WEBVTT - Episode 2 - The Interview 0:00:01.480 --> 0:00:09.039 BBC Sudas. Hey, Hi'm Maggie. Just a quick heads up 0:00:09.080 --> 0:00:12.799 before we start. The series does contain some descriptions of 0:00:12.920 --> 0:00:21.640 violence and deals with adult themes. Jim and Sandy are 0:00:21.760 --> 0:00:27.840 at their favorite restaurant, Los Cucos, their most love dishes 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:31.639 spread across the table. There's a fish cancun for Sandy 0:00:32.200 --> 0:00:36.160 and agorace for Jim, which is something like a thick 0:00:36.240 --> 0:00:41.639 corn tortilla topped with beans, meat and salsa. Jim's had 0:00:41.680 --> 0:00:45.400 his hair freshly cut for the occasion, and the pictures 0:00:45.440 --> 0:00:48.080 I've seen of him, he looks kind of like your 0:00:48.120 --> 0:00:52.200 classic dad. He's got a buttoned down, collared shirt tucked 0:00:52.240 --> 0:00:58.120 into khakis, his BlackBerry clip to his belt. Jim's petite 0:00:58.320 --> 0:01:02.560 at only five seven, with a slim frame and wire glasses. 0:01:04.200 --> 0:01:07.399 Sandy's just a bit shorter, with shoulder length blonde hair 0:01:07.520 --> 0:01:12.680 and tight, square framed glasses. That night, she's of vision 0:01:12.920 --> 0:01:17.679 and brown with brown slacks, sweater and boots. I can 0:01:17.720 --> 0:01:21.319 imagine her laughing as she leans in her hand cupped 0:01:21.360 --> 0:01:26.800 around a pina colada. It's December twenty second, twenty twelve, 0:01:27.360 --> 0:01:31.160 and Jim and Sandy are celebrating their thirty second wedding anniversary, 0:01:31.959 --> 0:01:39.480 an amazing achievement for any relationship. They finish their meal, 0:01:39.880 --> 0:01:43.280 pay the bill, and head out into the cool Texas night, 0:01:43.959 --> 0:01:46.560 stopping at CBS to pick up some mixers for drinks, 0:01:47.000 --> 0:01:51.760 sprite and coke. They make their way back home, leaving 0:01:51.800 --> 0:01:56.080 the suburban sprawl of shopping centers and chain restaurants to 0:01:56.160 --> 0:02:00.480 the tree lined street of their cult de sac home 0:02:00.560 --> 0:02:06.120 and pull into their garage. Sandy enters first, while Jim 0:02:06.240 --> 0:02:10.280 follows behind, his hands full with the leftovers from dinner 0:02:10.400 --> 0:02:14.520 and the drinks they purchased at CBS. Sandy heads to 0:02:14.560 --> 0:02:19.440 the master bedroom and into the adjoining bathroom. She begins 0:02:19.440 --> 0:02:22.920 filling up the corner jacuzzi definitely big enough for two. 0:02:23.840 --> 0:02:28.440 You see where this is going. Grab some rum and vodka, 0:02:29.080 --> 0:02:32.519 a bowl of strawberries, and a tub of whipped cream. 0:02:33.240 --> 0:02:36.720 Jim follows behind. They and dress and get into the 0:02:36.800 --> 0:02:43.000 chacuzi have sex talk. They somehow spend two hours in 0:02:43.080 --> 0:02:48.120 the tub, but at some point the couple's four dogs 0:02:48.160 --> 0:02:52.720 begin barking. A neighbor has complained before, and both Jim 0:02:52.800 --> 0:02:57.119 and Sandy are conscious to not make it a big issue. 0:02:57.320 --> 0:02:59.799 Jim jumps out of the tub, wraps a towel around 0:02:59.840 --> 0:03:04.200 his waist and brings the dogs in. Sandy stays in 0:03:04.240 --> 0:03:08.240 a little bit longer, lingering in the now lukewarm water, 0:03:10.000 --> 0:03:14.080 but when Jim doesn't come back, she gets out the 0:03:14.160 --> 0:03:19.400 jacuzzi jets. Still worrying. She puts on some underwear, a 0:03:19.440 --> 0:03:24.160 red nightgown, black robe, and fluffy socks, then sits on 0:03:24.240 --> 0:03:28.960 an ornate brown satin chair with curling white vines and 0:03:29.000 --> 0:03:35.720 begins lotioning her legs. But after that, according to Sandy, 0:03:35.960 --> 0:03:50.720 the world goes black. Around sixteen hours later, on December 0:03:50.760 --> 0:03:55.160 twenty third, Sandy and Jim's family are gathered outside their house, 0:03:55.560 --> 0:03:59.040 having just discovered his dead body and found Sandy tied 0:03:59.160 --> 0:04:02.640 up and shut in a closet. They had come over 0:04:02.720 --> 0:04:06.880 for dinner, but instead they now find themselves being interviewed 0:04:06.880 --> 0:04:10.800 by the police, who were trying to piece together what's happened. 0:04:11.720 --> 0:04:13.240 Where was your aunt located at? 0:04:14.600 --> 0:04:16.080 I saw her in the restaurroom. 0:04:17.000 --> 0:04:18.280 Which restaurant the. 0:04:18.400 --> 0:04:22.719 Master bedroom, there's a restaurroom in there. How much of 0:04:22.800 --> 0:04:30.480 her did you see? Her face? She looked very pale, 0:04:31.120 --> 0:04:34.599 and she was crying a lot, and it looked like 0:04:34.680 --> 0:04:37.120 she was going to pass out when she saw my uncle. 0:04:38.920 --> 0:04:40.280 I went to a Garrea water. 0:04:42.720 --> 0:04:45.720 And are you close with Jamie? Yeah, here's your ancle 0:04:46.480 --> 0:04:51.600 And what do you know about his wife, Sandra Sandy? 0:04:51.800 --> 0:04:57.040 Honestly, no, I talked more to my uncle. 0:04:57.839 --> 0:04:59.440 What kind of person is she that you know of. 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:00.919 She's a nice person. 0:05:01.080 --> 0:05:05.560 She's always outgoing, always eating out with my mom and. 0:05:04.839 --> 0:05:07.279 My uncle's my other uncle's ex wife. 0:05:07.520 --> 0:05:08.240 Let me ask you this. 0:05:08.800 --> 0:05:10.600 You were sitting in that patrol car up there when 0:05:10.640 --> 0:05:14.840 we brought her out there and photographed her, and she's 0:05:14.839 --> 0:05:15.640 on a cane. 0:05:16.000 --> 0:05:17.320 You ever see her walk with a came before. 0:05:17.360 --> 0:05:18.600 I've never seen her on a came before. 0:05:18.640 --> 0:05:20.640 Now I hadn't. The last time you saw her, she walked. 0:05:20.400 --> 0:05:23.880 Okay, Yes, she was fine. She came to my house December. 0:05:24.560 --> 0:05:26.359 I believe it was December eighth or December ninth. It 0:05:26.400 --> 0:05:27.200 was on a Sunday. 0:05:28.480 --> 0:05:31.920 We're trying to figure out what happened. Any problems between 0:05:31.920 --> 0:05:33.760 the two of them lately that you know of. 0:05:34.080 --> 0:05:36.400 No, they always look like a happy couple of them 0:05:36.440 --> 0:05:36.600 to me. 0:05:37.839 --> 0:05:40.799 They ask similar questions to the rest of the family. 0:05:41.160 --> 0:05:43.400 You know, have you heard your other family members that 0:05:43.680 --> 0:05:44.680 are related to them? 0:05:44.800 --> 0:05:47.480 Have you heard them talk about any problems between them. No, no, 0:05:47.480 --> 0:05:49.720 no problem at all. Everything was good, everything else. Did 0:05:50.760 --> 0:05:53.960 you understand something's happened here? Yeah, I do understand. 0:05:53.960 --> 0:05:56.239 And that's a total shock to you. It's a complete 0:05:56.240 --> 0:05:57.760 sort You don't suspect. 0:05:57.400 --> 0:05:59.880 Anything that happening, or you don't have any ideas of 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:00.440 your own A. 0:06:00.920 --> 0:06:02.880 No, honey, I don't even know if I don't know 0:06:02.880 --> 0:06:05.440 if somebody broke in the house, or you know, I 0:06:05.480 --> 0:06:06.400 have no clue. 0:06:06.720 --> 0:06:07.120 I don't know. 0:06:07.320 --> 0:06:10.520 Okay. 0:06:12.800 --> 0:06:18.120 I'm Maggie Robinson, cats And from BBC Studios and iHeart Podcasts. 0:06:19.040 --> 0:06:32.760 This is Hands Tied, Episode two, the interview. It's now 0:06:32.880 --> 0:06:36.719 nine two pm and Sandy Malgar finds herself in a 0:06:36.760 --> 0:06:41.440 small white room in Harris County Police Station, Texas. She's 0:06:41.520 --> 0:06:44.159 hunched over a purple chair with her head buried in 0:06:44.200 --> 0:06:49.080 her hands, her long blonde hair covering her face. She's 0:06:49.120 --> 0:06:53.560 still wearing the thin black robe, those fluffy socks, no shoes, 0:06:54.040 --> 0:06:56.479 but she's managed to change into a pair of jeans. 0:06:57.600 --> 0:07:00.320 Sandy has declined going to the hospital and getting checked out, 0:07:00.640 --> 0:07:06.919 but agrees to an interview with the police. As the 0:07:06.960 --> 0:07:10.400 door creaks open, Sandy sits up, lifting her face and 0:07:10.440 --> 0:07:14.600 tucking her hair behind her ears. The dark circles around 0:07:14.640 --> 0:07:18.080 her eyes stand out against her waxy, pale skin. A 0:07:18.120 --> 0:07:20.440 wooden cane is hooked over the arm of her chair. 0:07:22.120 --> 0:07:27.760 Two stocky detectives enter, wearing almost matching outfits, dark kaki chinos, 0:07:27.960 --> 0:07:30.240 with one in a white shirt the other in a 0:07:30.240 --> 0:07:37.000 soft baby blue. One of the cops places two small 0:07:37.000 --> 0:07:40.520 cups on the square table next to Sandy. The room 0:07:40.640 --> 0:07:43.280 is cramped, so they have to do an awkward side 0:07:43.320 --> 0:07:45.920 step as they take their seats on either side of her. 0:07:47.720 --> 0:07:52.720 Take a picture of titles. 0:07:53.640 --> 0:07:59.120 That's Sandy. Her voice soft and weak. She points to 0:07:59.160 --> 0:08:02.400 her feet, telling the detectives that they didn't take a 0:08:02.440 --> 0:08:05.800 picture of her ankles. They were tied, as well as 0:08:05.840 --> 0:08:10.120 her hands. The detectives assure her that they'll get to 0:08:10.160 --> 0:08:11.000 that in a second. 0:08:11.320 --> 0:08:13.800 I need to do a statement from you, okay, that's 0:08:13.800 --> 0:08:16.360 why we're here, and I will record in an old 0:08:16.440 --> 0:08:19.720 statement and give some questions from your answer me. 0:08:20.440 --> 0:08:24.040 That's Detective Ruben Shawn Carousel, but everyone calls him Sean. 0:08:24.720 --> 0:08:26.480 He's leading the murder investigation. 0:08:29.200 --> 0:08:29.440 Case. 0:08:29.520 --> 0:08:33.120 Number one two one seven six two sixty nine is Sunday, 0:08:33.120 --> 0:08:36.640 December twenty third, twenty twelve. This is Sean Caronel Harris 0:08:36.679 --> 0:08:39.680 kind of shafs off with homicide sixty Henry forty two. 0:08:39.880 --> 0:08:42.959 He's bald, middle aged, A bit what I expect when 0:08:43.000 --> 0:08:46.199 I hear both the words Texas and cop I can 0:08:46.240 --> 0:08:51.079 imagine he'd be comfortable grilling both meats and witnesses also 0:08:51.160 --> 0:08:51.440 with me. 0:08:51.559 --> 0:08:52.560 It's Sargeant, do say. 0:08:53.120 --> 0:08:57.000 Sergeant James Toussay is seated directly on Sandy's right. He's 0:08:57.040 --> 0:09:01.120 also in his middle age, with a similar texas a Saqua. 0:09:01.240 --> 0:09:02.800 Stargew saying, to identify yourself. 0:09:02.960 --> 0:09:04.360 I'm sixty Henry thirty nine. 0:09:04.440 --> 0:09:08.320 Okay, he's lucky to even be in the room. Just 0:09:08.440 --> 0:09:11.120 two years ago, he was gored by a bull named 0:09:11.160 --> 0:09:16.600 Peanut and survived, leaving him with scars and the ultimate 0:09:16.640 --> 0:09:21.920 bar story. The two detectives go way back their childhood friends, 0:09:22.360 --> 0:09:24.680 and both have come straight from the crime scene to 0:09:24.720 --> 0:09:26.320 the Harris County Sheriff's office. 0:09:26.360 --> 0:09:28.439 Okay, ma'am, can you identify yourself for me? 0:09:30.440 --> 0:09:33.000 As the only survivor and a potential witness to her 0:09:33.080 --> 0:09:36.800 husband's murder, the detectives need as much detail as they 0:09:36.840 --> 0:09:40.120 can get from Sandy, and as quickly as possible. 0:09:40.760 --> 0:09:41.760 We'll start from the morning. 0:09:41.760 --> 0:09:43.000 When you woke up today? 0:09:43.800 --> 0:09:44.480 Where are you at? 0:09:44.600 --> 0:09:49.840 Yes, in my closet, Sandy's hard to hear, she says, 0:09:50.400 --> 0:09:52.800 in my closet this morning? 0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:57.000 Yes, Okay, what about yesterday? 0:09:57.480 --> 0:09:59.839 Let's start yesterday? 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:02.720 Yesterday Saturday. 0:10:04.800 --> 0:10:04.959 Uh. 0:10:05.679 --> 0:10:06.400 We went up to. 0:10:06.360 --> 0:10:08.200 Eat at. 0:10:09.800 --> 0:10:18.760 Mexican restaurant. I think it was the products the roles were. 0:10:19.960 --> 0:10:20.880 Yeah, what time was that? 0:10:21.559 --> 0:10:21.760 I was? 0:10:22.720 --> 0:10:29.520 Who was whucos? Whokos? Uh? I'm listening about eight. I mean, 0:10:29.559 --> 0:10:31.160 I'm just guessing. I don't know. 0:10:33.280 --> 0:10:33.559 M h. 0:10:34.400 --> 0:10:38.560 Sandy sounds a little sketchy. She's slow to speak, vague 0:10:38.600 --> 0:10:42.120 and unsure of details. But I can imagine she must 0:10:42.200 --> 0:10:46.840 be exhausted and traumatized. Maybe no wonder she can't remember 0:10:46.920 --> 0:10:47.640 certain things. 0:10:48.480 --> 0:10:49.720 While what time did you get home? 0:10:52.600 --> 0:10:58.079 Probably midnight? Okay, I'm just guessing that I don't know. 0:11:00.240 --> 0:11:01.600 And when you got home? What did y'all do? 0:11:05.040 --> 0:11:08.800 We made some drinks, We gotten a ninjakuti. 0:11:08.800 --> 0:11:11.040 Where they had sex and talked. 0:11:11.800 --> 0:11:14.160 Man, what were y'all talking about? 0:11:14.640 --> 0:11:15.160 My daughter? 0:11:15.640 --> 0:11:18.160 That's their daughter, Liz his job. 0:11:19.640 --> 0:11:26.800 Oh, here's gonna be turned. 0:11:29.320 --> 0:11:34.000 And couldn't come stop. 0:11:35.520 --> 0:11:38.000 Her hand lightly rests on her face for a second, 0:11:38.080 --> 0:11:41.680 as her voice catches, particularly the memory almost too much 0:11:41.760 --> 0:11:46.000 to bear. Jim was going to retire next year, they 0:11:46.000 --> 0:11:51.760 were going to travel. I go back and forward over 0:11:51.800 --> 0:11:54.200 the interview, trying to figure out what the cops are 0:11:54.240 --> 0:11:56.960 thinking and land on the moment. They zero in on 0:11:57.000 --> 0:12:01.200 the events leading up to Jim's murderfly focusing on the 0:12:01.200 --> 0:12:03.880 moment Jim got out of the chacuzzie to check on 0:12:03.920 --> 0:12:05.800 their four barking dogs. 0:12:06.360 --> 0:12:09.800 So the time when he got out to go check 0:12:09.800 --> 0:12:11.480 on the dogs, to go move the dog? 0:12:12.120 --> 0:12:15.680 What time was that, when I say one or two 0:12:15.720 --> 0:12:16.200 in the morning. 0:12:17.360 --> 0:12:21.720 And when he did that, what kind of noises did 0:12:21.800 --> 0:12:22.120 you hear? 0:12:23.280 --> 0:12:26.240 And I think the jacuzzie was still running even when 0:12:26.280 --> 0:12:27.839 I got out. The jacuzzie was running. 0:12:29.280 --> 0:12:33.600 Racze was making noise is pretty loud, and you couldn't hear. 0:12:33.440 --> 0:12:34.120 Anything over that. 0:12:35.400 --> 0:12:37.880 I didn't hear anything, hear anybody scream no. 0:12:38.880 --> 0:12:41.240 But you could hear the dogs bark, yeah, because they were. 0:12:41.200 --> 0:12:42.200 Right outside our window. 0:12:43.480 --> 0:12:45.800 Sandy says Jim was taking a while with the dogs, 0:12:46.120 --> 0:12:48.200 so she got out of the chacuzzie and went to 0:12:48.240 --> 0:12:49.640 her closet to get dressed. 0:12:49.880 --> 0:12:52.880 Several hours later, I woke up and realized I was 0:12:52.920 --> 0:12:59.200 tied up and tried to flip over, and then I 0:12:59.280 --> 0:13:02.800 kind of got stuck where I was for the rest 0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:03.240 of the time. 0:13:04.400 --> 0:13:08.480 That's all I remember. I mean, I would tell you 0:13:08.520 --> 0:13:09.600 more if I remember. 0:13:09.360 --> 0:13:10.200 Why, I just don't. 0:13:12.000 --> 0:13:12.760 Do you have pain? 0:13:13.720 --> 0:13:16.920 Do I have pain? If I have pain in my head? 0:13:17.520 --> 0:13:20.440 Yeah, She touches the left side of her head, like, 0:13:20.679 --> 0:13:22.520 what like I got hit. 0:13:22.480 --> 0:13:26.200 On the head. I don't know if I fell or 0:13:27.360 --> 0:13:32.120 was pushed or what, but just like all alongside this side. 0:13:34.160 --> 0:13:38.880 And then I remember oke up and I thought I 0:13:38.880 --> 0:13:43.000 had had seizure because my muscles hurt in my head 0:13:43.320 --> 0:13:46.720 was just hurting or bad and usually. 0:13:48.200 --> 0:13:51.000 That you have been having trouble with controlling my seizure. 0:13:52.360 --> 0:13:56.880 So Sandy has a laundry list of health issues, something 0:13:56.920 --> 0:13:59.920 she says she's been struggling with even more in recent months. 0:14:01.120 --> 0:14:04.920 Alongside the seizures, Sandy has had both her hips replaced, 0:14:05.320 --> 0:14:08.960 and she also suffers from lupus, which, for whatever reason, 0:14:09.040 --> 0:14:12.120 she doesn't disclose to the cops. If you don't know, 0:14:12.480 --> 0:14:16.400 lupas is a really serious autoimmune disease that causes extreme 0:14:16.440 --> 0:14:20.760 fatigue and joint and muscle pain. Another possible reason why 0:14:20.800 --> 0:14:26.480 She's foggy, not making sense, can't remember details. She's not well, 0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:28.720 but the cops aren't sure. 0:14:29.240 --> 0:14:31.320 I hurt all over and my head hurts. 0:14:31.440 --> 0:14:33.040 How often do you have seizures like that? 0:14:35.160 --> 0:14:37.800 I've been getting a more, lady, I'm not able to 0:14:37.880 --> 0:14:38.600 drive anymore. 0:14:38.640 --> 0:14:39.640 How frequent. 0:14:43.320 --> 0:14:45.920 This once a month? Maybe the auras? I get them 0:14:45.960 --> 0:14:46.680 all the time? 0:14:47.080 --> 0:14:48.960 Do you take medication for that? 0:14:49.160 --> 0:14:49.560 Okay? 0:14:50.480 --> 0:14:53.400 And what was the last time he had one of 0:14:53.440 --> 0:14:56.200 those before today? 0:14:59.560 --> 0:14:59.960 About them? 0:15:00.200 --> 0:15:01.840 Togo at home? 0:15:03.960 --> 0:15:07.600 And what happens when you have those seizures? What's the symptoms? Well, 0:15:07.840 --> 0:15:09.480 how do you feel when you have those? 0:15:10.760 --> 0:15:10.960 Oh? 0:15:11.040 --> 0:15:14.680 I have rash byds that tell me that I'm going 0:15:14.720 --> 0:15:21.400 to have one, and it's like I'm very forgetful, more 0:15:21.440 --> 0:15:21.960 than usual. 0:15:22.200 --> 0:15:23.400 Did you have one of those today? 0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:23.840 Yeah? 0:15:23.840 --> 0:15:26.520 I've been having it one week actually all month? 0:15:27.120 --> 0:15:29.320 So have you been forgetting things all month? 0:15:29.960 --> 0:15:30.120 Mm? 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:33.760 Hmm? And right after sometimes I can't even tell you 0:15:33.800 --> 0:15:34.200 my name? 0:15:34.920 --> 0:15:37.880 Okay, And let me ask you this, And I asked 0:15:37.920 --> 0:15:39.840 you before. You didn't answer my question. 0:15:40.920 --> 0:15:41.760 Why are we here? 0:15:42.720 --> 0:15:45.880 Do you know what has happened today? 0:15:46.520 --> 0:15:48.880 My husband was murdered how. 0:15:51.760 --> 0:15:54.680 I don't know. I don't think he was shot. 0:15:56.800 --> 0:15:59.920 What do you under what do you understand has happened? Yeah? 0:16:00.080 --> 0:16:04.040 Told you that he was part I saw him, he did. 0:16:04.360 --> 0:16:08.600 Yes, When in tied me, I heard hysterical screaming and 0:16:08.640 --> 0:16:11.360 I ran over there and I. 0:16:11.400 --> 0:16:15.280 Checked this post to see if there's anything we could do. 0:16:15.480 --> 0:16:18.920 Yeah, I saw him. Okay, I didn't know that. 0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:24.200 I saw him. 0:16:24.280 --> 0:16:28.239 As Sandy's voice breaks, she puts one hand across her forehead, 0:16:28.520 --> 0:16:32.000 pushing up her blonde Bang's eyes cast downwards. 0:16:32.560 --> 0:16:35.640 And he touched him, touched his wrist. 0:16:36.960 --> 0:16:37.760 I guess she isn't it? 0:16:38.360 --> 0:16:38.680 Okay? 0:16:40.240 --> 0:16:44.640 It's freezing cold, and I shouldn't have touched him, and 0:16:44.920 --> 0:16:48.920 I covered him. 0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:48.960 And I should have done that. 0:16:49.200 --> 0:16:50.080 What'd you go wrong with? 0:16:51.200 --> 0:16:51.360 You know? 0:16:51.520 --> 0:16:52.800 Something that was laying next to. 0:16:52.880 --> 0:17:04.280 The jacket, Because Jack, he was very good. 0:17:04.800 --> 0:17:06.159 It's really good care of me. 0:17:15.640 --> 0:17:20.760 Sandy's sobbing, head down on her knees, her hair falling forward. 0:17:26.840 --> 0:17:28.200 Until I got it. 0:17:30.560 --> 0:17:33.879 I've got to tell my daughter, she says between her. 0:17:33.800 --> 0:17:40.159 Sobs, Liz thousands of miles away, having no idea what 0:17:40.280 --> 0:17:46.280 her mom is going through in this moment, Sandra. 0:17:47.640 --> 0:17:52.159 Part of our job is we work hundreds and hundreds 0:17:52.160 --> 0:17:58.800 of mrder Okay, and sometimes we were cold bloody killers. 0:17:59.320 --> 0:18:01.840 They just don't want to street that would just kill 0:18:01.920 --> 0:18:02.679 somebody for nothing. 0:18:03.359 --> 0:18:03.719 Okay. 0:18:04.400 --> 0:18:12.800 Then sometimes were murders that they're an argument and something happens. Okay, 0:18:12.920 --> 0:18:18.480 there's two different types of people. Do understand, because if 0:18:18.480 --> 0:18:21.200 you're arguing with somebody and you lose it in your 0:18:21.280 --> 0:18:24.159 temper and the arguments what happened. 0:18:24.000 --> 0:18:24.920 That's not what happened. 0:18:25.119 --> 0:18:28.560 And I think I'm gonna stop talking because I think 0:18:28.600 --> 0:18:31.200 I'm gonna need a lawyer because I know how this works. 0:18:35.040 --> 0:18:39.359 Let me ask you something. It's all procedure for us 0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:39.960 to talk to you. 0:18:40.359 --> 0:18:44.639 Okay, we want to find out the answer to this. 0:18:46.359 --> 0:18:49.720 As bad as you do. Okay, we do, we really do. 0:18:51.359 --> 0:18:53.400 And we're not trying to cause you trouble, will cause 0:18:53.440 --> 0:18:57.560 you pain, but we have a procedure. 0:18:58.040 --> 0:18:59.800 Are you familiar with a polygraph exam? 0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:02.240 M hmm, a lie detector test? 0:19:02.560 --> 0:19:04.480 You should be willing to take a polygraphic examp? 0:19:05.080 --> 0:19:05.760 He's probably her. 0:19:07.400 --> 0:19:10.320 No, not now, she says. 0:19:10.480 --> 0:19:13.000 I'm just the nervous wreck right now. 0:19:28.960 --> 0:19:32.200 It's just after midnight now, and Sandy Melgar walks back 0:19:32.200 --> 0:19:35.520 into the cramped interview room, leaning heavily on a cane. 0:19:36.359 --> 0:19:39.359 She sits down and wrests the wooden stick against her chair. 0:19:41.600 --> 0:19:44.680 Sergeant Dussea comes in and takes the seat nearest her. 0:19:45.359 --> 0:19:50.280 How are you feeling, I've trying to drown the air down. 0:19:52.240 --> 0:19:54.840 This building keeps us constant of them. Sure you know. 0:19:57.680 --> 0:19:59.880 I'll be up rue honest with you, There's some things 0:20:00.119 --> 0:20:03.720 don't add up in your story and what you're telling me. 0:20:04.200 --> 0:20:06.560 Okay, maybe you could help me understand it. 0:20:08.560 --> 0:20:10.399 Now. You said you've been married thirty two years and 0:20:10.480 --> 0:20:12.280 you were supposed to celebrate that on. 0:20:12.320 --> 0:20:17.040 The twelfth December twelfth is their actual anniversary, but they 0:20:17.119 --> 0:20:18.879 were celebrating on the twenty second. 0:20:19.400 --> 0:20:21.040 Well, what reason was it that you did? 0:20:22.600 --> 0:20:23.320 I was it feeling? 0:20:23.400 --> 0:20:23.600 Well? 0:20:23.920 --> 0:20:30.280 Okay, I noticed you walked with a cane? Why is that? 0:20:31.400 --> 0:20:34.000 I've had my hips replaced and I have a lot 0:20:34.080 --> 0:20:34.720 of joint pain. 0:20:35.440 --> 0:20:39.400 How long ago did you have the hips replaced? 0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:40.360 My left one. 0:20:42.240 --> 0:20:47.280 About ten years ago or eleven, and then the right 0:20:47.320 --> 0:20:48.879 one about five years after that. 0:20:50.119 --> 0:20:52.800 You've been walking with a cane ever since that? It's 0:20:52.880 --> 0:20:53.840 just when'd you start? 0:20:56.080 --> 0:20:57.040 It's on and off. 0:20:57.160 --> 0:21:00.240 When it's colds, my joints hurt more, but late it's 0:21:00.280 --> 0:21:02.840 been more often because so how. 0:21:02.760 --> 0:21:04.360 Long you think you've been walking to the cane out? 0:21:07.240 --> 0:21:09.600 A couple of weeks, but some when the days are warmer, 0:21:09.960 --> 0:21:10.920 they don't really use it. 0:21:12.720 --> 0:21:16.399 From the detective's point of view, Sandy's poor health doesn't 0:21:16.480 --> 0:21:21.000 rule her out as a suspect. Quite the opposite. Maybe 0:21:21.040 --> 0:21:23.719 she's playing it up using a cane she doesn't need 0:21:23.800 --> 0:21:24.840 to elicit sympathy. 0:21:26.080 --> 0:21:28.760 You know, something I want you to understand is that 0:21:30.160 --> 0:21:33.719 we investigate something like this, Sandra. 0:21:33.760 --> 0:21:35.240 I want you to understand that. 0:21:37.240 --> 0:21:41.960 We go to all extremes. You know, we don't quit. 0:21:43.000 --> 0:21:45.359 You're going to see a lot of me, You're going 0:21:45.440 --> 0:21:46.399 to see a lot of my partner. 0:21:47.960 --> 0:21:48.199 You are. 0:21:48.920 --> 0:21:51.359 We're going to find out everything about you. We're going 0:21:51.400 --> 0:21:54.200 to find out everything about your husband. We're going to 0:21:54.240 --> 0:21:56.480 talk to everybody in your neighborhood. We're going to talk 0:21:56.560 --> 0:22:01.879 to everybody that you're related to. We're going to learn everything. 0:22:04.520 --> 0:22:05.600 Because it's not me. 0:22:06.280 --> 0:22:08.600 It's just so important that you be honest with us. 0:22:09.359 --> 0:22:13.640 You know, I told you it's protocol that we start close. 0:22:13.440 --> 0:22:19.119 To that victim that's you, Okay, And you know we 0:22:19.200 --> 0:22:22.440 didn't just walk into this ball game yesterday, and we 0:22:22.560 --> 0:22:23.760 can tell a whole lot of stuff. 0:22:24.520 --> 0:22:26.879 By the way, that when we start. 0:22:26.680 --> 0:22:29.560 With people, the way they react, the way they act, 0:22:29.840 --> 0:22:33.439 you need to understand that may I always show, may 0:22:33.520 --> 0:22:36.200 not always let that be be known to you. 0:22:37.240 --> 0:22:41.080 But we're no fools. You need to understand that too, okay. 0:22:43.000 --> 0:22:46.880 And we've been doing this long enough where there's things 0:22:46.920 --> 0:22:47.679 we recognize. 0:22:49.440 --> 0:22:52.680 You got to understand that too, Okay. 0:22:54.520 --> 0:22:57.720 We talk to people all the time. I never said 0:22:57.760 --> 0:23:03.560 you did. I did ask you to take a polygraph test? 0:23:03.720 --> 0:23:07.800 Yes, I did, and not shaking and freezing and. 0:23:07.920 --> 0:23:11.440 What's your what's your explanation though, what's your excuse for 0:23:11.600 --> 0:23:12.320 not taking one? 0:23:13.920 --> 0:23:16.480 It's not holding water, Sandra. I'm just gonna be honest 0:23:16.520 --> 0:23:17.480 with you. It's not. 0:23:17.840 --> 0:23:19.400 I just don't want to take it. And then it's 0:23:19.520 --> 0:23:20.200 used against me. 0:23:20.960 --> 0:23:22.920 Now the gloves are off. 0:23:23.200 --> 0:23:26.640 Are you covering something else? Why would you take a polygraph? 0:23:27.600 --> 0:23:31.480 Because I'm so stress right now I can't even think straight. 0:23:32.200 --> 0:23:33.120 It's not a good reason. 0:23:33.280 --> 0:23:37.200 Well, I just don't want to use against me, that's 0:23:37.240 --> 0:23:41.240 all I'll take it, But not just use against you 0:23:42.240 --> 0:23:47.199 because I'm stressed, and I mean I just. 0:23:49.119 --> 0:23:49.920 Beyond beyond that. 0:23:50.640 --> 0:23:51.840 Does your husband ever hit you? 0:23:52.720 --> 0:23:52.760 No? 0:23:53.560 --> 0:23:58.119 No, piscopal No, never did your husband tell you something 0:23:58.280 --> 0:23:59.840 that that made you black out. 0:24:00.440 --> 0:24:02.600 No, doesn't work that way. 0:24:03.960 --> 0:24:07.320 As your would your husband have a girlfriend signer, they'd 0:24:07.320 --> 0:24:08.640 be a jealous boyfriend, would coat. 0:24:08.880 --> 0:24:11.840 Yeah, as your husband of cosey, he was going to 0:24:11.960 --> 0:24:12.159 leave you. 0:24:12.520 --> 0:24:16.080 Yeah, they were taking plans. We were making plans. Who 0:24:16.600 --> 0:24:17.359 would leave me? 0:24:17.840 --> 0:24:19.480 Do you think he's ever caught one of his family 0:24:19.560 --> 0:24:20.680