1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:03,920 Speaker 1: The cheerleaders at a gym in Buffalo have been recording 2 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:09,240 Speaker 1: themselves to make a new documentary where the news reporters 3 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:13,160 Speaker 1: because one year ago a mass shooting changed their lives. 4 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 1: He just walked around shot all the black people. The 5 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:18,440 Speaker 1: cheer squad, most of whom are black, had to figure 6 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:21,160 Speaker 1: out how to go on and how to compete. I 7 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: wanted to win for them more than anything this season. 8 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:28,640 Speaker 1: Listen to the embedded podcast from NPR within the iHeartRadio app, 9 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Carol Fisher and 10 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 1: I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends. It's Las Vegas, 11 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:40,200 Speaker 1: it's the nineteen nineties, and it is time to find 12 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:44,560 Speaker 1: a husband. There were four Jewish doctors who were felt 13 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 1: to be eligible bachelors. One of them was of the 14 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:53,239 Speaker 1: Baron bat On paper, he was perfect, but in reality, 15 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 1: this guy's a wacko. He shouted to the point went unconscious. 16 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: I would call him and I would say, I know 17 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:03,040 Speaker 1: you killed my sister. You can listen to The girl 18 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 1: Friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you 19 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 1: get your podcasts. Hey, everybody, are you ready for a 20 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 1: brand new podcast that you had no idea existed. I'm 21 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:15,840 Speaker 1: Rory Scoville and I'm Daniel van Kirk, and it's the 22 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 1: pen Pals Podcast. Maybe you've had a pen pal before 23 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 1: where you have two of them right now. You send 24 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:23,200 Speaker 1: us your letters about anything going on in your life. 25 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 1: Gotta mean Grandma, need a new haircut, whatever it is, 26 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:28,199 Speaker 1: send it to us and we have guests like Will Ferrell, 27 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:31,839 Speaker 1: Andy Samberg, Rose Burne, Brett Goldstein, and Mandy Moore. Listen 28 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:34,200 Speaker 1: to the pen Pals podcast on Will Ferrell's Big Money 29 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 1: Players Network, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 30 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. Twenty five years ago, Viga pro 31 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 1: Press disrupted the plumbing industry. Today, we're all about making 32 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 1: big construction projects safer and keeping them on schedule. That's 33 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:52,559 Speaker 1: why we make Viga fittings in McPherson, Kansas, and ship 34 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 1: our press systems out of massive distribution centers in Reno, 35 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 1: Nevada and mcdonna, Georgia, to ensure that across to the 36 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 1: US high rises will always have hot water and steel 37 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:05,640 Speaker 1: mills stay up and running. Twenty four to seven. Viga 38 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:09,200 Speaker 1: pro Press Mega Press Pure Flow the press fittings you 39 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 1: need when you need them Welcome to The Piked and 40 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:15,640 Speaker 1: Massacre Returned to Pike County, a production of iHeartRadio and 41 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 1: Katie Studios. You've got all these scenarios in your head. 42 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:22,640 Speaker 1: I think this may have happened, or maybe they did this. 43 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 1: Every family of a murder victim does that. You lay 44 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 1: in bed and you think, what happened? Why did they 45 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 1: do this? Who did this? There's someone out there roaming 46 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:37,040 Speaker 1: around that killed two people that you could be standing 47 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:44,400 Speaker 1: beside in the grocery store, and that's scary. This is 48 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 1: The Piked and Massacre Returned to Pike County, Season two, 49 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:52,919 Speaker 1: Episode ten, Hopper Road. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer 50 00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 1: at Katie Studios with Stephanie Lydecker and Jeff Shane. Over 51 00:02:56,520 --> 00:02:58,960 Speaker 1: the course of producing this series, we've spoken to several 52 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 1: members of the road and family. Because of a gag 53 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 1: order and impending trials for the Wagner family, they have 54 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:07,359 Speaker 1: been unable to go on record, but earlier this year, 55 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 1: one member of the family told us that her friend, 56 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 1: a piked In resident named Angie Montgomery, wanted to share 57 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 1: a story about her own family and a loss they 58 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 1: had suffered some years back. Coincidentally, that same week, a 59 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 1: listener wrote in asking about that exact case. So for 60 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:24,360 Speaker 1: this bonus episode, as we gear up to the season 61 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 1: finale next week, we decided to look into it. Angie, 62 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:30,799 Speaker 1: perhaps more than most people, can empathize with what the 63 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:33,800 Speaker 1: Rodents are going through. When we spoke to Angie, she 64 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:36,080 Speaker 1: had just heard about Jake Wagner's plea deal in the 65 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 1: Roden murder case. This news hit Angie especially hard. She 66 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 1: told us that she immediately reached out to her Roden 67 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 1: family friend. I remember texting her. I'm just telling her 68 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 1: I was sorry. That had a hurt so bad, knowing 69 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 1: that you sat down to eat Christmas dinner with these people, 70 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 1: you went to church with these people, So I can't 71 00:03:56,520 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 1: imagine finding that out. Angie reflects back on the day 72 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:03,560 Speaker 1: the bodies of eight members of the Roden family were found. 73 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 1: I think we lost our innocence that day. We lost 74 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:11,320 Speaker 1: our wholesomeness, our trust, we lost everything. It was like 75 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:14,880 Speaker 1: you were in a daze. This isn't happening, and you're like, 76 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:18,279 Speaker 1: where am I living? What's going on here? It's crazy. 77 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:22,799 Speaker 1: Angie's bewilderment is no doubt informed by her own tragic 78 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 1: loss ten years before the Roden family was gunned down. 79 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:29,840 Speaker 1: Her cousin Curtis Francis and his fiancee, Jennifer Brigett were 80 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 1: also murdered in Pike County. Angie spoke with producer Chris 81 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:35,840 Speaker 1: Graves about it. I know this is probably hard, but 82 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 1: can you describe for me what happened to Curtis and Jennifer. 83 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 1: On December ninth, two thousand and six, Curtis was at 84 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 1: his friend's house visiting. He had been drinking that day 85 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 1: and having a little bit of fun, and Jenny had 86 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:51,720 Speaker 1: came down and told him that he needed to get home, 87 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 1: and he laughed about ten thirty that night and went 88 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:00,479 Speaker 1: home and his mother talked to him and before he 89 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 1: went to bed, it was about midnight I think, and 90 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 1: Jenny had talked to a friend I think about eleven thirty, 91 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:11,680 Speaker 1: so they were going to bed. And the next day, 92 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:16,839 Speaker 1: nine one one call came in that Jenny's mother had 93 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 1: found Curtis and Jenny. They had been shot in their bed. 94 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:27,760 Speaker 1: It was horrible. Curtis and Jenny were good people, you know. 95 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:36,839 Speaker 1: It was heartbreaking. It was just a shot. It's unsolved, correct, yes, 96 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 1: fourteen years unsolved. It's a roller coaster. You go up 97 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 1: and down. Every day you go up and down. You 98 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:46,240 Speaker 1: know today it's going to be the day something's going 99 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 1: to happen and nothing. Just before their murders, thirty four 100 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:57,719 Speaker 1: year old Curtis Francis and thirty year old Jennifer Burgett 101 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 1: where recently engaged couple living in Pike in Ohio. Your 102 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:03,799 Speaker 1: cousin Curtis, can you tell me a little bit about 103 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 1: him and what he was like. Curtis was a good guy. 104 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:10,360 Speaker 1: He had a good heart, would help anybody. He was 105 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:14,159 Speaker 1: a hard worker, lovedy family. He was very loyal, and 106 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:17,800 Speaker 1: he was a very good person. He was a little 107 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:21,600 Speaker 1: bit older than me, and we would see each other, 108 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 1: you know, when we were younger, but we really hung 109 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 1: out were when we got older, like teenagers and in 110 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 1: our early twenties. During that time, we were pretty close. 111 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 1: He was like more like a big brother to me. 112 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 1: What about Jennifer, his fiance. I'd like to call her 113 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 1: a caretaker. She liked to take care of everybody. She 114 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:43,360 Speaker 1: loved animals, she liked to fish. She was a good soul. 115 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 1: She had a good heart. And what were they like together? 116 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:53,119 Speaker 1: They were a cute couple. They were they would always 117 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:56,640 Speaker 1: joke around. Curtis liked to joke a lot and laughing 118 00:06:56,839 --> 00:07:00,120 Speaker 1: and things, and they were just a normal cup Oh, 119 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 1: I guess, hard working couple. Their murders just before Christmas 120 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 1: in two thousand and six, we're a shock to everyone 121 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:11,240 Speaker 1: who knew the couple. Curtis and Jennifer were shot while 122 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 1: they lie asleep in their home on Hopper Road in Piketon. 123 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 1: It was later determined that the bullets that killed them 124 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 1: were fired from a lever action rifle. I assume you 125 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:23,680 Speaker 1: guys tried to work with the police on this, right, 126 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:27,120 Speaker 1: How did that work? At first? The families being told 127 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 1: Jenny and Curtis's family, you know, we don't know who 128 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 1: did this, we don't know what's going on. You know, 129 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:35,480 Speaker 1: that's law enforcement. You trust them if they tell you, hey, 130 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 1: we're working on this, we're going to get them. You know, 131 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:41,560 Speaker 1: you got to be patient, which everybody understands that you 132 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 1: can't solve a murder in a day. Sometimes it takes 133 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 1: a long time. But after fourteen years of being told, 134 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 1: going from we're working on it to not contacting at all, 135 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:57,240 Speaker 1: too well, we've went as far as we can go 136 00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 1: with this case. There's not really anything else we can 137 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 1: do unless someone confesses or you know, something drastic happens 138 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 1: that hurts. I think there was one article on it 139 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 1: when it happened a few days after it happened in 140 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 1: the local paper, and a few other media outlets picked 141 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 1: it up and did a couple of articles, but after 142 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 1: that there was nothing. You feel like you're never going 143 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 1: to get justice, and then you worry about, hey, you 144 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:32,960 Speaker 1: know there's someone on the loose that could do this 145 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:38,239 Speaker 1: to other families, and then that turns into kind of aggravation. 146 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 1: Why is there anything being done? Why isn't this case important? 147 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 1: Why is it my family important? But authorities had no answers. Eventually, 148 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 1: the case that became known as the Hopper Road double 149 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:59,880 Speaker 1: murder went cold. Then in twenty twelve that was suddenly 150 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:03,640 Speaker 1: a movement. As part of his Ohio Unsawd Thomicide's initiative, 151 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:07,320 Speaker 1: an Attorney General Mike Dwyane revived the case, urging anyone 152 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:11,840 Speaker 1: with information to come forward. He caught wind and he 153 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:15,760 Speaker 1: went on Channel ten news station out of Columbus and 154 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 1: featured the Hopper Road murders, talked about it. They had 155 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 1: a deputy from the Sheriff's department and talk about it, 156 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 1: asking for tips. You know, anybody if they have any information. 157 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:29,800 Speaker 1: We believe they are. There's a person or people out 158 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:33,640 Speaker 1: there who have information who would enable us to solve 159 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:38,559 Speaker 1: the case. We had gotten a new sheriff and he 160 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 1: wanted to reopen the case and try to get some 161 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:44,520 Speaker 1: help with it. How did that make you feel that 162 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 1: you feel like someone was actually paying attention to you? Guys? Yeah, 163 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:49,960 Speaker 1: we were excited. You know, this is that somebody's going 164 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:52,720 Speaker 1: to do something. You know, we've got the Attorney General 165 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:57,440 Speaker 1: in this Something's going to happen. They followed a few 166 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 1: leads and a few tips, but being cannon out in 167 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 1: twenty fourteen, the investigation was handed back over to the 168 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 1: Pike County Sheriff's office and it just went cold again. 169 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:19,199 Speaker 1: Two years later, in twenty sixteen, Jodie Barr, then an 170 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 1: investigative reporter at Fox nineteen in Cincinnati, received an email 171 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:25,840 Speaker 1: from a woman named Paula Horne. It's saying, you know 172 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:28,960 Speaker 1: something to the effect of my son was wrongfully convicted 173 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:32,440 Speaker 1: of murder. And then she says I've got information in 174 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:36,960 Speaker 1: another cold case. So of course that got my attention. 175 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:40,840 Speaker 1: I go and meet with this woman and what ended 176 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:45,920 Speaker 1: up happening was Paula Horne's son, Eric was convicted of 177 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 1: a separate murder in Pike County a few years before 178 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:54,679 Speaker 1: Curtain Jenny were murdered. He was convicted of murdering Paul Schope, 179 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:58,160 Speaker 1: shot him, killed him. He was convicted of that, but 180 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:02,840 Speaker 1: Paula Horne was on a mission to have her son, 181 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 1: Eric Horne, set free from prison. Paula Horne was convinced 182 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:10,679 Speaker 1: her son did not do the murder, so she pulls 183 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:13,520 Speaker 1: this huge box out of a closet and it stacked 184 00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 1: full of papers and files. Paula Horne had collected a 185 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:23,000 Speaker 1: massive amount of documentation tied to her son's murder conviction, 186 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:26,440 Speaker 1: but it was documents within this archive pertaining to a 187 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:30,120 Speaker 1: different case that caught Jodie's eye, the murders of Curtis 188 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:34,720 Speaker 1: Francis and Jennifer Brigett on Hopper Road. As it turns out, 189 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:37,679 Speaker 1: Eric Horn knew Curtis Francis and was with him hours 190 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 1: before he was murdered. In this box of documents that 191 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 1: Paula Horne had were email communications between the prosecution and 192 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:51,760 Speaker 1: Eric Horne's on attorney in their plotting how Eric Horne 193 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:55,080 Speaker 1: would plead guilty in one case and the state would 194 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 1: use him as a witness in the double murder on 195 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:01,600 Speaker 1: Hopper Road. Okay, this was essentially Eric Horne saying, I 196 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:06,320 Speaker 1: will trade information about this double murder for a plea 197 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 1: deal in this Paul Shop murder. So Eric Horne had 198 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:13,960 Speaker 1: written out a statement it's called a proffer, where he's 199 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:18,839 Speaker 1: getting investigators information in one case to essentially help him 200 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 1: in another. Eric Horne gave this proffer to investigators somewhere 201 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 1: around September of two thousand and eight. So over the 202 00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:32,880 Speaker 1: next month or so, Eric from prison writes his mother 203 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:37,800 Speaker 1: a letter and he tells her about what happened the 204 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 1: night that Kurt Francis and Jennifer Burgett were murdered. According 205 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:45,560 Speaker 1: to his letter, Eric Horne told authorities that he was 206 00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:47,440 Speaker 1: at a house on Wind Road and piked in on 207 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:50,920 Speaker 1: December ninth, two thousand and six. That night, a group 208 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:53,760 Speaker 1: including Curtis Francis, had gathered at the home for a party. 209 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:56,600 Speaker 1: Horn claimed that he left the wind Road home at 210 00:12:56,640 --> 00:13:00,560 Speaker 1: around ten thirty pm and nevisa Curtis Francis again. But 211 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 1: Horne said that just weeks later he ran into a 212 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 1: man who was at the party. The man told Horn 213 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:08,080 Speaker 1: that he was forced to go to Curtis and Jennifer's 214 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:10,559 Speaker 1: house that night by his housemate, who shot the couple 215 00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:15,440 Speaker 1: over a money dispute. Eric Horne never admits to having 216 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 1: direct involvement with the actual murders themselves, but Eric Horne 217 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:25,319 Speaker 1: wrote in that letter that there was a lever action 218 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:28,400 Speaker 1: rifle that hung on the wall of the Howl's home 219 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:32,079 Speaker 1: on Wyn Road, and that after these murders happened, that 220 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:39,880 Speaker 1: gun was no longer on the wall. We're going to 221 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 1: take a quick break here. We'll be back in a moment. Oh. 222 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:51,440 Speaker 1: I'm Carol Fisher, and I'm hosting a podcast called The 223 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:54,959 Speaker 1: Girl Friends. Back in the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas, 224 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:59,600 Speaker 1: a few of us dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob. 225 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:05,840 Speaker 1: He spoke several languages, he did medical missionary work, and 226 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:10,480 Speaker 1: he was Jewish. He was perfect on paper, but he wasn't. 227 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:14,400 Speaker 1: He really wasn't. He shouted and to the point she 228 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 1: went unconscious. Bob could lie about anything, but only takes 229 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 1: the one time when somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, 230 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:27,080 Speaker 1: us girlfriends know how to fight back. I wanted him 231 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 1: to pay for his crime. He needed to be put 232 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:31,920 Speaker 1: to justice. I'll be honest with you. If I saw 233 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:33,880 Speaker 1: him right now, I'd spit on him. I would call 234 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 1: him and I would say, I know you killed my sister. 235 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:40,120 Speaker 1: I will always hound you and haunt you. You can 236 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 1: listen to the Girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast 237 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:48,400 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello and welcome to 238 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 1: Bad Manners. This is the podcast that takes you inside 239 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:54,840 Speaker 1: britain stately homes and tells all the tales the guide 240 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:58,240 Speaker 1: books don't. My name is Tom Boughton and I'll be 241 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 1: your host. Britain is riddled with the big houses, from 242 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 1: crumbling castles, massive mansions and stately piles bigger than bucking 243 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 1: and Palace. As a comedian, I'm not really bothered about 244 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 1: the facts and figures. I just want the juicy stuff. 245 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:14,080 Speaker 1: So I'm on a mission to find out the frightening, 246 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:18,479 Speaker 1: filthy and downright jaw dropping stories of these stately homes 247 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:23,040 Speaker 1: and the people in them. This podcast ventures deep inside 248 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:27,000 Speaker 1: some of Britain's most incredible and outrageous buildings to spill 249 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:32,000 Speaker 1: the tea on the scandalous, scary, shocking, and hilarious tales. 250 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:35,400 Speaker 1: So if you want to get historically horrid, royally raucous 251 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 1: and down to some dirty look no further. Listen to 252 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 1: Bad Manners on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 253 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:50,200 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. Hi, this is Paris, Hilton. Some 254 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 1: of the best times of my life have been spent 255 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:55,400 Speaker 1: inside of nightclubs, singing, dancing and being free to truly 256 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 1: be myself. And now I'm the executive producer of a 257 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 1: new show, The History of the World's Greatest Nightclubs. I 258 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 1: wanted to show that represented freedom, joy and hope, and 259 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:07,040 Speaker 1: there is no one better to host than someone who 260 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:10,000 Speaker 1: has inspired me for so many years with her musical talent. 261 00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:13,280 Speaker 1: I'm alternate and I've been in the music industry for 262 00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:17,800 Speaker 1: three decades. I'm a singer, songwriter and musician, and now 263 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:21,560 Speaker 1: I'm inviting you to join me on this global nightclub journey. 264 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:24,520 Speaker 1: We'll dive into the origins of genres that broke the 265 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:28,880 Speaker 1: industry and uncover the stories of legendary DJs, all through 266 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:31,360 Speaker 1: the eyes of the people who partied at the height 267 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 1: of club culture. Listen to the History of the World's 268 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:38,720 Speaker 1: Greatest Nightclubs on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever 269 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. She's a Hollywood Western. She's Jack 270 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 1: Kerouac Fund in a nap dress with braids. She is 271 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 1: one of the most important American children's authors of the 272 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 1: twenty century. She's the basis for a television show still 273 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:07,160 Speaker 1: watched around the world. Somebody somewhere is watching a Little 274 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 1: Les Than. She's been called a hero, a racist, a feminist, 275 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:15,040 Speaker 1: and a propagandist. I think the harm is too great 276 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:18,119 Speaker 1: because it's just one more thing that Native children have 277 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:23,159 Speaker 1: to endure. She is Laura Ingles Wilder, author of the 278 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 1: book series Little House on the Prairie. As a kid, 279 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:29,720 Speaker 1: I idolized Laura, and last summer I went on the 280 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 1: road in search of the real Laura. We're literally on 281 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:39,639 Speaker 1: the prairie. What I found was a complicated person alongside 282 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 1: the complicated country she represents. I'm Glennis McNichol, and this 283 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 1: is Wilder. Listen to Wilder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple 284 00:17:49,600 --> 00:18:01,560 Speaker 1: Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. The files collected 285 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 1: by Paula Horn contained not only Eric Horn's statements, but 286 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:07,400 Speaker 1: accounts from other witnesses about the note of Curtis Francis 287 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:10,280 Speaker 1: and Jennifer Burgett's murders. What I was reading on them 288 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:14,480 Speaker 1: was unbelievable. There were witness statements out of an investigative 289 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 1: file from the Pike County Sheriff's Office contained in this 290 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:20,720 Speaker 1: box of records. So this box of records contained every 291 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:24,840 Speaker 1: document that somebody like me could only dream of having 292 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:29,040 Speaker 1: when you start investigating a murder that's ten years old 293 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 1: at that point in time. And what she had in 294 00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:36,680 Speaker 1: her possession were documents that ultimately provided a whole lot 295 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:40,480 Speaker 1: of answers for you know, Kurt and Jenny's family. And 296 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:43,639 Speaker 1: we went over every shred of paper in this case file. 297 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:47,280 Speaker 1: I made sure I understood who every person was, who 298 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 1: these players are, how they were connected. My next job 299 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:54,000 Speaker 1: was then to go talk to the victims families. So 300 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:58,120 Speaker 1: I went to Judy Conley, who was Kurt Francis's mother, 301 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:01,639 Speaker 1: Jody Barr reveal some of the other statements taken by 302 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:04,560 Speaker 1: police in their investigation into Kurt and Jennifer's murder to 303 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 1: the family. These accounts, however, seemed to contradict what Eric 304 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:12,880 Speaker 1: Horn initially told authorities. Here again is Angie Montgomery. One 305 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:16,720 Speaker 1: statement is from a gentleman whose house Curtis was at 306 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:21,399 Speaker 1: the night that he got murdered. He stated that his 307 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:26,960 Speaker 1: brother and his friend, Eric Horne, had left after Curtis 308 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:31,120 Speaker 1: had left about ten thirty or eleven, and took a 309 00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 1: rifle off the wall and went and killed Curtis and Jenny, 310 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:38,919 Speaker 1: and that they came back with bloody clothes, and they 311 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:41,560 Speaker 1: got in the shower, took a shower, got the blood 312 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:45,320 Speaker 1: off of them, took their clothes out in the yard, 313 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:48,679 Speaker 1: and put them in a black trash bag and burnt 314 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:54,119 Speaker 1: them all at the command of his mother, because apparently 315 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:57,960 Speaker 1: Curtis owed the mother's fiance three hundred dollars, is what 316 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 1: I was told. Then there's another statement, and they told 317 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:06,200 Speaker 1: the same story that they took a rifle off the wall, 318 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:14,760 Speaker 1: came back bloody, took a shower, burnt the clothes. Eric 319 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:18,359 Speaker 1: Horn denies any and all involvement in Curtis and Jennifer's murders. 320 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:21,640 Speaker 1: Jodi Barr knew that the information he had could help 321 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:25,520 Speaker 1: track down Curtis and Jennifer's killers, but there was one problem. 322 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:29,440 Speaker 1: Jody couldn't get any more information from investigators. We can't 323 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:31,639 Speaker 1: pull the records in this case. They're all under still 324 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 1: this is still considered although it's cold. It's a pending 325 00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:39,199 Speaker 1: open investigation, regardless of whether investigators are actively working it 326 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:41,080 Speaker 1: or not. These are not records you can get a 327 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:43,040 Speaker 1: hold of under the Open Records Act. So what do 328 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:45,679 Speaker 1: you have at that point? The only thing you have 329 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 1: are the witnesses in family members who may have been 330 00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:53,200 Speaker 1: in contact or who may have remembered something from back 331 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 1: when this began. But I knew there was something here. 332 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 1: I just had to get somebody from the family to 333 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:01,080 Speaker 1: work with us, to help us. And then all of 334 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:04,720 Speaker 1: a sudden, this guy with his huge winter jacket walks 335 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:07,920 Speaker 1: in from the backyard and he's greasy, he's been working 336 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:12,800 Speaker 1: on a car. And it's Paul Francis. His brother is 337 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:17,719 Speaker 1: Kurt Francis. And Judy introduces us, and I tell him 338 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 1: why why I am there, and his whole demeanor changed. 339 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 1: He looked angry, and I'm thinking, okay, you know this 340 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:27,680 Speaker 1: is this is gonna be one of those where I get, 341 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:29,720 Speaker 1: you know, hauled out of the house by my collar 342 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:32,439 Speaker 1: and my belt loops. And all Paul tells me is, 343 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:36,080 Speaker 1: let's get in your car. I've got something to show you. 344 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:39,719 Speaker 1: So Paul and I get in the car and we 345 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:43,919 Speaker 1: drive from his home over to Win Road and he 346 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:46,439 Speaker 1: walks me out to the edge of the property and 347 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:49,399 Speaker 1: he says, this is a well, and then he starts 348 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:52,280 Speaker 1: telling me the story about the story that it's well 349 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:58,320 Speaker 1: told that he just so happened to find. Paul told 350 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:00,760 Speaker 1: Jody that in July of twenty six teen, he was 351 00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:02,800 Speaker 1: doing a plumbing job at the same house on Wind 352 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 1: Road that Curtis was last seen at the night of 353 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:07,760 Speaker 1: his murder in two thousand and six. By this point, 354 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:10,760 Speaker 1: the previous owners had moved out. He's doing plumbing work, 355 00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:15,359 Speaker 1: so he sees a waterline running outside with an electrical 356 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:17,960 Speaker 1: wire running out alongside the pipe. So he's trying to 357 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:19,480 Speaker 1: pull this water line up and it gets to a 358 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:21,560 Speaker 1: point where he can't pull it up out of the 359 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 1: ground any longer. So then he just starts pulling this 360 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:27,560 Speaker 1: electrical wire and it, you know, it snakes across the 361 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:29,639 Speaker 1: yard and it goes down a hill under a pile 362 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:32,280 Speaker 1: of jump in the yard, as he described it, and 363 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:37,600 Speaker 1: he digs down and he finds this well shaft. Paul 364 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:39,280 Speaker 1: told me, in the back of his mind, his suspicion 365 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:42,000 Speaker 1: was that this could hold some sort of answer to 366 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:46,440 Speaker 1: his brothers and his sister in law's murder. He told 367 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 1: me he had a gut feeling about it. So Paul 368 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 1: Francis called the Pike County Sheriff's Office in to investigate. 369 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:58,119 Speaker 1: By twenty sixteen, the department was headed up by Charlie Reader, who, 370 00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:00,359 Speaker 1: as we know, would later be jailed on charges related 371 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:04,639 Speaker 1: to corruption and office. At the moment when in twenty sixteen, 372 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:07,280 Speaker 1: what were you guys his feelings about Charlie Reader? Were 373 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:11,239 Speaker 1: you hopeful? Yeah, you're hopeful. With every new sheriff, he 374 00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:14,720 Speaker 1: also had his hands full because the Rodent massacre had 375 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:19,560 Speaker 1: just happened. We knew that resources were probably stretched, but 376 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:23,840 Speaker 1: we also thought the BCI, the FBI, they're already down 377 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:25,879 Speaker 1: here in our county. That gave us a little bit 378 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:28,920 Speaker 1: of hope of maybe, hey, they'll the sheriff will say 379 00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:32,680 Speaker 1: something and they'll pick up on this too. We were 380 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:35,920 Speaker 1: very hopeful that he would do something and something would 381 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:40,720 Speaker 1: would happen. So the sheriff, Charlie Reader, paid a local 382 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:44,320 Speaker 1: plumbing company to run a plumber's camera down the well. 383 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:52,040 Speaker 1: They were able to capture images of a handgun and 384 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:56,240 Speaker 1: then this lever action rifle. I mean that is very 385 00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:59,919 Speaker 1: similar to the gun that Eric Horne described in his 386 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:02,280 Speaker 1: two thousand and eight letters that he sent his mom 387 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:11,520 Speaker 1: from prison. Let's stop here for another quick break. We'll 388 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:18,960 Speaker 1: be back in a moment. Oh. I'm Carol Fisher and 389 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:22,119 Speaker 1: I'm hosting a podcast called The Girl Friends. Back in 390 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:25,159 Speaker 1: the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas, a few of us 391 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:30,280 Speaker 1: dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob. He spoke 392 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:36,440 Speaker 1: several languages, he did medical missionary work, and he was Jewish. 393 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:41,479 Speaker 1: He was perfect on paper, but he wasn't. He really wasn't. 394 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:46,119 Speaker 1: He shouted into the point she went unconscious. Bob could 395 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:50,040 Speaker 1: lie about anything, but only takes the one time when 396 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:54,280 Speaker 1: somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, us girlfriends know 397 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:56,879 Speaker 1: how to fight back. I wanted him to pay for 398 00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:00,240 Speaker 1: his crime. He needed to be put to justice. I'll 399 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:02,520 Speaker 1: be honest with your fistime right now, I'd spit on them. 400 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 1: I would call him and I would say, I know 401 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:08,159 Speaker 1: you killed my sister. I will always hound you and 402 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:10,960 Speaker 1: haunt you. You can listen to The Girlfriend on the 403 00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:16,639 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, 404 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:19,679 Speaker 1: and welcome to Bad Manners. This is the podcast that 405 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:22,959 Speaker 1: takes you inside Britain's stately homes and tells all the 406 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:26,919 Speaker 1: tales the guide books don't. My name is Tom Horton 407 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:30,320 Speaker 1: and I'll be your host. Britain is riddled with the 408 00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:35,360 Speaker 1: big houses, from crumbling castles, massive mansions and stately piles 409 00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 1: bigger than bucking and Palace. As a comedian, I'm not 410 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:40,280 Speaker 1: really bothered about the facts and figures. I just want 411 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:42,480 Speaker 1: the juicy stuff. So I'm on a mission to find 412 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:46,359 Speaker 1: out the frightening, filthy and downright jaw dropping stories of 413 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:50,639 Speaker 1: these stately homes and the people in them. This podcast 414 00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:54,920 Speaker 1: ventures deep inside some of Britain's most incredible and outrageous 415 00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:59,360 Speaker 1: buildings to spill the tea on the scandalous, scary, shocking 416 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:03,399 Speaker 1: and hilarious tales. So if you want to get historically horrid, 417 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 1: royally raucous and down some dirty, look no further. Listen 418 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:12,040 Speaker 1: to Bad Manners on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or 419 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:18,879 Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, this is Paris Hilton. 420 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:21,000 Speaker 1: Some of the best times of my life have been 421 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:24,240 Speaker 1: spent inside of nightclubs, singing, dancing and being free to 422 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:27,359 Speaker 1: truly be myself. And now I'm the executive producer of 423 00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:30,720 Speaker 1: a new show, The History of the World's Greatest Nightclubs. 424 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:33,879 Speaker 1: I wanted a show that represented freedom, joy and hope, 425 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:36,080 Speaker 1: and there is no one better to host than someone 426 00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:38,439 Speaker 1: who has inspired me for so many years with her 427 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,920 Speaker 1: musical talent. I'm alternate and I've been in the music 428 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:46,160 Speaker 1: industry for three decades. I'm a singer, songwriter, and musician, 429 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:49,200 Speaker 1: and now I'm inviting you to join me on this 430 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:53,200 Speaker 1: global nightclub journey. We'll dive into the origins of genres 431 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:57,280 Speaker 1: that broke the industry and uncover the stories of legendary DJs, 432 00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,200 Speaker 1: all through the eyes of the people who partied at 433 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,119 Speaker 1: the hype of club culture. Listen to the History of 434 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:07,240 Speaker 1: the World's Greatest Nightclubs on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 435 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:17,400 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. Everybody, we know there 436 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:19,879 Speaker 1: are a ton of podcasts out there. Well, we have 437 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:21,879 Speaker 1: one we would love for you to check out. It 438 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:24,720 Speaker 1: is called The pen Pals Podcast with Daniel Van Kirk 439 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:28,200 Speaker 1: and Rory Scoville. We are both stand up comedians where 440 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:30,800 Speaker 1: actors were writers, but now most of all, we are 441 00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:34,080 Speaker 1: your pen pals. Every single episode we get two letters 442 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:37,240 Speaker 1: that we read from our listeners, our new pen pals. 443 00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:39,359 Speaker 1: It can be about anything going on in their life. 444 00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:42,119 Speaker 1: And sometimes we're also joined by guests like Will Ferrell. 445 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:43,640 Speaker 1: I'm gonna bring you up in front of the group. 446 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 1: I'm gonna punch you as hard as I can in 447 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:48,040 Speaker 1: the stomach. Rose burn, Well, this is West Hollywood. We 448 00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:54,199 Speaker 1: keep it clean. Jo considered, Brian, I'm just showing you 449 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:57,280 Speaker 1: that my mind is quick, if not that funny. And 450 00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,320 Speaker 1: Mandy Moore, we're all crossing the line together. Listen to 451 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:03,320 Speaker 1: the pen Pals podcast on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network, 452 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:06,680 Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get 453 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:09,439 Speaker 1: your podcasts, and serely your new pen Pals Daniel van 454 00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:24,520 Speaker 1: Kirk and Rory Scobell. Authorities also found burnt clothing, a 455 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:28,320 Speaker 1: detail relayed in Eric Hoorn's statement this could have been 456 00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:32,800 Speaker 1: the break in the case. The only physical evidence that 457 00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:37,240 Speaker 1: we know of was down a well shaft, and the 458 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:41,120 Speaker 1: Sheriff's office was just feet away from being able to 459 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:44,200 Speaker 1: get their hands on it, bag it, process it, and 460 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:48,880 Speaker 1: potentially prosecute somebody in the Hopper Road double murder. So 461 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:51,360 Speaker 1: then they were faced with the task of how do 462 00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:53,600 Speaker 1: we get these guns out? Of this well. It's an 463 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,280 Speaker 1: eight inch pipe you know, that goes down into a well. 464 00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:00,800 Speaker 1: So they tried with a magnet I was old, and 465 00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:06,960 Speaker 1: when that failed, they called in a firetruck. The idea 466 00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 1: was to use the fire hose to fill the well 467 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:11,160 Speaker 1: with water, which wouldn't turn lift the guns back up 468 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:14,280 Speaker 1: to the surface for authorities to retrieve. But things did 469 00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:18,880 Speaker 1: not go as expected. They placed the fire hose in 470 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:22,680 Speaker 1: the pipe and turned the water on. It blew the 471 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:26,480 Speaker 1: bottom of the well out and knocked like an eighty 472 00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:31,600 Speaker 1: foot hole in the well, took the guns with it, 473 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:35,000 Speaker 1: So yourself is ultimately ends up getting a welder out there. 474 00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:37,600 Speaker 1: The welder welds a plate over top of this well, 475 00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:41,560 Speaker 1: and that's where it sat since July of twenty sixteen. 476 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:46,600 Speaker 1: And you know, here we are years later. The likelihood 477 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:49,960 Speaker 1: that it's ever recovered, it's not looking very good. Right now. 478 00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:58,560 Speaker 1: How did that feel pre you guys? Horrible? I'm gonna 479 00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:08,200 Speaker 1: get emotional and felt horrible. Anger. No, this is that 480 00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:12,320 Speaker 1: was probably the biggest break we'll ever getting that in 481 00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 1: this case. Ever, despite potential evidence being lost, Jodie Barr 482 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:22,360 Speaker 1: pressed on with his investigation. In twenty seventeen, he went 483 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:24,800 Speaker 1: forward with a series of reports on the Hopper Road 484 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,440 Speaker 1: double murder case. The Pike County sheriff at the time, 485 00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,320 Speaker 1: Charlie Reader, when I was looking into this case, told 486 00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:32,920 Speaker 1: me that he developed a cold case unit within his 487 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 1: Sheriff's office and he had some seasoned law enforcement officials, investigators, 488 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:42,040 Speaker 1: criminal profilers on this team, and they were looking into 489 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:45,960 Speaker 1: the Hopper Road cold case. So I got an interview 490 00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:49,480 Speaker 1: with those four men, and I wanted to know more 491 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:51,640 Speaker 1: about the well. I wanted to tune them about this 492 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:54,320 Speaker 1: evidence in the bottom of this well. I wanted to know. 493 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:57,320 Speaker 1: I named all the names that were contained in these 494 00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:01,760 Speaker 1: witness statements. You know, I had all four members of 495 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 1: this cold case unit sitting in front of me in 496 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:06,880 Speaker 1: an interview inside the Sheriff's office, and all I got 497 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:11,560 Speaker 1: from this cold case unit was no comment. Every question 498 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:14,280 Speaker 1: was a no comment. Have you been able to develop 499 00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:19,360 Speaker 1: any type of motive profile of the suspects? No comment? 500 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:23,800 Speaker 1: So you know we were at the end of the road. 501 00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:30,040 Speaker 1: Jody's reporting on Curtis and Jennifer's murder also received some 502 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:32,920 Speaker 1: pushback from the Pike County community, mainly due to his 503 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:36,280 Speaker 1: interactions with Sheriff Charlie Reader. At the time, the people 504 00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:40,720 Speaker 1: in Pike County that seen Jody's airing of the Hopper 505 00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:46,080 Speaker 1: Room murders had a different perspective on mister Barr because 506 00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:49,680 Speaker 1: of the investigation he did at the road and warehouse 507 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:53,880 Speaker 1: with mister Reader. Mister Reader had got on Facebook and 508 00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:59,040 Speaker 1: had a huge rant aimed at mister Barr. And I 509 00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:02,760 Speaker 1: like to say they mister Reader's kool aid. People are saying, 510 00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:05,959 Speaker 1: you know, this guy's just down here to make the 511 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:09,560 Speaker 1: Pike County Sheriff's office and Charlie Reader look horrible. And 512 00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:12,720 Speaker 1: so I had a lot of people messaging me saying, 513 00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:16,120 Speaker 1: I can't believe that your family would let that guy 514 00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:21,000 Speaker 1: do a report on this case. And you know, he's 515 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:24,560 Speaker 1: just a troublemaker. He isn't even from around here. And 516 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:27,920 Speaker 1: I would always bite back and say, at least he cares, 517 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:34,120 Speaker 1: you know, he's the only one that cares. Jody and 518 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:35,840 Speaker 1: I mean this with all my heart, and I hope 519 00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:39,680 Speaker 1: I can get it out without crimes. He really does 520 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:44,680 Speaker 1: care about my family. He is in constant contact with me. 521 00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:47,920 Speaker 1: He has helped me, he has listened to me cry. 522 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:53,400 Speaker 1: He's just as aggravated as we are. He's a very 523 00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:56,480 Speaker 1: caring person and he and he was. He's a godsend. 524 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:03,120 Speaker 1: Jodi Barr supporting helped raise awareness about Curtis and Jennifer's murders, 525 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:07,200 Speaker 1: but police were seemingly unable to make any progress. Still today, 526 00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:11,080 Speaker 1: no one's been arrested. Curtain. Jenny's family have no more 527 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:14,200 Speaker 1: answers today than they had when we rolled out of 528 00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:17,160 Speaker 1: Pike County for the last time and aired the final 529 00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:23,280 Speaker 1: broadcast into this case. From your extensive investigation, it seems 530 00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:27,880 Speaker 1: as though investigators know what might have happened to Curtis 531 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,720 Speaker 1: and Jennifer and who may have done it. Why do 532 00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:34,120 Speaker 1: you think there has been an arrest, That's my question. 533 00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:36,600 Speaker 1: I don't know why there hasn't been an arrest. I 534 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:39,800 Speaker 1: don't know the investigators just didn't have enough. I don't 535 00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:43,720 Speaker 1: know what else was needed to finish his investigation. You've 536 00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:47,320 Speaker 1: got people in these statements telling stories that you know 537 00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:49,680 Speaker 1: spell out what happened. When you know the people who 538 00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:53,160 Speaker 1: were identified in these statements as having gone to this 539 00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:57,480 Speaker 1: murder scene committed these crimes and came back home. So 540 00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:02,040 Speaker 1: I don't know why or what or where investigators are 541 00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:06,440 Speaker 1: at this point in time. This is We're fifteen years 542 00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:09,040 Speaker 1: down the road and no arrest. So as far as 543 00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:12,800 Speaker 1: the family's concerned, and I talked to them regularly still today. 544 00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:15,400 Speaker 1: I mean, they just they feel like this was a 545 00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:18,959 Speaker 1: miscarriage of not even justice. They didn't get that far. 546 00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:24,360 Speaker 1: It's just an incomplete investigation. You just hope one day 547 00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:27,719 Speaker 1: you'll be able to finish the story because at this point, 548 00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:30,680 Speaker 1: you know, two people are dead and it appears that 549 00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:34,400 Speaker 1: whoever did this is you know, gotten away with murder. 550 00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:40,319 Speaker 1: But that won't be the case if Anti Montgomery has 551 00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:43,440 Speaker 1: anything to do with it. You're still on this mission 552 00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:47,239 Speaker 1: to get answers, to get justice, and also to make 553 00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:50,560 Speaker 1: sure that it doesn't happen to another family. Right. I 554 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:53,360 Speaker 1: got my kids up where they were a little bit older. 555 00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:55,480 Speaker 1: I had a little bit of time on my hands, 556 00:34:55,960 --> 00:35:00,319 Speaker 1: so I started going full force with getting the road 557 00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:03,919 Speaker 1: case out into the public speaking. I went to the prosecutor, 558 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:07,280 Speaker 1: spoke with him a few times. I went to the sheriff's. 559 00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:11,400 Speaker 1: We had an interim sheriff when mister Reader got suspended. 560 00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:16,560 Speaker 1: We're told just hang on, you know helps coming, and 561 00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:19,719 Speaker 1: it never does. And I noticed that it's always when 562 00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:23,160 Speaker 1: I get really rowdy squeaky. Will gets the most grease. 563 00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:28,399 Speaker 1: When I start squeaking, I'll get a phone call, hey, 564 00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:32,359 Speaker 1: you know, just hang on. I'm going to figure something out, 565 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:38,840 Speaker 1: and nothing happens and we're tired of it. That's what 566 00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:42,359 Speaker 1: I get the most emotional about is just feeling like 567 00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:47,200 Speaker 1: nobody cares and I can't imagine what curtain Jenny's mom 568 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:52,040 Speaker 1: their mothers feel like. That's another thing that puts the 569 00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:55,719 Speaker 1: fire under my ass. It's never it's not going to 570 00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:58,640 Speaker 1: bring them back. You'll always have a hole in your 571 00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:03,120 Speaker 1: heart from that. But I would love to see someone 572 00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:07,640 Speaker 1: get arrested for Curtis and Jennifer's murder and get prosecuted 573 00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:23,799 Speaker 1: and that we get justice. For more information on the 574 00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:27,080 Speaker 1: case and relevant photos, follow us on Instagram at Katie 575 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:31,400 Speaker 1: Underscore Studios. Next week we'll be bringing you the season finale, 576 00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:34,440 Speaker 1: where a full panel of contributors will answer listener questions. 577 00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:36,880 Speaker 1: So please write us with anything you want to know. 578 00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:39,280 Speaker 1: This week is your last chance to get the questions 579 00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:42,319 Speaker 1: in the Piked and Massacre Returned to Pike County is 580 00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:46,480 Speaker 1: executive produced by Stephanie Lydecker and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing 581 00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:50,600 Speaker 1: and sound designed by executive producer Jared Aston, Additional producing 582 00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:54,120 Speaker 1: by Jeff Shane, Andrew Becker, and Chris Graves. The Piked 583 00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:56,600 Speaker 1: and Massacre Returned to Pike County is a production of 584 00:36:56,600 --> 00:37:00,560 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and Katie Studios. For more podcasts for my heart Radio, 585 00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:04,360 Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 586 00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:05,480 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.