1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,720 Speaker 1: Welcome to River Cafe, Table four, a production of iHeartRadio 2 00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:11,640 Speaker 1: and Adami Studios. 3 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 2: Sitting here in the River Cafe on a Sunday Monday morning, 4 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:19,360 Speaker 2: with chefs in the kitchen making ravioli, with hiroles and 5 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:23,040 Speaker 2: waiters laying tables in the garden, the uncertain world we 6 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 2: live in feels miles away. The artist and filmmaker Steve 7 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 2: McQueen does not separate the world of beauty and the 8 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:37,760 Speaker 2: world of suffering in any of his work political oppression, slavery, 9 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 2: sexual inequality. Step and I met in nineteen ninety nine 10 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 2: when he won the Turner Prize for his radical video art, 11 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:51,479 Speaker 2: and we once had dinner together with President Obama. It 12 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 2: was clear that the only person President Obama was interested 13 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:58,720 Speaker 2: in talking to with Steve McQueen, and he didn't want 14 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:02,080 Speaker 2: to share him with anyone else else. Now, a few 15 00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:05,760 Speaker 2: years later, I finally have Steve McQueen all to myself, 16 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:09,840 Speaker 2: and being a generous person, we'll share him with you. 17 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:17,240 Speaker 2: Steve and I share a hero in Paul Robeson. We 18 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:22,199 Speaker 2: share the same concerns for equality and justice and food, 19 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:25,559 Speaker 2: and today we're going to talk all about that and more. 20 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:29,000 Speaker 2: Thank you, Steve, Thank you for inviting me. Tell me 21 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:33,000 Speaker 2: about growing up in London. You lived with your parents 22 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:35,839 Speaker 2: in West London and what did you eat? 23 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:38,479 Speaker 3: Yeah, we grew up. I grew up in the first 24 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:42,480 Speaker 3: leship of Bush, West London. My relationship with food really 25 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 3: starts with the market. I was the kid who was 26 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 3: carrying the bags behind their mother, you know, because basically 27 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 3: I would have to go with her, because you know, 28 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 3: I was the sort of vext to bad hands. 29 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 4: A shopping back home. 30 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 3: Food was a way of actually getting to know London 31 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:00,880 Speaker 3: because if someone in I said to my mother this, 32 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 3: you know, you could get so and so sea based 33 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 3: in this market for this amount of money, she will 34 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 3: be there. So people used to talk about where can 35 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:11,080 Speaker 3: they get particular kind of food and fresh produce yew. 36 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:12,240 Speaker 2: Where was your mother born? 37 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:13,240 Speaker 4: My mother was. 38 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 3: Born in Trinidad, but she grew up in in Grenada, 39 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 3: and my father was born in Grenada. 40 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 2: How old were they when they came to London. 41 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 3: My mother was about fourteen fifteen, I think you're about 42 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:25,919 Speaker 3: fifteen when she came to London. I think in the 43 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:28,360 Speaker 3: early sixties, and my father was a little bit older. 44 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:31,080 Speaker 3: I think maybe it was about twenty one. 45 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 4: I don't know. When I think he came early sixties too, 46 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 4: but not not at the same time. 47 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 2: And so do you think her mother had taken her 48 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:40,799 Speaker 2: to the market. As you say, the market does introduce 49 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:43,240 Speaker 2: us to a culture, that introduces us to a city. 50 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:45,520 Speaker 2: It's the first place I always go when I go 51 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:48,800 Speaker 2: to any town in any city in any country. But 52 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:50,880 Speaker 2: tell me more about the smells of the market and 53 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:54,239 Speaker 2: what it looked like for you and your mother's experience 54 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 2: of the market. 55 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:57,920 Speaker 3: Well, in fact, what happened was that a lot of 56 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:00,919 Speaker 3: joity of people for coming from west in this headline, 57 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:03,639 Speaker 3: and they grew their own food, you know, and look 58 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:06,239 Speaker 3: after you know, the animals and so forth and whatnot. 59 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 3: And fishing was a big part of the culture too, 60 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:11,519 Speaker 3: because obviously my mother lived on on the coast in 61 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 3: a place called Stears and was a very big fishing 62 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 3: spot there, you know, it's called a fishing village. Food 63 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 3: was very much directly sort of to do with who 64 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:22,920 Speaker 3: they were. So when they came to London, of course 65 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 3: looking for good food was very important. And you know, 66 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 3: we used to go to all kinds of bloody markets 67 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 3: all over London. 68 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:30,679 Speaker 4: I so, I said, I met up with it. 69 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:33,359 Speaker 3: I said, missed my football focus on a sacle because 70 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:34,680 Speaker 3: I had to go to the market with my mum. 71 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 4: It was something which I remember. 72 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 3: There was all different cultures, you know it was didn't 73 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:42,280 Speaker 3: You had the sort of you know, the Londoners and 74 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 3: the white Londoners and the Indian, you're the Jewish. You 75 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 3: had all kinds of people. It was fabulous. It was 76 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 3: really kind of cool tone. 77 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 2: When you would come home from the market. What would 78 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 2: you eat? What would they cook from the market? 79 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 3: Oh, if you get dashing, you know, spinage? You know again, 80 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 3: you know you cook? I mean my my my favorite 81 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 3: was like a nice stewed chicken. I'm not a special thing, 82 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 3: I'm roty, just you know, Oh my god, what was it? 83 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 3: A beautiful It's like a nice stew fish. And I 84 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 3: just to love. 85 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 4: What was this? This one thing I used to not 86 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 4: very much was a vegetable? What was it? It was? 87 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 4: I love? I love? 88 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:25,039 Speaker 3: It was all kinds of exotic stuff. I mean I 89 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:27,679 Speaker 3: say exotic because it was familiar to me. But my friends, 90 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:29,600 Speaker 3: my white first and what was that was this? 91 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 4: Was this? Yeah? 92 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:32,359 Speaker 2: Who cooked in the house. 93 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 4: My mother cooked, my father cooked. My father was a 94 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:35,200 Speaker 4: good cook too. 95 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:39,159 Speaker 3: He took pride in the Christmas ham. 96 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:40,360 Speaker 4: That was his job. 97 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:43,720 Speaker 3: There was a particular way of cooking that came from 98 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:46,119 Speaker 3: because his uncle was a butcher in the West Indies, 99 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:47,600 Speaker 3: So there was a particular way of cooking the ham. 100 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:50,799 Speaker 3: I can't even prescribe it now, but it's close, all 101 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:52,679 Speaker 3: into indented in all everywhere. 102 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 4: It was almost like sort of a ror movie marblous. Yeah, 103 00:04:58,520 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 4: great cooks, great cooks. 104 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:02,480 Speaker 2: Did you cook with them? Was it a family affair? 105 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:03,760 Speaker 2: Would you all cook together? 106 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 3: I mean I loved being with my mother in the 107 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:08,600 Speaker 3: kitchen because somehow I love to help out. I love 108 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 3: to sort of be I don't know, I love to 109 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 3: love that. So I can't say that I'm a great cook, 110 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:16,400 Speaker 3: but I was a very good shoe chef, a bit 111 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 3: of a neat and tidy person. 112 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 2: Would they entertain? Would friends come over? Did was there 113 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:22,360 Speaker 2: that feeling. 114 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:23,920 Speaker 4: When people did come over? It was? 115 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:26,599 Speaker 3: It was a lot of family and and what I 116 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:28,040 Speaker 3: think most of the things I used to do when 117 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:30,119 Speaker 3: the people's come up with them would just listen because 118 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:31,800 Speaker 3: there was always boys that would come out that my 119 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 3: parents will never talk to us about, of course, but 120 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 3: always because adults will talk to adults, So therefore and 121 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 3: find out about sort of how what was going on 122 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:41,599 Speaker 3: or when. 123 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 2: You left this very comforting family meals where you were 124 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:49,359 Speaker 2: cooked for and you ate together. What was that like 125 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 2: when you left home? Where did you live? 126 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 3: I was actually nearing you, guys. Actually I was in Fulham. 127 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:56,600 Speaker 3: I was just around the corner from me. I was 128 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 3: with his girlfriend and she was great. She was a 129 00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 3: very important girlfriend of mine. 130 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:02,360 Speaker 4: Your name was a Nuke. 131 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 3: She was a Swiss. And then she had discovered this restaurant, 132 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:11,720 Speaker 3: this place called Malati, the Indonesian place and so, which 133 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:14,479 Speaker 3: was delicious. It was gorgeous. And that was my first 134 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 3: restaurant and. 135 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:16,480 Speaker 2: She that was your first restaurant. 136 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:18,479 Speaker 4: I think that was one of my first restaurants. Yeah, 137 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:20,280 Speaker 4: I was. I think I was about nineteen years old. 138 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 2: And after that the restaurants become part of your social life. 139 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 2: Did you love restaurants? 140 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:25,920 Speaker 4: Absolutely? 141 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 3: I mean, what's great about I mean now, I suppose 142 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 3: in London it wasn't so when when I was growing up, 143 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:33,599 Speaker 3: we didn't have that was the world, I think. And 144 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:35,919 Speaker 3: to be introduced to the world through food and of 145 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 3: course good company, that's always the main ingredient for going 146 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:42,159 Speaker 3: to a restaurant. So that was wonderful and then we 147 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 3: got to know. So we've got a lot of restaurants 148 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:47,360 Speaker 3: and so we got to know I remember during that time, 149 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 3: miss early nineties, early early nineties. 150 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:52,279 Speaker 4: Yeah, and also in the East then too. 151 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:56,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, what about an arts school? Was that revelation? 152 00:06:56,800 --> 00:07:00,919 Speaker 4: Yeah? I mean, you know, Canon Bitter Cheese, Ladiel and Baget. 153 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 3: I mean that was that was kind of like interesting 154 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:07,160 Speaker 3: because again there was an addition to waste in this cheese. 155 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 4: I mean no cheese. I was crappy cheese. 156 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 3: You know, can imagine a sort of a big block 157 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 3: of something which they called cheese. But getting to them 158 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 3: cheese was interesting during my time at Foundation at Chelsea. 159 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 2: I mean, it's a kind of interesting life change, isn't 160 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 2: it between this going to the market with your mother 161 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 2: and carrying the bag and coming home and cooking and 162 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 2: then sitting and down and eating and then having independence 163 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:34,239 Speaker 2: and having to fend for yourself and discover life out there. 164 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 2: Did you go home? Would you return home for the 165 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:37,880 Speaker 2: home cooked meal? 166 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 4: Yes? I used to love going home for food. 167 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 3: My goodness, I said, oh, oh, my goodness, I used 168 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 3: to love it. It's just it's just a sort of yeah, 169 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 3: it was difficult because at first it was how do 170 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 3: I cook? 171 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 4: What do I cook? I was on the phone to 172 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 4: my mom, Mom, how do I do this? Mom? I 173 00:07:56,400 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 4: do this? My Mom, I do that. 174 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 3: So a lot of calls about me and sort of 175 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 3: soups and things like that, and how do I season 176 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 3: them because I can't. For granted, I said to be 177 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:07,240 Speaker 3: the shoe chep, but I wasn't really looking. It wasn't 178 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 3: really studying. Yeah, so a lot of phone calls. 179 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 5: Basically back round, Welcome back to River Cafe, Table four. 180 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 2: In each episode, my guest reads a recipe they have 181 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:33,720 Speaker 2: chosen from one of our cookbooks. We chose spinach and peas, 182 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 2: So would you like to go for it and tell 183 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 2: the world how to make it? 184 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 3: One kilogram fresh peas in their pods, extra virgin olive oil, 185 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 3: one garlic cloth peel and diced, one dried red chili crumbled, 186 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 3: one canogram of spinach, washed tough stalks, Removed. 187 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 2: The piece and blanche them in plenty of boiling water. 188 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 2: In Italy, no one ever cooks vegetables. 189 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 4: Absolutely only past it. 190 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 3: So rather than blanching these peas, boil them so that 191 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 3: they almost melt together with spinach and the olive oil. 192 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:23,560 Speaker 2: Gorgeous. So now Steve, here we are and we're going 193 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 2: to talk about the series that has just been on 194 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 2: television that we've all watched and been so moved by. 195 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:33,839 Speaker 2: Small acts. You tell the story of a local restaurant 196 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:37,560 Speaker 2: constantly harassed by the police. Is that a memory or 197 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:41,240 Speaker 2: is that? Can you tell me about the restaurant, the 198 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:43,080 Speaker 2: politics and the series. 199 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:43,960 Speaker 4: Sure? 200 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:47,839 Speaker 3: Well, the Mangrove Restaurant was a restaurant run by Frank 201 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 3: Krischlow in Lambergrove on All Saints Road, and he opened 202 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:55,000 Speaker 3: a restaurant in nineteen sixty eight and it was a 203 00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 3: sort of home away from home restaurant. You can imagine, 204 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 3: as I said before, other people on the sort of 205 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 3: the taste of home and had a vibrancy of having 206 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:06,440 Speaker 3: sort of like many people wanted to sort of come 207 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 3: to a place to eat and to sort of commune 208 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 3: with each other. So it was a place of refuge 209 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 3: in it in a way. You know, the vibe, the 210 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 3: vibes that came out of there, and it was just 211 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:19,120 Speaker 3: one of those places which became very infectious if people 212 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:20,800 Speaker 3: wanted to go. It was it was it was something 213 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:23,160 Speaker 3: which was which was which was on the scene and 214 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 3: unfortunately the police and the authorities that be obviously didn't 215 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 3: like what was happening at this place because again it 216 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:34,680 Speaker 3: was you know, it was people from the Western Ears, 217 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:37,960 Speaker 3: it was working class people, it was the thinkers, it 218 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:41,240 Speaker 3: was sort of activists were coming there and also the 219 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 3: whole eploy. 220 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:43,599 Speaker 4: So all these people. 221 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 3: Coming to this spot and talking over food, having ideas, 222 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 3: and obviously that was something which the authorities didn't like, 223 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:54,480 Speaker 3: and therefore they tried to disrupt disrupted as much as 224 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:56,679 Speaker 3: they could. You know, it was a case of the 225 00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 3: people not wanting certain ideas having a foothold in UK, 226 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:02,480 Speaker 3: and they thought that the Mangrove was a place where 227 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 3: those ideas could sort of take root. 228 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:08,720 Speaker 2: There's something about doing that kind of discussion as well 229 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 2: over food. And one of the things that I see 230 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 2: in the restaurant is that somehow being out of your house, 231 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:19,439 Speaker 2: being away from your domestic life, being looked after, gives 232 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:22,560 Speaker 2: you the chance to really focus on a conversation. Do 233 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:24,599 Speaker 2: you find that in a restaurant. 234 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 3: Absolutely absolutely, And there's a sense of, I don't know 235 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:33,480 Speaker 3: what is it purpose, you're there, you're present, there's another 236 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:36,960 Speaker 3: person there and present, but also actually just a listen. 237 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 4: It's just a case. 238 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:42,679 Speaker 3: Of being in an environment where you are you know, 239 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 3: you feel comfortable in order to say things and listen. 240 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:50,560 Speaker 2: And also I've talked to various people in business and 241 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:54,400 Speaker 2: in film and creating movies or making deals. I mean 242 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 2: when I always quote is Michael Caine who said that 243 00:11:57,280 --> 00:11:59,720 Speaker 2: he never did a deal for a movie in America 244 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:03,280 Speaker 2: that didn't take place in a restaurant. And he said 245 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 2: that was very Hollywood. Do you work in restaurants? Do 246 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 2: you'd like to meet people that you're going to work 247 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:09,720 Speaker 2: with in a restaurant? 248 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 4: First, I love it. That doesn't happen often. 249 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 3: I mean, I think it's sort of it's a classy 250 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:18,560 Speaker 3: way to do anything, isn't it. And also I love 251 00:12:18,559 --> 00:12:21,120 Speaker 3: it because growing up in the art world. What was 252 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:23,319 Speaker 3: wonderful about growing up in the art world is that 253 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:27,599 Speaker 3: artists never paid for dinners, never because. 254 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 4: You're the artist. And it was amazing. 255 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:32,199 Speaker 3: In fact, I think that's how I grew up in 256 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 3: food in an interesting way. It was through the art world. 257 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 3: It's completely different to the film world. I mean, you 258 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:40,600 Speaker 3: know the fact that you you know, you might get 259 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 3: crappy sang which you're you're you're lucky. 260 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:44,960 Speaker 4: But in the art world, it was always the best wines. 261 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 4: It was always the best. 262 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:48,200 Speaker 3: Food, you know, if it was an opening or even 263 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:50,199 Speaker 3: a meeting, it was always the best restaurant. 264 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:52,320 Speaker 4: And that was a huge education. Absolutely. 265 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 2: I was thinking about making movies and the movies you've made, 266 00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 2: and of course here we are talking about food and 267 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:04,000 Speaker 2: eat and the joy of being taken care of through food. 268 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 2: And then I think of the movie that you know, 269 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:10,600 Speaker 2: was so earth shattering, which was Hunger, And so we're 270 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 2: talking about a movie called Hunger and the state of 271 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 2: hunger and somebody put their principles and politics above comfort 272 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:23,199 Speaker 2: and as a political act actually starved themselves. So what 273 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:26,240 Speaker 2: was it like making a movie that was the absence 274 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:28,120 Speaker 2: of food as a political statement? 275 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 4: He I mean, for me, it was again its food 276 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:34,720 Speaker 4: is interesting thing. 277 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 3: I related to that in a way, that of being 278 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:42,280 Speaker 3: a child in the way that you know, the often 279 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:46,400 Speaker 3: don'tly power a child has is frailing to eat his 280 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:51,679 Speaker 3: or her mother saying you're not leaving the table until 281 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 3: you finish that plate, and the child sort of you know, 282 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 3: refusing to eat, and then you're sent off the bed, 283 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:02,640 Speaker 3: you know. And it's interesting because you know what the 284 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:04,679 Speaker 3: clothes you wear that as a as a child of 285 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:06,440 Speaker 3: a certain age, what time you go to bed, what 286 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:08,959 Speaker 3: food you eat is chosen by your parents, and the 287 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:11,800 Speaker 3: whole idea that this child, the power this child has 288 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:14,960 Speaker 3: is to refrain to eat. That was my relationship in 289 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:17,920 Speaker 3: some ways to Bobby Sands and hunger strike, that the 290 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:20,000 Speaker 3: power that person had was to refrain to eat. 291 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 4: Ever since it was a child. 292 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:23,320 Speaker 3: I remembered asking my mom when I saw this image 293 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:25,480 Speaker 3: of Bobby's Sands on on television with a number benderneath 294 00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:28,400 Speaker 3: his image, and asking my mother, what's what's what is that? 295 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:29,880 Speaker 3: How old this person is? Because no, that how many 296 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 3: days this person has been a hunger strike. So there 297 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:35,360 Speaker 3: was an immediate relationship with the story and it was yeah, 298 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:38,000 Speaker 3: it was It was difficult, but I think Michael Fans 299 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:40,360 Speaker 3: been there, you know why cass as Bobby Sands was 300 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 3: tremendous and that was a bond up you know we 301 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 3: have to this day. It was a real kind of 302 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 3: a labor of love and not what. 303 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:50,520 Speaker 2: Other food scenes in your movies In twelve Years a Slave, 304 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:52,760 Speaker 2: there's a scene, isn't there at the dinner table. 305 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:55,440 Speaker 4: I seem to remember, Yeah, there's lots of I think 306 00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 4: there's lots of food in my films. 307 00:14:56,680 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 3: I mean you can see after that is shame the 308 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 3: two characters Brandon any sort of a possible girlfriend or 309 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:04,160 Speaker 3: at this dinner table, and this waiter annoying way to 310 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 3: comes in every five seconds to interrupt them. I remember 311 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 3: that from having lots of dinners in New York and 312 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 3: every five seconds and what becomes in the middle of 313 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:12,840 Speaker 3: something was getting bigger. 314 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:15,400 Speaker 4: You know how conversations are. They had to get to 315 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 4: that point. 316 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 3: You know, it's always it was commercial buddy breaks every 317 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 3: five seconds. You have to start from scratch every five minutes. 318 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,400 Speaker 3: So it didn't make for a good eating experience. So 319 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:25,560 Speaker 3: I put that in the movie. 320 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 2: What do you eat on a film? 321 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:26,560 Speaker 4: So? 322 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 2: Do you hate stopping for lunch when you're filming? 323 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 4: No? 324 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 3: I think it's fantastic. I mean, what was so wonderful 325 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:36,800 Speaker 3: when I started filmmaking and Hunger and Sharing twelve is 326 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 3: it's like all the actors and all the crew will 327 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:42,200 Speaker 3: eat together. We the people in their body trailers in 328 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 3: that crap, everyone lead together. There's something about communal eating 329 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:54,080 Speaker 3: and it's about weed. It's such a unifying thing to see, 330 00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 3: you know, the hear and makeup and the camera department, 331 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 3: and tubing up for food and sitting at the table 332 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 3: together and talking about the film or talking about things. 333 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:04,280 Speaker 4: There's a camaraderie. 334 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:08,800 Speaker 3: It's only time often when you're sort of on set 335 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 3: together that you had that sort of times, you know, 336 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:16,080 Speaker 3: when you're sitting together eating and it's fun. 337 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 4: It's fun. I love it. 338 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 2: Year three is an exhibition that was at the Tate 339 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:30,840 Speaker 2: and I went to see it three times because every 340 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 2: time I went back, I saw something, something different in 341 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 2: the expression of a child of a teacher. It really 342 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 2: told the story of the world we live in through 343 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:43,560 Speaker 2: these photographs. And one of the issues that I think 344 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:48,200 Speaker 2: is very important is that when we had the lockdown 345 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:50,840 Speaker 2: a year ago, one of the things we learned that 346 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 2: when children were denied school, they were also denied food, 347 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:58,280 Speaker 2: and they were denied food at lunchtime, which might have 348 00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:03,000 Speaker 2: been their only of the day. And the idea that 349 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:06,880 Speaker 2: we have a society that children depend on having their 350 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 2: food away from the home because of the poverty in 351 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:13,680 Speaker 2: the home is appalling and shocking and distressing everything else. 352 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:16,520 Speaker 3: Yes, absolutely, I mean I had school, did this, which 353 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 3: I paid for by my mother. That's why even today. 354 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:24,240 Speaker 3: I like hot meals, love hot lunches, I mean, and 355 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 3: they were vital. 356 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 4: They were vital there were children. 357 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:29,880 Speaker 3: I know for a fact that that was the main 358 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:32,840 Speaker 3: meal of the day, if not the only meal of 359 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:35,359 Speaker 3: the day. And this is with our bottle of milk 360 00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:37,560 Speaker 3: in the morning before missus snatcher took it away from us. 361 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:40,639 Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, I love school meals in that way. Also, 362 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 4: just because we are such a good laugh in the canteen, 363 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:48,199 Speaker 4: you know, I associate food in school with good times 364 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:50,760 Speaker 4: and I can even remember the smell of it, the 365 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:55,639 Speaker 4: canteen and the noise and the cutlery banging together, and 366 00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 4: it's so important. You know. Also people have to sort 367 00:17:58,640 --> 00:17:59,960 Speaker 4: of really tip. 368 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:02,439 Speaker 3: They had to Marcus Rashford and what he did in 369 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:04,320 Speaker 3: the sense of, you know, getting the government to sort 370 00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:08,119 Speaker 3: of stand down twice about the school mill because you 371 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:09,920 Speaker 3: know it can This is, you know, if we can't 372 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:12,439 Speaker 3: look after people we can't afford to eat, then I 373 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 3: don't know who we are as human beings. That it 374 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 3: took a footballer to do that is kind of a bit, 375 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 3: you know. There you go, Everyone has got to step 376 00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 3: up in your own way. I suppose if people aren't 377 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:23,400 Speaker 3: doing their job properly, that meaning the government. And also 378 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:25,640 Speaker 3: don't forget this again. It's just one of those things 379 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 3: I feel that you know, everyone is unfortunately not brought 380 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 3: into this world equally. But if you just give someone 381 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:34,240 Speaker 3: the possibility a little bit of a shaft of life, 382 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:37,120 Speaker 3: one doesn't know where that might lead them to. So, yeah, 383 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:39,280 Speaker 3: the fact that people actually have a meal in the stomach, 384 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:45,200 Speaker 3: you know in Britain, Yeah, it's more than important. One 385 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:47,280 Speaker 3: thing I was very shocked by when I was shooting 386 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:50,840 Speaker 3: in Chicago, shooting widows was how I didn't see a 387 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 3: grocery store in a black neighborhood. I didn't see any 388 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:58,800 Speaker 3: greens in a black neighbor you know, there wasn't a 389 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:01,720 Speaker 3: green grocer's, but there was always some sort of fast 390 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 3: food place where people eat. 391 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:05,919 Speaker 4: So people are losing this sort of heritage of food. 392 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:09,600 Speaker 3: People are not aware of food and nourishment and possibilities 393 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:10,160 Speaker 3: within food. 394 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 4: And food is politics in a way. 395 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 3: It reverts back to what we were talking about right 396 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:20,280 Speaker 3: at the beginning of our conversation. It starts with like 397 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:23,919 Speaker 3: in a way markets because markets, a lot of markets 398 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 3: are on the threat, a lot of markets have closed. 399 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:29,680 Speaker 3: So this sense of community, sense of promarderate, a sense 400 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 3: of sort of love of food and love of each 401 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:36,480 Speaker 3: other is being sort of erased in the sort of 402 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:40,200 Speaker 3: you know, working class areas. I mean, you get these markets, 403 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:43,080 Speaker 3: but they're so they're kind of like posh markets, aren't they. 404 00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:45,000 Speaker 4: They're sort of farmers' markets, they call them. 405 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:48,639 Speaker 3: And you know, the food is so expensive, so and 406 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:51,960 Speaker 3: I can I feel that they're becoming kind of food 407 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:54,359 Speaker 3: deserts in a way where kids are growing up on 408 00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:57,680 Speaker 3: fast food and not being introduced to sort of love 409 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:00,800 Speaker 3: food in a way. So that's the which I'm a 410 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:02,280 Speaker 3: bit sort of concerned about. 411 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:06,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, food is a connection, and food is a memory, 412 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:10,959 Speaker 2: and food is giving and sharing, and food is political 413 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:15,399 Speaker 2: and social, and it's also comfort. It's something that we 414 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:18,600 Speaker 2: go to and we need comfort. And so I suppose 415 00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:22,720 Speaker 2: Steve McQueen, what would you say is the food you 416 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:24,920 Speaker 2: would go to if you needed comfort? 417 00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:28,320 Speaker 3: For me, the comfort food that I very much love 418 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:32,239 Speaker 3: and I appreciate is often the cold day, you know, 419 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:35,000 Speaker 3: and you come in and it's my mum's chicken soups 420 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:37,399 Speaker 3: West Indian chicken soup, which has the bones in it 421 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:39,720 Speaker 3: and stuff, you know, you suck on the bones and 422 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:42,480 Speaker 3: it's the sort of you know, it's the time, it's 423 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:45,000 Speaker 3: the garlic. It's all kinds of stuff, you know, the 424 00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:46,920 Speaker 3: sugaret ingredient which you want, you still want, a toom, 425 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 3: the dumplings, a bit of potatoes, a bit of peas. 426 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:50,600 Speaker 4: It's wonderful. 427 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:53,320 Speaker 3: So those are the kind of things I really love. Yeah, 428 00:20:53,520 --> 00:21:00,960 Speaker 3: And I could hear my dad sucking the bones right now. Wonderful, 429 00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:04,960 Speaker 3: you know, having those dinners together on those cold days. 430 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 3: I remember it was. It was beautiful. It was beautiful, 431 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 3: and lots of great memories. My dad's not anymore. So 432 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:13,160 Speaker 3: when I often do think about him, I do think 433 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:15,120 Speaker 3: about him, and that soup. I do think about him. 434 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:19,919 Speaker 3: Christmas and the ham, of course, and Christmas. Christmas breakfast 435 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:22,200 Speaker 3: was a big thing. Hot cocoa. 436 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 4: My dad would make a bake. A bake is a. 437 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:27,359 Speaker 3: Kind of a flat bread West Indian flat bread in 438 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:28,520 Speaker 3: the morning, and oh. 439 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 4: My god, how can I how can I not say this? 440 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:35,160 Speaker 4: Fish cakes, my mother's fish cakes. 441 00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:38,719 Speaker 3: Oh my god, my mother's fish cakes on the Christmas morning, 442 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:41,240 Speaker 3: and she's waiting these little bakes. 443 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:44,000 Speaker 4: Which was sort of like a like a bread you'll 444 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:45,919 Speaker 4: fry in oil. Oh my god. 445 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:50,000 Speaker 3: And even my daughterly when my mom comes up as yours, 446 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 3: ask Granny please make fish cakes for me because it's 447 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:55,119 Speaker 3: a West Indian fishcakes such as it's gorgeous and of 448 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:57,040 Speaker 3: course you know that there's never anything left for me 449 00:21:57,080 --> 00:21:59,879 Speaker 3: when I get home. But you know it's just a 450 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 3: I think, really, what you've done actually is actually given me. 451 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:05,719 Speaker 3: I mean facts, what love is rock, not even love 452 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:09,320 Speaker 3: is rock. That's what the whole of Small Acts was 453 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:12,359 Speaker 3: based on. The foundation of all of that was based 454 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:15,919 Speaker 3: on food and memory. Because it's what's so fascinating. I'm 455 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:19,600 Speaker 3: rambling on it again myself. But the smell is the 456 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:25,159 Speaker 3: most antaste is the most potent sources of memory, not 457 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 3: the photographs. Photographs is only tell you so much because 458 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:31,240 Speaker 3: you know it cuts out what's beyond. The frame is 459 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:35,880 Speaker 3: not present, it's not visible. When going on wrapping, I'll 460 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:36,520 Speaker 3: stop myself. 461 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:40,439 Speaker 2: No doubt it's beautiful, but it is what it does. 462 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:43,639 Speaker 2: There are people who say I never remembered that until 463 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:46,520 Speaker 2: we started talking about the food, and that brought back 464 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 2: the memory. I had somebody whose father had left home 465 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:52,760 Speaker 2: and he would when he saw his children on the weekends, 466 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:56,600 Speaker 2: he would suddenly start cooking for them. And he said, oh, 467 00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:58,960 Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't think I've ever told anybody 468 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:02,159 Speaker 2: that story. But now I remember my father actually is 469 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:05,800 Speaker 2: a way of his guilt or his love just started cooking, 470 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:08,280 Speaker 2: you know. And I think what you just when you 471 00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 2: choose your comfort food, you start thinking about your father 472 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:14,119 Speaker 2: and your mother, and you think about the memories and 473 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:18,520 Speaker 2: that it's so potent, isn't it. I thought it would 474 00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 2: be interesting, but what it really brings home over and 475 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:23,640 Speaker 2: over again is the connection that food has for us 476 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:24,400 Speaker 2: for memories. 477 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 4: Yeah, forget about this. I'm telling you, Doug, you've done it, mate, 478 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:32,000 Speaker 4: smell until you've done it. 479 00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:35,679 Speaker 2: Well, thank you, you've done it. It's all to do 480 00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:42,200 Speaker 2: with you. To visit the online shop of The River Cafe, 481 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:49,400 Speaker 2: go to shop the Rivercafe dot co dot uk. 482 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:54,800 Speaker 1: River Cafe Table four is a production of iHeartRadio and 483 00:23:54,800 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 1: Adami Studios. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 484 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:03,119 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.