Speaker 1: Hey there, folks. It is Thursday, June nineteenth. We are
Speaker 1: wrapping up the sixth week of testimony and the Didty trial,
Speaker 1: and two major questions remain. One will Diddy testify? Two?
Speaker 1: When will this thing end? And with that, welcome to
Speaker 1: this episode of AB and TJ. We continue to update
Speaker 1: you on what's going on right now. Nothing going on
Speaker 1: in court, of course, robes off of the Juneteenth holiday,
Speaker 1: but still a lot going on behind the scenes. They're
Speaker 1: off today. That might be a problem for the judge schedule.
Speaker 2: That's right, because they knew they were going to be
Speaker 2: off today today, of course as a federal holiday juneteenth,
Speaker 2: June nineteenth. I mixed those two together, mash them up together.
Speaker 2: But yesterday was the surprise, of course, that there was
Speaker 2: no testimony because a juror went home sick. So now
Speaker 2: they have to make up for that lost time from Wednesday,
Speaker 2: of course, the lost day today and Friday. Now the
Speaker 2: prosecution has to pick up where they thought they were
Speaker 2: beginning on Wednesday, and.
Speaker 1: Just a half day on Friday as well. That messes
Speaker 1: with the schedule, which they're off a half that's a
Speaker 1: half day for a good reason. One of the jurors
Speaker 1: has I think a sun's graduation. So they're letting them
Speaker 1: do that. I think that's really nice to hear. That's
Speaker 1: one of the kinder sides of the federal government, I
Speaker 1: guess in the federal court system, I should say I
Speaker 1: thought it was nice.
Speaker 2: That is nice, But it does extend the timeline from
Speaker 2: what they thought they were going to be able to
Speaker 2: hand over the part of the trial to the defense.
Speaker 3: Now looks like that's going to happen.
Speaker 2: Tuesday at the earliest, but maybe even as late as Wednesday,
Speaker 2: because the prosecution still has three witnesses to put on
Speaker 2: the stand, and a big one indeed in Ditty's former
Speaker 2: assistant Brendan Paul, who has been duped aka Ditty's drug mule.
Speaker 1: But yeah, he was there and ready to go yesterday.
Speaker 1: Everybody was ready to go, and then we got the
Speaker 1: word about the sick juror. But if we go back robes,
Speaker 1: the timeline from the very beginning was always the judge
Speaker 1: says he wants this thing wrapped up by the fourth
Speaker 1: the July. He has stuck to that. The prosecution started,
Speaker 1: they actually kept shrinking their timeline of how long they
Speaker 1: would take. It was six weeks and five and they
Speaker 1: so they're kind of wrapping up on time. They haven't
Speaker 1: drawn things out. The defense said initially they wanted two
Speaker 1: to three weeks.
Speaker 2: And that's when a lot of folks thought that perhaps
Speaker 2: that might mean that Sean Combs, Diddy himself, might get
Speaker 2: up and take the stand, although most defense lawyers would
Speaker 2: tell you that's not usually the best course of action.
Speaker 3: But who knows, with someone as well.
Speaker 2: He's larger than life, someone with the ego the size
Speaker 2: of Diddy might actually want to take the stand.
Speaker 1: You one out, find me one. I want to find
Speaker 1: one lawyer who would say I would recommend he take
Speaker 1: the stand. I would love to hear that argument.
Speaker 2: It's almost never the case because of what can happen
Speaker 2: during cross examine in a case.
Speaker 1: Like this when the can you imagine giving the state
Speaker 1: the right to ask him anything and he has to
Speaker 1: tell the truth because he's under oath. That's just not
Speaker 1: this not happened.
Speaker 3: Yes, and take the fifth probably wouldn't look good.
Speaker 2: So it's a no win situation for most defense clients,
Speaker 2: and specifically when you're somebody like Diddy. But still, when
Speaker 2: they said two to three weeks, that did have a
Speaker 2: lot of people wondering with that much time, who would
Speaker 2: be on the stand for that long where they would
Speaker 2: need that much because obviously, I think most folks know
Speaker 2: who are listening in the court of law and a
Speaker 2: criminal proceeding, the defense doesn't even have to put up
Speaker 2: a defense.
Speaker 3: They really don't. They don't have to put anyone on
Speaker 3: the stand.
Speaker 2: It is the burden of proof is solely and completely
Speaker 2: on the shoulders of the prosecution.
Speaker 1: It only seems so ballsy to me when I see it.
Speaker 1: Has seen some cases over the years where they say
Speaker 1: no questions for the witness, no questions for the witness
Speaker 1: when the prosecution is putting on and in your case,
Speaker 1: we have nothing.
Speaker 3: The defense rest in the defense rest, And.
Speaker 1: I'm like, wow, y'all they feel real good. You'll try something.
Speaker 1: Put his mom up there, let us say do anything.
Speaker 1: That's always interesting to me.
Speaker 2: And so so now the question is two to five days.
Speaker 2: They may be toying with who to put up on
Speaker 2: the stand. But it doesn't appear as though I think,
Speaker 2: you don't look anything can happen. But I think it's
Speaker 2: a very safe bet at this point that we can
Speaker 2: say with a fair amount of certainty that Diddy is
Speaker 2: not going to be taking the stand in the defense
Speaker 2: of himself.
Speaker 1: We would say that anyway, But after we hear the
Speaker 1: two to five days, obviously it would take a lot
Speaker 1: longer if he was going to be on the stand.
Speaker 1: So that moves the timeline you were looking at the calendar.
Speaker 1: So if all this the best, the most likely scenarios
Speaker 1: are that the prosecution won't rest until Monday.
Speaker 2: But that so with a half day on Friday all
Speaker 2: day on Monday, there is a chance that they.
Speaker 3: Could still bleed into Tuesday. But I think Tuesday at
Speaker 3: the lad.
Speaker 1: Let's go with Tuesday the defense starts putting on its case.
Speaker 1: Or will the judge say go home or go home
Speaker 1: for the day and come back tomorrow and start fresh.
Speaker 1: Will he nah, he wants to save time.
Speaker 2: I think it's a pretty decent guestimation that the defense
Speaker 2: will begin its case no later than Tuesday.
Speaker 1: Tuesday, okay, So let's go they take two days that
Speaker 1: at least, I mean, let's stay safe, they go through
Speaker 1: the end of the week.
Speaker 3: I think that's probably likely.
Speaker 1: Okay, So then we go to the following.
Speaker 3: Week, which is the week of the fourth of July.
Speaker 1: Okay, So June thirtieth, is the Monday. Don't have that right?
Speaker 3: Yes, June thirtieth is the Monday, and then one.
Speaker 1: Two three, so that would give them a few days
Speaker 1: to deliberate before the fourth of July holiday.
Speaker 2: Yes, and most juries will anyone who served on a
Speaker 2: jury will tell you that that is foremost on many
Speaker 2: of their minds, especially with the big holiday like this,
Speaker 2: which is a big part of family and fun, and
Speaker 2: there aren't many fun holidays in the summertime.
Speaker 3: This is the big one.
Speaker 2: And so yeah, I think that the jury is going
Speaker 2: to be highly motivated and incentivized to come back with
Speaker 2: a verdict by July third, which would be that Thursday.
Speaker 2: It actually would be two weeks from today, two weeks
Speaker 2: from today. The hope would be that the jury would
Speaker 2: come back with a verdict.
Speaker 1: You brought up a funny point. The idea of right,
Speaker 1: we already had one juror dismissed for being a little
Speaker 1: shady about where he lived. Another one is being talked
Speaker 1: about right now for possibly discussing the case with the colleague.
Speaker 1: The idea of twelve ditty jurors going to family gatherings, and.
Speaker 2: The alternates too. Because they can't they can't talk about
Speaker 2: it either.
Speaker 1: But the idea that they go to a family gathering,
Speaker 1: every single family member is coming up and asking about
Speaker 1: the trial.
Speaker 2: You are the most popular person at whatever gathering you're at, period,
Speaker 2: no question.
Speaker 3: And do you think if you've.
Speaker 2: Had a couple oina or whatever it is you choose
Speaker 2: to drink and relax with on the fourth of July,
Speaker 2: your lips might get a little looser. I think they might, Oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: this is gonna be Hey, everybody gather around.
Speaker 1: Don't tell nobody I told you all this. Oh goodness great. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they can't turn them loose for the fourth of July.
Speaker 2: But if they but I was just imagining, what if, okay,
Speaker 2: say that the defense goes a full five days, and
Speaker 2: what if they can't come to an agreement. The judge
Speaker 2: may have to say, don't talk to anybody, don't talk
Speaker 2: to anyone at your barbecue, don't talk to your family,
Speaker 2: and just have to hope that that's the case, because
Speaker 2: you can't. I mean, there's no way that they would
Speaker 2: push the jury to make a quick decision.
Speaker 3: And I imagine they the fourth of July is also a.
Speaker 2: Federal holiday, correct, so they automatically are going to be
Speaker 2: off on the fourth of July, which is a Friday
Speaker 2: this year.
Speaker 3: Yes, Yeah, which is.
Speaker 2: Going to be even a bigger party, a bigger celebration,
Speaker 2: bigger fireworks. Yeah, by July third, people are already getting
Speaker 2: ready to party.
Speaker 1: That's tough. And think about Diddy and that just for
Speaker 1: everybody in this case to think we have an extra
Speaker 1: day or long weekend to wait or something like that,
Speaker 1: that's tough. I know the judge wants to get this done,
Speaker 1: but it's can you imagine waiting for your fate and
Speaker 1: then having to wait through a three day weekend.
Speaker 2: Look, and these charges are complicated and they're they're not
Speaker 2: you know, a lot of folks aren't familiar with what
Speaker 2: does it take. What is the burden of proof for racketeering?
Speaker 2: What is the burden of proof for is it sex trafficking?
Speaker 2: I mean, there's just there are These are complicated federal
Speaker 2: charges that require a lot of I would I'm sure
Speaker 2: they're going to be asking questions and asking for further explanation.
Speaker 3: This isn't just a cut or dry case.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and do you know he's only been having court
Speaker 1: from nine to three every day, But he'll let them
Speaker 1: deliver it as long as they want to during the days,
Speaker 1: won't they.
Speaker 2: I mean, the judge's up to the judge's discretion and
Speaker 2: whatever the court hours are.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because everybody has this day.
Speaker 3: Yes.
Speaker 1: Wow. But to your we were talking about this before
Speaker 1: we started recording and saying, well, how quickly can we
Speaker 1: just raise our hand and guilty, guilty? You have to
Speaker 1: go through all this stuff and you were just reeling
Speaker 1: it off. It was hard to keep up with. There's
Speaker 1: one count of racketeering conspiracy. Now if you go into
Speaker 1: the jury room, first thing, what is that?
Speaker 3: Rico? Everyone says rico, And that's.
Speaker 1: Complicated as hell to me, Yes it is. And then
Speaker 1: the other words two counts of sex trafficking and then
Speaker 1: two counts of transportation to engage in prostitution. Some of
Speaker 1: that seems cutting dry based on some.
Speaker 3: Of the evidence we've seen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, but transportation to engage in I still would
Speaker 1: have to look up exactly what that means, and they
Speaker 1: exactly follow the law. And if you pay for this
Speaker 1: ticket but not that ticket doesn't mean this, and it's
Speaker 1: it is. I can't imagine to what we were saying here,
Speaker 1: the jury going in there and being able to come
Speaker 1: up with a verdict in a day, two days.
Speaker 2: That seems like that is very hard to imagine that
Speaker 2: happening in this case with what is on the line. Also,
Speaker 2: I think most of these jurors it would be hard
Speaker 2: not to consider this as a human being. This isn't
Speaker 2: just a case where you're deciding somebody is going to
Speaker 2: go away for a couple of years. This is a
Speaker 2: case where you're deciding whether or not someone who most
Speaker 2: of these folks have probably at least listen to, some
Speaker 2: of whom probably have long admired this person, who now
Speaker 2: if they rule in a certain way, will he will
Speaker 2: be behind bars for the rest of his life. The
Speaker 2: gravity of that, the weight of that, the responsibility of that,
Speaker 2: I imagine in and of itself, would give each juror
Speaker 2: more pause to carefully consider this. And if you just
Speaker 2: have one person who doesn't want to vote to convict,
Speaker 2: one person who feels unsure about his guilt or innocence,
Speaker 2: that can hold everything up. And you know, we've seen
Speaker 2: in a recent jury where you had someone come and
Speaker 2: tell the judge, I feel unsafe to go back to
Speaker 2: that deliberating room. This is, of course, in the Harvey
Speaker 2: Weinstein trial here again in Lower Manhattan, just this past week.
Speaker 3: They deliberated for three days.
Speaker 2: They were fine on the first few charges, but when
Speaker 2: it came to the rape charge, the most serious charge,
Speaker 2: one jur just would not agree with the other eleven jurors. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that Harvey Weinstein was and actually ended up going to
Speaker 2: the judge saying, I don't feel safe going back to
Speaker 2: this jury room because he was the only one who
Speaker 2: didn't want to convict on that charge. So, you know,
Speaker 2: anything can happen. You can have a split decision, you
Speaker 2: can have a hung jury, but it also depends on
Speaker 2: the judge to decide how long you'll let the jury
Speaker 2: sit out before you end up declaring a hung jury. So,
Speaker 2: I mean, there's just so many different outcomes. It would
Speaker 2: be wonderful if it were all wrapped up by July fourth.
Speaker 3: But I think it's possible, but it's not a guarantee.
Speaker 1: But to get twelve people, that's right, twelve people have
Speaker 1: to agree on everything if just one. You mentioned so
Speaker 1: much of the emotion and what you know of the
Speaker 1: guy and what's at stake, and then after hearing the
Speaker 1: emotional testimony of the women and you, so much is
Speaker 1: weighing on you and the decision I didn't think about
Speaker 1: it that way that it's very personal to a lot
Speaker 1: of these jurors. I thought it was complicated and it
Speaker 1: was heavy, but it is emotionally confusing a lot of
Speaker 1: what we have heard that does weigh in a decision,
Speaker 1: but the get twelve people to agree.
Speaker 2: I don't know the other thing I was thinking about,
Speaker 2: and we can get more into this, I think in
Speaker 2: some of the episodes that we will put out when
Speaker 2: we're waiting for the verdict, or at least if there's
Speaker 2: some time.
Speaker 3: Because another thought that I had about all.
Speaker 2: Of these women who came forward, especially even I mean,
Speaker 2: we had Mia testified under a pseudonym, we had Jane
Speaker 2: testifying under a pseudonym, and several of these employees who
Speaker 2: were compelled to testify, they were given immunity. What happens
Speaker 2: if Ditty is found not guilty? Are they concerned? Are
Speaker 2: they concerned about retribution? Are they concerned about their safety?
Speaker 2: Is there any protection put in place for any of
Speaker 2: these folks who said they did what they did because
Speaker 2: they were afraid of Ditty?
Speaker 3: What happened?
Speaker 2: So there's just so many questions and so much is
Speaker 2: on the line, not just for Ditty but for the
Speaker 2: folks for the people who bravely or in some.
Speaker 3: Cases were forced to testify.
Speaker 2: Against him, what happens to them if he isn't behind bars.
Speaker 2: I just I've had all of these thoughts, or you know,
Speaker 2: there's got to be so many people who are having
Speaker 2: sleepless nights until the outcome of this trial is known.
Speaker 1: Okay, well, we're going to have as a country maybe
Speaker 1: a sleepless night if if he walks after this trial,
Speaker 1: and then we're all confused as to why we heard
Speaker 1: horror after horror after horror, and we saw videotape of
Speaker 1: the horror. But he's not going to serve any time
Speaker 1: and no punishment for that. Now, what does that do
Speaker 1: When you mentioned survivors, when you mentioned people who have
Speaker 1: be interview women in particular, to see this trial, this
Speaker 1: high profile, what had what these women were forced to
Speaker 1: talk about in the public, and after all that, my
Speaker 1: abuser is going home, that's going I just.
Speaker 2: Got chills from head to toe because this isn't just
Speaker 2: about Diddy, and this isn't even just about these particular victims.
Speaker 2: And I think regardless of the outcome, it's fair to
Speaker 2: say we've said this in the podcast and I think
Speaker 2: most people would agree that these women were victimized in
Speaker 2: some way, shape or form, and whether or not they
Speaker 2: were complicit in other acts or not, they were still
Speaker 2: victimized in a lot of ways. But what this will
Speaker 2: do to future cases, to current cases that are out there,
Speaker 2: How does this impact women or men or anyone who
Speaker 2: has felt abused or undermined or didn't feel like they
Speaker 2: had the power to speak up for themselves or get
Speaker 2: out of a situation. It just creates an environment where
Speaker 2: you feel like you can't win again, that you're revictimized
Speaker 2: by the justice system, and there is no such thing
Speaker 2: as actual justice. I mean, there are so many ripple
Speaker 2: effects that could come from this trial. Because it's being
Speaker 2: watched so closely, and because the details have been so salacious.
Speaker 2: It's something that people not only are paying attention to,
Speaker 2: but some also something that they won't forget, and it
Speaker 2: may affect future trials or future it may affect the
Speaker 2: ability of people to come forward in the future.
Speaker 1: I mean, to put yourself out there like this. I
Speaker 1: know it as a part of a legal case. They
Speaker 1: were subpoena that they had to be there, but still
Speaker 1: to be I mean, some of the stuff. They admit
Speaker 1: they we heard the word how many times humiliating? Was embarrassing?
Speaker 1: They felt shame. Then they had to live it all
Speaker 1: again on the stand and have it recited all over
Speaker 1: the world. I to do that. There are plenty of
Speaker 1: women who are watching this who are going through some
Speaker 1: kind of hell right now in some relationship and watching
Speaker 1: that and feeling more and more helpless as the clock ticks,
Speaker 1: because what does justice look like. Look every blow you
Speaker 1: saw him land to cassivent, to refine, he's not being
Speaker 1: charged with that. So that to a lot of people
Speaker 1: is confusing. And so the government's going after all this
Speaker 1: big stuff. Okay, that's fine, but that's what was the
Speaker 1: Amber heard right whomen that Johnny Depp Amber heard there
Speaker 1: was a big conversation about abuse at the time, and
Speaker 1: what would that do to victims? And do it about
Speaker 1: coming forward? Because she she came forward, then she ends
Speaker 1: up being sued, right it was. So this was a
Speaker 1: fascinating one to me.
Speaker 2: Well, And the tough thing about this case in particular
Speaker 2: is that this wasn't a case in which any of
Speaker 2: these women went to police. It was only years later
Speaker 2: that they went to a lawyer and then pursued it
Speaker 2: with civil charges and with a financial ask tied to
Speaker 2: the end of it, and that is also something that
Speaker 2: has a lot of folks questioning motives and questioning whether
Speaker 2: or not these women were actually victims or if they
Speaker 2: were looking for another way to be financially compensated for
Speaker 2: what they went through, which is there is a difference
Speaker 2: between the two. So you know, there are a lot
Speaker 2: of questions and there's going to be a lot of
Speaker 2: Monday morning quarterbacking when this trial is over.
Speaker 3: But it has been fascinating from start to now.
Speaker 2: We're in the middle of this and honestly, I think
Speaker 2: what will happen in terms of what the defense will
Speaker 2: present and how the jury will go through all of
Speaker 2: this confusing information and make a determination about what they
Speaker 2: think what justice looks like, what it is. This is
Speaker 2: going to be studied for a long time and I'm fascinated.
Speaker 2: And the truth is, no one knows what's going to happen.
Speaker 3: No one.
Speaker 1: Well, we think we know what's going to happen tomorrow.
Speaker 1: They are supposed to be back in court tomorrow. We
Speaker 1: haven't gotten official word that all is good with the
Speaker 1: juror as of this recording at least, But if that's
Speaker 1: the case, I'll be back in there nine am. But
Speaker 1: going to wrap by one, I think in the afternoon
Speaker 1: and that'll be it for the day. So we will
Speaker 1: see if the prosecution does actually rest its case.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but we will keep you updated.
Speaker 2: We'll keep our eyes on any new information that may
Speaker 2: come down today that could affect tomorrow. But in the meantime,
Speaker 2: we hope you are enjoying your Juneteenth today and we
Speaker 2: hope you'll check us out for the next episode that
Speaker 2: drops