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Speaker 1: Hey there, folks. It is Thursday, June nineteenth. We are

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Speaker 1: wrapping up the sixth week of testimony and the Didty trial,

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Speaker 1: and two major questions remain. One will Diddy testify? Two?

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Speaker 1: When will this thing end? And with that, welcome to

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Speaker 1: this episode of AB and TJ. We continue to update

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Speaker 1: you on what's going on right now. Nothing going on

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Speaker 1: in court, of course, robes off of the Juneteenth holiday,

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Speaker 1: but still a lot going on behind the scenes. They're

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Speaker 1: off today. That might be a problem for the judge schedule.

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Speaker 2: That's right, because they knew they were going to be

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Speaker 2: off today today, of course as a federal holiday juneteenth,

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Speaker 2: June nineteenth. I mixed those two together, mash them up together.

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Speaker 2: But yesterday was the surprise, of course, that there was

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Speaker 2: no testimony because a juror went home sick. So now

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Speaker 2: they have to make up for that lost time from Wednesday,

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Speaker 2: of course, the lost day today and Friday. Now the

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Speaker 2: prosecution has to pick up where they thought they were

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Speaker 2: beginning on Wednesday, and.

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Speaker 1: Just a half day on Friday as well. That messes

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Speaker 1: with the schedule, which they're off a half that's a

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Speaker 1: half day for a good reason. One of the jurors

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Speaker 1: has I think a sun's graduation. So they're letting them

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Speaker 1: do that. I think that's really nice to hear. That's

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Speaker 1: one of the kinder sides of the federal government, I

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Speaker 1: guess in the federal court system, I should say I

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Speaker 1: thought it was nice.

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Speaker 2: That is nice, But it does extend the timeline from

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Speaker 2: what they thought they were going to be able to

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Speaker 2: hand over the part of the trial to the defense.

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Speaker 3: Now looks like that's going to happen.

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Speaker 2: Tuesday at the earliest, but maybe even as late as Wednesday,

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Speaker 2: because the prosecution still has three witnesses to put on

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Speaker 2: the stand, and a big one indeed in Ditty's former

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Speaker 2: assistant Brendan Paul, who has been duped aka Ditty's drug mule.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, he was there and ready to go yesterday.

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Speaker 1: Everybody was ready to go, and then we got the

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Speaker 1: word about the sick juror. But if we go back robes,

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Speaker 1: the timeline from the very beginning was always the judge

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Speaker 1: says he wants this thing wrapped up by the fourth

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Speaker 1: the July. He has stuck to that. The prosecution started,

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Speaker 1: they actually kept shrinking their timeline of how long they

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Speaker 1: would take. It was six weeks and five and they

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Speaker 1: so they're kind of wrapping up on time. They haven't

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Speaker 1: drawn things out. The defense said initially they wanted two

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Speaker 1: to three weeks.

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Speaker 2: And that's when a lot of folks thought that perhaps

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Speaker 2: that might mean that Sean Combs, Diddy himself, might get

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Speaker 2: up and take the stand, although most defense lawyers would

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Speaker 2: tell you that's not usually the best course of action.

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Speaker 3: But who knows, with someone as well.

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Speaker 2: He's larger than life, someone with the ego the size

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Speaker 2: of Diddy might actually want to take the stand.

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Speaker 1: You one out, find me one. I want to find

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Speaker 1: one lawyer who would say I would recommend he take

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Speaker 1: the stand. I would love to hear that argument.

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Speaker 2: It's almost never the case because of what can happen

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Speaker 2: during cross examine in a case.

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Speaker 1: Like this when the can you imagine giving the state

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Speaker 1: the right to ask him anything and he has to

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Speaker 1: tell the truth because he's under oath. That's just not

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Speaker 1: this not happened.

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Speaker 3: Yes, and take the fifth probably wouldn't look good.

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Speaker 2: So it's a no win situation for most defense clients,

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Speaker 2: and specifically when you're somebody like Diddy. But still, when

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Speaker 2: they said two to three weeks, that did have a

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Speaker 2: lot of people wondering with that much time, who would

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Speaker 2: be on the stand for that long where they would

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Speaker 2: need that much because obviously, I think most folks know

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Speaker 2: who are listening in the court of law and a

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Speaker 2: criminal proceeding, the defense doesn't even have to put up

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Speaker 2: a defense.

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Speaker 3: They really don't. They don't have to put anyone on

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Speaker 3: the stand.

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Speaker 2: It is the burden of proof is solely and completely

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Speaker 2: on the shoulders of the prosecution.

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Speaker 1: It only seems so ballsy to me when I see it.

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Speaker 1: Has seen some cases over the years where they say

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Speaker 1: no questions for the witness, no questions for the witness

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Speaker 1: when the prosecution is putting on and in your case,

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Speaker 1: we have nothing.

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Speaker 3: The defense rest in the defense rest, And.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, wow, y'all they feel real good. You'll try something.

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Speaker 1: Put his mom up there, let us say do anything.

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Speaker 1: That's always interesting to me.

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Speaker 2: And so so now the question is two to five days.

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Speaker 2: They may be toying with who to put up on

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Speaker 2: the stand. But it doesn't appear as though I think,

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Speaker 2: you don't look anything can happen. But I think it's

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Speaker 2: a very safe bet at this point that we can

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Speaker 2: say with a fair amount of certainty that Diddy is

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Speaker 2: not going to be taking the stand in the defense

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Speaker 2: of himself.

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Speaker 1: We would say that anyway, But after we hear the

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Speaker 1: two to five days, obviously it would take a lot

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Speaker 1: longer if he was going to be on the stand.

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Speaker 1: So that moves the timeline you were looking at the calendar.

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Speaker 1: So if all this the best, the most likely scenarios

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Speaker 1: are that the prosecution won't rest until Monday.

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Speaker 2: But that so with a half day on Friday all

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Speaker 2: day on Monday, there is a chance that they.

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Speaker 3: Could still bleed into Tuesday. But I think Tuesday at

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Speaker 3: the lad.

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Speaker 1: Let's go with Tuesday the defense starts putting on its case.

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Speaker 1: Or will the judge say go home or go home

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Speaker 1: for the day and come back tomorrow and start fresh.

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Speaker 1: Will he nah, he wants to save time.

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Speaker 2: I think it's a pretty decent guestimation that the defense

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Speaker 2: will begin its case no later than Tuesday.

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Speaker 1: Tuesday, okay, So let's go they take two days that

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Speaker 1: at least, I mean, let's stay safe, they go through

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Speaker 1: the end of the week.

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Speaker 3: I think that's probably likely.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So then we go to the following.

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Speaker 3: Week, which is the week of the fourth of July.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So June thirtieth, is the Monday. Don't have that right?

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Speaker 3: Yes, June thirtieth is the Monday, and then one.

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Speaker 1: Two three, so that would give them a few days

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Speaker 1: to deliberate before the fourth of July holiday.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and most juries will anyone who served on a

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Speaker 2: jury will tell you that that is foremost on many

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Speaker 2: of their minds, especially with the big holiday like this,

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Speaker 2: which is a big part of family and fun, and

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Speaker 2: there aren't many fun holidays in the summertime.

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Speaker 3: This is the big one.

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Speaker 2: And so yeah, I think that the jury is going

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Speaker 2: to be highly motivated and incentivized to come back with

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Speaker 2: a verdict by July third, which would be that Thursday.

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Speaker 2: It actually would be two weeks from today, two weeks

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Speaker 2: from today. The hope would be that the jury would

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Speaker 2: come back with a verdict.

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Speaker 1: You brought up a funny point. The idea of right,

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Speaker 1: we already had one juror dismissed for being a little

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Speaker 1: shady about where he lived. Another one is being talked

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Speaker 1: about right now for possibly discussing the case with the colleague.

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Speaker 1: The idea of twelve ditty jurors going to family gatherings, and.

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Speaker 2: The alternates too. Because they can't they can't talk about

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Speaker 2: it either.

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Speaker 1: But the idea that they go to a family gathering,

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Speaker 1: every single family member is coming up and asking about

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Speaker 1: the trial.

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Speaker 2: You are the most popular person at whatever gathering you're at, period,

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Speaker 2: no question.

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Speaker 3: And do you think if you've.

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Speaker 2: Had a couple oina or whatever it is you choose

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Speaker 2: to drink and relax with on the fourth of July,

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Speaker 2: your lips might get a little looser. I think they might, Oh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: this is gonna be Hey, everybody gather around.

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Speaker 1: Don't tell nobody I told you all this. Oh goodness great. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they can't turn them loose for the fourth of July.

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Speaker 2: But if they but I was just imagining, what if, okay,

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Speaker 2: say that the defense goes a full five days, and

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Speaker 2: what if they can't come to an agreement. The judge

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Speaker 2: may have to say, don't talk to anybody, don't talk

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Speaker 2: to anyone at your barbecue, don't talk to your family,

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Speaker 2: and just have to hope that that's the case, because

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Speaker 2: you can't. I mean, there's no way that they would

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Speaker 2: push the jury to make a quick decision.

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Speaker 3: And I imagine they the fourth of July is also a.

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Speaker 2: Federal holiday, correct, so they automatically are going to be

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Speaker 2: off on the fourth of July, which is a Friday

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Speaker 2: this year.

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Speaker 3: Yes, Yeah, which is.

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Speaker 2: Going to be even a bigger party, a bigger celebration,

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Speaker 2: bigger fireworks. Yeah, by July third, people are already getting

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Speaker 2: ready to party.

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Speaker 1: That's tough. And think about Diddy and that just for

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Speaker 1: everybody in this case to think we have an extra

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Speaker 1: day or long weekend to wait or something like that,

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Speaker 1: that's tough. I know the judge wants to get this done,

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Speaker 1: but it's can you imagine waiting for your fate and

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Speaker 1: then having to wait through a three day weekend.

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Speaker 2: Look, and these charges are complicated and they're they're not

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Speaker 2: you know, a lot of folks aren't familiar with what

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Speaker 2: does it take. What is the burden of proof for racketeering?

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Speaker 2: What is the burden of proof for is it sex trafficking?

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Speaker 2: I mean, there's just there are These are complicated federal

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Speaker 2: charges that require a lot of I would I'm sure

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Speaker 2: they're going to be asking questions and asking for further explanation.

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Speaker 3: This isn't just a cut or dry case.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and do you know he's only been having court

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Speaker 1: from nine to three every day, But he'll let them

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Speaker 1: deliver it as long as they want to during the days,

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Speaker 1: won't they.

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Speaker 2: I mean, the judge's up to the judge's discretion and

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Speaker 2: whatever the court hours are.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because everybody has this day.

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Speaker 3: Yes.

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Speaker 1: Wow. But to your we were talking about this before

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Speaker 1: we started recording and saying, well, how quickly can we

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Speaker 1: just raise our hand and guilty, guilty? You have to

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Speaker 1: go through all this stuff and you were just reeling

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Speaker 1: it off. It was hard to keep up with. There's

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Speaker 1: one count of racketeering conspiracy. Now if you go into

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Speaker 1: the jury room, first thing, what is that?

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Speaker 3: Rico? Everyone says rico, And that's.

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Speaker 1: Complicated as hell to me, Yes it is. And then

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Speaker 1: the other words two counts of sex trafficking and then

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Speaker 1: two counts of transportation to engage in prostitution. Some of

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Speaker 1: that seems cutting dry based on some.

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Speaker 3: Of the evidence we've seen.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, but transportation to engage in I still would

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Speaker 1: have to look up exactly what that means, and they

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Speaker 1: exactly follow the law. And if you pay for this

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Speaker 1: ticket but not that ticket doesn't mean this, and it's

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Speaker 1: it is. I can't imagine to what we were saying here,

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Speaker 1: the jury going in there and being able to come

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Speaker 1: up with a verdict in a day, two days.

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Speaker 2: That seems like that is very hard to imagine that

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Speaker 2: happening in this case with what is on the line. Also,

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Speaker 2: I think most of these jurors it would be hard

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Speaker 2: not to consider this as a human being. This isn't

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Speaker 2: just a case where you're deciding somebody is going to

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Speaker 2: go away for a couple of years. This is a

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Speaker 2: case where you're deciding whether or not someone who most

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Speaker 2: of these folks have probably at least listen to, some

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Speaker 2: of whom probably have long admired this person, who now

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Speaker 2: if they rule in a certain way, will he will

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Speaker 2: be behind bars for the rest of his life. The

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Speaker 2: gravity of that, the weight of that, the responsibility of that,

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Speaker 2: I imagine in and of itself, would give each juror

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Speaker 2: more pause to carefully consider this. And if you just

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Speaker 2: have one person who doesn't want to vote to convict,

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Speaker 2: one person who feels unsure about his guilt or innocence,

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Speaker 2: that can hold everything up. And you know, we've seen

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Speaker 2: in a recent jury where you had someone come and

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Speaker 2: tell the judge, I feel unsafe to go back to

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Speaker 2: that deliberating room. This is, of course, in the Harvey

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Speaker 2: Weinstein trial here again in Lower Manhattan, just this past week.

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Speaker 3: They deliberated for three days.

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Speaker 2: They were fine on the first few charges, but when

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Speaker 2: it came to the rape charge, the most serious charge,

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Speaker 2: one jur just would not agree with the other eleven jurors. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that Harvey Weinstein was and actually ended up going to

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Speaker 2: the judge saying, I don't feel safe going back to

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Speaker 2: this jury room because he was the only one who

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Speaker 2: didn't want to convict on that charge. So, you know,

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Speaker 2: anything can happen. You can have a split decision, you

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Speaker 2: can have a hung jury, but it also depends on

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Speaker 2: the judge to decide how long you'll let the jury

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Speaker 2: sit out before you end up declaring a hung jury. So,

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Speaker 2: I mean, there's just so many different outcomes. It would

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Speaker 2: be wonderful if it were all wrapped up by July fourth.

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Speaker 3: But I think it's possible, but it's not a guarantee.

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Speaker 1: But to get twelve people, that's right, twelve people have

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Speaker 1: to agree on everything if just one. You mentioned so

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Speaker 1: much of the emotion and what you know of the

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Speaker 1: guy and what's at stake, and then after hearing the

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Speaker 1: emotional testimony of the women and you, so much is

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Speaker 1: weighing on you and the decision I didn't think about

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Speaker 1: it that way that it's very personal to a lot

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Speaker 1: of these jurors. I thought it was complicated and it

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Speaker 1: was heavy, but it is emotionally confusing a lot of

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Speaker 1: what we have heard that does weigh in a decision,

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Speaker 1: but the get twelve people to agree.

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Speaker 2: I don't know the other thing I was thinking about,

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Speaker 2: and we can get more into this, I think in

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Speaker 2: some of the episodes that we will put out when

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Speaker 2: we're waiting for the verdict, or at least if there's

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Speaker 2: some time.

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Speaker 3: Because another thought that I had about all.

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Speaker 2: Of these women who came forward, especially even I mean,

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Speaker 2: we had Mia testified under a pseudonym, we had Jane

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Speaker 2: testifying under a pseudonym, and several of these employees who

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Speaker 2: were compelled to testify, they were given immunity. What happens

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Speaker 2: if Ditty is found not guilty? Are they concerned? Are

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Speaker 2: they concerned about retribution? Are they concerned about their safety?

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Speaker 2: Is there any protection put in place for any of

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Speaker 2: these folks who said they did what they did because

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Speaker 2: they were afraid of Ditty?

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Speaker 3: What happened?

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Speaker 2: So there's just so many questions and so much is

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Speaker 2: on the line, not just for Ditty but for the

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Speaker 2: folks for the people who bravely or in some.

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Speaker 3: Cases were forced to testify.

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Speaker 2: Against him, what happens to them if he isn't behind bars.

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Speaker 2: I just I've had all of these thoughts, or you know,

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Speaker 2: there's got to be so many people who are having

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Speaker 2: sleepless nights until the outcome of this trial is known.

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Speaker 1: Okay, well, we're going to have as a country maybe

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Speaker 1: a sleepless night if if he walks after this trial,

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Speaker 1: and then we're all confused as to why we heard

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Speaker 1: horror after horror after horror, and we saw videotape of

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Speaker 1: the horror. But he's not going to serve any time

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Speaker 1: and no punishment for that. Now, what does that do

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Speaker 1: When you mentioned survivors, when you mentioned people who have

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Speaker 1: be interview women in particular, to see this trial, this

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Speaker 1: high profile, what had what these women were forced to

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Speaker 1: talk about in the public, and after all that, my

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Speaker 1: abuser is going home, that's going I just.

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Speaker 2: Got chills from head to toe because this isn't just

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Speaker 2: about Diddy, and this isn't even just about these particular victims.

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Speaker 2: And I think regardless of the outcome, it's fair to

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Speaker 2: say we've said this in the podcast and I think

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Speaker 2: most people would agree that these women were victimized in

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Speaker 2: some way, shape or form, and whether or not they

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Speaker 2: were complicit in other acts or not, they were still

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Speaker 2: victimized in a lot of ways. But what this will

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Speaker 2: do to future cases, to current cases that are out there,

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Speaker 2: How does this impact women or men or anyone who

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Speaker 2: has felt abused or undermined or didn't feel like they

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Speaker 2: had the power to speak up for themselves or get

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Speaker 2: out of a situation. It just creates an environment where

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Speaker 2: you feel like you can't win again, that you're revictimized

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Speaker 2: by the justice system, and there is no such thing

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Speaker 2: as actual justice. I mean, there are so many ripple

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Speaker 2: effects that could come from this trial. Because it's being

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Speaker 2: watched so closely, and because the details have been so salacious.

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Speaker 2: It's something that people not only are paying attention to,

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Speaker 2: but some also something that they won't forget, and it

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Speaker 2: may affect future trials or future it may affect the

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Speaker 2: ability of people to come forward in the future.

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Speaker 1: I mean, to put yourself out there like this. I

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Speaker 1: know it as a part of a legal case. They

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Speaker 1: were subpoena that they had to be there, but still

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Speaker 1: to be I mean, some of the stuff. They admit

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Speaker 1: they we heard the word how many times humiliating? Was embarrassing?

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Speaker 1: They felt shame. Then they had to live it all

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Speaker 1: again on the stand and have it recited all over

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Speaker 1: the world. I to do that. There are plenty of

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Speaker 1: women who are watching this who are going through some

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Speaker 1: kind of hell right now in some relationship and watching

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Speaker 1: that and feeling more and more helpless as the clock ticks,

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Speaker 1: because what does justice look like. Look every blow you

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Speaker 1: saw him land to cassivent, to refine, he's not being

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Speaker 1: charged with that. So that to a lot of people

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Speaker 1: is confusing. And so the government's going after all this

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Speaker 1: big stuff. Okay, that's fine, but that's what was the

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Speaker 1: Amber heard right whomen that Johnny Depp Amber heard there

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Speaker 1: was a big conversation about abuse at the time, and

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Speaker 1: what would that do to victims? And do it about

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Speaker 1: coming forward? Because she she came forward, then she ends

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Speaker 1: up being sued, right it was. So this was a

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Speaker 1: fascinating one to me.

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Speaker 2: Well, And the tough thing about this case in particular

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Speaker 2: is that this wasn't a case in which any of

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Speaker 2: these women went to police. It was only years later

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Speaker 2: that they went to a lawyer and then pursued it

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Speaker 2: with civil charges and with a financial ask tied to

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Speaker 2: the end of it, and that is also something that

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Speaker 2: has a lot of folks questioning motives and questioning whether

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Speaker 2: or not these women were actually victims or if they

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Speaker 2: were looking for another way to be financially compensated for

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Speaker 2: what they went through, which is there is a difference

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Speaker 2: between the two. So you know, there are a lot

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Speaker 2: of questions and there's going to be a lot of

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Speaker 2: Monday morning quarterbacking when this trial is over.

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Speaker 3: But it has been fascinating from start to now.

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Speaker 2: We're in the middle of this and honestly, I think

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Speaker 2: what will happen in terms of what the defense will

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Speaker 2: present and how the jury will go through all of

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Speaker 2: this confusing information and make a determination about what they

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Speaker 2: think what justice looks like, what it is. This is

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Speaker 2: going to be studied for a long time and I'm fascinated.

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Speaker 2: And the truth is, no one knows what's going to happen.

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Speaker 3: No one.

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Speaker 1: Well, we think we know what's going to happen tomorrow.

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Speaker 1: They are supposed to be back in court tomorrow. We

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Speaker 1: haven't gotten official word that all is good with the

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Speaker 1: juror as of this recording at least, But if that's

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Speaker 1: the case, I'll be back in there nine am. But

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Speaker 1: going to wrap by one, I think in the afternoon

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Speaker 1: and that'll be it for the day. So we will

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Speaker 1: see if the prosecution does actually rest its case.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but we will keep you updated.

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Speaker 2: We'll keep our eyes on any new information that may

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Speaker 2: come down today that could affect tomorrow. But in the meantime,

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Speaker 2: we hope you are enjoying your Juneteenth today and we

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Speaker 2: hope you'll check us out for the next episode that

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Speaker 2: drops