Speaker 1: Of the law and order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies. These episodes are based on.
Speaker 3: These are our stories, done done.
Speaker 2: Hello, Welcome to That's Messed Up an SVU podcast.
Speaker 1: I'm one of your hosts, Lisa Traeger. I'm the other host,
Speaker 1: the other half of the circle. My name is Kara Klink.
Speaker 1: And you guys know what we do here. We talk
Speaker 1: about an episode of SVU, We talk about the true
Speaker 1: crimeas based on and then we interview a super cool
Speaker 1: star from the show, and we are do.
Speaker 4: You think of Seinfeld every time I go Hello?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 4: Okay, why what's that?
Speaker 2: It's an episode where Jerry has like a voice for
Speaker 2: his girlfriend's stomach where and he kept going hello. She
Speaker 2: found out about it and was like so offended and
Speaker 2: was like, how dare you? And then she goes, you
Speaker 2: need to choose, like you that saying hello or being
Speaker 2: with me, and he goes, I need to think about it.
Speaker 2: And then Elaine and Kramer and Everyone's just like, we're
Speaker 2: actually sick of it. Please stop fucking saying.
Speaker 4: Oh, I don't remember that episode. That's crazy but.
Speaker 2: Then but then he says it one more time to
Speaker 2: really annoy her, and she runs off and slams the door.
Speaker 1: I think of hello, Hello, Hello with ru Paul sometimes
Speaker 1: when we say that, but that's yeah, but we are
Speaker 1: dying to say hello, hello, Hello to all of you
Speaker 1: guys in person.
Speaker 4: We are on tour this fall.
Speaker 1: Just a reminder, guys, the tickets in DC are flying,
Speaker 1: so get those DC tickets because you don't.
Speaker 4: Want to do I'm doing stand up in DC too,
Speaker 4: Please come to that. Yeah, it is.
Speaker 1: Before the pod stand up September eighth and ninth, I believe,
Speaker 1: and then we're doing our show on the tenth. So
Speaker 1: that's it's my I'm a perfect TMU weekend.
Speaker 2: It is because it's my first time in the big room,
Speaker 2: so it's kind of a t so we really.
Speaker 1: Got a packs. Go see Lee's in the big room. Babies,
Speaker 1: she is one to catch and listen. We're going to
Speaker 1: be in Atlanta a City Winery on the twelfth, We're
Speaker 1: going to be in Charlotte on the thirteenth, and rally
Speaker 1: on the fourteenth. Those are just our September dates. Obviously
Speaker 1: doing a ton more. Go to Thats Mess Up Live
Speaker 1: Dot com that tells you all of our dates. Also, Toronto,
Speaker 1: we're finally coming to you, and we changed our date.
Speaker 1: I know, we originally released a December date, but we
Speaker 1: had to move it and now we're coming even earlier
Speaker 1: in October, so come see us. Our RTSA pre check
Speaker 1: doesn't work in Toronto in Canada, so we're really like
Speaker 1: taking one for you guys by coming there because we
Speaker 1: have to wait in regular lines. Just kidding, No, I
Speaker 1: never Global Entry right now, Oh my god, just for
Speaker 1: the Toronto It's kind of a good idea. I've never
Speaker 1: been to Toronto, so I'm really excited.
Speaker 2: You know what from Global Entry is you have to
Speaker 2: like put your last five addresses And I was like.
Speaker 4: You know what, I'll wait in line. What are the Yeah?
Speaker 1: But yes, come see us up from September to December.
Speaker 1: We're all over the country and we're excited to see
Speaker 1: you guys. And stay tuned cuz as of the this
Speaker 1: release of this recording, we will be performing in Chicago.
Speaker 1: A Chicago show has been announced. We will be there
Speaker 1: on November fifth. We're so excited. Yeah, and the Chicago
Speaker 1: venue is Park West, which is a huge fucking deal.
Speaker 2: It is awesome there. I've been to concerts there, shows.
Speaker 2: It's really a staple of Chicago and it's like a
Speaker 2: huge honor to be there. So I cannot wait. It's
Speaker 2: a big venue. So from the suburbs, from the city,
Speaker 2: drive on in. Maybe you live, you know, four hours away.
Speaker 4: Do it?
Speaker 1: Come and see us. Yeah, I'm so excited about that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we love Chicago.
Speaker 2: Everything. Well, we have to obviously talk about Jonah Hill.
Speaker 2: It would be psychotic if we didn't, like.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we do, we do, we do. I've been like,
Speaker 4: I've been reading the context.
Speaker 2: The funny thing is anyone defending that behavior because it's like,
Speaker 2: whatever you think about it. But I guess it boils
Speaker 2: down to if you believe that men should tell women
Speaker 2: to not be around other men and address modestly, then
Speaker 2: you see nothing wrong with this. But I'm really shocked
Speaker 2: by all the Jonah Hill defense.
Speaker 1: It's like, isn't he a tour If you don't know
Speaker 1: what we're talking about, Yeah, if you don't know what
Speaker 1: we're talking.
Speaker 4: About, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think he's I actually think Jonahill's kind of beloved.
Speaker 1: I think people do love him and like being known
Speaker 1: is a dick, Like we were at a party with
Speaker 1: him one time.
Speaker 2: Yes, but guess what that person's no longer with him
Speaker 2: because he's a manipi, a little piece of shit.
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: Like he caused a lot of problems for her, Like
Speaker 1: this isn't a first thing, but like maybe we know that,
Speaker 1: maybe that's not common novelge.
Speaker 2: He's also not in any Beanie wedding photos. He's not
Speaker 2: in one wedding photos she posted. She posted like three carousels.
Speaker 2: He's not in any pictures. Wait, do you know what's
Speaker 2: really cool about Beanie's wedding? Her flowers are paper.
Speaker 1: She's allergic to flowers, so they had all the flowers
Speaker 1: are made of paper.
Speaker 4: She's allergic to flowers. That sucks.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well listen if you don't know what we're talking about. Basically,
Speaker 1: Jonah Hill used to go out with this girl who's
Speaker 1: like a professional surfer and a model, and she posts
Speaker 1: photos of herself in bathing suits surfing with guys surfing
Speaker 1: like whatever, And she released these text messages from their
Speaker 1: relationship where he was basically telling her like, I don't
Speaker 1: want you. If you want to be in a relationship
Speaker 1: with me, I don't want you. Posing scantily I don't
Speaker 1: want you being with guys. I don't want you having
Speaker 1: relationships with unstable women, like friendships with unstable women. I
Speaker 1: don't want you like model. Basically, I don't want you
Speaker 1: modeling and all this stuff. And it's like she and
Speaker 1: there's like back and forth where she goes this is
Speaker 1: like one of my best videos, Like the thumbnail is
Speaker 1: a picture of me in a bathing suit. You want
Speaker 1: me to take it down? Like, and he's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it's base all this controlling behavior. But what
Speaker 1: to me is also really kind of insidious about it,
Speaker 1: is how he's using therapy speak to make it sound
Speaker 1: like it's normal. He basically is saying, look, these are
Speaker 1: my boundaries. I'm setting my boundaries and you are intentionally
Speaker 1: breaking my boundaries and that's hurtful to me. And it's like, no,
Speaker 1: you are trying to control this woman. That's not the
Speaker 1: same thing as a boundary, Like you're telling her what
Speaker 1: she can and can't, who she can and can't be with,
Speaker 1: and who she can and can't have friends with because
Speaker 1: she can't where. Yeah, that's not a boundary. That's you
Speaker 1: being controlling.
Speaker 2: It's well, someone I forgot what because I was I
Speaker 2: was trying to look at everything on the internet about it,
Speaker 2: but someone posted, like, we keep saying for men to
Speaker 2: go to therapy, and I've been against it because not me.
Speaker 2: This is what I saw online, because therapy has just
Speaker 2: made men stronger because now they have all this language.
Speaker 2: And what's crazy is Jonah Hill did a show being
Speaker 2: like my therapist is the best. Get to know my therapist,
Speaker 2: And then you see these like insecure, controlling as texts,
Speaker 2: like it's fucking psycho, but it's.
Speaker 4: It's especially because you're in the limelight.
Speaker 1: You're a person who's very out there and like you're
Speaker 1: in movies with women, you have relationships with women on sets.
Speaker 1: I'm sure like she's not telling you what she feels
Speaker 1: comfortable with you wearing, or you kissing a woman in
Speaker 1: a movie or whatever like goes on with your career.
Speaker 1: You know, it's like it's just going from him. I mean,
Speaker 1: maybe maybe he is. I don't know their relationship, but
Speaker 1: I doubt it.
Speaker 2: No, I fully doubt it. He's so backwards. This is
Speaker 2: so old, Like he's a swarp. He's always been a swerp.
Speaker 2: It's just he's never been great. It's like you're a
Speaker 2: fucking Nepo baby to an incredible career to Scorsese and
Speaker 2: go fuck yourself.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I Another thing that I saw was like, also, these men,
Speaker 1: they don't go for subservient women.
Speaker 4: It's not like like you can find women that believe
Speaker 4: in this.
Speaker 2: You can find women that believe in pressing modestly and
Speaker 2: serving your husband.
Speaker 4: Like there are women that exist these types. Some men
Speaker 4: don't want that.
Speaker 2: They want to date a powerful, cool, baddie of a woman.
Speaker 2: I don't use battye, but that was one of the
Speaker 2: tiktoks I watched. But it's like they get a battye
Speaker 2: and then they break her down and try to control her,
Speaker 2: and that's what they get off on. These narcissists, like
Speaker 2: controlling lunatics. They don't want someone that's grew up religious
Speaker 2: and wants this life. They want to take a surfing
Speaker 2: instructor who has a hot body and is an awesome,
Speaker 2: respected girl and tear her down month by month until
Speaker 2: you're like, I don't want you surfing with other men,
Speaker 2: like what the fuck? And then the people defending him
Speaker 2: I just simili like they're like, he's just made it clear.
Speaker 2: If that's not for you, what is the problem. The
Speaker 2: problem is you don't view women as autonomous, fucking human beings.
Speaker 2: Like the fact that you're okay with a man having
Speaker 2: it just sickens me.
Speaker 4: But also the key to Palmer, that's what I was just.
Speaker 1: Gonna say this joy they followed each other.
Speaker 4: Oh really Yeah.
Speaker 2: I was talking to a mutual friend about this yesterday.
Speaker 2: I was like, what's gonna happen? Like, she's a fucking badass,
Speaker 2: like the fact that she famous. We don't even know
Speaker 2: her name. It's Keky Palmer's baby daddy. We don't fucking
Speaker 2: know who you are. Ye, we don't give a shit
Speaker 2: about you. You're not the man of the house at all.
Speaker 2: We don't know your fucking name.
Speaker 1: So they previously they had, they been previously broken up
Speaker 1: before this.
Speaker 2: No, and one friend thinks it's a PR stunt because
Speaker 2: she had a speaking engagement that wasn't sold out and
Speaker 2: now it's sold out.
Speaker 5: Wow.
Speaker 3: I was.
Speaker 1: I was like, why would he publicly like shame her
Speaker 1: when we like her.
Speaker 4: We don't know who you.
Speaker 1: Are, right, Well, here's the background on that. In case
Speaker 1: you're a person that's not living on Instagram like us.
Speaker 1: Like basically, Kiki Palmer went to an Usher concert, she
Speaker 1: got brought up on stage.
Speaker 4: She's like looking really sexy. She's got this like sheer.
Speaker 1: Dress on with like pant panties and underwear underneath it,
Speaker 1: Like she looks hot. And her baby daddy, whose name
Speaker 1: is fucking Darius Jackson, I've never heard of him. He
Speaker 1: posts a tweet or something and goes like, wow, really,
Speaker 1: come on, you're a mother, like, and then everybody's out
Speaker 1: there being like, you know, it's totally normal for men
Speaker 1: to not want the mother of their children like out
Speaker 1: there clapping like their ass cheeks out everywhere.
Speaker 4: But like there's videos on.
Speaker 1: His Instagram of her clapping her booty, so it's like
Speaker 1: she didn't do she gave Palmer like that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, point like stop, this happens in port.
Speaker 1: But she can show off her body when you control it.
Speaker 1: She can show off her body when it's like a
Speaker 1: video you're taking and you post it, but not when
Speaker 1: she's on stage with Usher.
Speaker 4: It's because he.
Speaker 1: Felt probably like jealous and like she was, you know,
Speaker 1: because it was her and Usher like acting all cute
Speaker 1: or whatever, like flirty, and I just couldn't believe this
Speaker 1: guy too. So these two stories came out like in
Speaker 1: the same week, and everybody's just been going nuts, and
Speaker 1: it's so many men defending the thoughts of the men
Speaker 1: and so many women being like, what's wrong with you guys?
Speaker 4: Like, but this isn't even news.
Speaker 2: No, but there's women because I follow this podcast and
Speaker 2: they like there was like a story's war. But all
Speaker 2: these women too, are just like whatever he said, what
Speaker 2: do you wanted? If you didn't like it, you should
Speaker 2: have just left, Like you're acting like a victim, and
Speaker 2: this obsession with being a victim needs to stop. And
Speaker 2: it's like, no, he's a manipulative piece of shit. It's
Speaker 2: like we know men like this.
Speaker 1: It's like there are people that are charming and manipulative
Speaker 1: and vicious. You're like people are talking about other people
Speaker 1: like they're just average Joe Schmos, Like there are people
Speaker 1: who get off on this and this is what they're
Speaker 1: good at and they like to do this, and I
Speaker 1: don't understand why we're giving a pass to it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and the guys being like it's just a boundary. Like
Speaker 1: they're like, we wanted.
Speaker 2: Men to go to therapy because you know, they keep
Speaker 2: shooting people. But yeah, they've they've gotten more powerful with
Speaker 2: all this language because I know a psychopath that I
Speaker 2: had blocked for years, and a friend just reached out
Speaker 2: that he's continuing his same old tricks and he was screaming,
Speaker 2: you're a gaslighter at somebody, and it's like, yeah, they
Speaker 2: now all learned.
Speaker 4: All they had a language.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's telling the men I do believe that
Speaker 2: this thing that I own you now and no one
Speaker 2: else should look at your body because it's mine.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but then date another girl. I don't get it.
Speaker 1: How do you date a surfer and then tell her
Speaker 1: she can't surf with men or post photos of her surfing? Yeah,
Speaker 1: and the unstable woman stuff. That's like the guy Cyrus
Speaker 1: from Summer House Martha's Vineyard, Like he's the one. He's like,
Speaker 1: I don't want you out with your friends that are
Speaker 1: single out and about, and a single friend had to
Speaker 1: be like, do you not think I care about my
Speaker 1: own safety? Like why do you think I'm not looking
Speaker 1: out for myself these men?
Speaker 4: But he has a wife now or he.
Speaker 2: Has like a child now, and so that's another thing
Speaker 2: that this like other blogger was saying that Sarah's just
Speaker 2: like bitter and angry that he's now moved on and
Speaker 2: has a child. But the timing, like the timing of
Speaker 2: it is weird and like, you know.
Speaker 1: Like people are like these are private text messages. It's
Speaker 1: like she's sharing it to tell women like this is
Speaker 1: she shared it to be like this is not cool,
Speaker 1: Like this is not like this behavior might seem like
Speaker 1: it's a guy because I think some women could take
Speaker 1: that as like, oh wow, he's like jealous. He doesn't
Speaker 1: want like he really cares about me so much. He
Speaker 1: doesn't want anybody else to like have me or whatever,
Speaker 1: because like he's so obsessed with me.
Speaker 4: And it's like, no, this is.
Speaker 1: Controlling, bad behavior and couched in fucking boundaries and therapy speak.
Speaker 1: But the thing that a lot of people are saying
Speaker 1: about the kiky thing online is they're like, there's no
Speaker 1: ring on her finger, Like if you were married, this
Speaker 1: would be a different story. It's like, why would it
Speaker 1: be a different story if they were married. She can
Speaker 1: wear whatever the fuck she wants. She's geeky bomber. It's
Speaker 1: so fucked up.
Speaker 2: And like the podcast that I love that was arguing
Speaker 2: with this other woman who kept defending Jonah and the
Speaker 2: victim stuff that she also says she goes her posting
Speaker 2: this could save a lot of women's lives, like this
Speaker 2: is the beginning of something worse, like you know, like
Speaker 2: this is important to discuss.
Speaker 4: Wow and get out there.
Speaker 2: But he's always been aswerp like that, because that's the
Speaker 2: joke in the movie. This is the end he plays
Speaker 2: like a super nice, amazing, smiley person because it's so
Speaker 2: not like the rumors about him, and he's known as
Speaker 2: being like.
Speaker 4: A piece of shit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I bet he doesn't like look PA's in the eye.
Speaker 2: I bet he doesn't say thank you. I bet he's
Speaker 2: a bad tipper. I think the worst of him. If
Speaker 2: you have ever interacted with Jonahill, please dm us, please
Speaker 2: let us know, Please.
Speaker 4: Let us know.
Speaker 2: Even though I love super Bad, super Bad is the
Speaker 2: reason I got into comedy, Like that movie came out
Speaker 2: and inspired and changed the trajectory of my fucking life.
Speaker 2: Love super Bad, but I'll stick with fucking Seth Rogan
Speaker 2: for my stanship from that movie. Yeah, because it's the
Speaker 2: belief the chief it's the belief that you feel that
Speaker 2: a woman needs to change to fit what your insecurity is. Yes,
Speaker 2: and that's what's weird, the defending and the dudes being
Speaker 2: like whatever, that's just what he feels comfortable with.
Speaker 1: If you don't like that, leave And it's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: but the belief in isn't of itself contributes to inequality.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and the disrespect.
Speaker 1: Why are you not sharing posts and going, look what
Speaker 1: a badass my girlfriend is. Look at her fucking surfing.
Speaker 1: I could never do this, like you know, like it's
Speaker 1: just I can't. I can't get on board with this
Speaker 1: massage naw. But Kekey seems to be taking it with
Speaker 1: no problem. She's like, I'm a mother, she says, Stevie
Speaker 1: to the bullshit, I don't know what that means. Somebody
Speaker 1: tell me I'm gonna get sluded. I'm gonna get I'm
Speaker 1: gonna get flooded with the fucking dms. I just said, slutded.
Speaker 1: I hope you guys will let me up with these dms. Anyway,
Speaker 1: it's been a crazy it's been a crazy week of
Speaker 1: this celeb gossip.
Speaker 4: But I'm glad we got to talk about it together.
Speaker 1: If you also have not watched Survival of the Thickest yet,
Speaker 1: it's been out for two weeks, what are you fucking
Speaker 1: waiting for? Get on there with Netflix, baby, dm me,
Speaker 1: I'll give.
Speaker 2: You my password. Well, no, they've really cracked down on that.
Speaker 1: Oh is that true. I don't that's one of the
Speaker 1: only ones I don't share.
Speaker 4: But that's funny.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: No, they've cracked down now, like you have to pay
Speaker 2: more for each thing you shoe. Yeah, but they're not
Speaker 2: going to pay the writers. No, I don't know what
Speaker 2: the money is for though. It is not for the writers.
Speaker 2: And no, that's for sure. Oh, I forgot I had
Speaker 2: something to talk about. I knew I had something to
Speaker 2: talk about that did not involve Jonah Hill's dumbass.
Speaker 4: Okay, I you know the Idol.
Speaker 2: Everyone was saying it's terrible, it's terrible, it's terrible, it's
Speaker 2: bad for women, whatever. So I was like, I'm not
Speaker 2: going to watch like I have, I have a lot
Speaker 2: to watch. I don't need to watch it. I was
Speaker 2: out one night and someone that I really like was like, listen,
Speaker 2: it's so bad.
Speaker 4: It's good. It's so fun. It's so bad. It's good.
Speaker 2: And I couldn't sleep with the like the jet lag,
Speaker 2: I said, up till eight in the morning, I watched
Speaker 2: all five episodes.
Speaker 4: Oh no, and let me tell you, I loved it.
Speaker 4: I love it. I love it. I love it.
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 4: I think it's because.
Speaker 1: If no one told me it's not us doing a
Speaker 1: feminist rant at the beginning of our podcast and then
Speaker 1: you loving the idol.
Speaker 4: No, it's true. I contain multitudes.
Speaker 1: The people that I have told this too are like, oh,
Speaker 1: are you a contrarian?
Speaker 4: I go, no, I'm actually quite basic.
Speaker 2: I believe I'm very a part of the popular culture.
Speaker 2: I don't think I would feel this way if it
Speaker 2: wasn't so panned. But because it was so panned, I
Speaker 2: expected the worst thing ever, that was so bad I'd
Speaker 2: be laughing at it, And instead I was like, I'm
Speaker 2: into it, and the first episode is really good and
Speaker 2: I learned some stuff from it, and I like the
Speaker 2: comment and she is also the sexiest woman alive. Wow,
Speaker 2: And it was so funny. A friend was like, let
Speaker 2: me check. I'm what does she look like Miley Cyrus?
Speaker 2: And I go, wow, you really clocked me. You are
Speaker 2: a person that understands me.
Speaker 4: She looks a little like Kiera Nightly too to me. Oh,
Speaker 4: not to me.
Speaker 2: The other person she feels like to me is who's
Speaker 2: the other whatever? I can't even think of it. Probably
Speaker 2: Kate Mau, but her mom looks like Kate Moss. But anyways,
Speaker 2: the Weekend is a bad actor, like same with Harry
Speaker 2: Styles in that other movie. It's like, why can't we
Speaker 2: just have a real actor, like that would be fair,
Speaker 2: Like they're past, they're do fine. But it's also what's cool.
Speaker 2: So it's about the music business and industry. And I
Speaker 2: love Hollywood, I love pop stars, I love rich I
Speaker 2: love sexy, so I like that element of it. Rachel
Speaker 2: Senate is so good in it. But also the Weekend
Speaker 2: is like a cult torture guy. He's like a bad
Speaker 2: he's a criminal. Yeah, he's a former pimp. So it
Speaker 2: also does something for my like it reminded me of
Speaker 2: the Stolen Youth documentary about the Sara Lawrence sex call.
Speaker 2: He's like a sex cult leader, like he's a like
Speaker 2: he's psycho. And the message that Sam Levinson people like
Speaker 2: really hated the meat, like his messaging, but I don't
Speaker 2: think it's good enough to get the message out. So
Speaker 2: the message isn't that clear to me?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Yeah, And the ending is bad.
Speaker 2: And also it's like it was so bad they only
Speaker 2: did five episodes instead of six, and it's like.
Speaker 4: Just give us all the episodes, and I don't want
Speaker 4: to ruin this.
Speaker 2: The only like glaring plot hole to me was in
Speaker 2: one scene Choicevon is being horrifically tortured, and then the
Speaker 2: next episode he's fine, He's just like friends and down,
Speaker 2: not wanting this kid. He gets like he gets tortured
Speaker 2: and assaulted, and then the next day he's like friends
Speaker 2: with everyone.
Speaker 4: Okay, we're oh.
Speaker 1: God, we're getting the twenty five. I met Choiceevon once
Speaker 1: at drag Race. He's a sweet, sweet person.
Speaker 2: Well I didn't meet him, but my funny moment was
Speaker 2: he was at Jumbo's clown room. But he is so
Speaker 2: frail that he was his dollar bills weren't flying all
Speaker 2: the way to the stage stop so but he was
Speaker 2: behind me, So I kept helping grab the dollars and
Speaker 2: throwing him to the women.
Speaker 1: You were doing like assists, yeah, like layups. He wasn't
Speaker 1: a pro at throwing the dollars.
Speaker 4: Yet, Oh my god, amazing.
Speaker 2: The fashion is just so sexy. It is gratuitous. There's
Speaker 2: like extra nipples when they shouldn't be. There's a straight
Speaker 2: up fingering till she comes seen while everyone at her
Speaker 2: work is watching and not into it.
Speaker 4: Like it is fucked up. But like that. First, I
Speaker 4: liked it, I didn't hate it. Sorry. There you have it, guys.
Speaker 4: Lisa's review of the idol. We have to get started.
Speaker 1: Casey just gave us the twenty minute Flag, which is
Speaker 1: our extra.
Speaker 4: We really have to start Flag.
Speaker 2: Also, this episode has a lot of language that is
Speaker 2: outdated in our culture and society, and I did my
Speaker 2: best to use terms that are appropriate and correct. But
Speaker 2: I did quote certain characters that speak in a way
Speaker 2: I would not, So there's a mix smash of that
Speaker 2: in the episode as I recap, And you know, I
Speaker 2: did the best I could. I don't want anyone to
Speaker 2: think there wasn't a lot of thought and care put
Speaker 2: into it. If there is a lapse or a moment
Speaker 2: where I don't say something right, that's you know.
Speaker 4: I fucked up. But there was a lot of care.
Speaker 2: Put into how I and when I said the words
Speaker 2: first not so.
Speaker 4: Yes, just a little heads up going into it.
Speaker 1: I don't want to read any angry emails or anything rude.
Speaker 1: If you have a helpful message for next time, that
Speaker 1: is great, yeah, but any attitude unacceptable. Yes, it's always
Speaker 1: a little tough to go back into season one. We
Speaker 1: know that, but go to Thats Messed Up live dot com.
Speaker 1: Get tickets to see us live, and please enjoy today's episode.
Speaker 4: All Right, we got a season one baby.
Speaker 2: That's exciting, you know, because if you're a longtime listener
Speaker 2: or you're just joining us, it's hard to find season one.
Speaker 2: You know, guests people, this was over twenty years ago.
Speaker 2: It's like, it is really difficult. So it is always
Speaker 2: a treat and a joy to be able to go
Speaker 2: down into the season one archives. This episode is called
Speaker 2: The Third Guy. We start with a knock knock. A
Speaker 2: man in a base jacket is entering an apartment. He's like, hello, Hello,
Speaker 2: and it's a very lived in place.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of stuff on the door hooks, the
Speaker 2: door is worn out, the yellow paint magnets on a fridge.
Speaker 2: Someone I think has lived here for a long time.
Speaker 2: And he's like, hey, you left the door open.
Speaker 1: And he's creeping around and he's like missus Bernstein and
Speaker 1: he passes bookshelves and he keeps exploring and then we
Speaker 1: hear an oh my god, and the place is torn apart.
Speaker 4: Things are thrown everywhere. It's a mess.
Speaker 2: And he continues, it's a big ass apartment and then
Speaker 2: uh oh, we find missus Bernstein. She is tied up
Speaker 2: by the wrists with pantyhose on a bed frame. She's
Speaker 2: in her nineties, her legs are open, and he runs off.
Speaker 4: It's very graphic, like it's very Season one.
Speaker 1: They were really trying to get us, like they were like,
Speaker 1: this show is gritty, this show is edgy. You are
Speaker 1: going to see an old lady tied to a bed
Speaker 1: like dead, legs splayed open like it. Yeah, like season one.
Speaker 1: I mean, the pilot episode is Balls getting cut off
Speaker 1: by a warlord. So yeah, they started strong.
Speaker 2: We cut to Benson and Stabler and a whole mess
Speaker 2: of cops investigating, and they're like this is too much
Speaker 2: of a mess for one guy. But like they haven't
Speaker 2: seen my apartment yet, you know what I mean. So
Speaker 2: they walk in inside and they're like not good. And
Speaker 2: then a man we don't see it. All we hear
Speaker 2: is guy ejaculated on her thigh.
Speaker 4: We're in the cold open. Okay, so.
Speaker 2: This is wild, but there is an ejaculate on this
Speaker 2: old woman's thigh, Like we don't even hear a hello.
Speaker 2: He's not like, hey, guys rough crime today, who get red.
Speaker 2: There's not even a good morning. Did you get coffee?
Speaker 2: It's straight ejaculate like SVU does not fuck around, and
Speaker 2: so what's you know, Like, we don't get a time
Speaker 2: of death. Nothing straight to seamen. So Benson burrows her brow, burrows, furrows.
Speaker 2: She's not burrowing anywhere, so she's furrowing her borrow. And
Speaker 2: Benson says the attacker was unprepared and the rape was
Speaker 2: an afters thought since like he didn't have equipment. He
Speaker 2: used pantyhose to tie her up, so you usually would
Speaker 2: bring rope or something like that.
Speaker 4: And Stable's like, gross, how.
Speaker 1: Could you think of like doing that to someone that
Speaker 1: looks like your grandma?
Speaker 4: And this is gonna be a theme.
Speaker 2: Stabler is just mostly grossed out by her age, like yeah,
Speaker 2: not the crime.
Speaker 4: He just keeps me like, but she's old.
Speaker 2: So we have credits done, done, and we're back and
Speaker 2: it's JK Simmons, JAK Simmons. He's the season one bed
Speaker 2: Huang and Stablers walking away from each other, and they're
Speaker 2: not talking and walking what I'm used to. They're like
Speaker 2: opposite directed, like they're walking in opposite direction. So it's
Speaker 2: a little shocking. It's not a walk and talk. Cragan
Speaker 2: is immediately accusatory to Stable. He's like, why the fuck
Speaker 2: did you bring in the shrink? And he hates Skoda.
Speaker 2: It's like wild and so Simmons and Scota will be
Speaker 2: interchangeable as and I will sum times call him the
Speaker 2: low peanut eminem Ah. He was famously the voice of
Speaker 2: the eminem for a very long time. So Stabler is
Speaker 2: like he's the best, and Cragan's like, yeah, in his
Speaker 2: head he is, fuck that guy. And so there's gonna
Speaker 2: be a lot of bald versus bald in this episode.
Speaker 1: They I mean, we never get to the bottom of this.
Speaker 1: Why does he hate Scotas so much? It's so weird,
Speaker 1: It's not I think it's like, you know, I think
Speaker 1: it's part of the whole vibe in the beginning of
Speaker 1: SV where they hate the shrinks. Oh that's right, because
Speaker 1: they're like they did it. There's no excuses, right, like
Speaker 1: no mental you're right, you're right, yeah, why don't you
Speaker 1: go work for the defense? Yeah? Oh so everybody that
Speaker 1: plays a video game is gonna kill someone now, Like yeah,
Speaker 1: they don't want to hear the little psychological explanations, got it.
Speaker 2: So Cragan's like wants to wait to bring him in,
Speaker 2: and he's like, can we just pause, and Sailor goes
Speaker 2: too late, already brought him in. So now it's circle
Speaker 2: time and Stabler's in the the middle leading the meeting,
Speaker 2: and it is that iced tea is not here, like
Speaker 2: it is confusing for me. So the woman's name is
Speaker 2: Leonora Bernstein. She had tea and toast for breakfast, and
Speaker 2: then she went to the window to feed the bird
Speaker 2: feeder and it was like too cold, and so she
Speaker 2: didn't close the window, but like crawled back into bed
Speaker 2: to heat up a little bit, and some low life
Speaker 2: climbed in through the window, tied, gagged, robbed, and raped.
Speaker 2: So Lenora is seventy two, she's a widow and her
Speaker 2: only son is already dead, and her whole address book
Speaker 2: is filled with obituary cards and funeral info, like all
Speaker 2: of her friends are dead as well, and Stablers still
Speaker 2: can't get over the fact, like what kind of sicko
Speaker 2: would rape an old lady?
Speaker 4: And JK. Simmons is standing.
Speaker 2: There kind of hovering, and they're like, who would do this?
Speaker 2: And he goes, well, I think someone's sexually inexperienced. Late
Speaker 2: teens early twenties a social misfit and someone that does
Speaker 2: intermittent like menial work, and of course hates his mother.
Speaker 2: And Craigan's like, can it I want to hear from
Speaker 2: the purp how he feels about his mother. Why don't
Speaker 2: we get to work instead, and so he traffic cops
Speaker 2: everyone to get to work. You know, let's canvas the
Speaker 2: neighborhood and let's head to the Emmy for some info.
Speaker 2: So wow, rest in peace. But Lance Reddick is the
Speaker 2: Emmy in this episode and we are lucky to be
Speaker 2: covering it, and he's wearing scrubs and it's like a
Speaker 2: really different energy. This is like Carrie Bradshaw's apartment in
Speaker 2: season one. It's like, what's going on here? Yeah, like
Speaker 2: why is there an X ray machine?
Speaker 4: Like what?
Speaker 2: So Lance Reddick lets them know that she had a
Speaker 2: heart attack. She was so scared she had a heart attack.
Speaker 2: So then Munch is like, oh, so technically she died
Speaker 2: of natural causes, and it's like, shut up.
Speaker 4: This isn't a philosophy class. This is like, this is
Speaker 4: real life.
Speaker 2: Stop like so much Munch from day one, and Jeffries
Speaker 2: is like, shut up, Munch, this is obviously murder too.
Speaker 4: Like this isn't just natural causes.
Speaker 1: And we hear about Volvo bruising, but no internal tearing.
Speaker 4: So this is like so fucking graphic.
Speaker 2: And they said that he was like too flustered and
Speaker 2: overly stimulated and that's why he came so fast, and
Speaker 2: maybe that's why he wasn't able to cause more damage
Speaker 2: to the body. Benson and Stabler are doing a very
Speaker 2: slow walking talk and they're talking with a neighbor and
Speaker 2: I'm obsessed with her.
Speaker 4: She's in the movie in her shoes.
Speaker 2: She's also I don't know if you remember missus Cohen
Speaker 2: and Sex and the City, like when Aiden is trying
Speaker 2: to she buys the apartment next door and they want
Speaker 2: to start construction and then Lady Cohen, like Carrie, helps
Speaker 2: her down the stairs and she goes, I'm not leaving
Speaker 2: for thirty days.
Speaker 4: Read the contract. Yeah, I remember that, lady. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And so Stabler is carrying her brown paper bag groceries
Speaker 2: and I'm obsessed. And so the scoop is that you know,
Speaker 2: she had jewels and she would wear them to temple,
Speaker 2: and so he's writing down what kind of jewels and
Speaker 2: old Lady Cohen has a surprise and she goes no, no, no,
Speaker 2: she sold all her real good jewels before the robbery.
Speaker 2: She needed money. She only had costume jewels left, like
Speaker 2: all her jewelry was costume jewelry. It wasn't real. So
Speaker 2: they go directly to a pawn shop and there's a
Speaker 2: wall of violins. I guess people love a violin and
Speaker 2: it's a Jeffreys Munch duo and they ask about a
Speaker 2: piece of jewelry and the dude's like, listen, this is
Speaker 2: worth nine ninety nine.
Speaker 4: Why would I want this trash? And they're like, yeah, no,
Speaker 4: we get it, you wouldn't take it.
Speaker 2: But someone came in to try and he goes, I
Speaker 2: don't deal in stolen goods, and it's like, we get it,
Speaker 2: you're apawn man with integrity, but did anybody try to
Speaker 2: do it? It seems like an Abbot and Castello routine.
Speaker 2: It's just like, we get you wouldn't do it, but
Speaker 2: did they someone try it? And so finally he goes,
Speaker 2: two kids did it. But he doesn't have his their
Speaker 2: info because he didn't do the sale because it's illegal,
Speaker 2: so like why would he have their info?
Speaker 4: But he does describe them.
Speaker 2: They're Colombian or Dominicans something like that late teens. One
Speaker 2: was tall with a fade and the other one was
Speaker 2: short with a hand tattoo of Barb's wire across the
Speaker 2: fingers and a dagger with blood drops. And he's gonna
Speaker 2: work with a composite artist. But he's not happy about
Speaker 2: helping the police at all. So they go to check
Speaker 2: with the guy from earlier in the beige outfit that
Speaker 2: found Missus Bernstein, and he's ready.
Speaker 4: To help out. He's really happy, he's hyped to help.
Speaker 2: He's like, and you know what, I would even lie
Speaker 2: for you whoever you want me to id you tell
Speaker 2: me and I'll do it. And they're like, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: we're not regular cops. We're cool cops. You don't have
Speaker 2: to lie for us. And he's just like so upset
Speaker 2: at the crime and what happened to the poor lady.
Speaker 2: And they're like, well, what about your partner, Jimmy, And
Speaker 2: he goes, well, he was down in the truck. Maybe
Speaker 2: he's got some scoop. So there are tanks everywhere. I'm like,
Speaker 2: what is this business? Is HVAC medical supplies whatever? So
Speaker 2: you know they're delivery people with supplies, And so we
Speaker 2: go to Jimmy and it's a man and a beanie
Speaker 2: and it's our friend of the pod, Dennis O'Hare love him,
Speaker 2: love him, and he's an sv returner. He played a
Speaker 2: priest in the episode that we covered, a very like
Speaker 2: Christmas sex crimes episode, and he's wearing a beanie. How
Speaker 2: hipster men do rolled above the ears? And I hate
Speaker 2: it so much. A hat is for ear covering to
Speaker 2: stay warm. Why would you roll it above your ears?
Speaker 2: It's really It disgusts me. But Jimmy is also down
Speaker 2: to help, and he loves the quality of the art
Speaker 2: of the sketches. He's like, wow, these sketches are nice,
Speaker 2: and he recognizes the people. So Jeffries and Munch are
Speaker 2: on the case and they're talking to a curly haired
Speaker 2: girl that is borrowing Stabler's aesthetic in a way.
Speaker 4: It's like a denim jacket with.
Speaker 2: White like sheeps for lining and classic Stabler classic. And
Speaker 2: she says one of the dudes looks like Carlos, the
Speaker 2: other one's Alfonso. And she directs them to the apartment
Speaker 2: right next to the bodega, and she says they sit
Speaker 2: on the stoop all fucking day, hassling people. And then
Speaker 2: she calls them Pendejo's, so that's fun. And the synagogue
Speaker 2: is right next to the bodega, so they probably saw
Speaker 2: her every week, like with all these like so and
Speaker 2: so jewels, and the boys are hanging on the stoop
Speaker 2: backwards hat Fedora vibes drug deals and Munch shows a
Speaker 2: badge and announces their cops like so far across the street,
Speaker 2: giving them ample time to run. I don't know why
Speaker 2: so early, but Jeff gets one of them. Maloney and
Speaker 2: Benson pop out of somewhere and catch the others, and
Speaker 2: then Munch finds a bottle of pills in one of
Speaker 2: their pockets and it's a diuretic and they stole like
Speaker 2: actual pills, like not fun pills, and so they do
Speaker 2: have evidence that it's Lenora's pills. So they bring the
Speaker 2: boys in and both of them look familiar as hell,
Speaker 2: and they've been working for like twenty thirty years in
Speaker 2: this business.
Speaker 4: It's really incredible.
Speaker 2: So Rick Gonzalez I recognize immediately from old school, and
Speaker 2: he's on organized crime as Detective Bobby Rays and he's
Speaker 2: a cutie. And then we have Eugene Byrd he's the
Speaker 2: other one and he was like on Ghost writer in
Speaker 2: the nineties.
Speaker 4: He's incredible. He's just like, you.
Speaker 2: Know his face yeah, And they obviously split the boys
Speaker 2: up immediately, and Benson and Stabler are with Ricky and
Speaker 2: he's like, ask Carlos, I mean with Alfonso. I don't
Speaker 2: know where I came up with the name Ricky, oh,
Speaker 2: because his name is okay, but now I know. And
Speaker 2: they're like, honey, we will ask Carlos. Don't you worry,
Speaker 2: And then it's like you little freak attacking old ladies,
Speaker 2: and he just keeps saying talk to Carlos, and he
Speaker 2: keeps looking down, and when Stabler gets super close to
Speaker 2: his face, he's like, you raped her, and he goes,
Speaker 2: that's sick. I didn't rap no old lady, and Stabler
Speaker 2: smiles and says, fine, we'll go talk to Carlos. And
Speaker 2: Carlos is way more confident. He's napping in a bucket hat.
Speaker 2: They push him, he lies, he denies the rape. Stabler
Speaker 2: gets close to his face too, talks about semen, and
Speaker 2: he giggles and says, go ahead, I didn't rape nobody.
Speaker 2: I'll give you all the semen you want, and he
Speaker 2: has a big grin on his face. So they go
Speaker 2: back to the other one, and they're like, well, Carlos
Speaker 2: is giving us his semen, you're giving us your semen.
Speaker 4: He's like, fine, I'll give you my semen too, and so.
Speaker 2: They all get DNA tests and suspender Kraagan meets Benson
Speaker 2: and Stabler and they're like, they're both gave up their semen,
Speaker 2: so I don't think it's gonna match, and Stabler's like, well,
Speaker 2: there's probably a third guy. Hello the episode title, and
Speaker 2: so a blonde girl and a bob with a straight
Speaker 2: across bangs wants walks in in a trench coat and
Speaker 2: by girl, I mean a grown woman who is a lawyer,
Speaker 2: and she's.
Speaker 4: Like, what the fuck?
Speaker 2: So we have these two and who the fuck is
Speaker 2: this third John Doe and Saber's like, well, we got
Speaker 2: the DNA back and neither of them is a match,
Speaker 2: but they did Robin ransacks, so we have them on
Speaker 2: that and she's she's pissed. So she's like, so you're
Speaker 2: going on some fishing expedition and Craigan's like, yeah, we're
Speaker 2: sex crimes, not robbery, so of course we're fishing for
Speaker 2: the rapists. And she's like, okay, but I just wanted
Speaker 2: a heads up, and they're like, we're trying our best.
Speaker 2: So the boys aren't giving up any names, so why
Speaker 2: don't they like start doing bargaining chip you know, play,
Speaker 2: So they start playing games with jail time and charges
Speaker 2: for a name, and the interrogation games begin.
Speaker 4: Why did I say games so many times?
Speaker 5: Haha?
Speaker 2: So Carlos is the leader obviously, and Alfonzo does whatever
Speaker 2: he says. So they're like, if you don't help us,
Speaker 2: we'll find like a good deal and then you're gonna
Speaker 2: do the max and you're gonna have a cavity search
Speaker 2: have fun. And so now we jump straight to Stephen
Speaker 2: Foster High School and the principal of the school is
Speaker 2: legend Michelle Hurst. She's in five episodes of SVU, all
Speaker 2: different characters, Claudette and Orange is the New Black, and
Speaker 2: she's in an episod sort of Sex in the City.
Speaker 2: She tells Samantha, like, girl, you don't have aids, but
Speaker 2: we're a condom and so that's a bingo I mean
Speaker 2: to do SVU. Orange is a New Black an Sex
Speaker 2: in the City. We're a fan bitch. Also Stepmom Broad
Speaker 2: City Francis hat like I'm obsessed with her and she goes,
Speaker 2: warrant please. They're like, we'll get you a warrant later,
Speaker 2: and she goes, okay, good enough for me.
Speaker 4: I don't give a shit.
Speaker 2: So but she says they actually did not skip school
Speaker 2: on the fourteenth.
Speaker 4: They were suspended already.
Speaker 2: So now they're looking like who are the friends and
Speaker 2: they're like, well, there is one friend, but you'll actually
Speaker 2: need a warrant. And they're like why is he someone's
Speaker 2: son or something? And she's like, well, so she explains
Speaker 2: that him and Carlos have history but not anymore, that
Speaker 2: he cleaned up his act and it's not who you're
Speaker 2: looking for. And they're like, well we'll decide that. Can
Speaker 2: we just get a name? And I guess she doesn't
Speaker 2: care about the warrant anymore, and she's spills. She's like,
Speaker 2: it's Emmanuel Clemente and he was not in school that day.
Speaker 2: So Munch and Jeffreys approach him and he's practicing pitching
Speaker 2: in a tall bee like he's hiding a little gerbil
Speaker 2: in his head and he's throwing a ball to the
Speaker 2: graffiti wall and they accused him and he's like, I
Speaker 2: wasn't there, and they bully him a bit, and there
Speaker 2: and he's like, listen, I've not hung out with Carlos
Speaker 2: in a year. So he did school because he says
Speaker 2: that his little sister got in over her head if
Speaker 2: they know what he's saying, and Munch's like no, but
Speaker 2: so basically he took her to the methadone clinic that day,
Speaker 2: and they don't believe him. His eyebrows are manicured and
Speaker 2: he's looking good, and Benson and Stabler are frustrated at
Speaker 2: the desks, and then Jefferies and Munch walk in empty
Speaker 2: handed because they did confirm that he was at the
Speaker 2: methadone clinic with his sister and he was not the
Speaker 2: third man at the crime. So what's gonna happen now?
Speaker 2: So now Craigan, JK. Simmons, the bald boys walk in
Speaker 2: and they're like, we want Scoop. I guess we have
Speaker 2: to play some more mind tricks with these boys. So
Speaker 2: one's gonna get the max and one's gonna get off.
Speaker 2: And Carlos is a sociopath, JK. Simmons says, and Alfonso's
Speaker 2: scared and a follower, So who do you go for?
Speaker 4: Like socio or feelings boy?
Speaker 2: And so they end up pushing our boy Alfonso, and
Speaker 2: he's they visit him in jail and he's like beat
Speaker 2: up and it's really sad.
Speaker 1: I mean, he clearly commits crimes, but like I don't
Speaker 1: like him with a black guy.
Speaker 2: And Carlos is like, I'll be fine, and they are like,
Speaker 2: stop trusting the sociopath.
Speaker 4: He will turn on you.
Speaker 2: And they explain like, you can avoid jail time by
Speaker 2: helping us find the rapist. There's only a deal for
Speaker 2: one of you, and he's like, well, can Carlos get
Speaker 2: the deal too?
Speaker 4: Very frustrating. I'm sure this is.
Speaker 2: How parents feel all the time, Like with kids, yeah, followers,
Speaker 2: it's like, what the fuck are you doing? And so
Speaker 2: the lawyer whispers in his ear and he's like, I
Speaker 2: just want to think about it, and Saylor brings the
Speaker 2: table and goes, what.
Speaker 4: The fuck do you want to think about?
Speaker 2: Like this is the biggest decision of your life, Like
Speaker 2: you know, I don't understand what you're doing. Your whole
Speaker 2: life is either fifteen years max jail time or you
Speaker 2: get all free.
Speaker 4: What the fuck do you have to think about?
Speaker 2: But they're gonna give him twelve hours to think about it,
Speaker 2: and then it goes to Carlos and you know he's
Speaker 2: gonna take it. And then we cut to the next day.
Speaker 2: Benson and Stable arrive at the office and they report
Speaker 2: that Alfonso wants the deal but doesn't want to screw
Speaker 2: over Carlos. Stabler calls him an idiot. Munch says Carlos
Speaker 2: would sell out his mother for half a pack of
Speaker 2: marborough mar Marlborough's, Marlborough's.
Speaker 4: How do you say it? Marlboroughs? Why is that so hard?
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 1: It is a little bit of a It is a Marlboroughs.
Speaker 1: It's like a little bit of a Burrows. Sounds like
Speaker 1: Marble's in your mouth.
Speaker 4: Ultra lights. Please, let's go to the nightclub.
Speaker 2: So the DA called and there's a taker for the deal,
Speaker 2: but it's Carlos, and they're like fuck. So they go
Speaker 2: to meet him and they go this deal was for Alfonso,
Speaker 2: and he goes yeah, And Alfonso didn't know what to do,
Speaker 2: so he came to his good friend me and I
Speaker 2: advised against him. So the detectives are bombed. They don't
Speaker 2: want to like give a deal to the psychopath. So
Speaker 2: the bangs Ada says the deal is contingent on an
Speaker 2: arrest and he has to allocute. Carlos doesn't know what
Speaker 2: allocute means, and so his lawyer whispers it to him,
Speaker 2: and he has no issues saying everything.
Speaker 4: So he starts talking.
Speaker 2: He's like, yeap me and Alfonso climbed through the window,
Speaker 2: but he thought all would cry and bail, but they
Speaker 2: did end up doing it and ransacking the place. But
Speaker 2: then they were super pissed they couldn't find anything, so
Speaker 2: they trashed the apartment and then there was a noise
Speaker 2: that scared them and it was a cuckoo clock, and
Speaker 2: so they Alfonso ran out and then Carlos chased him
Speaker 2: down the stairs to catch him, and Stabler's like, so
Speaker 2: you left the third guy upstairs? And he smiles and says,
Speaker 2: I didn't leave nobody, and so they keep pushing him
Speaker 2: and he chuckles.
Speaker 4: And he says that he dragged Alfonso.
Speaker 2: Sorry, I asked back up there, and when they went
Speaker 2: back up, there was a white guy there in a
Speaker 2: beige uniform, and so sailors like, hold up, so none
Speaker 2: of you raped her, And Carlos continues that the guy
Speaker 2: was carrying a clipboard logo on the pocket and he
Speaker 2: walked in the door that they left open, so Sailor's like,
Speaker 2: hold on, you're telling me the delivery man raped her,
Speaker 2: and he says, yeah, how sick is that?
Speaker 4: Why? And then it's like, but why wouldn't you just
Speaker 4: tell on the Stranger Days?
Speaker 1: I know, I know that's what I don't get. That's
Speaker 1: like a hole to me. Yeah, well, I know everyone's
Speaker 1: like trained to like not talk to the cops and
Speaker 1: fuck the police, but like, you have why do you
Speaker 1: have loyalty to this white guy?
Speaker 4: Yeah? Yeah, he gives a shit.
Speaker 2: So they're at the precinct chatting and they're like, damn,
Speaker 2: so the good citizen helper did it. So this happened
Speaker 2: at nine thirty according to like the cuckoo clock noise,
Speaker 2: but stand in call nine one one for another twenty
Speaker 2: three minutes. So this is plausible, But I also don't
Speaker 2: want Alfonso to spend fifteen years in jail for the ransacking. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so Craigan is like, we're talking about the dude who
Speaker 2: called for help and tried to save her and stayed
Speaker 2: for ems. That's wild and JK. Simmons is like, yeah,
Speaker 2: that's classic hero syndrome. Start a fire and then you
Speaker 2: help the firefighters take care of it and Munsch is like,
Speaker 2: oh god, I call it schmuck syndrome, and Carlos is
Speaker 2: playing games, and then the yellow eminem is like, I
Speaker 2: still feel them is for a less mature offender, So
Speaker 2: I think we should go back to work. And now
Speaker 2: there's even more problems because now Alfonso's so desperate for
Speaker 2: a deal, he fucks up and he knows it. And
Speaker 2: Jeffries also adds, well, there's more trouble because Stan's record
Speaker 2: shows that he's spent time in sing sing for robbery,
Speaker 2: but no sexual assaults. So they're like, maybe you know
Speaker 2: this chatty Cathy told to sell me and we can
Speaker 2: get some scoop about Stan as a person. So the
Speaker 2: sell me is out of jail, and so they visit
Speaker 2: the apartment of Johnny Schmidt and Johnny is like, Stan
Speaker 2: is so annoying. Oh my god. He never shuts up.
Speaker 2: He talked about all these female exploits. He was the
Speaker 2: joke of the jail and everyone called him Stan the
Speaker 2: man in a shady way and out.
Speaker 4: Of the blue.
Speaker 2: Stan actually called him a few months ago and he
Speaker 2: went on and on about this cush amazing job as
Speaker 2: a pharmaceutical delivery dude, and how he's like boffin half
Speaker 2: the women on his route and boffin.
Speaker 4: Boffin is a new.
Speaker 1: Term for I've never heard this term, but boffing. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know this term. Oh yeah, I know that term.
Speaker 1: That's a that's like a fucking dorky term. I was
Speaker 1: for fucking yeah same boff yeah, boffed like that.
Speaker 4: I think it's old and no one.
Speaker 2: Says that, yeah, And so they pressured him to like
Speaker 2: give more scoop on his sex and rape behavior, and
Speaker 2: Jimmy says he talks about sex and women all the
Speaker 2: time and making special deliveries and they ask about Bernstein
Speaker 2: and he's like what about her? And they're like, well,
Speaker 2: did he make any special deliveries to her? And he's like, nah,
Speaker 2: I don't really know, and then he runs to get
Speaker 2: the paper and they think he's lying. So they agree,
Speaker 2: like we got to just talk to Stan. So Benson
Speaker 2: and Stabler take on the task, and Stan is so
Speaker 2: happy to see them that he's ready to chat and
Speaker 2: they're like, we got to go to the station, and
Speaker 2: they rip him out of his van and they take
Speaker 2: him in and he looks worried. So we cut to
Speaker 2: interrogation and he's explaining to Benson and Stabler and he's
Speaker 2: like tired about this. He's like, for the last time,
Speaker 2: I never did any customers. And they're like, but you're
Speaker 2: staying the man baby. He's like, yeah, yeah, no, I know.
Speaker 2: I like to brag. Okay, I lie and so he's like, yes,
Speaker 2: I'm a liar and they're like, yeah, you are a liar.
Speaker 2: You fucking lied about being a fellon. He's like, well, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm not stupid. No one would hire me. I have
Speaker 2: to lie about that. I got to get a job.
Speaker 1: And they're like, and you raped missus Bernstein and he
Speaker 1: denies it.
Speaker 2: He's shocked by the accusation. He said, I never touched her,
Speaker 2: and then Maloney quickly goes, but you gave her CPR.
Speaker 4: How'd you do that? And so they kind of got him.
Speaker 2: So finally he begins to spill and he's like, Okay,
Speaker 2: I didn't give CPR.
Speaker 4: I didn't even find her.
Speaker 2: They're like, you're lying again, and they're like, we have witnesses.
Speaker 4: We know you're lying. And he's like, you have this
Speaker 4: all wrong. They didn't see me.
Speaker 2: They saw Jimmy, the guy with the beanie, and they're
Speaker 2: like you want us to believe you're covering for Jimmy.
Speaker 4: And he's like, no, I'm covering for me.
Speaker 2: So he finally has to confess that, like he's supposed
Speaker 2: to make the deliveries because Jimmy is not certified to
Speaker 2: hook up the tanks, but when the building has no elevators, like,
Speaker 2: he makes Jimmy walk it up. And so Jimmy was
Speaker 2: taking forever, so he decided to like go up there,
Speaker 2: and the new tank was by the door, so he's like,
Speaker 2: what's going on? And then he saw her tied up,
Speaker 2: and then he saw Jimmy in the bathroom freaking out,
Speaker 2: and he assumed it was because he saw what I
Speaker 2: just saw and it was like truly shocking, and I
Speaker 2: was shocked and we were both shocked. And he likes attention,
Speaker 2: and so he decided to like it's a win win.
Speaker 2: He's like, you know, I broke the rules of the job,
Speaker 2: so I'm covering that up and then I get to
Speaker 2: be in the papers and a hero and I love that.
Speaker 2: And he pleads, he's like, I'm not lying, I'm promising you,
Speaker 2: and he goes, well, we have witnesses, so perfect, let's
Speaker 2: do a fucking lineup and we'll do it. So now
Speaker 2: they line everyone up and Carlos comes in. He's like,
Speaker 2: what the fuck are you guys playing games? Like, He's
Speaker 2: like in a mood, but you're sitting in jail with
Speaker 2: nothing to do. Why are you so mad for a
Speaker 2: field trip to do a lineup? And he's just like
Speaker 2: mad that none of the men are who he saw
Speaker 2: and he thinks it's a trick. So then they send
Speaker 2: in the next group and immediately he goes, finally, that's
Speaker 2: the fucking guy. And they're like, who is it, and
Speaker 2: he says it's number one, and then he calls him
Speaker 2: that Gilligan's Island looking dude, and that's Jimmy and they're
Speaker 2: like are you sure and he's like yeah, and I'm
Speaker 2: free right, and they're like if the arrest happens, and
Speaker 2: Craigan is shook. So now it's coffee time for Benson
Speaker 2: and Stabler and Munch and sadly like, we also find
Speaker 2: out that she had two fucking heart attacks, not just one.
Speaker 2: And at first I was like, do we even need
Speaker 2: to know that? But we do because so the first
Speaker 2: one was an hour before the second one, so I think,
Speaker 2: like she had you know the boys entered the apartment
Speaker 2: was the first one and she could have lived, and
Speaker 2: then the second one was probably because of the rape.
Speaker 4: So they do have to cut Carlos loose.
Speaker 2: So it's a big mistake because them they did cause
Speaker 2: the first heart attack, and she wouldn't have died from
Speaker 2: the second heart attack if it wasn't for the first one.
Speaker 2: So they could have like kind of convicted all of
Speaker 2: them or charged all of them. But Carlo's big mistake.
Speaker 2: He is loose, and so now they have to go
Speaker 2: to try to get Jimmy and they're like, you understand
Speaker 2: your rights. He's like, fuck yeah, let's do this. So
Speaker 2: Jimmy's an interrogation with Benson and Stabler. He admits to
Speaker 2: taking the tank up because Stan has a bad back.
Speaker 2: And then the door was opened a little bit and
Speaker 2: he noticed shit was unusual and really messy, so he
Speaker 2: was gonna help clean up. And then he giggles a little,
Speaker 2: and then he called for her but she didn't answer,
Speaker 2: and then he found her in the bedroom. And he
Speaker 2: has no problem like saying all of this. He's very agreeable, honest,
Speaker 2: very childlike quality. As Craigan would say in the show
Speaker 2: Slow and then they ask in what condition did you
Speaker 2: find her? And he doesn't want to answer, but she
Speaker 2: looked nice wearing her nightie, and then he giggles a
Speaker 2: little and he's like yeah, and she was already tied
Speaker 2: up and smiling. And they don't believe the tied up part,
Speaker 2: and they say, we think you raped her and killed her,
Speaker 2: and he screams no. So that's the end of the scene,
Speaker 2: him like denying the rape. And then we're in Cragan's
Speaker 2: office and we have Scota, the lawyer with the Bangs Benson,
Speaker 2: and the lawyer is pissed in there and she's like,
Speaker 2: you wrote a psych evaluation on Jimmy, and Scoda's like no, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: and Sabler's like, well, the legal aid attorney said that
Speaker 2: you did. And he's filed for a statement hearing and basically,
Speaker 2: if he can prove that Jimmy didn't understand his miranda rights,
Speaker 2: that the whole convo is thrown out and anything that
Speaker 2: came after the convo, and Craigan yells at his bald enemy,
Speaker 2: how can you give the defense this kind of ammunition?
Speaker 4: And Scota is so calm. I love him. He's so chill.
Speaker 2: He's not all worked up by Cragan. He is not
Speaker 2: into like he's so I love this character and he's like,
Speaker 2: all I did was put a sticky note on a
Speaker 2: file on your desk, which was the deed file.
Speaker 4: And what was on the sticky note?
Speaker 2: So they're like, well, what was on the sticky note
Speaker 2: and basically on the sticky rope note just said our
Speaker 2: word question mark comedy gold. Comedy gold for those which
Speaker 2: remember this is two thousands. So they're using the R
Speaker 2: word very liberally throughout this entire episode, like it's not
Speaker 2: a big deal, and obviously it's not said anymore no,
Speaker 2: but it is just like that the professional so like
Speaker 2: psychologists just wrote our word question.
Speaker 4: It's just kind of incredible.
Speaker 2: And he also said that it shouldn't have even left
Speaker 2: the office, and the Bang's lady says, well it did.
Speaker 2: And finally, the Bang's lady has been in this episode
Speaker 2: so many times, like we've seen her a few times,
Speaker 2: so I have to acknowledge her. Her character name is
Speaker 2: eighty A Fahee, she's only in this episode.
Speaker 1: I look her up. Her actress name is Catherine Borrowitz
Speaker 1: and she is married.
Speaker 4: To John Teturo.
Speaker 1: Oh no way, they've been married since nineteen eighty five,
Speaker 1: and she became a social worker in twin sixteen, and
Speaker 1: so she left the biz.
Speaker 4: Yes, and so she said, well it did.
Speaker 2: The sticky note made it into the discovery packet, and
Speaker 2: now we have a hearing on Monday, and anything they
Speaker 2: find to refute his mental retardation would be great, and
Speaker 2: leaves and Craigan sends them off to start digging. So
Speaker 2: they got like, they have to go get his Board
Speaker 2: of Education records, and Benson's in a big ass book
Speaker 2: and reads that according to the DSM criteria, an IQ
Speaker 2: of under seventy means you have like diminished capacity, and
Speaker 2: so he doesn't have one on record, and he wasn't
Speaker 2: tested ever, and he missed a lot of school and
Speaker 2: he just got d's and f So Munch was like, okay,
Speaker 2: so that doesn't mean anything.
Speaker 4: Einstein got bad grades.
Speaker 1: And Benson's like, sure, we'll go argue that he's Einstein.
Speaker 5: Ha like.
Speaker 4: So they go for his.
Speaker 2: Work records and he did have difficulty sustaining employment.
Speaker 4: He was even fired for McDonald's.
Speaker 1: But you know, he lived in his own, unassisted apartment
Speaker 1: in New York City, which is not easy.
Speaker 4: So they go to the apartment.
Speaker 2: The landlord lets him in, there's tons of books, and
Speaker 2: Sailor's like, well, he can't be our word. He has
Speaker 2: got books, and so the landlord is like, you know,
Speaker 2: he is a big reader. He reads the paper on
Speaker 2: the stoop every morning, and he's kept every receipt he's
Speaker 2: ever had. He always pays in cash. There's no check books,
Speaker 2: there's no diaries. He does have tons of porn and
Speaker 2: even in the kitchen the stove is filled with books
Speaker 2: and newspapers. It's just like everywhere. And then we find
Speaker 2: out like a lot of the receipts and stuff. So
Speaker 2: he eats at Lily's diner exclusively, and once it was
Speaker 2: closed for a week, he lost like ten pounds because
Speaker 2: the landlord lets him know, like the diner is closed,
Speaker 2: he didn't eat. So they go to the diner and
Speaker 2: they talk to her and she's in like a pink classic,
Speaker 2: you know dress and mop of orange hair. Love her
Speaker 2: and he comes in every day, twice a day, three
Speaker 2: times on the weekend. He always sits at the counter alone,
Speaker 2: and it's odd because she's like, hey, he's always alone.
Speaker 4: But he's so friendly.
Speaker 2: He talks to who ever sits beside him, and they're like, so,
Speaker 2: does he ever come off as slow or anything. She goes, well,
Speaker 2: he's not in a hurry. He studies everything item on
Speaker 2: the menu. And it drives her nuts because even though
Speaker 2: he reads my item on the menu, he always just
Speaker 2: gets the special. Every time, he always orders the special.
Speaker 2: She walks off. Benson's like, it's weird that nobody like
Speaker 2: that saw him every day, picked up on his developmental
Speaker 2: disabilities whatsoever. In Sabler's like, well, that was limited contact.
Speaker 2: So now we go to the home of Sylvia Walp
Speaker 2: and this is the mother, his mother, and it's not
Speaker 2: just a random loose mother, his mom. And she says
Speaker 2: that he never gave her any trouble. But there were
Speaker 2: six kids and Jimmy was the sixth, and he would
Speaker 2: just sit in front of the TV and she wouldn't
Speaker 2: have to worry about him for hours. She admits that
Speaker 2: she didn't really have enough, like she didn't give any
Speaker 2: of the kids too much attention.
Speaker 4: She was just really tired.
Speaker 2: And they asked why he missed so much school, and
Speaker 2: she's like, I don't know. He was usually an angel,
Speaker 2: but when he had a bad day, I just kept
Speaker 2: him at home and they're like, and you never thought
Speaker 2: to test him?
Speaker 4: And she's like, yeah, I don't know. I never I
Speaker 4: never thought about tests.
Speaker 2: And they're like, well, like to see if he had
Speaker 2: learning disorders, and she's like, he's not our word, and
Speaker 2: she's his mother, she would notice something like that. And
Speaker 2: they're like, well, what's the when's the last time you
Speaker 2: saw him? And she thinks and she goes, huh, I
Speaker 2: guess when he left the home. And Benson's like at eighteen,
Speaker 2: and she goes, listen, I'm not the best mom, but
Speaker 2: raising seven kids by myself, it's just a lot. He
Speaker 2: never had girlfriends or luck in that area. She didn't
Speaker 2: know if he had friends or not. And so this
Speaker 2: is whil like the no one paid attention to this guy.
Speaker 2: So then back at the office, Munch got the test
Speaker 2: scores in and the he.
Speaker 4: Scored a sixty eight.
Speaker 2: Jimmy scored a sixty eight on the IQA val and
Speaker 2: Sailor's like, fuck, but like what if he like he
Speaker 2: didn't have any reason to try his best?
Speaker 4: What if that's the fuck up?
Speaker 2: And so Benson then adds like it's fucking on that nothing,
Speaker 2: not one thing from his home was something in his
Speaker 2: own handwriting. Stabler then finds a porn box and on
Speaker 2: the porn box it says insatiable bondage sluts. And then
Speaker 2: Stabler goes, that's nice. So and the staging of insatiable
Speaker 2: bondage sluts, I just wanted to say that again. But
Speaker 2: the cover of the porno is the same staging as Bernstein,
Speaker 2: like down to the color of the nightgown and everything,
Speaker 2: and so you know, Skoda and enters with Craigan and
Speaker 2: then they hand the porn box to Scoda and he's like,
Speaker 2: you know, he saw a living tableau from this tape
Speaker 2: and got excited. And he continues that maybe like he
Speaker 2: probably misreads social cues and mimics to appear normal, and
Speaker 2: he's like he could have seen this and thought he
Speaker 2: had to do it. And Craigan's like, whose side are
Speaker 2: you on? And Scoda as cool as a cucumber. Again,
Speaker 2: He's like, I just want to see justice done. And
Speaker 2: Jimmy for sure needs to be incarcerated. He continues, the
Speaker 2: question is where, and Sailor's like whatever, Jail's accept like
Speaker 2: mentally challenge people all the time, and we have two
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty of them sitting on death row factor,
Speaker 2: and Scoda is like, yeah, the system is slanted against them,
Speaker 2: and then he begins to list the reasons, like people
Speaker 2: with developmental disabilities, they're eager to please, and they agree
Speaker 2: to stuff, they incriminate themselves, and they don't assist in
Speaker 2: their own defense. He's like, listen, I know you don't
Speaker 2: want to hear this, but I really don't think that
Speaker 2: he understands the consequences of his actions, and Craigan is
Speaker 2: pissed and he goes off on him and he disagrees
Speaker 2: and he went his whole life not being diagnosed until
Speaker 2: right now. That's a little convenient, and Scoda goes, no,
Speaker 2: I think it's tragic, and Craigan doesn't care. And this
Speaker 2: is always my point on this podcast, the difference between
Speaker 2: social work and criminal justice.
Speaker 4: We're seeing it. We're seeing it right now.
Speaker 2: Craigan doesn't care, and he just wants to push forward
Speaker 2: in the case he knows he did something wrong, and
Speaker 2: Scota shakes his head and they walk off in opposite
Speaker 2: directions and we cut straight to court stablers on the stand,
Speaker 2: He's like, listen, he lived alone and had a job
Speaker 2: and there were no there's no prior info about him
Speaker 2: being disabled anywhere, and the judge is so suspicious and
Speaker 2: like staring at him or wants the fuck stablers so
Speaker 2: fucking hard. I can't tell the exact vibe the judge
Speaker 2: is giving. The lawyer's in a wheelchair. That's so exciting,
Speaker 2: way ahead of their time. But also then they never
Speaker 2: did it again, like yeah, it is interesting. It's like, okay,
Speaker 2: like this lawyer is probably like helping because he really
Speaker 2: cares about like disabilities, and so SVU did something great,
Speaker 2: and then it's like, why did we never have a
Speaker 2: wheelchair lawyer again until like yeah, and then we had
Speaker 2: one pedophile trafficker in a wheelchair in the teens in
Speaker 2: the teen seasons.
Speaker 4: But it's just it's interesting.
Speaker 2: So the defense is like, you know, you found all
Speaker 2: these books and you use that as evidence for your case,
Speaker 2: but do you know the links the community will go
Speaker 2: to to disguise their inadequacies. They'll sit in public and
Speaker 2: pretend to read them, and they point at the two
Speaker 2: who like The camera goes to the two feuding balds
Speaker 2: in the courtroom and they're sitting a row apart. The
Speaker 2: defense layer continues, a lot of people that are developmentally
Speaker 2: challenged will wear a watch even if they can't till time.
Speaker 2: And my client spent his life fooling people. And the
Speaker 2: ada is like, is there a question here? And the
Speaker 2: judge agrees, like, get to a fucking question. And so
Speaker 2: the question he lands on is did you ask him
Speaker 2: to read anything out loud while in your custody? He's like,
Speaker 2: I found no need for that, and the lawyer's like,
Speaker 2: but you asked him to read over his rights before
Speaker 2: he signed the waiver.
Speaker 4: Yes, but he also read it to him.
Speaker 2: Stabler says, So, now Jimmy's on the stand and he
Speaker 2: remembers hearing Stabler explain his rights and he's now asked
Speaker 2: to say them out loud, and he begins and he
Speaker 2: does say them, like you have the right to remain silent,
Speaker 2: and he finishes the whole thing. But then the lawyer
Speaker 2: goes explain it, and he smiles and goes, those are
Speaker 2: your rights, and they're like, well, explain the rights, and
Speaker 2: he can't, and they're like, well, explain the court of law.
Speaker 2: No idea, due process, no idea roll of a judge
Speaker 2: and he points to him, but no clue. The defense
Speaker 2: attorney is feeling smug and rolls back and then the
Speaker 2: it's bings turn and do you know why you're here today?
Speaker 2: And he does know that because of Missus Bernstein, and
Speaker 2: the defense doesn't like that. You know, there's an objection,
Speaker 2: but this is a he because he says, this is
Speaker 2: a hearing on only like if he's confident, you know,
Speaker 2: this is a statement thing, not about the case. And
Speaker 2: the judge agrees, so she has to confine the questions.
Speaker 2: She says, listen, everyone your lawyer put up said you
Speaker 2: were you know our word, and everyone I put on
Speaker 2: the stand said you're not.
Speaker 4: So nobody asked you are you mentally retarded?
Speaker 2: And he says no, And the defense is obvious, like,
Speaker 2: you know, people deny this all the time. We went
Speaker 2: over all of this. This is very common, and the
Speaker 2: judge goes, okay, noted. Jimmy stands up and points to
Speaker 2: his lawyer and end quote says, I am not retarded
Speaker 2: and he could prove it by telling everyone what he
Speaker 2: did to missus Bernstein. She was on the bed, she
Speaker 2: was not dressed, and her hands were tied above her head,
Speaker 2: and he poses with her like he poses like her
Speaker 2: with arms above his head, and the lawyer's trying to
Speaker 2: get him to stop talking, and he goes on and
Speaker 2: on and says she was moaning and it was so exciting.
Speaker 2: And the lawyer is pleading at this point, like your honor,
Speaker 2: and the judge is like, I want to hear what
Speaker 2: he has to say, so this will be off the record,
Speaker 2: and he tells the little typer to stop typing, but
Speaker 2: he wants to know, so he continues and he goes
Speaker 2: he grins, and he goes, I'd seen it on the videos,
Speaker 2: but I'd never done it before, and so he got
Speaker 2: on top of her and he says it felt really good,
Speaker 2: and then he chuckles. He's an incredible actor. I mean,
Speaker 2: Dennis O'Hare. I can't believe we got to talk to him.
Speaker 2: He is just phenomenal in this episode. And he said
Speaker 2: he tried to kiss her and that's when he noticed
Speaker 2: something was wrong, and so maybe he did do something wrong.
Speaker 2: So he tries to think, but he tried to do
Speaker 2: CPR like how he saw on TV. But I guess
Speaker 2: that was wrong too, and then he starts to cry
Speaker 2: and says that he was unable to explain what happened
Speaker 2: to anyone, so he just went into the bathroom and hid,
Speaker 2: and that's when Stan came in and let him know
Speaker 2: that the old lady was dead, and he whimpers and
Speaker 2: he's so upset and he has tears in his eyes
Speaker 2: and he sits back and like everything is kind of
Speaker 2: being realized, like what he did and that she was dead,
Speaker 2: and it's really sad. So Scoda turns and gives a
Speaker 2: look to Craigan like I fucking told you so, you dipshit.
Speaker 4: Are you proud of yourself now?
Speaker 2: And so now Craigan is walking down the work hallway
Speaker 2: with his head laying low and shame, and Scoda runs
Speaker 2: after him and says that they should work together to
Speaker 2: make a recommendation for the core when he has time,
Speaker 2: and Craigan's still being a dick.
Speaker 4: I'm like shocked. I thought he was, like shame.
Speaker 2: He's like I'm fresh out of time, doc, and he's like,
Speaker 2: just write the report and put my name on it.
Speaker 2: And Scoda's like, what the fuck? What is eating you bitch?
Speaker 2: Like what is going on? And Craigan flips out and
Speaker 2: he's mad because it's only two IQ points away from
Speaker 2: not being considered developmentally challenged, and Scoda's like, yeah, but
Speaker 2: he was devastated by what he did. You saw that,
Speaker 2: and Craigan goes, no, what I saw was remorse, which
Speaker 2: means he knows exactly what he did. Scota's like, I
Speaker 2: sleep like a baby with all the psychos I'm able
Speaker 2: to put away. But this isn't right, And Craigan's like, fine,
Speaker 2: let's just let him rest in a quiet place where
Speaker 2: he can read Winnie the Pooh and drink hot chocolate
Speaker 2: while missus Bernstein gets a headstone.
Speaker 4: Do you remember her?
Speaker 2: So we open back up on Jimmy but and he's
Speaker 2: being admitted to a center and Scoda is in a
Speaker 2: Newsy's type hat and he's walking Jimmy in and Jimmy
Speaker 2: is like, you know, getting escorted out of a van, handcuffed,
Speaker 2: and they walk him in and he is so upset
Speaker 2: and scared. I'm like blown away by his acting and
Speaker 2: everyone there, and there's like more outwardly fucked up, like
Speaker 2: people are banging, they're yelling, they're shaking, people are not
Speaker 2: able to speak, and it hits him like where he's
Speaker 2: going to spend his life because he was living alone,
Speaker 2: like it was a different type of life and there
Speaker 2: was a lot of lies, but like now being with
Speaker 2: people that like can't you know, he was with out
Speaker 2: in the real world, and so yeah, it just like
Speaker 2: really hits him that, Like this is very one flew
Speaker 2: over the Cuckoo's nest type thing.
Speaker 4: It's like they're trying to scare you.
Speaker 2: It's like going into an institution where they're like trying
Speaker 2: to freak you out by you know, people that are
Speaker 2: suffering from like probably schizophrenia and really intense shit. And
Speaker 2: Scota's petting him and he's shaking his head and repeating no, no, no,
Speaker 2: and he has tears in his eyes.
Speaker 1: And then I'm like, maybe jail would have been better.
Speaker 1: I don't I don't know about that. I don't know
Speaker 1: if there's any.
Speaker 2: Good because then he could have been like people would
Speaker 2: be violent towards him. Yeah, and this is the saddest
Speaker 2: It's dick Wolf Baby ever, Like.
Speaker 4: It's so sad.
Speaker 1: It's really tough, something bad, But this episode is dark,
Speaker 1: no justice, it's really fucked up. And Carlos goes free.
Speaker 1: They tied her up. Yeah, so so bad. This episode's tough.
Speaker 4: This is a very gray.
Speaker 2: This is a very like SVU making us think and
Speaker 2: pushing us to our limits.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but we've got some interesting cases. So just listen
Speaker 1: to a couple of words from our sponsors and we'll
Speaker 1: be right back. Okay, So the first case that I
Speaker 1: think this episode draws from is the murder of Mabel Monahan.
Speaker 1: And Mabel was a sixty four year old widow living
Speaker 1: right here in LA but actually Burbank to be specific,
Speaker 1: which if you don't know La, Burbank is like its
Speaker 1: own city, but it's directly attached to the rest of LA.
Speaker 1: It's where a lot of like movie studios are and stuff.
Speaker 1: Mabel's daughter named Iris had been married to a guy
Speaker 1: named Tudor Sharer. When he and Iris got divorced, Iris
Speaker 1: moved back to New York City with her new husband
Speaker 1: and left the house to her mother, Mabel, who lived
Speaker 1: there alone.
Speaker 4: Now, weirdly, Mabel.
Speaker 1: And her former son in law, Tutor, stayed friends. Okay,
Speaker 1: they just maintained a friendship after they after you know,
Speaker 1: he divorced her daughter. And the problem was that Tutor,
Speaker 1: her former son in law, was a gambler and a
Speaker 1: con man. So all these rumors spread that Tudor had
Speaker 1: hidden one hundred thousand dollars in the home of his
Speaker 1: best friend former mother in law for a rainy day fund,
Speaker 1: like that's where he was stashing one hundred k in
Speaker 1: his ex mother in law's home. So these two ex
Speaker 1: cons named Emmett Perkins and Jack Santo heard about this
Speaker 1: and they started hatching a plan. They got another guy
Speaker 1: named John True who and a safecracker named Baxter Shorter,
Speaker 1: as well as a sex worker named Barbara Graham.
Speaker 4: So that's the whole crew.
Speaker 1: The whole posse of five of them. On March eight,
Speaker 1: nineteen fifty three, the gang all heads to Mabel's house.
Speaker 1: Barbara knocks on the door, talks her way in. I'm
Speaker 1: having car trouble, blah blah blah. Mabel is suspicious but
Speaker 1: eventually lets her in and the other guys follow into
Speaker 1: the house. They search the house, they cannot find a
Speaker 1: safe anywhere. The safe cracker, the guy named Shorter, claims
Speaker 1: that when he got there, Mabel Monahan was already on
Speaker 1: the floor bleeding with.
Speaker 4: A gag in her mouth.
Speaker 1: Everyone yeah, well, the safe cracker was actually called in later,
Speaker 1: so they called him in later. So he's like, when
Speaker 1: I got there, she was on the floor, and so sorry,
Speaker 1: I should have been clear about that. The other guys
Speaker 1: came in, but it's very unclear what happened. This whole thing,
Speaker 1: this whole fucking heist is a train wreck from the jump,
Speaker 1: like no one was in charge. Everyone has a different story.
Speaker 1: They tore this place apart and there was just nothing there.
Speaker 1: Some people say that Barbara's the one that viciously beat Mabel.
Speaker 1: The safecracker claims that he called the police later to
Speaker 1: get help for Mabel, but he didn't specify that the
Speaker 1: address was in Burbank, and since it's a separate city
Speaker 1: from La the address that they gave like doesn't exist,
Speaker 1: you know, like my address doesn't exist in Burbank or whatever,
Speaker 1: and fight.
Speaker 4: So vice versa.
Speaker 1: When they realized they fucked this whole thing up, they
Speaker 1: jump into separate cars and they take off. Shorter, the safecracker,
Speaker 1: and Santo are in one car, and Shorter told Santo
Speaker 1: he wanted to help get help for Mabel, and Santra goes, quote,
Speaker 1: I don't give a damn what you do. That woman
Speaker 1: stopped breathing before we left. So Mabel's body was not
Speaker 1: found for two days because of this wrong address fiasco,
Speaker 1: and it was found by her gardener who noticed that
Speaker 1: the door was opened. The place was ransacked a lot
Speaker 1: like the episode. A few weeks later, a bunch of
Speaker 1: dudes were arrested in connection with the death and a
Speaker 1: bunch of randoms and Shorter the safecracker. He figured I
Speaker 1: should get a deal first and roll on the rest
Speaker 1: of them so I don't get the death penalty. So
Speaker 1: he told the cops that he was on the job
Speaker 1: as a lookout, which was a lie, and that he
Speaker 1: was shocked and horrified to witness the murder of this woman.
Speaker 1: So the word got out that Shorter had rolled and
Speaker 1: he was kidnapped at gunpoint from his apart in downtown LA.
Speaker 1: His wife I d's the kidnappers as Emmett Perkins and
Speaker 1: Jack Santo, but Shorter was never found.
Speaker 4: They definitely murdered him.
Speaker 1: This is the fifties. They probably dumped him in the
Speaker 1: Los Angeles National Forest or something like that. Who knows,
Speaker 1: but we never find this guy again. On June third,
Speaker 1: nineteen fifty three, the rest of the group, Perkins, Santo, True,
Speaker 1: and Graham were all indicted on charges of conspiracy, commit burglary, robbery,
Speaker 1: and murder. So John True decided to save his own ass.
Speaker 1: He turned state evidence and takes a deal, and this time,
Speaker 1: the police kept a twenty four to seven watch on
Speaker 1: him so that he wouldn't get, you know, taken out
Speaker 1: by the others. The other three were convicted, sentenced to death,
Speaker 1: and executed in the gas chamber, and the press called Barbara.
Speaker 1: Of course the woman gets the main like brunt of
Speaker 1: the press bullshit, but she gets called bloody Babs. And
Speaker 1: she was the third woman in California to be executed
Speaker 1: by gas. So that's one numbers. I mean, they're all
Speaker 1: like bad ways to die.
Speaker 2: Like I don't know if electric is more chill, but
Speaker 2: I know, like hearing gas chamber is kind of like geez.
Speaker 1: And there's like a famous thing where right before she
Speaker 1: went in, somebody said to her, like the guy who
Speaker 1: was doing it was like, take deep breasts so it'll
Speaker 1: go faster, like just inhale the gas and get it done.
Speaker 4: And she goes, how would you know, like you're still alive,
Speaker 4: I guess.
Speaker 1: Like so anyway, that was like her famous last like
Speaker 1: some of her famous last words. So the other case
Speaker 1: this is based on is Johnny Paul Penry, and this
Speaker 1: is a really sad case. Penry had brain damage from
Speaker 1: birth related to being breach, which is when the baby's head,
Speaker 1: the baby tries to come out feet first. And his
Speaker 1: mother also suffered from schizophrenia and treated him horribly and
Speaker 1: was abusive. She burned him in a scalding bath, locked
Speaker 1: him in his room for long periods of time without
Speaker 1: food or water, and he was allegedly forced to drink
Speaker 1: his own urine and eat his own feces. Horrible, his
Speaker 1: sister said in court documents, quote we were all abused,
Speaker 1: but he was abused the worst. She would beat him
Speaker 1: with anything in sight. She would threaten to gouge his
Speaker 1: eyeballs out with her long fingernails. She would threaten to
Speaker 1: cut off his privates with a butcher knife.
Speaker 4: End quote.
Speaker 1: So this guy, Johnny Paul Penry, only went through first
Speaker 1: grade of education when he was nine. His IQ was
Speaker 1: fifty six, according to a state psychologist report, and according
Speaker 1: to the report, it said, quote Johnny seems so seriously
Speaker 1: impaired that he is incapable of intellectually functioning at anything
Speaker 1: like an age appropriate level. So at twelve, he was
Speaker 1: institutionalized at the Mexia State School for the Mentally Retarded.
Speaker 1: According to a school report, the school noticed many small
Speaker 1: scars on Johnny's head, when they gave him a haircut,
Speaker 1: and Johnny said they were from a belt buckle when
Speaker 1: his mom would beat him. At fifteen, he was given
Speaker 1: a reading test where he had to match drawings to words.
Speaker 1: He identified a door as a dress, a chicken as
Speaker 1: a drum, a hat as a flag. So this guy
Speaker 1: has very very low intellectual capacity. And in nineteen seventy seven,
Speaker 1: Henry attacks a woman and rapes her. State psychiatrists found
Speaker 1: that he was still a bedwetter and that his judgment
Speaker 1: was quote severely and then he had little regard for
Speaker 1: others or even himself. Penry said he didn't mean to
Speaker 1: hurt the woman, but the doctor wrote in his report
Speaker 1: quote he had never had a woman before, and he
Speaker 1: wanted to see what that would be like. End quote.
Speaker 1: So for this crime he only serves two years. So
Speaker 1: he gets out and he gets a job delivering appliances.
Speaker 1: Three months after getting out in nineteen seventy nine. October
Speaker 1: of nineteen seventy nine, Henry rapes and kills a twenty
Speaker 1: two year old woman named Pamela Moseley Carpenter by stabbing
Speaker 1: her with a pair of scissors. He had delivered something
Speaker 1: to her a few weeks before. So then he broke
Speaker 1: into her house while she was decorating it, beat and
Speaker 1: raped her, and then left her to die. She eventually
Speaker 1: died from internal bleeding, but before she did, she described
Speaker 1: her attacker in the ambulance. So Penry was arrested by
Speaker 1: police on the same day. He was sentenced to death
Speaker 1: in April of nineteen eighty just a few months later,
Speaker 1: and his case set off a huge nationwide discussion about
Speaker 1: the idea of executing intellectually disabled offenders. So in nineteen
Speaker 1: eighty nine, and his case went all the way to
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court and it was called Penry versus Lineow,
Speaker 1: and the Court held that the execution of intellectually disabled
Speaker 1: defenders did not constitute cruel and unusual punishment. I don't
Speaker 1: know how, but you know, the Supreme Court does a
Speaker 1: lot of fucked up stuff. But they did overturn his
Speaker 1: death sentence, saying that the jury had not been allowed
Speaker 1: to properly consider his intellectual disability as a mitigating evidence
Speaker 1: during the punishment phase of the trial. So in nineteen ninety,
Speaker 1: this goes on forever. In nineteen ninety he's tried again,
Speaker 1: and again he's sentenced to death. In two thousand and one,
Speaker 1: that nineteen ninety conviction is appealed to the U. S
Speaker 1: Supreme Court. In Penry versus Johnson, the court ruled by
Speaker 1: a six ' to three majority that the judge presiding
Speaker 1: over the nineteen ninety trial had given inadequate instructions to
Speaker 1: the jury in terms of how they should weigh the
Speaker 1: concerns about his mental impairment when deciding on his punishment.
Speaker 1: In October of two thousand and five, his third death
Speaker 1: sentence was overturned by the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals
Speaker 1: on the grounds that the jury may not have adequately
Speaker 1: considered his mental impairment.
Speaker 4: So in two thousand.
Speaker 1: And six, the US Supreme Court refused to reinstate the sentence.
Speaker 1: His lawyer said that his IQ was between fifty and sixty,
Speaker 1: with and I as they said in the episode, and
Speaker 1: IQ of seventy is used as the threshold for intellectual impairment.
Speaker 1: Prosecutors remained convinced that Perry was not intellectually impaired, pointing
Speaker 1: to two television interview clips he did that had been
Speaker 1: shown at one of his trials. A prosecutor said that
Speaker 1: in one interview, Penry spoke normally and on the other one,
Speaker 1: he spoke quote unquote like Elmer Fudd, So they kind
Speaker 1: of think that he's a sociopath who's like making it
Speaker 1: up that he's more intellectually disabled than he is, and
Speaker 1: that he had only been sent to the Home for
Speaker 1: intellectually Disabled Children because he was such an uncontrollable child,
Speaker 1: and no one sees how these.
Speaker 4: Things could be related in any way.
Speaker 1: In two thousand and eight, Penry agrees to a plea
Speaker 1: bargain in which he was given three consecutive sentences of
Speaker 1: life without parole for Carpenter's murder and sexual assault, and
Speaker 1: as part of the plea deal, he had to certify
Speaker 1: that he was not intellectually disabled.
Speaker 4: They're like, we will not kill.
Speaker 1: You, you'll spend the rest of your life in jail, but
Speaker 1: you've got to tell us that you're not intellectually disabled.
Speaker 1: Even though by IQ is there seems to be a
Speaker 1: lot of evidence that he is. He matched address to
Speaker 1: a door, you know, Like when he was on death row,
Speaker 1: he was an outcast. He was shunned by other inmates
Speaker 1: because of his intellectual disability. His like we said his
Speaker 1: IQ was sixty was fifty six. He spent his days
Speaker 1: coloring with crayons and looking at comic books that he
Speaker 1: could not read. According to his lawyer, he says he
Speaker 1: still believes in Santa Claus. And this is from a
Speaker 1: New York Times article that was released a few days
Speaker 1: before one of his scheduled executions. And so he is
Speaker 1: still incarcerated as far as I know. And of the
Speaker 1: thirty eight states that have capital punishment, thirteen bar the
Speaker 1: execution of the mentally it says the mentally retarded. What
Speaker 1: I looked up as does federal law. People are classified
Speaker 1: as mentally disabled if their IQs are below seventy and
Speaker 1: they have an inability to adapt to daily life. But
Speaker 1: that was as of two thousand. I don't know what
Speaker 1: the current capital punishment statistics are about executing the mentally incapacitated,
Speaker 1: because they were they were hard to find.
Speaker 4: I mean, I guess I get the.
Speaker 2: Point of view of like these people care for the victims,
Speaker 2: but like this urgent rush and obsession with the death
Speaker 2: penalty and I don't kill him, kill him then say
Speaker 2: you're not this and that, Like I don't.
Speaker 4: I just I don't understand that, Like.
Speaker 1: Especially when there's like a there's like court documents like
Speaker 1: noting a lifelong abuse, like lifelong abuse, like how you
Speaker 1: know it's just so it's just sad all around, this
Speaker 1: whole this whole case. But yeah, but we've got a
Speaker 1: really cool guest that we got to lend your pal.
Speaker 4: We got off from all of the darkness of this episode,
Speaker 4: so please stay right where you are.
Speaker 1: I just want to give a quick disclaimer before we
Speaker 1: introduce our guests that this interview was pre taped. It
Speaker 1: was taped before we knew about the SAG strike, which
Speaker 1: we as both members of SAG Lisa and I are
Speaker 1: we fully and wholeheartedly support. So just in case anyone's wondering,
Speaker 1: no one is going against strike rules with this conversation,
Speaker 1: and just wanted.
Speaker 4: To give you guys that heads up.
Speaker 1: All right, our guest today is a very talented actor
Speaker 1: whose face you will recognize. He's been in so many things,
Speaker 1: movies like Old School and Coach Carter. He was a
Speaker 1: series regular on WB's Arrow and if you're like me
Speaker 1: and you watch Law and Order Organized Crime, you will
Speaker 1: recognize him as Detective Bobby Reyes, who is a regular
Speaker 1: and part of Stabler's team over on that show.
Speaker 4: But you know him today as the.
Speaker 1: Poor teenage dirt bag with not a lot of choices
Speaker 1: Alfonso Cardenas. Guys enjoy our convo with a very talented
Speaker 1: Rick Gonzalez.
Speaker 4: I love this like.
Speaker 1: Trajectory you have where like SVU was probably like one
Speaker 1: of your first jobs season one, and now you're back
Speaker 1: twenty three years later on the on the reconfiguration. What
Speaker 1: am I trying to say that? Yeah, yeah, you're back
Speaker 1: in the Dick Wolf universe.
Speaker 5: Back in the universe.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean it's organized crime, and so we're in
Speaker 6: a different world and it is very strange to go
Speaker 6: from you know, I did that episode in nineteen ninety
Speaker 6: nine and and then I never I've never thought that
Speaker 6: coming back to that world would be possible, you know,
Speaker 6: I thought, you know, it's like a rite of passage, right.
Speaker 6: I'm sure other actors have come on here and said that.
Speaker 6: So it's like this idea of like, well, I did it,
Speaker 6: you know, I did my my bid so to speak.
Speaker 6: You know, it's done, you know, and then yeah, here
Speaker 6: I am.
Speaker 1: It's just very strange, well, not only as an actor,
Speaker 1: but like as probably a New Yorker to pretty fun
Speaker 1: getting arrested on the streets of New York by Ice Tea.
Speaker 4: Oh I.
Speaker 6: Well I when I did this season, Ice wasn't there yet.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, you're right at season one?
Speaker 5: Yeah, no, it was nice. It was just Mariska and
Speaker 5: men Too and Maloney.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and most of my scenes were really just with
Speaker 6: Marishka and Chris.
Speaker 4: He gets really into your face too.
Speaker 5: Yeah, didn't get into everyone's face.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it truly looks like he's.
Speaker 1: About to kiss most people that he's like, he does.
Speaker 4: Get so so close.
Speaker 1: Oh for sure when you joined OC, did he like
Speaker 1: remember you from ninety nine or where did you have
Speaker 1: to jog his memory or like what I.
Speaker 5: Had to jog his memory?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 5: Yeah, for sure. I walked in.
Speaker 6: I was like, hey, we did the thing a long
Speaker 6: time ago, and he was just.
Speaker 5: Like okay, yeah, all right, great, great?
Speaker 6: You know I'm sure, I mean, how many episodes is
Speaker 6: this man has done?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 6: I know it's there's a lot of guest stars. Yeah,
Speaker 6: I barely I barely remember what I've done last week,
Speaker 6: so I'm sure like he's not gonna remember.
Speaker 2: But well, also your co star, the other bad guy,
Speaker 2: and that's Eugene Bird was an arrow.
Speaker 4: Where did you guys overlap?
Speaker 6: No, we did it, but Eugene is a good friend
Speaker 6: of mine, and so that was the first time I
Speaker 6: met Eugene doing Law and Order. And he was on
Speaker 6: Arrow the season before I got there, so he was
Speaker 6: there season four.
Speaker 5: I got their season five.
Speaker 6: He plays Diggle's brother, which is David Ramsey's character, and yeah,
Speaker 6: we just sort of always cross paths overlap. But I've
Speaker 6: always been rooting for that guy because he's such a
Speaker 6: good actor. So it's always cool when that stuff happens.
Speaker 6: But I remember when we did the SVU episode, he
Speaker 6: was like, man, I want you know, I want my
Speaker 6: character to, you know, like kind of be Latino like
Speaker 6: you you know what I mean. So like give me
Speaker 6: some words or something that I could use in a
Speaker 6: scene where we get you know, and I'm like, what
Speaker 6: do you want to say?
Speaker 5: Eugene. He's like, I don't know me.
Speaker 6: It's like, you know, they pulling me away, you know.
Speaker 6: I want to tell you like don't say anything. And
Speaker 6: I'm like, oh, you want to say no? They said naha.
Speaker 6: He was like, oh yeah, yeah, give me that, give
Speaker 6: me that.
Speaker 5: I want to say that, you know.
Speaker 6: So we were like I just love that, you know,
Speaker 6: like in the beginning, like that was one of my
Speaker 6: I think that was like my third job ever, and
Speaker 6: it was just like immediately, like you know, you connect
Speaker 6: with someone you know and you're doing fun things like
Speaker 6: that and you're you're able to give another fellow actor,
Speaker 6: like you know, ideas and choices and and from that
Speaker 6: moment on we just stayed friends, you know, living in
Speaker 6: California and stuff like that. So, uh yeah, that's what
Speaker 6: I remember fondly about working with Eugens. He's always so
Speaker 6: enthusiastic about the work.
Speaker 2: Oh that's awesome. Now both of you are successful. It
Speaker 2: worked out. Yeah, they are working. Your IMDBs are robust.
Speaker 5: We do okay.
Speaker 1: So we've like interviewed, you know, over a hundred actors
Speaker 1: that have been on the show, and like, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: we get a lot of like Marishka's really warm, Marishka's
Speaker 1: really amazing, Like we love Marishka.
Speaker 4: And then with Maloney, everyone's like.
Speaker 1: Love him, very professional, but they always tell us that
Speaker 1: he's like a little bit more serious, a little bit
Speaker 1: more like you know, reserve, like kind of in the
Speaker 1: like in his like in his process or whatever. Then
Speaker 1: I look at the instagrams of you guys on the
Speaker 1: OC set. You whileways all look like you're having a blast.
Speaker 1: So what's the tea? Like, has he loosened up? Is
Speaker 1: he how do you find him on the on oc
Speaker 1: Because you guys are all like playing pranks and jokey jokes.
Speaker 4: It sounds like.
Speaker 6: So I guess my perspective is like, you know, we
Speaker 6: show up and yeah, there is this side of like
Speaker 6: we're trying to get the scene done and we're trying
Speaker 6: to get the work done, we're trying to figure it out.
Speaker 6: But then there's also the side of him where like
Speaker 6: he's like stretchy, you know, and he's trying to like,
Speaker 6: you know, so he'll I have like a serious moment
Speaker 6: and then all of a sudden his leg is like
Speaker 6: half across a table while he's drinking you know, sparkling water,
Speaker 6: And then like we just had a serious moment about work,
Speaker 6: and now he's like so we'll just snap photos, you know,
Speaker 6: and I'm just like, this is.
Speaker 5: A great photo. This is a nice little.
Speaker 6: Tableau of our number one. But yeah, I mean I
Speaker 6: think to us, it's just like you gotta have fun.
Speaker 6: You got to kind of loosen up, you know, and
Speaker 6: just bring levity to the to the day.
Speaker 5: And I think that's what he is.
Speaker 6: You know, I think he's sort of like taking a
Speaker 6: step back and having a good laugh and you know,
Speaker 6: being able to because I think we do have those
Speaker 6: moments even on the show, you know, we try to
Speaker 6: find those fun moments between us, especially this last this
Speaker 6: past season, we've tried to find it a few times,
Speaker 6: which was cool, and I think that allowed us to
Speaker 6: sort of be comfortable.
Speaker 2: Do you work out together? Are you know, any exercises
Speaker 2: with Maloney?
Speaker 6: Not together or no, but we do trade war stories
Speaker 6: and you know, notes.
Speaker 5: Like hey, what'd you well?
Speaker 6: My thing for me is like every morning I see
Speaker 6: them and I say, what'd you work on?
Speaker 5: You know, like what'd you do in the gym? You know?
Speaker 6: You know, and I'll just poking produm, you know, and
Speaker 6: like let me feel the bict.
Speaker 2: In because I stalked you on Instagram and your family.
Speaker 2: You have a muscular family. You guys are out there.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, yeah, my wife is the most muscular of all.
Speaker 2: Wait, I want to switch it up and then we'll
Speaker 2: go back to sv you how is it being in
Speaker 2: Lady Gaga's music video.
Speaker 4: We're gonna get right to the.
Speaker 6: Point here, right right, right, We get into the meeting potatoes.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, we have a notes document where we like
Speaker 1: take notes about you and ask rod our questions down
Speaker 1: and this is in caps with a many many exclamation points.
Speaker 4: We are very excited about the Judas video.
Speaker 6: That was It was so random. They came out of nowhere.
Speaker 6: I was like, like, I'm sitting on a couch with
Speaker 6: my wife and manager calls like, so you're gonna then
Speaker 6: Lady Gaga.
Speaker 5: Wants you to be in a next video, and I'm like, she.
Speaker 6: Knows who I am, you know, Like it's like yeah,
Speaker 6: and then fast forward to like we meet her and
Speaker 6: we see the whole creative direction and there's like this
Speaker 6: whole Jesus aspect, you know, sort of recreating like moments
Speaker 6: of Christ's life but in the version of like Biker Gang.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 6: And I was like, huh okay, and then Norman Ritis
Speaker 6: is gonna play Judas and I'm gonna be Jesus. It
Speaker 6: was like it was actually a lot of fun. I
Speaker 6: knew that they asked me to, So I did a
Speaker 6: movie called Biker Boys a long time ago, and I
Speaker 6: did learn how to ride a motorcycle, but I didn't
Speaker 6: learn after that.
Speaker 5: I didn't continue it. I didn't. So the idea was, hey, can.
Speaker 6: You ride you know, Lady Gaga, you know, on the
Speaker 6: bike with you? And I'm like no, it's like, well
Speaker 6: you did Biker Boys and we know you can ride.
Speaker 5: I'm like what that was like a long time ago.
Speaker 6: I haven't been riding. Norman rides. He's a very good rider.
Speaker 6: He does that for sure. And so the idea was,
Speaker 6: could we figure out the whole rigging of the bike
Speaker 6: so you can have her behind you? And I don't
Speaker 6: think they were trying to do that, but eventually they
Speaker 6: had to. And that made me feel so good because
Speaker 6: I was like, I don't want to be responsible for
Speaker 6: killing Lady God.
Speaker 4: So I would not have been good.
Speaker 6: Well then, yeah, it would just be like I wouldn't
Speaker 6: have been able to do you know, organized crime.
Speaker 5: I would have been in jail. Yeah, things would have shame.
Speaker 1: I would have really really pivoted your career, I think,
Speaker 1: pretty in a not great way, very very quickly.
Speaker 4: Did you steal anything from that side?
Speaker 5: I should have. I don't know why I didn't. And
Speaker 5: this is my problem. Guys. I do all these cool
Speaker 5: shit and I don't steal.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you're to steal.
Speaker 5: I follow rules and you're not supposed to.
Speaker 6: In my position, you're supposed to just steal it, take
Speaker 6: it with you, because that's you, that's forever.
Speaker 4: Well.
Speaker 1: I just saw an interview with Reese Witherspoon and in
Speaker 1: her contract for Legally Blonde two, she said she keeps
Speaker 1: all the wardrobe you have to s well. Also, it's
Speaker 1: like in your position too, It's kind of one of
Speaker 1: those things where it's better to ask forgiveness than ask permission.
Speaker 1: Just take something and then be like I didn't realize,
Speaker 1: you know I did.
Speaker 6: I didn't take my jersey from Coach Carter. I don't
Speaker 6: know why I didn't do that.
Speaker 5: What else? I didn't take anything from old school.
Speaker 6: Now, granted, the cool thing was all the pledges, sort
Speaker 6: of like we all gave each other gifts. So my
Speaker 6: so in my storage, I have gifts from Patrick Adams
Speaker 6: and like I just got a bunch of stuff from
Speaker 6: different people.
Speaker 5: Rob Kudrey gave me his Brooklyn jacket.
Speaker 6: I still have it, Like I just like we all
Speaker 6: just gave each other gifts and stuff. So like in
Speaker 6: my mind, I'm like I didn't think to like steal
Speaker 6: the the elephant costume or like, oh know, something from the.
Speaker 5: Show, you know, for the film, So but an arrow
Speaker 5: I did.
Speaker 6: I was like, I'm stealing my jersey, I'm stealing the mask.
Speaker 6: But to that point, everyone was like, here, here's the guns,
Speaker 6: here's the the leather holster.
Speaker 5: Do you want this?
Speaker 6: And so at that moment I was able to just
Speaker 6: people were just giving me stuff. But I guess, like
Speaker 6: in the two thousands and like twenty ten's, I wasn't
Speaker 6: really taking stuff and I'm like, oh, what do.
Speaker 5: You want to?
Speaker 6: So now I'm like, now, how do I get a
Speaker 6: hold of the stuff that I was in before?
Speaker 5: And like, I don't know if it's gonna be that
Speaker 5: easy to get so right.
Speaker 2: I wonder if they have those jerseys and there are
Speaker 2: like warehouses and stuff.
Speaker 4: I wonder if you costume it's.
Speaker 6: Got to be on the Paramount lot for sure, Yeah,
Speaker 6: somewhere buried in the Paramount lot somewhere over there.
Speaker 5: And then they just give it to me, Like.
Speaker 4: Ah, it's my goal.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna I'm going to IMDb who did the wardrobe
Speaker 2: and figure this out for you.
Speaker 6: Mind you there's so many people who get replicas made
Speaker 6: of that jersey and I'm constantly signing it. Yeah, and
Speaker 6: I'm like, ah, I'm like, man, I just that's such
Speaker 6: a bummer.
Speaker 4: I need my own another classic. How was Old School?
Speaker 1: Was that like a huge moment for you?
Speaker 5: You were young?
Speaker 4: Cool, big hit? No great?
Speaker 6: I don't know if it well because it was I
Speaker 6: did Bichel Boys and then I did Old School right
Speaker 6: after that, and I mean things were starting to pick up,
Speaker 6: was working and stuff, and but we didn't.
Speaker 5: Know that movie was going to be a hit, you know.
Speaker 6: And I think I think time has sort of created
Speaker 6: like the cult energy to Old School. You know, it
Speaker 6: needed time to like for people to digest it and
Speaker 6: to really enjoy it. I think in the beginning, I
Speaker 6: got a lot of free beers at bars, you know,
Speaker 6: when that movie came out, it was a lot of
Speaker 6: free drinks. But as time moves on, you know, people
Speaker 6: sort of herald it, you know, And I think that
Speaker 6: was sort of that was definitely Will Ferrell's first big hit.
Speaker 6: I mean, yeah, I did Night in the Roxbury, but
Speaker 6: once Old School came out, it was like he's off
Speaker 6: and running so.
Speaker 1: Well, it created like the time period because then it
Speaker 1: was four year old version and crash, like it was
Speaker 1: just like all these fun ass comedies that came yeah
Speaker 1: and started it. Yeah, Like there were these big comedies
Speaker 1: too where everyone's quoting them, like everyone's like we're going
Speaker 1: streaking and everyone's like saying all this stuff like you're.
Speaker 5: My boy Blue.
Speaker 1: Like that movie just was like a quote factory. Like
Speaker 1: I mean I remember seeing it in the theater. I
Speaker 1: think like I was, I was on board with Old
Speaker 1: School from the stars from the It didn't have to
Speaker 1: marinate with me. But yes, I hear what you're saying, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: these movies that like they do well, but then they
Speaker 1: take on like cult status and like oh, I feel
Speaker 1: like it gets memed and stuff too.
Speaker 4: Still you know, oh for sure, what do.
Speaker 1: You get recognized the most for when people come up
Speaker 1: to you? Are they like they're not giving when the
Speaker 1: beat now that the beer rush is probably over a
Speaker 1: little bit, like what is it arrow or like what
Speaker 1: are people?
Speaker 5: I think Coach Carter is probably the biggest.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think Coach Carter and probably the more significant
Speaker 6: is probably the film when people sort of feel more
Speaker 6: connected to or emotionally connected to.
Speaker 5: But I mean a lot of people.
Speaker 6: Do record, you know, say you know loved Old School
Speaker 6: and and just love that film.
Speaker 5: So I get a lot of that as well.
Speaker 1: But people are never like I loved you in that
Speaker 1: one episode of Law and Order SVU from nineteen ninety
Speaker 1: nine when you played Alfonso.
Speaker 5: Well, that has happened.
Speaker 6: That has happened because there are some diehards and listen,
Speaker 6: I didn't know this existed, that there are people that
Speaker 6: go to bed, but before they go to bed, they
Speaker 6: watch SVU. You gotta like do like a few episodes
Speaker 6: and I'm like, man, that's a hardcore breed person.
Speaker 4: That ye're talking to a lot of our listeners.
Speaker 5: I mean, wow. And I had a friend of mine
Speaker 5: in New York and that's what he does.
Speaker 6: It's like, yep, gotta catch a couple episodes on USA
Speaker 6: and then I hit the hay and I'm like, you're
Speaker 6: a special breed.
Speaker 1: I think it's like yeah, because of like it's like formulaic,
Speaker 1: like you sort of like know, you know, it's like
Speaker 1: there's gonna be the crime, and then there's gonna be
Speaker 1: the red herring, and then they're gonna find the guy
Speaker 1: and then they go to court. Like you know, it's
Speaker 1: a little bit comforting in that way, like it's been
Speaker 1: on for so long.
Speaker 2: Psychologists have some theories okay, And it's like when you've
Speaker 2: grown up with trauma or chaos or something, it's like
Speaker 2: comforting because it's normal to you. So it's kind of
Speaker 2: twisted a little too, but like it's not as shocking
Speaker 2: when you've lived some nightmares or something.
Speaker 4: I guess, well, here's my thing.
Speaker 6: It's like, like, for example, my episode sweet Old Lady
Speaker 6: gets raped and killed. Yeah, ain't that like eleven thirty
Speaker 6: at night to see a sweet old lady get raped
Speaker 6: and killed before bed?
Speaker 1: But this is also like a very you're at this
Speaker 1: episode that you're in this very like gritty in the
Speaker 1: sense that like like now they'll show like if they
Speaker 1: find an old lady dead, you'll just kind of see
Speaker 1: like a little bit of gray hair and like the hands.
Speaker 1: The last one, they just show like a full dead
Speaker 1: lady lying there like tied to the bed. I was like, damn,
Speaker 1: this show was in its first season just making swings
Speaker 1: and trying to get attention. I feel like with these
Speaker 1: graphic you know things that I mean, it obviously worked.
Speaker 1: They're about to start season twenty five, but like, yeah, no,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 5: I'm not shitting on you know people. I love y'all.
Speaker 5: I love I just think it's funny, that's all. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know what was wor So I was
Speaker 2: watching SVU last night, but then I put on the
Speaker 2: Ultimatum on Netflix, which is like lesbians putting ultimatums on
Speaker 2: each other and hearing lesbians fight. I had to change
Speaker 2: it back to SVU, like it was more grading of
Speaker 2: them talking about their relationship. And I was like, put
Speaker 2: back the the Heinous Crimes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, while so you have now so you okay, So
Speaker 1: now you guys just did a like a little crossover
Speaker 1: for the finale of SVU right where.
Speaker 5: You were back.
Speaker 1: So how does that like are you guys like, so,
Speaker 1: now do you feel like there's a big difference I
Speaker 1: guess between like does it feel different when you're on
Speaker 1: the OC set versus the SBU set or do they
Speaker 1: kind of just like, yeah, no.
Speaker 5: It feels different. Yeah, No, it definitely feels different.
Speaker 6: It's like you're walking into a different You're walking into
Speaker 6: a different house, you know, and it's like this someone
Speaker 6: else's house and the way they you know, have the
Speaker 6: carpet or like it's just you're just like, wait, it's different,
Speaker 6: and their energy is different, you know, the way we
Speaker 6: sort of set up our shots is different from how
Speaker 6: they do it, and I remember Brent and I walking
Speaker 6: in them, and obviously we didn't have much to do
Speaker 6: when we crossed over. It was very It was a
Speaker 6: small scene in a way. So Brent and I are
Speaker 6: walking in and our they give us marks and I'm
Speaker 6: sure they've talked about this with you guys, Like actors
Speaker 6: get a mark where we have to stand because the
Speaker 6: camera's there. But they were already there, right, So it's
Speaker 6: like this all was just like created for us.
Speaker 5: And I'm like, at.
Speaker 6: First, I'm walking and I want to stand next to
Speaker 6: Mariska and Chris because I naturally you want to just
Speaker 6: ask for information because I'm walking in the scene as
Speaker 6: the character, And I'm like, all right, what's going on
Speaker 6: with those guys? Have they talked?
Speaker 5: You know?
Speaker 6: And I see that Brent keeps going and I'm like, well,
Speaker 6: why are you walking over there with? And then I
Speaker 6: see my color of tape on the floor over there,
Speaker 6: and I'm like, ah, Okay, they don't want me here.
Speaker 6: I need to keep going, so I'll just keep going.
Speaker 6: And then come to realize like, hey, you're coming in.
Speaker 6: We got you all ready to set up to go
Speaker 6: we're ready to shoot. You just come in, say you're line,
Speaker 6: get to that spot, and we're moving, whereas like on
Speaker 6: our set, you come in, we'll kind of figure it out,
Speaker 6: we'll talk, we'll be like, hey, you know, converse and
Speaker 6: not with them. They just moving so fast it's like
Speaker 6: it was already done. So it's just kind of like
Speaker 6: Brent and I just kind of like, wow, okay, this
Speaker 6: is kind of a sharper, well more oiled machine kind
Speaker 6: of situation happened on here.
Speaker 4: In the phrase we get the most.
Speaker 1: Everybody always says it's like a well oiled machine over
Speaker 1: it as for you, But it's all I mean, the
Speaker 1: shows look very different, and they like the pace is
Speaker 1: so different of both. Yeah, so I could see how
Speaker 1: it would be different. I just was wondering since it's
Speaker 1: like both Dick Wolf and like, you know, what the
Speaker 1: differences were.
Speaker 5: I think that.
Speaker 6: I think the idea too, is like, hey, we wanna
Speaker 6: we're all in the same universe, but how can we differentiate?
Speaker 6: So we have to do that in terms of pace,
Speaker 6: timing and also look right, Yeah, so I think we're
Speaker 6: sort of a little brighter than s for you. As
Speaker 6: for you, it gets to be a little more grittier
Speaker 6: and heavier, especially because of the content. But yeah, I
Speaker 6: mean it's it's it's kind of like how they have
Speaker 6: to sort of find their way through it, you know.
Speaker 6: So yeah, but they definitely move a little quicker than us.
Speaker 2: Going back to season one, you're a young act. You
Speaker 2: do have to cry. You are crying. Was that like,
Speaker 2: oh fuck, I have to cry today? Or are you like, oh,
Speaker 2: I've learned this. I went to the Fame High School.
Speaker 2: I'm say no.
Speaker 6: I think when it comes to that kind of stuff,
Speaker 6: Like I remember reading Sean Penn talk about Mystic River
Speaker 6: and like he was saying, like there was the scene
Speaker 6: where he finds out his daughter died, and it was
Speaker 6: just and he just mentioned that, you know, those moments
Speaker 6: are he tries not to think about it. He tries,
Speaker 6: you know, because it's just you know it's coming, you know.
Speaker 6: So it's always like in the back of your mind,
Speaker 6: like that day is lingering, it's looming somewhere in the schedule,
Speaker 6: and you just you try to, you try not to,
Speaker 6: you know, you try to give it it's you know,
Speaker 6: it's it's love whatever. I don't know how to say it,
Speaker 6: but you just kind of got given like, Okay, it's there,
Speaker 6: I know it's come, and try not to put so
Speaker 6: much on it.
Speaker 5: And I think on that day I was so hungry though.
Speaker 5: It was like my third job, so.
Speaker 6: I was just really hungry to just kind of like
Speaker 6: and I think also too, your learning and growing at
Speaker 6: the same time, like everything that I've learned so far,
Speaker 6: how do I apply it and at the same time,
Speaker 6: how can I enjoy this at the same time.
Speaker 5: So the idea was doing the scene and I start to.
Speaker 6: Cry, and I think my head starts to like, you know,
Speaker 6: you naturally you cry, you want to, like your body
Speaker 6: wants to hide, you know, you want to, like, but
Speaker 6: the camera can't see you. So as I'm crying, I
Speaker 6: feel a kick on my shin and it's Chris.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 6: And as soon as he did it, I looked up,
Speaker 6: you know, and I guess the scene's finished. And then
Speaker 6: we call cut and Chris is like, camera can't see
Speaker 6: you if your your head's down. I'm like, oh, right,
Speaker 6: thank you, you know, ouch by the way, you know,
Speaker 6: but thank you.
Speaker 5: So yeah.
Speaker 6: I mean, I think it's those those moments of like,
Speaker 6: you know, he's trying not to you, try not to
Speaker 6: like you know, it's like.
Speaker 5: A it'll be fine, We'll be all right.
Speaker 4: I like that he kicked you. He did that's he
Speaker 4: did a fun tip.
Speaker 2: This was amazing Outside of OC, Is there anything else
Speaker 2: that you want people to know where to find you?
Speaker 1: Something that's upcomings? Like locked into? Are you locked into
Speaker 1: OC right now?
Speaker 5: I am? Yeah.
Speaker 6: I think we're picked up for mid season, so twenty
Speaker 6: twenty fours, so depending on when the strike's done obviously,
Speaker 6: and then we'll get at it. So I would imagine
Speaker 6: sometime this year we start getting into that.
Speaker 1: Rickoncillas, Yeah, Wow, he gets a song, he gets a
Speaker 1: song that he was so cool.
Speaker 4: What a cool dude. Season one to organize crime.
Speaker 1: Baby, it all comes back around once you're in the
Speaker 1: Dick Wolf universe. That's why we just need to find
Speaker 1: a body and I know we'll be series regulars by
Speaker 1: twenty seventy five.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, I love.
Speaker 2: That article you posted like a month or so ago
Speaker 2: about people like the article is positive about our podcast,
Speaker 2: but then it was like and they keep begging to
Speaker 2: be on the show, but it hasn't happened for so far.
Speaker 4: No luck.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was like putting us on a top podcast list,
Speaker 1: but then also being like the hosts often talk about
Speaker 1: wanting to be on the show. No luck yet, Okay,
Speaker 1: we're not trying that hard, like we're just begging on
Speaker 1: our pod. This is a horrifying episode. The ending haunts
Speaker 1: me forever.
Speaker 4: It's a really, really terrifying episode.
Speaker 1: And I feel as though, also, like we talked about it,
Speaker 1: just was there was just a grat like now you
Speaker 1: can totally tell how they the camera skirts around the
Speaker 1: face of the victim, like you don't see like you
Speaker 1: won't see a dead old lady hung up my hand
Speaker 1: like tied up with pantyhose. On the show these days,
Speaker 1: you know, they've kind of softened.
Speaker 4: Some of that.
Speaker 1: I would disagree since last season they burned Feen in
Speaker 1: the opening credits.
Speaker 4: Yes, that's true. That's true. You're right.
Speaker 1: I think it like stopped in the middle, and then
Speaker 1: they came back this season with some gruesome shit and
Speaker 1: then the mummification like last yeah, sees it Warren Light's
Speaker 1: last season.
Speaker 4: He really let us have it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Warren Light was trying to go out with a
Speaker 1: bang and traumatize all of us so we would remember
Speaker 1: his name forever. And by the way, Warren Light's in
Speaker 1: a fucking public feud with Ryan Murphy. Ryan Murphy might
Speaker 1: sue Warren Light. Did you read about this?
Speaker 2: Yeah, but explain it to the to everyone, it's about
Speaker 2: field and stuff.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like about the Writer's Guild.
Speaker 1: Like I think he Warren Light just tweeted some shit
Speaker 1: about how Ryan Murphy was like keeping some of his
Speaker 1: shows in production and not being in solidarity with the
Speaker 1: writer's strike, and Ryan Murphy was like, that's not true
Speaker 1: and threatened to sue him.
Speaker 4: And then I don't know how details, but you can
Speaker 4: google it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but Warren Light is the captain of the Writers
Speaker 2: Guild East. That's like what yeah, and he all but
Speaker 2: I think he stepped down as that role since this
Speaker 2: lawsuit came forward. No, I think they said it's forced
Speaker 2: him to give up his captain ship. It's just fucked
Speaker 2: up because all we hear about Warren Light is how
Speaker 2: much he cares about actors and the ar and plays,
Speaker 2: and his plays are incredible, Like he really cares about
Speaker 2: the people. And Ryan Murphy, it's like, you're probably one
Speaker 2: of the richest TV makers to ever exist, and like,
Speaker 2: I don't think Warren Light's poor by any means, right,
Speaker 2: But it's I mean, I auditioned for that show, so
Speaker 2: I would have been breaking.
Speaker 4: I would have been doing it.
Speaker 2: I didn't get it, but I can't wait to see
Speaker 2: who got the part I auditioned for.
Speaker 4: I am really curious.
Speaker 2: But if I did get it, I would be crossing
Speaker 2: the picket line.
Speaker 4: I'll tell you that much. You heard it here first.
Speaker 2: If I got cast and Ryan Murphy's American Horror Story,
Speaker 2: I'm scabbing.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, we're finding out out in like two
Speaker 1: days whether we're striking as actors.
Speaker 4: We'll see, we'll see, we'll see.
Speaker 1: Oh, but at least it's happening after your premiere, so
Speaker 1: you're at your premiere having fun. I don't know if
Speaker 1: there's a big post mortem from this episode, Like what
Speaker 1: did we learn that the government is willing to execute
Speaker 1: people with mental mental problems?
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Or also that schools, I mean, the mom was a
Speaker 2: bad mom and she admitted it, but like, why did
Speaker 2: no one notice this boy couldn't read? Yeah, Like what
Speaker 2: is going on at the schools that like a child
Speaker 2: just fell so hard through the cracks in this like capacity, Also,
Speaker 2: Craig it the Bald versus the Bald really got me
Speaker 2: this episode, like.
Speaker 4: It really did.
Speaker 1: How Craigan just could not be like, like this is sad. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: Craigan was like they were really they show you. Craigan
Speaker 1: softens up a lot in later seasons, because this is
Speaker 1: early Craigan obviously season one, and he's like, I don't
Speaker 1: care if this guy has issues, get him in jail.
Speaker 1: I'll stick a needle in his arm, like they're not,
Speaker 1: you know, but it's a Dennis o haare if you
Speaker 1: if you're interested, go back and listen to our Dennis o'
Speaker 1: haair interview because I think we talk a little bit
Speaker 1: about him playing this part, and he was an amazing
Speaker 1: interview on our podcast.
Speaker 2: An amazing actor and to the point where Joel Cambuster goes, Wow, honestly,
Speaker 2: I can't even believe you got him, and I was like,
Speaker 2: are you fucking kidding? Speaking of American horror story, But
Speaker 2: he's all, isn't it no Dennis o hair?
Speaker 4: Oh h?
Speaker 1: I was like Joel, Yeah, Dennis o' haair, Oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: But yeah he was. He was a really big person.
Speaker 1: But we get so many celebrities, We get like the
Speaker 1: biggest hot shots in the fucking world.
Speaker 4: On this show.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I'm I love who our guests and Rick
Speaker 1: Gonzalez was an awesome on us. Well, and I think
Speaker 1: for this week let's just move into what would Sister
Speaker 1: Peg Do? I think you guys know that's our weekly
Speaker 1: segment where we direct you guys towards an organization, an article,
Speaker 1: a blog, a podcast, something to give you more info
Speaker 1: about what we talked about in today's episode.
Speaker 4: And I wanted to point you.
Speaker 1: Guys to a document on the ACLU website titled Intellectual
Speaker 1: Disability and the Death Penalty. And this covers the case
Speaker 1: of Atkins versus Virginia. We're in the Supreme Court rule
Speaker 1: that quote executing people with intellectual disabilities violated the Eighth
Speaker 1: Amendment prohibition against cruel and usual punishment. It also covers
Speaker 1: three factors that must be quote taken into account in
Speaker 1: order for a person to be classified as intellectually disabled.
Speaker 4: So just more information on that whole topic, you can.
Speaker 1: Go to ACLU dot org and as always, the link
Speaker 1: is in our show notes and we'll be posted in
Speaker 1: our stories on our Instagram page, which is Thats Messed
Speaker 1: Up Pod.
Speaker 4: If you're not listening to our Instagram, what are you doing?
Speaker 1: If you're not following, and we save those forever in
Speaker 1: our WWSPD story highlights so you can always see the
Speaker 1: other organizations we've directed people towards.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for that, and next week we'll
Speaker 2: be doing the episode Class Season seven, episode seventeen. We're
Speaker 2: obsessed with all of you. Thank you so much for listening.
Speaker 2: We appreciate it.
Speaker 1: And keepollow us on threads, follow us on threads. God,
Speaker 1: oh my god, we got a thread we got on threads.
Speaker 7: Bye.
Speaker 2: That's Messed Up as an exactly right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 1: it That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod
Speaker 2: and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow us
Speaker 2: personally at Karraklank and at glitter Cheese.
Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information.
Speaker 4: Thank you so.
Speaker 2: Much to our producer Kacy O'Brien, and to our.
Speaker 1: Mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cottner, and
Speaker 1: to Henry Kaperski for our theme song, and Carly Jean
Speaker 1: Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to our executive producers
Speaker 1: Georgia Hardstar, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody at Exactly
Speaker 1: Right Media, Dun Dun