I think that's um kind of what sets the idea 0:13:51.120 --> 0:13:53.800 apart from, you know, the people who say it definitely 0:13:53.840 --> 0:13:55.880 wasn't Wayne, and people say that it was him. When 0:13:55.920 --> 0:13:59.120 I listened to the interview with Rodney for the first time, 0:13:59.600 --> 0:14:02.400 it was just a stunning story by itself, but I 0:14:02.440 --> 0:14:05.559 was also struck by the story of the driver giving 0:14:05.760 --> 0:14:08.840 Rodney drugs and not really knowing what was in that. 0:14:09.320 --> 0:14:11.800 The question has come up multiple times, how do you 0:14:11.840 --> 0:14:14.360 get these scrappy kids in your car or you know, 0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:17.360 take them and kill them and without having a scratch 0:14:17.440 --> 0:14:20.680 or out having scars. And Wayne's just five seven and 0:14:20.720 --> 0:14:24.240 a pudgy guy, and it just it's always kind of 0:14:24.280 --> 0:14:27.000 bothered me that maybe that was the trick, right, is 0:14:27.960 --> 0:14:33.080 giving these young kids some concoction that that reduced their resistance. 0:14:33.120 --> 0:14:34.760 I don't know, there was something that's always kind of 0:14:34.840 --> 0:14:37.840 bugged me about that, and that being the almost like 0:14:37.880 --> 0:14:41.160 the candy that the strangers giving these kids to uh 0:14:41.280 --> 0:14:44.120 to make them more vulnerable. Because I think there is 0:14:44.160 --> 0:14:47.440 a point to these kids being tough and scrappy and 0:14:47.520 --> 0:14:50.720 on the streets that would be difficult to take down. 0:14:51.280 --> 0:14:53.000 I think the power that you're talking about when it 0:14:53.040 --> 0:14:57.160 comes to serial killers is in their manipulation. Every serial 0:14:57.240 --> 0:15:01.960 killer manipulated their victims and gained their trust somehow. I 0:15:01.960 --> 0:15:05.560 think that we often underestimate what that is. I think 0:15:05.560 --> 0:15:09.160 that if you're a psychopath, your sociopath, you have all 0:15:09.160 --> 0:15:13.440 these traits and you're trying to kill somebody, you are 0:15:13.520 --> 0:15:16.640 convincing them of everything you need to to get them 0:15:16.680 --> 0:15:19.560 in your car. Yeah. And if you remember the kind 0:15:19.560 --> 0:15:22.160 of anonymous interview that we played in one of the 0:15:22.240 --> 0:15:26.720 episodes um of the Guy That Knew Wayne and and 0:15:26.840 --> 0:15:30.400 Jojo Bell, he talked about how Wayne had a network 0:15:30.520 --> 0:15:34.480 of spies that were kids helping him watch the neighborhood. 0:15:34.560 --> 0:15:37.800 So again, if he is the person his ability to 0:15:37.840 --> 0:15:40.400 kind of manipulate those kids and have them act on 0:15:40.520 --> 0:15:46.160 his behalf, it's pretty powerful. This is Jenny Kafka and Ediston, 0:15:46.200 --> 0:15:51.040 New Jersey. How has the podcast shaken things up with 0:15:51.080 --> 0:15:54.880 the law enforcement? Have they been responding, has they've been acting, 0:15:54.960 --> 0:15:59.840 has they've been pursuing um or reevaluating because of what 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:03.880 you're doing. I highly doubt it. I think that this 0:16:03.960 --> 0:16:08.800 is a very old case. Uh. The FBI is happy 0:16:08.920 --> 0:16:12.560 with the way this ended. It's closed in their minds. 0:16:13.760 --> 0:16:15.920 I don't think way Williams is getting out of prison 0:16:15.960 --> 0:16:19.880 anytime soon, regardless of whether or not he's guilty or innocent. 0:16:20.480 --> 0:16:22.520 That's just the way it is now. It's been almost 0:16:22.600 --> 0:16:27.000 forty years. I don't think the police feel compelled to 0:16:27.040 --> 0:16:30.680 go back through their own information in their own cases 0:16:31.080 --> 0:16:34.000 and try to find something, try to find something that 0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:36.680 was missing before. I don't think it's in the city's 0:16:36.720 --> 0:16:39.320 best interest for that to happen either. I think that 0:16:39.640 --> 0:16:44.320 the important part of Atlanta Monster is not just whether 0:16:44.400 --> 0:16:48.160 or not Wayne Williams killed anybody. It's just the retelling 0:16:48.160 --> 0:16:50.880 of the story as a whole. Just like I had 0:16:50.920 --> 0:16:53.560 never heard this story, there were plenty of other people 0:16:53.560 --> 0:16:55.760 who had never heard the story too, even my parents. 0:16:55.760 --> 0:16:58.160 They were around in Atlanta at this time, but I've 0:16:58.200 --> 0:17:00.200 never been told this story, and they remember did it 0:17:00.240 --> 0:17:03.520 way differently. They didn't have all the facts, they only 0:17:03.560 --> 0:17:05.719 were They were limited to what they saw on the news. 0:17:06.320 --> 0:17:08.320 And my dad told me he didn't have a TV 0:17:08.480 --> 0:17:12.159 in his in his apartment, so he only saw the 0:17:12.200 --> 0:17:15.560 news at dunkin Donuts or something so so much it's 0:17:15.560 --> 0:17:18.680 always archived stuff we're going through. But who all saw that? 0:17:19.320 --> 0:17:22.960 I mean not everybody, to be honest. It's night one. Yeah, 0:17:23.000 --> 0:17:25.320 I mean just just look at look at your life today. 0:17:25.760 --> 0:17:27.399 You know, if you if you're you get busy for 0:17:27.440 --> 0:17:29.359 a few days and you don't watch the six o'clock 0:17:29.359 --> 0:17:31.560 news and o'clock news, you're not up to date on 0:17:31.600 --> 0:17:33.960 everything that's happening. And we have the internet, so you 0:17:34.000 --> 0:17:36.960 think about in in the late seventies, you know, you 0:17:36.960 --> 0:17:39.520 you missed the evening news and for a couple of 0:17:39.560 --> 0:17:42.119 days you're completely outdated. So if you don't have a TV. 0:17:42.640 --> 0:17:45.159 So yeah, just it's a it's a lot. You know, 0:17:45.200 --> 0:17:49.000 the flow of information isn't uh the way the way 0:17:48.960 --> 0:17:50.840 it is now is completely different than how it was then. 0:17:50.880 --> 0:17:53.760 And you know, people are gonna hear this story through 0:17:53.800 --> 0:17:56.040 a lens or you know, through a different I guess 0:17:56.119 --> 0:17:57.840 lens may not be the right word, but you know 0:17:57.880 --> 0:18:00.480 they're going to hear this story, um, and it's going 0:18:00.520 --> 0:18:02.479 to come with a twist on on it based off 0:18:02.480 --> 0:18:04.600 who's telling it to you. You know, based on your community, 0:18:04.600 --> 0:18:08.000 based on your age, um. But I think overall the 0:18:08.119 --> 0:18:10.640 you know the good question, I think that you know 0:18:10.960 --> 0:18:13.520 you answered it perfectly. I mean, it's a case closed, 0:18:13.560 --> 0:18:16.199 like we got our guy, and we're not going to 0:18:16.240 --> 0:18:19.760 go revis anything, especially if it's going to kick us 0:18:19.760 --> 0:18:21.880 some dusted we don't want to get into. That's that's 0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:25.720 the opinion of local and federal law enforcement. Yeah, I 0:18:25.720 --> 0:18:28.159 think to law enforcement, this is done. And if you 0:18:28.200 --> 0:18:32.760 remember from the last two episodes, um, every child's case 0:18:33.000 --> 0:18:36.119 that they thought was connected in a compelling way with 0:18:36.240 --> 0:18:39.440 trace evidence and circumstantial evidence, they brought those up in trial. 0:18:40.280 --> 0:18:42.800 So though it didn't maybe make the news that way, 0:18:42.800 --> 0:18:45.240 and many people don't think that the kids were tried 0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:49.000 and they and they weren't. Their cases were tried, um, 0:18:49.040 --> 0:18:51.679 but they still brought those up. So I don't know 0:18:51.720 --> 0:18:55.760 why they would ever reopen these cases. I don't think 0:18:55.760 --> 0:18:58.400 they're going to get more evidence on those cases. That's 0:18:58.440 --> 0:19:01.159 why they were so flimsy. But they connected in some 0:19:01.240 --> 0:19:04.560 way through you know, fibers to the two cases they 0:19:04.560 --> 0:19:08.000 had more evidence for, and that's Nathaniel Cater and Jimmy Raypain, right. 0:19:08.000 --> 0:19:09.359 And I think I think The problem that I have, 0:19:09.480 --> 0:19:11.200 and then maybe some of the listeners have as well, 0:19:11.400 --> 0:19:13.879 is that they didn't just close the cases that were 0:19:13.880 --> 0:19:16.240 brought up in court. And there is the you know, 0:19:16.600 --> 0:19:19.600 elephant in the room. So those parents, you know, not 0:19:19.640 --> 0:19:21.800 only was there a child never brought up in court, 0:19:21.920 --> 0:19:23.960 but you know, they were never never had there was 0:19:24.040 --> 0:19:26.320 never a trial, there was never anything. Those cases were 0:19:26.359 --> 0:19:29.560 just closed. And I think that's where you know, the 0:19:29.600 --> 0:19:33.359 big issue lies. So, uh, if there was going to 0:19:33.359 --> 0:19:35.720 be an effort to look into something, I think it 0:19:35.760 --> 0:19:38.359 should be into the cases that were not brought up 0:19:38.359 --> 0:19:41.760 in court that we aren't so sure that he did. 0:19:42.400 --> 0:19:43.919 But I think we've said it before that you know, 0:19:44.160 --> 0:19:48.280 if you close twelve cases and there are thirty, there's 0:19:48.280 --> 0:19:50.560 still an Atlanta child writer out there. And I think 0:19:50.600 --> 0:19:52.399 that's what the city was dealing with at the time. 0:19:52.480 --> 0:19:55.679 So I think they politically, you know, they were motivated 0:19:55.800 --> 0:19:58.840 to close you know, the majority of these cases, which 0:19:58.880 --> 0:20:01.679 they did, and I think there that's where the injustice 0:20:01.840 --> 0:20:05.000 came in. Yeah, so I guess that's not necessarily opening 0:20:05.080 --> 0:20:10.600 up Wayne Williams case. Again, it's like those outlying undetermined cases, right, 0:20:10.600 --> 0:20:12.840 but they would have to admit that those outlying on 0:20:12.920 --> 0:20:16.639 determined cases. UM, we're not coming by Wayne Williams, and 0:20:16.640 --> 0:20:19.879 they've already closed and attributed over twelve that were not 0:20:19.960 --> 0:20:22.520 brought into court, and that, you know, there's the there's 0:20:22.520 --> 0:20:26.880 a difference. Yeah. I would love to just view all 0:20:26.920 --> 0:20:29.679 the stuff that never got presented to the public, because 0:20:29.720 --> 0:20:31.280 I mean, this went on for a couple of years, 0:20:31.320 --> 0:20:33.479 and I think that is kind of the unknown question 0:20:33.520 --> 0:20:36.320 of what happened within the task force, within ap D, 0:20:36.480 --> 0:20:40.160 within the FBI, What leads did they get and not follow, 0:20:40.680 --> 0:20:43.280 What kind of conversations did they have if they were 0:20:43.320 --> 0:20:47.600 talking to Tom Tarrell and investigating the sex ring, what 0:20:47.680 --> 0:20:52.440 was that investigation like and how come it was not presented. Hi, 0:20:52.600 --> 0:20:56.520 my name is Kelly. It was listening to another true 0:20:56.560 --> 0:21:02.199 crime podcasts and it was about the freeway sansom slangs 0:21:02.200 --> 0:21:05.520 that happened in the seventies. UM there were six young 0:21:05.640 --> 0:21:10.680 DC females who disappeared and were found off the side 0:21:10.680 --> 0:21:14.800 of freeways, um strangled and dead and raped. UM. This 0:21:15.000 --> 0:21:18.800 was prior to the Atlanta Monsters appearance. But the link 0:21:18.960 --> 0:21:22.720 that was most intriguing to me is that in both cases, 0:21:22.800 --> 0:21:28.040 these were young children from enfranchise communities who also had 0:21:28.160 --> 0:21:33.520 green carpet fibers found on them and on their clothing 0:21:33.680 --> 0:21:36.560 and possessions. So I just thought that that was a 0:21:36.600 --> 0:21:40.200 really interesting link. I'm not sure if anyone has investigated 0:21:40.280 --> 0:21:44.280 the links between these two serial murders, but UM, I 0:21:44.440 --> 0:21:47.080 thought that I would call in in the off chance 0:21:47.160 --> 0:21:49.920