1 00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:03,640 Speaker 1: Hey, I'm Barratune Day Thurston and this is how to 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:08,560 Speaker 1: citizen With Bartune Day in season two, we're talking about 3 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: the money, because, to be real, it's hard to citizen 4 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:22,000 Speaker 1: when we can barely pay the bills. I was born 5 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 1: in the future. Technically, the year was nineteen seventy seven, 6 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 1: and you could argue that that is before now and 7 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: therefore the past. But I was born in the future 8 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:35,879 Speaker 1: because I was born to my mother, Arnita Lorraine Thurston, 9 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:40,480 Speaker 1: and she was a computer programmer in the late nineteen seventies, 10 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 1: making her from the future me a child of the future. 11 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:49,720 Speaker 1: That's why I say I was born in the future. 12 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 1: She was an almost literal hidden figure. Do you know 13 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:57,760 Speaker 1: how many black women computer programmers there were in the 14 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 1: late nineteen seventies and early nineteen eighties, My mom, that's 15 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:04,919 Speaker 1: how many there was. There were, my mom, many black 16 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: female programmers in in that time period. We had a 17 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:14,559 Speaker 1: computer in our house starting around I was six years old, 18 00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:17,920 Speaker 1: the only house in the hood with a computer. I 19 00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 1: am pretty sure of that. I had a computer in 20 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:24,200 Speaker 1: my house more than a decade before I would ever 21 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 1: have a girlfriend in my house. So I was very 22 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:32,200 Speaker 1: involved with the technology and I remember getting online in 23 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:35,759 Speaker 1: the early nineteen nineties, which just you plugged the computer 24 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 1: into the phone in the wall by way of this modem, 25 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 1: this dial up modem, and getting online. That was an event, 26 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 1: a loud event. The screeching and the beeping, all kinds 27 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:55,480 Speaker 1: of digital do hicky is happening in the background. You 28 00:01:55,560 --> 00:02:00,520 Speaker 1: knew you were entering a new world of information. When 29 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 1: I started going to a pretty fancy high school, my 30 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:06,919 Speaker 1: mind was further blown because we had a full time, 31 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:11,239 Speaker 1: always on Internet connection running at about one point five 32 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:17,040 Speaker 1: megabits per second. Everything I have done creatively and professionally 33 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 1: since my childhood has been built on this platform of 34 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:27,840 Speaker 1: technology and access to good Internet. My newsletters in college, 35 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:31,520 Speaker 1: my first job out of college, every job post college, 36 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 1: Daily Show, The Onion, everything in between, this podcast. It's 37 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:42,800 Speaker 1: all possible because of technology and the Internet. My mother's 38 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 1: earning potential went up massively because of technology. My whole 39 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 1: employment has been Internet powered. This is not just tech. 40 00:02:53,160 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 1: This is economics, very personal economics. And when OVID hit 41 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 1: it revealed a lot of disparities in our society, but 42 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 1: one of the clearest signs was the lack of quality 43 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 1: Internet access for so many of us at home and 44 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:15,239 Speaker 1: at home became a very essential servant. School at home, 45 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 1: work at home, church at home, happy hour at home. 46 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:23,639 Speaker 1: You know what I'm talking about. The Internet is critical 47 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 1: infrastructure which enables our economy, and without it it sets 48 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:32,080 Speaker 1: all of us back. I think the Internet should be 49 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 1: more like a public utility, less like the privately controlled 50 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 1: system run by phone companies and cable companies, both of 51 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 1: whom we hate. Like if I thought about the companies 52 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 1: I really don't like, it would be tough to choose 53 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:51,680 Speaker 1: between the phone company and the cable company. But they've 54 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 1: been in charge, charging us more money than the average 55 00:03:55,520 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 1: industrialized nation for slower speeds and less access, less coverage 56 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 1: all around. The Internet is as important and essential as 57 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 1: roads and electricity and water. Let's treat it that way. 58 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:19,479 Speaker 1: A necessity, not a luxury. YEA. I would challenge you 59 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:23,359 Speaker 1: by asking, when the cable company owns the line and 60 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:26,800 Speaker 1: they own the content, can they control the price and 61 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:29,560 Speaker 1: is that a monopoly? And I would say the answer 62 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:33,719 Speaker 1: is yes. After the break, how a conservative town in 63 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:38,120 Speaker 1: southeastern Idaho did a pretty radical act and put broadband 64 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 1: into the hands of the people. Before we get into 65 00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 1: this episode, there's something you need to know. We're gonna 66 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 1: get technical, so it's time for edge you tune day. 67 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 1: Oh I've wanted to say that for such a long time. 68 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:09,160 Speaker 1: Now listen, I'm what you call a broadband NERD. Will 69 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 1: be more on that later, And I recognize that not 70 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 1: everybody understands all this technical jargon, so let's break down 71 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 1: a few terms you're gonna be hearing in this interview. 72 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 1: Our focus today is on municipal broadband, and it's pretty simple, 73 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:25,840 Speaker 1: despite having a lot of syllables. Municipal is just a 74 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:29,600 Speaker 1: fancy word meaning local government run. Think of the streets, 75 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 1: the post offices, the public schools, and our communities, and 76 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 1: broadband is how we connect to the Internet. If you 77 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:39,919 Speaker 1: think of the Internet as a highway system, broadband is 78 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:43,159 Speaker 1: our own ramp, and it usually refers to higher speed 79 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:46,599 Speaker 1: ways of connecting to that network instead of slow old 80 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 1: school dialogue. When you put these two things together, municipal broadband, 81 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:54,520 Speaker 1: it means our access to the Internet is owned by 82 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:59,600 Speaker 1: we the people via our local government. Boom Glass, this 83 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 1: man now to Bruce. Hello, Bruce, thank you for being here. 84 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:10,599 Speaker 1: Why don't we start with you introducing yourself. Just say 85 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 1: your name and what you do. So I'm Bruce Patterson. 86 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:16,039 Speaker 1: I'm the technology director for the City of Ammon. I've 87 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 1: been there for about seventeen years. Can you paint me 88 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:21,919 Speaker 1: a picture of this city? What are the people of 89 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:25,920 Speaker 1: Ammon like. It's in the southeast corner of Idaho, so 90 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:29,240 Speaker 1: we're just east of Oregon in Washington, and we have 91 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:32,719 Speaker 1: a very small population, very very low density compared with 92 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:36,600 Speaker 1: many other states. Very conservative. If their natives here and 93 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:39,479 Speaker 1: they were born and raised here, it's a lot of farming. 94 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 1: Potato farming, you know. You hear that about Idaho potatoes, 95 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 1: Idah Hope it's a it is. That's a real thing. 96 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:47,480 Speaker 1: It is. It's a real thing. And I moved in 97 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 1: when I was probably nine ten years old, and I've 98 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 1: been I went to fourth grade here. So as far 99 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:55,600 Speaker 1: as as far as my life goes, realistically, I'm as 100 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 1: close to a native as you can get. That's reflected 101 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:00,919 Speaker 1: because I get I get some pretty good rates on 102 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 1: my hunting and fishing licenses for the number of years 103 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:06,240 Speaker 1: i've been here. And that's how you know, you can 104 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 1: quantify your connection to the place based on the price 105 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:12,840 Speaker 1: of the hunting and fishing one. There's my proof right there. 106 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 1: So when did you first start working for the City 107 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:20,760 Speaker 1: of Ammon. So I started in two thousand four, July one, 108 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 1: two thousand four. Why do you remember the date? What 109 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 1: happened that day? It's a big change. I was in 110 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:29,520 Speaker 1: the plumbing and mechanical business for years, so I'm actually 111 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:31,840 Speaker 1: a plumber. That's how I raised my children, That's how 112 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 1: I paid my bills. So I actually came onto the 113 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:37,360 Speaker 1: City of Ammon as a plumbing and mechanical inspector. I 114 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 1: was the fourth person in the whole city building. What 115 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 1: do you mean you were the fourth person in the 116 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 1: whole city building? There were three people in the office. 117 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 1: I was the fourth, like total, not just that day, 118 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 1: just as a general starting. So I got a little 119 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 1: office space and it was like this little tiny town, 120 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 1: this little tiny thing, and uh, this is how I 121 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:00,120 Speaker 1: got it. They would go to print the util an 122 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:03,239 Speaker 1: the bills and it wouldn't work, and so they go, hey, Bruce, 123 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 1: can you come look at this? And I go look 124 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 1: at it, and I get the utility bills to print. 125 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 1: So somehow another that that evolved over the next two 126 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 1: years that I became their I T person and they 127 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 1: offered me a full time job as their I T persons. Wait, 128 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 1: did they ask you for help with the printer? Because 129 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 1: they knew you were a plumber and they figured this 130 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 1: guy knows how to fix things. So in another life, 131 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 1: I actually went to college for a year for programming. 132 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 1: In nineteen eighty two, I went to Idaho State University, 133 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 1: and so I did a year's college and that and 134 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:34,559 Speaker 1: decided that that wasn't for me, that that I was 135 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 1: ready at my point in life, that I was going 136 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:38,200 Speaker 1: to get married, have a family, and that I had 137 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:40,839 Speaker 1: a construction background. So I went ahead and and made 138 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:43,840 Speaker 1: a living doing that. But it became apparent to the 139 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 1: folks when I came into city of Ammon that I 140 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:48,439 Speaker 1: could do some of that stuff. And in two thousand 141 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:49,960 Speaker 1: six they came to me and they said, hey, you know, 142 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:51,960 Speaker 1: we're just we're really thinking we could use a full 143 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:53,959 Speaker 1: time I T. Guy. And at this point the city 144 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:56,359 Speaker 1: had grown. I'd have to count the number of employees, 145 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:59,319 Speaker 1: but for sure it tripled as we needed I T support. 146 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 1: And so they offered it to me and I took it. 147 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 1: This is we share something here, so I uh. I 148 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:11,440 Speaker 1: grew up around computers. My mom was a programmer in 149 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:14,400 Speaker 1: coball way back in the day. So i've i've I've 150 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 1: seen colball code in the eighties in my childhood, and 151 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:21,079 Speaker 1: then later in my own life, I became the person 152 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:22,959 Speaker 1: because I knew a little bit more about computers and 153 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:26,280 Speaker 1: everybody else that got called on to fix the printer 154 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 1: at school. So I'm fixing the punter at my high school. 155 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:33,480 Speaker 1: And that would, you know, segue into becoming a job 156 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:35,959 Speaker 1: for me in college where I was an I T 157 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:40,200 Speaker 1: person and that helped pay for my college degree. I 158 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:43,559 Speaker 1: I owe my college degree in no small part to 159 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 1: failing computers or humans failing at computers. Yeah, right, So 160 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:51,680 Speaker 1: you know, I enjoyed the work they offered it to me, 161 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:54,240 Speaker 1: and and I felt like it was an opportunity for 162 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:56,680 Speaker 1: me to do something I kind of always wanted to do, 163 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:00,280 Speaker 1: and so I decided, yeah, that'd be a funch change. 164 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:03,480 Speaker 1: It was. It was a little bit, I won't lie 165 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 1: to you, as a little nerve racking, because you know, 166 00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:09,080 Speaker 1: all my training, all my skill set was in another direction, 167 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:10,840 Speaker 1: and I was like, can I really do this because 168 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 1: I don't really have a sheet of paper to hang 169 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:15,400 Speaker 1: on the wall that says I do know how to 170 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 1: do it, But Once I got into it and got going, 171 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:20,560 Speaker 1: I felt like, oh yeah, I like this. I can 172 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:25,440 Speaker 1: do this. So talk to me about the leap or 173 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 1: the step. What's the transition from your work fixing the printers, 174 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 1: always fixing the printers? Uh, go from there to internet access? 175 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:38,840 Speaker 1: What's that journey? The organizational structure within the city of 176 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 1: Ammon was that a department head And believe it or not, 177 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 1: I was a one man department. But they we have 178 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 1: a liaison with the city council member. I was assigned 179 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:51,120 Speaker 1: Brian Powell. So Brian Powell moved into Ammon from Boise, Idaho. 180 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:55,079 Speaker 1: Now Brian started a business called now Disk. Now disc 181 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:58,560 Speaker 1: used to stamp c ds, so they would make they 182 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:01,319 Speaker 1: would make CDs and they were the CDs that got 183 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:05,040 Speaker 1: shipped with new PCs. And he decided that he was 184 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 1: tired of living in in very metro Boise, Idaho, and 185 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:10,240 Speaker 1: he decided he wanted to live over on the east 186 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:14,000 Speaker 1: side of the state around Amman, Idaho. And he was 187 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:17,320 Speaker 1: expressing to me some disappointment with where he chose to 188 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:22,720 Speaker 1: locate his business because he had access to pretty slow bandwidth. 189 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 1: And the issue was the manufacturers of these PCs would 190 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:30,480 Speaker 1: want to send him a new image of a CD 191 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:34,880 Speaker 1: to stamp, and it would take him all night and 192 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:37,840 Speaker 1: into the next day to basically download this image because 193 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 1: that's how they would give it to talking. That would 194 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 1: have been in two thousand seven two thou eight, right 195 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:49,720 Speaker 1: around there. So he was lamenting the lack of bandwidth 196 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:53,600 Speaker 1: and that if he chose in a location based on bandwidth, 197 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:56,040 Speaker 1: he could technically get that in just a few hours 198 00:11:56,679 --> 00:12:00,199 Speaker 1: because there was a municipal fiber optic network in id 199 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:04,319 Speaker 1: Whole Falls, which is immediately adjacent to Ammon. So I 200 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 1: want to pause you there. Can you define municipal fiber network? 201 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 1: And what is fiber besides that thing we hear is 202 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 1: good for our digestive system. So when I use that term, 203 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:21,360 Speaker 1: I'm saying that it's fiber optic infrastructure that is owned 204 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:27,200 Speaker 1: by the city. And fiber is actually glass. It really 205 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 1: is just glass, and it's smaller than the diameter of 206 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 1: the human hair by a very measurable amount. And we 207 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:38,360 Speaker 1: shoot infrared light down it. We turn that light off 208 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:42,559 Speaker 1: and on and pulses, and that conveys data down the fiber. 209 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:46,520 Speaker 1: The value of fiber is we could technically run a 210 00:12:46,559 --> 00:12:51,440 Speaker 1: fiber from the West coast to Japan in one piece 211 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 1: and shoot that light from the West coast to Japan 212 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 1: and have that signal go. You could never do that 213 00:12:56,840 --> 00:13:00,320 Speaker 1: with copper or any other media. Okay, fiber is Jake. 214 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:06,040 Speaker 1: I remember for myself, um, roughly around this time two 215 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 1: thousand nine, I had to move apartments, and the most 216 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:17,720 Speaker 1: important amenity was internet access. And so I would go 217 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:21,319 Speaker 1: to these websites DSL reports, dot com and plugging a 218 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 1: zip code, plugging an address and see what providers at 219 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:28,880 Speaker 1: what speeds were available. And it was the deciding factor 220 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:32,559 Speaker 1: and where I chose to live because there was fiber 221 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:37,240 Speaker 1: in the building. It unlocked so much awesome for my life. 222 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 1: And in fact, my home internet was better than the 223 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:41,840 Speaker 1: one in my office. So there were times when I'd 224 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:44,320 Speaker 1: call in sick just because I could work better from 225 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:48,319 Speaker 1: home than anybody else. I really do. I think in 226 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:50,679 Speaker 1: that same time period, I was struggling with the same thing, 227 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:53,440 Speaker 1: and that was New York City, you know, the big 228 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:57,080 Speaker 1: metro New York City, where we supposedly had everything anyone 229 00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:00,680 Speaker 1: could ever need. How would you define how internet access 230 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:05,079 Speaker 1: in America works? From a high level, That's a good question. 231 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:08,240 Speaker 1: I would actually flip that on its head a little 232 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:10,280 Speaker 1: bit and ask you what is it you actually need 233 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:14,240 Speaker 1: from your internet service provider. I think you're really paying 234 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 1: them for two things. Some infrastructure to get you to 235 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:19,520 Speaker 1: a point where you can plug into the internet. So 236 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 1: you're paying for a wire or a fiber to plug in. 237 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 1: That's one thing you're paying or a wireless signal. Right, yeah, 238 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:27,880 Speaker 1: so you're paying them to take you there, that's one thing. 239 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 1: The second thing you're paying them for is a globally 240 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:35,160 Speaker 1: unique address. So those are the two things you're paying for. 241 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 1: That's how it works. And it started with dial up, 242 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 1: so you really could only get it on the phone line. 243 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 1: That was it. You couldn't really get it any other way. Well, 244 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:50,600 Speaker 1: the phone systems are regulated system, but it's regulated for voice, 245 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:54,120 Speaker 1: not for Internet. But Internet was kind of this cool thing, 246 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:57,040 Speaker 1: and what the phone company figured out was, you know what, 247 00:14:57,640 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 1: some of these families got people on the internet so 248 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:02,200 Speaker 1: much still pay for a second phone line just to 249 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:05,720 Speaker 1: dial up, right, And so you remember that in the 250 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:09,120 Speaker 1: nineties that happened. But then long along comes to this 251 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:13,520 Speaker 1: protocol called dox is. So dox is is the protocol 252 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 1: that happens on a cable coax line. So now that 253 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:22,200 Speaker 1: cable company can give you Internet, and the phone company 254 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 1: can give you Internet using what they called DSL, and 255 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 1: the cable company started to compete, which wasn't a bad 256 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:31,880 Speaker 1: deal because it was still a luxury, it wasn't a necessity. 257 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 1: But now we're saying everybody needs it, and we've got 258 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:40,440 Speaker 1: two monopoly infrastructures that were never designed to compete, one 259 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:44,000 Speaker 1: of them regulated and the other one completely driven by profit, 260 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 1: open market capitalism as it should be, and they're actually competing. 261 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:52,480 Speaker 1: And the question becomes, do we all have enough money 262 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 1: to support too or three or four infrastructures just to 263 00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 1: have choice in our services? That's the question. Yeah, so 264 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:12,120 Speaker 1: you did a service in explaining that our access to 265 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:20,880 Speaker 1: the Internet initiated on telephone infrastructure, very government regulated telephone infrastructure, 266 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:24,600 Speaker 1: then evolved to be able to live on cable television 267 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:29,600 Speaker 1: coax infrastructure, which is far less regulated. You have unregulated 268 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 1: competing with regulated for customer dollars. Yep. Why did we 269 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 1: not decide at that stage, as the Internet became more essential, 270 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:47,240 Speaker 1: to make it all live on public infrastructure. So just 271 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:52,320 Speaker 1: because it's regulated doesn't mean it's public. It just means 272 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 1: that they have to fall within regulated rates, which means 273 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 1: that somebody, a commission somewhere that we're going to call 274 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 1: the Public Utilities Commission, sits down and looks at the 275 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:05,240 Speaker 1: bills that are incurred through the operation of this particular 276 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:09,120 Speaker 1: infrastructure and decides what reasonable and fair rates are. We've 277 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:12,199 Speaker 1: been doing that on power infrastructure for decades. It's it 278 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 1: was way ahead of this, and so you know, to me, 279 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:20,920 Speaker 1: that's the example. You've got both public and private power operators. 280 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 1: So let me kind of backtrack to the question you ask, 281 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 1: which is why didn't we do it. Somebody's bowl is 282 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:31,040 Speaker 1: going to get gored. We just admitted their monopoly infrastructures. 283 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:33,920 Speaker 1: One of them is regulated and it's pretty much been 284 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:38,480 Speaker 1: supported by universal service, so the public is paid into 285 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 1: building it out and what we would call high cost areas. 286 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:47,280 Speaker 1: Help someone who doesn't understand how the telephone network has 287 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:51,680 Speaker 1: a universal service requirement? What does that mean? So when 288 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:54,919 Speaker 1: the phone company started, we had an epiphany, and that 289 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:58,320 Speaker 1: epiphany was the value of this whole wire is that 290 00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:01,879 Speaker 1: it gets to everybody. We're diminishing the value if we 291 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:07,240 Speaker 1: don't make it ubiquitous, and ubiquitous means it goes everywhere. Rights. 292 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:11,239 Speaker 1: So what we decided was their geographic locations with very 293 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:13,480 Speaker 1: dense populations, and it doesn't cost very much to put 294 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:15,880 Speaker 1: it in there. In fact, in their phone bill, they're 295 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:19,280 Speaker 1: paying enough that they can cover maintaining that, getting it 296 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:22,000 Speaker 1: built out and do it. But when we get into 297 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:24,960 Speaker 1: the rules and we've got miles between homes, how are 298 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 1: we going to connect these people because the cost is 299 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:30,439 Speaker 1: completely different. So we call those high cost areas. And 300 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:33,719 Speaker 1: what they decided was, we're going to charge a small 301 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:36,879 Speaker 1: fee that goes into what we're gonna call a universal 302 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:40,119 Speaker 1: service fund, and that money is going to be collected 303 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:42,080 Speaker 1: and then it will be go to these rural areas 304 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:44,120 Speaker 1: to help push down the cost for them to build 305 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:49,480 Speaker 1: and connect those very distant addresses. So that that's the 306 00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 1: regulation that we're talking about that got the phone system 307 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:54,000 Speaker 1: built out. And you know, Frankly, you can look at 308 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 1: the history of it, it was the envy of the world. 309 00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:59,240 Speaker 1: I mean, our phone rates were phenomenal, and this idea 310 00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:01,960 Speaker 1: that we had homes out in the rurals back in 311 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 1: the sixties and seventies that were connected at the rates 312 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:08,679 Speaker 1: we were paying. Other countries came in and tried to 313 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:10,800 Speaker 1: emulate and started to do what we were doing. So 314 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:12,800 Speaker 1: it was it was a fantastic system. It was a 315 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:16,440 Speaker 1: great system. Then along comes the cable company. They never 316 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:19,680 Speaker 1: asked for any money, they didn't ask for any government support. 317 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:23,520 Speaker 1: They didn't They built out with investment from private investors, 318 00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:27,159 Speaker 1: started to connect homes and they were able to charge 319 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 1: enough that they could bring enough revenue in that they 320 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:32,320 Speaker 1: were profitable and they had money to just continue to 321 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:35,200 Speaker 1: grow their footprints. And if you look closely, you're gonna 322 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 1: find that cable companies don't exist in very rural locations. 323 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:42,160 Speaker 1: And that's the reason why because there's no private sector 324 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:45,040 Speaker 1: way to fund it. They don't have a universal service 325 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:47,640 Speaker 1: fund to do it. But now if we come along 326 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:49,199 Speaker 1: and we say, hey, we don't care where it is. 327 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 1: We're gonna use one infrastructure and we're gonna find a 328 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:55,920 Speaker 1: way to make this essential service as cost effective as possible, 329 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:58,520 Speaker 1: and we're gonna put some regulatory framework on it to 330 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:02,639 Speaker 1: to get it everywhere. Somebody's gonna lose out on that. 331 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:07,199 Speaker 1: Somebody's gonna say I made an investment, you're taking that 332 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:11,679 Speaker 1: away from me. That's my infrastructure, and you're diminishing the 333 00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:15,720 Speaker 1: value of it. After I've invested in it. So the 334 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 1: way you described how a public infrastructure evolved around the 335 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:27,080 Speaker 1: telephone network and the value of it. Right, the idea 336 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:30,679 Speaker 1: that the more connections there are, the more valuable the 337 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:36,280 Speaker 1: network is. Universal telephone service makes the whole phone network 338 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:39,399 Speaker 1: much more valuable and is a greater asset to the nation. 339 00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:41,399 Speaker 1: Other nations are coming looking at our stuff. How do 340 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:44,200 Speaker 1: you do that. I've heard that same story talk about 341 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:47,680 Speaker 1: our postal service, another type of network, and we had 342 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 1: the most advanced postal system earlier than most other nations, 343 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:53,560 Speaker 1: even nations that have been around a very long time 344 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:56,359 Speaker 1: with a lot of resources. And it also sounds to 345 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:58,720 Speaker 1: me like you you could have been talking about a 346 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:05,440 Speaker 1: health care delivery net. Right. Universality increases the value to everybody. 347 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:10,160 Speaker 1: So I think as a concept, I'm right there with you. 348 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:17,840 Speaker 1: A public broadband network, a universal broadband network, um has 349 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:22,400 Speaker 1: greater value then this fragmented universe where some have access 350 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:24,840 Speaker 1: and some don't. How have I done with that summer? 351 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:28,880 Speaker 1: That's good, that's good. I'm gonna interject one thing at 352 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 1: this point. This is important to me because I think 353 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:35,119 Speaker 1: when I start talking about the need for public infrastructure, 354 00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:36,960 Speaker 1: because I believe that's really what we need. This is 355 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:40,920 Speaker 1: really an infrastructure problem, and I think that's a key aspect. 356 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:43,720 Speaker 1: But as I say that, while I feel like that's 357 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 1: so critical, I also believe this there is a place 358 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:54,240 Speaker 1: for everybody at the table. So besides building public infrastructure, 359 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:57,159 Speaker 1: I personally believe that we're missing the boat if we 360 00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:00,119 Speaker 1: don't create a framework that allows a private owner or 361 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 1: that owns some broadband infrastructure away to become that regulated provider. 362 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:08,919 Speaker 1: And I just think that framework needs to be present. 363 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:15,480 Speaker 1: How would you describe the effect on Americans from having 364 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:20,720 Speaker 1: a largely privatized broadband infrastructure. We're paying a lot, and 365 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 1: in some cases the service is not bad. In some 366 00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:25,640 Speaker 1: cases it is very bad. But we're paying a lot 367 00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:30,480 Speaker 1: and we're redlining. So redlining is the phrase where you 368 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:32,960 Speaker 1: take a look at a geographic area and you say, well, 369 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:36,440 Speaker 1: this area I can make work, I can make it profitable, 370 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:38,560 Speaker 1: and therefore I'll make the investment in this area I 371 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:40,520 Speaker 1: can't and so I'm simply not going to build in 372 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:43,040 Speaker 1: that area or I'm not going to offer service. As 373 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:46,440 Speaker 1: as long as we're doing this out of a purely 374 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:49,520 Speaker 1: capitalistic approach, I mean, you gotta love it. It does 375 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:52,760 Speaker 1: some good things capitalism, competition, it's great, but if it 376 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:55,720 Speaker 1: is the only driver, we are going to have those 377 00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:59,440 Speaker 1: that are unserved, and it's going to be really tough 378 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:05,360 Speaker 1: to to get fair educational opportunities to everybody, to get 379 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:09,120 Speaker 1: fair health opportunities or healthcare to people. Some of those 380 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:11,240 Speaker 1: things are going to be pretty limited by that. As 381 00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:13,840 Speaker 1: a consequence. I want to follow through on that last 382 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:17,359 Speaker 1: point because I can hear an argument which says, we 383 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:23,159 Speaker 1: are a capitalist society and you are guaranteed things in 384 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:26,040 Speaker 1: that society. You work harder, you make more money, you 385 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:29,640 Speaker 1: pay for better stuff. So why is that not good 386 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:33,560 Speaker 1: enough when it comes to broadband? Why do you think 387 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:36,360 Speaker 1: that needs to be universal and on a public infrastructure 388 00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:41,360 Speaker 1: versus letting the market decide where this network goes, how 389 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:44,920 Speaker 1: fast it moves, and what price people pay to get 390 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:48,880 Speaker 1: access to it. The problem is is that the infrastructure 391 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:52,000 Speaker 1: is a natural monopoly. There's an author that I really like, 392 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:55,200 Speaker 1: Susan Crawford. She compares it this way back in the 393 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:57,560 Speaker 1: day when we had railroads. Railroads were the way you 394 00:23:57,560 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 1: shipped everything. That was before we had highways and for 395 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:04,040 Speaker 1: car and these railroads they built out and they somewhat 396 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:06,119 Speaker 1: competed with each other. They kind of just stayed out 397 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:09,240 Speaker 1: each other with way and more or less sectioned off 398 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:11,119 Speaker 1: areas of the country and said this is mine, this 399 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:16,639 Speaker 1: is yours. Then they were shipping packages, so now it 400 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:21,280 Speaker 1: gets interesting. They had enough money they started to buy 401 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:25,920 Speaker 1: the manufacturing and the packages. So now not only are 402 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:30,680 Speaker 1: they the transport, but it's actually they're goods. That's when 403 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:33,640 Speaker 1: we first started to get law that said you can't 404 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 1: do that. So that was the introduction of the government 405 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:39,000 Speaker 1: stepping in and saying that's monopoly because what they actually 406 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:42,960 Speaker 1: doing is preventing any other manufacturer from selling a product, 407 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:44,880 Speaker 1: and they could control the price of that product because 408 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:47,399 Speaker 1: they wouldn't ship the competitor's product on their rail line. 409 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:51,280 Speaker 1: So I would challenge you by asking, when the cable 410 00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:54,960 Speaker 1: company owns the line and they own the content, can 411 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:59,159 Speaker 1: they control the price? And is that a monopoly? And 412 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:05,760 Speaker 1: I would say the ants here is yes. After the break, 413 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,520 Speaker 1: Bruce shows us how the small town of Ammon broke 414 00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:12,399 Speaker 1: free from big broadband monopolies and became a contender for 415 00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:28,480 Speaker 1: the world's most affordable high speed internet. M hm. So 416 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:31,440 Speaker 1: I want to go back in time, your I t 417 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,960 Speaker 1: director for the City of Ammon. Can you describe the 418 00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:38,440 Speaker 1: moment when you first decided to take on this cause 419 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:43,520 Speaker 1: of public broadband infrastructure. Well, so I already introduced you 420 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:45,600 Speaker 1: to Brian Powell had a city council member that said, 421 00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:47,920 Speaker 1: you look, Bruce, you know you need to go out 422 00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:50,080 Speaker 1: and you need to figure out how the City of 423 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:54,200 Speaker 1: Ammon can drive the price of connectivity down. I want 424 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:56,600 Speaker 1: to pay less for internet and I want more bandwidth. 425 00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:59,560 Speaker 1: I want better connectivity, and the city should be able 426 00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:03,359 Speaker 1: to find a way to influence that outcome. Go figure 427 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:05,239 Speaker 1: out how to make that happen, and go look at 428 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:08,920 Speaker 1: what Idle Falls has done. So I embarked on a 429 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 1: I call them field trips. So I learned best by 430 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:14,960 Speaker 1: going and looking what somebody else has done. So I 431 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:18,120 Speaker 1: actually went and looked at what Idle Falls had done. 432 00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:20,840 Speaker 1: I went down to some cities in Utah that formed 433 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:24,360 Speaker 1: an inner governmental operation called Utopia, and they had sixteen 434 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:26,119 Speaker 1: cities that had built fiber to each other. And I 435 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:28,080 Speaker 1: went looked at how they were doing it. And then 436 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:29,840 Speaker 1: I went to some phone companies in Idaho, and I 437 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,000 Speaker 1: went to some phone companies in Oregon. I went to 438 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:34,879 Speaker 1: some phone companies in Wyoming, and I looked at how 439 00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:38,000 Speaker 1: they did it, and I started to ask myself what 440 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 1: would it cost, where would the money come from, How 441 00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:43,720 Speaker 1: how did they get there's built? Is there any way 442 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:45,919 Speaker 1: the city could participate in that? Is there such a 443 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,560 Speaker 1: thing as a municipal phone company? And I dug into 444 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:51,840 Speaker 1: all the details, and at the end of the day, 445 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 1: I came back about a year two later and I said, 446 00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,439 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Brian, but it's not going to happen. We 447 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:04,000 Speaker 1: can't do this. It costs too much money. Uh. There 448 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:07,800 Speaker 1: there are regulated companies that have like the phone company, 449 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:11,360 Speaker 1: that can borrow money at a guaranteed rate of return 450 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,440 Speaker 1: and get support to get homes connected. The cable company 451 00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:17,400 Speaker 1: is already there. And I just didn't see any way 452 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:19,680 Speaker 1: we could rationally do it. So I kind of told Brian, 453 00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:21,560 Speaker 1: can't do that. Well, then we kind of we had 454 00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:23,760 Speaker 1: a little bit of an economic crisis, if we recall 455 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:26,960 Speaker 1: around two thousand and eight, two thousand nine, and the 456 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:29,440 Speaker 1: president at the time came up with a Recovery Act, 457 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 1: remember that, and and there were what we called our dollars, 458 00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:36,480 Speaker 1: and so there was some Recovery Act money that municipalities 459 00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:39,600 Speaker 1: could tap if they wanted to build a municipal broadband system. 460 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:41,719 Speaker 1: And so I I that caught my eye, and I 461 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:45,200 Speaker 1: started to do some research, and uh, it became clear 462 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:47,360 Speaker 1: to me we could apply as long as we've met 463 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:51,720 Speaker 1: certain rules. And so so we applied and we didn't 464 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:55,439 Speaker 1: get any funding. Well, when we didn't get funded, city 465 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:57,280 Speaker 1: council asked me to come in and make a report 466 00:27:57,320 --> 00:27:59,440 Speaker 1: because obviously we we spent some time and we spent 467 00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:01,359 Speaker 1: some money going to get this grant money, we didn't 468 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:03,760 Speaker 1: get it, and so they just really wanted to know Bruce, 469 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:06,440 Speaker 1: you know, just tell us flat out, why do you 470 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:10,199 Speaker 1: think why do you think they didn't fund us? And 471 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:13,440 Speaker 1: I said, the camel doesn't have its nose in the tent. 472 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:18,160 Speaker 1: You got going to go ahead and translate that one 473 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:21,960 Speaker 1: for me, Bruce. We weren't credible. We own no fiber. 474 00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:26,159 Speaker 1: We owned no fiber anywhere, We ran no network except 475 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:28,520 Speaker 1: for the networks that we're in our building. We outsourced 476 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:31,320 Speaker 1: all of our connectivity. We owned buildings that were connected, 477 00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:35,560 Speaker 1: but they were connected through DSL and VPNs, and so 478 00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:37,800 Speaker 1: I just don't think we were credible. We need to 479 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:40,239 Speaker 1: own a piece of fiber and operate it and we 480 00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:42,080 Speaker 1: needed to prove that we could do it, and then 481 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:45,080 Speaker 1: I thought we'd be credible. So they said, well, how 482 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:48,080 Speaker 1: would we do that? And I said, well, we need 483 00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 1: an upgraded connection between these two buildings, and we've been 484 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:53,200 Speaker 1: shopping this. We were just quoted eighty thou dollars to 485 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,960 Speaker 1: upgrade this connection. That's a huge investment, especially for a 486 00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:00,000 Speaker 1: little town. So I said, I think we could build 487 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:01,640 Speaker 1: it for less and then we could just run it. 488 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:04,920 Speaker 1: So city council meetings on Thursday night and they told 489 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:09,040 Speaker 1: me to go do it. And my head's kind of 490 00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:13,400 Speaker 1: swimming because I'm thinking there's no going back. I mean, 491 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:16,480 Speaker 1: for me, this was a big deal. One man, I 492 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:20,320 Speaker 1: t shop small town. Do I really want to do this? 493 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:23,560 Speaker 1: Because once it's in, or once I start and I 494 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:26,560 Speaker 1: expend this money, what do I say if it doesn't work? 495 00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:28,600 Speaker 1: Or do I really want to go down this path? 496 00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:31,280 Speaker 1: So I called up the consultant I've been working with. 497 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:33,720 Speaker 1: His name is Robert Peterson. I called Robert up. I said, 498 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:35,040 Speaker 1: I don't really know if I want to do this. 499 00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:37,240 Speaker 1: I think I got some I'm pretty jittery. I got 500 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,040 Speaker 1: some nerves about this. You know. He was a huge 501 00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:42,640 Speaker 1: help to me. He says, I think the thing that 502 00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:44,520 Speaker 1: I'd say to you is the journey of a thousand 503 00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:47,120 Speaker 1: miles starts with a single step, and he says, just 504 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:48,960 Speaker 1: worry about the step you gotta take, and if you 505 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:50,520 Speaker 1: know what that step is, take that one and the 506 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:54,440 Speaker 1: next one will become clear. That sounds like what the 507 00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:57,600 Speaker 1: swimming instructors at the y m c A tried to 508 00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,320 Speaker 1: teach me when they said it's time to swim now 509 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:02,600 Speaker 1: after all these lessons, and I said, I don't know 510 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 1: how to swim though, and they just threw us in 511 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:09,080 Speaker 1: the water and lo and behold, we kind of started 512 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:13,520 Speaker 1: swimming because our lives dependent on it. So your consultant 513 00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:17,640 Speaker 1: friend just just jump in the water and you did. Yeah, 514 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:21,200 Speaker 1: and he was right. I mean that first bit we 515 00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:24,680 Speaker 1: did because we were connecting city infrastructure. It was it 516 00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:26,959 Speaker 1: was an investment, meaning that it did cost more than 517 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,080 Speaker 1: we were paying monthly, but it did pay for itself 518 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:30,720 Speaker 1: over a period of years, and so it was a 519 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:35,120 Speaker 1: reasonable investment and we're still getting dividends on that. And 520 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:37,720 Speaker 1: that's really how we built out, as we just started 521 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,880 Speaker 1: one by one to connect one city address to another 522 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:44,240 Speaker 1: city address. And then once we kind of reached a 523 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:46,400 Speaker 1: certain scale and we had a certain amount of fiber 524 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:48,400 Speaker 1: out there. We had people start come to us, We 525 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:52,160 Speaker 1: had businesses, we had cell tower operators come to us 526 00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:54,280 Speaker 1: and say, Hey, your fibers just down the road here, 527 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:56,600 Speaker 1: could you stretch it to our tower because we've got 528 00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:59,040 Speaker 1: people that would use your fiber to connect to this tower. 529 00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:03,680 Speaker 1: So it sounds like the city of Ammin has created 530 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:07,960 Speaker 1: its own small network, initially to connect its own buildings 531 00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:12,480 Speaker 1: on roads and rights of way that it has control over. 532 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:17,880 Speaker 1: And now you've got non city entities businesses saying let 533 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:19,440 Speaker 1: me get a little taste of ad let me plug 534 00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:23,000 Speaker 1: into your network. So it sounds like you've created a 535 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:26,960 Speaker 1: competing network to the ones operated by a private company. 536 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,200 Speaker 1: How how did they respond to this new network in 537 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:37,280 Speaker 1: town run by the government, So they were not particularly pleased. However, 538 00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:39,560 Speaker 1: most of the people that were coming to us at 539 00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:41,800 Speaker 1: that point in time, we're coming to us because those 540 00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:46,920 Speaker 1: incumbents could not offer the bandwidth that we were delivering. 541 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:52,280 Speaker 1: Admittedly the price was significantly less, but they technically didn't 542 00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:55,240 Speaker 1: even have the infrastructure to offer the kind of bandwidth 543 00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:59,200 Speaker 1: we were giving, so they weren't particularly pleased about it. 544 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:03,320 Speaker 1: I will say that of those incumbents, all but one 545 00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:09,360 Speaker 1: of them now use our infrastructure, so they are customers too. Yes, 546 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 1: they have customers that don't even realize they're using the 547 00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:16,280 Speaker 1: city's infrastructure to connect them. So this is this, This 548 00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:20,240 Speaker 1: sounds like a big leap. You've got a small network 549 00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:22,840 Speaker 1: of city to city building connections that you own and 550 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,360 Speaker 1: operate because it saved you money in the long run. 551 00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:29,200 Speaker 1: Other businesses show up and say, can we plug into 552 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:32,840 Speaker 1: that too. Incumbent I s p s like whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. 553 00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:36,640 Speaker 1: You're you're poaching our customers. These are pretty good business customers. 554 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,960 Speaker 1: They should have been ours. And they grumble because you've 555 00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:46,560 Speaker 1: board their gord, Gord their ball, Gord their bowl, they 556 00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:49,720 Speaker 1: got their prize bowl. Yeah, and you gord their bowl. 557 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:54,120 Speaker 1: But you're telling me today those same internet service providers 558 00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:58,880 Speaker 1: are now selling access on your own network to their 559 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:02,680 Speaker 1: own customers. That is correct. So they're using our infrastructure 560 00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:07,720 Speaker 1: to make money and they're paying us to use it. Okay, 561 00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:09,560 Speaker 1: a lot of people are not going to see that coming. 562 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:12,400 Speaker 1: And part of the issue is is that even some 563 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:15,960 Speaker 1: of those providers that use some of this public infrastructure 564 00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:21,479 Speaker 1: don't particularly want that known, so they will say they 565 00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:24,000 Speaker 1: will say public infrastructure is going to kill our business model. 566 00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:26,440 Speaker 1: It will totally kill us. We can't survive it. That's 567 00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:29,960 Speaker 1: not necessarily true. Does it change their business model yes? 568 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:34,280 Speaker 1: Does it change their operational costs yes? Does it shift 569 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:36,600 Speaker 1: some of those costs to us? And do we now 570 00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:43,680 Speaker 1: have to have personnel trucks infrastructure yes? Okay, So when 571 00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:46,440 Speaker 1: do you start offering it at an access to just 572 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:52,280 Speaker 1: human citizens, non corporate entities. When does that start? It 573 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:56,800 Speaker 1: was always on our roadmap when we started our fiber system. 574 00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:00,760 Speaker 1: We drafted a city ordinance, and that city ordinance actually 575 00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:03,240 Speaker 1: laid out our strategy, our roadmap, and the homes were 576 00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:05,400 Speaker 1: the last thing on there. So it actually said we're 577 00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:07,320 Speaker 1: going to serve ourselves first. So it's first of all 578 00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:11,440 Speaker 1: for the city. Secondly it's for public safety and emergency responders. 579 00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:15,440 Speaker 1: Next it's for education, school districts and other public entities. 580 00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:19,200 Speaker 1: Then it's for businesses, and then it's for residences. And 581 00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:20,959 Speaker 1: so we laid it out and said that was our goal. 582 00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:23,759 Speaker 1: So I felt like we were at the point where 583 00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:26,480 Speaker 1: we had to figure out how we're gonna solve this 584 00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:29,280 Speaker 1: problem because it really, it really truly was a problem. 585 00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:32,680 Speaker 1: What was the problem Up to this point, everybody paid 586 00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:35,360 Speaker 1: their way, The city paid to connect its properties. Anything 587 00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:38,160 Speaker 1: that connected any other address was paid by somebody else. 588 00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:40,960 Speaker 1: But now I got to go into a neighborhood and 589 00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:43,719 Speaker 1: I need to connect homes. How do I do that 590 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,240 Speaker 1: at scale? How do I come up with a price 591 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:49,360 Speaker 1: to connect people? Because the cheapest home to connect is 592 00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:51,680 Speaker 1: the one closest to where I already have fiber, and 593 00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:53,879 Speaker 1: the most expensive one is the furthest one out. There 594 00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:57,879 Speaker 1: is there a legal way that I can charge them 595 00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:00,799 Speaker 1: all the same and connect the whole neighborhood. If there 596 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:03,960 Speaker 1: is that legal way, where's the money come from? So 597 00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:07,839 Speaker 1: what I found was improvement districts. So improvement districts are 598 00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:14,040 Speaker 1: mechanisms where property owners can basically aggregate their demand for 599 00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:18,520 Speaker 1: an improvement. In other words, they all want new sidewalks 600 00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,040 Speaker 1: through the whole neighborhood. How can they do that? How 601 00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:24,320 Speaker 1: can they make sure that everybody gets the same sidewalk 602 00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:26,920 Speaker 1: looks the same, and they're you know, so they do 603 00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:31,799 Speaker 1: an improvement district operating collectively. It sounds like yeah, And 604 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:34,400 Speaker 1: as I did the research, lo and behold, there's a 605 00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:36,879 Speaker 1: mechanism where you can build what they call an optional 606 00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:40,360 Speaker 1: improvement district, meaning that the property owners get the option 607 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:44,560 Speaker 1: of participating. So so you found a way to fund 608 00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:49,759 Speaker 1: getting broadband to neighborhoods by using this feature of of 609 00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:54,160 Speaker 1: municipal governance, the improvement district, and you have, okay, we 610 00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:56,239 Speaker 1: have an option improvement district. Raise your hands if you 611 00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:59,600 Speaker 1: want broadband, and and if enough say yes, then you're 612 00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:02,760 Speaker 1: in yep. So where it gets a little nerve wracking. 613 00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:05,320 Speaker 1: You gotta you got an area of three hundred homes 614 00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:08,920 Speaker 1: and thirty of them want connected. That cost is totally 615 00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:11,440 Speaker 1: different than all three hundred of them, or even a 616 00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:14,600 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty. So it's very nerve racking because you're 617 00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:16,920 Speaker 1: going in and you're telling a group of property owners 618 00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:20,040 Speaker 1: do you want fiber? And they say, well, that depends 619 00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:23,600 Speaker 1: how much does it cost? And then you say, well 620 00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:26,840 Speaker 1: that depends how many of you want it. But that 621 00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:30,400 Speaker 1: sounds I mean, listen, use Bruce at this moment that 622 00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:36,759 Speaker 1: we're not talking about infrastructure alone anymore. We're talking about people. Yes, 623 00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:41,640 Speaker 1: we're talking about communities coming together to decide we want this, 624 00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:44,080 Speaker 1: and in this case, the more who say they want 625 00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:48,560 Speaker 1: it the better price they're all gonna get. So how 626 00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:51,200 Speaker 1: does how does this play out in the people of Amon. 627 00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:55,360 Speaker 1: There are people in neighborhoods that want fiber, they want 628 00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:58,680 Speaker 1: better connectivity, they want another choice. And these people came 629 00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:03,960 Speaker 1: out the woodwork and found us and said, if I 630 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,120 Speaker 1: talk to my neighbors, if I go knock on doors, 631 00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:09,840 Speaker 1: can you give me anything to say? So we started 632 00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:12,480 Speaker 1: to call these folks Fiber Champions, and we spun up 633 00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:15,680 Speaker 1: a website where any resident and Ammin can type their 634 00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:18,120 Speaker 1: name and their address in and say I want fiber, 635 00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:21,759 Speaker 1: and there's a box they can check that says yes, 636 00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:23,799 Speaker 1: I'm willing to be a fiber Champion. By the way, 637 00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:25,600 Speaker 1: that means that you're going to talk to your neighbors. 638 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:28,760 Speaker 1: So for our very first local improvement district, we said, 639 00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:33,120 Speaker 1: the first one that can get over, we will come 640 00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:35,279 Speaker 1: back to you with a cost per home and we 641 00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:38,160 Speaker 1: will build your neighborhoods. We ended up doing three non 642 00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:44,640 Speaker 1: contiguous neighborhoods that had a combined take grate of Okay, so, 643 00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:50,120 Speaker 1: broadly speaking, how has MM and fiber affected Ammin? Are 644 00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:55,120 Speaker 1: there any tangible differences because you now have this publicly 645 00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:59,400 Speaker 1: owned and operated broadband network m and fiber residence. As 646 00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:03,200 Speaker 1: we went through the pandemic could work and school from home. 647 00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:07,040 Speaker 1: We hear that consistently. At the time the pandemic started 648 00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:09,719 Speaker 1: and the school started back up, we had homes that 649 00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:12,800 Speaker 1: opted not to get fiber. When we did the improvement district, 650 00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:15,680 Speaker 1: we were connecting at least one of those every week, 651 00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:18,480 Speaker 1: and they were paying for those connections. So to put 652 00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:22,560 Speaker 1: that in context, that connection is thirty So it is 653 00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:28,080 Speaker 1: not an inexpensive proposition to build this infrastructure, but there's 654 00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:30,719 Speaker 1: clearly value to it and people are starting to see 655 00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:34,480 Speaker 1: that value. The upfront cost is high, but you need 656 00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:38,480 Speaker 1: to remember that once that is paid, they're getting one 657 00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:42,000 Speaker 1: gig connectivity for twenty six dollars a month. Okay, I 658 00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:45,640 Speaker 1: think we've buried the lead on this whole conversation. UM 659 00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:52,920 Speaker 1: one gigabit per second speeds upload download both, Yes, six 660 00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:56,600 Speaker 1: dollars and fifty cents total out of pocket monthly total. 661 00:38:57,120 --> 00:39:00,399 Speaker 1: So that's that is one quarter of what I'm paying 662 00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:02,640 Speaker 1: for the same Just for the record, right now, So 663 00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:05,680 Speaker 1: how do we move to Amman? Is their program just 664 00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:08,960 Speaker 1: for the broad I've told you, Bruce, I've moved to 665 00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:12,040 Speaker 1: a specific building because of the broadband. Don't think it 666 00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:14,839 Speaker 1: doesn't apply to your town. I wish we could move 667 00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:20,799 Speaker 1: am And everywhere. What we have done is not that 668 00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:23,279 Speaker 1: hard to do, I can tell you the hardest part. 669 00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:25,560 Speaker 1: People ask me all the time. Believe me when I 670 00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:28,200 Speaker 1: tell you, counties and cities call us on a weekly 671 00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:31,480 Speaker 1: basis because they see little video clips, little things about 672 00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:34,920 Speaker 1: us and me. Fast Company magazine in nineteen said we 673 00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:38,680 Speaker 1: have the best network in America. The Open Technology Institute 674 00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:42,400 Speaker 1: did a cost of connectivity research program and they actually 675 00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:45,239 Speaker 1: look at other countries and found am And to have 676 00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:48,359 Speaker 1: the cheapest gig internet in the world. So what I 677 00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:51,400 Speaker 1: think is we can get this everywhere. But the hardest 678 00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:55,440 Speaker 1: part about this isn't the technology. The technologies, it's the 679 00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:57,520 Speaker 1: fun part. It's the part I love, don't get me wrong, 680 00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:02,719 Speaker 1: But it's actually the easiest. But the absolute hardest thing 681 00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:09,520 Speaker 1: is consensus. We just can't agree on anything, even in 682 00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:13,759 Speaker 1: little Lammin. It's a challenge. And we successfully got to 683 00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:16,880 Speaker 1: say that this made sense and they joined up and 684 00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:19,640 Speaker 1: it works really well. But I think the larger you 685 00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:22,120 Speaker 1: stretch this and the more people you involved, the harder 686 00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:24,960 Speaker 1: it is to get that consensus. It's very challenging to 687 00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:27,600 Speaker 1: explain to a resident that, yes, in order to serve 688 00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:30,520 Speaker 1: some people down this road, we need to go through 689 00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:34,919 Speaker 1: what you perceive to be your front yard, and yes 690 00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:38,080 Speaker 1: we will fix it, and yes it is disruptive, and 691 00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:41,919 Speaker 1: yes we're sorry, but this is for the greater good. 692 00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:49,560 Speaker 1: I was wondering, you know, about the consensus and the 693 00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:53,279 Speaker 1: potential divisiveness. Where else are people divided about this and 694 00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:57,279 Speaker 1: what have you learned about overcoming that division. I use 695 00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:00,440 Speaker 1: crossing people's property as an example, and that can be 696 00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:05,440 Speaker 1: one of the most contentious situations. Fortunately, it's probably the 697 00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:09,160 Speaker 1: most infrequent. Also, so even though it can be very contentious, 698 00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:14,160 Speaker 1: it's probably something we see less than somebody saying government 699 00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:18,360 Speaker 1: should not do this. Some people say this is not 700 00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:20,920 Speaker 1: the role of government, and how does that play out 701 00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:23,680 Speaker 1: in m So I'll make a couple of comments that 702 00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:28,000 Speaker 1: are based on my experience, and I'm not campaigning one 703 00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:31,840 Speaker 1: side against another. I believe that's why the municipality exists 704 00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:37,000 Speaker 1: or the county is it provides a forum, a mechanism 705 00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:38,960 Speaker 1: for the community to come together and do things that 706 00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:41,200 Speaker 1: they can't do alone. And I think this is one 707 00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:47,160 Speaker 1: of those examples. And I don't know that Ammon fits everywhere. 708 00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:49,920 Speaker 1: I wouldn't ever recommend every single city just go do it. 709 00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:53,799 Speaker 1: Do I think that we do need more public infrastructure? 710 00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:57,240 Speaker 1: Do I think that we need some kind of regulatory 711 00:41:57,239 --> 00:42:02,560 Speaker 1: framework to help us get ubiquitous public infrastructure for broadband? Yes. 712 00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:05,959 Speaker 1: My decade of experience tells me we're going to build 713 00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:08,680 Speaker 1: a framework that's new, and it's gonna start at grassroots. 714 00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:11,399 Speaker 1: It's gonna start with communities like am And and and other 715 00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:15,080 Speaker 1: communities that decide they're gonna build their own In our solution, 716 00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:18,800 Speaker 1: there's gonna be a patchwork of infrastructures that are publicly 717 00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:25,120 Speaker 1: owned at all, interconnecting cross and it's gonna work well. Bruce, 718 00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:28,399 Speaker 1: thank you so much for nerd ing out with me 719 00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:33,520 Speaker 1: and advocating so passionately for municipal broadband. You're absolutely welcome. 720 00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:41,440 Speaker 1: I appreciate it. I appreciate your time as well. So 721 00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:44,360 Speaker 1: I'm up here looking up how fast I can maybe 722 00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:47,200 Speaker 1: move to am And, Idaho, not just for the fiber 723 00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:49,960 Speaker 1: optic broadband network, but so I can learn more of 724 00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:54,399 Speaker 1: these cool Idaho sayings. Seriously, Bruce is just what this 725 00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:58,520 Speaker 1: show is about. He is citizening so hard showing up 726 00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:02,239 Speaker 1: for his community, helping the community show up for itself. 727 00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:07,000 Speaker 1: We can citizen anywhere, a small town, a big city, 728 00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:09,680 Speaker 1: on the coast, or on the plains, and we can 729 00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:13,760 Speaker 1: citizen in a multitude of ways. It's all about working 730 00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:17,320 Speaker 1: for our collective benefit. And I just want to add 731 00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:21,160 Speaker 1: two quick things. First, when we have a public option 732 00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:25,640 Speaker 1: like municipal broadband, it doesn't mean the end of all 733 00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:29,960 Speaker 1: private enterprise. Okay, that's why it's called an option. Second, 734 00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:33,359 Speaker 1: Internet access is just one critical service we use that 735 00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:37,719 Speaker 1: could benefit from this model. Imagine having public options for 736 00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:43,600 Speaker 1: other essentials like banking, healthcare, even donuts. Okay, maybe not donuts. 737 00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:45,680 Speaker 1: I don't know if I want government donuts, even though 738 00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:49,640 Speaker 1: they're quite an essential service. If I'm hearing Bruce correctly, 739 00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:53,120 Speaker 1: When we have options that prioritize people, not just profit, 740 00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:57,040 Speaker 1: we can create a more equitable society where it's easier 741 00:43:57,080 --> 00:43:59,799 Speaker 1: for us all too citizens. You might even say the 742 00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:03,040 Speaker 1: word world is our public oyster. Yeah, I said that. 743 00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:06,919 Speaker 1: I can be corny sometimes, You're welcome. Next week we'll 744 00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:10,080 Speaker 1: get into why some people can't even afford internet access 745 00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:13,040 Speaker 1: or other life necessities, and it's not because they don't 746 00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:16,359 Speaker 1: work hard because they do they work the hardest. It's 747 00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:19,480 Speaker 1: simply because we don't pay them enough. I'm gonna talk 748 00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:22,359 Speaker 1: with the one and only I Gen Poop. She's been 749 00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:25,000 Speaker 1: working for over twenty years to bring quality work and 750 00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:28,440 Speaker 1: dignity and fairness to people who care for our elderly, 751 00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:31,240 Speaker 1: who clean out homes, and who still have the least 752 00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:46,399 Speaker 1: protections of almost any workers in this economy. And now 753 00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:51,200 Speaker 1: it's action time on the personal front. I want you 754 00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:55,400 Speaker 1: to think about this. What's publicly or municipally run in 755 00:44:55,480 --> 00:45:00,200 Speaker 1: your own community, post office, water, the library, the Think 756 00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:03,759 Speaker 1: of what those things are and ask yourself, how do 757 00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:06,960 Speaker 1: you use these services and what would you change about 758 00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:10,879 Speaker 1: them if they were owned exclusively by private companies. If 759 00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:13,640 Speaker 1: you were in charge, what would you do to improve 760 00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:16,400 Speaker 1: this service for the public, And what else could you 761 00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:19,600 Speaker 1: imagine working better if it was run by the people 762 00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:23,680 Speaker 1: and serve more of us. For our next action, let's 763 00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:28,040 Speaker 1: get more informed. Basically, we can acknowledge that our lives 764 00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:32,520 Speaker 1: and our livelihoods depend on the internet. Bruce helped meet 765 00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:35,800 Speaker 1: that essential need by having the local government operated network, 766 00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:38,520 Speaker 1: but it's not the only way, and the Internet isn't 767 00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:41,920 Speaker 1: the only service you can find out more about community 768 00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:45,520 Speaker 1: efforts to own services from broadband to banking through the 769 00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:49,080 Speaker 1: links in the show notes for this episode. Finally, we 770 00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:52,640 Speaker 1: have something that you can do with other people. Bring 771 00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:56,440 Speaker 1: municipal broadband to your community. That's right. If this topic 772 00:45:56,520 --> 00:46:00,640 Speaker 1: excites you on your citizen journey, consider joining the community 773 00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:03,719 Speaker 1: broadband effort near you or learning from one in order 774 00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:05,560 Speaker 1: to leave an effort in your city or in your 775 00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:09,560 Speaker 1: town a k a. Your municipality. The Institute for Local 776 00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:12,280 Speaker 1: Self Reliance, who we heard from earlier in this series 777 00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:16,399 Speaker 1: is Stacy Mitchell. They're tracking all these local efforts via 778 00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:20,560 Speaker 1: their community map at MUNI Networks dot org. That's m 779 00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:24,560 Speaker 1: u n I Networks dot org. If you're taking to 780 00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:28,280 Speaker 1: these actions, please brag about yourself online using the hashtag 781 00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:32,240 Speaker 1: how to citizen and send us general feedback or ideas 782 00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:36,000 Speaker 1: for the show to comment at how to citizen dot com. 783 00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:38,799 Speaker 1: Speaking of that domain name, we have one and we're 784 00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:41,960 Speaker 1: using it. Visit how to citizen dot com to sign 785 00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:45,560 Speaker 1: up for our newsletter or learn about upcoming events or 786 00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:48,080 Speaker 1: even more stuff than that. And if you like the show, 787 00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:51,840 Speaker 1: spread the word. Tell somebody. How does citizen with Barreton 788 00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:54,440 Speaker 1: Day is a production of I Heart Radio Podcasts and 789 00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:59,160 Speaker 1: dust Like Productions. Our executive producers are Me Barretton Day Thurston, 790 00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:03,960 Speaker 1: Elizabeth Stewart, and Misha Yusuf. Our producers are Stephanie Cone 791 00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:08,360 Speaker 1: and Ali Kilts. Kelly Prime is our editor, Valentino Rivera 792 00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:12,640 Speaker 1: is our engineer, and Sam Paulson is our apprentice. Original 793 00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:16,440 Speaker 1: music by Andrew Eaton. This episode was produced and sound 794 00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:19,839 Speaker 1: designed by Ali Kilts. Special thanks to Joel Smith from 795 00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:20,560 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio