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Speaker 1: It was Christmas break nineteen seventy five, and all of

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Speaker 1: my sisters were home and we were having a great

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Speaker 1: time anticipating Santa Claus coming. One of the girls in

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Speaker 1: our neighborhood, Penny, her grandmama, came into town and she

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Speaker 1: was only going to be able to stay a couple

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Speaker 1: of days and then she had to leave to go

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Speaker 1: to another state to see other grandchildren. So Penny got

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Speaker 1: some of her gifts early. One of the things that

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Speaker 1: she got was a pet rock. We all were freaking

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Speaker 1: out over this thing. It was all the buzz. So

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Speaker 1: she was standing in her front yard showing everybody. Now,

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Speaker 1: she wouldn't let anybody touch it, but she would let

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Speaker 1: us look at it, and you know, we were just

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Speaker 1: captivated by it. A little while later, you know, we

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Speaker 1: all went on our separate ways and I'm standing in

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Speaker 1: my driveway just shooting baskets at the basketball goal, and

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Speaker 1: she walks up and she says, hey, do you want him?

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Speaker 1: And she had the pet rock in the little crate

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Speaker 1: and I was like what, and she said, yeah, you

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Speaker 1: can have him, and I went yes, And then she

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Speaker 1: cracked up laughing and said, hey, it's not a lie.

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Speaker 1: I had my fingers crossed behind my back and then

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Speaker 1: she's scurried off like the rat she was. And I'm

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Speaker 1: telling you, that's the first time in my life I

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Speaker 1: had really felt just boon swaggled. I was like, how

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Speaker 1: in the world would you just walk up to somebody

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Speaker 1: who was minding their own business light of them, and

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Speaker 1: then what is this thing about fingers crossed behind your back?

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Speaker 1: It's somehow not a lie. So I went in the

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Speaker 1: house and of course told my sister Shelley, who said,

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Speaker 1: what now, Like she was so mad. She always had

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Speaker 1: my back, still does, and she said, don't you worry

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Speaker 1: about that pet rock. We got pets of our own

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Speaker 1: and they fly. Well, I didn't know what she was

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Speaker 1: talking about, but she wanted to take some tomatoes and

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Speaker 1: get them back by throwing tomatoes at their house. That's

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Speaker 1: a whole nother podcast, But I'm just telling you, people

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Speaker 1: will lie, and people will have excuses for lying, and

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Speaker 1: people will have these little ways of getting out of

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Speaker 1: it really being a lie. There is nobody better to

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Speaker 1: help us navigate this than the human light detector. Susan Constantine.

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Speaker 1: She literally wrote the book The Complete Idiot's Guide to

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Speaker 1: Reading Body Language. You've seen her on Doctor Phil, CNN,

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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, Good Morning America. She is renowned. She is

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Speaker 1: revered with her expertise in body language. She even developed

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Speaker 1: a unique way that she detects deception. She uses a

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Speaker 1: combination of human behavior analysis, statement analysis, and voice stress

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Speaker 1: analysis to identify deception, and she does it using three

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Speaker 1: separate experts at the same time, so she knows if

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Speaker 1: all three of them agree that there is deception, she

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Speaker 1: would stake her reputation on it. She has worked with

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Speaker 1: government officials, politicians, law firms, corporations, and celebrities. She has

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Speaker 1: over a thousand hits on TV, print media, and radio.

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Speaker 1: Susan Welcome, Welcome, design Saven.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you so much for inviting me, my friend.

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Speaker 1: Are you kidding listen? I got to tell everybody before

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Speaker 1: we get started. One of my favorite exchanges that happened

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Speaker 1: at Crime Con Los Vegas was between you and my

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Speaker 1: son Huck. So Huck comes up to me at my

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Speaker 1: table and he's all excited and he said, Okay, tell

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Speaker 1: me who some of these people are. And I said, well,

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Speaker 1: you need to go right over there and meet that woman.

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Speaker 1: And I'm pointing to you at your table, and I said,

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Speaker 1: she's a line expert, and he went, that is so cool.

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Speaker 1: So he goes over to introduce hisself while I'm finishing up,

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Speaker 1: and as y'all are talking, I walk up and I said, yeah,

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Speaker 1: isn't this unbelievable. She can tell whether you're telling the

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Speaker 1: truth in seven seconds. Well, Huck turns to me and goes, what,

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Speaker 1: And I said, yeah, she's a line expert deception. He went,

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Speaker 1: I thought you meant she was a line like the

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Speaker 1: King of the Jungle expert. I said, baby, why would

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Speaker 1: a line expert the King of the Jungle line be here?

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Speaker 1: He goes, I didn't know. I figured Tiger King. Maybe

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Speaker 1: they had broadened it. He goes, but listen, you need

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Speaker 1: to make somebody aware that. You can't just have me

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Speaker 1: walk up to somebody and start talking and she's gonna

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Speaker 1: know if I'm lying within seven seconds. And I said,

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Speaker 1: you're at crime con and these are all experts. Why

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Speaker 1: would you lie to any of them? And he said,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm a man, she's a beautiful woman.

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Speaker 1: A lie I could come up.

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Speaker 2: I never heard that story before.

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, And then you and I started laughing.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I guess I made it more clear

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Speaker 1: to him exactly what it was that you do, because

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Speaker 1: you know, he's going into this field and he's gonna

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Speaker 1: have lies told to him every day all day, so

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Speaker 1: he needs to be able to pick up on him

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Speaker 1: as an investigator. Right. I took a picture of the

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Speaker 1: two of you. It is the cutest picture ever, and

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Speaker 1: y'all are both like hmmm, like is somebody telling the truth.

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Speaker 1: It's just adorable. And you know, again, I appreciate you

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Speaker 1: taking time with both of my children, Carolina and Huck

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Speaker 1: and giving them some of the you know, skills and understanding. Hey,

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Speaker 1: y'all go read this book. Y'all take this online class,

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Speaker 1: because if you can read body language and understand statement

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Speaker 1: analysis in this business, it will serve you. Well.

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Speaker 2: Yes, it's a you know, it's a technique that is

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Speaker 2: a trained process. It's not something to where you're making

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Speaker 2: these prejudgments. In fact, when I'm doing training classes, Cheryl,

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Speaker 2: I raise I have people raise their hands as how

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Speaker 2: many of you think you're really good at detecting deception?

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Speaker 2: And all these people will raise their hands and it's

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Speaker 2: really interesting because really fifty people at most people at

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Speaker 2: fifty percent are best are able to really read people.

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Speaker 2: But what they're really doing is they're their fault. They're

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Speaker 2: making some judgments about people and reading body language. And

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Speaker 2: at the level that I do it, and I know

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Speaker 2: you do too as well, Cheryl, it's a learned skill.

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Speaker 2: It's not a gut feeling. It's you have to really

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Speaker 2: do your your work and then test it down in

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Speaker 2: the field to make sure that you're accurate. And one

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Speaker 2: of the things that you pointed out was that the

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Speaker 2: methodology that I use, which is a three prong test,

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Speaker 2: and it just made perfect sense to me that if

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Speaker 2: a person was being deceptive and you can pick it

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Speaker 2: up in their nonverbals or their behavioral behavioral analysis, you

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Speaker 2: should be able to hear it in the vocal tremors

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Speaker 2: through voice stress analysis, and it should show up in

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Speaker 2: the language. So that's where I pulled that together, because

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Speaker 2: we are we have multiple channels of communication, both verbal

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Speaker 2: and nonverbal. When you're lying nonverbally, are lying, and you'll

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Speaker 2: see it in the nonverbals, and you also see it

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Speaker 2: in the verbals and in the language and bingo. It

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Speaker 2: really works and it increases the level of validity therefore

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Speaker 2: gives you a little bit more positivity that the person

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Speaker 2: could be lying to at a higher level of accuracy.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, and you know the institute, that's how we work.

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Speaker 1: And it's one of those deals where everybody needs to

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Speaker 1: stay in their own lane and under their own expertise.

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Speaker 1: And it gets rid of tunnel vision because if four

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Speaker 1: people give me the same suspect and I don't have

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Speaker 1: that suspect, what did I miss? What am I not

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Speaker 1: looking at correctly? Or I just need to go back.

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Speaker 1: That's all there is to it, because I'm going to

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Speaker 1: trust those other four people. So I think the way

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Speaker 1: you're doing it is just brilliant. But before we go

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Speaker 1: any further, I want people to hear how you got

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Speaker 1: into this business, because honey, it's not only unique, it

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Speaker 1: is unbelievable.

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Speaker 2: But you know what, I didn't really want to go

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Speaker 2: through this, but it was interesting. At fifteen years old,

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Speaker 2: I was asked to go babysit with a girlfriend of

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Speaker 2: mine and in the area that she lived in was

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Speaker 2: very highly stressed, it with very lots of racial tension.

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Speaker 2: There was around the time, of course, when Martin Luther

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Speaker 2: King had it was killed, and so she lived in

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Speaker 2: this area. She was like one of the very few

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Speaker 2: white families in this in this most African American environment.

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Speaker 2: But they were the strong little Baptist family, and so

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Speaker 2: I felt safe going over there. And they had a

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Speaker 2: nice house and his parents, her parents were great. But

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Speaker 2: my mom said, I don't know, I don't like you

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Speaker 2: going over there. It seems like a bad part of town.

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Speaker 2: And I'm going, oh, Mom, you know it's VICKI. They're

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Speaker 2: a nice family, et cetera, et cetera. So she says, well,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to tell you I don't like it, but

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Speaker 2: you know, just be careful and you know, look out.

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Speaker 2: So I did. So we went over there. I went

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Speaker 2: over there, and we went over to a babysit at

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Speaker 2: a girl's house around the corner. She had a four

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Speaker 2: year old son, and you know, nothing unusual. And my girlfriend,

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Speaker 2: out of nowhere, literally Eryl out of nowhere, looks at me.

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Speaker 2: She goes, if you were if somebody were to come

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Speaker 2: in here and kill us, do you know, if you'd

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Speaker 2: go to heaven? And I was like, oh, dear God,

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Speaker 2: all I could think about was going back home.

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Speaker 1: And good back.

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Speaker 2: My mom says to she was like, oh dear God,

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Speaker 2: help me. This is not really what I wanted to do. Here.

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Speaker 2: So anyway, I was like, you know, yes, you know,

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Speaker 2: I basically gave her any answer she wanted to hear,

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Speaker 2: just so we could get finished babysitting. And then we

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Speaker 2: went back over to her house and nothing happened, nothing

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Speaker 2: was unusual. And then a couple of weeks later, we're

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Speaker 2: invited to go babysit again. And when we went over

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Speaker 2: to go babysit again, we got a phone call right

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Speaker 2: before we're supposed to go over there and the lady says,

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Speaker 2: don't bother coming over, and my date stood me up,

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Speaker 2: and so we didn't go. We were all bummed out.

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Speaker 2: And of course, you know, making fifty cents an hour

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Speaker 2: babysitting was our roller skating money, right, so that was

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Speaker 2: like big bucks for us. And we were really disappointed.

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Speaker 2: And it was in the summertime, so we're sitting on

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Speaker 2: the porch and then up come drives up at dusk,

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Speaker 2: this white man and it had carpet acres written on

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Speaker 2: the side of it. And this guy gets out of

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Speaker 2: the van after he parks right in front of my

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Speaker 2: friend's house, peels off down the street and he's looking

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Speaker 2: inside these cars and he's kind of jiggling in the

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Speaker 2: door knobs and everything, and I'm like, just something on

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Speaker 2: my hair. Stood, I'm going a danger, danger, danger, you know.

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Speaker 2: So I got up and I went in the house

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Speaker 2: and peering outside the windows, and then he kind of disappears. Well,

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Speaker 2: to top it all off, at the end of the

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Speaker 2: street ends up being a graveyard. So I'm just trying

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Speaker 2: to set the scene for you in Zone seven. So

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Speaker 2: anyway disappears and then out of nowhere, I mean it

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Speaker 2: must have been a half hour or so, maybe forty

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Speaker 2: five minutes, this guy comes running out between the house,

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Speaker 2: my house, a friend's house, in the house next door,

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Speaker 2: and it's that guy. So he stops at the back

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Speaker 2: of the van. He looks right over at me because

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Speaker 2: we're literally only feet apart. See this guy, He sees me,

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Speaker 2: and then he opens up the back of the van,

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Speaker 2: throws something in it, and then peers off down the street. Well,

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Speaker 2: it didn't take very long after that that we ended

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Speaker 2: up seeing helicopters flying overhead, and remember the graveyard iss

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Speaker 2: just houses away, taking these big, huge spotlights and going

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Speaker 2: through the neighborhood, and then policemen were walking police dogs,

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Speaker 2: and he said, hey, have you kids seen anything? And

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Speaker 2: I said, well, guy, I saw this guy. He had

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Speaker 2: you know, described him totally. His hair is what was

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Speaker 2: written on the van. You know what he was doing,

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Speaker 2: his body language, you know how he was acting very suspicious,

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Speaker 2: and we said, what happened? She says, He says, a

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Speaker 2: woman was just murdered around the corner. It was the

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Speaker 2: house we were babysitting for. So anyway, it was the

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Speaker 2: lady were babysitting for. So the story is that she

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Speaker 2: was a bookkeeper for carpet acres. The boyfriend was trying

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Speaker 2: to get her to embezzle money from this company because

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Speaker 2: it was a parent owned company and he was one

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Speaker 2: of the sons, and she wouldn't do it, and so

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Speaker 2: he got ticked off and he came on to her,

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Speaker 2: strangled her, and then decided to kill her. And he

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Speaker 2: killed her with twenty one times with a pairing knife.

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Speaker 2: So even to this day, Cheryl, I will not leave

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Speaker 2: a knife out on my counter. So I had to

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Speaker 2: testify court. I was one of the primary witnesses and

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Speaker 2: had to testify. And you can imagine how that was

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Speaker 2: at fifteen years old.

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Speaker 1: Fifteen years old.

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Speaker 2: Fifteen and then anyway, he was busted second degree murder

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Speaker 2: and then he appealed it when I was seventeen years

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Speaker 2: old and had to go back to court testify again,

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Speaker 2: and then bingo, he got second degree murder again. So anyway,

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Speaker 2: that's what's my I think, my lead in into this

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Speaker 2: crazy world of true crime. And I was actually a

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Speaker 2: witness to it.

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Speaker 1: Well that is quite an introduction to this world, ma'am.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I had never had any idea where that was

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Speaker 2: going to take me, so I just really had a

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Speaker 2: real desire for it. I thought it was just very interesting,

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Speaker 2: kind of put it back in the back burner, was

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Speaker 2: into a different career for a long time, and then

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Speaker 2: I decided I wanted to took a dig a different route.

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Speaker 2: And here's how it began, Cheryl is that I I

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Speaker 2: started off as doing image consulting for attorneys, and I

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Speaker 2: got a certificate for executive image consulting and I ended

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Speaker 2: up reading a after I graduated, reading an article about

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Speaker 2: a public defender that were ward warping their clients for trial,

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Speaker 2: and I thought, wow, this is kind of cool. I

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Speaker 2: don't think anybody ever thought about this before. And it

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Speaker 2: just so happened that my mother had a nonprofit organization

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Speaker 2: for people that have gone through personal tragedy, and we

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Speaker 2: had an entire clothing center. So I pitched an idea

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Speaker 2: to the public Defender's office and then loaded up the

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Speaker 2: truck and went down there, and I said, I pitched

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Speaker 2: the idea to the public Defender's office the very same

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Speaker 2: courthouse where George Zimmerman was tried and convicted, I mean

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Speaker 2: not convicted, but was where the trial was. So anyway,

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Speaker 2: I had a clothing center in there, and then the

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Speaker 2: attorneys would reach out to me and have me wardrobe

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Speaker 2: and start to coach some of their clients based on

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Speaker 2: what I learned in that course. But that was only

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Speaker 2: the beginning. And then the public defender, one of them

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Speaker 2: took interested in meet Jeffrey Leichel and said, Hey, I

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Speaker 2: would love for you to come and watch me pick

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Speaker 2: a jury. Maybe you can just watch and analyze the

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Speaker 2: people or the potential jurors. So I said, you think

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Speaker 2: I would be good at that? Because I don't think

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Speaker 2: you'd be good at I think you'd be fabulous at it.

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Speaker 1: So I said absolutely.

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Speaker 2: In the courtroom, and I helped him to de select jurors.

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Speaker 2: I didn't know anything about jury selection, but it just

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Speaker 2: so happened that just a few months after that, he

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Speaker 2: invited me to a conference and there was a booth

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Speaker 2: there that was by Jury Quest and says, how to

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Speaker 2: identify jurors through through This new program was an AI

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Speaker 2: program and it was how to identify dangerous jurors scientific

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Speaker 2: jury selection. So anyway, I told him what I was doing,

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Speaker 2: and they thought that was pretty cool, and I said, well,

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Speaker 2: I think what you guys are doing pretty cool, And

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Speaker 2: before you know it, I'm hired now as the Florida

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Speaker 2: area manager as a trial consultant. And the trainer who

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Speaker 2: trained me did the I did the retrial for the

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Speaker 2: Andrea Yates case, the retrial for where she was found

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Speaker 2: guilty by reason of insanity. So anyway, that's what I

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Speaker 2: did for quite a long time. And then during that

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Speaker 2: time I went back to college and both of my

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Speaker 2: two kids and I were all going to school at

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Speaker 2: the same time. I was in my early forties and

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Speaker 2: I went to you know, went back to college. I

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Speaker 2: got my master's degree in psychology, all the while getting

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Speaker 2: multiple certifications and everything you can imagine from investigative interview

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Speaker 2: into statement analysis, to micro expression training to criminal intelligence training,

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Speaker 2: you name it, and I still continue. I mean it

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Speaker 2: is an ongoing process. So I got pretty well known

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Speaker 2: for what I was doing, and then out of nowhere,

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Speaker 2: I got a phone call from a reporter in Orlando

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Speaker 2: and said, hey, listen, there's a big trial that's coming up.

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Speaker 2: You might want to sit in on it. I think

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Speaker 2: it's going to be very interesting. I said, really, He says, well,

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Speaker 2: it was about a young girl who allegedly had killed

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Speaker 2: her daughter, young daughter. It was Casey Anthony.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say that was quite an opportunity.

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Speaker 2: So I ended up sitting in there for the entire

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Speaker 2: time as an analyst. And if you can just imagine,

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Speaker 2: it was almost kind of like you had stadium seating upstairs,

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Speaker 2: and literally anyone in everyone were there, from Perraldo to

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Speaker 2: Nancy would co there, Nancy and war own Pot outside there,

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Speaker 2: and then Judge Jeanine Piro and of course inside Edition

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Speaker 2: and Court TV. Back then it was called I think

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Speaker 2: in Session with Ryan Smith and Vinnie Politan and you

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Speaker 2: name it. I mean, everybody and anybody that was there

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Speaker 2: in this business and true crime were there. So I

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Speaker 2: was able to connect with all of them. Before you

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Speaker 2: knew it, I was did over four hundred and some

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Speaker 2: odd hits during that trial so you can imagine I

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Speaker 2: was being flown from Good Morning America to the Today

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Speaker 2: showed an inside edition and you name it, and that's

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Speaker 2: what springboarded it.

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Speaker 1: But you know, Casey Anthony is one of those folks

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Speaker 1: that body language experts should study. She to me was

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Speaker 1: almost cartoon like at times, like she would laugh inappropriately,

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Speaker 1: she would have that smile. She would have her hair

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Speaker 1: in a ponytail, she would take it down, she would

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Speaker 1: have long hair. Some days. She would almost flirt with

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Speaker 1: her attorneys. She would do her hands in an unusual manner.

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Speaker 1: It was almost like sometimes she was aware the jury

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Speaker 1: was there, and sometimes she almost acted like she didn't

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Speaker 1: know they were even important to her.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to tell you when I realized she really

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Speaker 2: did it. There was a human decomposition expert that testified

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Speaker 2: regarding the odor that was in the back of the

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Speaker 2: trunkt You remember that.

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Speaker 1: I do absolutely. She said it was rotten pizza.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, robbing pizza, and it was like Maggot's or something.

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Speaker 2: But anyway, when they opened up the trunk that this,

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Speaker 2: you know, this odor just was overwhelming. Right that moment,

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Speaker 2: when this expert stated that, I looked over at Casey

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Speaker 2: and she showed a micro expression of disgust. Now, disgust

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Speaker 2: is like if you take an onion, you put it

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Speaker 2: in front of your nose, or you're making a pile

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Speaker 2: of poo and you just take a big whiff. What

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Speaker 2: do you do your nose crunches up, your eyes narrow. Well,

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Speaker 2: that is a sensory part of the sensory of the

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Speaker 2: human body. Right, she recalled that odor. She recalled it,

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Speaker 2: So that's why she showed that micro expression and discussed

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Speaker 2: other than fear, horror, sadness, none of that. It was disgusted.

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Speaker 2: I was like, oh my god. In fact, I think

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Speaker 2: I was on Nancy's show and I think that's when

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Speaker 2: I stated what I saw that day. But that will

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Speaker 2: never leave me. But she was different on the camera

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Speaker 2: versus off the camera, and she did flirt a lot.

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Speaker 2: She had those big, huge fanby eyes. She was very attractive.

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Speaker 2: So the interesting thing was they seated her directly across

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Speaker 2: from the jury, which is usually very unusual. She just

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Speaker 2: be on the side, but the jurors were able to

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Speaker 2: just watch her all day long, so it created a

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Speaker 2: sense of familiarity, likability.

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Speaker 1: Well, your insight has helped me because, like I said,

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Speaker 1: earlier part of what she would do never seemed authentic. Well,

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Speaker 1: now I understand what was happening. The focus group said this,

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Speaker 1: So you kind of had to be a chameleon. They're

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Speaker 1: telling you to do this. So okay, I'll wear softer

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Speaker 1: colors and put my hair up and take notes. And

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Speaker 1: again that wasn't.

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Speaker 2: Her no now, and it's very strategic. I mean a

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Speaker 2: lot of people will always wonder about that, you know,

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Speaker 2: when you look at the color, the fabric, the hair,

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Speaker 2: how they wear their hair, the ruffle on the blouse,

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Speaker 2: the demeanor, the flat affect, and at times where she's

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Speaker 2: off camera and then she's smiling and she got the

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Speaker 2: googly eyes with Jose bias. So you know, when you're

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Speaker 2: in the courtroom, and I know Nancy would have said

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Speaker 2: the same thing, it's a whole different picture. You see

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Speaker 2: a lot of things that people don't see even if

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Speaker 2: they're on watching it on court a court TV or

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Speaker 2: in session.

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Speaker 1: Well, let's talk a little bit about facial expressions. So

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Speaker 1: you mentioned the eyes narrowing. I've watched tons of people

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Speaker 1: just clenched their jaw when they don't want to say

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Speaker 1: something or they're getting you know, more angry about the

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Speaker 1: line of questioning. Things they do with their mouth, you know,

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Speaker 1: covering their mouth with their hand or whatever, tell us

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Speaker 1: some of the facial expressions that you try your best

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Speaker 1: to look for hone in on depending on who you're

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Speaker 1: working for.

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Speaker 2: The big thing is to look for anomalies. So you're

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Speaker 2: trying to determine the person's normal baseline, which is very

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Speaker 2: investigative one on one, how the person normally responds well

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Speaker 2: in a courtroom. They're going to be there's going to

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00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:59,320
Speaker 2: be high anxiety anyway, So you can't really norm that person,

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00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:02,440
Speaker 2: but you can look for patterns and behavior over time.

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00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:06,399
Speaker 2: So what I do is I tie the stimulus, what

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00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:10,080
Speaker 2: is the stimulus? What was the question the probative question,

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Speaker 2: And I'm watching the demeanor morph right. That can be

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00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:17,359
Speaker 2: either an expert witness, It could be, you know, someone

400
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:20,119
Speaker 2: in the jury box. It could be the defendant. So

401
00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:25,400
Speaker 2: I'm looking at what are they exhibiting when they hear

402
00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:28,600
Speaker 2: something that would have created what we call cognitive load,

403
00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:34,040
Speaker 2: meaning that they know they're they're percolating different thoughts, different ideas,

404
00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:37,520
Speaker 2: or they're trying to if it was a person and

405
00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:40,159
Speaker 2: they were talking to one on one, they're trying to

406
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:42,600
Speaker 2: tell a story differently from what they know and they

407
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,760
Speaker 2: deviate from the truth. And when they do that, you're

408
00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:48,560
Speaker 2: going to see a shift in their demeanor. So that

409
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:50,960
Speaker 2: can be in any way. It could be an eye rolling,

410
00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:53,080
Speaker 2: It could be in a side smirk in their mouth,

411
00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:55,760
Speaker 2: which is contempt. It can be a shift in their

412
00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:58,520
Speaker 2: body language where they shift their body language and they

413
00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:03,000
Speaker 2: point it towards the exit side. They could show pacifiers

414
00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:07,080
Speaker 2: where they're you know, rubbing their clothing or adjusting their clothing.

415
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:12,159
Speaker 2: Could be a smirk, it could be a gulp or

416
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:15,800
Speaker 2: a yawn, there's so many a micro shoulder shrug. But

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00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:19,280
Speaker 2: it's tied to a stimulus. Everything is tied to stimulus

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00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:22,159
Speaker 2: and it has to start within seven seconds. And the

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00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:25,240
Speaker 2: reason why that is is that the rate of speed

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00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:28,760
Speaker 2: in which we talk, and we the words that we

421
00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:30,680
Speaker 2: use in the rate of we talk f one hundred

422
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:33,720
Speaker 2: and twenty five to one hundred fifty words per minute.

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Speaker 2: We know that from stenographer research. So when you get

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00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:42,240
Speaker 2: beyond that one hundred and fifty words, your mind is

425
00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:44,840
Speaker 2: going to go on to something else, right, So it's

426
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:48,720
Speaker 2: tied to the original stimulus. Let's say, you know, we

427
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:53,520
Speaker 2: ask murdoch, Did you kill your wife? You might say no.

428
00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:56,200
Speaker 2: Then you ask a question, do you know who killed

429
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Speaker 2: his wife? No? Did you have anything to do with

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00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:02,439
Speaker 2: a disappear or the you know or the murder? Or

431
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:06,240
Speaker 2: know who may have murdered your wife? And then he shifts,

432
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:08,960
Speaker 2: he moves, and then he tries to over explain. He

433
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:11,600
Speaker 2: licks his lips. You see him rolling his tongue around

434
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:13,800
Speaker 2: the inside of his mouth a lot. He might show

435
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:17,160
Speaker 2: some crocodile tears. So now see now how you see

436
00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:19,800
Speaker 2: how it's tied to that stimulus. Everything has to be

437
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 2: tied to that stimulus. So that's how you know that

438
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 2: that person's either lying to you or they're being deceptive,

439
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:28,439
Speaker 2: and it usually happens within seven seconds. Then they happen

440
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:32,160
Speaker 2: in clusters. If it's just one thing, they rub their nose,

441
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:36,680
Speaker 2: they stroke their clothing, they wring their hands, they tap

442
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:39,880
Speaker 2: their feet. It's really not an indicator of anything other

443
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:43,520
Speaker 2: than maybe anxiety. But if it's tied to a stimulus,

444
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:46,640
Speaker 2: a probative questions whether they're trying to derail or try

445
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:48,879
Speaker 2: to move you off from the truth and tell you

446
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 2: something that's different from what actually occurred, you're going to

447
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:53,439
Speaker 2: see them in clusters. You'll see it and hear it

448
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:59,040
Speaker 2: in their voice inflection. You'll pause and hesitation, stammers, stops

449
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:04,680
Speaker 2: and starts, yawning, gulping, drinking water, or it could be

450
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:07,200
Speaker 2: in their language. Their language will show the same thing

451
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:10,479
Speaker 2: that pauses the hesitations, that stops the stammers, and then

452
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:12,240
Speaker 2: you'll see it in their body language. You'll see it

453
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:16,320
Speaker 2: happen in a cluster. So there's not one indicator of deception.

454
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:19,639
Speaker 2: It has to be a multiple things, a minimum of

455
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:22,320
Speaker 2: two to three that happened within the first seven seconds

456
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:24,639
Speaker 2: after the stimulus has been delivered.

457
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:27,240
Speaker 1: Some of the things that you were looking for and

458
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:31,760
Speaker 1: picking up on happened lightning quick. You know. I watched

459
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 1: a comedian one time. He was talking about his wife

460
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 1: always knows when he's lying because he talks higher. So

461
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 1: if she said, you bought a new golf club, didn't you?

462
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:44,920
Speaker 1: What are you talking about? And he goes, but when

463
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:47,639
Speaker 1: I'm being romantic, you know, there's more bass in my voice,

464
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:51,439
Speaker 1: like hey baby, So she always knows on his tone

465
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 1: in his pitch. And I thought that was kind of funny,

466
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:56,040
Speaker 1: and then I thought, you know what, that rings kind

467
00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:58,879
Speaker 1: of true. And then I know, like in law enforcement.

468
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:03,400
Speaker 1: You can always tell if there's a little heightened anxiety

469
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 1: because it sounds like they're running even though they're driving

470
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 1: the car. You can hear that breath. You know, I'm

471
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:11,560
Speaker 1: now on Stonewall Avenue, I'm turning on b Stree Street,

472
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:15,639
Speaker 1: and that you know that breath comes. So you're looking

473
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,760
Speaker 1: for the facial expressions and the voice, the tone of

474
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 1: the pitch, and then you're listening for statements, so you're

475
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:25,280
Speaker 1: looking for the number three and left and repeating words

476
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 1: and self sentenceoring. You're doing all of that at one time,

477
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 1: which again is extraordinary.

478
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's why it's so important. And I tell

479
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:35,480
Speaker 2: attorneys they can't do this all on their own. They

480
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:38,400
Speaker 2: really need to have a person that is trained, that's

481
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,680
Speaker 2: there on their on their team, next to them at

482
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:45,200
Speaker 2: the front table during the jury selection or watching throughout

483
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 2: the trial to pick up on these different types of movements.

484
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 2: And you picked up you know about the the high uh,

485
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:56,920
Speaker 2: the anxiety. When a person is feeling highly anxious, it's

486
00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,639
Speaker 2: like an anxiety attack. That's when they start to hyperventilate. Right.

487
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 2: We all that with Murdoch a lot, right, he would

488
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 2: you know, or you'd hear somebody calling a nine to

489
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:07,320
Speaker 2: one one call. Oh my god, oh my god. You know,

490
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:08,919
Speaker 2: it's like, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god,

491
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 2: oh my god. Now, yes, that's true, someone would would

492
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:13,680
Speaker 2: do that. But then if you hear all of this

493
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:17,399
Speaker 2: in dead silence and you don't hear the breathing, and

494
00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:18,639
Speaker 2: then all of a sudden they pick it back up

495
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,199
Speaker 2: again and do the same thing. I mean, it is

496
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:29,199
Speaker 2: really remarkable the narcissism that these perpetrators are murderers have

497
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:33,720
Speaker 2: because they don't realize that we can analyze that stuff.

498
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,720
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm telling you, you know, go ahead and

499
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:39,439
Speaker 2: tell the story, because I'm going to throw you on

500
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:41,600
Speaker 2: the voice stressed analysis analyze. I'm going to find out

501
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 2: exactly where you're lying. I'm going to see it writing

502
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:45,440
Speaker 2: your language, and it's going to show right up in

503
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 2: your behavior. Slam dunk, You're busted.

504
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:56,359
Speaker 1: There's the old thing about if people look to the left,

505
00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:00,679
Speaker 1: they're being deceptive. I do that naturally, and it's so funny,

506
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,359
Speaker 1: like if I'm talking to you and you ask me

507
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:06,280
Speaker 1: something that I'm thinking, I tend to look off at

508
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:10,160
Speaker 1: almost a thirty degree angle. And I've often had people say, oh,

509
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 1: you're looking to the left. You're not telling the truth.

510
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:15,919
Speaker 1: And it's always funny to me when they think that's

511
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:17,639
Speaker 1: the only thing you need to look at, and you

512
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 1: haven't even, like you said, do the baseline. You hadn't

513
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:22,880
Speaker 1: watched me at all. But I read an article one

514
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 1: time where people said, that's what Jackie Kennedy would do.

515
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:28,920
Speaker 1: She would look at almost a thirty degree angle away

516
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:32,440
Speaker 1: from people. She wouldn't look directly almost, And I thought, well,

517
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 1: I'm in good company, then I'll take that.

518
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 2: So Richard Bandler, John leval Ericson they developed this whole

519
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:48,240
Speaker 2: program called NLP Neural Linguistic Programming, and they're alleged research.

520
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 2: They found that if you moved your eyes up to

521
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 2: the right or the left, it would be between constructing

522
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 2: a lie or visualizing, and then if you look side

523
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 2: to side, that would be audit, which means you would

524
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:06,920
Speaker 2: recall a sound or recall a conversation versus fabricating that

525
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 2: you recalling a conversation or something that was auditory, and

526
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 2: looking down to the right or the left was really

527
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:16,200
Speaker 2: more processing. But anyway, to make a long story short,

528
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:19,800
Speaker 2: there's twenty two out of twenty three peer reviewed research

529
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 2: articles that debunk that entire science. So it is very improper.

530
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 2: In fact, law enforcements still use it. But what I

531
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 2: will tell you that it does it is helpful for

532
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 2: is it helps you to kind of know how that

533
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 2: person processes. So if they tend to look up, they're

534
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 2: more visual their auditory, they tend to look side to side.

535
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:40,200
Speaker 2: If they look down, they tend to be more processors.

536
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 2: And then you can use that as a way to communicate.

537
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 2: So if a person's looking up, you know that they're visualizes,

538
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 2: so you use words like ce focus, you know, recall

539
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 2: an image, et cetera. So you can kind of speak

540
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 2: their language. And you know, all this with investigative interview

541
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:00,120
Speaker 2: and they use a lot of this, but the the

542
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 2: actual whom John Levall and Ericson and Bandler's stuff is garbage.

543
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:10,479
Speaker 1: Well that's really good to know because I am extraordinarily visual.

544
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 1: So again that's why I look up and to the left. You, ma'am,

545
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 1: you have put together a solid all star team. You

546
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:23,720
Speaker 1: get to work with some of the best in the country.

547
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 1: So you've got Phil Waters, who is a masterful interrogator.

548
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 1: He had ninety six percent clear rate in over four

549
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 1: hundred murders when he was a detective. That ain't too shabby.

550
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 1: And then you've got Mark McLish, who was a statement

551
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 1: analyst whose book I consider a must. Again, when you

552
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:48,520
Speaker 1: talk about your team and you talk about three or

553
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:51,960
Speaker 1: four y'all working at the same time, it's not just hey,

554
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 1: me and some friends are getting together.

555
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 2: Now, so let me share with you how we do that.

556
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 2: So in the Michael Jackson case, the attorney had seen

557
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:02,240
Speaker 2: me on or TV and they wanted me to analyze

558
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 2: the deposition tapes of Wade Robson and James Safechuck regarding

559
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 2: the sexual allegations by Michael Jackson. Now here's is post

560
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:17,600
Speaker 2: after his death. They are now suing the estate and

561
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:20,959
Speaker 2: so they were weren't They weren't getting anywhere, So they

562
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,720
Speaker 2: wanted this documentary to come out never Land one and two,

563
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 2: and they wanted to show that, you know, if they're lying.

564
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:31,320
Speaker 2: They wanted to present that to Netflix to tell them that, listen,

565
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 2: you're putting on a program with to confirm liars or

566
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 2: not liars. So then what I do is I don't

567
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:40,720
Speaker 2: tell my team. And they keep in mind they have

568
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 2: their own businesses. They're trainers and experts on their own,

569
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 2: but I collectively pulled them together as people that I

570
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 2: use as my experts, who I use and who I've

571
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 2: been trained by. So I pulled them together and say,

572
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:55,760
Speaker 2: here's here's the case. We got a Michael Jackson case.

573
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:58,600
Speaker 2: I want you to analyze. Here's seven hours of deposition.

574
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 2: Here's the audio, here's the transcripts. I'll do the behavior

575
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:06,360
Speaker 2: analysis I want. Well, Mark didn't do this one, but

576
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 2: it was Bob Schaeffer. He's also on my team. He

577
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 2: is a trainer in statement analysis. I want you to

578
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 2: analyze all the statements. And then Jerry Krotti, who I

579
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:21,320
Speaker 2: used as he's an examiner, voice stress analysis examiner and trainer,

580
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 2: do your work, and then, you know, put your reports

581
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 2: together and then provide them for me. So I don't

582
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 2: put it all in one report. I give them three

583
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 2: separate reports. I don't ask them what they found. I

584
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 2: don't ask them what they think. I don't encourage them

585
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 2: to move one way or the other or slant it

586
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:42,520
Speaker 2: one way or another. But interestingly, how we all came

587
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 2: up with very similar results. So that's how I do that,

588
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 2: you know, and we've done that in a lot of

589
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 2: different cases. I found that it's very helpful because it

590
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 2: really removes a lot of cognitive buys in your own

591
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 2: personal buyas. Because frankly, I liked Michael Jackson. I saw

592
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 2: him in Sweden and so I mean I grew up

593
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 2: in you know, Grand Rapids, Michigan, outside of Detroit, so

594
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:05,240
Speaker 2: motion was huge. So I had to make sure that

595
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 2: I wasn't going to have my own biases interjected into

596
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 2: my analysis and slant it. And that's one thing that's

597
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:14,880
Speaker 2: that you know, people have to realize that what we're

598
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 2: doing is this is subjective analysis, right. It's based on science,

599
00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 2: and it's been you know, validated science, has been vetted

600
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:26,480
Speaker 2: in the field. But that examiner can switch it anyway

601
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 2: they wanted to go. When it comes to behavioral analysis,

602
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:31,320
Speaker 2: you can't do it with voice stress analysis, and you

603
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 2: can't change it with the language they use. So that's

604
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 2: why it's really important to do the three prong tests.

605
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:41,480
Speaker 1: And that's just solid investigative work right there to me,

606
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 1: because again, it takes away what you're saying, your bias.

607
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 1: It takes away putting on blinders where you're just adamant

608
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 1: that this person had to be the one to do it.

609
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 1: You don't have that. I mean, it removes those two

610
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 1: issues completely.

611
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, Cheryl, we had a case and I can't name

612
00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 2: it this as an active case, but we are all

613
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 2: analyzing and every single time everything came up deceptive, deceptive, deceptive, deceptive,

614
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:10,680
Speaker 2: and we examined and re examined and redid and we

615
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:13,319
Speaker 2: cut it apart and redid it, and every single time

616
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 2: said how many times do we need to tell you

617
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 2: your client's deceptive? And it's like, you know, and that

618
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 2: they would take that and go okay, hey, this is

619
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 2: what a good a lawyer would do is say, okay,

620
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:27,440
Speaker 2: now that I know that, I'm going to steer clear

621
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:30,440
Speaker 2: from that and I'm going to redirect it somewhere else.

622
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:36,080
Speaker 2: And that's where the trial strategy is very interesting. How

623
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:38,520
Speaker 2: you can use that actually is not a negative thing.

624
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:40,680
Speaker 2: It could be a positive thing. Knowing what to steer

625
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:43,680
Speaker 2: away from because you could, you know, your client could

626
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:47,759
Speaker 2: repeach you. You know, if you didn't provide them with

627
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 2: the truth, whether they like to hear it or not,

628
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:53,239
Speaker 2: then we're doing them a disservice and their client a disservice.

629
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:59,080
Speaker 1: And you know, it's funny. I have four sisters, but

630
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:05,239
Speaker 1: one sister, Sharon, she cannot hide how she feels on

631
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:08,480
Speaker 1: her face. And we all joke with her about you

632
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:12,240
Speaker 1: could never play poker professionally. You couldn't even play with us,

633
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:14,520
Speaker 1: you know. And there was a meme that I saw

634
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:16,719
Speaker 1: one time that I sent her, and I'm paraphrasing. I

635
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:19,279
Speaker 1: don't remember exactly what it said, but it was something like,

636
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 1: I didn't mean to say that so loud with my face.

637
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:27,839
Speaker 1: And that's Sharon. If she is happy or hurt or frustrated,

638
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:33,279
Speaker 1: or excited or scared or just anticipating with excitement, you

639
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:38,279
Speaker 1: know it immediately. So a lot of times in the

640
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:41,880
Speaker 1: family dynamic, if we're in a room and somebody says

641
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 1: something that might be controversial or might be yes or

642
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 1: no or whatever, I will find myself. I'll look to

643
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 1: her immediately. Then I've already read the room. I'm good.

644
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:54,480
Speaker 1: I know we we're either going to do it or

645
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:57,799
Speaker 1: not do it because she can't hide it, you know.

646
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:01,160
Speaker 1: And so when you work, I know you have worked

647
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:05,240
Speaker 1: some major, major cases you mentioned, you know, Jeffery Epstein

648
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 1: and Michael Jackson and Casey Anthony, George Zimmerman. But you

649
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:14,760
Speaker 1: have also done some things with public defenders and government

650
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:19,200
Speaker 1: officials and famous people. And here's one thing I wanted

651
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:22,920
Speaker 1: to make a real point about. And you don't have

652
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:28,600
Speaker 1: to name anybody, obviously, but if I were like Oprah famous,

653
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 1: I know why she only fools with Gail, because you

654
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:37,600
Speaker 1: really can't trust anybody else once you get to her level. Right, Like,

655
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:40,279
Speaker 1: you've got all this money, you've got all these famous

656
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:45,080
Speaker 1: connections with people, you do these magnificent things in the world.

657
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:47,759
Speaker 1: You can travel wherever you want. Of course, people are

658
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:50,600
Speaker 1: going to want to gravitate towards you. So to me,

659
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:56,600
Speaker 1: your job if you're somebody like j Lo. Okay, you, Susan,

660
00:36:56,880 --> 00:37:01,560
Speaker 1: go interview those dancers, you interview the's. You tell me

661
00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:05,360
Speaker 1: if there's somebody here that shouldn't be here, shouldn't be

662
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:07,480
Speaker 1: around me, isn't here for the right reason?

663
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 2: Yes? So, I mean, early on to your point. You

664
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:17,440
Speaker 2: remember the singer Kurk Cubine and his girlfriend, who is

665
00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:18,239
Speaker 2: Courtney Love.

666
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 1: Oh, yes, she's a singer too, exactly.

667
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 2: And she was my first client before actually really got

668
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:28,040
Speaker 2: into the field, and that was when I was doing

669
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 2: executive image consulting. I was called to prepare her for

670
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 2: her court trial. And but you know, it's interesting just

671
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:38,120
Speaker 2: watching the dynamics. When I showed up in a hotel

672
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:42,280
Speaker 2: room her assistant, it was like, you know the yes people,

673
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:47,799
Speaker 2: right that they're They're these individuals that regardless of what

674
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 2: they say, what they do, they're they're just so mesmerized

675
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:54,799
Speaker 2: to be in that person's presence and they're really not

676
00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:57,600
Speaker 2: what I would call that really true friend, right, They're not.

677
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:02,640
Speaker 2: They don't. There's not the authenticity that's going on. And

678
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:04,080
Speaker 2: I picked it up right away and I thought, oh

679
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:07,720
Speaker 2: my god, that poor girl. She's surrounded around these people

680
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:10,440
Speaker 2: that are just giving her what she wants. And we

681
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 2: know drugs, alcoholic cause the next morning when I showed

682
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 2: up after I worked with it, I went into the room.

683
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:18,759
Speaker 2: I couldn't believe what I saw. It was like a

684
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 2: frat party, alcohol cigarettes, barf all on the side of

685
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:25,080
Speaker 2: her bed. It was the barf that was up in

686
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:28,839
Speaker 2: the and the toilet was overflowing. It was disgusting. So

687
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:32,040
Speaker 2: there's people get mesmerized by they they're really not their

688
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:35,640
Speaker 2: true friends there they You know, we see this so often,

689
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:38,799
Speaker 2: so I understand someone like Oprah. It's got to be

690
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:42,920
Speaker 2: a lonely, really place to be because you can't confide

691
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 2: and everybody because of who you.

692
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:50,080
Speaker 1: Are, and I preach get your own zone seven. Those

693
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 1: people that have your bag, that truly support you, that

694
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:56,719
Speaker 1: cheer for you, that clap for you, that you know

695
00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:59,640
Speaker 1: are going to defend you when you're not there, and

696
00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 1: some body that's going to tell you the truth.

697
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 2: Amen's sister. I tell you, I can't tell you how

698
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:08,920
Speaker 2: many people I've had to remove out of my environment

699
00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:11,799
Speaker 2: because of the work we do. Some people are just

700
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:15,200
Speaker 2: very threatened and they love to, you know, you know,

701
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:17,680
Speaker 2: cut say things that are inappropriate, or cut you down

702
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:20,080
Speaker 2: to elevate themselves. Of course, we know how to read

703
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:22,440
Speaker 2: through all of that, and you know, you have to

704
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:25,839
Speaker 2: create these really safe boundaries protection and people like you see,

705
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 2: we all get each other, right. So we're here on

706
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:30,600
Speaker 2: the sidelines and we're waiving all the you know, the

707
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 2: pom poms because we know we respect. We get it.

708
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:37,320
Speaker 2: You know, we're the same of ego, strength, different personalities,

709
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 2: but we get it. We're on a not a better plane,

710
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:43,839
Speaker 2: a different plane, just in a different plane that we're

711
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:47,120
Speaker 2: not threatened or intimidated by other people. But people that

712
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:50,800
Speaker 2: are insecure, people that are struggling with their own self esteem,

713
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:53,440
Speaker 2: they can create havoc in your life, and I have

714
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:57,080
Speaker 2: even in my own business. And the more I've rinked up,

715
00:39:57,719 --> 00:39:59,920
Speaker 2: the smaller my circle becomes.

716
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:10,400
Speaker 1: You can deduce from a mugshot, from a clip, just

717
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:13,719
Speaker 1: a quick TV clip, even maybe somebody you have not

718
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:16,839
Speaker 1: officially been hired for. But if I were to show

719
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:19,239
Speaker 1: you a clip of somebody, you might go, well, he

720
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 1: seems resentful, or he seems upset, or he seems agitated.

721
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:27,000
Speaker 1: Whatever word you may use will give me insight. This

722
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:29,640
Speaker 1: is how we should question this person. This is how

723
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:33,239
Speaker 1: we should approach this person. Just like you saying, if

724
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:37,080
Speaker 1: somebody is visual versus you know, so you speak to

725
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:39,960
Speaker 1: that a little bit of how you can work in

726
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:42,480
Speaker 1: very limited information.

727
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:45,720
Speaker 2: That's a really good point too, because I've been traded

728
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:48,520
Speaker 2: in what we call the facial action coding system, and

729
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 2: I would not advise any way to take that course

730
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 2: because it's grueling. But even though it's really good, it's

731
00:40:55,680 --> 00:41:01,480
Speaker 2: really understanding the actual skeleton, the muscular or features of

732
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:04,319
Speaker 2: a face that is underneath our skin. And we have

733
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:09,120
Speaker 2: like fifty two different muscles and they move, they and

734
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:13,880
Speaker 2: they they're combined in different movements and they create these expressions.

735
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:18,239
Speaker 2: So My job was in the training is to code them.

736
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:22,280
Speaker 2: That's why it's called facial action coding system. You're coding

737
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:30,160
Speaker 2: the movements and those movements when studied over a massive population.

738
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:34,239
Speaker 2: And this is where AI really gets exciting, is that

739
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:39,000
Speaker 2: we can measure these movements and then we can cross

740
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:43,439
Speaker 2: culturally analyze, so we know, like certain cultures with kind

741
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:47,600
Speaker 2: of you know, their facial expressions, like in certain Asian population,

742
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:52,480
Speaker 2: they don't show necessarily as facial expressions as overt you know,

743
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:55,799
Speaker 2: different cultures are taught different things and so they know

744
00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:59,280
Speaker 2: how to control them. But the bottom line is these

745
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 2: movements give us insight and gives me insight to what

746
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:09,040
Speaker 2: emotionally is processing internally. So then you tie that to

747
00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:11,719
Speaker 2: the stimulus. Maybe it could be even something that with

748
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:14,400
Speaker 2: their mind is kind of drifting off or recalling something.

749
00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 2: You can see these movements, which we know universally there's

750
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:22,960
Speaker 2: seven of them, but we've gone so far beyond that,

751
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:26,960
Speaker 2: way beyond that to be able to know there's hundreds

752
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 2: of emotions that we analyze and it has to be

753
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:32,600
Speaker 2: taken into context. So when I look at a video,

754
00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:37,359
Speaker 2: I'm watching the movements and I'm coding them. Okay, that's

755
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:39,680
Speaker 2: an F three, that's an F four, that's an F five,

756
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:43,640
Speaker 2: or whatever. It's facial action. It's they're called units. So

757
00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:46,400
Speaker 2: I'm looking at them coding it, and then i am

758
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:51,400
Speaker 2: I'm also doing a scan analysis, so that's just the face.

759
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:54,520
Speaker 2: Scan analysis is a little bit different because it is

760
00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 2: based on that seven to second theory, right stimulus watching

761
00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 2: those movements and I'm just watching the facial expressions more

762
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:06,160
Speaker 2: if I'm watching the body movements. And we know that

763
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:10,920
Speaker 2: in certain cultures there's different movements based on a specific culture,

764
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:15,080
Speaker 2: so there's no universal body language movements that has a

765
00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:19,440
Speaker 2: specific definition. You have to take it all into context.

766
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:24,280
Speaker 2: And that's where it really becomes very tedious process because

767
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:26,640
Speaker 2: when I'm analyzing a video, just to kind of give

768
00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:29,880
Speaker 2: you my I'm going to give you your viewers my

769
00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:33,040
Speaker 2: what I do when I'm behind the scene. This is

770
00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:36,719
Speaker 2: what I do. I take what they're the video, the

771
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:40,439
Speaker 2: piece of clip, I upload it into a program called

772
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:44,160
Speaker 2: rev dot com. Rev dot com will trans take the

773
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:48,759
Speaker 2: verbal and then translate it into text and then you

774
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:52,680
Speaker 2: can watch the text highlight as the person is talking,

775
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:55,440
Speaker 2: so you know what words are highlighted. And now I'm

776
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:58,880
Speaker 2: watching the face right. So I begin by looking at

777
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:03,200
Speaker 2: a video I watch I slow it down. Well, the

778
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:04,319
Speaker 2: first time I do it, I look at it in

779
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:07,000
Speaker 2: real time, and then I start to slow it down.

780
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:10,120
Speaker 2: So I slow the speed down, and I now I'm

781
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:17,040
Speaker 2: watching the movement's going like, oh, that weird sound. But

782
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:22,439
Speaker 2: we're watching the muscular facial expressions morph and move same time.

783
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:25,080
Speaker 2: You can see their body language, and then you tie

784
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:28,520
Speaker 2: it into their words, what they're saying that's creating that emotion,

785
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:32,920
Speaker 2: and then you start to find patterns and their behavior.

786
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:35,359
Speaker 2: And that's what I do. That's how I do it.

787
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:38,399
Speaker 2: I sit behind, I turn it all the way down.

788
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:41,319
Speaker 2: I repeat it, repeat it, repeat it, and repeat it

789
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:44,960
Speaker 2: at nauseum until I'm certain of what my analysis is.

790
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:46,720
Speaker 2: And then I provide the report.

791
00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:51,160
Speaker 1: And just so y'all know, Susan Constantine and are working

792
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 1: on a cold case together. And when you make a

793
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:57,480
Speaker 1: call to her, not only do you get her, you

794
00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:01,600
Speaker 1: get her people. So you feel very very confident when

795
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:04,160
Speaker 1: they come back to you that you're going to have

796
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:08,759
Speaker 1: something solid to work with. If you don't mind, could

797
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:11,440
Speaker 1: you talk a little bit about the Holmes case.

798
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:14,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, that was an interesting one back in

799
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:18,319
Speaker 2: twenty thirteen, I was contacted by I can't give you

800
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:21,360
Speaker 2: his name because I was still he's my client, But

801
00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:24,560
Speaker 2: I was contacted by someone that was being sued by

802
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:28,359
Speaker 2: Elizabeth Holmes, and a lot of you may recall her.

803
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:31,719
Speaker 2: She's the one that developed that blood testing device that

804
00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:34,040
Speaker 2: with a prick of blood you can determine all these

805
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:37,920
Speaker 2: different types of illnesses, et cetera. And it was actually

806
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:42,120
Speaker 2: a brilliant idea. And she was an Ivy League student

807
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:47,000
Speaker 2: and who actually dropped out in her freshman year because

808
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:49,880
Speaker 2: she was considered being like the up and coming female

809
00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:53,960
Speaker 2: Stephen Jobs. She even dressed in black. She had the deeper,

810
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:56,799
Speaker 2: lower voice, she was you know, she just had this

811
00:45:57,040 --> 00:46:00,480
Speaker 2: aura about her that people were mesmerized. So she not

812
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:03,880
Speaker 2: only mesmerized people around her, but also some of the

813
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:08,439
Speaker 2: most affluent people of shakers and movers and big MiG

814
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:11,000
Speaker 2: money and pharming, you name it. She was able to

815
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:16,239
Speaker 2: she was able to convince them about this blood testing device. Well,

816
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:19,440
Speaker 2: my client was being sued by her saying that he

817
00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:24,840
Speaker 2: stole her copyright on that blood testing device. So he

818
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:27,680
Speaker 2: gave me a ton of videos of where she was

819
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:30,759
Speaker 2: speaking in front of all of these different groups and

820
00:46:31,239 --> 00:46:37,439
Speaker 2: conferences and pitching this device and how it worked, et cetera. Well,

821
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:42,000
Speaker 2: I gave him my analysis and then I kind of

822
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:45,080
Speaker 2: forgot about it. Years passed by and I get an

823
00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:46,839
Speaker 2: email from it says, hey, did you look at the

824
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:49,319
Speaker 2: front cover of Forbes magazine? I said no. He says,

825
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:52,040
Speaker 2: go look at the front cover. It was Elizabeth Holmes

826
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:55,719
Speaker 2: and about her device was questionable, whether she was a

827
00:46:55,719 --> 00:46:58,360
Speaker 2: fraud or not. Well, I go back and I pull

828
00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:01,439
Speaker 2: the report, and what do I say? She doesn't believe

829
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:04,400
Speaker 2: in her own blood testing device. She has low confidence

830
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:06,920
Speaker 2: in her own blood testing device. She doesn't think it's

831
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:10,080
Speaker 2: going to work. I was like, now, how would I

832
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:11,400
Speaker 2: have known that? Well, I'm going to tell you what

833
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:14,480
Speaker 2: I noticed when she was so I pulled up all

834
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:16,960
Speaker 2: the old videos. I found this one where she was

835
00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:21,080
Speaker 2: speaking in front of a various medical team and she

836
00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:25,120
Speaker 2: was talking about how it worked in all this language,

837
00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:27,920
Speaker 2: of course, medical language I couldn't even begin to repeat.

838
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:33,279
Speaker 2: But then she takes her hand and she says, we

839
00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:40,680
Speaker 2: have extreme belief that pause hesitate, pausitate hesitate, and then

840
00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:44,440
Speaker 2: she starts talking about our product. Now here's the problem.

841
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:50,120
Speaker 2: When she said I have extreme belief that when a

842
00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:54,280
Speaker 2: person uses a bolstering word in front of a statement,

843
00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:58,080
Speaker 2: always open up your ears, because why did they have

844
00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:01,440
Speaker 2: to bolster that word? She could get She could have

845
00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:05,239
Speaker 2: easily said we believe that, or we know that, but

846
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:08,640
Speaker 2: we have extreme belief that. But then what followed it

847
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:11,720
Speaker 2: was her hand coming up on her neck and rubbing

848
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:15,600
Speaker 2: her neck of worry and concern. I was like, are

849
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:22,879
Speaker 2: you kidding me? Busted said she doesn't believe that thing

850
00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:26,440
Speaker 2: even works, and sure enough is exactly what happened.

851
00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:31,080
Speaker 1: Your expertise and the way you deliver information and your

852
00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:35,560
Speaker 1: willingness to share is just astounding to me, and I

853
00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:37,280
Speaker 1: appreciate it so much.

854
00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:40,960
Speaker 2: What's my pleasure? And you know, having the skills will

855
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:45,560
Speaker 2: help them to be better informed decisions about business transactions,

856
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:49,000
Speaker 2: people they're involved with, and also to identify dangerous people

857
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:52,440
Speaker 2: in their lives. So it's a skill that everyone should

858
00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:55,160
Speaker 2: have in their lives. In my new book, I do

859
00:48:55,239 --> 00:48:58,920
Speaker 2: a whole chapter on lies we tell ourselves, lies we

860
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:01,400
Speaker 2: tell other people, and lined by flatteries.

861
00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:01,719
Speaker 1: One of them.

862
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:04,279
Speaker 2: It's like saying, you know, you're fabulous, you're great, and

863
00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:07,640
Speaker 2: you talk about these celebrities, you're amazing and behind their back,

864
00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 2: they're stabbing them, they're not sincere. Well, that is actually

865
00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:14,480
Speaker 2: your own personal character flaw, because if you can't if

866
00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:18,239
Speaker 2: you can't deliver truth to a friend without being offensive,

867
00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:20,759
Speaker 2: but you're really doing it in a place that where

868
00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:23,640
Speaker 2: you care and your love, you're loving and you're being

869
00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:27,480
Speaker 2: authentic in a very kind manner, then you're really not

870
00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:30,359
Speaker 2: being truthful. So I look at that. That's a that's

871
00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:32,759
Speaker 2: a huge one for me. So I hope everybody will

872
00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:35,480
Speaker 2: not only just learn the skills that I'm talking about

873
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:38,440
Speaker 2: how to detect deception, but also do their own self

874
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:42,840
Speaker 2: analyzation about how they handle things and how they communicate

875
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:45,799
Speaker 2: to the world. Are they actually being honest with themselves?

876
00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:48,880
Speaker 1: Susan, thank you so much. And I'm going to end

877
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:51,880
Speaker 1: Zone seven the way that I always do with a quote.

878
00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:56,360
Speaker 1: Men are liars, will lie about lyne if we have to.

879
00:49:57,520 --> 00:50:02,440
Speaker 1: I'm an algebra liar. Figure two good lies makes a

880
00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:07,680
Speaker 1: positive actor, Tim Allen. I'm Cheryl McCollum, and this is

881
00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:08,360
Speaker 1: Zone seven.