Speaker 1: Pushkin. Camila Cabello is in the midst of a creative revival.
Speaker 1: Her brand new album, c Xoxo was recently dubbed hyper
Speaker 1: pop by Rolling Stone in the wake of the frenetic
Speaker 1: first single I Love It featuring Playboy Carti. The track
Speaker 1: is an entirely new direction for Camilla, who first rose
Speaker 1: to fame in twenty twelve as a member of the
Speaker 1: girl group Fifth Harmony. She's been a successful solo artist
Speaker 1: for nearly a decade now, scoring Billboard hits with Havana
Speaker 1: and Senorita, among others. On her new album, though, Camilla
Speaker 1: is racing into uncharted territory with her sound. She enlisted
Speaker 1: producers Jasper Harris and Alguinho, who's known for his work
Speaker 1: with Rosalia. Together they introduced a variety of new sounds
Speaker 1: into Camila's orbit, including all the latest sounds in hip hop,
Speaker 1: and the result is Camilla's edgiest album yet. On today's episode,
Speaker 1: I talked to Kamila about the every particular set of
Speaker 1: creative influences that inspired her new album, including a book
Speaker 1: by Joan Didion. She also talks about having features from
Speaker 1: Drake on a new album and why she wanted to
Speaker 1: make music for Miami spring Breakers. This is broken record
Speaker 1: liner notes for the Digital Age. I'm justin Mitchman. Here's
Speaker 1: my conversation with Camilla like Abeo, taped live at the
Speaker 1: Amazon Music Studios in Culver City. At what point during
Speaker 1: like a new album sort of cycle, as you're creating
Speaker 1: it and getting into going into market it, at what
Speaker 1: point do you stop and decide what like the tour
Speaker 1: is going to look like and set lists and visuals
Speaker 1: and stuff like, at what point in the creative process
Speaker 1: does that start to well?
Speaker 2: I think this was an album that was really like
Speaker 2: early on in tandem with writing it, I was kind
Speaker 2: of like drying up like pinterrest boards and stuff, and
Speaker 2: that kind of influenced the music. Like I remember, you know,
Speaker 2: kind of putting together this Pinterest board of kind of
Speaker 2: like what cx SO look like to me, And a
Speaker 2: lot of it was what you're kind of going to
Speaker 2: see on the festival stage, like you know, like the
Speaker 2: BMX culture in Miami and like the spring Breakers and
Speaker 2: the kind of girls with the sche mass and it
Speaker 2: being kind of like this kind of almost like girl
Speaker 2: gang vibe and like the XOXO girls. Like I kind
Speaker 2: of was thinking of that while we were in the studio,
Speaker 2: So it's been pretty easy in that sense. It hasn't
Speaker 2: been very like oh shit, what are we gonna do?
Speaker 2: Because I feel like this album kind of started as
Speaker 2: I was like, Okay, I feel like I've always been
Speaker 2: such a song driven artist, Like everything to me was
Speaker 2: always like how do I just make the best song,
Speaker 2: the best you know, like you know, the best chorus melody,
Speaker 2: and how do I make this lyric really good? I
Speaker 2: thought of things as very just kind of like self
Speaker 2: contained in the songs, and then I think, as I've
Speaker 2: gotten older, the next level is having this kind of
Speaker 2: world or aesthetic, which I feel like Lana does so
Speaker 2: well or you know, like I feel like that's like
Speaker 2: the next evolution for me is having like great songs
Speaker 2: obviously because that's so important to me, and and that's
Speaker 2: like obviously, like I feel like the like my starting
Speaker 2: point is.
Speaker 1: Just like if that's the bedrock for.
Speaker 3: D yeah, that's the bedrock for for everything.
Speaker 1: But like, yeah, the songs for you clearly seem like
Speaker 1: the bedrock. But this album good songs, but there's definitely.
Speaker 3: Have you heard it yet?
Speaker 1: I have? I have, I have.
Speaker 2: It's really good, really good and everything.
Speaker 1: Well it's I'll say the first time I heard it
Speaker 1: was with the new single or the first single, I
Speaker 1: love it. Yeah, and it shocked me, you know what,
Speaker 1: like that. It was funny, I think, and even going
Speaker 1: through I love looking at YouTube comments because they're both
Speaker 1: like the cesspool of society but also a bit of I.
Speaker 2: Love looking at other people's YouTube comments. Mine make me
Speaker 2: want to jump into this not even graphic just like a.
Speaker 3: Really fast card, but no, it is.
Speaker 2: It is such a good like just like human experiment project,
Speaker 2: like what do people But okay.
Speaker 1: It is mad. I mean it's mad, it's like a
Speaker 1: bunch of but but there's also it's also like interesting
Speaker 1: to sort of just see how people are processing certain things.
Speaker 1: And it was funny over time when that album first
Speaker 1: or when the song first came out and the video
Speaker 1: first came out to see the shock that people had.
Speaker 1: I think, even just like you going blonde like shocked people.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, totally, but.
Speaker 1: It's funny like returning to it, like over the last
Speaker 1: week or so, you started to see people are kind
Speaker 1: of catching up with what you're doing. Yeah, And so
Speaker 1: I had a similar experience with the entire album, which
Speaker 1: was the first time listening, it's what it's been like, Wow,
Speaker 1: it was really I love hearing that expecting it. But
Speaker 1: then by the third, fourth, fifth listening, I.
Speaker 2: Love hearing that because I feel like that's a really
Speaker 2: honest take, because I feel like, for me, it's like
Speaker 2: I've been living with these songs for a year now,
Speaker 2: and I've been living with.
Speaker 3: The world and the kind of like.
Speaker 2: Aesthetic evolution for a while now, and so I've obviously
Speaker 2: for me, I'm like I kind of my brain was
Speaker 2: probably like just expects people to just be as excited
Speaker 2: and and and lean into it as much as I
Speaker 2: am in the moment, But it.
Speaker 3: Really is important for me to hear you say that that.
Speaker 2: It's so true like with my favorite artists too, like
Speaker 2: when it's something that you know you haven't heard from
Speaker 2: them before, it takes you a second to warm up
Speaker 2: to understand, to recontextualize them. And I remember even like, for example,
Speaker 2: Anti like work by Rihanna.
Speaker 3: At first, I was like.
Speaker 2: What, like, I'm so confused, Like I don't know if
Speaker 2: I like this, And then I think it was like
Speaker 2: a couple months later, I was like, this is the
Speaker 2: best song of all time, but it.
Speaker 1: And the one of the best albums and one of
Speaker 1: them that whole decade of her career of R and
Speaker 1: B period, And I.
Speaker 2: Think it also I'm not by any means like because
Speaker 2: I don't think comparisons like.
Speaker 3: That exist, but I think it.
Speaker 2: I always like, I'm thinking about that now and I'm like,
Speaker 2: oh yeah, that also took us, like took a second.
Speaker 2: And I think it's so true when you, like, when
Speaker 2: you pivot and you're trying to do like something new,
Speaker 2: it just like takes people a second and you shouldn't
Speaker 2: take it personally.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, But also even before hearing the album or the singles,
Speaker 1: I was super shocked and excited that you were working
Speaker 1: with Elgwen Show. Yeah, because I mean I've been listening
Speaker 1: to Elgwen Show for like a decade now. Really incredible
Speaker 1: artist like his like his artists, Yeah, yeah, yeah, his
Speaker 1: head that he's he's phenomenally phenomenal. And it was like shot.
Speaker 1: I was like wait a second, like she's like because
Speaker 1: she's got interesting tastes, like how did how did it happen?
Speaker 1: Because he's not the obvious.
Speaker 3: Choice as as like somebody in the pops.
Speaker 1: Yeah you're a pops. I mean you're an artist, but
Speaker 1: you're also your pop star, which I feel like, do
Speaker 1: you kind of probably have to work to appease both,
Speaker 1: but I don't.
Speaker 3: I don't really work to like appease both.
Speaker 2: And I've never really been somebody who, like, I don't
Speaker 2: really try to cater to what I think people want
Speaker 2: from me or expect from me. I really just like
Speaker 2: every time, I just kind of follow my instincts. And
Speaker 2: you know, I remember my first album, like I worked
Speaker 2: with like Frank Duke's and you know, he had never
Speaker 2: worked with like a pop artist before, somebody coming from
Speaker 2: like a girl group who was like a pop girl group,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And I think with Green Show, I think I gravitate
Speaker 2: to people that take risks and you know, make kind
Speaker 2: of like fresh choices, and I feel like he's somebody
Speaker 2: that has such a like consistent fresh perspective, especially on
Speaker 2: like because I don't even know, I wouldn't even say, like,
Speaker 2: I wouldn't say Rose is like a pop stars, do
Speaker 2: you know what I mean? Like she kind of exists
Speaker 2: in her on lane, and I really that's kind of
Speaker 2: what I'm working towards, is like I don't want to
Speaker 2: be perceived as like a pop girl. I just kind
Speaker 2: of want to be me like outside of that. But anyway,
Speaker 2: but back to gen show, Yeah, I mean, I just
Speaker 2: I love like weirdos in the music space, and I
Speaker 2: love like weirdo producers.
Speaker 3: I love weirdo.
Speaker 2: Artists, and I really try to like always like align
Speaker 2: myself with the weirdos because I think they pull. Because
Speaker 2: I feel like the weirdos are are the ones that
Speaker 2: are not afraid to take risks.
Speaker 3: They're not trying to like.
Speaker 2: Have you know, oh, what's been the thing that's working,
Speaker 2: and how can we make something that works like the
Speaker 2: thing that we know that's gonna work? Like they I
Speaker 2: feel like they're the people that are gonna make unpredictable choices.
Speaker 2: They're the people that are gonna, you know, drive the
Speaker 2: label people crazy because they're like, we know that this
Speaker 2: is weird. We know that this, you know, is like
Speaker 2: a leap from the stuff she's done before. And I
Speaker 2: like those people because they make me also bold enough
Speaker 2: to follow those instincts in myself.
Speaker 3: And that's when I feel happiest. I feel happiest.
Speaker 2: When like I make a song like you know, I
Speaker 2: love it or he knows where I feel like I've
Speaker 2: done something different and something that feels like I followed
Speaker 2: my curiosity than just like having a big song that
Speaker 2: doesn't like excite me.
Speaker 3: Does that make sense?
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like when when it's something that feels creatively fulfilling
Speaker 1: and it hits commercially totally.
Speaker 3: I mean, if it hits commercial, no complaints here.
Speaker 2: But I think if I had to pick one, I
Speaker 2: feel like I always feel better when it's when it
Speaker 2: feels like when I just feel proud of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so yeah, But I mean it felt in
Speaker 1: so many ways like the pop world was kind of
Speaker 1: just catching up to you anyways. You grew up your Cuban,
Speaker 1: your Mexican, you grew up in Miami, And it's been
Speaker 1: incredible to see over the last handful of years the
Speaker 1: way that like popular culture and pop music has has
Speaker 1: sort of enmeshed with like Latin culture and Latin music,
Speaker 1: particularly from the Caribbean. You know, es is so much
Speaker 1: of the sound of your early records, your earlier records,
Speaker 1: So it's like not only is it like a detour
Speaker 1: from what you've been doing, but it's like kind of
Speaker 1: like you're deviating also from where popular music is going,
Speaker 1: and popul music was like turning towards you. So it's
Speaker 1: like it's a really bold moves. It's it's really I
Speaker 1: don't know. It was really impressive to me listening to
Speaker 1: it that that's, yeah, where you're deciding to go. Now,
Speaker 1: this is where you're deciding to go.
Speaker 2: Well, I think I when I'm in the studio, I
Speaker 2: really am just like I'm writing for myself and I'm
Speaker 2: making music for myself. And if I'm just like, oh,
Speaker 2: this feels like you know, Havana Part three, then I
Speaker 2: feel like I get kind of bored, you know. And
Speaker 2: I also think like I feel like this was almost
Speaker 2: a new take on you know for me, like Havannah
Speaker 2: and drawing on those sounds from my culture was like
Speaker 2: me exploring those parts of myself at that time. And
Speaker 2: I also was like, Okay, what perspective do I have
Speaker 2: that nobody or other people don't, you know, And that
Speaker 2: felt fresh at the time, Like at that time, Havana
Speaker 2: was like whoa, Like this is like super weird because
Speaker 2: it has this kind of like Cuban you know, like
Speaker 2: done son piano, but it has like these eight O
Speaker 2: waights Like that was like fresh at that time. Now
Speaker 2: it's like like you said like it.
Speaker 3: We hear that.
Speaker 2: A lot, so it's kind of like, okay, like what's
Speaker 2: I'm just always like, okay, what haven't I heard that
Speaker 2: I would want to here? And I almost feel like
Speaker 2: this album feels like the other stuff was exploring kind
Speaker 2: of Latin culture, Cuban culture, you know, sometimes like the
Speaker 2: Mexican like Madiachi music on my last album, Familia, and
Speaker 2: this one is like more Miami, which I feel like
Speaker 2: is like, you know, it's like this melting pot of
Speaker 2: like you're driving around in Miami and you hear like afrobeat,
Speaker 2: you hear rigaton, you hear hip hop.
Speaker 3: You hear like a lot of these different things.
Speaker 1: You still live in Miami, right, Yeah, how do you
Speaker 1: experience Miami differently now from when you were a kid?
Speaker 2: I think I like it more now because I think
Speaker 2: when you grow up in a place, you always I
Speaker 2: feel like, just don't appreciate it. Yeah, right, just like
Speaker 2: this is boring, and I think living in other places
Speaker 2: and spending a lot of time in LA and spending
Speaker 2: not to hate on LA, but you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: like but a little bit, but that's up. You know what, though,
Speaker 2: it's different when it's your hometown because I get it
Speaker 2: very totally different experience when I'm.
Speaker 1: Here in Miami. In LA are very similar in the
Speaker 1: sense of like, people come to LA and I was like,
Speaker 1: that's wow, it's so flashy, it's so and then I
Speaker 1: go to i.
Speaker 3: Fla to Miami and I'm guilty, guilty, this is how
Speaker 3: people feel.
Speaker 1: Come to LA because all of a sudden, I'm like, what,
Speaker 1: like me too, I mean I came everywhere, come.
Speaker 2: To LA and I'm like, what, like, I don't feel
Speaker 2: like the real people like I don't feel.
Speaker 3: And and you probably the same one. People come to Miami.
Speaker 2: They're like, oh, you're at like Nikki Beach and I'm like, no,
Speaker 2: I've been there one time.
Speaker 3: That's not the experience I get in Miami. I think.
Speaker 2: I think, like, for example, like making this album in Miami,
Speaker 2: like when I'm in writing mode, I'm like, I was
Speaker 2: talking about this the other day. It's almost like you're
Speaker 2: just like looking at everything with like just extra attention,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, and it makes you There's
Speaker 2: this quote that says something like, look at your city
Speaker 2: with the eyes of a tourist, like with the eyes
Speaker 2: of somebody that's like never there before. And I remember
Speaker 2: just I'm trying to say like more and like less
Speaker 2: in general and interviews because I feel like I say
Speaker 2: like a lot.
Speaker 1: Good luck.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, I say it's so much.
Speaker 1: I'm trying interview, so I'm happy you're doing.
Speaker 3: Oh no cursing is that's that'll be the last thing
Speaker 3: to go.
Speaker 2: But the likes, Damn, it's just like I just insert
Speaker 2: it instead of a pause, but I'll just pause.
Speaker 3: But anyway, Yeah, I feel like, fuck it whatever.
Speaker 2: I feel like I would just go into the studio
Speaker 2: and just kind of just and even be driving back
Speaker 2: at night and be like, Wow, these lights. You don't
Speaker 2: get this like specific shade of yellow and orange anywhere else.
Speaker 2: Or you don't get this kind of music. You don't get,
Speaker 2: you know, this kind of what they call Miami English.
Speaker 3: You know, the.
Speaker 2: Slang and the whatever anywhere else you don't get the
Speaker 2: you know, the the this look of the skyline you
Speaker 2: don't get you know. I was just really looking at
Speaker 2: it with extra attention, and I think looking at anything
Speaker 2: with extra attention, everything becomes more beautiful. Yeah, And I
Speaker 2: think that's kind of how I feel about Miami. I
Speaker 2: suddenly was looking at it for writing purposes, for research purposes,
Speaker 2: and you know, writing down everything that felt to me
Speaker 2: like you know, like representative of her.
Speaker 1: And is that part of your writing process as you're
Speaker 1: living your life and going around doing things, something strikes
Speaker 1: you in the moment. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, But I notice, for example, like right now, I'm
Speaker 2: in rehearsal mode, and so when I'm not in rehearsal,
Speaker 2: like I'll be like looking at the videos, or I'll
Speaker 2: be practicing, or I'll be whatever. And then writing time,
Speaker 2: when I'm like making an album is the time where
Speaker 2: I have the luxury of just being like I wake
Speaker 2: up in the morning and I you know, bring my
Speaker 2: iPad to like a coffee shop and I'll just like
Speaker 2: write down anything. If I had any kind of adventures
Speaker 2: that week or whatever, I'll just kind of write it
Speaker 2: down like a diary entry, or I'll just kind of
Speaker 2: be able to have the time to really take stock
Speaker 2: of everything.
Speaker 3: And write it down.
Speaker 2: But for example, like right now, it's like this whole
Speaker 2: phase of my life where I'm rehearsing, there could be
Speaker 2: tons of things I could be writing about if I
Speaker 2: was making an album.
Speaker 3: Does that make sense?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm going to ask a lot of just like
Speaker 1: weird because I'm obsessed with like the demands of being
Speaker 1: like a pop star, you know, and and I know
Speaker 1: you're feeling like and that's why. But it's like, because
Speaker 1: it's like it is a very unique lifestyle and unique
Speaker 1: from me. Even there's only a certain percentage of people
Speaker 1: in the world who are in the arts, and even
Speaker 1: smaller percentage of people who are in the arts and
Speaker 1: could be considered pop stars. So it's like, is there
Speaker 1: there Your life sort of is lived in phases necessarily,
Speaker 1: is there a phase of life that you yes, like
Speaker 1: more dislike the most? Like what were my writing phase?
Speaker 2: The writing phase is my favorite for me. But when I,
Speaker 2: for example, if we were in the studio for more
Speaker 2: than two weeks, I would need to take a break
Speaker 2: and then just live some life because I run out
Speaker 2: of things to say, you know, because I usually just
Speaker 2: have thoughts and ideas, and then I'm like, well, I
Speaker 2: don't have anything else to say because I've been in
Speaker 2: the studio with you motherfuckers for the last two weeks.
Speaker 2: So there's you know, I got to go and go
Speaker 2: on a date. I gotta go get on a fight
Speaker 2: with someone, and I get something because otherwise, you know,
Speaker 2: I think the buck stops here, So it usually is
Speaker 2: like for me, that's usually my favorite phase is like
Speaker 2: the year of like writing, and then you.
Speaker 3: Go take a few days off writing, take a few
Speaker 3: days off, come back writing.
Speaker 1: I'm back. Like.
Speaker 2: I love that because I also that's a time where
Speaker 2: I feel like I'm also when I'm writing, I'm devouring
Speaker 2: other forms of art as input. So I'm like reading
Speaker 2: a lot, listening to a lot of music, watching a
Speaker 2: lot of movies, even like going to see like physical
Speaker 2: art in museums because I feel like I benefit from
Speaker 2: a lot of input and then I get like newer
Speaker 2: and newer forms of output.
Speaker 1: After a quick break, we'll be back with more from
Speaker 1: Kamila Cabello. We're back with Kamila Cabello. What were you
Speaker 1: taking in like in the beginning stages of this album
Speaker 1: or throughout?
Speaker 3: Oh, I wrote it down on my iPad? Can I
Speaker 3: pull it out?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Incredible.
Speaker 2: Brought my iPad because I had it felt like, you know,
Speaker 2: if there's any podcasts that I can nerd out and
Speaker 2: bring my my trustee Patty, please, this is the iPad
Speaker 2: I wrote down like some of the books and like
Speaker 2: some of the references and stuff so these are the
Speaker 2: books that I read. Okay, so Joan Diddy and the
Speaker 2: White Album.
Speaker 1: Oh that's a great book.
Speaker 2: Great, great book, right, Candy House, Jennifer Egan, Bird by
Speaker 2: Bird by m LaMotte.
Speaker 3: Did you ever read that? It's about writing?
Speaker 1: Really? Yeah, I'm gonna have to check that out. I
Speaker 1: don't know it.
Speaker 2: Bird by Bird, My Year of Rest and Relaxation. Uh,
Speaker 2: Metamorphosis by Friends Friends.
Speaker 1: Kafka, Wow, you're reading some co I was.
Speaker 2: Reading some classics, but I was mostly reading. I was
Speaker 2: reading a lot of Sally Rooney. I was reading a
Speaker 2: lot of books by girls going through things in their
Speaker 2: twenties because I was like, I just love the like
Speaker 2: inner dialogue, and I wanted to have exactly exactly what
Speaker 2: else did I write down here? This poetry podcast poetryon Bound.
Speaker 3: But I love that podcast. It really has taught me
Speaker 3: so much.
Speaker 2: Oh, these are just like things like kind of guidelines
Speaker 2: of c xoxo.
Speaker 1: But what I don't know I want to hear that's.
Speaker 3: Well, this is just yeah, like this is just some stuff.
Speaker 2: Like I remember talking to my therapist a lot about this.
Speaker 2: This album kind of being about questions without answers, and
Speaker 2: you know that quote that's like uh Rainer Maria Rilka,
Speaker 2: that's like Livia Questions, where it's like letters to a
Speaker 2: young poet where he's like, but I don't.
Speaker 3: Know what to do, like do I do this with
Speaker 3: my life? Do I do this with my life?
Speaker 2: And he's like, don't wait until you know the answer,
Speaker 2: live your questions. And I feel like a lot of
Speaker 2: my songs before were very like bam bam, it's like
Speaker 2: we broke up and yay, and you know, my own
Speaker 2: lind it's like he's a bad boy and ooh and
Speaker 2: you know, it's very kind of these neat neat lines. Yeah, totally,
Speaker 2: Whereas I feel like a lot of these songs are
Speaker 2: almost like zooming in on one moment, which is my
Speaker 2: favorite thing about poetry. For example, where it's like I
Speaker 2: don't know, like twenty some things is like.
Speaker 3: It's like you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a lot of ankst. It's a lot of
Speaker 1: not knowing.
Speaker 3: A lot of not knowing totally not being sure of
Speaker 3: yourself even I love It. It is just like a zoom
Speaker 3: in on just a very tiny feeling.
Speaker 1: Do you remember the genesis of I Love It?
Speaker 3: Yeah? I do.
Speaker 2: We were thinking about so we had maybe like fifty
Speaker 2: percent of the album kind of done, and then one
Speaker 2: day I was like, okay, well what would be our
Speaker 2: first or track one because we were kind of starting
Speaker 2: to mock up a track list and I was listening
Speaker 2: to a lot of Cardi and I played this one
Speaker 2: song by Cardi called mister Rage.
Speaker 3: You know that song.
Speaker 2: I don't know that one so good, but I was
Speaker 2: just like, whoa, the energy of that I was so
Speaker 2: obsessed with. I think I've always gravitated towards since and
Speaker 2: this album.
Speaker 3: I was like, let's just let's just go there.
Speaker 2: Leaned, I leaned in ye and so yeah, so Jasper
Speaker 2: started playing those chords and then I went in the
Speaker 2: booth and I started singing the verse, the.
Speaker 3: Supersonic you of Ita Nana. It probably was.
Speaker 2: It probably wasn't all the words, but I do think
Speaker 2: supersonic was the was a word that was in the
Speaker 2: because I usually that's how I write. It's like kind
Speaker 2: of like freestyle mumble and then kind of fill in
Speaker 2: the words after cool. Yeah. And so then I saw
Speaker 2: the guys and they were like, oh my god, and
Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, I love it. And the auto
Speaker 2: tune kind of did something and then I like kind
Speaker 2: of kept singing it and they were like yeah, like
Speaker 2: keep saying it whatever, and then that's how the chorus happened.
Speaker 2: And then gin Cho put in that Lemonade sample right
Speaker 2: because I think and I think he'll probably explain to
Speaker 2: like where he was thinking about it, But we were
Speaker 2: at that time, we were already like, this is a
Speaker 2: Miami album, and we were thinking of like people from
Speaker 2: Miami or Miami Transplants or spring Breakers and Gucci Mane
Speaker 2: kind of yeah, like straddles both of those things, spring
Speaker 2: Breakers and Miami Transplant and yep, yeah.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's so literally the I was an aspect.
Speaker 1: I love it, I love it, I love it. It was
Speaker 1: just because they were kept telling you keep going on.
Speaker 2: Yeah, But I think but I think before I probably
Speaker 2: before this album, I wouldn't have kept going with a
Speaker 2: choice like that. I would have been like, no, you know,
Speaker 2: this needs more words, right, And I think that you know,
Speaker 2: in this album, one like listening to people like Cardi
Speaker 2: where it is you know, it feels instinctive and visceral,
Speaker 2: and then also learning that you know, repetition is also intentional.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know it sounds like the feeling.
Speaker 1: There's a power in a print, you know. It's that
Speaker 1: Prince on Joy and repetition. There's like a joy or
Speaker 1: power and and sometimes there's like a like all right,
Speaker 1: you know, because that's the thing with repetition. I love it.
Speaker 1: I love it. It's like cool. And then it's like
Speaker 1: halfway through it's like kind of I'm kind of done
Speaker 1: with this.
Speaker 3: But then you change the note or something.
Speaker 1: Something, or you just keep going and by the end
Speaker 1: of you like, wait, I'm in Like.
Speaker 3: This is incredibly Yes, it's so true.
Speaker 1: There's a power, there's a there's a there's a there
Speaker 1: really is a power in.
Speaker 2: It because it hits your body differently. Yeah, every time you.
Speaker 1: Say it, every time, every single time.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: What are the ways in which because you worked with
Speaker 1: Jasper Harris as well, Yes and el Gwen show, Yes,
Speaker 1: what are the ways in which they kind of pushed
Speaker 1: you or took you out of your comfort zone? Oh?
Speaker 3: So much? That was they took me on my comfort zone.
Speaker 3: The whole time. I was like, can y'all just leave
Speaker 3: me in here for a second?
Speaker 2: But no, I love that about them, And that's actually
Speaker 2: that's why I wanted to work with them. And I
Speaker 2: think That's why I probably really expanded my references. And
Speaker 2: if I would show up and be like, oh, like
Speaker 2: I love this song, then they would show me, you know,
Speaker 2: eight more kind of underground songs that I didn't know.
Speaker 3: And I feel like.
Speaker 2: That really yeah, just kind of like it expanded, you know,
Speaker 2: my kind of input folder.
Speaker 1: And are there any of the names that like they
Speaker 1: shared with you that are on there totally?
Speaker 2: I mean I don't think I've really listened to they
Speaker 2: are like, we're massive, massive Cardi fans, Like they talked
Speaker 2: about Cardi so so much, and I think that made me, like,
Speaker 2: then I started listening to him more. And like, you know,
Speaker 2: uh Im Triplin, Pabula showed me Im Triplin. I mean,
Speaker 2: so many people, even like ethel Kine Jasper showed me.
Speaker 2: They showed me a lot of, like I feel like,
Speaker 2: amazing artists and amazing songs. For example, I remember this
Speaker 2: one song Dreamgirls, like we were in the Bahamas.
Speaker 3: We went to Bahamas.
Speaker 1: And and jazz yes wow.
Speaker 2: And literally we were just we just barely saw the sunlight,
Speaker 2: like we were just in the studio the whole time.
Speaker 3: I was so tired by the time we left. It
Speaker 3: was so much but we got a.
Speaker 2: Lot of the album done there, but anyway that this
Speaker 2: was after like Chanel number five and a lot of
Speaker 2: the I feel like thesis, which Chanel number five I
Speaker 2: consider kind of like the thesis statement, like the centerpiece
Speaker 2: of the table that is cxoxo. And for example, like
Speaker 2: we were we were working on dream Girls in the Bahamas,
Speaker 2: and you know, I would do like I would write
Speaker 2: the verse or whatever, and they'd be like, yeah, like
Speaker 2: it's it's good, but I feel like it's like I
Speaker 2: don't know, it's like Chanelle number five, like you did that,
Speaker 2: you know, like I feel like there's like this bar now.
Speaker 3: And I did like maybe three more.
Speaker 2: Versions of verses, and I was like at some point
Speaker 2: I was like they were just hating, like what do
Speaker 2: they want from it? But they were right, they were right,
Speaker 2: and I you know, I I pushed myself and I
Speaker 2: got the verse that I got like out of dream
Speaker 2: Girls because I feel like they are consistently challenging me
Speaker 2: and pushing me to be like it's good, but it's
Speaker 2: not excellent. Right, Everybody needs people like that, you know,
Speaker 2: Like that's like that kind of we constantly had that
Speaker 2: creative tension where we were always you know, getting into
Speaker 2: little things, but in a good way because I think
Speaker 2: it really it constantly pushed me to be better. And
Speaker 2: I you know, I tell them this all the time,
Speaker 2: Like I was, like, you guys have made me a
Speaker 2: better writer and a better art artists and you know.
Speaker 1: Had a typical way of working in the studio free before.
Speaker 1: Like would you have those kinds of dust ups with
Speaker 1: with collaborators, producers, writers in the past.
Speaker 3: I did with like I did with Frank for sure.
Speaker 2: Like I think that that push and pull is it's
Speaker 2: important because it's so easy for things to just be Yeah,
Speaker 2: and it can happen even with yourself. I can it
Speaker 2: can happen with myself where I can be like I
Speaker 2: like that melody. That melody is cool, and this lyric
Speaker 2: is cool, and that's a cool and that's.
Speaker 3: A cool song. I like it.
Speaker 2: And it's easy to just put out things that are
Speaker 2: just cool. And I've done it, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: But it's not a business for them. There really are
Speaker 2: about craftsmanship and about respecting the craft and the integrity
Speaker 2: of a project and the integrity of things.
Speaker 3: And they're real artists, they really are, both of them.
Speaker 2: And yeah, they really I'm I think the thing that
Speaker 2: I'm the most thankful for for this project is how
Speaker 2: much I feel like it leveled. It made me step
Speaker 2: my game up as a writer.
Speaker 1: Confident.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, yes, yeah totally. I just feel like
Speaker 2: I learned so much. I feel like it was a
Speaker 2: boot camp for me. And I think, you know, when
Speaker 2: I listened to even now, because I'm in rehearsals and
Speaker 2: I'm listening to older songs and whatever, I'm like, I
Speaker 2: can see, for example, where oh this line could have
Speaker 2: been tweaked or this could could have been better on
Speaker 2: old songs based on what I know now, because I
Speaker 2: think before, I think I was just following instincts and
Speaker 2: doing the best with whatever instincts I had at that moment.
Speaker 2: But now I feel like I've have guide guidelines for
Speaker 2: what I think is cool.
Speaker 1: Can I tell you some of that please?
Speaker 3: And I was just thinking, I was just thinking out loud.
Speaker 2: I was like, I feel like I became a big
Speaker 2: fan of just like Show Don't Tell.
Speaker 1: Show Don't Tell. How do you think that comes up
Speaker 1: in the album.
Speaker 2: Like instead of being like, instead of being like he's
Speaker 2: so obsessed with me, it's like fold for me, Like
Speaker 2: Origami Oh does that make sense?
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a way better line.
Speaker 3: Is way better line.
Speaker 2: But I hope that didn't sound doesn't sound obnoxious because
Speaker 2: I have what I'm saying is I before I probably
Speaker 2: would have said things like something said and more tried
Speaker 2: to be like. I follow this Instagram account called the
Speaker 2: Paris Review, and I think Greta Gerwig said something like
Speaker 2: the only way to make something universal is like to
Speaker 2: make it as specific as possible.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, and it's right, yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2: And it's like Taylor has been saying that for such
Speaker 2: a long time and rappers have been doing that for
Speaker 2: such a long time, where it's like, you know, and
Speaker 2: ginshow is like a huge hip hop head, so he
Speaker 2: would always tell me, you know, I would come in
Speaker 2: with my perspective of like probably more pop songwriting, which
Speaker 2: is like the beginning of the story, middle of the story,
Speaker 2: end of the story, and he'd be like, you know,
Speaker 2: in rap songs, it's like you're in this scene and
Speaker 2: now you're in the car, and now you're in the bar,
Speaker 2: and now you're here and now you know, there's a
Speaker 2: glass and now there's shoes and the shoes are beige,
Speaker 2: and now there's like it's like all sensory and colors
Speaker 2: and painting all of these different pictures where it's like
Speaker 2: a movie that you can see in your head and
Speaker 2: like these flash cuts. And I learned so much from that,
Speaker 2: and I learned so much from rappers and.
Speaker 3: Hip hop and the way that I saw.
Speaker 2: Jay Z said something that Sizza reposted yesterday, which is like,
Speaker 2: you know when people are like, I don't know, like
Speaker 2: Paul McCartney is one of the greatest writers of all time.
Speaker 2: I think Biggie Smalls is too, you know where it's
Speaker 2: like the.
Speaker 1: I think Paul would probably agree with that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally, totally. I don't even think he said Paul mcartny.
Speaker 2: I think he said somebody else, but I can't remember.
Speaker 2: But it's like, yeah, just like the it's like it's
Speaker 2: like poetry, and because poetry is so sensory and visual.
Speaker 3: And I don't think I was conscious of that before.
Speaker 2: I think, like, coincidentally, my favorite songs that I've ever
Speaker 2: done before, like first Man from a from a writing perspective,
Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm so proud of that song thank You, or.
Speaker 3: Used to This that I did with Phineas.
Speaker 2: There's like they're very specific and like the callouses on
Speaker 2: your fingers. Like every time, I was like, this is
Speaker 2: one of my favorite songs.
Speaker 3: I did that.
Speaker 1: That's a good point. Yeah, that's a great line too.
Speaker 1: There's calases on your finger and I forget how long ago,
Speaker 1: and now I feel them on my face and yeah.
Speaker 2: And I admire them from a distance. Now they're on
Speaker 2: my cheeks. And I think Phineas and Billy do that
Speaker 2: a lot too. But I think this album, I was
Speaker 2: really like, this is what I like this, this is
Speaker 2: my ship.
Speaker 3: Sally Rooney does it, Joan Didion does it, and I
Speaker 3: and and and I.
Speaker 2: I just yeah, I was like, this is the show.
Speaker 2: Don't tell album. I don't want to do these universal statements.
Speaker 2: I wanted to be as sensory as possible, which is
Speaker 2: why I think Chanel number five is my favorite song
Speaker 2: that I've that I've written, because I feel like it
Speaker 2: is written from that kind of like rap perspective where
Speaker 2: it's just like, oh, Makassi shabari whoop.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, it's like all these different pictures.
Speaker 1: No. So that's so that's why that's like the mission
Speaker 1: statement of the album for you, Shanela.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I feel like it's like it has I
Speaker 2: feel like all of my tastes and all the things
Speaker 2: I like coming together, which is like this like kind
Speaker 2: of whimsical, alternative, weird thing and then like hip hop.
Speaker 3: Yeah, in one song.
Speaker 1: Are there were there other kind of guide guidelines you
Speaker 1: kind of wanted?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like show Don't Tell was one, right,
Speaker 2: I think the sensory thing was big.
Speaker 1: There really is a visceralness like to that to the album,
Speaker 1: and and it's you know what's funny has I hadn't
Speaker 1: really thought about it, but you know, we always talk
Speaker 1: about like the album and then the visuals, and then
Speaker 1: we think about them as these I think because there
Speaker 1: are visuals and going back to MTV or whatever, there's
Speaker 1: there's always visuals. You can rely on the video to
Speaker 1: provide the like this is what what this is, how
Speaker 1: I'm seeing. This is how you should see the song,
Speaker 1: you know. But what is cool about this album is
Speaker 1: like you're able to see the song before you see
Speaker 1: a visuals. You know.
Speaker 2: Honestly, I think that I was listening to so much rap,
Speaker 2: and I think that that probably influenced because I love
Speaker 2: melodies and I love like pop melodies, like I love
Speaker 2: like a I love a melody but I do feel
Speaker 2: like I love when a rap song comes out and
Speaker 2: I like go on genius and have to be like,
Speaker 2: what is this?
Speaker 3: What is this?
Speaker 2: They just there's like so many things, like tangible things.
Speaker 1: Were you were you like a big hip hop fan
Speaker 1: growing up or not as much I was.
Speaker 2: But I think I leaned into it more for this
Speaker 2: album because also gin Show and Jasper.
Speaker 3: Were showing me so many more things too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and.
Speaker 2: We I think when you're making an album with people,
Speaker 2: you kind of obviously it's like it's you, but you're
Speaker 2: also in the room with these people like ten hours
Speaker 2: a day, and you're gonna be talking about your favorite
Speaker 2: songs and wherever there's overlapt you know, Like I feel
Speaker 2: like they're such huge like hip hop and rap lovers.
Speaker 3: Like I think we kind of like that's what we.
Speaker 1: Your love, your love of melody, their sort of sense
Speaker 1: of like really like deep love of knowledge of hip hop,
Speaker 1: kind of blending those.
Speaker 3: Two exactly totally.
Speaker 1: It's amazing, totally talking about your love of hip hop
Speaker 1: going on genius. Drake is on two songs on the album. Yes,
Speaker 1: but how we feel about this Drake, what I mean
Speaker 1: Drake is kind of it's going through hard time right now.
Speaker 2: I'm you know, I obviously have huge respect for both
Speaker 2: of them, but I also something that's really important to
Speaker 2: me and my friendships and as a value is is
Speaker 2: loyalty and also and speaking the truth about people that
Speaker 2: you know. And I really will talk all day about
Speaker 2: how generous he was to work with, like throughout this
Speaker 2: whole process, how much he really is like a true
Speaker 2: music lover who was like, oh, like, you know, I
Speaker 2: want to like hear your album, and I want to
Speaker 2: see the video, and I want to contribute something and
Speaker 2: I'm so excited about what you're doing and I and
Speaker 2: genuinely like, you know, does not need anything from me,
Speaker 2: but was is I feel like always you know, puts
Speaker 2: other people on. So I DMed him. I was like, hey,
Speaker 2: I would love to play my album. He was like,
Speaker 2: I'd love to hear it, and.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So then we met up and I played in my
Speaker 2: album and it was kind of like a little bit
Speaker 2: more in the rough stages, but I played him number five,
Speaker 2: I played I Love It, I played him twenty somethings,
Speaker 2: and he played me some of for all the Dogs Wow,
Speaker 2: And I was like, I remember having this moment where
Speaker 2: I was like, Wow, this is crazy because I listened
Speaker 2: to Drake before I was even.
Speaker 3: Famous or whatever. Famous is a lame word, but you
Speaker 3: know what.
Speaker 1: I mean, Yeah, you got famous young. I mean yeah,
Speaker 1: before you were famous. Yeah that's that's your truth.
Speaker 2: So anyway, so yeah, then I think it was like
Speaker 2: a couple of weeks later he sent me this kind
Speaker 2: of demo, this hot up town, and he.
Speaker 3: Was like, what do you think about this? I like,
Speaker 3: I kind of think this could be sick. And I
Speaker 3: was like, oh my god, I love it.
Speaker 2: And I went into the studio with Pablo in Miami
Speaker 2: and I was like, I am not wasting any time.
Speaker 3: And I wrote my parts like whatever.
Speaker 2: And then we kind of cut back and forth to
Speaker 2: make it sound like a duet and sent it to
Speaker 2: him and he was like hard and all caps, and
Speaker 2: I was like.
Speaker 1: Did it? Did it? Had? That must have been kind
Speaker 1: of big for guin show too, like I'd imagine that's it.
Speaker 2: And and Jazpers like the biggest drap Like we're always like, well,
Speaker 2: he's the best.
Speaker 1: Like he's got did you can Jasper? Because I'm not
Speaker 1: super familiar with.
Speaker 3: Them, but I know Jasper is they're both fucking geniuses.
Speaker 2: Like they're just insane, and Jasper is it's really rare
Speaker 2: to find producers like both of them, and I'm lucky
Speaker 2: I got two where it's their taste. It's not even
Speaker 2: that they're just musically talented and that they you'll be
Speaker 2: talking about an idea and they will pick the right
Speaker 2: pick the best chords, which Jasper does. But it's also
Speaker 2: he sees like a larger vision and he sees, you know, oh,
Speaker 2: this flow would be so sick, and like this person
Speaker 2: would be so sick on that song and.
Speaker 3: This texture and whatever.
Speaker 2: Like his taste level is just amazing, and he's always
Speaker 2: putting me onto new music too. He's always talking about McGee.
Speaker 2: I don't know what McGhee, he's always that's that's his latest.
Speaker 1: So Gwen Show was first, and then Jasper.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Green Show was first, and yeah, he was act
Speaker 2: the first producer that I reached out to for this project.
Speaker 2: And yeah, and so we did like a few songs
Speaker 2: and then we I think I worked with maybe a
Speaker 2: couple more people, and then I was like, no, Green
Speaker 2: Show is it?
Speaker 3: Green Show?
Speaker 1: Is it? Well? It's interesting too because I feel like
Speaker 1: Familia was the first time, I mean, you worked with
Speaker 1: Frank Duke's a lot. But I feel like Ricky Reid
Speaker 1: on Familia was like the first time seemed like you
Speaker 1: like really bunkered down with someone and like was like,
Speaker 1: we're going to do this like one to one, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean there's more people involved in that record, yes, yeah.
Speaker 3: One hundred.
Speaker 2: I think with Frank it was like me and him.
Speaker 2: But I was so it was my first album, so
Speaker 2: I was like, oh my god, like I had, you know,
Speaker 2: the most imposter syndrome, and I was like, well, we
Speaker 2: must have the best people in town to help, you know.
Speaker 2: And I think the second album it was like that
Speaker 2: but a little bit less. And then I think the
Speaker 2: third album familiar. I was like, you know, I want
Speaker 2: to do this with a small group of people, like
Speaker 2: we can do it and it feels better. And and
Speaker 2: I think for me, like writing is so you know,
Speaker 2: I'm just like I'm sensitive and I just can't open
Speaker 2: up if it's like somebody I don't know, like I
Speaker 2: saw it.
Speaker 3: I had to kick someone out.
Speaker 1: You did you kicked something? We won't to say who.
Speaker 1: You kicked someone out.
Speaker 3: I don't know his name, but you know, like.
Speaker 2: And so even like if I can't be like vulnerable
Speaker 2: and intimate in my writing. If it's like my first
Speaker 2: day meeting you. That's why I think. I think that
Speaker 2: is also something I've learned, like from now on, it's
Speaker 2: always going to have to be.
Speaker 3: The same.
Speaker 2: Small, tiny family for an album, because otherwise I just
Speaker 2: can't open up. And there were even some songs here
Speaker 2: that I would kick, you know, I would kick Pablo
Speaker 2: and jazz Bro Yeah, you know, like I like twenty
Speaker 2: somethings in June Gloom. I was like, I can't write
Speaker 2: this chorus with you guys in here like that.
Speaker 3: Just get out.
Speaker 1: After one last break, we'll be back with more from
Speaker 1: Camilla Cabeo. We're back with the rest of my conversation
Speaker 1: with Camila Cabello. I was talking to him, boy, I
Speaker 1: was like, you know, because he did that run of
Speaker 1: like he did four or five NODS records, like where
Speaker 1: he was the sole producer, and it was interesting, like not
Speaker 1: in the documentary. Did you see that in Hip Hop Revolution? Yeah? Well,
Speaker 1: and then going back to like Ellmatic, that first NODS
Speaker 1: record is the first time that like someone was like,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna work with all these different producers and they
Speaker 1: were like.
Speaker 3: The top producers at the top, ye.
Speaker 1: Q Tip Premiere, who else is on that large professor whatever, whatever, whatever,
Speaker 1: But it's it's it's funny, and I feel like that
Speaker 1: opened up a thing where people work with a bunch
Speaker 1: of different producers, like these big camps, and that sort
Speaker 1: of become the thing.
Speaker 2: But it gives me anxiety to be honest with you,
Speaker 2: because I actually did that. I remember from my first album,
Speaker 2: I you know, it was Frank and then I went
Speaker 2: into like Max Martin's thing.
Speaker 1: And I read I was a Max Martin.
Speaker 3: I mean I was, to be honest, I was so young.
Speaker 2: I was like twenty, which I don't know, maybe that
Speaker 2: doesn't seem that young, but for my age at that time,
Speaker 2: I was like kind of seventeen inside yeah, you know,
Speaker 2: because I started at fifteen.
Speaker 3: So I was just like, my god, and it was
Speaker 3: Max Martin, Like I was like, what the fuck? What
Speaker 3: am I doing?
Speaker 2: This is so much and I at that time, Max Martin,
Speaker 2: I'm working with Pharrell. I was like, what is going on?
Speaker 2: And I just wanted to prove myself to these people.
Speaker 2: I literally wasn't even thinking to be honest with you,
Speaker 2: which is not the way to be. But I wasn't
Speaker 2: even thinking about what's gonna make the best song?
Speaker 3: Walking out of here? I was just trying to prove
Speaker 3: that I was good to Parrell.
Speaker 1: Well, how do you do that as you're twenty and
Speaker 1: you're in a studio with Pharrell?
Speaker 2: Literally wanted him to think I was good. I didn't
Speaker 2: even care like this song, I didn't care. I was
Speaker 2: just like, I just want Pharrell to walk out of
Speaker 2: here thinking I'm a good writer.
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Period?
Speaker 1: What can I bring to this? Really? As a toy
Speaker 1: like that? You know, it's like you kind of I
Speaker 1: could imagine that feeling.
Speaker 2: It's just I think when it's like too many superstar,
Speaker 2: so many superstar producers, it kind of just makes me anxious.
Speaker 2: Like even Ginsho in the beginning, I was so nervous.
Speaker 2: I felt like I needed needed to prove myself to him,
Speaker 2: and I would tell him is the tea?
Speaker 3: And Ricky too, and.
Speaker 2: Frank God, I'm so so vulnerable with all of them.
Speaker 2: But that's what you can do when you, you know,
Speaker 2: hunker down.
Speaker 3: With people, you can be like.
Speaker 2: I remember, like I would literally be like, are you
Speaker 2: comparing me to blink right now?
Speaker 3: Because I'm crazy and I have way I need more
Speaker 3: of a filter. And he would be like, what are
Speaker 3: you kidding?
Speaker 2: No, what, But then you see them as a human,
Speaker 2: which is where I need to be in order to write.
Speaker 3: I cannot see you as a superstar producer.
Speaker 1: Rachel too is just like a cool factor too that
Speaker 1: I could have met, Like, I mean I never I
Speaker 1: never met him, but just like listening to his music,
Speaker 1: You're like, that's a guy who knows a lot about
Speaker 1: a lot.
Speaker 2: Well he yeah, I mean he he schooled the fuck
Speaker 2: out of me, which is amazing. But that I want
Speaker 2: to be around people who school me constantly because that's
Speaker 2: the only way that I can get better. Yeah, And
Speaker 2: I feel like that's like what I feel like mad
Speaker 2: made this album so creatively fulfilling and rewarding is that
Speaker 2: I wasn't fucking school Like I was like, you know,
Speaker 2: I was listening to classic albums that I'd never heard
Speaker 2: before because.
Speaker 3: I grew up music. It was all Latin music.
Speaker 2: It was Latin music plus Michael Jackson, Universal period and
Speaker 2: that that was.
Speaker 3: Pretty much it.
Speaker 2: So I kind of went back and I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: what is this radiohead that people keep talking about?
Speaker 3: You know what it like?
Speaker 2: So I think, yeah, I just like did a lot
Speaker 2: of studying on this album.
Speaker 1: That's cool. So do you think all this is going
Speaker 1: to inform the next thing, the next thing moving forward
Speaker 1: your career your I.
Speaker 2: Think so, Yeah, for sure, I think I you know,
Speaker 2: I think like gin Cho and like I think that
Speaker 2: I always kind of need to work with people like
Speaker 2: gin Cho who really know their shit and.
Speaker 3: Just hold me to like a higher standard.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think that's like, Yeah, something I really
Speaker 2: learned is just really putting a lot of love and
Speaker 2: care into something, which I feel like I really did.
Speaker 2: I put a lot of love and care into it,
Speaker 2: and I just love it.
Speaker 1: It's a very cool. It's a great album. I'm still
Speaker 1: I still like I love it a lot of it
Speaker 1: because it is straight up and it's like the funny
Speaker 1: thing too, is you kicked it off with like the
Speaker 1: the strength, the weirdest song on the album, like you
Speaker 1: didn't hold it. You didn't hold you didn't hold back,
Speaker 1: like you were just like we're announced album, we're going
Speaker 1: and it is so it's like abrasive. It's abrasive copy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I actually hate when I Do you think
Speaker 2: I was right when I.
Speaker 3: Called it hyper pop?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I don't know, Okay, I don't know what that means.
Speaker 1: People say it.
Speaker 2: I don't because I like said it and then it
Speaker 2: was like this hyper pop song and I was like, guys,
Speaker 2: it's not though, like it's it's so many things at
Speaker 2: the same time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's a lot of things. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: a lot of it's a very it's a visceral record.
Speaker 1: I mean the stuff on me that sounds like like
Speaker 1: that no wave stuff like that, like that late seventies,
Speaker 1: early eighties New York like underground club stuff. It's just
Speaker 1: so it's such a I don't know, just ooze is
Speaker 1: like a cool I think that I love it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it is it.
Speaker 3: I also think like that's it.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: I was telling my choreographer, uh, my choreographers, Calvit and
Speaker 2: Sarah Yesterday, who I've worked with for a long time,
Speaker 2: because we have like I love it and we have
Speaker 2: like Dave County dreaming.
Speaker 3: Did you hear it?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's you the album enough because I
Speaker 1: got sent to stream and the link was but I
Speaker 1: can't wait to hear it.
Speaker 2: But like on both of those songs, I feel like
Speaker 2: I I yeah, I feel like mainly most of those
Speaker 2: songs man Hot of Town and I don't know me,
Speaker 2: but mostly.
Speaker 1: I not z x cut is really cool too. I
Speaker 1: mean he sounds like really he sounds amazing.
Speaker 3: Though, no, he went crazy on his verse.
Speaker 1: How did that happen?
Speaker 2: He's really close with Jasper, and so I think we
Speaker 2: were always just kind of like in the same family
Speaker 2: circles and uh he Jasper like played him my album
Speaker 2: and he loved it. And I think we've always been
Speaker 2: like kind of like loving and supportive of each other
Speaker 2: for the past, like since we've met, like six years ago,
Speaker 2: and I just always loved him. I just think he's
Speaker 2: like such an incredible artist. And we were thinking of
Speaker 2: like who to have on that song, and Jasper was like, oh,
Speaker 2: like what about nas And he had never done a
Speaker 2: feature before at that time, so I was like, I
Speaker 2: don't know if he's going to do it, but we asked,
Speaker 2: and we were so excited about the idea of like
Speaker 2: us both singing about the same guy or fighting over
Speaker 2: the same guy, because it's just like I just never
Speaker 2: seen that before.
Speaker 1: It's just such a such a funny concept and perfect
Speaker 1: challenges having just come out like the same person. It's
Speaker 1: like that kind of drama of that. And he's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I wasn't sure what to expect from it, you know,
Speaker 1: like what he would sound like on it, And it
Speaker 1: is really cool, like I don't know, it sounds like
Speaker 1: he's almost in character or something like he's.
Speaker 3: Playing with new stuff too, because he said the other.
Speaker 2: Day he was playing with the kind of like like
Speaker 2: kind of like Jamaican like New York, like the sounds
Speaker 2: like the.
Speaker 3: Whatever.
Speaker 2: Like yeah, he's kind of you know, exploring different things
Speaker 2: in his different pockets too.
Speaker 1: That's so cool.
Speaker 2: But I was gonna say about Dade County Dreaming and
Speaker 2: I love it. I feel like those were feelings that
Speaker 2: I always put on other people's music to tap into,
Speaker 2: like this feeling of like bravado or cockiness or like
Speaker 2: you know, like which I feel like rap gives you.
Speaker 3: Like this feeling of just like can't fuck with me?
Speaker 1: Yeah you know what I mean. Those songs have that.
Speaker 2: And yeah, I'm just like excited that I get to
Speaker 2: kind of I feel like I am able to embody
Speaker 2: that now in my own music.
Speaker 1: I love it. I love it. Have you had a
Speaker 1: chance to go to Cuba?
Speaker 3: I was born there, but like back when I was fourteen.
Speaker 1: When what was the how was how was that I
Speaker 1: haven't been.
Speaker 2: Able to go again just because like passport issues and
Speaker 2: stuff like that. But it was it was like right
Speaker 2: before I auditioned for X Factor and my grandparents.
Speaker 3: No, my grandma was still living there at the time.
Speaker 2: Now she lives in Miami and I had tons of
Speaker 2: family there. I still have family there, but a lot
Speaker 2: of people have come to Miami now, thank god. Honestly,
Speaker 2: what I mostly remember is like I was like obsessed
Speaker 2: with Justin Bieber.
Speaker 3: At the time. They had no Internet.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, and like they only had like the like
Speaker 2: an email app and like Solitaire, but they had no
Speaker 2: Internet at all.
Speaker 3: So when the whole.
Speaker 2: World was obsessed with like Justin Bieber, They're like, we
Speaker 2: don't know who that is. And I was like, no, guys,
Speaker 2: Justin Bieber, No for sure, No, I don't know. I
Speaker 2: haven't been back, but.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the situation is rough.
Speaker 1: It's yeah, it's bad. I was there a few years back.
Speaker 3: And what was your experience?
Speaker 1: Very very strange, strange, Like it was a weird experience
Speaker 1: because the people are so incredible.
Speaker 3: The people are.
Speaker 1: Just precious, some of the greatest people on the planet
Speaker 1: that I've come across.
Speaker 3: Warm, so warm, so generous, so loving. My mommy's Cuban.
Speaker 1: Yeah that's who is right, Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's a warmth, man,
Speaker 1: there's just a warmth. But you know, then obviously, but
Speaker 1: then you're like also balancing that with that and obviously
Speaker 1: the country itself is beautiful.
Speaker 3: The terrainanape, the landscapes insane.
Speaker 1: But then then you but then you're also a knowledge
Speaker 1: and you're like, you know, remember I met a guy there,
Speaker 1: amazing guy, so cool, and he was like showing us
Speaker 1: around and we're like, come, like, come have dinner, Like,
Speaker 1: let's just get your dinner. And he was like, this
Speaker 1: is the first time I've had like lobster in twenty years.
Speaker 1: Like how you live by the ocean, what do you
Speaker 1: mean my.
Speaker 2: Mom my mom never had lobster until I you know,
Speaker 2: yeah had money now, but she never had They barely
Speaker 2: had meat or chicken or eggs. They had like four
Speaker 2: eggs a month.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's it's so it's it's it's just it's
Speaker 1: a really I don't know. I always recommend it for
Speaker 1: people to go because you just can't. It's it's it's you.
Speaker 1: I don't know if that level of uh, you know,
Speaker 1: it's just so bifurcated. It's so weird my thinking on it.
Speaker 1: It's so strange where it's like people are beautiful, trains beautiful,
Speaker 1: it's lovely, and the music's incredible. I've never been to
Speaker 1: more musical place in my life. New Orleans would be second,
Speaker 1: which is saying something, yes, totally, but then you're like, man,
Speaker 1: these people have like like there's no help. You know,
Speaker 1: It's like it's kind of tragic. It's very tragic.
Speaker 2: I know, I wonder, like I feel like music and
Speaker 2: that warmth and that generosity is also like a has
Speaker 2: evolved out of that paint too, and that yeah, you
Speaker 2: know hardship.
Speaker 1: Right, which is another tough, tough thing to stomach. It's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: all that pain did bring a certain level of beauty.
Speaker 3: Out of totally.
Speaker 2: Have you ever seen this documentary, Cuba and the Cameraman. No,
Speaker 2: It's on Netflix. It's amazing. It was the first time
Speaker 2: that I understood because I had always heard my grandma
Speaker 2: and my mom talking about, you know, the different phases
Speaker 2: of the Cuban Revolution and then what the situation was
Speaker 2: looking like when my mom left to go to Mexico.
Speaker 2: But that documentary, it's basically it's the same guy a
Speaker 2: shot on one camera forty years of traveling to Cuba,
Speaker 2: I think every ten years. So you see in the
Speaker 2: beginning everything is amazing, and then maybe twenty years later
Speaker 2: you see him going to the supermarkets and there's nothing
Speaker 2: on the shelves. You see him, you know, going up
Speaker 2: to people and he's like, can I get a beer?
Speaker 2: Can I get some meat? They're like, we don't have anything.
Speaker 2: It was just the first time that I was like, oh, wow,
Speaker 2: I've seen I'm seeing now through visuals and images what
Speaker 2: my grandma and my mom lived.
Speaker 1: And we're talking because you didn't understand that by the
Speaker 1: time you left right.
Speaker 2: When you no, no, no, no, I mean I was seven,
Speaker 2: so I definitely I would. You know, as a kid,
Speaker 2: you have no stresses and you know your parents. My parents,
Speaker 2: I feel like always kind of carried the burdens for me,
Speaker 2: like they never you know what I mean. Yeah, So, yeah,
Speaker 2: I was having a I was having a great time.
Speaker 2: But now I have cousins that like in the past,
Speaker 2: every year, I feel like I have new family members
Speaker 2: that come because we're trying to get more and more
Speaker 2: people kind of out. Yeah and yeah. The things that
Speaker 2: they say is like it's so crazy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, why did your dad go to Cuba by
Speaker 1: the way, because he's from Mexico.
Speaker 3: My dad is from Mexico.
Speaker 2: He only went to Cuba after my mom was pregnant
Speaker 2: with me, and it was just like to kind of
Speaker 2: visit family, got it.
Speaker 1: Yeah all right. It's just such an interesting background that
Speaker 1: you have.
Speaker 4: Then I feel very lucky because I just love I
Speaker 4: just love having access to like my Cuban side and
Speaker 4: my Mexican side, like the people, like the food in Miami.
Speaker 2: Like I feel so happy that there's actually one song
Speaker 2: that didn't make the album because it's like not cxoxo,
Speaker 2: but it was called Broken English that.
Speaker 3: I wrote about my mom.
Speaker 2: Oh cool, And there was like this one line that
Speaker 2: was like empty chairs at like Christmas dinner table or whatever,
Speaker 2: because that's like how Cuban people always describe.
Speaker 3: Like just like immigrant families.
Speaker 2: And for so long, it was like my holidays were like,
Speaker 2: you know, just me and my mom and my dad,
Speaker 2: and then my sister was born and just the four
Speaker 2: of us, and now we're having more and more family
Speaker 2: come and it feels very healing for me because I
Speaker 2: get to have cousins around and I get to I
Speaker 2: don't know, just like have access to a lot of
Speaker 2: things about me that were probably just like in me,
Speaker 2: but I didn't know that, Oh my cousin has that
Speaker 2: same I don't know, like have it as me or yeah,
Speaker 2: or like she has the same tick as my mom
Speaker 2: or whatever.
Speaker 3: Like it like feels very healing for me.
Speaker 1: Oh, it's incredible, And I hope you get to go
Speaker 1: back one day.
Speaker 2: Me too, But even Miami in that way feels very
Speaker 2: healing for me because I get to spend time with
Speaker 2: them and yeah, it's just like it feels almost like
Speaker 2: it feels like the new home that we've all had
Speaker 2: to make because we can't ever like really go back
Speaker 2: to Cuba or you know, we wouldn't go back to
Speaker 2: Cuba or go to Mexico. So it feels like Miami
Speaker 2: is like, Okay, this is like where the new family
Speaker 2: line is being kind of created.
Speaker 1: It's amazing. Well, Camilla, thank you so much for making
Speaker 1: the album and for coming to LA and talking to
Speaker 1: us about I know you'd rather be in Miami, but
Speaker 1: you're here in mind.
Speaker 3: No, because then I wouldn't have gone to meet you.
Speaker 3: And you're so lovely.
Speaker 1: You're really good with people. Thank you.
Speaker 3: Stop it, no, I really mean it.
Speaker 2: You have you have really great energy, very you have
Speaker 2: very calming, kind energy.
Speaker 1: Oh, thank you. I appreciate that. Thanks to Camila Cabello
Speaker 1: for chatting about the making of her new album Sex.
Speaker 1: You can hear all of our favorite Camilokbeo tracks on
Speaker 1: a playlist at broken record podcast dot com. Subscribe to
Speaker 1: our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash broken Record Podcast,
Speaker 1: where you can find all of our new episodes. You
Speaker 1: can follow us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record
Speaker 1: is produced and edited by Leah Rose, with marketing help
Speaker 1: from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Tolliday.
Speaker 1: Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you
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Speaker 1: And if you like this show, please remember to share, rate,
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Speaker 1: Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond,