1 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:06,200 Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff Mom never told you from House top 2 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: works not comed Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm 3 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:18,200 Speaker 1: Kristen and I'm Caroline, and today we're talking about one 4 00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:25,159 Speaker 1: of the most unfortunate portmanteaus in existence restaurants. It's not 5 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 1: where you go to eat breasts, although I'm sure chicken 6 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 1: breasts is available on many bastaurant menus, but it is 7 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:37,880 Speaker 1: where people visually dyne on female breasts. It sounds so predatory, 8 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 1: it kind of is, Caroline. Yeah, so, I mean, the 9 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:46,839 Speaker 1: official industry term for what we're talking about today is 10 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 1: the attentive service sector, which is code for young, conventionally 11 00:00:54,760 --> 00:01:03,040 Speaker 1: attractive women in limited clothing who serve you food, and 12 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:08,880 Speaker 1: the you is statistically seventy plus percent men. Yeah, oh 13 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 1: for sure. So before we get into this, Caroline, I 14 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:14,480 Speaker 1: feel like I should confess that I have never eaten 15 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 1: at Hooters, nor have I eaten at any of the 16 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:24,960 Speaker 1: other Atlanta area attentive service sector establishments such as Tilted 17 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 1: Kilt and most recently Twin Peaks, which unfortunately is not 18 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 1: a David Lynch themed restaurant. I absolutely thought it was 19 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 1: when I saw it being um. When I thought Twin 20 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:40,560 Speaker 1: peaks being built. I absolutely thought like, oh my god, 21 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:44,240 Speaker 1: and it's in like kind of a bougie upscale neighborhood. 22 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:47,120 Speaker 1: I thought like, oh my god, they're getting like a 23 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 1: David Lynch restaurant, Like what is that going to be? 24 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 1: Like cool? Oh? Cool? And and then I I someone 25 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 1: informed me of what it was. My boyfriend had the 26 00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:00,559 Speaker 1: exact same thought of like, oh, that's kind of cool. 27 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:02,640 Speaker 1: I mean, can you imagine you go in for some 28 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 1: pie and coffee. It's great, but no, the twin peaks 29 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 1: are symbolic of breasts. Symbolic of breasts. Um. Also, the 30 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:19,640 Speaker 1: women where like comically small, like lumber jill outfits like 31 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 1: little plaid tops and little tiny ghaki shorts with ug boots. Now, Caroline, 32 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 1: you've been to Hooters, right, Caroline loves Hooters save the letters. Um. 33 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 1: I went once in high school on our like we 34 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 1: had senior lunch. Did you go for the wings? We 35 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 1: take out for the wings, but we went for like 36 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:47,120 Speaker 1: the This will be weird because the people that I 37 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 1: went with it was a group of like like artsy 38 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:54,800 Speaker 1: kids and like there were no jocks or like bros 39 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 1: with us at all. We were just like this is 40 00:02:56,840 --> 00:03:00,079 Speaker 1: this will be strange, the ironic Hooters trip to a 41 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:01,519 Speaker 1: Cooter ship. Yeah, you want to do? You want to 42 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 1: go get wing? And I don't remember the food being 43 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 1: very good. And I remember our our waitress being very 44 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 1: not happy about seeing like a bunch of seventeen and 45 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 1: eighteen year old sitting at a table. Oh, I'm sure 46 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 1: if you are a Hooters girl. And I say that 47 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 1: because that is the industry term for them, their Hooters 48 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:23,359 Speaker 1: Girls trademark capital. I mean, if I were a Hooters girl, 49 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:25,360 Speaker 1: I would not want to deal with the group of 50 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:29,799 Speaker 1: ironic uh customers. I have to say we were very polite. Oh, 51 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 1: I hope so we were not rude, but and we're 52 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 1: the wings good. I don't remember. It was a long 53 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 1: time ago, Kristen. I'm I'm almost thirty yearly and your 54 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 1: chicken wing memories must be preserved. Um. Now, I'm curious. 55 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 1: So how many international listeners are hearing us talk about 56 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 1: Hooters and have no idea what we're talking about? Their 57 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 1: international They are international. But I wonder how how like 58 00:03:55,680 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 1: if Hooters is such an pop culturally like immediate thing 59 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 1: as it is in the United States, Because you say Hooters, 60 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 1: everyone knows what you're talking about Oh yeah, Well, I 61 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 1: didn't know what Hooters was when I was a very 62 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 1: small child and my dad it was like, Dad was 63 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 1: taking me and a friend out and we're going to 64 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:18,280 Speaker 1: go like do touristy things around Atlanta and go to 65 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:21,040 Speaker 1: lunch all this stuff. And so we were in underground Atlanta, 66 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 1: which I won't bother to explain. It's kind of like 67 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 1: a shopping tourist district downtown. If you live in Atlanta, 68 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. But uh, there's a Hooters. 69 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 1: It's like the big downtown Atlanta Hooters in underground Atlanta. 70 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:36,960 Speaker 1: And being like seven, I was like, Dad, there's a restaurant. 71 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:39,040 Speaker 1: There's an owl, because he was clearly like trying to 72 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 1: figure out where we were going to eat, and I 73 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 1: was being helpful small Caroline and being like, there's a restaurant, 74 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 1: and he's like, no, we're not going there. Why not? 75 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:50,480 Speaker 1: It's got an owl. It looks so great. I'm hungry. Well, 76 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:52,920 Speaker 1: And for those of you who are not familiar with 77 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:59,600 Speaker 1: this Hooters thing, so Hooters is a mostly like wing place. 78 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 1: The signature dish is their chicken wings and it is 79 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 1: served by Hooters girls who wear orange hot pants and 80 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:11,240 Speaker 1: tank tops and or crop tops. Don't forget the shiny pantyhose. Yes, 81 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:17,120 Speaker 1: they wear those shiny iridescent uh panty hose and these 82 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:21,360 Speaker 1: very tight white tank tops that say Hooters across their 83 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:26,160 Speaker 1: boobs and where your ariola would be, you have giant 84 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:31,600 Speaker 1: oversized owl eyes because their mascot is a hoot owl 85 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 1: hooting nut your your Hooters which also side note, I 86 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:40,479 Speaker 1: think Hooters is maybe the worst nickname for breath. No, no, 87 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 1: I strongly disagree with you. I think jugs or knockers 88 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:46,599 Speaker 1: would be worse. And those are also names that have 89 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:49,600 Speaker 1: been incorporated into a restaurants. Yeah, we we can't get 90 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 1: ahead of ourselves with jugs and knockers. Um. And when 91 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:58,280 Speaker 1: we're talking about this whole restaurant industry today, a because 92 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:02,159 Speaker 1: we talked about the history of waitressing in our last 93 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 1: podcast and we had to talk about restaurants and the 94 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:12,160 Speaker 1: attentive service sector because these are just you know, kind 95 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:18,920 Speaker 1: of one off novelty restaurants. This is huge business, oh huge, 96 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:22,160 Speaker 1: absolutely huge. Um. And you can tell just how huge 97 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 1: it is by how many business publication articles there are 98 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 1: about it lately. Yeah, because I mean throughout the recession, 99 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:34,200 Speaker 1: this restaurant sector was the one that you saw growing 100 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:37,680 Speaker 1: while everyone else was languishing. And what's been interesting to 101 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 1: see is how Hooters, which is the original restaurant, at 102 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 1: least in the United States, is now considered quite family 103 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 1: friendly compared to places like Twin Peaks that we'll talk 104 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 1: about in a minute. But before we get into the 105 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:57,160 Speaker 1: origin of Hooters and the charming men who opened it, 106 00:06:57,320 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 1: should we give a little bit of bloomer history, like 107 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 1: the original old restaurants, which I guess we're more like 108 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:08,920 Speaker 1: ankle staurants. Yes, I am very excited about this. Um. 109 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 1: I love like thinking about how titillating women's ankles once were. 110 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 1: I think it's hysterical. So there was this short lived 111 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:25,320 Speaker 1: super sexy trend in the nineties and flamed out. Kristen like, 112 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 1: it was here and it was gone. People had too 113 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 1: much of ankles. They were like they were ankles starved, 114 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 1: and then they were like, I have had too much ankle, 115 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 1: ankle stuffed, ankle stuffed. But so eating out in restaurants 116 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 1: wasn't really a thing in this country, like we said 117 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 1: in our last episode, until about the mid nineteenth century, 118 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 1: and restaurants and waitresses weren't common until sort of the 119 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 1: turn of the twentieth century. So towards the end of 120 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 1: the nineteenth century, some restaurants catering to men offering a 121 00:07:55,520 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 1: sensual experience, so to speak, hired quote unquote waiter girls 122 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:05,440 Speaker 1: decked out in bloomers. Scandalous, and so a lot of 123 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 1: these restaurant owners and employer employers claimed that it's just practical. 124 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 1: You know, we're in the reform dress era. Bloomers and 125 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 1: reform dress that started becoming a thing in like the 126 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 1: eighteen fifties. Are biking. People are biking away from their 127 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 1: homes to go work in restaurants. And uh, but as 128 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 1: the decades passed, bloomers come up a little bit higher, 129 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:33,480 Speaker 1: so that there's even more calf and ankle, and so 130 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:37,559 Speaker 1: they're putting these scantily dressed so to speak. Just bear 131 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:40,600 Speaker 1: with me women in these restaurants for the benefit of 132 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 1: the male gaze. Yeah, so guys would come eat at 133 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:49,240 Speaker 1: these restaurants and ogle women's exposed calves and ankles, these 134 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:52,720 Speaker 1: bifurcated garments because I guess they would not be wearing 135 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 1: the New York skirts over them. It was just bloomers. 136 00:08:56,640 --> 00:09:01,320 Speaker 1: Lord could grief. So in eighteen nine. The first to 137 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 1: do so was Bloomer's Cafe, which I do think is 138 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:09,920 Speaker 1: the original Hooters Caroline Bloomer's Cafe in San Francisco, followed 139 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:14,360 Speaker 1: by St. Louis, New York, Oakland, and Chicago. In Chicago, 140 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 1: though the authorities closed Bloomer's Cafe siting morality. Yeah, as 141 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 1: we discussed in our last episode about Waitresses, Chicago was 142 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:30,040 Speaker 1: a huge site of both booming metropolis women coming in 143 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 1: from rural areas to get jobs in the big city 144 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:36,719 Speaker 1: and be independent and earn a living wage um, and 145 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 1: also the site of a lot of progressive air reforms 146 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 1: that happened We're happening in cities across the country at 147 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 1: that time, from people being like, uh, people are getting 148 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:48,440 Speaker 1: enough fresh air and women are working outside the home. 149 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 1: It's terrifying. What do we do? We have to save 150 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:55,520 Speaker 1: them from themselves, and so, yeah, it's not surprising that 151 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 1: these the uh the Bloomer centric restaurant in Chicago would 152 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:01,960 Speaker 1: have been closed for morality re Bloomer's Cafe. But just 153 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 1: imagine if those same people who shut down Bloomer's Cafe 154 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:10,560 Speaker 1: walked in to Twin Peaks today and they were greeted 155 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:16,199 Speaker 1: by one of their quote unquote lumber jills wearing a croptop. 156 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 1: I mean like by croptop, I mean it comes up 157 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:21,400 Speaker 1: right below where your boobs end hugs you under boob, 158 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:28,680 Speaker 1: tiny khaki shorts and then ug style boots. Um, they 159 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 1: would be scandalized. I mean imagine all the calf, all 160 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 1: the calf is, honest, God, and the mid section although 161 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:37,520 Speaker 1: no ankle. You can't see the ankle. You can't. So 162 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:40,800 Speaker 1: maybe they'd be a little more comfortable at Twin Peaks. 163 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:45,640 Speaker 1: Who knows. Um. Twin Peaks also has been in the 164 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:50,000 Speaker 1: news this past year in when we're talking about it, 165 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:53,599 Speaker 1: there was that Waco, Texas shooting in May at a 166 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:56,240 Speaker 1: Twin Peaks that got people talking a lot about Twin 167 00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:59,839 Speaker 1: Peaks um and also saying, oh, by the way, this 168 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:05,720 Speaker 1: was the fastest growing restaurant chain in the United States. Yes, 169 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 1: restaurants are booming, I mean booming. Okay, conger. Well, so well, 170 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:13,839 Speaker 1: what does it say, What does it mean that like 171 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:22,720 Speaker 1: such a retrograde to the point of business model is thriving. Well, 172 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 1: all these all these chains and restaurants have in common 173 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 1: comfort food, a lot of beer, sports TV. I'm on 174 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:34,040 Speaker 1: boards so far, I like a slider and beer as 175 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 1: much as the next person, and sexy customer service because 176 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:40,680 Speaker 1: you can go to Chili's if you want, you know, 177 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 1: burger and beer and to watch the game, but you 178 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:45,960 Speaker 1: can only get your lumber jills at certain places. Yeah. 179 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 1: And I mean it makes sense though in light of 180 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 1: our last episode, because you've got men shelling out all 181 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:55,720 Speaker 1: this money in places where women have to cater to 182 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 1: them in a day and age when women are achieving 183 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:02,800 Speaker 1: more and more success, more and more inroads into professional 184 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:07,680 Speaker 1: life and industry. Um and on top of that, they're 185 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:11,320 Speaker 1: wearing basically bathing suits. Yeah, I mean, and it's a 186 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:17,840 Speaker 1: very gendered dynamics, so around of restaurant customers are men 187 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:23,400 Speaker 1: and of servers are women. Um. So, I mean, you 188 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 1: can see what's going on here. Um. And it's also 189 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:32,679 Speaker 1: worthwhile to consider how Hooters girls and others are stereotyped. 190 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:35,240 Speaker 1: I mean, it's not just a thing of oh, these 191 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 1: these guys are, you know, paying to see young women 192 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:42,439 Speaker 1: on display and serve them food. It's also looking down 193 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:46,560 Speaker 1: culturally on young women who choose to have these jobs 194 00:12:46,559 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 1: and might even enjoy working at these jobs and make 195 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:50,600 Speaker 1: a lot of money at these jobs. Yeah, I get 196 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:53,000 Speaker 1: lots of tips working their way through school, that kind 197 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 1: of thing. And one phrase it comes up in a 198 00:12:55,679 --> 00:13:00,400 Speaker 1: lot of these industry articles about restaurants Caroline is man caves. 199 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 1: The whole concept is taking the man cave, which we 200 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 1: dedicated an entire podcast too, and co modifying it, putting 201 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:10,200 Speaker 1: it out in public. If you get a little lonely 202 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 1: in your man cave, come on over Twin Peaks, come 203 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 1: on over to Tilt Kilt, come on over to Bone 204 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:19,720 Speaker 1: Daddy's House of Smoke. Yeah, I had to google Bone 205 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:22,959 Speaker 1: Daddy's House of Smoke and Brick House Tavern because I've 206 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:25,720 Speaker 1: never heard of them, because they're really Texas based, which 207 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:29,560 Speaker 1: is interesting because also side note like these types of 208 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:34,559 Speaker 1: restaurants are most successful in Texas. Um, they make their 209 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 1: most most money there. Um. But yeah, it's it's interesting 210 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:40,800 Speaker 1: to me that Brick House taverns specifically on their website 211 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:43,760 Speaker 1: you would never know. You would never know that their 212 00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 1: gimmick is uh, scantily clad busty women. Um, it's just you. Literally, 213 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 1: you got a website and it's like a burger and 214 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:54,680 Speaker 1: shot in a very food porny way, like dripping with 215 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:56,680 Speaker 1: cheese and stuff and you scroll down, I'm like, Okay, 216 00:13:56,679 --> 00:13:58,240 Speaker 1: where is it going to tell me about all the 217 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 1: hot waitresses or whatever? Um, which is maybe the first 218 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 1: time and the last time I will ever say that. 219 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 1: But no, it's purely focused on just food and beer. 220 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:09,960 Speaker 1: And so I wonder if their whole strategy is like, no, 221 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:13,719 Speaker 1: we're not like Hooters. Yeah, so you have really attractive 222 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 1: waitresses who make you feel good about your masculinity, but 223 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:19,880 Speaker 1: also this burger will make you feel even better and 224 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 1: it's safe for work. You wanna you wanna google that? 225 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 1: Be like, oh, they're going they're going to brick what 226 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:28,880 Speaker 1: is it? Brick house, brick house, tavernya Google? Oh, it's fine, 227 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:32,200 Speaker 1: It's just cheese burgers. So how did all of this 228 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:35,240 Speaker 1: get started? What? What's the Hooters back story? How that 229 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:39,320 Speaker 1: little place start? The Hooters origin story is just a 230 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 1: couple of friends who were up to no good started 231 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 1: making trouble in clear Water, Florida. So April one, three 232 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 1: six friends had scraped together about a hundred and forty 233 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 1: thousand dollars to open the first Hooters in Clearwater, Florida, 234 00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:00,600 Speaker 1: and u Ed Dross, who's the co found who would 235 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:02,680 Speaker 1: later go on by the way, to marry. A Hooters 236 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 1: girl described the group of friends as six clueless knuckle 237 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 1: heads who called ourselves the Hooters Six. He said, we 238 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:12,360 Speaker 1: wanted to open a neighborhood joint with a beach theme 239 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 1: that we couldn't get kicked out of, presumably because if 240 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:20,720 Speaker 1: you're just being gross and ogling waitresses and whatever at 241 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:23,440 Speaker 1: another restaurant, which does happen. It's not like that doesn't happen. 242 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:26,360 Speaker 1: If you're too rowdy and gross, you might get kicked out, 243 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 1: but not a Hooter. Not at Hooter. Come on over. 244 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 1: And the whole story that you see over and over 245 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:34,840 Speaker 1: again and most of the business pieces on the rise 246 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:38,800 Speaker 1: and success of the Hooters franchise is how these guys 247 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 1: had no idea what they were doing. I mean, they 248 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:44,480 Speaker 1: really just kind of wanted a man cave essentially. Um. 249 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 1: They opened on April Fools, which is apparently hilarious mistake 250 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 1: to make. They really didn't know how to cook anything, 251 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 1: they didn't know how to advertise, um, but they were 252 00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:03,160 Speaker 1: able to push on through using these kinds of grassroots 253 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:05,880 Speaker 1: which I feel like it's too dignified a term. Grassroots 254 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:10,000 Speaker 1: advertising techniques to get people in the door. And it 255 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:16,840 Speaker 1: was really getting the first Hooters girl, Lynn Austin, to 256 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 1: be their spokesperson spokes boobs essentially um and in n 257 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:28,520 Speaker 1: Lynn Austin is named Playboys Miss July. And this is 258 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:34,000 Speaker 1: hooters first ever national exposure and with that thanks to Playboy, 259 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:38,440 Speaker 1: thanks to Lynn Austin business sword Yeah, and it's been 260 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 1: soaring ever since. They're almost a one billion dollar a 261 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 1: year business with their international restaurants selling more than thirty 262 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 1: million pounds of chicken wings per year. They also, in 263 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:53,560 Speaker 1: case you're worried about them limiting themselves, they also have 264 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 1: a golf tour, racing car circuits. They had an airline 265 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 1: for a minute, a magazine which does exist. I went 266 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:06,960 Speaker 1: to the magazine's Facebook page. That's what you did. You'd expect. 267 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:10,680 Speaker 1: Is it just like Playboy? No, it's it's more. It's 268 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:14,800 Speaker 1: more of a newsletter. Yes, yeah, no, I mean it's 269 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:17,600 Speaker 1: it's uh So, there was the Hooters Calendar, which I 270 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:20,080 Speaker 1: think still exists, and it's just sort of a magazine 271 00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:23,400 Speaker 1: form of the Hooters Calendar where it's no, there's no nudity, 272 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 1: it's just attractive women and Hooters outfits and then some 273 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:38,200 Speaker 1: information about something. And that's so perfect clearly, I'm a subscriber. 274 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:40,879 Speaker 1: You know they well, they even have their own Vegas 275 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:45,679 Speaker 1: casino hotel and they've been super successful, um in opening 276 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 1: a location in an Atlantic city casino. They don't offer 277 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:53,159 Speaker 1: any comps for gamblers or anything like like that, but 278 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 1: they have found a lot of success. Yeah. I mean, 279 00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:59,880 Speaker 1: there are more than four hundred restaurants Hooters restaurants into 280 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:04,000 Speaker 1: twenty seven countries around the world, which is rather astonishing. 281 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:10,159 Speaker 1: I mean. More recently, business has shrunk from it closed 282 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:14,480 Speaker 1: seven percent of its restaurants, but the industry at large 283 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:18,960 Speaker 1: is still thriving. I mean, and some people think that 284 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 1: the reason why the restaurants have closed isn't because people 285 00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:27,959 Speaker 1: are uncomfortable with this retrograde business model, but rather because 286 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 1: the business has just out diversified, out diversified. But Randy DeWitt, 287 00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:38,760 Speaker 1: who's the Twin Peaks founder, would argue that it's just 288 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:42,320 Speaker 1: not racy enough Hooters. Is that that is to say 289 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 1: that there there are families, Kristen families are going to Hooters. 290 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:48,879 Speaker 1: That is not a man cave, that is not racy. 291 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:50,879 Speaker 1: That doesn't make a man feel good about himself to 292 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:56,919 Speaker 1: spend time with his uh So, Randy DeWitt founded Twin Peaks. 293 00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 1: Like we mentioned, it's out one of the fastest growing 294 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 1: restaurant chains the United States. Not David Lynch themed, unfortunately, 295 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:08,920 Speaker 1: it's all Mountain lodge with lumber jills as your servers 296 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:14,120 Speaker 1: and lessen. Speaking to Entrepreneur magazine, DeWitt really didn't pull 297 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 1: any punches about their premise. He said, quote, what more 298 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:21,280 Speaker 1: could a guy ask for? Great food, sports beer, and 299 00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:26,440 Speaker 1: a cute girl to look at. We don't go real deep, yeah, which, 300 00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:30,359 Speaker 1: although the training kind of does go real deep. I 301 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:36,280 Speaker 1: mean these these women are groomed to be appropriate lumber jills. Yeah. 302 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 1: They practiced touchology Kristen, which I was like, whoa, what 303 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:43,600 Speaker 1: is that touchology? That sounds illegal? Is that acupuncture? Well 304 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:46,360 Speaker 1: that would be nice, um, but no, it's it's it's 305 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:48,359 Speaker 1: just touching the table a lot. I assumed it would 306 00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 1: be like the waitress has to like massage the customer, 307 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:53,760 Speaker 1: but no, it's just to like lean in and touch 308 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:55,879 Speaker 1: the table and know that like, hey, we're buds, and 309 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:58,600 Speaker 1: I'm not like, I'm not like those those mean waitresses 310 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:01,040 Speaker 1: who just bring the food and lea well, and you 311 00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:03,399 Speaker 1: might also get a little shoulder touch or an arm 312 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:07,199 Speaker 1: touch depending on the level of touch ology happening, and 313 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:11,119 Speaker 1: servers are instructed on how to speak with and interact 314 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:15,120 Speaker 1: with the guests. Yeah, you've got to make a connection. Um. 315 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:18,040 Speaker 1: De Witt said that sometimes waitresses are providing the best 316 00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:21,399 Speaker 1: part of a guest's day. Now, this though, Caroline, is 317 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 1: where I am on board. One of their signature features 318 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:28,480 Speaker 1: at twin Peaks is that they sort of really really 319 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:30,359 Speaker 1: really cold beer. All their beer has to come out 320 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:32,400 Speaker 1: of like twenty nine degrees. And I don't know why 321 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:34,720 Speaker 1: I'm trying to like give like a bonus points to 322 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:39,000 Speaker 1: twin Peaks or anything, but they do have that. But 323 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 1: those beers come in either girl sizes that's a quote 324 00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:47,880 Speaker 1: or man size, which who knows how many ounces? I can't. 325 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:52,199 Speaker 1: I can't count higher than ten um. But yeah, they 326 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:54,920 Speaker 1: had a branding document that was leaked by a twin 327 00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:58,480 Speaker 1: Peaks employee. UM and of course de Witt and other 328 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 1: higher ups at twin Peaks for like, this was not official, 329 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:04,960 Speaker 1: We never released this, but the leaking employee said no, 330 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:07,359 Speaker 1: it was sent to a lot of people. But so 331 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:11,720 Speaker 1: it describes twin Peaks patron identity as I believe in freedom, 332 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:15,600 Speaker 1: bacon working hard and playing harder. So like Ron Swanson 333 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:20,360 Speaker 1: or or DoD roommate, but On Swanson or dude roommates 334 00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 1: certainly would not go to Twin Peaks on a lunch break. 335 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:27,840 Speaker 1: Do you think I'm just blinking blankly at you about 336 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 1: dude roommate anyway? Um other stuff in that branding doc 337 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 1: assumes that their patron likes attention from beautiful girls and 338 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:41,399 Speaker 1: being recognized in front of the guys. I got game. 339 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:43,679 Speaker 1: I deserve to drink a cold beer and catch the 340 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:47,000 Speaker 1: game without being asked what I'm thinking. I mean fair 341 00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:50,960 Speaker 1: enough for that. Sometimes sometimes you do just want to 342 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:53,400 Speaker 1: go somewhere and not be asked how you feel. But see, 343 00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:56,640 Speaker 1: this is where I am not the customer like a 344 00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:59,639 Speaker 1: prime Twin Peaks customer, not only because I am a 345 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:03,200 Speaker 1: woman and but also because that kind of touchology and 346 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:10,000 Speaker 1: intense server customer interaction does not relax me whatsoever. The 347 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:12,600 Speaker 1: kind of the kind of a you know, an office 348 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:14,720 Speaker 1: space where does he work? He works at like a 349 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:17,840 Speaker 1: or Jennifer Anderson's character works at a t G I 350 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:20,000 Speaker 1: Friday's ask place where it's like, hey, my name is 351 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 1: Still and Still I'm gonna be taking care of you tonight, 352 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:24,960 Speaker 1: leans down, you know, kneels down the floor, elbows on 353 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:28,840 Speaker 1: the table, and I'm just like, I don't know, I'll 354 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:31,880 Speaker 1: have the poppers and I'm quiet. Why are you so 355 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 1: intense right now? No one's this happy? Um. But the 356 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:41,960 Speaker 1: question is why is this so successful? I mean this 357 00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:45,520 Speaker 1: particular model, because, like you said, Hooters is pulling in 358 00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:49,840 Speaker 1: nearly one billion dollars annually. We have new chains like 359 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:54,119 Speaker 1: this popping up, especially in Texas. Even still, what is 360 00:22:54,160 --> 00:23:00,240 Speaker 1: it about this man cave vibe that is bringing so 361 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:03,200 Speaker 1: much bank? Well, part of it for some of these 362 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:07,359 Speaker 1: restaurants is that it's more family friendly than going to 363 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:10,920 Speaker 1: the strip club. It's more maybe socially acceptable than going 364 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:13,480 Speaker 1: to the strip club. Um, you get to go and 365 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:16,240 Speaker 1: get waited on by a young woman who's paid to 366 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:19,600 Speaker 1: be attentive to you, and really not be afraid that 367 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:22,080 Speaker 1: will necessarily I don't know, it depends, I guess, but 368 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:24,400 Speaker 1: not be afraid that it's going to cause a big 369 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 1: fight with the wife if you had gone, for instance, 370 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,719 Speaker 1: to a strip club and had a stake there instead. Well, 371 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:33,800 Speaker 1: because consider where a lot of these restaurants are located. 372 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:36,840 Speaker 1: There in suburbia where ay you're probably not going to 373 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:39,119 Speaker 1: find a strip club to begin with, and be you 374 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:41,960 Speaker 1: have those kind of hometown American values, we don't go 375 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:44,359 Speaker 1: to strip clubs, get those out of the neighborhood. But 376 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:47,240 Speaker 1: instead you can go to Twin Peaks and it's fine, 377 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:50,560 Speaker 1: you know, because these are just wholesome American women who 378 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:52,680 Speaker 1: are earning a wage to get through college. Which I'm 379 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 1: not being sarcastic when I say that there are a 380 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:59,440 Speaker 1: lot of women who are putting themselves through college via restaurants, 381 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:03,800 Speaker 1: but it's just that it's it's fascinating to think about 382 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:08,719 Speaker 1: how they are. I think about what they provide, the 383 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:13,280 Speaker 1: commodity that's really there, because it's these women's bodies that 384 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 1: are first sale. I mean, um Ron Lynch, who's the 385 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:21,359 Speaker 1: CEO of the Arizona based Tilted Kilt restaurant chain, says, 386 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:24,560 Speaker 1: we make no bones about it. That's what brings people in. 387 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 1: We sell on sex appeal, but we are sexy, classy, sexy, smart, 388 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:32,280 Speaker 1: or sexy cute, not sexy stupid or sexy trashy. And 389 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,720 Speaker 1: that sounds to me like a family friendly strip club 390 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:37,920 Speaker 1: of sorts. Well yeah, and he goes on to say 391 00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 1: that Tilted Killed is classier than Hooters, which he refers 392 00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:44,520 Speaker 1: to as blue collar. And there's also a lot of 393 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:46,639 Speaker 1: talk around these types of restaurants of how do we 394 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:50,119 Speaker 1: attract women and pay attention to women, even though like, 395 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:53,840 Speaker 1: of course our core uh demographic is is men, but 396 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,320 Speaker 1: we also need to be able to make women feel comfortable, 397 00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:58,600 Speaker 1: especially if they're the ones making the decision about where 398 00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:00,440 Speaker 1: to go out to eat. So yeah, like we said, 399 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 1: waitresses are instructed to make a connection with the customers, 400 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:05,359 Speaker 1: but if a family comes in or a group of 401 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:09,240 Speaker 1: a mixed group of people, they're instructed at Tilted Kilt 402 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 1: to make a connection with the woman first. And Darren Tristanna, 403 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:17,879 Speaker 1: who is the executive vice president of Technomic, which is 404 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:21,200 Speaker 1: a food industry consulting firm in Chicago, said that these 405 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:24,120 Speaker 1: restaurants have to target women if they want to be 406 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:28,639 Speaker 1: successful because women already make up a third of on 407 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:31,520 Speaker 1: average a third of the customer base of these restaurants. 408 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,440 Speaker 1: And Tristano side note, does claim to have coined the 409 00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:37,640 Speaker 1: term restaurant and his name does pop up in any 410 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 1: kind of industry ish article you read about this. Um 411 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:44,199 Speaker 1: So there's a lot going on. I mean, there are 412 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:49,160 Speaker 1: a lot of layers to this um, and we've talked 413 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:55,720 Speaker 1: a lot about the perception of that customer server, lumber Jill, Hooters, 414 00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:59,280 Speaker 1: girl dynamic. But what is it really like for women 415 00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:01,800 Speaker 1: who are working at these establishments, Because I think the 416 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:05,440 Speaker 1: knee jerk assumption is that, oh, it's horrible, or they're 417 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:10,320 Speaker 1: selling themselves there, airheads, however you want to put it. 418 00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:14,360 Speaker 1: I don't think that we tend to socially think highly 419 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:18,639 Speaker 1: of women who are doing these jobs. So in the 420 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:21,200 Speaker 1: first half of the podcast, I think we outlined our 421 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:28,640 Speaker 1: disdain restaurants. Or is it disdain, it's it's really more 422 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 1: it's really more of an eye roll. And I use 423 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,879 Speaker 1: that term specifically because we did get a letter in 424 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:42,240 Speaker 1: the wake of our man cave episode from a gentleman 425 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:44,719 Speaker 1: who said that he needed to stop listening to us 426 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:48,119 Speaker 1: because he felt that we were heavily eye rolling about 427 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:51,960 Speaker 1: man caves the whole the whole time, and we were. 428 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:55,480 Speaker 1: We were rolling our eyes at man caves, and not 429 00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:59,120 Speaker 1: that they exist, like everybody needs a space, the room 430 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:03,640 Speaker 1: of one's own, but just the fact that they are 431 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:09,200 Speaker 1: reasons and methods of reasons, foreign methods of avoiding your family, 432 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:14,040 Speaker 1: avoiding the household, labor things like that, the fact that 433 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:17,520 Speaker 1: they are so stereotypically uh, you know, like the sexy 434 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 1: naked calendar on the wall, the video games, the gig 435 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:24,080 Speaker 1: gator like and and so it's not so much that 436 00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:28,440 Speaker 1: we have disdain for man caves or for restaurants. It's 437 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:31,679 Speaker 1: it's more just that we roll our eyes at the 438 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:37,520 Speaker 1: hyper heavily gendered spaces like this. Well, and obviously, as 439 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 1: a feminist, I'm not gonna really enjoy hearing men like 440 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:47,160 Speaker 1: Twin Peaks founder Ron do Wit refer to his employees 441 00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:51,800 Speaker 1: as quote, weapons of mass distraction. I mean, the job 442 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:57,000 Speaker 1: is essentially set up for these women to be constantly objectified. 443 00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:00,359 Speaker 1: They don't even wear uniforms or costumes, which is partially 444 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:03,399 Speaker 1: illegal thing as we'll talk about in a minute. But 445 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 1: that doesn't necessarily mean as is, because um, there does 446 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:13,960 Speaker 1: seem to be a correlation perception wise between restaurant workers 447 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:18,919 Speaker 1: and strippers. And just as I think it's um really 448 00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:21,720 Speaker 1: short sighted to assume that all strippers hate their job 449 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:26,320 Speaker 1: and are disempowered by that, um, I think the same 450 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:30,359 Speaker 1: can be said for women who are working at restaurants 451 00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:33,960 Speaker 1: as well, because anecdotally, in reading up on this there 452 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:37,480 Speaker 1: were plenty of young women who said, I really enjoy 453 00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:40,320 Speaker 1: working at Twin Peaks. It's you know, I have a 454 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:43,400 Speaker 1: lot of friends that work there. It's really fun. They 455 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:49,640 Speaker 1: don't they don't feel like they're necessarily compromising anything. Um 456 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:54,320 Speaker 1: but but there are a lot of standards for working 457 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:58,880 Speaker 1: at places, especially more higher in places like uh, Twin Peaks, 458 00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:02,120 Speaker 1: because you have to look apart, because you are more 459 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:08,000 Speaker 1: performer than just waitress. Yeah, so Twin Peaks employees, it 460 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:12,360 Speaker 1: turns out, get discounts at gym's, at nail salons and 461 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:15,720 Speaker 1: tanning salons to make sure that they can maintain that look. 462 00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:20,360 Speaker 1: They also are fed a diet menu at work to 463 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:23,240 Speaker 1: help them avoid gaining any weight over and above what 464 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:26,480 Speaker 1: they weighed when they were hired. Speaking to The New 465 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,760 Speaker 1: York Times, for instance, a former Hooters girl named Shana 466 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:33,520 Speaker 1: Costello said, quote, it's a performance. Your hair has to 467 00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:35,600 Speaker 1: be perfect, just like it would be if you were 468 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:37,440 Speaker 1: going on a job interview, and you have to be 469 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:41,040 Speaker 1: friendly to the customers for your entire shift. Not every 470 00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:44,520 Speaker 1: girl can be a Hooters girl, and I would agree 471 00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:48,040 Speaker 1: with that. I mean, that's it's definitely all of these things. 472 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:51,000 Speaker 1: How you look and how you act are very particular 473 00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:56,560 Speaker 1: parts of the job requirement and in Business Insider interviewed 474 00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:01,680 Speaker 1: on anonymous Hooters waitress and her telling of it working 475 00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 1: at Hooters was not all that bad. It was helping 476 00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:09,080 Speaker 1: her paper college, and she said, yeah, sure, servers get 477 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:13,320 Speaker 1: hit on inappropriately sometimes, but that's gonna happen regardless of 478 00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:16,120 Speaker 1: where you're working if you are a waitress, so you 479 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:19,120 Speaker 1: might as well do it and make probably better tips 480 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:23,640 Speaker 1: at Hooters versus doing that at say, Chili's. Yeah, one 481 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:27,000 Speaker 1: the Hooters waitress that they talked to who was working 482 00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:31,440 Speaker 1: in that Atlantic city um casino location, was saying that 483 00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:35,560 Speaker 1: she had previously been like a casino cocktail waitress, where 484 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:38,720 Speaker 1: when you brought someone a drink, they might their tip 485 00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:42,360 Speaker 1: might be just a thank you or not even you know. So, yeah, 486 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:44,280 Speaker 1: you might get a high roller who's giving you hundreds 487 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:46,680 Speaker 1: of dollars because you're prettier whatever, and you're bringing him 488 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:50,560 Speaker 1: a scotch, but you also might make nothing, whereas she said, 489 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:54,920 Speaker 1: when she moved over to Hooters from the casino, she 490 00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:58,880 Speaker 1: suddenly was making consistently high tips from men who yes, 491 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,520 Speaker 1: we're there to look at her and her co workers, 492 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:05,640 Speaker 1: but it wasn't nearly the same, like I just might 493 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:09,560 Speaker 1: not get paid well. And that Hooters server. I hate 494 00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:13,800 Speaker 1: calling them Hooters girls. It just does seem demeaning. Um. 495 00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:17,160 Speaker 1: The one who was talking to Business Insider emphasize the 496 00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:21,040 Speaker 1: family friendly environment. She was like, we have babies who 497 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:23,640 Speaker 1: come in. We have baby babies just walk in off 498 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:30,120 Speaker 1: baby there with their briefcases. Is little baby Fedora's um 499 00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:34,200 Speaker 1: and how wives are in there. It's not a big deal. 500 00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:36,200 Speaker 1: But that also goes to what de Witt was saying 501 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:39,400 Speaker 1: in terms of well Twin Peaks is working because Hooters 502 00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:43,480 Speaker 1: is now a family friendly style restaurant. But there was 503 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:45,800 Speaker 1: also a note in those articles too about how some 504 00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:49,720 Speaker 1: Twin Peaks locations were starting to request booster seats, which 505 00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:53,000 Speaker 1: was surprising to do it of like, oh, okay, so 506 00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:56,960 Speaker 1: some families also want to come here. But an aggregate, 507 00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:01,000 Speaker 1: it's not all positive out there. If you are working 508 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:05,480 Speaker 1: in one of these restaurant environments. Yeah, because sure, yes, 509 00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:08,040 Speaker 1: that one waitress is correct, that you are going to 510 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:13,000 Speaker 1: be hit on, asked out, sexually harassed basically at any 511 00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:18,080 Speaker 1: restaurant setting. Sure that's true, but there is evidence suggesting 512 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:20,760 Speaker 1: that it might be worse in restaurants, and this is 513 00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:24,440 Speaker 1: coming from a business Insider study. They wanted to look 514 00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:28,880 Speaker 1: into this whole objectification of Hooters waitresses or restaurant waitresses 515 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:31,040 Speaker 1: and find out what kind of psychological toll it took 516 00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:34,360 Speaker 1: on people. And they found that waitresses working in restaurants 517 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:39,000 Speaker 1: that sexually objectified their employees were more likely to experience 518 00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:42,640 Speaker 1: a host of negative interactions with customers that ranged from 519 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:46,560 Speaker 1: unwanted advances to lew to comments. They were also far 520 00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:51,320 Speaker 1: more likely to internalize cultural standards of beauty, experienced symptoms 521 00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:53,360 Speaker 1: of depression, and were more likely to be likely to 522 00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:56,200 Speaker 1: be dissatisfied with their jobs. So basically, the more these 523 00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:58,560 Speaker 1: women were on display, the more they were compelled to 524 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:00,720 Speaker 1: go to the tanning salon, go to the gym, eat 525 00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:03,920 Speaker 1: the diet menu, the worst they ended up feeling about 526 00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:10,360 Speaker 1: their job. And that finding controlled for working in non 527 00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:14,400 Speaker 1: restaurant restaurants, because the first study just kind of looked 528 00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:17,560 Speaker 1: at the whole you know, psychological toll across the board, 529 00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:21,080 Speaker 1: and you know, it's like, yeah, this this isn't so great. 530 00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:24,240 Speaker 1: But this follow up study confirmed that no, it's not 531 00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:29,440 Speaker 1: just serving, it's serving in these kinds of places and 532 00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:32,880 Speaker 1: and women, though, put up with this because of these 533 00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:37,080 Speaker 1: studies found the money and the flexibility. I mean, we 534 00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:40,120 Speaker 1: keep in mind from the last episode that we did 535 00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:43,840 Speaker 1: on waitressing, these are tipped employees in the United States. 536 00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:47,120 Speaker 1: That means that they're probably taking home a base pay 537 00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:50,240 Speaker 1: of only two dollars and thirteen cents an hour. So 538 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:53,440 Speaker 1: you've got to be making those tips, you know, if 539 00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:56,120 Speaker 1: you really want it to kind of pay out for 540 00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:58,560 Speaker 1: you and it and it seems like anecdotally it does 541 00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:01,640 Speaker 1: work that way. I couldn't find any good statistics on 542 00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:06,240 Speaker 1: the average income of a Twin Peaks Twin Peaks lumber Jill. 543 00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,759 Speaker 1: Unfortunately that maybe we have some listening who can fill 544 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:14,240 Speaker 1: us in. Um, but we're talking way too much about women, Kristen. 545 00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:16,400 Speaker 1: We need to get into the gendered aspects of the 546 00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:18,560 Speaker 1: people who want to work at these restaurants, some of 547 00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:21,920 Speaker 1: whom are men. Yeah. So in the nineties, which seems 548 00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:24,359 Speaker 1: like it was really the heyday of Hooters, things were 549 00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:29,000 Speaker 1: picking up steam. And side note, it is incredible sitting 550 00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:32,680 Speaker 1: here to look back at the nineties and see how 551 00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:38,200 Speaker 1: gender dynamics were not as as progressed as they are today. 552 00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:40,920 Speaker 1: Not so long ago. The nineties nineties were whack y'all 553 00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:47,560 Speaker 1: in some ways. So Hooters starts getting pressure from the 554 00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:52,560 Speaker 1: e o C, the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission to hire dudes, 555 00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:54,880 Speaker 1: and the e o C was like, hey, that's a 556 00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:57,200 Speaker 1: good point, because these guys would go into Hooters, they'd 557 00:34:57,200 --> 00:34:59,520 Speaker 1: want to serve, and Hooters would be like, not, dude, 558 00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:01,440 Speaker 1: you're not a girl. What are you doing here? Get away? 559 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:08,080 Speaker 1: Not exactly fair hiring practices. So Hooters responded with a 560 00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:13,720 Speaker 1: fake march on Washington. They were rallied one hundred Hooters 561 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:17,640 Speaker 1: girls to carry banners that read slogans such as one 562 00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:22,680 Speaker 1: hundred Angry Women and It's not PMS, which really again 563 00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:26,120 Speaker 1: reflects like how this this company is just you know, 564 00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:30,160 Speaker 1: so playful and edgy and really respects its female employees. Yeah. 565 00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:33,799 Speaker 1: One march participant told a reporter that it was this 566 00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:37,839 Speaker 1: march was really important because she wanted to save her job. Yeah, 567 00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:40,520 Speaker 1: I mean, and I think that that she might have 568 00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:44,240 Speaker 1: believed that, but at the same time, like how many 569 00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:46,840 Speaker 1: how many guys really wanted to go in and steal 570 00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:49,440 Speaker 1: all those Hooters jobs? Well, I mean, this march is 571 00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:52,279 Speaker 1: also along the same lines of the as you put it, 572 00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:57,200 Speaker 1: quote unquote grassroots advertising and marketing efforts that the original 573 00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:01,000 Speaker 1: Hooters six had had done to try to get people 574 00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:03,000 Speaker 1: to come to their restaurants. And so I think it's 575 00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:05,560 Speaker 1: just more of more of the same, that they're just 576 00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:09,640 Speaker 1: staging a fake protest to to get attention and in 577 00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:14,200 Speaker 1: Hooters finally reached a three point seven five million dollar 578 00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:19,040 Speaker 1: class action sex discrimination settlement which was brought by these 579 00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:22,040 Speaker 1: men around the country who would unsuccessfully try to get 580 00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:26,440 Speaker 1: jobs at Hooters, and the Chicago Tribune reported that the 581 00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:30,120 Speaker 1: plaineiff said they saw jobs as bartenders, waiters, or servers, 582 00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:34,840 Speaker 1: not as Hooters girls. And Hooters made this argument that 583 00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:37,840 Speaker 1: was really actually important in this settlement and laid the 584 00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:42,720 Speaker 1: groundwork for other places like a Twin Peaks are Tilted 585 00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:48,280 Speaker 1: kilt Um, which said that it's hiring practice were based 586 00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:52,480 Speaker 1: on a quote bona fide occupational qualification. In other words, 587 00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:55,600 Speaker 1: being a woman and an attractive woman at that is 588 00:36:55,719 --> 00:37:00,320 Speaker 1: essential to their I guess business mom at all. I 589 00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:02,160 Speaker 1: mean it's all built on that. It's one of the 590 00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:05,240 Speaker 1: tools of their trade. Yeah, and so therefore they should 591 00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:10,560 Speaker 1: be exempt from federal discrimination policies. Um. Hooters did agree, though, 592 00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:16,720 Speaker 1: to open three gender neutral positions staff host and bar assistant. Um. 593 00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:20,040 Speaker 1: But when the Chicago Tribune talked to some customers, not 594 00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:22,360 Speaker 1: everybody was happy. They're basically like, why you gotta be 595 00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:26,480 Speaker 1: why you gotta be coming in here? Oh, Bob Vassilenko 596 00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:31,360 Speaker 1: did not handle this news. Well, this is he said quote. 597 00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:33,640 Speaker 1: Maybe they should open a sister or I guess it 598 00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:36,360 Speaker 1: would be a brother club called Scootahs and let the 599 00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:40,439 Speaker 1: guys work there and leave this one alone. I mean, 600 00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:44,879 Speaker 1: Bob was losing, just pulled his hair out. So many 601 00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:48,279 Speaker 1: go to Scoodas, but what would their outfits be? I 602 00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:52,839 Speaker 1: wonder hot pants and crop tops go to Scootas and 603 00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:55,479 Speaker 1: hopefully I would like to see a guy in those. Um, 604 00:37:55,640 --> 00:38:03,680 Speaker 1: those iridescent hosieries really emphasizes your calf muscles, you know, um, 605 00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:08,360 Speaker 1: just like all grease stuff. Um. But yeah, you know 606 00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:11,280 Speaker 1: you you hinted at something earlier christen By by talking 607 00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:15,120 Speaker 1: about being a Hooters girl or a Twin Peaks waitress 608 00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:18,160 Speaker 1: or whatever as being a performance, and that being sort 609 00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:20,440 Speaker 1: of key to this whole legal distinction, that it's more 610 00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:24,880 Speaker 1: than just saying their performers. It's literally being like no, uh, 611 00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:28,440 Speaker 1: this is how we managed to get away with this. Um, 612 00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:32,560 Speaker 1: you know, we're not discriminating. Our cast, so to speak, 613 00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:36,160 Speaker 1: is attractive young women. Yeah, you don't go an interview 614 00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:38,880 Speaker 1: for a job at Twin Peaks, you audition for it. 615 00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:42,520 Speaker 1: Don't wear uniform, you wear a costume. And those kinds 616 00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:49,600 Speaker 1: of terms are very intentional to legally allow these places 617 00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:53,520 Speaker 1: to mandate girls coming to work with their hair done 618 00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:56,120 Speaker 1: a certain way, coming to work with full makeup on, 619 00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:58,799 Speaker 1: and wearing these kinds of clothes, because there have been 620 00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:03,160 Speaker 1: cases in the past, um for more like cocktail waitress 621 00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:07,520 Speaker 1: types of jobs where women were required to or or 622 00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:11,520 Speaker 1: were punished for not wearing their hair and makeup in 623 00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:14,719 Speaker 1: a certain way, and they brought a lawsuit. So restaurants 624 00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:19,359 Speaker 1: build that kind of legally ease into their business models 625 00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:22,920 Speaker 1: so that they can essentially higher models. Yeah, there was 626 00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:26,759 Speaker 1: a call for Twin Peaks auditions in Arizona and they write, 627 00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:29,360 Speaker 1: of course, our costume requires Twin Peaks girls to be 628 00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:32,920 Speaker 1: physically fit and well styled. And one waitress said, you know, 629 00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:34,840 Speaker 1: it's just like going to a job interview. It's work. 630 00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:37,239 Speaker 1: You know, you have to look a certain way for 631 00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:39,839 Speaker 1: a job interview or over a play. If we're still 632 00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:43,239 Speaker 1: speaking about costumes and performances and you just have to 633 00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:46,040 Speaker 1: look a certain way to be a Twin Peaks waitress. 634 00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:52,000 Speaker 1: And not surprisingly, there is not a version of Hooters 635 00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:56,360 Speaker 1: centered around female patrons. Although okay, the closest thing we 636 00:39:56,440 --> 00:40:00,440 Speaker 1: have is this place. Listeners, this is true. Is a 637 00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:04,919 Speaker 1: place that was recently opened called tally Whackers, and it's 638 00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:11,560 Speaker 1: like the Chippendales of the of the restaurant industry um, 639 00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:16,960 Speaker 1: and their signature dish, if you can call it a dish, 640 00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:22,800 Speaker 1: is an extra long hot talk with two pickle spears 641 00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:26,520 Speaker 1: on it. And it seems like the most uncomfortable place 642 00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:31,480 Speaker 1: to go because it's these like college guys in no 643 00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:36,799 Speaker 1: shirts and I think, like, um, boxer briefs serving you 644 00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:40,719 Speaker 1: your food, well, like boxer briefs if they were hot pants, 645 00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:44,280 Speaker 1: so just the hot pants. They're also wearing teeny tiny 646 00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:47,920 Speaker 1: little little shirts. And it does sound like it doesn't 647 00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:50,799 Speaker 1: really uncomfortable. There was an article, was it in Business, No, 648 00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:54,160 Speaker 1: it was in Women's Health, Yeah, where a woman went 649 00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:57,440 Speaker 1: to this restaurant to skip it out and she talked 650 00:40:57,440 --> 00:40:59,520 Speaker 1: to these two like giggly ladies at the bar and 651 00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:01,440 Speaker 1: she was like, oh, you know, you're gonna be regulars here, 652 00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:03,680 Speaker 1: You're gonna come back. And they were like, no, what Yeah, 653 00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:06,200 Speaker 1: that's part of like the Hooters or Twin Peaks model 654 00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:10,600 Speaker 1: that you have these regulars who develop relationships with these waitresses, 655 00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:14,799 Speaker 1: whereas the lady customers at Tally Whackers are like, no, 656 00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:16,719 Speaker 1: this is this is a thing that I do if 657 00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:18,920 Speaker 1: I want to have like two pricey of a cocktail 658 00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:21,319 Speaker 1: and ogles some college boys for a minute, but like, no, 659 00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:24,160 Speaker 1: I'm this is not this is not my lifestyle. It 660 00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:27,879 Speaker 1: was basically built for bachelorette parties. It sounds like and 661 00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:32,640 Speaker 1: and the unofficial, un scientific poll of of ladies that 662 00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:37,440 Speaker 1: I took regarding Tally Whackers was across the board. No, 663 00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:41,319 Speaker 1: not wouldn't probably wouldn't go to that. Also, I mean 664 00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:44,480 Speaker 1: just the photo of of that hot dog on the 665 00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:47,160 Speaker 1: Tally Whackers website, it looks worse than something you would 666 00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:50,839 Speaker 1: get at the baseball park. It's so unappetizing. Yeah. Yeah, 667 00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:52,759 Speaker 1: if I want an overpriced hot dog, I'll go to 668 00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:55,120 Speaker 1: the game. Yeah, because at least you can watch watch 669 00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:57,920 Speaker 1: a sport activity. I'll go to Twin Peaks so I 670 00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:02,000 Speaker 1: can watch the game on four teen hundred big screens. 671 00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:05,640 Speaker 1: And also quick shout out to Inside Amy Schumer who 672 00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:10,640 Speaker 1: did an entire sketch on their version of Tally Whackers, 673 00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:14,320 Speaker 1: which was oh Nutters, which is so gross sounding but 674 00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:18,000 Speaker 1: so perfect. I mean, it takes the entire dynamic of 675 00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:21,840 Speaker 1: a Hooters and just switches it around. And that's as 676 00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:24,400 Speaker 1: far as we really need to explain with it. But 677 00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:26,920 Speaker 1: it hits, it really hits the the old nail on 678 00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:30,640 Speaker 1: the head, the old chicken wing on the bone. Um. 679 00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:33,920 Speaker 1: But I am curious to know if there are restaurant 680 00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:39,200 Speaker 1: workers listening and what you have to deal with, both 681 00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:41,640 Speaker 1: in terms of on the job but even more so 682 00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:45,200 Speaker 1: off the job, because you like Hooters. Waitresses et cetera. 683 00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:50,880 Speaker 1: Are often maligned for this work. But there's that argument 684 00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:53,000 Speaker 1: of like, well, are they simply taking advantage of the 685 00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:59,280 Speaker 1: system and taking home handsome tips? Well, it's it's it's nothing. 686 00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:02,320 Speaker 1: It's changed. Nothing has changed since the early twentieth century 687 00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:08,759 Speaker 1: when people were linking waitresses of any kind with prostitution, 688 00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:13,839 Speaker 1: and within that, waitresses who worked at dry establishments were 689 00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:17,400 Speaker 1: looking down on the more highly tipped or well tipped 690 00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:20,360 Speaker 1: and well paid women who worked at bars or just 691 00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:23,240 Speaker 1: restaurants that also served alcohol. But I think the troubling 692 00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:28,120 Speaker 1: thing with this whole system to me is that ultimately, yeah, 693 00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:30,680 Speaker 1: you might be, some of these women might be paying 694 00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:35,480 Speaker 1: their way through college, but ultimately all of the people 695 00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:39,920 Speaker 1: interviewed in those industry stories or do I mean, these 696 00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:44,680 Speaker 1: are men making that that profits really off the bodies 697 00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:49,800 Speaker 1: of these young women. So that's where it becomes difficult 698 00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:53,680 Speaker 1: to stomach. Sure, it also boils masculinity down to just 699 00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:56,920 Speaker 1: beer and boobs. Oh yeah, it's completely insulting to men. 700 00:43:57,560 --> 00:43:59,040 Speaker 1: They don't want to be, They don't want to think. 701 00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:02,239 Speaker 1: They just want to watch a million television sitting a 702 00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:07,879 Speaker 1: recliner and drink beer. Okay, sometimes that's me too, So 703 00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:11,200 Speaker 1: I missed, dude, roommates recliner. I don't know you can 704 00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:13,640 Speaker 1: get one too. I wonder where I know. I'm just 705 00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:18,319 Speaker 1: not good too proud? I am too proud. I'm I'm 706 00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:22,880 Speaker 1: admitting it. Well, listeners, curious to hear your thoughts on 707 00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:25,120 Speaker 1: this one. Mom staff at house stuff works dot com 708 00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:26,920 Speaker 1: is where you can email us. You can also tweet 709 00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:29,640 Speaker 1: us at mom stuf podcast our messages on Facebook, and 710 00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:31,840 Speaker 1: we've got a couple of messages to share with you 711 00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:40,080 Speaker 1: right now. Well, I have a letter here from Dan 712 00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:45,040 Speaker 1: in response to our Feminist Transphobia episode. Uh Dan says, 713 00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:46,799 Speaker 1: I just want to thank you for all the good 714 00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:49,080 Speaker 1: work you do with regards to trans issues. You mentioned 715 00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:51,759 Speaker 1: how it's complicated trying to navigate the realms of not 716 00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:54,960 Speaker 1: being transphobic but also telling the story that is unique 717 00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:57,799 Speaker 1: to sist women's experience. I wanted to tell you that 718 00:44:57,840 --> 00:44:59,440 Speaker 1: I think you do a great job of it already. 719 00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:01,719 Speaker 1: All you need to do is be mindful in your 720 00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:05,120 Speaker 1: material that your biology does not necessarily correlate to your gender, 721 00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:08,680 Speaker 1: and then follow that philosophy through in your speech. For example, 722 00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:11,360 Speaker 1: when trying to discuss menstruation, you mentioned how it's important 723 00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:14,120 Speaker 1: to talk about it because women have historically been separated 724 00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:16,600 Speaker 1: from their own bodies and this kind of discussion is 725 00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:19,080 Speaker 1: important for women to have. This is, of course true, 726 00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:22,560 Speaker 1: but referring to the discussion as women's biology implies that 727 00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:25,600 Speaker 1: all women's biologies are the same, which is simply exclusive 728 00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:28,680 Speaker 1: of trans people and intersect people. You probably know this already. 729 00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:31,200 Speaker 1: All that needs to be done is discussed the biology 730 00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:34,279 Speaker 1: as it is, plainly with terminology that does not lend 731 00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:37,799 Speaker 1: itself to a gender unless absolutely necessary. There of course 732 00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:39,880 Speaker 1: instances when the discussion will need to focus on the 733 00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:42,520 Speaker 1: CIS gender experience, and that's fine. Periods are hard to 734 00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:45,760 Speaker 1: deal with, especially when you're dealing with stigma both internally 735 00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:49,040 Speaker 1: and externally. But imagine being a transman and having to 736 00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:52,000 Speaker 1: be reminded every month of your quote unquote woman's biology 737 00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:55,800 Speaker 1: in possibly the most unpleasant way possible. That's a legitimate 738 00:45:55,840 --> 00:45:58,200 Speaker 1: struggle that is unique to transmit, and it's worth being 739 00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:01,319 Speaker 1: inclusive of. In a discussion of menstruetion, you can stay 740 00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:03,560 Speaker 1: true to the mission of your podcast by informing women 741 00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:05,759 Speaker 1: of a topic that they've been misinformed about. But a 742 00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:08,120 Speaker 1: few adjustments in language, let's more people engage in the 743 00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:11,040 Speaker 1: topic and positive constructive ways, which is ultimately the goal, 744 00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:14,320 Speaker 1: isn't it. Also, on the topic of vagina monologues, I 745 00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:17,200 Speaker 1: go to Florida International University and last year we actually 746 00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:19,800 Speaker 1: had a performance of Vagina Monologues that went on without 747 00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:22,840 Speaker 1: having to be canceled. We also have active trans advocates 748 00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:25,560 Speaker 1: on campus. How is this possible, you might ask? The 749 00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:28,800 Speaker 1: Vagina Monologues actually included stories about trans people in it, 750 00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:31,040 Speaker 1: and the l g B t q A Association, which 751 00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:33,720 Speaker 1: I'm a part of, was invited to attend. The Vagina 752 00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:36,080 Speaker 1: Monologues is important for lots of people to be able 753 00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:37,920 Speaker 1: to learn from. I actually would kind of like a 754 00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:40,080 Speaker 1: podcast about it. But just be sure if you're going 755 00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:43,360 Speaker 1: to discuss women's biology, that you're including all women's biology, 756 00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:45,480 Speaker 1: and if you're going to discuss vaginas and be mindful 757 00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:48,560 Speaker 1: of the fact that people other than women have vaginas too. 758 00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:50,319 Speaker 1: I think you both do a fine job of this 759 00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:52,759 Speaker 1: already and are setting a shining example for others to 760 00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:55,200 Speaker 1: conduct themselves. I'm a long time listener and I've been 761 00:46:55,239 --> 00:46:57,680 Speaker 1: able to see well here you both grow with regards 762 00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:00,640 Speaker 1: to this topic, and it's really great to see here. 763 00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:03,920 Speaker 1: So thank you, Dan, and I've got a letter here 764 00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:08,040 Speaker 1: from Ash about our interview with Jessica Crispin, author of 765 00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:11,360 Speaker 1: The Dead Lady's Project. Ash writes, I just listened to 766 00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:14,040 Speaker 1: The Dead Ladies Project episode and I really identified with 767 00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:16,640 Speaker 1: the author's travel advice. I moved to Turkey with my 768 00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:19,200 Speaker 1: husband and kids two years ago, and let me tell you, 769 00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:22,680 Speaker 1: it's been an adventure. I'm originally from Dallas, so it 770 00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:25,239 Speaker 1: was quite a culture shock from day one. Before we 771 00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:27,520 Speaker 1: left the States, my family was essentially pleading with me 772 00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:29,880 Speaker 1: not to go, but being the bullheaded person I am, 773 00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:32,320 Speaker 1: that just made me more determined to make this work. 774 00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:34,560 Speaker 1: I quit my job, packed at my kids, and off 775 00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:37,440 Speaker 1: we went. When we first arrived, I was petrified. It 776 00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:40,320 Speaker 1: was such a sensory overload, all the smells in different sites, 777 00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:42,239 Speaker 1: not knowing what anyone was trying to say to me. 778 00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:45,120 Speaker 1: I got home, cried, took a nap, and vowed never 779 00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:47,640 Speaker 1: to leave the house again. It took me almost a 780 00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:49,840 Speaker 1: year to become comfortable enough to go to the market 781 00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:52,759 Speaker 1: by myself, but by the eighteen month mark, I found 782 00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:55,880 Speaker 1: myself completely in love with the culture and the people. 783 00:47:56,520 --> 00:47:59,799 Speaker 1: They're so welcoming and generally pretty willing to help out. 784 00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:03,759 Speaker 1: Turkish which is Turkish slash English, and the food is 785 00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:08,440 Speaker 1: just insane, honestly hot, cheesy hummus has changed my whole life. 786 00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:11,480 Speaker 1: Our time is almost over here and I find myself 787 00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:14,719 Speaker 1: sad to leave, which is just so incredibly bizarre. I've 788 00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:16,840 Speaker 1: learned so much about myself in this country that I 789 00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:19,000 Speaker 1: never knew I wanted to live in, and it will 790 00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:21,520 Speaker 1: always have a big chunk of my heart. It hasn't 791 00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:24,640 Speaker 1: always been fun. Sometimes it was scary, sad, fast and crazy, 792 00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:27,160 Speaker 1: but the good parts really make all the negative things 793 00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:29,839 Speaker 1: just melt away. So if you want to traveler, move, 794 00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:32,680 Speaker 1: do it, even if it sucks. It will be an 795 00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:36,759 Speaker 1: experience and that's what makes life worth it. And sometimes, 796 00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:39,320 Speaker 1: as I've learned, the experiences you never thought you wanted 797 00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:42,000 Speaker 1: sometimes turn out to be the best parts of your life. 798 00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:46,760 Speaker 1: So thanks so much, Ash and safe travels. Leaving Turkey 799 00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:49,879 Speaker 1: and coming I'm assuming back to the States, and thanks 800 00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:52,160 Speaker 1: to everybody who's written into us mom. Stuff at how 801 00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:54,880 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com is our mailing address and for 802 00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:56,640 Speaker 1: links to all of our social media as well as 803 00:48:56,680 --> 00:48:59,520 Speaker 1: all of our blogs, videos, and podcasts, including this one 804 00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:01,840 Speaker 1: with link so that you can learn more. If you 805 00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:05,280 Speaker 1: want about the restaurant industry, head on over to stuff 806 00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:12,160 Speaker 1: Mom Never Told You dot com for more on this 807 00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:15,040 Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics. Doesn't have stuff Worlds dot 808 00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:22,640 Speaker 1: com