WEBVTT - Steve McQueen 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:03.720 Welcome to River Cafe, Table four, a production of iHeartRadio 0:00:03.760 --> 0:00:11.640 and Adami Studios. 0:00:12.119 --> 0:00:15.120 Sitting here in the River Cafe on a Sunday Monday morning, 0:00:16.040 --> 0:00:19.360 with chefs in the kitchen making ravioli, with hiroles and 0:00:19.440 --> 0:00:23.040 waiters laying tables in the garden, the uncertain world we 0:00:23.160 --> 0:00:29.200 live in feels miles away. The artist and filmmaker Steve 0:00:29.320 --> 0:00:33.000 McQueen does not separate the world of beauty and the 0:00:33.000 --> 0:00:37.760 world of suffering in any of his work political oppression, slavery, 0:00:37.920 --> 0:00:43.040 sexual inequality. Step and I met in nineteen ninety nine 0:00:43.159 --> 0:00:46.640 when he won the Turner Prize for his radical video art, 0:00:47.000 --> 0:00:51.479 and we once had dinner together with President Obama. It 0:00:51.560 --> 0:00:55.600 was clear that the only person President Obama was interested 0:00:55.720 --> 0:00:58.720 in talking to with Steve McQueen, and he didn't want 0:00:58.760 --> 0:01:02.080 to share him with anyone else else. Now, a few 0:01:02.120 --> 0:01:05.760 years later, I finally have Steve McQueen all to myself, 0:01:06.240 --> 0:01:09.840 and being a generous person, we'll share him with you. 0:01:13.720 --> 0:01:17.240 Steve and I share a hero in Paul Robeson. We 0:01:17.360 --> 0:01:22.199 share the same concerns for equality and justice and food, 0:01:22.680 --> 0:01:25.559 and today we're going to talk all about that and more. 0:01:25.800 --> 0:01:29.000 Thank you, Steve, Thank you for inviting me. Tell me 0:01:29.040 --> 0:01:33.000 about growing up in London. You lived with your parents 0:01:33.400 --> 0:01:35.839 in West London and what did you eat? 0:01:36.160 --> 0:01:38.479 Yeah, we grew up. I grew up in the first 0:01:38.520 --> 0:01:42.480 leship of Bush, West London. My relationship with food really 0:01:42.520 --> 0:01:46.000 starts with the market. I was the kid who was 0:01:46.040 --> 0:01:49.440 carrying the bags behind their mother, you know, because basically 0:01:49.480 --> 0:01:52.120 I would have to go with her, because you know, 0:01:52.280 --> 0:01:53.880 I was the sort of vext to bad hands. 0:01:53.880 --> 0:01:55.360 A shopping back home. 0:01:56.280 --> 0:01:58.680 Food was a way of actually getting to know London 0:01:58.760 --> 0:02:00.880 because if someone in I said to my mother this, 0:02:01.200 --> 0:02:03.520 you know, you could get so and so sea based 0:02:03.520 --> 0:02:05.840 in this market for this amount of money, she will 0:02:05.880 --> 0:02:07.880 be there. So people used to talk about where can 0:02:07.920 --> 0:02:11.080 they get particular kind of food and fresh produce yew. 0:02:11.160 --> 0:02:12.240 Where was your mother born? 0:02:12.560 --> 0:02:13.240 My mother was. 0:02:13.160 --> 0:02:16.280 Born in Trinidad, but she grew up in in Grenada, 0:02:16.400 --> 0:02:18.160 and my father was born in Grenada. 0:02:18.440 --> 0:02:20.320 How old were they when they came to London. 0:02:20.720 --> 0:02:24.000 My mother was about fourteen fifteen, I think you're about 0:02:24.000 --> 0:02:25.919 fifteen when she came to London. I think in the 0:02:25.960 --> 0:02:28.360 early sixties, and my father was a little bit older. 0:02:28.360 --> 0:02:31.080 I think maybe it was about twenty one. 0:02:31.080 --> 0:02:33.120 I don't know. When I think he came early sixties too, 0:02:33.160 --> 0:02:34.320 but not not at the same time. 0:02:34.760 --> 0:02:37.280 And so do you think her mother had taken her 0:02:37.360 --> 0:02:40.799 to the market. As you say, the market does introduce 0:02:40.880 --> 0:02:43.240 us to a culture, that introduces us to a city. 0:02:43.680 --> 0:02:45.520 It's the first place I always go when I go 0:02:45.600 --> 0:02:48.800 to any town in any city in any country. But 0:02:48.880 --> 0:02:50.880 tell me more about the smells of the market and 0:02:50.919 --> 0:02:54.239 what it looked like for you and your mother's experience 0:02:54.280 --> 0:02:54.880 of the market. 0:02:55.320 --> 0:02:57.920 Well, in fact, what happened was that a lot of 0:02:58.440 --> 0:03:00.919 joity of people for coming from west in this headline, 0:03:01.160 --> 0:03:03.639 and they grew their own food, you know, and look 0:03:03.680 --> 0:03:06.239 after you know, the animals and so forth and whatnot. 0:03:06.240 --> 0:03:08.600 And fishing was a big part of the culture too, 0:03:08.600 --> 0:03:11.519 because obviously my mother lived on on the coast in 0:03:11.880 --> 0:03:13.760 a place called Stears and was a very big fishing 0:03:13.919 --> 0:03:16.720 spot there, you know, it's called a fishing village. Food 0:03:16.840 --> 0:03:20.000 was very much directly sort of to do with who 0:03:20.080 --> 0:03:22.920 they were. So when they came to London, of course 0:03:22.960 --> 0:03:26.200 looking for good food was very important. And you know, 0:03:26.240 --> 0:03:28.040 we used to go to all kinds of bloody markets 0:03:28.080 --> 0:03:28.840 all over London. 0:03:28.919 --> 0:03:30.679 I so, I said, I met up with it. 0:03:31.200 --> 0:03:33.359 I said, missed my football focus on a sacle because 0:03:33.360 --> 0:03:34.680 I had to go to the market with my mum. 0:03:35.440 --> 0:03:37.120 It was something which I remember. 0:03:37.200 --> 0:03:39.720 There was all different cultures, you know it was didn't 0:03:39.720 --> 0:03:42.280 You had the sort of you know, the Londoners and 0:03:42.280 --> 0:03:45.200 the white Londoners and the Indian, you're the Jewish. You 0:03:45.240 --> 0:03:47.640 had all kinds of people. It was fabulous. It was 0:03:47.680 --> 0:03:50.000 really kind of cool tone. 0:03:49.880 --> 0:03:52.120 When you would come home from the market. What would 0:03:52.160 --> 0:03:54.040 you eat? What would they cook from the market? 0:03:54.400 --> 0:03:59.040 Oh, if you get dashing, you know, spinage? You know again, 0:03:59.080 --> 0:04:01.880 you know you cook? I mean my my my favorite 0:04:02.560 --> 0:04:06.160 was like a nice stewed chicken. I'm not a special thing, 0:04:06.200 --> 0:04:09.920 I'm roty, just you know, Oh my god, what was it? 0:04:10.000 --> 0:04:14.080 A beautiful It's like a nice stew fish. And I 0:04:14.120 --> 0:04:14.560 just to love. 0:04:14.600 --> 0:04:16.080 What was this? This one thing I used to not 0:04:16.360 --> 0:04:18.760 very much was a vegetable? What was it? It was? 0:04:19.880 --> 0:04:20.760 I love? I love? 0:04:20.760 --> 0:04:25.039 It was all kinds of exotic stuff. I mean I 0:04:25.080 --> 0:04:27.679 say exotic because it was familiar to me. But my friends, 0:04:27.960 --> 0:04:29.600 my white first and what was that was this? 0:04:29.800 --> 0:04:31.000 Was this? Yeah? 0:04:31.279 --> 0:04:32.359 Who cooked in the house. 0:04:32.600 --> 0:04:34.520 My mother cooked, my father cooked. My father was a 0:04:34.520 --> 0:04:35.200 good cook too. 0:04:35.640 --> 0:04:39.159 He took pride in the Christmas ham. 0:04:39.560 --> 0:04:40.360 That was his job. 0:04:41.120 --> 0:04:43.720 There was a particular way of cooking that came from 0:04:43.720 --> 0:04:46.119 because his uncle was a butcher in the West Indies, 0:04:46.160 --> 0:04:47.600 So there was a particular way of cooking the ham. 0:04:47.600 --> 0:04:50.799 I can't even prescribe it now, but it's close, all 0:04:50.839 --> 0:04:52.679 into indented in all everywhere. 0:04:52.720 --> 0:04:58.440 It was almost like sort of a ror movie marblous. Yeah, 0:04:58.520 --> 0:04:59.760 great cooks, great cooks. 0:05:00.279 --> 0:05:02.480 Did you cook with them? Was it a family affair? 0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:03.760 Would you all cook together? 0:05:04.279 --> 0:05:06.240 I mean I loved being with my mother in the 0:05:06.320 --> 0:05:08.600 kitchen because somehow I love to help out. I love 0:05:08.640 --> 0:05:10.640 to sort of be I don't know, I love to 0:05:10.680 --> 0:05:13.320 love that. So I can't say that I'm a great cook, 0:05:13.760 --> 0:05:16.400 but I was a very good shoe chef, a bit 0:05:16.440 --> 0:05:17.760 of a neat and tidy person. 0:05:18.560 --> 0:05:21.440 Would they entertain? Would friends come over? Did was there 0:05:21.480 --> 0:05:22.360 that feeling. 0:05:22.279 --> 0:05:23.920 When people did come over? It was? 0:05:24.080 --> 0:05:26.599 It was a lot of family and and what I 0:05:26.600 --> 0:05:28.040 think most of the things I used to do when 0:05:28.040 --> 0:05:30.119 the people's come up with them would just listen because 0:05:30.120 --> 0:05:31.800 there was always boys that would come out that my 0:05:31.839 --> 0:05:34.000 parents will never talk to us about, of course, but 0:05:34.160 --> 0:05:37.080 always because adults will talk to adults, So therefore and 0:05:37.200 --> 0:05:39.880 find out about sort of how what was going on 0:05:40.000 --> 0:05:41.599 or when. 0:05:41.440 --> 0:05:46.680 You left this very comforting family meals where you were 0:05:46.680 --> 0:05:49.359 cooked for and you ate together. What was that like 0:05:49.400 --> 0:05:50.960 when you left home? Where did you live? 0:05:52.320 --> 0:05:55.000 I was actually nearing you, guys. Actually I was in Fulham. 0:05:55.040 --> 0:05:56.600 I was just around the corner from me. I was 0:05:56.640 --> 0:05:59.800 with his girlfriend and she was great. She was a 0:05:59.839 --> 0:06:01.320 very important girlfriend of mine. 0:06:01.560 --> 0:06:02.360 Your name was a Nuke. 0:06:02.520 --> 0:06:06.800 She was a Swiss. And then she had discovered this restaurant, 0:06:07.279 --> 0:06:11.720 this place called Malati, the Indonesian place and so, which 0:06:11.760 --> 0:06:14.479 was delicious. It was gorgeous. And that was my first 0:06:14.520 --> 0:06:15.080 restaurant and. 0:06:15.040 --> 0:06:16.480 She that was your first restaurant. 0:06:16.480 --> 0:06:18.479 I think that was one of my first restaurants. Yeah, 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:20.280 I was. I think I was about nineteen years old. 0:06:20.600 --> 0:06:23.760 And after that the restaurants become part of your social life. 0:06:23.760 --> 0:06:24.960 Did you love restaurants? 0:06:25.240 --> 0:06:25.920 Absolutely? 0:06:26.360 --> 0:06:28.640 I mean, what's great about I mean now, I suppose 0:06:28.640 --> 0:06:30.560 in London it wasn't so when when I was growing up, 0:06:30.560 --> 0:06:33.599 we didn't have that was the world, I think. And 0:06:33.800 --> 0:06:35.919 to be introduced to the world through food and of 0:06:35.960 --> 0:06:39.320 course good company, that's always the main ingredient for going 0:06:39.320 --> 0:06:42.159 to a restaurant. So that was wonderful and then we 0:06:42.240 --> 0:06:44.200 got to know. So we've got a lot of restaurants 0:06:44.240 --> 0:06:47.360 and so we got to know I remember during that time, 0:06:47.360 --> 0:06:49.960 miss early nineties, early early nineties. 0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:52.279 Yeah, and also in the East then too. 0:06:52.520 --> 0:06:56.240 Yeah, what about an arts school? Was that revelation? 0:06:56.800 --> 0:07:00.919 Yeah? I mean, you know, Canon Bitter Cheese, Ladiel and Baget. 0:07:02.120 --> 0:07:04.000 I mean that was that was kind of like interesting 0:07:04.040 --> 0:07:07.160 because again there was an addition to waste in this cheese. 0:07:07.360 --> 0:07:08.960 I mean no cheese. I was crappy cheese. 0:07:09.279 --> 0:07:11.520 You know, can imagine a sort of a big block 0:07:11.560 --> 0:07:14.080 of something which they called cheese. But getting to them 0:07:14.200 --> 0:07:17.880 cheese was interesting during my time at Foundation at Chelsea. 0:07:18.200 --> 0:07:21.280 I mean, it's a kind of interesting life change, isn't 0:07:21.320 --> 0:07:24.000 it between this going to the market with your mother 0:07:24.080 --> 0:07:26.480 and carrying the bag and coming home and cooking and 0:07:26.520 --> 0:07:29.880 then sitting and down and eating and then having independence 0:07:29.920 --> 0:07:34.239 and having to fend for yourself and discover life out there. 0:07:34.680 --> 0:07:37.040 Did you go home? Would you return home for the 0:07:37.080 --> 0:07:37.880 home cooked meal? 0:07:38.720 --> 0:07:40.440 Yes? I used to love going home for food. 0:07:40.560 --> 0:07:45.480 My goodness, I said, oh, oh, my goodness, I used 0:07:45.480 --> 0:07:48.320 to love it. It's just it's just a sort of yeah, 0:07:48.480 --> 0:07:51.360 it was difficult because at first it was how do 0:07:51.440 --> 0:07:51.840 I cook? 0:07:52.320 --> 0:07:54.520 What do I cook? I was on the phone to 0:07:54.560 --> 0:07:56.360 my mom, Mom, how do I do this? Mom? I 0:07:56.400 --> 0:07:57.480 do this? My Mom, I do that. 0:07:57.560 --> 0:08:00.720 So a lot of calls about me and sort of 0:08:00.840 --> 0:08:03.280 soups and things like that, and how do I season 0:08:03.320 --> 0:08:05.640 them because I can't. For granted, I said to be 0:08:05.680 --> 0:08:07.240 the shoe chep, but I wasn't really looking. It wasn't 0:08:07.280 --> 0:08:10.360 really studying. Yeah, so a lot of phone calls. 0:08:10.360 --> 0:08:23.400 Basically back round, Welcome back to River Cafe, Table four. 0:08:24.440 --> 0:08:27.200 In each episode, my guest reads a recipe they have 0:08:27.320 --> 0:08:33.720 chosen from one of our cookbooks. We chose spinach and peas, 0:08:33.920 --> 0:08:36.240 So would you like to go for it and tell 0:08:36.280 --> 0:08:38.160 the world how to make it? 0:08:38.280 --> 0:08:44.400 One kilogram fresh peas in their pods, extra virgin olive oil, 0:08:45.480 --> 0:08:51.600 one garlic cloth peel and diced, one dried red chili crumbled, 0:08:52.440 --> 0:08:57.640 one canogram of spinach, washed tough stalks, Removed. 0:09:00.240 --> 0:09:02.760 The piece and blanche them in plenty of boiling water. 0:09:03.280 --> 0:09:05.920 In Italy, no one ever cooks vegetables. 0:09:06.360 --> 0:09:08.280 Absolutely only past it. 0:09:08.320 --> 0:09:12.120 So rather than blanching these peas, boil them so that 0:09:12.320 --> 0:09:16.400 they almost melt together with spinach and the olive oil. 0:09:18.480 --> 0:09:23.560 Gorgeous. So now Steve, here we are and we're going 0:09:23.600 --> 0:09:26.920 to talk about the series that has just been on 0:09:27.160 --> 0:09:30.360 television that we've all watched and been so moved by. 0:09:30.480 --> 0:09:33.839 Small acts. You tell the story of a local restaurant 0:09:34.000 --> 0:09:37.560 constantly harassed by the police. Is that a memory or 0:09:37.559 --> 0:09:41.240 is that? Can you tell me about the restaurant, the 0:09:41.240 --> 0:09:43.080 politics and the series. 0:09:43.600 --> 0:09:43.960 Sure? 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:47.839 Well, the Mangrove Restaurant was a restaurant run by Frank 0:09:47.960 --> 0:09:52.040 Krischlow in Lambergrove on All Saints Road, and he opened 0:09:52.040 --> 0:09:55.000 a restaurant in nineteen sixty eight and it was a 0:09:55.080 --> 0:09:57.640 sort of home away from home restaurant. You can imagine, 0:09:57.920 --> 0:10:00.720 as I said before, other people on the sort of 0:10:01.480 --> 0:10:04.520 the taste of home and had a vibrancy of having 0:10:04.640 --> 0:10:06.440 sort of like many people wanted to sort of come 0:10:06.480 --> 0:10:09.520 to a place to eat and to sort of commune 0:10:09.520 --> 0:10:12.520 with each other. So it was a place of refuge 0:10:12.520 --> 0:10:14.880 in it in a way. You know, the vibe, the 0:10:14.920 --> 0:10:16.400 vibes that came out of there, and it was just 0:10:16.440 --> 0:10:19.120 one of those places which became very infectious if people 0:10:19.160 --> 0:10:20.800 wanted to go. It was it was it was something 0:10:20.800 --> 0:10:23.160 which was which was which was on the scene and 0:10:23.600 --> 0:10:28.280 unfortunately the police and the authorities that be obviously didn't 0:10:28.400 --> 0:10:31.640 like what was happening at this place because again it 0:10:31.679 --> 0:10:34.680 was you know, it was people from the Western Ears, 0:10:34.679 --> 0:10:37.960 it was working class people, it was the thinkers, it 0:10:38.040 --> 0:10:41.240 was sort of activists were coming there and also the 0:10:41.240 --> 0:10:41.800 whole eploy. 0:10:42.480 --> 0:10:43.599 So all these people. 0:10:43.320 --> 0:10:48.400 Coming to this spot and talking over food, having ideas, 0:10:49.160 --> 0:10:51.480 and obviously that was something which the authorities didn't like, 0:10:51.520 --> 0:10:54.480 and therefore they tried to disrupt disrupted as much as 0:10:54.480 --> 0:10:56.679 they could. You know, it was a case of the 0:10:57.120 --> 0:11:00.360 people not wanting certain ideas having a foothold in UK, 0:11:00.480 --> 0:11:02.480 and they thought that the Mangrove was a place where 0:11:02.679 --> 0:11:04.520 those ideas could sort of take root. 0:11:04.880 --> 0:11:08.720 There's something about doing that kind of discussion as well 0:11:08.880 --> 0:11:12.000 over food. And one of the things that I see 0:11:12.040 --> 0:11:15.240 in the restaurant is that somehow being out of your house, 0:11:15.400 --> 0:11:19.439 being away from your domestic life, being looked after, gives 0:11:19.480 --> 0:11:22.560 you the chance to really focus on a conversation. Do 0:11:22.640 --> 0:11:24.599 you find that in a restaurant. 0:11:24.240 --> 0:11:28.880 Absolutely absolutely, And there's a sense of, I don't know 0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:33.480 what is it purpose, you're there, you're present, there's another 0:11:33.520 --> 0:11:36.960 person there and present, but also actually just a listen. 0:11:37.679 --> 0:11:38.640 It's just a case. 0:11:38.440 --> 0:11:42.679 Of being in an environment where you are you know, 0:11:42.840 --> 0:11:46.120 you feel comfortable in order to say things and listen. 0:11:46.720 --> 0:11:50.560 And also I've talked to various people in business and 0:11:50.600 --> 0:11:54.400 in film and creating movies or making deals. I mean 0:11:54.440 --> 0:11:57.240 when I always quote is Michael Caine who said that 0:11:57.280 --> 0:11:59.720 he never did a deal for a movie in America 0:11:59.800 --> 0:12:03.280 that didn't take place in a restaurant. And he said 0:12:03.520 --> 0:12:06.360 that was very Hollywood. Do you work in restaurants? Do 0:12:06.400 --> 0:12:08.400 you'd like to meet people that you're going to work 0:12:08.440 --> 0:12:09.720 with in a restaurant? 0:12:09.800 --> 0:12:12.600 First, I love it. That doesn't happen often. 0:12:13.800 --> 0:12:16.520 I mean, I think it's sort of it's a classy 0:12:16.559 --> 0:12:18.560 way to do anything, isn't it. And also I love 0:12:18.559 --> 0:12:21.120 it because growing up in the art world. What was 0:12:21.320 --> 0:12:23.319 wonderful about growing up in the art world is that 0:12:23.760 --> 0:12:27.599 artists never paid for dinners, never because. 0:12:27.320 --> 0:12:29.400 You're the artist. And it was amazing. 0:12:29.720 --> 0:12:32.199 In fact, I think that's how I grew up in 0:12:32.559 --> 0:12:36.000 food in an interesting way. It was through the art world. 0:12:36.240 --> 0:12:38.520 It's completely different to the film world. I mean, you 0:12:38.520 --> 0:12:40.600 know the fact that you you know, you might get 0:12:40.679 --> 0:12:42.280 crappy sang which you're you're you're lucky. 0:12:42.880 --> 0:12:44.960 But in the art world, it was always the best wines. 0:12:45.000 --> 0:12:46.160 It was always the best. 0:12:45.880 --> 0:12:48.200 Food, you know, if it was an opening or even 0:12:48.280 --> 0:12:50.199 a meeting, it was always the best restaurant. 0:12:50.280 --> 0:12:52.320 And that was a huge education. Absolutely. 0:12:52.600 --> 0:12:56.400 I was thinking about making movies and the movies you've made, 0:12:56.400 --> 0:12:59.640 and of course here we are talking about food and 0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:04.000 eat and the joy of being taken care of through food. 0:13:04.480 --> 0:13:07.280 And then I think of the movie that you know, 0:13:07.480 --> 0:13:10.600 was so earth shattering, which was Hunger, And so we're 0:13:10.600 --> 0:13:13.640 talking about a movie called Hunger and the state of 0:13:13.720 --> 0:13:18.920 hunger and somebody put their principles and politics above comfort 0:13:19.040 --> 0:13:23.199 and as a political act actually starved themselves. So what 0:13:23.280 --> 0:13:26.240 was it like making a movie that was the absence 0:13:26.280 --> 0:13:28.120 of food as a political statement? 0:13:28.640 --> 0:13:34.160 He I mean, for me, it was again its food 0:13:34.200 --> 0:13:34.720 is interesting thing. 0:13:36.640 --> 0:13:39.040 I related to that in a way, that of being 0:13:39.040 --> 0:13:42.280 a child in the way that you know, the often 0:13:42.360 --> 0:13:46.400 don'tly power a child has is frailing to eat his 0:13:46.720 --> 0:13:51.679 or her mother saying you're not leaving the table until 0:13:51.679 --> 0:13:54.800 you finish that plate, and the child sort of you know, 0:13:54.880 --> 0:13:59.360 refusing to eat, and then you're sent off the bed, 0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:02.640 you know. And it's interesting because you know what the 0:14:02.679 --> 0:14:04.679 clothes you wear that as a as a child of 0:14:04.720 --> 0:14:06.440 a certain age, what time you go to bed, what 0:14:06.480 --> 0:14:08.959 food you eat is chosen by your parents, and the 0:14:08.960 --> 0:14:11.800 whole idea that this child, the power this child has 0:14:12.160 --> 0:14:14.960 is to refrain to eat. That was my relationship in 0:14:15.000 --> 0:14:17.920 some ways to Bobby Sands and hunger strike, that the 0:14:17.920 --> 0:14:20.000 power that person had was to refrain to eat. 0:14:20.280 --> 0:14:21.160 Ever since it was a child. 0:14:21.160 --> 0:14:23.320 I remembered asking my mom when I saw this image 0:14:23.320 --> 0:14:25.480 of Bobby's Sands on on television with a number benderneath 0:14:25.600 --> 0:14:28.400 his image, and asking my mother, what's what's what is that? 0:14:28.400 --> 0:14:29.880 How old this person is? Because no, that how many 0:14:29.920 --> 0:14:32.040 days this person has been a hunger strike. So there 0:14:32.080 --> 0:14:35.360 was an immediate relationship with the story and it was yeah, 0:14:35.520 --> 0:14:38.000 it was It was difficult, but I think Michael Fans 0:14:38.040 --> 0:14:40.360 been there, you know why cass as Bobby Sands was 0:14:40.400 --> 0:14:42.120 tremendous and that was a bond up you know we 0:14:42.200 --> 0:14:44.880 have to this day. It was a real kind of 0:14:45.560 --> 0:14:47.600 a labor of love and not what. 0:14:47.640 --> 0:14:50.520 Other food scenes in your movies In twelve Years a Slave, 0:14:50.640 --> 0:14:52.760 there's a scene, isn't there at the dinner table. 0:14:53.400 --> 0:14:55.440 I seem to remember, Yeah, there's lots of I think 0:14:55.440 --> 0:14:56.680 there's lots of food in my films. 0:14:56.680 --> 0:14:58.400 I mean you can see after that is shame the 0:14:58.440 --> 0:15:01.640 two characters Brandon any sort of a possible girlfriend or 0:15:01.640 --> 0:15:04.160 at this dinner table, and this waiter annoying way to 0:15:04.360 --> 0:15:07.280 comes in every five seconds to interrupt them. I remember 0:15:07.360 --> 0:15:09.360 that from having lots of dinners in New York and 0:15:09.640 --> 0:15:11.720 every five seconds and what becomes in the middle of 0:15:11.720 --> 0:15:12.840 something was getting bigger. 0:15:13.120 --> 0:15:15.400 You know how conversations are. They had to get to 0:15:15.440 --> 0:15:15.920 that point. 0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:18.480 You know, it's always it was commercial buddy breaks every 0:15:18.480 --> 0:15:20.520 five seconds. You have to start from scratch every five minutes. 0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:23.400 So it didn't make for a good eating experience. So 0:15:24.000 --> 0:15:25.560 I put that in the movie. 0:15:25.360 --> 0:15:26.480 What do you eat on a film? 0:15:26.520 --> 0:15:26.560 So? 0:15:27.080 --> 0:15:29.640 Do you hate stopping for lunch when you're filming? 0:15:30.040 --> 0:15:30.120 No? 0:15:30.200 --> 0:15:32.640 I think it's fantastic. I mean, what was so wonderful 0:15:32.840 --> 0:15:36.800 when I started filmmaking and Hunger and Sharing twelve is 0:15:37.040 --> 0:15:39.000 it's like all the actors and all the crew will 0:15:39.000 --> 0:15:42.200 eat together. We the people in their body trailers in 0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:46.600 that crap, everyone lead together. There's something about communal eating 0:15:46.640 --> 0:15:54.080 and it's about weed. It's such a unifying thing to see, 0:15:54.520 --> 0:15:57.960 you know, the hear and makeup and the camera department, 0:15:58.080 --> 0:16:00.000 and tubing up for food and sitting at the table 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:02.600 together and talking about the film or talking about things. 0:16:03.200 --> 0:16:04.280 There's a camaraderie. 0:16:06.200 --> 0:16:08.800 It's only time often when you're sort of on set 0:16:08.840 --> 0:16:11.960 together that you had that sort of times, you know, 0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:16.080 when you're sitting together eating and it's fun. 0:16:16.480 --> 0:16:18.640 It's fun. I love it. 0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:27.520 Year three is an exhibition that was at the Tate 0:16:28.320 --> 0:16:30.840 and I went to see it three times because every 0:16:30.880 --> 0:16:34.400 time I went back, I saw something, something different in 0:16:34.480 --> 0:16:37.880 the expression of a child of a teacher. It really 0:16:37.960 --> 0:16:40.880 told the story of the world we live in through 0:16:40.920 --> 0:16:43.560 these photographs. And one of the issues that I think 0:16:43.680 --> 0:16:48.200 is very important is that when we had the lockdown 0:16:48.240 --> 0:16:50.840 a year ago, one of the things we learned that 0:16:50.880 --> 0:16:54.800 when children were denied school, they were also denied food, 0:16:55.360 --> 0:16:58.280 and they were denied food at lunchtime, which might have 0:16:58.360 --> 0:17:03.000 been their only of the day. And the idea that 0:17:03.000 --> 0:17:06.880 we have a society that children depend on having their 0:17:06.880 --> 0:17:09.320 food away from the home because of the poverty in 0:17:09.359 --> 0:17:13.680 the home is appalling and shocking and distressing everything else. 0:17:14.000 --> 0:17:16.520 Yes, absolutely, I mean I had school, did this, which 0:17:16.520 --> 0:17:19.520 I paid for by my mother. That's why even today. 0:17:19.560 --> 0:17:24.240 I like hot meals, love hot lunches, I mean, and 0:17:24.280 --> 0:17:25.000 they were vital. 0:17:25.320 --> 0:17:26.560 They were vital there were children. 0:17:26.680 --> 0:17:29.880 I know for a fact that that was the main 0:17:30.000 --> 0:17:32.840 meal of the day, if not the only meal of 0:17:32.880 --> 0:17:35.359 the day. And this is with our bottle of milk 0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:37.560 in the morning before missus snatcher took it away from us. 0:17:37.960 --> 0:17:40.639 Yeah. Yeah, I love school meals in that way. Also, 0:17:40.800 --> 0:17:44.280 just because we are such a good laugh in the canteen, 0:17:44.440 --> 0:17:48.199 you know, I associate food in school with good times 0:17:48.240 --> 0:17:50.760 and I can even remember the smell of it, the 0:17:50.800 --> 0:17:55.639 canteen and the noise and the cutlery banging together, and 0:17:55.680 --> 0:17:58.600 it's so important. You know. Also people have to sort 0:17:58.640 --> 0:17:59.960 of really tip. 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:02.439 They had to Marcus Rashford and what he did in 0:18:02.480 --> 0:18:04.320 the sense of, you know, getting the government to sort 0:18:04.359 --> 0:18:08.119 of stand down twice about the school mill because you 0:18:08.119 --> 0:18:09.920 know it can This is, you know, if we can't 0:18:09.920 --> 0:18:12.439 look after people we can't afford to eat, then I 0:18:12.440 --> 0:18:14.840 don't know who we are as human beings. That it 0:18:14.920 --> 0:18:16.800 took a footballer to do that is kind of a bit, 0:18:16.960 --> 0:18:19.040 you know. There you go, Everyone has got to step 0:18:19.119 --> 0:18:20.800 up in your own way. I suppose if people aren't 0:18:20.840 --> 0:18:23.400 doing their job properly, that meaning the government. And also 0:18:23.400 --> 0:18:25.640 don't forget this again. It's just one of those things 0:18:25.680 --> 0:18:28.000 I feel that you know, everyone is unfortunately not brought 0:18:28.000 --> 0:18:31.600 into this world equally. But if you just give someone 0:18:31.640 --> 0:18:34.240 the possibility a little bit of a shaft of life, 0:18:34.640 --> 0:18:37.120 one doesn't know where that might lead them to. So, yeah, 0:18:37.280 --> 0:18:39.280 the fact that people actually have a meal in the stomach, 0:18:39.920 --> 0:18:45.200 you know in Britain, Yeah, it's more than important. One 0:18:45.200 --> 0:18:47.280 thing I was very shocked by when I was shooting 0:18:47.320 --> 0:18:50.840 in Chicago, shooting widows was how I didn't see a 0:18:50.880 --> 0:18:55.280 grocery store in a black neighborhood. I didn't see any 0:18:55.440 --> 0:18:58.800 greens in a black neighbor you know, there wasn't a 0:18:58.880 --> 0:19:01.720 green grocer's, but there was always some sort of fast 0:19:01.720 --> 0:19:03.000 food place where people eat. 0:19:03.040 --> 0:19:05.919 So people are losing this sort of heritage of food. 0:19:06.280 --> 0:19:09.600 People are not aware of food and nourishment and possibilities 0:19:09.600 --> 0:19:10.160 within food. 0:19:10.200 --> 0:19:12.840 And food is politics in a way. 0:19:12.920 --> 0:19:16.800 It reverts back to what we were talking about right 0:19:16.840 --> 0:19:20.280 at the beginning of our conversation. It starts with like 0:19:20.960 --> 0:19:23.919 in a way markets because markets, a lot of markets 0:19:23.920 --> 0:19:25.840 are on the threat, a lot of markets have closed. 0:19:26.640 --> 0:19:29.680 So this sense of community, sense of promarderate, a sense 0:19:29.720 --> 0:19:33.520 of sort of love of food and love of each 0:19:33.560 --> 0:19:36.480