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Speaker 1: Hey, the folks, it is Wednesday, April eighth.

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Speaker 2: Could it really happen?

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Speaker 1: Are they really going to invoke the twenty fifth Amendment

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Speaker 1: and remove President Trump from office?

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Speaker 2: With that?

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Speaker 1: Welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ scenes unlikely Robes,

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Speaker 1: But there is a different type of drum beat, more mainstream,

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Speaker 1: more voices, bigger voices after some of the messages from

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Speaker 1: the President this week that some are saying this guy

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Speaker 1: needs to be removed involuntarily.

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Speaker 3: Yes, some of the messages, perhaps specifically a very incendiary

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Speaker 3: message that was sent out yesterday declaring the apocalypse that

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Speaker 3: hour are. We didn't want to do it, but they

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Speaker 3: were making us wipe off or wipe out an entire civilization.

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Speaker 3: We were going to make an entire civilization die if

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Speaker 3: this country didn't do what we.

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Speaker 4: Wanted them to do when we wanted them to do it.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so here we are Robes now.

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Speaker 1: When he sent that message, a lot of people started

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Speaker 1: stepping out, including some senators, and saying the twenty fifth

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Speaker 1: Amendment should be invoked.

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Speaker 2: Now, rogues.

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Speaker 1: As we record this, there is a ceasefire shaky in place.

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Speaker 1: Are some going to back off and essentially say wow?

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Speaker 1: Whatever his method was it did work.

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Speaker 3: I don't know that that's the case, because a lot

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Speaker 3: of folks aren't even buying the fact that his message

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Speaker 3: is the reason why we suddenly have a ceasefire. There

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Speaker 3: are questions in play right now as to just what

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Speaker 3: Iran exactly has even agreed to, what their perception of

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Speaker 3: a ceasefire actually is, and what it must result in

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Speaker 3: before though actually have this war be over. So there

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Speaker 3: is so much gray area, and a lot of folks

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Speaker 3: even think some of this is contrived. That President Trump

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Speaker 3: knew that there negotiations going on.

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Speaker 4: President Trump knew that.

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Speaker 3: We were about to get to a point where we

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Speaker 3: could have some sort of an agreement where he could

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Speaker 3: back off or he could have an off ramp.

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Speaker 4: So he put out this fiery message. It looked like

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Speaker 4: he was the man.

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Speaker 1: So it wasn't really from the heart. It was a

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Speaker 1: part of a strategy, so it was okay. So he

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Speaker 1: didn't really mean it when he sent it. Do you

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Speaker 1: think that it makes him a mad genius? He's he's

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Speaker 1: You still don't want to be playing with language exactly.

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Speaker 1: You actually just brought something up I didn't really think

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Speaker 1: about a lot of people were saying he should be

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Speaker 1: removed because this is an unhinged, crazy person who has

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Speaker 1: nuclear codes. You are saying in a way that this

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Speaker 1: is a very sane person who was playing us all

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Speaker 1: and know exactly what he was doing.

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Speaker 3: I think there are people who think it's one or

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Speaker 3: the other, but either way, there is a whole other

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Speaker 3: group who claims just by using the language he used,

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Speaker 3: just by threatening to target civilians, target we didn't know.

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Speaker 3: But to say you're wiping out an entire civilization, that

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Speaker 3: would imply that you would be targeting everyone, not just

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Speaker 3: military operations or military installations, And that, in and of itself,

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Speaker 3: that threat, that fear, that trauma, that that caused is

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Speaker 3: a war crime in and of itself. Just to threaten

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Speaker 3: that is not something that this world tolerates.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so let's get caught up here, folks on the

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Speaker 1: twenty fifth Amendment.

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Speaker 4: We're going to schoolhouse rock.

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Speaker 1: This thing a little bit and take us all back

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Speaker 1: to the twenty fifth Amendment. But for the past several days,

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Speaker 1: robes I have seen it even close to the number

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Speaker 1: one or number two top trending topic on Twitter and

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Speaker 1: other places, the twenty fifth Amendment, because so many are

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Speaker 1: talking about it. Obviously it is the thing that allows

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Speaker 1: for the transfer of power from the president of the

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Speaker 1: vice president. Some of it voluntary, It could be involuntary.

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Speaker 1: We'll get into some of that in just a second.

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Speaker 1: But you now have robes. You are the one that

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Speaker 1: pointed out the count to me. I'm not sure how

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Speaker 1: many counts you've seen out there. And we're not just

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Speaker 1: talking about one or two or on the fringe or here,

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Speaker 1: but there's a now more of a collection of people

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Speaker 1: who are stepped forward and publicly put their name on

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Speaker 1: it saying I am calling for this to be invoked.

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Speaker 3: Yes, and this is almost certainly in direct reaction to

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Speaker 3: President Trump threatening to wipe out Iran. So more than

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Speaker 3: this is according to NBC News, they are reporting that

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Speaker 3: more than seventy lawmakers, including a handful of senators, as

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Speaker 3: you pointed out, all said in separate social media posts.

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Speaker 3: So they went into each of these lawmakers social media

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Speaker 3: accounts and they publicly posted on social media that Trump's

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Speaker 3: cabinet needs to invoke the twenty fifth Amendment to.

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Speaker 4: Declare him unfit to serve.

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Speaker 3: They want Congress to either impeach him, to convict him,

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Speaker 3: or both, but they are putting their names to it.

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Speaker 4: And they are putting it out for everyone to see

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Speaker 4: and read, to be on.

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Speaker 1: The record with they're saying he is unfit and unwell.

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Speaker 1: He is actually not mentally stable enough to continue as president.

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Speaker 2: Now we would expect robes.

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Speaker 1: And I think one that got a lot of attention

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Speaker 1: with Senator Murphy from Kinetic, a Democrat. He got a

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Speaker 1: lot of attention because he is a high profile Democrat

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Speaker 1: who came out and said this should happen. But there

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Speaker 1: were a couple of high profile Republicans Marjorie Taylor Green

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Speaker 1: she's still a Republican and Candice Owen say with you,

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Speaker 1: I guess a firebrand conservative. These two women came out

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Speaker 1: and they had.

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Speaker 2: Something to say. I'm ropes.

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Speaker 1: And Tucker Carlson he didn't exactly call for the twenty fifth,

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Speaker 1: but he is against the president in some of the

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Speaker 1: language he's used this week. But it's significant to hear

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Speaker 1: some Republicans stepping up and so former members of convicts

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Speaker 1: who are Republicans as well calling out the president.

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Speaker 3: Yes, and people are saying that basically, and it just

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Speaker 3: boils down to this, threatening a war crime is a

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Speaker 3: violation of our constitution. We have never had a president

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Speaker 3: We've never even had to consider this or even imagine this,

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Speaker 3: that a president of the United States would threaten a

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Speaker 3: war crime, reaten to wipe out a civilization if our

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Speaker 3: demands aren't met by a specific time. That is a

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Speaker 3: violation of our constitution. The truth is, legal experts have

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Speaker 3: weighed in, of course, and said there are grounds, period

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Speaker 3: for lawmakers to move forward with this. It's just whether

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Speaker 3: or not these lawmakers have the stomach for it.

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Speaker 2: Do I have right robes? That is it?

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Speaker 1: Lawmakers are kind of powerless in this situation. Isn't this

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Speaker 1: the cabinet? Aren't they the only ones who have the

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Speaker 1: power right now to remove the president?

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Speaker 4: That is what the call is for the cabinet.

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Speaker 3: I mean, that's what I've seen people calling on the cabinet,

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Speaker 3: the Trump administration to invoke this. And look, have we

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Speaker 3: When has the twenty fifth Amendment been invoked in our

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Speaker 3: nation's history, certainly not in recent history.

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Speaker 2: In this way.

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Speaker 4: Never ever has it been used in this way.

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Speaker 1: There's never a time that a president was deemed so incapable,

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Speaker 1: mentally incapable, on st able, unwilling, unable to fulfill the

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Speaker 1: duties that his own colleagues had to step up and say, no, Robe,

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Speaker 1: this has never ever happened. He surrounds himself with loyalists.

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Speaker 1: The cabin includes Hexith and Marco Rubio. You think that

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Speaker 1: group is going to vote against this guy?

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Speaker 3: I mean, obviously, I guess I was just gonna say,

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Speaker 3: and they just saw him get rid of Pam Bondi and.

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Speaker 4: Christy.

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Speaker 3: No. I didn't want to say Ice Barby, but that's

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Speaker 3: unfortunately what popped into my head. But yes, they just saw, Hey,

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Speaker 3: you do something he doesn't like, You're out, You're gone,

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Speaker 3: You're forgotten. If they like their stature, if they like

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Speaker 3: their power, if they like their platform, they're not going

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Speaker 3: to do anything to upset the president.

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Speaker 2: And they've been.

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Speaker 1: Towing the line publicly, the complete in line with the president,

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Speaker 1: praising the President at every chance they get in front

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Speaker 1: of microphone. I can't imagine that happening. But so right now,

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Speaker 1: everybody on the outside robes at this point is a

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Speaker 1: little powerless and what they can do a lot of

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Speaker 1: people are getting on the record. I'm not sure how

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Speaker 1: significant this is, but I mean, the NAACP is a

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Speaker 1: storied organization in this country. For them to step up,

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Speaker 1: and I actually gave them credit rogue. I pointed out

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Speaker 1: and showed you their statement. At least the first paragraph.

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Speaker 1: I said, that was well said without the politics. It

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Speaker 1: just kind of got to the point, and I thought,

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Speaker 1: kind of nailed what a lot of people are thinking.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it wasn't heavy on emotion.

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Speaker 3: It was mostly just on logic and on basically lawfulness.

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Speaker 3: So here's what the NAACP put out today. The n

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Speaker 3: DOUBLEACP demands urgent action to invoke the twenty fifth Amendment

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Speaker 3: in response to alarming signs of President Trump's deteriorating health

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Speaker 3: and increasingly delusional behavior. This is the first time the

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Speaker 3: N DOUBLEACP has ever called for the twenty fifth Amendment

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Speaker 3: to be invoked. The rhetoric and actions emanating from the

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Speaker 3: highest office in the land has reached a level of

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Speaker 3: instability that poses a direct threat to the well being

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Speaker 3: of millions of Americans and the integrity of our armed forces.

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Speaker 1: It is well said. I mean, it kind of nails

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Speaker 1: it without being so partisan. And a lot of people

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Speaker 1: will take issue with that. And I say that robes

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Speaker 1: remembering as we are looking at so much in the

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Speaker 1: President's like, how could anyone defend the president saying he's

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Speaker 1: not going to just bomb a place, or take out

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Speaker 1: the civilian infrastructure, or blow up a power plan, he said.

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Speaker 1: And not just the people, he said, I Am going

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Speaker 1: to wipe out a civilization. No, an entire civilization will

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Speaker 1: die tonight tonight. Right, So you see that, and obviously

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Speaker 1: everybody would react to that the same way. That's too far,

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Speaker 1: And Robobes, I always leave space for I mean, his supporters.

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Speaker 1: Maybe they see this rhetoric and they like it. We

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Speaker 1: watched a pretty remarkable interview on Fox News, and again

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Speaker 1: not taking issue with it anybody over there or this

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Speaker 1: anchor in particular, but to hear this interview Robes with

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Speaker 1: his anchor with a member of a high profile member

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Speaker 1: of Congress, and he was simply asking and trying to

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Speaker 1: get her to agree that that language is not something

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Speaker 1: that we should be proud of as Americans, right putting

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Speaker 1: out there, and she refused to concede the point even

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Speaker 1: a little bit. That what the president said was wrong.

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Speaker 4: It's true.

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Speaker 3: She kept going back to, well, diplomacy, how's that.

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Speaker 4: Worked, How's that worked for us?

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Speaker 3: How did Biden and Barack Obama's diplomacy work?

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Speaker 4: Not so well? Did it?

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Speaker 3: She kept talking about fifteen hundred Americans who've been killed

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Speaker 3: and then just basically said it's time for tough talk.

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Speaker 3: And the thing is, this wasn't tough talk. This was, frankly,

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Speaker 3: an illegal threat. And there's a line, and it wasn't

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Speaker 3: even close. It was clearly stepped over and trashed and disregarded.

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Speaker 3: How I think we pride ourselves as Americans. People know

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Speaker 3: we're not going to target civilians, or at least I

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Speaker 3: would hope that would be what people would assume. Maybe

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Speaker 3: I'm crazy, but at least it's been the policy from

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Speaker 3: my seat that we don't target civilians, that we don't

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Speaker 3: threaten civilian life, we don't threaten to take out an

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Speaker 3: entire civilization, like that's unthinkable. That's the word we were using,

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Speaker 3: because never before have we heard it, and never would

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Speaker 3: I have ever anticipated that we would hear something like that.

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Speaker 1: That's where I like to leave space, because there might

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Speaker 1: be someone Is it possible there are people or a

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Speaker 1: decent amount of the population, or he has his supporters

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Speaker 1: who saw.

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Speaker 2: Him threaten to wipe out a population.

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Speaker 4: And thought, yeah, it's about time.

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Speaker 1: And now looking at the result, I don't even want

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Speaker 1: to get into the result. It doesn't matter what the

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Speaker 1: result is the language. I don't know how we would

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Speaker 1: ever go about endorsing so all of that language. That's

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Speaker 1: what prompted people to say twenty fifth amendments. So, yes,

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Speaker 1: we are going to next take you down, oh middle

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Speaker 1: school lane, take you back to school, and we are

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Speaker 1: going to do a little twenty fifth Amendment lesson and

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Speaker 1: remind you how many times it's been invoked in our history,

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Speaker 1: Why was put in place in the first place, and

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Speaker 1: if it's ever been used in this way?

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Speaker 2: Not even close.

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Speaker 1: Actually, stay here, all right, we continue here on Amy

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Speaker 1: and TJ.

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Speaker 2: Rogues twenty fifth Amendment.

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Speaker 1: We all kind of generally, you know what, I think

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Speaker 1: I've seen more about the twenty fifth Amendment in movies

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Speaker 1: or on twenty four Maybe.

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Speaker 4: That's so funny.

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Speaker 3: That's the only time I actually even remember it being referenced,

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Speaker 3: the twenty five.

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Speaker 1: But we all have a general idea that the president

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Speaker 1: can be removed from office. We see I think we've

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Speaker 1: seen it dramatized, but it's never happened in real life.

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Speaker 1: I didn't remember this either, Robes. It was put in

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Speaker 1: place after the assassination of John F.

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Speaker 2: Kennedy.

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Speaker 4: It makes a lot of sense.

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Speaker 1: We didn't have a mechanism for the easy transfer of power.

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Speaker 1: So it was put in place. Yes, Congress approved it

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Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty five. It was ratified by the right

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Speaker 1: number of states. I think it was thirty eight. That

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Speaker 1: was in nineteen sixty seven. It goes into place. But rose,

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Speaker 1: there are several sections of it, and there's one section

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Speaker 1: that's never been invoked before in that section four. But

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Speaker 1: the sections that have been invoked robes section three in particular.

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Speaker 1: You see it, let's see whatever the president the Vegas

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Speaker 1: have man. Yeah, Section three is the one that's been

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Speaker 1: invoked mostly, and this is when essentially you can kind

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Speaker 1: of plan this when the president's going to have surgery

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Speaker 1: or something like that.

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Speaker 2: So the text of it, we will read you. Section three.

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Speaker 2: You have in front of you, Yep.

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Speaker 4: Section three.

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Speaker 3: Whenever the president transmits to the President pro Tempore of

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Speaker 3: the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives

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Speaker 3: his written declaration that he is unable to discharge the

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Speaker 3: powers and duties of his office, and until he transmits

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Speaker 3: to them a written declaration to the contrary, such powers

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Speaker 3: and duties shall be discharged by the vice president as

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Speaker 3: acting presidents. So, yes, when a president has to go

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Speaker 3: into surgery.

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Speaker 4: Is that really the only time that it's happened.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm misspoken a previous podcast Reagan. It happened

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Speaker 1: under Reagan. I thought, yeah, of course during assassination temp

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Speaker 1: they didn't invoke it. Then it was he had actually

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Speaker 1: a surgery during his presidency in nineteen eighty five, and

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Speaker 1: he invoked it then, but it was not officially invoked

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Speaker 1: after the assassination.

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Speaker 3: Crazy.

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Speaker 4: That is some reason I got more respect from him.

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Speaker 3: I would have assumed it was that point as well.

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Speaker 1: That one, but the other three times were all colonoscopies.

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Speaker 4: That is hilarious.

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Speaker 1: Joe Biden had one, and George W. Bush too. That

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Speaker 1: was the So the twenty fifth Amendment, that's when it's

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Speaker 1: been used.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: Section one in section two have to do with when

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Speaker 1: there's a vacancy and the vice presidency and trans That

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Speaker 1: is not relevant to what we're talking about in the presidency.

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Speaker 1: So it's Section three and four that are relevant. Section

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Speaker 1: four is the one we're talking about robes that has

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Speaker 1: never ever been invoked. I'm not sure however close the

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Speaker 1: country has come to this.

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Speaker 3: I mean, look, I'm sure there might have been moments,

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Speaker 3: but there's not a moment that I can recall, at

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Speaker 3: least so in the past thirty years as a journalist,

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Speaker 3: I have never once covered a rallying cry for a

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Speaker 3: sitting president to be removed and people talking about the

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Speaker 3: twenty fifth Amendment.

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Speaker 4: I have never witnessed that professionally.

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Speaker 1: Actually, no, we haven't, and I'm trying to think of

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Speaker 1: in our life, tousins we've been on earth, have we

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Speaker 1: ever had a president in which they ever were questioned

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Speaker 1: in such a way that this person's gone mad?

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Speaker 3: Correct, like their mental health was, yes, specifically in question.

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Speaker 3: Jo Biden's the only other president where I know people

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Speaker 3: were curious or questioning where he was, what he was

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Speaker 3: capable of mentally and physically. But never I still didn't

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Speaker 3: hear the twenty fifth Amendment being talked about the.

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Speaker 1: President right now, Versident Trump still who Sinhala's that the

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Speaker 1: twenty fifth should have been invoked when it comes to Biden.

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Speaker 1: But Section four says this, whenever the Vice President and

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Speaker 1: a majority of either the principal officers of the executive

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Speaker 1: departments or of such other body as Congress may by

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Speaker 1: law provide transmit to the President pro tempt of the

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Speaker 1: Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives, their

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Speaker 1: written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the

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Speaker 1: powers and duties of his office, the President shall immediately

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Speaker 1: assume the powers and duties of the office as acting president.

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Speaker 1: That says they have to take a vote. The majority

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Speaker 1: of that cabinet have to say, Yep, we don't think

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Speaker 1: this guy is capable of continuing. They have to let

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Speaker 1: the Congress know. Congress then has to vote. The president,

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Speaker 1: who is sideline, gets a chance to make his case,

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Speaker 1: and then is two thirds of Congress has to vote

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Speaker 1: for him whether or not the acting Vice president or

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Speaker 1: the acting president continues. So it's not just a matter

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Speaker 1: of the cabinet. There's a whole legal process that would

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Speaker 1: be fascinating to watch.

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Speaker 2: No chance that no change.

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Speaker 1: You're gonna get two thirds of Congress to say this

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Speaker 1: guy is incapable of continuing in the office, right.

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Speaker 4: I don't think so. And his cabinet, you're not gonna

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Speaker 4: get a hat. You're not gonna get.

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Speaker 3: Two of them, obviously, No within his cabinet, that's the

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Speaker 3: stuff that's right there.

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Speaker 4: That's not going to happen, clearly.

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Speaker 3: But I just to me, I'm imagining if not these

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Speaker 3: last few truth social posts that we've witnessed. Then what

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Speaker 3: I mean, that's what scares me because each time we

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Speaker 3: have been talking about his leadership this second term NonStop,

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Speaker 3: and we constantly are doing podcasts saying he's just dropped,

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Speaker 3: dropped my jaw again, he's just surprised me again. Just

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Speaker 3: when I think he couldn't do something that's more shocking,

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Speaker 3: he does, And Babe, it just continues to happen.

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Speaker 4: So I just don't know where it's headed, Like what's next?

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Speaker 2: This isn't going to make you feel good.

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Speaker 1: But I did read several I really want to give

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Speaker 1: this person credit, but I was reading a a legal

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Speaker 1: scholar constitutional scholar trying to explain bad acts don't constitute

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Speaker 1: somebody not capable of pulling off the job. Just because

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Speaker 1: you don't like what that person's doing, how crazy what

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Speaker 1: that person is doing might seem to you. Are they

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Speaker 1: capable of making the decision? Doesn't matter what the decision is. Wow,

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Speaker 1: So it's such a high bar constitutionally, even you can't

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Speaker 1: just make the decision. That's an unhinged statement. Okay, was

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Speaker 1: he capable of composing a tweet doesn't mean he's incapable

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Speaker 1: just because you don't like what he's doing.

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Speaker 3: That's unfortunate, But what if it's dangerous, It's not about

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Speaker 3: me liking it or not.

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Speaker 1: Who gets what'sous dangers? Who gets to deem people make

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Speaker 1: angerous decisions every day as leaders, so they're in lines

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Speaker 1: are but twenty fifth Amendment. The conversation did start to

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Speaker 1: swell up more in the past forty eight hours. Who

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Speaker 1: knows how much it will continue, but we wanted to

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Speaker 1: hop on and be a part of that conversation as well.

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Speaker 1: Always appreciate you being a part of it with us.

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Speaker 1: For my dear Ammy Robot, I am TJ. Holmes and

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Speaker 1: we will talk to y'all soon.