WEBVTT - KPOP’s Hit Factory Comes to Investing 0:00:05.480 --> 0:00:08.200 Welcome to Trilliance. I'm Joel Weber and I'm Eric bel Tunis. 0:00:11.920 --> 0:00:16.000 I'm really excited about today's episode. Eric, Uh, and you 0:00:16.040 --> 0:00:19.400 were the one that actually flagged it, and I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:00:19.440 --> 0:00:23.079 oh my god, this is gonna be amazing. So, uh, 0:00:23.120 --> 0:00:27.120 we're gonna talk about K pop today. Yeah. Um, I'm 0:00:27.160 --> 0:00:29.639 a sucker for themes. I find them interesting. Um. And 0:00:29.680 --> 0:00:31.560 we've done like three or four in a row that 0:00:31.600 --> 0:00:36.160 we're pretty pretty meaty. Um. You know, inflation, just really 0:00:36.520 --> 0:00:40.680 topical stuff that was very practical. And so I had 0:00:41.159 --> 0:00:43.200 I've been eyeing this e t F with the ticker 0:00:43.320 --> 0:00:45.919 k pop since it was filed, and then it launched. 0:00:46.440 --> 0:00:48.880 And when I read the article that Isabelle Lee wrote 0:00:48.920 --> 0:00:51.720 about it and found out that it was a twentysomething 0:00:52.040 --> 0:00:54.760 young man who had the idea launched the e t 0:00:54.920 --> 0:00:58.680 F and was like some K pop expert, Um, I like, 0:00:58.800 --> 0:01:00.560 I like these et F story is this is the 0:01:00.640 --> 0:01:03.800 sort of independent spirit of ETFs. You know, it's a 0:01:03.800 --> 0:01:06.720 tough market, but people, um, you know, keep trying with 0:01:06.800 --> 0:01:09.000 ideas and usually if you see a filing, a lot 0:01:09.000 --> 0:01:10.440 of times you pull the thread on it and there's 0:01:10.480 --> 0:01:13.480 like a somebody who can really make a strong fundamental case, 0:01:13.520 --> 0:01:16.840 even if the initial reaction is oh, really, is this 0:01:16.880 --> 0:01:19.600 really an investment a vehicle? Um? And I find that 0:01:19.720 --> 0:01:22.240 to be true over and over. So I really just 0:01:22.280 --> 0:01:24.480 wanted to dig into the story. I also wanted to 0:01:24.480 --> 0:01:27.360 find out the numbers behind K pop. I mean, I 0:01:27.360 --> 0:01:29.319 don't know what it is. I feel old when I 0:01:29.360 --> 0:01:31.759 went to one of the videos. It doesn't make sense 0:01:31.800 --> 0:01:34.360 to me. Um, you know, I'm driving around listening to 0:01:34.480 --> 0:01:37.200 r M and Nirvana is still like, UM, I want 0:01:37.200 --> 0:01:39.200 to get I don't want to be the old guy 0:01:39.200 --> 0:01:42.640 who doesn't know about this, you know, huge area apparently, 0:01:42.680 --> 0:01:45.759 and so I wanted to explore K pop secretly as well. 0:01:46.360 --> 0:01:49.480 We're gonna have Isabella Lee, who wrote that story for 0:01:49.480 --> 0:01:52.440 Bloomberg News. She's a cross Asset reporter, as well as 0:01:52.560 --> 0:01:55.160 Jean Wan Lee, who's the brain behind the GTM K 0:01:55.240 --> 0:02:03.200 Pop There's Time on Brilliants k Pop. Jean one is 0:02:03.200 --> 0:02:06.280 about welcome to trillions. Hi, thanks for having us, Thanks 0:02:06.320 --> 0:02:08.720 for having us. Okay, is well, I wanted to start 0:02:08.760 --> 0:02:12.600 with you. How did K pop come to your attention? Honestly? 0:02:12.680 --> 0:02:15.079 On Twitter, I was just grolling and I probably saw 0:02:15.120 --> 0:02:17.800 one of the Bloomberg guys. It could be Eric or Henry, 0:02:17.840 --> 0:02:20.480 I don't even remember anymore. And it was about a 0:02:20.560 --> 0:02:22.840 K pop e t F and it was fun, it 0:02:22.919 --> 0:02:25.560 was punchy, it was catchy. We you know, we write 0:02:25.600 --> 0:02:27.520 a lot of things in Bloomberg for many reasons, and 0:02:27.560 --> 0:02:31.160 we thought that regal traders and just twitter verse would 0:02:31.200 --> 0:02:34.120 like this because at that time, this was in April. 0:02:34.400 --> 0:02:36.840 If approved, this K pop e t F would be 0:02:36.919 --> 0:02:39.680 the first in Europe or US that would be investing 0:02:40.240 --> 0:02:43.000 in firms benefiting from K pop music. So we were like, 0:02:43.040 --> 0:02:47.079 this is exciting. And to Eric's point earlier, my generation 0:02:47.160 --> 0:02:49.800 my friends are crazy about K pop and I actually 0:02:49.880 --> 0:02:53.000 was personally a bit excited writing it because I thought 0:02:53.040 --> 0:02:55.200 my friends would be so jealous, they'd be so happy 0:02:55.240 --> 0:02:57.480 to hear about this K pop and my friends who 0:02:57.480 --> 0:02:59.880 aren't even investing, I was kind of sure they would 0:03:00.080 --> 0:03:02.880 best just because of this K pop ETF. So that 0:03:02.960 --> 0:03:05.079 was fun. And then I wrote a follow up story 0:03:05.200 --> 0:03:08.400 four months after um when the fund lodge and I 0:03:08.480 --> 0:03:10.960 got to speak with jan One also, so that was 0:03:11.000 --> 0:03:12.720 cool and I'm sure he can tell you more about 0:03:12.840 --> 0:03:14.880 the e t F. Okay, Janue, I want to hear 0:03:15.000 --> 0:03:19.119 where this idea came from, because you know Eric's Eric 0:03:19.200 --> 0:03:21.120 has never pitched an R E M E T F 0:03:21.280 --> 0:03:23.000 and I'm going to tell you that it probably would 0:03:23.000 --> 0:03:25.040 not go over well. But what did you see in 0:03:25.040 --> 0:03:27.360 in K pop that made you want to connect these dots? 0:03:28.360 --> 0:03:32.520 My premise um that K pop fans may also want 0:03:32.560 --> 0:03:35.240 to invest in KP pop. I don't think this is 0:03:35.280 --> 0:03:38.920 a new idea in the investment world, because, for example, 0:03:38.960 --> 0:03:43.040 many test Light owners are also investors in Tesla stock UM, 0:03:43.080 --> 0:03:45.280 and people tend to want to invest in what they 0:03:45.400 --> 0:03:48.320 consume and believe in. The same could be set for 0:03:48.440 --> 0:03:52.440 Warren Buffett, who enjoys McDonald's and Coke on a daily basis. 0:03:52.520 --> 0:03:57.040 To my knowledge, UM, SO Korean media entertainment industry has 0:03:57.040 --> 0:04:01.400 been growing very robustly, and we believe that this is 0:04:01.400 --> 0:04:05.720 still in its early innings, given that we're witnessing an 0:04:05.720 --> 0:04:09.120 inflection point in K pop, and we see squid Gain, 0:04:09.200 --> 0:04:12.720 we see Parasite, we see black Pink, we see bts. 0:04:13.040 --> 0:04:17.960 These K content K Entertainment UM Korean entertainment are gradually 0:04:17.960 --> 0:04:22.039 attaining mainstream game status UM globally from what was more 0:04:22.279 --> 0:04:27.320 a subculture in the past. So k pop BTFUM is 0:04:27.400 --> 0:04:30.239 the first of its kind, and it's it's the first 0:04:30.360 --> 0:04:36.280 vehicle that allows global investors to have exposure into K 0:04:36.480 --> 0:04:39.160 pop as an industry, as and as an investment theme. 0:04:39.640 --> 0:04:43.520 While in the past, since all the companies listed companies 0:04:43.800 --> 0:04:47.599 within the Korean entertainment and media sector are all listed 0:04:47.600 --> 0:04:52.200 in Korean Exchange and therefore global investors had no way 0:04:52.240 --> 0:04:56.200 to gain exposure into. Before we get into how the 0:04:56.240 --> 0:04:59.400 e t F tries to capture the K pop factor, 0:04:59.480 --> 0:05:02.599 if you will, UM, just let's go over the numbers. 0:05:02.760 --> 0:05:04.760 I remember reading an Isabelle's article I'll throw it to you, 0:05:04.839 --> 0:05:06.600 isabel because you wrote it. I'm not sure if you've 0:05:06.640 --> 0:05:11.080 got the numbers from Jangue, but the numbers were ridiculous, 0:05:11.960 --> 0:05:15.080 Like it was. Some of the comparisons blew me away. 0:05:15.080 --> 0:05:17.000 It reminded me of when I dug into the video 0:05:17.040 --> 0:05:20.120 game industry about seven eight years ago, and it's like 0:05:20.200 --> 0:05:23.000 bigger than movies and music combined or something, and I 0:05:23.080 --> 0:05:25.440 was like, Holy moly. And at the time people were 0:05:25.520 --> 0:05:27.960 kind of laughing off the video game et F. But 0:05:28.000 --> 0:05:30.320 I I wanted to do a taste test where I 0:05:30.360 --> 0:05:32.359 took the name out and just put the numbers of 0:05:32.360 --> 0:05:35.440 the industry of robotics, cannabis, and video games and asked 0:05:35.440 --> 0:05:37.560 someone to pick what was the best investment, and they're 0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:39.760 gonna pick video games, but then you show them the 0:05:39.839 --> 0:05:41.279 name and they're like, oh, I don't want to invest 0:05:41.279 --> 0:05:43.560 in that. I felt the similar vibe when I read 0:05:43.600 --> 0:05:45.799 the article what was give me some of the numbers 0:05:45.839 --> 0:05:49.320 that that talked about how big k pop is. I 0:05:49.320 --> 0:05:54.719 think South Korean music really game popularity in when this 0:05:54.960 --> 0:05:58.919 big YouTube hit called Gangam Style entered mainstream consciousness, and 0:05:58.920 --> 0:06:02.240 ever since then it just became even more popular. So 0:06:02.279 --> 0:06:05.880 for instance, in February, BTS was named I think the 0:06:05.880 --> 0:06:08.640 global Recording Artist of the Year and they even beat 0:06:08.720 --> 0:06:12.440 Taylor Swift in Adele and a girl group called Black 0:06:12.480 --> 0:06:15.920 Pink also became the first musical artist to hit a 0:06:16.000 --> 0:06:19.039 certain molestone in YouTube I think seventy five million subscriber 0:06:19.120 --> 0:06:22.320 mark and it they'd beat Justin Bieber. And on our 0:06:22.360 --> 0:06:25.600 side of the world, this sounds surprising because these are 0:06:25.720 --> 0:06:28.400 really big names. But then on the other side, you know, 0:06:28.480 --> 0:06:32.279 something bigger might even be happening. I will say this, 0:06:32.400 --> 0:06:34.840 I just the fact that Justin Bieber has something like 0:06:36.040 --> 0:06:39.480 million whatever is still surprising for a gen X or 0:06:39.560 --> 0:06:42.479 like me, But your point is well taken, Chenguan, do 0:06:42.480 --> 0:06:45.800 you have anything with dollars and cents for the industry? 0:06:46.320 --> 0:06:52.520 So on Spotify, the most streamed music group isn't Beatles, 0:06:52.680 --> 0:06:55.520 it is in Nirvana, it's not bon Jovi. It's actually 0:06:55.640 --> 0:07:00.680 BTS with over sixteen point three billion streams and they 0:07:00.720 --> 0:07:04.839 also hold who whoa whoa whoa hold on a second 0:07:05.279 --> 0:07:09.040 six team point three billion billion. It's not millionaire, that's like, 0:07:10.120 --> 0:07:13.120 holy mo, that's three that's three times more or at 0:07:13.200 --> 0:07:15.880 least double the amount of people on earth. Joel, Joel, 0:07:15.920 --> 0:07:19.880 have you have you ever streamed a BTS song? I have. Um. 0:07:19.920 --> 0:07:24.880 I'm blown away by how just viral the group is. 0:07:25.320 --> 0:07:27.360 Um And if you haven't never seen them, I mean 0:07:27.400 --> 0:07:30.040 it's basically a boy band, and they took boy bands 0:07:30.080 --> 0:07:32.240 to like a whole another level. Whatever you thought of 0:07:32.280 --> 0:07:35.240 the Beatles or back Street Boys at a certain era, 0:07:35.400 --> 0:07:39.960 Like it is insane how much more popular they are. 0:07:40.680 --> 0:07:43.040 But what's crazy to me, though, is you know what 0:07:43.120 --> 0:07:47.120 that BTS phenomenon. It's almost like it was the tip 0:07:47.160 --> 0:07:49.280 of the spear and you've seen so much more. I 0:07:49.520 --> 0:07:52.000 guess the gang style was the tip of the beer. 0:07:52.040 --> 0:07:55.480 But what we're seeing is this robust industry and Janue 0:07:55.560 --> 0:07:57.160 So I want to bring that back to you because 0:07:57.400 --> 0:08:00.480 when you when you put together UM the ET you 0:08:00.680 --> 0:08:02.640 there was an index that you also had to create. 0:08:02.840 --> 0:08:05.280 How did you go about figuring out what to include 0:08:05.320 --> 0:08:07.240 in that index and what to exclude so that you 0:08:07.240 --> 0:08:10.440 could actually like have an investment thesis that could work 0:08:10.480 --> 0:08:16.400 in practice. So how to define whether a company UM 0:08:16.440 --> 0:08:19.679 is a K pop or Create an enter entertainment company. 0:08:19.960 --> 0:08:27.120 Usually UM et s take UM a revenue based approach, 0:08:27.280 --> 0:08:32.200 where if if a certain theme generates or of that 0:08:32.280 --> 0:08:37.360 company's revenue, then UM that company is automamatically placed within 0:08:37.400 --> 0:08:40.760 the team UM. But but for K pop and Create Entertainment, 0:08:41.120 --> 0:08:46.520 these revenues are difficult to meet out from a lot 0:08:46.559 --> 0:08:50.840 of noisy data UM and and and for us, what 0:08:50.960 --> 0:08:56.599 we did was essentially pinpoint a company that's clearly a 0:08:56.720 --> 0:08:59.400 K pop company, and it's indubitably a K pop company. 0:08:59.600 --> 0:09:02.800 For in sense UM the management company, the record company 0:09:03.080 --> 0:09:07.720 behind BTS now that's indubitably a K pop company. And 0:09:07.800 --> 0:09:12.480 what we would do is we would essentially pull some 0:09:12.640 --> 0:09:18.319 of the major keywords of these undoubtedly K pop companies 0:09:18.720 --> 0:09:24.240 and we compared to other companies within the industry, and 0:09:24.720 --> 0:09:29.880 if we figure out a certain level of similarity and 0:09:29.960 --> 0:09:34.240 if if if the companies meet that standard, then we 0:09:34.240 --> 0:09:38.120 we we we call that company our target and our 0:09:38.240 --> 0:09:41.439 theme UM within the within the whole k pop UM 0:09:41.559 --> 0:09:51.000 or create entertainment definition. And so I'm looking at the 0:09:51.000 --> 0:09:54.720 holdings here, j YP Entertainment, h y b E cow 0:09:54.840 --> 0:09:57.520 I I. You know, I obviously these are all pretty 0:09:57.559 --> 0:10:00.600 foreign to me UM, but that's probably good it because 0:10:00.600 --> 0:10:03.439 there are companies that are involved in this niche space UM, 0:10:03.440 --> 0:10:06.280 and I wouldn't know it. Surprising to me is that 0:10:06.320 --> 0:10:10.480 they're even publicly traded. Yeah, I guess how much if 0:10:10.480 --> 0:10:12.720 you were to say, okay, you've got you know, thirty 0:10:12.720 --> 0:10:17.040 two holdings, he's a waiting, what percent of that weight 0:10:17.679 --> 0:10:19.840 is directly linked to like K pop sales? And how 0:10:19.840 --> 0:10:25.080 did you try to capture that? So s of our 0:10:25.200 --> 0:10:30.679 constituents are Korean media entertainment companies UM, like the BPS Company, 0:10:30.800 --> 0:10:33.880 Black Pink Company, and so forth. UM. The other twenty 0:10:33.880 --> 0:10:39.120 to thirty companies are UM tech infrastructure companies, companies that 0:10:39.160 --> 0:10:43.400 are comfortable to uh the Apple Music, the Spotify of Korea, 0:10:43.640 --> 0:10:48.160 so They basically provide UH the infrastructure for music and 0:10:48.280 --> 0:10:53.560 content to prosper and and be distributed. So essentially our 0:10:53.679 --> 0:11:00.280 thirty constituents cover UM music companies, UM To, drama company Niece, 0:11:00.600 --> 0:11:04.600 and movie companies that that have used UM amy winning 0:11:04.720 --> 0:11:09.679 series squid Game and UH and and and masterpiece Parasite 0:11:09.880 --> 0:11:13.760 UM which which which also won a number of hop 0:11:13.840 --> 0:11:18.040 Awords UM last year. So UM they really do cover 0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:22.880 the old breadth of of Korean content. UM. That's that's 0:11:22.920 --> 0:11:26.280 going global. It's interesting. I'm looking at the name of 0:11:26.320 --> 0:11:28.520 the fund, it's k pop and Korean Entertainment. So I 0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:31.000 guess my guess is maybe the SEC work with you 0:11:31.040 --> 0:11:32.800 to expand the name a little so it was a 0:11:32.800 --> 0:11:36.160 little more accurate because some of the companies are Korey entertainment. 0:11:36.200 --> 0:11:39.360 But to your point, I have seen squid Game and 0:11:39.400 --> 0:11:42.559 I have seen Parasite. They're both masterpieces in my opinion, 0:11:43.080 --> 0:11:46.319 and I've actually dabbled into some other South Korean stuff 0:11:46.360 --> 0:11:48.840 just because it seems to be so good. You know. 0:11:48.960 --> 0:11:51.760 We I we talked about Nirvana earlier. There was clearly 0:11:51.840 --> 0:11:55.640 something happening in Seattle when in the early nineties right 0:11:55.640 --> 0:11:59.680 there was it was an explosion of like entertainment value. 0:12:00.320 --> 0:12:03.480 It seems like Korea is in that like in that 0:12:03.600 --> 0:12:06.760 spot like where they're just something's happening there, Like why 0:12:06.880 --> 0:12:11.640 why is all this art, both music and movies and 0:12:11.800 --> 0:12:14.840 TV shows? How is it all being produced out of 0:12:14.840 --> 0:12:18.280 such a small place? Is it feeding off each other? 0:12:18.320 --> 0:12:21.079 Like is there some kind of I don't know, like 0:12:21.360 --> 0:12:23.560 a scene there. Like I'm just trying to figure this 0:12:23.559 --> 0:12:26.160 out a little bit, because you're right, um, there's definitely 0:12:26.600 --> 0:12:29.199 a lot of things going on quote in the Korean 0:12:29.280 --> 0:12:34.120 entertainment area. So this is more my personal view than 0:12:34.840 --> 0:12:39.800 um than a studied hormal response. UM. But personally I 0:12:39.840 --> 0:12:44.199 think um UM. We can look at two main factors 0:12:44.360 --> 0:12:50.920 why create entertainment is seemingly suddenly booming. Number one, Korean 0:12:51.000 --> 0:12:55.920 domestic market for music is actually not small. One would 0:12:55.920 --> 0:12:59.679 consider from a global standpoint, Korea to be a relatively 0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:04.560 small UM country that's um not generally well known globally, 0:13:05.040 --> 0:13:09.240 but it is uh even domestically without excluding all the 0:13:09.360 --> 0:13:13.200 exports um, all the k pop um sales um that 0:13:13.240 --> 0:13:16.800 are being made on Spotify, excluding all that, just just 0:13:17.320 --> 0:13:21.200 putting into perspective the domestic sales domestic market size UM 0:13:21.280 --> 0:13:24.880 for music for your ranks number six in the world. 0:13:25.360 --> 0:13:32.080 It's behind UH, the US, Japan, UM, UK, France and Germany. 0:13:32.160 --> 0:13:34.920 And then it's it's Korea. It's it's larger than China. 0:13:35.200 --> 0:13:39.040 UM to to the state, it's larger than UH, Brazil 0:13:39.200 --> 0:13:43.880 or other countries. UM. So domestically, UM Korea does have 0:13:44.760 --> 0:13:48.320 a big enough of a a local market that would 0:13:48.400 --> 0:13:52.439 be a good foundation for for a lot of content, 0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:56.520 a lot of talent to prosper. So that's number one UM. 0:13:56.559 --> 0:14:01.800 And simultaneously UM, I believe that UM Korean market, while 0:14:01.920 --> 0:14:06.480 it's quite big, it's not big enough UM. Let's say 0:14:07.080 --> 0:14:10.040 UM compared to Japan, which is number two in the 0:14:10.080 --> 0:14:16.200 world to hold local companies satisfied UM with the kind 0:14:16.200 --> 0:14:20.480 of market size they can see within the country. So basically, UM, 0:14:20.520 --> 0:14:23.760 if you were a Japanese music company, if you're a 0:14:23.960 --> 0:14:28.000 US based record label, UM, you would be happy with 0:14:28.480 --> 0:14:31.760 with taking a bigger market share in your respective markets 0:14:31.760 --> 0:14:36.840 in your respective languages. But for the top K pop 0:14:36.880 --> 0:14:40.800 companies in Korea, UM, while the market size isn't small, 0:14:40.840 --> 0:14:44.680 it's not big enough for for for these companies to 0:14:45.120 --> 0:14:50.200 to be sufficiently growing consistently. So UM these companies have 0:14:50.240 --> 0:14:55.840 been continuously looking for overseas growth, global growth, rather than 0:14:56.320 --> 0:15:00.680 UM staying within the borders and being being happy. UM. 0:15:00.800 --> 0:15:05.360 They kept on knocking doors in Japan, in Southeast Asia, UM, 0:15:05.400 --> 0:15:08.480 in in Latin America, in the US, UM and in 0:15:08.600 --> 0:15:10.560 Europe and so forth. Then they've been doing this for 0:15:11.200 --> 0:15:14.880 the last ten fifteen years. And you see the numbers 0:15:14.920 --> 0:15:18.960 that are popping up. UM. It seems like sudden um 0:15:19.000 --> 0:15:23.600 events out of nowhere, but it's an accumulated effort of 0:15:24.120 --> 0:15:28.040 time and energy that has been UH continuously skewing out 0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:31.440 of this small country in the last decade. That's a 0:15:31.440 --> 0:15:33.440 great point. And you know, Eric, when you said earlier 0:15:33.480 --> 0:15:36.760 that you've never heard of these companies, I haven't. Also 0:15:36.880 --> 0:15:39.880 in a way, I just thought they're familiar because of 0:15:39.920 --> 0:15:41.960 my friends. But then when I looked at the market cap, 0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:45.560 they're almost as big as Apple, like hi, And I'm 0:15:45.600 --> 0:15:48.480 sorry if I'm pronouncing it wrong. I think it's even bigger. 0:15:48.840 --> 0:15:51.240 Um j YP is just a million. When I say bigger, 0:15:51.280 --> 0:15:53.920 it's three billion dollars and j YP is like a 0:15:53.960 --> 0:15:56.760 billion dollars. So these are huge, And to me, it's 0:15:56.800 --> 0:16:00.080 just really reinforced that the world is so big and 0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:03.160 that sometimes UM, because I report in the US market. 0:16:03.440 --> 0:16:05.360 I just really look at the US market. But then 0:16:05.640 --> 0:16:09.239 there's just a fast world out there with huge companies 0:16:09.280 --> 0:16:14.600 with huge potential. Probably right Hid and now is UM 0:16:15.200 --> 0:16:19.480 in in its for five billion dollar range. To my knowledge, 0:16:19.480 --> 0:16:23.200 Warner Music is at around seventeen billion last year. That 0:16:23.320 --> 0:16:27.320 difference UM was much smaller when HI was up to 0:16:27.880 --> 0:16:31.960 twelve thirteen billion dollars. So these are not small companies. 0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:34.640 The market taps are comparable to some of the top 0:16:35.240 --> 0:16:39.720 music companies globally. UM. So you launched at a tough time. 0:16:40.200 --> 0:16:43.000 This has been a brutal year. The fund immediately went 0:16:43.040 --> 0:16:46.280 down UM, but South Korea is down the country as 0:16:46.280 --> 0:16:49.320 a whole, Like, you have this theme. I've seen other 0:16:49.320 --> 0:16:52.720 issuers deal with this. You have a theme, it's gonna 0:16:52.760 --> 0:16:55.080 have a little more volatile than the sort of benchmark. 0:16:55.760 --> 0:16:57.840 So E W Y would be the benchmark ticker there. 0:16:57.840 --> 0:17:00.600 That's the South Korea I SHARE's E T F UM. 0:17:00.640 --> 0:17:04.280 You know, how do you market this thing in that environment? 0:17:04.520 --> 0:17:07.920 I'm sure it's difficult. How is that going? How are 0:17:07.960 --> 0:17:11.639 you getting the story out and overcoming sort of the 0:17:11.720 --> 0:17:15.520 rougher environment for really all E T s, But especially themes. 0:17:16.320 --> 0:17:19.440 I don't think we're in the business of of timing 0:17:19.560 --> 0:17:25.040 market peaks and UM trows were truly long term believers 0:17:25.119 --> 0:17:28.920 in the prospect of Korean businesses with exposure to K 0:17:29.040 --> 0:17:33.200 pop and K entertainment growth. And these are businesses with 0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:37.080 proven and sustainable I P s and business models and 0:17:37.200 --> 0:17:42.680 our long term beneficiaries of Korean music and content UM, 0:17:42.720 --> 0:17:47.399 which is capturing UH disproportionate share of the global growth. 0:17:47.840 --> 0:17:50.440 So UM, like you mentioned, it's it's been a tough 0:17:50.520 --> 0:17:54.560 few weeks across all asset classes since K pop ETFs 0:17:54.600 --> 0:17:59.040 inception on September one, UM, but we do believe that 0:17:59.119 --> 0:18:02.679 content consumption, especially digital content consumption, which a lot of 0:18:03.119 --> 0:18:07.120 K pop or create entertainment is based on, is relatively 0:18:07.160 --> 0:18:14.520 resilient across UH difficult and and recessionary environments UM and 0:18:14.520 --> 0:18:18.400 and and and and and basically they're longer term trends. 0:18:18.560 --> 0:18:21.679 So we ultimately believe that the underlying performance of the 0:18:21.720 --> 0:18:24.720 company's in our a E t F will provide further 0:18:24.800 --> 0:18:30.760 momentum in attracting demand from from a wider global investor universe. 0:18:30.800 --> 0:18:34.600 So so we are UM doing all the interviews. UM, 0:18:34.640 --> 0:18:37.320 we are doing what we can um within this market, 0:18:37.400 --> 0:18:40.320 but in the end um I strongly believe that this 0:18:40.560 --> 0:18:43.520 is not a a one one hit wonder, It's not 0:18:43.600 --> 0:18:46.359 a it's not an event, but it's a trend that 0:18:46.400 --> 0:18:50.400 will stick. So the fundamental um growth of K pop 0:18:50.480 --> 0:18:52.879 as a as a as a phenomenon and as a 0:18:52.920 --> 0:18:56.960 trend will be the long term momentum hopefully um for 0:18:57.160 --> 0:19:00.480 for our e t F. I've noticed that mattic et 0:19:00.640 --> 0:19:03.120 s to X point earlier are really booming, but then 0:19:04.240 --> 0:19:08.879 they've become a lot narrower, I think, although more creative 0:19:09.320 --> 0:19:13.080 as time passes by. What do you make of that 0:19:13.160 --> 0:19:16.280 young one? And like, who are you targeting? I don't 0:19:16.280 --> 0:19:18.520 know to my head there it's a very specific. It's 0:19:18.520 --> 0:19:21.879 like K pop fans who believe in the firms. Is 0:19:21.880 --> 0:19:26.800 that the good question? Are you going to like advisors 0:19:26.800 --> 0:19:29.240 who manage money and you're trying to sell k pop 0:19:29.320 --> 0:19:32.000 where you're going to like k pop mega fans and 0:19:32.080 --> 0:19:37.240 explaining this is how you can invest in it? Well? Um, 0:19:37.320 --> 0:19:40.159 To be clear, we we we we We don't just 0:19:40.320 --> 0:19:43.800 believe that this will appeal only to these K pop 0:19:43.840 --> 0:19:47.639 mega fans. We also believe that there are clear investment 0:19:47.680 --> 0:19:52.760 merits and rationale for obtaining exposure to Korean media and 0:19:52.760 --> 0:19:57.520 a human industry purely from an investment perspective and and 0:19:57.920 --> 0:20:01.440 therefore ke pop etf is designed not only for global 0:20:01.480 --> 0:20:04.960 fans but also institutional and retail investors around the world. 0:20:05.000 --> 0:20:07.919 So UM we do believe that we do believe that 0:20:07.960 --> 0:20:13.280 this is an independently investment worthy thesis UM and these 0:20:13.359 --> 0:20:17.679 K pop stops from from a a long term standpoint, 0:20:17.760 --> 0:20:21.239 have been moving in such a direction. UM companies like 0:20:21.320 --> 0:20:24.359 j I p Um, which have some of the top 0:20:24.400 --> 0:20:30.320 girl groups um UM globally UM they've grown UM substantially 0:20:30.840 --> 0:20:33.639 more than thirty x in the last UM five to 0:20:33.720 --> 0:20:37.679 ten years. So these are companies that have shown continued 0:20:37.720 --> 0:20:41.840 growth UM in both their UM numbers and and their 0:20:42.000 --> 0:20:45.400 in terms of their share price. So it's an independently 0:20:45.760 --> 0:20:52.520 UH reasonable and attractive investment thesism. However, UM initially our 0:20:53.080 --> 0:20:57.399 target is more towards the K pop fans, who we 0:20:57.480 --> 0:21:01.200 believe don't just want to consume the content, but I 0:21:01.320 --> 0:21:05.119 want to own UM part of that growth. So for 0:21:05.320 --> 0:21:09.680 now we're not going to institutional investors and and pitching 0:21:09.680 --> 0:21:13.080 the idea UM. We're much more focused on getting this 0:21:13.160 --> 0:21:16.960 idea out so that people know that we exist, that 0:21:17.080 --> 0:21:20.440 there is an exposure for them, the ability to gain 0:21:20.480 --> 0:21:25.040 an exposure into into k as A as as A 0:21:25.040 --> 0:21:28.200 as a paradigm. Okay, so I want to ask about 0:21:28.359 --> 0:21:31.880 what this paradigm could kind of look like, because I mean, 0:21:32.040 --> 0:21:35.479 we talked about BTS for a second. Ridiculous numbers like 0:21:36.000 --> 0:21:39.920 basically the most popular musical group in the planet maybe 0:21:39.920 --> 0:21:42.879 the history of the planet. That's pretty good. Uh, you 0:21:42.960 --> 0:21:48.199 got Parasite, which best picture, squid Game which became just 0:21:48.280 --> 0:21:52.480 a total viral Netflix sensation. Tell me what this actually 0:21:52.520 --> 0:21:54.359 looks like in five years? Are we only going to 0:21:54.440 --> 0:21:58.760 be watching and consuming entertainment that comes from Korea? Like? 0:21:58.800 --> 0:22:04.400 How big can this get? Well, another number you would 0:22:04.400 --> 0:22:11.000 expect the top UM musician on YouTube with the most 0:22:11.040 --> 0:22:16.200 subscribers UM would be someone like Ed Sharon or Justin Bieber. 0:22:16.680 --> 0:22:20.639 But it's actually Black Pink. Now, Black Pink might not 0:22:20.880 --> 0:22:27.600 appeal to all the generations and all the population UM. 0:22:27.680 --> 0:22:31.919 It definitely targets a specific age group and and also 0:22:32.720 --> 0:22:35.120 UM at the same time, it's it's not just targeting 0:22:35.320 --> 0:22:39.520 UM English speaking UM population. It's it's a much more 0:22:40.440 --> 0:22:44.960 globally dispersed fan base. UM. So even if black Pink 0:22:45.160 --> 0:22:49.879 is not known widely UM within certain groups UM in 0:22:49.920 --> 0:22:53.719 the US, they're very much widely known UM in the 0:22:53.800 --> 0:22:58.520 same age group globally. So that adds up to the 0:22:58.680 --> 0:23:02.440 eighty two point two mile and subscribers on YouTube, which 0:23:02.520 --> 0:23:06.919 is the single highest number UM out of all the 0:23:07.000 --> 0:23:12.080 YouTube musicians there are on Earth and Twits, Twitter Twits 0:23:12.119 --> 0:23:15.320 related to K pop, they were five point one million 0:23:15.720 --> 0:23:20.679 back in. Now it's seven point five billion UM in. 0:23:21.800 --> 0:23:25.800 So the growth isn't isn't fathomable, it's it's difficult to 0:23:25.840 --> 0:23:29.960 calculate from five five million to seven point by built billion. 0:23:30.040 --> 0:23:34.000 It's it's it's uh UM. It's it's growth that's comparable 0:23:34.080 --> 0:23:38.680 to UM. Like what was mentioned video games UM or 0:23:38.840 --> 0:23:42.960 or in some sense Crypto and in the future UM 0:23:43.119 --> 0:23:46.480 Squid game. They're producing their second season, it's in it's 0:23:46.480 --> 0:23:50.840 in development. And we see new TV series that are 0:23:50.880 --> 0:23:56.160 produced in Korea and UM whose language is actually Korean 0:23:56.560 --> 0:24:01.600 and they they they take UM top ten most watched 0:24:01.960 --> 0:24:05.639 UM English TV series, both in US and globally on 0:24:05.720 --> 0:24:10.600 Netflix nowadays daily. So so we believe that we're we're 0:24:10.680 --> 0:24:14.800 just at the starting point UM where it's getting noticed 0:24:15.240 --> 0:24:17.680 like back in the days when video games were being 0:24:17.680 --> 0:24:21.439 noticed as as more than a subculture, right before it 0:24:21.520 --> 0:24:26.840 became a mainstream theme. I think Korean content is passing 0:24:27.040 --> 0:24:31.680 by that point of history where it's it's going past 0:24:32.000 --> 0:24:35.359 UM a subculture, UM into a genre of its own 0:24:35.640 --> 0:24:40.600 that appeals UM, not just English using population, but but Earth. 0:24:47.080 --> 0:24:51.720 I want to ask for a sleeper recommendation. So we've 0:24:51.720 --> 0:24:56.360 talked about some real popular ones that have massive global followings. 0:24:57.000 --> 0:25:00.600 What's the one that's like the secret handshake that that 0:25:00.680 --> 0:25:02.960 I should really know about that's gonna make me seem 0:25:03.080 --> 0:25:08.800 super super cool when I tell my kids, UM, there's 0:25:08.840 --> 0:25:12.440 a up and coming new girl group that was produced 0:25:12.480 --> 0:25:17.080 by the same record label that produced BTS. That girl 0:25:17.119 --> 0:25:21.840 group's name is uh New Genes, so jeans they're new 0:25:22.160 --> 0:25:26.359