1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:06,280 Speaker 1: Live from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg Sound on 2 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:11,200 Speaker 1: middle income families need help. We're coming out of COVID nineteen. 3 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:13,360 Speaker 1: You want to keep our economy strong. When you have 4 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 1: an infrastructure build, there's spin off, the back nis, spin 5 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 1: option cities from towns all across from America. Bloomberg Sound 6 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:23,640 Speaker 1: on Politics, Policy and Perspective from DC's top name. So 7 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 1: we need to incentivize the manufacturing of chips in America. 8 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 1: I do believe the Actinea State and effective, but I 9 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:33,600 Speaker 1: think what government's role is to share the clients, share 10 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:37,760 Speaker 1: the fact share the benefits. Schloomberg Sound On with Joe 11 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:44,159 Speaker 1: Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. Washington is hot and humid today 12 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 1: as thousands of Americans wait to be evacuated from Afghanistan 13 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 1: and President Biden sits for his first interview since the 14 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 1: fall of Kabble. Will update the situation on both ends 15 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 1: of this story and talk about it in just a 16 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 1: moment with former Congressman, former Ambassador Tim Row Homer, architect 17 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:04,040 Speaker 1: of the nine eleven Commission and later a real top gun. 18 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 1: Military journalists and retired naval aviator Ward Carol on the 19 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:11,520 Speaker 1: mission over Cobble right now, and how the war nets 20 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 1: for the US. We'll have the panel to Bloomberg Politics 21 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 1: contributors Jeanie she and Zano and Rick Davis are both 22 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:19,680 Speaker 1: with us for the hour. Thank you for spending time 23 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:23,039 Speaker 1: with us today on Bloomberg Radio. We're all watching the 24 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:26,120 Speaker 1: clock as we approach a major deadline at the end 25 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 1: of the month. Of course, the US to complete the 26 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 1: withdrawal from Afghanistan, get everyone out who wants to get out. 27 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:36,319 Speaker 1: Pentagon spokesman John Kirby, briefing reporters today, says, we have 28 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:39,480 Speaker 1: no reason to believe that date will change. There has 29 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 1: been no decision to change the deadline, and we are 30 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 1: focused on doing everything we can inside that deadline to 31 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 1: move as many people out as possible. Um and if 32 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 1: and when there's a decision to change that, uh, then 33 00:01:55,920 --> 00:02:01,560 Speaker 1: obviously that would require additional conversations with the Taliban. You know, 34 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 1: we'd have to work out any formal extension with the 35 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:08,720 Speaker 1: Taliban in control of Afghanistan. Kirby asked about that, of course, 36 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 1: after President Biden's interview with George Stephanopolis, President said US 37 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 1: forces would stay longer if needed to get all Americans 38 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 1: out of the country, which he is pledging to do. 39 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:21,200 Speaker 1: In the meantime, the Pentagon says the US does remain 40 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 1: in control of the airport. No skirmishes to report around 41 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:26,640 Speaker 1: the perimeter today, though the Taliban has set up You 42 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:29,360 Speaker 1: may have heard additional checkpoints as Bloomberg has been reporting 43 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 1: around that airport, making it potentially more difficult for people 44 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:34,960 Speaker 1: to get out, making people worry about what happens if 45 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:37,799 Speaker 1: they close those gates. Joining us to learn more about 46 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:41,240 Speaker 1: how we got here this week how this situation may 47 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 1: resolve as well. Is Tim Romer, former Democratic Congressman from Indiana, 48 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:48,239 Speaker 1: former Ambassador to India, and an architect of the nine 49 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:50,680 Speaker 1: eleven Commission, which spent a lot of time investigating the 50 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 1: Taliban and al Qaeda. Mr Ambassador, Welcome back to Bloomberg Radio. 51 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 1: I'm sure you've gamed out a lot of scenarios for 52 00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:01,360 Speaker 1: the way this would end. Was this one of them? Well, Joe, 53 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:03,120 Speaker 1: good to be back with you and going to be 54 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 1: back with your listeners. No, I don't think anybody expected this, Joe. 55 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 1: You know you look back. The first major Afghans city 56 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 1: fell on August nine, and then the capitol cobble Uh 57 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 1: capitulated six days later. I don't think any intelligence, any 58 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:27,639 Speaker 1: military reporting, any policy analysis ever expected that I'd make 59 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 1: two points here, Um, Joe, for your listeners to to 60 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 1: uh uh listen to and understand what is is that 61 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 1: we need to take the long view of the so 62 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 1: called long war, not analyze this simply in terms of 63 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 1: seventy two hours. It's more like looking at a four 64 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 1: hour movie rather than taking a selfie or a picture 65 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 1: or snapshot. Today. Let's see where we are two years 66 00:03:56,040 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 1: from now, five years from now. My guess is it, uh, 67 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 1: you know, with the world changing so dramatically, we're looking 68 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 1: at terrorist threats from Syria, from Eastern Africa, from Somalia, 69 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 1: from al Qaeda, from al Shabab, not just from Afghanistan. 70 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 1: So President Biden's decision, I think long term and getting 71 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:22,040 Speaker 1: out is probably the right one. And we're facing more 72 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 1: than we did twenty years ago, rents from nation states 73 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:29,480 Speaker 1: like China and Russia in Iran that are openly challenging 74 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 1: the United States. And then finally, Joe, as we all 75 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 1: know and we we are sad about, I think in 76 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 1: our hearts, we have domestic terrorism rising in the United 77 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 1: States that we have to pay attention to. When we 78 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:49,480 Speaker 1: had our country, our constitution, our capital attacked by domestic insurrectionists. Uh, 79 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:52,480 Speaker 1: and the threat that they may pose in the future 80 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 1: is one to uh you know consider as well. So 81 00:04:56,520 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 1: there's a lot to look at here. The good news 82 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:05,280 Speaker 1: is that you know that the Pentagon reported today that uh, 83 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:08,719 Speaker 1: you know, flights are coming in five thousand, two hundred 84 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 1: troops are securing the airport and Cobble. That's good news. 85 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:18,000 Speaker 1: I think thirteen C seventeen's uh have landed the today 86 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 1: and brought more troops. Twelve have departed Cobble with a 87 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:26,920 Speaker 1: few thousand more people to get out, So you know, 88 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:30,919 Speaker 1: that is good news after the miscalculations and missteps in 89 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:33,320 Speaker 1: the last few days. I'd like to ask you about 90 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:36,160 Speaker 1: President Biden's interview last night, and I like the way 91 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 1: you're looking at this in terms of what's happening right 92 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 1: now as well as the long view. I'd like to 93 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:44,360 Speaker 1: kind of tackle those separately. Uh. Last night, when ABC's 94 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:47,600 Speaker 1: George Stephanopolis asked President Biden if this could have been 95 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 1: handled better, here's what he said. He said, you don't 96 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 1: think this could have been handled the sex. It could 97 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:55,720 Speaker 1: have been handled better in any way, no mistakes, No 98 00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:58,359 Speaker 1: I I don't think it could have been handled in 99 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:01,800 Speaker 1: a way that there we're gonna go back in hindsight 100 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 1: and look, but the idea that somehow there's a way 101 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 1: to have gotten out without chaos ensuing, I don't know 102 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:11,560 Speaker 1: how that happens. I don't know how that happened. So 103 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 1: for you, that was always priced into the decision, priced 104 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:22,919 Speaker 1: into your view as well, Ambassador. Look, I'm somebody that 105 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:27,279 Speaker 1: has made mistakes in my life, Joe, and uh, you know, 106 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 1: and politics and personal life, and uh, you know, recognizing 107 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 1: those mistakes and embracing them and most importantly, you know, 108 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:41,279 Speaker 1: learning from them is critically important. I think we have 109 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:46,839 Speaker 1: made some miscou calculations here. I mean, let's let's try 110 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 1: to put something together and look at some of this. Um, 111 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:54,479 Speaker 1: you know, the Trump policy had an even faster withdrawal rate, 112 00:06:54,839 --> 00:07:01,680 Speaker 1: except you know, accelerating the troop withdrawal, and and uh, 113 00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:04,359 Speaker 1: you know, we've got to learn from the position that 114 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 1: that put us in. We have to learn from intelligence. 115 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 1: Why did our intelligence not pick up the fact that 116 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:14,200 Speaker 1: the Taliban up to a year and a half ago 117 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 1: was paying off Afghan troops to surrender once they started 118 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 1: to run into cities. Another thing, Joe, that I let 119 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 1: me just stop you there if I if I could 120 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:28,040 Speaker 1: ambassador that because I want to ask you about the Taliban. 121 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 1: Is this the same group of people you investigated on 122 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 1: the nine eleven commission. Was this the same type of 123 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 1: behavior that that you witnessed them? And are they behaving 124 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 1: the way you expected? Now? Well, certainly one of the 125 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:46,040 Speaker 1: things that that resolution that I voted for in Congress 126 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:53,400 Speaker 1: to go into Afghanistan to accomplish was to demolish al Qaeda, 127 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:56,960 Speaker 1: and to get that A lot we have done that. 128 00:07:57,240 --> 00:08:03,400 Speaker 1: We we we have serviously degraded al Qaeda's capabilities. We 129 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 1: never voted for a resolution in Congress to nation build 130 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 1: or to be there twenty or thirty years. It was 131 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 1: to just get al Qaeda and make sure that was 132 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 1: not a trampoline for more attacks and then of course 133 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 1: getting been locked, which we eventually did. Uh, this tlevent 134 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 1: has changed. I mean, we we've got to hold them accountable. 135 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 1: We got to see what they're up to. They've been 136 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:28,600 Speaker 1: vicious in terms of their uh, their war strategy. We'll 137 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 1: see how they govern them. Are they ambitious politically and 138 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:35,880 Speaker 1: that they may behave differently on the world stage. Well, 139 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 1: they're behaving differently than many of the people in our 140 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 1: intelligence community initially thought they would. So far, that's hold 141 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 1: their feet to the fire. Uh, let's see what they do. 142 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:50,720 Speaker 1: We've got things that we can hold over them. Sanctions. 143 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 1: There's nine billion dollars and central bank reserves that we 144 00:08:56,080 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 1: could have disappear tomorrow for their economy. Uh, they're or 145 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:03,320 Speaker 1: is recognition of governments that governments are going to look 146 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 1: at over the long term. Uh, you know this is 147 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:09,960 Speaker 1: you know again, Joe, this is the long game. What 148 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 1: what do we want that to look like? How do 149 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:14,960 Speaker 1: we try to make sure terrorism doesn't spring up again? 150 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:17,559 Speaker 1: And how do we try to make sure the Taliban 151 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:22,280 Speaker 1: could be responsible people in the short term? Playing out 152 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:25,080 Speaker 1: what they've done so far, we'll see. So long game, 153 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:29,200 Speaker 1: should we acknowledge the Talibans as a legitimate government? I 154 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:32,840 Speaker 1: think that's way too early to you know, speculate on. 155 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 1: I think that's something to hold over them. You know, 156 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:40,199 Speaker 1: they have a huge challenge ahead of them, Joe. I mean, 157 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:44,200 Speaker 1: they've gone from militant fighters to now how do they govern? 158 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:47,559 Speaker 1: What do they do in a state which has extremely 159 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:54,679 Speaker 1: high poverty, has a high inflation rate, has a military 160 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:57,839 Speaker 1: that just disappeared three hundred thousand and their military thirty 161 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 1: special operations at the US trained over the last several years, 162 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:05,400 Speaker 1: spending eighty three billion dollars. Where did they go? What 163 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:09,120 Speaker 1: happened to them? And uh, you know they're there. They 164 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:11,640 Speaker 1: have to govern and that's hard, as you and I know, 165 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 1: that's a lot harder than winning h Yeah, it's difficult 166 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:20,560 Speaker 1: as well when you could potentially be providing safe harbor 167 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:24,079 Speaker 1: to terrorists. Do you see that as the same Taliban 168 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 1: that you looked into so many years ago? Look, you know, 169 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:33,680 Speaker 1: they leadership has changed over time because the US military, 170 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 1: the best in the world, has been able to go 171 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 1: into Afghanistan and get the people responsible for nine eleven 172 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:43,839 Speaker 1: and continually to great al Qaeda, putting them almost out 173 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:48,840 Speaker 1: of business. And the Taliban has changed. But you know, 174 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:52,439 Speaker 1: their protests in Afghanistan in the last twenty four hours, 175 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:55,720 Speaker 1: people still standing up for you know, not having the 176 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 1: Taliban run things. Their women and girls that have been 177 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:03,480 Speaker 1: treated well by the United States over the last twenty years. 178 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:08,080 Speaker 1: They're gonna insist on their rights and hopefully the international 179 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:12,680 Speaker 1: community can insist on those human rights being honored going forward. 180 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 1: So there's a lot to look at here, A lot 181 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 1: of challenges ahead for the United States and for our 182 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:24,319 Speaker 1: NATO partners, and for India. When I served in India, 183 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:27,200 Speaker 1: President Obama asked me to fly into Cobble and work 184 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:29,839 Speaker 1: with the Indians to get them more invested in that 185 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:33,480 Speaker 1: country given their ethnic and religious ties. And the Indians 186 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:36,920 Speaker 1: pledged two billion dollars over the last ten years on 187 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:43,560 Speaker 1: economic projects, police training, and women and girls empowerment programs. 188 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:46,520 Speaker 1: The Indians have a lot at stake in this boy, 189 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:48,679 Speaker 1: there's so much to talk about here. We could do 190 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:50,680 Speaker 1: a whole hour together with Tim Romer, and I can't 191 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 1: thank you enough for coming in, former Ambassador to India, 192 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:56,959 Speaker 1: former Congressman from Indiana. I can't imagine what's going through 193 00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 1: Tim Rohmer's head as he watches what's happening in real 194 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:01,440 Speaker 1: time along with all of us on the ground right 195 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:05,800 Speaker 1: now in Cobble. You're listening to Bloomberg You sound on 196 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:12,559 Speaker 1: with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio Headline. On the terminal reads, 197 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:17,560 Speaker 1: Biden says, chaos couldn't have been avoided. As we watched 198 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:20,719 Speaker 1: the interview last night on ABC News, we get to 199 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:23,240 Speaker 1: talk about it now with the Classics sound on panel 200 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:27,040 Speaker 1: of Bloomberg Politics contributors Genie she Inzano and Rick Davis 201 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:28,960 Speaker 1: are with us. I want you to know you were 202 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 1: both on my mind last night as I'm watching the 203 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 1: interview with George Stephanopolis on ABC, and I want to 204 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 1: ask you as much about President Biden's demeanor as I 205 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:42,720 Speaker 1: do his words. Let's start again, just to reset here 206 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:47,520 Speaker 1: with the President talking about the nine eleven anniversary with Stephanopolis. 207 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 1: In a couple of weeks, we're all going to commemorate 208 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:53,760 Speaker 1: the twentieth anniversary of nine eleven. The Taliban are gonna 209 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 1: be ruling Afghanistan like they were when our country was attacked. 210 00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 1: How do you explain that to the American Not true, 211 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 1: It's not true. They're not gonna look just like they 212 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:07,040 Speaker 1: were were attacked. There was a guy named Osama bin Ladened. 213 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:10,920 Speaker 1: It was still alive and well. They were organized in 214 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 1: a big way that they had significant help from other 215 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:17,840 Speaker 1: parts of the world. We went there for two reasons, George, 216 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:22,080 Speaker 1: two reasons, one to get ben Laden and two to 217 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 1: wipe out as best we could. And we did the 218 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:30,880 Speaker 1: Al Qaeda in Afghanistan. We did it. Rick Davis, what 219 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 1: he said there was true. A lot of people have 220 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:35,840 Speaker 1: called into question the styling which he said it, the 221 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:39,320 Speaker 1: way he conducted himself, appearing upset, maybe angry, if I 222 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:42,160 Speaker 1: can use that word at times, maybe defensive. How did 223 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 1: you read it? Yeah, defensive is a great word. Um, 224 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:47,199 Speaker 1: there's no question he went in with his backup. He 225 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:49,439 Speaker 1: knew he was going to have to fight through the 226 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:52,320 Speaker 1: speech that he gave just a day earlier where he 227 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:55,680 Speaker 1: said no regrets on this policy. Um, but look, I 228 00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:58,040 Speaker 1: really call him the question the premise of what he 229 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:00,640 Speaker 1: just said. I if that were the case, then the 230 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 1: Taliban would have stayed in power the entire time in 231 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:07,960 Speaker 1: the last twenty years. We not only had a requirement 232 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:11,240 Speaker 1: to get rid of the al Qaeda in Afghanistan, but 233 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:14,079 Speaker 1: what we knew that the Taliban would give aid and 234 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 1: comfort to any organization that wanted to terrorize the United 235 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:21,520 Speaker 1: States of America. And they did, and and that's why 236 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:26,360 Speaker 1: we had a change in our government in Afghanistan, uh 237 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 1: taking the Taliban out, and now the talibanner back in. 238 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:33,560 Speaker 1: And George Stephanoplos was right twenty years ago when nine 239 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:36,280 Speaker 1: eleven occurred, the Taliban was part of the problem. It 240 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 1: wasn't just al Qaeda now they're back. What did you 241 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:43,760 Speaker 1: think of the president's tone last night, Genie, you just 242 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 1: played one of the thoughts that the pieces that I 243 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 1: thought was was quite astonishing. Another one I would suggest 244 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 1: is when he says that was four or five days 245 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:57,280 Speaker 1: ago in response to George Stephanopolis raising the specter of 246 00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:00,720 Speaker 1: hundreds of people packed into a C seventeen and Afghans 247 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 1: falling out of planes to their death. The President responded, 248 00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:08,280 Speaker 1: that was four days ago, maybe five days ago. The 249 00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 1: problem for Joe Biden is he ran as empathetic Joe, 250 00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 1: he ran as competent Joe. This last five six days, 251 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 1: he himself has destroyed at least poked great holes into 252 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:24,200 Speaker 1: the idea of empathy and also of competence, and he's 253 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 1: got to get back on track of that. I think 254 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 1: that comment four or five days ago is one of 255 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:32,360 Speaker 1: the worst I've heard a president making an interview like this. 256 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:34,960 Speaker 1: I don't know if it's because his press secretary has 257 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 1: been on vacation, but he has not been well prepared 258 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:41,200 Speaker 1: for any of this. The other thing I would say, 259 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 1: you go back, you look at what he had to say, 260 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 1: because I've looked through the transcrit very carefully. He's on 261 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 1: all sides of every issue. So yeah, I wish I 262 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:51,000 Speaker 1: could be more positive and upbeat, Joe. And I'm sorry 263 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:53,360 Speaker 1: you thought of the both of us last night because 264 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:56,320 Speaker 1: my thoughts were not as upbeat as they should have been. 265 00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 1: I gotta remind people from time to time that Genie 266 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:02,760 Speaker 1: is a Democrat. Here she's been rough on President Joe Biden. Rick. 267 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:05,880 Speaker 1: Look a lot goes into making a decision to sit 268 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:09,120 Speaker 1: down for an interview like that. This was carefully choreographed, 269 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 1: and I wonder what you would have been telling the 270 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 1: president before they spoke last night. Yeah, I think Jennie 271 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:18,320 Speaker 1: nailed it. Um, this guy has been rewarded politically time 272 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 1: and time again for his empathy, for his understanding, for 273 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 1: being a person like us, the voters, and last night, uh, 274 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 1: in that Stephanopolos interview, I think he was anything but 275 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:32,320 Speaker 1: those things. And so why shed the image that you 276 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 1: have carefully cultivated throughout your career on this issue? Um. 277 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 1: Obviously they're reeling from the sights and the sounds of 278 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 1: the reporting from Afghanistan, and they're trying a new tact 279 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:49,600 Speaker 1: But this new tact is is void of any understanding 280 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:53,680 Speaker 1: that these people were our allies. These people were our friends. 281 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:57,360 Speaker 1: They fought side by side with us against people like 282 00:16:57,480 --> 00:16:59,680 Speaker 1: the Taliban and the al Qaeda, and now all of 283 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 1: a sudd you know, they're sort of four days ago 284 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:05,800 Speaker 1: chatter on the on the runway. And so I think 285 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:07,760 Speaker 1: it's I think it's going to be interesting to see 286 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:10,479 Speaker 1: the polling data in about a week where all this 287 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:13,600 Speaker 1: sets in and we come out of the crisis mode 288 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 1: and into the withdrawal troops, and and see what kind 289 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:20,480 Speaker 1: of damage has been done in the an ongoing period 290 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:23,360 Speaker 1: because the policy is popular, but I think his approach 291 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:25,520 Speaker 1: is probably anything but that. And of course I don't 292 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:27,720 Speaker 1: need to remind you guys that when that those polling 293 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:29,479 Speaker 1: numbers come out, we're going to be in the throes 294 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:32,680 Speaker 1: of an infrastructure debate with lawmakers coming back into town. 295 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:35,040 Speaker 1: In our last minute, A genie with what you said 296 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:36,679 Speaker 1: and what we just heard from Rick, should it not 297 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:38,760 Speaker 1: be a sit down interview? Does Joe Biden need to 298 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:41,879 Speaker 1: hold a primetime news conference and take a hundred questions 299 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:44,760 Speaker 1: he's going to have to I think he should to 300 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 1: answer your question. And if you look back at the 301 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:49,399 Speaker 1: data that's just coming out, because people like us collect 302 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:51,680 Speaker 1: this all the time. He has held far less press 303 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:55,359 Speaker 1: conferences than his predecessors. He's answered far less questions. Of course, 304 00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:57,960 Speaker 1: we've had a pandemic, so it's hard to get people 305 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:00,240 Speaker 1: together to do that. But at this point I think 306 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:03,240 Speaker 1: he should. I think we need the administration to speak 307 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 1: with one voice. We've heard Milly, We've heard the Defense 308 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:11,000 Speaker 1: Secretary Austin, We've heard the President, and we're hearing various 309 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:13,000 Speaker 1: things from all of them. We need to have a 310 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:16,000 Speaker 1: clear statement from the White House on going forward on this. 311 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 1: Reports today that the US military has been flying now 312 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:23,720 Speaker 1: suddenly fighter jets at low level over cobblesome form of aggression, 313 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:27,680 Speaker 1: they said. The press briefing at the Pentagon was full 314 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 1: of questions about this, and we did hear about it 315 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:34,720 Speaker 1: from General Hank Taylor. We also heard from Pentagon spokesman 316 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:37,919 Speaker 1: John Kirby. Both were quick to try to respond to 317 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 1: these reports. These were not little pests of these are 318 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:45,720 Speaker 1: providing air support and this isn't anything new. The as 319 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 1: we know, the Ronald Reagan has been there providing support. 320 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:53,119 Speaker 1: So these F eighteens are flying more than just yesterday's 321 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:57,760 Speaker 1: were continuously in support. Also, injuries, uh, there have been 322 00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:00,960 Speaker 1: some reporting out there that there were passes and that 323 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 1: and that there was some sort of shows of force. 324 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:05,840 Speaker 1: And I think we felt that, given the context of 325 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:08,480 Speaker 1: some of the erroneous reporting out there yesterday, that we 326 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:10,800 Speaker 1: wanted to clear that up. This came back up. They 327 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:12,679 Speaker 1: went over and over and over again, a lot of 328 00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:16,240 Speaker 1: questions from long time Pentagon reporters on why there were 329 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:19,439 Speaker 1: armed fighter jets flying over Cobble right now in the 330 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 1: Taliban doesn't have an air force, And of course we're 331 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 1: trying to keep things peaceful here, they explained. Of course 332 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:28,480 Speaker 1: this is force protection. They're trying to keep a lot 333 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:31,760 Speaker 1: of options open if commanders on the ground need them. 334 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:33,639 Speaker 1: We're joined right now by somebody knows a lot more 335 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:36,919 Speaker 1: about this than I do, a real expert. Ward Carol 336 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 1: used to fly as a radar intercept officer the Backseave 337 00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:43,080 Speaker 1: and F fourteen over the skies of Iraq, a career 338 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 1: naval aviator who became an author and a military journalist, 339 00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:49,679 Speaker 1: and is now host of the Ward Carol YouTube channel. 340 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:52,920 Speaker 1: If you geek out on military stuff and fighter jets 341 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:54,720 Speaker 1: like I do, you want to subscribe and I haven't 342 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 1: talked to you in a long time. Award welcome to 343 00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:59,280 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio. It's great to have you with us. What 344 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:01,760 Speaker 1: do you make in usually here? And I should mention 345 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:04,119 Speaker 1: that words spend time as a journalist in Afghanistan. But 346 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 1: about what's happening right now? Why are these F eight 347 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:10,240 Speaker 1: teams flying over cobble? Is it about what might happen 348 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:13,720 Speaker 1: or something more than that? Well, Joe, it's great to 349 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:16,359 Speaker 1: talk to you. It has been a long time. UM. 350 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:20,040 Speaker 1: I think it is about what could happen. So this 351 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:24,000 Speaker 1: is the beauty of carrier aviation. As the General mentioned 352 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:27,000 Speaker 1: in the press conference, this is the USS Ronald Reagan 353 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 1: in the North Arabian Sea Carrier going five, which includes 354 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:33,119 Speaker 1: a Superhrint squadron that used to be a Tomcat squadron 355 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 1: v F A want to see the Diamondbacks. I served 356 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:38,960 Speaker 1: a tour in as a department n v F v 357 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:41,639 Speaker 1: F one or two aboard US s America back in 358 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:44,919 Speaker 1: the day. Thought the Great Bosnian War um in in 359 00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 1: that UH squadrons. So this is simply present. And this 360 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:52,520 Speaker 1: is the flexibility that an aircraft carrier brings in these 361 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:55,960 Speaker 1: sort of chaotic, high enterpret situations. So I wouldn't read 362 00:20:56,040 --> 00:21:00,760 Speaker 1: anything like escalation. I know that Uh, like I watched 363 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:03,399 Speaker 1: that press conference and saw Barber star and like a 364 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:07,399 Speaker 1: top sort of like lean into John Kirby and in 365 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:10,280 Speaker 1: the general about you know what, there's airplanes there. I 366 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:12,880 Speaker 1: don't know how that could possibly surprise them or seem 367 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:16,800 Speaker 1: like some sort of a provocative move. Some wonder about 368 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:19,280 Speaker 1: this because the Taliban does not have an air force, right, 369 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:21,840 Speaker 1: But I I also would ask you that this this 370 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:23,919 Speaker 1: does come with a certain level of risk for the 371 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:27,439 Speaker 1: crewise flying those planes, right Well, yeah, I mean if 372 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:30,320 Speaker 1: you go down, you know, in hostile lands, so you're 373 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:33,680 Speaker 1: going to be a PW that becomes That changes the calculus, 374 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:37,040 Speaker 1: right as it has over the decades um, whether it's 375 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:41,480 Speaker 1: Picaw Valley and Bobby Goodman or you know the Desert 376 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 1: Storm when we had PW's. Yes, certainly that that is 377 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:47,560 Speaker 1: a an issue. But along with not having an air force, 378 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:50,440 Speaker 1: they don't have any major service air missiles that can 379 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:53,520 Speaker 1: shoot down a super Hornet above ten thousand feet. So 380 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:56,440 Speaker 1: that's not a real shot down here, No, it's not. 381 00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:59,200 Speaker 1: So you know, if you have a dual engine failure 382 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:01,359 Speaker 1: or something, yes you could went up on the ground, 383 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:03,879 Speaker 1: but that's that's not likely to happen. So let's just 384 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:06,680 Speaker 1: call it a permissive environment. So why are they there. Yes, 385 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:09,879 Speaker 1: Taliban has no air force, but we've had air presence 386 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:12,800 Speaker 1: in the entire time we've been there, and the Taliban 387 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:15,480 Speaker 1: has never had an air force. So it's close air support, 388 00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:18,439 Speaker 1: right as if something escalates on the ground and you 389 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 1: need to have very surgical ordinance brought to bear, these 390 00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:26,080 Speaker 1: airplanes can do that. So if you needed to disperse 391 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:30,240 Speaker 1: you know, Taliban, or try to back them away from 392 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:32,640 Speaker 1: American forces or that kind of thing. If there's if 393 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:36,280 Speaker 1: there's a you know, broken arrow scenario where they're overrunning 394 00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:39,760 Speaker 1: the base and Americans are a great risk, then then 395 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:43,120 Speaker 1: you might call in these superherunts to uh to back 396 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:45,399 Speaker 1: them off, you know, and that that's it. I just 397 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:48,240 Speaker 1: think it's right now. It's just presence. As John said, 398 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:51,800 Speaker 1: they're not doing the low passes, the show of force stuff. 399 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:55,920 Speaker 1: They're just holding that altitude incomes with the Ford air 400 00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:59,280 Speaker 1: controllers on the ground and just on call close air 401 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:02,520 Speaker 1: support and just there in case they're needed. More give 402 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:04,600 Speaker 1: us a sense of what we left. We've heard a 403 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:09,480 Speaker 1: lot about billions of dollars in military hardware, black Hawk helicopters, 404 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:13,520 Speaker 1: UH Super Ticanos. Did we leave anything there that the 405 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:17,680 Speaker 1: Taliban can actually use? Yeah, we did. We left a 406 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:20,000 Speaker 1: lot of stuff there. You already see him driving around 407 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:23,919 Speaker 1: up up armored hum ves. In terms of aircraft, I 408 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:26,400 Speaker 1: guess I should be more specific, but you can complete 409 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:30,879 Speaker 1: that story as well. Yeah. So yes, they have former 410 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:34,200 Speaker 1: Soviet helicopters hines that are still operational. I don't know 411 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:37,119 Speaker 1: how many or if any black Hawks that we left behind. 412 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:41,040 Speaker 1: We gave the Afghan Air Force those super Ticanos. Um 413 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:43,760 Speaker 1: So now I don't know if they have flag school, 414 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:46,640 Speaker 1: if they're going to press the folks who are trained 415 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:50,919 Speaker 1: into service, you know, under the Taliban flag. Uh, you know, 416 00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:53,280 Speaker 1: that kind of forced march kind of thing. I guess 417 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:55,840 Speaker 1: as possible. So they will have an air force that 418 00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 1: these are turboprop airplanes are not jets, but their carry 419 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:03,359 Speaker 1: you know, able carrying ordinance, and they're very capable, uh, 420 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:07,200 Speaker 1: you know, a surgical strike airplane, so they can take 421 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 1: all of this stuff. And we did summarily pull out, 422 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:11,640 Speaker 1: and we left a lot of stuff behind because over 423 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 1: the twenty years we're there, the infrastructure we created, in 424 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:18,720 Speaker 1: a uniquely American way, was a lot more. I don't 425 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:20,360 Speaker 1: have as much time as you and I used to get. 426 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:22,040 Speaker 1: I only have about a minute left here, but I 427 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:25,479 Speaker 1: remember when you went to Afghanistan as a journalist, a 428 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:28,680 Speaker 1: former naval aviator now journalist on the ground, and the 429 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:31,000 Speaker 1: short time that we have. Can you describe the net 430 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:36,320 Speaker 1: gain or a loss for the US from this war? Um? So, 431 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:39,159 Speaker 1: I think in some ways we did create modernity to 432 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:43,040 Speaker 1: the extent that it the Talibans trying to instill to 433 00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:44,800 Speaker 1: real law is going to be harder than it was. 434 00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:48,800 Speaker 1: So that's the only net gain I see. Otherwise, it's 435 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:52,480 Speaker 1: a twenty year waste to get back to where we started. 436 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:55,320 Speaker 1: And this is heartbreaking. I look in the eyes of 437 00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:57,080 Speaker 1: the children I saw when I was there and the 438 00:24:57,119 --> 00:25:00,960 Speaker 1: promise we gave by our present and we failed. So 439 00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:03,480 Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of lessons, the same ones 440 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:05,960 Speaker 1: we should learning to get um that now we're learning 441 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,680 Speaker 1: all over again. So UM, I think the nuts out 442 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 1: as a loss for the United States. It's kind of 443 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:12,720 Speaker 1: hoping you weren't going to say that, UM, And I'm 444 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:14,399 Speaker 1: really glad to hear from you again. We'd like to 445 00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:17,200 Speaker 1: stay in touch with you as this mission progresses. Find 446 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 1: him on YouTube. Our friend Ward Carroll retired F fourteen 447 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:24,080 Speaker 1: radar intercept officer. That means he was goose actually a 448 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:27,320 Speaker 1: real top gunner two now an author hosts of the 449 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:31,280 Speaker 1: Word Carroll YouTube channel. As I mentioned, you're listening to 450 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:35,919 Speaker 1: Bloomberg who sound on with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio 451 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:40,800 Speaker 1: are still asking many of the same questions we were 452 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:45,159 Speaker 1: asking this time yesterday about Afghanistan like hood this have 453 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:48,679 Speaker 1: been handled better? And will we get everyone out? Not 454 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:53,120 Speaker 1: just American citizens, but are Afghan allies who worked alongside 455 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:56,440 Speaker 1: US troops the last twenty years. That is where we 456 00:25:56,480 --> 00:26:00,000 Speaker 1: begin with the panel this time around Bloomberg Politics contributors 457 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,879 Speaker 1: Genie she and Zano and Rick Davis with us. Of course, 458 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 1: I want to get back to the interview last night 459 00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:10,040 Speaker 1: with President Biden and he was asked about this. We 460 00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:12,080 Speaker 1: we hit it at the very beginning of the program 461 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 1: to hear Tim Romer's response essentially, did we have any options? 462 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:18,800 Speaker 1: Could this have been done better? He was asked by 463 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:22,640 Speaker 1: ABC S George Stephanopolis, So you don't think this could 464 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:24,520 Speaker 1: have been handled the sex it could have been handled 465 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:28,760 Speaker 1: better in any way? No mistakes. No, I I don't 466 00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:30,800 Speaker 1: think it could have been handled in a way that 467 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:34,439 Speaker 1: there we're gonna go back on hindsight and look, but 468 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:37,720 Speaker 1: the idea that somehow there's a way to have gotten 469 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:41,400 Speaker 1: out without chaos ensuing, I don't know how that happens. 470 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:43,840 Speaker 1: I don't know how that happened. So for you, that 471 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:48,520 Speaker 1: was always priced into the decision. Yes, yeah, Tim Rohmer 472 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:52,840 Speaker 1: suggested maybe not. And I wonder how Genie and Rick 473 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:55,280 Speaker 1: feel about this. And I'll ask both of you from 474 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:58,720 Speaker 1: a political standpoint and and even just a factual one, 475 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:01,560 Speaker 1: do you believe that was the case? Was there was 476 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:03,840 Speaker 1: there a chance to have a plan B here, maybe 477 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:06,520 Speaker 1: maybe drag this out a little longer and buy some time. 478 00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:10,040 Speaker 1: And and the second part of that question is, Look, 479 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:12,200 Speaker 1: this tape is gonna be played back in campaign ads 480 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:15,440 Speaker 1: all day long in the mid terms, right, Rick, Absolutely, 481 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:18,520 Speaker 1: this is now a commercial waiting to happen. And uh, 482 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:21,400 Speaker 1: and that interview will be riff with quotes that are 483 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:24,560 Speaker 1: coming out in those kinds of commercials. But but look, 484 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:26,480 Speaker 1: I think you're gonna have to spind the clock back 485 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:28,840 Speaker 1: pretty far to figure out a way to have avoided 486 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:31,520 Speaker 1: a crisis here. Um, you know, it wasn't that long 487 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:36,919 Speaker 1: ago in October where the President than Trump said he 488 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:39,800 Speaker 1: was gonna withdraw all fifty all five thousand troops that 489 00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:43,200 Speaker 1: were in Afghanistan. And this was in October, by December, 490 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:46,720 Speaker 1: by Christmas Day, and that sent a signal to the Taliban, 491 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:50,480 Speaker 1: it's all for your coming. Come on, guys, waters Warm, 492 00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:53,119 Speaker 1: you know, retake this country because the President United States 493 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:55,680 Speaker 1: says in two months, I'm gonna withdraw my troops. Now, 494 00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:59,159 Speaker 1: that didn't wind up happening, but but we've been sending 495 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:03,000 Speaker 1: that signal ever since then, and so of course the Taliban, 496 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:05,399 Speaker 1: We're going to be prepared. And the only thing that 497 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,600 Speaker 1: bothers I think most decision makers and capital right now 498 00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:12,000 Speaker 1: is why weren't we equally prepared? Yeah, Jennie, everyone's an 499 00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:14,959 Speaker 1: armchair general right now. Right, everyone suddenly a military expert, 500 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,879 Speaker 1: and I'm really trying not to be. But it doesn't 501 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:20,600 Speaker 1: seem to take a lot of imagination to imagine this 502 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:24,600 Speaker 1: potentially playing out in a slightly different fashion without the 503 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:27,760 Speaker 1: sort of condensed period of chaos that we've seen here. 504 00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:30,119 Speaker 1: But then the political side of it, as we said, 505 00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:34,159 Speaker 1: the tape that's going to be replayed, that's right, and 506 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:36,760 Speaker 1: you know, let's just talk about a specific example, the 507 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:40,600 Speaker 1: United States government is still telling us that they don't 508 00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:44,360 Speaker 1: know how many US citizens are in the country. They're 509 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:48,720 Speaker 1: estimating between ten and fifteen thousand. They've also said that 510 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:52,600 Speaker 1: they have no plan to evacuate Americans who are outside 511 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:56,280 Speaker 1: of the capital, and so that just as one example. 512 00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 1: Then you add to that are US allies over there 513 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 1: in Afghanistan, and they have, as the Joint Chiefs have 514 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:05,760 Speaker 1: said and the Secretary of defense've said, they have no 515 00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:08,560 Speaker 1: plans to create a safe way for these people to 516 00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:12,200 Speaker 1: get to the capital. So, you know, other countries have 517 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:15,080 Speaker 1: figured out ways to do this, and that's why when 518 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,040 Speaker 1: the President says there was no way to avoid this chaos, 519 00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:20,880 Speaker 1: you know, getting out was always going to be hard. 520 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:22,960 Speaker 1: He's not the one who got us in there, but 521 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:25,720 Speaker 1: he is the president now, and we needed a plan 522 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:29,400 Speaker 1: to at least safely get the Americans and those people 523 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,240 Speaker 1: who risked their lives to help us out of that 524 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:36,640 Speaker 1: country safely before we exited, and that is going to 525 00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:39,520 Speaker 1: be a problem for him going forward. I want to 526 00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:43,440 Speaker 1: hear a piece of audio when it comes to the evacuees, 527 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:45,800 Speaker 1: the issue of evacuees that we've been talking about a 528 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:48,040 Speaker 1: lot of piece of audio from a couple of months ago. 529 00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:51,479 Speaker 1: Now actually it was on the twenty three of June. 530 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 1: Congressman Seth Malton, who was on this broadcast just two 531 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:59,960 Speaker 1: days ago, Democrat from Massachusetts, a marine who served four 532 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:01,880 Speaker 1: tours in Iraq. At one point he was one of 533 00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:04,960 Speaker 1: the only combat veterans in Congress. Now he's he's one 534 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:08,200 Speaker 1: of a of a growing number, and we had a 535 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:12,200 Speaker 1: pretty promotional conversation about his thoughts on this whole thing, 536 00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:18,000 Speaker 1: specifically when it came to evacuees of Afghans are Afghan 537 00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:25,080 Speaker 1: allies who worked as interpreters, drivers, contractors, helping US troops 538 00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:29,000 Speaker 1: in combat for years, and he worked with similar UH 539 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:32,040 Speaker 1: interpreters when he was in Iraq. I want to bring 540 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:36,120 Speaker 1: you to a hearing on June on Capitol Hill, Seth 541 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:41,600 Speaker 1: Molton speaking to the Secretary of Defense, Lloyd Austin and 542 00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:44,720 Speaker 1: General Millie, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, 543 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:47,760 Speaker 1: urging them to do something then to speed up the 544 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:51,600 Speaker 1: paperwork to get these people out. Listen to this from June. 545 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:58,960 Speaker 1: These brave Afghan partners, these Afghan and American heroes, people 546 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:03,440 Speaker 1: who we asked to risk their lives, not just for Afghanistan, 547 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 1: but for America, because we had their backs. Their future 548 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:16,800 Speaker 1: is in your hands. And this much is certain. The 549 00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:22,120 Speaker 1: Taliban will kill them if they can, and they will 550 00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:29,680 Speaker 1: rape and murder their wives and kids first if they can. 551 00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:33,840 Speaker 1: Chairman Milly, if the Service chiefs were ordered to evacuate 552 00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:37,600 Speaker 1: our Afghan allies today, is there a plan in place 553 00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:42,960 Speaker 1: to get that started immediately. We have the military capability 554 00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:45,440 Speaker 1: to do whatever is directed by the President United States 555 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,960 Speaker 1: with respect our allies in those that have worked with us, 556 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:51,160 Speaker 1: and I considered a moral imperative to take care of 557 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:55,360 Speaker 1: those that have served along our side. We are prepared 558 00:31:55,400 --> 00:32:02,000 Speaker 1: to execute whatever we are directed. And then weeks went by, 559 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:06,959 Speaker 1: and now almost two months have gone by. Rick Davis, 560 00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:10,640 Speaker 1: it's chilling to hear that conversation from that long ago 561 00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:13,240 Speaker 1: when people still now are trying to get that paperwork done. 562 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:17,120 Speaker 1: That's right, I mean, Congressman Moulton was dead on in 563 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:21,440 Speaker 1: his questioning of the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, and 564 00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:23,840 Speaker 1: I think the Joint chief made a very definitive statement 565 00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:27,520 Speaker 1: that it's a moral imperative UH to ensure the safety 566 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:31,240 Speaker 1: of those people who fought alongside our own servicemen. Um 567 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:35,280 Speaker 1: Congressman Molton has been on a on a campaign to 568 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:40,280 Speaker 1: point out deficiencies within the by deministration's entire program of 569 00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:43,240 Speaker 1: repatriating these people to the United States. I mean, you 570 00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:46,000 Speaker 1: pointed out we have six thousand troops committed there and 571 00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:49,720 Speaker 1: forty counselor officers. Now you can't get on a plane 572 00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:52,880 Speaker 1: without passing through one of those forty counselor officers. And 573 00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:55,280 Speaker 1: so what's good is six thousand troops if you can't 574 00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:58,800 Speaker 1: get through the choke point. I think Democrats will look 575 00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:01,160 Speaker 1: back on this and say this is a real profile 576 00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:03,680 Speaker 1: encouraged moment per Seth Malton. I think he pointed out 577 00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:07,080 Speaker 1: what this administration should have been doing and and and 578 00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:10,400 Speaker 1: thank goodness that he's going to continue to campaign on 579 00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:13,320 Speaker 1: this because there are sixty five thousand, as the President 580 00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:18,760 Speaker 1: pointed out in his interview with uh Stephanopolis uh Afghans 581 00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:21,920 Speaker 1: who supported our efforts and they need to be out 582 00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:25,040 Speaker 1: of Afghanistan just as much as our officers. Due to well, 583 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:27,960 Speaker 1: the storyline is changing though just just I guess what 584 00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:30,680 Speaker 1: days ago we were hearing we're gonna get everybody out, period. 585 00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:33,640 Speaker 1: We owe it to our allies. We will get everyone 586 00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:36,760 Speaker 1: out now it's we will get all Americans out, and 587 00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:40,920 Speaker 1: when asked about Afghans who are trying to leave the country, it's, well, 588 00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:43,960 Speaker 1: we're going to do the best we can, uh, Genie. 589 00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:47,520 Speaker 1: That's the kind of storyline that also becomes an advertisement, 590 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:51,000 Speaker 1: but also makes people question the motivations of an administration 591 00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,640 Speaker 1: that was making a different promise a few days ago. Well, 592 00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:56,520 Speaker 1: that's why we do need clarity from the administration, and 593 00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 1: they do need to at the very least ensure America 594 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:03,320 Speaker 1: and our allies, all of them get out. And I 595 00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:05,240 Speaker 1: just want to go to the other side of this 596 00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:07,400 Speaker 1: for a minute, because one of the darkest things we've 597 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:09,319 Speaker 1: been hearing, at least I've been hearing from the last 598 00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:13,200 Speaker 1: few days, is coming from the conservative Republicans who are 599 00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:17,880 Speaker 1: questioning why we are bringing Afghanis into this country when 600 00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:20,560 Speaker 1: we do not know if they are going to be 601 00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:23,680 Speaker 1: peaceful when we you know, as an immigration issue. And 602 00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:26,600 Speaker 1: that is a shameful, shameful argument being made on the 603 00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:29,640 Speaker 1: right in the last few days. So from both of 604 00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:33,799 Speaker 1: those perspectives, the administration should be very clear that we 605 00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:35,960 Speaker 1: are going to get our people out and Afghanis who 606 00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:37,680 Speaker 1: helped us out and they're going to be welcome in 607 00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:40,680 Speaker 1: the United States. That's what we do, and that's what 608 00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:43,120 Speaker 1: this administration should do, and they should stand up to 609 00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:46,759 Speaker 1: that conservative argument because it's deeply troubling. We're talking with 610 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:49,560 Speaker 1: Rick and Jeanie and our final moments here, Uh, Rick, 611 00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:52,719 Speaker 1: what has to happen in the nick It's Friday already tomorrow. 612 00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:54,680 Speaker 1: I can't imagine the president is going to be doing 613 00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:56,760 Speaker 1: a lot of public speaking over the course of the weekend. 614 00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:59,719 Speaker 1: From a public relations standpoint, what what are you advising 615 00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:01,319 Speaker 1: the and er in chief to do in the next 616 00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:04,120 Speaker 1: twenty four hours here? Or are we already onto Sunday 617 00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:07,120 Speaker 1: shows and back to infrastructure next week? Yeah? I think 618 00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:09,560 Speaker 1: that there'll be a share of infrastructure in the news 619 00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:11,720 Speaker 1: cycle coming in the next week because it's so important 620 00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:14,759 Speaker 1: to the domestic capacity that we have to compete. But 621 00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:17,319 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, the optics of what 622 00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:21,000 Speaker 1: you're seeing in Afghanistan will continue to be front page 623 00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:24,319 Speaker 1: news and it will dominate most of the discussions this 624 00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:27,040 Speaker 1: weekend as well it should. And and so the real 625 00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:29,480 Speaker 1: question is going to be, uh, what does the president 626 00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:33,720 Speaker 1: do after opening up for questioning with uh with George Stephanopolis, 627 00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,960 Speaker 1: does he then take questions from the broader press, corps 628 00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:40,160 Speaker 1: uh and and and basically try to put into more 629 00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:44,480 Speaker 1: definition the plans for what happens after August thirty one, 630 00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:46,040 Speaker 1: because I think one of the things that came out 631 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:48,200 Speaker 1: of that interview is there's no way to get all 632 00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:52,040 Speaker 1: these evacuations done by August thirty one, So what happens next. 633 00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:54,640 Speaker 1: There's a lot of questions still to answer, as I 634 00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:57,160 Speaker 1: said at the beginning of this conversation, and we're going 635 00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:01,080 Speaker 1: to continue to seek answers tomorrow with big thanks as 636 00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:05,920 Speaker 1: ever to Rick and Jennie our classic Bloomberg Sound On panel, 637 00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:08,399 Speaker 1: and I want to tell you tomorrow another one you'll 638 00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:11,400 Speaker 1: want to hear as we start Friday's edition of Sound 639 00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:15,879 Speaker 1: On with Omar Samad, who served as the Afghanistan ambassador 640 00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:18,560 Speaker 1: to Canada in the middle of all this oh four 641 00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:21,000 Speaker 1: to oh nine and to France in later years now 642 00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:25,640 Speaker 1: with the Atlantic Council, his view on what we owe 643 00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:29,200 Speaker 1: our allies in Afghanistan. We'll reach you back here for 644 00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:32,480 Speaker 1: the fastest hour in politics. I'm Joe Matthew. This is 645 00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:33,040 Speaker 1: Bloomberg