WEBVTT - Hopper Road 0:00:00.400 --> 0:00:03.920 The cheerleaders at a gym in Buffalo have been recording 0:00:03.960 --> 0:00:09.240 themselves to make a new documentary where the news reporters 0:00:09.240 --> 0:00:13.160 because one year ago a mass shooting changed their lives. 0:00:13.200 --> 0:00:15.400 He just walked around shot all the black people. The 0:00:15.480 --> 0:00:18.440 cheer squad, most of whom are black, had to figure 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:21.160 out how to go on and how to compete. I 0:00:21.280 --> 0:00:23.840 wanted to win for them more than anything this season. 0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:28.640 Listen to the embedded podcast from NPR within the iHeartRadio app, 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:32.720 or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Carol Fisher and 0:00:32.760 --> 0:00:36.800 I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends. It's Las Vegas, 0:00:36.960 --> 0:00:40.200 it's the nineteen nineties, and it is time to find 0:00:40.240 --> 0:00:44.560 a husband. There were four Jewish doctors who were felt 0:00:44.600 --> 0:00:48.040 to be eligible bachelors. One of them was of the 0:00:48.640 --> 0:00:53.239 Baron bat On paper, he was perfect, but in reality, 0:00:53.440 --> 0:00:58.080 this guy's a wacko. He shouted to the point went unconscious. 0:00:58.280 --> 0:01:00.560 I would call him and I would say, I know 0:01:00.600 --> 0:01:03.040 you killed my sister. You can listen to The girl 0:01:03.160 --> 0:01:07.440 Friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you 0:01:07.480 --> 0:01:10.840 get your podcasts. Hey, everybody, are you ready for a 0:01:10.880 --> 0:01:13.720 brand new podcast that you had no idea existed. I'm 0:01:13.800 --> 0:01:15.840 Rory Scoville and I'm Daniel van Kirk, and it's the 0:01:15.880 --> 0:01:18.440 pen Pals Podcast. Maybe you've had a pen pal before 0:01:18.480 --> 0:01:20.720 where you have two of them right now. You send 0:01:20.800 --> 0:01:23.200 us your letters about anything going on in your life. 0:01:23.240 --> 0:01:25.640 Gotta mean Grandma, need a new haircut, whatever it is, 0:01:25.880 --> 0:01:28.199 send it to us and we have guests like Will Ferrell, 0:01:28.240 --> 0:01:31.839 Andy Samberg, Rose Burne, Brett Goldstein, and Mandy Moore. Listen 0:01:31.840 --> 0:01:34.200 to the pen Pals podcast on Will Ferrell's Big Money 0:01:34.200 --> 0:01:37.840 Players Network, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 0:01:37.880 --> 0:01:41.600 you get your podcasts. Twenty five years ago, Viga pro 0:01:41.680 --> 0:01:45.520 Press disrupted the plumbing industry. Today, we're all about making 0:01:45.600 --> 0:01:49.240 big construction projects safer and keeping them on schedule. That's 0:01:49.280 --> 0:01:52.559 why we make Viga fittings in McPherson, Kansas, and ship 0:01:52.560 --> 0:01:56.040 our press systems out of massive distribution centers in Reno, 0:01:56.160 --> 0:01:59.280 Nevada and mcdonna, Georgia, to ensure that across to the 0:01:59.400 --> 0:02:02.880 US high rises will always have hot water and steel 0:02:02.920 --> 0:02:05.640 mills stay up and running. Twenty four to seven. Viga 0:02:05.680 --> 0:02:09.200 pro Press Mega Press Pure Flow the press fittings you 0:02:09.240 --> 0:02:12.000 need when you need them Welcome to The Piked and 0:02:12.080 --> 0:02:15.640 Massacre Returned to Pike County, a production of iHeartRadio and 0:02:15.760 --> 0:02:20.000 Katie Studios. You've got all these scenarios in your head. 0:02:20.120 --> 0:02:22.640 I think this may have happened, or maybe they did this. 0:02:23.280 --> 0:02:26.200 Every family of a murder victim does that. You lay 0:02:26.200 --> 0:02:28.440 in bed and you think, what happened? Why did they 0:02:28.480 --> 0:02:32.480 do this? Who did this? There's someone out there roaming 0:02:32.560 --> 0:02:37.040 around that killed two people that you could be standing 0:02:37.080 --> 0:02:44.400 beside in the grocery store, and that's scary. This is 0:02:44.440 --> 0:02:47.760 The Piked and Massacre Returned to Pike County, Season two, 0:02:48.000 --> 0:02:52.919 Episode ten, Hopper Road. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer 0:02:52.919 --> 0:02:56.480 at Katie Studios with Stephanie Lydecker and Jeff Shane. Over 0:02:56.520 --> 0:02:58.960 the course of producing this series, we've spoken to several 0:02:58.960 --> 0:03:01.480 members of the road and family. Because of a gag 0:03:01.600 --> 0:03:04.160 order and impending trials for the Wagner family, they have 0:03:04.240 --> 0:03:07.359 been unable to go on record, but earlier this year, 0:03:07.400 --> 0:03:09.480 one member of the family told us that her friend, 0:03:09.520 --> 0:03:12.280 a piked In resident named Angie Montgomery, wanted to share 0:03:12.280 --> 0:03:14.560 a story about her own family and a loss they 0:03:14.600 --> 0:03:18.200 had suffered some years back. Coincidentally, that same week, a 0:03:18.240 --> 0:03:22.040 listener wrote in asking about that exact case. So for 0:03:22.120 --> 0:03:24.360 this bonus episode, as we gear up to the season 0:03:24.360 --> 0:03:28.200 finale next week, we decided to look into it. Angie, 0:03:28.280 --> 0:03:30.799 perhaps more than most people, can empathize with what the 0:03:30.880 --> 0:03:33.800 Rodents are going through. When we spoke to Angie, she 0:03:33.840 --> 0:03:36.080 had just heard about Jake Wagner's plea deal in the 0:03:36.160 --> 0:03:39.960 Roden murder case. This news hit Angie especially hard. She 0:03:40.040 --> 0:03:42.400 told us that she immediately reached out to her Roden 0:03:42.480 --> 0:03:46.320 family friend. I remember texting her. I'm just telling her 0:03:46.360 --> 0:03:49.880 I was sorry. That had a hurt so bad, knowing 0:03:50.040 --> 0:03:53.400 that you sat down to eat Christmas dinner with these people, 0:03:53.720 --> 0:03:56.520 you went to church with these people, So I can't 0:03:56.520 --> 0:04:00.760 imagine finding that out. Angie reflects back on the day 0:04:00.800 --> 0:04:03.560 the bodies of eight members of the Roden family were found. 0:04:04.000 --> 0:04:06.840 I think we lost our innocence that day. We lost 0:04:06.840 --> 0:04:11.320 our wholesomeness, our trust, we lost everything. It was like 0:04:11.360 --> 0:04:14.880 you were in a daze. This isn't happening, and you're like, 0:04:14.960 --> 0:04:18.279 where am I living? What's going on here? It's crazy. 0:04:19.560 --> 0:04:22.799 Angie's bewilderment is no doubt informed by her own tragic 0:04:22.880 --> 0:04:26.000 loss ten years before the Roden family was gunned down. 0:04:26.160 --> 0:04:29.840 Her cousin Curtis Francis and his fiancee, Jennifer Brigett were 0:04:29.880 --> 0:04:33.440 also murdered in Pike County. Angie spoke with producer Chris 0:04:33.440 --> 0:04:35.840 Graves about it. I know this is probably hard, but 0:04:35.920 --> 0:04:38.960 can you describe for me what happened to Curtis and Jennifer. 0:04:39.040 --> 0:04:42.760 On December ninth, two thousand and six, Curtis was at 0:04:42.800 --> 0:04:46.760 his friend's house visiting. He had been drinking that day 0:04:46.800 --> 0:04:49.680 and having a little bit of fun, and Jenny had 0:04:49.720 --> 0:04:51.720 came down and told him that he needed to get home, 0:04:52.160 --> 0:04:58.240 and he laughed about ten thirty that night and went 0:04:58.320 --> 0:05:00.479 home and his mother talked to him and before he 0:05:00.520 --> 0:05:04.320 went to bed, it was about midnight I think, and 0:05:04.560 --> 0:05:08.000 Jenny had talked to a friend I think about eleven thirty, 0:05:08.080 --> 0:05:11.680 so they were going to bed. And the next day, 0:05:12.360 --> 0:05:16.839 nine one one call came in that Jenny's mother had 0:05:16.960 --> 0:05:21.440 found Curtis and Jenny. They had been shot in their bed. 0:05:23.720 --> 0:05:27.760 It was horrible. Curtis and Jenny were good people, you know. 0:05:28.360 --> 0:05:36.839 It was heartbreaking. It was just a shot. It's unsolved, correct, yes, 0:05:37.040 --> 0:05:41.520 fourteen years unsolved. It's a roller coaster. You go up 0:05:41.520 --> 0:05:43.760 and down. Every day you go up and down. You 0:05:43.800 --> 0:05:46.240 know today it's going to be the day something's going 0:05:46.320 --> 0:05:54.880 to happen and nothing. Just before their murders, thirty four 0:05:54.960 --> 0:05:57.719 year old Curtis Francis and thirty year old Jennifer Burgett 0:05:57.880 --> 0:06:01.440 where recently engaged couple living in Pike in Ohio. Your 0:06:01.480 --> 0:06:03.799 cousin Curtis, can you tell me a little bit about 0:06:03.880 --> 0:06:06.960 him and what he was like. Curtis was a good guy. 0:06:07.360 --> 0:06:10.360 He had a good heart, would help anybody. He was 0:06:10.400 --> 0:06:14.159 a hard worker, lovedy family. He was very loyal, and 0:06:14.320 --> 0:06:17.800 he was a very good person. He was a little 0:06:17.839 --> 0:06:21.600 bit older than me, and we would see each other, 0:06:21.640 --> 0:06:23.560 you know, when we were younger, but we really hung 0:06:23.560 --> 0:06:26.640 out were when we got older, like teenagers and in 0:06:26.680 --> 0:06:29.640 our early twenties. During that time, we were pretty close. 0:06:29.720 --> 0:06:31.760 He was like more like a big brother to me. 0:06:32.640 --> 0:06:36.320 What about Jennifer, his fiance. I'd like to call her 0:06:36.360 --> 0:06:39.080 a caretaker. She liked to take care of everybody. She 0:06:40.120 --> 0:06:43.360 loved animals, she liked to fish. She was a good soul. 0:06:43.720 --> 0:06:46.760 She had a good heart. And what were they like together? 0:06:47.440 --> 0:06:53.119 They were a cute couple. They were they would always 0:06:53.200 --> 0:06:56.640 joke around. Curtis liked to joke a lot and laughing 0:06:56.839 --> 0:07:00.120 and things, and they were just a normal cup Oh, 0:07:00.160 --> 0:07:05.880 I guess, hard working couple. Their murders just before Christmas 0:07:05.960 --> 0:07:08.120 in two thousand and six, we're a shock to everyone 0:07:08.160 --> 0:07:11.240 who knew the couple. Curtis and Jennifer were shot while 0:07:11.280 --> 0:07:14.080 they lie asleep in their home on Hopper Road in Piketon. 0:07:15.040 --> 0:07:17.240 It was later determined that the bullets that killed them 0:07:17.280 --> 0:07:21.280 were fired from a lever action rifle. I assume you 0:07:21.320 --> 0:07:23.680 guys tried to work with the police on this, right, 0:07:23.760 --> 0:07:27.120 How did that work? At first? The families being told 0:07:27.200 --> 0:07:30.360 Jenny and Curtis's family, you know, we don't know who 0:07:30.400 --> 0:07:32.720 did this, we don't know what's going on. You know, 0:07:33.040 --> 0:07:35.480 that's law enforcement. You trust them if they tell you, hey, 0:07:35.520 --> 0:07:38.240 we're working on this, we're going to get them. You know, 0:07:38.280 --> 0:07:41.560 you got to be patient, which everybody understands that you 0:07:41.560 --> 0:07:44.080 can't solve a murder in a day. Sometimes it takes 0:07:44.120 --> 0:07:47.120 a long time. But after fourteen years of being told, 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:53.200 going from we're working on it to not contacting at all, 0:07:53.680 --> 0:07:57.240 too well, we've went as far as we can go 0:07:57.320 --> 0:08:00.880 with this case. There's not really anything else we can 0:08:01.040 --> 0:08:06.360 do unless someone confesses or you know, something drastic happens 0:08:06.840 --> 0:08:10.760 that hurts. I think there was one article on it 0:08:10.960 --> 0:08:13.440 when it happened a few days after it happened in 0:08:13.480 --> 0:08:17.600 the local paper, and a few other media outlets picked 0:08:17.600 --> 0:08:20.720 it up and did a couple of articles, but after 0:08:20.760 --> 0:08:26.280 that there was nothing. You feel like you're never going 0:08:26.320 --> 0:08:30.840 to get justice, and then you worry about, hey, you 0:08:30.880 --> 0:08:32.960 know there's someone on the loose that could do this 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:38.239 to other families, and then that turns into kind of aggravation. 0:08:38.760 --> 0:08:42.480 Why is there anything being done? Why isn't this case important? 0:08:42.520 --> 0:08:50.280 Why is it my family important? But authorities had no answers. Eventually, 0:08:50.400 --> 0:08:52.800 the case that became known as the Hopper Road double 0:08:52.880 --> 0:08:59.880 murder went cold. Then in twenty twelve that was suddenly 0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:03.640 a movement. As part of his Ohio Unsawd Thomicide's initiative, 0:09:03.800 --> 0:09:07.320 an Attorney General Mike Dwyane revived the case, urging anyone 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:11.840 with information to come forward. He caught wind and he 0:09:12.200 --> 0:09:15.760 went on Channel ten news station out of Columbus and 0:09:16.640 --> 0:09:21.040 featured the Hopper Road murders, talked about it. They had 0:09:21.040 --> 0:09:23.240 a deputy from the Sheriff's department and talk about it, 0:09:23.280 --> 0:09:26.040 asking for tips. You know, anybody if they have any information. 0:09:26.600 --> 0:09:29.800 We believe they are. There's a person or people out 0:09:29.840 --> 0:09:33.640 there who have information who would enable us to solve 0:09:33.720 --> 0:09:38.559 the case. We had gotten a new sheriff and he 0:09:39.080 --> 0:09:42.400 wanted to reopen the case and try to get some 0:09:42.480 --> 0:09:44.520 help with it. How did that make you feel that 0:09:44.640 --> 0:09:47.160 you feel like someone was actually paying attention to you? Guys? Yeah, 0:09:47.200 --> 0:09:49.960 we were excited. You know, this is that somebody's going 0:09:50.000 --> 0:09:52.720 to do something. You know, we've got the Attorney General 0:09:52.760 --> 0:09:57.440 in this Something's going to happen. They followed a few 0:09:57.520 --> 0:10:04.640 leads and a few tips, but being cannon out in 0:10:04.720 --> 0:10:07.800 twenty fourteen, the investigation was handed back over to the 0:10:07.800 --> 0:10:11.480 Pike County Sheriff's office and it just went cold again. 0:10:16.080 --> 0:10:19.199 Two years later, in twenty sixteen, Jodie Barr, then an 0:10:19.200 --> 0:10:22.800 investigative reporter at Fox nineteen in Cincinnati, received an email 0:10:22.840 --> 0:10:25.840 from a woman named Paula Horne. It's saying, you know 0:10:25.920 --> 0:10:28.960 something to the effect of my son was wrongfully convicted 0:10:28.960 --> 0:10:32.440 of murder. And then she says I've got information in 0:10:32.480 --> 0:10:36.960 another cold case. So of course that got my attention. 0:10:37.840 --> 0:10:40.840 I go and meet with this woman and what ended 0:10:40.920 --> 0:10:45.920 up happening was Paula Horne's son, Eric was convicted of 0:10:45.920 --> 0:10:49.120 a separate murder in Pike County a few years before 0:10:49.400 --> 0:10:54.679 Curtain Jenny were murdered. He was convicted of murdering Paul Schope, 0:10:55.120 --> 0:10:58.160 shot him, killed him. He was convicted of that, but 0:10:58.840 --> 0:11:02.840 Paula Horne was on a mission to have her son, 0:11:03.000 --> 0:11:06.640 Eric Horne, set free from prison. Paula Horne was convinced 0:11:06.640 --> 0:11:10.679 her son did not do the murder, so she pulls 0:11:10.679 --> 0:11:13.520 this huge box out of a closet and it stacked 0:11:13.559 --> 0:11:18.480 full of papers and files. Paula Horne had collected a 0:11:18.520 --> 0:11:23.000 massive amount of documentation tied to her son's murder conviction, 0:11:24.040 --> 0:11:26.440 but it was documents within this archive pertaining to a 0:11:26.440 --> 0:11:30.120 different case that caught Jodie's eye, the murders of Curtis 0:11:30.120 --> 0:11:34.720 Francis and Jennifer Brigett on Hopper Road. As it turns out, 0:11:34.960 --> 0:11:37.679 Eric Horn knew Curtis Francis and was with him hours 0:11:37.720 --> 0:11:40.920 before he was murdered. In this box of documents that 0:11:41.000 --> 0:11:46.800 Paula Horne had were email communications between the prosecution and 0:11:47.080 --> 0:11:51.760 Eric Horne's on attorney in their plotting how Eric Horne 0:11:52.200 --> 0:11:55.080 would plead guilty in one case and the state would 0:11:55.160 --> 0:11:57.920 use him as a witness in the double murder on 0:11:58.000 --> 0:12:01.600 Hopper Road. Okay, this was essentially Eric Horne saying, I 0:12:01.640 --> 0:12:06.320 will trade information about this double murder for a plea 0:12:06.440 --> 0:12:10.760 deal in this Paul Shop murder. So Eric Horne had 0:12:10.760 --> 0:12:13.960 written out a statement it's called a proffer, where he's 0:12:14.000 --> 0:12:18.839 getting investigators information in one case to essentially help him 0:12:18.880 --> 0:12:25.160 in another. Eric Horne gave this proffer to investigators somewhere 0:12:25.200 --> 0:12:29.240 around September of two thousand and eight. So over the 0:12:29.280 --> 0:12:32.880 next month or so, Eric from prison writes his mother 0:12:32.960 --> 0:12:37.800 a letter and he tells her about what happened the 0:12:37.960 --> 0:12:43.240 night that Kurt Francis and Jennifer Burgett were murdered. According 0:12:43.280 --> 0:12:45.560 to his letter, Eric Horne told authorities that he was 0:12:45.559 --> 0:12:47.440 at a house on Wind Road and piked in on 0:12:47.520 --> 0:12:50.920 December ninth, two thousand and six. That night, a group 0:12:50.920 --> 0:12:53.760 including Curtis Francis, had gathered at the home for a party. 0:12:54.240 --> 0:12:56.600 Horn claimed that he left the wind Road home at 0:12:56.640 --> 0:13:00.560 around ten thirty pm and nevisa Curtis Francis again. But 0:13:00.920 --> 0:13:03.280 Horne said that just weeks later he ran into a 0:13:03.320 --> 0:13:05.920 man who was at the party. The man told Horn 0:13:06.040 --> 0:13:08.080 that he was forced to go to Curtis and Jennifer's 0:13:08.120 --> 0:13:10.559 house that night by his housemate, who shot the couple 0:13:10.640 --> 0:13:15.440 over a money dispute. Eric Horne never admits to having 0:13:15.600 --> 0:13:22.040 direct involvement with the actual murders themselves, but Eric Horne 0:13:22.240 --> 0:13:25.319 wrote in that letter that there was a lever action 0:13:25.480 --> 0:13:28.400 rifle that hung on the wall of the Howl's home 0:13:28.480 --> 0:13:32.079 on Wyn Road, and that after these murders happened, that 0:13:32.160 --> 0:13:39.880 gun was no longer on the wall. We're going to 0:13:39.880 --> 0:13:46.880 take a quick break here. We'll be back in a moment. Oh. 0:13:48.440 --> 0:13:51.440 I'm Carol Fisher, and I'm hosting a podcast called The 0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:54.959 Girl Friends. Back in the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas, 0:13:55.200 --> 0:13:59.600 a few of us dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob. 0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:05.840 He spoke several languages, he did medical missionary work, and 0:14:06.240 --> 0:14:10.480 he was Jewish. He was perfect on paper, but he wasn't. 0:14:10.760 --> 0:14:14.400 He really wasn't. He shouted and to the point she 0:14:14.679 --> 0:14:19.640 went unconscious. Bob could lie about anything, but only takes 0:14:19.800 --> 0:14:23.840 the one time when somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, 0:14:24.080 --> 0:14:27.080 us girlfriends know how to fight back. I wanted him 0:14:27.080 --> 0:14:29.800 to pay for his crime. He needed to be put 0:14:29.840 --> 0:14:31.920 to justice. I'll be honest with you. If I saw 0:14:32.000 --> 0:14:33.880 him right now, I'd spit on him. I would call 0:14:34.000 --> 0:14:36.840 him and I would say, I know you killed my sister. 0:14:37.200 --> 0:14:40.120 I will always hound you and haunt you. You can 0:14:40.200 --> 0:14:44.440 listen to the Girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast 0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:48.400 or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello and welcome to 0:14:48.520 --> 0:14:51.280 Bad Manners. This is the podcast that takes you inside 0:14:51.280 --> 0:14:54.840 britain stately homes and tells all the tales the guide 0:14:54.880 --> 0:14:58.240 books don't. My name is Tom Boughton and I'll be 0:14:58.280 --> 0:15:02.120 your host. Britain is riddled with the big houses, from 0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:06.920 crumbling castles, massive mansions and stately piles bigger than bucking 0:15:06.920 --> 0:15:09.560 and Palace. As a comedian, I'm not really bothered about 0:15:09.560 --> 0:15:11.800 the facts and figures. I just want the juicy stuff. 0:15:11.840 --> 0:15:14.080 So I'm on a mission to find out the frightening, 0:15:14.440 --> 0:15:18.479 filthy and downright jaw dropping stories of these stately homes 0:15:18.480 --> 0:15:23.040 and the people in them. This podcast ventures deep inside 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:27.000 some of Britain's most incredible and outrageous buildings to spill 0:15:27.080 --> 0:15:32.000 the tea on the scandalous, scary, shocking, and hilarious tales. 0:15:32.200 --> 0:15:35.400 So if you want to get historically horrid, royally raucous 0:15:35.680 --> 0:15:38.960 and down to some dirty look no further. Listen to 0:15:39.040 --> 0:15:43.200 Bad Manners on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 0:15:43.240 --> 0:15:50.200 you get your podcasts. Hi, this is Paris, Hilton. Some 0:15:50.240 --> 0:15:52.000 of the best times of my life have been spent 0:15:52.040 --> 0:15:55.400 inside of nightclubs, singing, dancing and being free to truly 0:15:55.440 --> 0:15:58.200 be myself. And now I'm the executive producer of a 0:15:58.240 --> 0:16:01.840 new show, The History of the World's Greatest Nightclubs. I 0:16:01.920 --> 0:16:05.000 wanted to show that represented freedom, joy and hope, and 0:16:05.080 --> 0:16:07.040 there is no one better to host than someone who 0:16:07.040 --> 0:16:10.000 has inspired me for so many years with her musical talent. 0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:13.280 I'm alternate and I've been in the music industry for 0:16:13.360 --> 0:16:17.800 three decades. I'm a singer, songwriter and musician, and now 0:16:17.920 --> 0:16:21.560 I'm inviting you to join me on this global nightclub journey. 0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:24.520 We'll dive into the origins of genres that broke the 0:16:24.560 --> 0:16:28.880 industry and uncover the stories of legendary DJs, all through 0:16:28.880 --> 0:16:31.360 the eyes of the people who partied at the height 0:16:31.480 --> 0:16:34.400 of club culture. Listen to the History of the World's 0:16:34.400 --> 0:16:38.720 Greatest Nightclubs on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever 0:16:38.880 --> 0:16:50.280 you get your podcasts. She's a Hollywood Western. She's Jack 0:16:50.360 --> 0:16:54.400 Kerouac Fund in a nap dress with braids. She is 0:16:54.560 --> 0:16:59.360 one of the most important American children's authors of the 0:16:59.440 --> 0:17:03.400 twenty century. She's the basis for a television show still 0:17:03.440 --> 0:17:07.160 watched around the world. Somebody somewhere is watching a Little 0:17:07.200 --> 0:17:11.560 Les Than. She's been called a hero, a racist, a feminist, 0:17:11.880 --> 0:17:15.040 and a propagandist. I think the harm is too great 0:17:15.080 --> 0:17:18.119 because it's just one more thing that Native children have 0:17:18.200 --> 0:17:23.159 to endure. She is Laura Ingles Wilder, author of the 0:17:23.200 --> 0:17:26.560 book series Little House on the Prairie. As a kid, 0:17:26.680 --> 0:17:29.720 I idolized Laura, and last summer I went on the 0:17:29.800 --> 0:17:33.080 road in search of the real Laura. We're literally on 0:17:33.119 --> 0:17:39.639 the prairie. What I found was a complicated person alongside 0:17:39.640 --> 0:17:44.280 the complicated country she represents. I'm Glennis McNichol, and this 0:17:44.720 --> 0:17:49.560 is Wilder. Listen to Wilder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple 0:17:49.600 --> 0:18:01.560 Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. The files collected 0:18:01.560 --> 0:18:04.520 by Paula Horn contained not only Eric Horn's statements, but 0:18:04.560 --> 0:18:07.400 accounts from other witnesses about the note of Curtis Francis 0:18:07.440 --> 0:18:10.280 and Jennifer Burgett's murders. What I was reading on them 0:18:10.359 --> 0:18:14.480 was unbelievable. There were witness statements out of an investigative 0:18:14.480 --> 0:18:16.760 file from the Pike County Sheriff's Office contained in this 0:18:16.920 --> 0:18:20.720 box of records. So this box of records contained every 0:18:20.760 --> 0:18:24.840 document that somebody like me could only dream of having 0:18:25.200 --> 0:18:29.040 when you start investigating a murder that's ten years old 0:18:29.080 --> 0:18:32.080 at that point in time. And what she had in 0:18:32.119 --> 0:18:36.680 her possession were documents that ultimately provided a whole lot 0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:40.480 of answers for you know, Kurt and Jenny's family. And 0:18:40.600 --> 0:18:43.639 we went over every shred of paper in this case file. 0:18:43.960 --> 0:18:47.280 I made sure I understood who every person was, who 0:18:47.280 --> 0:18:51.080 these players are, how they were connected. My next job 0:18:51.160 --> 0:18:54.000 was then to go talk to the victims families. So 0:18:54.280 --> 0:18:58.120 I went to Judy Conley, who was Kurt Francis's mother, 0:18:59.200 --> 0:19:01.639 Jody Barr reveal some of the other statements taken by 0:19:01.680 --> 0:19:04.560 police in their investigation into Kurt and Jennifer's murder to 0:19:04.600 --> 0:19:08.320 the family. These accounts, however, seemed to contradict what Eric 0:19:08.359 --> 0:19:12.880 Horn initially told authorities. Here again is Angie Montgomery. One 0:19:13.000 --> 0:19:16.720 statement is from a gentleman whose house Curtis was at 0:19:16.880 --> 0:19:21.399 the night that he got murdered. He stated that his 0:19:21.520 --> 0:19:26.960 brother and his friend, Eric Horne, had left after Curtis 0:19:26.960 --> 0:19:31.120 had left about ten thirty or eleven, and took a 0:19:31.240 --> 0:19:35.240 rifle off the wall and went and killed Curtis and Jenny, 0:19:35.640 --> 0:19:38.919 and that they came back with bloody clothes, and they 0:19:38.960 --> 0:19:41.560 got in the shower, took a shower, got the blood 0:19:41.920 --> 0:19:45.320 off of them, took their clothes out in the yard, 0:19:45.560 --> 0:19:48.679 and put them in a black trash bag and burnt 0:19:48.720 --> 0:19:54.119 them all at the command of his mother, because apparently 0:19:54.200 --> 0:19:57.960 Curtis owed the mother's fiance three hundred dollars, is what 0:19:58.000 --> 0:20:02.520 I was told. Then there's another statement, and they told 0:20:02.560 --> 0:20:06.200 the same story that they took a rifle off the wall, 0:20:07.040 --> 0:20:14.760 came back bloody, took a shower, burnt the clothes. Eric 0:20:14.840 --> 0:20:18.359 Horn denies any and all involvement in Curtis and Jennifer's murders. 0:20:19.040 --> 0:20:21.640 Jodi Barr knew that the information he had could help 0:20:21.680 --> 0:20:25.520 track down Curtis and Jennifer's killers, but there was one problem. 0:20:25.720 --> 0:20:29.440 Jody couldn't get any more information from investigators. We can't 0:20:29.480 --> 0:20:31.639 pull the records in this case. They're all under still 0:20:32.000 --> 0:20:35.280 this is still considered although it's cold. It's a pending 0:20:35.359 --> 0:20:39.199 open investigation, regardless of whether investigators are actively working it 0:20:39.280 --> 0:20:41.080 or not. These are not records you can get a 0:20:41.080 --> 0:20:43.040 hold of under the Open Records Act. So what do 0:20:43.160 --> 0:20:45.679 you have at that point? The only thing you have 0:20:45.960 --> 0:20:48.760 are the witnesses in family members who may have been 0:20:48.760 --> 0:20:53.200 in contact or who may have remembered something from back 0:20:53.280 --> 0:20:55.800 when this began. But I knew there was something here. 0:20:55.840 --> 0:20:58.000 I just had to get somebody from the family to 0:20:58.080 --> 0:21:01.080 work with us, to help us. And then all of 0:21:01.160 --> 0:21:04.720 a sudden, this guy with his huge winter jacket walks 0:21:04.720 --> 0:21:07.920 in from the backyard and he's greasy, he's been working 0:21:07.920 --> 0:21:12.800 on a car. And it's Paul Francis. His brother is 0:21:12.920 --> 0:21:17.719 Kurt Francis. And Judy introduces us, and I tell him 0:21:17.760 --> 0:21:21.600 why why I am there, and his whole demeanor changed. 0:21:22.080 --> 0:21:25.240 He looked angry, and I'm thinking, okay, you know this 0:21:25.320 --> 0:21:27.680 is this is gonna be one of those where I get, 0:21:27.720 --> 0:21:29.720 you know, hauled out of the house by my collar 0:21:29.760 --> 0:21:32.439 and my belt loops. And all Paul tells me is, 0:21:32.560 --> 0:21:36.080 let's get in your car. I've got something to show you. 0:21:37.520 --> 0:21:39.719 So Paul and I get in the car and we 0:21:39.840 --> 0:21:43.919 drive from his home over to Win Road and he 0:21:44.040 --> 0:21:46.439 walks me out to the edge of the property and 0:21:46.440 --> 0:21:49.399 he says, this is a well, and then he starts 0:21:49.400 --> 0:21:52.280 telling me the story about the story that it's well 0:21:52.359 --> 0:21:58.320 told that he just so happened to find. Paul told 0:21:58.400 --> 0:22:00.760 Jody that in July of twenty six teen, he was 0:22:00.800 --> 0:22:02.800 doing a plumbing job at the same house on Wind 0:22:02.880 --> 0:22:05.040 Road that Curtis was last seen at the night of 0:22:05.080 --> 0:22:07.760 his murder in two thousand and six. By this point, 0:22:07.800 --> 0:22:10.760 the previous owners had moved out. He's doing plumbing work, 0:22:11.119 --> 0:22:15.359 so he sees a waterline running outside with an electrical 0:22:15.400 --> 0:22:17.960 wire running out alongside the pipe. So he's trying to 0:22:17.960 --> 0:22:19.480 pull this water line up and it gets to a 0:22:19.480 --> 0:22:21.560 point where he can't pull it up out of the 0:22:21.600 --> 0:22:24.280 ground any longer. So then he just starts pulling this 0:22:24.400 --> 0:22:27.560 electrical wire and it, you know, it snakes across the 0:22:27.640 --> 0:22:29.639 yard and it goes down a hill under a pile 0:22:29.680 --> 0:22:32.280 of jump in the yard, as he described it, and 0:22:32.520 --> 0:22:37.600 he digs down and he finds this well shaft. Paul 0:22:37.640 --> 0:22:39.280 told me, in the back of his mind, his suspicion 0:22:39.400 --> 0:22:42.000 was that this could hold some sort of answer to 0:22:42.440 --> 0:22:46.440 his brothers and his sister in law's murder. He told 0:22:46.440 --> 0:22:50.800 me he had a gut feeling about it. So Paul 0:22:50.840 --> 0:22:53.840 Francis called the Pike County Sheriff's Office in to investigate. 0:22:54.440 --> 0:22:58.119 By twenty sixteen, the department was headed up by Charlie Reader, who, 0:22:58.160 --> 0:23:00.359 as we know, would later be jailed on charges related 0:23:00.400 --> 0:23:04.639 to corruption and office. At the moment when in twenty sixteen, 0:23:04.680 --> 0:23:07.280 what were you guys his feelings about Charlie Reader? Were 0:23:07.280 --> 0:23:11.239 you hopeful? Yeah, you're hopeful. With every new sheriff, he 0:23:11.359 --> 0:23:14.720 also had his hands full because the Rodent massacre had 0:23:14.760 --> 0:23:19.560 just happened. We knew that resources were probably stretched, but 0:23:19.720 --> 0:23:23.840 we also thought the BCI, the FBI, they're already down 0:23:23.880 --> 0:23:25.879 here in our county. That gave us a little bit 0:23:25.880 --> 0:23:28.920 of hope of maybe, hey, they'll the sheriff will say 0:23:28.920 --> 0:23:32.680 something and they'll pick up on this too. We were 0:23:32.920 --> 0:23:35.920 very hopeful that he would do something and something would 0:23:36.000 --> 0:23:40.720 would happen. So the sheriff, Charlie Reader, paid a local 0:23:40.760 --> 0:23:44.320 plumbing company to run a plumber's camera down the well. 0:23:46.800 --> 0:23:52.040 They were able to capture images of a handgun and 0:23:52.080 --> 0:23:56.240 then this lever action rifle. I mean that is very 0:23:56.320 --> 0:23:59.919 similar to the gun that Eric Horne described in his 0:24:00.160 --> 0:24:02.280 two thousand and eight letters that he sent his mom 0:24:02.320 --> 0:24:11.520 from prison. Let's stop here for another quick break. We'll 0:24:11.560 --> 0:24:18.960 be back in a moment. Oh. I'm Carol Fisher and 0:24:19.000 --> 0:24:22.119 I'm hosting a podcast called The Girl Friends. Back in 0:24:22.160 --> 0:24:25.159 the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas, a few of us 0:24:25.240 --> 0:24:30.280 dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob. He spoke 0:24:30.440 --> 0:24:36.440 several languages, he did medical missionary work, and he was Jewish. 0:24:36.800 --> 0:24:41.479 He was perfect on paper, but he wasn't. He really wasn't. 0:24:41.760 --> 0:24:46.119 He shouted into the point she went unconscious. Bob could 0:24:46.200 --> 0:24:50.040 lie about anything, but only takes the one time when 0:24:50.240 --> 0:24:54.280 somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, us girlfriends know 0:24:54.400 --> 0:24:56.879 how to fight back. I wanted him to pay for 0:24:57.040 --> 0:25:00.240 his crime. He needed to be put to justice. I'll 0:25:00.240 --> 0:25:02.520 be honest with your fistime right now, I'd spit on them. 0:25:02.560 --> 0:25:05.080 I would call him and I would say, I know 0:25:05.160 --> 0:25:08.159